MTG: Standard General

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>>48326388
I am going to make a busta liliana zombie deck with vengeful noid.

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the new official image of standard

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Which of these will see the most play?

>>48327239
Nahiri, because eldrazi and card draw

I was running Jund Collected Company because I had a Friend's set of Collected Companies and Sylvan Advocates. It was fun doing CoCo into Matter Reshaped + Fleshbag Marauder, and flipping into another Fleshbag. Unfortunately I had to give the stuff back.

Now I'm looking into making B/R madness burn if it's even possible.

>>48327273
>card draw
>not tamiyo

>>48327825

I love our neighborhood Bunny-Eared Girl Scout just as much as you do, anon, but we both know that, in this standard, Bant Can't.

>>48327113

every man child pulled this shit at pre release along with the angels and deep fried shit

and i pulled that 7 mana red uncommon


Anyways messing with u/w spirit tempo, it seems solid. 5 mana jace is really underrated and im still undecided on the sub investigate theme.

>>48328904
i've been playing uw spirits at a sweet midrange and getting more aggro/control in boarding

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/cult-of-sigarda-gw-humansinvestigate/

I've been working on this thing for a while now, based on cards from SoI onward, mostly. I'm mostly looking for advice on the spell base, since I'm quite satisfied with the creatures so far. If I have to, though, Duskwatch goes first.

>>48328761
Ban't CoCo has exactly one rotation to enjoy life.

And then never again.

I'm still determined to make a control deck out of black and blue rise from tides and brain in a jar.
Probably going to stick two of that new blue enchantment in there.

It will probably suck since 90% of the meta seems agro

>>48332495
>two of that new blue enchantment in there
not sure if referring to imprisoned in the moon or the auto-counter that sacrifices itself, either way it's gonna be complete trash
c o m p l e t e t r a s h

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I'm throughly expecting at least 6 variations of white weenies/humans, being mono-white, G/W, R/W, U/W, Bant, and Naya.
Thalia's Lieutenant with Garrison will just be retarded, and the 4 toughness that Garrison will be at with Always Watching is no joke either
>inb4 dies to grasp of darkness.

>>48332689
Nah the one that exiles the top card of opponents library on first cast their turn and allowed you to play the exiled card for no cost.

>>48333161
mind's dilation, opened one yesterday in the same pack as gisela

i actually want to use that combined with fevered visions, startled awake & talent of the sociopath with a fucktonne of counters just to give people the shits

Why the fuck are you guys playing standard? The last format and this current format is fucking cancer and will only get worse with EMN. Just about every deck that doesn't have green or white is garbo tier, and blue is on suicide watch. I hope you guys enjoy Collected: the Companying till Kaladesh!

>>48333703
Because I play Green and White regularly and don't feel like losing to Thopters: The Thoptering repeatedly when Kaladesh rotates in with all of its quirky red/blue nonsense.

>>48333703
Because modern is too expensive and the deck get banned more often than standard rotates.

With Investigate and Tamiyo, do you guys think mill would work?

How'd you all do at prerelease?
Went 3-1 with a r/w humans deck and pulled both Gisa and Geralf and Ulrich of the Krallenhorde from the prize boosters.

>>48333161

I'm running Mind's Dilation as a one of in my old Esper Pact deck.

>>48333770
I went 3-1 with Red/White weenie/burn with little in terms of decent bombs, but solid synergy. Got Lili, Heron's Grace Champion, Grim Flayer, and Thalia from prize packs.

>>48333760
Namely, I love me some Tamiyo, got her at the prerelease, and can't for the life of me think of what to use her in. I've been wanting to make some sort of land deck, with sylvan advocates and stuff, but I'm not sure what to make.

Hell, I pulled two ulamogs and two nahiris too, and a decimator.

>>48333770
3-0-1 playing mardu crap. Working on getting a playset of eldritch evolution for some mono green good stuff

>>48333771
>Esper Pact deck
>starfield
>auto-counter or sinister concoction
you jerk

>>48333808

Honestly I was going to bin the deck if there weren't any Enchantments in EMN I was able to abuse in loops. But seeing as what we got isn't so bad you've basically got a fundamental means to create a soft-lock deck in Standard. Gonna give it a good hurrah before rotation while I can play with cards like Starfield of Nyx and Sigil of the Empty Throne.

>>48333808
>get Mind's Dilation in the graveyard somehow
>bring it back with Starfield
Holy fuck.

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Melding sounds like this.

I see Eldrazi appear in Innistrad, I wonder if they will reach a tribe level equal to that of Goblins or Elves.

>>48333770
Went 3-2 and got 3 packs using a UG Emerge deck. Probably could have gotten 4-1 if I went with vampires, but the Emerge deck is honestly one of the most fun decks I've ever made. Getting to draw a card, tutor a land, or make a 3/2 while emerging my creatures is gravy, and nothing beats the feeling of emerging Decimator of the Provinces to donkey punch my opponent for 15 damage out of nowhere.

>>48333953

For a tribe to work they need to have a few things. Eldrazi already work as a tribal deck of sorts in Modern, Legacy and Vintage.

>>48333953
It's more like contact fusion then poly. Also, Eldrazi are already up there and surpassed the power level of goblins or elves. Pre Eye of Ugin ban they were tier 0 in modern, and they are tier 1 in Legacy, they even are a force to be reckoned with in Vintage.

>>48333953
Eldrazi as a tribe are relevant.

>>48333878

You run Oath of Jace.

>>48334100
>Oath of Jace with Starfield
>Cast a second Oath of Jace and get the cantrip
>Keep getting back the Oath on upkeep with Starfield for constant card advantage while filling the graveyard with other enchantments to bring back

>>48334496
That's what you generally do with Oath of Gideon post-board if you need chump blockers

>>48334496

That's pretty much how the deck goes. You can even loop Demonic Pacts together if they're creatures from the Starfield and choose to have them deal 4 damage to themselves.

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>>48333770
3-3 with U/R around instants and sorceries. I had no choice with these fuckers. Also some emerge.
The matches I won were quick, the others were really close though. Had some green mixed in at first too.

>>48335055
>4 mythics
What the fuck, I'm happy if I can get that much out of a display. Only heard of 3 mythics at my store, still jelly.
Someone managed to use the second ability of Oath of Liliana though.

>>48335100
Oh it was nuts. Only time I ever pulled a mythic was M15 when I went blue to get out of my usual green/black colors and pulled Garruck Apex Predator in pack 2.

I want to try G/B Delirium so should I buy a playset of Grim Flayers right now or just wait for a price drop?

>>48326388
You're using the Dragon wrong. You shouldn't be using it as Zada 5-8, you should be using it as Flying 4/5 for 5 that nukes the opponent's board when they remove it. Honestly it's a decent beater for R/G ramp.

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Literally just got back into MTG after playing back in mirrodin block and dropping after innistrad. This set looked fun, and I really liked the spirits so I bought a bunch of this shit cause it was cheap. Thankfully I got it when I did cause spirits seem to be on the rise.

This is what I am using for now. Pretty much unfinished as you can tell but it gets the job done playing with my buddies. I think I will drop the always watching and eerie and lean a bit more towards tempo/control. The investigate subtheme is fun and flashing/Ocommanding the double investigate guy into stuff with bishop on board is too fun.

Im also looking into picking up some matter reshaper as I am pretty sure they will sky rocket if the emerge creatures are as broken as I think they are.

Hey tg, wondering if anyone can comment on the state of the current meta of 2HG in standard?

me and a friend are thinking of doing some local standard 2HG tourneys, especially at an Eldritch Moon event coming up soon.

>>48336940
How would matter reshaper work with emerge cards?

>>48336933
Well, I figured Zada is a terrible creature to try to keep on board. But I also don't know anything about standard metagame.

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>>48337019

Matter Reshaper

When Matter Reshaper dies, reveal the top card of your library. You may put that card onto the battlefield if it's a permanent card with converted mana cost 3 or less. Otherwise, put that card into your hand.

All of the 7 cost emerge monsters get insane value from this, as it allows you to sack him, and get whatever bonkers effect these cards have. Specifically elder deep but hes probably the most useful 3 drop in standard as far as sacking goes.

>>48337063
>>48337019

oh and the 7 cost is important for emerge because it allows us to drop him on turn 4 after sacking a 3.

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>>48333770
Placed first with B/R Madness/Delirium. Here's some of my loot from the event.

>>48333770
I've sorted my stuff out, so no pics.
I took third and went 5-1 (swept once, got swept)
Played G/W humans with Bruna and a pair of It of the Horrid Swarm. Seasons Past pulled a hilarious comeback one game.
Star was Bruna, though. Despite the big cost.

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>There are people RIGHT NOW, IN THIS THREAD, who don't own their playset

It's gonna be a staple in BG Delirium, calling it now.

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>>48326388
My current brew idea revolves around a combination of Dragon Tempest and Descent of the Dragons, with Curious Homunculi and various token engines to ramp out Descent early for some lethal burn and hasty dragon action. Provided no flying blockers and Magical Christmasland lethal is achievable by Turn 5 on average and possibly Turn 4.

It needs a name and a draw engine though. Day's Undoing/Collective Defiance for card filtration is my idea so far.

>>48340106
>BG delirium
>ever relevant
Be grateful for BG Season Past and maybe Gitrog midrange, you Golgari scum

>>48336940
my advice is drop the spectral shepherd, it is almost always useless from my experience
play spell queller as a 3 drop

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>>48326388
Somene Decimator elves here? Im gonna play it because there will be a long time before we get elves again in standard.

>>48343331
>Decimator Elves
>Not R/G Big Pig
You disgust me

>>48340106
I'd really like it if Rock ended up working out well. I'd play it. It would probably be between that, doing R/W Humans with hanweir, or sticking with BW Midrange-control because playing hard control is a death wish at my LCS.

>>48343828
Dont hate me, I actually play RG if I can in standard. Post a list if you can.

went 2-0 2-0 2-0 1-2 at premiere with UBr kinda-agro/control deck
Lost last round after putting dude at 1 hp when I was at 15 and he managed to delete all my tokens/creatures and I only drew shit, feels bad man

>>48336940
>The investigate subtheme is fun and flashing/Ocommanding the double investigate guy into stuff with bishop on board is too fun.
Just hoping you realize that Ocommanding Erdwal into play doesn't trigger Bishop. I'd ditch the Erdwals since they're extremely underwhelming without Bishops. I'd suggest Selfless Spirit if you want better Ocommand graveyard interaction.

I'm putting together a spirits list. Might make it Bant, since I already have my CoCos and Tamiyo looks fun. I'm probably giving it a selfmill subtheme for Topplegeist and Ocommand, but it's getting really crowded already.

Spectral Shephard is cute, getting all that extra value out of all your ETB spirits (esp Spell Queller) and I think 2 is the perfect number. However, it might end up just being winmore garbage. Will have to playtest to see.

Ditch Always Watching for Thunderclap Wyvern.

>>48333770
Pulled a bomb of a deck along with a foil Gisela.

Went 4-0 and made the mad skrilla.

>>48340106
>It's gonna be a staple in BG Delirium, calling it now.
That seems unlikely.

Delirium decks need to run a very modest ammount of creatures alongside a wide variety of other spells, while maximizing the Delirium pay-off. Mindwrack Demon simply pays off since all it does is get rid of a dissadvantage without actually giving you anything good.

>But it enables Delirium!
Not fast enough nor reliably. If it had been 7 cards maybe it would have seen play, but as it is it needs to have lots of support for the ETB trigger to enable Delirium and there are cards better at it than it. Hell, Contingency Plan is a better Delirium enabler (though that's a singularly powerful common, as soon /tg/ will realize).

>But it's the best beater in the format!
Yes, its stats are pretty good, but imho he is 1 power short of being great and unfortunately G/B delirium aggro decks can never be a thing because to work they'd need good burn spells and burn is simply shit in the format right now, so your only option would be to fill the deck with aggro critters, which throws the balance between card types and defeats the purpose of a delirium deck. This means G/B Delirium needs to be a midrange or control deck.

It's not a bad card in Standard, and might see play but its far from being a staple in any deck.

>>48345004
spectral shepherd is just garbage in that deck. i always end up sideboarding out

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>>48344958
pulled and played top row
opened in prizes and traded for bottom row, added to deck since they're all breddy good

>>48343828
>R/G Big Pig
>Not B/G/C Thanksgivings
You disgust me.

>>48343273

I thought his interaction with spell queller specifically was interesting but beyond that he's not amazing. He will probably be gone by the time emn releases and I get some cards.

>>48345079
You're probably right. However it might be okay in a CoCo list.
>>48345209
I'm likely just going to run Unsubstantiate instead, since it does what Shepherd does (in regards to Spell Queller), but is more flexible and helps fill the instant spot for Topplegeist's Delerium, which Spell Queller has taken away slightly. Same goes for Eerie Interlude.

So im thinking of a spirits deck but im unsure what the ratios for cards like spell queller or mosaleum wanderer should be. Anybody got any tips?

>>48345316
4 of each, 4 Rattlechains, 4 Reflector Mage. That's the very core of the deck.

>>48345116

If I get a weaboo japanese liliana will I be able to play it in NA tournaments?

>>48345280

I wasn't sure if topplegeist would make the cut in standard. Do you think it's strong enough? Seems fine with rattle chains but when your running low on gas if that's your top deck it feels pretty bad.

Also I'm kicking myself for not pre ordering emn spirits while I could. My buddies talked me our of it saying I'll probably pull stuff at pre release/ in my box but of course that didn't work out.

>>48345004

I've been brewing bant in my head as well and while I don't think I'll be including CoCo I do think flashing in permeating mass during blocks is actually broken.

>>48345280
>>48345209

>However it might be okay in a CoCo list
everything else is <= 3. i'd recommend a selfless spirit just to protect your queller.

i'm a big fan of unsubstantiate in this deck. i've been seeing how 2 in the mainboard feels and i like it a lot. you can bounce your own spell queller then flash it in for the same cost as spectral shepherd, but also bounce something until you have the mana up to quell it.

>>48345444
i ran this with topplegeist for a while. i only got delirium if i sacced evolving wilds (which i don't run in this deck anymore).
the primary function it serves is defensive, in which case i would rather have a more expensive, bigger body with upside (bygone bishop)

>>48345623
I agree on topplegeist, I've been running a nice U/W tempo and thraben inspector did a lot more for me than geist in this shell.

>>48345665
yeah, i had been playing a spirits/clues deck with thraben inspector. it felt too slow in a lot of matchups so i dropped it and shifted away from clues.
i can take a turn's worth of sylvan advocate on the ground then bounce it with reflector mage rather than chumping

>>48345444
>I wasn't sure if topplegeist would make the cut in standard. Do you think it's strong enough? Seems fine with rattle chains but when your running low on gas if that's your top deck it feels pretty bad.
I'm not sure. I had it in there before just to fill the one drop slot before EDM got spoiled, but now that we have Mausoleum Wanderer and Permeating Mass, it's probably redundant, and trying to make Delirium go off could cause some poor deckbuilding decisions.

>>48345623
>i ran this with topplegeist for a while. i only got delirium if i sacced evolving wilds (which i don't run in this deck anymore).
Yeah, the one thing I miss about KTK is the loss of fetches.

>>48345468
>I do think flashing in permeating mass during blocks is actually broken.
I actually love Permeating Mass with Eerie Interlude. Late game, after a few rounds of the board getting full of 1/3s on the ground on both sides, having a bunch of your fliers blink in at the end of an opponent's turn seems devastating. I'll definitely be running it unless an Assault Formation deck becomes something to watch out for.

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Any new tech to make this work? Or is it doomed to never take off due to Assault Formation being in the same block as DCommand?

>>48346091
the only way you can win with castigator is if you play her on turn 4 and then destroy the opponent
otherwise it's trash, I feel

Are there any new brews with the Monu U Prison/Brains? I think this new set has many cards that would fit in these two archetypes.

>>48343331
How come nobody calls it Craterhog?

>>48346294
Because that's not what it is. It's the Big Pig.
Because you can be a big pig too, oi.

>>48346115
Permeating Mass helps. The fact that it curves into Assault Formation and lets you swing for 3 on turn 2 is really neat. I'm considering going jund for Tree of Perdition and Behind the Scenes, but fixing is so shite right now that I'm not sure. The deck is already janky and durdly enough without the problem of mana screw.

>>48346527
Actually come to think of it, I could just go full combo in a Burn/Tree/Mass shell, with Triskaidekaphobia and Demonic Pact to lure out Dcommands. Harmless Offering gets the added utility from giving away Castigator rather than Pact...Oh god this standard season is going to be so painfully janky, but I need to make Christmasland happen at least once.

>>48346091
This isn't going to be standard anymore in like 5 days.

Assault formation is from Tarkir.

Unless I am completely wrong about how they knock off the old blocks.

>>48347377

Nothing rotates out, it's only when Kaladesh comes in does Origins and DTK rotates out.

>>48347418
Kaladesh will be glorious, knocking out both the last of Tarkir and pond scum that is Origins will be great.

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I believe a variation of GBx Delirium will be the best deck in the format

>>48347771
And you would be wrong.

>>48347780
Why exactly?

>>48347787
Because Green/White Humans is a thing.

>>48347727
But we get another cancerous artifact block.

No one wins

>>48333770
3-1 with BW Aristocrats. Sorin I pulled did a lot of legwork too of course.

>>48337063
I keep reading this card as elder deep fried.

>>48348851
>Calamari Damacy

>>48329961
Continuing to make upgrades to this thing. I feel like I'm comfortable without having CoCo in the deck, (since I want to keep playing this for the next couple of rotations), but without Dromoka's command I'm unsure of how many instants and tricks I'll need to pack.

Any people who actually know what they're talking about want to weigh in?

Will RDW be a thing now that we have some sick pump spells like otherwordly outburst, abandon reason, and borrowed hostility?

>>48349444
In my opinion, no.
White is just so fucking dominant with a suite of first strikers and an enchantment that provides vigilance and +1/+1. Red just can't do anything to that.

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I milled my Ema and used this to get her out during prerelease

>>48349680
So you got a 13/13 zombie and a Flying Trample Pro-Instants 1/1? seems lame.

>>48349763
It sucked, but it was a flavor win. A 13/13 zombiefied Ema corpse with her shitty 1/1 spirit floating behind it saying "haha can't get me, prot from instants bitch!"
The judge came over and gave a sensible chuckle.

>>48347727

DTK rotating out is fine since that's sort of an oddball set that's lingering around Standard at the moment. I would have liked origins to stick around a little bit longer because there's lot of cards in there could fuel some really interesting decks.

>>48350472
>wanting baby jace to stick around

As much as I'd like to see mommy&daddy Nalaar, thopter spy network, and Hangerback, Jace needs to leave standard as soon as possible.

>>48350505

Flip Jace isn't even an issue in Standard right now. He's not the super powerhouse he was before.

What's a good build for Tamiyo?

>>48350505
>Baby Jace being overpowered
>in green/white or die the meta

kek

Baby Jace was a problem before when blue was playable and fetchlands existed. You literally can barely play blue in the current meta the most blue you will play right now is touching your foot in blue with reflector mage and jace in company decks.

>>48350877
I would guess Bant CoCo.

>>48350566
>>48350916
Not right now, but if he stuck around for Kaladesh he'd rape the format.

Artifacts and Blue have always jacked each other off way too hard. You'd be a fool to think otherwise.

>>48327113
Should I sell mine? I feel like this shit is good, but not worth the 12 bucks

>>48345401
Had someone play 50% moon cards on one tournament here in Germany. No one said something. It was an Abzan deck.
Guess everyone knows the cards anyway, so no one really bothered. When I asked him, he gave me a quick explaination.
I'm plaiyng some italian cards and prepared a deck in the Magic: Deck Builder deck just in case, if I have to look something specific up.

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>>48346091
Mixed it up with another enchantment, which gave vigilance but basically
>Attack with vigilance
>If he doesn't block, win
If he blocks, it's probably gonna destrey his creature. Even better with trample of course. But it's probably not reliable enough.

>>48332495
I personally think that the prim ring jace's sanctum shell is better than the brain shell, they both play similarly but the life gain from the ring allows you to run a bit less on the board clear side and a bit more on the utility/going off side, though prism ring does want mono color, so you probably need to have majority blue if you go that way.

>>48335100
Got Liliana, foil Grim Flayer and the legendary Werewolf in 2HG
Was neat

>>48346258
I'm trying to figure something out but have been away from my cards for a few weeks, mostly I feel that a lot of the new stuff allows for a better transformational sideboard. Though there is some argument for take inventory perhaps replacing nagging thoughts. I could post a list though it is quite in flux right now.

Tried to make some kind of U/B zombie deck work. Have to say, Cryptbreaker+Relentless Dead generate a ton of value as long as they don't get exiled. But all those fucking exile effects just reck me. Fucking white.

Is Shreds of Sanity good or dogshit? With Fiery Temper in you graveyard it becomes 3R: Return target Sorcery to your hand, deal 3 damage to target creature or player.

Why the fuck is rattlechains 4 dollars a card now?

>>48353304
JUST post it.

>>48354379
I do not understand your use of capitalization in that sentence.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-07-16-mono-blue-prism/

Here it is, I cut JVP because he is mostly good in control matchups the homunculus is almost sanctum 5-8 especially after they sideboard out creature removal, docent of perfection is good for if the ground gets really gummed up because you only generally make something like 15 zombies so taking to the air with 3/2 s seems good as well as the giant eldrazi bug, Sphinx's tutelage probably should be something else though it can work for another switch in game 3 when they sideboard again, negate is self explanatory. Only change from the very standard prism decks is the take inventory replacing nagging thoughts which I am nearly positive is s good change.

>>48354515
Why do you run 4 Hydrolashes mainboard? Are Humans and CoCo all you play against?

>>48327239
I'd like to combo lily's emblem with endless ranks of the dead for token shenanigans

>>48354198
Well, 2RR. I feel like in the right deck it'll be a winner, but I don't think that deck can exist yet.

>>48354544
Mostly yeah, there are a lot of people who just play the top tier deck, it also cantrips which is decent. It might come out but I doubt CoCo will be going anywhere until it rotates, the hydrolase should also help with spirit decks which I expect to be bigger in this standard.

>>48354515
Maybe run unsubstantiate instead of negate? It combos quite well with day's undoing.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/surraks-last-hunt/

please help, I feel like there's something missing in the deck. I've been testing the deck on Forge and like how it plays out but I think the deck won't work in real life.

>>48354515
>I do not understand your use of capitalization in that sentence.

So you just came from reddit, don't worry, the anons here will show you how it works around here.

>>48355090
I've been on here for years I suppose I never really leave tg or co though and generally avoid the less discussion based threads, so I am often slow to pick up the memes.

>>48354312
because we spirits now
i bought 10 when they were $1

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>Standard

This thread

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Help me git gud, lads.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/izzet-hanweir-tempo/#c2737517

As noted in a comment, I have an Identity Thief too but it's not available at TappedOut yet. Pic related.

>>48355076

he might work better giving emerge stuff haste.

>>48355432
So did I. Even if the deck doesn't take off Rattlechains is an excellent card, the kind that tends to become relevant later, maybe years after the actual block is over.

Buying a bunch was the smart thing to do, since when it does spike, it'll spike HARD.

>>48355507
Jesus Christ what the fuck is that abomination.

>>48355432
>>48355795
Not even shitting you, I bought 10 too. Off to the pub we go boys.

>>48355802
Gib advice, it's literally a prerelease shitstorm like it says.

>>48356196
As in, it has no commitments on card numbers yet.

>>48355507
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/izzet-hanweir-tempo/#c2737517
no consistency at all

>>48355943
my man
on the day they jumped to like $2.50 i picked up 6 that i bought from my LGS for $1 and they were mad
feels good

oh, how do people feel about nebelgast herald in UW spirits?
i might put 3 in my board to try to control humans etc

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>>48355076
Mono-green stompy player here. Consider the Den Protector/Deathmist combo. Both of them are dirt cheap now. I would drop Surrak to 3 at most and you might be a little heavy on the pump.
I'm trying to not compare it too hard to my deck because mine is balanced around CoCo.

>>48355432
Well how about adding Tamiyo to make bant spirits?

>>48355076
The deck is very basic, and rather disconnected in its theme.

If you want to make this deck work you need payoff cards, that is, cards that benefit from having high POW on board.

But my advice is that you scrap the deck altogether. As you said, Surrak's time in Standard is coming to an end, so if you actually built a deck around it you'd have to get a new deck come september.

You could build Werewolves if you wanted. You seem to like them and its a deck that'll be in Standard for a long, long time.

>>48356296
I like it a lot. Having a Flash lord and lotsa flash creatures means you can really screw the opponent with a few well-cordinated tempo plays, which imho, are the most satisfactory plays of them all.

>>48356196
Thermo alchemist has 0 synergy with thermo alchemist wants to be in a burn deck probably one with Jace's sanctum and card draw as it plays kind of like a storm card (in the loosest way possible), Hanweir on the other hand wants to be on the top end of an aggro deck, choose which of those you want to do.

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>>48355432
>>48355795
>>48355943
>>48356214
All dem smart niggaz in deez thread.
>Mfw Rattlechains is the new Jace

>>48356504
I guess I should make two separate decks, then. Hanweir is my current baby, but I feel more at-ease building around Thermo-Alchemist, so I just need some advice that won't break the bank. I'm trying not to spend more than 15 dollars buying/pre-ordering for the deck.

>>48356430
desu not a fan of green in this deck
coco is going to rotate out and permeating mass is a liability as much as it is a threat

>>48356547
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ur-emn-burn/

This is a good place to start, if you trim the reefs for highland lakes. The exquisite firecraft is the only other real card of any value there though I am not sure what you could replace it with without making the deck far weaker.

>>48356547
>>48356695
Also just an FYI I threw this deck together very quickly so it is by no means optimized nor play tested.

>>48356608
True, but damn I need some Tamiyo in my life, and her + ability seems to work well with spirits.

>>48356987
Might be worth splashing green for just her, but I wouldn't bother with Permeating Mass.

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>>48357001
might as well play coco then if you have it
i just dont want to spend $40-80, spirits is my first constructed deck

also, whoah @ pic related

>>48357001
>>48357033
I might throw coco and tamiyo in there, but I think I only have 1-2 coco. A small splash perhaps.

>>48336982
Idk if there is a meta for 2HG, but I used to play every week with a friend during Theros block. He played hardcore control, I played super aggressive monsters. Never got close to losing

>>48355507
Some basic advice, you very rarely want x1s in your deck. The only decks that do that are those that have tutoring effects. That is, cards that search your library and put a card in your hand.

Secondly, you don't want garbage commons i your deck, it may sound harsh, but your deck is full of unusable trash. You don't just throw the first in your colors within reach into the deck, you gotta build around a particular strategy that allows you to make the most of each individual card and you are doing that incredibly wrong. Hell, you included Galvanic Bombardment as a 1 of, a card that literally needs to be a 4 of to be any good.

Anyways, if you want to play a deck with the Hanweir cards at its core you should likely use a Tokens strategy, since Hanweir generates them exceedingly well. To do that, drop blue entirely and pick up green. Some card recommendations:

>Emrakul's Evangel (Make tokens out of creatures and make other tokens bigger)
>Second Harvest (multiply your tokens. Good wincon)
>Cryptolith Rite (this is a 2-3 of max and will help you meld Hanweir early on)
>Duskwatch Recruiter (Human form helps you dig for combo pieces to meld and wolf form helps cast them. You can trigger the ability twice in a turn, pass, transform and cast the creatures you got for the reduced cost & repeat ad nauseam)
>Crop Sigil (solid card advantage each turn, can be sacrificed to get stuff you need back on your hand)

Also maybe splash White for some Angels:

>Gisela, The Broken Blade (Beefy flier, can stop other fliers, put pressure on the opponent and give you the lifegain needed to survive long enough to meld your powerful cards)
>Bruna, the Fading Light (Can reanimate the Garrison if you loose it and can't find another or any other Angel, enables Brisela which is practically GG, specially alongside Hanweir)
>Linvala, the Preserver (great to turn things around, has token generation and lifegain)

>>48357643
I'm not that guy, but that's some solid advice.

>>48357643
PS: You can use Nahiri too. Her +2 looting is fucken' awesome, the -2 is great removal and her ultimate can be used to fetch Linvala and either piece of Hanweir or Brisela.

The good thing about using Nahiri alongside the Meld cards is that since you can order the triggers as you wish at end of turn you can meld Hanweir or Brisela before the card you tutored with Nahiri is put on your hard.

Since Meld exiles, the melded cards are treated as new objects, thus, they aren't returned to your hand.

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>>48357643
Personally I'd also use pic related. Its a pretty junky rare but it works great with both Emrakul's Evangel and Second Harvest.

Plus, Ideally the deck should have a balanced ammount of creatures and other spells if some Delirium is to be included.

>>48359022
That card is also a ton of fun pyromancer's goggles.

>>48359539
I hadn't thought about that.

Guess Pyromancer's Goggles into Devil's Playground into Second Harvest to Emrakul's Evangel is a pretty good play... For EDH

In fact let me do the math... Yes, it'd yield 32 horror tokens and 32 points of damage to be distributed at will.

>>48359765
jund and throw in zulaport cutthroats my dude
64 damage, 32 life gain

>>48327239
Nahiri because:

>The good thing about using Nahiri alongside the Meld cards is that since you can order the triggers as you wish at end of turn you can meld Hanweir or Brisela before the card you tutored with Nahiri is put on your hard.

>Since Meld exiles, the melded cards are treated as new objects, thus, they aren't returned to your hand.

The Brisela/Nahiri combo is going to be used a lot in Standard.

>>48356608
>permeating mass is a liability as much as it is a threat
With all the bounce/blink that spirits wants to do, it's much more a threat than a liability

>>48359991
sure, i guess so. it would be huge with declaration in stone.
if you essence flux a permeating mass, it comes back as a permeating mass? what about unsubstantiate?

>>48359991
>>48360041
Hold on, I'm the guy trying to make bant spirits - how would this permeating mass thing work? So you use the permeating mass to turn their creatures into permeating mass themselves, right? Provided it lives to affect more than one of your opponent's creatures.

And the copies can in turn make your creatures into permeating masses? Which you can blink to turn them back?

>>48353844

That's why you play Nantuko Husk and never overcommit too hard against White. You can always sac the target in question so the spell fizzles. Run Collective Brutality to strip their removal like Declaration in Stone against them. Honestly as long as you have Nantuko Husk on the field you should have no problem against the white exile effects. You'll have access to counterspell and tempo backup game 2 and 3.

>>48360132
Also permeating mass doesn't have flying so it shouldn't be able to transform your creatures.

>>48355507
hey that looks like my deck
but not really
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ur-prowess-dtk-emn/

>>48360464
The question is how to make your permeating moss survive more than one combat?

>>48360560
3 toughness is enough for sylvan advocate, expedition envoy, dragon hunter

>>48327113
The other day I lent a Tefferi (the creature) to a friend that needed it for commander. The next day I got a Mausoleum Wanderer, a Rattlerattle, two Selfless Souls and two Spell Quellers at prerelease. Not only did I obviously ended up placing first, but I also just so happen to play Spirits in Modern.

That's karma for you motherfuckers.

>>48360560
Anafenza and Selfless Spirit.
You can also bring it back with OCommand after chumping.

>>48360560
Possibly always watching as well.

>>48360652
anafenza is too earthbound and too hard to cast to really make her worthwhile. if she's not on curve she's a liability
>>48360674
always watching might work in a variant, but the tempo cost is too huge

>>48360560
First Strike

>>48352753
Tree is hopefully going to reinvigorate the Necrotic Ooze modern deck. It is still like tier 2.5 but damn if it isn't fuck as all fuck to play.

>>48360560
Vines of the recluse.
G
Instant
Untaps target creature and gets +1/+2 and reach until the end of turn.

>>48360791
art on that card is so dope

>>48360560

Assault Formation.

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>>48333839
I use a similar deck in Modern with Starfield of Nix, the Oaths, an assortment of planeswalkers (including Ajani Steadfast) alongside pic related, which allows me to chumpblock for days no sweat.

Since I use like 9 planeswalkers I don't know wether to use the new PW CoCo or Call the Gatewatch. Also I'm wondering if the counter Enchantment would be better in a deck that recurs them like no one's business.

>>48361507
PS: I also run Doubling Season for extra Walker/token madness.

>>48361507

Lunar Force is great but you never want 4, at most 2 absolute. Some decks will blast through your counterspells anyway with Cavern of Souls. I'm not sure on the math to reliably hit with the PW CoCo but I think Frank Karsten has kind of done the numbers on that already. Call the gatewatch is pretty useful in your deck no matter what as you can search for a specific walker you want anyway.

>>48337063
Foul Emissary is also pretty great when it comes to emerge decks, since not only does it leave a token behind, it also gets you a creature.

How viable will R/B or mono red vampires be?

Looking for an inexpensive deck to get into standard, yeah I know limited and pauper exist but sometimes playing with refined decks is fun and I don't feel like spending several grand on legacy and vintage

Inb4 being poor and playing magic, I know, chess would've been a much better choice growing up

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Anyone experimented with Eldritch Evolution much? Pulled it as my promo and I love the art and effect so I wanted to see if I could get it to work in standard or it would only be a card for modern.

I've been trying out a G/B/C deck but not really to much success but I feel it's the only colour combination that gives you the toolbox to make evolution useful.

The creature package so far I have is essentially:
1 Gilt-Leaf Winnower
4 Hedron Crawler
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Flip Nissa
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Sidisi
1 Kalitas
4 Elvish Visionary

This leaves 5 spots if we're running 26 lands and the Evolutions, at first I was using Distended Mindbender but I don't think it does enough work late game and the 9-10 mana threats aren't any good if you don't cast them so it isn't even good as a Evolution target. So far I've just been running 3 Ultimate Price and 2 Languish as well.

Evolving a Visionary into a TKS or a Matter Reshaper into a Smasher feels good but I just don't think there's enough of a good manabase or targets with amazing ETB effects for it to work well, honestly I should probably be running Sylvan Advocates as well just because I'm playing Green instead of either the Visionaries or the Hedron crawlers

>>48345773
>I actually love Peating Mass with Eerie interlude
Now that I think about it, if Permeating Mass affects your Quellers the spells they are exiling would be exiled forever. Maybe there's a way to abuse that to exile even more of the opponent's spells?

My best guess at that would be Essence Flux, but I'm drawing a blank on how to make your Quellers into Permeating Masses reliably.

>>48361800

Undefeated at FNM is pretty reasonable. Will probably be severely bodied at PTQs and such because it can still run out of gas too easily and is actually very fragile against control/smart players.

Rate my kinda-shitbrews

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/zombies-from-the-present/

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/spooky-scary-spirits/

>>48340188
Descent of dragons is bad senpai. It was a cute Combo back before Theros rotated out, but now its just bad.

>>48362136
I'm digging the spirits, but remember that planar outburst is a "destroy [all] creatures," so indestructible doesn't protect against it.

>>48362012
>Run Permeating Mass and Chandra's Ignition
>turn everything on the board into a Permeating Mass
hue

>>48361550
I figured as much. I'm still discontent with the deck though because it relies on an enchantment value engine that needs walkers to yield the maximum reward, still, I don't seem to be able to find place for enough creatures that work well with the triple tokens/walkers/enchantments theme. Plus, albeit the deck goes insane later in I don't have anything for the early game. Sure, I can generate some tokens with Oath of Gideon, OGW Nissa and whatnot but the start is decidedly lackluster.

Anyways, this is a discussing best left for the modern general. I wouldn't like derailing this thread.

>>48362354
>combat damage

>>48362537
Welp. Nevermind, then

>>48362352
>planar outburst is a "destroy [all] creatures," so indestructible doesn't protect against it.
Yes it does.

>>48327825

>standard
>thinking you'll consistently have all 3 colors on T4 with the available manabase

nah bruh

>>48361972
You bet I've experimented. I don't think you are making the most out of the card with that list though. You should center on getting value out of sacrificing your creatures and emerge to REALLY bring out huge stuff fast. Here's the list I've been working on:

Eldrazi Emerge

Creatures: (28)
>Blisterpod x4
>Primal Druid x3
>Eldrazi Mimic x3
>Catacomb Shifter x2
>Matter Reshaper x3
>Foul Emissary x3
>Smothering Abomination x2
>Reality Smasher x2
>Distended Mindbender x3
>Decimator of provinces x2
>Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger x1

Sorceries: (4)
>Eldritch Evolution x4

You can basically get value of whatever you sacrifice and have something to search for that'll yield even a higher value and repeatedly emerge/evolve your creatures to get out the biggest scariest ones. I don't know wether to include Elder Deep Fiend for more emerge and I certainly need to polish the whole list.

>>48333161

played 2HG prerelease and one opponent had that. was annoying as fuck, especially because my partner was a dipshit and kept forgetting that was on the board.

he also couldn't get his shit in gear and build a 40 card sealed pool deck in the 50 or so minutes we were allotted. it was not a good prerelease event.

>>48361507
Post the list please. I want in on this hot enchantment jank

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>Donate exists in the format alongside an enchantment that can kill your opponent
>Dromoka's Command is one of the strongest cards in the format and is a 4 of in multiple decks

For fuck's sake

You were so close, Wizards

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>>48362352
Can indestructible things be destroyed, Anon-kun?

>>48362352
You're thinking of protection. Indestructible states "destroy and other effects that inflict lethal damage do not destroy it"

>>48347809
I actually think Mono white has enough tools, with powerful humans like thalia and her lieutenant and Lone Rider on the bottom and avacyn and Gisela on the top. Its fast and it plays the best cards in the format, and it has excellent removal like stasis snare and Declaration in stone.

I thing GB will be mid tier. Grim Flayer, Gnarwood Dryad and Demon are enticing enough that SOMEONE is going to try it.

I think Izzet spells is going to be a mid teir deck, and it looks like the most fun. I think that theres enough burn and disruption, and Thing in the ice is literally the perfect finisher, unless final word is your thing. Its just missing a big draw spell to complement take inventory, I dont like scour the lab or ugins insight.

>>48362352
Indestructible protects against that, Indestructible won't protect against things like Languish that reduce toughness to 0 however.

>>48362752
>>48362718
>>48362694
>>48362627
Shit, you're right, I was thinking of protection rules.

>>48362645
In my original draft I was running the Mindbenders and a Ulamog but the problem is we have no way to Evolve to stuff if it's in our hand, and if you draw that Ulamog you're just stuck with a dead card the whole game, mindbender is uncastable without an emerge target too. I just found emerge doesn't go well with evolution at all, the upper mana cost standard cards are just bad without the cast triggers and emerge and evolution both compete for the same resource which is 3~ Mana cost bodies on the field.

Honestly they probably just work in that BG aristocrats deck best to tutor up a Husk on demand. Which is a lot more similar to the list you're running, I'll check it out a bit cheers.

>>48362136
Some advice, card by card:
>Anafenza
You don't run this gal (or any legend for that matter) as a 4-of. She is a 3 of max.

>Bygone Bishop
Good, but not enough to merit being a 4-of. 2-3 tops.

>Reflector Mage
This guy ain't even a spirit. Its a good card, but there's better stuff with an actual synergy to be played instead.

>Westvale Abbey
I can't fathom what made you think Abbey was a good cardin this deck. It really is not.

>Clash of Wills
You are already running 4 Quellers and Wanderers and 3 Unsubstantiates, why do you need even more counters?

>Negate
Same as above

>>48362924
All this, except Reflector Mage is good enough to keep.
Also consider Thunderclap Wyvern rather than Always Watching.
Ocommand and Outburst/Declaration should be mainboard.

>>48362687
'Kay m8.

Oaths.dec

Creatures: (10)
>Herald of the Pantheon x4
>Riptide Chimera x1
>Eidolon of Blossoms x3

Planeswalkers: (9)
>Nissa, Voice of Zendikar x2
>Tamiyo, Field Researcher x2
>Gideon, Ally of Zendikar x2
>Ajani Steadfast x2
>Elspeth Tirel / Elspeth, Sun's Champion x1

Enchantments: (18)
>Promise of Bunrei x2
>Oath of Nissa x4
>Oath of Gideon x3
>Oath of Jace x3
>Starfield of Nyx x4
>Doubling Season x2

Sorcery: (2)
>Call the Gatewatch x2

Instants: (4)
>Path to Exile x4

Lands: (24)

>Plains x
>Island x
>Forest x
>Stuff x
>Stuff x
>Stuff x
>Westvale Abbey x3

As you see, it too needs to be polished. Feel free to take it, modify it, go nuts man.

>>48362917.
I'll address you tomorrow. Too late to write a wall of text

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>>48362924

>You don't run this gal (or any legend for that matter) as a 4-of. She is a 3 of max

Just in recent memory: Avacyn, Gideon, Anafenza (the Goatmost), and Jace Vice President would all beg to differ.

>>48362136

@shitbrew-anon, what dumb-dumb ^^ meant to say was that Anafenza isn't good enough to be a 4-of. It's hard on the mana, clashes with the reactive nature of spoopy spirits (she wants you to vomit your hand main-phase for extra damage), and just doesn't do enough to warrant inclusion in the deck.

>/tg/ is really bad at Magic

>>48362983
>All this, except Reflector Mage is good enough to keep.
I suspect otherwise but I can't assure it, since I'm too busy getting Modern Spirits to work at a tournament level rather than being a meme, so I work with such a bigger cardpool that sometimes I forget which spirits are in Standard and which are not.

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>>48348851
I'm pretty sure we all do.

>>48362924
Here's what i think about your advise:

>Anafenza
Shit, you're right.

>Bygone Bishop
It's my only way to draw cards man.

>Reflector mage
The tempo is too strong man. But I'd like to hear what you'd replace it with.

>Westvale Abbey
As it's a land, there's basically no cost to run it. Cleric's are there for when i flood/need an extra blocker in a pinch, and Ormendahl is there for style points.

>All the counter spells
This deck was more or less made to sate my urge to play a control deck without playing a control deck.

Thanks for your input.

>>48363034
Avacyn, Gideon and Jace are special circumstances to be fair, you can -4 a Gideon on the field before playing another one and 0'ing him. You can also have a flipped Avacyn as well as a normal Avacyn on board at the same time. Both of the above reasons also apply to Jace as well.

But that aside what you said regarding Anafenza is true, she isn't a good enough of a legendary to warrant 4 copies.

>>48363034
Avacyn is just so pushed it bends the format HARD.

Gideon you usually ult him right away or after making a few tokens, if you can get away with it. This makes him easy to run in multiples.

Jace is a 4 of because it flips, so you can actually have 2 on board and its unlikely to dig up the third and fourth in most games.

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>>48363140
>>48363156

>actually arguing with me

Jesus titty-fucking Christ. Yes, the ability to utilize redundant copies of your legendary is a nice little cheat to the 4x number. But it's not the entirety of the argument. Legendary cards can very easily demand being a 4-of if they're incredibly powerful and/or integral to the core strategy of a deck. Anafenza, the Foremost was a 4-of in Abzan Aggro because if you had it on turn 3 and your opponent didn't kill it, the extra copy in your hand didn't matter (because your opponent was dead). Polukranos was SO good in Devotion, you played 4 despite the legend rule. Geist of Saint Traft. Dragonlord Ojutai. Nykthos. Gaea's Cradle. Etc. So on. So forth. I could sit here all night and type out examples. I'm honestly not sure why I'm bothering to educate you fucking savages (maybe there's some kindness left in my heart after all?), but do yourself a favor and learn something from this - being a legend does not disqualify a card from being a 4x staple.

>But that aside what you said regarding Anafenza is true, she isn't a good enough of a legendary to warrant 4 copies.

She's not good enough to warrant one copy, anon.

>>48363259
So you think she should be cut out entirely from the deck?

Cause I'm still pushing for Tamiyo to slide in.

>>48363374

No, you need to maintain a certain threat density. Tamiyo would also fuck the mana up real bad (you want at LEAST 12 untapped blue sources for turn 1 Wanderer).

Creatures (23)
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Spell Queller
4 Nebelgast Herald
3 Bygone Bishop

Spells (13)
3 Ojutai's Command
4 Declaration in Stone
3 Essence Flux
3 Unsubstantiate

Land (24)
4 Prairie Stream
4 Port Town
9 Island
7 Plains

Nebelgast Herald is the piece that you're missing. It's a tribal Pestermite that can shift the race in your favor and plays well with the counterspells.

It's possible that 13 three-CMC spells might be a bit much for 24 lands, but between the high number of 2-mana spells, the clue generation on Bishop, and the low number of expensive spells (just 3 Ojutai's Commands), I think it'll be alright. I won't claim that this list is perfect (I literally wrote it up in about 30 seconds with zero testing), but I can guarantee it will be better than what you were working with. Understand that at the core, UW Spirits want to be a tempo deck. Go read up some literature on what that archetype means exactly, but for now, understand that you aren't an all-out aggro deck. You want to commit to the board early, and then play a Faeries style game of keeping your opponent off balance long enough for your dorky fliers to cross the finish line. Go read Mike Flores "Who's the Beatdown?", as it's critical for any tempo or midrange player to correctly assess their role in a given matchup.

>>48363582
>no reflector mage
what are you doing my man

>>48363259
I'm not arguing with you, I was just pointing out that you just picked some pretty bad examples to illustrate your point.

As for Anafenza It honestly depends if you're building "Spirits" or just "UW Tempo" to if you actually want to play her or not, the former is just a casual themed deck I mean she does generate a bit of nice synergy with Mausoleum Wanderer, but like you said she's not really great and wanting untapped WW on turn 2 is a pain.

That said there's far worse things with the deck the guy posted than the fact Anafenza is in it.

>>48363582
who's the beatdown vs tokens?

>>48363582
I like what I'm seeing, although the bant draw for Tamiyo and permeating mass is still pretty strong. Plus Tamiyo's card draw ability really boost card advantage as well.

>>48363658

It's not a spirit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Reflector Mage is better in a vacuum, but Nebelgast Herald plays better with the land-go core of the deck.

>>48363783
i've playtested with both and you just need reflector mage
i put 3 nebelgast in the sideboard for playing against humans and other fast decks but reflector mage is just too good

>>48363711

I don't think GW Tokens can continue to dominate in a Spell Queller / EDF / Thalia world.

That being said, UW Flash is the beatdown in that matchup. GW has significantly more inevitability, but will have a hard time protecting the planeswalkers and resolving the important spells. The deck popped up towards the end of this format specifically because 2/1 flash fliers are so good against Tokens, and it has done nothing but get stronger.

>>48363838
so what do you put in your sideboard to get faster in that matchup? drop bishops? st traft?

>>48362377

There is a planeswalker based combo deck in Modern that does run Doubling Season like you do. Cast Doubling Season then slam down Jace Architect of Thought and proceed to get 3x more JAOT's while also getting the best spells from your opponent's deck.

>>48362690
FFS you don't even need to splash a Color for Duress.
Now I need to run Felidar Cubs on the side for you fags.

>>48362726
It's looking very good, runs Emrakul and can cast it fast.
Also Gitgud Frog, never forget Gitgud Frog.

>>48363669

>That said there's far worse things with the deck the guy posted than the fact Anafenza is in it.

True.

>>48363850

Bishop isn't really where you want to be (trying to fight on the card advantage axis) but there are worse things in the deck postboard considering that they'll be trying to board into a control shell with sweepers. Ojutai's Command isn't the greatest (only good against the expensive angels, and you have Unsubstantiate and Herald to tap it down), nor is Essence Flux (they only run 4 Dromoka's Command, and Flux doesn't completely blow that out). I think you want cheap countermagic a la Negate/Clash of Wills to disrupt their game plan of becoming a control deck. Invocation of Saint Traft is suicide against 4 Dromoka's Commands.

All of this is conjecture, mind you. I've played zero reps of the matchup.

>>48362690

If they're tapped out they still die on Upkeep. Honestly Harmless Offering+Demonic Pact is a trap. That's not the combo that people should not be trying to make. The real combo people should be trying to make is to donate a Goldnight Castigator and then burn people to the face for double damage.

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>>48364035

>Standard combo decks
>No real draw spells or consistency enablers

Cool anon, let's play bad spells to make our other bad spells sometimes less bad.

>>48363099
Not him and agree with most of your views but Abbey. You have some decent colorless lands you could try like Sanitatium, Foundry of the Consuls and Seagte.

>>48364056

There are combo decks in standard, they're just not insta-win ritual/spell based combo decks that win straight up once cast but rather slowly choke out the opponent (Dark Petition+Season's Past).

Once you've swung in from the Goldnight Castigator and if you're sitting on 2 copies of burn spells like say Fiery Impulse or Exquisite Firecraft in hand you can just burn them to the face for 12 or 16 damage, plus it means a Goldnight Castigator drawn late isn't an entirely useless card. A bad spell isn't a bad spell if you can turn it into a win con or a clock on your opponent. Otherwise that's like saying Donate itself was a bad spell because it gives your opponent something of yours when ignoring the context of the combo it works with Illusions of Grandeur.

>>48364056
>No draw spells

Read the Bones
Succumb to Temptation
Tormenting Voice
Demonic Pact

>No consistency Enablers
Dark Petition

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>>48364161

Season's Past is a control deck, you buffoon. Both Dark Petition and the namesake card of the deck do things when drawn on their own. Harmless Offering literally does not have a text box unless you have your combo piece.

>le old deck false equivalency maymay

Again, this is why I meme arrowed STANDARD as a disclaimer. You don't have the tools to consistently enable your jank two-card combos.

But please, don't let me stop you from running Goldnight Castigator + Harmless Offering 'combo' into the Spell Queller Reflector Mage Elder Deep-Fiend metagame. I'm sure you've broken the format, bud.

Also, Fiery Impulse can only target creatures, fuck-stick.

>/tg/ is, once again, really fucking bad at Magic

I think Investigate is a good way to provide decks with card draw that normally can't. Are there any decks in standard that make use of it as a supplementary measure?

>>48364325
Harmless Pact is a playble deck.
That Goldnight Castigator build will never work, period.

>>48364223

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/10371_IllusionsDonate_in_Legacy.html

Read this article, read the text boxes on the spells that real combo decks get to play with, and then reread the shitty cards that you just listed. I'll wait.

>>48364337
Humans does it well with Thraben Inspector and Tireless Tracker.
Tracker is probably one of the best cards in the format. Let it live 2 turns and you may get 3 clues and a fairly large creature.

>>48364367

D
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O
M
O
K
A
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S

C
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M
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D

>>48364325

It's a control deck that relies on a two card combo to effectively win the game, that still qualifies as a combo deck in the Combo-Control archetype. Combo decks are usually broken down into a few different categories be it ritual storm based, big spell, combo control.

>Again, this is why I meme arrowed STANDARD as a disclaimer. You don't have the tools to consistently enable your jank two-card combos.

You have the card draw or disruption to make it happen in Standard, it's a little slow in both B or U colours but it can happen., all that matters is what your secondary colour is to protect and make it happen. You're right that Fiery Impulse can only target creatures, i was thinking of Fiery Temper and got the cards mixed up.

>>48364337
basically >>48364418
bygone bishop has the potential in spirits, but i'm not sure it's going to make the cut

>>48364404
>Legacy
Nice b8 m8.
We are talking about a format that usually passes turn 6 to end. Not about degenerate unfun games that need FoW not to end turn 1.

>>48364337

There are some Bant clues deck that abuse it with a loop between Erdwhal illuminator, Ulvenwald Mysteries and stuff like Tireless Tracker and Briarbridge patrol. It's a fairly decent tempo based deck.

>>48364427
Duress
Pact of Liliana
Pact of Chandra

>>48364325

>Harmless Offering literally does not have a text box unless you have your combo piece.

The whole point of it with Goldnight Castigator is to dump it off to your opponent when the time is right, it's not the primary combo to win the game. It's something you can do to offset the downside of that card once its value has been used up. There's no reason why it won't have some potential given that there's more cheaper burn again in Standard right now that you can effectively dome them for double damage with some spells.

>But please, don't let me stop you from running Goldnight Castigator + Harmless Offering 'combo' into the Spell Queller Reflector Mage Elder Deep-Fiend metagame. I'm sure you've broken the format, bud.

Who the fuck said anything about breaking the format? Spell Queller and Reflector Mage's aren't going to stop you from achieving your primary objective in a Red based deck.

>>48364477

>unfun
>need FoW not to end turn 1

And you're claiming my post was b8? Okay Mr. NeverPlayedLegacyBefore :^)

My point is that combo decks can functionally exist in non-rotating formats (including Modern here, obv) because of the depth of card draw, cantrips, filtering, and tools to protect their combo. I genuinely cannot remember the last time such a deck was actually good in Standard.

>inb4 trash meme deck that was tier 18
>inb4 deck that was good but clearly not a combo deck

Fuck Harmless Pact+Demonic Pact. Esper Pact is where it's still at. I will loop Lunar Force and Demonic Pact's FOREVER.

Dromoka's Command? PFFFFT. GOOD LUCK, I'M BEHIND 7 ENCHANTMENTS.

>>48364565

I mean, I don't know how you avoid dying to the aggressive decks of the format, but at least Esper Pact has a cohesive gameplan outside of some shitty combo, and can survive the most commonly played 2 mana instant in the format.

Anyone else here feel like Garrison in Limited is absolutely fucking broken? Every person at the prereleases I attended and the drafts following them that pulled the card won every single match in which they managed to drop it turn 3 if the opponent didn't immediately have removal at hand. Even the people using it agreed that the card is busted and a way too easy win.

It probably won't do much outside limited and some aggro strat in Standard, but its strength in limited is just retarded.

>>48364594

I just need to survive to turns 4, 5 and 6 onwards(as like most control type decks do)

The plan is that Dead Weight's, Stasis Snare's, Sinister Concoction allow me to control the board early on with some light counterspells in hand. I'm also maindecking Duress to hit planeswalkers and other supririse cards i'm not prepared for game 1 or cards i can't deal with too easily on the board(surprisingly other enchantments). Middle stage of the match I should have been able to cast Languish/Planar Outburst and stabilized or they're gassed out with their offence now a crawl and i'm looping Oath of Jaces or using Angelic Purge's saccing the Demonic Pact to get rid of their dire threats. Previously the deck had problems with Planeswalkers(Nahiri in particular being able to exile enchantments) but Imprisoned in the Moon and Lunar Force have now become the perfect answers in the deck synergy wise. Once Starfield hits then it's all ogre now.

The only one deck that is quite almost unwinnable is RG ramp decks all because of Worldbreaker. Really hard to beat game 1. But game 2 with Infinite Obliteration and Summary Dismissal to cancel triggered effects can even it up a bit.

I just don't let people know that Naturalise is in the format.

>>48364682
>Opponent gets out a creature with 3 or more power
>???

>>48364720

Tragic Arrogance is also a card that kind of fucks your shit up. Imprisoned in the Moon sounds like a very nice addition to the deck though. I'm interested ;)

>>48364682
Garrison is pretty fucking strong - its how I won at least 2 of my games. Swung over and over again, zapping anything trying to block it. I never got the other card to meld it with though - is that any good?

Trying to see if it would fit in my RW ally deck, or whether I should morph it into some sort of RW Nahiri enabler.

>>48364736
>opponent uses any combat trick or enchantment of the many available ones on it
>T4 5/6 Trampler spawning 2 1/1s each turn

>>48364477
>Not about degenerate unfun games that need FoW not to end turn 1.
If you honestly believe Legacy is like that you have a lot to learn.

>>48364849
I play legacy charbelcher

>>48364866
and that somehow means that every other legacy deck is a turn 1 kill?

>>48364756

I'm aware of Tragic Arrogance being a possible card brought in which is why I play more heavier counterspells in the side(now with Spell Queller that also attacks for 2!) and in previous lists I have ran Tragic Arrogance myself(easy way to wipe off all your Demonic Pact's while wiping the opponent's board.)

In most decks I will only have to face 2 Tragic Arrogance's, it's not a card that is likely to be played as a 4 of and I can still slap down a 2nd Starfield and start to rebuild again. In essence the deck is a "soft lock" prison control deck more than anything that has a very low curve(for a control deck) so can get away by running fewer lands than traditional control. I'll get as much mileage out of this deck as I can until rotation.

>>48364903
No, but it means I sure hope mine is.

I'm not the anon you're arguing with, though.

>2 boxes of SoI
>no angel

Fuck me sideways. Anytime there's a premium card over 20 or so I want I just get a box to gamble/ draft/ have fun cracking packs, but I just can't pull this shit.

Funny enough I pulled two foil olivias back to back. One box was from my LGS and the other from channel fireball. Aside from that nothing over 15 bucks or so.

Probably gonna get 2 ENM boxes for the sweet buy a box promo but only if I can get a deal. If I don't pull elder deep fried I'm gonna scream.

>>48365189
you get a promo card for buying a box? What promo?

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>>48365219

Foil alt art Thalia

>>48365544
uh wut m8? No sure what this reaction image is trying to convey

>>48365544
man that guy really likes chocolate cake, huh

>>48364020
I did forget about Em. How high the deck rises with be entirely predicated on how fast she can hit the board; Probably hits fast with some shenanigans. People will be caught off guard once. I predict it will be a sometimes thing after that one tournament.

Way cool but mid tier compared to beatdown.

>>48326388
I opened this at prerelease Saturday. Also opened a Famous but can't fit it in any decks.

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>>48365189
>there's a premium card over 20
Wait is that how much promo Thalia is?

>>48363259
>>48363582
>She's not good enough to warrant one copy, anon.
>A functional 2cmc lord isn't good enough to make the cut in a deck that makes the most of her ability
>Meanwhile Selfless Spirit and Nebelgast Herald are 4 ofs.
Pffffffff-hahahah.

I get where you are coming from with Herald, it's great but its most definitely a 3-of. Same goes to Selfless Spirit.

If you don't run at least two Anafenzas in a deck that flashes in and out plenty of creatures then you are doing it wrong pretty much. I'd go even further and cut an Essence Flux or even an Unsubstantiate for the third ghost of Anne Frank.

I'm interested in playing Modern, but I don't have enough good boy points to pay for a reasonable deck. Are counterfeits worth it at all, or are they way to obvious?

>>48365960

You interpreted my post wrong. I meant that if I am looking for a card that's over 20 bucks I will just buy a box instead. It sounds stupid but the thrill of cracking packs, or drafting/ playing sealed with friends is too good to pass up. It just so happens that I didn't get avicyn so I'm a little upset haha.

>>48348851
I think I'm the only guy in existence that reads it properly. Everyone kept referring to it as fried and I kept getting confused

>>48363582

>4 selfless
>4 Herald

Holy Fuck bud. This deck is a mess.

>>48349254
I think you should avoid 4 drops at all costs, also get rid of Ulvenwald mysteries. You have enough bodies and token creation already, just put more low drops and swing for face

>>48349763
>13/13 zombie
>Prerelease
That's pretty good

>>48366889
How is this in any way relevant to this thread?

So I recently returned to mtg and standard by way of playing at the prerelease.

And since years ago Akros won me a gameday I kinda want to go r/w again. With equipment this time. Here is what I have so far.

4 Sacred Foundry
4 Stone Quarry
4 Needle Spires
4 Mountain
4 Plains

1 Nahiri r/w - hoping to bump it up to 2 soon
4 Weapons Trainer
4 Stoneforge Acolyte
4 Stoneforge Outfitter
4 Kor Bladewhirl - not sure about this one

4 Stoneforge Masterwork
4 Captains Claws

I´m not sure what to include from the current block or what kind of removal I should use. Could anyone give me pointers?

Thinking about maybe including the land and red creature that turn into an two card eldrazi.

>>48363005
>Creatures: (10)
>proceeds to list 8 creatures
>mfw i have no face

>>48367274
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/399751#online
This is comparable to your deck.

So what is everyone brewing?

>>48357643
>>48358001
>>48359022
>>48359765
>>48359810
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/hanweir-3/
I took your advice and threw this together! Is it playable? I know it's not affordable for me right now but I'll try it out online.

>>48364763
i've mostly seen an RG aggro or naya midrange using it

>>48369098
spirits still

>>48369147
You are trying to do too many different things in one deck, take some of the suggestions but not all of them.

>>48367697
Yeah, I made a couple adjustments on the go and forgot to adjust that.

>>48367141
I'm certainly tempted to reduce the number of Mysteries to 3, but without them my ability to recover from trouble isn't as easy, plus it provides excellent ETB triggers for Thalia and Tireless Trackers while also covering card draw, which has proven effective on numerous occasions.

And those Heron's Grace Champions and Sigarda are the kick the deck needs to push it over the edge in the event of stalemates.

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Is this a viable combo, or is it way too expensive to play in the same turn?

>>48370103
>9 mana

I answered your question, didnt even read the cards.

>>48364035

I KNOW that a certain guy at my LGS will try to donate Pact.

I can't wait to Negate it.

>>48370126
Well it looks like boardwipe city, but maybe the game would be over by then. Are there cards which could potentially act as a "play x instant w/o paying mana cost" in Standard?

Should I be running TitI in a spells deck where I am also running curious homunculus and niblis of frost? I feel like the answer is no since it will bounce my stuff and hurt more than help probably when it flips, but I am not positive.

>>48326388
Gonna finally make my jeskai Nahiri deck. Probably gonna suck dick tho

>>48369147
This is a big, big improvement from the first version, but still, >>48369357 is right. You gotta focus the more and cut the more impractical cards and polish the card numbers and proportions to make the most of your deck.

The following should improve your deck:
>Cut Pyromancer's Googles
Sure, the synergy is cute, but its a card played in control decks with a high ammount of instants and sorceries, on the other hand, you are playing tokens/meld, you want speed, you want power and in numbers. That's why you want more versatile and impactful cards that'll give you a stronger early midgame to predate on the dominance of aggro decks in standard (as a general rule, aggro beats control, midrange beats aggro and control beats midrange)

>Cut Zulaport Cutthroat
There's no way to run 4 color decks in a fetchless standard

>Cut Nahiri's Machinations
This would be a good card in an Emerge deck that plays one big-ass creature, but that's not the case. You have an horde, not one big champion.

>Bump Linvala down to one copy
That's a card you want in very specific situations, like a midgame comeback and stabilizing the game. She's very good to play with Nahiri because the bounce actually works in your favor since you get two ETB triggers, which makes her an excellent tempo card. She also makes an excellent target for Bruna's reanimation, if she's in the yard... Which means that maybe its fine as a 2-of so you may mill one... You know, it'll depend in how tight the list ends up being, but maybe you should test it as it is.

1/?

>>48370103
Doable with Cryptolitch Rite. And token engines.

Probably completely useless outside casual.

>>48370904
>Bump Second Harvest and Devil's Playground down to three and two respectively
They are good, but they fulfill roles in the deck that require lower number of copies. Harvest is your alternative wincon, so that you may throw an overwhelming token offensive, and Playground is your lower-end curve topper. In other words, it's the card you want to draw in a topdeck war and you ain't got the mana for casting Bruna or the like, preferably while you got an Evangel on board.

>Up Duskwatch Recruiter to 4
Its good to have at least 6 1, 2 and 3 drops so that you may consistently have something to play in the first 3 turns of the game. Doing so speeds up your deck and will make it actually competitive, early game being so inportant this standard.

>Up Gisela to 3
She's your best answer both for aggro decks that can't deal with fliers thanks to lifelink, your best answer to aggro decks that use fliers, since she can pick them off easily, and can kill Avacyn 1 on 1 (though not on Avacyn's ETB, so mind that). You asli definitely want one in the yard if not in the field should you dig up a Bruna.

>Up Garrison to 4
Yes, this is a 4-of in this deck if there'll ever be one.

>Up Nahiri to 4
There's no understating how good Nahiri is in this deck, her + loots so she's a delirium enabler, her - kills so she's versatile removal and her ulti turns the game around with Linvala or outright kills with Brisela if Gisela is on the field already. It can also assemble Hanweir for a similar effect.

>>48364161
Fiery Impulse

does

not

hit

players.

The card has been in standard for like a year, yet people STILL make this mistake.

>>48371299

Yes i'm aware now, follow the chain of conversation and you'll discover it was a misunderstanding between Fiery Temper and Fiery Impulse.

>>48371269
Now for some card recommendations:

>Collective Defiance and Collective effort
The escalate spells are all amazing and will be estaples in plenty of Standard decks. These two are the most effective in your deck.

Collective Defiance mills and refills your hand, enabling Delirium, fueling your hand for the next turns when your options are not so good and setting up a win with Bruna reanimating Linvala or Gisela. It also serves as burn to stomp the control player and removal, which makes it versatile.

Any of these options would be lackuster on its own if you topdecked it lategame, but Escalate makes it so the Collective cards are excellent topdecks to gain ground in a topdeck war.

Collective Effort shines most in toke decks, so needless to say it fits here. It boosts your creatures so it'll help you overwhelm other midrange decks by brute force and is also creature and enchantment removal, whic is great for a format with Always Watchings looming. Still, this is a game 2-3 card that belongs in the sideboard, but its a staple in there. Collective Defiance is overall the better mainboard option because its effects are more generally useful while Effort's are reserved for more specific matchups. They are easy to swap one for another too since they fill the same spit on your mana curve.

>Declaration in Stone
You don't just play white without mainboarding a full playset of the best removal in the format, period.

>Nahiri's Wrath
This is a card people are sleeping on, because it's a surprisingly technical and versatile spell. On the first hand it can remove several creatures at once, which is specially true with you having a considerable number of cmc 3 and above spells, but in doing so, it also easily enables Delirium, although the best part is that it helps you get Linvala, Garrison and Gisela on the yard to get some Bruna Bullshit (tm) going. Overall it's not better than Collective Defiance but you should consider it your Collective Defiance 5-6.

3/4

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Is this shit going to be playable in Standard with the new Vampire support or should I just trade it away?

>>48372309
>Otherworldly Outburst
This basically reads R: Get value and maybe unexpectedly kill something. That's good i any deck, but the reason this is a 4-of here no less is that its an instant that generates tokens in a token deck that uses delirium. Thus its a card that will push the odds in your favor one block at a time and that will keep your opponent on his toes, since with it Second Harvest is quite more playable.

>Traverse the Ulvenwald
THE delirium payoff card. In a deck with plenty of x1s and x2s this card is a blank card that can be any finisher you want and is the main reason why Linvala is fine as a x1. It also fixes your mana which is crucial for a 3 color deck to be consistent. This is likely a 3-of in your deck.

>>48372751
Sell your Olivia, Drana, and Relentless Dead while you can.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE JESKAI HUMANS?

>REFLECTOR MAGE
>STORMCHASER MAGE
>HANWEIR GARRISON
>ALWAYS WATCHING
>GRYFF'S BOON
>DECLARATION IN STONE
>OJUTAI'S COMMAND
>OTHER SHIT

>>48372885

Possible, yes, but why would you not play Collected Company and the never-ending card supply of Duskwatch Recruiter + Tireless Tracker?

GW, Naya, or Bant are your options.

>>48326426
I should do this. Deck list?

>>48372869
Isnt Relentless Dead modern playable?

>>48364903
There is also Doomsday and Stax.
Fuck i'm the one who made that post and thought: "Hey, I really may have not seen Legacy games enough"
So I opened a XMage ongoing game and I see turn 1 one Iona on opponents colors. How do you guys pretend to have fun in this format?

>>48373246
Brb building jeskaihumans.dec

>>48372767
EXTRA: A word on Hanweir:

The big problem with Hanweir is that its a Declaration in Stone /removal magnet. That is why you should only meld it to kill your opponent in one strike. However, it being a removal can play in your favor. With Emrakul's Evangel on board its easy to lure out a Declaration to then generate a bunch of tokens and stomp next turn. That way you drive a hard bargain, the opponent has to either remove the tokens with declaration or hold it on his hand to keep Hanweir from tearing him a new one and get stomped by tokens.

It's a no-win situation for your opponent and your main concern when playing this deck should be forcing your opponent to pick his poison as soon as possible so he can't possibly live long enough to dig answers for it all.

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>>48372885
No. Just because Bedlam Reveler is a Devil and you only run Stormchaser in Prowess decks.

>>48373696
Though with those two guys and pic related U/R prowess mite b fun. Also Kaladesh is coming and odds are its a red-heavy block. Although red and blue will pivot around artifacts, so I don't know how many cards will be good in the U/R prowess deck, but there'll definitely be powerful UR spells.

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So I pulled a Spell Queller at prerelease. Sell now or wait until Pro Tour for it to rise?

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Holy fuck how do I beat spirits?
I can't cast shit and when I can they tap it every turn.

>>48374532
wait for PT, it's only going up my dude

>>48374532
Pro tour. There's talk about this card in Modern and it'll definitely be a Standard staple, Pro Tour will confirm so and it will rise like Avacyn did.

>>48374554
what are you playing?
humans are pretty great against it

>>48374839
... Then they'll decrease as boosters are opened, but this is the kind of card that remains valuable years after when all is said and done. And that maybe spikes to silly prices after some other card that works well wit it pops up.

>>48345004
>getting rid of vigilance + permanent boost for a flash +1/+1
The fuck?

>>48374851
RW Equipments.
I get an fast stard only to be toppled by those Ghosts, I don't run anything that can block flyers.
I'm thinking on running Gryff's Boon, Spidersilk Net or Angelic Gift. I'm afraid I'll just get negated anyway,

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Color Format Staples, yes/no?

>>48374994
>losing tempo on t3

>>48375019
Wouldn't Declaration in Stone mke more sense for white?

>>48375019
Sylvan advocate sees more play than tracker I think.

>>48375217
I liked when I ended only with creatures. But yeah, Declaration probably sees more play than Avacyn.

Should I exchange Pia and Kiran Naalar for Bedlam Reveler or Chandra Flamecaller? Fiery Temper?

>>48375252
They both see a lot of play, but I think Tireless Tracker is a much better card. Advocate dies once it rotates, Tracker is good enough to see play in Legacy.

>>48374994
>permanent boost
>in a format with DCommand
The fuck?
Also it's on a flash creature. Learn to play.

>>48364930
Post list!

>>48372751

I've been saying it time and time before but in all my time testing vampires, Drana just does not perform in Vampires list. If you want a better Anthem/Lord type effect then got with Stensia Masquerade. Multiples are never redundant and they're harder to answer plus they can be "flashed in" Madness style.

>>48375019
Green should be Sylvan Advocate

Tireless Tracker is good but literally every kind of deck wants a Sylvan Advocate. Aggressive, control, midrange etc. Same how every blue deck wants a Jace

bant spirits with coco can it work? Or is bant company/bant humans just better

>>48340106
Goldnight castigator has the same effective health and haste instead of trample which can make a huge difference, and has the same effective health and can situationally make you lose more or less life depending on how many times their respective downsides trigger

>>48377608
bant company/bant humans is just better.
spell queller is the one thing i think you'd like to put in, but don't go full bant spirits to accommodate it.

>>48377608
It cannot because Spirits is a tempo and collective company is for aggro / creature combo.

>>48377811
do you think tamiyo will be good in a spirits deck? Or is spirits pretty much just U/W?