MTG Modern General

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The overall and paper Modern Metagame

Decklists:
>http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper

Modern deck primers link:
>http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern

Tiers are usage-based. A Tier 2 deck may be better than a Tier 1 deck in a specific Metagame.

Second for Mono-White Hatebears with Selfless Spirit.

Also unban Hypergenesis and Stoneforge Mystic.

Reminder that modern is a competitive format for competitive players. Take your home brews to the standard/casual thread

>>48613942
Is there any guide to get into modern? Like what removal is prominent, if there are a lot of artifacts running, how fast the format is, mana fixing in the format, etc? Besides decklists I mean.

>>48615645
Not really, but we can answer your questions.

Prime removal includes Lighting Bolt, Path to Exile and Terminate. Basically anything low cost, high impact.

Affinity is the best artifact deck. Lots of synergy and most times crazy fast. Good deck, look it up.

The format is generally decided on turn 4 or 5.

Mana fixing is super easy. Between fetches, shocks, and a myriad of other lands, there's enough to support any color combination you want.

>>48615758

So I'm guessing it's not really a creature heavy format with all that great removal running around, right?

>>48615814
The opposite, really. It tends more to a creature heavy format, so every deck runs at least some removal. Even Zoo, named because it runs a bunch of creatures, runs some number of Paths on the 75.

Creatures are just really efficient, and a bunch need to be answered or they run away with the game.

>>48615758

>Prime removal includes Lighting Bolt, Path to Exile and Terminate. Basically anything low cost, high impact.

You forgot dismember and abrupt decay.

>>48615814
It's still creature heavy. It's better to run threats than answers and always will be.

>>48614610

What if you have a janky ass deck that pulls hilarious surprise wins? I mean that's like shit how Suicide Zoo started coming about.

>>48613942
Bedlam reveler is fucking great.
I know it isn't EMN but traverse the ulvenwald is pretty neat too

>>48614610
>Suicide Zoo
>Amulet Bloom
>Nahiri Control
>Dredge
>The completely unknown and untested Eldrazi deck that demolished a Pro Tour
These were all brews until people realised they were actually really powerful. Have you ever heard the quote attributed to US patent office commissioner Charles H. Duell from 1899? The quote goes, "Everything that can be invented, has been invented."

tldr there's plenty of good cards and decks that don't see play because they don't see play. Your attitude is a feedback loop. Just because it's a brew doesn't mean it's bad, though it's important to remember that this doesn't mean any janky piece of shit brew it's somehow good. You have to be able to evaluate on your own, which you most likely are incapable of if you've developed that attitude.

>>48616277

There's a difference between brew that's competitive, and tier 1000 superfriends.dec. Even mono green stompy can be considered as a competitive deck (especially as sometimes it pulls some wins on a small tournaments).

>>48616327
That post simply stated to take brews elsewhere without leaving room for the possibility of a competitive brew.

>>48616277
That post is mostly a response to people posting janky brews just to bask in the (you)'s and bait the entire thread.

But I agree, barring every brew from discussion doesn't do much to help the thread.

>>48614610
brews are some of the most fun because you can always tinker with them, and the response you get from players can be the best.

I played my personal brew against my LGS owner. The owner runs Jund, and I wanted some experience playing against Jund.

I ended up with 2 players being my hype guys when they saw me holding my own against jund with my deck. For a short time, I was literally the Chinese cartoon hero of a voodoo cardboard collection sim.

>>48616251
Traverse the Ulvenwald is basically a strictly better Worldly Tutor if you have Delirium, I really don't know how people haven't caught on. Maybe its cheap now, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being Tarmo levels of expensive.

>>48616357
isn't this thread like dead enough already? He's just being a stupid fuck.

>>48614610
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-new-fortress-in-town/
My homebrew is going to come and fuck your burn deck in the ass.

Then your infect deck.

Then anything based on small creatures.

>>48616465
Exactly. Delirium is extremely easy to turn on if you even slightly design the deck towards it. Run a seal of fire or tarfire if you have to.

The land aspect of the card isn't bad either.

my friend is currently using gnarlwood dryads in suicide zoo, with it he just won the wmcq here

>>48616617
The issue is that there aren't enough playable delirium cards to warp your deck into playing cards like Seal of Fire.

>>48617029
gnarlwood dryad

Creature (26)
1x Azorius Guildmage
4x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Flickerwisp
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Spirit of the Labyrinth
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Thought-Knot Seer

Land (22)
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Celestial Colonnade
3x Geier Reach Sanitarium
4x Ghost Quarter
7x Plains

Instant (8)
4x Ojutai's Command
4x Path to Exile

Artifact (4)
4x AEther Vial

D&T with a little blue for Azorius Guildmage and Ojutai's Command. There's also a hard lock of Spirit of the Labyrinth + Geier Reach Sanitarium in there as a way of grinding your opponent's hand down, and once it's empty they have no way of playing Magic anymore.

>>48616534

why no ulamog or another immense mana sink?

>>48616534
You may as well run Genesis Wave with all that mana. Or just Tooth and Nail into something dumb.

>>48617029

Cards that crosses my mind:

1. Mad lumberjack that makes a small goyflike-appearance
2. gnarlwood dryad
3. Traverse
4. Whispers of Emrakul (delirium turns it into hymn)

>>48617222
Look again, my friend, for the mana sinks are there.

Assault formation, I buff and swing with all the defenders not used for mana.

Aurelia's fury, I win with lethal burn damage. If it's not enough to win, it come with a lot of neat tricks. The tap down and damage splitting is highly relevant.

>>48617281
genesis wave doesn't generally win me the game same turn, tho. Aurelia's fury and/or assault formation + that much mana is lethal, same turn.

>>48617454
>Aurelia's fury and/or assault formation + that much mana is lethal, same turn.
Right so you haven't done that much research if you haven't even run into Banefire.

>>48617463
I am aware of banefire. I made the deck when jeskai control wasn't a big deal, and it is more attractive now than it was then, but for now I still think aurelia's fury is superior, due to its flexibility.

>can be used to fog, tapping down threatening things
>can be used as spot removal across multiple targets
>instant speed
>all around better and more versatile if I do not have the full mana needed for a kill, and am using it in conjunction with another wincon.
>hilariously counters ancestral vision

Also, consider the counterspells I need to worry about...mana leak? spell pierce? I can play around those sorts of threats with the sheer quantity of mana I have. Remand is all they've got.

>>48617398
The main issue with delirium beaters in Modern is that Tarmogoyf is basically better than all of them. If you want to build on a budget in Modern, delirium is the worst thing you could be doing. Like, literally.

I want to proxy two decks without sideboards to play against each other. What two decks would be the most fun?
My thoughts were to take two midrange/control decks and just accept my value overlords

>>48617550
You can run Tarmo in the deck too though, after all its got a strong synergy with Delirium strategies.

Plus, its arguable that Grim Flayer and Gnarlwood Dryad are THAT inferior to Tarmo. Grim Flayer has Trample and sets up your draws while feeding your yard and thus, your Tarmo, although it doesn't grow as much as the latter. Meanwhile Gnarlwood is a 3/3 Deathtouch for G. You really can't ask more of a one drop.

Plus, the point of a Delirium deck is not having a strong aggro, but to have a creature toolbox of x1s and x2 to fetch with Traverse in order to stabilize and the dominate the mid-late game. Hymn of Emrakul also helps a lot winning a topdeck war.

Hey why don't Living End decks play a copy of Urborg to make the Street Wraiths unblockable?

>>48617837
spicy

>>48617711
Proxy two time wierd life.
The fun will never end

Why in the bloody bumble fuck did mishra's bauble spike to double the price overnight?

>check mtg salvation
>any untiered deck/a deck from "deck cration" subforum likes to call itself "tier 3"
>There is a list of tier 3 decks and neither of them is tier 3.

why.

>>48618592

some autistic buyout probably.

>>48618592
Holy shit, I bought a playset for literally pennies a couple years back. Now it's 25-50 on TCG, and... 15 on SCG. Wait, which obe is more accurate?

why are there 2 modern generals

>>48617814
Not him but you need to splash a third colour. Red or blue seem insane.
You'd need to run just generic good stuff like courser of kruphix, Bitterblossom, to get more card types. The splash can add either more instants, sorceries or tribal (tar fire or faerie trickery as a one of)

>>48617115
Kys

>>48619195
One is competitive, the other is a Mardu meme spillover

>>48618592
Apparently it helps for getting delirium in suicide zoo.

>>48619203
>>48619203
Bitterblossom isn't a good idea because it osn't the kind of card you can't rely to end up or even want in the graveyard.

Courser I like, but not over Mul Daya Oracle, albeit it could be included alongside it. If extra land per turn stuff is going to be included on the deck perhaps the Gitrog Monster could be a 1 or 2 of. It's a great curve topper that easily wins you games if it isn't removed.

About the splash, Red seems like the go-to colour for Lightning Bolt, Terminate and the like, but if you pick it you are running Jund colours, which means that unless you can do what Jund does even better or have a very different strategy altogether there's no point in running a Delirium deck over Jund. That's why I think Blue splash is best.

As to what blue cards could be ran, for starters, Glimpse the Unthinkable as a 3 of. A self-targeted Glimpse is pretty much guaranteed delirium and it helps you draw with Gitrog on the table.

>>48620759
>Courser I like, but not over Mul Daya Oracle, albeit it could be included alongside it. If extra land per turn stuff is going to be included on the deck
Courser is an enchantment and a creature, it costs less and isn't boltable. It doesn't give extra land drops but it smooths draws and gains incidental life (good vs burn). Courser is significantly better than oracle. Oracle just costs way too much to be playable a non-ramp deck

>>48617029
Goyf and traverse are enough. Having a giant 2 mana beater and being able to play am improved worldly tutor are reasons good enough for me

>people thought reveler wouldn't be a 4 of in delver
>these same people will pretend they didn't think that in responding to this pose.

>>48622673
I bought mine immediately. I feel like getting extras to make cash off them

>playing modern
lol why arent you playing commander?

>>48622939
cause someone doesnt want to be a filthy casual

>>48622939
I play both. You don't have to be a faggot anon.

Anyone else loving the new cards?

I've just put together a Temur delver list with Bedlam reveler and traverse the ulvenwald. It's pretty fun and seems really strong. Tempo's back baby

>>48622673
Delver is still garbage in modern, literally a moot point.

>>48624954
Fuck off with this shit attitude. Good cards make bad decks better. Delver just got back treasure cruise with a body on it.
Not my fault you suck at evaluating cards.

Grixis delver is putting up results and Todd Anderson just did well with rug

>>48625008
You're cute

>>48625061
And you're just wrong

>>48625061
>provides solid argument
>hurrr I insult you

Typical

>>48625395
Not sure where cute is an insult.

Reveler does not make the deck nearly good enough to even approach T1 status. It's another piece of bait for a deck that just can't survive in this meta, or where wotc takes back gifts for the deck, or flat out refuses to print cards fans havr been asking for.

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Decks marked with a blue dot basically cannot lose to Hypergenesis. Decks marked with a green dot have a favorable matchup leaning on heavily favorable. I should also mention that mill of all things very easily beats Hypergenesis.

Unban Hypergenesis.

Is there any slight chance that Kalitas will drop in price once he rotates out of Standard?

>>48625770
Not even kind of likely, he's almost perfect and Dredge is becoming even more popular.

>>48625665
This is the blandest of memes.
Listing other combo decks as Favored or Cannot Lose vs. Hypergenesis really makes you just look like you're trying too hard.

>>48624146
Just play monkeys

I'm excited for when Nahiri goes out of print so they unban splinter twin and I'm allowed to play my deck again without ruining wotcs sales :3

>>48625665

"mill very easily beats a deck that runs several copies of emrakul mainboard"

>>48625665
You have brain damage

>>48625561
You obviously are just pulling this out of your ass and have done zero testing with the cards

>>48626391
Not him, but I fail to see how a 4/4 trampler even compares to draw 3 on a 3/4 prowess or an incredibly powerful tutor

>>48626776
>Playing Traverse the Ulvenwald outside of a toolbox deck
>Not realising that even in toolbox decks, Chord is better
Why are you tutoring up a creature? If you took Traverse out and put 4 copies of a creature in you'd already HAVE a creature. And you wouldn't need to worry about having delirium online.

>>48621950
>Courser is an enchantment and a creature
Shit nigger ur rite. Still, saying Courser is better than Oracle is a major statement. But I'll take it for this deck if only because its an enchantment Creature.

>>48627815
Consistency. That should be really obvious. I can now play 7-8 copies of my creatures that already cost fuck all so adding one green to their casting cost isn't a big deal.

You're not going to tell me an upgraded gsz is bad, are you?

>>48627815
Not him but...

Because sometimes you want to have a bunch of x1s and x2s and be able to tutor them just at the right time. Plus, let me remind you Traverse can tutor ANY land with delirium, which has crazy combo potential, specially when its incredibly common to run x1s and x2s of certain lands.

Even without Delirium the mana fixing is good and makes your starting hands more consistent, specially if you run 3 colours or more.

But yeah, I wouldn't use it outside a creature toolbox deck.

>>48626556
You talk as if Splinter Twin was the bane of Jeskai control.

If you really are gonna claim that, back it up.

>>48624146
Sure am.

Can't wait for the pro tour to see how the new set affects the meta.

>>48626556
>splinter twin was banned because it was holding back other decks in modern
>once it's banned nothing changes in modern

top kek

>>48627815
>traverse for Bedlam Reveler
>adds 1 to his reduction cost
>cast Bedlam draw 3
>either traverse again or snap it back

The value train never ends. You're just close minded

>>48628775
What do you think about Curious Homunculus / Voracious Reader?, I found it to be the perfect partner in crime for Reveler.

>>48629307
I play temur delver and almost none of my spells cost generic mana. Maybe if I played less colour intensive spells he'd fit in

>>48628162
I'm all for a twin unban. Tron had a pretty favorable match up against it and with some of the new tools we got it would be even better

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Why was Umezawa's Jitte banned from modern?
Pic not related.

>>48629881
>that logo

This particular store is fucking bad. Their prices are CRAZY compared to literally all their competitors.

>>48617029
Mindwrack Demon isn't to be scoffed at as a high drop either.
There's also Ishkanah which seems really decent if she has delirium.

>>48613970
Why is Scapeshift so much lower in the Paper Metagame? All the shuffling?

>>48629881
It's a day 0 ban due to it's insane power level. It pretty much does everything and in the age of Midrange: the Midranging, matches will turn into a Jitte circlejerk.

>>48630382

Both cards are too slow for modern.

So I'm gonna get hated on for this but here me out before telling me my deck is a shit.

I play Mardu midrange. Yes the meme deck of our general. I like it, fuck you. Anyways now that that's out of the way, I jammed Nahiri into my deck and you know what? She's just a bad meme imo. At least for my meme deck. meme within a meme. Memeception

Anywho, I've been thinking of selling her and buying Bobs instead. I already run Lilies so I'm good for Planeswalkers, and Bobs draw effect could be really useful. Any thoughts?

Also I've been thinking of running Blood Moon mainboard since I run a good amount of basic lands, but it's just a thought for now.

>>48630725
She's a meme, but she's way better in UWR control or even WR LD. Dega is a terrible deck for her.

>>48630725
I don't think blood moon is a good idea.

You need double black for lili. Moon is more effective the earlier it comes down. What I'm getting at its you need two swamps and a plains at least before you can play it. However in this situation you have no red because you're only having basics out. Earliest you'll play moon is turn 4 and that's with perfect fetching.

So, either you wait long to play it or you never cast lotv.

I believe for your deck you play fulminator mage with k commands if you wanna hate on mana bases

>>48630911
This nigga knows what's up

>>48630911
This is actually the best advice I've ever seen on this general.

>>48630725
No shit Nahiri is bad in Mardu, you got little ways to dig for her and not enough removal to protect her. Also you should have had bobs in the first place.

Bloodmoon is shit mainboard for three color decks.

>>48631080
Please take a lesson in constructive criticism from >>48630911

>>48631120
Oh damn. Sorry dude, I forgot about my reddiquette.

>>48631120
Mardu anon here. He had a fair point. Don't be a pussy, this is 4chan.

>>48631175
Just because it's 4Chan you don't have to be a prick and contribute literally nothing.

>reddit bogeyman

>>48631261
Oh shit, you are right, instead I gotta make a le ebin movie/videogame reference or a quirky joke xD.

>>48631261
>contribute literally nothing

Pointing out flaws is still a contribution, even if you think it's unduly rude.

>>48631261
>Get mad at anon being rude.
>Says he doesn't contribute to the thread because of it
>He had actual criticism related to the conversation, you ironically do not

Oh shit I fell for the bait

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>all these plebs thinking their planeswalker slut is hot shit

I was bringin the pain long before this bitch came round.

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Hey guys, out of curiousity, what'd you say is top three for power level in colour combos in modern and bottom three?

I play Jund right now, and I want a braindead aggro deck to play. Should I spend about $250 finishing Infect, or about $500 to build Affinity?

>>48631582
Jund
Junk
Grixis

Naya
Temur

Bant
Mardu
Esper

>>48631607
But you already have a braindead midrange deck

>>48631582
>top
jund
jeskai
grixis

>bottom
mardu
esper
sultai

>>48631579
Oh hey Koth, sorry I almost forgot about you. Found a home in any deck outside of Skred? Or topped any events lately? Have enough people playing you to be past tier 4?

>>48631610
>>48631638
U/g/x seems bad on both of your opinions.
What could wizards do to fix u/g/x

>>48631582
Top:
Jund
UWR
Junk

Bottom:
BUG
Bant
Naya

>>48631660
>implying koth cares about popularity contests
>implying koth belongs anywhere other than the manliest deck modern has ever seen

>>48631681
Have actual good cards to reward you for playing a UGx combination. Jund gets K-command, Jeskai gets Nahiri, so on.

>>48631681
print actual counterspells
unban deathrite
unban preordain

>>48631681
They could fucking print good cards in u/g instead of giving everything to b/g and r/b

>>48631681
UG has no good 1 mana removal or disruption, but it's not that bad when paired with red or white imo since you get bolt or path
Temur is not tier 1 but has been in the past because bolt + snap + goyf is a fine combo
Bant Eldrazi is tier 2 right now according to the chart

>>48631660
Nah man, just chilling in comfy Skred. Throwing mountains and shit. What've you been up to?

>>48631660
>bullying big nig Koth
Cmon bruh. We all cool here

>>48631681
Simic charm is a good start because it's not terrible but it needs a command on the same level as atarka or kolaghan

>>48631261
Evaluate his criticism, don't reply to him and move on. Otherwise the whole general will turn on you for shitting up the general by arguing. That goes for you and >>48631175 retrospectively.

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>>48628084
late response, splinter twin is not the bane of jeskai """control""", it's a better wincon than nahiri. they banned splinter twin so they could print nahiri :^)

>>48628162
oh but it did change, we got the eldrazi winter that made a lot of people quit modern which twin would have been able to contain

>>48632105
No, not even Twin could beat/control the deck if it was still legal. Eldrazi were fast as fuck and made an overwhelming boardstate quickly. Literally Bloodmoon was considered too slow. The only deck that could keep up with it was Affinity and only barely.

>>48632105
Can you twin faggots be any more self absorbed and delusional?

>>48632257
Depends, are you going to pretend the twin ban was justified?

>>48632474
No. I think anyone with a brain can see that exarch should have been the ban if they wanted to hurt the deck

>>48632474
Twin ban was justified.
It became a problem when Splinter Twin stopped being a distinct deck and it became common to just slip a Splinter Twin "package" into other decks.

>>48632474
Just use kiki jiki :^]

>>48632638
What the fuck are you talking about? You sure you aren't confusing Twin decks that splash another color like Temur Twin that splash green literally just for Tarmogoyf?

>>48632670

no he's right that was actually a thing

there were even living end versions around that suddenly did endstep exarch untap twin on you out of nowhere for no reason. people figured out there's no real downside to replacing your fillers or "worst cards" in whatever deck with the combo other than scoring free wins

>>48632670
Temur Twin is what became of Temur Tempo, because the Twin version was simply better at doing the same job. Jeskai Control similarly became Jeskai Twin. Decks were either being directly replaced or repurposed as different flavors of Twin.

>>48632638
This is just wrong, the three color twin decks didn't resemble the respective control decks that supposedly had a "package" slipped into them.

UWR Twin: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11159&d=263470&f=MO

UWR Control: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11016&d=262692&f=MO

Grixis Twin: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11157&d=263455&f=MO

Grixis Control: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11157&d=263454&f=MO

>>48632638
>common to just slip a Splinter Twin "package" into other decks

Oh yeah, all those viable decks that got absorbed into running a Twin package like..... uhhh?

The idea of a jammable package isn't even against Wizard's philosophy, they literally just unbanned two entirely separate ones.

Twin had even less of a metashare, and even less of a conversation rate than Jund and Infect have right now, and has had for the entire duration of the twin ban. Twin wasn't even a T1 deck for significant lengths of time.

But now instead of Twin being T1, you have Jund and Infect mopping the floor with the format with basically nothing able to stop them.

If you consider Tron to be control, Jund to be Aggro, and Infect to be Combo (mtgtop8 does), the format archetype flow has literally been reversed by the Twin ban. GG shitters.

>>48632670
Yep. Delusional. Any deck running u/r was laughed at if it didn't cram twin

>>48632722
>Temur Twin is what became of Temur Tempo, because the Twin version was simply better at doing the same job

Oh so a deck that nobody played got replaced with a Twin build that people sometimes played, and now nobody plays either? Great going there.

Temur Tempo was a deck from like 2014.

>>48632715
Am I the only one who finds it kinda hilarious that Living end puts things other then their combo in their decks? Like recently them trying the Nahiri package (even though Emrakul is counter-intuitive of their combo). Kinda tells me their main strat is so bad/unreliable they gotta do other things.

>>48632735
Yeah, like Delver, Grixis Midrange, and UWr Control, viable T1-T2 decks that all thrived on Twin cleaning things up. Then with the exception of Nahiri, all completely shit the bed when twin got banned. Wew lad, so diversifying.

>>48632749
It was called eternal command, and it won the player's championship in 2014
Abrupt decay is what pushed it out of the format, not twin since it relied on aether vial

>>48632770
>Kinda tells me their main strat is so bad/unreliable they gotta do other things

Ding ding ding.

>>48632775
Abrupt decay is a stupid fucking card in modern. I understand it's use in legacy

>>48632789
Jund was the best deck at the time, since deathrite shaman was legal. So abrupt decay was seeing a lot of play.

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Went 3-1 with U-Tron at Thursday night Modern and pulled pic related from my entrance booster.

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I'll just leave this here.

>>48632729
Here's the two decks the ban article itself referenced:
>Shaun McLaren's Jeskai Control
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/ptbng/top-8-decks-2014-02-22

>Alex Bianchi's Jeskai Twin
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gppit15/top-8-decklists-2015-11-22

They're obviously pretty similar gameplans, only Bianchi's deck can just slam Twin and take the game instead of grinding out the rest of the match.

>>48632813
I really really want Spell Queller to be a thing in Modern. Preferably anything other then Coco.

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Will we ever our grey-headed stepchild again?

>>48632813

Are things only spells before they have resolved?

>>48632818
Don't argue with the twinniggers, no logical argument can calm their feeble minds.

At least the podfags had the decency to just switch to coco and quit bitching.

>>48632818
>They're obviously pretty similar gameplans, only Bianchi's deck can just slam Twin and take the game instead of grinding out the rest of the match.
They aren't that similar, though. McLaren's original UWR Control build is designed to go long with Colonnades, Revs, Tec Edges and Ajani to keep Mana Leak relevant, etc.

The Twin deck just wants to beat down with efficient creatures while threatening the combo to gain a tempo advantage against fair decks and occasional free wins against the less interactive unfair decks.

>>48632818
The decks' game plans are really different, even though they share some cards. The twin deck is trying to out tempo you and beat down with flyers, then combo if there's an opening. The control deck is trying to grind out the game and win with the inevitability of sphinx's revelation. I played a lot of twin and you weren't actually that great at being a control deck, which was why jund, junk, and grixis were such shit matchups, whereas uwr control just shat on all of those decks. Splashing a third color made it better, but I still don't think that any twin deck was ever favored against any rock deck.

I know you guys all hate twinniggers since it stopped a lot of decks from being viable, but it was just another deck that was perfectly beatable if you git gud

>>48632732

>twinnigger being mad

nobody stops you from playing your deck on xmage against 4c ally or superfriends.dec. I bet their pilots will be thrilled to play against mighty twin.

The game is much better without twin, so it ain't coming back. Better just deal with it.

>>48632879
When we revisit the Eldrazi who have invaded Ravnica in Return to Ravnica Once More. Where the mysterious 6th Nephilim turns out to be a 4th, undiscovered Eldrazi Titan and it's up to the Jacetice League to stop it.

After Kaladesh.

>>48632879
I hope so, it really feels like a 6th color in terms of restricting mana bases. Like some decks I'll think "man a thoughtknot would be sweet here" but then I don't have anus mana to accompany it, but could easily through a different mana base.
I hope they keep it weird and confined and exile-related, and flesh out the anus mana in the color pie a little too, as there's definitely a feel for Ugin-magic in the OGW cards

>>48632901
Everything is a spell. This isn't Yugioh where Monsters are monsters, Spell cards are spells, and Trap cards are traps. A creature would be considered a creature spell, so it's a spell.

>>48632722
Temur Tempo sucks though. After the ban I haven't seen anything about it.

Jeskai control still existed under twin and most control decks actually were favored in the match up. I'm sure Nahiri Jeskai would still be a deck even if twin was reintroduced

>>48632923
>game better without Twin

I think your mean modern is almost exactly the same. Twin ban changed literally nothing. No decks rose or fell unless they got new cards after the banning (dredge stuff for dredge, nahiri for jeskai, nu-eldrazi for eldrazi)

At least be rational and admit banning twin did virtually nothing for modern as a whole

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>>48632938

>>48632938

I get the feeling association with Eldrazi blocks doesn't do it any favors.

We need a <> good guy for once.

>>48632938
you mean the fifth titan, the one that appears in return to iceage 3: continental drift.

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>>48633035
forgot pic.

>>48632938
What do you think the odds are WotC will introduce an evil gatewatch soon?

I would bet very high. All sets would be easy cause it would just be evil mustache twirling planeswalker plays a prank on a plane and the gatewatch have to come in and do anime superhero garbage

>>48632988

That's why I asked. If you can just target anything, including permanents, it seems OP.

>>48633035
Silly anon, that's not a marketable, "fan favorite" plane to return to.

>>48632912
That's kind of the point. Twin was a more viable strategy than going long, so the cards meant for going long were scooped out and Twin was dumped in their place. At the time, it was just better to play Twin, so decks were just becoming Twin instead of staying diverse.

>>48633051
Nah, they are going to make a notThanos for the Jacetice league to fight. Ride that Avenger's train even harder.

>>48633070
No, it's a spell while it is being cast. That retard didn't understand your question

>>48633051
>>48633107
Ob Nixilis has pretty much already sworn vengeance on all of them and flown away while twirling his nonexistent mustache. Bolas is looking for recruits since the whole Sarkhan thing fell through.

>>48633051
I'm personally waiting for Jace to do some anime power up thing

Have him go "super planeswalker" or "ascended planeswalker"

>>48633016

>I think your mean modern is almost exactly the same.

And this is twinniger being delusional.

>>48633096
Twin didn't deserve to be banned for exposing a fundamental flaw of the format, though.

What WotC should have done was (re)print better cards for control decks. Counterspell would be a start.

>>48633144
Dude, you missed it.
He's the fucking Guildpact. If anyone tries to start shit on Ravnica, then you'll get your super planeswalker.

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>>48633144
"Don't... hurt... my frieeeeeeeeeeends!"

>>48633142
Well you have a good variety of angry planeswalkers to choose from

You can just have Garruk, Ob, Nahiri, Tibalt, and Tezzeret to represent on the different colors and you can have Nicol Bolas lead them because why not.

They can have an oath to push grandmas down stairs and put whoopee cushions on Jaces chairs

>>48632813
You missed the chance to say "Let me just Flash this in here"

>>48633144
>something bad happens to Chandra
>he's the 1 in a million planeswalker born every 100000 years that has the power to go even further beyond

I could see it

It wouldn't even be that hard to make in game either. Basically just a flip walker with specific conditions to flip

>>48633150
>And this is twinniger being delusional.

Name 1 deck you couldn't play that you can now that Twin is gone. The meta is literally exactly the same, with Jund, Infect, and Tron doing a gatekeeper impression while jacking each other off.

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>>48633172
I cringed/10

Also, you fucked up, you should have used pic related for the anime powerup.

>>48633096
I think that the fact that twin was becoming more dominant wasn't because the deck was magically getting better, it was because the linear decks were getting better and contol was getting weaker and needed a way to close the game. Just in the last few years we've gotten eidolon of the great revel, monastery swiftspear, atarka's command, collected company, and become immense. Aggro decks have gotten a shot in the arm while control decks have gotten jace and k command, neither of which are even that good against aggro decks. Banning twin was stupid because it won't make the other control decks viable, it just makes the aggro decks better since they have one less sketchy matchup.
Look at modern now, the only control deck plays a planeswalker that wins the game in two turns because if you durdle around you're gonna get got by something

>>48633172
*unsheathes mind katana*
*teleports behind Nicol Bolas*

"h-he's fast"

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>>48632836
Been testing it in u/w death and taxes, and u/w human tempo. So far I've never been sad to draw it or play it.

>modern viable confirmation

>>48632901
Yes, everything you have to "cast" is considered a "spell" .

>>48633245
She seemed strong when I jammed her in mono W. Not great against Jund/UWR most of the time, but you could probably run a 3/2 split of Selfless Spirit and Spellskite for those sorts of matchups.

>>48633193
>btfo

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mods are asleep, post memes

>>48633225

1. dredge - it would fold to twin instantly
2. nahiri decks
3. grixis

But sure, you dumb twinnigers will just rebute this argument, and go on "twin dindu nuffin".

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>>48633369
Why sylvan scrying over this? Finding mazes end is an advantage for scrying but you could go 2 and 2 and have an extra blocker and still find the mazes end.

>>48633369

Do you really want me to post the superfriends.dec made by that one autist?

>>48633159
Then twin could run counterspell for fucks sake

>>48633564
With ewitness you could even go down to 1 scrying, or even none with the rev and cantrips since you have 3 ends.

>>48633548
Not that guy but

1. You couldn't know this without seeing the match up as it is NOW against Twin. I think with a sideboard of interaction it could be close but likely unfavorable.

2. Nahiri Control would exist in a twin world and probably be favored against twin. Harder control decks usually are favored against Twin

3. Grixis isn't that popular or that good right now. Also Grixis control had a history of having a great matchup against Twin.

>>48633548
>dredge
yup.
>nahiri decks
true, but this is just twin 2.0, not sure why you would like it more
>grixis
that deck thrashed twin up and down, inquisitions, terminates, and lilis were all very good against it

>>48633564
honestly the deck is hot garbage, I played a couple games on cockatrice and it's even terrible for a meme tier 6 deck. there's no way to ramp out gates other than coiling oracle so the soonest that you can actually win is like turn 8 which is just too slow.

>>48633548
>1. dredge - it would fold to twin instantly
With twin around, dredge would need to run discard route and set of Lightning axe.

>2. nahiri decks
I'm quite sure twin has no answer to Nahiri ulti and if control being played properly, twin has a bad game against decks that keep you from playing their combo.

>3. grixis
Which has discard route, removal route and comparable tempo shell? I'm quite sure it would be very even match... Well, grixis has better beaters though.

Twin was pretty fair deck in the sense it had to devote a lot into it's combo. If it couldn't do it in game, most decks got to wreck it. I kind of like to think it as a noob police in the format.

>>48634039
>I'm quite sure twin has no answer to Nahiri ulti
>I'm quite sure twin has no answer to Nahiri ulti
>I'm quite sure twin has no answer to Nahiri ulti

holy fucking shit people in this thread

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>>48634039

>Twin was pretty fair deck
>it had to devote a lot into it's combo

>>48633548
Dredge is in the colours of Decay.

>>48634039
>I'm quite sure twin has no answer to Nahiri ulti
Cryptic to name one

>>48634447
Or exarch/pestermite.

>>48633613
>grixis
>iok
>lilis
???

>>48633548
>1. dredge - it would fold to twin instantly
>2. nahiri decks
>3. grixis

Are you retarded?
1. All linear aggro got smacked down by Twin, that was the point. You could say the same about Jund in the current meta.

2. A deck built to disrupt combo and defend a planeswalker couldn't handle a combo deck? Fampai Blue decks with a plan used to prey on Twin.

3. Ok you're just fucking trolling. Grixis existed because it cornered Twin in all aspects, and didn't have to grind against it. Grixis isn't even a deck anymore thanks to Twin getting banned.

>>48634224
>Twin was pretty fair deck
>it had to devote a lot into it's combo
>Combo decks are unfair because I don't like them.

Are you people seriously retarded? Or just shitposting for funsies?

>>48634081
>I'm quite sure twin has no answer to Nahiri ulti
>holy fucking shit people in this thread

Are you trolling? Jeskai has more ways to disrupt Twin than Twin has to stop Nahiri. If anything Nahiri would force Twin to diversify it's options to actually be able to deal with her. Not to mention that if Twin was playing defensively it was essentially fucked pre-board.

"Lol just flash Exarch and tap" isn't an actual game plan due to the fact that only a complete retard would just jam into that without backup. Especially given the fact that Twin has to pay a total of 7 mana over 2 consecutive turns to win, and Jeskai has to pay exactly zero to ultimate and win, and you could actually see some counter battles and *gasp* hand sculpting and stack interaction. Maro pls help us ban more ban more.

Your linear shitter deck having no way of interacting with the stack doesn't suddenly mean that Jeskai Nahiri and Twin don't.

To all the "Lol twinnigger" idiots, answer this: Jund currently has a higher overall metashare than Twin did when it was banned, and has a significantly higher conversion rate than Twin did even at it's absolute peak. How was Twin oppressive and Jund isn't? They prey on the same decks.

>>48634874
>To all the "Lol twinnigger" idiots, answer this: Jund currently has a higher overall metashare than Twin did when it was banned, and has a significantly higher conversion rate than Twin did even at it's absolute peak. How was Twin oppressive and Jund isn't? They prey on the same decks.
Because this is modern and any semblance of blue or combo is bad. I'm sorry you still don't see this

>>48632105
Youre delusional, twin was always 1 turn behind the eldrazumi deck. They banned twin to try to mitigate the butthurt because the new sheriff was in town, but realized they didnt need a sheriff.

>>48634962
The two decks didn't even exist at the same time, idiot.

>>48634996
Eldrazi won turn 3, twin won turn 4. Youre lucky your pet deck was retired before it was embarassed on livestreams over the world.

>>48634874
I remember saying this in a previous thread and it serves to be reiterated; if Jund did anything except play the literally most 'fair' form of Magic possible, it would have had a piece of it banned by now or see unbannings targeted specifically at reducing it's presence.

Modern WotC are just fagniggers that want everyone to play boring-ass creature tappening, hence why Twin get's it's shit rekt while Jund continues to push out a metric fuckton of decks out of viability.

>>48635065
Why would twin be embarrassed about losing to a deck that literally beat every other deck as well, and got the only well deserved banhammer in years?

>>48616534
I like this.

>>48618592
http://blog.mtgprice.com/2016/07/05/an-interview-with-the-man-behind-the-buyouts/

>>48622939
One is a competitive format, the other is a casual format. They do not overlap. (Competitive Commander is a joke.)

>>48631681
Delete Sultai Charm and print an actual good charm. "Destroy target monocolored creature" is too narrow against eldrazi, manlands and multicolor threats. Also doesn't kill planeswalkers.

>>48618592
Because speculators are starting to realise that Wizards will never meaningfully reprint highly sought after cards, and that the youth of today have no money sense. Ever played the markets in EVE Online? That's basically what's going on right now.

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>>48632988
Please don't explain rules if you have no clue what you are talking about.
>>48632901
Any non-land card you play from your hand go on the stack as spells, and remain spells until they resolve (which is immediately unless your opponent responds). Sorceries and Instants have an effect before entering the graveyard, whereas other spells become permanents. Permanents are not spells. Playing lands does not use the stack, doesn't count as casting a spell, and cannot be responded to.

>>48622673
delver sucks shit in modern though. Too much removal and no way to easily flip or protect him

I do think reveler will see play though

>>48633214
>Jace, Annoying Twerp
>+1 Tap or untap up to two target creatures
>-2 Return target permanent to it's owners hand
>-7 Transform Jace, special snowflake

>JACE, SUPER SAYAN BANKAI JINCHURIKI RINNENGAN CHAMPION OF FRIENDSHIP
>+2 Until your next turn, prevent all damage done to other planeswalkers you control. They gain hexproof until your next turn.
>+0 Look at the top three cards of target player's library, then put any cards on the bottom of their library and the remaining cards on top in any order
>-6: Search your library for any number of planeswalker cards and put them into play.

>>48635354
>Search for a shit ton of walkers with the same name
>They go to the yard
>Cast 3 Gurmag Anglers

>>48634874
Thanks for this. Good to see some hope restored in these thread once in a while.

I have seen nahiri decks a lot lately, but have they actually been relevant in tournaments? Would love to see UWR control topping someday again. Although I can see price being an issue with popularity of this deck.

>>48635532
http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO&meta=51

also >>48613970

>>48633586
Counterspell benefits the control decks that prey on Twin more than it benefits Twin. Not having to deal with the nonbo of Path and Mana Leak is a huge upside for UWx decks.

>>48635093
What would you ban from Jund that's both inexpensive and not a staple card in other decks, though?

>>48635713
Tarmogoyf

>>48635720
>that's both inexpensive and not a staple card in other decks
You and I both know WotC will never ban Tarmo.

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>>48635748

>>48635713
There's nothing really that fits both criteria since Jund is an amalgam of both generically strong cards and expensive staples. To bring it a bit lower in power though; Kolaghan's Command would be the most reasonable even if LotV would make more sense. I think axe'ing Lili would knock Jund into being shit-tier while removing K-Com as an option lowers that infuriating flexibility.

Or just unban Twin/Dark Deeps.

Been doing good with Meek Thopters lately. Chalice on 2 second turn shuts down so many agro decks. It also shuts down Thoughtseize, Lightning Bolt, Spell Snare, Serum Visions and a plethora of other spells. Oh, you cheat out Emrakul? Good luck, I'm behind four Ensnaring Bridges. Or let me just kill Emmy with an Executioner's Capsule.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/meek-thopters-3/

>>48634874

I want all twinnigers to drop dead and join their deck on the graveyard of history.

>>48635839
Jund is fine imo, we just need new value cards that are not GB.

>>48635720

>remove goyf
>WotC just print a mad lumberjack that grows to 4/4 and draws you cards

Oh boy Wizards hired an african american who as a "Race and Culture Consultant" for their black characters. ITS THEIR OWN FUCKING SETTING WHY DO THEY NEED A CULTURE CONSULTANT?

Why does Wizards even pander to SJWs?

>>48636486
>Why does Wizards even pander to SJWs?
Appealing to a broader mass audience = attract more new players = sell more packs.
This is the reason why you see nigger knights in a medieval German gothic fantasy realm. Next destination: DESIGNATED POOP STREETS

>>48631686
Naya burn is king

>>48636283
This is a fair point, the problem is it's really unlikely they are going to print cards good enough to push say Mardu or Abzan to be competitive with Jund. The combination of discard, both 'Best 2-drop's ever, and flexible-as-fuck LotV just means Value or Midrange decks have to jump over a fucking giant hill to be competitive with Jund on it's home turf.

On the other hand; the deck is historically quite weak to fast Combo decks that aren't literal glass cannons.

Honestly, I just want them to unban Depths already. The only reason it's even on the ban list is because of carry-over from Extended, and the problems with ThopterDepths went way beyond Meek & Depths themselves.

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R8 H8

>>48636791
Jund shits on fast combo, it cant outrace t1 thoughtseize. Jund folds to ramp decks like tron and valakut that go bigger.

>>48637412

>superfriends/10

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>>48637704
I play it against my younger brother's college friends who think they're good at magic and have some badass format-ignoring deck. It's fun to demonstrate how two people can sit down at the same table and plan on playing two very different games.

>>48637412
what the fuck is that

does anyone here play grixis shadow? I already had most of the pieces so I picked up the rest just recently for a fun deck to change things up a bit. what am I in for?

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>>48637993
Mill I'm assuming

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>>48637993
>>48638090
it's mill, didn't realize that was the old one. turns out I hate temporal mastery in practice enough to remove it, this is what the paper looks like now

>>48638193
How do you deal with Emrakul?

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How would you go about activatning Delirium in a creature heavy deck?

The only thing I can think of would be sorcery discard, but how to do it without black?

I guess a playset of some spellbomb or Mishra's Bauble could work, but it seems weak.

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>>48638239
sideboard is 4 leylines, 4 ravenous trap, 4 archive trap and 3 Negate

So I guess add leylines.

>>48638193
bedlam reveler is a nice threat in something like this. RR for prowess on a boltproof stick with "go to 3 hand" is pretty incredible. You're now a viable life threat in what seamlessly goes into a tutelage deck. Shame it only lasts 2 months in standard.

>>48636272
Boy, I hate interactive decks that don't try to go to time every match too. I'm guessing you're a nigger that gates blue right. Prolly plays jund?

>>48637445
>Jund folds to tron
Fulminator and his buddy k-command disagree.

>>48636791
DD unban would make that deck: have path, or lose. The average modern power level is not ready for that deck. Maybe if we got actual reprints of legacy level control cards, but not right now.

Which we will never get, as Maro thinks FoW is too powerful for standard. I honestly think he has brain damage.

>>48638256
What kind of deck are you trying to make? B/G Delirium but for modern?

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>>48638707
>Maybe if we got actual reprints of legacy level control cards

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>48638597

No, you're a twinniger because you have no decency to move on. Instead you just keep screaming about your two-card I win button. Even pod players cried less than twinnigers. Your deck isn't coming back, grow up and stop crying.

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>>48638367

>Shame it only lasts 2 months in standard

Are you new to magic?

>>48638885
He was clearly talking about Sphinx's Tutelage which rotates out with Origins.

>>48638946

Ok, that makes sense. I thought you was talking about bedlam reveler.

What's a good deck for someone who only ever plays EDH and is on a budget. I want to get into modern but i'm not sure where to start.

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Anyone with (Esper) Gifts experience want to share their experiences? I realise I have about 65% of the pieces to build a Gift control list, but control feels so terrible in modern. The Unburial or Sword Foundry package hardly seem worth it. Gifts also seems fairly terribly positioned in modern today, so not sure if I want to go that route. Lists/advice more than welcome.

Alternatively, I'm thinking of picking up Merfolk (I play mostly Legacy, so it's nice to have another Legacy deck at the go this way), but I'm not sure how it's positioned in the meta nowadays.

>>48638853
At least pod players are allowed to play collected chord abzan which is allowed to be just as degenerate as twin but it's okay because it's not blue :^)

>>48637445
Jund shit's on non-interactive/glass cannon combo decks, but it's not nearly as successful when the combo deck isn't being a top memer and just racing to assemble. Alternatively, it's strong to tseize. I don't really agree that Valakut is a Ramp deck, Valakut is a Combo deck with a Ramp element.

>>48638707
I want to say that between Fulminator, GQ, Bounce effects, Path, and assorted permission the format would be able to adjust to like a turn 3-4, occasionally t2 20/20 Indestructible.

There are definitely things that Modern can't deal with, but they are mostly connected to fast mana. Like Modern would never be able to actually deal with a good Storm deck.

>>48638853
So most of the wotc hate for twin ban, was when twin had a higher meta%, they explicitly said "this deck is fair and doesn't justify a ban". Then because it suited the pro tour schedule banned it for the reason they said it wouldn't be banned for, while it was doing that less then it did in the past, after sets of blocks where they explicitly printed hate for it.

If they did that to my deck I'd be pissed too.

I am having an argument with my friend over the decks Elves, Infect and Affinity. He is trying to tell me they are easy to pilot, linear aggro decks; while I am trying to explain that they are aggro combo decks utilizing synergy or winning on one turn (Infect). Who is right here?

>>48638256
Artifact creatures, like hangerback Walker, and enchantment creatures, like courser. Run a set of green oaths

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>>48638239
Cry until their Emrakul is water damaged to the point they can no longer play it out side of casual

>>48639586
your friend

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Found this new deck, think it could actually go places or is it a total meme?

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/453030#paper

>>48635065
>being this assblasted because you were called out on being retarded

I never played twin you insecure child

>>48635332
Grixis delver is tier 2 and rug is putting up results. Stop just mimicking what you hear idiots say here. Jeskai can protect Nahiri ALL the time though right?

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>>48639586
There is no combing in infect, just stacking every pump spell onto one dude
>>48639676
This is your answer

>>48639130
Use fucking google. Getting real fucking tired of these posts every thread

>>48639586
The only of those decks I have tried is Elves. Your friend is right about that though. What you need to do is look at your hand and figure out which order to drop your mana acceleration to vomit your hand the fastest. Your only 'counterplay' to removal and especially board clears is to have Lead the Stampede and hope to get 5 creatures.

Also on a related note I get triggered every time people call Infect a combo deck. If that's a combo then Zooicide and Bushwacker Zoo are also combos decks because they pump their creatures.

>>48639826
I only put Infect in that group because many articles I read on Channel Fireball or SCG seem to incorporate it into the combo group. I still think there is a lot of interaction that goes around in Elves and Affinity though, not much of a "Combo" deck but do make for non linear games sometimes.

>>48639906
There is definitely a lot of synergy between my own creatures when I play elves. But that doesn't mean the deck isn't very linear. There is also a real combo elves deck that generates infinite mana and plays some big shit like Emrakul or Craterhoof or something else I forgot but I think it's just as linear in its gameplan.

Don't get me wrong I still enjoy playing elves sometimes, it's just not very interactive.

>>48639906
Sounds like you play one of these decks and you're insecure about the level of skill required.

>>48640016
I agree, Elves is much less interactive, and can be either linear or non linear. I do not even think of Elves as a "Combo": deck, but more as a Aggro deck with a combo engine in Druid and Sentinel. I think of it as the same as Storm. Can both decks win on one turn? Absolutely. Can both decks go off? Yes. Can the "Combo" fizzle? Yes, and that is where I think the difference between combo and combo engine decks differ. Splinter Twin was a combo deck, Elves is a aggro deck with a combo engine.

>>48640037
I play Elves and Affinity, I just think he does not understand that the decks are not just "Drop cards and swing any chance you get" but have different paths/steps to take. Can you still win easily with the decks with less than stellar knowledge on them? Yes, but that won't fly when you play someone who knows how to play against you.

>>48640076
Wtf is this shit. Affinity, elves and infect. They are linear aggro decks. Do they even sb for game 2?

>>48639586
Piloting Affinity perfectly is really, really fucking hard. Like it's one of the hardest decks in the game to play at it's absolute peak due to the amount of possible lines of play in every turn, starting from basically the beginning of the game.

Infect is about as hard to play as Burn, except somehow easier because you only need to know how to count to 10 instead of 20.

Modern Elves is easy, Legacy Elves is hard.

>>48640219
Sidenote; that doesn't mean if you are a retard you can't do well with Affinity. The deck is powerful enough that playing it perfectly isn't needed. It's a poster-child for low-floor, high-ceiling.

>>48640219
Is Affinity really that difficult to pilot?

And what major differences make the Modern Elves easier than its Legacy counterpart? Do Quiron Ranger and Wirewood Symbiote make that big of a difference to the deck, because the rest to me seem nearly identical

>>48640357
There's a lot of places to squeeze out some extra percents with Affinity. Knowing when to all-in with Ravager, what to change Counters to, how many Counters, when you should go for straight beatdown and when you should prioritize Inkmoth, what to Cranial Plate. Shit like that makes Affinity have some really difficult lines that most players just won't be able to see. Like I said though, the deck is so fucking good that even an average joe can do well with it.

Optimally using Green Sun's Zenith, Symbiote, DRS, and Sylvan Library adds a lot of depth to the deck that it doesn't have in Modern. Having played both of the decks, I find Legacy is also more of a 'two-path' deck in that sometimes you just beat people down with Elves while denying them value with DRS, while other times you go full Glimpse Combo. Modern Elves just kind of plays out the same way in every game.

>>48640528
The Legacy version uses Sylvan Library? I had never seen that in decklists before. Do you have a link to a more recent list with it?

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>>48635354
I think this is the superior transformation

>>48640565
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13159&f=LE

This has been sort of the 'go-to' list for Elves the past couple of months at the least. Not sure who to credit for the innovation though.

>>48640730
thanks anon, been out of the Legacy loop for a couple of months. The changes are a little shocking to see, namely Gaddock.

>>48639213
>I realise I have about 65% of the pieces to build a Gift control list, but control feels so terrible in modern.
You should look into Esper draw-go. It's much smoother and more consistent than Esper gifts, which really just wants to play green and be an Abzan based deck.

>>48639823
I think we should try and update the OP to have links on getting started and other resources.

>>48640791
Teeg is really dope. It's an instant win against ANT that regularly comes down on turn 2.

I'm not as experienced with Elves as with ANT, but I can say that before they tech'd in Teeg it was one of my easier matchups, while nowadays it's a lot harder if you don't have an early discard spell.

>>48640923
Ah I see now. Thanks anon, looks like I will have to buy a Gaddock for my Legacy Elves deck

>>48640973
No problem man, always happy to help out a fellow Legacy player.

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>>48639638
This is what I'm doing with delirium but idk If I want to just do GB or some GBx.

Somewhat related question for anyone are there any legit good tribal spells?

>>48641267
Tarfire or bitterblossom are really all there is

>>48641267
Bitterblossom is the only good card. Tarfire is playable as your 5th bolt if you want card types in your yard.

>>48641267
There is a decent black one that edicts your opponent and if it's a merfolk they get 2 goblins

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>>48641302
>>48641304
How did I forget blossom was a tribal spell

>>48641267
I have seen Faerie Trickery, Sage's Dousing, All is Dust, and Not of this World cast in a serious setting that wasn't Limited. I'm not sure how much I agree with two of those being good, but the Eldrazi spells are pretty good in decks that can use them.

>>48624146
List?

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>>48632735
>cramming twin in to everything u/r
>wotc said so; thus, it is true
>people are deep-throating Maro in this thread right now, clearly choking with tears in their eyes

wew, nu-males

>>48641504
Wow. This is super cringe. Calling someone a numale while you have anime images saved to your pc.

Kill yourself you memeing faggot. Cry more you can't play your deck lmao

>>48641267
Nameless Inversion is pretty good

>>48641504
>wew, nu-males
I can smell your piss bottles and greasy neck beard from here

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>>48640831
>You should look into Esper draw-go.

>>48641612

He's an obnoxious twinniger what would you expect.

>>48641716
I play turbofog and its pretty much Esper draw-go

>Played Mardu against Kiki Chord with a Nahiri package
>Went 3-2
>The games I lost, my opening hand land were all Shambling Vents
It's impossible to make a bad deck from good cards.

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>>48641267
I just found this old delirium creature. It gets +4/+4 when there's 4 types in your yard!

>>48613970
where does u/r delver sit on this
or
titi Asuncion

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>>48641831
Well no shit I dont need to be told goyf is good Fuck face, I'm obviously gonna play goyf

Hey guys, what is a okay deck to begin my journey in Modern? Something to take to FNM and upgrade over time until it is Tier 2 or 1. One restriction, no Burn please.

>>48640528
>>48640357
As a long time Affinity player, I've watched other people play Affinity plenty of times in the time between rounds, and most every time I can see a bunch of little compounding mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes are irrelevant and they win anyway, and sometimes improper mana, counter, or damage management has cost them the game.

If you lose your game 1 to something messy like that, it makes you even less likely to scrape through games 2 and 3, which are already uphill battles. Knowing what to side, as well as how and when to use your sideboard cards, is also a notable factor.

I saw one player manage to get blown out by Jund, despite landing a Blood Moon, because they got overconfident and spent all their mana every turn rather than holding up mana for the Spell Pierce in their hand and ate a Shatterstorm because of it. Jund was then able to survive enough turns to draw into a Forest, removed the Blood Moon, and then bore down on them with hate cards.

Your opponent has resolved Unburial Rites, returning Iona to the battlefield. What color do they say that hurts you the most?

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>>48641942

Modern superfriends. It's tier 1 like mardu and esper draw-go.

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>>48642074
They name green. I laugh at it.

>>48642107
Even I know Superfriends is not a viable strategy in Modern. Too slow

What makes infect so good in the current meta? Is it just the lack of a faster deck? I know it wasn't putting up such good results before twin and eldrazi ban.

>>48642278
Lack of bolts

>>48642413
But Bolt is the most played card in the format. 43% meta dominance.

>>48641876
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrG8vMJxwws
Check this shit out I'm gonna try it later on Xmage

>>48642278
While the deck is good i firmly believe the deck does so well because players are stupid and don't know when to take out their creatures. Thus getting blown out by a pump spell that saves their critter. Also the deck is greasy

>>48642278
It got wrecked by Twin because they had interaction and consistent t4 kill. It's doing well now because its the fastest deck you can play in the format which gives you an advantage over the multitude of other linear aggro/combo strategies. But it also is the easiest aggro deck to beat without sideboard cards, if you just use your bolts/paths correctly and have some kind of clock.

It's basically replaced twin as the scrub destroyer of the format, it's a really good deck to play against untuned brews piloted by subpar players. But its not as good as twin was in that aspect.

>>48642850
I wouldn't say it got wrecked by twin seeing as vines stops the combo and most lists run some number of dismember in the main. with two skilled pilots it was probably 55-45 in twins favor.
I attribute the rise of infect to the continued refinement of the optimal list, as well as people not giving it a chance for a short while after the pod ban (infect is absolutely not viable in a pod meta).

>>48641942

The easiest deck upgrade path would probably be mono red bushwhacker -> RG bushwhacker -> non-suicide zoo/burn. Mono R bushwhacker will win a lot of games and can beat tier 1 decks, though is not as powerful as them overall because you just blow your load and hope to get there (as opposed to affinity, which blows its load but has other options in the face of removal or interaction).

if you really don't like zoo/burn I would go with the trading post tron list that went up on mtggoldfish a while back. You can upgrade that into mono blue tron which is fairly decent if rough against aggro, and once you've got some mono blue cards (snapcaster, wurmcoil, chalice of the void), you can branch out into other control strategies.

If cost is an issue you want to stay away from jund/junk strategies as they will BTFO your wallet and are only really great at full cost.

There are some balls-in red affinity strategies I've seen recently. You could also start there and slowly level up into real affinity. This would be my choice, because, like bushwhacker, cheap affinity can still win games easily but affinity is much more fun to play.

>try magic duels out
>it's actually pretty decent
>the more I play it the more I realize it's filled with p2w retards who have several mythics from the latest set anyway
>still manage to beat some but can't deal with 3 PWs on turn 6
whew

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Alright boys and girls, going to make a zooicide list but I'm forgoing the baubles, for two reasons:
1) price spike, they were reasonable but now they're unreasonably priced
2) 80% of the deck is sorc speed which means drawing a card on their turn could give you a creature/spell/bauble you don't want

The upside is free delve fodder and +1 swiftspear points, the downside is that you might get btfo by your own topdeck bauble.

Most lists run 2 Bolt, so adding 2 more would be easy. I've got Manamorphose but that seems super shitty as it's 2 mana, but I could test with one and see how it works out.

Basically, Baubleless Zooicide, give me your thoughts for those who play the deck.

>>48638639
I don't think I've lost a single game vs Jund that didn't involve Crumble, Fulminator's just a speed bump with Loam boarded in and chances are it never resolves if the match goes to g3 when Tron's on the play. What are you even K-Commanding, Wurmcoil? The exact same power is on the field after that. O-stone isn't played if there's not 5 open mana for cracking it.

>>48643176
I think you are posting in the wrong thread my man

>>48643147
Thanks a bunch anon. I will do Mono R Bushwacker or Red Affinity. Do you have any links to some starter lists I can read over?

>>48643208
>what are you even k-commanding, wurmcoil?

holy fuck tron players are really retarded. he's kommanding hisbused fulminator back into his hand. I'm not saying the matchup is even approaching good for jund (it's not) but use your fucking brain my dude.

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>>48643272
Bushwhacker has some super secret tech too. A singleton Devastating Summons can do a lot of work, and I can't think of any other deck that would want this piece of sweet jank than Whackers. I'm surprised nobody has broken this card yet.

But on a serious note 1 devastating summons is really good.

>>48642074
I guess blue, but I still have Wrath of God and paths.

>>48643203
Bauble is a shit card but you want the thinning and shit in your graveyard. You probably want manamorphose, but there are a million scenarios where that ends up suboptimal. I don't think 2 more bolts is a good plan though.

>>48643364
>devastating summons
>literally the meme-iest card imaginable
anon pls

>>48643451
>not running one in bushwhacker zoo

It's like you don't want two nacatyls for the price of one.

>4x Delver of Secrets
>4x Young Pyromancer
>4x Spellstutter Sprite
>2x Grim Lavamancer


>4x Gitaxian Probe
>4x Mana Leak
>4x Telling Time
>4x Lightning Bolt
>2x Vapor Snag
>2x Electrolyze
>2x Spell Pierce
>2x Dispel
>2 Izzet Charm
>1x Desolate Lighthouse
>1x Steam Vents
>1x Wooded Foothills
>7x Mountain
>10x Island


This is my janky budget U/R Delver deck I have been building. What are some upgrades I can make?


I already know
-4 Mana Leak
+4 Remand

-4 Telling Time
+4 Serum Visions

-4 Spellstutter Sprite
+4 Monastery Swiftspear


-1 Island
-1 Mountain
+2 Steam Vents/Sulfur Falls
Am I messing up or see any other changes I should make to upgrade?

>>48641831
EMN was literally the perfect set to print Goyf in

>mechanics fit with set's mechanics
>Emrakul is mutating everything so good enough excuse for goyfs to exist in Innistrad
>isn't too crazy power level wise
>it's a midrange creature that turns sideways so it gets maro's thumbs up of approval

>>48637412
It's playable in standard, but Modern is faster.
Also, why would you play Miracle cards when you're drawing 3 cards a turn?

>>48643427
I'm adding one Postmortem Lunge to fill a slot.
I can agree with the "don't just jam more bolts" part as you want to be optimizing the zoo aspect of the deck, but having a clutch full of bolts isn't the worst thing imaginable. So far I need 3 more slots. I'm not against an Apostals Blessing mainboard to fill a slot, as it would only leave two slots available, but I'm unsure on that card as nobody seems to run it.

I've always found people use the bare minimum amount of lands, and adding an extra to decks would be a very easy solution to having extra slots and it wouldn't really dilute the deck by any (shortterm) noticeable amount. Of course the deck has been tuned for 17, but 18 sans baubles would be acceptable, yeah?

>>48643610
In case the argument for it's price being too expensive and being a huge entry barrier for standard comes up.

>people will buy the shit out of this set so even at mythic rarity there will be many goyfs entering the market
>flipJace was 70-80 dollars in his hayday and was practically required to play blue, that didn't kill standard

>>48643669
Right now a standard deck and a set of Tarmogoyfs costs about the same as a standard deck from last year. Tarmogoyf at rare would tank the card's price HARD while selling so many boxes it'd be unreal. Considering they dropped Thoughtseize from $80 to $10, I don't think there's any real reason why they haven't done something.

>>48643610
It's like you don't even play standard, since goyf would be a 7/8 most games
>madman of le woods
>goyf
>oath of nissa
>evolving wilds
>motherfucking traverse
>ishkana

I mean I think standard Rock would be cool but goyf would remain at it's price level and standard would have round two of miniJace: 500$ playsets edition.

>>48643535
ive been running izzet delver for over a year now
my deck has more of a burn shell and i 4/0 at FNM
izzet charm sucks dick dont use it

3 Stormchaser Mage
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Island
4 Mountain
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vexing Devil
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Shard Volley
2 Searing Blaze
4 Serum Visions
2 Twisted Image
3 Lightning Strike
2 Bedlam Reveler
2 Pillar of Flame
SB: 4 Shattering Spree
SB: 3 Spellskite
SB: 4 Leyline of Punishment
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Blood Moon

>>48641797
So you only lose when you mulligan to 4 and draw all your Vents? That's good I guess.

>>48643610
What plane is goyf supposed to be on anyway?

>>48643729
I was wanting to expand into a more Aggro shell with Stormchaser Mage replacing the Grim Lavamancer, and Swiftspear taking Spelltutter Sprite position. My problem is my budget right now will not allow for Snapcasters or Scalding Tarns, the reason for my singleton of Wooded Foothills

>>48641942
Turns
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-02-16-taking-turns/

The expensive cards are Spellskite, which you will need in any modern deck to begin with; Cryptic Command, which can go in any control deck; and Time Warp, which is essential for the deck but doesn't go in any other deck.

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>>48641539
>>48641612
>>48641776


Is Bloom still completely unplayable? Desu, I thought it was the most fun deck of the format. Unfortunate that wotc killed it and chopped up its corpse.

>>48643768
Dominaria.

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>>48643806
budget mana base look into
4x shivan reef
4x steam vents
4x sulfur falls
3x mountian
3x island
(you only need 18 lands since your highest cost spell should be 2)
you should end the game with around 4 lands on the field

if you are gona run swiftspear or storm chaser then you will want atleast 2x twisted image in your can trips

if you are going with an aggro shell then dont run young pyromancer, witch is better in control

vexing devil is good IMO if you need a cheap replacement for pyromancer (instead of snapcaster mage)
but then again i run NO counter spells and only burn spells

also i like thing in the ice as well if you feel like your deck lacks a late game
(if it dosent flip then its still a 0/4 defender for 2)

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>>48643610
I'm sorry to say anon, but that's not possible. We've done a "test" with Thoughtsieze in Theros and by our own metrics and standards that test failed.