Erm guys... He's back...

>>48589346
I liked his books, they were fun and I always wanted him to write the Black Templar codex. Anything's better than Cruddace.

>>48589346

ABANDON SHIP

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>HAMMERS OF SIGMAR COMING THROUGH

>>48589346
I thought he'd started to redeem himself toward the end of his GW career.

So whats everyone's beef with this guy? His Ultramarine fluff? The one thats been part of the UM since their first codex?.

Nothing he writes could be worse than the garbage GW have been putting out lately.

>>48589712
Sadly this
"Warhammer" these days anon, not GW
Fucking eyeroll

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>>48589346
Well, it's not good news. But it's not bad news either.
I guess this is just news.

Not sure what else can be said. Dont like his hair so that's something.

I wonder what he'll work on.

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One race will be hyped up to sell units, can you guess which side it will be and which Storm Host will be chosen?

Age of Sigma is dead in the water, Matt Ward will kill it.

>>48589863
I think you're correct that Matt Ward will kill it.
But you're wrong assuming that he will work on Age of Sigmar.

tbqh,
in wh40k he did good.
People complained about GK and NewCrons back then, but truth is this: Under his authorship the rules were decent enough, tournamentplay was fun and interesting.

with release of the last edition and the codici released after he had gone away, 40k has dropped off immensely in Germany in my opinion. The rules got shit, overcomplicated, the arms race was ridiculously accelerated and new rules got published at an alarming rate - making it impossible to keep up imho.

Ward being back to GW, maybe even writing again for 40k would be something I'd be excited about. Sure, the newest codex will always be the strongest - BUT all his codexes were balanced against each other and not ridiculously OP.

>>48589346
Eeeeeeh it depends.

His LOTR game is by far the best game GW put out.
On the other hand, his fluff can be a bit dodgy.

If 40k gets an AoS-ification, it can be good or bad, depending on whether he writes the fluff or the crunch.

I'm pretty sure he'll be extra careful not to fuck up this time though so that's good.

>>48589346
>ward writes his masterpiece
>warhammer reaches its end times

>warhammer 40k nears its times of ending
>ward returns

I'm scared

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>>48589905
>>48589950

Matt Ward pitches and aims everything to kids. He tells kids why this is awesome, why it they should buy this, what, how and when to do things.

He removes player agency from the game which is cancer for older gamers which is the life blood of the game.

Our savior has returned! Our faith was nit in vain! O, blessed day!

>>48589997
>warhammer 40k nears its times of ending
It's not happening, stop pretending it is.

>>48590009
the fuck are you talking about?
The stuff he wrote made for great and fun tournaments with varied army lists

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>>48590026
>WHF isn't ending, stop pretending it is.

>>48590026
I don't know anon, the new Eldar stuff seriously hints at some end times stuff for me.

Hopefully not, since the lore is too big and dense to be scrapped, but rather changed bit by bit, to put it back on good tracks.

Just laking the rules better would go a long way in making the whole experience more enjoyable, and Wars is not bad for that.

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>>48589346
I would send him multiple death threats if it wasn't highly illegal.

However I'd rather have him writing the Nid Codex than that the guard loving faggot Crudance.

He's the best GW ever had. Low bar to clear, I know, but still.

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>>48589346
>Ultramarines now the OP force in Horus Heresy
>Every Ultramarine is basically Guillman
>Every Grey Knight/Knight errant with ultramarine origin is basically Draigo
Prepare those primarch hearts guys, we got some names to carve into them

>>48589702
>THE ULTRAMARINES ARE LITERALLY JESUS
>THEY CAN DO NO WRONG
>SPIRITUAL LEIGE

Fuck off.

>>48590234
You're fucking retarded. Stop baiting.

I don't hate him but he clearly didn't have a full grasp on 40k lore, his WHFB (RIP) and LOTR work was a lot better than anything he wrote for 40k

The end times will come, thats for sure, but it wont be like AoS where everything gets scrapped. It will be the same thing they've been doing recently, move forward the current set of 'apocalypse scenarios' via campaigns and boxed sets and replace them with new 'apocalypse scenarios' thus going back to the status quo with a fresh layer of paint. For example: The fact that Baal was threatened by Nids was something that was 'happening' since like 5th ed (?) and now its been explored that while the BA fought off the hordes they suffered losses and Ka'bhanda and his demon host is now going to Baal or something like that, same with the Wulfen, it was something thats been in the fluff for years and no one touched it until now and we got Fenris getting fucked up.

Now its the Eldar 'apocalypse' with the Rhana Dandra or whatever which will move the setting forward and open up new shit to write about, the 13th crusade will probably get a new fluff piece and my bet is Abaddon will break out of Cadia as the Demon Primarchs rush out of the warp, then the Black Legion will splinter which will give the Imperium an opportunity to defend itself.

>>48590234
The dude who created the Eldar is far far far superior in every aspect.

>>48589551
ABADDON SHIP!

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>>48590026
You know it's happening, don't fool yourself, repent for shit is going to get broken and big!

His fluff is garbage, unoriginal and is the opposite of what makes 40k appealing.

>>48590254
Ah, so you think Ward invented 'Ultrawankery'?.

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>>48590393
Noooo, but he did give it a throne bigger than the Emperors.

>>48589702
Grey knights fluff for me.

Just have him write the rules for everyone and nothing else
Their games will finally have some kind of balance

>>48590254
Go read 2nd edition codex ultramarines.

>>48590408
Ward's biggest offense weren't ultrasmurfs but WHFB 6th Edition Demons.

>>48590644
True, that made the army unplayable.

Ward wrote pretty good rules. His fluff is found wanting, which most people will never drop because, lets face it, they play the game for the fluff, not the mechanics or "High Quality Miniatures"

>>48590254
Someone learned about 40k through 1d4chan

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>>48589346
>Thoughts?
pic related.

>>48590777
fuck off.

Ultimately, the Ward hate was lessening for the simple reason of that the other options were worse. Not that he was getting any better.

Nevertheless an argument could be made that his involvement in WHFB in it's final years is what killed it. GW knew he was a terrible fit for the game, they'd known it for years and yet they let him write the 8th Ed Magic Lores and all three of the elf books.

With hindsight I think it's fairly obvious that Age of Sigmar was their intention from the start of 8th Ed.

I never did read what he was supposed to have written so badly..

>>48590644
>>48590665
You have no clue. Nobody gives a shit about daemons. But there are legions of non-smurf Marinefags who got butthurt having to read that their plastic soliders literally pray to Marneus Augustus and Robot Girlyman.

>>48590393
>>48590623
>>48590777

He progressed a shit lore idea instead of stopping it and replacing it with something not faggy.

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>>48590690
>flying dreadnoughts and deep striking land Raiders
>good rules

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>>48590690
>This is a viable build for GKs

>>48589702
He writes shitty fluff but good crunch (for GW anyway).

>>48589346
Draigocast Eternals incoming

Why can't they rehire Alessio Cavatore or Andy Chambers?

>>48589346

Let me guess, The Celestant-Prime will turn out to be Draigo.

>>48589702
He's a poor fluff writer but an excellent producer of codices.

>>48593050
Still better than Cruddace whos only good codex was the IG one.

Fuck you Cruddace, I want my Templars back.

>>48589346
He'll be writing the Eldar section of End Times 40k.

>>48589346
please Please PLEASE

let him write the new ork codex.

>>48593121

Let me guess, he secretly already wrote all the outline for the Beast Series. Why else would a Mega-Ork humble the High Lords of Terra on Terra itself with Ork Death Stars and Hover-Gargants?

>>48593068
>Fuck you Cruddace
I play tyranids without flyers.
Please try to understand my rage.
>>48593050
Exactly.
Everyone complains about power creep but his codices were really, really great.
they were fun, fluffy and every army had a lot of character. also, they played great against each other. If he kept making codices and eventually wrote/helpoed writing all of them we would have a balanced 40k.
No one is overpowered when everyone is.
he really should not be allowed to touch the fluff, EVER.

>>48589346

Chaos Marine player here.

It sure must be hard having rules written by Ward.

>>48593155
>Everyone complains about power creep

If we're being frank the power creep wasnt that bad for the books that were updated in 5th edition and the real problem was that over half of the codex were made in 4th ed or earlier and languished there until 6th. Black Templars and Dark Angels had more FAQ pages than codex and Eldar/Necrons/Tau were severely out of date while Orks/CSM/Demons were made at the end of 4th and by 5th the entire designing of armies changed in direction which made them feel outdated even they kind of werent.

>>48593150
i haven't read that... but that sounds fucking awesome.

Now I'm going to go cry in the corner since my army CAN'T do that.

>>48593236
>he real problem was that over half of the codex were made in 4th ed or earlier and languished there until 6th
and that's hardly ward's fault.
But back then, everyone lost their mind and for years people blamed him for the ruining of 40k.

>>48593004
Didn't a warphopping grey knight already appear in the end times fluff.

>>48593121
enjoy your orks wanting to be ultramarines now. and not just for shit and giggles.

at least the real world got him to get a fucking haircut

>>48593023
Alessio works for Warlord Games.

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>>48593362
lol really?
Please source me on that it sounds hilarious.

>>48593955
yeah, at some point in the Khaine book, some elves go into the realm of chaos to go retrieve some macguffin and encounter and team up with a silver armoured knight who's hand spit fire and carried a great sword and shield who skullfucked daemons left and right

>>48593988
ok my love for whimsical crossovers is going crazy over that.
Good sillyness by GW

>>48589346
WHEN EVERYTHING IS BROKEN NOTHING IS BROKEN
WHEN EVERYTHING IS BROKEN NOTHING IS BROKEN
WHEN EVERYTHING IS BROKEN NOTHING IS BROKEN
WHEN EVERYTHING IS BROKEN NOTHING IS BROKEN
WHEN EVERYTHING IS BROKEN NOTHING IS BROKEN

>>48590009
>He removes player agency from the game
Just like formations.

>>48594401
Yes anon, balance is when everything is on the same level.

>>48593988
It's a foreboding.

GW is using Matt Ward not to AoSify 40k, but rather to merge both game lines together. The 40k end times will end with a warp storm that will swallow everything and drop the 40k universe into AoS, both lines will be compatible.

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I kinda hope that Ward is writing crunch for Sisters and that he is the herald of plastic.

>>48594822
Sisters will get a board game with 10 sisters and a canonness that costs $200 and that's it.

>>48590009
his 40k books were solid and fun at both a casual level and a competitive level. Plenty of variety beyond the power builds too, though people often forget it.

his LotR stuff is some of the best rules work to come out of a company with a lot of really good rules in its library (despite the flagship rulesets of WHF/AoS/40k being mediocre at best).

his fantasy rules were shit

His fluff was largely just a callback to 2nd edition, which pissed off the 3rd/4th edition crowd.

Memes poisoned the well, though. Now the 1d4tards have an irrational hatred for him because of stuff he didn't have any control over.

>>48590144

But literally the entirety of the 40k fluff for the last decade has been doing that hasn't it? I must admit, I'm very out of touch with current 40k (like, haven't picked up anything in over a year, and haven't picked up a new codex in even longer), but I seem to recall pretty much every codex I picked up in the last couple editions has literally been "minute to midnight" since WH has been stuck at m41.999 since like, the early 2000s, or whenever the whole eye of terror campaign happened

>>48594956
>his fantasy rules were shit
The ones he did for White Dwarf were kinda fun.

>all these Wardians

I never thought I'd see the day when enough time had past where Matt Ward's failures would be forgotten.

He made armies and characters entirely different people, he didn't leave much up to the influence of the player, everything was defined to Matt Ward's liking. You didn't like what Matt Ward liked? Well fuck you.

He also harkened back to the 1st and 2nf editions, even though those editions had nothing to do with the flavor and feel of theater editions. The setting was more serious and Matt Ward but in forced the old lore into the new setting without any regard. There was nothing wrong with the 1st and 2nd edition fluff, but they couldn't be mixed in with the later edition fluff.

Drago is the prime example of Matt Ward's creative limits. Drago is simply a bad ass because Ward says so, no reason, no cause, he's just better than a daemon primarch because he's writing the lore.

He'd do some balancing work for Chaos, Nids and Orks but if you're anyone else you'd fight tooth and nail to keep Ward away from your favorite characters.

>>48596838
>Drago is simply a bad ass because Ward says so, no reason, no cause, he's just better than a daemon primarch because he's writing the lore.
Yes, let's ignore that mighty heroes exist in the Imperium that take on incredible odds and win.
Let's ignore that a REGULAR HUMAN took on Ann'grath, mightiest of all Bloodthirsters, the one that went toe to toe with Sanguinius himself, in CC and fucking WON.
Your entire post encapsulates the hamfisted nonsense /tg/ posters use to denigrate some, but will turn around and hold up bad codices like Daemonhunters (which had no original lore of it's own at all and had shit rules even for it's time) and Oldcrons (that allowed for NO actual player choice in theme) as great work.

>>48597019
>if you didn't explicitly say one thing is retarded then you must think it's great.

It's retarded as well. A regular human can't take on Ann'grath. That's dumb, Daemonhunters was dumb, Matt Ward was dumb.

>>48596838
Nobody is celebrating his narrative writing, retard. His books were well written rulewise in that they allowed for lots of varied and flavourful options and didn't use that as an excuse to make them weak either.

His shitty fluff isn't any worse than anything GW has shat out since then anyway.

>>48595223
There were some of his fantasy rules I liked, but as a whole they weren't very good.

>>48596838
>he's just better than a daemon primarch because he's writing the lore
Might as well say it's the same for the grey knight that took on angron and won, m8. Demon primarchs dying to grey knights is pretty fuckin' normal.

>>48597019
>Yes, let's ignore that mighty heroes exist in the Imperium that take on incredible odds and win.

Fuck you. Draigo one punching Morty is an abomination of the fluff. It wasn't a good or epic fight, it was wanking at the extreme and anyone who defends this supports cancer.
>Let's ignore that a REGULAR HUMAN took on Ann'grath, mightiest of all Bloodthirsters, the one that went toe to toe with Sanguinius himself, in CC and fucking WON.

Context doesn't matter for you. eh?

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>>48598411

>>48589988
Maybe he'll write LotR again which wouldn't be so bad.

>>48598643
"Le it's not meant to be taken serious" reply is vapid and void as your head.

40K isn't a satire or parody. Rogue Trader was that, 40K moved past that. It's a setting of its own right like Star Wars, Dune, or whatever. So when we see bad writing that basically ruins the enjoyment of the setting, then we can call it out.

I dare you to go to the threads of any setting and try the "Not to be taken seriously, it's justa comic, cartoon, etc", I bet a lot of folks will tell you to fuck off as they should.

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>Matt Ward REEEEEEE

>>48598673
>So when we see bad writing
thing is, the bulk of the writing for 40k is bad. Draigo and Mortarion aren't any more noteworthy than Aurelian and Angron or Stern and M'Kachen, or Bjorn and Magnus, or Hector Rex and An'ggrath.

Dudes die. Demons in particular, because they can always get recycled.

>>48598718
Fuck you for the second time. No, 40K doesn't have a lot of bad writings. Most of it decent.

All the examples you mentioned were epic fights that took all great sacrifice and effort for the Imperial guys to win because they were facing terrible foes high above their punching level. Again, you motherfucker, context matters.

In contrast, Draigo and Morty fight wasn't even a fight. Draigo casually kills Morty's guard and then one punches. What is this? A slap in the face of an established character and his fans just to wank a new character that Ward created. It's never explained why Draigo is SO powerful. He just is because Ward wrote him this way.

The fact that you using faulty argument after faulty argument to defend this means you literally support cancer. You are bloody monster.

>>48589504
7th Edition Daemons of Chaos armybook killed the whole game singelhandedly. I have a hard time thinking why you would say that you like his stuff.

>>48598765
>Draigo casually kills Morty's guard and then one punches.
Except mortarion killed the grand master of the grey knights as well as his retinue.

>All the examples you mentioned were epic
Not particularly. Hey how about the fight where calgar killed an'ggrath. That's another one I forgot about.

or hell, how about the time where everyone ever killed m'kar the reborn, to the point where he's now suffered perma-death (likely from embarrassment)

I like 40k quite a bit, and have for decades, but I am under no illusions as to its quality of writing.

>>48598718
People get pissed when things that are supposed to be damn near demigods (daemon primarchs for one) get bowled over like a chump by Literally Who the Gary Stu.

It would be different if it was some desperate confrontation where a mortal rose to the status of a hero and beat back a daemon primarch but at great loss (1st War for Armageddon) but we didn't get that story. We get a guy no one ever heard of before that is suddnly the most badass Grey Knight evar who just solos the Realm of Chaos likes it's no big thing. It reads like a bad teenager's self-insert fanfiction.

40k has never had deep or impressive writing but we enjoy the conglomerate of sci-fi/fantasy elements and the setting that has arose from them. People would/are equally as upset with things like Star Wars getting the same treatment and it too is not very well written.

>>48598808
>where a mortal rose to the status of a hero and beat back a daemon primarch but at great loss (1st War for Armageddon)
it was a grey knight who did that, m80

>>48598801
>Except mortarion killed the grand master of the grey knights as well as his retinue.

Set up for Draigo to go full Saiyan and create a fluff abomination.

>Not particularly. Hey how about the fight where calgar killed an'ggrath. That's another one I forgot about.

What's with you butchering the context? The Grey Knights started a banishing ritual and Anrgy-roth was getting banished. While his body was falling apart he did one last gambit, he grabbed Calgar and tried to bite his head off. Calgar used this to his advantage and shattered the daemons head when it drew close enough. Again CONTEXT MATTERS!

>or hell, how about the time where everyone ever killed m'kar the reborn, to the point where he's now suffered perma-death (likely from embarrassment)

M'kat fluff is mocked and criticized rightly by many. And you know who created M'kar and wrote his fluff? Ward. So you are not doing yourself any favors.

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>>48598801
I like to think of pretty much all 40k fluff and writing as the "Imperial propaganda" version of events, heavily stylized and repeated until desperate actions become disgustingly heroic and grimstupid, mundane bodies like the Administratum turned into massive, heaving organizations that cause as much trouble as they solve.

This is because I can take some of the 40k fluff in stride, but other stuff I just flat out ignore.

>>48598819
Irrelevant. Angron fight was an glorious battle of sacrifice and bloodshed.

Draigo's one is of wankery and disgrace.

The funny thing is that BL retconned the Draigo story to make it more believable. Even the author of the audiobook said that the story as presented in the codex was pure bullshit. You know what happened? GW retconned it back to its original version and made it WORSE!

>>48598867
>Today, L J Goulding gives a little insight into how he really feels about one of Warhammer 40,000’s most infamous heroes:
>“So, Mortarion’s Heart is here. I know that a lot of you have been looking forward to this one. Mostly, this seems to be because you love the Grey Knights, the Death Guard or Mortarion himself, but plenty more of you apparently can’t wait to find out what the story behind the Codex background text might actually be. Believe me, if I hadn’t been the one to write it, I’d be feeling exactly the same as you right now. Either way, this is going to be one to remember.

>As I’ve said before, Kaldor Draigo is larger than life. He’s got a legend built up around him, a kind of mystique that borders on dark celebrity, both in the Warhammer 40,000 universe and as a gaming character on the tabletop. Whether you believe that legend in a literal, word-for-word sense is between you and whatever dice-gods you venerate, and if that means you enjoy your games a little more as a result then that’s just awesome.

>Personally, I don’t believe it for a second. I’m a ‘Draigo denier’, if you like – as inspiring as the image is, I don’t believe that a single warrior (short of the Emperor himself) could fight his way through an army of daemonic champions, single handed, then beat a battle-fresh primarch into submission in a fair fight, and finally give him a proverbial slap on his bony rump to send him crying home to Papa Nurgle.

Here is the text from the interview.

>>48598819
I'm aware, along with hundreds of other grey knights plus Emperor knows how many million fucking guardsmen.

It was a cataclysmic fight that saw virtually all of the Grey Knights present to be destroyed and only succeeded because they had obtained Angron's true name.

>>48598843
>Set up for Draigo to go full Saiyan and create a fluff abomination.
it's almost like humble brother captains have made a habit of killing daemon primarchs, because this is not the first time it's happened.

>but context!
Demon primarchs show up, wreck a bunch of shit, then some named hero punks them. They're three for three on it, and none of them are any better written than the others. And only once has the guy doing the punking been killed for it.

>>48598867
>The funny thing is that BL retconned the Draigo story to make it more believable
I doubt you've read the book, because it was even stupider.

>>48598861
That's the smart way to do it. I just don't understand the "bitch about it online" mindset. 40k has never held itself to a very high standard of literature.

>>48598878
> And guess what? That’s not what happened at all. Oh, you agree with me? Excellent. I think we’re going to get along just fine. I’m not going to spoil the audio drama for you, but this isn’t a tall tale about a Space Marine somehow managing to beat a daemon prince in single combat. It’s not about making the Deathshroud into cannon fodder. It’s not about the size, disposition or relevance of Mortarion’s internal organs. You have to look beyond the legend, if you want to find the story.

> Heck, this audio drama is not even really about Kaldor Draigo, when you boil it right down. He was just the wrong man in the right place when the eye of destiny fell upon Kornovin. The moment I realised that, the script practically leapt onto the page for me.

And here is the rest of it.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/mortarions-heart-audio-mp3.html

>>48598890
>I'm aware, along with hundreds of other grey knights plus Emperor knows how many million fucking guardsmen.
It was actually just one dude fighting angron.

>This Thread

It's always fun to see the youffs of 40k shit their pants at Ward again when all he did was recycle shit from 2nd edition and keep the same tone.

Ward is basically the magnifying glass you can use to find the new generation of utter shitheads who take 40k far too seriously.

Also, Draigo is one of the better written stories in 40k and here is why.

He's utterly pointless. He is literally, no matter how strong or how much damage he goes, entirely fucking worthless in the grand scheme of things. He's a symbol of the Imperium's futile efforts.

And you fucking morons never see that do you?

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>>48598673
>>48598765
>>48598843
>>48598867
>>48598878
>>48598900

I'm pretty sure someone somewhere is insulting Archaon or Abaddon in some other thread right this instant, maybe you should go over there instead.

>>48598893
>it's almost like humble brother captains have made a habit of killing daemon primarchs, because this is not the first time it's happened.

No, they don't. Your talking shit now. Just admit you have no ground to stand on. You are practically faltering.

>Demon primarchs show up, wreck a bunch of shit, then some named hero punks them.

After an intense battle where a lot of heroes sacrifice themselves and where artifacts of great power are used to send the monsters back

The Dtaigo fight? Not so much.

You been called out constantly about ignoring the context and yet you continue to do it.

>I doubt you've read the book, because it was even stupider.

I gave it a listen and it's a much better version than :Draigo alone fought his way through a daemon army and emerged unscathed and then he one punched a battle ready daemon primarch to submission"

I am one who doubts that you read it or listened to it.

>>48598673
Yes, it's a setting in its own right. Doesn't change the fact that it's a goofy, stupid mess, and you're a fucking idiot for taking it seriously.

This is a setting where space-knights with angry-faced helmets spend their days chainsawing space-orcs in half. But you're such an insecure manchild that you can't just enjoy the absurdity of that idea on its own, and have to ~justify~ it so that no-one will think you're dumb for liking it. Protip: no-one thinks you're dumb for liking 40K. We think you're dumb for insisting it's Deep and Serious Literature.

>>48598922
Fuck off. You can add to this discussion or you can simply go away.

Don't shitpost.

>>48598937
>>48598952

>All that hyperbole and angry disregard of an argument

Hello Carnac, finally out of the AoS thread because your husbando Archaon dies to Ogors now?

>>48598937
>Just admit you have no ground to stand on. You are practically faltering.
But I'm right, which is why you have nothing to respond with beyond insults.

Shit, have I gone back in time? Is it 2011 again?

>>48598944
A lot of settings are over the top and fantastical. Yet I don't see any other setting treated the same way 40K is by some idiots like yourself.

It's not an argument. It's a cowardly way to escape criticism of some of the writing of the setting. You might as well not take any work of fiction seriously because you just dislike discussion.

>>48598944
>hurr durr muh sci-fi parody
>you're dumb because you don't agree with me

Not that guy but he's not dumb just because he wants to take 40k seriously, the setting has room for both silly parody and serious moments, but yknow, how dare someone disagree with you right?

>>48598965
You've literally offered nothing as a counterpoint there other than
>B-b-but I'm right
I think it's safe to say you lost this one friendo

>>48598956
What disregard? He is not providing an argument. He continuously ignoring context and spotting his opinions as facts.

>>48598965
>But I'm right, which is why you have nothing to respond with beyond insults.

Nope, you said that his brother captains made a habit of killing Daemon Primarchs. Outside of the Angron fight which was a a total bloodshed which the Grey knights wouldn't have won without the help of the Space Wolves, where did the Grey Knights kill Daemon Primarchs?

Also I love how you ignored the rest of my post and refused to show HOW the Draigo fight compares to the other fights.

>>48599011
>which the Grey knights wouldn't have won without the help of the Space Wolves
the grey knights were the ones who came to rescue the space wolves in that fight

don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, dude

>>48599011
>Ignoring context

Alright then Carnac. How is he ignoring context.

Daemon Primarchs show up and die all the time.

Are you going to whine Magnus, arguably the most powerful of the Daemon Primarchs was manhandled by a Dreadnought?

>In 444.M41, Angron invaded the Imperial hive world Armageddon. He led four World Eaters companies and a daemonic host against the local defenders and their Space Wolves allies. Angron's forces ravaged the planet, but he was continually forced to slow his advance to erect monuments to Khorne in order to sustain his Daemonic form in the Materium. In the end however he was defeated when he was confronted by a force of 109 Grey Knights. Angron and his escort of twelve Bloodthirsters, the Cruor Praetoria, initially decimated the Grey Knights sent before him until a newer recruit and extraordinarily powerful Psyker Hyperion managed to first snap, then break the Black Blade at the height of the struggle. Now at a disadvantage, Angron was banished back to the Warp by Brother-Captain Taremar Aurellian in a battle that only thirteen Grey Knights survived.

So 109 Grey Knights fought Angron and 12 Bloodthirsters and some even survived at the end.

Jesus Carnac, learn the fucking fluff.

>>48599028
>the grey knights were the ones who came to rescue the space wolves in that fight

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK I am angry right now.

THE SPACE WOLVES WERE THE ONES WHO DELIVERED THE GREY KNIGHTS TO THEIR POSITION.

THE SPACE WOLVES CARRIED THE DAY SO MUCH THAT KHORNE HIMSELF BLAMES THEM FOR THAT DEFEAT, AND NOT THE GREY KNIGHTS.

>>48592974

What, really? They employee people to do both jobs?? What the fuck is wrong with GW

>>48599048
Calm down mr Autismo.

Space Wolf player here. The fact that the Space Wolves managed to hold four world eater companies and a Daemonic host from ravaging a single planet is badass.

Who cares if the Daemonhunters hunt Daemons.

>>48599044
>Daemon Primarchs show up and die all the time.

At this point you are trolling.

Again, you ignoring the context. Like I said, the fights that you pointed where epic and intense that took great effort and sacrifice to win the day.

They aren't a single guy defeating a a daemon army, the elite daemonic bodyguard, and THEN ONE PUNCHING A DAEMON PRIMARCH all bu himself.

The previous fights do not justify this because they are nothing like it at all.

>>48589863

It's unlikely he'll work on AoS, which actually has apparently begun to pick up.

If anything GW might tap the work he did on the End Times books to help with the plot advancement that is apparently going to happen in 40k.

>>48589950

Rules getting published fast is arguably a good thing. It's best when everyone is on a level playing field and no army is languishing with rules that were meant for another edition.

Of course this doesn't mean that GW should do like they've done with 7th Edition. Honestly the way they've gone about inserting Decurions has been pretty half-assed and to me seems like something that should have been in the first 7th Codex. Than again FW has this problem too, they put out compiled rulebooks that lack units and rules that the newest book has introduced.

>>48590009

And going by the games popular today, no one gives much of a fuck about player agency.

Shit, no one in 40k gives much of a fuck about player agency. The most popular SM Chapters are those of the First Founding or their close descendants. The most popular CSM Warbands are the Traitor Legions. People jerk off about the more well known IG regiments and not their special snowflakes.

No one else, bar maybe those who play Craftworld Eldar, Orks, or Farsight Enclaves really jerk off about a faction within their army because those armies have don't have any factions who are more than glorified color schemes. Player agency plays no role.

40k has a large number of people now who are more interested in factions or characters they've read about and who couldn't care less about creating their own army background and color schemes. If you enjoy the aforementioned than more power to you, but I don't think it should be passed off as the absolute norm.

>>48599068
You are not a Space Wold player. I am revoking your membership. If you were you would have read known of Khorne's personal grudge against Logan and the Space Wolves for helping the Grey Knights end Angron's wrath.

I mean FUCK the reason the final fight happened was because of Logan's tactical genius in a hellish chaotic situation. I know this and I am not a Space Wolf fan!

>>48594944
Still cheaper than what you pay for Sisters now

>>48599078
>More caps and Hyperbole

>>48599095
Pretty sure Khorne would be more pissed off Logan is using a Khornate Daemon axe covered in wolfshit to kill his Legions. But whatever, you sound like a 5th manbaby anyway.

>>48599078
I'm sorry, but no.

Bjorn literally wakes up at the last second and throws Magnus off the planet.

109 Grey Knights killed Angron and 12 Bloodthirsters with men to spare.

Morty the worst Primarch and his Shitsniffers getting bushwacked by a Crazy Grey Knight Grandmaster sounds fine to me.

Or are you forgetting Morty is a clinically depressed asshat?

>>48598997
Engage with the overblown action-hero melodrama, sure. But 40K is so far removed from reality, both in the broad strokes and in the specifics, that it has basically nothing worthwhile to say about life, reality or human nature. That is why you should not take it "seriously".

But I guess asking 40K nerds to exercise a bit of self-awareness is a waste of fucking time.

>>48599105
No hyperpole. It's as written in the fluff. The Draigo fight stands out as an abomination among all the other fights.

And about Logan.

>Hundreds of years ago, on the burning fields of Armageddon, Logan Grimnar incurred the wrath of the Blood God. Khorne’s mightiest champions had been defeated by the combined might of the Space Wolves and Grey Knights, great Angron himself banished back to the Warp alongside the dozen-strong honour guard of Bloodthirsters that fought by his side. Grimnar had been newly promoted to Great Wolf a matter of months before the battle began, but it was his strategic genius and unflinching heroism that had held the legions of Chaos at bay long enough for Khorne’s servants to be foiled. It was Grimnar who had slain one of the mightiest lords of the World Eaters, claiming his axe as wargelt. It was Grimnar who had been hailed as Armageddon’s great victor. It was Grimnar upon whom the eye of wrathful Khorne had settled, and whose skull the Blood God now desired above all others.

>Time flows differently in the Warp, days passing in years, decades in mere moments. All the while, Khorne’s desire for revenge roiled in the Immaterium, growing furnace hot and forging legions of Daemons whose only purpose was its fulfilment. Bargains were struck, mighty entities trammelled in brass and fire and standing ready in serried ranks for their master’s command. Now, as the skies opened above Alaric Prime and the Warp bled through, the Blood God seized his chance. Grimnar’s bane was loosed upon the world. The blood debt would be settled.

It was that and the fact that Logan cost Khorne the war. But i don't expect you to know lore or context./

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>>48598718
>>48598893
>>48598937
>>48598965

Ah, this is fantastic. Re-fighting the battles of 2011. Thank you, Matt Ward. Thank you for what you're doing to this board! Time to break out the old memes, I guess!

Nostalgia tiem!

>>48599128
>Grimnar had been newly promoted to Great Wolf a matter of months before the battle began, but it was his strategic genius and unflinching heroism that had held the legions of Chaos at bay long enough for Khorne’s servants to be foiled. It was Grimnar who had slain one of the mightiest lords of the World Eaters, claiming his axe as wargelt.

LITERALLY exactly what I explained. Space Wolves held off the Legions of CSM and Daemons, Grimnir took a Chaos marine axe and made it into his own.

Do you even read what you fucking post Carnac?

YES, Logan cost him Armageddon, not because he was there killing Angron, but because he was HOLDING THE LINE.

>>48599119
Self-awareness? I have been wanking to Draigo's power-trip journey ever since 5E came out. I mean... he's obviously the best Space Marine alive! ZOMG!!!!

>>48599137
pls no, those were dark times and I do not want them back

that's when carnac was still namefagging as TIDF

>>48599116
>Bjorn literally wakes up at the last second and throws Magnus off the planet.

Post the fight text, then I want to see the whole context.

With Bjorn is believable considering what we know about him from Curse of the Wulfen. He is basically a living (wolf) saint now. While he is a sleep, his soul sours into the Warp and it battles the daemons of the Warp that are circling Fenris. He has been fighting daemons daily for nearly 10K years.

>109 Grey Knights killed Angron and 12 Bloodthirsters with men to spare.

The only got there because of the Space Wolves. They didn't fight their way across the whole daemon army to get there.

The fight between them was brutal and it took the sacrifice of a couple of heroes to actually win.

None are comparable to Draigo.

>Mort is a shit

Not an argument.

Mort is supposedly one of the toughest primarchs in endurance. One punching him? That's just no.

>>48599173
>With Bjorn is believable
That's a real hot opinion you got there.

GOD IS DEAD
GOD IS DEAD
GOD IS DEAD
GOD IS DEAD

>>48599148
>YES, Logan cost him Armageddon, not because he was there killing Angron, but because he was HOLDING THE LINE.

Are you illiterate. I never said that Logan bested Angron. I said that Khorne is mad at Logan for

1-Holding off the daemons from winning
2-delivering the knights to where they should be
3-Killing many of his champs and stealing one of his axes and enslaving its power through Fenris's power

So you implying that Khorne only hates Logan for the axe is false. He burns more over the defeat of his legions.

>he nearly killed our company
>BETTER HIRE HIM BACK
>AND RAISE PRICES

GW never change

>>48599181
I don't have the Battle of Fenris novel with me at the moment. Could you please copy pasta the fight bit? So we can judge together.

>>48599191
So what the fuck are you whining about then?

Nobody in this entire thread disagreed that the Space Wolves Held the line.

You were arguing the Space Wolves defeated Angron. They didn't; that was the Grey knights.

Don't start using the Space Wolves in your little autistic rampage against the Grey Knights Carnac.

>>48599192
>he nearly killed our company
Actually if we're being literal, he was one of the ones responsible for the massive LotR bubble, which put the company to heights they will never, ever get back to.

>>48590352
>in every aspect
<sensible chuckle>

>>48599203
>You were arguing the Space Wolves defeated Angron. They didn't; that was the Grey knights.

I SAID THAT THE SPACE WOLVES HELPED THE GREY KNIGHTS DEFEAT ANGRON.

And I said that Khorne blames Logan for that defeat.

You should check the post chain or learn2read.

>>48599209
I was thinking long term loss of sales.

>>48599209
He wrote more of the fantasy end times fluff including End Times Khaine. Why don't you ask about it in /WHFB/

>>48599214
No, the Space Wolves helped the Grey Knights defeat the First Invasion of Armageddon.

Space Wolves didn't take part personally in the defeat of Angron himself.

>>48590343

They pretty much spelled out in the 6th Edition CSM codex what the beginning is going to be.

Abaddon is going to launch his 13th Black Crusade with the plan of expanding the Eye of Terror towards Terra so that the Daemon Primarchs and daemons can manifest with ease. Meanwhile Chaos forces in the Maelstrom will take advantage of the Imperium being preoccupied with the aforementioned to launch their own attacks. You'll probably have stuff with the Tau, Orks, Necrons, and Dark Eldar also taking advantage of the lack of Imperial presence for their own benefit. Hive Fleets will barrel through systems with no brakes.

The Horus Heresy in universe only lasted around seven years, GW has managed to stretch it out for over a decade with no real signs of being close to finished. I have no doubt that they could do something similar with the 13th Black Crusade. Trying to take Cadia alone could be quagmire that gets endless lore written about it.

If the current setting is five minutes to midnight, they're going to push it to one minute.

>>48590894

>With hindsight I think it's fairly obvious that Age of Sigmar was their intention from the start of 8th Ed.

There is decent evidence that it was in the planning, AoS terrain shows up in the Triumph and Treachery rulebook for Fantasy. The only real argument against the aforementioned is that said terrain was originally supposed to belong to other races or situated in some place like the Chaos Wastes and only later was ported to AoS. However considering that one of the aforementioned terrain pieces was a Realmgate, objects which play a vital role in the lore of AoS, I'm not sure how valid that argument is.

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>>48599192
I hear "RAISE PRICES" from GW in the same voice the Mad Hatter yells CHANGE PLACES, and with roughly the same frequency.

>>48590144
>seriously hints at some end times stuff for me.

No it doesn't. Eldar have been talking about Rhana Dandra being imminent for years.

>>48589346
Anyone else think he looks like someone who works at a sex shop?

>>48593023
They work for the competition now.

See KoW.

>>48599215
Those were mostly because of the LotR boom dying than anything ward or cavatore did. It was lightning in a bottle, and they were only going to go down afterwards.

X-Wing's the modern example, but since disney's going to pump out star wars shit I can see them lasting a bit longer.

>>48599220
That he did. But fantasy's mismanagement and eventual demise is a result of many things.

>>48599227
>No, the Space Wolves helped the Grey Knights defeat the First Invasion of Armageddon.

Okay?

>Space Wolves didn't take part personally in the defeat of Angron himself.

I never said that they did. I just said that the Space Wolves through the tactical genius of Logan brought the Grey Knights into position against Angron and his guard.

Thanks to the Wolves, the Grey Knights didn't have to crawl through a whole daemon army to reach Angron.

Which puts this in total opposite to the Draigo story where he fought his way UNSUPPORTED through the daemon army to reach Mort and his daemonic guard.

>>48599252
>But fantasy's mismanagement and eventual demise is a result of many things.
Like, not getting anything good after 6th ed's Lustria campaign book ?

>>48592974
>good crunch
Not for fantasy. His 7th ed armybooks started the game's death

>>48596838

>he's just better than a daemon primarch because he's writing the lore.
>Chapter who specialize at killing daemons
>Main guy is able to kill really strong daemons

Yeah, it's super hard to follow the logic. If anything Daemon Prince's no selling guys that specialize at killing them would be wankier.

>>48599245
The Rhanda Dandra begins when the PL gather at one place. Well, they did.

The fluff from Valedor and Hand of Asurman has the PL uniting for one las time and announcing that the Rhanda Dandra has started.

Also the Harlequin has them entering the Last Dance/Last battle.

So the fluff progressed. We are in the End Times.

>>48599235
yeah, and just as fucking insane

>>48599246
It's the look in his eyes. He wants to sell you dirty lustful things. Like GW minis.

>>48599268
Yeah. 7th and 8th were just clusterfucks.

>>48598643

>That post

Fucking saved.

>>48599278
>>Chapter who specialize at killing daemons

Hundreds of them have difficulty fighting and banishing a DP without the help of other Imperials and by great personal sacrifice.

Then comes a guy out nowhere with no character development and no reason for him to be the way he is, and does what the hundreds of his order did on his own without help or support.

>>48599294
I wonder if he's wanked to alarielle's new form as much as I have.

>>48599295
7th edition was more than 10 years ago, with the horrendous shift in aesthetics.

I personally wonder how WHFB survived until last year.

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Daily Reminder. More important now than ever.

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>>48599318
inertia from 6th edition

Island of Blood was a fucking good set, though.

>>48599323
Everyone knows the ultramarines are the best. And everyone also knows the rest can't handle the banter

>>48599307
>Hundreds of them have difficulty fighting and banishing a DP without the help of other Imperials and by great personal sacrifice.

So then how did 109 of them manage to take down one of the largest, angriest daemon Primarchs and his top-tier Bloodthirster buddies?

And Draigo didn't kill Mortarion completely by himself; Morty had been in combat with the previous Grandmaster immediately before Draigo joined the fray and took him down, and even then it was only because Draigo knew Morty's True Name (which fucks over daemons something fierce).

>>48599281

Uh, you're agreeing with what I said. Rhana Dandra has been in it's beginning phase for years. The "new Eldar stuff" is just following on stuff that's been established for ages.

>>48599318
>>48599335
7th was fine at first.
At the first..

>>48599372
>Rhana Dandra has been in it's beginning phase for years.

Not really. The confirmation of the Rhanda Dandra beginning is very recent. We were told before that it was going to start but nobody knew when or how.

>>48599307
>no reason for him to be the way he is

He is the top daemon hunter of a daemon hunting faction. What are you struggling with here?

>>48599379
No. 7th ed started with the pyjama state troops replacing the landsknetch. The only thing that early 7th ed was doing correctly was to consider SoC results as canon.

>>48599335
>making bullshit canon
>banter
no

>>48599355
>And Draigo didn't kill Mortarion completely by himself; Morty had been in combat with the previous Grandmaster immediately before Draigo joined the fray and took him down, and even then it was only because Draigo knew Morty's True Name (which fucks over daemons something fierce).

You confusing the audiobook with the codex canon. There were no naming or whatever in the canon version.

In the codex, Draigo stepped up smashed aside Mort's daemon army, his guard, and then one punched.

>So then how did 109 of them manage to take down one of the largest, angriest daemon Primarchs and his top-tier Bloodthirster buddies?

Read the Emperor's Gift.

>>48599393
No, he wasn't. There no step up for that. Like I said, Draigo has no character development. ZERO.

He got a field promotion after his commander was murdered by Mort and then he one shotted Mort. We are never told why Draigo is better than the rest of the Grey Knights dudes. He just is. Not even a cliche "He is the chosen one" crap. Draigo is ridiculously powerful because Ward says so. There is no other justification for it in the fluff.

>>48599384

>very recent
>nobody knew when or how.

It's been Rhana Dandra time for over two years anon. We knew it'd be when the PLs gathered at their club house and that happened two years ago in Valedor. The new stuff is about Eldrad and harlequins following up on the Valedor/Harlequin codex stuff about Cegorach's big ruse.

>>48599399
>bullshit
you're just saying that because you weren't alive in 1995

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>>48599399

He didn't make it canon. 2nd edition did.

>>48599424
Two years is very recent, anon.

So that's it, basically. I mean this is the final nail in the coffin, right?

There's no recovering from this. They might as well have just committed ritual suicide outside HQ.

>>48599423

It's the same for every fucking chapter master. Why is Dante the best Blood Angel? Why is Calgar the best ultra? Why is Khan the best White Scar?

Hell it's not even a Space Marine thing. Eldrad is the best Farseer, because he's the oldest farseer from the faction that specializes in pyskers. No explanation needed. It's not a mystery that the head of a faction is often the best at what they do.

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>>48599444
So what if it is, anon? Fuck it, full bore into the abyss

>>48599473
All the more reason to just subscribe to people who write better 3rd party rules.

>>48599465
No, they are not said to be the best, and all of them have character development that explains how they got where they are.

>Eldrad is the best Farseer

And so does Eldrad who has 10K years of experience to draw from and even he fails sometimes.

No, Draigo stands alone.

>>48599397
That and have rules that were a copy of 6th with some mild tweaks.
also
>caring about The Empire

>>48599261

....they fucking teleported in via teleporters on cruisers dumbass

>>48599429
Codex Ultramarines fanwanking Ultramarines is far less grating than Codex Space Marines fanwanking Ultramarines, pretty certain the Nids, Necrons and Chaos codexes have lines in them all saying their varias factions are the gravest threat to the galaxy ever, but if there was a Codex: things that want to destroy the galaxy people would be a bit miffed if it came down firmly on one of them.
>inb4 you tell me codex Ultramarines was de facto Codex Space Marines like it matters

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Wew, looks like I must have just imagined the times Carnac happily brought up Draigo "one punching" Mortarion as though he felt Primarchs being portrayed in such a way was only right and proper.

>>48599518

>all of them have character development

Like fuck they do. A tonne of them got field promoted just like Draigo with their only qualifier being they were around the longest and have the biggest dicks. Every faction has a best guy and most factions have some shtick they do better than others.

>>48599577
>inb4 you tell me codex Ultramarines was de facto Codex Space Marines like it matters

Kinda does matter seeing as they literally set the template for what a space marine is, which is then carried over to the fluff with them being the gold standard for marines as the writers of the codex. The in universe codex that is.

>>48599577
>Codex Ultramarines
>Codex Space Marines
Where's the difference?

>>48599606
>>48599577
Oh. Didn't read your greentext.

>>48593843
A fucking terrible one though

>>48599577
>Codex Ultramarines fanwanking Ultramarines is far less grating than Codex Space Marines fanwanking Ultramarines
Why wouldn't codex space marines wank on the ones who made the codex.

>>48599523
>not caring about The Empire
Peasant scum detected

>>48599667
You realise that isn't actually the codex astartes right?

>>48589346
He looks even worse now, I didn't think it was even possible.

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>>48599078
i think you have good points, mister.

>>48599675
right, it's codex adeptus astartes

In case none of you have ever read the fluff of Draigo vs Mortarion, I'll include it below. It's couched inside Draigo's more personal and longer struggle against M'Kar and subsequent exile into the Immaterium. This is what you're all currently arguing so buttflusteredly over:

"Victory on Acralem [note: against M'Kar] saw Draigo acclaimed with the rank of Justicar - the first of many such promotions. For two centuries Draigo served his Chapter and Emperor with unfailing distinction. He earned honours and glory unsurpassed by any Grey Knight before him, save perhaps Janus himself (...). He became Supreme Grand Master in the early days of 901.M41, following the slaughter of the previous Chapter Lord at the hands of the Daemon Primarch Mortarion, and his first act was to carve his forebear's name upon Mortarion's rotting heart - an insult that the Daemon has never forgotten.

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Age of Shitmar can keep him.
Hell, Tomb kings and Brets may even return.

>>48594822

Anon, Age of the Emperor is coming. If AoS taught us anything, it's that factions that haven't been updated in recent years get squatted

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>>48599757
So, cont'd, as an observation, it doesn't say at all how he went about shaming Mortarion, only that it was the first thing he did as Supreme Grand Master (a rank he attained after two centuries of service and being recognised in the same breath as Janus). It leaves you to fill in the gaps how many of the Third Brotherhood helped him do this, or indeed, how many Knights and Purifiers of the entire chapter were called in to help accomplish this payback. Only that it was his first action as Supreme GKGM.

>>48599776
Are you an idiot? Open the 7th Codex and read the story instead of copying it from the lex or the wiki.

>>48590894
>Ultimately

>>48599788

Posting the story.

>In 901.M41, Draigo’s path brought him to the war-torn world of Kornovin, a cursed place that had fallen under the control of the Daemon Primarch Mortarion of the Death Guard. It was here, among the smoke and blood of battle that Supreme Grand Master Geronitan was slain, leading a charge to bring down the corrupted Primarch. Through the press of warriors and Daemons, Draigo saw his Chapter Master fall, a cry of anguish and vengeance escaping his lips. Breaking ranks with his brothers, Draigo fought his way to where Geronitan had fallen, cutting down anything foolish enough to bar his way. Even Mortarion’s personal bodyguard fell before Draigo’s expert sword blows and single-minded determination. Before the Daemon Primarch could raise his terrible scythe the Grey Knight Grand Master struck him to the ground, the righteous fury of the Emperor burning in his eyes. Unable to destroy the Daemon’s essence, Draigo nonetheless carved Geronitan’s name upon Mortarion’s rotting heart before his mortal form dissipated. For this victory Draigo was elevated to the position of Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights.

-7th ED Grey Knight codex

It's good that you mentioned M'kar because M'kar (who is a Word Bearer daemon prince) gave Draigo more of a fight than the daemon primarch.

>>48599788
Being an idiot is debatable, but I was using the 6th ed codex since everyone was going on and on about Ward's fluff of Draigo.

So, here's the text from the 7th Ed codex, which isn't the "warddex"

"901.M41 The Battle of Kornovin.
Supreme Grand Master Geronitan is slain at the hands of the Daemon Primarch Mortarion. Grand Master Kaldor Draigo is elevated to the rank of Supreme Grand Master amidst the din of the battlefield and vows vengeance on Mortarion. Alone and unaided, Draigo smashes his way through Mortarion's corrupted Deathshroud bodyguard and strikes the Primarch to the ground with a blow empowered by his fury at Geronitan's death. He then carves Supreme Grand Master Geronitan's name on the Daemon's vile heart. Though Mortarion ultimately escapes, it is many long years before he can enter the mortal realm once more.
"
So, whoever wrote that, made it worse than what Matt Ward originally wrote.

>>48599834
yeah but ward is satan because 1d4chan told me so

>>48599825
Hey,
>>48599757
>>48599776
>>48599834
Here.
Man, why does Kaldor's personal fluff on page 23 differ slightly from the account on page 42 about the Time of Ending. They could at least make it slightly more consistent!

>>48599834
You mean 5th ED dex and Ward was still working for GW at the time of 7th ED. Why else would they ignore the better version from BL for Ward's version and to add insult to injury make it more worse? Because Ward or his buddy's at GW wanted it thisway.

And Ward is to blame for enabling this to happen by writing down the story in the first place.

>>48599860
Shit it was the 5th Ed codex, I just conflate ward GK cheese with 6th Ed psychic tables and power weapon nerfing that sent them into overdrive.

The thing is though, the original fluff doesn't actually have a timespan of how that happened at all - sure you could read into it he kicked his arse Goku-vs-Freiza style within minutes of Geronitan being killed but it could have just as easily been his first major decision and action as Supreme GKGM.

I'm not saying the fluff about Draigo in the 5th Ed was good - in fact, I find it was shit all round for the entire codex (sisters as hats is the other more loathsome piece) and I enjoy the 7th ed stories and fluff much more.

>>48599860
So what, you love Ward anyway for giving you Newcrons. Unless you're still pretending you hate them now.

Whether you're optimistic or not, I think we can all agree that the next year of watching 40k go down the same path that Fantasy did before being killed off is going to be very entertaining.

I always felt like the game would have been pretty good if Ward redesigned all
The races from the ground up at the same time. The races he wrote were fun to play, but there was a huge power gap as each Ward race was designed to feel powerful and sell while other races felt like weak splat books.

>>48599915
I thought I made clear that I would have preferred if they stayed Oldcrons. The Newcrons have good points, which are mostly stolen themes from the Tomb Kings, but they are overshadowed by the shitty wackiness and them being written as being too human instead of the near-emotionless horrors they are suppose to be.

>>48599956
If only there were some way to take what you liked from the new fluff, while disregarding that which you thought was shitty.

>>48600484
I headcanon my Necrons to be a mix of Oldcrons and Newcrons. However, this doesn't mean I don't get to criticize the fluff.

>>48599772
That's literally the only way that I would get back into 40k. As it stands, I simply can't accept the starting up cost of buying all the new rulebooks and codex books I would need, especially with the ridiculous bloated rule that now every battle seems bogged down with planes, super heavies, giant MCs, etc.

Give me a set of free rules that are half a dozen pages long, and an army data sheet that's a dozen pages, all for free, and i might actually consider playing again with my old ultrasmurfs

>>48598769
The game was already dead, ever heard of age of sigmar?

AoS happened because fantasy was selling less than paint, PAINT!

>>48600531
I don't know why you'd even waste your time playing if the rules are as bad as AoS.

>>48600601
Why are the rules bad?

>>48601005
Poorly written with no consistency throughout and incredibly shallow despite zillions of special rules.

>>48589346
The man's okay. Geedubs has proven more than capable of fucking up royally by their own hand. His worst contributions are a symptom of the whole company, I'd say.

>>48601050
It's 4 pages long, I don't see the inconsistency really.

And how is it shallow? Like what do you mean?

>>48589346
I know nothing about the controversy surrounding this guy... But as someone that tried to get back into 40k and was turned off by all the shit writing in the Tau Codex, I can say with some confidence that he is not a talented man.

>>48589346
He might just make AoS better.

>>48589346
Place your bets.

I'll place mine on the orks.
They'll get the insane matt buff this time.

>>48589346
Matt leaving didn't stop the fluff getting super retarded and full of shit names like Stormron Wolfhand or Blood Bloodman.

His Necron codex was amazing in terms of game mechanics and brought crons back from obscurity. His 40k rules were all well recieved.

I really don't think Matt coming back will make the fluff worse, but might make the rules better.

Who cares about fluff. Honestly. Fucking nerds.

>>48601972
People less of an asshole than you.

>>48601972
Most people who play the game. It's not like people play warhammer for the amazing rule systems or the unbelievable models. They play them because the grim dark universe with aliens and a Gothic colossal humanity with super soldiers in power armor is cool.

>Posting on /the/
>Calling people nerds
Come on dude.

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>>48589346
He brought back pic related from the depths of hell, so I trust him to keep 40k lighthearted enough for my tastes.

>>48589712

Hey, the innistrad block was cool, nice resolution, decent cards.

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>>48602081
>>48601972

WHERE ARE THE NERDS SHOW THEM TO ME SO I MAY WEDGY THEM!!!!!!

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>>48598944
You can make literally any setting EVER sound bad and designed for insecure manchildren if you simplify and generalize it as much as you did.
40k is not Rogue Trader anymore and you should stop having bitchfits everytime somebody doesn't take it as such. You are basically showing your views of 40k down everybody's throat and bitching why doesn't everyone agree with you. And then be so narcissistic you call other people manchildren.

>>48602272
This.

Name something that you do consider "deep and serious literature" and i can make it sound childish and retarded too

>>48602394
Not him, but do Catch-22.

I hope he writes a new BA dex.

Is the newcron fluff really so bad?

I didnt pick the game up until the 7th ed and I started with them, and the fluff seems decent enough, and at least more enjoyable than mysterious, killer skele-robots with (yet more) demigods controlling them.

Crunch-wise the decurion was bad for a while, but it's been put in it's place several times since then.

>>48598673
>Star Wars
>setting of its own right
It's a dumb mess that worked very well for the OT because its internal logic was set up to justify exactly that story and morals, and the moment you take a turn towards prequels or EU or Rei Wars it's fucking bollocks. It has a couple of handfuls of good games to its name, admittedly, but those aren't good because they're doing something uniquely Star Wars, they're good because they're well-designed games, and I'm not talking about KotOR's D&D corridor combat.
That said, >>48598643
is stupid for a whole other reason: it just assumes that the same people say all those things. It's like assuming that the moment you see someone /pol/-posting, he thinks the exact same thing as a couple of other /pol/ posters, and you can use their arguments as an argumentative tool against him. That's just not the case. There're no "you Warhammer fans" in this case, there're the Warhammer fans who say this, and the Warhammer fans who say that, and the only intelligent thing to do is talk to one at a time and not assume they're a homogeneous group with homogeneous opinions outside of liking 40K.

>>48602422
Just a lousy book for edgy tweens who dont see the importance of sacrifice for causes greater than themselves, and who view the world through overly-simple binary mindsets like "damned if you do, damned if you dont"

>>48598944
Yes, it's a setting in its own right. Doesn't change the fact that it's a goofy, stupid mess, and you're a fucking idiot for taking it seriously.

This is a setting where wood-crawlers with elvish-wannabe cloaks spend their days cutting goblins in half. But you're such an insecure manchild that you can't just enjoy the absurdity of that idea on its own, and have to ~justify~ it so that no-one will think you're dumb for liking it. Protip: no-one thinks you're dumb for liking Lord of the rings. We think you're dumb for insisting it's Deep and Serious Literature.

>>48602528
One was about magic transhumanism creating endless armies of Terminators, the other is about a bunch of whimsical space liches. Sure, it's easier to self-insert as space liches, but you're playing a tabletop wargame, not D&D. And if you're a lich in D&D then you're a powerwanking shitter anyway.
>>48602549
No, that just makes it sound like you haven't read the book.

>>48602528
The Newcron fluff was pretty great other than making the Newcrons use broken pieces of the webway. Their FTL was too powerful in old lore but now it's too weak.

>>48598944
Yes, it's a setting in its own right. Doesn't change the fact that it's a goofy, stupid mess, and you're a fucking idiot for taking it seriously.

This is a setting where magical space-knights with non-sensical swords spend their days duelling other magical space-knights. But you're such an insecure manchild that you can't just enjoy the absurdity of that idea on its own, and have to ~justify~ it so that no-one will think you're dumb for liking it. Protip: no-one thinks you're dumb for liking Star Wars. We think you're dumb for insisting it's Deep and Serious Literature.

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Just a quick reminder

>>48600542
You are a retard. Before 7th edition Fantasy was outselling 40k.

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>>48589346
>dat pic

I don't think I've ever seen a pic of MW where he's not dripping grease and breathing through his mouth, but this selfie isn't bad at all. Good on yer mate!

I guess we'll see if he's cleaned-up his act in other areas soon enough ...

Relax. End of Times could easily last hundreds, if not thousands of years.

>>48602119

Are you retarded?

In case you aren't: Wizards of the Coast does Magic and D&D, Games Workshop does Warhammer.

Wait, why are people acting as if 40K is hitting End Times? Did I miss something?

>>48590246
I need a team of experts to decipher this, be right back.

>>48604531

Slaanesh is about to get killed.

>>48604531
Because the game is hemmorhaging players at an alarming rate, GW has decided to try something big (hopefully accompanied by a rules + balance overhaul) to stop the bleeding.

Funny thing is, their solution is about a year away. By that time, many people will have been gone for a year or two. Winning them all back is going to take quite a lot.

The playerbase here in Phoenix, AZ (metro area is ~6 million people) - has pretty much disappeared. A year ago you could easily get a pick up game in 3 different stores in the city. Now you cant get a pick up game, except possibly at the GW. But that has become 90% Age of Sigmar, so even thats a slim chance.

Only time you even see 40k is for the ITC tournaments one of the flgs' holds every 2 months or so. And thats one day, attracts 10-20 people, and is straight up cancer.

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>>48589346

So it was spoken in the days of old, that which is unmade by his hand will be reforged, into an image of the splendor of yore.

All is as it was written. A beast of a man with a mighty blade rises upon the tides of this world.

This man will either destroy Warhammer Fantasy from the death knell of Age of Sigmar, or save it.

I just want Cruddace to die.

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The king is back, baby!

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>>48598643
>>48599304

>people who think people "taking the game too seriously" are actually contesting the unlikelihood of a physical representation of something fictional beating another physical representation of something fictional from a story-driven perspective, and are actually not critiquing game design

Rhana Dandra aint happening

It's literally impossible

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Literally autistic person here.

Y'all motherfuckers autistic.

>>48593988
Obligatory post
https://youtu.be/MtDVaBtWha0?t=1m20s

>>48604882
>berating fictional man beating fictional demon stories for being unbelievable is critiquing game design
fluff has nothing to do with the game, though

>>48603432
This.
The change in aesthetic and the departure from the traditionally 'restrained' look of a lot of Fantasy armies, on top of the total lack of marketing, insane price gouges, high cost-of-entry, etc isolated a lot of the Wargaming crowd who liked the historical and interesting look of the troops. Starting a 500pt Empire army in 7th cost upwards of $300.

8th further tweaked or, tried to sell more minis, but it wasn't really working.

That, and LOTR/Hobbit dividing the fantasy market further(It's an excellent game and what AoS should have been) completely crushed WHFB.

That said, Age of Sigmar was still a huge mistake, but it IS selling well. Prepare your anuses, 40k people: the end times cometh.

>>48605198
>Prepare your anuses, 40k people: the end times cometh.

After the Black Templar retcon nothing can shock me and I play 30k so who gives a shit.

>>48605242
Fluff is not important. The entire look of the range will be radically altered, the rules gutted to 4 pages, and old minis permanently discontinued.

That said, there are always chinamen selling cheap recasts

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>>48604799
The Return of the King

>>48589346
It's clear now his fluff and rules was a symptom of the problem, and not the cause of it.
I'm entirely indifferent to his return

>>48596838
>I never thought I'd see the day when enough time had past where Matt Ward's failures would be forgotten
Ward's had fans on /tg/ since around.... just after Newcrons, I think. By the time he left it felt like /tg/ was pretty much 50-50 on whether he was the antichrist or a pretty cool dude.

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>>48606315
There were more or less always at least SOME people who defended him.
I should know, I was one of them.

>>48606546
Keep fighting the good fight, brother

>>48589346
He looks like Mark Hammil for some reason

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Too busy feeling good from muh 7th Edition Codex, although at this point I'd take Matt Ward over Gav Thorpe. Gav Thorpe needs to stop butchering my Angels and fuck off- even Ward never stooped to Doctor Who Time Travel tier fluff.

Latin linguist here
The plural of codex is codices, stop trying to sound smart by slapping an i on Latin words to create the plural form, it's only correct for words a single declination and Latin has about half a dozen

>>48609624
Don't be ridiculous, there is no Latin in 40k, only gold-pressed Latinum!