signs a tabletop RPG will suck

>You have to consult the glossary five or six times to read the first page
>it requires a glossary

>The book uses specific movies or TV shows to describe the setting/role playing.

>magic realm shit

>>48401676
>Warning: For Mature Audiences Only.
>Meaning "we're pretentious twerps who think edgelord means mature and using 'fuck' is somehow incredibly transgressive and rebellious"

>book advises the GM to actively be a cunt to the players

>Has 4th Edition in the title

>>48403720
This one I disagree with, Paranoia is a great game.

>>48404715
That's not what it says. It says to make the players work against each other.

>>48404715
>>48404902
There are quite a few places where the book advises you to be a shithead.

Any books that opens with an essay attempting to justify its own existence is going to suck.

>>48401676

> "The pronoun game" textbox

>>48404487
Counterexample: 3rd and 5th edition of Shadowrun are worse than 4th one

>>48404487
To be fair, D&D 4E was a decent system when they fixed the math. It's just a shit as a D&D system with shit marketing.

>>48406040
And there it is. Goodbye thread.

>"What is an RPG?"
Bitch you know what a fucking RPG is. Don't act the cunt.

>>48406082
>Waaahhh.... Someone has an opinion I don't like, this thread is ruined now.

OT: tbqh the opening pages of most editions are shit.
>muh fantasy RPG
>muh prestigious history
>muh "I did it first, so I do it better"
>muh "I'm an RPG so I'm nothing like the other games you played."

>>48406091
If you gave me a dollar for every one of these essays I've read in a rulebook I'm checking out, maybe I'd stop skipping them.

>>48406175
At this point, they're like EULA's. No one reads them, but everyone knows what the basic points are because they all read almost exactly the same.

"World's most popular role-playing game"

Just say "Dungeons & Dragons" you fucking sperg. It's not illegal.

One of my big peeves is games who shit on other games in order to show how superior they are.

Let's invert the thread a bit: What sort of things would you like to see more in rulebooks?
>fucking short, to the point, examples, especially in systems any more complex than 5e dnd

>John Wick

>>48406318
My blurb names problems, but namedrops only games that mitigate those problems in some fashion.

>>48406597
I would like to see more sections on recommended reading.
Like Appendix N for Adnd 1e.

>>48406648
fuck this man

>>48405827
Paranoia is kind of the exception that proves the rule. Everyone should know going into it what the game is about, so no one becomes attached to a clone that's about to be vaporized.

>>48406648
Before I looked him up I just thought tg really hated the Keanu Reeves movie

>>48406091
Every system I've played without a "what is an RPG' section has been terrible.

>>48406597
A character creation section laid out in the order people actually make their characters. For example, putting class selection at the start, not the end, of the section.

>>48406713
>tfw mostly play GURPS and every big book has a one~four page list of movies and books at the end.
Found so many good books and series off Space.

>>48407839
This.

Usually when they assume you're "a veteran" and know what an RPG is, they're really assuming you're a smug neckbeard here for "sophisticated" or "mature" games.

This is all excepting the super short 3-page style rulebooks. Those are fine.

>>48404487
GURPS 4e is best GURPS.

>>48401676
>It starts of with some quote of a character of the game.

>>48407926

Lies, you will never again see the glory of GURPS Vehicles 3e.

This may sound shallow, but lazily shopped photos for art. It tends to come out looking worse than if they'd just never bothered.

>>48407961
They're working on it.
It'll probably herald a new golden age for mankind, or something.

>>48406648
what did he mean by this?

No grid. Tactical movement is almost 90 percent of combat.

A separate space on the character sheet for sex and gender.

Social combat.

Magic that is not identical to any other form of dealing damage or has effects that cannot be replicated via mundane means.

>>48407977
RPG books where your car gets stolen and your dog gets shot. It's pretty brutal.

When the GM gives you a text file that the contents page he wrote, because the contents page in the book is approximately in the middle of ~200 pages.

>>48407779

I still admire the stroke of genius the Wachowskis had giving Reeves the single role in the world he was capable of convincingly playing.

>>48408112
I don't know, man. I mean, the alternative was Will Smith. Imagine that. The Matrix series would've been completely and utterly different, and sometimes I can't decide to myself whether it'd have been a good kind of different.

>>48406597
I'd like to see an Appendix where all the content is organized and listed in different useful formats.
> Magic items by rarity
> monsters by CR level
> Ecosystem tree that ties together different monsters together, like GithYanki/Zerai connected to Illithid/each other.

>>48408138

The Matrix would be worse.

The sequels would be better.

>>48406207
Actually, I've heard Wizbro have sued people for saying D&D in their books.

>>48401676
>Uses female pronouns as the default

>>48408048
>A separate space on the character sheet for sex and gender.
No game has done this.

>>48408627
Hello Eclipse Phase how are you today

>>48404902
That sounds pretty cunty, if I had to say. It works for Paranoia, absolutely, but that's part of the point.

>>48408627
FATAL.

>>48408657
>Eclipse Phase
You know, given their forums went spergy SJW a few years ago that doesn't surprise me.

>>48408690
Uhu, or it's maybe because, you know, people can and do change bodies all the time, and sometimes are forced to.

>>48408715
Yes, but then you have to wonder why gender is a relevant concept at all in that society. It should have gone the way of the dodo long ago if transhumanity has truly taken hold, or at least be so irrelevant to not deserve a spot on the character sheet.

>>48406013
Whats the hate on 5e? I recently got into shadowrun and will admit the core rulebook and some of the splatbooks could use an editor, but what makes 4e better than 5e?

>>48406597
Well made sample/quickstart characters. The basic rules at the start of the book. More concise rules text in general. Shadowrun style in-world comments in the margins.

>>48408736
I think it all being accessible to the masses is a rather recent thing in the setting.

>>48408048
Shadowrun 5e?

>>48408753
All the rules in 5e are rules that were in 4e made either more obtuse (throwing the Priority system on chargen), less functional (Limits) or kept super bad (anything involving the Matrix).

Pre-Anniversary 4E books are better written, with cleaner rules that work better than 5E.

>>48408048
>No grid. Tactical movement is almost 90 percent of combat.

A clunky grid system is no better, nor a more accurate simulation, than abstract rules combined with theatre of the mind. If anything, a grid system encourages a highly artificial, entirely gamist view of the scene that's even further removed from any real combat.

>A separate space on the character sheet for sex and gender.

It's the 21st century gramps, everyone relevant is agreed that this is OK.

>Magic that is not identical to any other form of dealing damage or has effects that cannot be replicated via mundane means.

That's just opinion, and a shitty one at that.

>>48406091
That section isn't for Grognards, it's for newcomers and people that actually don't fucking know. Just skip over them like everyone else. Or, if you are curious, read them and get an idea of what the authors think an RPG is and what you can expect from the book.

>>48408753

It's mainly "muh edition" shit, same as with DnD 5e vs PF/3.5.

The chief complaint that actually gets given any coherent voice boils down to powerfags complaining about limits. Basically there are now limits on how many successes you can generate from a dice pool. Unimaginative powergamers now can no longer simply optimize through gear to throw buckets of dice at any problems they encounter in-game. Their optimized bullshit characters are no longer super flexible, and they mad. I know two people who stopped playing when we switched to 5e and I'm rather glad because they were boring gamists who viewed literally everything in game strictly in terms of mechanics.

>>48408922
>it's Current Year gramps, stop disagreeing with me on genderfuckery you bigot

>>48408048
>Magic that is not identical to any other form of dealing damage or has effects that cannot be replicated via mundane means.

Are there any RPGs with magic that you like ?

Because every RPG with magic I can think of has magic doing things that can't be done by mundane means.

>>48407779
Me too.

>>48408050
And your hot wife dies of cancer.

>>48406648
Fuck off, mate.
You may shit upon his GMing style (and with a good reason), but all of his RPGs are at the very least solid and often have some of the best ideas and implementations of RPG mechanics that I've seen.
Wilderness of Mirrors, Aegis Project, Cat, 7th Sea, Houses of the Blooded - all of those are great.
>b-but muh "Play Dirty" meme!
The man is a great game designer first, and the shitty GM second. Stop memeing.

>>48408302
This.

>>48409807
Hey, John, how are the sales for 7th Sea? Still sticking with that weird raise distribution thing?

>>48410150
>that weird raise distribution thing?

Having never heard of 7th sea before, I've got to ask: What do you mean by this ?

>>48410455
Reading reviews, apparently the resolution system involves rolling at the beginning of a scene. This generates a number of raises, which are basically units of success. Then, as the scene goes on, you distribute these raises to complications that appear in the scene. I'm not sure exactly how it works, and I haven't gotten a clear explanation.

>>48410571
That is different. I can see some problems, and some ways to solve those problems, so I'll wait for a detailed explanation before judging it.

>>48409807
>some of the best ideas and implementations of RPG mechanics that I've seen.
Please give examples that I can understand instead of naming RPGs that I've never heard of before.

>>48408048
The fuck is 'social combat'?

>>48412480

Social Justice Warrior: The Triggering.
An RPG where you check privileges of cis white males, try to become the specialist of snowflakes, tap into your otherkin powers, and try not to become so triggered that you lose your sanity. Social Combat is an aspect of the game in which you make rolls typically reserved for physical combat in situations like arguments, chimping out, and using buzzwords.

>>48412480
Strongly associated with Exalted, it is the idea that you can invest resources into being good talker instead of fighter; a Diplomancer in other words.
Many people feel that it is weird that by rolling some dice, having good stats and wearing the right equipment you can effectively control others. GMs especially dislike it being possible to talk your way out of every fight.

>>48412790
Never played Exalted. How is this any different than the D&D bluff or diplomacy skill?

>>48412849
It tends to be multiple rolls, I think, and I think there are whole bunch of mechanics for it, honestly I too have never played Exalted, most of the stuff I know about it comes from Keychain of Creation.

>>48412849

Literally full "roll initiative" combat, but only with words.

Also, on most settings where you have "Supernatural Charisma", it's never clear if you are just that of a convincing man or you are just mindraping people. Exalted is one of the best examples on how fucked up it can get since with just spending a little bit of "mana" you can turn any mortal into your undying pet.

>>48412480
Pretty fun.

>>48401839
That's more about helping first time players learn about how to roleplay in the terms if an RPG, isn't it?

>>48401676
Curious to hear examples of this happening

>>48412546
Most people just say Werewolf the Apocalypse.

>>48413017
As am I.

I don't doubt that they exist. I don't doubt that they are terrible. I just want to know how bad they are.

>>48401676
The Council of Earna uses "supernal energy fluctuations" or "ki", not silly spells like the rest of those crazy cat ladies & "Christian Wiccans".
>Fun Fact: The Council of Earna was a "coven" on SpellofMagic.com that were self-proclaimed "battlemages". The reason I know this is because I use SpellsofMagic.com as inspiration for campaigns.

File: 1468715474411.jpg (23KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 480x480px

>>48409056
(You) tried so hard with all those buzzwords but nobody actually gives enough of a shit about non videogame Shadowrun to respond to your bait.

Keep trying, lil' guy! One day you'll be swimming in replies!

> Your skills will increase based on what you used that session.

I've only seen this in a homebrew that we all knew the GM was still working on. But it was still something I will not go through again. I regularly found myself in situations where I had to choose between:
- Doing something with a good chance of solving the immediate problem. When many of the problems were "how do we not die here ?"
- Doing something with a high chance of failure that uses a stat I want improved

The worst part is that the GM was fair in how our characters improved. He was always improving whatever we used the most that session.

> Game is based on a popular setting that you never got into.

The problem here is that the GM and other players will keep assuming you know more about the setting than you do. Leading to situations of:
> GM: You see an x
> Player: What's an x ?
When it happened to me, I always felt like I was slowing the game down by asking.

>>48413017
>>48413061
I don't have it anymore and forgot the title, but I know I almost played an RPG about wizards in a modern-day setting that started with some "forget everything you heard about wizards" spiel as if that was the *real* way magic works.
It was an extremely rules-light system (characters didn't have a stat for social interaction, and the book literally said it doesn't matter what kind of dice you roll) that proudly states wizards do not cast spells, in fact the only thing they do is summon a demon that's controlled by the GM and can refuse orders.
All the time I was reading I thought, well this is pretty far from most people's conception of a wizard game, so most people would be disappointed.
Sorry I can't be more help.

>>48413240
>GM:You see a monster of the brundle variety
>Player: Okay, I'm gonna make a perception check to try to guess what it is by it's features.
>GM: Roll an 8 or higher
>Player: *Rolls 10, good enough
>GM: It has two legs, a long shaft, and a bit of an oversized head...
>Player:Hmm... wait just a minute!
>GM: BRUNDLE PENII SWARMS, EVERYONE DIES
>Player: I entered the magical realm again, FUCKING SHIT.

Is that what it's like?

Mixing fluff and crunch in explanations, there is nothing wrong with a plaintext fluff description, but keep it a separate field(?) from the description of it's mechanical effect.

>>48413387
It's more like
> GM: You see a blobalator
> Player: What's a blobalator ?
GM then spends 10 minutes explaining what they are, with assistance from the other players. Someone pulls up a picture of one on Google.

Then the game continues until the next thing that I've never heard of before.

>>48413362
Fair enough.

But that brings up another one for the thread:
> The game takes the name of something that everybody has some idea of, then slaps that name on something completely different.
For example, 'wizards' in that game you talked about.

File: IMG_20151023_081751.jpg (20KB, 266x370px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 266x370px

>>48413240
I know what you mean. I'm currently playing Star Wars Saga with a group of extreme Star Wars geeks, and I always feel really stupid.
>GM: You discover the room is full of holocrons!
>Them: How incredible!
>Me: Wait what's that
They still all mock me for assuming that "Bifty" was an alien race, when it was actually the name of our contact.

>>48413660
>They still all mock me for assuming that "Bifty" was an alien race, when it was actually the name of our contact.

I'm a bit of a Star Wars geek. None of my SW knowledge would have prevented my making that mistake.

>>48408508
No way that's not fair use but the point is the small company can't afford to have a long legal battle. Such bullshit

>>48413555
>>48413240
By any chance would the game you experienced be PTU/PTA.

I feel that for some games with that problem it can be mitigated either by explaining the things properly (each class has a blurb of what it is, items have both the mechanical AND the fluff explanation of what is) or having a "For the less knowledgable" chapter which is 100% fluff and makes it clear that if you DO know about the world you don't need to read through and it gets back to the part you'll want on page XYZ.

>>48413240
>I've only seen this in a homebrew that we all knew the GM was still working on.
It's also a rule in CP2020.

>>48406149
>Someone has an opinion I don't like, this thread is ruined now.
Pretty sure he means that the thread will devolve into edition warring.

>>48407874
>A character creation section laid out in the order people actually make their characters.
I still can't understand how Rifts UE managed to fuck up the chapter order so badly.

>>48408048
>Social combat.
I don't think this should be categorically true, though I know of no counter-example.
>Magic that is not identical to any other form of dealing damage or has effects that cannot be replicated via mundane means.
Now that's just plain not right. GURPS does magic well, and so does Ars Magica if you recall that it's not supposed to be equal. Hell, Magical fucking Burst is all magic and although the system's far from perfect, focusing too much on magic is far from the reason why.

>>48413724
Sometimes you see things where instead of dropping the d&d word they'll say things like

Here's how to convert monsters from a certain rules system into this system. The system I am referring to is the most popular fantasy rpg and I am specifically referring to the first two and “simple” versions of this game. You can google the words 2 as well as the name of this gam, manual and a synonym for evil and grotesque being to find free indexes of all these monsters. There's no need to spend money on it. I'm not mentioning the name of this game because a very large company currently owns the game and has been known to sue people for mentioning the game in their books. It's likely fair use legally, considering the age of the system. But alas, I lack the legal fees to fight a court battle to prove such a thing and so the tiered court system of this country in regards to civil suits provides larger companies and wealthier individuals the means to be above the law. The name of the game is often shortened to three letters, including an ampersand and with two words that share letters with words such as dog, dad and draconic.

>>48413907
>Rifts UE managed to fuck up the chapter order so badly.

I want to hear more about this. Google just turns up results on Brexit.

>>48408681
This also works as a response to OP. Really, the farther away a game is from FATAL, the better it is; there should never be the possibility of, without any player choice or interaction, rolling up a character with an anus wider than their dick.
>>48408922
>21st century gramps
Look, I agree that trans people exist and are their genders, but you don't need a fucking space on a character sheet for it. If someone wants to play a trans/nonbinary character, they can just note it down somewhere.

>>48414156
>they can just note it down somewhere.
Usually in the backstory / biography section. Or the back of the character sheet, where most people write the backstory.
I'm trans and I agree that having both on the sheet is pretty pointless. Also, most trans people I know just play a character that matches their gender.

>>48413988
The original Rifts core has attribute generation, then skills, then combat, then character classes, then racial classes, then psychic classes, then psionics rules, the setting, then magic rules, then gear.

UE has fluff, then character class, then psionics and magic rules, then Coalition classes, then gear, then the 'how to roleplay' and 'what you need to play' section, then the explanation of common game/Rifts terms, then the character creation walkthrough, then skills, then combat rules. The introduction is halfway through the book.

File: 1467706213617.png (439KB, 1543x832px) Image search: [Google]

439KB, 1543x832px

When the descriptions of abilities have the fluff mixed in with the crunch, so it takes way more effort than necessary to check how an ability works, especially if the description uses really flowery language.

>>48414359
I've only seen it rarely but I've always preferred it when fluff is separated from the crunch in the description. I find fluff can sometimes be important in game, things like the grease spell creating pig grease, for getting a handle on what something is actually doing in the fiction.

Bomp, butthurt must flow somewhere

>>48413799
And other Interlock RPGs like Mekton Zeta.

And the Burning Wheel, but the BW does it slightly better in that you also need failures to improve the skill

File: the_witcher_medallion_2-1152x864-1000x750.jpg (65KB, 1000x750px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 1000x750px

>>48413643

>>48414359
I already mentioned it here:
>>48413474
But all the same, thanks, I was thinking of that pic when I wrote it.

>>48408567
>female pronouns as a feminist rebellion against proper grammar
FUUUUUUUCK.
No. Just no.

You wanna make a point to not use "he" all the time even though it's the grammatically correct thing to do?

Rewrite your sentences to use they & them, or even the pretentious 'one'. Anything but fucking "she".

You want inclusiveness or neutrality over prouder grammar, then actually be inclusive /neutral

>>48407047
If players would stop getting so attached to their special snowflake characters a whole lot of problems would go away.

>>48408922
>It's the 21st century gramps, everyone relevant is agreed that this is OK.
Ha.

A small circlejerk of idiots think it's okay.

Everyone else thinks it's fucking stupid.

>>48415288
It is not rebellion against anything, they need to use a pronoun and many people would bitch about how "they" can end up being awkward and grammatically weird, so they went with she, they could have went with he and it would have been fine, honestly I think they may just flipped a coin, or maybe they wanted to subtly say that it wasn't only for acne ridden guys that are still scared of cooties

>>48415368
I'm glad we agree that transphobia is a giant circle-jerk from idiots and that reasonable people who aren't psychopaths aren't going to pitch a fit that some guys wish to be the little girl.

>>48415213
And BRP. Or at least Call of Cthulhu.

>>48415398
"He" is the technically literally correct choice.

People have tried to introduce singular gnps to English at least a dozen times, and it never picked up.

You want to avoid "he", because you're worried women will feel excluded or like they don't matter to you - by deliberately choosing to avoid the male pronoun you're actually declaring outright that men don't matter to you.

Use something neutral, or use something grammatically correct. Don't go out of your way to exclude and insult your male customers, in order to appease the female ones.

>>48415518
>You want to avoid "he", because you're worried women will feel excluded or like they don't matter to you - by deliberately choosing to avoid the male pronoun you're actually declaring outright that men don't matter to you.
That isn't how it works... It is not saying that ONLY the gender used matters, just that it is AMONG them, it is like how "X-Friendly" stores don't mean they are unfriendly to non-X things, but instead making it clear that among the things they are friendly towards X is one of them.

>>48415609
It is how it works. You're not calling yourself an X friendly store you're calling yourself an X store.


If you stick with "he" because centuries of writing conventions, that's not exclusive, that's just sticking to the rules.
If you're going to deliberately choose to avoid the rules, and you deliberately choose a different non inclusive word, you're deliberately choosing to be non inclusive and excluding the group you think deserves to be avoided in your writing.

If you alternate every example of chapter, that's also inclusive i guess, but probably more awkward than using an actual neutral word.

>>48415343
>when a murderhobo becomes a gm

>>48415671
>centuries of writing conventions,
It was only the 19th century that threw a bitch-fit about it, singluar they has been in use since the 14th.

>>48415671
>If you stick with "he" because centuries of writing conventions, that's not *deliberately* exclusive, that's just sticking to the rules.
Clarification

>>48415683
I like singular they.
It's my preferred solution.

I'm okay with "he" only because grammatically correct.

But if "he" is unacceptable for being exclusive, replacing it with a different exclusive word is going from exclusive language by tradition, to exclusive language by explicit choice.

You've now gone from "potentially inconsiderate" to "deliberately offensive".

When everything is checks with vague descriptors.

>>48415671
>It is how it works. You're not calling yourself an X friendly store you're calling yourself an X store.
So a "Guide-dog Friendly Store" is a "Guide-dog Store"?

>>48415687
I second this request for clarification.

>>48415731
That's not a request for clarification, that was me song the word between *s for clarification.

Where's the confusion.

>>48415731
No. "the gay store" is not inclusive of straight people. Just like the "straight store" is not inclusive to gay people.

If you want to be inclusive, then don't go out of your way to be called or behave exclusively.

>>48415738
Adding the word * fucking phone

>>48415738
What "rules" are you meaning, do you mean a well regarded style guide? A treatise on linguistics?
Also how does "it's how we always used to do it" excuses it?

>>48415763
>excuse it
somebody got their fee fee's hurt

>>48413660
Bookmark Wookieepedia, like you should have done on joining

>>48415763
I mean any grammatical rules you could use for writing an english paper. You know, formal English writing rules.

>How does traditional convention excuse anything?
It's the default unless you're making a deliberate choice to pick one.
Deliberately picking a different exclusive term is going out of your way to choose a term that is exclusive.

Deliberately bad vs accidentally bad.

To use an analogy, assault vs accidentally causing injury.

One of them you deliberately choose to do.

>>48415811
Y'know, on purpose.

>>48415518
If a company /exclusively/ uses "she" and I notice this to be the case when skimming the book, I'll vote with my wallet, and they won't get a cent from me.
I probably won't run their game, and if I somehow end up a player in that game it will be with pirated pdfs.

>>48415879
And I'm not some anon who doesn't support the industry. Last time I estimated the value of my rpg collection it was about 12k.

File: 6ba80abf4e44d2aa30218e02fc81ad7c.png (447KB, 660x774px) Image search: [Google]

447KB, 660x774px

>>48407942
You talkin' shit?

>>48415890
What game is that

>>48412849
There's deep systems for it, that make it play out like combat. Like, it has the depth that most combat systems would have. At least, that's how it was in WoD, and I /believe/ Exalted is similar.

>>48413240
>>48413799
Twilight 2000/2013 does this as well as a rule. It generally works fine.

>>48415890
>Hitler was elected
This meme again.

>>48414156
>Look, I agree that trans people exist and are their genders, but you don't need a fucking space on a character sheet for it. If someone wants to play a trans/nonbinary character, they can just note it down somewhere.
Why in the unholy mother of fuckness do trans people identify as trans? Seriously? Isn't the whole point to be the other gender, and not some inbetween thing? Like, it seems completely counter intuitive to say "I'm trans!" instead of saying "I'm a (fe)male!"

>>48407047
>Everyone should know going into it

I told my players (as a group) that there was only one mutant traitor commie, then told them (each individually) that they were the mutant traitor commie.

They also believed me when I told them not to read the rulebook, as I gave them the rulebook.

>>48415792
can we please keep ad hominem attacks to a minimum, I know we are on 4chan, but please, it does neither of us any good.

>>48415811
Yes but from where do these rules COME from, despite what some may say, there are a LOT of conflicting sources on what is and is not correct English.
It appears you have been taught that male pronouns as the pronouns of individuals of unknown/indeterminate gender, while my teaching do not show any such biases, and there I believe may be the root of our issue, to you using "she" is intentionally breaking a rule, while to me that rule doesn't exist.
Now I can not say for sure who is more correct, there are plenty of "rules" that some will say exist when they really don't, and common mistakes used by many, like pluralising octopus to octopi despite it being Greek not Latin (in which case the plural should be octopodes) or using whom as a more formal version of who.
If you can show me a more formalized document (like one of the ones I mentioned, but if you can find something else that would also work) that agrees with you I will happily acquiesce and be fully convinced, if you'd rather not waste time on something as trivial as this (which I can in no way blame you for) I will agree with you that "they" would have been better, but also feel that you are making a mountain out of a mole-hill and that there is no conspiracy to exclude male players.

>>48409056
> I'm rather glad because they were boring gamists who viewed literally everything in game strictly in terms of mechanics.

This is the literal reason I quit a homebrew community.

"Here's a good flaw that provides flavor to martials and rogues, but lets them have a bit of a headstart with the upside."

>"UMMMM UMMM<MMM UMMMMMMMMMMMMMM TAKE THIS AS A UMMM UMMMMMM CASTER AND UMMM UMM !?!!?!?! UMMMM FREE FEAT UMMMMMM"

Know what I do if a caster takes "No proficiency with martial weapons" as a flaw? I rip up his sheet and ban him to NPC classes.

>>48415903
Twilight 2000 second edition (Which to be fair, has a much worse setting than first edition. Only the setting is better).

>>48415941
It was a psuedo-democratic coup, really.
Mussolini though, he was elected.

>>48415945
I know people who are offended to be called by either gender, and would literally be less offended to be called "it" than "she".

They dress and look as androgenous as possible.

I know other people who would rather a neutral pronoun out of practicality because how they identify changes from one day to the next and otherwise you'd have to use a pronoun based on the clothes they're wearing that day.

And then i know Trans people who want to be called by the other gender pronoun.

I don't know any trans people who identify as "trans" though.

>>48415968
Hitler himself was appointed, there's no going around that.
People from his party did get elected, though. Several times over several elections. And then at some point they started going after the opposition to be sure they'd win and secure majority for good.

>>48415963
play stupid games win stupid prizes

File: a1ab20f3aa23ee56046eda018bc94232.png (15KB, 425x147px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 425x147px

>>48415968
>Only the setting is better
I am of the retard. Only the SYSTEM is better. Second edition had to really halfass making WW3 work after the collapse of the Soviet Union (Janajev succeeds in his coup, then he gets real belligerent for... Some reason).

>>48415979
>Hitler himself was appointed
>People from his party did get elected, though. Several times over several elections. And then at some point they started going after the opposition to be sure they'd win and secure majority for good.
I'd still say that counts as a psuedo-democratic coup.

>>48415977
Those are attention seekers. Just call them "Cunt" or "Bitch" or "That pedophile"

>>48415977
What a time we live in. Jesus.

>>48415963
I have no such document on hand and can't be assed to look for one. All I've got is my years of experience with highschool English teachers and the first year of a bachelor's in English all telling me the same convention that "he" is the gender neutral pronoun by convention and history (before I transferred to a different degree).

I've read some articles on attempted gender neutral pronouns and their origin, but again, none of them caught on.

File: Noumenon rulebook table of contents.png (124KB, 612x791px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 612x791px

>>48406597
If I can comprehend what I'm reading it's not trying hard enough.

>>48415977
Gender(pick one):
>Male
>Female
>Yes
>No

>>48416055
what the hell is that

>>48416059
>Varies
Missed one

>>48416030
It has always bugged me that English lacks a widely accepted gender neutral pronoun, so I've looked into the matter several times over the years and asked a variety of English teachers and professors.

>>48415945
A few reasons:
Because it is something that has defined a large portion of there life and has shaped who they are.
Because they know that people will jump down their throat if they don't clarify.
Because they are so used to having to clarify that they just accepted that it is less effort to just include it.
There are probably plenty more reasons, but it can get depressing thinking about some of them.

>>48415968
>Mussolini was elected
No he wasn't he Marched on Rome and was appointed Prime Minister

>>48416094
His party was elected before he did the march on Rome, no? They effectively said "Elections are for fags" after they got elected.

>>48416030
>>48416078
Linguistic inertia is a bitch, English is a bastard tongue that takes what it wants, leaves what it wants and leaves everyone confused.

>>48416078
I wish English gnps are a thing just like I wish English writing wasn't retarded, overcomplicated and arbitrary. Either with a consistently phonemic orthography, perhaps using a completely different alphabet so people can't just spell foreign imported words strangely based on how another language users the same alphabet differently, or by switching to something like the Chinese writing system where words correspond to meanings rather than sounds. Either one would be better than the shit we have now, regardless of what lindybeige says about British English spelling showing you the history of words.

>>48416085
I don't think any of those reasons are very good justification. As I said, it's completely counter-intuitive. I know someone online who, nearly first thing they say, is that they're trans. I mean, could I not have just thought you were a girl, which you want to be, and you'd be happy? How does that knowledge at all help your position? It's just nuts, really.

>>48416085
But if you want to be (fe)male and recognized as such, isn't being recognized as "trans" just accepting a label of being a completely separate category instead?

I'm not Trans, but a few friends including my best friend from highschool are. Just trying to understand this a bit better.

Man I'm glad to speak a language that doesn't even have gendered pronouns.

>>48415945
It's an extension of not being ashamed of being trans.

I mean, yeah, most trans people don't like that they're trans, and it leads to a lot of problems and a lot of prejudice that they'd rather avoid. Obviously it's something that they're not trying to make obvious, and because of how people perceive and treat them, it inevitably leads to feelings of outright shame.

And that's where the issue is, not that trans people shouldn't want to not be trans, but that they shouldn't feel shame about being trans. And so the counterreaction to that is being proud to be trans, not letting people's perceptions and reactions make you ashamed of yourself.

It's not a matter of being happy about being trans, it's a matter of coming to terms with who you are and not letting people who don't respect you control you.

More to the point, in a specific case of an RPG character, being trans could be an important part of the character, and deserve note. This doesn't mean that the character in universe would be going around identifying as a transguy or transgirl, but it's talked about on a meta level.

>>48416146
You wiggity wiggity what?

>>48416150
I get not being ashamed, but being proud of it? That's like saying "I'm so proud I have depression!" or "I'm so proud my skin is black!" It's bullshit that happened by chance. It's not like you worked so hard your whole life to be trans. No, it's something that fragged your brain chemistry, and now you're that. You should be proud of something that for all intents and purposes was just an act of god.

Pride is the fucking worst thing of the 21st century, I tell you.

File: Noumenon invitation.png (242KB, 609x789px) Image search: [Google]

242KB, 609x789px

>>48416059
Noumenon.

nou·me·non
ˈno͞oməˌnän/Submit
noun
(in Kantian philosophy) a thing as it is in itself, as distinct from a thing as it is knowable by the senses through phenomenal attributes.

Shit's fucking crazy, weirdest goddamn tabletop system you'll ever see. It uses fucking dominoes instead of dice man, fucking dominoes. I love it.

>>48416180
>You should be proud
You shouldn't be proud*
My English no good.

>>48416129
In cases like that, it can be an important think to establish.

There are plenty of people who are transphobic to some degree or another, whether actively hateful or just not really respectful of it, the point being that it's rather a dealbreaker for any sort of friendship or anything.

So from the point of view of a transperson, talking with someone and getting along with them, until they find out you're trans, sucks, and is something a lot of people would just rather avoid by putting that upfront.

It's like a filter, so they only have to really deal with people who're okay with transpeople.

>>48416111
I hear you.

But i mean, English is basically a bastardized mashup of many languages (german grammar, tons of french words, etc). A universal trade tongue, rather than any kind of legitimate singular language. Unfortunately.

Countries with less obnoxious shitty languages do much better in math and science, fun fact. Learning correct English takes so much effort that you suffer in other areas, because it's mostly fucking memorization.

I've seen this of people think something is a file in English, and then I have to tell them: no, that doesn't generalize, that's just like a dozen weeks that work that way, and it's because they come from this other language and that's how it works in that language.

Christ English is a fucking mess.

But to my original point, if you exclusively use "she" as a pronoun, that sends a political message of female preference that will prevent you from getting me to sort your product with money or endorsement to people who could be your customers.

Why not just write using "you" "your" etc? Those work just fucking fine for singular, and when you're describing someone other than the reader of their character, use they. Done and done.

>>48401676
"Tactical combat" that utilizes concrete distance units and a cover system but "doesn't require a map".

It can either be tactical or abstract, not both.

>>48416180
Yeah I don't disagree, but I'm explaining why it's the case.

Contentment and acceptance, when met with adversity and derision, become pride. When someone's okay with who they are and their way of life, and then someone else isn't okay with it, and brings this up, they become much more defensive about who they are and their way of life, and it takes on the form of pride.


And to a certain extent, you can look at it in a similar way to someone being proud to be disabled. It's not that you're proud of actually being disabled in the first place, but the fact that you can go on and lead a normal, happy life in spite of your disadvantage, which can be similar in the case of being trans.

File: Noumenon.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>48416181
Shit, meant for >>48416061
In any case, found the pdf. Knew I still had it saved.

>>48416146
What language is that?

I like gendered pronouns okay. They're useful for keeping things clear in a sentence when using pronouns, and for providing context as to the gender of the object of the pronoun.

I just don't like that we don't have any ungendered pronouns to use when you don't want to be specific, unless you use a plural pronoun or one that implies an inanimate object.

Wait.

Why don't we use "one" as a gnp again?

>>48416208
The issue is that more or less I find myself just responding with "I don't fucking care." Or, rather, some more polite derivative of that. It doesn't make for good first impressions, even though I have nothing against anyone. It's as if someone opened with "I'm black." It's just offputting.

Also, slight tangent, but why the fuck is called transPHOBIC? They're not scared of them, they dislike them. I don't like wrestling, does that make me Wrestlephobic?

>>48416238
> It's not that you're proud of actually being disabled in the first place, but the fact that you can go on and lead a normal, happy life in spite of your disadvantage, which can be similar in the case of being trans.
Then you say "I am proud that my disability has not affected my standard of living," which is a legitimate thing to be proud of. But I do tend to see trans people stating they are proud to be trans. Not that they're proud about being able to live a normal life with it, but proud that that is what they are. Being proud to be yourself is nucking futs.

Maybe I'll ask one of my trans friends why exactly they are proud, though no doubt that's going to spark some controversy.

I myself am afflicted with gender dysphoria, and I just can't wrap my head around the whole pride movement. It's a tragic mental illness that needs treatment, not a bloody major success in life.

>>48416180
>be proud of your accomplishments, not random chance factors you are born with.

This makes a lot of sense to me.

>>48416267
Eh, I always felt that gendered pronouns were unnecessary. Yeah it can clarify sometimes, but only if you're talking about two people with different genders. If any two people have the same gendered pronoun, you have the same problems.

We should have
Singular Animate
Plural Animate (they)
Singular Inanimate (it)
Plural Inanimate

And that's it.

>any mention of gender issues

>>48412546

Seems like you're the triggered one m8

>>48416222
I like not requiring a grid though.

Just give me concrete distances and cover rules, and I'll use a map with whatever scale minis we have around (likely 1 inch =5ft) and bust out a couple of Carpenter and tailoring tape measures.

>>48416272
Because Homophobia is called that. Which, yeah, is dumb. I don't know what would be better. Transism?

File: aQV1p.jpg (27KB, 575x307px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 575x307px

>>48416272

>>48416293
Maybe extend that to numbered pronouns.

So if you mention N different people/groups of people in a paragraph, you can continue with pronouns to keep them all straight.

>>48416305
I don't have a firm enough grasp on the English language to say, but it's definitely not a phobia, that's for sure. Not like the word will ever change though, seeing as it's ingrained in everyone's minds. It probably also paints those with such opinions in a more pathetic light, saying they're afraid of it instead of saying they dislike it. Stuff to make one side look better, you know.

>>48416321
I wouldn't entirely put the asshole part there. I've known people with aversions to other sorts of people, and a lot of the time they are just reasonable guys and gals, going on with their lives. Mind you, if you're loud about it, you're an asshole, but if you're loud about nearly anything you're an asshole. It goes both ways. Fuck the thought police, everyone can think what they want to think as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. You hate Italians? That's great. You hate people who hate Italians? Wonderful. As long as neither side is belligerent, I see no issue.

>>48415224
what are you trying to say here?
That witchers in the game are completely different from how witchers are portrayed in all other media?

>>48416341
>how witchers are portrayed in all other media?
That's probably because it's Polski.

>>48412546
Ha!

You forgot about the special skill for evading legitimate criticisms using a smokescreen of groundless false accusations, using guilt tactics to make other people think you're a victim and attack them for you, and manipulating the legal system through lies to blackmail people into doing what you want or to have them silenced by getting them charged for crimes they didn't commit.

I'd play it.

>>48416305
Yes. That would be a more accurate term.

Classism.
Racism.
Homism.
Transism.
Faithism?

All under the super category of bigotry.

>>48416348
The game and books and tv series and rpgs are all polski. What's your point?

>>48416348
No, my point is that witchers don't exist in anything but the witcher.
fun fact: a more correct translation of the polish word for witcher would have been "Hexer"

>>48416383
I'm saying that's probably why it's different. Eastern Euro Witchers instead of West Euro.

But then again, I don't know anything about Witchers to begin with, so I could be completely wrong.

>>48416390
>fun fact: a more correct translation of the polish word for witcher would have been "Hexer"
So I've been told by a Polish friend.

>>48416375
Hmm...

Ism can have other contexts though, a la islamism or islamist...


Classotry
Racotry
Homotry
Transotry
Faithotry

So someone who hates trans people is a transot.

That works well.

>>48416390
But witchers aren't a replacement for wizards. They're their own thing. In fact, the setting HAS wizards. And witches/hags.

>>48413240
> Your skills will increase based on what you used that session.

> I've only seen this in a homebrew
BRP does it. After each successful use of skill you put a tick next to it, after session ends you have random chance of raising that skill.
You can also train skills in game if your character have time, while using skills in dangerous situation tends to raise them much faster.

It works, but I believe it can be a accounting nightmare, to keep track of it.

>>48416267
Finnish. No need for genders when you are munching on mushrooms in a cave while running from bears.

>>48416396
Yeah you're wrong on that one.

The witcher isn't about a Wizard. There are wizards in it. Pretty sure witch comes up one of twice, too. A witcher /hexer is is own separate thing.

They're an order of mutated fighter/hunter/alchemist/magicians, who only learn a handful of basic spells that any idiot can perform through rote memorization with no actual knowledge of magic, designed by human wizards, to hunt monsters for a living and make the world after for humans.

Which is ironic given that the humans in the setting are extraplanar invaders gradually destroying a world that worked fine before they arrived.

>>48416426
Ah. I've wanted to learn finnish. I hear your words are made of modular bits and rather than make up new words and hope they catch on you just combine the bits to make the word you need. That sounds awesome, and internally consistent, and easy to use.

>>48416424
Some versions of brp lack the bookkeeping, and instead you get a roll to increase it when you crit and when you fail.

>>48416456
Yeah, it is, though I keep hearing it's very hard to learn. Thank God I grew up with it.

>>48416478
I hear it's hard to learn because it's not germanic/slavic/romance, which is the background most people trying to learn it are from.

Sadly , as a non finn, it's not very practical for me, just something that sounds neat.

Japanese and English are good for entertainment.
English, Chinese, Hindi, and Arabic are good for international business.

Anything else is just a hint unless you live in the relevant country.

Like French is useful here in Canada only because all government jobs require it, but it would be worthless in the USA.

>>48416502
Just a hobby.

How often are there words /bis that sound the same but mean different things in Finnish?

>>48416502
Yeah, Finnish belongs to this funky language group that's pretty much useless.

>>48416517
I believe Mongolian is the closest thing to Finnish.

>>48416514
Words/bits

>>48416517
Sadly, outside of Finland? Yep.

But it seems a much better designed language than most (at least to me).

Though i have a thing for finnish metal, and have considered learning Finnish just to get more of that.

I really like Tarot.

Does finnish have a lot of homonyms?

>>48416542
Not even distantly related.

>>48416542
Nope.

Uralish languages.

Hungarian, estonian, and lappish.

>>48416565
Uralic*

>>48416561
It's not about being related, it's a matter of functional similarity. Convergent evolution or whatever.

>>48416547
>Does finnish have a lot of homonyms?

>noita = "those"/"witch"
>voita = "winning"/"some butter"
>kuusi = "number six"/"your moon"
>-Kokko! Kokoo kokoon koko kokko. -Koko kokkoko? -Koko kokko.

I think people have more problems with polysemy, though.

>>48416571
Catching straws, eh?

>>48416561
Perhaps it just looks fairly similar.
Bi öchigdör ugaalgyn öröö rüü yavlaa looks very much like it could be a Finnish phrase, does it not?

>>48416595
That wasn't me.

What's the difference?

Sounds the same, means multiple things, causes ambiguity.

>speak finnish, write Chinese.
>modular words by sound
>modular writings by meaning
Best of all worlds I've heard of thus far? Perhaps.

Now I just need to move somewhere everyone speaks in finnish and writes in Chinese.

>>48416605
I'm the Canadafag with a mild hobby interest in mongols and finnmetal and Vikings. That doesn't look similar to me at all.

And isn't Mongolian written using cyrillic?

>>48415948
Life lessons

>>48416612
>Cantonese/Mandarin
>Best at anything

>>48416617
It is, but I just posted it transliterated for ease of reading.

Also, Mongol cyrillic is fucking funky as all hell. I can easily and fluently read all cyrillic, except Mongol. It's like if someone took Kazakh cyrillic, and made it have rough pity sex with the Greek alphabet, then added in the whole double vowel thing from Finnish, for shits and giggles.

Ukrainian, Belarusian, Russian, Kazakh, all fine for me to read. But Mongolian? Gives me a fucking hernia.

>>48416595
Just explaining what the guy's talking about.

And for the record, it's not Mongolian, it's Japanese. Japanese and Finnish have a ton of similarities despite not being related, that a lot of people have noticed and pointed out.

>>48415948
Were you my paranoia gm? He did the same thing.

We were on tv, we had a "wolf" wild man who made modern boxes because he didn't know what wolves sounded like, and we spent a ton of money on red "ink". To touch up the color of things we were totally permitted to have.

>>48416626
>Traditional Chinese writing system
>Not objectively the best system
You see a word, you immediately know what it means.
You need to express a concept you don't know the word for?
Draw the word based on the connotations it would have. Even if the spoken word doesn't exist yet, you can write it and people will get the idea.

>>48416633
Modem noises*

>>48416647
I love having to be an artist to write in my language.

I also love having to remember a billion things about context when writing that has no correlation to spoken language.

>>48416626
>Translit from cyrillic.

Gotcha.

Didn't realize Mongolian used it so oddly. I'm only vaguely familiar with Russian cyrillic, from school.

Mongolian also has its own alphabet , right?

>>48416672
Yeah, but it's only used in remote, out of touch villages and the like, not in big cities or anything. Well, big cities by mongolian standards.

Generally speaking, in the modern parts of mongolia they use their cyrillic, but they use latin alphabet online.

>>48416664
>An artist to write
Only if your handwriting is sloppy. If it's clean, it's mostly straight lines anyways.

Billion things about context.

From what i understand and have learned (admittedly not a ton), you learn the part's written words are made of and what they mean, and how to combine them, and then through exposure you learn the common combinations and their meanings.

What you write is perfectly clear even if people don't speak the same language as you , and you can fit a colossal amount of information in a small space.

>>48416672
Ү and Ө only appear in Mongolian, and as I implied, it is the only cyrillic language to use double vowels anywhere (Double Es, Юs, Яs, etc don't count, as they're kind of weird compound vowels.)

File: udhr_mongolian.gif (10KB, 463x310px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 463x310px

>>48416681
>3 alphabets interchangeably.
This just seems pointless, unless there's a good reason for the circumstance you'd use each.

I don't see why you wouldn't just use the mongol alphabet for Mongolian. It looks awesome, and it must work.

>>48401676
you can determine anal circumference

>>48416700
What does a double vowel in Mongolian mean, just that you make the vowel sound twice as long?

>>48404902
what part of paranoia is a great game you didnt get?

>>48405987
>>48401676

so you're saying a rpg should never compare itself to other games?

>>48416718
No clue. I presume it either makes it stressed, or just elongates it. I've also seen double vowels mixed with Й(J) which really fucks with my mind. For context, the J in Cyrillic (And slavic languages in general) is a modifying letter for vowels. AJ=Eye, OJ-Oy, etc. So aaj and ooj just make no sense to me.

>>48416708
It's harder to work with essentially, especially in the modern era of typing, and it just makes international matters more difficult. Like why they use romanji in Japan.

>>48416708
is that like mongolian arabic written from top to bottom like some fucking chinese characters?
What am I looking at?

>>48415879
>>48415886
I'm sure they'll be terribly heartbroken about this. Keep fighting the good fight, oh brave knight.

>>48416266
Yeah, but the point of Noumenon is to be a surreal mindfuck. It's to the point that the book explicility reveals to the GM ultimately that much of the weird shit that happens actually has no meaning by default, and that whatever the players make of it is what it is. Normality is the same way. Being confusing as hell is part of its premise.

>>48416764
Eh. It's potentially a couple of grand they're losing out on for that choice, just from me.

>>48416751
Traditional Mongolian script.

It's is own thing. No idea if it has Arabic influences or not, certainly possible.

Looks pretty though.

>>48416735
That's too bad.

What the fuck is all this bullshit ITT? I've never seen most of it anywhere and your whiny bitching is baffling for people involved in what's meant to be a creative hobby.

>>48408736
Ego integrity is still relevant to the majority of people (of which not all even have easy access to resleeving, see /tg/s favourites the Jovians) and "feeling male/female" despite the morph is part of the ego. Actively ridding yourself of all that is more extreme Fringer or even Exhuman than mainstream.

>>48416793
The categories of topics covered in this thread are broadly scattered.

"It's a what don't you like" thread.

You're gonna have to be more specific if you expect anyone to know what you're bitching about.

>write for a hobby invented basically *by* male nerds mostly *for* male nerds
>using she for GM

retarded SJW assholes. i just can't stand these people.

>>48415750
anything that is not exclusive is by nature inclusive enough to get in on. you just dont bent over backwards to pull some other people in. if they wanna join it's fine, if not - suits me also.

>>48416809
>alienating many in your main customerbase in the process of writing to appeal to people outside of it by writing in a way that excludes your main customer base

Yep. This is a stupid thing to do .

>>48416821
>you can't write using "he" even if it is grammatically correct because that excludes women!
>somehow choosing to use "she" doesn't exclude men.
Gimme a fucking break.

No, either it goes both ways, or it doesn't go either way and you should follow proper grammar.

>>48416764
>>48416809
Evidently I'm not the only one not interested in this shit.

>>48415792
>mad about pronouns
>crying over guys being "excluded" because of female pronouns when a fairly large number of guys play female characters
>lolurmad equivalent response

I pity you and the two human beings you ever interact with in a non-anonymous fashion. I don't give a fuck what pronouns a book uses so long as they aren't making up retarded Xeirself crap. Maybe you should grow some thicker skin instead of whining about being "excluded."

>>48416852
yeah, I'm not going to pass by the book automatically though. if there is one thing I HATE more this shit, then it's politization of fucking everything these days. I want real world politics outside of my hobby, dammit. granted, it's mostly the sjws fault but I just don't want to be as retarded as they are. if it's a good book, I'll buy it anyway and probably mostly forget about it during use.

but it's definitely a negative for me.

>>48416751
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_script

Came from sogdian. Which comes from syriac, which eventually shares Aramaic roots.

Not based on Arabic script, but it does share a common ancestor way way back.

>>48416870
see >>48416809
and >>48416873

>>48416870
>Maybe you should grow some thicker skin instead of whining about being "excluded."

Go and tell that female gamers. In the meantime, I'm delighted to get your confirmation that male pronounds have never been a problem that required fixing. Welcome aboard, Anon!

>>48416873
The political statement it makes and the implication that they value their potential female customers far more than their existing male customers (ie me) is what will prevent them from getting my money. (though i may pirate the books of someone else wants to run it).

and as mentioned, I like to *collect* rpg books. I even buy some to read with no intention of ever actually playing them, just for ideas or entertainment.

It doesn't really make me angry, but it does make me lose any respect i had for your company, and not want to pay you money for your shit behavior.

>>48416888
>literally complaining because something doesn't use their pronouns, and uses a different genders
They have literally become what they're complaining about.

>>48416870
You want to make a political statement by being lucky about your pronouns?

I'm more willing to buy a book by any given author if xe writes like that than if she writes like that.

If you're going to make a political statement at me in an insulting dismissive way, don't be surprised if I'm not willing to buy your shit.

What if I write an RPG that uses a couple of example characters throughout the book, and always use the pronoun in the rules explanation depending on the character I'm going to use in the relevant example?

>>48416906
>Illiteracy.
Good job, anon.

>>48404487
L5R 4E good, though.

>>48401676
>It encourages the use of X cards

>>48416933
Do you have an even mix of male and female example characters and alternative between them fairly evenly?

If yes, then your attempts at "inclusiveness" have probably succeeded, rather than deliberately excluding the other sex as a political statement.

>>48416906
>clearly has no idea what people are complaining about

>>48416955
The letter "S?"

>>48416412
exactly. That's what I was saying.

>>48417022
Cute, and partially correct.

+1.

I keked

>>48416906
really shitty bait

>>48416933
Is the GM a he or she?

>>48417022
About the intention behind doing so, yes. Faggot.

>>48417206
>Is the GM a he or she?
The GM is always a (you).

>>48417229
Works for me, assuming alternating example players as suggested
>>48416946.

Now the game just had to be good

>>48416946
So you're underrepresenting male gamers?

>>48414306

...that is a magical amount of fuckup and makes me almost appreciate CGL 'editing'. Almost.

>>48417274
I don't expect proportional representation based on market share, I only expect equal representation.

Or neutral language.

>>48413362
Sorceror is the game you are think of written by I think Ron Edwards.

>>48406091
You sound really cool. :^)

>>48417338
Because roughly proportional representation would not be "inclusive"? Because anything but roughly equal representation is excluding the other sex as a political statement? What kind of SJW shit are you trying to sell me here, Anon?

>>48415398

A lot of games that do it I've seen tend to use the gender of the iconic character for that area. So if the iconic wizard is a female, they'll use female stuff for spellcasting rules.

>>48406008
We have a winner.

>>48417360
I'm not trying to sell you anything.

I'm just not satisfied with being excluded from the book entirely, and won't give them my money if i am.

Once I've got equal inclusion, that's good enough for me. Less than that, is not.

>>48417414
In other words, your feelings are hurt and you respond exactly like the stereotypical feministas you hate.

>>48417414

So you expect no woman to ever buy a book that doesn't use female pronouns?

>>48417414
What about minorities? Do they too deserve equal representation?

>>48417414

Should we also paint your book blue so you know it's for boys?

>>48408048
>A separate space on the character sheet for sex and gender.
Agreed. Never design a system around an exception.
Have a Sex/Gender line and the player can enter "Woman" or "Male/Helicopter" if they want.

>Magic that is not identical to any other form of dealing damage or has effects that cannot be replicated via mundane means.
This is a stupid opinion.
Arboreal Entombment could technically be done with mundane means, but the target would have to stay still for a few dozen years.

>>48408922
>It's the 21st century gramps, everyone relevant is agreed that this is OK.
40 keks/10
Funniest damn bait I've seen in a long time, even if you meant it just as a joke and not necessarily bait.

>>48413555
>GM then spends 10 minutes explaining what they are, with assistance from the other players. Someone pulls up a picture of one on Google.
That is them failing to resist the urge to engage in unnecessary info dumping. No creature needs that much time to explain.
Unless, you're an idiot and they have to keep rexplaining it.

>>48413660
>They still all mock me for assuming that "Bifty" was an alien race, when it was actually the name of our contact.
That's just playing with infantile asshats.

>>48417431
Don't hate feminists. When they're completely pandered to go the point that they're avoiding even mentioning men i do feel a little insulted. I don't pay people to insult me.

>>48417433
Many might, but enough of them have made a stink about wanting non male pronouns that they're getting it, and so long as it's not written so much for that crowd that the company is largely excluding/ignoring me as a customer for them, then i don't care.

>>48417435
Umm. No. Because there are no standardized pronouns for that. And if you're going to redesign English to be more inclusive you can just make a single set of neutral pronouns and use that.

>>48410734
>That is different. I can see some problems, and some ways to solve those problems, so I'll wait for a detailed explanation before judging it.
I like you.

>>48417440
No, but your ugly hot pink and neon yellow book isn't going on my shelf, it looks like 90s pop chick vomit.

>>48417462
>This is a stupid opinion.

This. Also: no necromancy.

>>48417521
>equal representation
I meant more regarding character art.

>>48404487
Name me three examples. Because I can't think of any.

>>48417582
Oh.

Variety is nice. If you've got minority players you want to cater to a bit go nuts.

If your game set in NotEurope has no white people, or white people are only depicted in degrading torture/death /slavery images, then I might also pass on buying it.

>>48417594
Shadowrun, D&D, Pendragon. The 4th edition of all was highly divisive.

>>48415945
>Why in the unholy mother of fuckness do trans people identify as trans?
I suspect it has more to do with flag waving rather than how they actually identify themselves as.

>>48415977
>I know people who are offended to be called by either gender, and would literally be less offended to be called "it" than "she".
You know some easily offended idiots.

>I know other people who would rather a neutral pronoun out of practicality because how they identify changes from one day to the next and otherwise you'd have to use a pronoun based on the clothes they're wearing that day.
If you're trying to be androgynous or flip genders daily, I'm going to default to their name ang singular "they".
If anyone was offended by that(which to their credit, your second batch sound like they wouldn't be) I'd give them an inane, arbitrary nickname, like "Shamblin' Tater", and exclusively call them that.

>>48417615
4e shadowrun best shadowrun.
5e is still pretty good though.
4e gurps best gurps.

>>48417618
Either group of them would be fine with "they" and their name (assuming you went by their preferred, self selected gender neutral name instead of the one they were born with).

>>48416696
Sounds like you're really yearning for that Heptapod language.

>>48416426
>Finnish. No need for genders when you are munching on mushrooms in a cave while running from bears.
I laughed at this.
You may be interested to know that in a slow thread a while back, we determined that all of tg, and possibly 4chan as well, was just one drunk Finn talking to himself.
I provided the photographic evidence.

What do people have against using they as a singular pronoun again?

>>48417666
Because some people in the 19th century got all upset about it, because they were Latin fetishists. From there it made its way into the public schooling system.

>>48417666

They feel that it's rather impersonal/treating a person as a thing Satan.

>>48417666
Supposedly its confusing and wrong.
They're just being obnoxious.

What do people have against using 'one' if they is unacceptable, again?

>>48401676
>The bestiary includes a common real-world animal whose stats are impossible on the best of days.
"Wait, wearing full plate only gets me an Armor of 65, why is this crab 100?"
>Some extremely specific but crucial detail regarding the rules has been omitted by mistake.
"Uh, what's my movement speed? How do we calculate movement speed? Where is the section on moving in combat? Out of combat? Hello?"
>The developers ignore questions related to specific rules that would only take a moment of eratta to fix.
"Why was I banned? I just wanted to ask something about the Witch class!"
>Art direction by /toy/.
"What is with these pictures? Is that a Ken doll with tinfoil glued to it?"
>Book concludes without providing a sample character sheet.
"Guess I'll just have to draw my own..."
>Book ends with "for character sheets and other resources, visit HTTP://www.(neither game or company name).com/(company)/(game)/sheets
"This URL sold to a porn site ten years ago."

>>48417707
>Art direction by /toy/.
Is anything other than Cyberpunk V3 guilty of this?

>>48417677
It's funny that the vast majority of Latin speakers would have spoken a loose and casual version which the 19th century academics would have hated.

>>48417707
>>Book ends with "for character sheets and other resources, visit HTTP://www.(neither game or company name).com/(company)/(game)/sheets"
>This URL sold to a porn site ten years ago."
Got an example?

>>48417728
They don't want Roman Latin, they want Catholic Church Latin!

>>48416217
>But to my original point, if you exclusively use "she" as a pronoun, that sends a political message of female preference that will prevent you from getting me to sort your product with money or endorsement to people who could be your customers.
Or they just wanted to do something different, and you just happen to be a tantruming little triggeredbitch.

You know, that could be it too. Hell, I'd do it just because it triggers stupid little fucktards like you so hard.

>>48417666
Some folks just can't help but be cunts now and again.

Personally, I prefer using switching off between He and She when describing different characters or their hypothetical players.

>>48417760
Not him but the only linguistics profs I've had who ever argued for the use of "she" as the neutral had feminism as their only argument, so I would also assume the reason is a political one.

>>48416584
>voita = "winning"/"some butter"

>What were you doing at that trivia contest last night?
>Voita voita.

>>48417760
>not giving me your money is throwing a tantrum
What crap is this?

I think this bait may have been stillborn.

>>48417760
>Or they just wanted to do something different, and you just happen to be a tantruming little triggeredbitch.
This was my take on it.
The one I read came across with a low key, most books use "he" so we're gonna use "she", "Yeah, she's Patty Tanager, the caddy manager, she's a she, big whup, wanna fight about it?", kind of vibe.

>>48417760
>Hell, I'd do it just because it triggers stupid little fucktards like you so hard.

I do something like that. A guaranteed way to sell me a product is if it pisses off the Perpetually Concerned at RPG.net.

GamerGate The Card Game? Why yes, I'll take one, thank you.

>>48417906
>I am unable to read
You gotta be 18 to use the site, bro.

But no, it's not not giving them money. It's the retarded blanket statement that it has to be political 100% of the time, along with his insistence that he constantly spends BIG MONEY on RPGs, and they should really be sorry they've upset him so

>>48415412

Pitch a fit? No.

Respect it and cater to you? That's a little different...

>>48417859
>Welcome to uklokukulu, the finnish trivia show where you too can win lots and lots of butter! Participation prize: margarine

>>48418020
>As always, the loser will get knifed!

>>48416404
> Faggotry

File: your fluff is wet and sticky.jpg (3MB, 4288x3216px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 4288x3216px

>>48401676

>>48417909
>different pronouns for sake of being different
Kek.
I've read devposts talking about how they're more inclusive now because of their she pronouns whilst trying to get a part in the back.
Been a while though. Was that white wolf? I can't remember which company it was anymore.

At this point the idea of anyone doing this for non political reasons is laughable.

>>48417959
People will assume such a thing is political, and 999 times out of 1000 they'd be right, whether the author admits it or not.

Voting with your money is pretty legit. Why should you support something you think is stupid?

Mentioning that you do in fact spent money on rpgs? Probably preemptively cutting off any "you're just a broke pirate anyways" comment to avoid wasting time.

Does the company care? Certainly not about the one guy, but if there's a bunch of them, and they know why they won't but their products, the company might.

Though from what i understand rpgs are a lean market to begin with. A dozen consistent customers might actually matter to them more than in larger markets.

I didn't see any indication in his posts that "they should be sorry" so much as "this is dumb and i won't pay you to do it, and in case you are wondering i do actually pay for rpg products"

File: snowflakes.jpg (3MB, 3216x4288px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 3216x4288px

>>48401676

>>48418039
Bahaha.

Missed that one.

Faggotry redefined as someone who unfairly descriminates against gays/an anti-gay bigot.

Yep I'm good with it .

>>48417735
No, that one was a joke anon.

>>48418049
>>48418086
>posting random photos of a rulebook or something
Where are these from.

>>48418108
Ultimate Psionics, a third party splatbook for Pathfinder.

Probably cheating a little bit, since they aren't a game of their own. Though, it has a lot of mechanics the core game doesn't. There's a spell called Mindrape, IIRC.

>>48412480
It's a detailed set of mechanics for resolving social encounters. An example is Burning Wheel, which has an in-depth debate system where you choose what kind of rhetorical technique you're going to use (anything from calm rational debate to personal insults to angry ranting to total non-sequitur), use some rules to determine how those interact with each other, and generally treat it like a round of combat. The ultimate goal is to convince the crowd watching of your point of view.

It doesn't have to be that complex though. Fate has social combat, but much more simple. A good rule of thumb is to compare your social rules to combat rules - if there is a drastic gap in complexity, then likely the game doesn't have social combat.

>>48418144
Its one of the better books for the system, and has better balanced options than and if the paizo books so. What's your issue with it?

>>48418184
Mechanically speaking it's alright, but the fluff is horrific.

>>48418198
Oh. Fair enough. Tbh I haven't even read the fluff in there, skipped it and went straight to the Mechanics.

>>48418198
What's so terrible about it ? The two excerpts you just posted are merely not very interesting, and the Elans are a bit cringe-inducing with how perfect they are, but I don't see anything "horrific".

>>48418223
Are you sure? There's better writing on deviantart, and I'm not talking about the good things you can sometimes find on deviantart.

>>48418239
>Vulcans
>psychic supermen
>spectacularly cringy
I think you just have really high standards.

>>48418255
That's probably true. I'm still pretty new to all this, and I don't think I've gone deep enough to soak up the weird stuff too well yet.

Nevermind, then.

>>48418239
The writing is really just mediocre. Nothing remarkable about it.
I'm used to using translated rulebooks since I live in France, and the French translation of the Pathfinder core rulebook is immensely cringier than this. Flows terribly.

>>48401676
>the cover says "Dungeon World compatible"

>>48418279
You want cringe, read this shit.
http://www108.zippyshare.com/v/xUcae5vL/file.html

>>48402823
>any PbtA game

>>48418107
I'm saddened now.

>>48418375
Good lord, you can smell the political lesbianism from here.

>>48413643
I'd like to counter that with games that include things everyone knows about, but exclusively uses made up words for them.

Same goes for setting that have something normal with a tiny insignificant alteration and a made up name. Oh yes, Meples? Yeah they're like cows but with a tiny elf horn on their fore heads.

(Sadly I can only think of examples from homebrews for the latter. My one former friend's was particularly egregious because he also included the real world actual names for exotic shit. So you'd have this fruit is which is a lot like an apple, but with yellow spots. And this extremely specific example of a roman helmet named after the battle field it was discovered in.)

>>48415398
From my memory, D&D 3.5 seems to switch between "he" and "she" between specific rulings. It's a bit clunky sometimes, but I'm pretty sure those books are from before "they/them" as gender-neutral pronouns were in common parlance.
>>48416059
>>48416066
Sarcastic or not, this pretty much covers it. It would, however, just be easier to put a blank "Gender: ________" space on the sheet.
>>48416180
I'm not trans, but two of my best friends are, and the way I see it is that it's not proud of being trans, it's being proud of your accomplishments DESPITE being trans and facing derision, bigotry, and violence, and saying you're proud to be trans is quicker. Okay someone already explained this but I spent so long typing it I refuse to delete it.
Side note: /tg/ is a really reasonable board. I don't think a discussion even tangentially involving being trans could've avoided totally derailing for this long on any other board.
>>48417677
>>48417728
Ending a sentence with a preposition is the same thing. It's perfectly fine, when writing a sentence, to put a preposition after.

>>48418987
>Side note: /tg/ is a really reasonable board. I don't think a discussion even tangentially involving being trans could've avoided totally derailing for this long on any other board.
It used to be significantly better about that, actually. /tg/ had a repuatation for having reasonable conversations about anything and everything (sadly people took that to mean they could make threads about anything and everything, which is where /tg/ started to decline). I guess it's still pretty reasonable for a 4chan board, though I feel that's a low bar to clear.

Then again 4chan as a whole used to be a lot more politically moderate (also predominately liberal). It was easier to have political conversations without stuff degrading to a shouting/memeing match.

>>48417760
You see, that's what I meant by intent. This is what would make me boycott that gameline too.

>>48419357
As the number of users increases, people feel like they have to be louder and more abrupt to be heard. Even though that isn't true on the internet, and is only true when face-to-face in large crowds.

>>48417760
Addendum: would you add -4 STR for women too to trigger female gamers?

>>48416424
>checking a box is hard

Go play Fiasco.

>>48416897
You say that as if it's possible I somehow wasn't aware saying I don't care what pronouns were being used includes male pronouns being fine. I just don't give a shit whether they're referring to a hypothetical man or a hypothetical woman in an example. It literally does not matter at all, and people who think it does need to get over themselves.

>>48419915
And again: the wording does not matter. The intent does. And the intent behind la "she, the GM" cannot be good.