Players and Homebrewing

These sorts of players are overlooking the bigger picture. The very first page of most DMG books for systems state on that the books are meant only to be guidelines and that nothing in them is set in stone. Anything is subject to change to fit the DMs feel for a story and establish a truly unique setting.

Your players can't get mad at you for "not following the books" when the very first page states the books encourage DMs to make their own changes to begin with. In a sense, a good DM is following the spirit of the book by expanding upon what is initially written into them. So your players are little more than hypocrites if they scold you for this.

>"hey guys, I'm gonna slap a bunch of fantasy races together with seemingly random RL cultures! wow such worldbuilding, very creative. wait til you hear this one: my wood elves...they...wait for it...they live in locales that have no woods! now let me consult the random numbers generator to see what the drow are like, hm it seems they're orthodox christians"
maybe they just think your ideas are retarded. I sure do

>>48657225
Yeah I can say for sure that it might be the personality of some of my players, they seem to see things as black and white and one in particular is very inflexible with what they think.

I remember one time they argued that rogues were strictly masters of their crafts and know all the mystical tricks in the world, while I was trying to argue that a rogue could ALSO be defined as someone who's a very dirty, dexterous fighter. Someone else stepped in and took my side but they still didn't agree. I might need better players.

>>48657104
>We wuz elves n shiet
Why do you butcher germanic and celtic mythology like this?

>>48657312

Maybe everything things you're a faggot, I sure do.

>>48657312
I didn't say it was revolutionary world building. But I am saying it's a better formula than than coming up with a 1, 2, 3, 4, campaign story and think of generic kingdom names that decided to be at war.

If you're the dungeon master it's your world. It doesn't make two shits difference what the players think. If they don't like it, they can run their own fucking campaign or play at a different table. Never got why players felt the need to nit pick. Most of them never run any games themselves and shit themselves inside out trying to think of something that's not a pre-planned module when asked to.

My advice is fuck them. Don't be a dick to them in game about it, but address it out of character. If you dislike my concepts, there's the door. If you dislike hearing this, let me show you my favorite finger, and be on my way.

>>48657359
What separates Tolkien's works from this butchery, is that Tolkien's works draw on a long tradition, and mix faerie tale in with reality, where the elves were actually a race similar to men.

Taking Tolkien's work and jumbling it up doesn't add any actual depth. On the contrary, it takes away from it. IF you feel that people are too derivative of Tolkien in general and it needs a change, remember that in any story, the primary conflicts are human conflicts. The conflict should be something that people can relate to: temptation, adversity, loss of a friend, etc. and no matter what the setting is, the story should primarily revolve around these things. If you cannot captivate interest in the story, then you solution (inserting random foreign cultures) is only a very thin layer of paint that will chip off very quickly.

^ I agree with this guy. It's nice to add bits of splash here and there and alter things a bit. But overall story and plot points come first.

>>48657400
>>48657438

I do go beyond mashing a culture with a race, I try to think of what the homebrew's society would be like, what most citizens see merit in, how they'd treat outsiders, what their clothes look like from the local wildlife. In the case of the Zulu wood elves I start off with that to give a quick visualization to the player and then build in from that as they play.

And the conflicts I like to include involve culture clashing, the main characters liking to defy tradition.

Would it be presenting it the way I do that raises eyebrows before the games even start?

>>48657492
>Would it be presenting it the way I do that raises eyebrows before the games even start?
Probably what is driving people away is the multiculturalism fad in the media. Comic books, movies, and other niche hobbies are being reworked by these out-of-touch executives and heavily politicized. If you're throwing in asian and african themes into what people expect to be a western european setting, then it'll come across as something similar. It may be entirely unintentional, but that is probably how it comes across.

i h8 drk elfs cuz they blk as shit sun. fuk dem niggas

>>48657549
>and other niche hobbies are being reworked by these
That does make a lot of sense, I don't keep up with a lot of multimedia and start my research with older books and novels.

My plan was next to use 5e as a template for an Iron Age China campaign. The weaponry, clothing and geography will be a lot like China, and the enemies are like the Classic Chinese, while the players will come from a more barbarian culture. What suggestions do you have for the presentation?

>>48657549 >>48657492

That's true. All the politically correct nonsense out there today promoting multiculturalism really makes me a lot more sensitive to being annoyed by it. So I can see how it might spur on a bit of a dis-likable feeling from certain players. With cultural conflict so high in the real world right now, some players don't want more of that in their game.

>>48657559
shut up you racist prick.

>>48657549

>"cultures other than pure white european ones?! Not in my fantasy setting!"

Whatever /pol/ we get it you hate everyone

>>48657622
>My plan was next to use 5e as a template for an Iron Age China campaign. The weaponry, clothing and geography will be a lot like China, and the enemies are like the Classic Chinese, while the players will come from a more barbarian culture. What suggestions do you have for the presentation?
It seems like if it's a Chinese themed setting, then it will be fine as long as it's well-researched and well-based in Chinese culture. Bleeding, say, European influences into it will make it seem schizophrenic and disjointed.

I'm not a big expert on Chinese history, but I know that each region of China had a different culture, and many times the empire collapsed into separate states, yet there was always the prevailing notion that China was at heart a single empire, destined to be reunited, and fulfill a divine right to rule over all other countries (which were always considered "barbarians" no matter how civilized they were). The barbarian groups the players come from could easily be the Manchu or the Mongols, but perhaps also the Siamese, or Japanese or Islanders.

>>48657969
>I'm not a big expert on Chinese history, but I know that each region of China had a different culture
In fact, as is common with many early civilizations, you could even say that every village had a unique culture.

For instance, in one particular village by the river, the men would row their boats downstream, and the women who wanted to woo them would stand out by the river and sing to them, and the men would sing back if they wanted to marry.

>>48657779
Not that anon, but what he said was

>If you're throwing in asian and african themes into what people expect to be a western european setting...

Using interesting locales or drawing on foreign folklore often makes for great gameplay. Shattering all sense of immersion by dropping "Ok these elves are basically polynesians" between not!France and not!Germany and expecting to use 'Its fantasy!' as the final handwave does not.

Once a world stops following its internal logic immersion and believability burn.

>>48657104
>they suggest (even as a DM of 8 years) that going against the books is extremely unprofessional
But you're not a professional DM. Are you? Is their such a thing?

>>48657324
D&D did a real solid job of it already.

>>48657969
>>48657996
The barbarians were going to be in an environment which was Tibet but whey were going to have a shamanistic culture that taps into old magic. Someone did also pitch having the Mongol area being where the orcs camp.

And yeah tons of little niche cultures every 100 miles you go in that area.

>>48658061
I will nitpick at your statement a bit. Fantasy by definition is about projection, exploration and getting to create your own thing. To a lot of people only sticking to Celtic / Germanic lore is extremely limiting. I do understand that some people highly prefer being in games that are very close to the source materials, but I don't see the reasoning behind leaving out Pagan lore for an example. or having the European travelers go to a middle eastern area.

>>48658116
I'm a DM trying to make fun and surprises for players! That's a skill but I cant say someone can be professional at that.

>>48658061
So long as I make the setting not as stripped and pandering Sword Art Online, it's still fantasy.

>>48658061

If the game invovles traveling around the world the world isn't just some fucking celtic forest where pure white european elves and humans are the only thing that exist. If that's how you want to run your games then be my guest but like

>>48658143

said the tolkien thing gets boring after the first few go arounds but I generally blame this more on the players who can't imagin anything other then european style fantasy from a system like D&D which really is just a kitchen sink setting save for the very specific settings made for it.

>>48658143
Maybe I should clarify. It's not that I think people should stick to just generic Medieval settings, or avoid using interesting cultures and mythologies. Creating your own setting is one of things I really enjoy as a GM, and thats exactly why I object to the idea of throwing new cultural stuff in just for the sake of it.

If you are going to try and 'spice up' a setting by adding new twists on tropes or inventing a strange society, attention should be paid to things like
>How do they interact with their neighbours?
>How has this altered the nature of both societies?
>What are the origins of their customs and beliefs?
Just throwing [Random culture No677] at [Fantasy race No23] is not only kind of lazy but jarring for the players.

Settings based on unfamiliar or unconventional cultures and societies can be the some of the most compelling to play, but only if said society is actually thought out and appropriate. Recycling modern cultures in an attempt to seem fresh runs thin very quick.

>>48658297
Yeah I get how I can come off as "Hooo boy today I mixed Incas with Teiflings!" type of world building person, but I say a pre-existing culture to give a quick reference then build in.

I do put more thought into the settings I make, think of history, traditions, pass times, marriage traditions, whatever comes up that'll be relevant to the players. Now I'm more so asking what's the best way to present these to the more unimaginative players.

>>48658275
See my clarification >>48658297
If the scenario is travelling around the world then awesome, it makes perfect sense to have a grand variety of cultures. Dropping them down where they make no narrative sense is not so awesome.

>>48658274
I'm sorry, I don't follow.

>>48658351
Ignore that I understand what you were saying from your clarification.

>>48658379
Pt2)

I grew up with Elderscrolls though which on appearance, the orcs are mongols, the khajiit are gypsies, the imperials are romans ect. So it's how I'm use to presenting the appearances of my setting.

>>48658349
Oh OP, I wasn't railing on you specifically. Its true that a basis in reality makes it easy for players to get a grip at the start (You don't want to drop them into bizzaro world without knowing whats up and down) and with a little bit of work like you say it's suprising how quickly you can wander into some interesting worldbuilding.

I just wanted to point out that that its so often done as a lazy shoehorn of variety, and that it takes more than a simple reversal to make something enduringly compelling.

>>48658409
What would you suggest for appearing less like I'm just rolling dice to figure out a setting?