Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Hurray I don't have to make the thread again!

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I want Big Bird. In Iron Warriors colors.

>>48607577
You have taught us to be the finest bakers in the land

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>"I enjoy being with my Primarch in the Kharybdis;
it's like being immersed in a murderours feeling."

>>48607577
I knew this dull summary wasn't yours.

Looking to make an Iron Warriors Praetor with the Eviscerator from the MKIII set because it looks cool. I have it all more or less planned out, except for the head, I was thinking of using one of the skull-faced helmets from the IW upgrade pack, but I'm also tempted to use Sidonus from the plastic veterans set. Something enraged and screaming would be cool too, though, but not sure where I would source this. Any suggestions?

What's the point of Grave Warden heavy flamer with chem-ammo, when all the models have a template weapon that wounds on a 3+ and get to keep their grenade launcher?

>>48607577
>>48607679

I'm the anon who made the last thread summary (something something TLDR), not the fabled Thread-Anon.

>>48607679
Hey, whats wrong with my summary? I thought it was okay for a first timer

>>48607749
Well if enough of us do it, we can keep a thread up, day and night, never having to wait to continue the memes.

>>48607711
>Using the skull helmet from the legion upgrade
Did they cared who he was before he put on the mask?
HH3 says glory was for the legion itself rather than the individual warrior, and they were quite paranoid...But they are your dudes after all
>>48607749
I'm aware
>>48607752
Forgive my inner "You're not the best you could be". Keep it up, buddy!

>>48607771
We could sieze the memes of production, and secure them for ourselves!

>>48607784
>HH3 says glory was for the legion itself rather than the individual warrior, and they were quite paranoid...But they are your dudes after all
Not him, but you could argue that the mask represents that, seeing as it's the legion's symbol, the Iron Skull.

>>48607784
>Keep it up, buddy!
Thanks....i think?

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>>48607816
>memes of production
oh...oh that me chuckle

>>48607816
>We could sieze the memes of production, and secure them for ourselves!
The memes of production must belong to the memesters who produce them. Seize them, brothers!
>the mask represents that, seeing as it's the legion's symbol, the Iron Skull.
Yes, that's my point.
>>48607817
Bueno.

>>48607870
Im confused now. On one side, it's the heavy, on the other, the BR will steal all the memes not bolted down.
Are you here to start the fire?

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>>48607711
I don't see anything wrong with that. I'd go with the mask, myself, seeing as I hate bare heads.

>>48607872
>Yes, that's my point.
Oh, sorry.

>tfw don't have HH3
>Can't see the glorious pics and descriptions of my legion
Feels bitter man.

>>48607940
>>tfw don't have HH3
SEIZE THE MEMES OF PRODUCTION, BROTHER!
It's on the OP post.
However, the masked man and an IW clad in MKIII are actually in book 6.
Seize it as well.

>>48607911
But anon, much like the BR, We the Party must secure the relics of the people...For the people

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>>48607940
Here. It is gift for you.

>>48607975
I can get HH6 from the OP, but not 3 since I'm on mobile.

>>48608027
Thanks anon, I have that pic already though.

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>>48607987
Well perhaps I'm wondering why someone would hide a relic after securing it for the legion.

>>48608057
Place the pdf file in your phone and you'll have access to it. Do that when you arrive home.

>>48608129
That's a lot of loyally for a traitor

>>48608147
No, I can't access the Mega when it involves multiple books. Like with HH6 it works because it's a singular book, but it doesn't work with libraries, I'm afraid.

>>48608178
The power of compassion and friendship can be really brainwashing.

>>48608191
Re-read what I told you. Download the book in your computer at home. Then you place the pdf file into your phone using a connection cable.

>>48608302
Oh, alright. That makes more sense now.

>>48608214
Dont talk about the power of friendship; you will end up attracting...them

>>48608367
Fine then. Family. All marines are family anyway.

>>48608367
Clever fool, it never occurred to you we were already here? Every board is teeming with friendship, we've made sure of it.

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>>48607940
That image is odd.
In the original, they're in a bombed building with a marine leaning against that pillar with the flag on it. In this pic it looks like a fortress in the distance.

So either it's a fortress in the background or an imperial fist left one of the most tiniest flags on a ruined building.

>>48608440
I don't know, but I want to buy that painting only to destroy it myself.

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>>48608462
Agreed.

Let’s look at how deep into the Heresy the FW books have taken us

Book 1: Isstvan III - 005.M31
Book 2: Isstvan V - 006.M31
Book 3: Isstvan V, Paramar V - 006.M31; Phall – 007.M31
Book 4: More early Heresy - 006 to 008.M31
Book 5: Calth and start of Shadow Crusade - 007.M31
Book 6: Mezoa, the Nemean, and Bodt - 008.M31; Xana II - 009.M31
Book 7: Prospero - 005.M31

Siege of Terra is 014.M31.

There are a few more things to cover in the early Heresy:
Diamat: DA attack a forge world to prevent Horus from rearming before Isstvan V, 005 or 006.M31
Mars: civil war, 005-006.M31
Thramas Crusade: NL vs DA, 007-009.M31
Signus Cluster: BA vs. Daemons, 005-006.M31
Alaxxes: SW vs. AL, 007.M31
Shadow Crusade: Angron’s ascension, 008.M31
(several locations): WS vs. DG and EC as the Scars try to get back to Terra, 005-009.M31
(several locations): WS sagyar mazan (shattered legion-style warbands) vs. traitors, 005-009.M31
I’m pretty sure Fulgrim’s ascension also happens during this period of time.
They could have Calas Typhon turn all Nurglesque as well.

Mars will probably be its own book, and it could be done later. But the rest still looks like it would take two books to cover. During that time we should get daemonic EC and DG. SoH could get daemons. With WE it’s a little questionable – even with Angron becoming a daemon prince, they don’t seem religious enough for it. However, the Blood Angels’ campaign at Signus Prime really should give us a pure Daemon list (that could be taken as allies).

I’m cutting off the “early Heresy” period at 009.M31, when the White Scars make it to Terra and the Blood Angels return to Ultramar just in time for the inauguration of Imperium Secundus. Then it’s Long March to Terra time. I have no idea if anything interesting happens during that time period.

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>>48608439
As future and forever head of of the opposition...this is worrying

>>48608494
Wonder if they'll make any sort of Early Heresy - Late Heresy distinction with the lists at any point, instead of just continuing to pile everything into the same book.

>>48608494
Daemons use their 40k rulebook for now, and I don't see that changing, to be honest.

I'm doubting anyone other than WB getting Daemons, seeing as it's their thing.

>>48607784
I just think the skull helmets look cool is all. Less concerned with the meaning behind it, though glory for the legion sounds good.

>>48607940
Having him as the lone bare-headed guy in my army though makes him stand out more on the table in a sea of gunmental. I'll toy with it once I get the pieces I'm missing.

I know the IW don't really "do" flashy, but I need something so both me and my opponent can tell stuff apart at a glance.

>>48608494

>Mars: civil war, 005-006.M31

Please anon, you don't know how much I want this.

>>48608554

You might start seeing some more daemonic stuff out of mechanicum soon, although I doubt it will be an entirely daemonic entity.

>>48608440
Look at that glorious Imperial Fist victory. Why do they have to win in every category.

Terrible 2500 pt List

Alpha Legion, Coils of the Hydra

Autilion Skorr 125

Tac Squad 175
Rhino
Artificer Armor Melta Bomb


Tac Squad 175
Rhino
Artificer Armor Melta Bomb

Seeker Squad 495
10 Man
Proteus TL Lascannons Ceremite

Seeker Squad 495
10 Man
Proteus TL Lascannons Ceremite

Rewards of Treason 1025
5x Acme Brand IVth Legion Beep Boop's

Skorr gives takes infiltrate. Gives to Seekers and Beep Boop's. Mutable Tactics: Scout

Infiltrate Seekers and Beep Boop's, Shoot things turn 1. Charge with Beep Boop's Turn 2.

Also: Hope they don't bring flyers.

>>48608762
Things imperial Fists don't win at.
1 having an alive primarch
2 having a good colour scheme
3 not walking into obvious traps
4 not killing all of your sons in an obvious trap because you're upset
5 negotiating with well armed and fence sitting forgeworlds

>>48609045
I don’t think the Beep-boops can justify costing that much. The rest of the list looks fun.

>>48609045
>Rewards of Treason 1025
>5x Acme Brand IVth Legion Beep Boop's
Top kek.


I wish to see them painted in Alfalfa legion colors.

>>48609379

I will probably never make this list since i am poor but if I do, I was actually debating using Blood Raven colors desu

>>48609401
Wat.

>>48609420

Blood Ravens with stolen Beep Boops.


Not sure why desu showed up.
I am very confused why it's there....

>>48609454
You don't know about the weab filters?

Anyone ever tried converting right hand Catapharctii lightning claws into power fists? I need right handed power fists and only thing I can come up with is to attempt to convert the claws into fists. Possibly by clipping the claws into stubbier fingers or something.

>>48609454
it's t b h

>>48609504
Why do you need right handed fists?

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>>48609493
I haven't, desu

>>48609553
Because I'm converting Grave Wardens and want to use the chainfist arms for the grenade launchers, and since Wardens come with fists standard, they have to go on the right arm.

>>48609072
Also add:
6. Hydra Cordatus
7. Hydra Cordatus 2: Iron Boogaloo

>>48609653
Forgive me, but could you decipher that for me? Grave wardens come with right handed grenade launchers attached to the fist, do they not? Are you intending to change which hand the weapon is held in and then uses right handed fists?

>>48610031
Grave wardens have a big grenade launcher mounted onto the right arm and a power fist on the left.

Instead of buying Wardens, I want to convert the models I have into Wardens. After going through several options, I've come to the conclusion that taking a chainfist arm, cutting off the chainsaw blade and attaching a cut down IG grenade launcher to it will make a decent enough grenade launcher. But the chainfist is on the left arm, so I need a power fist for the right. Only fist like thing available for cataphractii are the lightning claws. I'm just wondering if there's any way of turning them into fists without looking like ass.

>>48610103
If you're good with a knife and greenstuff, yes. Granted, as a DG player I personally would buy the models, but hey, that's up to you.

>>48610801
Then what do I do with all these cataphractii? My Elite slots are already full and I got a terminator bodyguard. Also, fuck resin.

>>48610913
Let me guess.

You bought into the meme that you needed 2 BaCs, didn't you?

For DG, all you need is Typhon, and a crapload of Deathshrouds and Grave Wardens.

>>48610974
>You bought into the meme that you needed 2 BaCs, didn't you?

No, I just got one. It came with all I needed, but the catapractii are extra and only slot I can fit them into is the Heavy one.

>>48611122
Oh, alright. If you haven't built/painted them you could probably put them on ebay or somewhere for less than the ridiculous price GW is charging for their BaC solo kits.

>>48611140
Why? I want to use them. Chainmail tabards, vets on the torso, all that. Only problem are the arms and if I just buy the launchers online, I have to buy the fists as well (since the FW models come with chainmail on the shoulders rather than leather straps), and that'll get expensive for minimal returns.

>>48611209
Oh, sorry I thought we were talking about the Grave Wardens? I'm confused.

>>48611331
I have 6 BaC cataphractii and only slot I can put them in is Heavy Support as Grave Wardens. And I sort of want to do that, since they fit well enough into the army. So I just have to figure out how to do the grenade launchers and so far the best conversion idea I've found has been to use the chainfists with IG launchers, but that means the power fist has to go on the left arm.

Unless you got a good conversion idea on how to put the launchers on the right arm. Plain IG launchers wielded pistol style feel rather bland and so far I haven't found any good 3rd party alternatives.

>>48611331
He wants to use the models he has (regular cataphractii termies) as grave wardens. He needs right handed power fists, because he intends to use left handed chainfists to convert to grenade launchers. He's asking if anyone knows a good way to convert right handed lightning claws for cataphractii into power fists. Anything else I can help with?

>>48611441
>go on the left arm

Right arm.

>>48611441

It is probably easier to keep the PF on the right arm and convert the liightning claws.

Looking as the sprues you could cut off the claws themselves, leaving the gauntlet and use the bolter hands with a single barrel and the two ammo drums underslung

>>48611441
Oh, I see.

Well, I dunno what to do then. To be honest, I'd just get the Grave Wardens and when you want to do smaller point games, do an all terminator PotL list, Termi Troops with Grave Warden HS.

>>48609072
1 primarch is alive
2 meant to walk into the trap
3 not negotiating with possible traitors is not a demerit

>>48610974

I bought 2 BaC, I want to spam blob squads and the contemptors seemed pretty good AT...

>>48611757
Don't they have his skeleton cast in amber on the phalanx? Plus brining back IF primarch would be lame.

>>48611783
Old codex retconned to just a hand. Vulkan tells the last imperial fist that he'll let Dorn know his son is doing his chapter justice. Upcoming book will feature him as leasing the custodes. I agree with him staying dead but what can you do at this point.

>>48611811
>leasing
Did you mean to say "leading" or does Dorn actually lease their services out so they get exercise instead of hanging around the palace all day?

>>48611762
Maybe with like lascannons?

I like how 35-80% of 30k threads are memes not fa/tg/uy neck beards arguing about two rules interacting. But when someone has a legit question about how good their list is, its actually a decent conversation.

tl:dr 30k best general.

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>>48611811
Wow.
Dorn went from having his skeleton in amber and a dumb unwieldy chainsword to having a hook hand and nice rules. Quite an upgrade, he's like reverse Mortarion.

Wait, can't Primarchs regrow limbs?

Greetings /hhg/! In ancient threads past I was a lowly nood who's got Horus for my birthday and figured I'd start SoH. Since then I've gotten an idea for my army, by reading Fear to Tread.

I want to try and run my SoH with BA allies and run a "Hammer and Anvil" type army, BA running jump troops and stormeagle's and SoH running terminators and tanks.
To that end I've got a 2000pt SoH army thrown together, what do you guys think? Also I'll mostly be fighting 40K armies with this (DA, AdMech and non-decurion Necrons). Also running Horus since I already have him and to save some beaverbucks

SoH, Primarch's Chosen 2000pt

Horus the Warmaster 500pts

Legion Centurion135pts
Cataphractii Armour, Power Fist
Primus Medicae

x10 Justaerin Terminators
x5 combi-plas

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad
Legion Vexilla, 2 Heavy Bolters
Rhino
Artificer Armour
Marksman

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad
Legion Vexilla, 2 Heavy Bolters
Rhino
Artificer Armour
Marksman

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought
Dual Kheres Assault Cannons

2 Legion Javelin Attack Speeders
Twin-Linked Lascannons

Legion Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron
Laser Destroyer Array

1995/2000pts

Don't really know where to put the last 5pts. All C&C welcome, you guys were awesome with help before hope you can help this time!

>>48611762
>good AT
>Assault Cannons or Multi-Melta
>in the game with Armored Ceramite
At least you'll kill TEQ and MEQ.

Though, for about $9 more you can get any loadout you wanted and the Legion specific contemptors instead of the solo ones.

Seriously, does GW think anyone will be monopose dread with only two different gun options?

>>48611861
I meant leading but i like your cannom better.
>>48611905
Wouldn't call it an update, he should have stayed dead. But no they can't, unless you're space god negro.

>>48611999
>But no they can't
Fulgrim regrew a foot during one of the EC short stories, IIRC, so there's a nonzero probability that other primarchs could replicate such a feat.

>>48611929
Well, with the update now Primus Medicae CAN'T take power fists, so you may have some more points to spend.
Also, Horus gives your legion +1Ld. Maybe you could ditch the vexillas IF you need yet more points?

>>48611966
>Assault Cannons or Multi-Melta
>in the game with Armored Ceramite

How does AC stop Rending? And who puts AC on lighter vehicles?

You can always buy any of the Contemptor arms from FW and they go onto the plastic arms with little to no effort. Or get 3rd party guns. Or convert the guns that they come with. One can have dual assault cannons just fine. The Multi-Meltas are quite easy to convert into lascannons with a barrel swap and some alterations to the gun body.

>>48612036
That's ridiculous, but even among the Primarchs Fulgrim's healing was greater than the rest.

>>48611999
Said upgrade, not update.
Also, didn't Angron re-attached his arm once or something?
If Dorn lost his hand, surely they could get him a vat-grown one like they do with regular marines.
>>48612072
Rending cannot explode things. However, Melta isn't so bad. You could scare your enemy into spending a lot of points on AC.

>>48612084
>Fulgrim's healing was greater than the rest.
Mind some sauce there, friendo? All Primarchs are superhuman and have IWND.
If Fulgrim could take a headshot and recover, so could all the others, especially Vulkan and Mortarion.
Magnus heals his spine and repairs his eye (but maybe that was magik).
I think Curze heals his spine twice. That's two separate instances of paralysis to regular people.

>>48612036
Wait what? Why is Fulgrim regrowing feet, and why did he need to in the first place?

>>48612072
Eh, I just felt like ranting. Especially after doing a price conversion between FW's contemptors and GW's monopose ones.

>>48612127
Iirc, Perturabo said it in Angel Exterminatus.

>>48612092
>Rending cannot explode things.

It still allows you to penetrate AV14 and gives you 12 shots to do so with. Since when has dual kheres contemptor become shit? Make it a Mortis and now you can shoot down flyers as well.

>>48612179
Lucius some other EC officers found out about Fulgrim's daemonic possession, dogpiled Fulgrim, and chained him to a table. They then had the brilliant idea of forcing the daemon out through torture. Except Fulgrim had apparently retaken control some time ago and he was just fucking with them the entire time. The captains laughed, Fulgrim laughed, Eidolon got a Laeran necktie, and everyone had a jolly time. Except Eidolon.

Source: The Reflection Crack'd.

>>48611966

Monopose Dread is fine.
3 weapon options is fine.

For $25 US, $30 Max.

Instead they are MSRP for $60 which is stupid as shit.

>>48612182

It's fine, you're allowed to rant about the Monopose 60$ dread. It's like them selling 10 of the old snap fit marines for 55$

>>48612278
He meant it terms of Vehicle damage table.
Yes, rending will glance things to death, but you will not get an explode result

>>48612278
No one is saying Dual Kheres is shit, relax.
I only wanted to prevent someone else missing that bit of info, like what happened with FunkyRatDemon.

>>48612318
>He meant it terms of Vehicle damage table.

I'm fully aware of that, but not everything needs an Explodes result to get destroyed. Nor does Ceramite have any effect on Rending.

>>48612092
I'm on my phone so autocorrect is a bitch. Hopefully they'd just strap on a massive fist with 8 digits that spell out imperial

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>>48612802
8 digits you say? >:3

>>48612299
They literally shoved a 10 foot spiked cattle prod up his ass and Fulgrim the whole time was giving them pointers on how far it should get shoved it.

That asside the fuckboi already had a deamon in him which could account for the regeneration

>>48609045
You need three troops choices with Coils

>>48612827
GET IT AWAY! REEEEEE!

That poor snek.

>>48612839
>They literally shoved a 10 foot spiked cattle prod up his ass and Fulgrim the whole time was giving them pointers on how far it should get shoved it.
I know they snorted soylent people mixed with cocaine, but "giving them pointers on how far it should get shoved it" still gets my sides. I can't believe how all of this is canon.

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>>48611905
He has to have been captured, given where he was.

One day they'll find him, give him his Imperial Fist back, and that will give him the strength (or opposable thumbs) needed to break out of the theurgy chains Perturabo keeps him in. Then it's on!

But I kind of hope not. The Imperium being handed to normal men (who are also idiots) is a major theme of the post-30k setting. If primarchs have to come back, let it be primarchs who aren't leaders on a strategic scale. The 40k Imperium is more fun without someone at the helm. Bring back Russ or the Khan.

>>48612839
>already had a deamon in him
I thought the whole point of the story was that Fulgrim had already exorcised himself and put the daemon back in the painting.

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>>48612948
>He has to have been captured, given where he was.
Then maybe Perturabo himself has him, and he's torturing him (but being a masochist he..."endures" it).
After all, Lysander escaped naked from an IW fortress.
>Even naked you can escape from an IW fortress.
That...doesn't speak too well of the IW, does it.

>>48612092
I know it's a fat chance, but isn't Rending treated as AP2 so get +1 on damage table?

>>48613390
Nope. Stays whatever AP, just +1d3 damage

>>48613390
>but isn't Rending treated as AP2
But ONLY against armour saves; against AV it stays whatever AP it originally was.

>>48613452
I miss the old days of rending pens were AP2

>>48614544
I miss the old days when Rending was +D6 on a 6 to hit. And terminator squads could have 2 heavy weapons in a 5 man squad.

How would 2 missile launchers go in a vet squad? I feel like too many players default to heavy bolters.

>>48614588
Depends on what you give them. I think most people want 3 shots at BS4 over a blast when it comes to chasing those Rending hits.

>>48614588
I dunno. I prefer HBolters because lolpinningwillneverdoanythinginald9environmentyoubitteridiot. Also it looks cooler to me.

But yeah. Maybe the ability to hurt some other things a little easier?

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>>48614580
We have to go back

>>48612948
>back when primarchs were just badass commanders
I miss it.

>>48614607
3 shots at BS4 will usually only hit twice. A small blast should easily get 2 hits and has the potential for much more if you're firing at a unit that just deepstriked and is base to base. Add to that an extra 6 inches of range and S8 for vehicle hunting.

>Have money for new stuff
>Stuff I want is sold out
Why doesn't Forge World want my money?

>>48614880
What stuff is it you want?

>>48614880
you can still place an order, I think? I haven't ordered from FW in a while.

do you guys play 40k as well? I'm about finished with building up my Imperial Fists/Knights and I'm not a big fan of buying too much for the same faction...so I'm looking toward my next project while finishing up this one. Dark Eldar Haemonculus Covens have caught my eye recently...

>>48614997
Knight anon, you're going to lill your wallet.

Also DEldar suck now. FAQ nerfed them hard.

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You guys get any hobby stuff done today?

>>48615044
luckily I always wuss out before committing to something. so my wallet is okay, but I'm probably gonna die single.

>>48615104
Nope. I've said it before but I forgot to get Imperial Primer, so I'll have to wait for it to go below 110 and down to less than 80. So maybe mid-September or early-October for me.

Fortunately I just found out about Chaosium's free solo adventure and quick-start guide for CoC 7e. Time to see if I like the system or not!

>>48614916
Alpha Legion dice. I was gonna get them, transfers, and headhunters :<

>>48615204
Brother, those Meme Legion dice are the best.

A shame about Headhunters being made even less useful now.

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>>48615204
Id beware of the headhunter kit if I were you

>>48615218
Gonna distribute them as bits across my Seekers and Iron Havocs Rewards
>>48615223
FW and GW bretty good about replacing their fuckups afaik

>>48615249
>Gonna distribute them as bits across my Seekers and Iron Havocs Rewards
For some reason, I cannot comprehend what you are saying.

>>48615532
Taking Headhunters heads and torsos, then modeling Seekers and Iron Havocs (a unit I chose for Rewards of Treason) out of them

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>>48615104
Been trying to meet my "one mini a day," quota.

Still need to do edge weathering on the armour plates and finish highlighting the gold. The hand is magnetised so that's why it looks all chewed up, when the combi bolter is in place its harder to see. Also need to add some more blood and put gloss varnish on the mud.

>>48615249
>FW and GW bretty good about replacing their fuckups afaik

Those aren't fuck ups though. That's what their quality is. It's not gonna get any better.

>>48615667
But I've never had a Forge World thing delivered looking like that. It usually turns out nice.

>>48615630
Oh. I'm curious as to why you'd model Havocs with those parts? Fluffing them as having Havoc training, but back in Meme Legion armor or something like that?

>>48615738
Well good luck to you then.

>>48615756
It's really just some of the heads I'm using, they have scopes and stuff that I think would work on a squad that gets -1 to enemy cover saves at BS5. Plus I'm going to equip most of the models with the new autocannons, which I think will be a great looking combo with said heads. The Seekers will get the bolters, venom spheres, torsos, and knives.

>>48615104
How should i paint my freeblade lancer?

I was thinking black with red and blue roses and some checkers

>>48615804
>stuff that I think would work on a squad that gets -1 to enemy cover saves at BS5
Skill, experience, and training. The idea that every legion has WS or BS 5 units that have those stats due to skill while Iron Warriors need special scopes to be BS 5 is pretty sad. Granted I suppose they are Alpha Legion pretending to be Iron Warriors so maybe they need some help.

>>48615982
>I suppose they are Alpha Legion pretending to be Iron Warriors so maybe they need some help.
Yeah, that one

>>48615106
What happened to the girl that was making fun of your baby-painted models?

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>>48615982
Building and calibrating special scopes is a skill!

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>>48615804
Oh.

>>48615982
>while Iron Warriors need special scopes to be BS 5 is pretty sad.
This embitters the Iron Warriors.

>>48616055
>Yeah that one.
Sure.

>>48616131
So that's the full pic. Thank you!
What year was this made?

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>>48615982
>Iron Warriors need special scopes to be BS 5 is pretty sad
Nonsense.
Those UM copies get all their stuff from their speshul scopes.
Meanwhile, no matter the amount of scopes, the Tyrants need a nigga with a dedicated Cognis Signum to make them BS5 :^)

>>48615982
>The idea that every legion has WS or BS 5 units that have those stats due to skill while Iron Warriors need special scopes to be BS 5 is pretty sad.
they're basically just press-ganged garrison troops, though.

Other legions of plebs (world eaters, word bearers, death guard) are in a similar situation, just getting around it with the nails, demons, or template weapons.

>>48616309
Other legions have members that are actually skilled soldiers/warriors. Red Butchers are damn good at what they do, a generic Palatine Blade can fight a legion champion on equal footing, Alpha Legion has Headhunters and Exodus. The only legion I can think of that lacks WS/BS 5 special units is the Death Guard who were never really known for having special elites akin to Palatine Blades or Justaerin.

>>48616353
>Red Butchers are damn good at what they do
right but they aren't learned skills, just dudes driven insane by the nails. Sort of like how the gal vorbak rely on daemonic possession to get gud

Also are death shroud not WS5? That seems strange.

>>48616386
Even then it still leaves Iron Warriors as one of the shit legions with no special elites if they have to rely on special scopes and shit to be good.
>Emperor's Children
>Ultramarines
>Alpha Legion
>Imperial Fists
>Night Lords
>Salamanders
>Raven Guard
These are the legions that have elite units without special technology or augmentation to make up for a lack of actual skill.

Also yeah Death Shrouds are WS 4, kinda weird actually since they are outnumbered by the WS 5 Phoenix Guard by 4 to 1 IIRC. Still 2 wound terminators with AP 2 at (-1) initiative for 41-45 points is a great deal even if they are WS 4. Especially since they have implacable advance, and can fill elites, HQ, bodyguard, or troops slots. Really weird how many you can take IIRC Death Shrouds only numbered 49 strong yet in a legal list you can theoretically take up to 130 of them.

>>48616625
should night lords even count in that list? They're only really skilled at preying on the weak.

>Even then it still leaves Iron Warriors as one of the shit legions
Well, yeah. That's part of their appeal.

>>48616642
>should night lords even count in that list? They're only really skilled at preying on the weak.
Night Raptors are all WS 5. No special augmentations, no daemons, no nails, no chimerism, just skill and innate brutality.

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>tfw just spent all my tips on gig tickets
>tfw about to spend the rest of my wages on FW models

just fuck my shit up

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>>48616720
>Tfw have to balance out my forgeworld spending with buying sigmar kits so the local redshirt doesnt get butthurt and ban forgeworld from the store.

>tfw gf moving in
>tfw no longer living paycheque to paycheque
>tfw finally going to have enough spare dosh to start an army
Now I just have to wait for my Legion to get rules.

>>48617011
Remember to spend some of it on her, anon.

Also I'll find it hilarious if WB can have more psykers than the TS. Also will be hilarious if the SW destroyer unit ends up being worse than the actual thing.

>>48617032
>Remember to spend some of it on her, anon.
I will be doing, don't think she'll be too impressed if I spend all my money on plastic space men.

WBs are massively psychic due to their chaos buffs but TSs were psychic from the very beginning. I can see TS squads purchasing brotherhood of psykers for 30 or so points or Sergeants being able to upgrade since leaders were based on psychic power rather than ability to lead or martial skill.

>>48617103
>I will be doing, don't think she'll be too impressed if I spend all my money on plastic space men.
That's a good lad.

>since leaders were based on psychic power rather than ability to lead or martial skill.
>based on psychic power rather than ability to lead
>rather than ability to lead
GIB DEM LD8! SOMETHING TO PIN, FINALLY!

>>48607521
Angels of caliban epub finally out?

>>48617131
>GIB DEM LD8! SOMETHING TO PIN, FINALLY!
Kek.

Anon, you might want to use HBolters all the time, but you aren't IF. You don't get +1BS with them or anything useful like that, and pinning against what is usually Ld9 or even 10 is futile.

>>48617199
>tfw not an SoH either for +1BS at 18" or their cool melee rule
Guess I'll just be bitter in the corner again.

>>48617192
It will never come out so long as people keep touching themselves. Ask again and I'll start fapping to make sure there's never going to be an ePub.

>>48617131
It's funny, the thousand sons were one of the few legions that admired the iron warriors. In A Thousand Sons they mention how they're impressed with the IW's precise application of force.

>>48617500
>Distrusted allies
Sorry TSons.

It's also funny because Magnus and Pert were good friends.

>>48612127
what about Sanguinius

This is something that has sorta bugged me because Vulkan is a perpetual, so
Is there really any debate on what happens if Emps dies? And like, shouldn't that be a thing for other Primarchs? Yes some of them got different features, but when you consider Vulkan, or Rowboat/Alpharius apparently healing...

>>48617760
>Rowboat/Alpharius apparently healing
Rob's healing, IIRC, is still a matter of in-universe dispute and denied by the Ultramarines, who are likely the most reliable source of info on this since they see him most often. If Rob really is regenerating, then what logical reason do the smurfs have to deny it?

No idea what new stuff has happened with the Alpha Legion but if Alpharius "healed," then the injured party was probably either a legionnaire disguised as Alpharius or Omegon pulling a bait-and-switch. Regardless, Alpha Legion fluff is so confusing and mysterious that anything regarding them is best taken with a grain of salt.

>>48617805
>Rob's healing, IIRC, is still a matter of in-universe dispute and denied by the Ultramarines, who are likely the most reliable source of info on this since they see him most often. If Rob really is regenerating, then what logical reason do the smurfs have to deny it?
Maybe they don't want the attention? Maybe they know what sort of frenzy the Imperium would be in if a Primarch was up and out stretching his legs?
>No idea what new stuff has happened with the Alpha Legion but if Alpharius "healed," then the injured party was probably either a legionnaire disguised as Alpharius or Omegon pulling a bait-and-switch. Regardless, Alpha Legion fluff is so confusing and mysterious that anything regarding them is best taken with a grain of salt.
I wonder if there are Alpha Legionaries fed up with all of the secrecy.

>>48617805

Because it's impossible for anything to change in a stasis field, because Rowboat was a very political primarch who's being back could shake up the Imperium, because they don't want that information getting out so that they would become targeted, because if he doesn't get up they look dumb, because they don't want to spread around false hope

Is the content of Betrayal at Calth and the rumored sequel a good start for a Salamander or Dark Angel army ?

>>48617979
Its a good start of any army.Note the word 'start'. you really need more vehicles and flyers before its halfway to good

>>48617979
Didn't think we knew what was in the sequel? Lots of speculation (assault marines, Mk III breachers, and so on) but didn't think they'd been anything definitive about its contents.

>>48617979
Can't comment on salamanders but it depends on how you are building your army. BaC is only obviously good if you want lots of power armoured guys, Cataphractii Terminators and contemptor dreadnoughts, I'm building a ravenwing army so BaC is useless to me. It might be good for ironwing to get a few cheap Troops in the mix.

Honestly recommending BaC to every noob who wants to start 30k is a meme, recommending 2 is just plain cruel.

It depends what Legion you pick, what armour you want to use and what Rite of War you run.

anyone else think all the first founding loyalist chapters have terrible color schemes?

>>48618026
>Iron Hands
>White Scars
>Dark angels pre-greening
>Space wolves pre-yiffing
>Alpha legion

all nice if you ask me

>>48618051
>Iron Hands
classic black and white. I'll give you a pass on this.
>White Scars
Literally no. White with yellow trim? No. Worst colors of all legions. Worse than Brazen Claws.
>Dark Angels
It's a good shade of green, but it needs better trim IMO.
>Space Wolves pre-yiffing
I'LL ALLOW IT
>No such legion
Agreed.

>>48618106
White Scars are white with red trim during the Great Crusade.

>>48618106
You're in the horus heresy thread, 40k thread is that way >>>

>>48612948
>they couldn't take away his training, his hands and feet
>his hands

>>48618106
Scars are White with a red trim and gold detailing during the heresy, as well as rolling around with animal fur and leather bling.

But you aren't mistaking us for the 40k general are you anon?

>>48618002

I think MkIII of some sort is pretty much confirmed from multiple reliable sources, Tartarus terminators from a couple too. Most alarmingly, sadpanda most reliable of all sources has said Custodes and Sisters. I'll be fucking pissed off if that's the case, what a waste.

>>48618286
>Custodes and Sisters

That's make no sense. Maybe as one of those Deathwatch/Assassins style little board games with a handful of Custodes/Sisters models on one side and some CSM and daemons on the other.

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>>48615104
I finished a big red massage machine.

I think instead of >Alpha Legion ill start another chapter as it seems mem tier. What's a fun army with a still live primarch? No SW though.
I'm that shitty conversion fag from earlier. Sorry for that ;-;

>>48611905
Yeah. Fulgrim re grew a foot. He also got raped by a bladed pear thing as well.

>>48617995
Are flyers really that important in HH ? Got the rhino, need to get more Raiders.
>>48618020
I actually don't like the current DA rites and would instead use Pride of the Legion for proto-Deathwing with Terminators and vets totting the Legion-specific gear.
>>48618002
You can find the list on BOLS but take it with a grain of salt because you know, BOLS.

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>>48618026
man you've got bad opinions

>>48614689
God that looks like shit. Thank god is some shitty recast

>>48615104
Needs more church on that base anon. Otherwise looks good.

>>48618850
>BOLS
That place is even less reliable than Faeit.

>>48618958
And the water is wet. Yes, we know. But if you want to check the rumored list you can find it there.

>>48618709
Actually, when are Thousand Sons rules coming out? They seem fun because I've always liked psychic

>>48618427
Is that one yours? Looks pretty sexy. Any close ups of the Marine?

>>48618427
If Ordinatii are so sacred to the AdMech that they have an Ordos dedicated to them...why are they sometimes used only once? Titan god-machines fight on many worlds, while some Ordinatii have even been hidden.

>>48619010
But what's the point? Said list means fuck all, it's been made up by someone at BOLS to get clicks.

>>48619227
>why are they sometimes used only once
It's possible that some of the techpriests are simply too incompetent to design ordinatus weapons that can survive more than one use.

>>48619271
>but what proof do you have that its not true? Burden of proof is a lie made up by liberal cucks!
He's been shitposting for the last dozen threads, ignore him

>>48619227
>why are they sometimes used only once

They're so good you only need to use them once.

Also, because if they were more common than Titans, GW would need to start making models for them. If they're rare and pushed to the rear of the fluff, they can pretend they barely exist.

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>>48619068
yep, It is a SoH master of singal

>>48618356

Yeah, seems mad to me too, but he's a rumourmonger that's never been wrong. It'll be fucking annoying if he's right, but I'm preparing myself for disappointment, which is always a good idea whith GW.

>>48619010
>>48619271

Bolter and Chainsword have a pretty exhaustive thread about it, try that out for something with more reliable information.

>>48619351
Looks really good, i like the back pack modifications and the auspex thing on his leg.

>>48618356
>>48619481
If it is custodes & sisters, would that mean the box would likely be delayed until Inferno comes out (which could even be in early 2017)? It would be odd to put out plastic minis for custodes/sisters before the long-awaiting forgeworld book containing them comes out.

>>48619290
>>48619317
Aaawww, given how they are so rare (and powerful, given how they're a Titan-sized gun) they should be requisitioned to the most dangerous warzones.
Albeit a dual turbolaser Warhound inflicts more damage than an Ordinatus Minoris Saggitar. But rule of cool.
Ordo Reductor, Centuria Ordinatus and Myrmidon Auxilia; why does the setting tries to ignore my favorite parts of the Mechanicum?
There's no place for Dakkamancers, they want us to be traitor Cybernethica

>>48617011
Ikr? Just happened to me as well. I'm gonna buy a kharybdis

>>48619562

Reliable rumourmongers point to it coming later this year, before the Warzone Fenris Tzeentch stuff for 40k.

>You'll have a plastic Ahriman before you'll have a plastic Magnus. Probably painted in red though.

>>48619597

Are there any notable loyalist mechanicum characters yet?

I remember Caleb Decima, and when thr Mars Civil War book drops they will probably get that one waifu.

>be me
>applying at university
>fill out online application forms, etc.
>get email from a guy literally called Magnus saying that I'm in
Looks like I'm going to Prospero now lads

>>48620175
Enjoy your witchery
What career?

>>48620168
Are we talking about the tabletop game or the fluff? If it's the latter, the Mechanicum novel features Koriel Zeth, that Maximal guy, and plenty of loyalist Titan/Knight jockeys.

Speaking of which, are named Titan crew upgrades a thing yet? Is it possible to upgrade a Titan with a named princeps like you would with Pask and a tank?

>>48620168
Out of 4 characters, Decima is the only loyal one. He's a nice way to get a (Arch) Magos Reductor without needing to buy two Thallax squads, and his Haywire on the go is nice...but his stats are pleb tier.

>>48620202
material science

>>48620235
Is that the opposite of theheretical physics?

>>48619631
Really makes no sense, unless it's a game of a few Custodes and SoS vs. some traitors and daemons Deathwatch/Assassin style.

Fuck that, gimme MkIII, phagets!

>>48620431
Anon, I've seen a future where there will be no plastic mk3 because of how rude you were in that last post. On the plus side Dorn's model will come out sooner than expected.

>>48620255
You know all the bullshit science babble armor custom land raiders get?

Materials Science learns how to make that shit

The rumorus mention MkIII assault marines. How does that work?

>>48620505
Alright you're going to need to make an offering to FW under a red sun while feeling invincible, and at least $50,000 dollars. Don't ask how this works because the ritual on making the rumor true was pretty vague.

>>48620168

You mean Koriel Zeth, Forge Mistress of Magma City, who forced a major contingent of Dark Mechanicum and a Titan Maniple, lead by an Imperator to invade the city before she fucking dumpstered them all into the active volcano it was built on?

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>>48620235
SANCTUS METALLUM

>>48620565
>caused an Imperator to die
Remove her tubs, and do something more pleasing to the Machine God than simply burning her at the stake or stoning her. She's unfit to watch a Titan Daycare, so what do we do?>>48620594
I love how even Mars has a skull face.

>>48620489
Well good for you! Make it grav or put wings on it and I shall soothe its aching spirit.

>>48612092
>If Dorn lost his hand, surely they could get him a vat-grown one like they do with regular marines.
It's more like his hand lost the rest of his body.

>>48620610
>>48620565
Do you think the rulebooks or HH novels will ever explain the chain of events that got Aquila Ignis' cannon dumped on Kronus? It must have been one hell of a road trip.

>>48611757
>2 meant to walk into the trap
People don't actually believe this meme do they? It's such an important part of IFs/IWs history that turns it from a one sided rivalry to a full on rap beef.

>>48620655
I remember Mila Jovovitch regrowing her whole body out of a hand :^)
No but srsly, where's the rest of his body? I've seen and read enough to know that no corpse means someone is faking his death.

>>48620610

It was a traitor Imperator...
That solo'd a Loyalist Maniple or 1 Warlord, 2 Reavers and 3 Warhounds...
It wanted to take the Warlord alive but they chose death before dishonor and torched off their reactors and went nuclear while the Imperator was standing over them.
This only made the Imperator angry...

>>48613009
I took it as he took control of the deamon and pushed it to the far back

>>48620680
It was a dare. Perturabo dared Dorn to walk into his magical realm, Dorn accepted, taking it as a test to his whole legion.
If anything, it makes it even dumber.

>>48620696
>I took it as he took control of the deamon and pushed it to the far back
ECfags actually believe the words of a Daemon pretending to be Fulgrim

>>48620489
>>48620594
Yeah you get it
I'm actually thinking of getting the ad mech symbol for my car

>>48620678
Wait the novel about Eliphas didn't explain that?
>>48620687
>angry Imperator
Sucks to be Mars then.

>>48620168
Rho-mu 31

>>48620723
The reflection crack'd pretty much confirms that Fulgrim is telling the truth since it is a private conversation between Fulgrim and the daemon (thus no reason to lie) and the story doesn't make sense with the perspectives flipped. Honestly BL is utter shit anyway if they wanted Fulgrim to be free of the daemon why even keep the daemon in the fluff, just say he became an asshole over time because of his superiority complex and pride.

>>48620708
I just feel like it's such a slap in the face to the IWs, the IFs completely fucked them over repeatedly during the Crusade and the Iron Cage was the IWs finally getting one over on the canary looking motherfuckers.

Not to mention it gave Dorn a much needed lesson in humility, if he just knew all along it loses so much of its emotional impact.

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Ayyyyyyy.

>>48620730

Don't worry, Koriel dumpstered the whole city after it fell and the Imperator drowned in lava... Which surprisingly didn't immediately kill it either, it had to be slowly melted down while flailing in an active volcano.

>>48619227
The part that doesn’t make sense is having an Ordo dedicated to them.

In old Epic fluff, Ordinatuses are improvised defensive weapon platforms. Have a spare titan weapon lying in the workshop? Weld it onto a large pair of tracks, toss a void shield generator on there – boom, you’ve got an Ordinatus Minoris. Oh, you have a nova cannon meant for a starship? You’re going to need a bigger platform – now you’ve got an Ordinatus Majoris. But they’re unwieldy vehicles with little defense if the shield goes down, so they usually defend their forge world and then get put in a garage/temple until the next time the planet is attacked.

>>48620783
If it's of any interest, there's rumours of a new plastic 40k kharn in september.

>>48620783

>chainaxes aren't free

>>48620909
I was gonna mash the two kits together to do him a little farther down the Berserker rabbit hole but still in the Heresy-era, a new 40k version would be too Chaos-y.

>>48620766
Huh? The Fists were no stranger to offensive sieges, and it doesn't take a genious to know that taking on a legion that had time to dig in and prep would be darn fucking difficult.
But he was emotional (no one in the Imperium cried harder than him after the Emperor's...ascencion) and wanted personal revenge.
So, he sent alone, to test him, rather than accepting the help of the thousands of UMs that were mow available.
If it had come to me, I would have simply Exterminatus the planet.
>>48620877
>The part that doesn’t make sense is having an Ordo dedicated to them.
No one can deny the giant Wonder Weapons' allure.
If you already put a starship sized gun in some tracks and shielded it, either mount it on a starship after the battle ended or move it to the next battlefield, don't fucking store it in a garage!

>>48620783
Z has shit quality compared to pillpitt, his prices are better too for the most part

>>48621098
I've ordered from him several times and his casts have always met or exceeded FW quality in my experience.

>>48620680
Dorn was fully aware that it would decimate his legion, probably didn't know it was a trap though.

>>48620766
Dorn didn't need a lesson in humility, he was humble as fuck. His legion was the closes knitted one so he threw them into a meat grinder against the corpse grinder so they would have terrible PTSD and be more willing to break up into chapters.

>>48619227
Keep in mind that while an Ordinatus Minoris can probably be shipped in a Titan transport, a Majoris is so enormous they're usually not portable (there are exceptions, but not many). As a result they often stay on the world they were built on, worshipped in one of the forge temples as relics of the machine.

>>48621263
Imagine rowboats face when he was expecting a legions worth of chapters but only got around 7. The fact that they were cut off from all reinforcemen

>>48621263
>things fisters believe

>>48621285
Reinforcements for weeks and oert was ofnly able to obtain a few hundred gene seeds is a real slap in the face.

>>48621293
From the head fisters mouth himself. "We will all enter the pain glove collectively" or something along those lines.

>>48621269
In the novel Titanicus (not 30k, I know), the titan legion brings a mobile command center with them that’s basically Ordinatus Majoris sized. Epic had a couple of massive tracked vehicles for the Imperial Guard, too. They’d still fit in anything that can carry a large titan. On the other hand, Minorises are smaller than a Warhound. So it’s not that they aren’t portable.

I think it’s more that they don’t have enough mobility to be useful in an offensive capacity. And since they’re built for desperate defense situations, they become holy icons inextricably linked to the forge world. It might be sacrilege to take them away.

(Xana is perfectly okay with sacrilege.)

>>48621323
How many of the HH novels have you read? In most of them he's an arrogant, self aggrandizing dick.

The whole reason Perty was so salty at him was because he kept showing up to sieges where the IWs had been bleeding for months, then storming them while the IWs prepared to storm them then took all the credit.

>>48621429
>And since they’re built for desperate defense situations
Wasn't Ordinatus Mars (Ullator sonic weapon) built for an offensive siege? Not saying you should take it away...but you shouldnt starve an attack Ordinatus' bellicose machine spirit.
If it wants to shoot its laser, then let it shoot it, aim it in the right direction.
>>48621269
Ordinatii are meant to be those german railroad guns on space, right? I would think mobility would become less of an issue when you have huge space ships that can do warp jumps.

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>>48621566
Yeah, it looks like a lot of them were used in sieges… they weren’t defensive after all.

>>48621447
Literally all of them. Not his fault he's better at taking a fortress. The only way he comes off antagonistic is that he can't tell a lie and he never underestimates what him and his legion can do.

>>48621685
>The only way he comes off antagonistic is that he can't tell a lie and he never underestimates what him and his legion can do.
Nigga, even Pinoccio was better at doing conversation than Dorn
>Hey Dorn, knowing how Perturabo here prides himself on taking all fortresses, could you make a fortress so good not even he could take it?
>Do I look like Russ to you? I love the Imperium and everything in it, including my brother Perturabo, and I find it offensive that you would suggest a scenario where brothers would again be against each other. We all swore an oath that we would never speak again of such things.
There, bffs end up building the Imperial Palace together, Terra is surrounded by razor wire in space and the Fists fleet is never decimated, so that Horus gets fucked even before arriving to Terra. Fin.

>>48621685

That's debatable, are Dorns offensive MO tends to veer in favor of decapitation strikes, sort of like SoH but with more teleportation and boarding shields.

The IFs have represented a sort of holier than thou crusader theme while the IWs come across as logistics specialists standing beside massive siege weapons. Only one of those doctrines require extensive specialization in to be effective. Anyone can be killy in close combat, not everyone can handle the strain protracted sieges have on morale as well as material.

>>48621566
the trouble is, like >>48621429 said, pretty much all of them were built for a very specific task in a specific battle, most may not be allowed to be moved by the Mechanicum itself, they're essentially part of the world that spawned them.

That's not to say that some of them haven't been used on other worlds (but most probably have not).

>>48621934
What was the point of IW when Emps already had IF and DG? You don't need to be a marine to be able to fire huge siege guns.

>>48621992
Originally the DG weren't siege specialists, as the Dusk Raiders would attack at dusk in surgical strikes. With Morty at the helm, they became a Zone Mortalis force, clearing place room by room instead.

>>48621992
I think the Imperial Army was a backup plan - it sounds like Emps thought he could conquer the galaxy using just marines.

>>48622045
And original IW were only knows for how shit they were. Even Perturabo couldn't change that. They failed as a legion even harder than World Eaters.

>>48621934
Dorn was an bastion builder and Perturabo was a battle logistician – jobs that are meant to complement each other.
The Fists the anvil establishing and holding the breaches, the IWs the Olympian hammer, their men not shying from the meatgrinder, while also pummeling them from afar with their skilled artillerists.
I mean that's what, in a way, the SoHs and DG were doing.
>>48621992
>>48622045

>>48622090
The oringinal IW didn't really fail as a legion moreso that they were extremely honor based and thought that to retreat would be the same as a defeat, iirc, which is what caused them to have massive casualties. The Corpsegrinders earned their name from using Imperial Army units as cannon-fodder, however. Not from their own casualties as you'd think.

>>48622144
I wonder which legion inducted the largest number of marines – i.e., which would be the biggest if none ever died. Would it push the IW above the UM?

>>48621992
Not to mention that Ordo Reductor was better than any of them.

>>48621992
The Imperial Fists are not siege specialists for one. The death guard are not siege specialists either.

If we look back, when the legions where all comprised of terrans, each legions demeanor and direction became apparent early on in their first engagements.

The Imperial fists have always been honorable martial exemplars while the Iron Warriors or "Corpsegrinders" displayed a similar if somewhat more extreme code of honor. Their distinction for adhering to their word while shoving shells down range has been there thing since day one. The death guard are exemplars of resilience, for them it's about surviving where others couldn't.

The Iron Warriors adhered to their orders and made it a point to win wars their way, through the expenditure of resources.

>>48622175
Depends. Is it cheating if the smurfs still have all of Ultramar as a recruiting pool?

>>48621992
Big E needed some smart dudes to shot big guns at walls before throwing themselves at it.

Smurfs are alleged to have taken in the remains of at least one of the lost legions.

>>48621934
IF were more shooty than stabby. Their way of waging war was much more effective given their superhuman abilities. Sure IWs could sustain a bombardment better but they could literally leave a single legionair with an Imperial Army artillery corp and have the same effect.

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>>48622088
>>48622144
Heh, nobody likes the Imperial Army, you should know that much.

>>48622175
>Would it push the IW above the UM?
Hell yes. It was pretty dumb the IW didn't try to swell its numbers by being a little harder to kill.
Conservation of ninjutsu and stuff.

>>48622609
>demanding artillery to hold the line

Why must IH be so shit?

>>48622175
Probably World Eaters honestly. They recruited from fucking everywhere and likely suffered higher casualties than any legion since their tactics were suicidal assaults and battles ended relatively quickly.

>>48622088
And then what? You retire the legions and leave the Imperium without a fighting force. You're also wasting Marines in mop-up action and garrisoning planets when they could be leading the charge. By the end of the Crusade the Army was already going on the offensive and patching up the ever stretching lines of the legions.

>>48622943
>You retire the legions and leave the Imperium without a fighting force.
You keep them as military police. Honestly Emp's whole plan made no goddamn sense.

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When you can't decide what to order from Forgeworld

>>48623200
Knight Anon stop being a faggot and just remake your entire army in MkII and MkIII.

Or buy the IF command squad.

I am bitter about other legions having their own versions of generic stuff.

>>48623200
nice meme faggot

>>48623286

You may not like IF but that is no reason to call them Meme Faggots...

>>48623434
Except they are meme faggots. Worst legions represented in this thread.
1. Iron Warriors
2. Alpha Legion
3. Imperial Fists
Everyone else is fine really.

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>>48623579
>Everyone else is fine really.
>Word Bearers

>>48623653
Word Bearers aren't a shitty meme legion.

>Beep Boop
>So bitter
>Decimating

>Muh Alpharius
>I'm Alpharius
>Everybody's Alpharius

>Knight Anon
>Dorn was just pretending to be retarded

>>48621098
Pillpitt has also dropped off the face of the earth

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>>48623653

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>>48623690
To pretend one is retarded is retarded itself, but everybody was aware of that...right?
>Word Bearers aren't a shitty meme legion.
>Boohoo, Emps spurned my adoration, gotta suck daemon cock.

>>48623799
Word Bearers don't post their shit 24/7. Also most of them seem to agree that Lorgar was a crybaby and an idiot.

Can't decide which Legion to pick, I'm torn between Dark Angels and Alpha Legion I think. Dark Angels are my favorite loyalist chapter, but their color scheme during the Heresy is just so lame. Alpha Legion is probably my favorite of the traitors, but I don't know much about the other traitor legions. Also trying not to pick a legion already being played in my play group.

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Are tarantula batteries any good?

Im considering running 2 lascannon batteries with my infiltrating alpha legion list

>>48624034
>Not liking the DA's original color scheme
>Not liking the Consecrators color scheme
Shame upon ye!

Alpha Legion is pretty cool, but if you don't know much of the other legions you should read up on them first to get a feel for them, see if they interest you.

Also, what legions are played at your group currently? Curious. If you want to play a legion that's already being played then you could declare your forces traitors/loyalists if you wanted, and even use the Orphans of Betrayal or Outcast Sons RoWs, though I don't know how good they are.

>>48624177
Off the top of my head (and being told by a friend), I only know the ones not being played: Alpha Legion, Night Lords, White Scars, Ultrasmurfs, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons. Probably a few more.

>>48624034
If you go with Dangles you can have the Ark of the Covenant.
>>48624177
Don't the Angels of Vengeance also retain the DAs' original color scheme.

>>48623088
>You keep them as military police.

MPs can't defend your entire realm. You need a standing army with fighting men.

>Honestly Emp's whole plan made no goddamn sense.

Do explain.

>>48624079
>Are tarantula batteries any good?

Don't think so, Tim.

>>48624177
>>48624283
I got the exact legions being played: Emperors Children, Death Guard, Iron warriors, Salamanders, Iron Hands, Sons of Horus, and World Eaters. As you can see there is quite a few people playing Traitor Legions.

>>48624309
Ark of the Covenent? What?
>My son Lion, we are entering a new era of rational thought, mankind has no need for the dogma of religion now.
>But btw, keep this safe, it's like totally a religious artifact.

>Emps wants marines to become military police when the Great Crusade ends! This is madness!
Implying the xenocide will ever end, The Beast proved it.
Exterminate all Eldar and Orks...only to have to deal with Necrons and Tyranids.
First exterminate all xenos, then you can start worrying about how astartes will spend their afternoons.

>>48624079
>>48624397

Mech ones are nice since you can stick a battlesmith next to them and override there firing protocols and shoot at anything.

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>>48624502
>>But btw, keep this safe, it's like totally a religious artifact.
Implying the original Ark of the Covenant wasn't some sort of archaeotech weapon.

>>48624502
It's a Dangle relic called the Pyrix Extasis that resembles a box apparently made in the Dark Age of Technology that is incredibly Ark of the Covenant like.
>>48624556
This. I choose to believe the Ark was embedded with some of Emps power, and was kept safe until He found someone worthy of being the new owner.
>yfw at the end of the Heresy Dangles are asked by Imperial High command on where the Pyrix Extasis is
>yfw they tell them that it is being studied by top men
>yfw somewhere deep within the Rock Watchers in the Dark push the Pyrix Extasis into the same room where the Lion sleeps

>>48624380
>MPs can't defend your entire realm. You need a standing army with fighting men.
If the emperor united the galaxy there wouldn't be any major external threats. Anything like the Tyranids or Necrons could be faced by quickly increasing recruitment in the legions.

>Do explain.
Well first off we have to assume that the Emperor isn't lying unless we know for a fact that he is lying. So
1. The Emperor claims he doesn't want Space Marines or primarchs to replace humanity but at the same time he makes zero plans to get rid of either of them. Talk is made about the primarchs and marines ruling over worlds and shit but that also seems to go against his idea of not replacing humans since it would make the Imperium less an empire of humans and more an empire of transhumans and their normal human slaves.

>>48624380
>>48624660
2. The Emperor intends to create a functioning empire but gave marines and primarchs jobs that made no sense if you want to form a stable empire ruled by stable people. Was Curze supposed to wander the galaxy murderfucking people to death until the end of time? What is the point of the World Eaters or Space Wolves once the Imperium is safe and Chaos is destroyed?
3. He randomly made specific legions and primarchs more gifted than others. Why are Space Wolves the only legion to get cool werewolf powers? Why give Thousand Sons super psychic powers? Why not just make every legion a legion full of psykers like the Thousand Sons? Also why are some of the primarchs so physically different, case and point is unfortunate Lorgar, who got the short end of the stick in every way. The weakest of the primarchs, his legion had no special geneseed gifts and his psychic powers before his transfiguration were extremely underwhelming.
4. He made several of his sons full on psykers yet at the same time constantly tried to fuck over psykers. For the most powerful psyker in history he seemed to have a massive hate boner for psychic powers. And if psychic powers were so vital for his end game involving the Golden Throne why not just make Magnus near the end of the crusade instead of creating him alongside everyone else?
5. Why not put down the unstable primarchs? The Emperor had nothing to gain by keeping guys like Angron, Lorgar, and Curze around. The first and last were highly unstable and Lorgar was a religious fanatic when the Emperor was trying to eliminate religion.

>>48624462
The Dark Angels legion rules are lame (the –D3 victory points one in particular) and I’m not sure their wargear options make up for it. And you only benefit from their Rites of War if you run a very specialized –wing. But they’re still alright at the very least, and will get better (in at least a year). Just find a way to make their color scheme look interesting.

>>48624462
>quite a few people playing Traitor Legions
Traitors are generally more popular because more of them were released earlier, and they were so different from their 40k counterparts that it was like getting all-new armies. Until Book 5 came out last year, there were 8 fully-fleshed out traitor legions and 4 loyalists – 3 of whom were smashed and seem to be unpopular because of it.

>>48624660
>>48624685
Because BL wanted to "add some exciting twists" and "shake things up".
The NLs or WEs weren't meant to be idjits who had an extreme murder and flay boner.
>3. He randomly made specific legions and primarchs more gifted than others. Why are Space Wolves the only legion to get cool werewolf powers? Why give Thousand Sons super psychic powers? Why not just make every legion a legion full of psykers like the Thousand Sons? Also why are some of the primarchs so physically different, case and point is unfortunate Lorgar, who got the short end of the stick in every way. The weakest of the primarchs, his legion had no special geneseed gifts and his psychic powers before his transfiguration were extremely underwhelming.
Because maybe he didn't?
>4. He made several of his sons full on psykers yet at the same time constantly tried to fuck over psykers. For the most powerful psyker in history he seemed to have a massive hate boner for psychic powers. And if psychic powers were so vital for his end game involving the Golden Throne why not just make Magnus near the end of the crusade instead of creating him alongside everyone else?
Because one he doesn't think the current generator of psykers are man enough to be psykers. As for the Magnus bit did you see the Emperor slip Magnus a Hot Cosby, drag the red man back to Terra, and strap him in the Throne? No. He didn't. He took care of the Throne job.
>Why not put down the unstable Primarchs.
Maybe because deep down he loved his children? Look what he did for Vulkan and how he didn't go full force on Horus even after all the stuff he pulled until the very end.

>>48624852
>Lorgar getting the short end of the stick
False.

1. He looked the most like the Emperor, even moreso than Horus. This automatically makes him better than all the other primarchs.

2. He suppressed his Psyker powers, and most likely would have been the 4th strongest psyker had he not suppressed them. This is made moot after he gets his chaos blessing and uses the full extent of his powers.

3. I dunno, I just wanted to write a third bullet point.

Dangels Legion rules should be the following:

When fighting in an assault with one of the following weapons: combat blade, chainsword, heavy chainsword, power sword, Terranic greatsword, Calibanite war blade and paragon blades modelled as swords a model with this special rule adds +1 to their WS.

Makes the rule slightly more applicable and still only affects combat against the same or similar WS units.

>>48624660
Space marines ruling over planets was an UM thing. Deliverance lost showed he planned on keeping a majority of them on Terra

Curze was fucked the moment he landed on his planet and was forced to eat people. Angron was suppose to die during the great crusade, he was to big of an investment to toss away. And Logar was suppose to embrace the Imperial Truth like a fucking zealot, again because of his home planet.

Each of the legions were to work in unison leaving some to specialize, one covering the weaknesses of the other. Simple as that.

>>48624963
>1. He looked the most like the Emperor, even moreso than Horus. This automatically makes him better than all the other primarchs.
But he didn't take good enough care of himself though even he does look like Handsome Squidward.

>>48624685
>Was Curze supposed to wander the galaxy murderfucking people to death until the end of time?
A lot of the primarchs’s problems are a result of growing up where they did. That wasn’t in Emp’s plan.

>>48625014
This.

>>48625014
>>48625028
>It was all Nostramo's fault Curze ended up a murderer
Didn't Sevatar already BTFO of that argument?
>"There was no other way!"
>"Really? What other ways did you try?"

>>48624660
>If the emperor united the galaxy there wouldn't be any major external threats.

That's a massive "if". Even at its height the Imperium only controls tiny pockets of space across the entire galaxy. Vast areas of space are unexplored and probably will remain so.

Besides, the Emperor never aimed to "unify" the galaxy, only humanity. Everyone who's not human would have automatically been excluded and even if the most dangerous aliens had been eliminated, less dangerous can still put a dent into the Imperium from time to time, so a standing military will always be needed.

>increasing recruitment in the legions

Or have regular human troops with all the benefits of a golden age's wealth of technology and training.

>he makes zero plans to get rid of either of them

Surely you have sources for this. Since I remember one of the reasons some primarchs went rogue being that they didn't want to become a garrison force slowly fading into the annals of history. And Girlyman, who probably had some idea of what the Emperor would have wanted, specifically reformed the Imperium so that the Marines could not rule it. Sure, they got their own planets and have some influence, but they don't have a High Lord nor engage in Imperial politics. They are there to serve mankind, not rule over it.

>more an empire of transhumans and their normal human slaves.

18 planets rules by primarchs and their legions is far less than the 1000 worlds we have today. And that doesn't mean the Emperor didn't have plans to have the legions slowly faded away in time. Maybe have "accidents" claim primarchs one by one.

>gave marines and primarchs jobs that made no sense if you want to form a stable empire ruled by stable people

Job like destroying the enemies of the Imperium and subjugate worlds that don't want to. War isn't nice, anon, and conquest is less nice. No empire has been forged with kind words.

>>48625119
He mentioned curse took the easy way out. He never grew up with people, just watched them from afar and ate them which gave him some of their memories and moral outlook.

>>48625119
I was agreeing that some of the Primarchs' homeworlds are responsible for how they are though.

>>48625136
>He randomly made specific legions and primarchs more gifted than others.

Did you forget the bit where the primarchs were stolen by Chaos and all that? In the beginning legions were more or less identical, but time, their experiences and the leadership of the primarchs moulded them into what they became.

>For the most powerful psyker in history he seemed to have a massive hate boner for psychic powers.

Yes, because he had thousands upon thousands of years of experience and could control his powers. An untrained psyker was a danger to all and during the Age of Strife plenty of worlds that didn't go full witch hunt got daemoned. Psykers who are subjected to scrutiny and subservient to humanity are useful as astropaths and navigators. Primarchs with psychic abilities could handle them because he made sure they were created that way. Just as how the Grey Knights, which he personally engineered, are more capable psykers than most.

>Why not put down the unstable primarchs?

They were stable enough to lead armies. He had less to gain from destroying 3 whole legions, not to forget the ire he'd get from the rest for destroying them. Politics, man. Also, when you're running a war of conquest and extermination, you need madmen and butchers on your side. Even Lorgar's legion had its uses.

The Emperor did not plan for the primarchs to get stolen and him beginning the crusade without his generals, etc.

>>48625119
I wouldn’t say it was ALL Nostramo’s fault. I mean, these guys are supposed to be killers, and it makes sense that one of them is an expert in psychological warfare. There’s a time and a place for that. But he may not have been so extreme had he grown up in the Imperial Palace.

Also, we don’t know to what extent Chaos affected them during their transit to their landing places.

>>48625014
His legion existed to terrify people into obedience, that was always true.

>>48624852
>Maybe because deep down he loved his children? Look what he did for Vulkan and how he didn't go full force on Horus even after all the stuff he pulled until the very end.
Emperor so loved Angron he forced him to watch as his family was died thinking that he had abandoned them.

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>>48625119
>>"There was no other way!"
>>"Really? What other ways did you try?"
Not a single one. Didn't you hear there were no other ways? :^)

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>>48625215
>Emperor so loved Angron he forced him to watch as his family was died thinking that he had abandoned them.
He did love Angron, but well, that could have been handled differently. This topic is basically filename and pic related.

>>48625014
>A lot of the primarchs’s problems are a result of growing up where they did
Pretty much. Lorgar was supposed to be a zealot for the Imperial Truth even more than Dorn...but he grew up as a church boi.

>>48625251
Did anyone ever asked the Emperor why he didn't come down to fight alongside Angron with the War Hounds and his Custodes?

>>48625251
Or maybe Emps didn't actually care about any of his sons except the one he actually helped raise. Horus mentored Fulgrim and Alpharius while Fulgrim mentored Curze. He apparently had no problems with Ferrus getting beheaded by one of his other sons.

There is no implication that Emperor cared about any of his sons except Horus which makes sense since they were less his children and more his offspring that happened after he donated sperm. He didn't raise them, he didn't change diapers, he didn't teach them right from wrong.

>>48625324
Angron would have hated him still because instead of grand theft Angron Emps committed grand theft muh moment of glory.

>>48625324
Most likely because Nuceria was going to join the Imperium, I mean you never hear about Angron or anyone about the fight to make that world comply because there probably wasnt any, they just accepted the Imperium.

>>48624034
Night Lords

>>48624549
>>48624079
Mech also gets to put almost any gun they want on them, so you've got a lot of flexibility. It's not uncommon to have some weird amount of points floating in those lists, either, so it's not a bad idea.

>>48625354
Hell, getting rid of Angron probably got him major brownie points with them all on its own - sure, they were assholes, but they were assholes with quite a lot of tech, big E must have thought he had a win-win when he worked that deal out.

And then he found out he couldn't remove the nails.

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>>48625349
Angron was raised a gladiator. If he met humans who could fight almost as well as him, he would have wanted to know who they were, and most importantly, why they followed this "Emperor".
>>48625354
Nuceria can fucking burn for all we care.
Not only not joining Angron was a mistake, but not razing Nuceria to the ground and burning its Enslavers at the stake was one of the biggest mistakes.
I don't remember the wonders and marvels Nuceria shared with the Imperium. It was left ignored for a long time.

>>48625354
And if the Emperor cared about Angron as a son he probably would have said "Ahahahahaha. No, now I'm going to have a legion of pissed off super soldiers, and golden super duper soldiers wipe out all of your armies and rip apart all of your leaders."

>>48625454
In False Gods it mentioned Angron refused to have his Nails removed, but nowadays it seems like he'd die even without the Nails. Perhaps maybe because Angron was unwilling to have them removed he'd die.
>>48625470
>Angron was raised a gladiator. If he met humans who could fight almost as well as him, he would have wanted to know who they were, and most importantly, why they followed this "Emperor".
But did he want the Emperor's help? I don't think so.

>>48625454
>In ancient days it was classified by the Imperium of Man as a highly technologically advanced Civilised World...though current Imperial historical records do not generally state its name...This is most likely the result of an Edict of Obliteration
Oh, maybe that's why I don't remember what Nuceria contributed to the Imperium.

Well, make them bend their knee like how the IH did it at that planet which defeated the Ultramarines using those AT-ATs.

>>48625503
>But did he want the Emperor's help?
Those who reject the Emperor's help are the ones who need it the most.
Also, Angron thought the Emperor wasn't a warrior, until Kharn told him otherwise. Fighting alongside him would have been a nice bonding exercise with the gladiator-primarch.
Did Emps even see Angron again before the Triumph at Ullanor?

>>48625347
When I reach 38,000 years of age, I’ll probably forget what it was to be an angsty youth and mistakenly assume that my kids are mature enough to take care of themselves.

>>48625581
>Those who reject the Emperor's help are the ones who need it the most.
>Also, Angron thought the Emperor wasn't a warrior, until Kharn told him otherwise. Fighting alongside him would have been a nice bonding exercise with the gladiator-primarch.
>Did Emps even see Angron again before the Triumph at Ullanor?
True but Angron's pride might not have allowed it.

>>48625589
>Emperor loved his kids
>One of them straight up murders the others
Why aren't my sons more mature, of course I'm not going to feel sad about this.

>>48625581
Well they whatever they contributed they didn't contribute for too long, iirc eventually (possibly into the Heresy, not sure) Angron found out which world he'd been taken from.

I'm sure you can imagine what he did next

Can anyone post that joke story about Abaddon leaving all the heresy era stuff behind?

>>48625869
>tfw I didn't screencap it
That was hilarious.

>>48625869
Its on 1d4chan and been there for years.

New bread time, boys. >>48625946