/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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>>48485623
I used pic related as inspiration for a Rank 1 Gulmoth my Mage players were investigating
It's a Ghoul from The Void/Chthonian Stars

Need some help with a custom covenant for a Vampire game. There are seven covenants in the city and most are more or less reskinned versions of existing covenants. The problem I'm having is a group I've called The Midnight Consortium, a group of ancient traders who formed within the East India Company in the 1800's and are now a Hong Kong based group of vampiric businessmen.

My issue is I have no idea what to do for their faction benefits.

So why can't guns do shit in World of Darkness?

Since your damage is based off your fucking successes you can be shitty and shooting and end up needing like 5 shots to kill someone. That is completely unrealistic. Usually it only takes 1 or 2 bullets to take someone down. Using those examples of "lol guy got shot 19 times and lived" does not excuse the fact that most times someone gets shot, they go the fuck down, hard, and World of Darkness' shitty combat system can't even run that properly, despite the fact that literally 90% of other RPG systems handle this. I can understand PCs taking a few bullets, but random NPCs? Fuck that. World of Darkness guns are completely broken, probably so that VtM fanboys can wank to getting shot with a .45 and ignoring it, despite the fact that the same thing could happen to granny down the street, assuming the guy is untrained with the gun. That's not how guns work. Your skill doesn't affect the fucking damage you do. Your skill does not affect the velocity of the bullet. Shot placement, sure, but you are not going to shoot the arms and legs over and over just because "lol I can't aim"

I mean WoD isn't exactly a fantastic system anyway, but this is a massive glaring error and I can't believe the devs haven't fixed it yet. Probably too busy adding "safe space" language to their rulebooks.

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>>48485888

Give them the 2 Dot version of the Luxury Merit from Seers of the Throne?

>>48485974
That looks pretty good, but I don't know the first thing about balance. How does a free merit compare to Invictus Oaths or the ability to buy Coils?

>>48485970

That's the old rules.
Now if you hit, your gun deals its full damage rating in success without rolling.

>Implying this isn't bait.

>>48485970
>Probably too busy adding "safe space" language to their rulebooks

Aw, that's too bad. You had a legitimate complaint that I could have addressed, but you ruined it at the end with your pointless bitching about shit that doesn't matter, so you get nothing.

>>48485974

> not using full justification

Not only can White Wolf not design rules for shit, they also can't even format a fucking rulebook properly. Disgusting.

>>48486007
Is this for 1E or 2E?

When's Deviant?

>>48485970
Aren't guns pretty nasty? Dex+Firearms with a weapon bonus. Ignores defenses. You can do shit like aim at a target or full auto for extra dice. Some guns have fun things like a shotgun giving 9 again.

>>48486021
Fuck off, Aspel.

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>>48485623
>What was the last image that inspired a WoD Game?

Pic related, I based my newest Requiem character off of him. A Daeva mobster with the Invictus.

>>48486002

The Merit is probably on the weak side, compared to the other benefits, since its benefits are more fluff than crunch. But clever players can certainly translate this to powerful advantage in social situations, if you as the ST give them the opportunity.

>>48486088
Alright, thanks for the help.

>>48486042

This is post God Machine rules update, so included in all of 2e

>>48486056
>>48486032
>>48485970

Look at this Try-hard troll.

Keep it up, I am enjoying myself.

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>>48486113
Well in Dark Era they introduce a new covenant called Weihan Cynn. They are all about allies and contacts. You may want to look into them.
Here is there merit.

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>>48486180

>>48486164
Aspel, you realize you're the second-most hated anon in these threads? You're right next to Carmilla when it comes to the low opinion of the anons on this thread.

>>48486086
His Vice was Gluttony (we're still using the 1e rules for now but intend to upgrade to 2e soon) and he met a similar fate as the character that inspired him (gunned down in a drive-by until he was knocked into torpor).

>>48486202
But I'm not Aspel.
His writings style is very different from mine. If you even bothered to read you would have seen that.

>>48486240
You were complaining about the poster not liking WW's choice of putting "safe space" language in their books, which would indicate you're an SJW.

Aspel is infamous for being an annoying SJW. So, I naturally assumed. My bad.

>>48486048
20 years from now

>>48486255
I never posted on that.
I informed someone about a covenant he could take some merits and ideas from. I think yoy may have clicked the wrong post bruh.

>>48485623
>What is the last image that really inspired your WoD game?

Gay_werewolves.jpg

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To answer OP, even though I haven't done anything yet.

>>48485970
That's 1e rules. Guns were also pretty deadly in 1e, where it was easy to get some 20 dice and Armour Piercing and 8-Again. In 2e they're even more instant death lasers.
>Probably too busy adding "safe space" language to their rulebooks.
Abloobloo

>>48486056
>>48486202
>>48486255
I was asleep, you idiot. More than one person thinks that kind of shit is asinine and baity.
I'm "infamous" for it, sure, but I'm far from the only one who'd point out how childishly bitchy it is to complain about the SJW boogeyman.

>>48486048
We should be getting a subtitle at Gencon.

>>48486401
God that movie looks like shit.

>>48486021

Not him, but curious if you really have a good 'hack' to gun rules.

I haven't had many issues with the 2e rules so far, but the game has had very few fire fights since the players are being paranoid level overly prepped Mages.

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>>48485623
I've had my first session of my Watch_Dogs cronicle. It went relatively well. My Beast player also decided to not play a beast and is instead going to play a mage.

>>48486426
It looks awesome. I love movies that are "bunch of quirky criminals doing something". Like Smokin' Aces. Or even heists like Ocean's Eleven and Mistborn.
Admittedly I'm probably most excited about it because I loved the last Suicide Squad movie, and I just like the concept of the Suicide Squad.
https://youtu.be/-EuwFw-7ke0

It's a set up where its hard to fuck it up. Things are going to go boom boom bang bang and outlandishly quirky characters makes it easy to have interesting interactions, to the point that I don't even mind that Captain Boomerang looks like a soccer hooligan or something.

>>48486458
>My Beast player also decided to not play a beast and is instead going to play a mage.
That honestly seems worse. Did they go Forces?

>>48486401

SJW-ism is an insidious cult like group mentality poisoning true socially progressive groups to the core, and hurting their message.
But that doesn't mean that we have to take the obvious bait from the troll, when it's clear that his accusations are baseless.

There is a total of one sidebar in Mage 2e that could be described as adding "safe space" and all that it says is that if you see yourself as a male or female, then your Astral projection will reflect that.
I found it pretty obvious, but I guess they decided to preemptively squash the issue.

>>48486683
>SJW-ism is an insidious cult like group mentality poisoning true socially progressive groups to the core, and hurting their message.
Anon, did you know there is actually a board on this site where you can complain about the boogeyman? If you want to talk about scary things under your bed, you could go to >>>/x/

(As an aside, that's not a sidebar, and it only offhandedly mentions gender; it's essentially the Matrix thing where you look like you think you should look; there is a sidebar that says mages can confirm that people are trans, but I've never thought of "things we can already prove with actual real world psychology and science" as being somehow "safe space")

>>48485970
>Since your damage is based off your fucking successes you can be shitty and shooting and end up needing like 5 shots to kill someone. That is completely unrealistic.
t. someone who has never shot a gun

You need to dispell a relinquished spell (safe or unsafe) right? You can't just cancel it.

>>48487415

Right, but I think you get a bonus to dispel your own spells.

>>48486551
Na he's going Moros mage, and plans to become a Forge Master.

Also I think its better because it's mostly a mage/demon crossover.

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>>48485828

I used this for a Gulmoth

>>48488099
This puts me to shame.

>>48486814

You clearly haven't shot a gun either. It's not that fucking hard. I'm sorry you have parkinsons disease.

>>48488457
>Trained cops and soldiers still miss, but I'm a tactical basement dweller and I know I can hit a fly guns akimbo.

>>48486426
I dunno. It looks like the first DC film to actually look fun.

>>48488704
After one of the trailers had jokes and they were well received, they actually went back and did reshoots to add more comedy and fun to the movie. Also, probably because Deadpool did so well.
https://youtu.be/CmRih_VtVAs
I think it was this one. The movie with two clown themed villains apparently wasn't actually that funny. So here's hoping those scenes are integrated well (and its important to keep in mind that reshoots isn't exactly uncommon).

>>48486814

It's the same person who went in to complain about this last time: they don't actually know how guns work and they don't want to be bothered to research how the new rules work. They watched too many action movies and they got mad that it didn't work that way in a tabletop game.

Hey, you oWoD shits:
https://www.humblebundle.com/books/vampire-masquerade-rpg-bundle

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>>48488773

It feels that Will Smith is slumming, in that it seems rather weird to have such a recognizable star in this, but I guess lately his movies sucked.

Harley Quinn is the star of the show though. Without her character this movie wouldn't be half as good.

>>48488243
But that's why we share.

>>48489206
Isn't Will Smith stalking the girl who plays Harley?

>>48489206
>It feels that Will Smith is slumming, in that it seems rather weird to have such a recognizable star in this, but I guess lately his movies sucked.
>Harley Quinn is the star of the show though
Yeah, it feels really weird. I think it was originally supposed to be one of those "formerly famous person too old for a role plays it anyway" things, like Ghost Rider, but after the early trailers everyone liked Harley better so they focused on her instead of Will Smith.

>>48489232
A quick Google of that finds nothing, but she did insult him during their last movie. And also slapped Leonardo DiCaprio
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Margot-Robbie-Told-Off-Smith-During-Her-Focus-Audition-70083.html

Is tass useless to any Mage that doesn't know how to channel mana?

Can a living/nonliving/ephemeral/supernatural being be filled with tass?

>>48488856

On the same note, the very first Vampire: the Masquerade anthology had a quiet re-release in May, apparently. It is also the first new WoD/CofD product to appear on Amazon: https://amzn.com/B01G7GP96U

>>48489448
>Is tass useless to any Mage that doesn't know how to channel mana?

Not if it gathers in something edible.
Many mages plant fruit trees in a hollow.

It could definately collect in a corpse, I would say no for the other 3.

>>48489485
Ok, I guess I'll barter all non edibles I find until I get points in Prime since nobody rolled an Obrimos.

>>48489448
>>48489485
Tass just has to be physical and an object. It can collect in stable patterns, like ones you'd affect with Matter, but not shifting patterns, like ones you'd affect with Life. Vampires are dead, but shifting. You might be able to make a corpse into tass and then have it zombie around with Death, but I don't think that leaving a zombie in a hallow would produce tass.

Signs of Sorcery may expand the definition and manifestations of tass, especially given that they've spoiled the existence of Imbued Creatures, so you could give them a mana capacity of some sort.

>>48489448
It's money.
Or, more accurately, it's like cigarettes in prison.

>>48489587
>they've spoiled the existence of Imbued Creatures
Oh? Do tell.

>>48489602
http://theonyxpath.com/signs-of-sorcery-mage-the-awakening-open-development/

>Chapter Three: The Crafter’s Trade
>The chapter then expands on the rules for Imbued Items, including spells allowing mages who don’t yet have Prime 4 to store spells temporarily in items as “charges”, spells to allow mages to Imbue living beings, spells that alter how relinquishing spell control works and cursed items (a fan-favourite topic in Tome of the Mysteries.)
>spells to allow mages to Imbue living beings

The book is being toted as Advanced Mage 2e, so we probably won't see it until 2020.

>>48489602
>It's money.

Emphasis on this. Scarcity is important for a tabletop game to create drama and tension. This is especially important for a game like Mage where players can literally pull bags of money out of thin air or build tanks out of congealed dreams.

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Stat me.

>>48484454
I hate that Lucifer is just ANOTHER GODDAMN PROCEDURAL.

Since when was doing a Humble Bundle part of the Paradox master plan?

>>48490875

Bundle of Holdings are pretty good ways of getting your brand out, if nothing else. I was tempted to get the Torg bundle a while back, and that game is nowhere even near my playstyle when it comes to its rules.

>>48488856
New to vampire here, should I start with it? Quite cheap to me

>>48491237

If you're interested in Vampire the Masquerade or just want an absolute shit ton of reading, give it a shot. It's VtM Revised, which is the most recent edition aside from 20th Anniversary, which is apparently also on sale on DriveThru right now.

If nothing else, dropping eight bucks for The Book of Nod is a really good deal.

>>48491237
The rules and mechanics are convoluted, there's a lot of reading and it's not the most up to date stuff. If you don't mind reading and shitty rules, go for it, it's fun and more interesting than VtR.

>>48489865
[Owlbear]

>>48489692
This is also why the cigarettes-in-prison analogy is useful. It's not just currency, its currency that you can burn for power. Its an old school barter system where the exchanged good represents an actual use, as opposed to fiat.

>>48491237
>New to vampire here, should I start with it?
I'm going to be completely and 100% unbiased and reasonable here and say no, you should buy Vampire: the Requiem Second Edition.
>Quite cheap to me
Eh. I'll admit I want the pins, but the books themselves aren't great. I'm clearly not a big fan of oWoD, though.

Each form of Mage armor costs a point of mana per scene. You can switch between Mage armors as a reflex action for one mana.

Can you take a bit more time and switch between armors as an instant action for no mana?

>>48492429
As a houserule, sure
There's no official word either way, though

I'm going to be running a campaign for some people new to RPGs, and I was considering CofD so they don't get into a D&D rut.

Which games line would people suggest? I was thinking perhaps Changeling, as I would say out of all the splats they have a mentality closest to actual people. Well, bar Hunter... Most of the time.

>>48492545

I believe Werewolf is the most forgiving for the average D&D player e.g. murder-hobos.

>>48492429
>>48492539
It sounds fair to me assuming you already spent the mana to activate it for that scene. Of course you join the Seers and do it for free :-3

>>48492545
Core. Maybe with some Hunter stuff, since having a Compact or Conspiracy that they're part of can really help facilitate things if they're unsure of what to do. But something simple is always the best place to start.

Changeling's mentality is also the most changed. Plus, 2e isn't out yet, and you're missing a lot of the stuff that would make it work (or at least *I* want stuff about the Hedge). The lack of a pretty, laid out corebook is also a bit of a deterrent, and if you want to introduce people to WoD, it'd be better to start with 2e stuff instead of using 1e, which might confuse them if you ever play something new. That said, I will bet that if they get involved with it, the collaborative pre-game City Creation is something that might be a great way of making them want to play.
Having players interested in playing is always the hardest part of teaching newbies (aside from getting them to read, which even veterans rarely want to do)

>>48492589
I'd say Vampire is easiest to grok of the big three. He's trying to *keep* them from being D&D losers. Werewolf does need some love, though. 2e is really good, but while its not as hard as Mage, they do have a lot of societal stuff to wrap your head around.

>>48492689
I think the society and political aspects of werewolf 2e is fine or at least thematically consistent for the splat.

Finding a balance between thinking and reasoning your problems out vs murder-fucking them away.

>>48491237
If you're interested in Masquerade, it's the best deal you're going to get short of pirating everything. Plus if these PDFs are updated to OEF, with searchability and stuff then it's a gold mine. Also, wow, they have a copy of the new MET book in there too. And the pins looks nice.

>>48492836
It's not that it's thematically inconsistent, it's that it's confusing and strange, as befitting Spirits. Really its less the politicking and more the fact that Werewolf society is alien in a lot of ways.

So what are the biggest changes to each arcanum? A friend of mine asked and I'd rather not dig through both books without knowing where to look first.

>>48493621
The enumerated list IS the book.
Anything specific or do they just want to play the best path? It's still Acanthus.

>>48493691
Mostly its what could an arcanum do in 1e that it cant do in 2e, or what new things can it do in 2e that it couldnt in 1e

>>48493691
>Acanthus
They don't have Mind or Space though

>>48493778
They do with legacies, but Time and Fate carry you a lot smoother through the early game, covering combat, investigation and socializing. Fate •• has a spell that gives you merits for a its duration and those can cleave through a lot of challenges.

>>48493763
Biggest change is that you can get merits from spells, but they don't follow the Sanctity of Merits rule.

Fuck, I just reread Midnight Roads and forgot how good it is. I really hope they update it for 2E. Has anyone ever done a campaign on the road and if so how did it go?

Has anyone here ever played Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom? What was it like?

I hear that it's actually really well written and researched and not in like with oWOD's weird culture fetishization and strange racism which is a good start

I'm making an Unchained Demon, concept based around being sneaky.
I, however, want the Teleportation Demonic form ability. Does anyone have any idea on how to re-fluff that one so it isn't brightly glowing?

>>48494887
Instead of "energy teleport with glowing lines" go "body folds in upon itself into non-existence, then unfolds at the target".

More disturbing, but not glowy.

>>48494946
Yeah. I thought something like that too, but the problem is: How do I style the module for it?

>>48494732

The new bloodlines are cool but it kinda does the Wraith thing of treating the entire continent like tribal bushland

>>48495040
>the Wraith thing of treating the entire continent like tribal bushland
That's more like "the oWoD thing". Or, really, most games.

>>48486794

I like how he was calling the other person a fag for projecting stuff like that but because you can't read you tried to call him a fag and ended up looking like an even bigger fag than the fag he called a fag.

Here's your (You) I guess.

>>48488570

>[furious yet masturbatory words]

>>48485623
Hiya everyone. I've decided to run a VtM Anarch game. It's going to be set in Nashville and they coterie are going to be infiltrating the Sabbat to prevent those fuckers from taking over the area. Any ideas, tips or musical selections you might want to throw my way would be much appreciated.

>>48495237
He was literally expressing the opinion that SJW is some kind of spooky shadow cult. If people are afraid of the SJW boogeyman, they can go to the board for talking about boogeymen. It's as simple as that.

Why is M20 so bad /tg/?

>>48495430
Because it's Ascension.

Someone at one point mentioned this as a Demon like song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sskFjbHu_W0 I think I'm going to try to make a character based on it.

Where did Beckett first appear?

>>48486048
I got oddly excited for it playing inside. Giant empty factories full of faceless men and women with uncanny beings walking out.

>>48496120
>[Embed]
Well duh.

>>48495271
Here's one: play VtR instead

>>48495430

I really liked it and I normally loathe Ascension. Can't speak for the mechanics though.

>>48496474
you're a worthless nigger.

https://youtu.be/cddLDL_kKOU

John Constantine is a WoD character

>>48496996
I have referenced that multiple times.
Hes a Fate mage easy. Probably a member of the Free Council. Some spots in spirit to put across him being haunted.

is errata'd Mage 2e pdf out yet?

>>48497075
>I have referenced that multiple times.
So has Dave. And the book itself.
But I wanted an excuse to link that.

>>48497283
Not yet.

If Death is the Arcana of Change, Transition and Stasis can you somehow use it as a way to find what someone'd particular hangup is? Like you want to know what's keeping him in this same grueling job for years or what's keeping someone from asking his girlfriend from marrying him or what's keeping a widow/er from finding new love.

>>48497486

That's all Mind.

>>48497507
but that's not mind reading. You are looking for abstract things that the target may not even know about.

>>48497562

You would find all of that inside his Oneiros, and likely represented with goetia. The things he doesn't know about himself still all exist there, at least in symbolic form.

Whats the difference between hunter and core anyway. Every time I run a mortals game it just either turns into hunter most of the time or they friendly up to a monster and all try to get themselves turned

>>48497486
Death (in MtAw) is none of those things.
It is Death, breakdown, decay and entropy.

>>48497669
Core is normal people.
Hunter is humans and humans+ who with balls of Steel and more than a little Willpower Hunt down threats to mankind, for whatever reason.

>>48497669
Core is Scooby-Doo, Hunter is Buffy Scoobies.

>>48497673
Umm did you even read the book? Death is the Arcana of Change and Stasis.

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Anyone have a guide to understanding Mage 2e?

>>48497562
>Like you want to know what's keeping him in this same grueling job for years or what's keeping someone from asking his girlfriend from marrying him or what's keeping a widow/er from finding new love.
That's mind reading. Those are all mental things. Just because someone doesn't particularly realize themselves that they're afraid of commitment or hung up on the past doesn't mean that it's not part of their mind.

>>48497771
>>48497690
>>48497669
Hunter is in a rather awkward place in that generally speaking there's nothing truly different about a mortal and a Hunter. Ostensibly a Hunter is someone who has taken up the Vigil and Hunts, but that's not even necessarily true. I've talked previously about how several Hunter groups don't really take up "The Vigil", and others barely even Hunt. Nothing stops normal non-templated characters from doing the same sorts of things, and nothing stops, say, Second Sight characters from getting up to what Hunters do from a Mortal perspective.
Mechanically, Hunter has a bit of rules baggage that other things have already been plundering: The ability to use Tactics is something Werewolves have as well, and the Professional Training system (where Hunters draw on knowledge of their Profession in a way that normal mortals can't, for some reason) is something thrown into Core.

>>48498442
Ask your questions. What don't you understand? The best guide would probably be the book itself.

>>48497912
I did.
Death's purview specifically is "Darkness, decay, ectoplasm, ghosts, the Underworld, souls, cold, absence, enervation, endings."

I see no reference to "change" and "stasis" on that lost.

>>48498801
I have a hard time beleiving those are mental.

Does time cover metaphorical concepts of time?

>>48499402
Such as?

>>48499409
The town and its people hadn't changed in 10 years since the disaster its like time stood still.

>>48499436
You mean like groundhog day? Or the towns culture and attitude literally have not changed a day?

>>48499436
So what? Their Temporal Sympathy to the past will be strong as the town is mostly unchanged, but how are you applying Time there?

What are you Ruling? Weaving? Unmaking?

Think of Magic in terms of the Practices, it's easier that way.

>>48499348

Mind doesn't only deal with the brain.
Thoughts, concepts, ideas, consciousness, subconsciousness, rationality, perception, and decisions all fall under its purview.

>>48497912

You are kind of right. It does indeed deal with change and stasis, but only as it relates to
>>48499023
>"Darkness, decay, ectoplasm, ghosts, the Underworld, souls, cold, absence, enervation, endings."

For example, a Death spell could be used to keep something from decaying - a 'stasis' of the natural entropic process.

But it certainly doesn't include all change and stasis.

I mean what spell effect wouldn't fall under "changing something or preventing something from being changed"?

>>48499436

This would be Mind and Fate (when you are casting it 10 years ago)

Mind to keep people thinking and behaving in much the same patterns as they did during the disaster, Fate to keep any radical changes from happening to the town, like major construction projects that radically alter the 'character' of the town.

Time would be used if you copy-pasted the town from back then to the present, trapped it in a loop, or deleted the intervening events.

>>48499664
You could also just strengthen the town's Temporal Sympathy to that past time, which would make everyone act more like back then.

Which is MUCH simpler.

Is there a Death spell that simulates cryostasis?

>>48499679

You are totally right, my bad.

>>48499690
No, but you can freeze yourself by draining all the heat from your body.
Humans aren't made to hibernate, to do so properly you'd need Life.
Or just use Time to massively slow your clock to almost stopping.

>>48499690

I think cryostasis is totally a Death spell effect - cold and preventing decay.

>>48499711

Remember, multiple Arcana can do the same thing.

>>48498801
What do you roll to cast a spell? There's an entire chapter on modifiers but I can't find the base dicepool anywhere.

So what path is better to deal with themes of Change and Stagnation both literal and symbolic? Moros or Acanthus?

>>48499729
>Remember, multiple Arcana can do the same thing
They can, but I was interpreting Cryostasis as "freezing someone in such a way as that they survive", not "freeze someone solid, then use Magic to ensure that they wouldn't die from the otherwise horribly lethal exposure"

>>48499737
Gnosis + Highest Arcanum used in spell

>>48499742
Change and Stasis are concepts which can be applied to all paths, and almost all practices. You have to say what KIND of change/stasis you want, then fold that into the existing Practices and Purviews.

>>48499743

I would also argue that you could do it with a forces spell, literally slowing down the vibrational energy of the body, while preventing the ice crystals from forming.

Then upon revival, thaw them and give them a seizure to get those neurons firing again.

This would be the HARD way of doing it dots wise, but still possible.

>>48499742

Moros for the literal, but the 'change' is more like the renewal of new growth after a forest fire.

Acanthus for more of the symbolic side.

Once again, Mastigos perfectly covers change and stagnation in ideologies and behaviors.

>>48499778
Thing is, that's death.
You're bringing them back from death.
Even though that makes sense as being possible through the use of Forces.
They've still died.
Which means their Soul has loosed its fleshy bonds and departed from this world.

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Mage makes a girl hibernate for years and study the effects.

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>>48499825

I feel this could make for an interesting story.

>>48499853
Pic unrelated.

>>48499853
Indeed.

Well meaning Obrimos tries to save a few individuals from death through use of his Magic.
He saves their lives, but watches in horror as they start going mad with grief and a loss of identity.

He needs your help to find them new souls. Or perhaps he's trying to hunt down Reapers to find a "free" soul. Or perhaps he goes full "chooser of the slain" and hunts down the unworthy to transfer their souls to the poor innocents, himself wracked with grief.

Situation is only made worse when he realizes their deaths were so traumatic they created powerful Ghosts. Now these living beings tormented by their lack of a Soul are being haunted by their own Ghosts.

>>48499825

So does
>Ghost + Soul + Body (functionally alive) = Back for Good?
If so, how many dots of death do you need to glue it back together?

Anyone think infamous mentor is pretty steep considering you need equal dots in mentor?

>>48500013
You need a soul, a living body, and Death 2 (with 3 reach and 1 Mana).
The Ghost is irrelevant, in fact Ghosts are mostly likely mere imperfect reflections of dead people. Fully sentient, but not the dead person in a new form, an entirely new and ephemeral being.

>>48500073
You do.

>>48500042
For 6 dots of merits, you get a 3 dot Mentor, roughly 3 dots of influence in both Consilium and Order Status, as well as 6 further dots of Social Merits to borrow.

Which is a 2:1 ratio.
Which only gets better if you take a lower rating in Infamous Mentor, because you already always have access to their Consilium and Order Status merits.

Say you have a Rating 5 Mentor, and Infamous Mentor 1.
Sure you've only got 2 Social Merits of his to call upon, but you've likely got a highly influential, knowledgeable, and reputable mentor's influence to call upon when you really need it.
As well as all the benefits of a highly involved (and powerful) Mentor in the first place.

>>48500067

So if I keep yanking the soul out, killing the guy (without hurting the body) and then reviving him, I can create a horde of identical ghosts?

Now I have a plan to condition myself, so that I firmly believe that when I become a ghost I will help my living self.

Nothing can possibly go wrong.

>>48500123
What if your infamous mentor doesnt really do consilium/order things anymore. He was well respected before he went soul searching.

>>48500137
Uncertain. Possibly.
I wouldn't expect to live long.
Or rather, stay sane long.

Repeatedly murdering someone and ripping out his soul, only to stick him back together, for the sole purpose of harvesting Ghosts is one of the more egregious breaches of Wisdom I've ever heard of.

You'd be rolling 1 die to avoid degeneration.

>>48500170
Then his influence (and thus dot rating) will be low.

"So you're Blargledargleflarge's student? He's a great Mage, and I can respect what you've learned under him, but where the hell is he?!"

How open are you alternate interpretation of supernatural phenomena among Mages. Like Mages perceiving the same ghost/spirit differently through their Mage Sight?

>>48500193
Which rating? The Mentor or Infamous Mentor?

>>48500203
Both, the former is saying how powerful and relevant he is.

The second is a representation of both your intent to borrow his reputation, and to what extent you can use his contact network.

>>48500196
Slightly different works, but Mage sight is fundamentally viewing the Supernal reflection of the World as the Supernal World. The differences can't be so significant as to deny the objective truth they provide.

>>48500232
Purely cosmetic not difference in nature.

>>48500196
>>48500272

The Mage is definitely going to see different things if he is using a different Arcanum for the Mage Sight, but none of it is going to be contradictory information.

What do I need to do to update Legacies to Mage 2e?

Can I just use the old 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Attainments as the 2, 3, and 4 dot ones, and simply come up with the 1 dot one?

>>48500385
You'd also need a 5-dot one, m8
It also generally doesn't work quite the same; you might be able to use the same concept, but spells don't all work the exact same way they did in 1e, so an attainment in 1e that just copied a spell might need a full write-up of what it's actually supposed to be doing, now.

I'm in a murder hobo mood, is Brawl, Weaponry or Firearms better?

In what VtM sourcebook did Beckett first appear?

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>>48495271
Don't forget to show them how fucked up Sabbat is but also that they truly care about saving the world (well, saving vampires). How are they even going to infiltrate the Sabbat? are they being sent to be hardcore infiltrators, ie joining the Sabbat and pretending they defected? Then they will need some sort of protection and probably memory-wiping so that Sabbat doesn't suspect anything.

That way you can get them into Vaulderie and show the the Sabbat camaraderie, how they are willing to die and kill for one another, creating some conflict for the players. That way you will show the players that Sabbat are not just "lol evil" but actually have depth and reason to be like that. Guide to the Sabbat is highly recommended (ignore the edgy examples of roleplay though)

Sure, Sabbat can be considered evil but there can also be honor, bravery and kindness among them

>>48501728
what splat?

Is the Inspiring merit any good? Being able to grant willpower once per session seems like it'd be great. Now only being able to help people once per day could hurt if it's a slow paced game were many sessions take place over the course of one day but that's the story teller's fault.

>>48499348
In what way are they not? Just because you're not consciously thinking about it doesn't mean its not a thought.

>>48499023
The Moros write up explicitly talks about it as Change. In fact, that's one of the big Moros things: That Death is the Tarot of change and transitions.

>>48499737
Page 111, top of "Improvised Spells":
>When casting the spell, the mage creates a dice pool based on her Gnosis and her dots in the highest Arcanum included in the spell.

>>48499825
>>48499915
>>48499853
If you successfully cryostasis someone, they wouldn't be dead...

>>48500385
You'd pretty much need to completely start from scratch and come up with 5 Attainments. And some other stuff. It's better to keep the original themes and fluff in mind and then start from scratch. In fact, I really need to go back to The Whipping Boys and figure out their 5th dot.
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw27KSZGO

>>48501737
Please respond

>>48502320
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Beckett
One of those

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In Mortal Remains are Greater Demons supposed to be Inferno based?

They sound incredibly similar to Institutional Demons (The unchained/DtD demons) but at the same time they talk about the God Machine.

Whats up with that?

>>48502503
Institutional Demons are Infrastructure.
Greater Demons are stronger or active threats, and could even be Angels.

Any Wraith players here
please don't forget me :-:

>>48502690
I know a guy who played Wraith. He enjoyed it.

>>48501728
Firearms because it ignores Defense.

>>48502754
Until they get close....

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>>48502774
Move back and shoot. There's no penalty for doing so.

>>48501907
Nothing says comradery like torture followed by a bit of gang rape....

Fuck the Sabbat.

>>48502802
True.

Gentlemen, how do we wipe out the Carthians?

>>48502690
>>48502727

We'll be able to talk about Wraith when 20th comes out.

Someday.

Maybe...

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>>48502871
have them wipe themselves out

>>48502809
Because they're no longer humans, so why should humans matter? If all you're going to do is focus on how nice should you be towards a creature you feed from, who understands nothing about your daily struggles, then you're the perfect pawn for the elder vampires to manipulate and pull wool over your eyes. A vampire needs to deal with vampire affairs, fight for vampire survival and protect their allies. Not worry about humans because they will die anyway

>>48502802
>implying implications

>>48502774
Not in 2e. Only penalty is the weapon's size.

>>48502913
>If all you're going to do is focus on how nice should you be towards a creature you feed from
I feel like you miss the point of why people think the Sabbat are stupid if you consider "not torturing and raping for fun" the same as focusing on being nice to the creature you feed from.
You may notice that we don't torture and rape cows, and we're even moving away from treating chickens like third world prisoners because it makes them taste better not to.

>>48502915
Oh shit I just realized this.

Does melee have any advantages? I mean I guess if you disarm then the enemy is royally fucked.

>>48501728
Are you supernatural and if yes, what type?

>>48502941
I'm playing devil's advocate though

>implying all the Sabbat ever does is torture and rape
Hanging a human upside down for the guests to savor the taste is torturing it, sure. But how much do humans care that the cows they drink milk from are impregnated to produce milk and kept in small stalls where they cannot even more? Not that many I'd wager. There were so many movies about chickens basically being force fed to the point of death and again, only a small portion of humanity cares about that.

As for regular torture, if it's fun to see the reaction of a human, then why not. Sure, more old vampires may look upon this with disdain as young sabbat are getting too distracted from their true goal but again, humans often torture animals for fun. Because the reaction is interesting to watch, knowing that you're the one causing this and being in control makes you feel powerful

If you want to survive in modern nights, you need to kill your pity. Learn to ignore a human being slowly dismembered by a pack mate; whatever happens, happens. That human was unfortunate to meet its fate, but now nothing can be done

>>48503063
If you're a supernatural template plenty. Many abilities are grapple/melee range.

If you're a Mortal? Range is always preferable. Just like the real world.

>>48503169
I Agree
There goes my batman idea

>>48502176
>The Moros write up explicitly talks about it as Change.
Thats moros not death. Moros write up can be whatever it wants, it doesn't suddenly add things to death's purview

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>>48503089
Y'know the only thing cringier than a Sabbat is a Sabbat player attempting to justify Sabbat actions as meaningful.

>>48503201
Roll an Adamantium Arrow Mage. You can literally punch your problems out of existence.

>>48503063
If you get disarmed you can just pick up your weapon on your turn unless the disarmer has a merit.

>>48503242
>implying I ever played in a Sabbat game
No anon, I am just capable of adapting a mindset of a particular faction and see their side of things

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/vampire-masquerade-rpg-bundle

This is pretty cool. Anyone ever play Masquerade before? I only played it once, I was a Gangrel!

>>48499690
I know in 1e there was some spell that made you functionally dead until specific conditions were meet. Im not sure if it also stopped decay or not.

>>48502871
I made the Carthians in my city tyrannical bureaucrats. It's much more fun with Carthian Law.

>>48503347
Setting is cool albeit a bit too focused on plot your characters will never run into

Though the mechanics are so clunky at times.

Nice to see them do Humble Bundle though.

>>48502690

I'm a huge Wraith fan and have the tattoo to prove it. What's up?

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>>48485623
>What is the last image that really inspired your WoD game?

This.

1e Requiem game set in Miami during the late 1990's. The players are a gang of Simon City Royals who pledge loyalty to a Greco-Roman polytheist sect of the Circle of the Crone.

Aesthetically, it's more anime and less Gothic.

There ain't no pity in Simon City!

>>48504273
hi camilla
here's your (You)

Anime was a mistake.

>>48504273
As you can expect, said game is action-horror, NOT personal horror.

We are not goths, we are not punks, we are not emo, we are not emotional masochists of any kind, so personal horror does not appeal to me or my players. In our opinions, personal horror is pretentious, boring and Gothic. And we don't like those things.

And as for all those thematic purists out there telling us to play "Some Other Game", please fuck off. I'm tired of being told to play "Some Other Game" just because I do my WoD games different from the mainstream.

I like the setting, but I hate the default themes, so I simply eat the chicken and throw away the bone so to speak.

Now, atamajakki, I normally like her (even though she doesn't like me) but yes, even she has a problem with thematic purism. At the end of the day, if you're the ST, you can decide what is in and what is out in your game.

It's your game, make it how you want it. If you don't like something, change it. Eat the chicken and throw away the bone.

>>48504361
You were a mistake, just like punk rock and the goth subculture.

Go make like the other whiny goths and punks and cut your wrists while listening to The Cure.

Here's the theme song to our campaign....

Derek & The Dominoes-"Layla"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WUdlaLWSVM

This is real music, not like Sisters of Mercy or Bauhaus.

>>48504412

I guess I am kind of militant on 'thematic purism,' but it sort of makes sense with CofD; these games all have explicit themes laid out at the start of their corebooks. While some lines have more alternatives than others - you can play Mage as everything from pulp adventure to espionage to surreal Gnostic dream trip - other lines like Promethean or Mage lend themselves to very specific narrative structures.

I don't get mad at people for doing things differently (I do get mad when people say the intended set-up is wrong), but it does make me scratch my head a little.

>>48504412
>>48504433

This is how you know Carmilla's really the most White Wolf out of us all: he can't post without reducing himself to long tortured justifications for his playstyle, like a weebier Justin Achilli.

>>48504412
I can understand that, but why can't you get it through your thick skull that you don't know what personal horror is?

>>48504515

>My Dad Rock is far superior to your Dad Rock!

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Here's some more awesome classic rock for your WoD chronicles. It's a cure for The Cure.

The Grateful Dead-"Shakedown Street"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lCMUkqpI7o

Judas Priest-"Living After Midnight"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR22hbl_e70

Golden Earring-"Radar Love"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwqMKf7r7Xg

Meat Loaf-"Bat Out Of Hell"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9hLcRU5wE4

>>48504433
(´・ω・`)

>>48504580
Fine, I don't know what "personal horror" is. The definition seems to keep changing every time I post here, so I guess I don't know. And I don't want to know.

I'm happy with my action-horror game.

Instant-effect spells with a duration longer than instant recur once every ritual-casting cycle

So if I have a Gnosis 3 Mage who casts a Forces (Fraying) spell with indefinite duration, the target is hit every hour until the spell is terminated

But how does this account for range? If I cast it at sensory range and then leave, does he keep getting hit by the damage regardless?

What if it was an Aimed spell, does he get hit every hour or do flames shoot out my fingers every hour and got for wherever I'm pointing at the time?

>>48504601

Golden Earring is great. Twilight Zone would be an awesome theme for a Descent chronicle.

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>>48504569
You don't say?

It could be worse, he could be a weebier Martin Ericsson or Satyros Brucato.

I play my CofD games as Urban Fantasies.

We occasionally tangle with the self conflicting nature of supes, but that's more on the beauty of what it means to be human instead of the descent into being a monster.

Though that's in part cause my players are mostly HFY optimist types.

>>48504645
Glad we agree on something. Golden Earring's "Twilight Zone" is in fact, an awesome song.

>>48504683

I've had zero interaction with Satyros outside of reading M20, which I thought was pretty cool.

>>48493778
>He thinks Mind is still the best Arcanum in 2e

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>>48504686
You sir, are awesome. Here's a cute bishounen for you.

>>48494994
Singularity core and quantum tunnel?

>>48504713
Satyros has always been "out there" in terms of ideas and opinions. Brucato's works have always been either freakin' awesome or God-awful horrible.

Essentially, Satyros Brucato is very much a "Love it or Hate it" figure. Even more divisive than Justin Achilli.

>>48504273
>>48504412
The problem is that you immediately jump to defending your playstyle, which makes people want to shit on you.

>>48504764
It's a habit I've picked up from hanging around the old White Wolf forums back in the early 2010's. That place was so full of thematic purists and Goth edgelords I pretty much felt like I had to defend myself.

The newer Onyx Path forums are much more civil.

I really don't want to wait until 2022 for Demon: the Fallen 20th. Think there's any hope of a 15th Anniversary Edition next year?

I think some OPP folks have said they don't want to redo KotE, which just leaves Hunter, Demon, and the trainwreck that was Mummy.

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Mama Tried

So, I might redo my Simon City Royals VTR game as a play-by-post chronicle on the Onyx Path forums.

I know none of you are interested, but the door's always open.

>>48504797
You're gonna get picked on if you get that defensive on here. Especially about anime.

Welcome to 4chan.

>>48504815
They haven't even finished Wraith or Changeling, so if Demon even gets greenlit at all, it's gonna take a while.

>>48504797
You might want to cut that out then, since it's not 2010 anymore and preemptively retaliating against people makes you look like a flaming jackass.

Nobody cares whether the theme and mood for your game lines up with the suggested ones from the books, except maybe Aspel, and he keeps writing homebrew that's literally just "this other thing from this other media but in WoD", like his Madoka Magica Hunter compact, or "I'm running a game literally set in Gotham city", so take any complaints from him about thematic purity with a grain of salt.

>>48504852
Well, then. I'll be less defensive next time. 4chan does have a different board culture than the old White Wolf boards I suppose.

>>48504815
As someone who knows basically nothing about oWoD Mummy aside from "they were a good guy splat" and "they literally can't die", what was the problem with it?

>>48504863

I'd rather have them start now than wait five years.

>>48504866
Alright then, I will be more civil from now on. Sorry for being such a defensive jackass this whole time.

>>48504890
I know, but I'm just being realistic here. I never really liked Demon, but I know others liked it, and as far as I know, it hasn't been disowned by Onyx Path like KOTE has (albeit in an unspoken and informal way).

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>>48504885

Good guy splat that doesn't really fit into the wider cosmology at all (other than to directly clash with Wraith) and doesn't really have a point. Also it kinda just tossed Mesoamerican and Chinese mummies into the mix.

>>48504926

At least one dev has said on the forums that if they did X20 KotE, it would be Asian bloodlines of existing Cainites, similar to how India has been treated in VtM.

I think a redone KotE could be a fun urban fantasy game entirely divorced from the WoD, honestly.

>>48504890
Demon is kind of the starting point into WoD's Gehenna right?

The usual thing with the 20th releases is that they leave room for running it in modern times. So how would they do demon?

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Does anyone here ever get nostalgic for the days of Vampire: The Masquerade 1E?

Granted, I was born in 1993 so I missed the boat when it happened, but I recently got a physical copy of the VTM 1E corebook off of Amazon and I've been reading it and it is awesome.

It's so different than Revised and has an aura of mystery that later books lack. I love it.

If I were to run an oWoD game, it would most likely be Vampire: The Masquerade 1E, using only the corebook.

Also, here's some more bishounen!

>>48505000
Agreed

>>48505015

The Abyss cracks open at the start date of your chronicle and nothing else really needs to be said. Especially if you don't do a crossover game, Demon doesn't really need to tie in with the Time of Judgment at all. You can treat it the same way M20 did with the Avatar storm.

Alternatively, just do the Devil's Due thing where individual Fallen are summoned by stupid infernalists.

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>>48505056
If I actually played Demon, that's how I'd do it.

Rain makes corn
Corn makes whiskey
Whiskey makes the bishies feel a little frisky

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>>48504412
Oh hey now I know your name. Man, your sperg outs are great, I remember when I first saw you post here a few years ago. You raged for 2 threads, I honestly thought you were a troll until now. Big fan of your work, keep it up

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>>48505092
Rain is a good thing

>>48505129
You from Onyx Path or White Wolf forums?

I think everyone in these threads knows I'm Camilla from Onyx Path.

>>48504890
Love me some oWoD Demon, but I'll disagree here. If they start now, it might stay in Limbo for years like Wraith 20

>>48505129
Yeah, Camilla and his antics are kind of old news by now. You're late to the party.

Also, I think we may have finally got through to him and have him not act like a complete jackass from now on. Don't ruin a good thing.

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what splat?

>>48505223
True

Meh, I don't care one way or the other. Demon sucked ass in my book, so if it comes out, I won't buy it. But if others like it and Onyx Path makes it happen, I won't complain.

>>48505162
Neither, started with the chans and never ventured outside of them aside from VtM FB page which is actually not too bad if you have lore or rules questions
Which is why I had no idea who you are until I saw people mention you by name. Nice to meet you, I'm the person behind the portraits gallery. Will try to add more soon btw

>>48505000
So more like 1st edition than KotE?

>>48505238
Dunno, Changeling maybe?

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This probably has been asked 1000 times before, and ever since the dawn of Bloodlines. but how does one work with a Malkavian PC.

That is to say: Whats the best way to write their insane ramblings as foreboding truth?

>>48505253
Nice to meet you too, but I'd prefer if you'd be more civil. I'll be more civil.

Also, if you're thinking I'm HentaiLARP-chan, I am not. He was a professional troll from what I can discern, and he made his trolling work by copying both me and Aspel's thoughts and opinions, and then cranking them up to an exaggerated degree.

But that aside, it is good to meet you, Pandora. I do like your portraits.

>>48505238
GMPC.

He's definitely on some next level functioning like an Unchained shit (breaking mechanics to stay alive)

Eitherway he's too inhuman to fit the game.

>>48505238
Hob maybe? Monsters from Undertale seem like they would be their own thing with the Underground being a different realm. Monster souls don't really fit in anywhere, and they definitely aren't a splat that currently exists.

>>48505308
Nah, I know you are different. Pretty sure that was the guy who made that catgirl bloodline, right?

>>48505281
Ehh I don't think there's an easy answer. Mainly because not all Malks have the gift of prophecy. Most of them are just vampires with some sort of derangement who occasionally get weird insights due to Madness Network and even then, not everyone has a strong link to it (especially since you need to buy it as a new skill). Schizophrenic might hear voices who tell him something about a prince that no one knows (Bloodlines was great at this) while one with Sanguinary Animism will have souls of those he drank from torture him and mock him, but occasionally give him some info he wouldn't have known otherwise (but that info would probably be only aimed at hurting him and making him feel guilty). But obv you can't link all derangements with the ability to predict the future.

A truly insane prophet might work best an NPC desu

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what splat?

>>48505432
Demon.

>>48505432
God Machine Infrastructure.

>>48505432
Revenant (the ghost kind).

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what splat?

>>48505512
Mage Noir

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>>48505281
Well for starters, not all Malks are like Bloodlines Malks, get that out of your head now.
Playing a Malkavian means playing the character with the insanity, not just the insanity.

My friend ran a EXTREMELY paranoid Malkavian Gentleman who during polite conversation would sometimes pause, look out the window, check EVERY ROOM in the building, and then after all of that lock the door to the room he was in, and continue as if nothing had happened.

So pretty much, if you're playing a delusional Malk, make it abundantly clear that you are playing a character, not the insanity he has.

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>>48505238
>>48505432
>>48505512
>tfw people dont rage about meme games

>>48505527

That's still pretty fishmalky, anon. Have you never spoken to someone with a real mental illness before?

>>48505631
>>48505527

Guys guys. I'm not talking about how to write the Malk.

Let's say if I did wanna channel that Malk Insight, what's the best way as an ST to work with my Player to properly display that.

>>48505582
This isn't /v/, why would anyone care?

>>48505432
none of the playable ones. Either a ghost inhabiting a robot/park or just something weird.

>>48492589
I feel like Demon: the Descent is actually easiest for players fresh out of D&D if you want them to keep the feel. They have all the toys to hang themselves with, but the way hunter angels actually work gives you some lenience to scare them without actually initiating a TPK, and there are actual dungeons with guards and bosses (Infrastructure, cryptics, guardian angels) built right into the game to go crashing.

Ideally they'll figure out that the world is unleveled - you know, because you'll tell them - and they'll start thinking about how to gather resources to get more techgnostic loot, and since resources are in the form of allies and stuff you can't barter for with cash they're gonna have to start thinking about favor-trading and constructive action and after that they're lost, they'll be rerolling with sad-eyed swoonwhores and edgelord corporate infiltrators in no time.

Changeling's good too. Less similar in the smash-and-grab sense, but more so aesthetically, and you can basically run pseudo-D&D in the Hedge for as long as you want, including forever.

Mage has the most dungeon-y dungeons, but you need all the players to actually RTFM for any part of that.

>>48506017

D&D players are not going to grok an urban fantasy cyberpunk gnostic espionage game right out of the gate.

Start them with Hunter, where they can play notmal people like themselves; it'll make roleplaying easy. Certainly easier than getting into the mindset of a burned alien robot spy.

I love Descent, but it shouldn't be someone's first brush with CofD or non-D&D gaming.

>>48505631
This was the same player who wanted to play "I have split personality disorder, lolsoradom" character, this is a marked improvement

>>48506056
Nearly every gaming group has the loony player, and I always do my best to welcome him.

>>48506053
>D&D players are not going to grok an urban fantasy cyberpunk gnostic espionage game right out of the gate.

Maybe if they're like 16, but everybody's seen the Matrix and at least a couple James Bond movies, probably played a Deus Ex game. "Cyberpunk techgnostic" is the aesthetic, not something complicated and gameplay-relevant; it's a skin for their spells and enchanted items.

All they need to actually understand is the espionage part, which their human facility with the meaning of the word mostly covers: like James Bond, like the Matrix, like playing a rogue, you do things subtly until you don't.

This isn't really a Descent thing, but it just generally irritates me when people assume there's any roleplaying ever too hard to immediately grok. If you take an afternoon to sit down and cover-to-cover any given Chronicles game, or fucking Nobilis or UA for that matter, you'll understand it just fine.

>>48506205

The topic was "what's best for new players?"

I think it's fair to say a game about quantum entangled fallen angels might lose some folks, that the espionage genre has a lot of trappings that may lose people unfamiliar with it, and it has a higher degree of mechanical complexity than, say, Vampire or Hunter. As a game, Demon has a lot going on that might lose newbies.

>>48503308
You act like "the book says there's no penalty so there isn't", even though that would effectively be going prone for a moment.

>>48503201
Batman would require a lot of fighting style merits. Also he'd likely be grappling, or at least close enough to treat it that way mechanically.

>>48503242
His post started with "I'm playing Devil's Advocate". That means he disagrees with what he said.

>>48503089
>But how much do humans care that the cows they drink milk from are impregnated to produce milk and kept in small stalls where they cannot even more?
Actually I pointed out that humans don't do that to cows. I mean, there's a difference between a lack of pity and outright maliciousness. This is also one of the reasons the Sabbat is so fucking stupid. And one of the things I really hate when it gets attention even in Requiem. It even turned a friend off of the game when she read how lol evulz vampires get. Its like they read Warhammer and thought that was what they should go for.

>>48503216
It's almost as if that's the place Stygia is talked about.

>>48503471
Its in 2e, and "better".
And by better, I mean I can't use it to put people into corpse-comas anymore, but when you use it on yourself you're not motionless and unable to tell what's going on around you.

File: 1420103643661.png (192KB, 501x445px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 501x445px

>>48506298
>And by better, I mean I can't use it to put people into corpse-comas anymore
How do I uninstall a book

>>48502176
Because whats keeping a person from doing something may be something thats not related to subconcious. What if the reason why the guy won't leave his job is because a third party is secretly pulling strings to not get him to leave.

>>48506241
>quantum angels
They're just monsters, man. Evil robots with haloes on them is WEIRD, but not hard to follow. Half of what's popular on Netflix (god, remember when "what's popular on TV" was a real phrase you could say?) now is just as weird as that.

>espionage genre
>people unfamiliar with it
There's like two of those people. Bond, Bourne, a thousand assorted thrillers, this isn't like some high-concept exploration of insider trading, this is "sneak past the rent-a-guards, and if that fails, you have machine-gun arms."

>higher degree of mechanical complexity
Than Hunter, yes. Than Vampire, really about the same.

But I say again: do you really think ANY of the Chronicle of Darkness lines, including Mage, including Mummy, including et cetera, are actually something it takes more than one full read of the core book to comprehend?

This stuff is, by design, understandable and playable. There are absolutely lots of players who just skip to character creation and then skip out again with no idea what's going on, but "let's find a game dumb enough that that works out" isn't a good response.

>>48504273
>Simon City Royals
>In Miami
The Royals are a Chicago gang. And your games are more anime because you're the type of person who would rather run in an unfitting system.

>>48504433
Go make like the other whiny weeaboos and jerk off to cartoon girls. You act like being obsessed with baby's first animes makes you cooler than the much more politically active punk subculture. But I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not just some loser surrounded by sexualized PVC statuettes from children's cartoons (and so far almost everything you've talked about has been aimed at the under-18 crowd). Unlike how you treat anyone who calls you an idiot as if they look like Eric Draven (and yet ironically you'd like The Crow)

>>48504412
>I'm tired of being told to play "Some Other Game" just because I do my WoD games different from the mainstream.
But the issue is that you're trying to run a game that doesn't work in the system you're using. The default themes are kind of baked into the mechanics. So you'd have to throw away Humanity, you'd have to change the damage scaling, you'd probably want to add more health, I'm assuming you already ignore wound penalties. Most of the powers don't really facilitate that. Or you could just use Tri-Stat or D20 BESM or Mutants & Masterminds or any number of more fitting systems and just use the fluff of being vampires (even though that seems like it would get in the way of what you want to do in the first place).

Hell, if you're playing a gangster game as "NOT personal horror" you're already doing it wrong, because almost every gang movie I've ever seen or heard about is about how being in a gang is fucking horrible and a shitty life that no one should want to live. Even gangland memoirs have that tone

>>48504515
You realize that no one here actually listens to Sisters of Mercy or the Cure or Bauhaus, right? You're literally making the most asinine dumb assumptions

You already know this, you're just trolling

>>48506425
Then you won't know dick about that bar Space or Mind, to read that information out of his memories, or to see that sympathetic connection and read its details.

So a mage can teach themselves praxes but need a source to learn rotes from right?

>>48504632
No it doesn't. I've repeatedly told you what personal horror is.

It's the horror over the personal things you've done or experienced. You know, like the horror of being in a gang and having to kill someone, or seeing your friends die over turf wars and senseless violence.

>>48504797
No it's not. Back then people were still all over Masquerade and playing Vampions, like you do. You're acting like you're a victim because it lets you troll better.

>>48504847
>redo
You never did it in the first place. Less than a month ago you were shitting up the threads with talk of a Russian Orthodox anime character Lancae et Sanctum game (and talking about how stupid the Crone is!)
You don't actually run games. You don't actually play games.

>>48504877
>>48504898
>I'll be less defensive next time.
No you won't. We literally go through this every time. You're probably going to tell us you're leaving, then spend twelve posts posting about how you're gonna tie your pecker around an old tree.

>>48506426

I mean, it took me a solid two years to understand and like Mummy; most people still don't get it. And Mage has constant arguing a decade later.

There's definitely a spectrum of complexity with Hunter and Vampire at one end and Mummy or Promethean at the other.

>>48506437
>You act like being obsessed with baby's first animes makes you cooler than the much more politically active punk subculture.

punks have never been politically active. they don't vote, they're unacceptable except as fuckbait in general society, and none of them have any economic or historical education (you know, prerequisites to being effective) except for how many junkie beatnik books they've read, which are invariably incomprehensible sludges of chemically-induced nonsense. see also hunter s. thompson, an entertainer and comedian commonly mistaken for a visionary despite the fact that his only real advice was to do drugs until you die from it.

what punks DO is graffiti, loud noise, and know how to fuck back against a dick. they're a political null-set. it's like catching pokemon. it's fun for a lot of kids and young adults but it doesn't mean anything for society except that sometimes being childish is really fun.

i say this as a punk

anime is dumb too though

>>48506525
Unless you have Mastered an Arcanum and you craft your own, yes.

You can learn from someone else who knows the rote, or from a grimoire.

>>48506528

Aspel, is this you? A+ takedown right there.

>>48506529
> it took me a solid two years to understand
I don't believe you. You read the book, and were unable to parse what you'd read? You couldn't have made a character in line with the game's Theme and Mood that would have been narratively functional? Fuck off with that.

>and like
This is different and can certainly take a long time. This is what people argue about in Mage, not that they can't play the game, they don't agree as a community on what to emphasize or explore or add or subtract. But all the groups in that community are running and playing games, doing their own thing.

The difficulty of achieving consensus is not the same thing at all as ability to grok the line.

>>48505025
>Granted, I was born in 1993
No one is surprised. Actually, I feel like you were probably born 1999, but call yourself a 90s kid.

>>48505281
The Bloodlines Malk is exactly how not to play a Malkavian.

>>48505417
>Pretty sure that was the guy who made that catgirl bloodline, right?
No, that was Aspel (me). And most people forget that I made it at an anon's request.

He's the one who talks about running anime or Soprano's inspired games, while failing to understand what personal horror is and then accusing everyone of being a wristcutting emo.

>>48505432
Unfleshed, duh.

>>48505582
"Meme" doesn't mean popular, anon.

>>48506425
>What if the reason why the guy won't leave his job is because a third party is secretly pulling strings to not get him to leave.
Then that's not Death, either. That's Fate, or Space.

>>48506426
>But I say again: do you really think ANY of the Chronicle of Darkness lines, including Mage, including Mummy, including et cetera, are actually something it takes more than one full read of the core book to comprehend?
Yes. It's not the high concept stuff that's the problem, it's the nitty gritty.

>>48506602
There's more to learning a game than knowing the mechanics and being able to make a character.

>>48506532
>punks have never been politically active
Are you an idiot? Punk as a genre is entirely about political activism. You don't sound like a punk at all, if that's what you think punk is.
Fuck, there's even a Wikipedia page dedicated to it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_ideologies

>>48506548
It could be. It could be the Infrastructure making you think that.

>>48505229
This happens in half the threads. It won't change anything. I once spent an entire day explaining to him that The Sopranos actually is personal horror. He didn't understand it and then clearly ignored it.

>>48504639
Range is only relevant when casting. You put the effect on the target with Aim or Sensory and it keeps going until terminated. If you use forces to keep damaging someone with fire, it will keep going until there is either nothing left for the spell to affect, or until the spell's effect is completely resisted (like toasting bones with a fire not hot enough to destroy them).

>>48506525
Praxes are developed from practice, rotes are optimized spell formulas.

>>48506310
You could just thaumaturge it back in, either at a higher dot or with reach. It's not like it conflicts with the 2e cosmology.

>>48505432
that new Promethean type I heard about. The robot one.

>>48507273

The Unfleshed hwere in 1e, in the same book as the Nuclear Prometheans.

>>48485623
I love that movie.

>>48506704
>there's more to learning a game than knowing mechanics and being able to make a character.

Yeah, like...reading the book, at which point your understanding is complete and sufficient for many merry chronicles without further need for study. Takes one (1) afternoon. Fully qualifies you for any given roleplaying game.

We all graduated college, anon. No one is incapable of learning any given roleplaying game in a single day. It is, at most, a six-hour process, if it's something like D&D and you need to read the PHB, the DMG, and enough of the MM to build a homebrew adventure as a first time DM/player.

>>48506623
>I feel like you were probably born 1999, but call yourself a 90s kid.
Don't be a shitbag, Aspel. He didn't say anything wrong.

>>48505281
I'm in a game right now with a Malkavian. He's got delusions where he's convinced vampires all work like Dracula, and he's got psychological compulsions to avoid shit like garlic or running water that don't actually hurt him.

It sounds terrible on paper, but the player does it well.

>>48506298
>>48506310
>>48506819
But coma-punch was the BEST combat tactic!

At least if you were a Mage who sometimes got into unavoidable fights but didn't like killing people.

>>48506704
>Are you an idiot? Punk as a genre is entirely about political activism. You don't sound like a punk at all, if that's what you think punk is.
His point was that punks talk a big game but aren't willing to actually do anything. Like today's Facebook activists, or SJWs back when that word meant anything. Much more concerned with mouthing off and being seen as having the right opinions than actually enacting change.

>>48507911
>unavoidable fights
Bad ST or just bad at Mage?

Anyone got the Geist 1.1 book that I can swipe? The one in the Mega is 1.0

>>48507946
Other players who built fightmages and want regular combat encounters, usually, combined with players who don't want to sit out for entire scenes while everyone else participates in the combat.

>>48507974
You could always give the punchmages something to fend off while the rest figure out how a thing works, Jackie Chan Adventures style, except everything is magic.

>>48507802
First off, I feel like you're not capable of understanding the conversation that other people are having here.

Reading is not necessarily understanding something. There are a lot of things that could be missed, or misinterpreted. Hell, there are several academic disciplines devoted to gaining a deeper understanding of things through multiple readings. While gamebooks may not be that dense, they're still worth a second read through or discussing it with others for a better understanding. And that's not even getting into how they're often confusingly laid out. For many people, it's also going to take more than six consecutive hours to read over a book, mostly because many people are not interested in reading a game book cover to cover in six consecutive hours.

>>48507850
Except for all of those posts where he did?

>>48507911
Technically it wasn't possible to do as "punch". Hell, to make it work I needed to take Aikido 3 and reflexively grapple people, because every Death spell required a bear hug for some reason and the grapple rules in 1e were ass.

>>48507940
Except that's wrong.
And if those people aren't doing enough, where does that put you, when you sit around and say how useless they are? Aren't you doing even less?

>>48507961
You're not missing much

>>48508003
Magic must defeat magic.

>>48508051
When everything is magic, nothing is.

>>48508029
>where does that put you, when you sit around and say how useless they are? Aren't you doing even less?
The difference is I'm not claiming to be an activist.

>>48508090
No, you're just bitching that caring about things is wrong.
Nevermind that plenty of the people you deride actually do go out and do activism. *Someone* was certainly getting arrested back in April.

>>48508158
>Bitching that caring about things is wrong
>You learned this from the one post I've made in this thread
Uh-huh.

>>48508209
Whether you do it out in the rest of your life, you did it here.>>48508209
>Like today's Facebook activists, or SJWs back when that word meant anything. Much more concerned with mouthing off and being seen as having the right opinions than actually enacting change.
This is you making assumptions and ascribing motives to people that in all likelihood they don't have. You're dismissing punk as never *actually* being politically active. Hell, you're dismissing that just talking about these ideas is still worth something, nevermind all the people who actually sing about it at concerts and try to make statements, for better or worse.

You said something asinine and dismissive.

>>48508029
>You're not missing much
Still would like to have it

>>48508029
>First off, I feel like you're not capable of understanding the conversation that other people are having here.
Control yourself, nigger. You're just jerking yourself off, you haven't said anything.

>Reading is not necessarily understanding something
This is an idiotically general statement. Drooling around my cock doesn't necessarily please me, the question is, ARE you pleasing me, in this SPECIFIC INSTANCE?

There is no one who is so retarded that, upon completing a single reading of a Chronicles of Darkness core book for any line, they are not capable of both PLAYING and RUNNING the game with mechanical and narrative efficacy, abilities that together in syzygy form what constitutes UNDERSTANDING A ROLEPLAYING GAME.

>There are a lot of things that could be missed, or misinterpreted
Thank you, Mindless Vagary Man, but this isn't your fucking movie and the cameo ended three posts ago.

>there are several academic disciplines whose existence has no relation to the ease or difficulty of learning and understanding a roleplaying game
Good!

>While gamebooks may not be dense
CAN YOU TYPE A FUCKING SENTENCE WITHOUT A WEASEL-WORD, HOLY SHIT

>they're still worth a second read or discussing it with others
Fine!

>and that's not even getting into my last refuge, "the layout is often [but not always because I AM INCAPABLE OF CERTAINTY] suboptimal"
Oh nooo, a mild inconvenience!

>For many people, it's also going to take more than six consecutive hours
Fine and DANDY, but they COULD, which is the point, and more relevantly and back on the original topic, if you know you're gaming on Saturday there's certainly enough non-consecutive hours in the fucking week, be you working parent, student wageslave, or active service military.

For D&D, to understand and run it as DM for the first time.

For a Chronicles game you certainly shouldn't need six hours, consecutive or no. Literally, someone with a slight learning disability can do it. Obviously yours is not slight.

>>48508555
>You're just jerking yourself off, you haven't said anything.
You mean like your post I was replying to in the first place, where you got all condescending while someone missing the point of what people were saying?

>There is no one who is so retarded that, upon completing a single reading of a Chronicles of Darkness core book for any line, they are not capable of both PLAYING and RUNNING the game with mechanical and narrative efficacy, abilities that together in syzygy form what constitutes UNDERSTANDING A ROLEPLAYING GAME.
Iunno, I get that impression from you.

You're acting like you're capable of digesting something entirely through one read and perfectly running or playing it. You sound like a tosser who thinks they totally "get" things the first time around. "Oh, you need to watch it again to see the foreshadowing? Nah, I saw it all. I was barely paying attention. I'm so smart."

>Literally, someone with a slight learning disability can do it. Obviously yours is not slight.
I'm sure I'm not being clear enough, but I think that you're an idiot who overestimates how intelligent you are.

>>48508642
>I'm sure I'm not being clear enough, but I think that you're an idiot who overestimates how intelligent you are.
Pretty sure you're the idiot retard.

>>48508642
yeah, i have to agree with >>48508684

i mean the guy is pushing your buttons but you're beep-booping like a mongoloid tractor for him, so i think he won

plus is there anyone who DIDN'T understand the game after reading the entire book in here? i know my group basically started when i bought the blue book (1st ed) on a whim, and we basically just got everyone up to speed and running in a weekend. def would have been more like an afternoon if we weren't teaching five people off one book

i mean D&Ders are dumb as fuck but so is half this general

For anyone interested in the Humble Bundle, I snagged it. I needed better copies of the books in it, and boy am I please. While they're not set up with a clickable TOC, all of the text is the rebuilt, OCR text for all of the old books. So it's great for copy/paste things for online games and such. It's also got some good discounts on things like the Book of Nod and the MET: Vampire the Masquerade; it's worth chucking $15 at if you're looking for any of those books on PDF.

>>48508935
>plus is there anyone who DIDN'T understand the game after reading the entire book in here?
Half this thread is people not understanding things.
People don't read these books cover to cover, and there are plenty of things you can miss. It also helps to have different people's interpretations or knowledge from supplements.

>>48508642
I'm not your huckleberry, but just to be clear:

>You're acting like you're capable of digesting something entirely through one read and perfectly running or playing it.

This is retarded. You can type words with more than four characters in them, so you know it's retarded. I don't know what "perfectly" means to you but your OP is right, you can play this game after reading it once, which is what at least two (the ones I inducted, IDK where/how the others learned) group did. They didn't understand PERFECTLY, they had to look up their Disciplines, but so do I sometimes and there's no question that we all understand ENOUGH.

There's exactly one way that you're not the jackass here, and that's if you're dyslexic and literally cannot read gud.

>>48508989
>People don't read these books cover to cover
Yeah, this is the ACTUAL problem. Which is bizarre because if there's one thing Chronicles of Darkness is definitely way ahead of the competition on, it's making their books a fun read. Reading GURPS is work. A given Chronicles book is like half-anthology, which is great for me.

>>48509004
>I'm not your huckleberry
What?

>I don't know what "perfectly" means to you but your OP is right, you can play this game after reading it once
And like I said:
>First off, I feel like you're not capable of understanding the conversation that other people are having here.

>>48509043
Funner or not, I'd still not want to read it cover to cover. Even the times I do, it makes it harder to understand, if anything.

>>48509101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

>>48509004
Yeah these books are very easy to play through for anyone with any life experience, a lot of storytelling is like that.

>>48509101
>Funner or not
I can see why you would think rulebooks need multiple readings.

>>48509101
desu anon at this point it's pretty clear you learn differently from other people. not calling you a retard or anything, but most people have a different experience of roleplaying games. maybe you're just a communal learner or whatever

but usually you do just read the book. i did, my group did, obv other people did. we're not special. it's a normal thing.

>>48509280
That told me the reference, but didn't really explain the meaning.

>>48509333
What the hell does that mean?

>>48509398
>desu anon at this point it's pretty clear you learn differently from other people.
That you seem to think this is about me is kind of my point. It's not. I generally answer people's questions here about Covenants and Orders and Monsters and so on, I don't ask them. I'm not saying that everyone in this thread--or the Onyx Path forums, or anywhere else on the internet--is a genius and still needs help. I'm just saying that you aren't a genius. If you or I "understood" it the first time around, that's fine. But don't act like everyone and their mother is going to fully grok something with one reading and no discussion.

>>48509551
> But don't act like everyone and their mother is going to fully grok something with one reading and no discussion.

You keep going back to "fully" and "perfectly," but no one ever indicated anything about that - just that the game was completely playable and understandable on a single reading, which, yes, is NORMAL. In fact you're five times as retarded as I thought because I thought the other guy was doing the "I am so smart" thing but now that I actually scroll up it's just you - the assertion was that yeah you can read the books and then play, it's not rocket science, which it ain't.

>didn't really explain the meaning
Not that anon, but it means "not that anon." Did you really not get that? The guy pops up out of nowhere and says "I'm your huckleberry." Saying "not your huckleberry" is...

...maybe you ARE just slow.

>>48509754

hou ka pae

>>48509713
>...maybe you ARE just slow.
Maybe you're just bad at this.

>You keep going back to "fully" and "perfectly," but no one ever indicated anything about that
Actually...>>48506426
>But I say again: do you really think ANY of the Chronicle of Darkness lines, including Mage, including Mummy, including et cetera, are actually something it takes more than one full read of the core book to comprehend?
>This stuff is, by design, understandable and playable. There are absolutely lots of players who just skip to character creation and then skip out again with no idea what's going on, but "let's find a game dumb enough that that works out" isn't a good response.
And >>48506602
>I don't believe you. You read the book, and were unable to parse what you'd read? You couldn't have made a character in line with the game's Theme and Mood that would have been narratively functional? Fuck off with that.
Followed by me saying >>48506704
>Yes. It's not the high concept stuff that's the problem, it's the nitty gritty.
>There's more to learning a game than knowing the mechanics and being able to make a character.
And then the reply of >>48507802
>Yeah, like...reading the book, at which point your understanding is complete and sufficient for many merry chronicles without further need for study. Takes one (1) afternoon. Fully qualifies you for any given roleplaying game.
But as I pointed out >>48508029
>First off, I feel like you're not capable of understanding the conversation that other people are having here.
>Reading is not necessarily understanding something.
Having enough information to play a game or even run it does not mean you've understood it. Maybe you're just slow if you can't figure out that people are talking about more than knowing the mechanics.

>>48509551
>I generally answer people's questions here about Covenants and Orders and Monsters and so on, I don't ask them.
which is part of your problem

because you're always wrong about covenants and orders and monsters but never bother trying to correct yourself

you're like an unsuccessful and unpopular donald trump

>>48510857
In what way am I wrong, then? I keep seeing people say this (you, judging from the fact that you can never capitalize or punctuate), but no actual explanation of how I'm wrong.
Which is ironic considering I quote the fucking books.