When is a love potion ethical?

Technically never, but I would let it slide in a scenario like that.

When both parties have discussed the matter and agreed to it, knowing the consequences.

So, political marriages, mostly.

When one's had too many Hate Potions slipped into their drink.

>>48408743
this.

There was this one movie where one of the main characters had screwed up emotions because of this thing that gave her increased luck. Then the boy she wanted to like ended up accidentally mind controlling her into liking him.

>>48408718
>When is a love potion ethical?
"ethical" I don't know,
"not unethical" can be accomplished if the potion was used under the mistaken belief that it didn't work. Honestly I'd probably excuse it if the person used it out of curiosity, you know to answer the question "Is this a legit love potion? or just so much snake oil?"

since, it can be argued that they didn't know.

>>48408746
>Political marriages
Interesting take. I might have to write this into a campaign.

>>48408746
>>48408932

Holy shit this is great
Political marriages by love potion.
Thank you /tg/

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>>48408959
Could even be a standard marriage ritual used in Magocratic societies.

Still, there would be interesting questions about how or if enchanted love differs from natural love. Does the spell create an empathic bond, allowing marginally compatible people to develop stronger feelings, or is it like Pic Related in that it's a form of mind control, and makes the participants obsessive?

And what happens if the enchantment is dispelled?

>>48408768
>all my drinks are hate potions

>>48408718
>ethical
Who actually really gives a shit about ethics, though?

People's actions aren't motivated by ethics, ethics are just used as an excuse to act upon their motives.

>>48408718

Self-administration

It's not.

Magical Realm aside, almost every time a love potion is used in fiction, the person using it doesn't fully consider the consequences of their actions, and it always comes back to bite them in the ass and not in a fun way

>>48409674
What if we don't put Magical Realm aside? Suppose you want to condition someone so that every time she sees your cock she's instinctively filled with the ravenous need to suck it and taste your cum?

That way, she gets to keep on being the same intelligent professional career woman she's always been 95% of the time, while also being a model obedient cocksleeve. That seems like a classic win-win scenario.

>>48408718
well, in my own setting, it's decently ethical.

There's two kinds of love potions.

One enhances your passions for things to rather intense levels, and not necessarily for people. So you give one to a /tg/ and they WILL make that awesome campaign they've dreamed about and throw themselves deep into a system to learn its ins and outs for a whole day or so. Or you turn a /fit/izen into Rock Lee from Naruto.

The other kind of love potion is just an aphrodisiac that makes you horny and sensitive to sexual stimulation.

>>48409810
Sounds like a recipe for public indecency charges.

>>48409810
Why would you need a love potion for that?

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>>48409669

>>48408858
What movie was this?

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>>48408746
Never thought about that application of a Love Potion. Good job Anon.

I hope whichever gender you like gives your special place a good tongue bath.

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>>48408718
I'm gonna go with: never.

>>48409232
If they took it willingly in the first place, they'd probably do it willingly again unless something changed. Especially if it was done for convenience, as in a political marriage between two people who knew they couldn't live and work together otherwise.

>>48409669
Is this some kind of Ayn Rand "Dark Enlightenment" bullshit or are you just rolling your own?

>>48410118
When I saw it it was called Frequencies but I think it has an alternate name.

>>48410155
Its closer to Nietzsche. Albeit, severely aped to the point of bastardization. But it's there.

>>48408718
In this situation, since as far as I'm concerned a parent has an ethical compulsion to love their children.

>>48410062
You don't NEED one. You also don't NEED a car to get around.

>>48408718
When you want to get your bone on, or any pre-modern fantasy, basically.

>>48409669
Agreed. My selfish desire is to be selfless, and I have enough arrogance to be humble, polite, and deferential to others no matter what. My motivation is to make the world better for all others and those around me, to improve the quality of life.

Maybe there's a God and a Devil, maybe there's one of the other, maybe they're both just social constructs. But it doesn't matter because MY WISH AND MOTIVATION is helping others following a guideline of mutual respect for my fellow man.

Perhaps in a way, this all matters more without god or the devil, because it truly means we only have ourselves to depend on, so is it not better to do things that build trust and help eachother keep our fragile illusions of society, civility, love, and justice strong?

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>>48409232
I once had a character that believed enchanted love was the only "real" love that was completely unconditional and that anything else was varying degrees of selfishness or otherwise had ulterior motives.

Never went anywhere since the campaign died, but it was pretty fun while it lasted.

>>48409669
>Who actually really gives a shit about ethics, though?
Ethics are foundation for some standards of reciprocity. "I won't randomly mug people, and I can expect people won't randomly mug me". That kind of stuff. It's not the only thing that keeps society together but it helps. When enough people believe (in) something it's almost as good as if it were real. At least in terms of social / cultural stuff.

>>48409400
Found the Scot.

>>48410062
Maybe because his cock isn't impressive enough to evoke such urges in women on its own?

>>48410276
The first person to figure out how to do plastic surgery on cocks is going to be ludicrously rich.

>>48408718
If both parties consent.

The example I usually go with was a bitter and jaded princess who desperately wanted to fall in love, but found herself internally sneering at even the most noble and virtuous suitors for being too naive and pathetic, even though she knew such thoughts were awful.

It didn't change her personality, but it made the feelings she wanted to have into a genuine thing, and not just something she faked out of desperation.

>>48409674
You urp you're the one who want-wanted this, MORTY. You wanted me to use my amazing science abilities to make a lo- Ough, a love potion to date rape your little friend from school. I just wanted you to pass my legs a screwdriver, MORTY. You're a, a a a, you're just a creep, just a little creep MORTY you know that?

>>48410316
*sneezes*

>>48410276
No cock is impressive enough to evoke such urges on its own. They're the ugliest part of the male anatomy. Whether or not you want to suck a guy's cock is based on the guy, not the cock.

So if you don't have the knack for hypnosis, a highly specialized love potion would do the trick.

>>48410308
We're getting there.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/man-penis-ripped-child-bionic-replacement-article-1.2334100

>>48410370
You either grossly underestimate majesty of some cocks or simplicity of some women. Possibly both.

>>48409669
There's a term for this... i can't remember what it is but basically you're just being a bitter fuck head.

>>48410424
You need to take a break from hentai, you're confusing it with reality.

>>48410424
I've seen a vast array of penises. I've received hundreds by text, email, Kik, and Skype, often after explicitly asking someone not to do so. None of them are majestic.

>>48408718
>Ctrl+f "depends on the setting"
>nothing

W-what?

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>>48410479
Sample bias. The people sending cock pictures are the lonely, desperate men who obviously don't have cocks worth looking at, hence why they're trying to get laid instead of currently being laid.

Head to the sexy men board to see pages and pages of people requesting images of, and admiring, cocks of varying size, shape, and quality.

>>48410487

Whether or not a rape potion is ethical kind of transcends the "depends on the setting" qualifier. Just because one culture sees something as okay doesn't mean everyone else has to accept it as moral or ethical.

>>48410370
That depends. Women typically find cocks to be ugly or weird looking, but gay & bi men love cocks and are more likely to find them majestic & to become cum-thirsty. I'm speaking from experience here.

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>>48408718
when done without coercion and with full knowledge of the consequences

>>48409669
Ethics are meant to guide or suppress motives into something helpful, or at least less harmful.

>>48410534
Those are gay men. Our brains our wired differently.

I know there are women who like the way dongs look more than I--like, in an abstract sense, I know they exist. But they're not that common. There's actually scientific literature on this (albeit as part of a terribly-designed study)--it's something like 10%.

>>48410540
>transcends the "depends on the setting" qualifier.
Nope. Assorted mindfuckery is only not ethical when we assume everyone and anyone has the right of free will. There's many settings where that isn't the case. Hell it wasn't the case at many points in the history of mankind.

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>>48408746
why the fuck didn't I think of that, imagine the wide range of applications with a bit of out-of-the-box thinking

>medieval marriage counseling
>man and woman have fallen out of love but, still want to keep their marriage together for the kids or money or whatever
>Dr. Wizzy prescribes a small dose of love potion to reignite the spark
>bada bing bada boom marriage happy again

or maybe

>fighter visits Dr. Wizzy
>wants a way to make his enemies kneel before him
>the good doctor sells him concentrated love poison to dip his blade in
>effects administered directly to the bloodstream on a hit
>everything he hits has a good chance to instantly fall madly in love with him, and would rather die than strike him down

>>48410580
I'm not going to trust scientific literature if it's terribly designed, that's like willfully injecting poison into your head. Questionable data is useless data.

>>48410370
I was of a similar opinion until I stepped out of the shower and showed off my erection to my girl and received an impromptu bj that was 100% inspired by the enticing visual of my cock.

I'm not saying anyone has a cock so nice that just anyone would immediately glomp into it, like the other poster initially described.
But saying "Whether or not you want to suck a guy's cock is based on the guy, not the cock." is just false.
Some cocks are more appealing than others, and some are just too unappealing no matter how much you like the guy.

>>48410263
Och aye.

>>48410601
It was never not the case, people back then were just ass goblins.

>>48410573
Dude, I'm straight and I say the cock is much more aesthetically pleasing than the vagina. It's got smooth, clean lines and evokes authority.

A vagina is just a fucking mess. It feels good, and I like the general aesthetics of the thing it's attached to, but it looks like a week old roast beef sandwich and only evokes a strong desire to shower.

>>48410601

There's no such thing as a setting--real or imagined--where absolutely no one even has the ability to think "this is wrong".

>>48410649
The study was poorly designed for proving what it was trying to prove. The survey results are still valid.

I'm trying to find it now.

>>48408746
Other good points are for failing marriages that need to be held for convenience's sake or for Eg the children, so both parents fall in love with one another willingly in order to have some enjoyment out of their marriage once more.

Using it on animals is questionable and may risk your asshole but probably morally ok.

Using it as an attempt to reform the BBEG is ill advised but you can always give it a shot - ethically you would want to make it an informed decision (you can either be executed or drink this love potion, choose now) but there are probably better options if you want to rehabilitate a BBEG.

>>48410696
>absolutely no one even has the ability to think "this is wrong".
That's not what I was getting at. My point was more along the lines that if there is creature that doesn't have free will, you can feed it love potion without worrying about doing something unethical.

>>48410540
It does depend on setting because "love potions" may work differently. You also have to consider who is using the potion on who and in what context. Does a love potion enhance an emotional connection? Is it a married couple looking to rekindle their relationship? Is it more like viagra? Does even work if you don't want it to?

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>>48410760

If it doesn't have free will then why give it a love potion, you dongus? The entire point of a love potion is it takes away that individual's agency and ability to say "I do not want to sleep with you". Why would you give your preprogrammed sex robot a love potion?

>>48410726
when you say poorly designed survey, the first thing I think is poorly designed study. The idea of a person who can get a survey right but a study wrong scares and confuses me.

>>48410760
Why would you want to love something that doesn't have free will? That'd be like owning a pet, only more annoying.

>>48408718

>Informed Consent from both people.

>>48410760
>bestiality is perfectly fine!

God damned Randian furries get out.

>>48410825
>when you say poorly designed survey, the first thing I think is poorly designed study
Other way around, got those flipped somehow.

>>48410812
>If it doesn't have free will then why give it a love potion, you dongus?
It doesn't matter why. Because you can. The question was when it is ethical, not when it is good or sensible.

>>48410440
>bitter fuck head
Anon, please.
Ethics are a form of a social contract, nothing more.
That said, said social contract's influence is very real, and if this wasn't an anonymous board, I wouldn't express this opinion.

It's funny that people go apeshit when you say something that is true, but people don't like to hear, because they assume you are against it.

I'm not against ethics. I enjoy life and I celebrate humanity, but you need to be exceptionally naive to think that ethics come before motives, and not vice versa.

>>48410872
You're trying to argue a distinction between ethical, good, and sensible.

>>48410839

I mean, personally I argue exercising control over something which never had the agency to tell you no is just as unethical as taking away that agency from something/someone who already had it.

>>48410825
It was designed as a response to the type A/type B personality thing. That only surveyed men, so this study only surveyed women and divided them into three groups: high energy, medium energy, and low energy.

One of the traits found of "high energy" women is that they enjoyed the appearance of male genitalia, and they comprised roughly 10% of the study's participants (I believe there were about 850).

So you see what I mean. The study's conclusions were forced on the survey data.

It's very difficult to Google, though, so some of the information may have become fuzzy over time in my head. All I can find is "high energy food for women" and "cures for low energy for women" and, worst of all, "psychic mediums in your area".

>>48410893
Well, I wasn't trying to originally. But when someone questions sensibility of action that was brought up as justifiable ethically (and only ethically), I might have to.

>>48410886
In a healthy, well-adjusted person, ethics are the result of motives paired with the understanding that other people have a right to their motives as much as you do to yours. They are not merely a social contract, but the simple recognition that other people are human, and that joy and fulfillment can be derived from this most basic type of co-existence.

It is not complicated, and you don't need a degree to understand it.

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>>48410886

>Ethics are a form of a social contract
>It's funny that people go apeshit when you say something that is true
>you need to be exceptionally naive to think that ethics come before motives

>>48408718
When served in small doses to gypsies and Turks to counteract their inherent malice.

>>48410934
>type A/type B personality thing
Wasn't that viciously debunked ages ago? They weren't able to define every possible trait and classify them in such a way that all people could neatly fit into two wholly distinct categories.

Now I'm really fucking suspicious of this study. Surely you have other, more reliable sources.

>>48410992
It was a response to that study. It wasn't done by the same people and they seemed at least roughly aware of the original's shortcomings (for example, they got a much bigger sample size). The conclusions are still invalid; I'm not disputing that. But if you ignore all of that, and just look at is at though it's a survey that asks "do you enjoy the appearance of male genitalia", and some 10% or so gave a strong "yes", then that information is still useful in the niche case of asking "what percentage of women enjoy the appearance of male genitalia", yeah?

>>48410952
>other people have a right to their motives as much as you do to yours
Again, this "right" means absolutely nothing if someone wants something badly enough.

It's the same as a right of freedom of speech, or a right of privacy - where either your image is concerned, or something that doesn't matter to you - you will probably respect it, but if you want something badly enough, you will forgo ethics in favor of whatever it is that you want.

Also, it just so happens that the society of today is (intentionally) built a certain way that if you are willing to obey unwritten rules of ethics, you will be able to live a complication-less life.
And again, "doesn't matter if you want something badly enough".

>>48408718
>A mysterious vendor offers to sell the party a vial of the essence of pure love
>He guarantees any who drink it will be filled with pure and undying love for the first person(s) they see after drinking it
>It's platonic love

>>48411052

>if you want something badly enough, you will forgo ethics in favor of whatever it is that you want.

Stop projecting. Not all of us are wannabe social darwinists who will automatically sacrifice morality and ethics--especially if doing so harms other peope--for the sake of something we want. Empathy is not a social construct.

>>48411073
You just haven't found something you want badly enough.
It's a different treshold for different people, but claiming that said threshold doesn't exist is just lying to yourself.

>>48410992

Not that anon: the assumption is the data set is sound. They went out seeking absurd things, and came to entirely wrong conclusions. But the actual get-info-from-people part followed actual rigor, so it's still valid data, just not on the original subject of study. In this case, it tells us that one woman in ten finds penises aesthetically pleasing enough to be enthusiastic about it.

YMMV, haven't seen the data, cross reference with women who are aroused by visual stimuli, warrantee void in Tennessee.

>>48411050
Fair enough. If the sample is valid, then it can be used for other things and not just the one study.

>>48411052
>this "right" means absolutely nothing if someone wants something badly enough
Absolutely false. The only people who cannot recognize the basic rights of all humans are the ones who cannot recognize other people as being human.

A mentally healthy person can't bring themselves to coldly harm another person without going through several complicated mental hoops, the first of which is to convince themselves that the person they want to hurt isn't actually human.

The people you're trying to say would do that sort of thing are psychopaths, who lack ethics due to mental illness and not due to any logical flaw in the ethics. Psychopaths need help and treatment, but unfortunately psychology isn't advanced enough yet to give them what they need.

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>>48411063
>give it to the depressed Sorcerer
>make sure the first thing he sees is a mirror

>>48411052
>but if you want something badly enough, you will forgo ethics
Believe it or not, some people want the ethics themselves pretty damn bad. To believe in inherent goodness of mankind and act in the accordance with that.
And some (most) people just don't have the balls to go "all out" about anything.
People who will drop everything including the social norms for sake of a single goal are rare minority.

>>48411118
It's kind of just one of the unfortunate truths of mankind. I'm a hopeless idealist but I know that most everyone is willing to sell out. And as soon as you've done it once, it gets easier and easier every time.

>>48411181
There's something wrong with you. Seek help.

Or just, like, socialize with more people. If the only people you know well are the sorts who avoid other people for some reason or another, you aren't getting a clear picture of what people are like.

>>48411116
>Absolutely false. The only people who cannot recognize the basic rights of all humans are the ones who cannot recognize other people as being human.

You seem to put very low thresholds on duress, pain, and desperation. Not to mention rationalization, disassociation, and the inherent imposition of less-human on socially distant persons due to Dunbar's Number.

How and why do you think rights go out the window in a modern context? One madman in a million wakes up with a hankerin' to disfigure children. The rest are taught.

>>48411136
>To believe in inherent goodness of mankind and act in the accordance with that
What is "goodness"?
Is it "good" to sacrifice a person you love, but that is guilty of a crime, for the sake of innocents that you don't care about?
There is just way too many variables that go into these decisions.
Again, to claim that there exist no specific circumstances where a person will abandon their ethics in favor of whatever is lying to yourself.
Humans don't deal in absolutes.

>>48411118
Please, anon.
I haven't found said threshold myself.
Hell, I hope I'll never find it - it's just too damn convenient to live in an "ethical" society.

>>48410652
Your girl. Not some random girl. A girl who liked you.

>>48411207
>What is "goodness"?
I wouldn't know, I'm not one of those people. I just acknowledged they exist.

>>48411236
>they exist
Who?
Can you truly claim that said people's actions are motivated by "ethics" and society's rules, and not their personal motives, while ethics are used as an excuse?
I sincerely doubt it.

>>48411063
Now take that and make it so the first country you see is what you fall in love with.

>>48410652
>>48411211
In addition to that, girls tell guys their dicks are great because guys like hearing it. Like, you don't really mean it every time you say "you're the most beautiful girl in the world". You haven't even SEEN every girl in the world.

>>48411199
It's what makes "deal with the devil" stories so consistently fascinating. Because there's a little part in all of us that knows that we'd do something stupid to get what we want.

>>48411264
Fair point. But neither can you truly claim that they are not.

>>48411200
You assume it's inherently advantageous to disregard basic ethics, in any given situation or even any situation at all. You pretend there's a conflict between self-interest and morality. Your assertions aren't based on a scrap of evidence, and have more in common with the ramblings of naive outsiders who don't have the social experience or qualifications to back up their words.

Rights do not go out the window in a modern context. Cruelty is an act rooted in self-delusion. Everything you claim as true stems from a misunderstanding of tribalism, because you don't understand that tribalism goes both ways, and that whatever direction it's currently in depends on the person's perspective, and that this direction can flip just as easily.

I've always thought of the cock is the funniest part of the male body. Does anybody disagree? Cocks are funny, right?

>>48411279
>It's what makes "deal with the devil" stories so consistently fascinating. Because there's a little part in all of us that knows that we'd do something stupid to get what we want.

Alright, sure. I'll grant that there's a little part of everyone that's only concerned about the here and now, and gives no thought to the long-term.

But, this isn't the part of the brain where ethics come from. Ethics come from the conscious, front part of the brain along with things like rational thought and decision making. In people where this part of the brain is damaged, like with cancer or getting a red-hot iron spike through their forehead, they start showing traits similar to psychopaths and find it harder to understand morality, or to be moral.

>>48411357
this is a funny looking fish, dont argue otherwise

>>48411280
I don't claim they aren't. I claim that ethics are solely coincidental to personal motives.
When personal motives and ethics clash, the optimal option wins out.
Basically, the person asks himself "Is it worth it to abandon my ethics to achieve whatever I want?".
Again, there's just way too many variables to list separately, but they are there. This decision is not automatically made in favor of ethics, even for people one might consider "moral" paragons of ethics.

>>48411322
You are talking to two different people with different standpoints, you realize that?

>>48411357
you wouldn't happen to have the mario one, would you? Where it's folded over like his nose, and they're in chatroulette

>>48411341
I find it weird with how much emphasis on their importance is placed (even by SJW's as a symbol of 'oppression') how few people actually know how the damn thing works.

for starters, corpus cavernosum isn't a muscle. It's a purpose-evolved spongy tissue.

>>48411376
I didn't realize that, no. Probably a good time for me to leave off, getting way too invested in this shit.

>>48411124
Aw

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>>48411357

>>48411393
Oh, come on! It's fun to be mad about things!
The more invested you are, the more fun you have.
And then you realize it's 5AM, you've got to get up for work in the morning, and you've wasted your night on arguing with somebody on a Taiwanese chalk drawings board about a thing you don't even particularly care about.

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>>48410396
The future is so bright, I don't even need eyes to see it.

>>48411447
Eh, I don't think it's fun to be mad about things. I mean, I get mad and want to act on that madness, but then I remember arguing won't actually accomplish the goal I want it to and set about finding other, more effective ways of getting what I want.

And then I realize it's 5AM, I've got to get up for work in the morning, and I wasted my night reading philosophical arguments and constructs in a language I'm kind of sure I can't read, over something I don't particularly care about.

>>48411376
>>48411393

Roight, killed that conversation dead in one shot. Now, weren't we talking about cocks?

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>>48411447
>and you've wasted your night on arguing with somebody on a Taiwanese chalk drawings board about a thing you don't even particularly care about.

It keeps happening

>>48408718
When you have two pansy-ass bitches who already love one another without knowing it, but you are the mutually trusted party that each of them confides in.

>>48411496
Yes. I maintain it looks like some H. R. Giger monster popping out of their loins.

>>48411211
>Your girl. Not some random girl. A girl who liked you.
>>48411279
>In addition to that, girls tell guys their dicks are great because guys like hearing it.
Again, this was my opinion before.
But she wasn't in a sexy mood, she was doing make up stuff.
Her entire attitude and demeanour changed when her eyes fixed on my cock.
She might tell me nice things and do sexual things because I'm her man and she likes me and for various reasons.
But right that particular act, she did what she did because she found my cock visually appealling.
Surprised the hell out of me, I did it as a stupid joke.

Again, not saying anyone has a cock so nice that a random stranger will need to slurp it upon first sight.
Just saying some are more appealing than others.

>>48410573

I dunno I'm a straight as an arrow lady and I'm pretty fond of dicks/giving head.

>>48411662
But is it the appearance of the dick, or the experience the dick affords? I'm certainly not anti-dick.

>>48411724

Eh I'd say it's about 50/50. I've always been pretty into giving oral for the reactions I from my partner but I do appreciate a nice looking penis.

>>48411063
I to get an IV and keep it topped up with this stuff.

>>48411800
Well, all right. I might be letting my own feelings on the subject bias me into making incorrectly absolute statements about women in general.

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Gettin a little gay in here, fags. Everyone got their daraprim?

>>48411893
>fellatio is gay
getaloadofthisguy.png

>>48408718
>When you use it on bad-guys.
>When both parties consent, preferably with written contract
>if it's funny enough

>>48411893
>Gettin a little gay in here
>Posts chode seal

Is it ethical to use a love potion to get this guy laid? He clearly needs it.

>>48411063
Dump it in a reservoir.

>>48408718
Always.
>>48410155
It's based on current neuroscientific knowledge evincing that people act before they are conscious of acting.

>>48412554
Not that anon but,
>people act before they are conscious of acting
This does not mean that ethics don’t inform and influence the motivations behind the actions.
Are you asserting that a person’s ethics cannot permeate into their subconscious?

I once saw my hand move an item on a counter without consciously choosing to move it.
After reasoning it out for a few moments, I discovered I had unthinkingly perceived a possibility of the container spilling, and moved it. The holy oil contained within bore no importance to me and if it spilled the mess would have been negligible. The entire motivation behind moving it was to preserve something that mattered to someone else, but didn’t matter to me.

>>48410118
Brokeback Mountain

>>48408746
Oh sure
if you wanna take ALL the fun out of it

>>48410396
Man, that URL could start so much shit if you didn't know beforehand what was in it

>>48410886
I think you're oversimplifying how the mind works, but sure.
On the other hand, this is a classic SJW style motte and bailey. If you mean the strong version of an idea, and everyone reacts like you meant the weak version, consider that you might be bad at writing, or a troll, or an unwitting shill

Couples therapy.

Alternatively, the king must produce an heir, but the queen is a fuggo. The Party must go on a quest to find the ingredients for the strongest love potion possible, so that the king can go balls deep for the kingdom's sake.

>>48409232
I love that episode. One day I'll be able to reference it in a game. One day. . .

>>48413321
Nigga, just hit it from the back...or have a fluffer on hand, just as you're about to nut, slam it in the right hole.

>>48409669
This.

>>48413321
This is why you fool around before you marry while you're still a prince. If one of your lovers happens to birth a son, you can just pay the indulgence, have the child baptised, and get the pontiff to legitimise the child after your coronation. No need for a queen in the first place.

Temporary ones are interesting, as are ones which lead to over-the-top yandere type love.

>>48409669
Ethics means "how you live your life in the best manner possible". Considering most people want to live life in the best manner possible, most people give a shit about ethics.

OP didn't ask about morality.

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Would it be ethical for a government to offer (voluntary) "Happy Potions"

The stipulation being that these potions would make a person, especially a miserable or suicidal person, happy with being alive yet does not decrease the drive for success nor removes the sense of danger (in fact, those who drink the potion are less likely to panic useless and more likely to go into some hyperthinking mode on how to overcome the current solution)

>Taking free will away
>Ethical

>>48408718
According to the god of love in the setting it depends on whether he thinks it would make a romantic story in this particular incident. But he's Evil, so not exactly a good measurement.

>>48410632
this is literally just what doctors did when ecstasy was first discovered. It was prescribed as a treatment for couples with marriage problems.

>>48414214
>free will exists
shiggy

>>48411390
anatomically speaking the human penis is fairly unique and has its own set of evolutionary quirks that sets us aside from other penises. Its pretty interesting really. for example we are the only great ape to have completely de-evolved the penis bone, it still exists vestigially in the others to various degrees along with most other mammals.

>>48414214
>falling in love
>free will

>>48410601

If the point of contention is free will, could someone in full knowledge of the love potion, its potential effects or even the certainties of all its effects, and its consequence take one of their own free will if not under undue duress, coercion, or trickery?

Could someone fully aware of the situation, who is a clear and sound mind, choose in full consciousness to take the love potion or allow themselves to take the love potion without the ethical issue? It seems the only remaining problem would be the finality of the decision, though the same would apply to the choice to get a tattoo to a much lesser degree.

>>48414398
Anyone have experience with that? I've been thinking about putting "have sex with a girl I'm in a serious relationship with while on ecstasy" on my bucket list.

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>>48410155
>Ayn Rand "Dark Enlightenment"

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>>48408718
>roofies
>ethical

Gosh, are there any keen insights freshman sociology students WON'T share?

>>48415791
I'm socio frosh, you can suck my nuts.

>>48414576
This post doesn't look suspicious at all. Oh my no of course not.

American law enforcement isn't known for it's subtlety. Or intelligence.

>>48410214
Please stop, you'll make the Randroids cry.

>>48414123
Political marraiges man, sometimes you gotta hit that for the sake of the kingdom.

>>48415930
To be fair, neither is the general American population as a whole.

>>48410214
I want to kick sand in your face.

>>48415965
Loose reproduction habits make for healthier bloodlines.

>>48409810

So let's say you do this. what happens after you put it away and she goes back to being her normal self controlled self? She's then baffled by why she was unable to avoid jumping on greasy neck beard dick. When she confronts you about it you whip it out again and give her 3 inches of mediocre fury again. Eventually she's going to start avoiding you like the plague.

If you can use "protecting the life or well-being of people" as a justification to make something ethical you could probably get away with using it on animals.

From using it on your cat or dog to love your newborn baby so that they'll protect to giving it to some not yet domesticated monster that could be used by knights as a mount, say a griffon. Oh, and how about giving to endangered animals in captivity to make sure they don't kill each other and actually start mating to repopulate.

>>48408718
Political Marriages.

>>48416286
>Oh, and how about giving to endangered animals in captivity to make sure they don't kill each other and actually start mating to repopulate.
Huh, using a date-rape potion to ensure endangered species mates and repopulates.
There’s a Sexual Harassment Panda joke in there somewhere, I just can’t see it.
…And that makes me a sad panda.

>>48408718
When somebody uses it as a recreational drug because they themselves enjoy suffering being in love. Like Stendahl would've chugged that shit like water.

Along that line, it could also be used by couples who'd like to enjoy the spark more often.

>>48410812
>Why would you give your preprogrammed sex robot a love potion
Because it might be programmed for someone else, and you're getting it second hand?

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>>48416351

>>48408718
Maybe to correct brainwashing/mindwipe? If you don't consider a person after those events to be someone entirely different with their own right to exist as they are.

>>48410155
>>48410155
>Is this some kind of Ayn Rand "Dark Enlightenment" bullshit or are you just rolling your own?

Na, we used to call these people "Libertines" back in the days. Any Rand on the other hand, is a philosopher of conservative wellfare babytude.

>>48410370
What if males evolved cocks that produced love potion? Cats and ducks have worse.

>>48416286
>Oh, and how about giving to endangered animals in captivity to make sure they don't kill each other and actually start mating to repopulate.

Doesn't work when your animals need to run a few dozend kilometers in a straight line before they mate.

>>48416645
Not sure I follow. The only animal commuting this kind of distance to mate that I can think of would be salmon. And salmons are not exactly "running".

>>48410729
>Using it on animals is questionable and may risk your asshole but probably morally ok.

Dogfucking aside, surely this has application in animal breeding.

>>48408718
Dropped in central water supply in a major city of some first world country. Preferably Japan. It will dilute enough not be become complete mindbreaker and should help a bit with those declining birth rates.

>>48411116
>Absolutely false. The only people who cannot recognize the basic rights of all humans are the ones who cannot recognize other people as being human.
This sentence doesn't actually mean anything.
>A mentally healthy person can't bring themselves to coldly harm another person without going through several complicated mental hoops, the first of which is to convince themselves that the person they want to hurt isn't actually human
I think you're confusing "being human" and "being a member of my tribe"

>>48416766
Unfortunately in a world where society caters to instant gratification of both sexual and companionate desires through commodity, and wherein societal values greatly encourage working beyond one's reasonable means leaving the average worker with little time to themselves, it will take more than a little diluted magical grenadine to bring up declining birth rates.

Also the declining birth rate is likely to the benefit of a country with as ridiculous a population density as Japan in the long run anyway.

>>48409232
>Does the spell create an empathic bond, allowing marginally compatible people to develop stronger feelings

We have this kind of love potion. It's called alcohol.

>>48408746

>your mission
>swap out my potion with a fake
>t. the groom
>ps: I know she's rich but goddamn what a hambeast

>>48408746
>arranged marriages social lubricant (yes, it's still a potion, not literal lube)

Man, how did I never think of that before? That's brilliant, and pretty much the only non-evil use I can think of.

>>48410308
>>48410396
My only real concern with viable penis plastic surgery being a thing is the number of guys that'd probably go as big as physically possible, and the unforseen negative consequences that could have for their partners that aren't size queens, and the peer pressure the procedure being common and "easy" could put on other guys to get theirs augmented too, even if their natural thingy is perfectly fine (much like what happened with breast implants).

>>48410677
As with most things, not all Xs are created equal. I've seen some downright beautiful vaginas, and some downright horrifying penises, no injury or disease-related disfigurement required.

And vice-versa, obviously.

>>48417705
I don't think so, tits are almost constantly on display you cant not see them. You don't use your dick to attract potential partners. plus the risk of fucking up your dick in a botched surgery would scare most men away I think.

>>48408718
Strictly speaking, nothing is ever morally/ethically anything.

>>48417725
Yeah, but I've met/observed some guys that are OBSESSED with penis size, as if it were the most important thing in the world. Their own, other men's, to the point where (hetero) men forget to even think about what women think about the subject, the actual mechanics of sex with another person, anything besides weird feelings of inadequacy and personal worth, far out of any proportion to reality.

I've seen a lot of that with height, too, especially in the last few years on 4chan, thanks to /fit/. I'm sure that if a non-quackery height-increasing treatment existed, you'd get a lot of 7'+ guys living in a personal hell of a world that doesn't fit them, but convinced it was going to somehow fix a problem they never knew they had until someone else convinced them of it.

Hell, there are a bunch of vaginal-"beautification" procedures out there now, and women are starting to find themselves pressured to undergo them, despite vaginas being pretty great as-is.

The cosmetic surgery culture is scary.

>>48410632
I want those glasses

>>48416956
Why would you want to be stuck in a loveless marriage?

Why not fall in love with her and get a fetish for hambeasts?

This is literally "make this person more tolerable to me", the potion, and you want to switch it out with a fake when you have to put up with her for decades?

>>48418244
I'm assuming it would be because he plans on having a mistress.

>>48408718

When you're the one who drinks it so you fall in love with the person who needs your love more than you ever needed to be in love.

>>48414433
Funfact, some religious scholars have said that the "rib" removed from Adam to make eve was actually the baculum.

>>48408746

Well I'll be, you found a use for the potion that isn't completely evil!

>>48408925
>lol is this gun loaded
>lemme point it at a person and pull the trigger
>I just didn't know

>>48410677
Wait a second, this isn't /fit/

>>48418244
He doesn't want to be bullied.

>>48416815
but what should Japan do now that massive portion of the population is old?

europe seems to be trying to get Japan to take shitloads of refugees to help with it but i don't think that will help at all

>>48420264
European refugee export is less about helping anyone and more about getting rid of them.

>>48420264
Haven't the refugees suffered enough?

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>>48420553
Can the person who moves solely because his county of origin doesn't do welfare really be called refugee?

>>48408925
See>>48419571

Even using it out of curiosity means that you were willing to take the consequences as if it were real.

>>48410370
>They're the ugliest part of the male anatomy.

Eh, no. Women often have a strong response to dick.

>>48416216
Obviously the guy in the scenario is attractive.

>>48420767
Only when its presence suggests sex or sex-adjacent activities are imminent. The penis itself is still ugly as sin.

>>48408718
Voluntary self administration or with informed consent.

I'm also leaning toward yes if the sex or marriage is compulsory because of an arranged marriage or master slave relationship, setting aside the issue of whether forcing the user into the relationship itself is ethical.

>>48415810
>I'm socio frosh
You should really take the other guy's advice then.

>>48420823
Yes genius, sexual characteristics pertain to sex frequently.

>The penis itself is still ugly as sin.

Have you considered that maybe instead of millions of gay men and straight women being objectively wrong in some sense, maybe, just maybe, its not to your extremely subjective taste?

>>48415791
>comparing inducing unconscousness to inducing an emotion

Literally all you have to do to figure out a situation for them to be ethical would be one in whic ha given emotion is desirable for the subject.

>>48408718
If it has no lasting effects (and nothing unethical is done to the person while it's in effect) but you get something good out of it (something like using it to convince some guard to go hide in a closet and wait for you so you can sneak past without killing him)

OR, depending on who you talk to, if it saves lives (feed one to Hitler to prevent WWII, or to some hostage-taker to get them to let the hostages go, or some shit like that).

Or when the drinker consents, but that's already been said.

>>48415791
Strictly speaking I can think of a lot of ethical uses for roofies. Basically any time someone would be safer while unconscious.

Stuck on a space station only you can fix? Everyone else using up oxygen you need?
>Sleeping people use up less oxygen!
>Roofie everyone! (but yourself. You've got a space station to fix)

Person maybe going to go into shock from pain?
>Now they're unconscious!
>Strictly speaking I'm not a doctor and am not 100% certain that this would help but I think it would.

I'll give you that love potions are a much harder ethical sell since it's hard to name a single case where someone would definitively need to be in love for their own good but I think it'd be easier to find scenarios where someone would voluntarily take a love potion.

>>48410370
>No cock is impressive enough to evoke such urges on its own.

Cocklust is very real. I've been attracted to guys based solely on anatomy before. On the other hand, I don't see how any part of female anatomy could be sexually arousing to anyone. The thought of forcing myself to be with a female would render an erection completely impossible.

Of course, I'm sure /tg/ of all places is probably not the most appropriate platform for discussions about comparative anatomy.

>>48421105
At least you put the qualifier "I don't see how" in contrast to the myopic guy you responded to.

>>48420884
>millions of gay men and straight women being objectively wrong in some sense
Nice straw man.

>>48421184

Oops, misuse of the term strawman. Common mistake, don't fret, friend.

Guy I was talking to made multiple posts attempting to argue away the sexual preferences of the millions of women (and men) that are genuinely attracted to penises.

>>48421225
First of all, not guy.

And second of all, those folks aren't wrong by any means. ESPECIALLY since, as you'll recall, I specifically pointed out it's more common for gay men to like the appearance of the penis. The women who do are not wrong, they're just the minority.

So you're not criticizing what I said, you're criticizing a rough facsimile of what I said that's easier to criticize. I wish there was a term for that.

>>48408718
When it helps you love yourself.

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>>48410370
>They're the ugliest part of the male anatomy

Dude, do you like, hate your own gender or something? Cause when I read that the feeling of self hatred I got off of it was so strong it made cringe a bit inside.

Like no offense meant here but it sounds like something an angry teenage girl on Tumblr would say.

Are you alright there buddy?

>>48421936
>Like no offense meant here but it sounds like something an angry teenage girl on Tumblr would say.

Judging from >>48421324 I think you hit the nail on the head.

>>48417813
>the actual mechanics of sex with another person

The common widsom as taught by the movies is that vaginas are infinite caves of pleasure. There's no limit in either depth or width. And let's not forget that they're made from a clay-like material that preserves any deformation it ever suffered forevermore.

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>>48422227
My years of consuming Japanese media have taught me that the female vagina and womb are fairly comparable to pic related in terms of their ability to pursue and wring the sperm out of penises.

>>48414201
What you have described is marijuana.

>>48408746
But if they love one another more than their respective countries/clans/factions they are both liabilities.

>>48422672
>yet does not decrease drive for success

>>48408746
But they still don't actually want to love one another.

>>48422700
Lower the dosage, then.

>>48420264
>>48420303
Wait a minute, there's people who are being kicked out of their country, despite having done nothing wrong, and have nowhere to go?

How do I start my own country? Preferably without killing, that would kinda defeat the point.

>>48411073
Lots of people are demonstrating this right now.

Just look at the trampelling of freedom of expression by people that cannot tolerate being disagreed with.

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>>48421324
>>48422091
Well now I'm just offended. Seriously Femanon, what the fuck?

>>48422830
Killing is pretty much mandatory, no one is going to give up their country for you without bloodshed. If any country were willing to put you in charge they'd probably so shitty killing would be part and parcel of getting anything done.

But maybe if it gets warm enough you can get a bunch of people and take over Antarctica

>>48422991
Phooey. Well, I can think of a few small countries in need of a good revolution...

>>48408718
never, except for >>48408746

you dont need any other answers and this thread is classic /tg/ cringe

>>48410886
>It's funny that people go apeshit when you say something that is true

"truth" is totally subjective, you're trying to style your opinions as Fact because you are unable to see further than the end of your nose, edgelord.

>>48411063
>A mysterious vendor offers to sell the party a vial of the essence of pure love
>They keep walking because they've been to a large settlement before

>>48422924
Its true though. Not all parts of the human body are attractive. For example, the penis.

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>>48409669

>>48423462
See
>>48423434

Just because you have ovaries, you can't just piss out your personal, narrow opinion and call it universal

Never.

Always ethical, technically.
If the love potion is permanent, the one who consumes it is actually in love and thus consents to being in love.
>inb4 people start arguing for post-hoc retractions of consent
lol

>>48408746
>All these people on /tg/ that don't know about Tristan and Iseult
>On /tg/
How far the great have fallen

>>48410652
Wow, you just introduced an ANECDOTE which supported the opposite argument to the one you thought you were supporting. Work in a meme and we'll give you a 1st place prize tripcode.

>>48423434
Not the edgelord in question, but I'd like to point out something.
>you're trying to style your opinions as Fact because you are unable to see further than the end of your nose, edgelord.
This is true.

>"truth" is totally subjective
This is untrue.
Or at the very least is a misleading use of quotation marks.
Citation: (2 + 2 = 4) is objective truth.

>>48423485
Anon, please.
Do you not understand the notion of social contract?

Everyone does good things to each other not because they're altruistic, but because it is more beneficial and convenient to live in a society of trust.

I'm doing good things not because "hurr durr ethics", but because I see more benefit in upholding the social contract and using the benefits the society provides me in return.

And by the way, as soon as something threatens that trust of people in said social contract, the whole system starts tumbling down like a domino chain.

But, of course, you are free to cry "edgy" and strawman all you want.
I mean, who am I to stop you?

>>48416747
Finally a way to save the damn pandas.

>>48425190
Upholding a social contract because it's more beneficial compared to, say, everybody being dicks, is ethics 101.

>>48421324
>So you're not criticizing what I said

Sure I am.

>Only when its presence suggests sex or sex-adjacent activities are imminent. The penis itself is still ugly as sin.

>you're criticizing a rough facsimile of what I said that's easier to criticize

Well no, now you backpedal and admit that you're just talking about your preferences.

>Not a guy

Not anymore, sure, but trans folk, no offense, don't exactly have an unbiased opinion on dicks.

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>>48408718

>>48408746
That is fucking brilliant.

>>48408718

Only if you balance it out by giving someone a hatred potion.

>>48408746
That was the original intent in the story of Tristram and Isolde. But guess who ended up drinking the potion instead of the king and Isolde?

>>48423506
It's not just my opinion, nor is it just the opinion of the person to whom you were just responding. It's not even a secret that this is a widely-held belief.

>>48421936
>>48422924
I like men. I like the male body. I like muscles and stubble and shoulders and deep voices and stupid meaningless competitiveness. Then there's the veiny, fleshy protrusion surrounded by dark hair as if it's designed to draw the eye, like TF2 character design.

Why are you so goddamn offended by this notion? Have hentai so thoroughly shaped your worldview that the idea that undiscriminating cocklust is not a ubiquitous part of the human experience evokes moral outrage?

>>48428062
Or maybe they're a person who doesn't think dicks are ugly, and can't understand why someone else would?

That seems to fit what's been said so far, at least.

>>48410886
The Romans found out that they didn't need to tell conquered people to obay certain laws, they just naturally assumed that killing and stealing wasn't
allowed.
Natural morals and ethics are a thing that we need to have I order for society to function. Even some bird species know this.

>>48428062
I’m not the anon you’re responding to, but I mocked >>48410370
I, for one, am just aware of the following facts:
Widely held beliefs are not objective, universal truths.
Stating a subjective view as if it is objective fact makes you wrong.
Repeatedly insisting that your subjective view is an objective fact on 4chan makes you an amusingly wrong moron.

>>48411063
>Somewhere in ancient Rome, a man named Gallius and his colleague named Aulus drink to friendship eternal.

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>>48410214
>Fellow Sunbro detected.
Sad to see pic accurate in thread, as always.

>>48414440
Love is just a very close friendship combined with sexual attraction.

Unless you mean infatuation . Infatuation is your hormones messaging with you to get you to fuck something.

That's why infatuation tends to be gone after you get off

>>48428859
Messing*

>>48408718
>magic is used to make your love fall in love with someone else
>use love potion to fix it

1) You could use it on someone in front of a mirror to cure their poor self-esteem. Side effect, chronic masturbator inbound if you don't get the formula juuuuust right.
2) I love that such a small question lead to a conversation about the question itself, a discussion on the aesthetics of male genitalia, and an outright war over ethics. Love ya, /tg/.

>>48423707
>/tg/
>great
>ever
Kekkles

>>48429963
>your entire post
I want you to look at this, and think about what you did.

>>48422714
for people with depressive and anxious tendencies, marijuana often increases motivation (in addition to removing mental roadblocks that inhibit productive action)

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>>48412469
>He doubts the bitch-magnet power of the leopard seal

>>48410308
Already happened. They have a very simple procedure now where they can cut open the top of your willy at the base and slide in this sleeve that fits around it and your ballachas, which extends the dongus and also makes it more prominent.

It's not going to turn the average person into Ron Jeremy, but it's pretty impressive. They're not that expensive either.

Apparently their biggest customers are black guys who are depressed because the big black dingus stereotype creates unrealistic expectations in their partners.

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>>48417652
>not literal lube
>love potion lube
Now that sounds like a business opportunity I can get behind.

>>48420859
A good if drastic measure one is getting someone to stop self harm or suicide via love potions, or giving someone who's lost everything a purpose in life.

Better in love than dead, right?

>>48416286

>Using it on a griffon

Oh Christ this sounds like a great way to spend the rest of your life dodging aerial rape.

>>48431084
>not wanting aerial rape
what are you, gay?

>>48409669
Found the wizard

>>48431095

Yes but I prefer my cocks to not be covered in barbs.

>>48431129
Just dose a female griffin one, you little bitch.

>>48431307
What's the point if he's gay?

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>>48408718
When you need to stop the monster but you're not strong enough to kill it.

>>48410124
That happened to the first character in Odin Sphere...

>>48431435
Get a sex change, too.

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>>48431545

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>>48431789