Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>48640838
You know what, it's technically breaking the rules but I'll post here instead. Thanks Neo-OP.

What's better, a DEX-based unchained monk or a STR-based one?

>>48640838
Same. Fetish bait OPs are cancer.

Normally I don't suggest creating another topic, even if the other one is shit. But I don't understand vore. Like at all. I certainly don't want the entire fucking thread to be about it.

So, dragon and horror books were awful. When was the last good book released? Was it Ultimate Intrigue? Weapon Master's Handbook? Tome of Battle?

>>48640895
Depends on if your DM allows you easy access to Dex to damage. If they do, its definitely Dex based.

>>48640902
Ultimate intrigue was all right but my query is if there is anything salvageable from Horror Adventures and Legacy of Dragons ?

>>48640918
The pages can be used to light a fire.

>>48640918
The calligraphy wyrm and pseudowyverns are cute!

>>48640902
>But I don't understand vore. Like at all.
That's a bad reasoning, anon.
I myself kinda like vore occasionally. But I still completely resent that thread and much prefer this one. Why? Because I think fetish OP's don't belong on fucking blue boards. Not because I disagree with a particular fetish.

>>48640902

The last book that was given universal acclaim? Distant Shores and Inner Sea Races.

The last book that was generally seen as good? Ultimate Intrigue.

Geez at this point I don't want to see their approach in Incarnum mechanics if they keep fucking up like this.

>>48640918
So far the only good thing I have seen from HA is the Serial Killer and the Gingerbread Witch. The corruptions are kinda ass.

Legacy of Dragons wouldn't even be worth to serve as fancy toilet paper.

>>48640918

Serial Killer was pretty good-Hangman also seems like it might be interesting, if not really effective. Same for the Mooncursed barbarian. Dragons had some interesting racial options, and I liked a few of the style feats. The Covetous Oracle curse seems like it might be fun for a certain type of character.

Beyond that, though, not a whole lot to write home about.

>>48640918
I'm reading through it now, I plan on giving a full review on it later

>Archetypes
Most are trash, moontouched barb and serial killer are aces, I personally like hangman and living grimoire.

>Spells
Can we please not stick evil on anything remotely cool? Too much require sacrifice, the effects aren't great, there's not a lot of gems from what I've seen.

>Corruptions
We all know the score here, I'd like to write a few of my own later.

>Fleshwarping
Hey, did someone call for a straight conversion of 3.5 grafting with worse grafts?

>Monsters
Now I actually like these, a lot of them are templates and stuff, but there's some cool ones that a few friends of mine wrote.

I'll do a better write up later.

How do people feel about allowing corruptions, but not making them three-failed-saves-means-character-death-or-retirement?

>>48640963

The Occultist. It's already out and pretty good.

>>48640895
>>48640907
Strength, because you can use a two-handed weapon and get 1.5x STR/PA as an Unchained Monk.

>>48640957
That was more an exclamation and an unneeded addition on my part. Fetish threads are bad. I can at least see some fetishes, but vore I just don't get. I'd much rather the threads actually be about a good topic to discuss.

>>48640981
Any chances we get any dragon-related content? Sure, the Druid and the Shaman darke archetypes are decent at 13+, but neither class is exactly my cup of tea to begin with.

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>>48640976
>Gingerbread Witch

Friendly reminder that Horror Adventures lets you play a vore witch!

>>48640976
>>48640979

WHY

WHY WAS LEGACY OF DRAGONS SO SHIT

PAIZO HAD DRAGONS TO WORK WITH, LITERALLY THE MOST METAL AND "writes itself" RACE IN FANTASY

AND THEY FUCKED UP.

HOW DO YOU FUCK UP DRAGONS

>>48641007

Have you never read Grimm fairy tales? The gingerbread witch is literally from Hansel and Gretel.

>>48640907
>>48640995
What if I got an Amulet of Mighty fists with Agile? Would STR still be stronger?

>>48641003
I plan on doing a dragon book, and from a writer's standpoint, I will be using drakes, but I do plan on writing content to make them less jank, even if it's through feats and traits. Those who remember the playtest will remember that Dragon Champion vigilante still exist, it's still the first thing that was added to my eventual dragon book.

>>48641045
Probably, yeah. It saves you a +1 and a feat, and assuming you want Power Attack (you do) you need some strength anyway.

How is Paizo reacting to people who point out you can't ride your drake as a Cavalier until Book 5/6 of their APs?

>>48641045
If you want to focus on dealing damage: Go strength.
If you want to be more durable: Go dexterity.

>>48641090
Or at all in PFS?

>>48641058
>>48641014
Non PF player, what was the problems with dragons?

PS, Wyverns a best

>>48640976
>>48640918
Blood Alchemist is alright, I think? It needs clarification on how Blood Circles and Blood Points work/how long they last/if they can be recovered.

>>48641058
Being perfectly fair here, the drake companions WOULD be fine, if they just started off at small and didn't have the level 17 size increase. Basically just move it from level 17 to level 1 and you solve the vast majority of the issues the companion itself has.

doesn't rely solve the steaming pile of shit the archetypes are, though.

>>48641067
>>48641095
Thanks. I'm new to pathfinder, so my GM recommended me to pump as many stuff into AC as possible, so I chose to go the Crane Style route.

>>48641099

Legacy of Dragons was supposed to give you all sorts of awesome lore and character archetypes associated with dragons and working with them, basically an opposite of the Dragon Slayer's Guide.

What we got were useless traits that hardly had any flavor and archetypes that give you a drake companion at the cost of most useful class skills, and the drake companion only pulls their weight by the halfway mark of a Paizo AP.

>>48641098

Are people actually asking this on the Paizo forums? That the drake is utterly useless for most campaigns?

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Would an usagimimi shota be the ultimate crafting cohort?

>>48641001
As someone who is on /d/ vore threads every now and then, it seems like there's at least one guy every other vore thread who specifically comes in to ask people to explain it to them
Sometimes they try and explain and sometimes they fall back on how sexual desire is unexplainable in general.
This is pfg and not d so we'll go with the latter today.

>>48641179
Not really, since usagimimi are only getting the bonus if THEY use the stuff they make, right? It's no help to others.

>>48641007
>VMC oracle
>bite counts as one larger
>be strength witch
>become huge dragon
>cast strong jaw
>bite for double damage
> 2x colossal+ creature

>>48641193
Now this is being a real Dragon.

>>48641193
Remember to take Vital Strike. At that point, it's actually worth it.

>>48641125
I can agree to that, which is something that can be fixed with feats, as well as me writing my own archetypes for how to give classes that don't have access to it a sweet dragon buddy.

Fly-based discipline when, Gareth?

>>48641222
Could you please make a vore dragon alchemist archetype?

Can we just flood the shitty vore thread with character art like we did last time? That way we don't have to worry about some assholes keeping it alive and throwing it in as the new thread once this one starts autosaging?

>>48641250
By the time you're devoting that much effort to opposing something that took the original vore OP half a minute to do, you've already lost.

>>48641250
Should we dump more vore in it then?

>>48641222
If you could write in the Hunter, that'd be swell. They're supposed to be THE petmaster class.

If I wanted to make an archetype for a class that opens up Wild Shape to non-druid classes, what class should get it? I was considering fighter or ranger.

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>>48641058
>I plan on doing a dragon book
>Dragon Champion vigilante still exists
>more content from someone who already has good content

Your only mistake is reminding me that I'll have to wait to find out what everything in it will be. You're safe solely because Dragon Champion was baller as fuck.
Dragon Champion specialization, and Cha-to-thing, when?

>>48641247
It's hard to validate a dragon archetype for alchemist after Paizo just did one, vore or not. Even if that archetype was completely unnecessary

>>48641283
I'm actually shocked they didn't get one, that's easily going to be in my list of drake classes. If I'm lucky, I'll get to playtest that one here.
.

>>48641250
I, for one, always appreciate TWF elves.
THF elves are okay, too, I guess.

Posting in the first non shit /pfg/ thread in weeks.

Thank you, OP. You are the hero we need, not the one we deserve.

>>48641222
Any chances you can do wyverns too or something? Honestly, the drake works far better as a companion moving on its own and is terrible until very lategame as a mount.

>>48641250
At this point what's the reason to even keep these threads around? They obviously only attract those scum of the earth "it's /tg/ so it's ok to throw my fetishes at everything and everybody and if you complain I'll act worse than the furries do!"

It's honestly pointless, just discuss things with your group, you'll probably get a better conversation out of them than here ever could.

>>48641014

Because they wanted to make cool stuff with dragon themes, but didn't want to break everything by doing so. Unfortunately, as is often the case with Paizo, they vastly, hilariously over-corrected, to the point that the fucking ARTs are some of the best, most useful options in the book.

>>48641296
I do want to give D. Champ its own specialization, and I think I'm going to actually not make it breath/claw split between giving it two like I did with the Pactbound Kineticist in KOP 2 (I almost wish I didn't write that alreayd so I could add it to this).

>>48641324
Before Drakes, I had thought about including Wyverns, so at this point I'll have to work and see what I can do, although drake spiritualist sound like some fun.

>>48641325
You're free to leave any time.
Won't stop the threads from happening.

>>48641332
Being fair here, the Drake isn't terrible. It's just terrible at low levels, and the Shaman is the only archetype that doesn't gut itself to get it.

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>>48641350
>I do want to give D.

>>48641350
Maybe as a feat much like Monstrous Mount? (And preferrably without something like Monstrous Mount Mastery)

looking to get into pathfinder. I've only played 1 game that was just me and dm so I could understand the basics of playing, never played d&d or anything else. Got a couple questions.

Should I get the core rulebook?
Tips for finding games, dm i played with says he has trouble putting together a group, so would roll20 or something else be the way to go?
Would fighter be a good class to start with until i understand the game more to avoid dying 2 min into combat?

Thanks for any help

>>48641365

>Terrible at low levels
>Shaman is the only archetype that doesn't gut itself to get it

Like I said, vastly and hilariously over-corrected. Which is a pity, because going on awesome adventures with a dragon friend sounded pretty fucking cool.

>>48641419
>Maybe as a feat much like Monstrous Mount? (And preferrably without something like Monstrous Mount Mastery)
Like leadership.

>>48640961
People liked Distant Shores?

>>48641429

>Should I get the core rulebook?
Absolutely not. It's all free online legally.

>Tips for finding games, dm i played with says he has trouble putting together a group, so would roll20 or something else be the way to go?
roll20 is a way to go but it's all up to luck. You can find great and terrible there - mostly terrible. Every so often pfg recruits for games: the people will probably be nice (probably) but you might be out of your depth at the optimisation level pfg plays at.

>Would fighter be a good class to start with until i understand the game more to avoid dying 2 min into combat?
Absolutely fucking no.

>>48641429
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
http://zenithgames.blog spot.com/2012/11/the-comprehensive-pathfinder-guides.html

>>48641455

It didn't do anything offensive beyond introduce Crystal's super special divine matriarchy, stuff like Hero-Gods and the Iridian Fold were pretty cool.

>>48641455
Except for Crystal's holy matriarchy that somehow worships a female version of Asmodeus, yeah. Was actually really decent.

So I'm reading through the Paizo forums because I hate myself and apparently there are people that enjoy the sanity rules and don't think they unfairly punish martial characters.

>>48641491
I guess, although "it was alright, I guess" isn't the same as universal acclaim.

>>48641429
>looking to get into pathfinder
Don't

Do a 360 and walk away

Get yourself a good system with a good group instead of this kludge we have to wallpaper with 3pp to make functional.

>>48641429

>Should I get the core rulebook
Well, there IS a website you can access that has all of the pertinent information (as well as some updates and FAQ fixes): http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
>Tips for finding games
Roll20 is probably not the best choice if you're just starting out, at least until you get a better grip on the rules. The community also has its ups and downs-even veteran players might have a hard time finding good people on there.
>Would fighter be a good class
Yeah, pretty basic, not a whole lot to keep track of. Might be worth checking out a guide or two for suggestions, though-could give you some stuff to think about as you get more experience with the system.

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>>48641350
Really, I just want DC because it's exactly the "all-day, reasonable martially oriented half-dragon" I've always wanted. The fact that your version of the breath weapon was something that actually looked worth using was just icing on the cake. Like, the ONLY major complaint I remember having was that there was nothing involving form of the dragon, but that's small stuff.

I kind of hope for a copy of Spiritual Duelist for the Dragon Champion, but that's because my lust for Cha-to-thing is absolutely immense.

>>48641560

I want your CHA to *my* thing, ohohohoho.

>>48641491
>>48641499

>Super special divine matriarchy
>Female version of Asmodeus

Think I missed that one. Can you give me the basic bullet points?

>>48641675
If you're a woman, you can now be a LG paladin of Asmodeus.

>>48641693

Didn't that already exit? Hellknights are Any Lawful and there is expressly at least one mentioned Paladin in them.

>>48641693
I'm pretty sure there were already rules for that, and there were at least two options to do that which weren't gender restricted.

>>48641723
As of Path of the Hellknight, Hellknights don't worship Asmo-chan and are completely and entirely unaffiliated with Hell or House Thrune.

Here I am the madman posting on 4chan during my lunch break. I am curious as to any form of feedback, or any form of talk. However I have a more important point to place, a few questions to pose.

What do you want to see most out of the Unchained Cavalier? (now that hard pressed development is underway, it's likely to change)

What does the Unchained Fighter not yet provide that you want to see?

Thank you everyone for your support.

>>48641770
I'll look over the fighter when I get a chance and give feedback.

>>48641675

Look of Holomog, it's literally described as a Divine Matriarchy where women are both the rulers and warriors, the latter because FUCK OFF ITS CANON and the former because every man who tries to sit on the throne dies horrifically.

If you're a woman or identity as a woman you're fine, and Holomog under the watchful eye of the Divine Matriarchs has flourished into an economic and military superpower. In fact, the only issues facing Holomog is what they seek to do in the future; there is a call to destroy the evil Geb kingdom, but will the drums of war get answered?

It's also a Middle Africa kingdom with Renaissance France architecture.

>>48641770
Can someone link them?
They're not in the pastebin.

>>48641540
Wat, surely you mean 180?
Doing a 360 means he'll be returning to pf, you nong.

>>48641882
Dude, that's an ooooold meme, how young are you?

Are there any good spells in the Horror Adventures or Legacy of Dragons?

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>>48641882

>>48641835

Ohhhh, THOSE guys. Didn't they try the whole "drums of war" thing before, and Geb just turned their army into stone because ain't nobody got time for that shiet?

>>48641892
Trying to backpedal to look less like a dithering retard. Cool, I guess.

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>>48641984

>>48641905
Nobody has scanned HA yet so we don't know.

What was the AP with Denizens of Leng?

>>48641675
Search for "the wily linguist", which is a female LN version of Asmodeus. Yes, the "cunning linguist".

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>>48641841
I certainly can. The Cavalier is not out to the public yet, but here are my other offerings:

The Unchained Fighter, an attempt at making the fighter into an archetypal career military man. Supporting both in and out of combat utility & ability.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1twEab3PBHvzMLTrx_UJak4P9g5avkvVaZfrBiMPI-6s/edit?usp=sharing

The Scholar, an initiator emulating the idea of the adventuring academic. Bringing his research station with him he is able to give creature comforts even when traveling.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WKwyK10BvzqVb9M3lIJ0ZyraUNSuEr8y0QK6ML6d-6Y/edit?usp=sharing

Included is a handy dandy PDF of the Unchained Fighter. If you like I can provide the most recent change log. I've begun keeping them.

>>48640902
Already jumping to this conclusion when not all of the material has been posted.
Uh huh, you must believe the earth is flat too.

>>48641984
Fucking newfag

>>48641517
Mysterious.

>>48642199
>He designated a number of items equal to half his fighter levels, these items may be changed by spending one full minute rearranging his pack, these items may be drawn using a free action.

Should be designates, and do these intentionally provoke AoO?

>>48642224
The earth is only flat because yo mom's so fat she's collapsing it in on itself.

>>48642455
Thank you for pointing this out. They should not provoke AoOs.

Class Template Homebrew Time, /pfg/! Wilds Warrior, a template for Fighters, Barbarians, and Rangers, giving them a wild-shaping like ability.

http://pastebin.com/3QzKWKfW

>>48642521
Remove the "s".
Just Wild Warrior sounds MUCH better.

>>48642521
>http://pastebin.com/3QzKWKfW
>form of the dragon II
>at 12 level
Jesus christ this is strong. You give up almost nothing as a barbarian to gain one of the most powerful class features in the game.

>>48642521
>>48642549
Add a "y".
Just Wyld Warrior sounds EVEN betterer.

>>48642521
How about Shiftstriker?

>>48642011
>>48642274
This doesn't make you less of a dithering retard.

>>48642468
I'm not American.
I dunno why you gotta your mom and sister like that.

>>48642521
Barbarians are not giving up nearly enough for this. Rangers are giving up early access bonus feats, fighters are... well, fighters are giving up the ability to take good archetypes that would trade those features away, and barbs give away jack and shit.

Barbarians should lose some rage powers to be on par with the ranger at the very least.

>>48642689

The problem is, the barbarian archetype that gives initiation loses rage powers, and I'd like this template to stack with those archetypes for the three classes. I have taken what I have heard, though, I'll find other stuff for them to lose.

>>48642575

Perhaps extend that out? Form of the Dragon II at, say, 16, and then mayube give them III at 20?

>>48642549
Done, you are correct.

>>48642731
You could also just... not have them lose extra, since it's fine as-is.

>>48642806
>You could also just... not have them lose extra, since it's fine as-is.

Is it? Not everyone seems to agree.

>>48642642
>>48642468
Summerfags please. 2hu buildposter furryfags vorefags and mindfuckfags are more than enough for this thread.

>>48642835
You mean one shitposter doesn't agree.

>>48642224
It's Paizo. We all know how bad it's going to be.

>>48642891

So then the consensus is that the class template is fine as-is?

>>48642936
Yes. Seriously, the people that post here need to stop just knee-jerk changing shit because one person complains.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tmz5?Is-the-Unhindered-Shield-feat-Too-Good

This amuses me.

>>48642959
No, what needs to happen is that the you shouldn't necessarily bow to the masses, especially if the single person makes a good point. Not that I have a fish in this barrel, I don't know what yer talkin' 'bout

>>48642855
What's wrong with 2hu?

>>48642891
No, I'm with the other guy, I think that the Barbarian loses too little for too much gain, especially when you compare it to what the Fighter and Ranger lose.

>>48642936
I am of the opinion that Dragon Shape that early is a bad idea. Just make it like actual Wild Shape for the options, or change the levels.

Barbarians don't give up enough.

Rangers give up the wrong things.

Fighters seem fine.

>>48643007
Autistic, spammer, poor effort to get their point across, doesn't listen to advice, ignores that their efforts to 'help' have been hurting the community and making people dislike PoW/Spheres/other 3pp, and all around an unpleasant person that stirs things up for no gain.

So could the spell Tears to Wine turn blood/brain fluids into alcohol?

>>48643104
>He doesn't suck DSP's cock
This is what you're saying.

>>48643114
Yes. Also sperm.

>>48643114
Yes.
*Any* nonmagic liquid.
You're not thinking hard enough if blood/brain fluid is the worst.

A more interesting question is whether you can do this to the body fluids of a living creature, like touching an open wound and turning all the blood in their body to wine to kill them. I don't see any RAW suggesting you can't?

Alright, taking into account feedback from here and from others; Wild Warrior, take two.

http://pastebin.com/L6fwDWim

>>48643104
>someone posts math and doesn't shill dsp at every chance they get.
We get it.

>>48643104
>and all around an unpleasant person that stirs things up for no gain.
>they demonstrate, with actual posted builds, how shit we are at the system
I can see why you would get so upset.

>>48643241
>>48643258
Someone can post math and still be a raging shitter, anon-kun-tachi.

>>48643321
My only issue with 2hu is their propensity to mass-dump their copy-pasted text rather than only expound on the relevant points.

>>48643321
Sure they can, but your reasons for them being a "raging shitter" are:
>They do math
>They post this maht that they did
>I'm too dumb to understand this math
>They ignore me when i say stupid things about the math
>The math says bad things about DSP
>They make me feel bad when they post math
Maybe the problem is you?

>>48643386
It says bad things about DSP, but isn't it still a lot better than Paizo's crap?

>>48643411
Not really...no. Bad math that makes your numbers too high is just as bad as math that makes your numbers too low.

>>48642122
Legacy of Fire and Shattered Star both had them.

Isn't the problem with 2hu that they make MASSIVE POSTS spreading the math out over a dozen posts, rather than posting once with "hey, here's the thing I did, the results, and a pastebin with proof of exact numbers".

>>48643459
Thanks.

>>48643424
Is it so bad if the competition's, like, full casters who BTFO encounters with one spell?

>>48643473
You'll find them in book three of Legacy of Fire and book five of Shattered Star.

>>48640988
Occultist is not Incarnum. You don't get to pick different implement schools each day, you can't swap your bindings each day, you can't swap your Mental Focus at will as a swift action, and so on. Just because you're spending a pool of points on a set of items doesn't make it Incarnum.

>>48643466
The problem with 2hu is being a passive-aggressive shit that does said posts while keeping up a constant tone of autistic condescension and superiority. The other problem is treating absurd corner cases like given assumptions, combining 3pp and then blaming both sides for not balancing to the other, and generally talking like an inbred lizardman.

>>48643589
The only time he's ever combined DSP with another 3pp was a SoP blaster build.

And that blaster build got EVEN STRONGER when he REMOVED the DSP shit, remember? It's here >>48631318

>>48643589
It's also people taking what they say AS passive-aggression.

The point is they're terrible at expressing themselves.

>>48643542
Yes. It's worse. Because they BTFO encounters with one turn at level 2.

>>48643589
>The problem with 2hu is being a passive-aggressive shit that does said posts while keeping up a constant tone of autistic condescension and superiority.
So the real problem is that 2hu makes you feel dumb and insecure? I think that that is your problem, not theirs.

You are seriously complaining how another poster makes you FEEL on fucking 4chan?

wew lad...

>>48643629
>Yes. It's worse. Because they BTFO encounters with one turn at level 2.
But barbarians are already doing this at level 2?

Who plays at level 2 anyway?

>>48643403
You're projecting pretty hard there, aniki.

>>48643684
>Who plays at level 2 anyway?
Unlike what /pfg/ believes in their echo chamber, most groups begin play at level 1. Really, /pfg/ has very warped assumption about games after being here. We're a tiny insignificant part of the overall community.

>>48643708
Initiators are perfectly fine at level 2.

They're no worse than sorcerers and wizards with Color Spray and Sleep. Or, you know, barbarians.

>>48643684
>is PoW bad?
>yes it's too powerfull
>more than wizards?
>they make the game equally unplayable as early as level 2
>but barbarians exist?
And barbarians can't hold a candle to what a PoW character does. Take a barbarian, give them 10 more AC, better saves, and the ability to fly at will or auto-block a attack per turn or something. Then you have a PoW character.

>>48643700
Except I'm not bitching about some autist, I'm bitching about people getting their feefee's hurt by reading posts by some autist. If 2hu's posts offend you then deal with it.

>>48643740
Oh I'm not arguing that, just that most people do play level 2.

>>48643629
In theorycraft and whiteroom yeah.

I agree that they do too much damage though.

>>48643629
>>48643708
>>48643740
Here's 2hu's level 1 human warder. It still uses PoW1 disciplines, but eh, it's not like PoWE is THAT better balanced (lol Elemental Flux).

Is >>48571565 overpowered? What about a warlord, wouldn't that be stronger?

>>48643740
>my class has just the offensive power as a color spray spammer or a barbarian!
>also twice the defensive abilities
>also no limited resources besides HP which i might be albe to heal because why not
>also almost completely self reliant
Not fooling anyone anon.

>>48643765
if your "theorycraft whiteroom" Is "take broken blade or the mirror image one and use a greatsword" then sure.

>>48643754
>>48643765
>>48643779
A level 2 initiator withOUT any PoW1 disciplines shits all over encounters more than any sorcerer, wizard, or barbarian. It's true.

>>48643802
No they don't.

At worst they're one rounding things like a Barbarian is if they blow their whole load. Pathfinder has no reward for overkill.

>>48643829
yea, and they can do it with much less risk than a barbarian can.

That level 1 barbarian of yours have less than 15 AC. The pow can have 23+ easily, or auto-blocking counters or a free mirror image or...

The "lets only compare offense to offense and ignore everything else" is disingenuous.

>>48643870
>auto-blocking counter
Like fucking what. There are some skill check counters that at that point are still very risky.

You're basically complaining that the martial has an option.

>>48643923
Didn't monks also used to get something like an auto block 1/round? Didn't we make fun of that because it got nerfed for being "too powerful"

>>48643684
No one wants to play at level 2, but every hack DM insists on starting at level 1.

>>48643970
Crane Style.

But you can't get that shit at level 1 or two, and PoW counters often have additional things like a counterattack.

>>48643970
Crane wing used to allow you to pick a SINGLE MELEE ATTACK and make it never happen, IIRC. I think it had like, two other conditions as well, on top of being two feats with a bunch of prereqs. Now it's garbage.

>>48643999
Couldn't you used to? Or was that only at 6+? I don't remember the old MoMS

>>48643829
A level 2 initiator can multitarget.

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Why does /pfg/ go spazzy when someone suggests that DSP's books aren't flawless?

>>48644062
Oh no! They can use a slightly better CLEAVE without a feat! OH LAWDY THEY CAN CLEAVE EVERY COUPLE O ROUNDS. SWEET JESUS.

>>48644094
>post examples
>examples
>those don't count
Just stop. You are demonstrably wrong and moving the goalposts won't help you.

>>48644090
Because paid shills post here.

>>48644090
Because the others who feel the same one come rushing in to try and claim the same thing. They're not wrong, but it's signalling against a strawman because no one ever makes those claims.

>>48641835
Hey, don't forget the Legate archetype from Armor Masters Handbook.

>>48644094
Without having to take Cleave.
And it's a better Cleave.

That's pretty fucking strong at level 2.

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>mfw the fetish /pfg/ was deleted

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>pathfinder game where you play a grays abducting and probing progressively harder fantasy creatures on Golarion for SCIENCE
Would you play it /pfg/?

>>48644106
>Because paid shills post here.

Wait, DSP can afford shills?

>>48644106
No I'm saying that's not fucking bad, that's something martial should be capable of doing by default.
>>48644119
Cleave is a shit feat. Even the PoW "hit two guys standing next to each other" version isn't that fucking great.

>>48644128
Probably, it sounds fun. Maybe include some "Why yes, I am a HOO-MAN" RP moments for humor.

>>48644128
No, I could just play Sengoku Rance instead.

>>48644148
Cleave is only decent as a Dwarf. Even then, it's not great because of the low damage.

>>48644148
It doesn't fucking matter what you THINK should be default. PoW martials shit all over the monster manual from level 2 onward just as much as level 15+ wizards shit all over the world.

>>48644182
Any Martial built half fucking competently is going to be shitting on the Monster Manual for level fucking 2.


They are a bit more killy and have a bit more in combat versatility. I'm sorry you hate it when your fighter mans have more options than "I roll attack to hit this one guy."

>>48644234
>pow is overpowered
>no it isn't
>here is evidence that it is
>but barbarian is worse
>here is evidence why you are wrong
>but numbers don't matter guys!
You aren't fooling anyone.

>>48644259
>>here is evidence that it is
And then I say it isn't.

I'm going to need an austic essay on the whole magic supremacy shit for a first party game. The guys I game with insist otherwise, being sure to always mention that wizards need to pay for new spells and time constraints in order to actually accomplish what they are trying to do, and often use the old Shadowrun tactic of kill the mage first for all enemies.

>>48644106
>Because paid shills post here.

They aren't paid, they do it for free.

>>48644320
Just play a wizard and show them firsthand.

>>48643986
Even "new DM" guides advise starting at level 3 these days.

>>48644320
If you're in a group of your friends then this autistic caster supremacy bullshit is not relevant whatsoever, don't even worry about it.

>>48644334
>>48644320
Most people actually can't pull off god wizards. Playing a god wizard is more difficult than any other class because of spell preparation choices and proper budgeting.

>>48644339
Proof, link guides.

>>48644339
Most DMs aren't gonna read a guide, they're just gonna have you make a group of level 1 adventurers and go clear out a cave full of goblins.

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>>48644234

Let us see what a 2nd-level human initiator can do. Since Path of War 1 disciplines are generally unbalanced and far too damaging, we will be automatically trading in all of their Path of War 1 disciplines for other disciplines.

Level: 2nd
Race: Human
Class: Warder (ordained defender, zweihander sentinel)
Ability Scores (25 point buy): Strength 16+2, Dexterity 12, Constitution 14, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 16, Charisma 7

Key Trait: Generic +2 initiative
Feats: Furious Focus (human bonus), Power Attack
Key Equipment (315 out of 1,000 gp spent): Masterwork lucerne hammer (315 gp)

Martial Tradition: One of choice

Maneuvers Readied: Minute Hand, Oaken Shield, Piercing Strike, Tidal Blade
Stances: Reaching Blade Stance, Unbroken Stride

Initiative: 1 Dexterity modifier + 2 trait = +3
Attack bonus with Furious Focus: 2 BAB + 4 Strength modifier + 1 masterwork = +7
Damage bonus with Furious Focus and Reaching Blade Stance: 2d6 weapon + 6 Strength modifier multiplied + 3 Power Attack + 1d6 stance = 3d6+9

This character wants to start combat in Reaching Blade Stance. They can move 20 feet and open up with either:
• Piercing Strike, targeting two enemies adjacent to each other within 20 feet
• Tidal Blade, targeting two enemies within 15 feet
Either way, they can follow up with a swift action Minute Hand to delete an enemy within 10 feet. During their next turn, they can use whichever out of Piercing Blade or Tidal Blade they have yet to expend.

Defense-wise, this character is quite sturdy. d12 HD, good Fortitude and Will, decent high Wisdom, heavy armor, and a +1 shield bonus. They can practically deflect an attack against their AC once per encounter with Oaken Shield.

Thanks to Defensive Focus (Wisdom-based Combat Reflexes), Aegis +1 out to 10 feet, Armiger's Mark, and Armament Shield, they can hold off numerous attackers with powerful AoOs while being able to take a hit themselves.

How would a 2nd-level barbarian or sorcerer compare to this warder?

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>>48644456

>2d6 weapon + 6 Strength modifier multiplied + 3 Power Attack + 1d6 stance = 3d6+9
Correction: 1d12+1d6+9, due to using a lucerne hammer.

For reference:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3

The average CR 1 monster has AC 14.1 and 12.3 hit points.
The average CR 2 monster has AC 15.1 and 19.4 hit points.

This warder stands a decent chance of eliminating a CR 2 monster in a single hit, and any CR 1 enemy they land a blow on is probably dead.

The comparison to a 2nd-level barbarian or sorcerer is not a rhetorical one; how well would this warder compare to either?

>>48644320
>being sure to always mention that wizards need to pay for new spells
Except they don't. 2 free spells every level.

>>48644148
>No I'm saying that's not fucking bad, that's something martial should be capable of doing by default.
THIS

This is not something martials are incapable of at level 1/2, it only starts being impossible at level 3 and above because of 3.PF's retarded HP bloat and because it's borderline impossible to get Pounce until midgame at best unless you're a Summoner or Druid.

You're literally crying about lower damage than 3.5. Fuck off.

>>48644504
A Human vivisectionist Alchemist can achieve similar numbers and reach with Mutagen+Longarm

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Hey, anyone have the hellknight screencaps?
I'm playing a Paladin of Damerrich and need the pages on the Order of the Chain's different kinds of manacles and masks and things.

>>48644456
Furious Focus is weaker than Weapon Focus until level 4. Either way you're getting an effective +1 to hit.

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>>48644639
It's in the trove you know

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>>48644456
>>48644504

Also, as an alternative to Piercing Strike, this warder could take Thirsting Axe Strike from Unquiet Grave 1, which causes them to gain temporary hit points equal to the damage they deal.

For a warder who swings for 1d12+1d6+9 damage on a hit, it is definitely a maneuver worth looking into.

>>48644625

Quite respectable. I will point out that this takes up non-negligible resources and buffing time. It is not quite as "on demand" as what the warder can achieve.

The vivisectionist cannot employ multitarget attacks as easily. Additionally, the vivisectionist will be significantly frailer than the heavy-armored, d12 HD warder, no?

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>>48644644

You are absolutely correct in this case. I mostly place it on builds out of habit.

Swap out Furious Focus as appropriate in the build in >>48644456, then. It could even be replaced with Improved Initiative if necessary. In fact, let us do exactly that.

Level: 2nd
Race: Human
Class: Warder (ordained defender, zweihander sentinel)
Ability Scores (25 point buy): Strength 16+2, Dexterity 12, Constitution 14, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 16, Charisma 7

Key Trait: Generic +2 initiative trait
Feats: Improved Initiative (human bonus), Power Attack
Key Equipment (315 out of 1,000 gp spent): Masterwork lucerne hammer (315 gp)

Martial Tradition: One of choice

Maneuvers Readied: Minute Hand, Oaken Shield, Thirsting Axe Strike, Tidal Blade
Stances: Reaching Blade Stance, Unbroken Stride

Initiative: 1 Dexterity modifier + 4 Improved Initiative + 2 trait = +7
Attack bonus with Power Attack: 2 BAB + 4 Strength modifier + 1 masterwork - 1 Power Attack = +6
Damage bonus with Power Attack and Reaching Blade Stance: 1d12 weapon + 6 Strength modifier multiplied + 3 Power Attack + 1d6 stance = 1d12+1d6+9

The warder is now better able to go first and delete enemies, and Thirsting Axe Strike is quite effective for durability.

So everyone, while it's not my playtest (sad face), there is a playtest being ran by a friend of mine for the cleric, it's the Clerics of Porphyra playtest, and while I'm going to drop the URL, this isn't my playtest. Please leave anything you want to say on the doc, I'll talk with the dev, see if I can get him over here to discuss it all with you, but he did want me to drop off the URL.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JAozPVUFtNKCBKIzGCA17FrCURcZclwFOg879QMMVYM/edit?usp=sharinghttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1JAozPVUFtNKCBKIzGCA17FrCURcZclwFOg879QMMVYM/edit?usp=sharing

Again, not my playtest, I'm not directly involved in this, this is not my project.

>>48644742
That's with a 60% chance of hitting, 70% if you go first. That's not a negligible miss chance.

>>48644813
It's level fucking 2

>>48643424
Except it isn't that the numbers are too high.

You know when the numbers are too high? When you outright attempt to purposely break the system, combining things from every possible source after combing the entirety of a system for ways to break it.

That's what 2hu does. And it isn't just that, it's that he pushes it around as though this is what happens in every game, and what everyone is supposed to do. His builds sacrifices everything to excel at damage, and are incapable of anything else. They aren't builds that will ever see a table.

>>48644742
No. Fuck off, you autistic faggot. Nobody wants you here.

So I want to play an unchained monk with a santetsukon.
Can you use style strikes with monk weapons or are they just unarmed strikes?

>>48644897
Don't say that, you'll prompt 'em to post that spheres blaster again.

>>48644897
>His builds sacrifices everything to excel at damage, and are incapable of anything else.
[citation needed]

>>48644925
Spheres is absolute dogshit and the lead dev is an idiot.

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>>48644813

That is quite respectable for a 2nd-level martial, so I would think.

For comparison, a 2nd-level sorcerer might have Charisma 18, giving them a Color Spray save DC of 15.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3

Average Will is +1.5 for CR 1, and +2.5 for CR 2. Thus, the average CR 2 monster will need to roll at least a 12 or a 13 to resist a Color Spray, which is only slightly in the sorcerer's favor.

This is, of course, setting aside that 24.69% of CR 1 monsters and 21.24% of CR 2 monsters are immune to mind-affecting effects and thus Color Spray.

>>48644897

>His builds sacrifices everything to excel at damage, and are incapable of anything else.

The up-to-date warder in >>48644742 has fairly high initiative, defenses thanks to Oaken Shield and Thirsting Axe Strike, and battlefield lockdown thanks to all of their warder and zweihander sentinel class features.

Certainly, they can murder the opposition quite effectively, but they are also quite capable of holding the line and taking a hit.

By 3rd-level, they attain the Conversion inquisition, allowing them to use Wisdom in place of Charisma for all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.

>>48643240
I was one of the 'make barbarians lose more' anons before and this looks much better.

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>>48644942
Is Meyers an idiot from time to time?

Yes.

Does Spheres have flaws?

Also yes.

But then we're also playing Pathfinder, a system with more flaws and bigger idiots in charge of it.

>>48644897
>They aren't builds that will ever see a table.
Some aren't. This isn't that fucking strange.

>>48644745
Wow, this thing is awful.

Just report the weeb and move on.

>>48644917
Unarmed only, but there's a few weapon properties (Ki something) and Ascetic Style that let you use weapons for them.

Also, Blade of the Sword Saint.

>>48644949
Can I ask you a serious question? This is fairly important.

>>48645013
Are you about to propose?

>>48644971
Again, not my project, I'm here posting it for a friend, so if you have comments, I'd leave them on the doc. I'm not big on the cleric, so I can't help them a lot, but if you have suggestions, I'm sure they'd love to receive them.

Open note to 2hu.

TRIM SHIT.

Brevity is the essence of wit, we don't need a complete build every time to try to elucidate something.

State something, then if someone CHALLENGES it do you drop calculations, and ONLY the shit that's relevant. We don't need to know about what out of combat things a blaster can do if we're talking about blasters' damage.

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I'm interested in playing Starfinder when that comes out. Should I also try Pathfinder beforehand so I can get a feel for the system?

>>48644993
Thanks, that's great

>>48645049
IT is literally saving time:

>3hu says something
>people say "prove it"
>2hu THEN posts the math

ITs just the same thing dude.

>>48645062

I mean, you can if you want. Not sure how much will change between the two systems, so it's hard to say how much it might help.

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>>48644742

Suppose we were to make the 2nd-level human warder an initiating barbarian instead. Once again, since Path of War 1 disciplines are generally unbalanced, we will be swapping them out for other disciplines, especially Primal Fury.

Level: 2nd
Race: Human
Class: Barbarian (chained, primal disciple)
Ability Scores (25 point buy): Strength 16+2, Dexterity 12, Constitution 16, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 14, Charisma 7

Key Trait: Generic +2 initiative trait
Feats: Improved Initiative (human bonus), Victorious Recovery (bonus), Power Attack
Rage Power: Reckless Abandon
Key Equipment (350 out of 1,000 gp spent): Masterwork greatsword (350 gp)

Martial Tradition: One of choice

Maneuvers Readied: Minute Hand, Thirsting Axe Strike, Tidal Blade
Stances: Reaching Blade Stance

Initiative: 1 Dexterity modifier + 4 Improved Initiative + 2 trait = +7
Attack bonus with Power Attack and rage: 2 BAB + 6 Strength modifier + 1 masterwork - 1 Power Attack + 1 Reckless Abandon = +9
Damage bonus with Power Attack, rage, and Reaching Blade Stance: 2d6 weapon + 9 Strength modifier multiplied + 3 Power Attack + 1d6 stance = 3d6+12

This character similarly wants to start combat in Reaching Blade Stance. They can move 30 feet (20 feet in medium armor) and open up with either:
• Thirsting Axe Strike, gaining temporary hit points equal to the damage they deal
• Tidal Blade, targeting two enemies within 10 feet
Once again, they can follow up with a swift action Minute Hand to delete an enemy within 5 feet. During their next turn, they can use whichever out of Thirsting Axe Strike or Tidal Blade they did not use the first turn.
Victorious Recovery starts the cycle all over again.

Compared to the warder, they cannot do much else, but they are certainly far more accurate and capable of deleting enemies. I dare say that this is an almost strict upgrade compared to a regular barbarian.

How are Paizo-only barbarians supposed to compete in the face of the barbarian (primal disciple)?

>>48645062
My understanding is that the systems will be conversion friendly, but they will not, in fact, be the same system*. As such, you're liable to learn a lot of particular niggling rules in Pathfinder that don't apply to Starfinder, and vise versa. I'd say hold off and just play Starfinder itself, otherwise you'll end up feeling like everything's just slightly off.

*A friend told me this, I don't have a source

>>48645112
see
>>48645013

>>48645100
Yes, but people won't always challenge it.

>>48644897
>your builds don't count because I don't like them.
You are wrong. Cry more.

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>>48645013

Yes. Pose your query, but know that whether or not to answer it is my choice.

>>48645049

I have not been posting full builds. I leave many statistics left to the reader to calculate, and I always leave skill points unspent.

The topic with respect to blasters was not simply "Spheres of Power blasters deal too little damage," but rather "Spheres of Power blasters deal too little damage, have poor longevity, and can do nothing else but blast." I have disproven such claims with the 5th-level, no-Dreamscarred build in >>48631318, but the caveat is that it takes a considerable amount of multiclassing that not all players and GMs will be comfortable with.

>>48645013
You don't need my permission.

Anybody feel like posting scans of Horror Adventures?

>>48645211
What's your reason for not adopting a name/trip?

>>48645211
I still don't get why you 100% ignore Elementalists in your blasting.

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>>48645239
Because trips are cancer you dumb nigger

>>48645211
He's not talking about filling out skills, he's talking about posting massive walls of text for builds. Use Pastebin or something to cut down on that, or at least only list a few feats and abilities that are integral to the build instead of EVERYTHING.

Seriously, just use fucking pastebin.

>>48645308
>Faking being 2hu
I'm sorry your life is this bad.

>>48645322
No one but you is triggered by this. Deal with it.

>>48645333
People constantly complain about how 2hu makes huge posts. How is this new?

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>>48645233
I too would like this.

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>>48645239

While it would appease some, it would only further disgruntle others. There would be no net benefit, so I fail to see the impetus to apply the change.

>>48645240

Taking levels in incanter or wizard (sphere) with a Destruction sphere specialization confers just as large a damage bonus while offering more talents and, when it is time to branch out in the future, full caster level for other spheres.

The build in >>48631318 sacrifices a marginal amount of bonus damage in favor of reasonably useful noncombat utility from the one-level dips.

>>48645322

Everyone of the feats and maneuvers I write into a build key into the build's overall playstyle.

I do not use pastebin for these builds, because I know that many will find it too inconvenient to click on and open a new link, and that a single long post is not particularly difficult to scroll past.

>>48645330
Thank you, I really needed that. I've been having a rough time lately.

>>48645362
Your thin-skinned bitching is so much worse than someone posting content.

>>48645379
>I know that many will find it too inconvenient to click on and open a new link
It's literally no effort at all. It's just one less thing for people to complain about.

What would happen if your players played as a bunch of grey aliens through Paizo's APs?
I mean, a bunch of screaming will be involved either way.

>>48645379
>I know that many will find it too inconvenient to click on and open a new link, and that a single long post is not particularly difficult to scroll past.

You're clearly lying out your own ass, because I'm on a phone and scrolling past IS difficult on this thing. Similarly, a trip would at least make it possible for me to hide any of your posts to make sure I don't need to scroll past since it will do so automatically, so there is a net benefit. Stop thinking only of yourself as if you know how other people think, you clearly don't.

What are people's thoughts on DSP's newest release of genius, Dawnborn?
>>48635373

>>48645385
Hey man, do you wanna talk about it? Anything we can do to help?

>>48645429
More like Stillborn.

>>48645419
Again. No one but your thin skinned little bitch ass is complaining about having to scroll a bit further.

Quit acting like a bitch and deal with it. I don't want to have to load new tabs because you can't handle someone posting content.

>>48645385
>>48645437
Yea seriously. Been there. Want to talk about it?

>>48645379
If someone cares about your build, they will click the dang link.

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>>48645429
You mean Mutants & Masterminds 3e?

;_;

>>48645452
I'm a different person from the original complainer.

>>48645379
How would it disgruntle others? You have a distinctive writing style and tone, and you post with an avatar. You already clearly identify yourself to everyone around you.

If you adopt a trip/name, then it prevents people from impersonating you if that ever might happen, and it allows people that would rather not deal with you to filter you. It doesn't change that you're already showing who you are, it just lets people who don't want to see you have that option. Additionally, since it lets people not see you, it would reduce the shitposting about you, which is a net increase in the quality of the thread for everyone involved, and cuts out drama that your friends have problems with.

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>>48645233
>>48645364
Yeah sure, what do you guys want? Word of warning, there's a LOT of shit (258 pages total) so it'll probably take until the next thread.

>>48645391
Oh never mind then, I guess I shouldn't post content because I'm just bitching.

>>48645448
>>48645458
It's pretty cool though. I don't see your complaining as legitimate.

>>48645452
As far as I can tell, we'd have less people bitching about having to click a link than we have people bitching about walls of text right now. Net positive.

>>48645452
>>48645437
I'm good. Was just shitposting to relieve some stress.

>>48645479
You know the answer to this would be fuck yes!

>>48645479
Fleshwarping, please

>>48645479
Gimme dem Slayer archetypes.

>>48645466
>implying it won't intensify the shitposting because 'lolololol get out namefag/tripfag'
That's what's gonna happen.

>>48645479
All of it, at the same time.

>>48645479
Show me dem Mesmerist archetypes.

>>48645493
If you're sure, bro. Take care of yourself, okay? Don't forget to drink water and do something nice for yourself.

>>48645479
>mfw my order through my FLGS came in a day before the book was released.

I don't know how, but I thanked the Gods of Gaming properly.

>>48645479
Kineticist, Slayer, Alchemist, and Occultist please!

>>48645514
Given that he already clearly identifies himself with the style, tone, and avatar, and that people already do that to him and have been requesting that he get a name/trip so they can filter him, it can't really get worse, and doing it can only improve the threads.

>>48645479
Feats yo, and maybe magic items

>>48645602
Nah, it'll just give a new reason to bitch.

>>48645584
Hey, let me save you a little time, Kineticist was bad.

>>48645637
Then why not test that theory out?

>>48645662
Some people watch trains because they like them.
Some people watch trains because they hope they'll crash.

>>48645479
>>48645662

I hear the kineticist got two wild talents that let them pick up a familiar.
Vaguely interested in that, at least.

>>48645607
Seconding these, too.

>Jump over hole
>Fail
>Fall into it
>Party decides to close it so they can pass over and then open it to let me out
>My leg gets stuck in the mechanism
>Gets broken
>I start bleeding horribly
God damn it.

>Human Archaeologist Bard 1/Seer Legalistic Oracle 1

>Nature's Divination gives +10 Competence bonus once a day
>Legalistic gives +4 morale bonus once a day
>Inexpiable Luck (Human feat) gives +8 once a day
>Bard allows me to make knowledge checks untrained
>Archaeologist gives me +2 luck bonus to skills, with fate's favored
>total +24 to a skill check once a day (can be spread out) and +2 for several rounds

This may be too retarded to work

>>48645883
It doesn't seem that spectacular to me.

>>48646017
At level 2 essentially nothing can beat that in an opposed check. Stealth, Bluff, Sense Motive, Linguistics, etc. No knowledge will be out of your reach, at least that you would encounter at level 2. You can activate pretty much all UMD things on a whim. If he is optimized he could be looking at some shit like +35 bluff. If he rolls a 1 and they roll a 20, they're still gonna need +16 sense motive.

Also Nature's Divination & Archaeologists Luck are just good without the cheese.
>>48645883
Know thy enemy for an additional +10 insight for monsters.

>>48646076
To rephrase, I'm not sure auto-passing a single check once a day is worth investing heavily in. Granted, I may be mistaken!

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Anonymous Homebrewfag here.

Curious about getting some feedback/critique for a Dragonslayer Homebrew class.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p4jcyWFRT_NNb10PQFjKmedtGZ-hKc_jfSHUwtPO1Rs/edit?usp=sharing

I don't have a lot of experience homebrewing so there's probably a lot of imbalances within it, but I would like to get this playtested at some point and have it be usable in campaigns.

Go forth and roast me /pfg/!

>>48646151
Dragons/10

It's too specific and it's absolutely useless if the campaign isn't 100% dragon-centric. Change the abilities to work on anything that's Large or Larger, and it'd probably be decent.

>>48646127
It's no so much autopassing one, but being able to gain bonuses on up to 4 a day. Plus Archeologist is a strong bard and Nature's Divination is amazing period because i can also do a +4 to saves.

>>48646151
I'm not 100% sure on the 5e-style archetypes, desu.

>>48645479
Feats, Spells.

>>48646151
Evasion either should be limited to Light/Medium armor, or just allow heavy armor. Heavy Armor is shit anyway, so probably just allow it for Evasion.

Weapon Training should be in weapon categories, not specific weapons. It makes it more flexible, and that's a good thing, generally.

That isn't how saving throw progression works.

The class, aside from static boost, doesn't really DO anything.

Either I'm misreading this, or you've messed up how Archetypes work. The term Archetype, in Pathfinder, refers to a set of alternate class features that you trade features out for. What you've got appears to be more like Orders, assuming it's basically "Pick your package of shit to add onto the class".

>>48646202
Fair enough!

Also, Legalistic curse is an awesome pick regardless, because it's so much FLAVOR.

is this for the roman game

>>48646296
yes

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What does /pfg/ think of DSP's own proprietary system, Dawnborn?

>>48635373

Think it'll be better than Pathfinder?

>>48646376
Anon, it's been linked once in the thread already. Please don't disrupt the general.

>>48646376
How about you ask in the fucking Dawnborn thread?

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Why do you guys still ORGANIZE PATHFINDER GAMES if you all recognize that it's utter shit?

>>48646173
Noted, will make those changes.

>>48646233
Will do, thanks for the roast. When you say "saving throw progression" are you talking about the save bonuses per level? or the various DC saves for their abilities?

I was unsure at first as I had originally intended it to be an archetype for Fighter, though as I was thinking more and more about it, It kind of evolved into its own thing. I began to plan that many of its strengths would come from the different orders/specialties they can advance into.

Including >>48646225
I guess its more like orders, yeah. I wasn't quite sure what to call it, and without a better idea for a word I went with "Archetype.

Thanks for the critique guys!

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So the Hive aliens from Horror aren't terrible, but they seem rather limited. Are there any decent xenomorph templates floating around in homebrew/3pp land?

>>48646432
Pathfinder is my GM's favorite system

I don't have a god damn choice

>>48646308
Cool! Hope you get in, though I think someone else was making an oracle as well. Unless you're that dude, of course.

>>48646432
Stay dry, pupper!

>>48646432
Because I still have fun playing it when I'm not playing it with the people here.

Hum.

I have an urge to make a better Dragon Fighter archetype than Dragonheir.

>>48646151
Expanding on >>48646233
I'm assuming that the 'archetypes' are basically a package that each character chooses, in which case they REALLY need to be renamed. And if they aren't, then they need work to work like normal archetypes.

Grand Arme: Sword Guard? Dude, just go look at the Zweihander Sentinel Warder. You're basically doing the same ability, and that one functions considerably smoother.

Defensive Charge: Make changes as seen above. It's called an Immediate action, not a Reactionary action. That isn't how CMB/CMD works at all. It should have them move up to their base speed, and make either be a Trip attempt with no AoO, or it should force a Reflex Save with a DC of 10+1/2 Character Level+Attack Modifier. The weapon size restriction makes no sense.

Crushing Blow: Good idea, probably needs to be either more times per day, or "As a free action, you may cause all of your melee attacks to target Touch AC until the start of your next turn. You can use this ability 3 times per day, plus an additional time per day for every two levels."

To reply to you before I forget:
>>48646438
I mean the actual progression of their saving throw bonuses. Fort/Ref/Will. Go look at other class tables, and you'll see how the bonuses progress. Overall, it seems like a good idea, but it needs come cleanup. The primary question is, does EVERYONE get one of those archetypes, or how does it work?

>>48646479
Maybe wanna help me make a better Dragon Cavalier archetype, too?

>>48646432

Because even though the system has plenty of flaws, some of which date back to 3rd and 3.5, it can still be great fun playing it with friends.

And stay dry, pupper.

>>48646504
Dragon starts at Large but BAB progression starts as it normally would. Also you need to buy new attacks for it with drake powers.

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>>48646432

What would happen if your players played as a bunch of grey aliens through Paizo's APs?
I mean, a bunch of screaming will be involved either way.

>>48646504
Sounds fairly simple to me.

Cash out your tactician/banner stuff, and get an upgrade from horse to dergun.

>>48646549
Then you need to stick them with a cleric using LRGG's "Abductee" archetype.

>>48646504
>>48646539
Oh also, you get the mounted power at level 1.

>>48646446
I look forward to seeing the Hive worker, I actually really liked the Hive and will probably take the Hive corruption on one of my characters regardless of how shit that system is.

>>48646497
>Zweihander Sentinel
Looks simple, thanks for the suggestion

>Defensive Charge
Thanks for the clarification, will note those changes

>Crushing Blow
Fair enough, noted.

>Saving Throws
Will do, I was mainly following fighter's progression, though increasing ref and will and lowering fort, though I'll go back to the drawing board with that.

As for the 3rd level advancements, Everyone get's one. When the character hits level 3, they essentially pick a branch of their choosing, and at the noted levels, pick which feats they wish to learn, excluding the level-locked ones. So yeah, works similar to Orders.

>>48646649
Corruption isn't a terrible system, it's just meant to be an actual risk vs reward, not a guaranteed power boost.

The hive are actually one of my favorite things from that book, and right around the proper power level. I just wish they had a template so that the dog xeno ends up different from the human is different from the gator etc.

>>48646763
>it's just meant to be an actual risk vs reward, not a guaranteed power boost.

But a lot of the tradeoffs have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more risks vs. rewards.

And some aren't that bad deals.

>Took Shadow Dodge on my Inquisitor
This should be fun.

New thread: >>48646809
>>48646809
>>48646809
>>48646809
>>48646809

>>48646763
My problem with corruptions (and fleshwarping) is that it's way too high penalties for way too little reward, that's not evil power at all.

>>48646763
It renders PCs unplayable through RNG. That's not a usable system, and a GM has to be a pretty huge asshole to inflict them on a character someone actually likes playing.

>>48646763
The worst part of it is the NPC-ifying.

That's a shitty move.

>>48646818
Dafuq outta here with that shit.

Someone make a less fucking awful thread.

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Are the basic feats like Power Attack worth it on PoW classes? Or are there better feats? Can I go ahead and grab the fun feats instead?

>>48645479
I'm running a horror game, so I'd have use for pretty much anything you put out, and would love a PDF if possible

>>48646821
You mean like most horror games do?

>>48646944

New less retarded thread
>>48646944
>>48646944
>>48646944

Not cancer OP addition

>>48646741
What I mean on saves is like, look at this: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian

Fort is a Good save. It shows the 1-20 progression.

Ref and Will are Poor saves. It shows the 1-20 progression. Those are the only progressions. Saves don't vary from that progression.

Alright, on the advancements, clarify that that's the case, and rename them something that isn't archetypes. It's already a term in use.

>>48641221
8x colossal+ creature

>>48641193
I'm pretty sure the FAQ says something about effective size changes not stacking, so only actual size changes and effective size changes would stack. You'd deal colossal damage, though, and that's still impressive.