Attributes how do they work?

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>>48625423
>it's just one more number
That's the philosophy that gave us Eoris.

>>48625495
Your point? This doesn't look more complicated than D&D 3.X, except notation is via marking circles, instead of writing down numbers?

>>48625640
The core mechanic (I won't get into anything else because I've managed to successfully block it from my mind) is rolling a number of d20 equal to your stat plus skill. Additionally, you roll a d20 to determine margin of success/failure, but that d20 might be one of the one's you're already rolling. Normally, you're looking for dice over 15, but your stat mod can change what number you're looking for based on how many points you sink into it. Count successes, adjust for penalties, and see if you succeed.

You do that for every single roll to do anything.

>>48625702
That sounds clunky but not due to the number of attributes that a character has but general game mechanics.

I mean... Rolemaster isn't clunkier than D&D because it has 10 attributes. So I wonder why some people seem to have a problem with having that many attributes here?

>>48625746
It wasn't even the number of attributes that I have problems with. The trick is remembering that every extra number is something else to think about and balance around. Rolemaster works (at least, I assume it does) because the designers had a plan for how granular they wanted the system and what niches each stat would fill, not because they kept adding numbers.

I think the captcha just invited me out to dinner.

>>48625423
Having a bunch of attributes feels very old fashioned these days. Games like FATE manage to get by without any hard-and-fast fixed attributes.

If we drill down to the core of role playing games we really only need three attributes: There's fighter, thief and wizard, so all we need is strength, agility and wisdom. However there's a clear hard limit on the amount of versatility in your game with only three stats. You're basically limiting yourself to ~9 classes - Three primary, six hybrids. So in order to open up the game you double those stats to represent different aspects of the core strength, agility and intelligence. Which is how we get to >>48625495, where the bloat has gone mad and the stats don't matter.

If you're designing, start with the three class/three stat basis and build upon it.

>>48625423
>>48625746

I feel the same as OP added numbers in characteristics barely add weight when they operate under the same principles.

Its like adding another entry into a table with the number of columns staying the same.

I dislike this modern recoiling reflex before anything that looks complex but actually isn't. It's like preemptively giving up because you might have to think.

>>48625423
Because most characters will only use one or two and dump the rest. If you want every attribute to be useful you either need to have a very small number or design an extremely complicated system to make each one important

>>48627952
>Every character will only be doing the thing he is optimized for.
>Diversification has no benefits in any system
>every player wants to be an idiot savant
>A characteristic being simply low isn't operating within the devised system.

I generally think each attribute should represent a way of playing your character.

>I just want to hit stuff = strength
>I want to have someone else hit stuff for me = charisma
>I just want to avoid stuff = agility
>I want to stand around but not die = vitality

I think things get bad if attributes
* step over each other
* are unclear of what they're used for
* have unequal scope (handle animal vs perception)

Generally, having lots of attributes means you are choosing to be good at very specific things while having fewer attributes means that you are choosing to be good at very broad things.

It's the difference between "I want to be a sneaky guy" vs "I want to be a agile guy with decent hand-eye coordination but not very fast".

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>>48625423
Tom Clancys The Division

That game made do with only 3 stars which is only is all you need.

Interestingly each stat have it's own XP so you would only actually level according to do and stuff related to that ability.

>>48626044
Wait, what?! Attributes are not just there to define a class. They exist also to define a character within a class. Is my character chaistmatic? Is he... perceptive? Is he very headstrong? Or is a well-read warrior-poet?

>>48627814
For me, attributes are useful for helping with adding modifiers to skills (which obviously can be more fine-grain if you have more skills) and in determining a default if you want to take an unskilled test.

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>>48627952
Ladies and gentlemen, role-playing at its finest.

>>48628484
What if I want play a Jaime Lannister type fighter? A handsome dude which drives the womanfolks crazy?

I honestly cannot believe that people are mostly comparing attributes and class. Does everyone play RPGs like it's fucking Diablo?

>>48629334
This. Attributes are supposed to be the fundamentals of your character.

Yes a skill base system is more realistic but you end up needing track half a dozen just skills go to the bathroom.

That's what attributes are for. A shorthand for what they can and can't do. Does my character know how to fix an engine? well he's IQ is eight so probably not.

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>>48629334
>>48629629
Personally I like how a Song Of Ice And Fire does it.

You have 18 base attributes which cover basically what skills would being in any of the game. They pretty much define and cover everything you need mechanically to know about your character.

Further Skill specialisation is specific enough to adds flavour without being a 'tax' for that ability.

It helps the roll and keep system means skills and attributes work differently. You roll skill you keep attribute. It's not just a choice between two different types of +1s.