I really don't see the problem

>>48389918

I think there was a topic about this before but it is dumb you don't see Lasguns upscaled for Space Marine use. You'd think it'd be a relatively simple thing to do.

>>48390369
Isn't that what a lascannon is?

>>48390369
They don't need to, they have bolters.
Lasguns aren't used because they're the ultimate xeno-stopping weapons. They're used because they're powerful enough while being easy to manufacture, maintain and supply.

Marines however, don't need to worry about those things very much, and so they use bolters.

>>48390369
But bolters are extremely devestating and have a lot more of a fear value then a laser beam. Seeing your buddies head explode and shower you in brain matter will make you want to flee a lot more then a seeing his head get a hole burned through in a split second and flopping over. Space marines are shock troops and want anything to maximise their shock value, thats why they use gaint explosive rounds to fuck everything up in a spectacular fashion. I think.

>>48389918
What is the excat problem you're refurring to man? Care to elaborate cus i dont get it? Its legal to take a lascannon as a marine, so whats the problem?

>>48391410
That's not a lascannon, that's a multilaser!
GOTO REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>48390369
Hellguns and Hotshots, which are the next stage, aren't as devastating as bolters. Bolters not only penetrate, but explode the target and basically vaporize the entire organ content of the enemy's torso. Lasguns, multi lasers, and lascannons just blow a hole through something and maybe make it explode.

>>48390369
Bolters are just plain better than an upscaled hellgun. What I wonder, however, is why we don't see Scout using those kind of weapons.

>>48390369

Isn't that what marine sniper rifles are?

>>48391912

No, Stalker Pattern Bolters act as sniper rifles

>>48391661
>>48391377
>>48391371
>>48391214

The power and abilities of bolters and las weapons are as dependant upon who your asking as anything and considering the fucking nightmare monstrosities that exist I don't think an Dark Eldar would be any more put off seeing one of their own explode into a chuck of meat sans being vaporized (they might even get off on the thought later, you never know).

If it works it works, at the very least I would consider giving upscale masterwork las weapons to the scouts along with their other armaments.

How many people could I piss off if I replaced one of the LCs in my Devastator squad with a multi-laser?

How many people could I piss off in a tournament if I wrote "ML" on the army list and they thought it was a missile launcher but it was actually a multi-laser?

So, SM use bolters because they're far less in number and have priority in resupplies so they can do the really though shit while the IG keep to mass produced and reliable lasguns.

So, what would it take for an Astartes Chapter to have to start using astartes-pattern lasguns? Assuming that their manufacture is a fairly simple endeavour for any tech marine or techpriest attachment, it's just usually not bothered with.
And also, would there be any benefits to a las-specialist chapter?

>>48394510

Basically they'd have to have no way of making bolt rounds and bolters and nobody willing to resupply them, but have access to lasgun technology or production.

Even though bolters are supposed to be this rare and high level of artisanry, it never seems like marines have a shortage of bolters. Even hobo chapters like the Carcharodons can create/scavenge enough to keep stocked up.

>>48394510
>And also, would there be any benefits to a las-specialist chapter?

No, because the lasgun is inferior to the bolter according to the lore. A chapter full of lascannon marines would be extremely good though, but the lascannon is too slow. Star Phantoms and DA are sort of like this. The former spam melta, plasma, plasma cannons, and multi meltas on everything, and the latter have lots of ancient high power guns and lots of plasma. Would you really want a chapter of super soldiers in power armor running around with downgraded IG cannon fodder level flashlights?

lose AP4, gain a point of strength

honestly, I'd rather have multilasers instead of heavy bolters most of the time

>>48394606
Does lasweaponry have any niche though? Not necessarily damage, but range, accuracy, speed?
At best I suppose a las specialist chapter could send entire companies into areas with no support for months. Surviving off of scavenged nutrients and what their armor holds. They just keep recharging and swapping charge packs as they move in hostile territory.

>>48394665
>Does lasweaponry have any niche though? Not necessarily damage, but range, accuracy, speed?

Yeah, it has infinite ammo due to being recharged in the sun or a campfire or any heat source, and it is easy to make and light weight, and also it can be charged to be hotshot las which is stronger than bolters (see Militarum Tempestus who use it on this setting all the time).

If marines didn't have plasma or heavy weaponry, they would make good use of overcharged las weapons.

>>48394665

That's a waste of a space marine chapter. You're sending them to do a job normal humans can do. Jobs that require the use of such a valuable resource such as a marine would need bolters, or even stronger weapons. For example, clearing a space hulk, capturing a fortress or planet, or killing other marines. You don't waste a bunch of marines by giving them lasguns and have them shooting at pigeons.

>>48394665
>I suppose a las specialist chapter could send entire companies into areas with no support for months.
regular chapters can already do that, though

at best you're just making poverty raven guard

>>48394510

I suppose the main thing to pin down is what would constitute Astartes level Las weapon.

Perhaps it would be stronger but more stable then hot-shot but also have to be Marine hueg to pull off?

>>48394680
So, the "zero support" scenario is about all that las specialists would have going for them. Fair enough suppose.
I did like the idea of LASER MARINES though. Might fit well with the Conservators.

>>48394704
How do other chapters do that then? They can't just eat scrap metal and shit bolter rounds.

>>48394721
Drop pods of supplies.

You fire a few drop pods with ammo a few of the turret versions to keep the pesky ig and enemy forces from borrowing it before you get there.

>>48394721

Chapters with zero support still do just fine without lasguns. See Marines Malevolent and Carcharodons.

Why don't they use Hot-Shot Volley Guns? Or why can't they get them?

From a gameplay perspective, and as a primarily stormtrooper player, I get it. But it's as strong as a bolter yet way fucking better at killing other Marines through their armor (which is something certain loyalist chapters need to do on a frequent basis).

Shouldn't they be able to get those?

>>48394721
>How do other chapters do that then?
by not being shit

kayvaan shrike fought a TWO YEAR campaign without resupply

>>48394971
Yeah but, how? That was literally the question being asked.

>>48395058

Chapter forges and scavenging.

>>48395058
By meleeing / using enemy supplies against them.

Depending on your enemy this is a viable strategy e.g. traitors or xenos that use technology. A little harder when it's orks though they tend to produce lots of data and explosives it's not of the same quality, but then quantity is its own quality. Nids is next to impossible unless you are have sting and using the digestive acids but then they will just plot armor evolve themselves.

>>48395057
Well that just seems like hyperbole now.

Fuck it, lasMarines spend decades without resupply. No ammo pods, ships in orbit, nothing.
Shove a company waaay behind the galactic lines where you could put anyone else, where you will likely be unable to access the entire system for months if not years, and you give them a mission to take single important point or just keep the entire planet destabilised until they can be relieved.
Meanwhile the IG and other chapters are a few systems away slowly pushing the line forward when they finally reconnect with the lasChapter over five years into the campaign and find the enemy was denied supply drops from this planet because of the continuous harassment the lasMarines had been giving them, or they'd ensured an archaeotech bunker had remained sealed despite everything, and now the the hungry and exhausted marines can recover and build up bodily reserves before being again sent somewhere where the Imperium wouldn't otherwise be able to effectively touch.

>>48395167
Sounds like something Alpha Legion would do.

>>48394704

>poverty raven guard

Space Marine Kids going door to door, selling Emprah's Best brand candy bars so they can get basketball uniforms and stay out of trouble.

>>48394510
The biggest problem that I've seen in the lore is that lasguns are too flimsy for Space Marines - they don't do much damage, and they can literally break them if they squeeze too hard. If you start making it out of more durable materials and upscaling it, it's no longer near as cheap.

>>48395057
In a BL short story by Dan Abnett, an Iron Snake distracted an entire continent of orks for fifteen years, alone

>>48395167
>Well that just seems like hyperbole now.
why? Just use your knives, scrubs.

>>48389918
I feel like this is supposed to be bait, but I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

>>48394944
>to keep the pesky ig and enemy forces from borrowing it before you get there.

>GUARDSMAN, COME HERE
>Yes, my lord?
>THAT IS AN INTERESTING BOLT PISTOL YOU HAVE THERE.
>...Thank you, my lord.
>TELL ME, WHERE DID YOU GET IT?
>...It was a gift from my uncle, my lord.
>IS THAT SO?
>Yes, my lord.
>IS THAT WHY YOUR BOLT PISTOL BEARS THE SYMBOL OF ULTRAMAR ON IT, AND WHY IT IS CLEARLY DESIGNED FOR THE HANDS OF AN ASTARTES?
>...Uh...no, my lord. That "u" symbol is for "Uncle."
>OH REALLY?
>Yes, my lord.
>TELL ME, GUARDSMAN, WHAT WAS YOUR UNCLES NAME?
>...my lord, I don't see how that's...
>BECAUSE THE NAME ETCHED ON THE POMMEL OF THE GRIP HERE CLEARLY SAYS "GAUIS CASSIUS, 4TH SQUAD, 5TH COMPANY."
>...yeah that's it...
>DO YOU KNOW WHAT MY NAME IS, GUARDSMAN?
>...no?
>HANG ON, LET ME GET OUT MY TAGS FROM MY POWER ARMOR
>OH, WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT
>MY NAME IS GAIUS CASSIUS, 4TH SQUAD, 5TH COMPANY OF THE ULTRAMARINES
>...what a coincidence, my lord. You and my uncle would have gotten along famously

>>48395254
I don't really like how Abnett does Space Marines. Way too superhuman, to make up for how awesome his IG are.

>>48395540
My sides.

"U is for Uncle"

Personally I think lasMarines would be a fun chapter to make, each marine is walking around with a multilaser, with HS packing lascannons.

>>48395740
But can they vanquish the hellish might of a mirror?

If Eldar can afford one Scatter Laser per bike, Marines should be able to afford one per their biker. And Guardsman should get one per Rough Rider. And Necrons one Tesla Destructor per Tomb Blade. It's only fair.

>>48395912
Ahhh our arch nemesis the mirror people of mirroiros IX , the first time that thunder hammers were deployed to the entire 1st Co.

>>48394445
A lot because you'd be breaking the rules?

Would have been nice for FW to even as a joke give 30k Marines multi-lasers as an option. But then they'd have to make models for them, and they're not wasting resources on that.

File: ArcLite.jpg (55KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 250x250px

>>48399614
>FW
>wasting resources

Yeah, they're second only to GW in terms of lean engineering, shrewd business acumen and due diligence ...

>>48396439
>the rules

If someone wanted to model multilasers on Marines they'd costed as HB specs in their list, my reaction would be favourable. With the amount of baggery players learn on the internet, creative modeling is probably near the LAST thing to raise a red flag with me.

>>48395167
Hey, this kind of mission sounds like Alpha Leg..*erhm* No other chapter !

>>48394510
>So, SM use bolters because they're far less in number and have priority in resupplies
SM use Bolters because Emperor willed it

>>48394581
They're rare and expensive enough that equipping guardsmen with them would not be practical, but marines are few in number and have access to better than average manufacturing equipment, so they can quite easily maintain a steady supply of bolters and ammunition.

>>48395058
Well, according to one of the Salamander books, the Marines Malevolent just steal supplies from where ever. In the book, a squad of them find a derelict AdMech ship and steal all the supplies on it, including some relics from the Salamanders (which doesn't go over to well). It's also noted that their armour is in a state of disrepair and is made up of several different variants.

>>48395195
>>48395540
Both of these posts are strong

>>48395614
Seems best way to do it. They are mean to be rare and superhumanly strong.

>>48395540
>SO, GUARDSMAN, ANYTHING TO SAY IN YOUR DEFENCE?
>Well-
>IT IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE, BUT I HAVE NOTICED YOU DID NOT ANSWER TO ONE OF MY QUESTIONS, AND MUST ASK AGAIN ONE LAST TIME BEFORE DEBRIEFING. SO, WHAT WAS YOUR UNCLE'S NAME?
>It was Lord General Antonius, m'lord. During the Siege of Hive Tempestus, he sent aid to Ultramarine forces locked in combat with the traitors. He charged along his men, exploiting cover and air support to demolish the lines of traitor Leman Russ tanks. His sniper rifle gave the Emperor's Mercy to every heretic it could see, and his shots sent the enemy commander back to its dark gods.
>...
>What is it, m'lord?
>DOES YOUR UNCLE LIVE STILL, GUARDSMAN?
>Um, yes, m'lord.
>IF YOU CAN, RELAY HIM THESE EXACT WORDS: "YOU MISSED ONE, MATE! WHERE DID YOU LEARN TO SHOOT?"

>>48392394
I think astartes sniper rifles are what act as sniper rifles.

>>48391912
I thought they used Needle Rifles?