Why did Mark Rosewater lie to us?

>>48690107
Which lie are you referring to?

>>48692621
Lotus Cobra is often considered the poster child for the claim that mythics should be splashy and interesting rather than just tournament staples being a lie

>>48690107
They would not be ONLY tournament staples.
Getting playable mithics is throwing Spikes a bone. You cannot reserve a rarity only to Timmies and Jhonnies.

>>48692621
The one where they said yawgmoth was dead

>>48693264
Why can't you, exactly?

You should have a better reason than "because I don't like it."

>>48693264
It being a tournament staple by itself isn't a problem. It being mythic solely because of tournament playability and nothing else is the problem.

The card doesn't have a cool, unique or huge effect, nor is card picturing an important part of plane or its history, you know what makes a card actually feel mythic. It's just a random snake with different colors.

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>>48690107
What lie? The one where he's a good designer?

I hate that the value of every new set is almost entirely in a couple chase mythics and the entire rest of the set is basically junk

I really hope this trend doesn't continue

>>48697818

I wonder what would happen if a set came out and all the best cards were common/uncommon.

>>48698951
Pauper players would lose their shit, that's what. In a good way.

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>>48694873
I disagree. That effect is very strong, even in non-competitive Magic. It's subdued, but it's a very powerful card, and the image reflects that. Lotuses are a symbol of divine power, and this serpent is meant to appear as a divine creature.

That is also ignoring the weight the word lotus carries within the context of MtG.

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>>48698951
It'd be widely considered a joke and "bad set" even though if the same cards were printed at mythic rare they would be extremely expensive.

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>>48697818
Remember when the majority of sets weren't junk?

Oh that's right, that's always been the case.

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>>48699188
That's playable. Meanwhile this is also rare.

>>48694259
It's bad business to cut out a portion of your fanbase.
Magic is first and foremost a business.

>>48697818
>I hate that the value of every new set is almost entirely in a couple chase mythics and the entire rest of the set is basically junk
been what a year since Khans?
Even when you cut out Treasure Cruise, there the non-mythic delve cards that saw play in modern.
Monastery Swiftspear wasn't a mythic.
The charms.

And this is going by the extremely unrealistic standard of "if it doesn't see competitive modern and eternal formats it's junk"

>>48694873
It's a reference to the infamous Black Lotus.

Even nerfed into Lotus Cobra form it's still a damn good card.

>>48699606
It's also funny he's said this during Eldritch Moon. Spell Queller is just a rare. Thalia is a rare. And Eldritch Evolution is a rare.

>>48690107
>Trusting a jew

>>48699709
Call me when bolt is at common again.

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>>48700059
Not only will bolt never be common again, it will never be printed again. The next time you see a card for R that deals 3 damage to a target is when it also deals 3 damage to you at mythic; compared to pic related, that would be good enough to ban from standard.

>>48700365
this should have at least been 4, a non tibal goblin grenade shouldnt be a bolt.

>>48690107
>Why did a semite lie to us?!
>HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?!?!
Because you ignore over 200 years of history.
Kike hate goyim and can only lie.

>>48699246
>le reserve list

>>48694873
I agree with your point generally, but Wizards has actually been doing a pretty good job in regards to mythics lately under your criteria.

Most of the tournament staple mythics are also plot important legendaries (the planeswalkers, Emrakul, Avacyn). Really the only aggressive failure is Grim Flayer which feels like a mythic just because he's strong.

Kozilek's Return is also kinda iffy.

>>48694873
>It's just a random snake with different colors.
Damn pretty though. Which has nothing to do with the argument I just wanted to make that clear.

Is this just a Johnny card or is it really good?

I'm trying to build a list for it in Pauper, and I'll bring this up in the Pauper thread, but it feels to me that it could potentially be a card in eternal formats.
In testing it tends to be blown out by bolt, but I might just be using it wrong.
Any ideas about this common?

>>48698951

You mean like Odyssey?

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>>48690107
The statement was that "Mythic rares are not a list of tournament playables"

This does not mean that tournament playables can't be mythic, in fact, they can make it so that ALL tournament playables are mythic so as long as they print crap mythics alng with them to maintain the truthfulness of the statement.

When the first mythics arrived, the average cmc was about 6.4. In today's standard with (in cmc):
2 at 1
5 at 2
21 at 4
18 at 5
18 at 6
7 at 7
0 at 8
3 at 9
3 at 10
1 at 13

the average cmc is roughly 4.94 not including cost reduction shenanigans like Emrakul and Emerge.

No one likes opening a pack and getting a crap rare, and it's even more disappointing when it's a mythic that you can't even cast at 7+ mana.

Curving out at 4 is good for gameplay IF the designers want that pace for bomb-dropping for their game, but it's typically bad news for anyone that wants to play on a budget but still be tourney viable.

>>48692693

lotus cobra ended up being a staple in standard at the time because of fetchlands and what not

but in terms of eternal formats, lotus cobra is more of a splashy interesting card than a staple, it doesnt just go in every deck because it dies to bolt and not every deck even has expensive enough cards to use all that mana

also the card obviously has mythic rare flavor, its a fuckin legendary mystical mana snake

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>>48698951
The second combo winter happened. The five colored artifact lands were common. Skullclamp was uncommon. Aether Vial was uncommon. Disciple of the Vault was common. Almost every broken Raffinity card was common or uncommon, with the titular Ravager being an exception.

>>48700609
>Most of the tournament staple mythics are also plot important legendaries
Which still doesn't excuse bullshit like Kalitas. At any other rarity, this one would be 4BB or higher. (Hell, the previous Kalitas, which is arguably worse than this one in play, cost 5BB.) But because it's mythic, they've lowered the mana cost and made it hyper-efficient.

Mythics should be splashy, not just extremely good. (I'm still angry over Deathmist Raptor being so much more powerful/efficient than every other morph simply because it's mythic.)

>>48690107
The nose knows.

>>48700390
Goblin Grenade is a sorcery. Reckless Abandon is what you describe.

>>48701676
So at what rarity should cards pushed for eternal play be? We want cards that aren't garbage to exist, but I am not playing a limited environment where Kalitas is a rare.

You can either say, fuck limited or you can say, fuck having powerful cards. Or you can just push for the world's most insane power creep.

>>48704776
"Eternal Play" should never be a concern.

making cards for Modern and beyond is retarded, they'll get whatever is incidentally good for them and thats it.

>>48705000
That seems like an opinion that would be remarkably unpopular. You are just asking for weak cards.

So many people at my shop bitch constantly about how new MTG has no even remotely powerful cards and even standard players seem to complain about weak sets constantly.

>>48705000
>>48704776
so now you're complaining that no good cards for standard, exist outside of mythics?
Because Recruiter was one set ago, and is an uncommon.

>>48705014
making cards for eternal formats, especially legacy/vintange is stupid.

they can be powerful cards, but that doesn't mean they get to replace a 1 to 4 of in a vintage deck.

when you 'sign up' to play a format where you get access to nearly every card ever made, you waive away the right to complain about not getting new shit.

>>48699246
>implying making mythics into Timmy and Johnny cards means that spikes get nothing

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>>48693264
Then why all commons are shit for spikes maro?

>>48705623
Didn't a common get banned only two blocks back?

>>48701676
The problem was not the rarity, but the sinergy of filling your deck with artifacts that almost all are colorless and feed each other at super low value

>>48705643
Yeah, they do something good and inmeditaly ban it, the same happened with mental misstep. R&D is affraid of bleu

>>48705691
so you clearly have no understanding of what happened with mental misstep.
And have no idea what you're talking about in terms of magic in general

>>48701676
>The second combo winter happened
So one of the worst times for magic and something to be avoided in the future.

>>48705781
>Mental misstep is printed to counter the free turn 1 wins, like storm
>It does its job amazingly
>Its banned for doing what it was intended to do

>They print a restrictive sorcery speed echo of ancestral recall that is even bad to run 4 copies off
>A deck like delver finally gets to tier 1
>Better shut off that unfun decks

>>48705832
no, they published a damn article about it dumbass.
It was intended to give non-blue decks a bump by giving them access to counters against the powerful one drops in legacy.
What it did was make blue decks even more dominant, because it gave them even more free counterspells, and lead to misstepping misstep chains.

>treasure cruise.
try not being so aggressively wrong about things.

>>48705691
>Have cards that are good
>Ban them because Jund breaks them to make faster LotV's

Ban LotV I don't care, anything for BBE or DRS to come back

>>48705889
>Missteping misstep chains
as if FoW chains didn't existed
>Treasure cruise is badwrongfun
If you don't tap creatures sideway to win, then is bad, isn it?

>>48705946
>as if FoW chains didn't existed
it requires 2 cards for each, so it wasn't as bad, and having access version of those chains is not an improvement.

>dig and cruise were fine, people didn't even run 4 in a deck
spouting memes combined with clearly untrue statements does not support your arguments.

>>48705832
Free turn 1 Wins? Are you joking? Have you played Legacy?

>>48698951
Alara Reborn was considered a failure.
Dark Ascencion was also another failure.
Gatecrash had its best cards at uncommon rarity (other than fecthlands) and it's also considered another failure.

That's what happens.

>>48701676
Mirrodin would have been a total clusterfuck regardless of the rarity of those cards. All it meant is that entering the clusterfuck was cheaper. The mere existence of those cards in any quantity was toxic.

>>48697818
I hate to be a "muh edh" fag, but Eldritch Moon had some good commons/uncommons. Geist of the Lonely Moore and that 1G 0/3 bitch who fishes a basic when she dies are the first that come to mind.

>>48700669
He is the prettiest snek.

I've always wanted one since around RoE, when I first saw him, just because he's a nice looking snake, in a gorgeous locale. The art is just phenomenal.

>>48694873
For what it's worth, there was a huge argument over if it should be mythic or not in R&D.
Maro thought it shouldn't, but lost

>>48709564
It was still one of the most interesting block ever.

>>48707202
Oops
Belcher
Dredge
Storm

>>48712349
Decks that are so fragile and stupid that they rarely see play and even more rarely go off turn 1?

A single Force will cost you the game and post sideboard it is even worse.

>>48692693
He said that not all mythics should be tournament staples. He never said that none of them were going to be. Much the same way he never said that all mythics would be big and splashy.

>>48700365
Honestly, I think we will see Lightning Bolt be in Standard again. It won't be common because of balancing for limited, but I can conceive of a theoretical Standard environment where Bolt is legal, you just need to balance it by having stuff that can survive it that is at/above the 4-5 CMC range.

>>48712349
>Dredge
>Free turn one kill
You're full of shit and should kill yourself.

Why don't they just make good but narrow spells again so decks don't need to run 4 ofs then make creatures weaker so the playables can be printed at common/uncommon?

Oh yeah because Wizards has no intention of making this game good again.

>>48700365
Eh. Bolt is pushing the power level and warps Standard a great deal where creatures need to either survive Bolt or provide value regardless, but it's not unprintable, it's just something we won't see often, much like mana elves that cost 1, or Mana Leak.

>>48712794
>Why don't they just make good but narrow spells again
But they do. One of the most recent changes was that no Wrath effects that cost less than five and no removal spells that cost less than three willl be unconditional. The entire point of this was that people should be able to build around popular threats and removal spells.

>>48712529
So now you just ignore that there are turn 1 wins in legacy

>>48712623
And your just fucking retarded

>>48713195
How so? We are talking Legacy Dredge, not Vintage Dredge. Assuming your opponent doesn't stop you in any way, you still have to set up your win-con. You can get consistent turn 2 kills, but not turn 1.

>>48713268
No one was talking about vintage dredge. Hell I'm able to kill on turn 1 with my shitty manaless dredge deck

>>48713322
>T1
>Manaless
Better post proof, because that's a lie if I ever heard one. The earlier you'll pull off is turn 2.

>>48690107
Green is the color of money

>>48713347
>Opening hand Chancellor of the forge, 2 basking root walls, phantasmagorian, dread return, balustrade spy, cabal therapy. Reveal the Chancellor to get a gobbo

>Opponent is playing storm and therapies my therapy (I didn't say I could do it myself)

>My first time turn, draw another rootwalla. Flashback therapy by the gobbo discard phantasmagorian, madness the rootwallas, dread return etc...

This has happened multiple times, usually against those fragile combo decks I mentioned above trying to actively protect their own combo

>>48713708
>Opponent is playing storm and therapies my therapy (I didn't say I could do it myself)
> (I didn't say I could do it myself)
You cheeky fucker.

>>48713775
Cheeky as fuck, but seriously real dredge is consistently able to combo off on turn 1 because of faithless looting.

>>48690107
>T1 dork
>T2 Cobra, play a fetch, crack it, have 3 mana
Literally lets you play 5 mana of shit on turn 2. Whose actual retarded idea was this?

>>48712587
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/the-changing-definition-of-mythic-rare

>>48713195
As someone who plays Oops, and I confidently say that mental misstep does practically nothing vs my deck.

And blue is already dominant enough in legacy, it doesn't need more counter magic when a large portion of the field already runs blue with some other combination of colors.

>>48713965
That article makes a lot of assumptions. In the last part he even quotes the part of Mark's article that people so often misread.
>Wizards stated in 2008 that the Mythic rarity was not to read like "a list of each set's most powerful, tournament-playable cards."
And clearly misreads it himself. It does not say that mythics aren't allowed to be powerful tournament-playable cards.

>>48714173
I never said mistep did things, only that turn 1 wins do exist