Warmachine/Hordes General - Gencon Day 2 Edition

Sword Knights must be so depressed that Stormblades exist.

>>48644734
Why?

Storm Knights are a military arm, Sword Knights are a knighly order.

If anything, they likely look down on them.

>>48644902
Storm Knights are actual knights recruited from the various Cygnar orders. Our at least it used to be, with all the wars Cygnar has had to lower their recruiting standards

So how are we liking mk3 so far?

File: 1468723164714.gif (627KB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

627KB, 480x270px

>>48645785
It's alright

File: nemo3pic.jpg (506KB, 695x900px) Image search: [Google]

506KB, 695x900px

>>48645785
I'm liking it so far

>>48645785
Some things are good, focus vs fury feels better, warjacks feel much better, some of the worst stuff of Mk2 is gone.

Some stuff is irksome though. Balance at the moment doesn't bother me, so long as the worst offenders get fixed. But renaming spells that do the same thing based on if they're Warmachine or Hordes just serves to complicate things, rather than make it easier.

And some choices are kind of baffling.

>>48645925
Absylonia 1 got iron aggression except renamed. I am okay with that one.

>>48645785
I'm digging it. Might be my love for the Mauler and Ragnor clouding my vision. Hopefully the tort lists don't ruin and they continue to balance things out until Khador and cygnar come down a bit and cryx and skorne perk up

>>48646074
Theme list*

>>48646074
I expect Theme lists to fuck things up pretty bad. Especially if you already ran jackspam.

The command books are gonna have battlegroup centered themes. If you were afraid of jackspam before, it will only get worse.

>>48645955
I don't mind them getting the spells and stuff, just the renaming is annoying. You have two spells that do the same thing with different names

>>48646213
Iron Aggression would be a bad spell name for a battlegroup only spell. Only 3 legion warbeasts use metal weapons or have metal on them.

>>48644734
Sword Knights are one of those useless things that refuse to go away, kind of like the entire Idrian race except for Amon.

>>48646398
I want them to be good I really do. I think they look cool. I like their rules besides the victim stats.

>>48646253
So use a more neutral name.

I just dislike having to remember a bunch of spells twice.

>>48646757
or you could just not be retarded and know specifics.

>>48646253
In Circle the spell is named Wild Aggression, so probably just use that.

>>48646925
There's enough shit in this game to remember without having to remember it twice.

And their stated goal was to make the game simpler, but adding more spell names to be remembered seems entirely counter to that.

>>48647045
You might want to reevaluate how you intake information because I don't and know a lot of people that don't have this problem. Most of the time I just hear this complaint as simply something to complain about. It's more on you than it is the game.

>>48647003
Yeah, Absylonia got Wild Aggression. I was saying that I wouldn't want a spell named iron Aggression in Legion since the name would not fit.

>>48647131
There's somewhere in the ballpark of 100 casters in this game, not to say anything about warbeasts, warjacks, units, and solos.

With that much stuff to process, having duplicate stuff with different names is just stupid for processing info.

>>48647483
Do you have other examples besides iron/wild aggression?

>>48647483
Theres still going to be over 100 rules and stats to remember. It doesn't change much. It's just a hurdle you yourself will have to learn to get over. What I do is just focus on the quick summary of what something does and not get hung up on names.

>>48647630
Warpath/Road to War.

>dat Elara

Hmmm. She's going to make Stormfalls ridiculously accurate.

File: Elara of House Mar.jpg (423KB, 1380x860px) Image search: [Google]

423KB, 1380x860px

>>48647736
She's inspired me to start a Retribution force and start collecting boner-bots.

File: Magnus2_75 (5).png (180KB, 409x623px) Image search: [Google]

180KB, 409x623px

conflictchamber.com updated with Kingmaker's Army, if anyone cares.

I do, because it took too damn long to implement *well*.

But future theme lists shouldn't be annoying to input.

>>48648094
Awesome, you're doing great work anon.

One thing I will say is that when I try and use the app on my phone, I can't copy or save the images using the buttons.

I don't know how much of a pain in the ass that is to implement, or if it's because of my phone(using an oldschool iphone 3S, if that matters)

>>48645785

Punch-drunk Skorning.

So in a sense, kind of the same as it ever was. Still have yet to identify all these things hitting me though, and how they do it. Give it time.

>what smashes through a defense
>what pries apart a defense
>what kills you if you tighten up
>what kills you unless you tighten up
>where are these combined
>what can you afford to lose early
>what are they going to try to kill early

...Same as it ever was.

>>48645875
>Master Shake plays Warmachine.

>>48646398
Idrians are... bad? Are we playing the same edition?

>>48648176
It's probably your phone. As far as I know, save as image only works on Firefox and Chrome (including Chrome for Android).

You may want to try Chrome if your iPhone can run it.

Unfortunately, I don't own a working iOS or OSX device to test stuff on their browsers.

>>48644734, >>48644902>>48644937
Stormblades are definitely more favored, but are also a strongly more militaristic order these days, thightly tied to the Cygnaran Army.
Sword Knights are knightly order on their own, and not only serve the Army but older purposes such as guardians of the road and small folk against beasts and such.

If anything I imagine the Sword Knights kind of take their shit more seriously since if the war ends the Stormblades can relax but they'll still be taking up their ancient duties out of noblesse oblige and such.

So my local store is finally doing the Full Steam event.

I'm debating on going for the "Blood and Oil" achievement and building a battlegroup only list, because fuck it.

How terrible of an idea is doing this, with this list? Other casters I have are both Sorschas, Butcher 1&3, Strakhov, and Vlad 1&2.

It's also pretty much every warjack I own, All that's left is the Mad Dog and Devestator are magnetized for all options in their respective kits, Ruin, Decimator, and Destroyer.

Khador Army - 74 / 75 points

(Karchev 1) Karchev the Terrible [+30]
- Behemoth [24]
- Devastator [14]
- Grolar [18]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Spriggan [19]
- Mad Dog [7]
- Marauder [10]

File: stormgunner.png (880KB, 1040x740px) Image search: [Google]

880KB, 1040x740px

>>48648893
How does recruitment for Storm Knights work anyway?

I thought they all had to be nobles since they're knights.

>>48651137
If you make the grade to become a storm knight you get elevated to knighthood.

I'm not sure why anons are hating on sword knights, that defensive line stacks really nicely with def buffs like with haley3. Ran a unit with arcane shield on them a couple of days ago, turns out that Def and Arm 17 is really good at attrition once the smokewall drops. Sure theyre not storm lances but with that much of a difference in points youd better hope not too.

>>48647630
Escort/ Battle host, Watcher/ Guardian Beast.

>>48647630
Watcher/Guardian Beast, Battle Host/Escort, Reconstruct/Respawn, Aura of Power/Arcane Might, Dark Path/Unseen Path are the ones I've spotted, but I haven't straight up gone through every deck to check yet.

>>48646430
They could be really good with Haley3. Behin the Cloud Wall they wont get shot and once they're in melee they're DEF17.

>>48651438
It's the same for every spell that mentions warjack/warbeast. Seems pretty consistent? Well then look at "Reload". Of course there's a bloody exception.

>>48651379
You're right; Precursor knights are the real scrubs.

>>48651564
I like them with Constance. Decent since she can't buff her infantry anyway.

>>48651605
That's like saying shit is a nice side dish for manure.

>>48651546
Sure, but applying a universal variant of the spell can't be that hard. It's muck simpler for a spell to say "Warjack/Warbeast" than for there to be two variants of the exact same spell.

>>48651605
>>48651564

Also may work with Jakes 2.

On feat turn have em pop mini feat so they are speed 6, pow 12, range 2, weapon masters with electro leap.

>>48651379
Trenchers+Sword Knights with Jakes 2

Escort+sprint+positive charge+3 focus on a speed 6 reach jack

Have it fucking murder a heavy, then sprint over to another hard target. Sword Knights charge it and enjoy positive charge and their flank. On feat turn the Sword knights can really pile in on the jack too.

File: precursor-knights.jpg (131KB, 800x341px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 800x341px

Morrow decrees that we must suck ass!

>>48651794

Trenchers with Stryker3 hit much harder. Auto hitting PS14 weaponmasters on feat, PS14 any other turn that they charge with Fury. the +2 to hit rarely matters against the hardest targets, and stryker giving a turn of auto hitting weaponmasters outclasses positive charge too, while also bringing escort and iron aggression

Is there a summary of fluff changes anywhere after the timeskip?

I assumed Flashpoint was supposed to be one but it seems focussed on Cygnar.

What happened with Ret and Skorne? Did Barnabas become a god? Do we have to wait till next years books to find out?

>>48653257
Ret realized their true strength in a dumb Dragonball Z training montage and then obliterated the Skorne empire.

>>48653257
What I need to know is the fate of Mordikaar. I've heard that PP have stated that he's dead since he wound up in the Wurm's stomach after a hilarious run in with portals, but the Skorne legend of the Reborn is looming over all of this. They thought it was Vinter, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Mordikaar sprang back to life as the Skorne Jesus. I mean he'd hardly be an amazing frontline warrior, but a powerful mortitheurge is fine too. I just refuse to believe that PP would Chekov's Gun that hard.

>>48653286
Even Rocky had a montage! (Montage!)

>>48651438
Alright, so there's actually a ton and anon wasn't just being an autist. They prob could have gotten away with most of these without a name change by just changing the text to warjack/warbeast. Some of them (iron/wild aggression comes to mind) just needed a universal spell name.

>>48653388
There's also Conferred Rage and Alpha Hunter, though those aren't spells. Same issue though.

Fortify and Bracer as well.

Is PP doing any gencon spoilers? Haven't heard anything on that front...

>>48655399
The juniors grew up, that's about it

>>48655399
Ive seen a new haley1 sculpt pop up on my Facebook feed, but besides that and the new Hordes Warcasters that's about it. Nothing about the silly Halloweentown faction.

Where do I find the rules for Retribution Force Fields in mk3?

>>48655695
p. 59

>>48655437
>>48655511

Are they doing a presentation? I mean they used to do that sort of thing in the past...

>>48655733
Thank you.

Hey, how do the rules for artillery work? Specifically "man-sized". Can you draw LOS over their base as though they were small? Or is it just for height? Cab you trample over them or even just move through them as though they were small? How about reach, can you reach over them to melee something?

>>48655511
>halloweentown faction

wut?

>>48657745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e15h-fR1rGg

>>48657801
What the fuck was that? That's supposed to be a faction reveal? Scarecrow drawings? That shit looks like a sophomore in highschool made it.

>>48657863
>That shit looks like a sophomore in highschool made it.
Yeah, how could something like that ever fit in with the sophisticated aesthetics of Pirate Dragon Robot Zombie or Two Headed Cyborg Pig Centaur?

>>48657863
I think I saw some Dreggs from IKRPG too.

So, I think we can all agree warcaster/warlock is completely busted in IKRPG, while jack marshals are fucking useless. So how about these house rules?

>Marshals now work like MkIII
>Being a warnoun eats up both careers
>Steamjacks can improve without being in a battlegroup

>>48658016
the damage reduction rules in NQ 66 also are great for jacks. jacks are way too fragile compared to beasts in IKRPG.

>>48657801
Still makes me laugh how fucking low the production budget was on that.

>>48653257
I believe there should be at least few sentences about each faction in big rulebooks. Anyone bought those?

>>48658016
Why make them two careers? I honestly don't see the point there.

Can someone help me grasp why the Spriggan is not very good in MKIII?

>>48659243
well, most of the reasons you want a spriggan are also most of the reasons you want Torch. A cheaper character heavy jack.

>>48658016
Those are shitty houserules. The Warjack one is fine but the others are dumb.
>Warlock/Warcaster are self-balanced by their need for Bonds to use their special benefits and the fact that they are basically forced to put a lot of advancement into ARC to stay relevant.
>Warcasters have to work to get Warjacks unless they pair with Field Mechanic.
>Drives are already very good in IKRPG as they are only a quick action to use.
If your group is having issues matching or bettering a Warcaster than they are either scrubs or you are handing them too much nice shit too easy.

>>48661222
Warlocks are busted beyond reason dude.

File: whatthefuckhuh.gif (293KB, 176x144px) Image search: [Google]

293KB, 176x144px

>>48657801
...So... it's not Zu?

Some kind of... spooky cult?

>>48661525
Looks like an old Highschool friend of mine before he gained a lotta weight.

I wish this general was more active. I've had the WarmaHordes itch for a couple days and the official forums aren't doing anything for me.

>pony avatars
>" grr. this is mah mod voice"
>"did you hear about this thing that's been out for a couple months" threads

>>48658006
That's definitely a Dregg, yeah.
No idea what that faction could be, dreggs are basically the kobolds of the setting with even less intelligence.

>>48661643
I am wondering how they will do dreggs. They get better at fighting when hurt, but don't seem like they would be more than single wound infantry.

>>48658016
The only Warcaster build that is even remotely broken is the imitation Stryker2 build, because bonded greatswords are nuts.

Warjacks are a waste of time for Warcasters to even bother running because they're exactly as durable and killy as their tabletop selves, but everything else in the universe is way more durably AND killy than it would be on the tabletop.

Warlocks are absolutely nothing special unless the GM just litters the countryside with heavy warbeasts ready to be tamed by the first murderhobo that wanders along.

File: cygnar2.jpg (520KB, 1434x739px) Image search: [Google]

520KB, 1434x739px

So what colour schemes have people used on their Cygnar models?

I was thinking of using green, gold and red, but painting Cygnar anything but blue seems wrong.

>>48661724
The weird evil nursery rhyme and some of the creatures kinda remind me of Grymkin in as general sense, which so far are basically unused in the wargame which is at this point the primary IP that Privateer Press uses.

File: warcaster 16.png (2MB, 975x1263px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 975x1263px

Man, with this lady in town, Ret tournament lineups are going to look like harem anime.

>Issyria
>Helynna
>Kaelyssa
>Elara
>and Ossyan

Hellmouths and Typhon (with assistance from JVM) wins Iron Gauntlet.

>>48662000
Trips confirm.

>>48647780
House Mar have they been mentioned in the fluff before?

>>48661925
My Cygnar is predominantly grey (p3 greatcoat grey) and dark blue, with gunmetal and reddish gold for the metals.

File: kaelyssa_night_s_whisper_by_annacory-d8onmk8.jpg (549KB, 1024x1448px) Image search: [Google]

549KB, 1024x1448px

>>48662000
Everblight merely adopted the waifus.

File: Elara7.png (186KB, 714x847px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 714x847px

>>48662330
No. I took the name and scheme from the Jak and Daxter series and colored her model renders in photoshop.

>>48659243
Ruin and Torch being cheaper

>>48662000
I fair to see how this is a problem, Round ear.

>>48662647
ooo... you don't see much art of here around...

File: ha ha oh Zaal.jpg (102KB, 300x269px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 300x269px

>>48663271
>implying round ears

I for one welcome our waifu overlords.

Conflictanon, I have a bug to report. When changing a warjack from the caster to a journeyman, the points value becomes [undefined], swapping it back to the caster doesn't fix it.

>>48663315

Hey, Zaal went down like champ; busting tohksaa skulls with his old-man cane, shredding souls with his eye-beams while shouting at the mage-hunters to get off his lawn, and unleashing an angry minor god as a last F U as he rage-quit life.

>and seriously humans, in that fight you want to be rooting for the snaggle-toothed hairless painmonger knife-ears, not the nice-smelling waifu knife-ears. They won't sex you up, they'll just kill you for their god and laugh about it.

File: tumblr_n5y1hokTYm1ql901uo1_1280.png (120KB, 504x1224px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 504x1224px

>>48664469
>Killing you for their gods
>Not killing their gods for themselves

ISHYGGDT

>>48661557
Id like more list discussion but things tend to devolve into theory only

Itd be cool if we had people talking about things like what they worry about from other factions

>>48665060
Not the anon you replied to, but I'm new here, and the content does move pretty slow.
I've also probably watched like every mkiii battle report there is, but batreps are either really good and awesome with awesome production quality (wargaminggirl, miniwargaming) or its just 2 guys arguing about rules for 2h30 and you can hardly hear them and then every 15 minutes the AC kicks on and completely drowns out the audio.

I just wanna play games, or at least watch peeps do it.

Do Iron Fang Kovnik solos benefit from Shieldwall when Base2Base with an Iron Fang Pikemen?

>>48665406
No.

>>48665406
Speaking of Iron Fangs, man the Great Burrs osing weapon master triggers me. I wish they would change it back.

>>48665699
They have flank, which is conditional WM

File: braylenwanderhearttrollkinoutlaw_web.jpg (251KB, 900x630px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 900x630px

>>48662647
Trollbloods have better waifus.

>>48665752
True but the issues that bother me are that:
>Flank makes them more similar to the Legends of Halaak than they already are
>The kovniks have weapon master suggesting they aren't as skilled as the kovnik
>Even Kozlov kept it - so all Iron Fangs with axes have weapon master except the great bears

>>48665839
Game balance trumps everything as far as rules go. The fact that they don't have weapon master while the others do have no bearing on their relative skill.

>>48665805
Only with a facemask.

>>48665839
Dawnlord Vyros has Flank Faction Warjack instead of Weapon Master.

Just a thing they do so the models don't fuck over the game.

File: Elara9[1].png (568KB, 790x1023px) Image search: [Google]

568KB, 790x1023px

>>48665805
Of all the factions Ret has the best waifus.

MHA, Kae is bae, Elara has pigtails, Issyria has dat stern beauty, Helynna and Eiryss for people who dig the bald, Lys healer can dance, Lanyssa is practically a ret solo with how often she's taken and she's a hottie, and lastly Ravyn who is OK if you like basic bitches.

>>48666245
Convergence has the amazons covered though.

>>48666416
Aurora is OK, but Kae is Bae.

>>48665107

Any videos of those two that you'd recommend?

I'm not especially thirsty for battle reps, but I would be curious what would be considered high production values.

>>48665060

I'm worried that Legion had zero presence in that last Polish tourney.

>>48665060
Been having some trouble with the Sunburst Crew. Long range and everything gets set on fire. So far my only best has been to arc obliterations at em, but that only works so well.

>>48666634
Yeah that was odd since there's a good few lists in legion that look legit

>>48666805

I'm wondering if it has something to do with either waiting for the Hellmouth to drop or waiting for the meta to settle.

Still, you'd think at least one guy would have tried something. For all of the Skorne tears I've seen even they had a pretty good turout.

best cygnar drops into retribution? i have haley2 in my competitive pairing that im intending to take to steamrollers, but i need a good ret drop against a lot of hard matchups.

Vyros2 i can take with haley, but im not sure how to answer issyria, kaelyssa, ossyan etc

>>48666953
try caine2

File: 1445459540597.jpg (20KB, 220x315px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 220x315px

>>48666245
Eiryss is married to her job, there's no love to be had from elf Solid Snake.

Issyria knows your game before you open your mouth and isn't having none of that fraternization with subordinates business.

Helynna is devoted to the well-being of her people and presumably her squeeze Ossyan. Probably a bad idea to try to make a cuck of a man who can read the future and freeze you in time.

Ravyn is too busy recruiting angry disaffected Iosans and perfecting gunstaffkata, senpai will never notice you.

Lanyssa is a prodigal beauty queen out for vengeance in the name of her corrupted people, so be ready to fight a lot of betentacled dragonspawn. Can you restore that smile?

Kaelyssa is that cute tomboy you know who is amiable but always focused on something/someone else. Gotta find a way to hold her attention.

Elara is damaged goods indoctrinated orphan who's as likely to put a scythe in your throat as she is to give you the time of day, but god damn she's got that fine everything. Invite to dinner, don't ask about her parents, make sure your defensive buffs are upkept. Shark cage optional.

File: 1335846345448.jpg (143KB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

143KB, 900x900px

>>48667681
Don't forget Dahlia Hallyr, though she'd probably rather fuck her snek than some filthy human.

File: tumblr_inline_nmk1zgkaKe1t2nn1o_500.jpg (46KB, 500x336px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 500x336px

>>48667720
>halfway through turning on your charms, she toots on her flute
>you wake up halfway down Skarath's digestive tract

>>48667773
Or with Skarath halfway down yours ify'knowhat'mmsayins

File: 1405789978353.png (89KB, 790x501px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 790x501px

>>48667849
>tfw you'll never toot Skarath's flutes

Yo 4chan whats your opinion on Woldstalkers?

So did I miss a piece of fluff, or do we not know what happened to Sloan after Vengeance?

>>48662795
>Those dick sucking lips

>>48668243
Yeah, after Vengeance she ambushed Kraye and stole his spell.

>>48661724
I'm pretty sure those aren't dreggs,it's a grymkin faction but no dreggs yet

File: aiyana_by_cwalton73.jpg (224KB, 1000x773px) Image search: [Google]

224KB, 1000x773px

>>48664469
Please, Iosans are into the human D. We already have two character units that are all about this.

>>48663657
Fixed now; thanks for the report.

>>48667865
>fantasized sexual encounter with hot chick who owns giant snake
>anon feels immediate sadness that he will never be able to fuck snake

/tg/ in a nutshell

PP has to get these Tiered Lists out ASAP. My local community has lost 4 people in the last month. They don't feel compelled to spend time trying to squeeze out the last bit of nuance from this edition. :/

>>48666245
Idk, Cryx has the sexiest liches

If I'm looking to play trollbloods, should I consider picking up the 2 player battle box for Hordes or just stick with the regular battle box and buy my fennblades separately?

>>48670777
If you've got someone to go in halfsies on it, the 2 player box is a better deal. If you don't have anyone who wants to start skorne and you don't think you can sell the other half another way, just get them separately.

>>48669271
which is the other?

>>48671305
Linus and Edrea, the minions unit. Though if you read the book they're in, Linus is all about the ogrun chick.

File: Khador jacks.jpg (626KB, 1104x882px) Image search: [Google]

626KB, 1104x882px

$34.99
coming soon™

>>48674122
You meant the thing that's already out and literally sitting on a shelf in my lgs right now?

>>48674150
I fucked up. PP has Mad Dog and Rager in the Khador gallery but still has the old Berserker and they didn't advertise them in New/Upcoming Releases.

>>48674122
I'm getting 3. At last Khador has Light Jacks.

>>48674565

More like they have T-54's.

I've never played a miniatures war game IRL. I played one game of this on VASSAL at least three years ago, and I've played 40k a few times with a friend who was a former 40k player that had become sick of how expensive it was. I recall liking this way more, but would like to play it some more online before spending money.

In the meantime:
>Do you all have a steam group or discord channel or anything?
>Any kind of resource for help picking a faction?

>>48675047
I don't think there's a steam group, but I'm not one for those things so I can't say for certain.

As for faction choice, it comes down to what you, in general, want to do on the table. Warcaster choice is a much bigger factor in the nature of your army, so choice in faction is more about general trends(shoot more, melee more, durable, fragile, etc, etc) rather than super specific tactics.

>>48675143
I like the idea of shooting a lot, and emphasizing debuffs if those are a thing in WarmaHordes.

Any suggestions on where to start looking?

>>48675182
Shooting is something that's come more to the fore in Mk3.

In general, the shooting factions are Cyngar and Ret, though I think now just about every faction but Cryx on the warmachine side can put one or more really good shooting lists on the table right now.

On the Hordes end, I know Circle picked up at least one really good shooting unit, and Legion still has a lot of their shooting tools, though they lost some of their most insane elements to it.

What kind of debuffs? Cryx is the traditional dark magic style of debuffing, with lots of spells that screw with enemy infantry, while Menoth is all about the denial stuff, with lots of ways of preventing the enemy from being able to do shit.

Hordes side, I think Circle still has the most debuffs, though Skorne picked up a lot as well.

Let's see how long it takes people to tell me I'm a shithead for even bringing up Skorne to a new player

>>48675319
Thanks. I'm thinking brief but devastating debuffs. Less "your unit is slightly less awesome for the rest of the game" and more "your unit can barely do shit for a turn or two." Again, if that's a thing.

>that spoiler
What makes it bad to bring it up to beginners?

Also, thanks for being so helpful. I mostly hang out in the board game threads and in the OSR general.

>>48666623
Just check them out on youtube.
War gamer girl has the highest production value, probably, but the most glossed over activations. MWG feels like watching an actual game in fast-forward with lots of commentary.

>>48675372
It kind of was in Mk2, they're done a lot to prevent that sort of thing from being possible in Mk2.

It used to absolutely be a thing, with some casters able to neuter an entire enemy army for a turn(which often won them the game). The worst example was arguably Denny2, who could often win games without making a single roll.

Debuffs now aren't so powerful, though still pretty good. A big Cryx list in Mk2 was to use Denny1, who could lower enemy armor by a shitload, and combine that with a lot of merc shooting to take advantage of those powerful debuffs. I don't know if the list is still workable in Mk3, but it might be something to look into.

Skorne was a traditional lower tier faction in Mk2, with a lot of issues and gaps in their ability to deal with other factions Mk3 doesn't seem to have done a lot to change that, while nerfing a what strengths they had in Mk2. I think some of it comes down to figuring out their new options, but a lot of it seems to do with the fact that the way the devs want people to play Skorne simply isn't a way to win competitive games.

However, a lot of people either overstate their problems and tend to tell everyone that the faction is straight up unplayable, which is false. There's no denying that Skorne has some issues in high level play, but there's so much distance between that play and where you're at that it doesn't mean anything.

Like, if you're talking about trying to get super competitive in the game, then yea, I'd steer away from Skorne unless you want to rock the underdog. But if you're just looking to roll dice and enjoy yourself, then there's nothing wrong with them.

File: Za-Warudo.jpg (159KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 1920x1080px

>>48675372
There's always Major Victoria "how about your dudes just take half a turn this round" Haley from Cygnar if you're feeling like an ass.

Otherwise, knockdown is a decent way to keep targets from doing things - though at that point you should probably just be finishing off the downed victim.

>>48674122
>coming soon
>local guy already has 12 to run endless jack spam

>>48674122
You kidding? I already got a kit from my LGS that is notoriously slow at getting shit in.

>>48675872
>local guy already has 12 to run endless jack spam
Amateur. Karchev can run 15 Mad Dogs.
That ends up being 465 HP worth of jacks.

>>48676082

Sure, if you want to go around something that's ARM 18 and gets hit on better-than-average infantry dice a warjack.

>>48675477
I dont like how she shoots it. Its hard to get a sense of where anything is because she ops not to do a birds eye view

I have a friend over who got a CRYX battlebox and my Mk3 cards aren't here yet. Is there somewhere i can find the new cards?

>>48676611
At the end of each round she does an above tabletop wide shot. I don't like hers as much as MWG because she really rips through turns.

>>48676999
If you have an android device:
http://charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk

Otherwise you might be boned.
Or I might upload the cards for the models you need. List em.

>>48677473
I have an android, thanks man!

>>48677073
MWG's actual games are absolute fucking shit though as of late. Two ex-MWG dudes at Gaming with the Cooler and Guerilla Miniature Games have teamed up as of late to put out reps that are similar in production value but by guys who appear to actually give a fuck about giving games worth watching. They play so much other shit though so again you get content very slowly. Ash can also be pretty grating sometimes compared to MWG's Quirk, who ironically is the least Quirky guy I've ever seen from the MWG roster, past or present.

You can also make a drinking game out of how many times the Cooler says "cranks it".

File: ZIPZAPCAT.png (167KB, 409x581px) Image search: [Google]

167KB, 409x581px

Can I get some C&C on this Threemo list? Obvious faults and omissions?

>>48675519

Oh, I can say something bad about my faction from *either* values system.

Skorne is about getting hit and then hitting back.

In high end play, this means impicitly built in to your rules is the other guy is getting his plan off. You don't want that if there is a goal to work towards (i.e. scenario).

Casual play, it means before the match really gets going you'll want to size up what's coming at you. That isn't a casual body of knowledge, and if you can't pull it off you're liable to lose to a peer. Losing isn't fun, particularly when you figure out it isn't because you're making more mistakes than the other guy, the developers really are short-changing your faction as part of some greater plan.

...Skorne players also tend to develop a kind of religious panarioa towards PP after a while...

>>48678052
Oh yea, problem with the counterpunch style of play is that it's incredibly difficult to balance well, and very easy to make too strong.

The fact that they keep pushing it(and then claiming that they can't think of anything else for Skorne to do, never mind the fact that they're both in charge and all the alternate stuff that's in their fluff). Is the big problem.

>>48676082

Mad Dogs are cool for what they are, but 12 of em wont win you a game. They're only PS 14 and get shit on by real heavies and had hitting infantry.

You take a 1-2 on a Khador Caster who runs lots of jacks since they can trample 9 inches with boosted attack rolls. This gives you come nice infantry killing ability.

>>48677815
That's... pretty standard.

I'd put in Reinholdt instead of the Squire (Nemo3 has one of the best guns in the game, and Reinholdt lets him shoot it twice), and I'd fit Laddermore in there somewhere, though.

So under what circumstances do I want Invictors over Sentinels?

Ossyan?

They seem ok with Helynna from my playing in the JML since the Gorgon and Manticore slow down the enemy enough for a good 2 turns of shots before melee begins.

>>48678891
Never they do different things. General rule from Mk2 that carries over to Mk3:

>Pick atleast one of
Houseguard Rifleman + Thane
Dawnguard Invictors + UA
MHSF + UA
Stormfall Archers
>Pick atleast one of
MHI + Eiryss3
Houseguard Halberdiers + UA + Thane
Dawnguard Sentinels + UA
House Ellowuyr Swordsmen

Sentinels and Invictors aren't really comparable. Its more about whether you want a shooting unit or a melee unit and tailoring to which of each category you want.

>>48675319

If I were bringing up Skorne to a new player, I'd tell him to buy infantry. You need a margin, and infantry don't hurt as much to lose. Hell, I'd tell him to play one of the Zaals- they just don't *care* that half their list got wrek'd (in fact, it's useful to them). It's expensive and it goes against every piece of newb advice I've seen but it's the only thing I could tell an incipient skorne player and not feel dirty.

Morghoul and the Makedas are for when you can make your models *dance*. Raseth takes skill. The Zaals will take a hit and not even notice.

>>48679339
If I were meeting a new player I'd hope they like Ret, Cygnar, Khador, or Circle aesthetics.

>>48676584
>>48678734
You don't use them to kill shit, you use them to plug up your opponent. Claim the zone while they're busy trying to kill them all.

Granted this isn't a competitive list, it's a list to make your opponent go "are you fucking kidding me?"

>>48679407
I dunno, 9 inch tramples with boosted mat 5 attacks and pow 10s kills a lot of infantry.

File: 1442036354417.png (142KB, 299x368px) Image search: [Google]

142KB, 299x368px

>>48679401
>get into WMH because a friend offers me a couple Ret guys on the cheap and I can't get enough of angry elfs with anime-esque aesthetics
>a month later Mk3 drops
>suddenly Ret is "god tier" and the local playerbase spike from 5 to 12
>even the local wargaming Christguy is building them up because he "admires Garryth's faith"

I'm really not sure how to feel about this.

My current JML list is
Helynna
-Sylys
-Gorgon
-Chimera
-Griffon
-Manticore
Mechanic
Mechanic
MHA
MHA
Magister
Invictors
-UA
-1 Souless

It's been working ok and for the 65 point up I'm thinking Sphinx+Mechanic. Lacking a second Heavy is something I've felt in a lot of matches in terms of piece trading and armor cracking. The league limits optimal battle groups, but I think a Sphinx would probably work for this.

One of my current strategies is forcing the fight to be on my terms with the Gorgon gun and manticore covering fire to slow down priority models. The Sphinx can help that by upping the Magisters range to 13 and I can push back or drag forward a jack for punishment.

>>48679910
Meanwhile I am celebrating becoming one of the two legion players when previously we had eight of them.

>>48677073
Basically what>>48677799 said. If i want 'quality' bat raps I usually watch Advanced Manuvers. Not perfect, but imo the least objectionable

>>48676999

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE?usp=drive_web

>>48679910
>even the local wargaming Christguy is building them up because he "admires Garryth's faith"

This sounds fucking amazing. I have to know more.

Also don't sweat it, a lot of those guys are fair weather gamers who will just as easily hop onto khador or cygnar as soon as someone with a reputation wins a major tournament with them (Khador just obliterated Gen Con in tourney standings). Also you can always hold it over their heads that they are band wagon hoppers. There's nothing these types of people hate more than being accused for what they are. Like the Christguy

>"I like Garryth because I admire his faith"

Sure thing bud.

File: 13900191_1167097519977564_8501440195670344107_n.jpg (48KB, 528x960px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 528x960px

Finished Una. Already I can tell that the epic lesser warlocks will look way better than the warcasters. I don't know what it is but they were all either boring or downright awful.

How noob friendly is the Iron Kingdoms RPG?

>>48680337
Any links to the tournament lists for gencon?

>>48680453
>Elara
>Boring

She's waifu tier m8.

Jakes has amazing sculpt detail and such, but her pose is average.

Aiakos is boring as fuck

Tristan looks like a tiny Kreoss with an okish pose.

Khador Man... looks too much like Irusk. Also has a shit pose.

>>48680498
I think its pretty noob friendly. Super noob friendly if you already know how to play warmachine/hordes.

New players may want advice on initial career/archetype choices and stat allocations. i have seen feat points be underspent by new players too. You get a feat point back for every kill, every crit (you can crit skill rolls) and for stuff the GM feels is worthy. This means that combat focused characters earn skill points about as fast as they spend them.

>>48680560
I don't know how they can give Malakov such amazing art and such a shitty, shitty pose.

He also wins the award for "Feat name that has nothing to do with what it does."

>>48680498
The system is easy to learn.

The lore is textbooks, so ease them into that.

>>48680575
Neat. Thanks.

>>48679462
Until you run into another jackspam list, and realize your entire army has about the same damage output as two units of trenchers.

6 mad dogs + 5 juggernauts, though, has promise.

>>48680560

All of the juniors have amazing art and design, but I can't say a single sculpt is very interesting(yes even Elara, waifufags).

Elara is definitely the best of the bunch though. Jakes has a pretty great quality but she looks almost exactly like her junior model down to the exact same fucking pose.

I feel bad for Khador players, Malakov easily has the most flavour of them all and they got shat on with the sculpt pose and rules.

>He also wins the award for "Feat name that has nothing to do with what it does."
>http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/poisonpill.asp

Makes sense to me.

File: elara.jpg (87KB, 520x635px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 520x635px

>>48680643
His fiction has him manipulating investments too.

I respectfully disagree on your perspective of Elara's model. I think the model looks pretty good in terms of posing.

>>48680716
>I respectfully disagree on your perspective of Elara's model.


Well that's just fine, and I respect your opinion.

>>48680643
>He also wins the award for "Feat name that has nothing to do with what it does."
>http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/poisonpill.asp
Yeah. His feat lets him give you a bad deal. He can put his battlegroup in danger zones, then have them walk away after only taking a hit. He can have his jack charge a heavy and either kill it and run from its retaliation, or leave a heavy alive and then run before it can do anything meaningful back.

He gives bad deal in piece trades. It makes sense.

anyone got new jakes card?

File: jakes 1.jpg (51KB, 720x474px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 720x474px

>>48681207
They're all in war room now, but here.

File: jakes 2.jpg (42KB, 720x484px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 720x484px

>>48681207

>>48681314
>>48681329
thanks new friend

>>48680753

or you know, you can commit two models out of a cheap as chips infantry unit to hug the base so it cant move backwards (no need to even approach from the sides, you can do it approaching from the front without leaving melee range.

or kaelyssa can just stationary the fuckers.

his feat is a damn good deal to me, free heavies getting placed in positions to die because people think the feat is good :D

>>48684229
>There's a counter to a feat
>That means it's absolutely useless

How's that Kaelyssa drop into Legion?

>>48684371

a counter to the feat that every single army with at least one unit of troops or any hard hitting gunline can achieve. Let alone anyone with stationary effects such as kae, lyl3, sorscha and more

its not that theres a single counter to his feat, its that its one of the easier feats in the entire game to counter.

whats he going to do into ossyan apart from eat shit and die? poison pill advance into melee with a single strikeforce member while the rest are shooting rat6 deadeye with 4 dice damage?

>>48680716
This model makes me want to start playing Retribution, but I hate all of their warjacks with a passion. They just look awful.

>>48684469
>Let's make up a bullshit tactic that's difficult to execute, can be countered, and then reference a specific matchup that might be bad for him

Keep going, you might convince someone you're not an idiot.

>>48684484
Shyeel myrmidons look like big angry beetles/kamen riders if you give them a little TLC, it's not all bad.

Vyre jacks are kind of weird, but I think "kind of weird" is House Vyre's uniting theme to begin with.

>>48684559

Difficult to execute? you fucking run two models straight at the jack and hug its base, thats all you need to do mongoloid.

if thats difficult to execute for you, no wonder you think malakov is good...

>>48684661
>I only play against braindead people who allow me to do whatever I want

I'm sure your dad is proud of you, anon.

>>48684559

someone never learned how to play against PoM...

People have been doing that against enliven for years. Its not a bullshit tactic.

>>48684777

and what is malakov going to do to stop me from doing that?

oh thats right, nothing.

Hes a trash caster with nothing exciting, and he'll only be played by special snowflakes such as yourself who lack a basic understanding of the game.

>>48684780
And Menoth players already know what to do to stop it

>>48684796
I dunno, place another model in such a way that you can't huge his stuff?

Like, he can put another heavy warjack in such a position that you can't actually do that.

And then what do you do? I bet you give up because you've never played against an opponent who has a functional brain.

>>48684862

okay mr hotshot, lets make a deal. you win a major tournament with malakov and i'll agree he isnt shit.

Or are you going to go "i dont have to do that for him to not be shit! all the tournament players are taking butcher and irusk and sorscha and zerkova but i know malakov is super good, trust me, i'm an autistic kid on an anonymous image board!"

Go on, back it up with results.

you're so good with him right, an you can always hard counter people trying to shut down his feat right? that means you'll win all the tournaments. it sure is good nothing can move other players models, like hellmouth or TK or pushes like gallows or helios gun, no sir, the moment you hug those jacks together the deal is sealed. the game is over, GG tournament thats a 100% win rate right there.

If only we had spells, guns, feats etc that allowed you to move your opponents models out of B2B...

Well, you can always use the choir of khador to make your jacks spell immune ri- oh.. you cant...

>>48684969
This post is amazing, and I love you for making it

>Someone has attacked my strawman! I MUST NOW CHALLENGE HIM TO AN UNREALISTIC LEVEL OF PROOF, KNOWING FULL WELL I WILL NEVER ACCEPT IT

Also, when have I suggested that the caster was amazing or even good? I'm just pointing out your attacks are stupid and spiteful.

File: o.o.png (40KB, 286x267px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 286x267px

>>48684969

Not the anon you're feuding w/ but you do realize that you can use Veil of Mists as a deterrent to running jammers behind the jack/s in question to keep it there right? A small base model needs to be about 1.25 inches from a heavy to stop it from moving through it with Veil of Mists, and at that point if you have enough room and space to scoot you probably just slip outta the exactly premeasured threat range of the heavy that just charged you. And you just need to clip the AoE of Veil on your move to slip past guys so you can have a very flexible 4" of influence wherein 2 drop that template.

You can also stop pushes with Devastators/Shocktrooper models with the UA attached and decent positioning.

He makes a solid pSorscha pairing and does v. well into certain gunlines and Cassius that she might not exactly want to see.

Reminder that Morghoul2 has some limited game, but Naaresh is unredeemable.

File: YAO MO FO.png (185KB, 600x684px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 600x684px

>>48686066

To expound on this as well, every time you are damaged by a possible contingent movement-oriented spell attack that has the potential to do damage (Gallows being the major example the anti-Malakov anon gave, since Hellmouth's damage component is not attack-oriented, but also including Force Hammers and Force Bolts from Retribution/Circle) you get to move your jack as well. Its very hard for someone on, say, Rahn's feat turn to successfully pull one of your jacks out of your control area unless he gets exceedingly lucky, and it's very hard to clear lanes to assassination Malakov on the feat turn if you cover him with Veil, a jack wall, and himself because even if a jack gets slammed over him, it can simply walk back in front of him again.

>>48657801
>>48666442
Sooo.. what are we seeing here? The new Hordes faction is... Malifaux? That doesn't seem right..

>>48686077
WRONG. It's the other way around and it takes a fool to mix those two up.

>>48684484
It's the tiny Trump hands.

Do you get to change veil of mists location when you upkeep it?

>>48645925
I agree

>>48657745
let me fix that for y'all:

>2spoopy4me halloweenietown faction

We haven't seen much yet, but whoa, it looks terrible.
With yet another ressource management system !! yes focus and fury and souls and corpses and blood tokens, rage tokens etc aren't enough !
Let's add MORE bullshit, just so this new faction is really different and unique !!

File: 35007_Manticore_WEB.jpg (307KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

307KB, 600x600px

>>48684484
I feel the same way. They look like the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man with tiny heads, hands, and throbbing erections.

I call them boner-bots.

>>48687725
>With yet another ressource management system !!

Source? Besides, it's not like Corpse and Soul tokens are difficult to keep track of. The majority of factions don't use them, or have maybe one unit/caster that does so you can easily ignore them if they strain your brain too much.

>>48687959
when you know a little more about games design, you might understand. But for now, the irony would be lost on you.

File: 8755450413401635346-account_id=1.jpg (60KB, 681x383px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 681x383px

>>48661925
Coal black -> meredius blue -> arcade blue triad for the blues. averland sunset -> hearthfire for the yellows. vallejo brassy brass for the copper metals. whatever iron/steel paints you want for the silver metals.

File: cock-pit.jpg (55KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 600x600px

>>48687745
You dare make fun of the cock-pit!?

File: image.jpg (768KB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

768KB, 3264x2448px

>>48688049
Top shelf response, you really got him

>>48688049
Funny how common game designers are among random anonymous /tg/ posters.

>>48686077
Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Naaresh 1) Master Ascetic Naaresh [+32]
- Agonizer [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Desert Hydra [38]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

Check and mate

>>48688892
I question your choice of the Hydra in the current shooting meta.

>>48688982
My issue with his list isn't the Desert Hydra, it's the fact that he only has six models that can do any considerable volume of work past the first turn of combat. And sure he can run his beasts fully hot until his handlers got blast/shot off the table. Or he's using his handlers to attack infantry which means they'll crumple in an instant. This list is just one blast/spray template away from being wholly crippled.

>>48661925
Glowing effect is complete shite there honestly. Those are painted really good, but glow effect is like tremendously ugly.

>>48688982
The list is actually highly resistant to shooting, I think.

Like, so long as the Hydra isn't hit with GW, he can survive quite a bit of shots, and between his forcing and all the paingivers, you can heal the absolute shit out of him.

The idea is to use him as massive cover, while using the Agonizer, Shield Guards, Orin, and other elements to protect him, while using those same elements to protect the support pieces.

The Hydra is especially durable on feat turn, of course, which helps a lot.

It also lets Naaresh get super far forward for Lamentations, which is great against a tons of lists and now Hordes

>>48689183
Tormenters are pretty decent at clearing out most infantry, so if it's a swarm there's that. And the Hydra can honestly account for a huge amount of models, provided he gets there, and Mk3 has given him the tools to get there.

>>48689731
>ike, so long as the Hydra isn't hit with GW, he can survive quite a bit of shots
Ossyan shoots it off the table in 1 turn.

>>48689796
Then maybe I don't drop it into Ossyan?

Like, one of the strongest shooting warcasters in the game shoots well, what's your point?

>>48690110
And so do Vlad and Sloan. And Caine has GW. And everyone brings AA. The nice for that anti-shooting-list is getting rather slim.

>>48690190
AA is easily dealt with, Shield guard

Most of the other lists don't do it with Naaresh's feat turn up. Caine might be a problem, but honestly, Caine has the traditional problem in that he'll come super far forward to do all of this and then Naaresh will just kill him back.

>>48690578
Caine has Gatecrasher.

>>48690615
And Naaresh has a full advance followed by a charge.

Honestly, I'm still debating putting the Commander in instead to get the extra movement out of that as well.

>>48690691
Skorne has a bad enough problem with support bloat. The Tyrant Commander is likely unplayable now because of how you just can't go wasting points anymore. That guy is half a Gladiator.

Uhm, I played small forces (25pts) of cephalyx amd convergence in mk2. Looking to expand into regular mercs. Are they any fun? I would propably like magnus if he lets me mix cygnar units in too.

>>48691461
He works super well with Naaresh though.

Like, there's a variant of the list with Keltarii to give them Blur, though I'm debating if that's actually worth it.

Beyond that, you're just losing Orin for him, which is possibly fine. Orin gives the list anti spell tech, mostly, but Naaresh makes spells and animi pretty nasty anyways.

There's the concept of doing More regular heavy stuff with him to fit in Despoiler, because at that point, fuck spells.

>>48691824
Keltarii are shit, don't bother. Your only real choice for generic infantry in Skorne is still Nihilators. 13DEF is okay, tough is nice, but Berserk makes them dangerous. Once Keltarii are in they're kinda shit.

>>48692066
Are you from Mk2? Keltarii and Karax are both really good in the current meta.

>>48692171
Keltarii are only good if you know what's coming. If everyone's predictably slamming gunlines onto the table and letting people counterlist them, that's just their stupid mistake.

>>48692193
Well everyone IS bringing gunlines.

>>48692066
Na, the Keltarii under Naaresh do alright.

Blur + Bladeshield make them super tough to remove with non-blast damage.

>>48689731
>Like,

Ffs just type your fucking sentence and make your point. Writing like this makes you look really dumb.

Sorry that's so off topic that it is in fact autistic, but I see this so much now and it's rage inducing.

>>48687725
It sounds interesting to me, even with you giving it the grognard sell

>>48688519
>based jehuty

Nice.

Karax, and anything venator are actually quality infantry in Skorne.

>>48691824
>Beyond that, you're just losing Orin for him, which is possibly fine
Which begs the question of whether Orin should've even been in there in the first place. I mean you've got a pair of Tormentors and a fucking Hydra (who is very underwhelming put side the Mammoth to be honest) to clear out infantry. If you're expecting gunlines, fuck the Agonizer off, fuck the Brute off because it's a support beast at this point and FUCK support, fuck the Sentry off because it's weak.

(Naaresh 1) Master Ascetic Naaresh [+32]
- Mammoth [38]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

Here's what I'd do with Naaresh. The Cannoneer and Mammoth should be able to blow any infantry off the table, and between them, the Gladiators, and Naaresh's feat, you've either got the muscle to punch anything at all off the board, or survive your opponent's turn. The Gobbers are simply a gloriously efficient way of spending your last 2 points.

>>48693300
I think you miss the point of the list.

It's resistant to gunlines, not an anti gunline. The point is to provide an average overall drop with the Hydra, because it's also resistant to melee.

Orin is in there for anti spell tech on the Hydra, more than killing any infantry.

>>48693369
The Hydra's animus states you cannot shoot while within the sandstorm. It doesn't say that you can't shoot into it so far as I'm aware. This means your CMD6 Hydra does absolutely nothing to actually stop gunlines.

Honestly if you want a warlock that's great at dealing with shooting, look towards Makeda1.
>Carnage
RIP AND TEAR
>Quicken
Not only increases your DEF against shooting, but helps you get in melee range of them quicker, which is MUCH better than getting within 4" then getting assault charged into oblivion.
>The Lash
Dumping a 4" template on a blob of small infantry is no joke.
>Subjugation of Will
Honestly the most underrated spell in Skorne. It'll save your solos from their solos.
>Feat
Sure it got nerfed, but bringing back infantry purely to tie things up is still relevant.

>>48693300
That actually looks pretty good, though I'm still not sold on the TyCom. I wouldn't necessarily drop it into any gunline, but it can probably deal with jack spam really well.

Have you thought about Gremlins instead of the TyCom? Or a Brute/Savage/Shaman for the TyCom+Bellows.

>>48693369
>It's resistant to gunlines
It really isn't.

>>48693448
So, uh, when did I ever bring up Sandstorm?

Because I didn't. Sandstorm has merit against assault based armies, like double spearmen Legion lists, because the assault shot is still a ranged attack.

Did you miss the part where I said it's an average overall drop? It's not fucking straight up anti gunline.

The point is that Naaresh can feat on the Hydra defensively against gunlines, giving him a hard to kill model he can heal like crazy after they shoot.

>>48693492
>It really isn't.

It's an ARM24 Garg with a shitload of boxes and the ability to heal like crazy.

>>48693502
>ARM24
Against shooting? Cause I don't think so.

>>48693492
Honestly I only put the TyCom in there to appease the faggot that wanted to Cyclone an extra 2". The list could happily drop it and the Gobbers to bring another 8pts of something. Maybe Maximus to shit on lights/infantry and a Willbreaker to Puppet Master the Mammoth or Cannoneer.

>>48693527
ARM22, whatever. It's still decently resistant to most shooting that can't GW it, and the only one who really can is Caine.

Like sure, you're going to take a fair bit of damage, but it heals so much of it that you can deal with it. And the Hydra's only problem is making it there, if it gets there it's fine.

>>48693502
>Naaresh can feat on the Hydra defensively against gunlines
And what about next turn when it comes to actually kill that gunline before they shoot again? The Hydra has very little in the way of dealing with infantry blobs. Also the Agonizer reduces STR by 2. It does nothing to shooting. And like nigger you're bringing Naaresh to give +3ARM to a single model? Use Xerxis1 and give it Defender's Ward or something. All versions of Xerxis and Makeda have the highest CMD in Skorne at 10, which makes the Hydra's animus actually really fucking relevant assuming a RNG10 gun can't toe the edge of a 10" Sandstorm and still shoot.

>>48693540
No know I have no reason to listen to you, right?

Your list, for example, completely fails to leverage Lamentations, because the Mammoth doesn't want to be as close to your opponent.

>>48693622
>Your list, for example, completely fails to leverage Lamentation
What the fuck does a list need to bring to utilize Lamentation? You just upkeep it and that's it.

>>48693617
5 Sprays don't deal with infantry blobs?

Look man, you just run/trample the Hydra forward against gunlines until he's jammed up into them, with Lamentations Naaresh following behind to fuck over upkeep casters(of which most gunline casters are). Once he's jammed into them, you can then Sandstorm where it matters, though just being jammed in is likely enough. Even if he kills the Hydra at that point, Naaresh, his two heavies, and the other stuff are going to be right behind him.

>>48693667
Because Naaresh needs to get far forward to actually make it worth it.

The Mammoth wants to hang out, at least a little bit, where the Hydra wants to dive right in. You use the Hydra to keep Naaresh safe as you move forward, because it can heal itself an absolute shitload

Could someone give me a quick rundown of Retribution heavies? I'm interested in taking Aspis and Chimera lights with Elara but I'm not sure what to take as a heavy. Leaning towards the Manticore now.

>>48693622
Well firstly you haven't read Lamentation because your opponent has to pay double to upkeep spells on models/units within Naaresh's CTRL, so if you can clip the edge of a single infantry model, he's forced to spend an extra point upkeeping. Secondly, you need to really ask yourself if it's worth trying to force Lamentation to work in the first place. With only a 12" bubble, trying to force it on your opponent puts you in real danger.

As much as I consider him the worst warlock in Skorne (btw senpai I play Skorne myself and have tried to force Naaresh to work many times this edition, one game falling for the trap of bringing lights), I'd just try and play a solid game with him while looking for the assassination and a good turn to feat. Remember, he has the highest WB points in Skorne for no good fucking reason, so your army is bigger than it would otherwise be. He has a full 8 free points over Mak2/3. Enjoy your +3DEF against shooting, your PS16 weapons, your 20ARM, your feat, and your ability to get at a caster from out of fucking nowhere.

>>48693713
>Because Naaresh needs to get far forward to actually make it worth it.
I promise you, trying to make Lamentation do anything is just going to get you assassinated. You cast it, upkeep it for free every turn, and sometimes it stops a beast from using its animus or makes the enemy caster have one point less for turn because you clipped an infantry model.

Since we're apparently discussing Skorne warlocks now, what's the major difference between Makeda 3 and Madrak 2? Everyone (2 podcasts) is shitting the bed about Madrak 2 killing all the doods. Is it because no one has publicly done it with Makeda 3? Or because Madrak's is based off of berserk attacks so he can bank more fury?

He's easily more survivable than she is, but that goes without saying.

Both have access to puppetmaster. Both have grievous. Makeda 3 has access to future sight and doesn't have to trigger her attacks off of living.

Why isn't everyone playing Makeda 3?

>>48694142
Because Makeda3 needs to feat to surf on infantry, whereas Madrak2 can just catch a wave whenever he wants, meaning he also has a feat for somewhere else in the game. He also has more WB points.

>>48694243
Pretty sure he needs his feat to grant himself overtake. I had to double check it.

Is there an animus or spell I'm missing?

>>48694292
Oh in that case I'm not so sure then. It's probably just Madrak. Could just be Warpath. Spell is insane.

>>48694355
>>48694292
>>48694243
>>48694142
Makeda3 only gets an advance and a fury from killing a model, Madrek gets an attack and a fury for killing a model.

Basically, Madrek gets two chances to kill something to Makeda's one.

>>48694709
Yeah berserk is def an advantage.

You could pre load her with a couple fury via her homegirls, and future sight could help.

>>48695384
There's still the very real problem of getting there with 3-4 Fury instead of 10+

>>48695449
Yep.

I guess I should leave a salty Skorne comment, but we're all tired of that.

So are people playing cryx?

>>48691627
I know the new Magnus pseudo contract theme lets them mix in long gunners and trenchers.

>>48695644

I've got one more salty Skorne comment in me:

Sandstorm does fuck all about Alton Ashley. Thanks, PP. You really keep us in mind during the design process.

Anyone mind posting a screenshot of the Mk2 Retribution book's page with the military breakdown containing all the houses?

>>48696928
Book is in OP. It's on page 41.

>>48696488
I'm trying to think of when I would want sand storm.

Keep coming up blank. Even if you went balls deep somehow with sand storm and despoiler animus up with agonizer etc. I just don't think it would be enough.

>>48697766
It's good against assault, and that's about it.

>>48697908
Ho hooo boy. Khador is fucked now

>>48693768
Elara 1 or 2?

Phoenix-Is an Arc node, so you can target it with Scything Touch from anywhere on the board. Has a reach p/s 17 melee weapon and regens 1d6 shield per turn. Gun is rng 10 pow 14 aoe 3.

Banshee- Vyre Jack. Has Critical grievous wounds. Reach p/s18. Gun is rng 12 pow 4 slams medium and small bases or knocks down a large base. Things cannot cast spells or give orders within 5 inches.

Hydra- 15 points. melee p/s 15 with chain attack grab n smash. Gun rng 12 pow 12 and gains +1rng and pow for each focus on it. Does not lose focus at start of new turn.

Sphinx- Cheap reach jack. Vyre Chassis. P/S 17. Gun is rng 10 pow 12 and makes spells targeting models hit have +3 rng.

>>48693768
if you take a phoenix you can forgoe the chimera, but i would start a 75 list like.

Elara2
-Sphinx 13pts
-Sphinx 13pts
-Phoenix 18pts
-Aspis 6pts
Arcanist x3 6pts

>>48701370
Chimera isn't the same use as a Phoenix.

A Chimera you can Apparition+run 5 inches away from a stealth unit and channel marked for death on em. Shortly thereafter the Chimera will get killed.

A chimera you can put in dangerous places to Arc your shit or to help you pass around buff spells.

>>48701662
At 8pts its too expensive to just arc mfd turn 1 and lose it.

Especially with proper utilization of the Phoenix you can arc it before using the jack to fuck something up.

>>48702151
Do any Ret casters make good use of a Chimera other than Rahn and possibly Garryth? I feel like at 8 points a Griffon makes for a much more immediate threat unless you really need angled channeling.

>>48703034
Almost anyone can put it to good use, really. It's a cheap, mobile arc node.

Surprisingly, it works pretty well with Tyrone and his Cleave. Their mobility and loadout lets them pulp their way through heavy infantry pretty damn quick, especially under feat. Obviously, they don't do it as well as Moros, but they're a lot cheaper and you can only have one of him.

Issyria can make use of them pretty notably. The Phoenix is great with her but sometimes you want a Hyperion and something cheap.

>>48703034
The only thing a griffin has over a Chimera is the shield, a reach weapon, and pathfinder.

The Chimera effectively gets the +2" fleet movement for free via apparition, can hit at P+S 16 for its initial, can boost its range defense, and is an arc node.

For me, the only reason I'd pick a Griffin over the Chimera is if I needed a missile to take out solos or harry a warnoun/other important target. Or the reach was INTENSELY important.

>>48704866
>The only thing a griffin has over a Chimera is the shield, a reach weapon, and pathfinder.

Um.

>>48700441
>>48701370
>>48701662
>>48702151
>>48704866
Lots of useful info here, thanks. I'm getting into Retribution after seeing Elara2 and was wondering what works best with her. Also looking at full units of Sentinels and Riflemen with UAs.

How many dragons are left and what happens if Papa Turok gets then all? Does he just like spread his blessing all over Caen or go back to sleep in the centre of the planet?

>>48705882
Then he finally gets to complete the dragondex and becomes the dragon master.

>>48705931
Now im imagining the pokérap but with all the dragons

File: Sakurafish.jpg (37KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 600x600px

>>48645785
I hates it.

I just can't stand the current steamroller and I hate how stupid the internal balance was made

>>48704866
>The only thing a griffin has over a Chimera is the shield, a reach weapon, and pathfinder.
This comment made me tear up a little I was laughing so hard. =) Yes, you're right, all the Griffon has are three of the best rules in the game for a jack.

The fact is, the Griffon is MUCH better in combat than the Chimera in most situations, and the Chimera doesn't want to be in combat anyway, because then it can't use the arc node that you bought it for. Reach is huge, and going from ARM 16 to ARM 18 is the difference between squishy and not.

In all honesty though, the fact that this is even a discussion shows they did a much better job of balancing the Ret lights this time around. The Chimera is cheap enough to be an interesting option compared to upgrading to a Phoenix, the Griffon is still great, the Aspis is as cheap as shield guards get, and even the poor, stupid Gorgon has a plausible role now as a tempo piece.

>>48705931
A wild Blighterghast appears!

... I feel like there needs to be a saturday-morning cartoon show about Toruk chasing down the athanc shards now.

>>48645785
Some really great changes like Power Up or Premeasuring. Some weird changes like terrain. And some horrible, horrible balance.

>>48706082
Yeah and once he has all but one, there's the horrible twist of "oh no, Everblight split his Athanc, we need to collect 150 more".

>>48706102
>Yeah and once he has all but one, there's the horrible twist of "oh no, Everblight split his Athanc, we need to collect 150 more".
Ah yes, a classic twist. Or, alternatively, you take the Pirates of Dark Water approach and just cancel the show with no explanation once he's collected half of them.

>>48705638
Reach is conditionally important, ARM benefit can be achieved through spells Ret has access to, and pathfinder can be given by spells Ret has access to.

Ret has nothing to channel spells outside their two arc nodes, damage boosts are almost wholly limited to feats, and def boosts can be achieved through spells.

So like I said, they both have benefits, each having a role, but I take more chimeras more often than I take griffins because the chimera is can fit more roles than being a missile.

What do you guys think of a 2 caster lower point format? Like 2caster 35pt games?

>>48707706
>what do you think about taking jack spam: the game and making it even more jack spammy?

I mean, play the game however you want. Find a buddy and try it and if it's fun, keep playing. If not, oh well.

>>48707706
kinda gets busted real quick. It's less busted if the points are at least some what big like 75

I can run a chimera to get LOS of most of a Protrectrate armies support models and Obliterate them with arced spells with Rahn or Helynna. I can do the same with a phoenix, but then I'm out a heavy instead of a light.

Same for a Stealth unit or hard to get to unit such as Widowmakers, Kayazy, Satyix, ect.

If I have Sentinels to protect then I'd trade a Chimera for Widowmakers no prob.

File: 1425354501342.png (347KB, 626x552px) Image search: [Google]

347KB, 626x552px

>>48707097
>Reach is conditionally important,
Bruh

File: 1459357655454.png (2MB, 806x952px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 806x952px

>>48708089
>Bruh
Yeah

So I made a joke list that I wanna try

Helynna
-Sylys
-2 Gorgons
-2 Manticore
-Disco
-Phoenix
-Sphinx

3 Arcanists

Kinda wanna fit a Hydra in there, maybe drop a Gorgon, up the sphinx to a Hydra, and bring another solo?

Don't wanna drop the two Manticores since they work great to slow down infantry and give attack volume.

>>48708158
Consider an Arcantrik Force Generator. Helynna is probs on of the best casters to use it with.

>>48707097
Today on /tg/ I learned that Reach, +2 ARM, and Pathfinder aren't good.

File: 73099_Hellmouth_WEB.jpg (325KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

325KB, 600x600px

So PP has to nerf this thing before release. Surely. Right guys?

File: cherry picking.jpg (458KB, 1627x1217px) Image search: [Google]

458KB, 1627x1217px

>>48708347
>Literally having no reading comprehansion

>>48708545
>literally being this stupid

A straight up threat range boost is situational!
A bonus to ARM that stacks with ARM buffs is situational because ARM buffs exist!
Every caster in Ret has Easy Rider!

Moron.

>>48708408
>Having trouble fighting the hellmouth
That's funny, here's why:
-Its tentacles are going to get shot off the table before it can do anything with them
-Even with spawning one tentacle a round, it's easy to screen large, important models with small models to block the pull
-Impervious flesh is nice, but any charging heavy is going to very likely splat it in a single hit, armor piercing will laugh at, and weapon master will still seriously threaten it
-Also corrosion
-It can't move, so it's super easy to play around
-The furthest its tentacles can even reach is a 10"+small base radius around it since its command range is 8" making an extremely easy to deal with/avoid threat

The only thing that makes it scary is how unique it is in the game. It's not actually very threatening.

File: 1469741451379.jpg (33KB, 240x240px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 240x240px

>>48708731
That's funny. First you implied that I said those things were bad, now you're saying that that I said they were situational.

And that's what they are, situational. You don't ALWAYS NEED reach. You don't ALWAYS NEED +2 ARM. You don't ALWAYS NEED pathfinder. Having those tools is nice for specific roles.

I explicitly stated in my original post that both jacks had differing roles, which is why I take one in some situations and the other in other situations.

Never said the griffin was shit. Never said it was bad at its job.

Sorry your opinions and ability to read are shit friendo.

>>48708779
Here's why you're dumb.

You realize it'll probably have Occultation and they only ever need one tentacle to get an important piece. Also good luck screening a heavy against Legion, the faction with some of the best spot removal in the game right now

Even funnier is you think killing a Hellmouth with a heavy is good. You're going to throw at least 10 points of heavy at a 6 point unit? OK, seems good for the Legion player. You just gave them a free heavy for basically nothing. Good job

Lastly, how do you expect to play around a unit that is half way up the table and within range of any important scenario element?

>>48708408
no, because PP are idiots.

When I was told that the thing was 6 pts, I thought it was mkii points since I saw it during lock and load friday.

Reach doesn't help when my goal is to arc a spell, just saying.

>>48709094
The only thing the hellmouth has going for it is the ability to pull things out of formation. A realistic maximum of two POW 15 hits per turn is not very threatening, especially for six points. That'll barely tickle a heavy and only slightly threaten a light.

And I love it how you assume that charging a heavy at it means you just lose the heavy like a charging heavy just automatically explodes at the end of your turn. What kind of idiot would sacrifice a heavy to kill something as easy to deal with as a hellmouth? A charge doesn't mean sacrifice. You charge when you're set up for a push you fucking retard.

And I expect to play around a unit that is halfway up the board and in range of scenario elements because it can only threaten a single model at a time. AND IT CAN'T MOVE which makes it excessively easy to plan around.

Every god damned faction has some form of ranged deadly shot or anatomical precision which would make an absolute joke of the hellmouth.

For six points or thereabouts most armies can get a light jack that is more survivable, hits nearly as hard, and CAN MOVE.

The hellmouth isn't special. It's easy to remove. It can only threaten very few things at a time. It's above average at best.

File: 1468866472794.gif (211KB, 681x800px) Image search: [Google]

211KB, 681x800px

>>48709353
So you're going to initiate a piece trade by killing a Hellmouth with a heavy. Really? Do you not understand how incredibly bad that is for you? You're essentially giving away a heavy for the worst possible trade.

You also lack a basic understanding of what the Hellmouth is meant to do and how it works. The tentacles move fine can run and charge and the Legion player only ever needs one. The one tentacle hits, pulls in your heavy and then the Legion player eats it.

Also the fact that you can't shoot them off the table efficiently without getting lucky on boostable guns. And then you're putting beasts and jacks into them which is a bad trade for you.

Also, Occultation ruins your day.

>>48709574
Can the tentacles be thrown? Because that'd be surreal as fuck.

>>48709574
Again you assume you can't set up a charge without throwing away a heavy. Not every charge is a piece trade you fucking witless mongrel.

The hellmouth can only effectively deal with one side of the board at a time, you put it in the middle and it won't be able to deal with anything. You either dedicate it to one side, or take two and sink 12 points into extremely specialized and easy to remove models.

It's def 10, meaning almost any gun with a special rule whether it's brutal strike, armor piercing, deadly shot, or ANYTHING with CRA (which just about every popular ranged option has these days) is going to wipe it off the board without breaking a sweat. And with the hellmouth only able to reach 11.75", the guns are gonna get first crack at it.

It's also massively vulnerable to many special rules in the game such as: anything that will cause it to forfeit movement/combat action (the hellmouth doesn't have movement to forfeit), any sort of def tech cause mat6, persistent templates, any anti arm skew tech, and I'm sure there's more that I'm not thinking of. The hellmouth is alright, above average maybe. But it sure as hell isn't broken.

This is why no one takes Legion players seriously. They only understand half the rules in the fucking game.

>>48709653
Yes tentacles can be thrown.

>>48710028
>Yes tentacles can be thrown.
Excuse me what.

>>48710054
Only the Hellmouth itself has the 'Buried' rule. The tentacles are regular small based infantry. They can be pushes, pulled, slammed, thrown, knocked down, etc. Also they are single wound.

File: 1425090555219.png (645KB, 722x525px) Image search: [Google]

645KB, 722x525px

>>48710028
>Again you assume you can't set up a charge without throwing away a heavy. Not every charge is a piece trade you fucking witless mongrel.
You are the one bring the whole "charge a heavy" argument
>The hellmouth can only effectively deal with one side of the board at a time, you put it in the middle and it won't be able to deal with anything. You either dedicate it to one side, or take two and sink 12 points into extremely specialized and easy to remove models.
middle is where scenarios happen dude. Also 12 pts is dirt cheap for 2 grunt regenerating 8 wound models given how rare and expensive models over 5 wounds are
>It's def 10, meaning almost any gun with a special rule whether it's brutal strike, armor piercing, deadly shot, or ANYTHING with CRA (which just about every popular ranged option has these days) is going to wipe it off the board without breaking a sweat. And with the hellmouth only able to reach 11.75", the guns are gonna get first crack at it.
impervious flesh at arm 18. Winterguard rockets do 1 point of damage on average. Shit is not trivial to remove. Even the best shooting package in the game, wgrc needs to dedicate it's entire activation to kill a 6 pointer.
>It's also massively vulnerable to many special rules in the game such as: anything that will cause it to forfeit movement/combat action (the hellmouth doesn't have movement to forfeit), any sort of def tech cause mat6, persistent templates, any anti arm skew tech, and I'm sure there's more that I'm not thinking of. The hellmouth is alright, above average maybe. But it sure as hell isn't broken.
Hellmouth makes it's pull + melee thing outside of the leader's combat action. The tentacle just makes it attack. It's same way how drag works around the limitation of which attacks the model can make by stating it in the card. Only way hellmouth can't make attacks is if it's stationary

File: Listening to Legion players.gif (1MB, 400x225px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 400x225px

>>48710561
>Even the best shooting package in the game, wgrc
>best shooting package in the game
>wgrc

Damn, I've been baited this whole time. You lost your subtle streak there anon.

>>48710632
name a shooting unit that can kill both hellmouths in one turn then you faggot.

File: moving-goal-posts.jpg (101KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 600x450px

>>48710666
>Suddenly requiring a single unit to be able to kill both hellmouths in a single turn

You know what, I'll just put wheels on it to make it easier for you.

>>48710666
It's possible with the Long Gunner Infantry.

10 man unit with UA, aiming for two shots each. That's two POW 21 shots, roll of 5 or 6 on damage will kill instantly. And that's severely misusing the unit (which is an okay unit under normal circumstances) and assuming it's in a vacuum with no support.

>>48709353
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you haven't actually played against the hellmouth? ... Or at least not in the hands of a competitive player? Because all of these things you seem to be dismissing out of hand are actually huge, HUGE problems for most lists.

The Hellmouth is prohibitively difficult to deal with, especially considering its low points cost. It is not easy to get to, and it is not easy to kill. You need to run some of that theorymachine math again - a heavy can come up short against this thing, with slightly below average rolls. And there's no doubt it's a trade... this just in, legion is good at alpha striking. If you come forward to get the hellmouth, they can get to you.

You're right that multiple deadly shots can be an answer, or anatomical precision if you have 8+ shots. In fact, it's so much better than any other option that you'll probably see people bringing deadly shot just to deal with the Hellmouth.

>>48709653
>Can the tentacles be thrown? Because that'd be surreal as fuck.
>Yes tentacles can be thrown.
It's almost as surreal as a tree getting turned into a pirate! Unlikely to actually come up in a game though... opposing player would usually prefer to just kill them, and the legion player doesn't have much incentive to try and throw them. They're fast enough to get where they want in their stationary 8" CMD bubble without help.

>>48711004
Throwing them wouldn't be a terrible option in some circumstances though. ARM 15 with impervious flesh means you'd likely have to dedicate more firepower than you'd want to, and if you can throw it out of command range you can force it to have to regroup with the hellmouth before it can use them again next turn and prevent a tentacle respawn.

I'm now imagining a hilarious situation where someone throws all of the hellmouth tentacles behind their lines and leaves models in the way to prevent them from moving back into formation so that the hellmouth cannot do anything.

Models out of formation have to move towards or run directly towards the leader, meaning with proper placement of models you can make it that the tentacles only possibly movement would be away from the hell mouth and as such they cannot move.

Of course an unrealistic situation to ever expect, but still funny to think about.

>>48710914
I'm not intending to 'dismiss out of hand' the strengths of the Hellmouth, but just stating that it isn't particularly hard to counter play.

And as for alpha striking, newsflash: literally EVERY faction alpha strikes in some respectable capacity and has many options for good spot removal. Just because Legion can do it a hair harder than others doesn't mean it just wins every encounter because of that.

I honestly think that for any non-top-tier-competitive player, the hellmouth is gonna end up being a points trap. It's easy to skirt, easy to predict, and not hard to eliminate wholesale if you plan for it, which isn't hard since most people like to bring at least one thing with some form of guaranteed damage.

The hell mouth isn't special. It's alright, or above average at best.

Two charging bane warriors can kill a hellmouth on below average rolls.

>>48710745
So where is this "trivial" shooting?

You fucking faggot.

>>48711685
have fun getting there. It's not like the ravagores stopped existing or the fact that tentacles still can't block lanes.

Hellmouth is a ridiculously good piece in a list that can actually shoot. It's mediocre if people are running a Thagrosh, godzilla style lists, but anything that's high mobility or gun based will thrive with it.

>>48711685
How will the bane warriors get there? They have no reliable delivery system, especially against Legion where Occultation goes out the window.