Leman Russ Tractor

Dire rutabagas.

>>48623765
And the Baneblade was a light tank but the Predator was an MBT.

Take everything with a grain of salt in 40k, especially shit they talk about in the DAoT.

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Tractors are used for a lot of stuff. Transporting goods, pulling farm equipment. It's not so much that they were farming anything particularly massive back then, but the yields, the distances needed to be covered,and the size of equipment must have been much larger than we're used to.

>>48623863
Unfortunately we have a source for the predator bit, but none for the baneblade bit.

>>48623863
It's still bothering me. I-really- want to know.

>>48623866
Then why the hell did it have guns?

>>48623765
It's mentioned that the main chassis was a tractor. Given the variable nature of the DAoT, we can assume that it was not the only tractor floating about, and wasn't given a bunch of Plasteel plates or guns, or even the same engine for its purpose.

That being said, they were totally farming the self-repairing corpses of the Men of Iron.

>>48623906
>>48623863
I thought Preds were based off of the Rhino chassis?

>>48623936
Or they farmed orks to create Greenskin Salad.

>>48623928
It didn't. They weren't farming with a tank. The chassis, engine, tracks, those sorts of things were the same or at least similar. The Space Marine Rhino was originally an exploration lander I think, and it was eventually modified over millennia into a troop carrier.

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>>48623765
Have you seen a grox? They're basically herding dragons.

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>mfw the fleshbags seriously believe this
>mw years later the prank is still going

>>48623940
Yes, the widespread exploration vehicle from the DAoT.

>>48623970
>The chassis, engine, tracks, those sorts of things were the same or at least similar.

Or so people always claim but nobody has ever provided a single source for Russes having anything to do with tractors.

it's probably just a reference to the fact that T-34's were built in a tractor factory during the Battle of Stalingrad, you know Gee Dubs likes to rip off history instead of being original, plus there is such a thing as an artillery tractor, often a battle tank with the weaponry removed and fitted to tow artillery and other big guns

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>>48624307
Nobody can prove a source from anything from the Dark Age of Technology.

It's a dark age

>>48623765
You're thinking of a different 40K tank. The Brunhilde.

>>48623963
Orks do that to themselves already.

Consider, they eat squigs.

>>48623765
>If the Leman russ was used in the Dark Age of Technology as a tractor

Quit spewing headcanon. Nowhere in all the fluff is it said that Leman Russ was a tractor or based on a tractor. In fact, Necrons and Tau praise the design of the Leman Russ ans say that the Admech is holding back its potential with their stupidity.

>>48623863
>Take everything with a grain of salt in 40k, especially shit they talk about in the DAoT.

You mean take what the fans say with an mountain of salt. People like OP are scum who mindlessly repeat what other scum said with no care about if its true or not.

>>48624601
I was making a joke fucktard. Us trying to speculate about what you'd be farming if you needed a tank to do so.

>>48624601
>In fact, Necrons and Tau praise the design of the Leman Russ ans say that the Admech is holding back its potential with their stupidity.

Can you give a source for that? I don't think I've ever read anything about Imperial technology from an alien's point of view. Seems interesting.

I think one of the Crons said the Russ design had so much potential, as they took them over and turned them against the Guard, can't remember where it was though

>>48624683
I remember that too, unfortunately I got the quote some 100 miles from me right now. It was one of the named characters taking over the Russ and noting that it was a fancy little thing, but its potentials were limited. I seem to remember a similar thing from a Tau POV, where they were looking over a Russ and said it had great tech, but underutilized.

End of the day, a multi-fuel engine, various high energy generators, main gun with autoloaders with range-finders, warning systems, etc. are not entirely WW1 in space.

>>48624370
>Not a reference to the first tanks using caterpillar tracks which tractors also used during the period

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>>48624683
>Can you give a source for that?
Yep, 5th edition necron codex

>>48624370
Maybe in Rogue Trader, when Russes didn't even exist yet.

Also, Stalingrad wasn't the only time T-34s were made in tractor factories. In the 30's the Russians hired the dude who made the automobile factories in Detroit to come and design factories for them with wartime production specifically in mind.

>>48623765
Predatory catgirls.

>>48624777
IIRC in the Farsight enclaves book some tau says "by the greater good the guela have a lot of tanks" when seeing an Imperial invasion force.

>>48625209
>>48624683
>>48624601
But the design of the Leman Russ is generally horrible.

It's built like one of those crappy interwar tanks.

>>48625209
What if the restrictions placed on the Leman Russ (and, presumably, ever other piece of equipment) are there to prevent it from being Chaos'd?

>>48625489
What would you like, an awesome tank that will last at best a hundred years or a decent tank that will last ten thousand?

>>48625522
If Chaos wants to chaos it, it'll get chaos'd anyway.
The fundamental rule of 40k is, that nothing is beyond Chaos' huge, oozing dick if a Chaosfag is writing the fluff.

>>48625522
That's more the reason some of the flaws in the design haven't been fixed, assuming they've been spotted - no-one wants to risk the fix pissing someone off or making the tank easier to corrupt.

>>48625489
>It's built to look like one of those crappy interwar tanks.

FTFY

It's like that one episode of Dominion Tank Police, where it's illegal to have modern day military tech, so the criminals get fancy tech stuffed into old ass looking tanks as not to rouse suspicion.

>>48625701
It's weird that even during the Great Crusade they couldn't make better Russes, during the time most of Imperial technology was made and none of the Admech insanity existed.

>>48624601
>Nowhere in all the fluff is it said that Leman Russ was a tractor or based on a tractor.
I really don't know where this wrong idea come from. I would have understand if that was about the Rhino, who was at some point of the game described as a multi-purpose chasis adaptable to any role from from tractors to mobile lab with the right fitting. But the Russ?

>>48625756
>and none of the Admech insanity existed.
Mechanicum insanity was just as bad, if not worse (you know, seeing as at least half of them, including the Fabricator-General, turned to chaos) - they still had the machine spirits and didn't share data with each other

>>48625889
They also were far more open to experimentation, innovation and thinking outside the box, which is how they could make 6 power armour variants and at least 5 terminator armour variants, plus the lineage of assault cannons, storm shields, etc. can be traced back to the Crusade and Heresy. Not much since then.

So why didn't anyone take a look at the Russ and go "oh, right, disengage the parking break, of course." It being shit in the 41st millennium is understandable and no one wanting to mess with it, but it's equally shit in 30k as well. Even the Malcador has souped up engines and shield generators.

>>48626033
There's more fun stuff to be doing, I guess

>>48625621
It's not like there's anything wrong with Chaos being a corrupting force.

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>>48623765
Wild turnips.

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>>48623765
Of course they farmed orcs. That is how they got all the XP and gold for their upgrades.

>>48624683
5th ED Necron Codex, the story after Anrakyr's entry.

The WD that came with the Tau 3th ED release.

>>48624667
>I-I was just pretending to be retarded! You're the real retard!
>>48624601
Discussing 40k lore here is fucking impossible because what people think is canon is often a corruption of a meme that was a knee jerk reaction against another meme that was based on some obscure bit of Oldhammer dross that doesn't make any sense in the context of the current lore

>>48626564
Reading comprehension, learn it.

>>48625394
That isn't really a reaction to the design of the russ, just the quantity of them.

>>48626905
Sorry brah, doesn't work like that. The way your question was phrased strongly implies you think it was used as a tractor. "What the hell were they farming? Orcs?" makes it sound like you believe it was used as such and have trouble understand why you'd use one in that role. If you were asking a hypothetical question, you wouldn't have included it. Either you're not a native English speaker (in which case I'm sorry for giving you shit), or you genuinely believed the tractor thing (probably from taking someone else's joke literally) and are doing this to save face.

>>48623765
do any wonk nerds know what LR's use as fuel??

>>48627054
Everything, literally it's part of their fluff that whatever vaguely fuel like substance you throw in their engines will work.

>>48627049
I'm not a native English Speaker.

>>48627089
very cool. so i m guessing shit like ethanol and promethium

>>48624777
Neat that they'd point that out, because it's pretty true. On top of the exposed tracks and other obvious shit, it's actually less armored than a modern MBT

>>48627112
Liquids, yes. It's a piston driven multi-fuel, like all Imperial tank engines. So if it's liquid and it burns, the Russ and various other tanks can most likely run on it.

>>48627112
Yeah, but literally anything can work - I'm sure there was one example of them using corpses, just burning them

>>48625701
I've always justified it that they might be able to make a better tank , but they don't understand the more autonomous parts of the production enough to change it without risking breaking it and end up with a broken factory making no tanks.

I remember that there was once a bit of fluff that making a Hellhound, a flame throwing Chimera derivative, required taking a fully battle ready Chimera from the end of the assembly line and partially tear it down and retrofit the flamethrowers in because they could't change it any earlier.

>>48627170
next Astra Militarum codex:

A Leman Russ squadron may choose to use Promethium fuel for 40pts, allowing them to move up to cruising speed (12'')

>>48627229
Oh great, some overpriced shit.

>>48627277
its not overpriced... 40 pts to upgrade your heavy tank squad so it can move 12'' and still fire all its shit... its shit like this that AM needs to be competitive.. the problem i have now is i cant score objectives... and iam a player that moves my huge blob squads forward on turn 1

>>48627307
>moving Russes

Just park them where you have a good LOS and blam the enemy. Blam them good.

>>48624601
Source on the Tau and necrons thinking the Russ is awesome? Curious

>>48627475
Sorry, posted before finishing the thread

>>48627170
I'm surprised they didn't use a turbine, then. Not only can it burn almost anything, but it has fewer moving parts.

>>48627614
>wants a whining turbine over a rumbling, smoke spewing diesel engine

>>48627307
It's 40pts to get a long range unit that dies in close combat or even being close to melta guns, closer to the enemy. It might be worth 10pts on a Demolisher or maybne even 20 to get Pask-punisher and friends into range to kill what needs to be dead. What guard needs to be competitive is more multi-shot weapons with high AP rather than large blasts to take care of MC/GCs and a decurion with impressive benefits to actually be highly competative. If you have a problem taking objectives get a taurox for something for 10 more points than you're plan, or go to fw for a centaur or a tauros or throw some storm troopers onto an objective, or throw a special weapon squad out of a vendetta at one, or even get a 5 man squad of >rough riders for 15 more points more, regardless, sacrificing ~190 points worth of tank to get 1 malestrom objective would not be a good idea.

>>48627614
Fuel economy on turbines is shit, from lasguns/pistols/cannons/multilasers to the engines in their vehicles a lot of guard's equipment is defined by how little a logistical footprint they leave.

>>48627742
Makes sense when you're arming bazillions of soldiers over an entire galaxy.

>>48627347
not everyone is a gunline fag
>>48627699
but you see a squad of 3 exterminators (autocannon) Russes w/ multimelta sponsons, and heavy flamers is great close range fire support... 40 pts to upgrade this squad would be worth it m8, so they could reach the center of the table fast and begin to dish it out... much like the eldar. not every parks their shit... nor do we want to rely on models that dont exist (rough riders) and overpriced valkeries,

>>48628395
shit, i'll take it a step furthur.. now this might be the caffeine talking, but check this:

if i was the faggit writing the next codex i would include that a 10 man squad of guardsmen may ride on top of the Leman Russ-- essentially turning it into a transport. Once they are embarked they cound as being in an open topped vehicle. the Russ may not shoot however. combine this with Promethium fuel and you have the Russes ferrying the guardsmen to the center of the board

IG goes from being low tier shit army to #1 bestest in world

inb4 faggot, retard

>>48624307
Don't have it on me but IIRC that might come from a piece at the back of the 3rd ed rulebook.

>>48628446
I'm sure you could do this at one point.... maybe Cities of Death

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>>48628539
ahhh, you mean back from when this game was fun??

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>>48628446
Nah fuck all that, just give the tank the venerable special rule but every time it rerolls a rider dies.

>>48628446
If Russes could do this, why have Chimeras?

>>48628757
because if you only want to rock fast troops without paying the tax of Leeman Russ + Promethium fuel....

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>>48627742
The fuel economy on the Russ seems pretty shit anyway, if pic related is anything to go on.

>>48628757
Because carrying troops on the back of a tank isn't as safe. The tank can't fight while troops are onboard. The troops aren't protected from small arms fire so the tank can't carry them anywhere near combat.

Troops mounting tanks was just an ad-hoc measure to help bring troops to the front lines. Totally different role from an armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle.

Realistically, a leman Russ carrying troops on the back wouldn't even happen on the scale of a 40k battlefield. That would just maybe happen on a logistical level, not in combat

>>48625489

It has that kind of aesthetic, but that doesn't mean it functions like them. You also have to take into consideration that the vehicles are sculpted in heroic scale and the sculptors are likely not versed in actual military vehicle design.

The aesthetic serves a few purposes. It conveys the ruggedness that most Imperial vehicles are known for, it contrasts with what the Imperium used to have access to and the higher level of technology that more elite parts of it make use of, and by sticking a vehicle that looks like it came out of WW1/WW2/the modern day so far in the future, it creates something unique. Futuristic tanks nowadays are all rounded, smooth, and possibly hover.

>>48625756

The Imperial Army was basically subordinate to the Legions during the Great Crusade. Doesn't make a lot of sense to focus on improving their stuff when you could be working on pumping out better things for the Legions.

It is said though that on the whole the Imperial Army was better equipped than the current Guard with things considered rare now being more common.

Also I think a lot of what is known about Imperial Army technology comes from the FW HH books and in that regard it was kind of a spontaneous things. Supposedly the Solar Auxilia were originally just someone's pet project that was deemed cool and got turned into a full fledged range that gained a bit more prominence in the lore. The Imperial Militia is basically the equivalent of a PDF.

>>48624467
>tfw everyone ignored this.

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>>48624601
The level of salt in this thread is amazing. As is the level of anal retentive autists.

>>48630943
Welcome to Carnac threads.

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>>48630989
Where we're going, we don't need intelligence.

>>48629542
>Realistically

thankfully 40k is governed by the rule of cool, bud

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>>48623765
>If the KV 1's suspension was copied from American Caterpillar bulldozers in the 20's, what the hell were they bulldozing? Panzers?

Yes, that is a thing that happened.

Yes, it worked. Not great but then again Soviets were never really known for their craftsmanship.

No need to reinvent the wheel if it already works. And can run on almost anything you can burn. And is stupidly easy and cheap to repair or build.

So yeah, having a tank that may have been built on the chassis of a tractor makes perfect sense provided the tractor was heavy enough duty to work. Wouldn't be the first time a civilian concept was adapted to military use.

So in reality, the base vehicle was probably capable of hauling or towing very heavy loads, not to mention functioning as a bulldozer or possibly even as the basis for construction vehicles. If the chassis can already handle a lot of weight, has good towing capacity, and is reliable, that's a great basis for a tank already. You already know it'll handle the load of the armor and gun, already know it can help tow a bogged down or disabled tank, and it can easily be repaired in the field.

Not to mention these "tractors'' were being used on extremely harsh planets with a wide range of gravity, atmospheres, and temperatures. They'd need to be quite a bit tougher than anything we would use in the present day.

>>48631055
>>48630989
>Calling out headcanon is Carnacing

Fuck off.

>>48632921
It's literally Carnac, no one else calls those that get 40k fluff "wrong" liars or holds them with such contempt.

>>48632953
>"wrong"

Are you implying that you agree that the Leman Russ is based on a tractor?

>>48626033
Probably because those limits were placed on it to prevent Chaos from fucking shit up.
>By flipping this switch right next to the engine we can activate the active protection system giving the Leman Russ a 3+ invulnerable save
>Unfortunately it works like an anti-Gellar field
>What the fuck does that mean?
>It summons daemons in front of incoming munitions to take the hit, with bigger daemons for bigger threats
Fire a Volcano Cannon at a Leman Russ and summon Khorne himself to the material realm.

>>48623866

I'm sorry, please tell me that somebody played that army.

>>48629516
>Unstabilized gun
>Demolisher cannon
>1000 meter effective range
Jesus Christ, what would be the effective range of a Vanquisher cannon if it was actually stabilized, 100,000 meters?

>>48623765
Dice+2d6

>>48633025

>Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, and especially Orks improve the designs of their stuff and seek to expand the potential of their arms and gear
>Nothing happens except the production of powerful and effective weapons and wargear

>Humans shun improving their weapon systems and gear
>the fans : It's not because they are dumbasses. It's because they will explode into DAEMONS

Human apologists please go.

>>48623906

>>48633049
Necron tech is effectively magic, they know exactly what they are doing. Most Dark Eldar advances amount to medicine, poisons, or drugs. Orks don't give a shit about daemons, just more stuff to fight, their shit does sometimes explode into daemons and they travel through the warp unprotected. Tau are literally the least advanced faction in the setting, their supposedly highly advanced main battle tank is less armoured and less lethal than a Leman Russ Vanquisher while having nowhere near the variants.

>>48633049
>and yet, somehow with all those xeno improvements, human tech is still even with them

Checkmate xenos

>>48633129
I don't think so.

A single riptide decimated a battalion of Admech Leman Russes and a Baneblade. The Magos in the Baneblade had a nervous breakdown and started pulling on his cybernetics in horror and frustration over the Riptide casually killing his tanks one by one.

The level Imperial tech is not really what matters. It's their near-endless numbers.

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The "Leman Russ was a tractor" thing is old, but I've never been able to track it down. It could've come from someone's headcanon that everybody bought into back when there were so few websites that we tended to believe things on the internet.

But I'll defend the Leman Russ anyway.

STC is all about making it easy for backwater colonies to make modern equipment, including for defense. That means ease of construction is a high priority, higher than, say, armor effectiveness - and that's a strong incentive to use the same chassis design for a bunch of things, like mechanized artillery and tractors. Note that tractors aren't just farm equipment. The terms applies to haulers in general, including tank recovery vehicles.

Point is, DAoT core worlds should be building tanks that look more like Eldar Falcons, while "the provinces" make do with simple, blocky things that shoot well, still protect their occupants from infantry and smaller vehicles, and can be maintained by someone who doesn't understand science and engineering. In the age of the Imperium, that's pretty much everyone.

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>>48633089
>their supposedly highly advanced main battle tank is less armoured and less lethal than a Leman Russ Vanquisher while having nowhere near the variants.

Seeing that in Mont'ka, that featured one of the largest tank battles ever fought by the Imperium, the Tau tanks were outnumbered many times over but still managed to hold off the Imperial tank formations and score victories until the Tau final victory in the war, I say Hammerhead > Leman Russes.

>>48633226
>Point is, DAoT core worlds should be building tanks that look more like Eldar Falcons, while "the provinces" make do with simple, blocky things that shoot well, still protect their occupants from infantry and smaller vehicles, and can be maintained by someone who doesn't understand science and engineering. In the age of the Imperium, that's pretty much everyone.

FW lore says that the predator might have been the main tank of the DAoT.

>>48624467
>>48629907
>tfw everyone STILL ignored this.

>>48623765
They use de-weaponised tanks as tractors in The Ukraine and a few other former Soviet Union nations.

>>48629516
Dude, that fuel consumption is amazingly good for a tank. A litre per kilometer? Modern tanks get gallons to the mile.

>>48633014
That's not how stabilizer s work. They improve accuracy on the move, not overall effective range.

>>48633305
>Seeing that in Mont'ka

Stop right there - Mont'ka and Kauyon were written to make the Tau look awesome and the Imperial forces act like complete morons at every turn.

>>48629889
>Doesn't make a lot of sense to focus on improving their stuff when you could be working on pumping out better things for the Legions.

Army had rhinos, land raiders, speeders, etc. At least they did. Of course FW's not going to rock the 40k themes of Marines having Marine shit and Army just being Guard. Because dear lord if we'd actually get proper Imperial Army with wild and exotic weapons, anti-grav tanks, land raiders, etc. that has been in the fluff for ages before 30k became an actual thing. The fact that even the SA, the top tier part of the Army who are second only to the Marines, only get 19th century diving suits and WW1 tanks, makes me very weary of the fact that Army proper will be nothing more than Codex: IG with new names and some special rules thrown in.

>>48632891
>Soviets were never really known for their craftsmanship.

Having superior master-crafted tanks did not save the Germans. Soviets put good effort into their war machine. They had calculated that from the time a tank rolled out of the factory to when it's a smoldering ruin is about six months. 14 hours in combat. They had no reason to make the tanks live longer than that. All those resources could be put to making more tanks. As I remember, the cost of a T-34 halved during the war as they found ways to simplify and make it more cost effective.

>>48632981
>Fire a Volcano Cannon at a Leman Russ and summon Khorne himself to the material realm.

Only because the focusing crystals in the Volcano Cannon are made from crystallized heretics.

>>48633049
>Necrons, Dark Eldar, and especially Orks improve the designs

[citation needed]

Necrons are still using mostly War in Heaven era equipment, even stuff dating to a time before that. Necron lords are a bunch of old grognards who have no interest in anything but honorabre combat and pompous speeches to their zombie hordes.

DE ride into battle in pleasure barges and gladiator bikes like a bunch of Mad Max villains. Orks just take shit form others, slap it together and they're done. Ones that actually get to make something new are a rare breed and even then it's often just a bigger version of something that's already been done.

>the fans : It's not because they are dumbasses. It's because they will explode into DAEMONS

In the Daemon codex they mention a planet that had such good medical tech they eradicated all pathogens from their planet. End result? Daemon incursion.

>>48633305
And during WW2 a Soviet T-70 was able to take out two Panthers. I say T-70 > Panther.

Daily reminder that Tau pilots are also better than Eldar and Necron ones.

>>48629516
An abrams with it's gas turbine gets through 6.3 litres per mile, (or 3.9 litres per km (goint on *5 divide by 8)), 1 litre per km is pretty damn good.

>>48633014
Demolisher cannon is a massive howitzer for siege works, so there really no need to even stabilize it. Pretty sure your basic battle cannons, etc. are stabilized. Doubt even marine vindicators have their cannons stabilized.

>>48633226
leman russ is a tractor thing is widespread fan misunderstanding.

the actual tractor tanks are the seigfired light tank and burnhild apc that the death korp used in epic instead of sentinels and chimeras.

>>48634916

There likely will not be a proper Imperial Army, you have Solar Auxilia and Imperial Militia. There is nothing more they could really do differently. Not to mention Marines and Mechanicum seem more popular than the aforementioned. Likely FW will do Dark Mechanicum too.

It also doesn't really matter if the Army had stuff in the older lore since they're ultimately not important and can be discarded or ignored.

>>48635600
>There likely will not be a proper Imperial Army, you have Solar Auxilia and Imperial Militia. There is nothing more they could really do differently.

SA is the top tier of the Army and Militia is the PDF. We don't have the middle of the road Army regiments in any shape or form. And they've talked about a regular army list coming at some point.

>It also doesn't really matter if the Army had stuff in the older lore since they're ultimately not important and can be discarded or ignored.

Yet if FW doesn't do old HH Marine fluff justice, people lose their shit.

>>48634916
A dracosan is just as much a WW1 tank as a Land Raider. Also one of the imperial militia provinces gives you access to them for their grenadiers.

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>>48635659
>A dracosan is just as much a WW1 tank as a Land Raider.

Yes, truly the dracosan envoces the look of Space Marines when you gaze upon it.

>one of the imperial militia provinces gives you access to them for their grenadiers.

And makes power armoured dudes mandatory Troops. It's like you can't step inside a Land Raider without a power armour, or else the machine spirit will get mad.

>>48635003
>[citation needed]

Szeras improves on Necron gear and bodies (Source the 5th ED codex).

Necron crypteks are doing research and invent new stuff. The Broken Mirrors from the FW necron book and the Warp scope from FFG are examples. Clearly you being ignorant on the subject.

>DE ride into battle in pleasure barges and gladiator bikes like a bunch of Mad Max villains.

They have mad scientists covens are are constantly producing new techno-magics all the time. Open their 7th ED codex and supplement.

>Orks just take shit form others, slap it together and they're done. Ones that actually get to make something new are a rare breed and even then it's often just a bigger version of something that's already been done.

Wrong.

Check the Beast series. The Orks technological evolution acculturated as their Waaagh! went on. Eventually, they gained Grav manipulation that surpassed anything the Imperium ever seen.

>In the Daemon codex they mention a planet that had such good medical tech they eradicated all pathogens from their planet. End result? Daemon incursion.

In the same book, two Imperial planets stopped their hundred year civil war and embraced peace. You know what the end result? They angered Khorne who committed a wide scale genocide on both planets.

Are you saying that to avoid the wrath of Khorne we should keep every planet in the Imperium in a constant state of civil war, or are you going grow a brain and admit that it was a freak accident caused by the fickleness of the Chaos Gods. The chaos Gods don't need a reason to fuck up the mortal world, they will find any justification.

>>48635764
>Szeras improves on Necron gear and bodies
>Necron crypteks are doing research and invent new stuff.

And how much has this affected the Necrons as a faction since the War in Heaven? They're still mostly the same metal skeletons riding in corpse carts.

>They have mad scientists covens are are constantly producing new techno-magics all the time.

Yet they're still haven't figured out the technology of military vehicles, rather than cruising to war on pleasure barges full of gladiators.

Truly the scientific and military genius of our time.

>Eventually, they gained Grav manipulation that surpassed anything the Imperium ever seen.

And where is this awesome tech now? Why is the bulk of their military still a bunch of burly hooligans with homemade guns and rusty knives?


Ragnarok, Brunhilde and Siegfried tanks, Macharius tanks, Centurions, Stormravens, various ship designs, etc. All new inventions created by the Imperium. Truly nothing new is being made there.

>Nurgle and Khorne intentionally punish the worlds for going against their ideals
>a freak accident

Sure.

>>48635764
>implying the chaosgods need any justfication to try to fuck shit up for anyone they want

>>48635822
>And how much has this affected the Necrons as a faction since the War in Heaven? They're still mostly the same metal skeletons riding in corpse carts.

Irrelevant point. The fact that you have been proven wrong. The Necron Crypteks are conducting research and improving on their existing gear or inventing new superweapons like the Broken Mirror.

So one down.

>Yet they're still haven't figured out the technology of military vehicles, rather than cruising to war on pleasure barges full of gladiators.

Because the Covens keep a monopoly on the good stuff and sell their most advanced and potent weapons to the rich kabals that can afford them. The codex and supplement underline the advancements of the Dark Eldar covens in their genetic and celestial research.

Two down.

>And where is this awesome tech now? Why is the bulk of their military still a bunch of burly hooligans with homemade guns and rusty knives?

It's still here but scattered all over the place befcause the Orks have no organization at all. Open the read up on the inventions of Orkimedius.

Three down.

>Sure.

Yes, due to the fickleness of Chaos and their madness, they can strike anywhere for any reason. To conform to what they consider their ideals is madness itself. With your stupid logic, you would have Imperial planets in a state of self inflicted war, disease, mutations, and degeneracy to avoid angering Chaos but it won't work because they are going to attack anyways because they are Chaos.

>>48635659
would it be heresy to make the tank lower to the ground, and place the threads under instead of around the hull?

>>48635823
That's what I am seeing. The other guy says that medical research is bad because Nurgle attack one planet for it at one time.

It's like saying having stable peaceful Imperial worlds is bad because Khorne attacked two peaceful worlds that one time.

Very retarded.

>>48635899
saying*

>>48635896
Fucking Heteteks, think they can improve already flawless STC tech >:(

>>48623765
And why can't the leman russ tow anything worth towing?

File: Szeras page.png (2MB, 772x1058px) Image search: [Google]

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Posting lore about Xenos resaeracing and inventing stuff to shame the Imperials.

Staring with Szeras who loves to augment and improve Necron weaponry and gear. Taking inspiration from his bisected victims.

>>48635885
I think you're missing the other anon's point, here. Or rather, he's not explaining it as well as he could.

The point is the Imperium IS performing research and improving its equipment in isolated instances. But virtually any time something important is discovered it's destroyed by Chaos or something else goes wrong.

Really, the generally grim-darkness of the setting makes the Imperium seem far more retarded than it actually is. It's just really, really unlucky, which is, in essence, what the Imperium is an exercise in, "what would Humanity to if practically anything it did other than bleed itself to survive went horribly wrong?"

>>48635967
>Szeras
>Literally a character from by far the most advanced and scientifically intelligent faction
>Probably the most intelligent of all of them

Szeras blows everyone the fuck out of the water. Tau, Eldar, other Necrons.

>>48635984
Well, he is not explaining it well. What seems to me that he is ignoring the lore which has other races innovating without any warp explosion.

If he is argiung that the Imperium does innovate, then he is wrong. Right in the Admech codex it says that the Admech foundation of knowledge are built on lies, and also they have lost the ability to truly innovate.

This points that Admech retardation is the prime cause of Imperial tech lagging behind and stagnating, not because Chaos is waiting right around the corner.

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>>48636001
I dunno. Orikan seems to be as intelligent. He is one step ahead of Szeras in the god business.

>>48635967
The Blood Vats of Zantragora. A place where Necrons are researching their return to flesh. Progress is very slow but its proceeding.

>>48636031
>Ignoring the lore which has other races innovating without any Warp explosion

To be fair:
>Tau aren't messing with any of the characteristically dangerous tech of 40k yet, their AI is incredibly primitive compared to the late DAoT, they don't have to worry about Psykers or Warptech because they're going to have little time understanding it in the first place and their Warp-presence is too low to really register on the scale.
>Necrontyr have already gone through their dangerous tech-phase and are, most likely, the most technologically intelligent race, alongside being the most advanced, never working with anything to do with the Warp other than explicitly anti-Warp stuff
>Eldar have long since mastered the psychic arts of hiding and defending oneself from the ambient nature of Chaos

It's more complex than "making a new machine means Chaos happens." But it happens to the Imperium a lot through their destabilised technological base alongside the workings of Chaos, who love to pick on Humans above all else, being their main source of food, opposition and all.

>Right in the Admech codex it says that the Admech foundation of knowledge are built on lies, and also they have lost the ability to truly innovate.

And yet we have lots of examples of improvements and innovations that the Adeptus Mechanicus have performed. We have plenty of instances of Xenotech being researched, analysed and picked to pieces within the Magos Xenologis. We have sources suggesting that the AdMech, or at least the higher tiers understand physics perfectly well, they just have trouble applying their scientific knowledge to anything more advanced than the basic technology they're working with.

>>48636048
Orikan may-or-may not actually be a C'tan shard in hiding, that being said, yeah, he seems to be on a similar level to Szeras. Either way, these two basically dominate the higher scale of 40k scientists.

>>48636102
>Orikan may-or-may not actually be a C'tan shard in hiding

I doubt it considering that in the days of flesh, Orikan was the only guy who spoke against the biotransference and cautioned the Silent King about the price they had to pay for it.

>>48636048
>993.M41 A DARK EXPERIMENT

>By chance, Illuminor Szeras captures a Culexus Assassin during a surprise incursion against a Chaos-held world. Szeras, fascinated by his subject and hungry for further specimens, ensures word reaches the Imperium of the event. The High Lords of Terra do not disappoint, and despatch an Execution Force to destroy the Cryptek.

>987.M41 WELL OF TIME

>Orikan the Diviner devises a way to better study his enemies. Trapping the Obsidian Glaives 7th Company in a chrono-loop, the Cryptek sends warriors against them and observes the results with curiosity. For the Space Marines, it is a battle that rages on in a day that neither begins nor ends.

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>>48623765
Communists.

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>>48636142
Toholk the Blinded. An infamous Necron inventor who created many of the Necrons wwar engines.

Though he is blind and mad now, he is still inventing new technologies and refining. His new invention is the Smoking Mirror (Not broken mirror got it confused with something else).

>>48625804
If anything the chimera is a tractor tank

>>48636199
>The Gauntlet of the Conflagrator

>Crafted by the Cryptek Harri’apt the Conflagrator, this gauntlet uses interdimensional energy-exchangers to open a microscopic conduit to the raging heart of a star. The superheated plasmic flame that erupts through this hole is forced down a cone of hyperdense gravitons that spew the energy forth in a blazing split-second cloud of unstoppable fury.

>The Nightmare Shroud

>This heavy cloak of living-metal scales was forged by Ut-Hekneth the Unsleeping during his million-year madness. The cloak itself is virtually indestructible, each scale formed from quantum-folded layers of void-hardened adamantium bonded with a hyper-flexible energy weave. This is a by-product of its primary design however, which is to project the worst excesses of Ut-Hekneth’s madness, assailing nearby enemies with phantasms of dread as potent as any mortal danger.

I think I proved my point about xenos innovation. Do I need open up the Ork and DE dexes to pick up examples from there?

>>48636236
chimera isn't a tractor either.

>>48631677
Was just answering anon who asked what the point of chimeras would be.

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>>48636455

>>48636236
No. Stop it. not all tracked vehicles are fucking tractors.

>The M1A2 Abrams is a tractor tank
>The T-90 is a tractor tank too
>The BMP-3 is a tractor tank

>>48632891
>>48634943
just as a reminder, at the beginning of the invasion, no german tank was equipped with suffiicient weaponry to face KV and t-34 tanks

>>48636641
>The M1A2 Abrams is a tractor tank
Well, you call that one the M1 Armored Recovery Vehicle.

>>48635885
>I'm right and you're wrong because I say so

G8 deb8 m8.

The fact that you couldn't disprove Admech constantly inventing new things that have a tangible effect on the armies of the Imperium, your claim that Imperium can't nor won't do any research because of "hurr dem kayos" is bullshit. You should stop reading 40k memes and read some fluff. Sure, individual aliens invent nice things that barely anyone gets to use. Meanwhile Imperium is pumping out new ship designs, weapons, tanks, etc. that go into general use around the Imperium.

"Oh noes, Imperium is such backwards and can't invent shit while aliens are constantly bringing out new, innovative creations to show their superiority." What a load of bull. Only aliens actually flooding the battlefield with new and improved creations are the Tau.

>>48635899
No, what I'm saying is that when you make new things and it turns to daemons, at some point you just start to think about what you're doing.

Remember, this is a world where merely writing theories about Chaos on paper can cause the pages to become corrupt. Where AI has subjugated humanity and continues to be a problem (Dreadclaws, knights/titans, etc.) You do not want to disregard safety and go balls deep into shit.

>>48636963
>The fact that you couldn't disprove Admech constantly inventing new things that have a tangible effect on the armies of the Imperium, your claim that Imperium can't nor won't do any research because of "hurr dem kayos" is bullshit

Learn reading comprehension. I am disputing that the regression of Imperial technology is because of Chaos.

>. You should stop reading 40k memes and read some fluff. Sure, individual aliens invent nice things that barely anyone gets to use.

Tell that to yourself. The Cult Mech codex is clear. The Admech DO NOT truly innovate. They lost that ability long ago.

> Meanwhile Imperium is pumping out new ship designs, weapons, tanks, etc. that go into general use around the Imperium.

Not innovation.

>Only aliens actually flooding the battlefield with new and improved creations are the Tau.

And Dark Eldar, Orks, and Necrons.

I already proved that by posting many examples from the Nexron sources. Szeras invented THOUSANDS of new techs and upgrades for the Necrons, for example.

>Ultimately, though, the Cult’s citadels of knowledge are built upon a foundation of lies. The ability to truly innovate has long been lost, replaced with a reverence for the times when Humanity was the architect of its own destiny. No longer the master of its creations, the Cult Mechanicus is enslaved to the past. It maintains the glories of yesteryear with rite, dogma and edict instead of discernment and comprehension. Even the theoretically simple process of activating a weapon is preceded by the application of ritual oils, the burning of sacred resins and the chanting of long and complex hymns. And yet so long as the process works – or rather, so long as the Cult’s armies can obliterate those who displease them – the Tech-Priests are content to tread the slippery path toward entropy and ignorance.

-The 7th ED Cult Mech dex

Read it and weep. Nowhere does the two Admech codexes blame Chaos for the regression and backward decline of Imperial science and tech. The blame is thrown solely on the Admech organization.

>>48637224
>The Cult Mech codex is clear. The Admech DO NOT truly innovate.

Yet the fluff is full of examples of new technology not all even tied to STC. So go figure.

>Not innovation.

Then I guess we can ignore all cases where aliens improve their tech and invent new things as well, because that's not innovation either.

>And Dark Eldar, Orks, and Necrons.

Care to name a few that are not special one-time super weapons of the week?

>Szeras invented THOUSANDS of new techs and upgrades for the Necrons, for example

Not innovation, I hear.

>>48624667
Good joke, many laughs

>>48637312
>Yet the fluff is full of examples of new technology not all even tied to STC. So go figure.

Not true innovation. See >>48637258

>Then I guess we can ignore all cases where aliens improve their tech and invent new things as well, because that's not innovation either.

No fluff is present to dispute or discredit xenos innovation. There is zero fluff that says the xenos races have long ago lost the ability to truly innovate.

>Care to name a few that are not special one-time super weapons of the week?

Szeras three named innovation in his page.

Orkemedius co-work on a bioengineered suit of armour. It can be worn by any Ork warboss.

>Not innovation, I hear.

Proofs?

File: M1A2 operational range according to wikipedia.png (4KB, 278x74px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48634106
>>48635041

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>>48637368
>Not true innovation.

Of course not, otherwise you'd have to consider other stuff besides one paragraph in a codex, Carnac.

>Proofs?

Sure, here: >>48637224

>>48637499
Not innovation. The Admech codex is clear on the matter. You think you know more than the developers who made the game/setting? What arrogance.

>>48637368
Another example for the Orks.

>In the year 997.M41 Ghazghkull allied with the most infamous Bad Moon Warlord in many millennia – Nazdreg Ug Urdgrub. The two leaders field-tested innovative ‘tellyporta’ technology – the ability to send mobs of Boyz, vehicles, and ultimately, even the mountainous Gargants from a far distant space hulk down onto a planet. This was tested on the Imperial planet of Piscina IV. Only the Dark Angels saved that world from being overrun, but victory there was not Ghazghkull’s real goal. His preparations were now over – he was ready to unleash his full force upon the Imperium, exercising a plan fifty years in the making...

>>48637460
Is that like on standard driving or going full tilt in rough terrain?

>>48623829
Kek

>>48637546
Sure, Carnac, sure.

>>48637584
And to top it off....

New fluff trumps old fluff which should go without saying.

>>48637564
doesn't specify unfortunately, though the mobility section of the article does give an alternate range of 205 miles or about 330 kilometers, so that might be toward the lower end of how far it can go.

>>48637460
It has a bigger fuel tank, not better fuel efficiency.
>>48629516
Shows that a Russ can go an extra 100km on an extra 100l of fuel

Your pic says that an Abrams can go 426km on 1900l of fuel.

Do some maths.

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>>48637601
Come on, don't stop now, say more stuff Carnac would say.

>>48637630
I was mostly trying to point out the differences in operational ranges, I am aware of the fuel consumption. The Leman would have a pretty impressive operational range if the fuel tank wasn't so tiny.

I would also like to point out the picture we're both referencing says "auxiliary tanks," plural, so the fuel efficiency is probably closer to two liters per kilometer, not one.

>>48637707
I want to nibble on Illic's delicious ears and bask in his brooding manliness.

<3

>>48629516
Is he sitting in the turret? How do they load shells?
>>48635041
>>48634106
The Abrams uses 10 gallons of fuel just to start, because as >>48627742 turbines are shit at fuel consumption.

>>48637817
>How do they load shells?
>"automatic loader; automatic shell ejector system"

Dunno, lol.

>>48629516

These measurements don't make sense given that the tank would have to fight on planets with different gravity/atmospheres.

>>48632973
Yes. They were made on a Agriworld that Leman Russ saved near the end of the Great Crusade. The populace was scrambling to build a new weapon to bolster the Loyalists so they augmented their tractors and named them to honor their savior.

>>48623863
Logically that should be the case, a Baneblade supposedly weighs 100 tons (which is absurd, it would be more like 750+) however a Predator should be comparable in size or even bigger; a Predator has a crew of up to 5 armored Space Marines. A Predator (and all variants) would be massive if it could carry that many.

>>48637871
>planets with different gravity/atmospheres

Oh anon, those don't exist in pulp scifi. Every planet is an M class planet. Unless it's convenient to the plot.

>>48637877
You better source dat.

>>48637927

What's the point of using power armor inside a tank?

>>48637988
Because when a Tau railgun hits your tank and creates an extreme air vacuum through the 1 inch exit hole, the marines won't be turned to gore smoothies as they get sucked out.

>>48625216
Ford worked for the Nazis tho

>>48629516

Do they still use fucking gasoline/kerosene/benzene? Why not hidrogen cells, electrical, nuclear batteries, or something else?

>>48637988
In case it blows up around them
If something pens it and splatters the inside with shrapnel
If something pens it but loses enough energy in doing so to be stopped by another layer of armour

>>48637927
>Baneblade supposedly weighs 100 tons

Weight: 316 tonnes.
Length: 13.5m
Width: 8.4m
Height: 6.3m

Panzer VIII Maus:
Weight: 188 tonnes
Length: 10.2 metres
Width: 3.71 metres
Height: 3.63 metres

>a Predator should be comparable in size or even bigger; a Predator has a crew of up to 5 armored Space Marines. A Predator (and all variants) would be massive if it could carry that many.

How so? A rhino can transport 10 marines and has 1 crew. How is the predator using the same hull unable to fit a crew of 5?

Also, where do you get 5 as crew? I can only find references to 2. Driver and gunner.

>>48638029
Too bad they couldn't get a proper mass-production line going to save their lives.

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>>48637988
What's the point of helmets and kevlar inside a tank?

>>48629516

>24" are 1000 km.

What's the range for Battlecannon, Vanquishers and Tau railguns then?

>>48638059
Is that why nobody gave a shit that the dude was making stuff for them?

>>48637833
If he's in the turret wheres the auto loader? It's not behind the barrel, it not to the sides, and its not beneath it.
Its not in the picture

>>48638089
Coca-Cola, IBM, etc. were making stuff for the Nazis as well.

>>48638120
Maybe it's in the turret where the gun is, not visible to us in the picture?

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>>48638155

>>48638089
No-one gave a shit because he made factories with the Nazis before the US had entered the war, and after it had he built the US a fuckton of planes. He still ended up getting couped by one of his relatives and his faction purged from the company at the wars end though.

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>>48638155

>>48638085
>It can get 4 shots of in the time it takes a man to walk 1000km
Ranges from TT to fluff stats don't translate too well.

>>48638085
Battlecannon is 3km in only war Not sure about the others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NIaoOabF_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTGM1n8CYyQ

>>48638397
wow the inside of that tank looks like ass. Is the rammer supposed to look so wobbly?

>>48638528
If it gets the job done...

>>48635023
You must have mixed up you tanks... the T-70 was a light tank with a piddly 45mm gun, only good for scouting and discontinued in the middle of the war.

>>48635984
>The point is the Imperium IS performing research and improving its equipment in isolated instances.
Barely. They don't understand science. Their research consists of digging through old documents or praying.

They can improvise, which makes them about as good at "performing research" as orks.

>>48636031
>If he is argiung that the Imperium does innovate, then he is wrong. Right in the Admech codex it says that the Admech foundation of knowledge are built on lies, and also they have lost the ability to truly innovate.
That same Codex has a few instances of innovation and even specifically mentions a Forge World for being the leader of innovations in a certain tech field.

>>48638596
Nope. Alexander Pegov with his T-70 ambushed some German tanks. They destroyed a Panther and disabled another, before retreating.

>>48638681
Oh, but anon, that's not TRUE innovation.

>>48638681
It's either exception that proves the rule OR it's false innovation because the codex says they lost the ability for true innovation long ago.

>>48638723
Yep.

>>48638043
Because a true scale rhino would probably have to be the size of a land raider to fit 10 space Marines, 1-2 crew, and all their weapons and equipment.

>>48638963
Only if you're trying to fit 10 foot fanon marines.

>>48638085
The tabletop range is nowhere near to scale with the "real" range of the weapon. Otherwise, a bolter or lasgun or whatever can only shoot like 150 feet, or 50 yards, which even fucking muskets could do accurately.

>>48638991
Well, yeah. That's what I said. But even still, try and show me how 10 tabletop scale Marines can fit into the rhino. Might not be possible, but even if it is, you then have to remember that tabletop Marines are like, 6 feet tall. Fluff Marines are 8 feet tall.

>>48628446
There used to be some valhallan a you could toss on your leman Russ back in the day for that glorious space Commie aesthetic, maybe for every 5 guardsmen on your leman Russ it gets iwnd

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>>48639331
>try and show me how 10 tabletop scale Marines can fit into the rhino

Surely even you must realize that the models are not in equal proportions to one another.

>Fluff Marines are 8 feet tall.

7.

>>48629516
man you could bike faster than that thing.

>>48639947
Welcome to the world of infantry tanks, anon.

>>48638082

It could help if round penetrate and bounce around inside the hull. That and if you have to bail you're still in a battle field so having some armor is better then no armor.

>>48639947
It's not called a lumbering behemoth because it's swift and agile.

>>48639808
Is that guy 5'6? Where the hell do they find these manlets?

>>48633174
Source?

>>48640288
http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/the-patient-hunter-ebook.html

>>48633174
>tau owning without breaking a sweat

What else is new?

>"Most Tau team leaders and fighter aces have more experience than a whole squadron of other races’ pilots, all of which they turn to the pursuit of victory for the Tau’va."

Git gud, Eldar and Necrons, you're shit tier.

>>48633322
Why? The Sicaran is pretty much objectively better than the predator.

>>48636832
Which is hilarious because the Germans faced the exact same problem in France in 1940. There are a hilarious number of incidents of heavy and infantry tanks destroying dozens of German tanks in a single sortie simply because the Germans had no means of actually defeating the heavy armour of those tanks.

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>>48623765
>Dark Age of Technology as a tractor

Like, how?

>>48642159
Because the Sicaran did not exist when that statement was said. And because it's only good because the rules for it are superior. Just like how IG uses heavy bolters in the fluff even though autocannons are superior in rules.

>>48639808
But that's my point.

The argument they were having was whether a predator based on the same hull as the rhino could have a crew of 5 when the rhino carries 10. My point was just that vehicle sizes make zero sense because they are all way out of scale anyways.

>>48642790
In miniature form. Not in fluff form.

>>48626214
Anyone have this image but at a higher resolution? Would make a fantastic desktop background.

>>48642966
Well if a fluff marine is 7+ feet tall, the dimensions of a rhino are 6.6m long, 4.5m wide, and 3.6m high. That's almost 22 feet long, almost 15 feet wide, and 12 feet high.

If we look at the height of the tabletop rhino vs a tabletop marine, it looks to be about the right scale, with a rhino being just under twice as tall as a marine. So the tabletop rhino isn't that far off scale of the tabletop marine.

That's from the fluff dimensions of the rhino. It's still too small

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>>48624014

>>48643080
Proportions. Heroic proportions distort the body. Proper scale marines would also be far slimmer.

>>48643183
What proportions? What are the fluff proportions of a marine? If anything, the fluff Marines are even bigger than the tabletop ones.

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>>48624014
And the thing is, the infantry can cover it's back as well. Along with absorbing plasma gun shots.

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>>48643227
Are being stupid on purpose or what? You are aware that a heroic scale miniature blown up to real life size will look like a fat potato, right? And in reverse a real human shrunk into 28mm scale will be a weedy little stick figure in comparison.

Following so far?

Now take a real human and pump them into 7 foot hulks with power armour. Now shrink them into 28mm scale. They'll we far slimmer than a GW space marine.

>>48623765

Dude. Tanks make pretty good tractors because A: Treads usually have a lower ground pressure than tires, which means they don't compact dirt as much. and B: They have good traction and usually enough power to pull whatever you need.

The only reason wheeled tractors are more prevalent is because wheels are cheaper to maintain over the long run.

>>48643366
Yes the proportions of the infantry are off. But even relative sizes of vehicles are fucked up. Like a rhino is smaller than a chimera according to the dimensions. That makes zero sense. A rhino can carry 10 Marines and a chimera can carry 12 humans. Even at proper "realistic" proportions, a space marine is taking up probably twice the volume as a human. There's no way a rhino carrying 10+ Marines is a smaller vehicle than a chimera carrying 12 human soldiers.

>>48637717
>I would also like to point out the picture we're both referencing says "auxiliary tanks," plural, so the fuel efficiency is probably closer to two liters per kilometer, not one.
Replace the fixed fuel tank and instead attach more auxiliar tanks - the overall fuel efficiency will double!

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>>48643366
That's a big rifle.

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>>48644546
>a chimera can carry

12 Marines or 6 Terminators.

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>>48642159
The Sicaran isn't that old.

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>>48639808
What manner of manlet is that

>>48644578
Talking fluff not rules.

If you wanna go by rules that just makes it even more stupid. Marines are way bigger than a regular human so it doesn't make sense that the same amount could fit. Just like half the amount of terminators can fit compared to regular armored units.


I really don't get what you guys are arguing. It's obvious that the scale is beyond fucked up, and that geedubs has some logical issues with their vehicle designs. Fuck they can't even get the height of a warlord Titan straight.

>>48644748
If Rhinos are so massive, why doesn't one take a whole platoon of non-Marines inside it in the fluff?

>>48644790
Coming from /hhg/ I find it weird that the Imperial Militia can buy Rhinos and still only 10 men fit inside a transport that can accomodate 10 8' giants.
Then again, Rhinos were explorator tanks back on the DAoT. Probably fit regular men inside too.
What I'm saying is that is weird Rhinos can carry marines at all, considering it wasn't meant for them.

>>48644841
>7' giants

FTFY

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>>48644939
Let us settle it at ~7.5 ft including armour, shall we?

>>48645041
GW says 7. I'm not gonna argue about fanon.

>>48645198
>Implying all space Marines are 100% exactly the same height anyways
Also, if they are only 7 feet tall, then the tabletop minis aren't that far off scale to the guardsmen miniatures

>>48645511
Hey man, if 7 feet is the average, then for every 8 foot marine you also have a 6 foot marine.

>the tabletop minis aren't that far off scale to the guardsmen miniatures

Over a foot in height is quite noticeable. SM and IG models aren't that fat off from one another.

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>>48645198
>>48645621
>Hey man, if 7 feet is the average, then for every 8 foot marine you also have a 6 foot marine.
>Agreeing at 7.5 is akin to following fanon.
How do you feel about BL in general?

>>48645656
The moment GW puts a 7'6" marine on their front page, I will not argue.

Also, if you want to go with art, fusion blasters are machine guns and post-Heresy creations like the ironstrider were used during the Heresy, to name a few things.

>>48642998

Reverse image search it and click on the resolution. It shows all the possible resolutions of the image that exist on the net.

>>48625209
>>48624601
>Necrons and Tau praise the design of the Leman Russ ans say that the Admech is holding back its potential with their stupidity.

Prett much every imperial guard codex and every rulebook has said the Leman russ is simplistic so they can grind out millions of the things.

From the current codex.

"The tank’s rugged simplicity and ease of manufacture ensures that the Imperium
can field whole companies of Leman Russ with ease, burying the outnumbered foe beneath
waves of irresistible armoured fury."

>>48625756
They did, but the Legions were the main force during the Crusade and they got all the good stuff. When Guilliman seperated the Army from the marines post-Heresy, they got given the Russ because of it's reliability, ease of production, maintenance a,nd use meant it could serve in a wide variety of theatres andd with minimal supply infrastructure

>>48625889
>they still had the machine spirits

That came about during the age of technology so can't really be linked to not understanding tech. Technomancy confirms that there are machine-spirits, if you are implying there are no machine-spirits.

>>48650810
yea, and? the guard keep it simple for ease of construction, necrons who are used to superior, more efficient methods of construction consider that it could be so much more.

>>48644669
YOU SAVED MY OC! Thanks anon!

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>>48623765
>Ctrl + F 'bullets'
>0 matches

Come on guys.

>>48623765
I thought the Land Crawler was the 40k tractor..

>>48652380
It is.

they were lead farmers

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>>48652457

>>48623765
The current Leman Russ was not a tractor.

But a lot of the STC-based vehicles that the imperium use (rhinos and variants, like predators or whirlwinds, Landraiders, Leman Russ X tanks, Chimeras, Knights etc) were the creations of the Standard Template Construct systems. STC systems were originally meant to be a way of providing settlers of frontier worlds with anything they needed, in a way that they would be able to produce on-site. That's why they're all so chunky and overbuilt. They were NOT originally particularly advanced compared to what humanity had available, they were just something that settlers on worlds far away could whip up to get by. Need a rugged transport that protects you from hostile primitives or dangerous animals? Here are the plans for a rhino. good luck. Things like Knights were originally meant as combination warmachine and construction/logging vehicles (which is why they are manshaped and piloted through mind-link, a person could hop in and figure it out super fast since it's laid out like a human. You move by walking, you use your arms, you look around with your head, simple. The fact that it could handily stomp any animals or space indians was a bonus.

But millennia upon millenia of grimderpness have left the STC "make do in a pinch and won't break down any time soon" designs the pinnacle of technology, jealously guarded and zealously sought after. Ages of tradition, ritual, and cargo-cult worship has turned the knights from versatile do everything vehicles to instruments of war for the ruling classes of the knight worlds. The rhino, landraider and Leman Russ base chassis have been up armored and modified in bajillions of ways to fit more roles than they were intended for, because humanity doesn't have the will or the capability of building something better from scratch.

They didn't drive around with battlecannon on their tractors. But the tractors they used might well have shared a lot of anatomy with the leman russ.

>>48632891
/k/fag here. That's utter bs, the chassis and the suspension of KV-1 were actually ahead of their time and are now employed pretty much by everyone but the french in their Leclerc.
The tanks that have received their suspension straight out of caterpillars were the M3 Lee's and the early versions of the Shermans.

>>48651321
Technomancy is newlore bullshit though.

The machine spirit didn't use to be an actual ghost in the machine or wishful thinking magic,it was wishful thinking, misunderstood maintenance protocols turned into rituals and literally a brain in a jar that could control some functions of certain STC based vehicles like the landraider. In the old landraider diagram I think it was called a cyclops pattern machine spirit or something like that.

It's a little black pod that's hooked up to the weapon cams and the steering so that it can take over in a pinch.

That's why you have the fluff about stuff like really old space marine tanks going berserk without pilots or shouting battlecries over the comms when they're having nightmares and get put in stasis vaults or locked away in armories.

Technomagic not based on devices or chaos are just what we get when the people writing the new fluff just misunderstood the old fluff.

>>48652608
You guys are doing the classic mistake of mistaking weapon spirits for Machine Spirits and vice versa.

Machine Spirits are AI of the weapons and machines.

Weapon Spirits are the reflection of the weapons and machines in the Warp. If the weapon or machine killed enough lives, it will develop a true spirit and a sentience of its own.

>>48652628
>Weapon Spirits are...

...a line of crap they put into the CSM codex to be more edgy.

>>48628624
I like the subtle implication about the Russians, here.

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>>48652807
It works. Even in Iraq and Afghanistan troops tend to ride on top of their transports, because not only does it give them a good place to scout the surroundings and engage possible hostiles trying to toss a bomb or fire a rocket at them, but if hit, you're not trapped in a small confined space.

>>48652628

Pyskers are said to use their powers to connect to the machine spirits not weapon spirits.

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>>48645198
>TFW space marines can be even bigger.
>And the future exorcists chapter master is as big as an ogryn.
Feels bretty good.

>>48644183
If you just want to tow or to transport livestock or forage then yeah.

But it couldn't run any actual agricultural machinery.

A modern era Tractor is more like a factory on wheels. It lifts shit using Hydraulics and powers various machinery using its PTO.

>>48652964
Are you saying that Anrakyr who is a soulless Necron, is a psyker? He can connect to Machine spirits too.

>>48652608
>misunderstood
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean the official version is wrong faggot
Have you ever considered that some people might like the idea that venerable warmachines people cared for for hundreds of years start getting a sentience and want to fight for them and help is a pretty cool thing

>>48654722

Read the thread . Space marines can do it, it was part of their new powers. Unless you are implying all marines are necrons.

>>48655430
No, you are implying that Necrons are psykers because they can take control of "Machine spirits". Of course they are not so Machine Spirits are AI.

>>48655474

Not according to the rulebook and codices. If the machine spirit was just AI technomancy would not work.

>>48623765
Is there a game that lets the party play as a group of leman russ commanders, like each one gets a tank? Trick them out or customize them over the campaign to specialize their roles a bit. Anything about that in dark heresy? I think my group might enjoy something like that.

>>48655698
Only War

>>48655586
Psychic power can manipulate reality. Reality and logic are foundations of AI. There problem solved.

>>48655850

They are manipulating the machine via contacting the machine spirits. This has nothing to do with AI

>>48656753
So do the Necrons which means the process is not spiritual in nature. So the psykers are using their minds to manipulate reality to form a connection with the AI.

>>48638082
Not banging your head and other bits on the hard bits that are around you while going over rough terrain, taking a sharp turn, quick stop, IED or being hit by enemy fire.

Also as this Anon said.
>>48640123

>>48655747
Thanks, anon