Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

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First for Jaina did nothing right.

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>>48321714
Second for Horde deserve to burn.

>>48321300

Except the horde gets to win and even take gains like azshara with that fucking horde logo and andorhal where the alliance loses a flightpoint while the most powerful alliance leaders all become neutral questgivers

In WC3 my favorites were the orcs but I'm so tired of this bullshit, the alliance jobbing every time just to take the RvB rolling

>>48321750
It doesn't help that the Alliance has literal living superweapons in Velen, Malfurion and Jaina who could wreck the Horde by themselves but don't because plot contrivance.

>>48321732
>Theramore is allowed to exist because it promises neutrality
>immediately joins the Alliance after the Horde leaves it alone
>becomes the largest Alliance settlement in Kalimdor outside of traditional elven land
>begins funneling troops into the Barrens
>gets attacked as a legitimate strategic target
>why do they persecute me so?

>>48321714
FPBP

So I'm actually running a 4E Warcraft game to fill the void while some of our regulars are away. It's a Horde game and I thought I'd throw past the vague idea that I had just for some dumb adventure.

Party are in Azshara, working for Goblins who are doing their usual Goblin thing of strip mining and deforesting every square inch of the damn place. They break into some old cave system, rampaging earth elementals everywhere, a party is sent in to deal with it but they don't come back. The party are sent in to find out what happened to the other guys, turns out that earth elementals aren't the real problem as there are some buried Highborn ruins down there. Inside is/was a statue of Queen Azshara created by the greatest Highborn sculptor to ever live, and such was his overwhelming devotion (and madness) that he created a likeness so perfect that it became linked to her.

The previous party have become completely bewitched by the statue which possesses her enchanting beauty and all that, as well as passively mind-controlling people to obey the will of queen. I'm unsure exactly where to go from here but one of the party members is going to have run off with the statue and is off doing some nefarious demon summoning shenanigans. The Naga are present in Azshara doing stuff so maybe he's doing something involved with them?

It's not the most amazingly complex thing in the world but I wanted to create something that feels like one of those relatively long quest chains you get.

>>48321797
theramore was always part of the alliance you clod.

>>48321794

The Alliance has

>a navy, the horde pulled out theirs out of hammerspace despite not having a single port
>a factory city
>an airforce with helicopters, airfields and shit
>a spaceship
>established land with mines, farms, lumberyards and shit, not ravaged by war and not recently settled
>a floating city full of wizards
>a literal big G God
>all her ancients and demigods too
>even the dragons favor them
>spess windchimes too
>a 25.000 year old leader who can see the future
>not one but two commanders with 10k years of experience in guerilla warfare
>even some titan shit

But the horde wins everything everywhere and the Alliance is ebul rayciss for daring to strike back aganist the dindu orcs.

>>48321797
There's a difference between attacking a military target and committing genocide via nuke that vaporizes the souls of those it kills.

>>48321867
Didn't you play Warcraft 3?

>>48321659
Campaign Idea: Players are war vet's coming home from a tour of Duty in the Dwarven lands after helping their allies with getting rid of some flithy green skins in Grim Batol and some of the Wetlands as well.

However upon traveling on the Royal Highway they are attacked by small pests that shouldn't be within a mile of the damn place. This later leads to them finding out from local villages that Gilneas is at civil war with the half finished Gate as Darius Crawly and Glen Greymane are at odds over what to do with the Gate. Should it be open for all refugees or should it be finished post haste and left sealed?

Alongside that the Scourge is making it's move as roving war bands of the undead make their way through Silverpine heading for Dalaran. It's up the players to decide what they should do, join with Greymane's isolation idea or help Darius with trying to save as many people as they can through any means necessary?

After that I was thinking that Jaina might offer them a ride to Kalimdor as the months play out showing the land becoming drenched in sickness as the corruption spreads.

>>48321823
Theramore was founded when everyone assumed there was no Alliance in the Eastern Kingsoms anymore, and that the last remnants of anything that could be called an Alliance were the members of Jaina's expedition. As far as anybody on Kalimdor was concerned, until Daelin showed up to start shit, Theramore WAS the only "Alliance" that existed, and was specifically on neutral-to-friendly terms with both the Horde and the Night Elves.

>>48321915

Where the horde was a proud shamanistic underdog wishing for a new beginning instead of passive-agressive imperalistic cunts? Yeah I played that game.

>>48321750
Tbh the most powerful Horde leader also became a neutral questgiver in Cata.

>>48321932
We know that a lot of lordaeronians fled to beyond the alterac mountains and dalaran during wc3 and escaped to stormwind.

The alliance was never gone. It was there and theramore was still part of the alliance.

>>48321822
Well question does the statue know it's a fake or that its the real deal? If it's the real deal then it might try to get rid of the imposter that is running around all scaled and covered in Old God magic. So let's say that the converted Party and Statue go off and find these Naga, upon learning that the Naga are willing to listen to her, Statue uses the readily aviable man power to orginaze a proper foot hold in Azshara instead of WW2 blitz tactics of throwing more bodies into the grinder. Then from learning of her double she might attempt to either A: Summon her double from the depths with Naga/Highborn magic B Do what the original did and dally with demons while dominating them or C a mix of both using the demons to help get rid of her double.

The big end game plan for Statue however should reflect with what we know of the Queen. She /was/ queen and wants her damn empire back, be it from meticulously reconquering the world or using plot device to raise the seabed to reclaim what was lost.

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>>48321867
>Garrosh tells Sylvanas to invade Gilneas to get a port
>the forsaken start the invasion with a navy

who writes this shit

>>48322021
We know that now, but when the expedition was leaving, it was because the prophet said "The Eastern Kingdoms will burn, you need to be on a different continent now". At the time, there was no reason to believe anybody was still alive there.

>>48322053
the dark lady is just that good anon :^)

>>48322053
she got the Val'kyr to raise Lordaeron's fleet obviously

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Humanity will rise again.

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Would it be difficult to implement non!Abyss Watchers?

>>48322026
>>48322026
I was thinking that it's not truly sentient, or at least not for the moment, perhaps the longer it's 'activated' it starts to sort of form a consciousness and actual personality and goes for the whole "Fuck the 'real' Azhara, she's a fish now."

Of course the party is fairly low level so she's not actually going to be a threat to the real Azhara or anything on that scale, she's a statue with building delusions of grandeur.

Just came here to post RiP WoW TCG. Too good for this world.

>>48322380
just play Hearthstone anon :^)

>>48322398
Not gonna lie have had some fun playing hearthstone, but the WoW TCG was, bar none the best I think I ever played.

So, I've been hopping between either Troll Warrior or Troll Hunter. If I went the latter, I'd be aiming for a Shadow Hunter-type character. But something hit me while considering the former: how do you justify a Warrior in a world with Mages, Warlocks, and whatnot?

So whatever happened to Arthas' corpse?

>>48322474
>Implying warrior's Rage isn't just a form of magic, channeled through their body

>>48322474
warriors in Warcraft are basically muscle wizards. They get so fucking angry that they can bend reality and do stuff that shouldn't be physically possible.
who cares how much magic you can do when the guy you're fighting can turn himself into stone, reflect your spells, and spin so fast that you get pulled into his sword?

>>48322380
what happened?

>>48322503
jaina fucks it vigorously while crying to herself.

>>48322571
Also if you try and cast, they punch you in in the face to stop it.

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>>48322525
>>48322571
So it's less about being an average Fighter and more about being, say, a Barbarian or (if I can use Dragon Age as an example) a Reaver?

>>48321887
The mana bomb was neither of those things.

>>48322620
>a weapon so powerful it destroys theramore in ALL timelines
bravo blizzard.

>>48322616
they're probably closest to a mixture between the two. There's the rage fueled attacks of a barbarian, but they also have the more conventional soldier aspects of a fighter, powered by limited magic in the form of getting very mad

>>48322616
You're not quite getting how strong the best of the best warriors are in Warcraft. We're talking Hercules, Beowulf, and Gilgamesh-esque shit. You want to cast a spell that will make you fall slowly so you don't break your precious little legs? A warrior will just jump off the tallest possible building they can find and jump harder mid-air on the way down without taking any damage. The most powerful spells in an Archmage's spellbook can't even faze Sargeras but a really angry Orc with a magic axe made him bleed. And there's hundreds of these fuckers running around.

>>48322616
Pretty much. The Warrior class in WoW is less DnD fighter (who'se abilities are limited to "I make a full attack with my longsword") and more like the barbarian (tough as fuck, rages so hard they gain quasi-supernatural abilities), only unlike the barbarin he can also wear heavy armor.

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Post sexy liches

>>48322777
>timelines in which Theramore never existed just get a random explosion on an uninhabited island

That ought to confuse everyone except the Bronze Dragonflight.

>>48322830
Admittably, him being hurt by the axe was less to do with the orc being angry and more with the axe being blessed by a literal demigod. Which actually is consistent with the game; IIRC, Archimonde in WC3 is immune to all damage except chaos (done by other demons, and the fel orcs) and divine (done by Cenarius). Well, that and goblin landmines due to a programming oversight.

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>>48322824
>>48322830
>>48322831
Thanks, anons, I can work with that.

>>48322908
Don't matter how good your axe is if you aren't angry enough to swing it hard enough. You think some puny mage is gonna be able to wield a good axe properly? Obviously not. It takes the raw STRONK and MAD of a warrior to hit things really, really hard.

>>48322887

>implying it'll confuse anyone other than possibly the Murlocs and the black dragons nearby

Just imagine the timelines where Theramore is the biggest Human port city. Geopolitics are going to be fucked. And the anti-Elf humans who will claim the Elves did it will be right.

>>48322616
You also gotta remember than Warriors can either be frothing berserkers who run at you dual wielding two handed weapons, calm weapon masters who hit you so hard it shatters armor and makes you take more damage, or protectors who can literally ignore most of the damage that's being done to them

>>48322777
There isn't any evidence it did that, either.

There's mention of being able to glimpse into other realities from the blast, but nothing about it destroying theoretical alt-Theramore.

>>48321797
Well if it was controlled by a human and DIDN'T join the Alliance then all the players might get all confused!
This is the kind of logic people like Blizzard base their decisions on.

How big is Kalimdor and the eastern kingdoms compared to Europe?

>>48323046
Well, it takes about a days worth of travel on gryphonback to travel from Hillsbrad to the Wetlands.

Or a good chuck of the day to go from Karazhan to the Swamp of Sorrows/Black Morass.

>>48322995
>there are timelines where Theramore is the only remnant of humanity left after the Scourging
>8 years after the Third War it's completely annihilated for no discernible reason without any warning
spooky

>>48323016
the bz df pretty much states that theramore gets totalled in every timeline they see.

>>48322474
While mages are throwing fire and crap around as if there's no tomorrow, really powerful magic in Warcraft (based on WC3 and WoW) seems to be limited by various means... by being ritualsic with preparation and casting times, requiring more casters, specfic locations, or rare reagents or powerful artifacts. There are few exceptional casters who can ignore that (Medivh, Gul'dan), most mages are limited to combat spells which aren't that much better than smacking your foe with a sword or shooting at him from a cannon.

>>48323107
I wonder how that timeline's Arthas will feel about that.

>>48323134
>his waifu is dead
>mad LK invades our timeline to kill garrosh
>scourge 2.0 electric boogaloo.

>>48322053
>who writes this shit
Nasu

>>48323154
>>48323107
>>48322995

Can we all just admit that AU's and time travel are the dumbest things in fiction and smell more like desperation from a IP with a dwindling franchise than an actual progression or even viable character study?

>>48323118
Huh. I never saw that.

Which dragon says that, and where?

>>48323097
WC3 states a month from Stratholme (which really should have port... Lordaeron being surrounded by water on 3/4 of its border (north, west, south in Hillsbrad and east in New Avalon) and only having two harbors doesn't make mush sense) to Daggercap Bay in Northrend (two months from New Avalon to Dragonblight according to Abbendis' journal, but she notes her ships were heavy loaded and slow). Six days from Andorhal to border of Quel'thalas, but unknown travel speed, on the one hand, undead don't need to rest, on the other, armies move slowly. 3 days from Kel'thuzad's ressurection to Alterac (possibly with magic)

>>48323242
They can work, but only if they're the core premise you're exploring.

>>48323242
I agree with you. In this cade I think blizz did WoD because they wanted to refresh people for the warcraft movie

>>48323242
It can be done right. It wasn't done right in Warcraft

I'm still not sure why Bronze Dragonflight did nothing about Garrosh getting to AU 'verse. Even if they lost their power after Deathwing's destruction, time meant nothing to them, dragon from a time before that crap could've traveled to (his) future and smack them.

>>48323358
>I'm still not sure why Bronze Dragonflight did nothing about Garrosh getting to AU 'verse.
because it's not their problem. They're in charge of protecting Azeroth's timeways. Once Garrosh left they had no reason to care

>>48322380
WoW TCG was nice. But Hearthstone fills the gap well.

>>48323348
I really liked levelling in WoD. It was pretty nice as a standalone thing

>>48323326
I will agree, but the IP still needs to be exclusively about said premise.

>Back to the Future
>Rick and Morty
>Wolfenstein

All are good but only exist to explore the premise. It's terrible in everything else.

>>48323531
The leveling in WoD was great, and I'm glad Legion is going to continue it. I just hope the endgame in Legion will have content.

>>48323554
supposedly Suramar is one of the better endgame zones Blizzard has made, and we're getting more in later patches too

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>>48323301
>Stratholme (which really should have port...


>Stratholme, the chief source of Alliance oil in the north, is preparing to deliver massive amounts of oil to the kingdoms in western Lordaeron. You must sabotage their Refineries and Platforms to halt this shipment. Once Stratholme's ability to gather and process Oil is destroyed, proceed to crush any and all resistance offered by the Alliance.

It used to

>>48323593
>Zul'Dare

Man, I just wish they'd bring back Kul Tiras.

>>48323612
Yea, they seem to have forgotten about it completely

>>48323673
I was so dead sure they'd bring it back for Cata.

>>48323717
eh, they are coming back in legion.

>>48323454
Its hard to talk about Dreanor without Azeroth though, since their histories are so intrinsically linked. The flight must have known what happened to one would affect Azeroth in that timeline

>>48323454
Garrosh bringing Iron Horde through the Dark Portal made it their problem, though

>>48323531
I wish I played more WoD. It came out right after I graduated from college and I lost my place in my raiding guild because I had a potato router at home. I just got my palky to 100 then quit

>>48324047
>the raiding was the best it had ever been but the story was cancer.

>>48324047

>I wish I played more WoD.

You might be a first for something in your whole life.

>>48324306
I liked a lot of the minor stuff they introduced, like the Sargerei and more lore on the Arakkoa, and the idea of getting to see Draenor before it blew up was neat. Shame the basic premise is incredibly stupid, though, and so much content was left out that the whole expansion was pretty much gutted.

>>48324561
I think this is the general consensus. While the reason we got to see more Arakkoa was dumb as all hell, getting more Arakkoa was great.

>>48324561
pretty much this. The flying arakkoa almost made the entire expansion worth it.

>>48324561
Yea, the premise is idiotic. But as a standalone it started out well. It had so much potential and wasted all of it.

Like the garissons could have been proper customizable player housing..

>>48324434
It could be worse

He could have said he wishes for another year of Hellfire Citadel

>>48324742
>another year of Hellfire Citadel
They pulled another SoO?
t. Someone who quit early in WoD

>>48324742
At this time I am wishing for warcraft to die. Its like watching a brain dead relative on life support.

>>48324777
yes
also, checked.

>>48324777
HFC's first birthday was like a week ago, it'll be 14 months when Legion comes out

>>48324742
HFC would be more replayable if you didn't have to start with fucking assault. Fuck that fight.
(not 14 months replayable, but better)

>>48324806
I did Iron Reaver for the first time this week and I understand what the LFR version had DPS for needed role. That fight is garbage

I took a huge break from WoW and I'm not trying to get my ring before Legion, that's why I did it for the first time

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>>48321659
That art is shit. His hand is the size of his head...

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>>48324880
That's how Warcraft humans are proportioned.

>>48324880
Warcraft has always had questionable proportions.

>>48324877
ever fight sucks in LFR, Assault and Socrethar suck on every difficulty because their mechanics are silly

>>48324924
Never forget tiny orc shoulder armor

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>>48324909
I could start on how much i dislike wow, but i don't think that really helps here....

I would rather be covered in bees than be in this thread.

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What would've happened if Arthas didn't take Frostmourne?

What would've happened if Arthas didn't purge Stratholme?

>>48324880 (are a twat)
>>48325007 (are a twat)
Then why are you here?

>>48325007
No one is forcing you to post here you cad.

>>48325031
The undead would have gotten a massive army of zombies, and would have overwhelmed Lordrean anyway.

Somewhat related, does anyone know why the hell "The Guardian" seemed lawful good, compared to most of his old god worshiping chaotic evil reverent brothers? He seemed to genuinely want to protect Arthas from Frostmoure.

>>48325031
Dunno, I feel like asking that is in the same vein of "What would've happened if Elric didn't take up Stormbringer". The point being that one way or another, Arthas and his kingdom were doomed because of powers beyond their control.

>>48325031
the Scourge still purges Lordaeron, but there's no one to rebel against the Legion. Tichondrius isn't killed by Illidan because no one tells him about the Skull of Gul'dan. Azeroth burns

>>48325079
>Somewhat related, does anyone know why the hell "The Guardian" seemed lawful good, compared to most of his old god worshiping chaotic evil reverent brothers? He seemed to genuinely want to protect Arthas from Frostmoure.
he was probably supposed to be a ghost instead of a real elemental, or they knew it was evil because they could sense Ner'zhul's dark shaman-ness

>>48322908
>Well, that and goblin landmines due to a programming oversight.
Are you suggestion that Goblin landmines aren't made of Chaos and/or Divine whatsit, spot welded to a tiny blinking light?

>>48323034
Isn't Northwatch independent?

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Wouldn't it have made way more sense for the Iron Horde to invade their version of Azeroth? Wouldn't they have just steamrolled the humans? What would have happened in that timeline?

>>48325439
Odds are yeah, they would've steamrolled them. I could see their Medivh actually doing jackshit against the orcs since Sargeras isn't pulling orc strings anymore, so that might even things out in Azeroth's favor.

>>48325439
I kinda wish we would have gotten to see Alternate Azeroth. It's development will be pretty damn interesting, since it has No Orcs and No Scourge or the resulting of those.

>>48325439
Would have made the expansion bigger

>>48325439
Oh and the reason why the Iron Horde invaded main timeline Azeroth is because Garrosh wanted revenge.

>>48325536
Whatever goes to shit in that Azeroth, it'll probably be because of something that Sargeras-possessed Medivh does.

I completely disregard the bullshit of "There is only one Burning Legion in all of the timelines"

>>48325555
Which is kinda weird because they hadn't even beaten the Draenei yet and they wanted a new front.

Not to mention how they got Gul'dan to link the alternate timeline realm to the other.

>>48325592
Not to mention still crazy Deathwing, Ragnaros, and all the old God shit that needed two factions to join together to beat.

>>48323242
It's particularly strange in WoW because of the implied issues it would cause during the BC and Wrath CoT dungeons and raids.

>>48325503
>>48325536
>>48325592
I could probably see Sargeras!Medivh working to stop the Iron Horde invasion of AUzeroth out of spite, or maybe using the chaos created by the Iron Horde to conquer both worlds with the Burning Legion.

Or, with the Iron Horde's invasion, I could also see the Legion taking advantage of the desperation of the non-elf inhabitants (and maybe some of the elves, too) to sway them into Legion servitude.

>>48325636
Well, you wouldn't have Stormwind, Quel'thalas, Alterac, Lordaeon, Dalaran, and Stromgarde be wrecked in this timeline (no 1st, 2nd, or 3rd War). The issue is giving the impetus to actually get to Kalimdor.

>>48325503
I'm imagining the Dwarves retreating inside their mountains to weather the Orcs' sieges, the Humans fleeing to Kalimdor. They'd probably end up allying with the Night Elves and Tauren, though probably not the Trolls.
Hell, maybe the Trolls would ally themselves with the Iron Horde when they inevitably arrive in Kalimdor.

>>48325555
Oh, that's fucking stupid. Guess I shouldn't be surprised.

>>48325599
>Draenei get freed by High Elves from Orc slave camps on Azeroth

>>48325674
Oh, and in this Orc-less timeline, the Darkspear Tribe would've gone extinct most likely. As would the tauren because of the centaur, unless you can say they get desperate enough to ask for help from Tyrande's Sentinels in Ashenvale.

Hell you could even say the Darkspears can be saved the Zandalari because they don't another troll tribe to go extinct.

>>48325674
But war makes progress. All the crazy magic and gadgets we have now wouldn't be made in a time of peace.

Worst of all, no pandaren.

>>48325698
The Iron Horde is orc supremacist, so they'd force a bargain with the trolls similar to the one they made with the Gorian Empire. Which I imagine would piss the Zandalari off to no end.

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>>48325782
>Zoggosh and Koramar island-hopping across the Zandalari Empire with the Iron Horde's dreadnaughts

>>48325782
Everything from Cataclysm to WoD was about orc supremacists and the rise and fall of the orc-Ku Klux Klan.

>>48325698
>Hell, maybe the Trolls would ally themselves with the Iron Horde when they inevitably arrive in Kalimdor.
What trolls?

How is the official Warcraft rpg?

>>48325943
I guess it would be fine if you like 3/3.5 D&D

>>48325879
Jungle trolls, forest trolls. And assuming the Iron Horde starts messing with troll-kind enough, the Zandalari.

>>48325879
Sand trolls

>>48325943
It's 3.x D&D with some neat ideas thrown in, but about the same degree of balance.

The racial classes look pretty neat, at least.

>>48325879
Weren't there trolls in Kalimdor, or am I misremembering?

>>48325782
War with the Zandalar would probably gimp the Iron Horde's expansion at least.
>Tanks verses Loa
>Witch Doctors verses Shadowmoon
That'd be pretty dope

>>48326057
Not with all the flamethrowers, a trolls one weakness.

>>48326057
I think alternate Azeroth has a good chance between Sargeras/Medivh, Zandalari throwing their weight if they decide the Iron Horde threatens troll civilization, and the blitzkrieg jumpstarting the Alliance in Lordaeron.

And besides, tank battles in Dun Morogh would be so rad.

>>48326057
>Weren't there trolls in Kalimdor, or am I misremembering?
Those are the sand trolls, in Tanaris.

>The Scourge and the Burning Legion destroy Stormwind before they march to Kalimdor.

What would be the consequences for the alliance?

>>48326102
Sand trolls that are remnants of the Gurubashi's western presence (presumably to keep an eye on AQ), and then you have the Dark Trolls that would've lived in the Hyjal mountains caves.

And inexplicably, the Shatterspear Jungle Tribes that lives isolated in the Darkshore mountains.

>>48324306
Past the shitty time travel/alternate dimension premise the story was pretty good, there just wasn't enough of it.

>>48326159
Well, for them to have marched that far down, it means that all of the Eastern Kingdoms has fallen, including the black dragonflight, Ragnaros' forces, all the dwarves and gnomes, and also all of the trolls not in Northrend and the South Seas.

It means the only humans, dwarves, and high elves left are the ones who followed Jaina. Now, since it takes the Legion longer to get to Kalimdor, there is more of a chance that Tyrande just continues to wage guerilla war against the orc/human alliance, depleting them even more. She won't wake the druids until she finds out the demons have come back.

>>48325982
Not to mention the Dark Trolls, depending on the events in that timeline.

>>48326057
>Weren't there trolls in Kalimdor, or am I misremembering?
Sand trolls in Zul'Farrak and dark trolls in ashenvale.

I'm just curious as to which group of trolls you think would join the Iron Horde once they got to Kalimdor.

>>48326272
>>48326285

Dark trolls are a really small population group, and pretty isolationist. They just want to be left alone, so I don't see them getting involved with the Iron Horde unless they're attacked.

>>48326057
>Garrosh remembers the approximate location of Pandaria, and sends his fleet to find it
>when the mists lift, the Zandalari realize they can end the Iron Horde by resurrecting the Thunder King
>the Iron Horde and trolls completely destroy Pandaria fighting over Mogu artifacts and the Isle of Thunder

Garrosh invading past Azeroth would basically be playing with console commands on, he knows where and when all the cool shit is before anyone else even has a clue

>>48326314
I wonder if Garrosh would go for Y'shaarj's heart again.

>>48325782
Do you think the iron horde could deal with the mists from pandaland? Because what they'd really need to do is make sure lei shen isn't awoken again because otherwise FUN begins

>>48326330
It didn't work for him last time, but then he could throw the heart in the pools as some kind of WMD again

All out war between the iron horde and the zandalari on pandaria sounds fucking awesome, though. Why couldn't that be something like warcraft 4? RIP

>>48325079
he knew the LK'n'co would fuck his shit up hard time

>>48326314
>>48326331
Iron Horde vs Zandalari + Morgu while the refugees in Kalimdor just try and survive.

>>48326393
Never know, WC4 could be set in an AU. It would let them explore ideas that wouldn't disrupt WoW's status queue, after all, while still being 'canon.'

>>48326393
>It didn't work for him last time,
only because he then had to fight literally everyone else on Azeroth. In a world where the eastern kingdoms are crushed and scattered, the races of Kalimdor have no idea what he's doing, and his only enemies are the Zandalari, unleashing the Heart of Y'shaarj puts him in an objectively superior position to where he was in SoO, except for lacking an effective air force since the Dragonmaw Clan doesn't exist and the Klaxxi haven't been awakened

>>48326473
AU?

>>48326456
Since we're on the topic of AUs, anyone like any of the fluff for some of skins in HotS? Stuff like Shan'do Illidan or Malfurion the Betrayer, Warmaster Chen, and Hellhammer Thrall are pretty cool and make for interesting what-if scenarios.

>>48326488
Alternate universe. Like WoD's version of Draenor.

>>48326485
Come to think of, how did the original Horde find the Demon Soul? Because I bet finding that would also be Garrosh's priority so he could have dragon slaves. He'd probably assign the Thunderlord Clan to handle it.

>>48326492
I wish they had more fluff than just their blurbs. But yeah, they're pretty interesting to consider.

>>48326473
>WC4 could be set in an AU
It can't be good though so it doesn't matter where it would be set.

>>48326159
There would be no more alliance.

>>48326516
>Come to think of, how did the original Horde find the Demon Soul?
Deathwing either showed them where it was or straight up gave it to them, I forget what the exact canon is

>>48326538
Oh man, I realized in this setting, Muradin would forever be stuck with the Frostborn dwarves in Northrend.

>>48326564
Now that you mention it, how would Deathwing react to the Iron Horde? He probably has a good chance of stopping them if he wanted to.

>>48326581
If he wanted to. Deathwing wanted Armageddon.

>>48326485
There's still the dragonmaw clan, though. Remember the end boss on the train?

Also, as soon as Garrosh awakens the heart, the elder klaaxi will come to him, and then they can awaken the paragons and all that shit

makes me wonder what the other old gods would do if he took the heart so early, though; maybe the zandalari would need something batshit like leishen to handle all these shenanigans

Have sand gnomes been explained, or pygmies?

>>48326613
Deathwing hadn't gone that crazy yet. In Day of the Dragon he was still crafty and relied on manipulating people instead of going full axe-murdering, world ending crazy.

>>48326492
Frostwyrm Arthas looks godawful, but the lore of it is cool. Basically what would happen if his plan in ICC worked without Tirion lux ex machina'ing him to death

>>48326581
he helped the original Horde quite a bit, but that's because everything they did helped him. If Garrosh is in control then it might result in a war against him because Garrosh would be onto his game. Also, assuming that Garrosh intended to claim the Heart of Y'shaarj, Deathwing would have no reason to impede him since he's been serving N'zoth off and on since the WotA

>>48326616
Skylord Torva was a Thunderlord, but if Garrosh intended to go after dragons than he'd probably use the Thunderlords since they have rylaks and experience trapping large beasts

>>48326685
Oh yeah, right. Hell, if the thunderlord manage to get the demon soul then they're more or less set taming dragons, and they could probably be a good threat to the zandalari dinomancers

>>48326159
The expedition, thralls horde and the night elves team up faster and kill eachother to a lesser degree.
They win the war with less losses.

WoW comes around and blizzard needs Blue vs Red factions.
Human capitol is in Stromgarde(they decided Stromgarde wasn't as fucked it turned out to be in WoW), Kul Tiras or Theramore.

>Original WoW
EK: 1 vs 3
Kalimdor: 3 vs 1
>Stormwind wrecked WoW and Theramore is the capitol
Then you'd have
EK: 1 vs 2
Kalimdor: 3 vs 2
And that shit isn't symmetrical so Blizz would have to adjust it.
Undead TFT campaign was very much set up so undead could be playable, so TFT might be different, but that's too complicated to think about so lets say it isn't and the Forsaken is still part of the Horde in WoW.
You'd need to add 1 race to each faction in the easter kingdoms, or 1 to horde in EK and 1 to alliance in kalimdor.
>EK: 2 vs 2, Amani+Forsaken vs Gnomes+Dwarves
>Kal: 3 vs 3, high elves+night elves+humans vs orcs+trolls+tauren
or
>EK: 2 vs 3 Forsaken+Amani vs Blood Elves+Dwarves+Gnomes

If the capitol is in Kul Tiras or Stromgarde it's much simpler.

>>48325758
Not sure the Tauren would've gone extinct. They seems to have managed to hang around for a very long time even with the Centaurs attacking them. But without the Horde, they wouldn't have been able to drive the Centaurs off and reclaim Mulgore, so they'd be stuck as small bands or nomads, contantly moving to avoid roving bands of Centaurs.

>>48325811
Those guys were one of the better things about WoD, despite only appearing in one instance. Their banter is very entertaining.

"Good thinking, sir!"
"That is what I do, Zoggosh. I think good."

>>48326616
I can't imagine that some of the clans in the Iron Horde would be too happy about Garrosh sucking down an evil heart. I'd imagine most of the Warsong, the Shattered Hand, Bleeding Hollow and maybe some of the Shadowmoon would be on board.

>>48326685
Hell, maybe Garrosh's splinter ally with the Black Dragonflight
Goddamn, factions are sprouting from the woodwork.
>Grommash led Iron Horde
>Garrosh Corrupted Horde + Deathwing
>Troll Empire
>Morgul Empire
>Kalimdor refugees

>>48326775
I don't see Garrosh splitting from his dad, even if it's not technically his actual dad.

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>>48326492
>Judgement Uther: Although he survived Arthas's brutal assault, Uther was unable to prevent the fall of Lordaeron. Now under King Varian's banner he leads the Silver Hand into Northrend to mete out justice.

>>48326775
Well the shadowmoon would probably do alright with him using fleshy shadow magic, really. The rest has more or less been 'prove your worth and don't drink demon juice' and old god stuff doesn't count as demon juice. Really they just want to conquer and rule everything

>>48326796
But would Grommash approve of using the heart? Wouldn't he see the heart's corruption as the same as the demon blood?

>>48326492
They're pretty cool! Though I don't really get Hellhammer. Is it implying that Gul'dan didn't corrupt them?

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>>48326811
Holy shit, that is just too good.

>"I should've cut you down where you stood at Stratholme, boy."

>>48326836
>Go’el, the new Warlord of the Ashwolf clan, lifted the shattered Doomhammer from the Blackrock chieftain’s corpse. Of his father’s betrayers, only Gul'dan remained.

I guess in this AU, he was somehow raised by orcs and took revenge on Blackhand (maybe Doomhammer).

>>48326775
also, as long as Garrosh could hold off his enemies, he can keep corrupting his followers with Y'shaarj's power. Imagine fighting an Iron Horde where members of every single clan are constantly getting powered up to Malkorok's level by old god corruption

>>48326823
>>48326836
most of the Horde readily drank the blood of Mannoroth after Garrosh's death, they only had a problem with it because Garrosh told them they should, then they either gave in or died. If Garrosh tells them that they're getting superpowers, they'll get superpowers.

blood and honor Zoggosh, that is all that orcs understand

>>48322053

The Forsaken navy is composed of ships dredged up from the bottom of the ocean. Most of them were once among Lordaeron's fleets.[14]

Source is Ask CDev.

>>48323118

Source?

>>48326564

Zuluhed and the Dragonmaw saw it in a shamanic vision between WC1 and 2. Thing I never understood, though, was how did the Dragonmaw get their name? That was their clan, on Draenor, which had no dragons. Nobody encountered or had even heard of one until the found them in Grim Batol.

>>48327123
I think it might be a good idea to say the Dragonmaw branched off the Thunderlord Clan. Kind of like how the Black Tooth Grin split off from the Blackrock.

>>48327123
Either is was coincidence like Blackrock and the mountain, or the Dragonmaw didn't actually form until the Second War

So lets assume Draenor and Azeroth never make contact in another alternate universe? What happens, and lets assume that Draenor is using the history presented in WoD.

>>48326473
>WC4 could be set in an AU

That would be the dumbest thing they ever did, and this is blizzard we're talking about.

Like AoS sized backlash and shitstorm.

>>48327146

That's probably the case. Happened to be rereading The Last Guardian books, and I just came to that part. Blackrock Mountain was coincidence, which they took as good fortune. Dragonmaw are inside having visions of a strange new weapon, and it got me thinking.

>>48327190
Well trolls for one would get stomped by Lordaeron, Quel'thalas and Stormwind until only a bloody pulp is left, taurens wouldn't inhabit Mulgore or even be completely wiped out since no orcs come, the Scourge in it's WC3 form wouldn't become a thing, so Lordaeron would probably survive, being the single largest human kingdom, night elves would never come in contact with the Alliance and any demonic incursions would be most likely caused by Medivh, but only small ones since he gets his ass kicked anyways. But since WoW has to have darkness in it, i would say that the human kingdoms begin a war with each others, high elves would still be assholes and old gods win.

>>48327190
arakkoa pride worldwide
burn the lesser races, sun wars now

>>48327272
There's a good chance Medivh would never get found out, since there would be no orcs that would draw Aegwynn's suspicion to him. Which means Khadgar would not summon up the visions proving he was possessed by Sargeras, or the one where he met with Gul'dan via dream magic.

>>48327275
If WoD Draenor's past is canon in the main timeline, the Sun didn't help them against the Horde when they drank the Blood of Mannoroth.

>>48327272
>Well trolls for one would get stomped by Lordaeron, Quel'thalas and Stormwind until only a bloody pulp is left

You mean stromgarde?
Maybe another troll war would be coming because of Zul'jin, but it may just stop at some skirmishes like it has since the troll wars.

>night elves would never come in contact with the Alliance
Alliance isn't a thing

>>48327362
Alliance is eternal and has been forever, you damn green lover

>>48327272
>taurens wouldn't inhabit Mulgore or even be completely wiped out since no orcs come

I really think that if it came down to it, the tauren might go to Ashenvale to ask Tyrande and/or Cenarius for protection. Since the Night Elves took the protection of Kalimdor as their duty, the centaur would threaten that balance.

So I could see the next big war in Kalimdor being the War of the Centaur.

In Northrend, Azjol-Nerub keeps doing it's own thing, and I don't know if the vrykul will awaken.

>>48326986
>>48327190
Gilneas and Kul Tiras are probably safe from being invade by other human nations.

I guess they might find out about Kalimdor eventually.

No Paladins.

I guess it all depends on why Draenor and Azeroth doesn't make contact.
The legion ignores Draenor and doesn't go for the blood pact?
Well they still have their eyes on Azeroth, Sargeras is still in Medivh.

They'd try to find a way in.
Maybe another world, but it could be delayed so medivh/sargeras could work with the local nations.

>>48327352
if we assume the Legion still comes then the orcs kill everything on Draenor and then play grab ass until they all die of being savages

>>48326314

They'd still have to deal with the Sha awakening and fucking up the Iron Horde hard, and the Shado-Pan doing hardcore guerrilla tactics.

The former could be dealt with if Garrosh explained what it was and what it could do, but aside from him, no one could quite handle it.

The latter? Hoo boy, the Shado-Pan are BUILT for those kind of shenanigans. Plus you know, ninja-monks out of nowhere. And who knows if an AU Taran Zhu could completely push Garrosh's shit in immediately or not?

>>48327434
No orcs would mean that the chances of Medivh being found to be possessed by Sargeras go down, especially as he more or less killed of the rest of the Council of Tirisfal, or at least focus on getting rid of the last of them. So I could see him using demons to foster animosity between the human nations to create enough chaos to where he can begin to open a demon gate to begin summoning the Legion. Maybe he'd find a way to have the other human nations declare war on Dalaran and Quel'thalas?

As for Draenor, the only reason I could see the Legion ignoring it is if the draenei never settle there. From here we can go two options, we can either not use them at all, or we can have them land the Genedar on Azeroth if we want to keep them.

>>48327490
>Taran Zhu could completely push Garrosh's shit in

You mean Taran "Literally bounce off Garrosh's steel pecs" Zhu?

>Reginald Windsor says: You will not escape your fate, Onyxia. It has been prophesied - a vision resonating from the great halls of Karazhan. It ends now...

So was the Karazhan just a name drop, or is there something about that old quest I'm missing?

>>48327490
>And who knows if an AU Taran Zhu could completely push Garrosh's shit in immediately or not?
the only problem Garrosh would face against Taran Zhu would be lack of name drops when he threatens to impale him

>>48327190

It's rather hidden and not explained all the way, but in Draenor on the coasts you see a lot of mushrooms and fungal creatures starting to creep in. And they're the heavy, Cordyceps-esque mind and body control kind. More than likely Draenor would be screwed hard because in a decade or so, they'd have to be fighting against a fungal invasion.

>>48327700
The Arakkoa might go full "burn fucking everything", and the Breakers giant faction fighting in Gorgrond might be able to balance out the fungus.

But yeah, now that you mention it those fungi are pretty spooky. Oh and also I think one of the garrison missions says that there's an arcane anomaly that's tearing it apart. But I might mixing it up with the mainline Farahlon.

>>48327813

You're probably thinking of Vargoth's recruitment quest, which mentions main timeline Outland as slowly breaking apart and Netherstorm (and possibly Tempest Keep) as gone.

>>48325674
IIRC, 7 kingdoms were about to start a war over trade, Horde invasion forced them to join force against common enemy.

>>48327867
>Outland as slowly breaking apart
Netherstorm wasn't stable at the best of times, so that isn't a clear indication that the rest of Outland is in danger.

>>48325766
>But war makes progress. All the crazy magic and gadgets we have now wouldn't be made in a time of peace.
Like Paladins who were an innovation created to combat the orcs and their dark magics.

I guess Uther would just stay a cleric in Northshire.

>>48325674
>The issue is giving the impetus to actually get to Kalimdor.

You have dwarves who like to explore, and you have some coastal nations.
It's a large ocean though, but eventually they'd get there.
If they're lucky they get the info about Kalimdor through goblins.

>>48327968
I've always thought that the goblins knew about Kalimdor shortly after they revolted against the trolls (I think WoW Chronicle puts it about 100 years before the Dark Portal opens), but they kept it secret so they could monopolize it for themselves. However they lacked the military power to actually get further inwards because of the Night Elves and Centaur.

I have a little theory of mine that they traded with tauren though, guns in exchange for animal pelts/protection, which would explain why tauren hunters start out with guns.

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>Know that Legion will be bad and i'll go from playing to disgusted with it in 3 months like I did with WoD
>Still kind of want to play it for my DK.

I will just hold back, know it will be bad and blizz fails to deliver and the lore will be terrible. I just wish other games had classes as fun as death knight.

>>48327190
The Scourge would not exsist. Specifically Kel'Thuzad never goes to offer his service to the LK and thus never starts the CoD. Because of this intrepid heroes never get stronk & Deathwing destroys Azeroth in the Cataclysm

Source- It's a wonderful life, Thrall!

>>48328153
Deathwing only seemed to go completely bonkers+ Old God power boots until after the dragon aspects got their powers back from breaking the Demon Soul.

>>48328035
>I have a little theory of mine that they traded with tauren though, guns in exchange for animal pelts/protection, which would explain why tauren hunters start out with guns.
I hate that theory.
Prefer it as a post wc3 development.

They didn't look like they'd have guns in wc3.

>>48328207
>They didn't look like they'd have guns in wc3.

I can chalk that up to limitations of what Warcraft 3 could show. And yes, I'm aware that I have nothing to back me up.

>>48328207
I think tauren wouldn't be very interested in trade with goblins, tauren are "muh nature" and goblins are "strip mine everything" (see Venture Co. in Mulgore). Perhaps if tauren had bigger problems on their hands, but I don't think they would tolerate goblins for long.

And according to WC3, goblins were in Kalimdor before the Horde: when Warsong invaded Ashenvale, they met goblin who was surprised to see orcs there, and Thrall bought goblin zeppelin(s?) to get over Alliance blockade of Stonetalon Peak

>>48328183
I think thats irrelevant since he never imbuded his own power into the disc. It breaking just effects his ego. Additionaly, that is an event that could have potentially happened without orc involvement, but I'm not sure how

>>48328547
He was also pursued by all the other 4 fully powered Aspects. So not only did his ego take a blow, he was also hurting really bad. It probably drove him even crazier. The impression I got from him in War of the Ancients and Day of the Dragon was that he wanted to rule over Azeroth, not destroy it. And I know >Knaak, but in the War of the Ancients' third book he kept trying to claim the Demon Soul. Even when the voices in his head were telling him to desist, which he took as a sign that he could only trust himself.

He didn't go full on "crashing this planet with no survivors" until after he spent about 20 some-odd years stewing in Deepholme after getting his toy broken and the shit kicked out of him.

>>48328207
Vanilla implies Tauren actually produced their own firearms and prefered them to flimsy bows.

>>48328207

The one thing WoW really did well was showing how all the cultures are influencing and taking stuff from eachother.

Is there a reason Uther couldn't be/hasn't been raised?

>>48329702
A combination of respect, his soul has been trapped for most of the time since he's been dead, we don't know the condition of his body (remember it took the power of the Sunwell to bring back Kel'thuzad after he'd only been dead for not even a year) so there probably isn't much to raise beyond a skeleton at this point. And also he might be too sanctified by the Light to resurrect by anything except the most powerful of forces. And his body is probably one of the most defended holy sites.

Those are my guesses.

>>48329790
Yeah, that seems pretty fair, I was just thinking about it since DKs are going after Tirion for the fourth rider, poor Uther is sitting there resting right near the plaguelands.

>>48329790
Uther's grave is a big fucking deal. I remember the quest where an angry elf paladin sends you to desecrate Uther's grave. When you do, Uther himself appears and forgives you and the paladin for the action. The elf was still angry.

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>>48329702

The last pieces of Arthas' humanity and respect for his teacher is probably why.

Although I'm still not sure why Ner'zhul didn't have some of his forces at Andorhal steal Uther's body when Arthas killed him for the Urn. Maybe he was too powerful to be raised or maybe Ner'zhul feared the potential of Arthas teaming up with undead Uther to overthrow him.

It's implied his body was cremated but we don't know for certain what happened to it. Blizzard could pull the troll card on us and have Undead Uther being the new leader of the Cult of the Damned and be behind the non-Dreadlord controlled Scourge shenanigans in the Western and Eastern Plaguelands.

>>48329910
>Evil Uther
People would fucking riot, you have no idea.

>>48329702

Paladins are immune to the plague and undeath unless they turn willingly.

>>48330140
There was that quest where a paladin is dying of the plague, and no remedy could possibly save him. The best the naaru could do was save his soul before it was lost as well.

>>48330036

The controversy would probably drum up some subs.

>>48326811
>>48326863
I want it to be real

>>48326492

Blood Human Arthas is edgy as shit. But I like it.

>>48330186

That was a shitty non-canon memorial to a developer. It was said in the Wc3 manual that paladins are immune. You think you could really summon A'dal to a land of undeath for the soul of a single paladin?

>>48330811
What's the fluff for that?

Bain should have been Warchief after Garrosh.

Vol'jin's still cool, though.

>>48332011
Vol'jin was the last remaining member of the original Horde trifecta (Thrall, Cairne, Vol'jin). He gets priority.

>>48332057
True, I guess.

What? Were you expecting me to start screaming at you like a small frog?

>>48332416
And that's why Sylvanas is the new Warchief after Vol'jin's apparent demise. Out of all the other leaders (Baine, Lor'thermar, Gallywix, Saurfang), Sylvanas is the longest-reigning racial leader in the Horde, so she takes the throne by way of seniority.

>>48332482
And she's doing a terrible job at it.

RIP Varian.

All hail King Greymane.

>>48332482
Which is stupid, since she's been a leader that doesn't really give a shit about the rest of the Horde.

Saurfang may not want the job, but the Horde could really use him with the Legion bearing down on Azeroth again.

>>48327159
I was under the impression that it was the latter. Blizz actually was at some point in the WoD preview stuff make a mention of Dragonmaw clan on AU draenor in some of the flufftext, but removed that after somebody pointed out that they didn't exist until the Horde came to Azeroth and started enslaving dragons.

Considering the Thunderlords also have shtich of capturing and training large beasts, it can probably be assume the Dragonmaw clan is an ofshoot of Thunderlords formed to take care of the Horde's dragon weapon (although IIRC, Thunderlords being on AU draenor is in itself also a retcon, as I think they were originally mentioned as being one of the clans created only after the formation of the Horde and invasion of Azeroth. In that case, though, the retcon dates toTBC, which already had some places named after them in Outland).

>>48333907

This. Literally no better leader exists than Saurfang.

>one of the strongest, most experienced warriors ever born in a society where might makes right
>fully lives up to the orc warrior ideal
>old and wise
>completely accepts his part in warcrimes and is repentant about it, actually feels guilt
>on good terms with the alliance
>has experience commanding armies
>even commanded the multinational Might of Kalimdor in vanilla
>beloved in-universe
>beloved by players

>>48334029
I honestly don't know why Blizzard won't put him in. If Thrall chose him from the get-go, we wouldn't be having this revolving door of warchiefs.

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>>48333907
>>48334029
>>48334054

I'd be fine with Rexxar, too.

>>48334080
Rexxar at least has the plausible excuse that he'd rather be out living innawoods.

>>48327521
>As for Draenor, the only reason I could see the Legion ignoring it is if the draenei never settle there.
Could also be that they never found it (or hadn't found it for now). The Draenei did manage to remain hidden on Draenor for hundreds of years before the Legion stumbled onto them pretty much by accident. It's entirely possible that on the alternate Draenor this only happens more several centuries later.

Also, the Legion 's vendetta against Draenei was apparently Kil'jaeden's pet project. One of the lines Archimonde says when you use the Legion Communicator toy in WoD (which lets you eavesdrop on Archimonde issuing commands to his underlings) is that he personally doesn't really give a shit about the Draenei.
Kil'jaeden is mentioned to have "loved Velen like a brother", and apparently went full yandere on him, feeling personally betrayed when he rejected Sargers' "blessing" and choose to run off with a bunch of windchimes instead of hanging out with KJ and Archie as the commanders of the Legion.

>>48334096
So it all becomes a question of how does orc society develop without Demons or Time-travellers fucking with things?

>>48334095
Yeah, but I like the cut of his jib.

>>48334054

Cause Red vs Blue. Literally thats it.

Intsted of the slower, more nuanced proxy wars and clashes of vanilla and basing a story on those we gotta have some HUGE and EPIC war with continously upping the stakes but cant show any of its effects or buildup so we will get some leaders roleplaying about muh people and muh peace before everything snaps back to status quo. The cutscene ending the siege of Orgrimmar was literally the most unfulfilling ending in any media I have ever encountered. It gave zero closure, the Alliance achieved nothing, their numerous grievances were completely ignored and the Horde had its capital raided and fucked up for literally nothing and all of its conquests undone.

>>48334096

IIRC that was mentioned in the Velen short story too, KJ REALLY wanted to go and do stuff together with his bros and never got over it. Velen even keeps musing over what if he accepted Sargeras' offer for like the fifth millionth time over 25.000 years.

Also, I'd really like to see some alternate takes on the draenei, what if Velen accepts the offer but KJ or Archie goes with the naaru. The Legion would get far more preachy and religiously fanatic for sure. KJ could do his cunning thing on the good side, his draenei agents constantly infiltrating worlds, trying to quell disputes convince, trick or just force every nation to join the army of the light for their own good.

>>48334054
Saurfang as warchief wouldn't suit the status quo of Red vs Blue pvp they've been forcing since Wrath/Cata. He's actually smart enough to not want to start yet another war with the Alliance, and respected enough that the orcs would actually listen to him (and if they didn't, he'd personally cleave every chucklefuck that fucks things up). Probably would've worked if they kept the political situation like it was with vanilla: Horde and Alliance are essentially in a cold war, with neighter side liking the other but also not engaging in an outright war (pvp ares in vanilla are more about small skirmishes around contested areas, invonlving some sub-factions withing Horde and Alliance instead of the factiosn proper, with the PCs essentially being mercenaries hired by one of the groups to attack the other; for example Silverwing Sentinels get PCs to attack the Warsong lumbermill). But since then the lore has gone into the two being in a full-scale war, except when they team up against the baddie of the current expansion and then go right back to fighting.

>>48325031
He would have married his waifu.
RIP, best king.

If they add new races to the factions in Legion, or the expansion after it, what do you think they'll be?

I bet Horde will get Murlocs.

>>48335016
>meme race for meme faction
checks out.

>>48335016
I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE

JUST GIVE ME FUCKING OGRES, ALREADY

OR AROKKA, THOSE ARE COOL

>>48325031
>What would've happened if Arthas didn't purge Stratholme?

The scourge would've been more powerful, turning one of the more populous cities in Lordaeron.

The % of the living left in territories conquered by the scourge would be even less.
They say 90% of the elves in Quel'Thalas died, maybe that % is 92% now.
The scourge would be able to push further.

>Gilneas, Zul'Aman, Southshore, Hinterlands, Stromgarde.
Gilneas has the wall so I imagine they're safer.
Maybe southshore is gone, maybe a troll tribe in hinterlands.
I think the wildhammers make it.

Or they just bring a larger scourge army over to Kalimdor.

>What would've happened if Arthas didn't take Frostmourne?
He returns a hero. Reconciles with Uther and keeps fighting the undead.

>>48321714
What about Taurajo and the march upon Crossroad? That was even before anything Garrosh ever did.

>>48336153
>What about Taurajo
never forget. Theramore deserved 2 mana bombs

>>48336139
the thing is, how would the scourge be able to push further? The scourge led by arthas was the primary reason why they won. Terenas was the rallying figure for all the lordaeronians and when he died, the kingdom died with him.
>>48336153
>>48336467
>some collection of huts that the alliance allows the civilians to abandon.
>the cowmen run into the quillboar and die.
how is it the alliance's fault again?

>>48336544
>the thing is, how would the scourge be able to push further? The scourge led by arthas was the primary reason why they won. Terenas was the rallying figure for all the lordaeronians and when he died, the kingdom died with him.

I saw the two questions as different premises.
I answered what would happen if Arthas didn't purge Strath, and took frostmourne.

Then I answered what would happen if Strat was purged, and didn't take frostmourne.

>>48321714
Garrosh did nothing wrong by nuking Theramore

>>48336544
>start slaughtering civilians
>intentionally leave a hole in the lines to funnel any escapees directly into the quilboar
>we dindu nuffin, they could have just stayed :^)
never trust a pinkskin

>>48336564
How does he take FM if he doesn't purge stratholme. If he sits on his ass like uther wanted him to, watches his people turn into zambies and then kills them.

That would cause the Lich king's plan to fall apart.

>>48336609
>How does he take FM if he doesn't purge stratholme.

He still wants to kill Mal'Ganis and can get baited to Northrend. Vengeance for Stratholme.
Nothing changes.

>>48336605
>allow civilians to escape
>cowmen are too dumb to run the right way
>get eaten by pigmen
>"Oy vey, its another centaur onslaught"
>>48336581
>strategic port
>destroy it instead of taking it
>not wrong
cmon now.

>>48336630
>Garrosh allows civilians to escape Theramore
>they're too dumb to not get captured by the True Horde
>get tortured in Orgrimmar
>reeeeee Taran Zhu save us

>>48327194
You're exaggerating. Most WoW players do not even care about the lore.

>>48336691
I was searching for something warcraft related and found seriously ment question (from 2012) on Blizzard forums if Arthas was originally a human or blood elf

>>48336647
>
>garrosh allows
more like the alliance evacuated them because their leaders actually have brains instead of having moocows squatting in their tents
>>48336741
>pretty boy who is blond
clearly an elf.

>>48336769
>>pretty boy who is blond and ruins everything
>clearly an elf.
ftfy

>>48336948
Feanor had black hair.

>>48337188
blond hair and ruining everything are seperate phenotypes that are both common in the elven people

>>48337210
what did high elves ruin?

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>>48337310
Quel'Thalas

>>48337327
t. blood elf who is offering blow jobs for mana.

>>48337310
rightful troll land. Vengeance for Zul'jin!

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>>48337348

>>48337188
Blond is pretty much the default color for Warcraft high/blood elves

Although I like >>48337210 explanation better.

>>48337310
the blood elves did destroy Faraholn. It was apparently quite nice before the manaforges went up

>>48338172
Netherstorm was fucked as soon as Ner'zhul decided to start thinking with portals.

>>48338172
>drug addicts
>destroy everything
bravo blizzard.

>>48321797
>>becomes the largest Alliance settlement in Kalimdor outside of traditional elven land
>>begins funneling troops into the Barrens
Funnels troops into the barrens only after Ashenvale and Azshara are invaded hardcore.

>>48323007
>calm weapon masters who hit you so hard it shatters armor and makes you take more damage
Sunder got removed sadly

Now we will never know when we can basically start doing damage to it.

>>48322777
>>48323118
Yeah, that never happens.

Jaina glimpses cities that are still thriving through the little tears in reality the bomb made.

>>48338243
it was a field like Nagrand until the manaforges started sucking power out of the air and fucking things up

>>48326811
He's bloody beautiful with that skin. I use him all the time, damn simple but effective support at that.

>>48338541
>Now we will never know when we can basically start doing damage to it.
when there's enough DoTs

>>48338632
No no, that's when you SOTP DoTs.

>>48338588
And belves would never get manaforge technology if Naaru could protect their shit better

>>48338693
when do you blare electronic music?

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>mfw I went onto an american server and understood why Worgen are not really liked

Being the tank in a group of furries when you've never met furries before was quite the traumatising experience. We don't have furries in France. I can't look at my old grizzled veteran warrior the same anymore.

>>48321797
Should nuke Orgrimmar.

>>48338735
>We don't have furries in France.
lol

>>48338588
>Entry 205) Most of the Alliance forces have left for Azeroth. Hopefully the carefully-compiled reports that we sent with General Turalyon will make it back to Dalaran safely.
Ner'zhul's reckless portals have torn Farahlon apart, its green hills now quickly crumbling as the Twisting Nether corrupts the earth. I have to find a passage back to the place I was before!

That's from Vargoth's journal. Farahlon was fucked long before Kael'thas showed up.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Excerpts_from_the_Journal_of_Archmage_Vargoth

>>48338735
>tfw a female worgen hunter fucks up a quest your doing, then switches to a Horde character to yell at you for "kill stealing", threatens to report you, then flirts with you after you explain why she's wrong and dumb
>tfw she then tells you she has to go, but only to switch back to her worgen and keep following you while trying to add you as a b.net friend
(can't wake up)

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If they did managed to stay together, woulf they be allowed to have children and all?

Between him being royal blood and her swearing an oath to the Kirin Tor, I wouldn't be surprised if they had to pull a Romeo&Juliet and try to love each other against all ods.

>>48338585
you got the text?

>>48338765
Never met one here. Not like I've been digging either, but never seen a fursuit or anyone liking that sort of stuff.

>>48338858

They were both royalty and their families allowed their upcoming marriage as permissible until Arthas broke up for no reason.

>>48338862
Nah, just a vague memory I have to admit. But I'm 90% sure she saw images of the city in one piece that made the destruction all the worse by offering alternatives.

>>48338870
Shit it's been ages since I looked into this. Which royalty was Jaina from?

>>48338858
she literally pushed him away because he wanted a kid
>inb4 golden's book

>>48338883

Princess of Kul Tiras

>>48338905
Oh, silly me.

>>48338898
Wait, what? When?
>Implying he never wanted to smite that sweet elemental pussy

>>48338771
However, Vargoth (or rather, the image you summon with the staff) also says that until a few months ago there were still fields in Frahlon that wouldn't look out of place in Westfall. The place was probably already breaking apart, but the manaforges seem to have vastly accelerated the process, and be the ones responsible for the place not only being a bunch of floating chunks, but also being barren and bright purple.

>>48338870
Original WC3 lore had it that it was because Arthas had paladin stuff, and Jaina wanted to fully devote her immediate future to her studies.

Golden had in her book that Arthas basically went "I'm too young to be a daddy" and called it off.

>>48338941
>in wc3
>they have a relationship
>Arthas wants to marry her and have babbies
>she wants to study.
>arthas feels sad and they break up.

In the memebook

>they are always childhood friends
>they sneak away to an internment camp where green jebus is
>arthas wants to kill orcs, jaina thinks they are people too.
>they go to dalaran
>arthas cucks kael
>they end up boning
>arthas tells her not to betray him
>she tells arthas that she wants a babby when they get married
>arthas freaks out and calls the relationship off.

>>48338980
In that case I stand corrected, my bad anon.

>>48339071
he would have been turbo anduin
As it is, Anduin is the anti arthas.

>>48338996
>Golden had in her book that Arthas basically went "I'm too young to be a daddy" and called it off.

She should consider she's writing for characters in a medieval fantasy setting and not characters in a modern setting.

>>48338996
>>48338999

Ah that's what I thought. I mostly based my knowledge on wc3 for this, haven't heard of the goldenbook.

>Calls off the relationship when she wants a kid

Well shit, try to explain to the people why the country is suddenly cut in half because the young royalty is getting a divorce.

Shame they never got a child.
Arthas and Jaina's child would have been dope and pretty fucking powerful. Would have made for an interesting character arc, instead of bloody Anduin the whiny priest.

>>48339111
If Jaina and Arthas had decided to get married and had a child, it could've led to some interesting situations. This probably would've happened only shortly before the whole Scourge thing starts (possibly even so the child is born only after Arthas has gone off the deep end), so the child would have to grow up knowing their father was a former hero turned one of the most reviled people on the planet. And while they'd be the heir to the throne of Lordaeron (despite Lordaeron not really existing anymore, but significant part of the humans in the Alliance are refugees from there) and Kul Tiras, people might also be suspicious of them because of what Arthas did.

>>48339196
What do you think Jaina would do with the child? Take him with her to Theramore, or leave him in Kul Tiras or Stormwind. It would make for a nice reversal of the relationship Arthas and Varian had as children if she chose the last option. As to him being the heir to Kul Tiras, I think Jaina has one more older brother.

And on the topic of the heir to Lordaeron, I'm mad as hell that after years and years of forgetting about Calia Menethil (not even when her younger brother was finally slain), they're bringing her back and she's not even going to press her rightful claim to Lordaeron's throne. I bet she could force the issue if she's backed by Forsaken who still think of themselves as citizens of Lordaeron.

>>48339107
And this was after Arthas and Jaina shagged over Winter's Veil. Shit like that would cause a scandal, especially if Arthas called it off. And I disagree with Golden's interpretation of Garrosh being "weak in character".

Also for people who want (Mostly) great stories set in the Warcraft universe find yourselves a copy of Warcraft Legends. They're a mix of comics and quasi-manga that serve as anthologies for lots of great but fairly short stories.

Most of them are tragedies, like one or two that show just how horrible the plaguelands really are, others are comedic like the Tauren and Gnome working together in I think a trip from 1kNeedles to Un'goro.

Some give background to various holidays.

Overall they're really good.

>>48339352

I really want her older brother to come and call her on her shit, she committed patricide ang regicide, the two most heinous crimes possible and no one ever mentioned it after, even when it became obvious Daelin was right and she killed a hero of mankind for nothing.

>>48338898
I hate that book so much

>muh horse!
>i love you jaina but my horsie died
>HOOOORSE!
>my horse is alive again!

And not enough kel'thuzad or sylvannis

>>48339603
>others are comedic like the Tauren and Gnome working together in I think a trip from 1kNeedles to Un'goro.
Great..

>>48339608
I will bet money that's why Blizz hasn't touched Kul Tiras, they don't want it to touch Jaina's character arc.

Also, I checked on Tandred (Jaina's other brother who isn't dead). He's not canon anymore because he was only found in the now non-canon RPGs, and Metzen though the Loreolgy twitter said he isn't going to make him canon.

That makes Jaina the rightful Lord Admiral of Kul Tiras, despite being guilty of patricide and regicide by inaction. The King is dead! Long live the King!

>>48339686
IIRC Daelin also used to have a bastard half elf child with some mage from Dalaran.
Of course also decanoned because it's only fun to give out facts and stories for blizzard, not be held to them.

>>48339632
I hated how it sucked out a lot of DK Arthas' wry sense of humor, and the genuine camaraderie he had with Kel'thuzad before leaving for Northrend . DK Arthas was Lestat, but Golden turned him into DK Louis.

Death Knight Arthas was such a cheeky cunt, I loved it.

>We may never know, Uther. I intend to live forever.
>Greetings, dreadlords. I should thank you for looking after my kingdom during my absence. However, I won't be requiring your services any longer.
>Sorry we don't have time to chat, great wyrm. We've come to murder you and steal whatever artifacts you've been hoarding over the centuries.
>Muradin's dwarves? Doesn't anyone stay dead anymore?
>Traitor King? Who me?
>You look different, Illidan. Looks like the Skull of Gul'dan didn't agree with you.
>Are you still upset that I stole Jaina from you, Kael?

>>48339765
>>Are you still upset that I stole Jaina from you, Kael?
the greatest BTFOing in Warcraft history

>>48339765
>>Sorry we don't have time to chat, great wyrm. We've come to murder you and steal whatever artifacts you've been hoarding over the centuries.

Honesty...how refreshing.

>Sylvanas Windrunner: Did you forget about us, you wretches? Bash'a no falor talah!
>Kel'Thuzad: She is persistent. Reminds me of you, death knight.
>Arthas: Shut up, you damned ghost.

>>48339686
>>48339719
How is the Lore of the non-canon RPGs?

>>48339898
best bantz this side of the Maelstrom

>>48339935
Pretty alright. It expands on stuff that won't ever get touched on in retail, and has more than a few things I like better than the official lore.

Basically, my campaign would be stuff from the RPG, with some stuff from the official lore used as it pleases me. Like WoD's Draenor history.

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>>48339935

>>48339765
>>Are you still upset that I stole Jaina from you, Kael?
that was some god tier bantz.

>>48340021
>Kael got btfo'd so hard by Arthas' sick bantz he tried to go full Sheev and become crack-addict Vader instead

>>48325031
I've got another one: What if Jaina and/or Uther joined Arthas in purging Stratholme?

For whatever reason, be it Arthas being more convincing, Jaina or Uther being more BURN IT TO SAVE IT or whatever else feels most appropriate to you.

>>48339979
>Pretty alright. It expands on stuff that won't ever get touched on in retail, and has more than a few things I like better than the official lore.

What for example?

>>48339990
What is this?

>>48340155
I dunno about Jaina, but I could see Uther being so filled with disgust about what's done that he gives up being a paladin and exiles himself.

Maybe Jaina goes full revenge crazy like Arthas, and she and Kel'thuzad have power struggles over who's the top magic user in the Scourge.

>>48340222
Ley lines are more fleshed out, you have population numbers, and cultures in general are more looked at in depth. It's able to provide all this background you wouldn't be able to put into an MMO.

As for things done better, I guess it's more of how I dislike the direction that WoW has gone over the years, and the blank slate of "here are plot hooks" that TTRPGs are appeals to me more.

I'll need to reread my copies, so I'll get back to ya on that.

>>48340236
Oh gosh. Jaina turns into a lich, and the final boss fight in Naxxramas is Her and Kel'thuzad taking turns showing off their power while the other critiques them sassily.

>>48340049
>kt was memed to death

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>>48340222
It's a runemaster.

Runecasting was mostly forgotten by the Tauren until they relearned it from the dwarves after RoC.

Tauren Chieftans kept runed totems on their back, but with the runecasting learned from dwarves they could have real runemasters going full fist styled monk with runes.

I imagine demon hunters and ogre mages also enhance their bodies in similar ways.

>>48340155
>>48340236
I could see them walking in and trying to evaluate the problem alongside Arthas if he promised not to go FULL Purge on them till Uther had made a judgment.

>>48340277
That would have been fun.

>>48340306
there was nothing to evaluate though.

>>48340155
The scourge forces aren't bolstered by Stratholme.

Less of a chance for him to go to Northrend after Mal Ganis.

Less of a chance for him to take Frostmourne if he does since he has Jaina, Uther and Muradin helping him.

>>48339935
Non-canon. But I prefer it to the crap in the lastest WoW expansions and books.

>>48340345
Arthas and his expedition were fucked because it was just him and the 1st Legion, and Muradin and his dwarves right? With Uther and Jaina backing him up, he'd have a larger military that could take on Mal'ganis right?

>>48340222
Bran Bronzebeard's notes from travel in Lands of Conflict/Mystery are good. He shot off the legs of baron Rivendare's skeletal horse when the baron chased him near Stratholme.

>>48340336
Arthas haven't even tried to cure the plague. I can see the whole gang trying for a while, then meeting Mal'ganis (and propably smacking him together), then getting to the purges if there's no other solution. Or quarantine the city, try to save non-infected people (I can't imagine everyone was eating the same grain) and fight of zombies.

>>48340236
Wait a minute would that not mean that Uther is the leader at Theramore or whatever it would have been called?

>>48340407
yeah. burning his ships didn't help.

>>48340566
That could work. An Uther who no longer has loyalty to the crown might be convinced by Medivh.

>>48340603
medivh never talked to uther though.
wouldn't the naaru direct uther to go west?

>>48340566
I don't think there would be a Theramore. Uther didn't listen to the Prophet either, if he was going to exile himself, it probably wouldn't be to Kalimdor.

And even if he did go, I doubt he'd end up at Stonetalon to meet Thrall, and their individual forces would probably not be already cooperating when Furion wakes up and tells Tyrande to stop being so bloodthirsty. The whole set up seems like it would tip the odds towards the continent being to embroiled in conflict for Hyjal to end the way it does in canon.

I mean, Uther *might* end up cooperating with the Thrall and the NElfs-- he was one of the ones in favour of the internment camps, so it's not like he's all orc-slaughter all the time, and he's usually pretty reasonable. It just seems significantly less likely than when Jaina is the one to show up.

>>48340657
If Jaina went revenge-crazy like Arthas, then Uther might be the only person left who would listen. I wonder if he had to, he would try to tell Anasterian, Trollbane, or Daelin Proudmoore.

>>48340685
I wonder how much you can nudge and poke the canon and still ensure that the Legion doesn't win the Third War.

>>48340407
Yeah.
Well.

My first thought was yes since at the final human campaign mission, you'd have Arthas, Uther, Jaina and Muradin.
With possibly more Lordaeron reinforcements.
But that was bait for Arthas and Muradins forces specifically.
I think ner'zhul could've had more forces there if necessary.

Arthas wouldn't be as broken though so maybe he could avoid frostmourne.

>>48339352
I doubt there's very many Forsaken who would want to be ruled by a living human, even if she is the righful heir. They generally have a very strong dislike for the living, to say the least, and would more likely to see their realm as the inherito of Lordaeron, rather than any living humans who fled the land and now want it back.

>>48340778
>If Jaina went revenge-crazy like Arthas, then Uther might be the only person left who would listen. I wonder if he had to, he would try to tell Anasterian, Trollbane, or Daelin Proudmoore.

Daelin maybe.
Probably even since he'd want ships.
Jaina was a Proudmoore so she could probably get some Kul Tiras forces without reaching out to her father.

Anasterian and Trollbane were no longer part of the alliance so Daelin before them.

>>48340685
>I mean, Uther *might* end up cooperating with the Thrall and the NElfs-- he was one of the ones in favour of the internment camps, so it's not like he's all orc-slaughter all the time, and he's usually pretty reasonable. It just seems significantly less likely than when Jaina is the one to show up.

Yeah and he lectures Arthas about not becoming getting as bloodthirsty as the orcs.
Seeing an orc like Thrall would probably sway him.

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>>48338866
There are a lot of furries at conventions like japan expo and other shit events like that.