No messiahs or empire building prophets

>>48685527
Literally nothing changes, religions aren't the problem, people are. Zealots will find something to cling to and go all out on it, doesn't actually matter what it is because they're crazy.

>>48685527
Buddha unveils his final form and turns the earth into a giant sea of tang and incense.

>>48685527
> OP is never forced to go to Sunday school
> looses his animosity toword religion
> this thread is never created
> paradox

>>48685527
It depends on how time travel is treated and the science behind it. How can he go back in time and change history if he did got back in time and there are no messiahs?
And what prevents other messianic figures to arise? How he would assure the spreading of other cults and how he would ensure that they changed over time as all religions do, creating then more zealots?

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This is bae

>>48685527
We aren't even sure there was a physical, historical Jesus. It is possible, but it's just as possible he's a combination of different prophets trying to break from the judaism of their time. First text to actually mention Jesus as we know is from around 200 years after him. But that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't exist, but also this is cabal evidence of his existence. So imagine how hard it would be to track the guy/guys that started christianity.

Anyway, he'd be going back and forth to the past and future a LOT. People need religion, in many cases, and they don't need much to create one. Without the appeal of the current religions, the ones that failed in the past, would may be sucessful, new ones would come into being, or old ones that predate those would become bigger.

It not JUST about fearing death and inexistence, although that's a big part of Religion. Is about organizing a set of moral values that are more or less the same across a larger comunity so that you can rely on those for social interaction. And yes, that's important in pre-modern states.Religion can be used for warmonging but it's also a unifying force. Erasing it from the board from the beginning would make us a less coehesive society. Only erasing the abhramaic ones though? No idea. Likely to make Zoroastrian the thing for the west and middle east.

Can't imagine what a Zoroastrian middle age would look like. Probably weird.

>>48685527

Society never develops.

That sense of awe and religious wonder that people can experience is a legitimate and reproducible biological phenomenon that played a part in the formation of human society. If you keep hunting down messianic cults and great forms of worship you will, eventually, have to come to the conclusion that the only way to stop large groups of people from worshipping a common ideal is by eliminating the element that drives humans to worship.

So you'd need a different factor to force humans to develop at speed. Otherwise humanity, assuming it progresses at all, may very well be millennia behind where we are today.

>>48685729
>We aren't even sure there was a physical, historical Jesus.

>What is the Roman Census.

>>48685527
So basically, a fanatical zealot of atheism?

kys

>>48685527
Less scientific progress.

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>prevents the birth of jesus
>implying that some fedora would manage to go against the will of God made manifest

>>48685527
Either the Roman pantheon or Jewish religion would take the place that Christianity and Islam held in the middle east and Southern Europe.

Europe would at the very least look a lot different since Christianity spreading there had a huge influence on the cultures. Actually, Scandinavia would be even bigger home of equality and social justice since the Viking laws were pretty fair towards women as well (although slavery might have existed for a longer time until technology would have made slavery unnecessarily expensive.)

A lot of culture and science would be lost. You can talk shit about Christianity all you want, but they were basically the sole keepers of what knowledge survived the fall of Rome in the West.

>>48685980
Also, a lot of christian monks discovered cool shit, including amazing beer recipies.

>>48685653
Well if he's persistent enough they might start to worship the time traveling future man that pops up randomly to kill people. That might be an interesting religion

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>>48685527

>>48686027
>Our hypothetical time-fedora becomes what he hated most
How poetic. I like this.

>>48686046
Happened to the Emperor

>>48685980
Wouldn't the Jews also have preserved the same knowledge?

>>48685746
>society never develops
>what is "The Roman Empire"

>>48686158
something that eventually collapsed

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>>48685959
The viking sjw is just a meme, the only difference was that the Norse didn't complain about their situation as much and that individuals actually stood up for themselves.
>And as for your "equality"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OfoZR8aZt4&list=PLPPa8aTP2j2MPyEzYwqmCOMHLi1bmu95e
People still conform to gender roles in modern Scandinavia, they have perfectly equal opportunities, yet there is a clear trend between gender and profession in Scandinavian countries.
This has nothing to do with the legal system of the vikings, which was completely replaced by the Christian school of law. It has more to do with the culture and attitudes of Scandinavian society.
Blaming religion as a whole for everything is pointless, seeing as literally every aspect of our western culture is affected by Christianity. If you targeted the Catholic institution then you would have a better basis for an argument, but remember that it was a far more political than religious entity up until quite recent history.

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>>48686232
oh and speaking of christian influences on law, this article writes a lot of interesting stuff about it, really worth a look if you're interested in law or need inspiration for how religion could effect the legal system of whatever campaign you're running

>>48685527
>>how would such a world look like?
Iron Age untill the Klazoñan incursion of 3100. Then empty.

>>48685729
>>Antihistorical idiocy
By your terms we aren't sure there was a historical, physical Napoleon. His history is archetypal,just the usual betrayed god-king figure.

>>48686012
>>Also a lot of Christian monk discovered cool shit included inventing the university system, the scientific method and genetics.
>>Also a lot of cool beer recipies
Completed that for you.

>>48686153
Questionable. A lack of Christianity wouldn't have kept the revolts in Judea and the eventually Jewish diaspora from happening. Part of the strength of post western Roman Christianity is that it had a fairly centralised power structure in the Vatican.

Really, if my understanding of post Roman western Europe is correct, a big part of the Frankish dominance that eventually led to Charlemagne consolidating power was papal approval of the Franks to rule. It's hard to say how the post Roman west might have shaken out with the papacy.

>>48685527
He started a bit late didn't he if he choosing Jesus and Mohammed ... just saying, might need to go back further and slay all those fat old ladies and stop the rise of sjw in general, we ask know it started with those rock goddess figures.

>>48685527
Read up on the monomyth.

Also, given the fact that there is a monomyth this individual would probably
a) be very very busy
b) accidentally cement him or herself as a monomythical being

>>48687085

This was my first thought. Some kind of fuckery leads to your image being plastered across every civilization.

>>48686393
>>48685762
Alright so...You both know of an early source to the existence of Jesus than I do. Great. Could you please link me to it or some article discussing it?

>I HATE FANATICAL ZEALOTS
>I MUST DESTROY THEIR FIGUREHEAD DESPITE ALL THE GOOD THAT CAME FROM IT

I see a suicidal time traveler once he has to actually talk to one of the peaceful therapist types. Because you are the zealots John.

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My question to all these "if you could go back in time and change..." threads is: why?

Why change history that would probably bring about worse situations?

Great, you saved the Franz Ferdinand. You destroyed the spanish boats trying to reach america and killed cortes. you stopped pearl harbour. You Killed hitler.

So What?

You save franz Ferdinand, ww1 still happens, perhaps later, in the 20's. Making it potentially even more of a massacre.

The dutch get to america first the dutch do the same thing as Cortes and kill all Aztecs only more successfully


You kill hitler, only to have Himmler take over and somehow succeed why hitler didnt...

Do you see where im going with this? the ramifications are large yet its very possible the knock on effects of your 'good' outcome create something even worse down the line.

Sure I live in one timeline ergo only know of my realities version of history, though i think ours is fine...its exciting i guess.

(most) of my Alt-dimension timeline me's would agree to my sentiment regardless. There timelines are #1, yours are weird and stupid.

>>48687404
>Go back in time and kill Pol Pot
>some other shithead comes up
>on alternate /tg/ there's a thread

"What if someone went back in time and killed the guy who killed Pol Pot"

>>48685527
Well for starters, Europe doesn't get the kick-start it did in our timeline.

Without a central religion to rally around, the Eastern Roman Empire inevitably falls to the Sassanids and much of the eastern world is dominated by Zoroastrian faith. The Western Roman Empire falls as in our timeline and has no pope to curtail the rampage of Atilla, or to convert and unite the various barbarian tribes that occupy Gaul, Britannia, Iberia, Germania and Scandinavia under a common culture. Monasteries that in our timeline preserved countless Roman and Greek works never appear and so priceless knowledge of the past is lost forever.

The modern world looks very different, dominated mostly by a unified Middle East under Sassanian rule, separated from China by the warring princedoms of India. The United States is never founded and the Americas are discovered much later, as without European stability and rivalry fueling the search for new lands and new opportunities for wealth, there is less drive to go west, despite a few Viking settlements that rarely prospered.

Yeah, turns out that while fanatics and assholes use religion as an excuse, Christianity has, through most of history, HELPED Europe.

>>48685527
>A guy with a hatred for fanatical zealots

Goes on a campaign of mass murder. Also prevents history that causes billions of people to never have been born.

Will he also kill Marx? Marx's followers managed to kill ten times as many people as Mohammed and Jesus put together. And they each had thousands of years of head start.

The thing is, mass murder happens. Fanaticism happens. These things happen, and they'll always find a pretext to do these things under. It might be religion, politics, assumptions of cultural superiority.

You live in a very rare moment of peace, prosperity, liberty, and justice. Vanishingly rare in history, rare even in this era. So you assume that it's the natural state of things, and if it weren't for a few Really Bad Guys that everything would be great. The truth is, the natural state of humanity is violence, poverty, oppression, and exploitation. Only by constant vigilance and sacrifice do we hold that state at bay.

One of the pillars that keeps people from descending into total savagery is religion. It's sometimes a pretext for doing harm, but it also does considerable good.

It's ironic that people are so comfortable and insulated that inevitably a generation arises that overthrows their world, trading away the minor injustices that remain for the greater injustices of a failed state or dictatorship.

So if your character somehow did manage to get his wish (probably impossible no matter how many people he kills), he'd only succeed in cementing in place a uniform, ignorant, grey despotism.

Your character also prevents his own existence the first time he changes history, of course.

>>48686158
>>48686198
And that stagnated technological growth more than many realise.

>>48687404
I'd rather convince Franz ' s dad to reorganise the empire in to a federation, accept Italy ' s offer to purchase some of their Italian majority clay and give Bosnia to Serbia instead of annexing it. I mean things might still go to shit but it seems like a better shot.

>>48685527
Jesus is most likely a crossover of several guys of his time. So more or less a myth.

With neither of the two big jehova fanclubs manichaeism, Mithra worship and sol in victuals stuff would dominate I think. Further up north an organized slawic religion seems possible.
Maybe some more germanic, celtic and tengri stuff, too.
Historically they were/are quite flexible.

Araby: dunno, one of the big anti persian leaders is gone, could go every way.

Levante: Jews were the Taliban of their time, nothing changes.

India and further East change little until the Mongols come knocking, expect mongolian fans of aura-mazda, I think.

The Americas and Africa depend on much more than religion, can't even guess.

>>48685762
Did not exist actually.

>>48688170
People's view of how and when technology has developed in history is....dim at best.

>>48686393
The only source also claims for people raising from the dead, walking over water, surviving inside a whale/fish for days, crushing walls by tooting, giants, supernatural beings.
Let's just say the sigurd saga had less fantasy elements, and sigurds existence is also rather shaky.

>>48688266

IIRC the Romans did do a Census (because taxes), but the census as described in the Bible is total horseshit.

Unless that guy was saying that there's a Roman census that had a guy named Jesus/Yeshua/w/e on the rolls, in which case he's probably right.

>>48687466
Anon the zoroastrian faith was/ is centralized.
Also it's offshot manichaeism was far more successful in converting guys.
Zoroastrianism had always been iranian plateau and a bit of central asia only.
Not even the sassanid capital was mostly zoroastrian.

>>48687466
Stopping attila had more to do with aetius rallying the german tribes, he was liked enough. The Pope was a hinderance at best, most germans fighting attila were aran christians, so heretics in the eyes of the Pope, an vice versa.

>>48688438
*arians

>>48688340
Aye, I agree.
Also Jesse and analogues were not exactly rare names among jews.

>>48688438
Granted, Atilla's eventual defeat was brought about by the actions of Aetius, but it was the Pope who managed to prevent the sacking of Rome... Then again, given how many times the eternal city had been sacked by that point, I guess it honestly wouldn't have mattered that much...

>>48688404
Pity really. I quite like the Zoroastrian tenets. Still, it doesn't change the fact that the Persian empire would be dominant in the region, after the lack of Christianity weakens the religious and therefore cultural power of the Byzantine Emperor. Polytheistic religions are more used to the idea of just bowing to new, clearly more powerful gods, while Christianity thrives by opposing such.

There is two possibilities.
1. By eliminating the need for your future self to go back in time you create a time paradox. Either the universe collapses, you cease to exist, or some other change occurs which causes you to never obtain the means, motive, or opportunity to travel back in time. Congratulations, you have changed nothing AT BEST.
2. Someone remarkably similar to Jesus and/or Muhammad pops up around the same time and begins teaching in remarkably similar ways. You successfully prove the existence of God (or at least SOMETHING with a strong desire to have these two people exist) and are a murderer for nothing.

>>48687116
Not one of those guys, but try the gospels.

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>>48689085
>using religious scripture as a primary source

>>48687116
Contemporary jews didn't argue jesus didn't exist AFAIK, they just argued that he wasn't the messiah. There's a few references to him as well from a few decades after his death, which is still more than we have on people like Alexander the Great or a lot of roman emperors

>>48685746
Op here

I think you missed some stuff in the first post.

There'd still be religions.

Hed only be getting rid of the "any noon believers will suffer eternally/kill the non-believer" types, and any religion that is the cause of large scale wars such as Islamic and Christian expansionism and the like.

>>48685827
>implying atheism was mentioned anywhere in the op
>illiteracy
Impressive stuff, that.

>>48686027
Ha!

What would the tenets be like?

Would his own religion become one of the ones he deems too dangerous the world would be better off without, and why?

>>48687182
A lot of bad came from it too, though. Genocides, purges, religious empires wiping out peoples and cultures.

>>48687404
This is why he
>a. Goes back to the present and catches up on history to see if things are better or worse, and where, and
>b. Goes back to prevent the formation of any other religion/ideology that commits genocide and wipes cultures off of the earth.

Sure , he'd have to make more than a couple trips. Maybe 30-50 trips.

>>48688086
>Mass murder
I suppose thats one way to look at it.

Alternately he finds said historical figure's grandmother around the time their mother would have been conceived, and abducts her for a month or two, then releases her.

>would be kill Marx?
Be might see fit to prevent his birth, if Marx still happened after he got rid of jesus and muhammad, its possible, yeah.

>>48688086
>preventing his own existence.
I'm clearly assuming some sort of branching timeliness because paradox is a bitch.

>>48685672
Buddha was shinji all along?

>>48685527
Different traditions and prayers, different ceremonies, erasing the abrahamics wouldn't change much because other religious leaders would have filled their niches sometime or other. Humans are prone to religiosity, its a good tool (perhaps not the best, but still workable) for managing large populations.

>>48687466
>Yeah, turns out that while fanatics and assholes use religion as an excuse, Christianity has, through most of history, HELPED Europe.
Except they don't like that "white people" got a leg-up.

>>48685527

>What are the Jews

Seriously, are people forgetting that they're still there?