Make Gilneas Great Again edition. Discuss the lore of the Warcraft

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>>48595596
>>48594329
Draenei are cute. Cute!

>>48596275
why are you posting pictures of pavement in a Warcraft thread?

>>48596275
>We will never have Thick Vrykul playable race

>>48596178
Will Genn finally remove corpse in Legion?

Would you play a campaign about removing the filthy shamblers from Gilneas?

>>48596648
Fuck yes. The unclean must be purged.

>>48596648
the world PvP gimmick in Legion involves Genn and Sylvanas fighting over towers in the Broken Isles

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>>48596275
Draenei are adorable.

>>48597189
YESSS

>>48596275
draenei are both the best playable race because they're the only alliance shamans, and the best, most consistent source of decent western futa

>>48597317
>only alliance shamans
Dwarves got the class in Cata. Respect the Wildhammer!

>>48597339
ah, I quit shortly after lich king, didn't know the stunties got best class

>>48597339
>>48597379
Yeah the Wildhammer and some Dark Iron started working and living with the Bronzebeards again, and both of them ahve some degree of shaman traditions. (Plus warlocks for the Dark Irons)

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>>48597317
>futa
>liking any futa
>much less giant fucking horse cock futa

>>48597427
Probably one of the best new class/race comboes to come in Cata, along with troll warlocks (never really understood why they could be mages but not locks, when the curses, shadow magic, and dealing with otherwordly entities of warlocks magic fits the trolls' voodoo thing a lot better than scholarly mage magic). Honestly makes a lot more sense than draenei shamans (Wildhammer dwarves have been established to have shamanistic traditions since WC2, so I wouldn't be surpised some Bronzebears picked it up as well, especially when you consider how useful being able to commune with elements, especially earth, would be for dwarves).

A lot of the other new class/race comboes were pretty weak, though, and felt like they kind of weakened the identity of the class (like tauren paladins, who are really only paladins mechanically, and lore-wise are more like sun-worshiping druids).

I forget, what happened to Rexxar? Is he still alive?

>>48598270
He's alive, but we haven't really seen him since TBC (where he shows up during a questline in Blade's Edge). Presumably he's still wandering around the wilderness somewhere, not giving a fuck.
WoD also has Rexxar, but I'm pretty sure that's his AU version, rather than the same guy.

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So what was the reason for Kul Tiras not being included in WoW? Was it the fact Kul Tiras NPCs were enemies of the horde levelling up in durotan? Did they just forget about it?

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>>48598414
MFW south sea xpack with the Kul Tiras NEVER EVER

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>>48597317
>be ele shaman
>still pissed off we get some random ass fist while the enh wannabe shamans get doomhammer and the ability to properly point out how much thrall is a bitch in legion
>MFW

>>48598472
>Being this butthurt
>When Blizz changed the way animations work so ele shaman can keep their fist unsheathed while casting
Am I the only one who remembers the orc shaman unit from WC3?

>want to include deliberate WoW references in my next campaign, but make them difficult for the party to get
>two members of my group actually play WoW

I'm doomed.

>>48598414
Who knows. I guess they weren't sure what to do with Kul Tiras. Maybe Blizzard thought that Stormwind could provide a better story compared to Kul Tiras.

>>48598414
Kul Tiras would have to be allied with the Alliance, and the Alliance already had a distinct advantage over the Horde in Vanilla

Come Cataclysm, they could have included it, but now they wanted the Horde to be OP because Kosak is a moron, so you still can't have Kul Tiras

>>48597189
>tfw as a DK you cannot just detain both sides and steal corpses from the local graveyard

>>48598448
Kul'tiras is very northerly.

>>48598472
I keep meaning to ask people on the beta if fist weapons can befome non-fist weapons, or better yet use staff models. Because I don't liket he idea of having my weapons so limited.

>>48598610
>play a homebrewed 5e setting my friend came up with
>by the second session he has us fighting elementals that are suddenly invading the real world
>after the session I ask him when we fight Deathwing
>n-never

>>48598414
They probably didn't include it in vanilla for time contraints and it not serving much purpose in-game (pretty much same reason Gilneas wasn't added until Cata). The best time to add it would've been Cataclysm, but now I don't really see much opportunity to do so, unless they make the entire zone into a battleground or something.

Somewhat surpsised they haven't flat-out said that it was destroyed in Cataclysm, like Zandalar island apparently was.

>>48594098
Green Klingons.

>>48598629
Sigh. I miss the days when the horde was the small underdog desperately trying to survive in a hostile world.

>>48598649
>Kul'tiras is very northerly.
Not after Cata...

Currently, fists can still only mog to fists. Which makes no sense at this point, because they've already solved all the animation issues. And changed almost all the weapon animations, too.

I just want them to be moggable with one-handers. Or, hell, I'd settle for daggers and fists getting paired up instead.

I just want the option to be a warrior that punches shit. Or a combat/outlaw rogue that has a sword in one hand and a fist in the other.

>>48598662
>three words
good reading Zoggosh

>>48598676
Yeah, it gave reason for the Horde to stick together

There's really no reason why the forsaken or blood elves would remain a part of the Horde post-Cata

>>48598628
They were right. It is a far more intrestring place to start. More importantly however, it was probally the second most developed kingdom lorewise. Mostly because warcraft 1 took place there.

>>48598554
Nope. I do too, would be very cool indeed.

>>48598689
Woops. in that case:

Green fantasy klingons.

>>48598472
Wait. You can actualy call Thrall out on something? What new spore of madness is this?

>>48598649
I'm just pissed that windwalker monks have such a goofy looking artifact weapon that you can't transmog into the good old fashioned handwraps because the handwraps are bugged in the beta.

God damn I hope they fix this shit

>>48598755
he almost dies because the Doomhammer goes "lolnope" in the middle of him fighting Fel Lord Zakuun's twin brother and jumps into Deepholm

>>48598755
Thrall has a crisis of conscience about Garrosh and loses faith in himself, causing the spirits to lose faith in him and abandon him, right in the middle of him fighting a demon

>>48596178
GILNEAS WAS NEVER GREAT!

>>48598957
t. erenas

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>>48598957
W E W L A D D I E

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I really wish that when they gave the other horde totems upgrades they had gone with this for the standard Orc totems, they look much better than the axes.

Also the dwarf totems are hideous

>>48598989
>Also the dwarf totems are hideous
Fitting, the dwarves look hideous, too.

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>Mfw I'm just a Forsaken player, hoping to do Forsaken thing being part of the great army to purge Azeroth in Her name

I'm part of the problem, isn't it ?

>>48598971
Garithos would have probally said the same thing, even before Gilneas was taken over by degenerate furries.

Also is it just me, or is Garithos basically the human version of Garrosh?

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>>48599017
Yes you are, but unlike Kosak you seem to realize this.

>>48599015
Most of the faces and the female bodies look a bit fucked up post-WoD

Not as badly fucked as the leather-X female forsaken ended up though.

>>48598946
>>48598913
Well, that sounds like a pretty promising dirrection to take his story. Altough it does give me this hilarious mental image of Doomhammer sprouting legs and jumping into Deepholm while laughing at Thrall.

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>>48599075
The furries are a plague, but it was great before it.

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>>48599017
Yes. Sylvanas is cancerous as fuck, she's basically avoided being a raid boss this long by dint of the requirement that the Forsaken be a player race.

That said, we already iced one Horde tyrant. Maybe next expansion.

>>48599109
She wasn't even THAT bad till the Kossaklysm.

>>48599109
Sylvanas was an interesting character way back when

She had plenty of moments of weakness, and even showed compassion at some points.

Now she is a raid boss in all but in-game mechanics. All likeable aspects of her personality and story have been purged

>>48599121
This is true, it'd be nice if they switched his ass to decaf and made him choose one of the following:

1. Keep the Horde leadership as generally retarded, aggressive, and/or evil.

2. Keep the Alliance leadership oblivious and/or kind of ok with whatever the Horde does.

>>48599165
>>48599109
I still live with the hope that they'll make her well written again.

Like, keep her über aggressive traits but actually trying to keep it in check to protect her people, resulting in cold war with gilneas / humans.

>>48599075
>Also is it just me, or is Garithos basically the human version of Garrosh?
>Very militaristic
>[insert own race here] supremacist
>Not very smart
>Dies like a bitch

...You know, that makes a lot of sense. Expansion where AU Garithos creates the Iron Alliance and invades MU Azeroth when?

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>Maiev is a fugitive at the end of Wolfheart after attempting to assassinate the night elf authority and successfully murdering many others

>With the new audio drama she's now commanding the watchers on the Lost Isles and was also the one to loan Cordana to Khadgar pre-warlords


Wolfheart completely and officially retconned, right? Hell, even Varian is dead now too.

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>There are people right now who don't like the Forsaken being bad guys

For someone who wants to purge all things Knaak created from WoW, Blizzard is sure putting a lot of WotA references to Legion

I've been out of the loop ever since we learned that Sylvannas becomes Warchief and Varian dies.
Any place to read up on the new lore since then or anyone kind enough to sum it up?

>>48599779
Wowpedia. And mabye tv tropes.

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WE


WUZ


KANGZ

>>48599705
>There are people here who don't realize that the only thing that makes forsaken even the slightest bit interesting is that they don't have to be bad guys

>>48600163
Working with others to further their goal Forsaken are best Forsaken

>>48600163
>>don't have to be
>>but almost invariably are

>>48600163
>There are people here who do not realize that the Forsaken will chillax once Lordaeron, all of Lordaeron, is cleansed from the traitorous living scum

What was Khadgar doing during Wrath, Cata and Mists?

>>48600435
>>48560797
Time travel meme parties.

>>48600435
Cleaning Karazhan after some assholes thrashed it and left raid boss corpses everywhere.

>>48600086
Now your kingdom has been burned down to the ground. By fucking bandits and ogre's. For shame.

>>48600325
I still think we should just give Lordaeron back to the Amani.

>>48600086
Poor Stromgarders

Stormwind falls before a mighty horde unlike anything the world had ever seen. Alterac was annihilated when it turned traitor against the rest of the Alliance, and was explicitly the weakest of the city nations to begin with. Lordaeron was beaten to the ground by a plague of undeath and even then only fell when it's prince turned traitor. Dalaran needed a demon lord to destroy it, Gilneas was destroyed by an insane lich queen and a hideous curse at the same time

But Stromgarde? Stromgarde, the heart of humanity, the inheritors of Arathor

Fell to bandits

Poor Stromgarders

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>>48600904
>Lady Sylvanas
>Insane Lich Queen
You're gonna get plagued son

>>48600904

Kinda sucks how Blizzard systematically got rid of most of the Human Kingdoms to simplify things for WoW.

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The year is 2003. You are sent back in time in put in charge of WoW lore development. Everyone will bow to whatever you have to say, as long as it won't conflict with gameplay of the game. The only things certain in lore are those, that were known back then. No thousands upon thousands of retcon. No Med'an.

How will you, Anon, make Warcraft STAY great still?

>>48601177
Keep Lordaeron around.

>>48601177
Actually go through with the orc genocide instead of keeping them around as pets.

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>>48601177
Make Garrosh's decent into "evil" much longer and much better. Fuck old god corruption trash. He was willing to do what others could not. He was willing to secure lumber from ashenvale so his people would not be without homes.

Also his fucking 180 turn regarding honor was retarded. I liked him as a hotblooded warrior that valued honor.

Thrall during cataclysm was a mistake. He should have just retired at the end of Wrath to have a baby and do some earthen ring shit. Not any kind of world saving but just be an advisor.

Genn should never have become a furry. Sylvanas dies during Cataclysm. WoD was a mistake. More troll raids.

>>48601230
>>48601250
WoW, not Warcraft 3

>>48601273
Then bring it back. Lordaeron that is. Or make the Scarlet Crusade not dimwitted, dickless incompetents that get infiltrated by demons every second day.

>>48601177
Pretty much all the lore I want to change occurs in BC, not Vanilla

There's a few lore oddities in Vanilla, like Stormwind being a bustling metropolis instead of a hollow shell inhabited only by those too poor or attached to the past to leave, but overall I think Vanilla really works lore-wise

>>48601281
Lordaeron needs a king. Unless you want to pull a secret Jaina/Arthas babby out of your ass, it's just not going to happen.

>>48601354
Calia Menethil is still a thing. Have her marry - there's your king.

>>48601354
There's more than a few Lordaeron exiles, some of them have to be nobles. Any of those nobles could form a new royal family.

>>48601281
I agree

The scarlet crusade made great villains before it was revealed that they were being controlled by demons. They utilised the light and fought the undead, and yet were entirely wrong and clearly the "bad guys", it was great.

Then, like for so many other things, Cataclysm ruined everything

>>48599768
Knaak didn't create the War of the Ancients.

>>48601177
Make NElves and Forsaken two major unplayable factions. Keep Stromgarde from being ruined. Have you co-operate with them in the Plaguelands and such,

>>48597317
>playing ally
>ever
There's a special place in hell for human wave fans like you.

>>48601396
>Cataclysm ruined everything
That would be WotLK in that case, we learned the Scarlet crusade is lead by a dreadlord in WotlK.
Though I guess you could have said dreadlord be some sort of lesser evil to be used against the scourge.

>>48601354
>Lordaeron needs a king
Why? Why not a glorious Lordaeron republic? After all, the royal family has been kind of disappointing recently.

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>>48601744
>playing edgelord mudhut niggers

>>48601752
Oh, right

Sorry, guess I'm just used to stupid shit originating in Cataclysm

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>>48596432
Underrated post

>>48601752
Balnazzar was hiding as Datrohan since vanilla

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atN2Gk2jza0

>>48602248
I don't like the voice for Maiev, but this is pretty comfy.

>>48601752
>That would be WotLK in that case, we learned the Scarlet crusade is lead by a dreadlord in WotlK.
That predates WotLK, WotLK just had a second dreadlord take over the remnants.

Cata ruined it by having the exposed Dreadlord kill and raise most of the Scarlet Crusade members so they were just more undead in an already undead-heavy zone.

>>48602258
You realize it's all the same guy, right? The narrator.

>>48601774
Well. She might still be alive in the normal timeline.

>>48602663
You mean alternate, right?

The Highway of Hell was made in the main timeline

>>48601342
I will never not disagree with people who claim Stormwind should still be a oversized ruin. 21 years of nothing happening is enough time to rebuild a nation.


>>48601645
I can't even begin to count the reasons why Night elves and forsaken being neutral would be stupid. It's dumb from both a gameplay lore and common sense perspective.

>>48602695
No. I do mean main timeline. I mean, she's probally dead. But it's theoretically possible she was one of the few surviving dranei.

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>>48601744

>>48601645
Just swap the factions. Night Elves are now Horde and Forsaken are now Alliance.

>>48602892
>Alliance accepting undead abominations that are an affront against all that is holy
>Night Elves joining those who killed Cenarius and first started to chop down muh trees

>>48602248
Speaking of the Tomb of Sargeras, if the Legion's goal was to have MU Gul'dan open a massive portal inside for them to invade through, then why was Gul'dan torn apart by demons as soon as he entered it? Seeing how he clearly didn't finish opening the portal (or else the Legion would've invaded during the second war and probably killed everybody), killing him kind of feels like shooting yourself in the foot?

>>48602913
>Night elves accepting an alliance with those who rip the earth asunder, poison the land and abuse the arcane

>Orcs teaming up with the very same humans who defeated them in war and kept them imprisoned for a full generation, who have grown even more distanced from the natural world

>>48602892
I don't see why NE would go Horde, but Forsaken pretending (or even better, really trying) to be Lordaeron could have been fun.
More Forsaken-human relations could have great. Like more broken families.
> "I don't care if is undead, I just want to see him one last time!"
> "Tell them I'm dead. I don't want them to see me like that. And it isn't even a lie."

>>48602952
The demons on the tomb had gone insane from Isolation I think.

>>48602989
Weren't there a couple of questlines back in Vanilla that dealt with that exact issue?

There certainly were NPC families split between Undercity and Stormwind judging by names.

>>48602815
I'm pretty sure that character is from a webcomic, based on the artist's (or one of his guildmates') WoW characater. So she would be alive in MU Azeroth.
It's also porn.

It would be pretty trippy if draenei PCs could run into their AU-version in WoD. Since you never do, one can either presume the AU draenei PC never became a great murderhobo and just remains a random nameless NPC, or they died.

>>48602971
That's mildly problematic. Killing gods and being affront to everything you believe in is kind of a league above that.

>>48602952
>if the Legion's goal was to have MU Gul'dan open a massive portal inside for them to invade through,
it wasn't. He tried to attack it to steal any kind of magical artifacts inside, the demons inside had no idea he was a servant of the Legion

>>48602869
this hasn't been true since vanilla. the Alliance now are ERPers, boring people who can't imagine not playing a human, and minigamers

>>48603027
...So yeah

There's an equal reason for why Night elves would oppose joining both orcs and dwarves

That's what I was trying to say

>>48602952
MU Gul'dan at that point was self-serving dick, he cared only about his own power, not about summoning more demons only to serve them, similar to pre-Legion Illidan

>>48603017
Some, sure. Remaining (not Scourge) Barovs had quests to kill their counterpart over some land deeds, one was a human in Chillwind Camp, the other Forsaken in Bulwark.

They returned in WoD as garrison followers linket with lumberjacking quests.

>>48596178
QUESTION. because i thought about this the other day in a moment of clarity amidst demon guts. we had a worgen dk tank, i thought worgen couldn't be undead because of what darius crowley said in silverpine to all those human magistrates about choosing worgen and fighting or dying and being raised. if the fall of the wall caused the worgen to get out, and that happened during the cataclysm AFTER the lich king died, who the fuck was powerful enough to make worgen dks?

>>48602892
Night Elves joining Horse would have been interesting.
In the end they had no reason to not trust Thrall, he was there with them to defeat Archimonde, and the Orcs who started cutting down Ashenvale and killed Cenarius were somewhat under demon control.
There's also the Tauren, with whom I think Night Elves should get along with better than any other playable race in the game.
The Orcs could have started getting lumber from the patches of jungle that started expanding because of the Druid guy in Wailing Caverns, or they could be given a quota like Elves demand in Dwarf Fortress, and be made to replant.
Thrall allying himself with people in Eastern Kingdoms really makes no sense, especially Undead.

>>48603161
Worgen DKs are from undead Arugal's pack from Grizzly Hills.

As for why they were able to be resurrected while the Gilnean kind are supposedly immune to reanimation, no idea.

>>48603161
Nobody, it's bullshit. Frankly, I think te only reason we haven't got panda DK's is that they start neutral and choose sides only in the last started quest.

>>48603185
And pandas were all far from the scourge before MoP.

>>48603161
The Worgen can't be raised by the Val'kyr that work for Sylvanus, they CAN be raised by better necromancers, and Worgen DKs are from other populations that predate the Cataclysm.

>>48603180
I think they were raised from Arugal's original Silverpine worgen, but I may be mistaken there.

>>48603161
Yeah, it made no sense to let worgen be DKs. With goblines you've at least had them around, including ones working as mercenaries for the Horde who could end up dying in the Plaguelands and risen as a DK.

Worgen being immune to the plague might work the same way as the nerubians being immune. They can't be killed and risen by it, but if dead for some other reason (such as being stabbed to death by a skeleton), a necromancer could still raise the remains.

I think it's pretty neat that despite the plague being clearly magical in origin, it interacts with the biology of different races differently. Most die and are risen as zombies under the Lich King's control, but nerubians and worgen are immune, and murlocks apparently die and rise as undead but don't automatically fall under the Lich King's control.

>>48603239
Shouldn't Undead eventually rot away to skeletons though?
Is there in the lore written it shouldn't happen?
I think there's something for Death Knights, but what about Arthas? He wasn't technically killed (like layer DKs) or a soul being put into a dead body like Teron.

>>48603276
Necromantic animation prevents further rotting

Because magic

>>48603276
All of the organisms that attack dead flesh probably get killed by the undead's plagued bodies. You'd still have to worry about wear, which is why they tend to have exposed joints, but that takes a lot longer to break a zambo down, and just because they don't heal naturally, that doesn't prevent maintenance, whether with needle and thread or dark magic.

>>48603057
There are reasons. But i don't think the reasons are equal. And they had to join one of the two side eventually.

>>48603177
It would have been intrestring. And could have made for some good storylines. Especially if the Orcs wanted to redeem themselves for the whole killing Cenarius thing.

I do disagree with the idea that Thrall allying with the Forsaken made no sense. Why the hell would he reject potential allies?

>>48603381
Why would he ally with Undead on a continent he left and wanted to have nothing to do with anymore?
Why risk further conflict with the Alliance, isn't this along with escaping from the demons something he wanted?
As for Orc - Night Elf interactions, Tauren would have been great mediators with their dual Shamanistic-Druidic culture.

>>48603276
I think Arthas (and the other 2nd gen DKs like baron Rivendare) has his soul bound to his runeblade. So his body is effectively dead, but his soul is controlling it from the sword (1st gen DKs were souls of orc warlocks stuffed inside knight corpses, and 3rd gen, ie. player, DKs are their own soul stuffed back inside their dead body).
I find it pretty funny that a Forsaken DK has been killed and reanimated by the Scourge, then broken free, then killed and reanimated by the Scourge again, only to break free again.

>>48601250

>this orc butthurt

never fails to make me lol

>>48603276
In the forsaken starting area there where quests about undead made by the plague are so rife with it anything that would cause the body to decay won't touch it.
Casters that turn themselves undead, ie. litches do decay thought, why most of them are skeleton.

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>>48602869

>>48603381
>Especially if the Orcs wanted to redeem themselves for the whole killing Cenarius thing.
> Garrosh could have been the one to make amend for his father sin.

>>48603438
Because he needs more resources and soldiers to keep the horde alive in a hostile world filled with threats that would love nothing more than to kill everything? I mean, just because Thrall wasn't expansionist doesn't mean he has no intrest in keeping the horde strong and capable.

I don't think allying with the forsaken really increased the chance of conflict breaking out any more than it already did. Since it's not like Stormwind or Ironforge is in a position, or even has all that much desire, to "liberate" lordearon.

>>48603555
Yep. Instead he launched a full invasion of ashenvale/felwood, pretty much ruining any chance of the night elves-horde relations ever improving.

Man, blizzard really dropped the ball with him.

>>48603451
That is why forsaken DKs are the best DKs

>>48603584
Why wouldn't he try to find allies closer to his new home?
For example the not hostile Centaur tribes in the Desolace, the Shamanistic Furbolg.
How does an alliance with the reanimated corpses of your old enemies raised by the demons you ran from who are now led by a fucking reanimated High Elf who most likely hates trolls with all her essence make any fucking sense?

>>48603762
Because the Forsaken contacted the Horde with the offer of an alliance, not the other way around

>>48603740
the best DKs are blood elf DKs

because they're sluts

>>48601177
make sure they don't endlessly wank to the big lore characters. moments here and there are fine, like thrall meeting the mag'har. but other than that they should stay in their cities and be pvp raid bosses. WoD seemed like it just would not let up on orc jesus and khadgar, though it was nice to have him back.

>>48603631
> Garrosh join the Horde in BC after Thrall told him about his heroic father freeing the orcs from demons.
> Garrosh go full "orcs fuck yeah"
> Muh warriors, muh honours
> Get way too violent because "orcs are conquerors, right? Just like daddy."
> Go rogue with orcs supremacists
> Ultimately try to fuck with time
> Players prevent him from changing the timeline but Garrosh learn the full story of his father.
> Thrall and players go for a final confrontation.
> Garrosh actually realised that his father wasn't that great despite how awesome of a warrior he was, realising that being a warrior or worse a conqueror mean little in itself.
> He's mad at Thrall for not telling the true and maintaining some sort of myth to comfort orcs pride instead of having them facing their flaws.
> "No wonder why we fell to demons!"
> Surrender and try to make amend for everything.
> Thrall realise that getting rid of demonic corruption is not enough, orcs have to change and he feels like shit.

>>48603778
How would the Forsaken know of the Orc's voyage to Kalimdor? Leftovers from Demonic control?
Why would they contact the Horde?

>>48603276
I could've sworn there was a quest somewhere or an undead NPC that said the longer lived undead eventually lose their minds. Anyone remember that?

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>>48598610
>make reference difficult to get
>no one gets it
>mfw it was all a pointless waste of time

>>48603584
What resources? Ruins, corpses and plague that are on the other side of the world (meaning months of travel)?

And Varian declared war on the Horde in WotLK after what he's seen during the Battle for Undercity, meaning that Forsaken were the direct cause of Alliance/Horde war in Cata and MoP, before Garrosh even got involved (Funny that Varian was about to dismantle the Horde and Jaina stopped him)

>>48603818
I don't know how they knew of the new Horde, but I know they contacted them because they needed allies to help hold their lands

Remember Tarren Mill?

>>48603890
>(Funny that Varian was about to dismantle the Horde and Jaina stopped him)

Things that never happened.

>>48603823
Yep... it was one of the first quests in Deathknell, when you had to kill mindless zombies. It was mentioned again in Brill with old forsaken woman. No idea if the quests survived Cataclysm... likely not.

>>48603934
>King Varian Wrynn says: I was away for too long. My absence cost us the lives of some of our greatest heroes. Trash like you and this evil witch were allowed to roam free -- unchecked.
>King Varian Wrynn says: The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come.
>King Varian Wrynn says: I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing.
>King Varian Wrynn says: What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief.
>King Varian Wrynn says: ATTACK! FOR STORMWIND! FOR BOLVAR! FOR THE ALLIANCE!
The fight is joined.
>Lady Jaina Proudmoore yells: VARIAN, NO! STOP!
Lady Jaina Proudmoore incapacitates all units with a freeze spell
>Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: It did not have to be like this...
Lady Jaina Proudmoore teleports all Alliance forces back to Stormwind

>>48603906
Why would Thrall accept though?

>>48603998
>a human unironically crying to Thrall about gladiator arenas
l
o
l

>>48601177
>Pretty much leave vanilia unchanged.
>Make illidan and his crew a reluctant ally against a burning legion invasion of outland.
>Make Arthas not stupid in Wrath. And give Garrosh at least some redeemable qualities earlier.
>Make deathwing a good villain in cata. Have him manipulate the horde and the alliance into escalating the war. Actually show that resources are running out. Don't make thrall a mary sue. Have a old god be the true final boss.
>Instead of Garrosh suddenly turning evil, make both sides be in the wrong. Have the expansion end with both Varian and Garrosh seeing the error of their ways. Completing both of their character arcs.
>If you must have a time travel excuse to fight the old horde. Just drop the pretense and give us a time travel excuse to fight the old horde.
>Don't randomly kill characters so that the players can have cool loot.

>>48603998
i still remember reading the part when Jaina is making a fuckhueg water elemental designed to drown orcs and orc babies in orgrimmar, ah Garrosh, you did good in theramore, you did good.

>>48603998
This is the Jaina I like

The warrior of peace, willing to perform outright treason to prevent war from occurring.

>>48603890
Lordearon was one of the most powerful kingdoms in teh world. I imagine the place has plenty of mines, oil, and wood.

>>48604140
Lordaeron canonically has tons of oil, but most of it is in the plaguelands or places that are contested between the Horde and Alliance like Southshore

>>48604020
Because it would strengthen the horde?

>>48603890
That declaration did seem to get walked back somewhat in the post-Dragonblight zones, there was still something of a war but it died down considerably after Grizzly Hills.

>>48604020
Undead slaves breaking free of the scourge that broke free of the Legion reminds him of the goal of breaking the Orcs free of the Legion?

>>48604195
So would allying with the Aqir.

>>48604076
You mean the elemental that came AFTER Theramore, that Jaina summoned with the help of the part of the bomb that blew the city?

Garrosh did good when he drove Jaina to it, she fucked up when she didn't actually went through with the destruction of Orgrimmar.

>>48604173
That's still something. And i imagine there has to be some resource in the tirisfal glades that made humans build a large city there.

>>48604223
I think it was mostly because Alliance/Horde weren't really in contact after that... Zul'drak was Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade, Sholazzar was neutral Nesingwary and natives, Storm Peaks had neutral goblins and more natives, with Horde and Alliance in small settlements far from each other, and Icecrown had some faction conflict in gunship quests, but it was mostly Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade again. Sunreavers and Silver Covenant hated each other, even though they were oficially part of neutral Kirin Tor.

>>48604262
>implying she'd be any better than Garrosh if she'd gone through with it
>inb4 a future expansion where she teams up with the Infinite Dragonflight to "fix everything" and we have to preserve the timeline again
>inb4 the last person she ever thinks of is Arthas

>>48604350
>if you kill your enemies they win
pull the trigger, jaina

>>48604229
I doubt C'thun would be all that interested in allying with the horde.

>>48604350
last person she ever thinks of is her father, being butchered by Rexxar.

>>48604419
>I know how I'll prove my moral superiority to this genocidal lunatic!
>I'll become a genocidal lunatic!

>>48604140
Wood? Mostly dead, rotting and infected by the Plague. Mines? One of the quests in Forsaken starting area mentions that the mines were almost depleted even when living ruled Lordaeron, and that they have to scavenge any equipment they can. Oil? Stratholme was Scourge territory, Southshore was Alliance. Oil wouldn't do the Forsaken much good, seeing as they had no access to harbor... meaning thet they had no way to transport the resources to Kalimdor even if they had them.

And there's the whole war with the Scourge thing, Horde had no reason to join that and could've left it to the Forsaken who would get wiped out and the Alliance, who would get weakened by the war.

>>48604496
At that point, Kosak & Co. already decided she'll throw her "moral superiority" away anyway. But if she wiped the majority of the Horde, they wouldn't have PvP anymore, would they?

>>48604494
Last person she thinks of is Rexxars sweaty half-ogre wang tearing into her folds

>>48604473
>Cho'Gall

>>48604262
yes, i did know that it came after theramore, it seems sort of irrelevant to my point. i enjoyed watching theramore explode. i enjoyed reading about how all of her friends fell apart into purple dust, which some ethereal trader probably wants for a fetish party or something. war crimes are interesting, because they're so fucked up we had to give it it's own classification.

>>48601631
No, but you see rhonin, krasus and broxigar in that flashback quest with illidan. newest canon, actual canon

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>>48604262
>Trolls on the perpetual irrelevant wheel
>Tauren a non-factor as always
>Forsaken already busy genociding people in the Eastern Kingdoms
>Goblins are golbins

I still fail to see how drowning Orgrimmar would lead to some WW3 cataclysm like the books suggest.

>>48604575
Oh. That's weird. I thought that was ruled to be an alternate timeline, even before the Knaak purge began.

>>48604548
pfff, like it would kill any player characters. we'd all just swim to the surface, and then queue for a dungeon/raid with a 20 minute long thrall/jaina conversation before we murder her, which will drop a sweet but rare piece of loot which in the future people will farm for transmog and complain about having to wait for the conversation to end. but that didn't happen so this statement is pointless.

>>48604573
You see it as a war crime committed by Garrosh

I see it as a crime against the players committed by Kosak.

Regardless of what happened to Theramore, or why Garrosh did it, it's real result was utterly destroying Jaina Proudmoore as a character. Jaina was a fantastic character. One of the very few characters from WC3 who was both likeable and alive by MoP, also the only female Blizzard character who was both capable and sane. Then they removed the sane part, because DRAMA

>>48604581
The cataclysm would happen in real world, as Horde fans would be in outrage and Blizzard would lose money from subscribers.

>>48603490
Wait, is this supposed to make fun of that one woman who was harassed by horde fans because she played alliance?

>>48604500
I would still imagine there's something worth getting in Tirisfal glades and Silverpine forest. The plague is bad, but besides for wood it doesn't seem to destroy natural resources.

>And there's the whole war with the Scourge thing, Horde had no reason to join that and could've left it to the Forsaken who would get wiped out and the Alliance, who would get weakened by the war.

This might be the stupidest thing I've ever read. Do you even realize how the scourge works? This would have literally been the dumbest possible thing Thrall could have done.

>>48604581
Think of the poor writers

They'd have to try and do Horde vs Alliance stuff that isn't based in Forsaken war crimes or orcs vs humans

Those poor fools would be so lost and confused, take pity on them

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>>48603161
>>48603180
>>48603185
Personally, I really think it's dumb that the devs during WotLK allowed all races to be Death Knights because it wouldn't be fair. I would've gone with all races that could become Shamans or Paladins have the option of Death Knight as well, except maybe draenei. It leaves a slight race/class skew between factions, but I have a hard time accepting draenei Death Knights.

And now with Legion and Demon Hunters, the devs are restricting the class to just night and blood elves. Which I don't really have a problem with, except that Death Knights are still playable by everyone and their dog, despite it being very difficult to justify in some cases. Hell, human Demon Hunters were mentioned to exist in some of the earlier lore.

I'm also a bit concerned, since Demon Hunter race exclusivity will absolutely cause a spike in blood elf population, which is something the Horde really doesn't need.

But I am really happy Demon Hunters are playable now. I've been wanting them for years.

>>48604581
Because Political correctness.

Tide of war and Warcrime are just 2 book of political correctness, that's why they are both fucking stupid.

>>48604648
Jaina is still sane even later down the story.

Working with Horde is stupid to being with
There's a 2/2 death rate for stormwind king who trusted a Horde member.

>>48604676
Maybe they would actually have to stop focusing so much on the alliance horde conflict and instead keep it as a cold war. Imagine the horrors they would face trying to do that.

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>>48604648
Jaina had been dealing with idiots stroking their dicks at the idea of war for YEARS. I think her snapping is perfectly reasonable, and I've loved her since Warcraft III when she was still fighting for peace.

Besides, I haven't seen any signs of her being insane. Angry and zealous (justifiably so, considering the shit she's dealt with), yes, but not insane.

>>48604496
Why would you want to prove your moral superiority against a hostile army that's just dropped an atom bomb on one of your cities. An army that you've committed patricide to defend, no less.

WoW writing is pretty bad and it's only gotten worse over, but there's only so much dumb shit a person can take before they realize that orcs are kind of retarded.

>>48604719
3rd generation death knights are just powerful warriors given runeblades and an extra shot of resurrection juice. Any race that was playable in BC could have conceivably died in the Plaguelands and been raised as a DK

>>48604774
Her snapping is perfectly reasonable given the events

My argument is that the events should not have happened

But I'm just some poor dumbass who's still attached to Thrall's Horde and the idea that orcs can be more than violent idiots and the writers have been steadfastly determined to make me wrong for years now, so what do I know?

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>>48604719
I, too, hate that the Blood Elves are going to be able to be Demon Hunters.

What other Horde race, you ask? Orcs. Orc Demon Hunters.

>>48604839
>still attached to Thrall's Horde
the only reasonable one in thrall's horde was thrall

And considering the circumstances, he's probably the closest we've seen to an actually insane orc.

>>48604719
The only death knights i have a problem with are Cata races, mostly because of the continuity snarl it creates. Gnomes, mostly because it just looks silly. And undead, mostly because it just seems kind of redundant.

>>48600325
>traitorous living scum
t. hey you killed and resurrected me as an abomination I guess I'm on your side now Forsaken

>>48604775
>Why would you want to prove your moral superiority against a hostile army that's just dropped an atom bomb on one of your cities.


I liked Garrosh as a character (before lolcorruption) for him going against this bullshit. He was the only one thinking different in the sea of moral high ground. The Varian cock block at the end of SoO was tipping point for me.

>>48604839
>My argument is that the events should not have happened
Oh, no, I wholeheartedly agree with you on that front. I liked Jaina as the peacekeeper, and if the writers kept things on track from the Warcraft III ending, I'd be totally fine with her staying like that.

But given the rollercoaster that the WoW storyline is, Jaina going zealous is a reasonable place to take her. I just fucking hope she doesn't become another victim of Has Gone Crazy And Must Be Killed™. Both because she's one of my favorites, and because I'm plain sick of us killing major established characters.

>>48604909
no

t. glorious ex-scourge old forsaken

>>48604891
A few old Orcs were level headed too , like Varok Saurfang and Etrigg.

The rest of them are retarded.

>>48604891
>the only reasonable one in thrall's horde was thrall

Saurfang
Cairne
Vol'Jin
Drek'thar

>>48604913
I agree, even if he was handled terribly.

drown the orcs, fourth war now

>>48604975
Drek'Thar is fucking retarded too.

> "You can't dig in our ancestral ground!"
> You fuckers only got here after Dark portal opens, its like less than 30 years!

>>48604975
I'm still assmad in legion Vol'Jin just randomly fucks off so sylvanas runs the whole fucking mess, his ass was seriously the best horde leader we've had and he suddenly fucks off into the night.
seriously screw legion for the horde side.

>>48605035
He's probably going to show back up at the end having somehow rallied the zandalari

>>48605035
>his ass was seriously the best horde leader we've had and he suddenly fucks off into the night.
He aint done shit

>>48604975
How about resonable orcs then, bub.

>>48605070
exactly, and every horde leader prior has been absolutely shit, so by default since he hasn't completely screwed the pooch running the whole mess hes the best, and now were stuck with queen genocidal bitch.

>>48605035
Yeah, I'm livid that Vol'jin is already being replaced. He ruled the Horde for one expansion, which he had no part in.

Especially since he's being replaced by Sylvanas, who is so hated by the rest of the Horde that they probably have better relations with the Alliance at this point. Even Lor'themar is sick of her shit.

>>48605050
I'm hoping so, although some details from the state of Legion say otherwise. But there's still future patches that could bring in a twist for Vol'jin's survival.

I feel like him living is likely, though, since Varian is dying. I don't think the writers would kill off both factions' primary leaders at the same time like that.

>>48605083
Half of those listed are orcs.

>>48605098
Thrall wasn't shit

Well, his policies weren't shit, his habit of trusting total psychopaths was pretty shit

>>48605131
i do not trust a warchief who quite calmly planned to murder her sister and nephews and raise them into undeath, just so she'd be less alone in undercity.

>>48605131
Two is about right.

((((Goblins))))

>>48605169
You are not alone

There are only two types of people who like Sylvanas. Absolute edgelords and gigantic waifufaggots.

Unfortunately, the lead writer for WoW is both of these things

>>48605188
They're pretty much the only notable orcs in Thrall's Horde.

Hell, those characters listed in general are among the only notable ones in the Horde in general during Thrall's time, aside from Sylvanas and Lor'themar.

Lor'themar not really being a bad guy, but at the time he was just using the Horde for the blood elves' own goals.

>>48605131
Well Varian was all buddy buddy with her on broken shore.
Then he died a horrible death after she ditched his force to die.

Never trust the Horde.

>>48605199
Sylvanas might be a bitch, but I still want to make her a mother desu senpai.

>>48605232
I meant that the non-Forsaken Horde have better relations with the Alliance than Sylvanas at this point.

>>48604923
>>48604839
I hope she doesn't end up like some crazy raid boss either, both because:
A: I like the character, and she goes back to WC3.
B: It wouldn't make any sense, if she just got offed as some crazy boss, it would invalidate her quite justified reasoning for wanting to remove horde. The lesson would essentially be: Getting angry about having friends and home wiped from existance in every dimension isn't right, you should just roll over and live with getting fucked by people who owe their existance to you digging the idea of peace and forgiveness.

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>>48605196
>he doesn't like (((goblins)))

>>48605225
>Lor'themar not really being a bad guy, but at the time he was just using the Horde for the blood elves' own goals.
What are alliances

>>48605278
I do not see a solution

Theramore was the real point of no return for me. Warcraft lore is totally fucked, nothing can fix it anymore. Before then a decent writer might have been able to salvage it it, but after?

The only option left is to declare everything from Cataclysm onwards as non-canon and restart

>>48605199
Behold the lord of every edge,
whose only thought is of his love,
a rotten corpse to whom he'll pledge
the heads of all who'd play the dove--
for what rank fool could ever dare
to think of peace once Kosak laughed
and said "let pvp rage there;
there must be war-- it's called War Craft!"

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>>48605303
I said, even in the part you quoted, that Lor'themar isn't a bad guy. My point is that, at the time of Thrall's reign as Warchief, Lor'themar was not dedicated to the Horde, it was an alliance of convenience and nothing more.

>>48605303
But he's in the honorable HORDE of blood and thunder, not an 'alliance'.

>>48605147
anon his trusting of psychopaths are one of the main reasons hes shit.
another one is hes a giant flaming faggot that fucked off for dumbass reasons.
The real main reason is literally everything he has done in cataclysm on is simply mind bogglingly retarded and terrible.

>>48605405
I will never understand why people hate Metzen when his biggest self-insert character only became awful when he stopped writing

>>48605007
My god. Has it really been only 30 fucking years since warcraft 1? That's really kind of stupid when you think about it.

>>48604847
The Illidari DID have Fel orcs.

I wonder if Illidan dunked any Orcs in Magtheridon blood and then weaned them off fel gunk with that magic pit he had under Karabor.

>>48605405
>trying to literally hold the world together
>dumbass reason
say what you want but i'd prefer he fuck off and hold everything so we can keep living than stay warchief of an apocalyptically sinking ship

>>48605319
I think you could somehow work with punished Jaina just being a really serious anti horde hardliner. Someone to make sure Anduin doesn't become a total mangina.

>>48605188
They're also pretty much the only major orc characters in the game. Or are you really going to argue random quest npc's whose's entire personality boils down to "Hail Hero! Here is a quest!" are proof that the horde is awful.

>>48604719
I'd just pick:
Humans, Dwarves, Blood Elves and Orcs, maybe Forsaken, but arguably, Forsaken DK would just be a human DK.

>>48605508
No. I do not support any scenario where Jaina remains as WotLK Varian

She is the opposite of that, the voice of peace, the voice of reason


If it was some alternate universe we encounter in the vaverns of time, sure, but for the main timeline?

Well, Warcraft 3 characters have it hard enough. Without losing the only decent one left

>>48605664
Dismantling the Horde is the only decent option left.

>>48603998
>>King Varian Wrynn says: I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing

Lol. Varian only fought "in the arena" like three times max and killed maybe one or two orcs. What a crybaby.

>>48605775
No, the only option left is retcon EVERYTHING

>>48605797
yeah, exactly. and every one of those three or four times he thought these things.

>>48604581
>>48604581

>jaina drowns orgrimmar
>garrosh either dies or he survives
>in any case, the forsaken now have the perfect reason to plaguebomb everyone since the only thing keeping them somewhat in check were the kor'kron overseers in the undercity and shit
>goblins fire the fuckhuge gun in bilgewater harbor (aimed directly at stormwind, btw) with its magic bullet capable of blowing up half the planet

jaina drowning orgrimmar would have been the equivalent of the usa and russia firing all their nukes at each other at the same time during the cold war

desu, i think azeroth would a hell of a lot more interesting after something like that

half the EK would be covered in plague and the other half would have been blown to pieces by the goblins' big ass gun

>>48605824
>>48605824

>three or four

lol, no

he seriously only fought like twice

go read the comic which introduced him

he's an overly dramatic crybaby acting like his time as a gladiator was sooo bad when he lived in relative comfort and actually ENJOYED being a gladiator AND even considered his "slaver" rehgar to be his friend

>>48605797
Wait, wasn't he fighting in a Ogre arena?
What does that have to do with Thrall, who was by the way raised by humans to be a gladiator and actually was for years?

> Varian and Thrall could have bound on this.
> Varian and Thrall could have abolish slavery and inhumane (unorky?) treatment of prisoners.

>death knights working with the lich king in legion
>kel'thuzad's phylactery is still missing

I hope we get to resurrect him in a future patch.

>>48601177
God damn, for some reason I read that in the WC2 Human narrator's voice.

>>48606139
he belongs to the Forsaken you little shit

>>48606073
He fought a few bouts in Orgrimmar too.

Ostensibly the Horde Gladiatorial circuit has a "No Slavery" rule that almost nobody actually follows, but Thrall oversaw matches and never really bothered looking deeper.

(Also I loved the depiction of Dire Maul in the WoW comic, having Nightelves, Ogres, Goblins, hordies, and other miscelenious alliance and neutral races all getting together to watch people fight was really fun.

>>48604022
It is kind of hypocritical. Thrall was a gladiator slave, and yet his Horde still had both slaves and gladiators.

>>48606204
desu, even in the alliance unless you explicitly drew attention to it slavery is ignored. nobody has the time or inclination to help slaves because usually there's a bigger, more world threatening issue happening at the same time

>>48606204
thralls also the single dumbest shit the horde has had and i say this knowing sylvanas exists entirely to fuck everything.
seriously, thralls pretty much singlehandedly responsible for all the hell the horde has gone through from cata on and the main reason why the leadership is essentially non existent now.

>>48606073

Yep. He does fight a Blademaster in Orgrimmar but it's not a gladiatorial match, it's just a fight that breaks out between his team and someone else's. Then he fights in the Dire Maul arena (hilariously far from Orgrimmar) and only fights like three matches. Of those three matches, only one had an orc. The "big" match was when he fought an ogre.

Honestly, Varian's story is complete shit. Blizzard said he was created to be the "anti-Thrall" and that idea didn't even last past WotLK. His whole story is just a contrived, shitter version of Thrall's.

They didn't even have the balls to let him remain as a warmongering dumbass because the Alliance fanbase was upset that their leader was a jerk and they didn't like having a meanie for a king. Hilariously, the Horde fanbase was doing the exact same thing with Garrosh in Cata. However, we know NOW that Garrosh WAS supposed to go through a similar "growth" to Varian and become wiser and less extreme. Blizzard is so fucking incompetent that they couldn't even communicate this within their own story department which resulted in Garrosh getting the villain bat while Varian just became an annoying Mary Sue who got to die a hero's death.

>>48606174
>He fought a few bouts in Orgrimmar too.

Nope. He didn't fight in a single sanctioned gladiatorial match in Orgrimmar. Just a backstage brawl when he and his team were supposed to be training.

>>48606174
>Thrall oversaw matches and never really bothered looking deeper.
Thrall has always been a little overly trusting, in some ways.

Then he realized trusting Garrosh to not fuck shit up really did fuck shit up. So now he's moping.

>>48606139
>>48606157
> Players resurrect kel'thuzad.
> Sylvanas arrives: "You fools! He was the most loyal minion of the Lich king, do you really think he's just going to side with us now?"
> KT: "Actually, I would be happy to join, you remind me of a certain somehow I held dear..."
> S: " Don't you fucking dare! I will kill you has many time as it will take for you to get bored of it if you say a single more word!"
> KT: "Could it be? Is it possible for my long rotten and forgotten heart to beat for someone again?"
> Human and forsaken now have access to the necromancer class.

>>48606384
>Then he realized trusting Garrosh to not fuck shit up really did fuck shit up.
anon your full of shit, shit got fucked up not cause of garrosh, but because of the fact literally everyone around garrosh acted like a faggot and blamed him for literally everything and anything under the sun, then proceeded to try to kill his ass multiple times, then when garrosh finally said fuck all you guys they collectively went to thrall to bitch to fix everything, and so thrall being the honorless sack of shit he is, does that combat to the death shit, breaks the rules multiple times and straight up murders garrosh for it washing his hands clean of the fact he literally ruined the horde by throwing its leader to the literal wolves and instead of actually trying to do shit just said fuck it and appeased the wolves. Then he stuck a useless shit in charge, said fuck it, went back to jerking himself off and now said useless shit is gonna fuck off and we get queen genocidal bitch, which even on her best day is 100 million times worse then garrosh even on his worst day, and thrall will be fucking giddy about it like the inept shithead he is.
i seriously hate thrall, he might actually be the single biggest piece of shit on the horde side which is impressive as almighty fuck when you consider the god damn forsaken exist as part of the horde.

>>48606387
I would play the fuck out of a necromancer under KTs toutalge.

>>48606157
Kel'thu-fucking-zad does not belong to some overblown Mary sue cunt who should have been killed by her own fucking faction long ago.

>>48606387
>necromancer class
Unholy DK says 'hi.'

Accept that there will never be a dedicated necromancer class, because it would have too much overlap with other classes. Unholy has the undead minions and demonology has the constant minion swarms, so there's no niche for it.

>>48606469
All I'm hearing is
>waaaaah, I want brown orc back!

>>48606545
t.Metzen
cry harder about your faggy self insert

>>48606485
as would i. but it would probably just be all the warlock abilities renamed and reskinned.

>>48601269

>Garrosh goes from murdering the fuck out of the dude who killed druidic students to the guy who wants to murderfuck everything he sees.

what the fuck man.

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Good night, sweet prince.

You were too good for this world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC-ol6xY5zQ

>>48606500
I really want to run a campaign where Sylvanas takes Arthas' place at the end of Wrath, instead of Bolvar.

Then frees the sane Scourge, who join the Forsaken with an actual justification for worshiping her ass.

>>48606656

SPREAD THE WORD.

THRALL CHEATED IN THE MAK'GORA.

>>48606729
That....actually would have been really cool. And a good way to end her character's role in the story

>>48606469
>t. Garrosh Hellscream

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>>48606903
>Sylvanas the Lich Queen retires, leaves the Forsaken and newly freed Scourge under the command of Nathanos Blightcaller

>Evey undead sulks now that their queen is gone

>Then they realize that they alone are as strong as the entire Alliance

>>48606729
No. She needs a saronite spike up the ass and nothing else.
Fuck Kosak. And fuck his shit cuntbitch of a waifu.

>>48607222

>The Forsaken proclaim themselves the true successors of Thoradin and by extension, the rest of the human kingdoms.

>>48607243
But Kosak is the one who MADE her shit.

>>48607262
>Thoradin
>Not Menethil

>They establish a relatively peaceful regime reaching all over Lordaeron, and begin sending diplomatic and colonial feelers all over the world.
>The Horde is now less Horde+Forsaken, and more Forsaken+Horde

>>48607243
You sound mad.

>>48607222
At least that way we would have a explanation for how the horde suddenly went from underdog, to being capable of successfully invading the alliance on multiple fronts.

>>48607361
........What the hell is a colonial feeler?

>>48605917
The goblin gun is aimed at Undercity, not Stormwind, and we have no idea about its capabilities or any clue that it could shoot across the ocean. Hell, goblins made it, it would propably explode if they tried to fire it, taking care of another Horde race and propably finishing what Jaina started in Orgrimmar

>>48607564
But Blizzard would still put orcs, not undead, everywhere

>>48607600
to be fair undercity is complete shit and goblins know whats up, fuck the forsaken.

>>48607600
Knowing Goblin tech. I imagine it would probally wipe out the Darkspear Trolls, the Night Elves, and maybe even the Draenei and/or Tauren too.

>>48607361

Thoradin's descendants formed the Kingdom of Azeroth (Stormwind.)

The nobility went north to found Lordaeron. Thoradin is the progenitor my nigga.

>>48607600
>The goblin gun is aimed at Undercity, not Stormwind,

Nope. It's aimed at Stormwind. Look through the scope and you'll see an image of Stormwind.

>and we have no idea about its capabilities or any clue that it could shoot across the ocean

We know it's a big gun with an extremely powerful piece of ammunition inside of it capable of leveling an entire city OR potentially blowing up half the planet.

>Hell, goblins made it, it would propably explode if they tried to fire it, taking care of another Horde race and propably finishing what Jaina started in Orgrimmar

Goblins make zeppelins, too. Those work just fine.

But I actually see what's going on here. You're butthurt that there's a Horde race with a WMD not only aimed at Stormwind but capable of flattening it entirely and that makes you upset.

>>48607642
Well, duh. Just because the forsaken now have more population than the rest of the horde combined, doesn't mean that there actually going to send more soldiers to help the warchief with his new zany schemes. After all, you only get one unlife.

Now i'm curious what kind of role the forsaken actually have in horde armies. I imagine support, altough i could see them as light infantry.

>>48607738
Zeppelins only work fine because the game can't just have them suddenly crash when a player is trying to get somewhere. If you talk to any of the goblins on board, it becomes quite clear that the thing are about as reliable as a 10 year old playing a druid healer.

>>48607943
>it becomes quite clear that the thing are about as reliable as a 10 year old playing a druid healer.
On dialup.

>>48607898
>I imagine support, altough i could see them as light infantry.
Most forsaken we actually see are alchemists, so yeah, support.

>>48607943
>>48608050
With ADHD.

>>48608177
So......
Orcs: Front line/medium infantry, Calvary, Shaman's.
Trolls: light infantry, skirmishers, voodoo doctors/priests.
Tauren: Heavy infantry.
Forsaken: Alchemists.
Blood elfs: Ranged support, mages.
Goblins: Engineers.

>>48608339

I think orcs count as heavy infantry aswell, to be honest.

>>48608365
Under normal circumstances yes. But i imagine in comparison to Taurens there only "Medium" infantry.

>>48607738
>Nope. It's aimed at Stormwind. Look through the scope and you'll see an image of Stormwind.
That's great and all, but the actual gun is physically aimed at Undercity (just extend the line from its barrel) and the building it's mounted in lacks any means of horisontal aim

>We know it's a big gun with an extremely powerful piece of ammunition inside of it capable of leveling an entire city OR potentially blowing up half the planet.

"We" know it how? Its firepower isn't mentioned anywhere in the game, and WoW does have a tradition of oversized shit that's way less effective that it should be given its size

>Goblins make zeppelins, too. Those work just fine.

There are tons of crashed zeppelins everywhere: Stranglethorn, Northrend, Dustwallov March, Hellfire Penninsula...

>But I actually see what's going on here. You're butthurt that there's a Horde race with a WMD not only aimed at Stormwind but capable of flattening it entirely and that makes you upset.

Seeing as Alliance has NPCs that are capable of destroying Orgrimmar without the need of a penis compensator, whose capabilities are actually acknowledged in lore and not pulled out of your ass... hm... nope, I don't have any reason to. Horde HAD manabomb used to nuke Theramore, but that was one of a kind thing and they don't have the means to repeat that. And even that was too small to destroy whole Stormwind, maybe one of the quarters.

>>48608464

Weren't blood elves using manabombs all over Outland?

That shit is easily reproducible.

>>48608339
a lot of trolls and orcs started picking up guns after vanilla, not only blood elves are really rangers anymore

>>48608339
Forsaken were also main (only) Horde navy, until Blizzard decided that the Orcs should finally use the fact they are living right next to the ocean.

>>48608489
Kael'thas used few, that's where the technology came from, but without the Focusing Iris, they weren't that destructive (they killed or irradiated living beings, but did nothing to buildings or plants. Kirin'var shows more devastation, but that's most likely the effect of Netherstorm than the bomb)

>>48608508
True. But i still do imagine Blood elfs make up the majority or long range troops.

>>48608589
*Of long range troops.

>>48608464
you seem to have forgotten to factor in curvature. i don't know the actual degree at which azeroth curves because obviously in game the whole map is completely flat but we do know it's a planet and there are models of azeroth that aren't flat. alternately it's a magical teleporting bullet. take your pick

>>48608508
>>48608339
Troll axethrowers and headhunters are still pretty dangerous, and some of them are good with magic bows to boot.

>>48608587
the focusing iris still exists, ergo the tech still exists. if the horde were to try really hard again they could probably find and use it to make another. in fact they'd be guaranteed to accomplish it if they just asked some wandering adventurers to find it and gave them a vague clue.

>>48608464
>That's great and all, but the actual gun is physically aimed at Undercity (just extend the line from its barrel) and the building it's mounted in lacks any means of horisontal aim

That's great and all, but the gun's scope SHOWS it's aimed at Stormwind. I think the image in the scope is a more reliable indicator of what the gun is aimed at than its position.

>"We" know it how? Its firepower isn't mentioned anywhere in the game, and WoW does have a tradition of oversized shit that's way less effective that it should be given its size

Hmm, maybe you should know your lore before you try and debate it online, big boy.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:A_Hello_to_Arms

>There are tons of crashed zeppelins everywhere: Stranglethorn, Northrend, Dustwallov March, Hellfire Penninsula...

And there are wrecked ships everywhere. Your point?

>Seeing as Alliance has NPCs that are capable of destroying Orgrimmar without the need of a penis compensator, whose capabilities are actually acknowledged in lore and not pulled out of your ass... hm... nope, I don't have any reason to. Horde HAD manabomb used to nuke Theramore, but that was one of a kind thing and they don't have the means to repeat that. And even that was too small to destroy whole Stormwind, maybe one of the quarters.

It's hilarious that you accuse me of pulling shit out of my ass when you don't even know what the hell you're talking about. Jaina couldn't destroy Orgrimmar on her own. She needed the Focusing Iris to amplify her powers a shitload in order to do that. The Alliance doesn't have anyone personally capable of nuking an entire city. Jaina was the closest one to that and as I mentioned earlier, that was only with one of the most powerful magical artifacts in the world boosting her powers.

Seriously, go read some fucking books and do the in-game quests before you decide to start pulling shit out of your ass while accusing others of doing the same thing as you.

Fucking wikifags, I swear.

>>48608829
pretty much this. Adventurers managed to steal the engine of a moving train, after that anything else is child's play

>>48608829
Focusing Iris is guarded by Jaina's boy(dragon?)friend. They managed to snatch it while everyone was focused on Deathwing, they won't get such chance again.

>>48608889
yeah but he's mortal now. so he's literally just another dragon, with some respect tacked on to him bcs he bones jaina and helped save the world. if we wanted to make another WMD killing kalecgos would be trivial in comparison to actually finding the thing.

>>48608865
We did stop the train first.

>>48608889

you seem to be greatly underestimating the power of 25 determined murderhobos

kalec doesnt even have aspect powers anymore

25 adventurers would push his shit in so far his boipussy would resemble a crater

and if you think just because the artifact is in dalaran that means it is somehow safe? you're still wrong

ner'zhul sent a bunch of dumb orcs to retrieve artifacts of magical power during beyond the dark portal and they managed to steal shit from within dalaran

if a bunch of cavemen could do it than 25 top tier mortals could easily do so

>>48608954
by killing the conductor so hard that it derailed

>>48608858
They brought the Azsharite to the cannon to test fire it. Stormwind still stands, which means it didn't work.

>And there are wrecked ships everywhere. Your point?

Point is that the zeppelins work anything but fine

>It's hilarious that you accuse me of pulling shit out of my ass when you don't even know what the hell you're talking about. Jaina couldn't destroy Orgrimmar on her own. She needed the Focusing Iris to amplify her powers a shitload in order to do that. The Alliance doesn't have anyone personally capable of nuking an entire city. Jaina was the closest one to that and as I mentioned earlier, that was only with one of the most powerful magical artifacts in the world boosting her powers.

I'm talking about Malfurion, not Jaina. And Jaina is the person with the best access to the focusing iris, seeing as she's fucking its guardian.

>>48609050
I thought you were talking about Shandris, who HAS soloed Orgrimmar in at least two videos.

>>48608865
Technically we only stole the power source, not the entire engine. So it's more like we siphoned gas out of a train's engine.

>>48609050
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a raid/dungeon involving angry Jaina, Vereesa, Kalecgos and the Focusing Iris in the next expansion.

>>48609050
they didn't fire it you retard. jesus have you ever done the azshara quests.
>jaina is fucking the focusing iris' guardian
like kalecgos would ever put his relationship before his job. he'd fight jaina to the death before he lets her kill everyone, she's already tried and he knows that she's capable of it.

>>48609050

>They brought the Azsharite to the cannon to test fire it. Stormwind still stands, which means it didn't work.

Stormwind still standing is not an indication of whether the gun works or not. Please don't pretend like your fanon is fact.

>Point is that the zeppelins work anything but fine

They seem to work as well as ships.

>I'm talking about Malfurion, not Jaina.

I don't know why you assume Malfurion is capable of nuking a city, seeing as how every great feat of his is either completely defensive (holding Darkshore together) or achieved with the aid of some external force (wisp jihad at Hyjal).

Even so, Malfurion is a huge cuck and the least likely to do something like that.

>And Jaina is the person with the best access to the focusing iris, seeing as she's fucking its guardian.

Ah, yes, because Kalecgos is just going to hand it back to her, right? Lol. In Legion, Kalecgos is on the Council of Six despite the fact that Jaina left the Kirin Tor.

I wonder how much access she has to the Focusing Iris these days.

>>48605439
From the timeline in ultimate visual guide(the newest one we got), pretty much

Vanilla WoW is 25 years after WC1.
By now its about 32 years after WC1.

>>48606500
KT does not serve Sylvanas, he deposes her.

>>48609335
less likely still means he can

Horde power wankery is the worst thing these threads ever have.

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>>48609698
do the alliance have WMD's. no? that'd be why we're telling you if another war broke out with no rules and no honor the horde would probably win, because they have two that aren't being used and a design for another that just needs a power source.

>>48609698
>Horde power wankery is the worst thing these threads ever have.

god forbid we deviate from the eternal crying, bitching, and moaning of alliance fanboys in these threads

you won't find bigger crybabies in these threads than alliance fans

>>48609766
And this is the power wankery I am talking about.

Horde player are just disgusting.

>>48609800
So we are switching the Horde wanking On how they are looked over by the gods and have everything? like that's anything better.

Yes we can, everytime something bad happens to horde, Horde fanbase became bigger crybabies, which is why blizzard cater to them in the first place.

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>>48609698
>>48609800

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>>48609800
>>48609698
RvB was a mistake.

>>48609800
And Horde fanbase are actively attacking people in Real life, harress people on the internet, and ruining threads like you are doing.

Yes, Horde fanbase not only have bigger crybabies , they also contain more disgusting human beings.

>>48609845
>>48609872

thanks for proving my point, crybaby

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>picking a mortal faction
>ever

>>48609890
Oh pointing out you are a disgusting human being is crying? You have a very wide definition of the word.

Horde pandering ruined WoW lore, that's why any complain about how shit WoW is not sounds like crying to Horde fanboys.

>>48609845
oh please, this whole debate was about what would happen if jaina had dropped the tidal wave on orgrimmar. i'd say given the leadership in charge at the time another mana bomb is not out of the question, nor are any of the other world shattering weapons in the arsenal.

>>48609897
boy i wish we could join the legion. they're never gonna be destroyed or further their aims so why shouldn't they be a playable faction.

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>>48609872


I saw a shitty falling apart Honda Element with a Horde and Rebel Alliance sticker on it the other day driven by a 250 lbs white female with a black boyfriend.

it was pretty awesome

>>48609924

this what i mean lol

you just keep crying about how the hordies are all big meanies

god, you are pathetic

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>>48609973
As someone who has played a Warlock in WoW for the past 12 years, I'd totally be down for joining smuggest Orc in serving the Legion.

>>48609954
At the tiome of the tidal wave Jaina had the iris with her, the only thing that could beat that would be 10-25 loot-crazed murderhobos.

>>48609954
started >>48607738
the whole debate was Horde fanboy wanking on how powerful a Horde gun is with no lore backing it up while insulting alliance player.

>>48609989
No, I pointed out the fact you are a digusting human being.
You can call it crying all you want, won't change what you and your likes are.

>>48610022

Nope. Thrall could have killed her when she was trying to drown Orgrimmar but cared about her too much to do so.

>>48610047
>>48610061

this is how easily triggered the resident alliance fanboys are

literally chimping out and calling other people "disgusting human beings" over a video game

cringe as fuck

>>48610063
Stated in the book he was going to die if kalec didn't show up to stop Jaina.

He simply thought he is more powerful before spotting the Iris.

>>48610086
> Horde fanboy throwing insult around
> gets retaliated
> call people easily triggered

Horde fanboys are the one harassing people at Blizzcon over a video game, which is pretty disgusting by definition.

Keep using the dirty political trick kid, I am sure no one will realize what you are doing.

>>48610131

ah, yes

the phantom horde bullies who harass people at blizzcon of which there is no hard evidence to actually prove exist

no idea what "political trick" you're referring to

i just think you people crying and calling random people online disgusting humans is both hilarious and pathetic

literally autistic manchildren

>>48609978
every time i see this image i cannot imagine that woman in red has legs. in my mind's eye she is a smug flesh pyramid.

>>48610022
Problem is that the "power levels" in Warcraft doesn't make sense considering the limits of gameplay.

There's no way an orc with an axe, even empovered by Old God's remains, would be a credible threat to ~25 people who beat up 2 old gods, 3 dragon aspects at full power and top 2 demon lords + countless other shit.

Much less random ogre/orc/demon lieutenant.

>>48610168
Anyone who went to Blizzcon knows they exists.
If you never went there, don't say they don't.

The old "you are just as bad as me"trick.

You are not random people. you are horde fanboy who ruined the thread with your power wank, don't try making yourself sound innocent.

>>48610230
there is more than one person that is replying to you, you know.

>>48610168
>>48610170
>>48610086
>>48609989
If you don't want to look like a retard, stop typing like a 12 year old.
Seriously, you're not helping your case when you don't know how to use upper-case.
>>48610230
You fuck off, too.

>>48610242
I know, luckily people write differently and format differently.

>>48610244
Oh I will.

>>48610244
>People need to type proper on my 4chan!

Such low hanging fruit.

>>48610230

If anything, you ruined the thread with your pants-on-head autistic screeching about real-life morals. Don't try to pin the blame on a guy who debating lore when you're the faggot who dragged "purity of soul" and other such retarded bullshit onto a 4chan argument.

Fucking dumb faggot.