/HHG/

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What would you stuff in a Stormlord?

>>48352586
My Earthshaker Cannon would perforate its rear hatch. I would teach that slutty open-topped sissy tank a thing or two about having a limp mega-bolter that can only function properly when being held down and getting reamed from behind.

>>48352586
>>48352636
Seriously though I'd probably just fill it with tacticals, any self-respecting Iron Warrior would do the same.

>>48352586
Grave Wardens. Keeps them safe from medusas, they can still shoot their grenade launchers out of it, and if any chucklefuck gets clever ideas about chainfists/meltabombs then loloverwatch with a wall of poison.

>>48352586
15 inductii, apothecary, 10 red butchers, angron, surlak, praetor

>>48352586

Serious question though - if you take one of those (or any of the other optional super-heavys) in a legion list, would it benefit from all the rules and upgrades available as a result of your legion and/or RoW, especially considering that they're able to take a space marine crew upgrade. Would an IH Stormlord gain IWND, would a BA one be able to take a pintle-mounted assault cannon for a little additional BRRRT, could a WS one benefit from Swift Action?

>>48352636
Too bad, the stormlord doesn't count as open topped for the damage table roll

>>48352786
I got a better one for you, sacrifical right of war out flanking storm lord turn 2.....cause if your running that your running an adl with coma relay swarming with cultists.

Can i using shattered legions rules for compile an army, including the Endryd Haar (World Eaters Loyalist) and Shadrak Meduson?

>>48352643
>Not filling it with 20 Iron Havocs carrying Lascannons
Absolutely_Decimated.gif

>>48352870
Do dudes in a superheavy count as stationary for shooting? I know the vehicle does, but not sure about anyone being transported.

>>48352834
I am well aware of this. That was not the point.

>>48352870
If it blows up they die. They do not want to charge. I'd rather stick them in a real fortification/trench and let the tacticools take turns getting reamed.

Then again, I guess they could just sit there jerking off, but I'd rather spend my LoW slot on something gangster like a Stormsword.

Is the legion fellblade any good? I'm debating getting one vs a glaive, and a big thing against the glaive is its point cost.

>>48353064
If you think the Glaive costs too many points, your army is probably too small. Get whichever looks cooler, even if they are good today they might be nerfed tomorrow.

>>48353084
I mean, at 2.5k points I can fit the fellblade + upgrades, whereas the glaive goes in bare.

And 2.5k is usually what I play at with my group.

>>48353093
Your group are pussies, Apocalypse or bust!!

>>48353109
Not everyone can commit to day-long matches :(

>>48353258
My last 4k game only lasted for only two turns. I think I have taught my opponent not to spend all of his points into a few units of terminators when I can just shoot them with demolisher cannons and medusas.

Just getting into 30k

I plan on playing death guard and just spamming infantry, a mix of power armor, terminators, and drednaughts. All of it foot slogging.

How fucked am I?

>>48353549
How do you feel about siciran venators?

>>48353549
EXTREMELY fucked.

>>48353588

That's very disappointing to hear. From what I've seen people just end up spamming super heavies and terminators, I don't see a point to it. I was hoping this wasn't the norm.

>>48353567

I have no clue what that is

>>48353661
Well no, you're not THAT fucked. It depends a little who and what you're facing, as well as what you're actually fielding. Footslogging terminators are usually so-and-so, some Legion-specific ones are amazing at shooting but the Death Guard ones usually benefit from transports. Tacticals and HW can drudge around a bit, just make sure to add appropriate characters to support them, like apothecaries for your tactical blobs.

Sicaran Venators are anti-tank tanks. They're pretty cool.

>>48352559
Thanks for filling in for me, Uni. I think had a dream with a plastic Spartan, or it was either a Webway War themed board game.

>>48353661
Sicaran venator's party trick is if it damages a vehicle, that vehicle can only snapshoot. The bane of footslogging lists is the typhon siege tank which fires a S10 AP2 Ignores Cover pieplate; a venator can potentially keep that pieplate from firing.

>>48353703

I might end up going with something like that to bust open armor.

I really like the idea of waves after waves of power armor getting the job done. I understand I can basically give my blob squads fnp and a 5+ cover save at practically all times.

Let's say they survive the onslaught, I'm not sure if they can actually get work done, but I love the idea of completely out numbering my opponent. I just hope I can make it work.

>>48353747
I thought that thing had Power of the Machine Spirit?

>>48353749
You can kit out most characters, including sergeants, to deal with a lot of things in some capacity, but you're still going to get your shit pushed in by artillery and true CC monsters.

>>48353549

That somewhat depends

If your running a reaping list you'll essentially need to be able to alpha strike anything that will shred your blobs off the table turn 1 or 2, or have a way of crippling big nasties like >>48353567 says. The big disadvantage of the reaping is no deepstriking, but since you can take heavy squads as troops, can now outflank entire squads of combi melta vets, and since heavy squads aren't heavy anymore you can load up on artillery, dakka dreads and tank-destroyers in your heavy support slot.

It should also be noted in a reaping list you can still take allies, who can also deepstrike, and a fortification so you can have a coms relay, so theirs nothing stopping you from drop podding in a couple squads of machine destroyer SoH vets or justaerin

On the other hand, creeping death doesn't take away your ability to DS, buffs all your missile launchers/frag grenades (including those on dreads), and gives all infantry in the open a 5+ cover save, making it one of the better hoard RoW when combined with some apothecaries and a Herald for that run/charge bonus. The no DS penalty means you can drop a leviathan/some cortus dreads into your opponents back line and thoroughly assfuck his defenses

>>48353955
>On the other hand, creeping death doesn't take away your ability to DS, buffs all your missile launchers/frag grenades (including those on dreads), and gives all infantry in the open a 5+ cover save, making it one of the better hoard RoW when combined with some apothecaries and a Herald for that run/charge bonus. The no DS penalty means you can drop a leviathan/some cortus dreads into your opponents back line and thoroughly assfuck his defenses

This sounds fun as fuck.

The reaping sounds really boring to be honest. I understand the appeal, but Its not aggressive enough for me.

>>48353926

I think I can easily off set the CC monsters, artillery could be a serious problem.

>>48354186

I also should have mentioned, with the new army list book you can take a knight as a LoW in a legion army, which some people might sneer at but the cover of book 4 is DG working in close concert with a knight, so whatever, but this now means you can an Acheron or Atropos (the two destroyer knights) to run along side your army.

And don't skimp out on robots either, with LA:DG they can take chemflamers and gain 4+++ vs poison, and in a reaping list the handler can take rad grenades and give the bots FC, so you'll shred high toughness models

>>48353715
I had a dream Abbadon was voted out of his position by the other SoH captains, Jeremy Corbyn style.

So guys i mcfucked up and bought a deimos command rhino and rhino doors. Do I make the command rhino a mars pattern and use the doors, or do I just use deimos. Alternatively, how would I convert the deimos to fit the legion door, or convert the door to fit on a deimos. Im using the salamanders doors if it matters.

>>48354614
Buy a Storm Eagle and use the doors for that.

>>48354686
Shit they match? Was planning on getting a couple eagles anyways. Thanks anon.

>>48354603
Who took his place?

>>48354774
It lasted about 10 seconds, I don't know.
Either Falkus Kibre or Kalus Ekaddon I should imagine.
Is there any reference to what those two wielded in battle?

>>48352870
>>48352898
Models shooting from inside moving transports count as having moved. Cruising speed would mean snapfiring even if the model has relentless, so Stormlord garrisons wouldn't contribute a lot to shooting.

>>48354873
It does fuck heavy weapons, but what about VOLKITE SQUADS?

>>48354838
So the vote was as about as useful as pyschic powered roller skates?

>>48354974
Then you have to shoot all the volkite ever to make it count. Fortunately Tac Support can now buy knives, and two full squads of volkite termies can shoot from the tank, which also works as a superheavy assault transport.
If you do so, then you would swap those twin linked HB sponsons for twin linked HFlamers. Bring all the heat weapons.

>>48355008
The dream lasted 10 seconds, not the coup.
>>48355080
The stormlord says 20 models fire out the top, wouldn't that only allow 10 termies.

>>48355113
Fire points are by model, not by model size. Would say havoks would be best, or heavy support squad.

>>48355113
>The stormlord says 20 models fire out the top, wouldn't that only allow 10 termies.
I too thought about that, but wouldn't it mean that it has space for 40 models (20 termies), but 20 can shoot from it?
Bulky count as 2 models for the purposes as transport capacity, but it says 20 models can shoot from the top, and that's not capacity.
As long as their arm and guns fit through the port holes they can do it :^)

>>48355113
>The stormlord says 20 models fire out the top, wouldn't that only allow 10 termies.

Each terminator is an individual model. They're bulky and thus count as two models for transport capacity, but not the use of fire points, etc. Just like IG HW teams. They count as two models for transport space, but in terms of firing out of fire points, they count as single models.

It seems the Dark Angels are getting 6 rites for wings after all, and more.

>>48354873
>>not filling it with 40 heavy flamers and going full flamer funtimes

>>48355147>>48355159>>48355180
I knew that, a troops bay sounded like some you have to fit in, but it's worded the same way as any other vehicle.
>>48355257
It suits them better as the 'standard' legion.

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>>48355257
So much more.
It's only fair that ALL legions get 6 RoWs each.
>>48355320
Only 20 HFlamers would get to shoot, but it's a good thought. Make it chem. Make it nocturne.
Or rather make it AP2 Torrent with an Infernus, kek.

>>48355321
It says 20 models can fire from there. 20 terminators is 20 models, even if they take up 40 models worth of space in the vehicle total.

>>48355320

>not filling it with BA assault cannon heavy support squads and becoming dakka, destroyer of worlds

15-30 S6 AP3 and another 80 S6 rending shots. Wew lad.

>>48355382
>Heavy
Have fun with those snap-shots.
>>48355362
Yes.

>>48355321
>>48355342
I definitely hope other legions get more rites as well, it'd be sad if each had access to just two or three specific ones.
I also hope they get more imaginative ones, not just "x is now troops", because we've all seen they can do it, Ironfire and Creeping Death come to my mind.
But yeah, DA already have plenty of non-standard equipment even though their rules are still half-way, even if others can't have similar stuff, I believe sir Bligh will compensate in other departments, maybe more special units (definitely for chaos-aligned legions) or some new rules expansions.

>>48355436
Anon is probably thinking the old super-heavy transport rules that let passengers fire as if they had remained stationary.

>>48352559
I have two copies of Betrayal at Calth, should I buy more? I don't want to miss my chance when it goes OOP.

>>48355257
I'd be surprised if every legion didn't have at least 5 rites by the time we get to the end of the HH

>>48355518
I wouldn't, 60 marines is a very good start, may want to start getting things calth cant provide depending on what you want.

>>48355518
>falling for the "two boxes of calth is a good starter army" meme

Shit lads, are we a 5's thread today?

>We White Scars now

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>>48355606
Seems like it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx8hrhBZJ98 Praise the Khan.

>>48355560
But what about more special units? Some legions, like the EC, IW, UM, WB (and IF in a way), while other legions have two (and WE effectively only have one).
Sure, those guys could argue their extra unit would be legion-wide stuff like autosimulacra and toxic melee chainweapons, but it's not like those 3-unit legions don't have any sort of extra items or anything as well.

>>48355587
Actually I'm using them has two seperate armies to play with others.

My original idea was to buy 2 of every 30k box they bring out to slowly build two equally balanced cheap plastic armies.

>>48355675
Oh yeah definitely on the more special units front, more chaos looking guys for the traitors, not sure what else loyalists could get. Maybe even some more Blackshield units? If FW doesn't forget they exist by the next book

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>>48355606
Sadly the 5quint has come and gone.
WS will have a jetbike unit, that's for sure. But what about the other one? WS5 Keshig termies OR these new Jetbike Slayer things/Revamped Jet Charriots?

>>48355778
Stormhawk cavalry, which is like thunderwolf cavalry, but White Scars.
:^)

>>48355778
Probably keshig, can't think of any other white scar exclusives being named in the books

If they're doing Jetbike Chariots, it would be a travesty to not give them to all legions, and I say this as a WS player

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>>48355803
It'd be nice for them to have a shooty jetbike unit. Remember the parthians? Horse archers famous for shooting backwards, shooting you as you pursued them, as in 180°.
So, I was thinking something like special attack bikes...but those things already seem special enough 2bh.
And yes, hawks would be a very good motif.

>>48355587
Depends on what you need. I was perfectly happy with one, but needed 10 more tacticals and after I saw the price for the individual kits, decided to get a second one. Put the extra terminators and contemptor into good use as well. Now got 20 spare tacticals I'm either gonna trade, sell or hold onto for future project, though I feel I got all the MkIVs I need.

>>48355843
I think maybe only certain legions should get the Jet Chariots. EC, BA, WS just to name a few. So long as it fits thematically. I don't think the IWs would bother with them though.

IWs are cool, so are militia with surivivors or the dark age and cybernetic augments. Fuck my life.

>>48355961
Dark compliance or ally them.

>>48355983
I must remain steadfast Unification, as an IW, I need more shafting to stay loyal to my faction. FW, release the kraken upon the IW release schedule.

>>48355993
Decimation.

Complete decimation upon us.

>>48356017
Squad morale restored.

>>48355993
You aren't being merely steadfast, you're going full painglove on this.
Keep it up and the FW will release the Fulmentarii upgrade kit waaaaay earlier than the Tyrant models.
It'll be extremely painful...for all.

>>48355993
>>48356017
>>48356032
And people say we're the masochists.

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>>48356037
People inducted in these dark times are...quirky.

>>48356032
>>48356037
It worked sadly, I'm jazzed to order some IW shoulder pads now.

I need four breacher upgrade kits and a single Dominim Ferrum construct. Followed by some rapier batteries and a fortification. Specifically the castellum bunker.

>>48356037
I don't think they're masochists, they just want it to get done quickly.

>>48355931
Nah, jetbikes themselves dont fit with armies like IW, DG, and Sallies, but they can still take them, so why not chariots?

>>48356083
How don't they fit with the Sallies?

>>48356079
The sooner it's said in stone that our release schedule is fucked, the sooner we can all go back to digging trenches and praising he artillery gods.

Based mortar shell God preserve us.

Were the Alphas loyal or not

They seem to play both sides

>>48356186
Alpharius=no
Omegon=yes

Or the other way round depending on how you feel, I feel like this is something they're going to reveal towards the end of the HH book series

>>48356134
Not sure actually, they're always one of those armies I lumped in with the rest of the "slow movers"

I guess their thing is just all fire, all the time

>>48356186
Depends, their primarchs where convinced that humanity had to completely fall to chaos with Horus winning the war for chaos to ultimately be defeated. They said Horus's inner nature would reveal himself to be pure at heart, he would then cast down all the gods and destroy the imperium in a final act of destruction.

So for sallies, if I am using the covenant of fire, should I disregard tacs/assaults for pyroclasts? I was thinking Pyroclasts in Storm Eagles with a pair of LR Achilles-Alpha holding the line for a Damocles Rhino. Praetor would be with pyroclasts, not too decked out

>>48356209
heavy flamer jetbikes yo

>>48356331
No heavy flamers for jetbikes, you can still take MM tho

>>48356197
Is there any actual evidence that either one remained loyalist? Or is it just /hhg/ speculation?

>>48356385
They can replace HBs with HFs

>>48356385
Salamanders can swap any HBolter for an HFlamer
Go nuts.

>>48356450
We know there was a schism between the two and that omegon was killed by alpharius

>>48356468
>omegon was killed by alpharius
Whaaaaaaat?
>Eskrador
Ah, gotcha ;^)

>>48356481
Yeah, one of them goes loyalist and the other goes traitor, alpharius goes traitor and ends up killing alpharius. But seeing as alpha legion fuckaries pervade all their lore, nobody knows for certain.

>>48356450
Speculation I believe, though it is telling that it was Omegon who ordered the destruction of the Alpha Legion facility that was keeping the White Scars out of the Heresy by surrounding their area in Warp-storms.

Also, on the same topic, the Mechanicum had the ability to manufacture Necrontyr warp-pylons back then....
Because that was what powered this facility, a huge array of reverse engineered Necron technology.

That tech could have come in handy later on (stabilized warp currents anyone?), but they killed all the Magi involved in the project along with a bunch of AL Marines.

>>48355342
>It's only fair that ALL legions get 6 RoWs each.

Well let's talk about instead of more chainaxes and phoenix spears. Here's what we know:

Dark Angels
- Ravenwing: Bikes!
- Ironwing: Tanks!
- Dreadwing: Destroyers!
- Firewing: Who the fuck knows
- Stormwing: Assault breachers with jump packs!
- Deathwing: Terminators!

Emperor's Children
- Maru Skara: Legion modus operandi
- 3rd Company Elite: Kakophoni shouting people off the board

Iron Warriors
- : Legion modus operandi
- Ironfire: Accurate ordnance, ride the iron fire

White Scars
- Chogorian Brotherhood: Legion modus operandi
- The Sagyar Mazan: Shattered Legion weirdness

Space Wolves
- ???
- ???

Imperial Fists
- Stone Gauntlet: Legion modus operandi
- Hammerfall Strike Force: Teleport and blind everyone with your bling

Night Lords
- : Legion modus operandi
- Horror Cult: Night Raptors for everyone

Blood Angels
- The Day of Revelation: Legion modus operandi
- The Day of Sorrow: Hold the fucking fort

Iron Hands
- Head of the Gorgon: Legion modus operandi
- Company of Bitter Iron: Immortals, fuck traitors, why did you have to die Ferrus

World Eaters
- : Legion modus operandi
- Crimson Path

Ultramarines
- Logo: Legion modus operandi
- Vigil Opertii Mission: Ultras and their human pets

Death Guard
- The Reaping: Legion modus operandi
- Creeping Death: Spooky cover saves.

Thousand Sons
- ???
- ???

Sons of Horus
- The Black Reaving: Legion modus operandi
- The Long March: Don't know what to do with all that sweet gear we've been stealing

Word Bearers
- Dark Brethren: Legion modus operandi
- Last of the Serrated Sun: Gal Vorbak and Drop Pods

Salamanders
- Promethean Cult: : Legion modus operandi
- The Awakening Fire: Scary and psychic fires.

Raven Guard
- Decapitation Strike: Legion modus operandi
- Liberation Force: Freedom fighters and the human pets

Alpha Legion
- Coils of the Hydra: Legion modus operandi
- Headhunter Leviathal: Headhunters for everyone... please? anyone?

>>48356538
So /tg/, what do you propose as new rites for the legions that don't resort to "give x unit as troop".

Also I just noticed I didn't properly put in the original rows, sorry about that!

>>48356550
A RoW that actually improves Forts for the IF.

>>48356502
The Devil wasn't mocked. It's nice that all those Alpharius origin stories are all true when you add in the fact of them being two, or more specifically, becoming split in the warp kidnapping

>>48356538
So to start with:

Space Wolves
- Unique destroyers as troops, bonus to destroyers and bringing down fortifications (yeah yeah x as troops, but everyone legion has one of those)
- Assault and tacticals get FNP++ on any turn they've run, to represent them getting gunned down by the thousand sons

>>48356561
Even Kyr IFs more than non-Dorn IFs

>>48356576
>Space Wolves
>- Unique destroyers as troops, bonus to destroyers
No >:^(
>>48356538
DG need the plague marine rite now. With assault bonuses for tactical blobs and their trench knives

>>48356538
There'll probably be a few more things like Last Of The Serrated Sun coming along: rites that maybe only represent a single company of a particular legion, rather than tactics that were employed across a legion's troops.

>>48356550

IW
Trench Sweepers or something like it, Very, very shooty at short range, a bit like Sturmpioneers in WWI, so using infiltration to get close to the enemy, something like that?

>>48356610
>DG need the plague marine rite now. With assault bonuses for tactical blobs and their trench knives
Not until it's time for the Siege, poison huffer.

>>48356651
I mean as "this rite is the only one they're lacking" rather than "right now". Kek
>>48356639
But IW pioneers would be their 20man despoilers serving as Fearless artillery spotters.
And the Corpsegrinder rite would be an Army of Dark compliance, or however that 30k Badab Tyrant army version is called

>>48356550
The Harrowing for Alpha Legion.

Everything is Outflanking and you can start bringing things in from Reserve on turn 1, but you have to have at least one Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy Support choice and you can't bring more than one of a unit.

I still can't wrap my head around how Destroyers are SW. I thought SW disliked flying and irradiating everything with rad grenades and missiles seems like something DG or IW would do.

Play Word Bearers, with Assault Squads now being better than Tacticals, should I just run this?

155: Legion Centurion-Chaplain, Artificer Armour, Retractor Field, Jump Pack, Burning Lore
60: Apothecary x1, Jump Pack
370: Legion Assault Squad 20x (+10), 4x Power Weapon, Sergeant with Power Fist and Artificer
-585-

Seems pricey, but unit has Fear, Zealot, lots of Power Weapons (Lances?), FNP and is scoring. Worth it?

>>48356538
I would like to see an Emperor's Children rite based on their perfection of combat. Pretty much
Maru Skara: Perfection in strategy
Third Company: Degradation of the legion
Other Rite: Perfection in combat

So as an idea
>Every model has preferred enemy (characters) when in a challenge
>Entire army gets fleet USR
>Any infantry unit can replace all of its existing special rules (except Legiones Astartes special rule) with one of the veteran tactics for 2 points per model

>Army may not include any units that are slow and purposeful or any infantry units that cannot run
>Army may not take any allied detachment
>Army must include at least one legion champion
>If your warlord is killed in a challenge your opponent gains D6 victory points
>Must take a legion Praetor, special character, or Fulgrim as your warlord

So you end up with an army better in challenges, with an easier time getting into assault and the option to use some nice special rules (WS 5 assault marines, tank hunters HWS, Seekers swapping marked for death for outflank and precision shots, precision shots Volkite Caliver squads). On the other hand you have to spend a good bit of points on mandatory HQ choices and if your warlord is killed in a challenge you are giving your opponent D6 victory points.

>>48356186
>>48356450
We’re deliberately being kept in the dark. Legion (the novel) had Alpharius and Omegon being told that a loyalist victory would mean a slow death for the Imperium (playing out the way the 40k setting is happening), but that if Horus won he’d destroy (most of? all of?) humanity in a fit of guilt and rage and that would starve Chaos. I don’t understand why the AL would agree with sacrificing humanity to defeat Chaos, but they seemed to go along with it. i.e., they had to help Horus win. Never mind that no one explored the possibility of a quick loyalist victory, which they could’ve helped out with.

But yes, there are strong hints that there are loyalist Alpha Legion, probably led by Omegon. They make it possible for the White Scars to escape to Terra, might’ve helped Corax escape the World Eaters (but that might’ve been so they could steal his genetech), and don’t commit themselves fully to helping Horus (e.g. not garrisoning Paramar).

Or they might be a 30k/40k Littlefinger, hoping everyone gets hurt so badly in a big war that they can swoop in and take everything for themselves. They might not care who really wins.

>>48356538

Not every legion needs 6 RoW, DA should get their unique rites in place of better LA rules and to emphasis that they have that unique structure

>>48357105
Yeah, their LA rule is nothing special. Let them make up for it in Terran pre-Crusade equipment and the wings. They’ll mostly be reorganizations of their force org chart – they should probably keep the bonuses to a minimum.

>>48357096
Because darn dirty alinum space AIDS magic, Anon. Dirty space AIDS magic. Plus the Cabal wanted it to seem like there was no other options so humanity would get booted. Despite the fact that they'd get booted too if Horus won.

>>48356538
It's hard to call Dark Brethren the Word Bearer's MO, given that it was only developed after they turned traitor. They could do with a RoW depicting the general style used prior, and which loyalist and traitor WB forces would both use alike.

>>48357172
>Yeah, their LA rule is nothing special.
Still better than plenty of legions
>Loyalist World Eaters
>Death Guard
>Ultramarines

Dark Angels have practically universal WS 5. That isn't bad by any measure.

>>48357045
That is really damn pricey, even if its pretty good.
What about tossing the Chaplain in another unit, and giving the squad the Dark Channeling ability?
Chaplain is counterintutive in the unit if given that, as he gives them Zealot, and no reason for Combat Shields if they get the Deamon rule.
Maybe just stick to Ashen Circle and hope to flamer everything and murder with Axe Racks?

>>48357289
It's very conditional WS5, not practically WS5.

>>48357172
DA are like BA in that they are sort of "wargear: the legion."

>>48356550
A crazy idea I had was for a Night Lords rite of war to represent terror/culling tactics taken against civilian populations. The enemy side would GAIN a number of Civilian squads, composed of 3-10 swarm bases. WS/BS 1, I 2, S/T3, W4, Ld 3, no save. Take the points limit of the game divided by 200, and that many bases are generated, sorted into as many 3-10 units as the enemy chooses. Every 3 bases killed coughs up a victory point, and each unit destroyed also gives up a victory point. Civilian units that flee of the board count as killed as per usual (the Night Lords have the territory surrounded, all the killing paths occupied and ready for a bloodbath). In return, each base that survives the game awards the owner TWO victory points. So the civilian's protectors have a huge incentive to keep them safe.

I could come up with some other bonuses or penatlies for the RoW, but honestly the change of introducing a hostage-y unit to the pitch is probably enough. Thoughts welcome.

>>48357048
I'd also like that, but I'm not sure how they would fit a pre-heresy RoW into the books anymore.

I assume that all we'll get from this point onward is mid-heresy Lucius/Fabius, Daemon Fulgrim and maybe another mid-heresy RoW or two (one that allows Slaanesh allies perhaps?).

>>48357045
Can't take Lances willy-nilly in 30K. Only White Scars and one Emperor's Children just get access to them.

While I'd be okay with Lances being enabled for bike/jetbike mounted characters across all Legions, honestly Lances are just a weak choice outside of en-masse deathstar charges. There's a lot I'd change about the Lance, but then there's a lot I'd change about basic power weapons as well.

>>48357310
>It's very conditional WS5, not practically WS5.
As long as you are tied you hit on a 3+. You are generally for all intents and purposes +1 WS. If your assault marines or bikers assault anything that isn't WS 5 you are hitting on a 3+. You don't even need to get the charge like several other legions do to get their primary bonuses.
You know what we say to EC and WE players who didn't get the charge? "Ha ha suck to be you, should have gotten the charge."

>>48357315
I think that would be cool if you added the caveat that your opponent must agree to play this rite.

>>48356538
>>48356639
Iron Warrior's Siege-Assault
IWs gain Crusader (combine it with Perty's Stubborn & FC_in_the_enemy_deployment_zone)
Havocs can be brought as Elites if you want
Needs to bring +2 troop choices
Needs to bring a SB/Warsmithy weber jeger man jensen/Perturabo
Can only bring IM as allies.
>>48356561
>A RoW that actually improves Forts for the IF
IF Bulwark against terror
IFs are Fearless inside Fortifications (not just any cover)
Can bring another Fort
Aegis lines can be bought as dedicated Forts for Tacticals and Breachers
No more FA than HS or Troops allowed
+1 more compulsory troops needed.

I have a bit of a dilemma now, with Assault Squads being much better, my AL Coils of the Hydra list using Raven Guard Dark Furies is somewhat unnecessary, as Assault Squads cost less and have more attacks (though not with 100% rending lightning claws) for a similar point cost.

As I already have all the models for it (including the Furies) I'll probably still build it, but what Legion unit might be a good replacement if I choose to create a 2nd variant of the list which includes Assault Squads in some of my troop slots instead of taking Furies.

>>48357289
Death Guard are Ld benefits plus dismissal of dangerous terrain. Both as a general security and as a synergestic bonus I'd say it's stands up Dark Angels. The drawbacks limit certain army builds, but then you weren't taking Death Guard for those builds, were you?

>>48357382
Mor Deythan with combi flamers could be fun, or maybe even a new ROW if you're having trouble considering a new unit to steal.

>>48356186
After steeping myself in all current facts about the Alpha Legion, these are my conclusions:

1. Alpharius and Omegon, unlike quite a few of their brothers, are focusing on Humanity's end-game, with or without their brothers, or even the Emperor himself

2. Outwardly, one is explicitly fighting against the traitors' interests, the other for the traitors' interests (this doesn't necessarily mean they fight with or for the Loyalists or Traitors)

3. To some extent, members of the 20th Legion are aware of this schism (and partaking in it)

4. The Alpha Legion may be experiencing the same fractious style of independent leadership and autonomous warband organization seen in the Night Lords, paying lip service to (or outright ignoring) Legion High Command, even developing tunnel vision where each group only focuses on creating their unique brand of strife for its own sake

>>48356057
I really like that color scheme. Like a copper/bronze/burnt steel color with black and the hazard stripes?

>>48357382
AP3 is pretty huge in powerarmourhammer. Your assault dudes would have to be doing 3x the wounds to make up for lacking it.

>>48357380
One of the things that first drew me to the Night Lords was the use of blackout tactics and information denial in their warfare. I always loved the idea of an attacker that keeps the enemy in the dark, figuratively and literally.

With that established, I like the idea of an enemy army suddenly finding they have a pack of terrified civilians on their hands. Maybe they represent useful personal that ought to be working in the spacecraft/munitions factory, or the relatives of important political allies who would be furious in their deaths. Or maybe they're just innocents that the enemy feels compelled to protect. Regardless, the Night Lords destroyed their home, and they drove the poor bastards towards their enemy knowing that it would muck up whatever plan and organisation they had. It tugs on the humanitarian's heartstrings, and it feeds into the bestial character of the fallen legion.

>>48357416
Mor Deythan did come to mind, I'll admit.

I'll have a think, these changes in point cost made a lot of options more viable.

>>48356538
tfw the only RoW that focuses on legion overseers with cult/militia meatshields requires the marines to start as reserves

Anyone have FW promo codes?

>>48357476
True, the Furies are still a very lethal CQC unit, but quite costly for the small number of models, though 10 marines all with Raven's Talons are quite deadly in combat.

>>48357368
I see your point. It does give them the edge in a lot of situations but at the same time theres a lot of units out there that are WS5+ or are WS3- and the bonus is wasted. It's not like the BAngel rule where they are practically +1S

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I've only ever met 2 Space Wolf players.

>One was an order dude 30-40
>Very loud
>Generally a good time
>Had been playing since Rouge Trader and had a poor understanding of the current rules (at the time I met him 6th edition) from all the different editions he'd played through
>Seemed a little bit of a sore loser

>Other was a straight up autismo maximo
>Really awkward kid, was quite tall and bearded
>Never actually played him
>Had some funny ideas about the game and lore

What are some stereotypes of legion players that you guys have encountered? How many players have you met who fit them?

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>>48357289
>Still better than plenty of legions
>>Death Guard
W-whats wrong with DG? A pretty cool legion that walks through dangerous terrain and doesn't afraid of anything

LA rules that enhance durability over deadlyness are like that. But at least it's not the IW's "Kill me, I can take it" rule, huh?

Or the DA handing out VPs for not roflstomping the enemy, for that matter.

>Loyalist WEs
>Mfw

>>48357568
BA are the best legion in the game. Nobody should complain about not being as good as the Blood Angels. With all the special wargear and rites DA get and are planned to get they shouldn't even get hitting on 3+ in CC, maybe stubborn or whatever.

On the topic of stubborn why the fuck did FW demote fearless to stubborn? Did anybody actually field fearless vets in the first place?

>>48357695
>BA are the best legion in the game.

I think that's a bit of a stretch. Well, it was with the old LACAL. Maybe now that assault marines are actually good the IX legion is ascended.

>>48357663
>LA rules that enhance durability
Not much. They only get a bonus against Fleshbane and poison weapons which aren't really common in 30k.

>>48357695
>Until GW shows us something different
Plenty of time for them to be nerfed in the next book. Then buffed in the book after that. Then sidegraded in the book after that. And so on.

>>48357695
>>48357736
We must be ever aware of the power creeping. The sword if double wounding is outright better than some relics, the megadakka is weird, and this is already before them getting their specific units and characters

>>48357765
>phosphex isnt common

>>48357663
I'm with you on the death guard. however, Their rules are good, but the reaping is the real powerplay for the legion.

Speaking of which, would you guys play against a BA/DG shattered legion with illastus assault cannon heavy support squads as troops?

>>48357782
Phosphex should count toward your Lord of War allowance.

>>48357786
>Speaking of which, would you guys play against a BA/DG shattered legion with illastus assault cannon heavy support squads as troops?
no

>>48357780
According to direct quotations from Bligh on the floor at FW open day the perdition blade wounds don't spill over. So basically its an AP2 sword with special nastiness for things with more than one wound. Still better than some relics, but not as bat crazy as the flat double wounds.

>>48357786
>Shattered DG Warlord brought the Megadakka as troops
I spat my poison

>>48357782
If my opponents tend to spam phosphex I just bring vehicles.

An IW list using the Onslaught FoC and using the Hammer of Olympia could theoretically take 5 HS choices, correct?

>>48357843
Shatter shells.

>>48357891
Rites can only be used with the standard age of darkness FoC IIRC

>>48357891
cant take a rite of war with onslaught

Maximum dakka:

Rask-led Shattered legion using The Reaping

Heavy Support Troops are Assault cannons to deal with any living thing

Lascannon Havocs to deal with any AV thing

Elites: Tyrants/Phosphex of your choice

FA: AP2 Seekers

>>48357663

The DG are IMO one of the best designed legions, but their bonuses are very situationally strong, not universally strong like the more offensive oriented legion rules

UM, NL, SoH, BA, WS, IH, IF rules are all much stronger then the DG because they provide bonuses to damage that the DG gain no additional defense against or are more resistance to the more common damage types then the DG

Their power doesn't come from their legion rules, it comes from their very good RoW, their very good special units, the very strong chem flamers/power scythes and the special characters that synergize strongly them.

It would be nice if they got a really universal defensive buff, like all models in terminator armour gaining +1 wounds, or them gaining some bonuses towards their prefered weapons (bolters/flamers/meltas) in the same way the SoH gain bonuses to their prefered weapons, WS gain their bonuses when going full sanic, UM gain their bonuses when working together, IF when using bolters, NL when being bastards etc.

>>48357902
>less than 1 hull point per turn vs AV 14

>>48357695
(4chan just ate my reply, grumble)
It's just a typical Forge World misjudgement, nothing too bad. Fearless was never taken because it only affects one unit, and besides, Sniper is the competition.

Changes I suggested in a previous thread:

>Resolve grants Fearless to unit, and stubborn to friendly units within 3"/in same combat

>Xenohunters allow choice of one of Monsters, Beasts and Cavalry or Bikes and Jetbikes to recieve bonus against

>Remove Outflank from Marksmen. Instead, Veteran squads pick one of the following three rules to accompany main bonus: Outflank, Move Through Cover, Counterattack.

>Represents Veteran squads that operate on fringes, forefront and core of army respectively

>>48357950
Shattered legions are opponent's permission to use. Have fun never playing that bullshit ever.

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>>48357981
>Their power doesn't come from their legion rules, it comes from their very good RoW, their very good special units, the very strong chem flamers/power scythes and the special characters that synergize strongly them.
True. Multipurpose characters, Legion specifics that don't have conflicting slots. It's nice.
>It would be nice if they got a really universal defensive buff, like all models in terminator armour gaining +1 wounds, or them gaining some bonuses towards their prefered weapons (bolters/flamers/meltas) in the same way the SoH gain bonuses to their prefered weapons, WS gain their bonuses when going full sanic, UM gain their bonuses when working together, IF when using bolters, NL when being bastards etc.
Heeeey, yeah! Bolter/flamer/melta trinity when?
>All Termies with +1 wounds
Hhnnnnng. Alas, it'd be quite unfair to everyone else.

>>48358015
>Remove Outflank from Marksmen. Instead, Veteran squads pick one of the following three rules to accompany main bonus: Outflank, Move Through Cover, Counterattack.
fuck that, sniper doesnt need any other benefit.
it should be
>fearless
>sniper
>counter attack and furious charge
>+1 to pen rolls
>scout

>>48357992
I get 5.333... If you're gonna take phospex, go nuts. And that's assuming the enemy hasn't put any points into anti-tank equipment, etc.

>>48358038
I'd say everything in the game should need the opponent's permission to use, given how the game is meant to be fun for both players.
Otherwise it'd be like playing with only yourself, and that's wanking.
Shattered legions need explicit permission to be played, but it goes without saying that Knight lists, LoWs, RoWs and double Typhons should be announced before even arriving to the table.

>>48357172
>Yeah, their LA rule is nothing special. Let them make up for it in Terran pre-Crusade equipment and the wings.

A lot of legions have 'crap' LA rules, like IW or DG or DA, they make up for it by having great Primarchs and RoW. IF for example have great legion rules but their Primarch is kind of crap and their RoWs are clunky shit.

So no, DA dont need more RoWs than other legions.

>>48358121
And yet we will get them, Bligh himself said it on the past weekend's open day.

>>48358121
Honestly I thought the Deathwing was going to be a legion specific WS5 termie unit with access to plasma cannons as Reaper autocannon replacements.
"RoWs & Toys: The Legion" is a rather divergent road FW is trying to push with them, and I don't know how that'll fit with the other legions.
And I'm looking at those Loyalist WE Rampagers.

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So I was looking at the list of Superheavies and ither optional stuff the legions could bring, and I saw the Macharius. I didn't know what it was and looked it up and I am now in love. It looks so cool!

It's like the Tiger I, the LR Vanquisher and the Baneblade had a wonderful baby.

How fluffy would it be to take on in an IW list? Also, where can I find it's stats?

So would 30 artificer marines, 5 termies and a praetor, a named dreadnought, 2 LRs, and 2 Storm Eagles be enough units on the ground at 3000 points?

>>48358170
Pretty sure the Macharius is a post-Heresy design, so not really fluffy at all. It's in IA2v2 IIRC.

>>48358084
>I get 5.333
How? A quad launcher only fires 4 str 8 sunder shells per turn. Even if you consider a battery of 3 it is only like 2.5 HP.
>12 shots
>8 hits
>Glance on 6, 1.333 glances
>Reroll failed glances, still glance on 6, 1.111 glances
>2.444 glancing hits total
270 Points (assuming you are taking phosphex too)

>>48358203
>Pretty sure the Macharius is a post-Heresy design

It was re-discovered in the 41st millenium having been lost in the Horus Heresy.

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>>48358203

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>>48358203
Yeah, but many of those alternate superheavies are meant to be Count As units. And the IW did have a DAoT manufacturing ring stolen from those Judge Dredd's Death Judges, so they could come up with a lot of superheavy designs, as disposable as their marines.

>>48358208
>How?

4 batteries of 3. I also forgot Sunder.

With 2.444... per battery, two batteries would be almost enough to reliable take down a spartan. The other two can pepper anything that comes out of it or another spartan.

>>48358203
FW specifically mentioned something like local designs. So just claim it is a domestic tank variant the Iron Warriors encountered during the Great Crusade. After they subjugated the world they stole some of their sweet tanks as they left.

Also made me think of a cool Solar Auxilia list
>2 Tank Commanders
>2 Valdor Tank Hunters
>2 Macharius Vanquishers
>3 Leman Russ Vanquishers
Dare you bring tanks into my magical realm?

>>48358170
The most recent stats for the Macharius are in Imperial Armour Apocalypse. As for fluff, the Macharius was included in the book as a standin for indigenous war machines, so think of them as perhaps Perty fucking about with building tanks instead of beepboops or walls.

>>48358282
You are spending 1080 points to kill one vehicle per turn. If I sit outside of your max range your guns are pretty much worthless. Honestly I wouldn't ever recommend shatter shells unless your opponent tends to spam rhinos.

>>48358298
>Perty fucking about with building tanks instead of beepboops or walls.
You just gave me an idea for my Ordo Reductor forces. I've always wanted to kitbash random weapons and shit into tanks, now I have my justification.

>>48358096
>I'd say everything in the game should need the opponent's permission to use
It is, as in, say "no" if you don't want to play against some cheeser's spamlist of WAACfaggotry

>>48358309
yeah shatter shells are fucking terrible. better off spending the points on actual anti tank, like laser vindicators.

Does adding a carnal sabre to a powerfist mean the powerfist strikes at I2?

>>48358345
no you retard, you have to be using the CHARNABAL sabre to gain the duellists edge benefit

>>48358160
And the other legions will get the same ammount of RoWs.

>>48358332
Correct
>>48358336
Or the new Deredeo's Exoshock lascannon
>>48358345
>carnal sabre
MMmmmmmmhmmm.
>>48358323
The IW are stated to be pals (or as close as they get to have friends) with the Ordo Reductor.

>>48358358
I am honestly astonished at how retarded some people are.
>Baw the EC relic is OP because 2++
>But its AP 3
>Just take a paragon blade

>>48358309
>You are spending 1080 points to kill one vehicle per turn.
>"two batteries would be almost enough to reliable take down a spartan"

>If I sit outside of your max range your guns are pretty much worthless.

So why even bring transports?

>>48358121
>ignoring an entire phases worth of morale checks
>bad
nigger you are stupid

>>48358336
If you already got 12 rapiers, 10pts. a pop for some S8 shots is cheaper than a dedicated anti-tank units. Nothing says you can't bring both, if you're already set on bringing those phosphex rapiers.

>>48358429
if you are bringing 12 rapiers you should be castrated.

rapiers should be a 0-1 unit

>>48358387
>The IW are stated to be pals (or as close as they get to have friends) with the Ordo Reductor.
Well my idea had nothing to do with Perty more like my Archmagos Reductor just fucking around with tanks in his spare time. Always wanted that robot special lascannon in a tank, or perhaps the Deredeo lascannons in a tank, and now I have my justification. Just count it in rules terms as the twin-linked vanquisher battle cannon or something.
>Minotaurs and Macharius Vanquishers
They told me I was mad. They told me phosphex was better. Whose laughing now? Whose laughing now?! Ahahahaha. AP 3 massive blasts everywhere! Level whole planets under the might of my guns!

>>48358460
Why not eBay up a Macharius Omega, for some downsized Titan Plasma Blastgun shenanigans?

>>48358054
...ergo none of the others do either? That's some weird logic you're using there, pal.

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>>48358460
>Archmagos Reductor just fucking around with tanks in his spare time. Always wanted that robot special lascannon in a tank, or perhaps the Deredeo lascannons in a tank, and now I have my justification. Just count it in rules terms as the twin-linked vanquisher battle cannon or something.
>They told me I was mad. They told me phosphex was better. Whose laughing now? Whose laughing now?! Ahahahaha. AP 3 massive blasts everywhere! Level whole planets under the might of my guns!
You're mad, anon.
You uncovered the secrets of shot and shell, and became lost in the feedback of the Loop of Eradication.
Lucky for you, you don't suffer madness.
You enjoy it.
Go forth, Archanon Reductor, the 48"x72"-sized template the unenlightened call "tabletop" awaits you.

>>48358489
Because AP 3 massive blasts everywhere.
>4 Minotaurs: 820 Points
>2 Macharius Vanquishers: 750 Points

>6 AP 3 massive blasts per turn
>2 Twin-Linked Str 8 Armourbane shots if I need to kill tanks
>Minotaurs are Str 9 so can kill light vehicles
>Can kill 2+ by sheer volume of fire and instant death

>>48358516
what? sniper is already the strongest of the bunch on its own.

>>48358398
>>48358358
New BRB FAQ states that you get buffs from weapons if you're holding them

>>48358561
>b-but the new poorly written faq DRAFT says
not relevant. and i doubt that it does even say that.

>>48358561
show me the page, assclown
besides, with unwieldy weapons, you add your bonuses, then go down to initiative one

>>48358560
...which is why I'm suggesting that all the vet perks can pick Outflank or another small rule to accompany it.

>>48358561
Even if that is true unwieldy overrides other rules. EC don't get to swing thunder hammers at Initiative 2 or Initiative 3 if they are charging and in a challenge. So if my opponent was that desperate to use I 2 power fists I would take a power fist and thunder hammer. I 4 thunder hammer.

>>48358623
i misread. ether way sniper shouldnt get any secondary perk.

>>48358633
Sniper may be good but I don't think WS+1 and Outflank/Counterattack/Move Through Cover is weaker than it.

>>48358444
But even Army gets rapiers. That wouldn't make any sense. Just nerf/limit phosphex itself. Personally I've found the permanent dangerous terrain thing retarded from the beginning. Just make it like the tremor shells on the thunderfire cannon, but instead of forcing a Dangerous Terrain test if the affected unit moves, force it upon them if they don't, representing them getting away from the burning stuff and putting themselves out. After that it has no other effects. That way it would be more like it should be, flushing enemies out of cover.

>>48358676
>>48358633
Also, Scout is way too powerful, the meta is already alpha-strike centric as it is. Meanwhile Furious Charge+Counterattack is a non-improvement, you can never benefit from both rules at once. WS is overall the better bonus.

>>48358444
I've been thinking, which is more needed - Rapiers a nerf, or HW squads a buff?

Say, anyone know when will the updated Legion-specifics book will be out? After Book 8/9?

>>48358714
Probably after 7 or 8 to make up for any problems caused by the new LACAL book and books 6, 7, and possibly 8.

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>>48358571
>>48358619
>>48358625

Everyone so fuckin butt blasted for no reason. Gonna be funny to see all your reactions when these rules become concrete or they get incorporated into 8th edition.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/s960x960/13147672_1610526515934648_2049823814511292620_o.jpg

>>48358706
rapiers nerfed. HW squads are fine.
>>48358699
>Also, Scout is way too powerful
its not that strong if you are giving up sniper

How valuable is t4? Would you rather have t3 a 3+ armor save and a 6+ invul or t4 and a 3+ armor save.

>>48358760
>lance ignores quantum shielding

Finally, the Eldar really needed a boost.

>>48358760
That still assumes that unwieldy would go before duellists' edge which it doesn't. But if the order of unwieldy changed I would just field the most OP melee unit in the game

>EC command squad
>5 power fists on jetbikes
>EC praetor with thunder hammer and charnabal sabre on jetbike
>Chaplain with power fist on jetbike
>Forge lord with power fist and rad grenades on jetbike

>Tons of AP 2 Str 8 attacks that strike at I 2-4 and lower enemy T by 1

>>48358810
t4 is huge. 6+ invulns are pretty much worthless
>>48358760
GW is so fucking retarded

>>48358760
Joke's on you faggot, 8th ed will do away with most character options to keep things simple, ie thunder hammers and power fists become "heavy power weapons" while lightning claws, power swords and axes become "power weapons" and chainswords, combat knives, etc are just "melee weapon" which, to be fair, they already are.

source: your dad's dickhole

>>48358823
I mentioned the FAQ in respect to the EC relic --someone mentioned it being shit cos it's AP3, but by the FAQ you can bring the lucid blade and a power fist and have a 2++ praetor with S8 AP2 at I1. Rulebook is pretty clear unwieldly always wins in the end.

>>48358859
well relics are permission only now, so people just wouldnt play it.

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>>48358836
Anon, I don't understand your rage

>>48358859
Yeah, otherwise an EC powerfist would attack at I1+ assault bonus + duel + charnabal = I4

>>48358885
The way I see it working is by duelist edge you get +1I for fighting in a challenge but then because you chose to attack with the power fist/t.hammer which has unwieldy your initiative is bumped down to I1 anyway. Per RAW you are still getting the benefit of the duelist edge, but the fist is just dumping you down anyway and the result is the same as if you didnt have the sabre.

>>48358783
I dunno, HW squads are outclassed by Iron Havocs, Kakophoni and Grave Wardens (ie legion-exclusive variants) at the minute. Outside of the Death Guard RoW and Salamanders Flame squads, people only take them if they have to, which is rare.

Scout gets you within rapid-fire range with Combi-Plasmas on the first turn. Can't take that lightly.

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How big do people reckon the vultarax base is?

100mm? 120mm?

I'd really like to figure that one out before I order custom bases.

>>48358859
While I agree with that >>48358873 is right and the original argument started because (can I use a sabre to get I 2 power fists).

>>48358954
The Vulturefux has a standard flying base.

>>48358944
>I dunno, HW squads are outclassed by Iron Havocs, Kakophoni and Grave Wardens (ie legion-exclusive variants) at the minute.
they are supposed to be outclassed by them.

>>48358944
>Scout gets you within rapid-fire range with Combi-Plasmas on the first turn. Can't take that lightly.
it only gets you in rapid fire range if opponent was dumb enough to deploy as close to you as possible. alphas and raven guard can just infiltrate, everybody can just drop pod plasma whereever they want. scout wouldnt be a big deal and would actually be able to give sniper something to compete with.

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>>48358993
This looks like a standard circle base, not the flyer oval. Or I'm blind.

>>48358966
I apologize for starting this shit show.

>>48359016
It's about as round as your deformed manboob nipples.

>>48359046
Fair enough. /hhg/ is nothing but shitshows anyway so no need to feel bad.

>>48359115
Not much man either.

Anyway your nipple shape is what matters.

Is there a link for the new Crusade list with the updated points cost yet for marines?

>>48359004
That's not even wrong. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of game mechanics. All units are supposed to be viable choices. Else why are we talking about how to change units?

Or if the enemy's best choice under ordinary circumstances is to deploy very close, in which case you disincentivise that and force the enemy to accomodate, which you can exploit with the rest of your list. It only takes one threat to make a difference. Plus a Scout unit can act as a roadbump or distraction melee threat. Not every army is Alphas and Raven Guard by the way. Drop Pods arrive on turn 2 and cost points; it's not much admittedly. Maybe Scouts is alright, but it feels like it's treading on Seeker's toes (yes, Sniper is also do this; does mean we should make TWO ways for Vets to do this?). Remember that Vets can be a compulsory troops very easily; having any Legion able to Scout its compulsory troops is a big deal. It's a role-changer rather than just an efficacy boost.

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the scale is 1/56, would these be acceptable for Age of Darkness cybernetic enhancment Militia?

>>48359166
Try reading the OP.

>>48358993
>>48358954
do we have any stats/weapon types on the vulturax, besides the havoc launchers?

>>48359170
>That's not even wrong. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of game mechanics. All units are supposed to be viable choices. Else why are we talking about how to change units?
legion special units that are intended to be unique and improved versions of heavy support squads, are supposed to actually be better than heavy support squads.
>Drop Pods arrive on turn 2
seems like you are the one with a fundamental misunderstanding of game mechanics.

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>>48359210
Nope, but one of the FW artists said it was basically a haywire gun, something that could damage a spartan.

It's basically a giant skitarii arc rifle.

>>48359016
i hope it sounds like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrjLZ_UYUl4

>>48359317
I like drone-sounds.
Even though these look Tau-made, their behaviour is my headcanon of a Cybernetica Cortex, or at least something similar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEby9OkePpg

Sounds only
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxCxLg33s2Q

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>>48359317

>>48359272
Again, that's not how game balance works. Iron Havocs are not intended to replace Heavy Weapon Squads. They are an alternative, more powerful but more expensive. Nobody really minds in this instance because the two units are pretty similar in any case, but for what it's worth balance is better.

I'm sorry, can they arrive on turn 1 now? I never keep up with Drop Pod mechanics, I've never used them and I encounter them rarely. Also that's not even wrong again, I misunderstood nothing. In that sense of the word game mechanics, neither did you; but then that sense was never being used.

>>48359472
>giant butt
>not where butt is

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iNe5npkid-s
>Salamanders tank driving

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>>48359678

>>48359609
1/2 of your drop pods, rounding up, come in 1 turn automatically. theyve worked this way since like 5ed.

so if you are running orbital assault, and take 7 drop pods, and 4 of those pods have 4x 10x man plasmagun units, you can drop all 40 plasmaguns in rapidfire range turn 1.

drop pods are how you play a true alpha striking list, and everybody can do it.

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>>48359712

>>48359712
kek

>>48359761
See, now that I know the full detail, it may be counteracting the point a little. Why doesn't every army do this if it's so easy? It's not the plurality of all armies in 30K, so there must be some drawback or limitation.

I've come around to the idea of Scout as a Vet option by the by.

>>48359761
Now that dreadnought talons are able to deep strike in an Orbital Assault, I assume that a full talon counts as one unit for the purpose of drop pod assault as the talon is one unit until they are deployed and are only deployed when they finish the deep strike.

So potentially you could have 9 dreadnoughts in turn 1 as 3 full talons drop pod in and the other 2 drop pods of whatever remain in reserve.

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>>48359712

>>48359825
>Why doesn't every army do this if it's so easy?
because people dont like playing against it, and people dont like buying and building drop pods.

my next legion is going to be ultramarine drop pod assault with 7 pods. i probably wont be a total asshole and take 40 plasmaguns, but its an option.

>>48359839
no it would be on a drop pod basis, not a unit entry basis.

its still strong af though since youd have like 11 drop pods or something

>>48359712
holy shit, i would fucking hate to be either of the drivers, instant deafness

>>48359825
>Why doesn't every army do this if it's so easy?

Its a Rite of War, it has limitations like no non-skimmer tanks and people may want to do other rites of war like Pride of the Legion or whatever.

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>>48359881
The muzzle is not exactly between them. And there's a shield up in front of them.

I like the M3 GMC. If only Battlegroup would get some North Africa or Italy books, so I could use mine. Only place I've been able to field them has been with Soviets as a SU-57 (same, but with a 6pdr. gun instead of a 75mm howitzer).

>>48359883
Oh yeah, I forgot you basically can't take Drop Pods outside of the Rite of War. The other anon tried to decieve me. Scout is back to being a little much.

>>48359859
Yeah nah, 30K isn't that bad.

>>48360013
>can't take Drop Pods outside of the Rite of War

Dreads can. And you can take Deathstorm and Dreadclaw pods.

>>48359852

>Sisters of Silence can't so no, so it ain't rape

>Nigga I don't think thats how it works

>Naw I read about it in the brotha Apothecaries books, when they can't talk its called "Implied Consent"

>You can read?

>>48360013
>Oh yeah, I forgot you basically can't take Drop Pods outside of the Rite of War. The other anon tried to decieve me. Scout is back to being a little much.
i didnt deceive anything, if you wanted to alpha strike, you would run drop pod assault or play AL/RG. all scout would do it give people the option to fuck with the enemys deployment and be better at threatening vehicles with meltabombs. which is good and would actually give sniper competition.

>Yeah nah, 30K isn't that bad.
im probably only going to run 20 plasmaguns, 20 combi melta vets with +1 to pen (and tankhunter from girlyman), 20 sniper vets, and a suzerian unit with girlyman and vent anus. all the vets would have meltabombs.

its more balanced

>>48352586
Artillery can board transports, right? I mean you can put rapiers in certain kinds of drop pods. Could you put a bunch of rapier batteries in a Stormlord for a superbunker?

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>>48360077
No.

>>48360057
It's only dreads. Non-transport Drop Pods, and Drop Pods with a non-insignificant cost, were never what were talking about.

>>48360076
AND the opportunity for any Legion to take a full troops core of Alpha-striking Plasma vets, without the expense of Drop Pods AND being able to take another RoW.

Between Fulmentarii and Tyrants discussion, I find the most ridiculous thing is not their better BS or Tank Hunters, but Peritarch Targeters. There's no fucking way UMs will have better tech than IW on a unit they copy from them.

>>48360190
what? you dont get to take another RoW if you are taking pride of the legion. and scout sucks balls for alpha strike.

shit man do you even play the game

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>>48360102
IMO the only thing that looks worse than the regular stormraven are 90% of fan-made conversions to try and make it look better.

>>48360227

And to add insult to decimation UM have a much better LA rule then IW, so even then they're firing at infantry they effectively get rerolls to wound on all their weapons so long as literally anything else shot at them

Sometimes it seems like the only good thing IW have going for them is their autistic overlord, maybe that's why their so bitter

>>48356458
>>48356461
So for a Salamander Stormlord that's what, 3 Heavy flamers and 5 twin linked heavy flamers? with potentially 20 more flame weapons firing from it? Have we potentially created something that has 'enuff burny?

>>48360298
We have some of the best LD rules in 30k.

>>48360227
>There's no fucking way UMs will have better tech than IW on a unit they copy from them.
why not? ultras do everything better

fulmentarii suck balls anyway they are like 300+ points more expensive than tyrants are.

>>48360231
...okay, now that was a brain fart. Forget that.

Scout is probably balanced.

>>48360245
I love the stormraven, now Im itching to just buy a stormraven hull and turn it into a tank with plasticard tracks..

>>48360374
Don't be a pussy, get a Stormraven and a Manticore and splice the two into a killer missile tank.

Thinking about buying the Calth box. Can i use 30k models in a 40k game?

>>48360430
Yes, they're just fucking marines.

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>>48360311
>Have we potentially created something that has 'enuff burny?
So, a Salamander-crewed Stormlord is what happens when the Petroleum Warfare Department get enough funds.

>>48360430
>Can i use 30k models in a 40k game?
Ew, but yes.

>>48360472
>Ew, but yes.
MkIV were regarded as nice and artificer, until BaC made them mob-tier. Oh, the times.

>>48360227
>>48360298
The fluff says Gorilaman not only copied them, but improved on the idea, and 500 worlds surely have enough manufacturing and scientific capacity for such endeavour.
Notice how this is the fluff merely justifying how the IW should be righfully shafted.
HOWEVER...shouldn't Tyrants be BS5/Stubborn?
They're stated to be veterans. Not IG-tier vets, but actual hardy veterans, which is hard to do in the meatgrinder legion.

>>48360507
I was actually thinking about putting poor MkIV-chan and Cataphractii-san into a 40k or, Emperor forbid, a formation rather than the other way round.

>>48360327
>>48360555

Ride the Iron Fire anyone? Fearless and pinpoint blast precision?

>>48360555
>HOWEVER...shouldn't Tyrants be BS5/Stubborn?
are they already good enough.

10x tyrants = 545 points
10x fulmentarii with powerfists and missile launchers = 750

shit you could take 10 tyrants, a MoS and a siegebreaker for the same point cost and just have tank hunter and bs5 + the bombardment.

why do IW always complain?

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>>48360602
>I was actually thinking about putting poor MkIV-chan and Cataphractii-san into a formation
Point taken.
>>48360619
I was more thinking about their krak missiles, though.

>>48360637

because, they are the only one's whose special unit gets stolen?

>>48360645
and then moved into heavy support so that it can't even be taken anymore. don't forget that part, that's a far worse sin

>>48360319

Leadership bonuses aren't really that great unless they're backed up by either some inherent way to increase your firepower, durability, or man fighting potential

Death Guard, ultramarines and Word Bearers all also have good leadership bonuses, but all of them also have some way of dealing more damage then normal, either though free/unique wargear, LA rules or more/unique wargear options from RoW while the IW don't really

Not to mention the shuffle Havoks and Tyrants both occupying heavy slots (inb4 someone tries to argue that no really, FW didn't just copy and paste the preamble sentence from book 3, and Tyrants can totally be taken as Elites choices too, ignore the fact that it makes no mention of the Iron Circle bots and is clearly copied and pasted word for word from book 3)

Its not even like IW would be hard to do Right, going purely off what has already been released and established:

Let them assault after rapid firing as part of legion rules, give them some unique buff to robots, make warsmith be useful (like picking a warlord trait or some other bonuses), get rid of shrapnel bolts and just let heavy bolters be swapped for olympia bolters, make Havoks Elites, make omni scopes wargear available to all squads and make HoO give siege plating to vindis/preds

>>48360555

Tyrants get two wounds, putting them in line with most of the other legion termies that are suppose to be known for their ability to survive (Death Shroud, Justaerin, fire drakes)

And before anyone asks, no, I don't play IW, I'm just autistic like one

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>>48360645
>IW had CML cataphractii first

Oh anon...

>>48360655
At least you get 4 slots. FA slots as RG are a nightmare with the new seekers.

>>48360645
>they are the only one's whose special unit gets stolen?

Suzerains are just better Phalanx Wardens/Immortals and yet you dont see IF/IH bitch about it.

Besides AL stole everyone's shit.

>>48360684
That's only if you take their original RoW. Ironfire is way better and doesn't give the extra HS slot.

>>48360645
maybe they shoudlve picked a better legion
>>48360655
taking tyrants as troops with potl was broken as fuck

>>48360705
>taking tyrants as troops with potl was broken as fuck
Not really, it wasn't even a good list. It was cute because you could make a 3000 point list with about 30-35 models, but it wasn't actually good at winning games. HS slots are way too important to IW that you can, at most, take one unit of Tyrants now since you're going to have a unit of Havocs and a unit of artillery tanks at a minimum in any IW army, and that's assuming you don't want to bring a Scorpius or some other actual line tank.

>>48360637
>why do IW always complain?
Because every legion but BA, DA, and WS have all their units by now, and then some, like characters, legion specific versions of regular units like Command Squads and such.

>>48360744
>take one unit of Tyrants now since you're going to have a unit of Havocs and a unit of artillery tanks at a minimum in any IW army
nobody is forcing you to take the oh so fun to play against 3x medusas, nobody is forcing you to take havocs, nobody is forcing you to run ironfire so you could take hammer of olympia and still take your 20x terminators.

IW just complain for the sake of complaining, meanwhile ironfire with phosphex and othe rtemplate spam is the most broken RoW in the game.

>>48360675
They haven't been done poorly though, for a Legion that adhered to the their original template, I believe forgeworld has done an amazing job portraying them as they are.

Powergaming isn't relevant when the IW's are as flavorful as they are.

>>48360787
>ironfire with phosphex and othe rtemplate spam is the most broken RoW in the game
Not gonna argue with that, it is honestly pretty insane.

>>48360796
This too, of all the legions that had a lot of character already it felt like they really nailed IW the best. They even expanded on it with cool loyalist stuff that felt even more Iron Warrior-y than the traitors.

If Trump is the Emperor, does that make his kids primarchs?

>>48360824
his wife (the mechanicum) is merely stealing knowledge and writing from their predecessors so I guess that fits too

>>48360787
But I hate phosphex.

>>48360796
I like my legions LA, but I feel that they're lacking in comparison to others, to be honest.

>>48360824
No. Trump is Dorn.

>>48360824
No, His biological children are the sensei.

>>48360854
>Trump is Dorn.
>Only wants one wall.
He wouldn't make it as a Tactical.

>>48360854
They are siege specialists, the most powerful weapons in the game are Heavy Artillery, which they have excellent synergy with.

Do they really need Power Shovels?

Do they really need Assault Cannons?

The IW's don't NEED these special death ball items everyone's raving about.

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>>48360854
>But I hate phosphex.
DECIMATE
>>48360843
its funny how the ape she 'stole from' just stole the quote from bob dole's wife anyway.
>>48360824
eric is guilliman, baron is alpharius because alpharius is a manlet whos the size of a child

>>48360796

I won't argue they nailed that tone and that feel, but they just in general feel kind of weak, especially for a supposedly shooty legion in comparison to the other shooty legions, like brrrrt angels or Ironwing

IW should be to shooting what WE are to melee, they close in to firefight range pelting under the guns of their tanks and artillery before blasting their foe apart at point blank range while their paranoid cruel savant warlords watch from afar and coordinate the unending and efficient supply of bodies and arms for the grinder

Heavy metal, full fucking automatic, and unreasonably disciplined

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>>48360897

having the Hammer of Olympia's Rapid fire rule as standard would be neat though

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>>48360871
When you're good, you only need one wall.

>>48360954
It's to get IW players in the right downtrodden and bitter mood.

But yes, I agree. At this point it might have to wait until the siege of Terra. What else were IW involved in that we already know about? I know the old fluff pretty well but it doesn't talk much about the middle of the Heresy.

>>48361009
theyll probably give them their special units when the books get around to the glassing of tallarn.

so the ETA would be like 2025 at the rate FW is going

>>48360959
that would be a little over the top when combined with Ironfire, since it would make tacticool squads way too good at assault

is the "wave of bodies" Hammer of Olympia strategy even played/viable anymore? between all the ways 30k armies have to delete large blobs of power armour in the open and the better options you have for compulsory troops it seems pretty damn weak.

>>48361009
Hopefully they'll get Lyssatran boys in rules and models (Obliterators.
I didn't even care so much about the crunch of the Tyrants, Peritarchs irk me in fluff sense.

>>48360954
Look man, you don't need special bullets of specialness to be a shooty legion.

>>48360959
I don't think its fluffy or even needed.

As a RoW it's pretty cool, the blackshields have BOLTERS that allow them to do that, its a mechanical trait, now a fluffy one.

>>48360472
>>48360602

Shut the fuck up newfag I was using Mk IV in Badab War in 2011 before 30k even existed and you were even on this board.

>>48361039

Because I'm a fucking Nerd I actually wrote out an alternate HoO to kind of get around that:

Assuming assault after rapid fire goes to LA rules...

>Hammer of Olympia

Close Assault: Rhino transports gain the assault vehicle special rule

Sheathed in Steel: All models with the tank type gain siege plating if they have extra armour

Siege engineers: May take 1 additional heavy support choice

>Restrictions

Must take an additional compulsory troops choice

All tank squadrons must contain a model with the command tank USR

Your army must contain a tank squadron of the Predator or Vindicator type

May not have more FA then heavy support options

warlord must be a warsmith or Perturabo

The idea being to create a durable, crushingly powerful, if inflexible army of infantry and tanks working together

>>48361069
Of course you were. And so were a lot of other "MkIV is the best, FW master race" fags. Now that every Thomas, Dickus and Horatio can have a whole army of MkIVs in plastic, it's a shit tier suit. Very rarely people are scavenging MkVI bits from people in order to make even a squad of beaky marines like they used to in the old days. Several plastic kits comes with several sets of MkVI suits.

At this rate MkVIII will be the last bastion of elite armour that people can make whole units of and feel superior about it.

>>48361134
mk8 really is the best anyway

if ferrus had the sense to wear mk8 he wouldnt have had his head removed

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>>48361118
>Close Assault: Rhino transports gain the assault vehicle special rule
I kind of see where you're going with it, but cheap, light assault vehicles aren't really an Iron Warrior hallmark. That seems like something Space Wolves or White Scars would do - a barely armoured shell that exists purely to get their choppy marines into the fight faster.

Siege plating is +1 to front armour, right? That seems... a little crazy. That would give Preds and Sicarans front AV14 and LRs front AV15 and Spartans... front AV15 with a Flare shield for effective front AV16...

Apparently open-topped Rhinos with larger transport capacity exist in the fluff and have for some time, so for all we know we'll actually get them in Inferno. They've been pictured in the artwork as being present during the battle. If we do they'll probably be available to all legions though so you'd not only get your wish but it would make my point moot.

>>48361134
Yeah Mk IV has become overdone pleb tier status due to how common it is but he was implying any model from 30k, such as Mk III, V, Tartaros, etc are "gross" to use in 40k, when many of them originated in 40K to begin with. Tartaros, for example, started in 40K with cruxes, as did all the pre-heresy marks.

Using Cataphractii or plastic BaC junk in 40K? Okay, I can kind of see how that's gross, but using a full resin 30k legion to represent their 40k chapter? Why not? Is putting a Suzerain helmet on a 40k HG really worse than using the Finecast model?

inb4 Ultramarines are gross in general

>>48361034
>>48361061
We’ve got two issues here, right? Only one special unit (beep boop) because the other one (siege tyrants) don’t have models, and weak shooty rules unless you’re going full template.

Doesn’t really seem that bad.

>>48360919
But the standard frag rounds are fine for me. The shatter shells would be fine if they had barrage.

Really, at this point all I want is a special MkIII or II squad like the IH have that comes with a nuncio-vox. Would be perfect if they all came with helmets as well.

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>>48361170
MkVIII is hardly the only suit with a collar. It was merely one of the few improvements they did to the MkVII, but otherwise the suits are mostly the same.

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>>48361189
Cataphractii have rules for 40k now, though. They're fucking broken as hell, too, since instead of FW's very carefully written "all the downsides of Slow and Purposeful with none of the conferred benefits" rules GW in their infinite jobberness just fucking gave them Slow and Purposeful. Hooray, Relentless Grav Devastator squads!

To be honest Slow and Purposeful just needs to be re-written in the main rules to not confer quasi-Relentless to the rest of the unit. It's really stupid that one guy in a squad can make the rest of the squad able to lug around and fire their heavy weapons as if they're assault rifles.

... but I digress. Point is that GW is going to take anything that's selling a lot in HH and give it rules for standard issue 40k to make it sell even more. There's really no reason why you shouldn't be able to use an alternate model in 40k either as long as it's not a a bespoke unit that straight up doesn't have 40k rules (and you're trying to take it as such). The Iron Hands tacticals for example are one of the best infantry kits FW has ever made and are perfect for 40k Iron Hands just as much as they are for 30k Iron Hands.

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>>48361218

You call that a collar? It's not even vaguely bird-shaped!

>>48361218
Are Ashen Circle actually any good? That model is really cool, but reading the rules they sound super mediocre compared to most assault units.

>>48361264
What are you talking about, Cataphractii can always move and shoot. They're relentless, like all Terminators. And they effectively do have Slow and Purposeful.

>>48361341
The difference is that 40k cataphractii ICs can join power armor units, like devestators, and confer the relentless-like bonuses to the unit. So mobile heavy weapons.

>>48361341
The point is that Cataphractii in 30k only confer the penalties of S&P to their squad, but not the benefits because they don't actually have the rule. S&P as it's worded in the BRB gives the Relentless bonus to every other member of the squad, meaning you can join a model with S&P to a heavy weapons unit so they can move and shoot (or shoot while in a transport that moves). This is a pretty common trick with Ork armies using a Warboss in Mega-Armour (I think it's Mega-Armour? I don't play Orks) to give Lootas S&P so they can shoot and move or shoot in a Trukk or whatever.

30k Cataphractii don't actually have the S&P rule, so we don't have this problem in 30k - if we did, the Stormlord addition would be a MUCH scarier problem.

However, the Cataphractii in 40k (that GW made 40k rules for because it's in plastic) DOES have BRB S&P, which means giving Devastators (or any other allied imperial heavy weapons unit) conferred S&P.

>>48361389
This.

>>48361389
yeah but arent grav cents better anyway?

and didnt skyhammer just give them relentless anyway?

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>>48358170
>in love

I don't understand this. That tank's center of gravity is so markedly off-center, it looks like it shouldn't be able to move without getting stuck. It's a terrible design on par with that FW Wossname abomination with the tall, fixed "turret."

Different strokes, indeed.

>>48361416
They're better because they're relentless. If you can make the significantly cheaper devestators relentless too, and stick them in a transport, that's a better option.

>>48361432
I read that in his voice, dang it.