Pathfinder General /pfg/

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Do you want to play a Path of War initiator (full or partial)?
Do you prefer text-only games?
Are you highly tolerant of weeaboo token art?
Do you believe that dedicated roleplaying and heavy optimization are NOT mutually exclusive?
Are you interested in a game set in the bazaar of the bizarre, Katapesh?

If so, then this might be the game for you:
http://pastebin.com/dyRApYW3

There is a catch. This will be a small group with only two players and one GM. One player slot has already been reserved. They are a dedicated roleplayer, but also very meticulous with the rules. You will have to be very patient with them. There is only one player slot left.

For more details, send a Skype contact request to: explosive_runes

>>48276835
Do your best!

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>>48276858

At what?

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>>48276763
Does anybody have any recommended music for an Underdark campaign? Were also doing some sea exploration so music of that nature would help as well.

>>48276763
Estoc. Have you even seen that thing? It basically gives you a free feat.

>>48276899
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBkXTIT2Sk8&index=2&list=PLlUk42GiU2gu_DysIiG2VN_5OgseyvhAS
I was recently recommended to check out early Tangerine Dream for weird Underdark music.

What was the most fascinating way you've seen or made a character with conflicting or unusual class choices make sense within the campaign?

>>48276871
The rest of your life.

I need some advice. My players are now in an abandoned, totally wrecked fortress that they want to make it their temporary base, and they want to forge new stuff because their items are in a very poor condition.

The problem is: There is no coal, the forges are severely lacking the tools, and the wood in the place is hundred years old. There is no hope in find new wood because the world basically died.

My players have just their weapons, no profession/craft kits and a little of power. They have various Craft skills, like Weaponsmith/Armorsmith/Alchemy.

How many penalties I shall give to make it almost impossible? I just don't want to say no, because there is a very high chance of them fail and lose time (and there is so much in stake here).

>>48277913
"Almost impossible" and "impossible" have no meaningful distinction in a situation like this. Either tell them it's impossible, or allow it while making it difficult, but not so difficult it shouldn't be reasonably likely.

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trying to stat a lever action shotgun in pathfinder and this is what i have currently dose it seem okay or no? If im also misunderstanding how shotgun works i apologize its my first time trying to do something like this or use guns in general. Im using the double barrel shotgun as a base comparison.

Lever action hand shotgun
cost 6000
craft 2000
advanced firearm
1d8 damage
capacity
4
(3 in the tube and 1 in the barrel)
misfire 1-2
crit x2
range pellet
15ft
range slug
30ft
metal cartridge ammo
reload speed
2 cartridges move action
with rapid reload
2cartridges free action
2cartridges move action

double barrel shotgun comparison
cost 7000
craft 2333
advanced firearm
1d8 damage
double shot ability
-4 on both attacks when using slugs
attack against a single creature with bullets increase the damage of each barrel to 2d6 small or 2d8 medium for a tottal of 4d6 or 4d8 damage
capacity 2
misfire 1-2
crit x2
ramge pellet
20ft
range slug
40ft
metal cartridge ammo
reload speed both barrels
movement action
rapid reload speed both barrels
free action

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>>48276763
This sexy lady right here is all you need

>>48280156
sup /pfg/ what do i need to know to make the best alchemist i can make?

>espagnoll opens up a new game
>31 years old gamer Major in Humanities and Master degree in Comparative Theory of Art, Thought and Literature

>laugh and walk away

Did this thread die?

What's a fun Paizo-only tank/disruptor melee build?

The campaign's Way of the Wicked at level 7.

>>48282883
yes

>>48279496

absolute cancer

>>48282883
Its a slow day

>>48282813
You'd rather him than I anon.

>>48282813
Where is this?

>>48283124
>>48283253
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/15877/reign-of-win-slash-tg-slash-er

>>48282813
>>48283124
>>48283253
>>48283754
Holy shit I remember this game.
Espagnoll told me that because I didn't believe that all transhumanists were abominations that I didn't respect him as a DM, and thus banned me from the game lol.

He's still hopelessly trying to get it active huh?

>>48282902
Hexcrafter Magus with DEX/INT and specced for tripping grappling. Hair Hex and Combat Reflexes. Natural Weapon Magus Arcana and Rime Spell as your first Magus Arcana.

Cast Chill Touch with Rime Spell (Magical Lineage ho!) and proceed to Trip/Entangle or Grapple/Entangle multiple people during not your turn.

You make a decent support wizard and a decent close combat backup as well.

Have fun!

>>48276763
Nodachi. Good damage, best crit range and lets me get my weeb on.

>>48276835
No one wants to play your shitty fucking game, stop shitting up threads with these ads you fucking sperg

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>>48276763
Khopesh all day son.
too bad it's a shitty exotic weapon that i'll never actually use

>>48285863
For a trait, a tengu racial skill, a 1.5k ioun stone or a wayfinder, you too can wield an exotic weapon without wasting your precious feats.

The other thread passed the bump-limit, so I guess this just became the 'live' thread.

Okay, /pfg/, I have a question. Pretend the ARG race-builder system in the PRD is even close to being properly balanced. In building a (monstrous?) humanoid race, how many RP do you think a racial ability granting a 1d6 sneak attack would be worth?
(Assume that SA dice wouldn't scale with racial HD, but *would* stack with class-based SA dice.)

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>>48288030
RP is totally meaningless.

>>48276835

What did the other player decide on? I'm curious about joining but I'm nowhere near my computer for Skype.

>>48288191
Pastebin says
>sneak attack-optimized stalker (vigilante) 4/warder (dervish defender) 1

>>48288191
The other player is 2hu. Avoid like fire.

>>48288204
>>48288210

I mean character-wise, it's kind of silly to make a 2-person game without the other person having at least a vague idea what sort of character their PC is.

I'm on a phone so searching for the class other guy took is a little tough, sorry!

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>>48288210
Why?

>>48288351
Because 2hu is too much of an autist to be an enjoyable person to play with.
Her attitude towards the rules will drain all the fun for everyone involved, making it a miserable experience.

>>48276835
You'll probably have better luck searching for victims on /r/Pathfinder_RPG as /pfg/ is too familiar with 2hu for anyone sane to agree to play with her.

>>48288372

I'd play with her.

>>48288382
You forgot to attach a touhu picture.

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>>48288249

In the player's own words:
>mine is the president of a lesser (yet ancient) trading guild whose actual owner and CEO had gone missing. Said NPC happened to be an outspoken exposer of unscrupulous business practices and the creator of a pesh-addiction-lowering alchemical substance, earning them plenty of enemies. My own character is scrambling to keep the business afloat while also conducting an investigation to locate their missing employer.

>>48276763
Elven Curve Blade, for finesse training's 1.5x DEX to damage.
Thought I'd get it for the low low price of the Half-Elf's Ancestral Weapon, but I've since grabbed Skill Focus->Eldritch Heritage so I'm down a feat either way.

>>48288444
>Elven Curve Blade, for finesse training's 1.5x DEX to damage.
Or you can just use effortless lace with any non-finesseable weapon for the same result.

>>48288390
Looks like a genderswitched Aladdin from the Magi manga.

Is it? I could fap to that.

>>48288390

>Cute sneaky girl
>In a campaign featuring Lamashtu breeding cults

Uh oh.

>>48288589
Nobody said pic related was the character.

>>48280156
Longswords get the shaft a lot. They have like, one trait that makes them a worthwhile type of weapon to invest in.

>>48288608

Easy to assume when the same character gets posted while talking about PC.

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>>48288589

The character is actually a tiefling blinkling.

>>48288673
Blinkling is a race
Tiefling is a race

>>48288030

1d6 sneak attack would be worth 2 race points. Based on the Generic Classes in Unearthed Arcana (3.5), Sneak Attack +2d6 is a feat, so this is half a feat. Though it is fixed, the Generic Classes Sneak Attack feats has prerequisites so I'm halving the cost of the Flexible Bonus Feat trait rather than the Static Bonus Feat trait.

>>48288677

You can have Halfling Tieflings.

I feel like homebrewing an antiPoWladin.
Should I, /pfg/, or is this an incredibly terrible idea?

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>>48288831
It's called dread (nightmare).

>>48276763
>What's your favorite weapon in the heavy blades/light blades weapon group?

The dueling sword. Even though it's basically a waste of feats. I always imagine it as being like a saber and I really like sabers. I was playing a Warlord heavily focused on Thrashing Dragon/Scarlet and used a dueling saber in one hand and used unarmed attacks with the other.

>>48288847
What about a CHAbinger instead, then?

>>48276763
The falcata.

You spend one exotic weapon proficiency. Now if you spend equal resources on your falcata that another player does on their weapon you'll deal more damage on average.

Sure there might be builds that want other weapons. Trip builds, critfishing builds, vital strike builds. But when you compare full attack to full attack, that 19-20/x3 crit will pull the falcata to victory.

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Free doggirl to be awarded to Ssalarn once Akashit Mysteries is released.

>>48288893
No it won't, the damage that your infrequent x3 crit does in excess of an enemy's health is wasted, you'd be better off with a high-crit-rate weapon even though the average damage against an infinite-HP enemy would be technically lower.

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>>48287823
>>48287946
>>48287982

A Paizo-only throwing build (other than, say, an alchemist) will always be gut-wrenchingly suboptimal. I tried my hand at such a character below.

Level: 8
Race: Wyrwood
Class: Fighter (lore warden)
Base Ability Scores (20 point buy): Strength 7, Dexterity 18+2+2+2, Constitution O, Intelligence 16+2, Wisdom 11, Charisma 7-2

Custom Weapon: Martial light melee weapon (5 DP budget), Additional Design Points (+1 DP), Aerodynamic (-1 DP), Concealed (-1 DP), Expanded Range Increment ×2 (-2 DP), Fragile (+1 DP), Increased Damage ×3 (-3 DP). Martial light melee weapon, Small damage 1d6, Medium damage 1d8, critical 20/×2, thrown range 30 feet, price 20 gp, type slashing damage, fragile property (disappears with masterwork), +2 to Sleight of Hand to conceal.
Important Items: Gloves of Dueling (15,000 gp), Small +1 Returning custom weapon (8,000 gp + self-crafted for 106.66 gp), Boots of the Earth (5,000 gp), Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 (4,000 gp), Small darkleaf studded leather (self-crafted for 258.33 gp), Traveler's Any-Tool (250 gp), Small darkwood buckler (self-crafted for 180 gp)

Feats:
Level 1: Weapon Finesse
Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (custom weapon)
Fighter 2: Slashing Grace
Level 3: Quick Draw
Fighter 4: Point Blank Shot
Level 5: Precise Shot
Fighter 6: Rapid Shot
Level 7: Ricochet Toss
Fighter 8: Deadly Aim

Even with such a dedicated throwing build, the absolute best this character can manage is a Rapid Shot full attack routine of:
Attack: 8 base attack bonus + 7 Dexterity modifier + 1 Small + 3 Weapon Training + 1 enhancement - 3 Deadly Aim = +17
Damage: 1d6 Small custom weapon + 7 Dexterity modifier + 3 Weapon Training + 1 enhancement + 6 Deadly Aim = 1d6+17

That would be three attacks at +17/+17/+12 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 1d6+17 damage. Within 30 feet, this increases to +18/+18/+13 and 1d6+18 damage.

>>48289099
That'll vary depending on the actual health of the enemy and your bonus damage. You're assuming that bonus damage is high and health is low,, which isn't necessarily true. Either way, it doesn't matter. When you compare full attack to full attack 19-20/x3 (or 17-20/x3) will have the bigger number, all other things being equal. Which is what I was saying.

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>>48289152

If forced to attack in melee, the character can do so, but they will be down to a pathetic full attack routine of +19/+14 and 1d6+11 damage.

The character has no ability at all to respond to unusual defenses. The character has no other meaningful combat options. Their noncombat utility is limited to just their 4 + Intelligence modifier skill points and nothing else.

I suppose this goes to show just how poor Paizo-only fighters are, especially throwing fighters.

>>48289152
>>48289167
>+17/+17/+12 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 1d6+17 damage. Within 30 feet, this increases to +18/+18/+13 and 1d6+18 damage.
>level 8
>bad
Am I missing something? That is really really good. I mean you are a fighter, so that sucks...

>>48289382
If you aren't doing 200+ damage at level 8 your SHIT. SHIT.

>>48289152
>>48289167
>>48289443
JOkes aside: let me put that build into YAPCG and compare it to my fighter archer build. This could be crazy.

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>>48288372
>2hu
>her

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>>48289152
>>48289167

I had forgotten to include Weapon Focus in the attack bonuses.

The full attack routines would be:
Rapid Shot: +18/+18/+13 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 1d6+17 damage
Rapid Shot with Point Blank Shot: +19/+19/+14 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 1d6+8 damage
Melee full attack: +20/+15, each dealing 1d6+11 damage

>>48289382
>>48289443

I have high standards for mid-level builds, usually with tier 3 classes and archetypes as benchmarks.

Does Stalker's Combat Precognition art work the way I think it does?
As in, you activate it, and EVERY attack against you must be rolled twice and then the worse result is taken?

>>48289568
>I have high standards for mid-level builds
Damn. Maybe you should be the new buildposter.

Anyways: because I suck at throwing builds:
What would be the best way to do this without a custom weapon?

>>48289568
Add the Learned Duelist archetype, it should boost your damage output.

>>48289568
One quick question while I put this together:

Why didn't you go with the Two-handed thrower feat and a belt of mighty hurling? It gives you extra damage and you depend on strength only.

Is 19 AC acceptable at level 3?

>>48289666
Need more information.

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>>48276763
Pic related

>>48289152
>Returning
Why? It's rendered irrelevant by Ricochet Toss.

>Boots of the Earth (5,000 gp),
Why?

>>48289697
Boots of the earth is infinite healing for the entire party

>>48289671
Level 3 Bushi Stalker.
AC 19, Touch 15, Flat-foot 14.
I have two counters readied and roll +10s for each.
I took Courage as my level 3 Bushido.
No one else in the party has any defensive measures outside of slaying the enemy.
One of us has an infernal healing wand for out of combat healing.

>>48289717
You are probably fine. A little low but you have the offensive power to back it up.

>>48289709
What on the Returning, though?

>>48289727
Should I swap Courage for Combat Precognition?

>>48289589 is me. I don't know if it's worth it. I know the "roll twice on your attacks" art got errata'd to be only the first attack every turn, and am kind of expecting that to be the case for Combat Precognition as well.

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>>48289490

I am fairly certain that a generic fighter archer will outdo this thrower archer, due to a lack of feat-taxation (Weapon Finesse, Quick Draw, Ricochet Toss). A bowslinger is free to take Noble Scion (Narikopolus) and Weapon Specialization to steadily improve their damage.

>>48289598

>Anyways: because I suck at throwing builds
I had first begun to read of throwing builds in Pathfinder only an hour and a half ago. I am simply improvising.

>What would be the best way to do this without a custom weapon?
The build's efficacy spirals downward without a custom weapon. Daggers or throwing axes would be the best option, and those have a pathetic 10-foot range.

>>48289618

The character, at 8th-level, cannot afford to lose any of the feats in the progression listed here >>48289152. The Ustalavic/learned duelist would force the character to drop their 1st-level bonus feat.

Additionally, the Ustalavic/learned duelist is incompatible with the lore warden.

>>48289637

Two-Handed Thrower is incompatible with Slashing Grace.

>>48289697

>Why? It's rendered irrelevant by Ricochet Toss.
This is an error. That should have been listed as "Distance," not "Returning." You will notice that this is why the attacks have a 60 foot range increment.

>Why?
Due to being a wyrwood.

What sort of weapon could a fox wield? A normal, quadrapedal fox that happens to be my Mauler familiar and can have a free weapon proficiency feat?

>>48289772
>Two-Handed Thrower is incompatible with Slashing Grace.
He suggested a str-to-hit str-to-dmg build.

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>>48289799

The species is off, but I think you could do worse than pic related.

>>48289804
>Small +1 Returning custom weapon
>still returning instead of distance
Nice error smoothing, brah

>>48289816
I was literally about to post that exact picture anon

>>48289799
Unless I'm missing something, familiars can't take weapon proficiency feats.

>>48289804
I can't help but wonder if a warpriest of desna throwing starknives might be a better approach.

>>48289804
2hu, why is it that you've decided to come back to being active after nearly ruining our contact with DSP? We aren't going to forget that.

>>48289825
>>48289816
I was thinking the same thing, but my DM won't let me take that proficiency. He says he'll only allow it for a weapon a fox could believable wield. My last suggestion was a dwarven boulder helm, but quadrapeds don't get a head slot for items.

>>48289853
ebin shitboast :^)

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>>48289819

Forgive me. To smooth out the errors, then:

Level: 8
Race: Wyrwood
Class: Fighter (lore warden)
Base Ability Scores (20 point buy): Strength 7, Dexterity 18+2+2+2, Constitution O, Intelligence 16+2, Wisdom 11, Charisma 7-2

Custom Weapon: Martial light melee weapon (5 DP budget), Additional Design Points (+1 DP), Aerodynamic (-1 DP), Concealed (-1 DP), Expanded Range Increment ×2 (-2 DP), Fragile (+1 DP), Increased Damage ×3 (-3 DP). Martial light melee weapon, Small damage 1d6, Medium damage 1d8, critical 20/×2, thrown range 30 feet, price 20 gp, type slashing damage, fragile property (disappears with masterwork), +2 to Sleight of Hand to conceal.
Important Items: Gloves of Dueling (15,000 gp), Small +1 Distance custom weapon (8,000 gp + self-crafted for 106.66 gp), Boots of the Earth (5,000 gp), Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 (4,000 gp), Small darkleaf studded leather (self-crafted for 258.33 gp), Traveler's Any-Tool (250 gp), Small darkwood buckler (self-crafted for 180 gp)

Feats:
Level 1: Weapon Finesse
Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (custom weapon)
Fighter 2: Slashing Grace
Level 3: Quick Draw
Fighter 4: Point Blank Shot
Level 5: Precise Shot
Fighter 6: Rapid Shot
Level 7: Ricochet Toss
Fighter 8: Deadly Aim

Even with this dedicated throwing build, the absolute best this character can manage is a Rapid Shot full attack routine of:
Attack: 8 base attack bonus + 7 Dexterity modifier + 1 Small + 3 Weapon Training + 1 Weapon Focus + 1 enhancement - 3 Deadly Aim = +18
Damage: 1d6 Small custom weapon + 7 Dexterity modifier + 3 Weapon Training + 1 enhancement + 6 Deadly Aim = 1d6+17

Rapid Shot: +18/+18/+13 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 1d6+17 damage
Rapid Shot with Point Blank Shot: +19/+19/+14 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 1d6+8 damage
Melee full attack: +20/+15, each dealing 1d6+11 damage

I am confident that this build is pointless compared to a fighter archer, who is in turn obsoleted by an inquisitor.

>>48289866
>Animal companions should select their feats from those listed under Animal Feats. Animal companions can select other feats, although they are unable to utilize some feats (such as Martial Weapon Proficiency).

>Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.

Seriously, you can't really do it. That being said, try to convince your GM to use the mouth weapons from Ponyfinder, I guess.

>>48276763
Threadly reminder that the Trove link in the pastebin is wrong and needs to be updated

https://mega.nz/#F!9tQmBSbL!tbmlmKB_IsgDtzzrlXkVVQ

>>48289866

Well, since your GM is apparently allergic to sick-ass sword wolves (and fox-based derivatives), maybe the Kobold Tail Attachments?

>>48289898
Familiars have minimum 6 Int, anon.
So they can learn sick headbut weapon skills.

>>48289866

I think there's a feat that allows familiars to use extra item slots they didn't have before, so you could take that.

>>48289933
Yes, but weapon proficiency is explicitly called out as a feat they can't utilize.

I want this as much as the poster does, but it doesn't really work.

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>>48276763
Rhoka are objectively the swords for cool people.

>>48289950
So you're saying if, say, I had an Ape, it was intelligent enough, you wouldn't houserule club proficiency is A-okay?

And anything can wear helmets if you custom build em.

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>>48289717

AC 19 is perfectly normal for a 3rd-level stalker. I am guessing you have Dexterity 18, a darkleaf leather lamellar, and a +1 dodge bonus to AC from being a stalker. I would strongly advise using a two-handed weapon with Killer's Implements, most likely a nodachi or a custom weapon.

Consider the vigilante archetype for the stalker. In many respects, it is a direct upgrade to the stalker, transforming the class into a tremendously versatile skill monkey and sneak-attacking combatant. Additionally, after 4th-level (whereupon you gain uncanny dodge and another die of sneak attack), you can switch to warder (dervish defender) to gain your Intelligence bonus to AC, along with a handful of 3rd-level maneuvers thanks to Practiced Initiator.

Unless you are dearly invested in Mithral Current, I would not suggest a bushi for a low-level stalker either. The tradeoffs for a stalker are not particularly favorable until about 6th-level (losing a 1st-level stalker art hurts considering just how good they are). Even if you are a great fan of Mithral Current, I would advise dropping Courage in favor of Killer's Implements, which is mandatory for any stalker who is not a brutal slayer.

>>48289837

Ricochet Toss is necessary for a throwing build with BAB 6+. A warpriest (Molthuni arsenal chaplain) can qualify for it due to receiving weapon training, but the rest of the archetype guts the class. Additionally, this is a highly feat-intensive build, and only the fighter can afford it.

A warpriest trumps a fighter in nearly every other case, but this is a rare build wherein a fighter is called for.

>>48289973
Houserule being the key word here.

I want this guy to go Sif as much as the next guy but it's really hard to justify with the rules.

>>48290076
Yes, I suppose it does require the minutest of rulemaking/bending.
But.
I feel that's a good litmus test.
"GM, my familiar is mentally and physically capable of wielding this weapon. Can he take the proficiency feat for it?"
"No."
"Okay bye."

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>>48289955
Mah Urder.

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>>48289992
Youmu is so much cooler than Momiji.

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>>48276763
Aldori dueling sword, and I hate that it's my favorite.

I love that, in theory, they're supposed to be specially designed for a unique fighting style built around unarmored defense and switching grips, but in practice, any new content that gets brought out for them is either A) a trap option, B) an option that interferes with the options that already exist, or C) Both.

>>48290093

We could continue to go in circles with this but

Hey guy who first suggested this? Does your GM allow 3.5 material? If so, Lords of Madness has the mouthpick property for weapons, which is +1 and lets your fox use any melee weapon suitable for its size.

>>48289992
Hey, thanks for all of that info!
I do have Killer's Implements, I simply took Extra Stalker Art for it. Free feat????

And yeah, I am quite dearly invested into Mithral Current and Bushi.
This character focuses on Fool's Errand and Mithral Current quite heavily and is all about that Iaido style. Quicksilver Grip + Fool's Errand Style lets me sheathe and unsheathe all I want, basically. Also, the flavor there is fantastic.

I haven't considered Vigilante, mostly because I really enjoy the idea of having a high WIS for RP reasons, and also for really high Perception/Sense Motive rolls. It does seem superior, though. I may very well switch, since it seems like it stacks with Bushi. That leaves me with a real, non-RP issue, though - I'm using Wisdom in the Flesh to get my WIS to Climb for Fool's Errand stuff, since I dumped STR. If I switch, I'll have a garbage Climb. So I guess I can't?

As for multiclassing out to Dervish Warder... I dunno, I don't like the idea of sacrificing Stalker's progression. Maybe I'm not an optimizer at heart, but I don't think I'll be doing that.

>>48290157
Also, you automatically get proficiency in the weapon you're using, so go for a nodachi for hilarious fun times.

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So the magus, while originally failing to impress me, has re-impressed me.

I decided to go for a strength build magus. It's good.

>>48290304
What, did you actually decide to read a guide on how to build a character?

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Head Pat (Cha)

Check: By extending your arm in a non-threatening manner and flapping your arm and hand in the universal sign of encouragement, consolation and praise you can change the attitude of a creature from hostile, unfriendly and indifferent states to friendly.

Action: Takes 1 minute of solid and continuous head patting.

Special: If you have the Persuasive feat, you may head pat two heads at once.

Special: If you have any way to have multiple arms (from customizations, evolutions, the Multi-Armed trait, etc), you may head pat as many heads as you have arms free.

>>48290346
I have to go, but I recommend you try the build again with two-handed thrower, a charkham, and ether ricochet toss or a belt of mighty hurling.

I think going STR on this will save you some feats and let you do more damage, albeit with the loss of some AC and REF.

>>48290376
>me
>read build guide
This is literally how I build all of my characters.

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>>48289811
>>48289837

We can make a warpriest Strength thrower work at 9th-level (minimum; this simply does not work well at any lower level). With 20 point buy, the character will have rock-bottom Intelligence and Charisma, but at least they can spare a feat on Advanced Weapon Training (Versatile Training) to have more skill ranks.

Level: 9
Race: Oni-spawn tiefling (various alternate racial traits)
Class: Warpriest (Molthuni arsenal chaplain)
Base Ability Scores (20 point buy): Strength 16+2+2+2, Dexterity 13, Constitution 14, Intelligence 7, Wisdom 16+2, Charisma 7-2

Custom Weapon: Martial two-handed melee weapon (8 DP budget), Additional Damage Type (-1 DP), Additional Design Points ×3 (+3 DP), Aerodynamic (-1 DP), Expanded Range Increment ×2 (-2 DP), Fragile (+1 DP), Improved Critical Threat Range (-3 DP), Increased Damage ×5 (-5 DP). Martial two-handed melee weapon, Small damage 1d10, Medium damage 2d6, critical 19-20/×2, thrown range 30 feet, price 50 gp, type bludgeoning or slashing damage, fragile property (disappears with masterwork).
Important Items: Gloves of Dueling (15,000 gp), Lesser Belt of Mighty Hurling (14,000 gp), +1 Distance custom weapon (8,350 gp), Boots of the Earth (5,000 gp), +1 masterwork full plate (2,650 gp), Traveler's Any-Tool (250 gp)

Feats:
Warpriest 1: Weapon Focus (Custom Weapon)
Level 1: Quick Draw
Level 3: Point Blank Shot
Warpriest 3: Precise Shot
Level 5: Rapid Shot
Warpriest 6: Advanced Weapon Training (Versatile Training)
Level 7: Two-Handed Thrower
Level 9: Ricochet Toss

Without the use of any Sacred Weapon or buffing spells, these are their numbers:
Attack: 6 base attack bonus + 6 Strength modifier + 3 Weapon Training + 1 Weapon Focus + 1 enhancement - 2 Deadly Aim - 2 Rapid Shot = +13, critical 19-20
Damage: 2d6 custom weapon + 9 Two-Handed Thrower + 3 Weapon Training + 1 enhancement + 4 Deadly Aim = 2d6+17

>>48290388
Adahn, stop shitposting already.

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>>48290401

Rapid Shot: +13/+13/+8 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 2d6+17 damage
Rapid Shot with Point Blank Shot: +14/+14/+9 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 2d6+18 damage
Melee full attack: +17/+12, each dealing 2d6+13 damage

In the end, switching to Strength was not too great an improvement, but at least the character has far more options as a warpriest.

>>48290405
who

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>>48290378

What would a "Head Pat as a Class Skill" trait look like?

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>>48289885

And of course, I have neglected to factor in the -2 penalty for Rapid Shot and committed other math errors. Another update:

Level: 8
Race: Wyrwood
Class: Fighter (lore warden)
Base Ability Scores (20 point buy): Strength 7, Dexterity 18+2+2+2, Constitution O, Intelligence 16+2, Wisdom 11, Charisma 7-2

Custom Weapon: Martial light melee weapon (5 DP budget), Additional Design Points (+1 DP), Aerodynamic (-1 DP), Concealed (-1 DP), Expanded Range Increment ×2 (-2 DP), Fragile (+1 DP), Increased Damage ×3 (-3 DP). Martial light melee weapon, Small damage 1d6, Medium damage 1d8, critical 20/×2, thrown range 30 feet, price 20 gp, type slashing damage, fragile property (disappears with masterwork), +2 to Sleight of Hand to conceal.
Important Items: Gloves of Dueling (15,000 gp), Small +1 Distance custom weapon (8,000 gp + self-crafted for 106.66 gp), Boots of the Earth (5,000 gp), Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 (4,000 gp), Small darkleaf studded leather (self-crafted for 258.33 gp), Traveler's Any-Tool (250 gp), Small darkwood buckler (self-crafted for 180 gp)

Feats:
Level 1: Weapon Finesse
Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (custom weapon)
Fighter 2: Slashing Grace
Level 3: Quick Draw
Fighter 4: Point Blank Shot
Level 5: Precise Shot
Fighter 6: Rapid Shot
Level 7: Ricochet Toss
Fighter 8: Deadly Aim

Even with this dedicated throwing build, the absolute best this character can manage is a Rapid Shot full attack routine of:
Attack: 8 base attack bonus + 7 Dexterity modifier + 1 Small + 3 Weapon Training + 1 Weapon Focus + 1 enhancement - 3 Deadly Aim - 2 Rapid Shot = +16
Damage: 1d6 Small custom weapon + 7 Dexterity modifier + 3 Weapon Training + 1 enhancement + 6 Deadly Aim = 1d6+17

Rapid Shot: +16/+16/+11 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 1d6+17 damage
Rapid Shot with Point Blank Shot: +17/+17/+12 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 1d6+18 damage
Melee full attack: +21/+16, each dealing 1d6+11 damage

>>48290378
Why would you use that image with that skill? O_o

>>48290440
Not him, what's a class skill trait?

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How would I build pic related?

>>48290549
OD Fiendbound Warder

>>48290493

There are traits characters can take to treat certain skills as class skills (even if they don't usually count as such for their class), often with an addition bonus to the check. Usually come with a blurb that justifies and gives flavor to the bonus.

>>48290549

No idea who that is.

>>48290549
Refluff Deadly Fist Soulknife or get a large set of cestus(cesti?, cestuses?) and use those with prodigious twf.

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>>48290388

>two-handed thrower

I have tried this again with an 8th-level fighter (mutation warrior).

Level: 8
Race: Human
Class: Fighter (mutation warrior)
Base Ability Scores (20 point buy): Strength 16+2+2+2, Dexterity 13, Constitution 14, Intelligence 7, Wisdom 16, Charisma 7-2

Custom Weapon: Martial two-handed melee weapon (8 DP budget), Additional Damage Type (-1 DP), Additional Design Points ×3 (+3 DP), Aerodynamic (-1 DP), Expanded Range Increment ×2 (-2 DP), Fragile (+1 DP), Improved Critical Threat Range (-3 DP), Increased Damage ×5 (-5 DP). Martial two-handed melee weapon, Small damage 1d10, Medium damage 2d6, critical 19-20/×2, thrown range 30 feet, price 50 gp, type bludgeoning or slashing damage, fragile property (disappears with masterwork).
Important Items: Lesser Belt of Mighty Hurling (14,000 gp), +1 Distance custom weapon (8,350 gp), Boots of the Earth (5,000 gp), +1 masterwork full plate (2,650 gp), Traveler's Any-Tool (250 gp), 2,750 gp left

Mutagen Discovery: Wings

Feats:
Human: Quick Draw
Level 1: Point Blank Shot
Fighter 1: Precise Shot
Fighter 2: Rapid Shot
Level 3: Two-Handed Thrower
Fighter 4: Deadly Aim
Level 5: Advanced Weapon Training (Versatile Training)
Fighter 6: Ricochet Toss
Level 7: Combat Stamina
Fighter 8: Focused Discipline

With a +4 Strength mutagen chugged and 5 stamina points spent (out of 10) on Rapid Shot and Focused Discipline, the fighter boasts these numbers:
Attack: 8 base attack bonus + 8 Strength modifier + 1 Weapon Training + 1 enhancement - 3 Deadly Aim + 2 Focused Discipline = +17
Damage: 2d6 custom weapon + 12 Two-Handed Thrower + 1 Weapon Training + 1 enhancement + 6 Deadly Aim + 2 Focused Discipline = 2d6+22

Rapid Shot: +17/+17/+12 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 2d6+22 damage
Rapid Shot with Point Blank Shot: +18/+/18/+13 with a 60-foot range increment, each dealing 2d6+22 damage
Melee full attack: +20/+20/+15, each dealing 2d6+16 damage

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>>48290688

This was certainly an improvement, although the fighter has spent half of their stamina points. We are also still looking at a character with abysmal Intelligence and Charisma and nearly nothing for noncombat utility.

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And now, an 8th-level generic archer fighter.

Level: 8
Race: Wyrwood
Class: Fighter (lore warden)
Base Ability Scores (20 point buy): Strength 14, Dexterity 18+2+2+2, Constitution O, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 10, Charisma 7-2

Important Items: Gloves of Dueling (15,000 gp), +1 Seeking composite longbow of Strength +2 (8,000 gp + self-crafted for 200 gp), Boots of the Earth (5,000 gp), Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 (4,000 gp), Small darkleaf studded leather (self-crafted for 258.33 gp), Traveler's Any-Tool (250 gp)

Feats:
Level 1: Noble Scion (Narikopolus)
Fighter 1: Point Blank Shot
Fighter 2: Precise Shot
Level 3: Rapid Shot
Fighter 4: Deadly Aim
Level 5: Combat Stamina
Fighter 6: Manyshot
Level 7: Focused Discipline
Fighter 8: Clustered Shots

With 5 stamina points spent (out of 8) on Rapid Shot and Focused Discipline, the fighter is looking at the following numbers:
Attack: 8 base attack bonus + 7 Dexterity modifier + 1 Small + 3 Weapon Training + 1 enhancement - 3 Deadly Aim + 2 Focused Discipline = +19
Damage: 1d6 Small longbow + 2 Strength modifier + 3 Weapon Training + 1 enhancement + 6 Deadly Aim + 2 Noble Scion (Narikopolus) + 2 Focused Discipline = 1d6+16

Rapid Shot: +19/+19/+14 (first attack resolves twice) with a 110-foot range increment, ignoring miss chances, each dealing 1d6+16 damage, Clustered Shots
Rapid Shot with Point Blank Shot: +20/+20/+15 (first attack resolves twice) with a 110-foot range increment, ignoring miss chances, each dealing 1d6+16 damage, Clustered Shots

As we can clearly see here, this relatively simple archer is far more cost-effective than all of the throwing builds above. Of course, an equal-level warpriest archer would surely be superior even to this fighter archer.

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Dunno if we're still theorycrafting about animal companions, I could use some recommendations. I'm playing a Winged Marauder alchemist with a giant vulture AC, and I have no idea what feats to get the vulture. It's stats are pretty uninspiring aside from having pretty good con, and I mostly use it as a mount to zip around throwing bombs at things.

Any ideas?

>>48290948
Can you at least pastebin this shit, please?

Or just go take it to the IRC?

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>>48290948

>Intelligence 12

This should be Intelligence 12+2.

>>48290954

What is your alchemist's level? Are you permitted to use Path of War material?

>>48290984

>Can you at least pastebin this shit, please?
No.

>Or just go take it to the IRC?
This is of no concern to them.

>>48291012
Alright. Enjoy the reports for spamming then, you worthless autistic tranny.

>>48290378
>>48290493
Not him, but Brisela DOES have many arms. Good for patting.

(It's a recent Magic card. Two angels were fused by a Lovecraftian monstrosity into a nightmare of flesh.)

so hey, Im making a priest that gives me 2 domains and the knowledge domain. Im taking darkness as my first but dont know what to take for my 2nd domain. Any ideas?

Planning to play as a channeler since the priest gets d8s instead of d6s. Should i take a channel variant? Its been years since i last played pathfinder so there is a lot of new shit im unfamiliar with.

>>48276763
>favorite heavy or light blade
Nodachi

that, or estoc

>>48277913
Depends on their level, honestly.

Not having the tools imposes a -2 by itself, but there are a few things (like forging metal) that are actually not possible without a forge and fire.

As a side note, wood being centuries old just means it burns hotter and faster, so rather than dumping a ton of penalties, maybe just limit them in the number of items they can make. It's a better method of resource management for the party than "Can we even successfully do this thing?"

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>>48290171

>I do have Killer's Implements, I simply took Extra Stalker Art for it. Free feat????
Remember that Extra Stalker Art still has a Wisdom-based requirement even if you are a stalker (vigilante). Killer's Implements combines both Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility, effectively saving you a feat slot.

>Quicksilver Grip + Fool's Errand Style lets me sheathe and unsheathe all I want, basically.
I do not think such a build will be particularly effective at the lower levels. If you are using Killer's Implements with a two-handed weapon, then your unarmed attacks are worthless. That leaves you to lock only with your weapon attacks; only a few of your maneuvers can do that, unless you sacrifice melee attacks with Fool's Errand Style simply to lock creatures (no damage), which is a terrible trade-off for a stalker who wants to be constantly pressuring enemies with high damage.

Besides, as a 3rd-level character with AC 19 and d8 HD, it is not as though you are particularly qualified to lock enemies adjacent to you and absorb their attacks.

I take it that you are playing a human, which is how you have three feat slots to spare?

>also for really high Perception/Sense Motive rolls
The stalker (vigilante) receives free inspiration on all Perception and Sense Motive checks.

>If I switch, I'll have a garbage Climb.
Simply avoid the Climb-reliant maneuvers of Fool's Errand.

>>48291169

Consider a "hangover" cleric build:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o5lm?Fun-Build-MiniGuide-The-Hangover-Cleric

>>48291012
Level 6. I'm going to go with no on PoW material, sadly.

>>48291356
>Consider a "hangover" cleric
2hu has the right idea. Hangover clerics are awesome. They #MakeChannelGreatAgain

>>48276763
Were there two /pfg/ at the same time? This thread from last night also links to this op

>>48282901

>>48291356
>hangover cleric

NEAT! Thanks for the heads up. Im checking this out and Im liking what i see.

>>48291169
>priest
>loses weapon/armour proficiencies in favour of twice as many domain spell slots, free knowledge domain, a step increase to channel dice, and bardic fucking knowledge

...Holy HELL, who thought this was an even trade?

>>48291485
It happens occasionally, when two people decide to make a new thread at (almost) the same time. Quite often one of them 404s before the other hits bumplimit, however.

>>48291536
Nobody. It's from Adamant Fucking Entertainment.

>>48291568
Literally who?

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>>48291357

The giant vulture will most likely be completely worthless for actually attacking until you reach 7th-level and attain its Large-sized advancement.

What I would do is focus its feats on general mobility and survivability for now, and use it as a nothing but aerial transportation. Come 7th-level, dismiss the old vulture and bring in a new one whose feats are Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and Awesome Blow (either convince your GM that it would be appropriate or raise the vulture's Intelligence to 3). That way, you can make the most of its singular bite attack by pushing and knocking prone enemies, which will leave you free to throw your bomb against other enemies.

>>48291536

I believe it is supposed to be a reenvisioning of the 3.5 cloistered cleric, down to the 1/2 BAB, but we all know how much better that was than the regular cleric.

>>48291572
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/priest

>>48291584
>we all know how much better that was than the regular cleric.
Ah, to be fair that's because 1/2 bab didn't matter when a single spell made you full bab. All you lost was... heavy armor proficiency? Maybe medium as well, I don't remember. It was totes a good trade for knowledge domain/devotion, 6 skills per level, and only an average of 1 less hp per level.

>>48291605
...Yes, I know what the class is, on account of I was just talking about it. Who the hell is Adamant Entertainment?

>>48291633
A not very good 3rd party publisher.

>>48291633
a 3pp group known for not really knowing how PF's rules work.

>>48291633
A third party publisher.

I don't know much about them but apparently that anon doesn't have a high opinion of them.

>>48291633
>Who is adamant entertainment
>Class literally says 3rd party classes adamant entertainment in the link

>>48291655
Fucking christ anon, obviously they made the class, it says that like three goddamn times on the page

Clearly you have a negative opinion of them, and I wanted to know why

But you're apparently too damn retarded to understand how conversation works

>>48291655
>>48291696
Both of you need to sit down, apologize, and then get back to disliking paizo/adamant entertainment/publisher of your choice.

Speaking of which what are some other really not good 3rd party publishers?

>>48291696
You know, you could have made that at all clear. You're the retarded one for not actually asking the question you wanted to know the answer to.

>>48291727
All of them. Even DSP is pretty shit. Paizo is shit as well but better than most 3pp.

>>48291734
>who thought this class was a good idea?
>adamant, the makers of this class
>who's adamant?
>the makers of this class
>yeah but who ARE they?
>the makers of this class

Right, I'm the idiot here.

>>48291485
>>48291539
There was much upheaval over recent drama and degeneracy that caused multiple threads to form.

>>48291796
>>48291796
>Right, I'm the idiot here.
Correct.

>>48291809
There was so much special snowflake drama queen bullshit that it's hard to stomach. Can people actually not put on a name without going full retard?

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Why is there such a severe Path of war and Psionics autism here? Paizo classes aren't all garbage, guys, god damn.

>>48291796
>>48291819
I'm reminded of this incredibly awkward kid I knew in high school. We invited him to a party once out of pity (and also to maybe spare our lives in his inevitable school shooting). One of the girls, she'd never met him, and asked him who he was, and he spent like twenty soul-draining minutes telling an achingly boring story about the time he'd built his own RC car, and any time someone tried to interrupt he just got louder until they shut up. We didn't invite him anywhere after that.

The moral of the story, I guess, is that when someone asks who you are, they're asking who you are, not what you've done.

>>48291850
They aren't all garbage, but people have a lot of issues with how bad they often are, and the fact that Paizo has shown a pattern of shitting on them whenever possible if they aren't casters.

>>48291850
The thread so far is 2hu doing 1pp builds for once.

>>48291850
There are very few that are balanced, fun, and effective all at once. Barbarian, Bard, Alchemist, Inquisitor, Magus, Hunter, Brawler, Unchained Rogue, Vigilante, Occultist. That's basically it, out of all of the Paizo classes.

>>48281204
There's about a hundred ways to play Alchemist and 99 of them are fucking fantastic. That class is way too fun to play. Just read what your abilities actually do.

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>>48281204
Really, the only thing to remember is that you have three main abilities (Extracts, Bombs, Mutagens) and a couple of extra options (Crafting, Discoveries that aren't related to the above three, Poisons). Focus on two main abilities at-most and invest a little bit in one or two of your side options; don't try to do everything. If you follow that extremely-basic outline, you'll play a successful Alchemist.

>>48291963
Agreed, alchemist is probably my favorite class in the system.

You could have a party composed entirely of properly archetyped alchemists and it would be very well rounded.

>>48291584
What if PoW was allowed. I assume just grab a bunch of martial training? What discipline would be best? Broken blade?

>>48291960
Yiu forgot Paladin, Ranger, Bloodrager, Warpriest, Investigator, Skald, UC Monk, and Fighter

>playing as melee frontliner/damage dealer
>DM keeps blinding me so I become useless

Is there a magic item that lets me shrug this off because it's getting fucking annoying

>>48292181
Get boots of tremorsense or any other alternate perception item.

give me the IRC

>>48292181
Weaponmaster's Blindfold, Blinded Blade Style, Echolocation spell, Fungal Eye Grafts.

>>48292220
What do we say when we want something, anon?

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>>48292026

There is also the option of taking archetypes to narrow down your alchemist's specialty.

A tiefling alchemist (beastmorph, mindchemist, vivisectionist) with an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists can be a terrific Knowledge skill-user, sneak attacker, and, by 10th-level, pouncer.

A human alchemist (beastmorph, mindchemist) can be a fine bomber and an even better Knowledge skill-user.

(Bear in mind that whether or not the beastmorph's class features stack is a point of contention, and so is whether or not it works with a cognatogen. If they are ruled to be incompatible with a cognatogen, then the vivisectionist should take the mutagen discovery, and the bomber should avoid the beastmorph altogether.)

If Path of War: Expanded is available, a tiefling alchemist (internal alchemist, polymath, vivisectionist) is an initiating, sneak attacking, mutagen-abusing, extract-drinking fighting machine.

>>48292118

I would give the vulture Intelligence so that it can then retrain its 3rd-level feat to Additional Traits (one of which should be Combat Training), and then take Martial Training I and II as its 5th- and 7th-level feats.

Do not bother with damage; instead, pick out 1st- and 2nd-level maneuvers that apply some sort of no-save rider effect that will help you and/or your allies. Have a look through this document:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hYrnghrSe7kMOko-aNiS0HTVlSJnUBkvHD2dmg0omGY/edit#gid=2068497833

>>48292283
...please?

sorry for my rudeness.

>>48292283
Fuck off cunt.

>>48292128
>Ranger
>Warpriest
>Good

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>>48291809
What drama?

So with what archetype combos can I make a class the most different from its base? Changing out most (if not all) their class features.

>>48292294
#pfg on Rizon

>>48292319
I started an argument about power attack and deadly aim

I don't think they are that good.

>>48291310
>wood being centuries old just means it burns hotter and faster

Didn't know about that, thanks.

>>48292339
What a coincidence!

we don't think you are that good

>>48292312
>ranger
>Warpriest
Bad. Explain your reasoning. Ranger is on par with the classes you listed and accomplishes it's job well. It's only held back by limited effectiveness range due to terrain/enemy choice. At low levels that tends not to matter due to limited overland mobility of most campaigns and at high levels it doesn't matter because instant enemy.

Warpriest is fine. A fighter will spell casting and domains. Plus sweet fast casting. What's wrong with it?

>>48292339
PA was way better in 3.5, but it STILL mandatory.

>>48292376
RIP Sacred Fist

>>48292399
Sacred fist isn't good any longer, yeah, but besides that Warpriest is fine.

>>48292399
What did they even do to sacred fist? Better question is WHY WOULD THEY NERF IT AT ALL, UNARMED SUCKS ANYWAY.

>>48291536
>>48291584
>>48291610
Yep, i also agree its definitely on the broken side of things. but it got cleared by the DM so im getting to play it, not planning on being super optimal though. Any suggestions for my 2nd domain? i have darkness locked in, and knowledge cuz i cant take it away (not that i want to) with the subdomain of espionage and possibly night, though im not sold on night.

finished reading the hangover cleric and while it looks fun and awesome, i dont think its particularly thematic for the stuff ive chosen, unless yall can help me bullshit a story as to why a gnome with the darkness domain can lawfully compel people/make them drunk every round.

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>>48292393
orly?

It seems that DA is worse if you need to roll more than a 4 on the d20 to hit.

>>48292339
We actually weren't talking about you for once, drama queen.

>>48292319
Forrest said some off-the-cuff things in IRC about PoW errata and people started taking it as gospel, stirring up excitement and rage in the general thread, and blaming 2hufag for it all. It was pretty stupid and people kept making new threads when the general was on like page 5 or 6.

>>48292510
Do you have a deity? Or are you just grabbing random domains? You can't get variant channels if you don't have a deity.

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>>48292393
>>48292516
And even with a barbarian, where you get extra damage via two handing, it's worse if you need more than a 3 on the d20 to hit.

>>48292532
Why did 2hu do it?

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>>48291920
Yeah, Paizo are a bunch of wizard lovers, but I feel they've made worthy strides recently with Unchained and the Armor/Weapon master handbooks.

>>48291943
Yeah, I know. It was so unorthodox that it made me think.

>>48291960
I'd add what >>48292128 added and then point out that that is more classes than there are Psionic and Path of War classes combined.

>>48292291
Rageborn skinwalker beastmorph vivisectionist VMC Sorcerer can easily get up to 9 or 10 natural attacks, I think. Would be worth it for any sneak attack pounce build.

Are Stalker and Warder T4?

>>48292600
Armor/Weapon Master were okayish, and Unchained WOULD have been good if they hadn't prevented them from taking normal archetypes, and nerfed barb.

"Math is hard, can't have rage give stats"

"Sacred Geometry/Arithmancy? Nah, no problems."

>>48291850
Vancian casting is boring. Those classes are actually fun to play.


Paizo's content on a GOOD day is just playable.

>>48292376
This. Warpriest is great. If you do it just right you can even have more feats than a fighter while still casting spells. Human favored class bonus blowing this game the FUCK UP.

>>48292516
>>48292592

Interesting. But I still prefer to lose some accuracy based on the situation at table, so PA/DA is always good for me.

>>48292365
Sure thing.

For real, though, limiting their production quantity is a better option than their actual ability. I'd stick with the -2 for not having tools/using improvised tools, and limit them to maybe 3 or 4 items total.

So are there any copies of Horror Adventures floating about yet?

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>>48292626

The stalker receives a tremendous upgrade by taking the vigilante archetype, and the warder is likewise almost always better off as a zweihander sentinel.

Discipline selection plays a large part in determining an initiator's noncombat options and ability to respond to unusual situations in combat. From a noncombat perspective, Unquiet Grave 2's Stalking Ghoul is practically at-will hide in plain sight, Veiled Moon 2's Fading Strike is at-will teleportation, and Veiled Moon 3's Ghostwalk is at-will incorporeality.

It is hard to say what tiers stalkers and warders are truly in, especially with the Path of War 1 errata unavailable.

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I'm going to be playing in a 3.5 game soon because my DM is stubborn but awesome, so he said I can potentially work with him to homebrew a hybrid of the 3.5 knight with the pathfinder warder (with the zweihander sentinel archetype).

If it were up to you, what changes would you make to the warder to avoid overshadowing the melee classes in 3.5 too much?

>>48292715
Turn it into a 6/9ths initiator, give it a d10 hit die, done.

>>48292715
Use ToB instead.

>>48292655
He also didn't include Furious Focus. And probably a bunch of other things.

>>48292715
It doesn't overshadow them. ToB already existed.

Shit, 3.5 had the fucking Dungeoncrasher.

>>48292594
There was no definitive confirmation 2hu did anything. It was all hearsay and witch hunting.

>>48292726
>>48292734
>>48292761
In all honesty I'd be happy with a warblade that can say "-4 penalty if you don't attack me" like the warder, and call it a day.

>>48292761
Mmmm dungeoncrasher..... I still haven't found a DM that'll let me play one.....

Questions about Variant Channels:

The SRD says they only effect "positive energy to heal" and "negative energy to harm". That seems weird. They just.. have no effect on positive to harm, or negative to heal?

Also, if I've got Versatile channel, can I have two different variants, one for positive and one for negative? Or must they both be the same variant? Or, even worse, do I only get a variant for my original channel, and the one Versatile gives me can't get a variant?

>>48292765
>There was no confirmation
>He directly confirmed it twice
>He's the only one autistic enough to do it
>He's done this exact sort of shit in the past multiple times
>He's literally autistic and doesn't understand context

I dunno, man. I dunno. There's all this... things that prove a thing? What's the word for that? I think it starts with an E or something...

>>48292765
But surely there's a powerful reason to suspect him.

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>>48292628
Unchained is optional, my man. Barbarian changes are pretty awkward, I agree, but remember that Unchained brought us Combat Stamina. I think only UnMonk and UnSummoner can't take archetypes, Barb and Rogue are fine.

>>48292635
I'd give you that if balance wasn't all over the place in Path of War. It's pretty difficult to make a good combat encounter for Path of War characters, let me tell you.

Granted, the same could be said about a wizard, but a wizard doesn't need me to learn new mechanics and systems. I'd rather bring casters down to the level of martials with something like Spheres of Power instead of the reverse. Spheres of power can be broken itself, but at least it means a wizard can't ALWAYS have the silver bullet.

>>48292807
Combat Stamina is shit, though.

UnMonk is worthless because Monk is only decent with archetypes.

UnRogue can't take archetypes by RAW, either.

UnBarb is just bad.

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>>48292793

This is called Devoted Spirit 1's Iron Guard's Glare.

>>48292589
zon kuthon to let me channel

>>48292834
>crusader

:(

>>48292824
>UnRogue can't take archetypes by RAW, either.
Yes it can, it says right at the beginning of the Unchained Classes section that everything except the UnMonk can take old archetypes, and are purposefully-designed to do so.

>>48292807
>I think only UnMonk and UnSummoner can't take archetypes

UnMonk can't by RaW, but it wouldn't be too hard to compare what is altered by the archetype and then apply it to the Unchained Monk. Most of it would just be "replace X level ki power" instead of "replace whatever feature you gained at level X."

>>48292840
correction, not zon kuthon, using a homebrewed pantheon

>>48292840
So, your other choices for domain are Death, Destruction, Evil, and Law.

Of those, I would suggest either Law (for the Variant Channel letting you torture the truth out of enemies) or Death (almost uncontestedly the best domain for Channel builds, because it lets you heal yourself whenever you channel negative energy).

>>48292873
Oh, I see. What other domains does your deity offer, then?

>>48292824
Combat stamina is a flat buff to fighters, though. There's no arguing it; it's a nice thing for fighters that they literally get for free. It can't be negative.

UnBarb is a situational buff. If you were to do a two-weapon fighting barbarian it would actually be better.

And yes UnRogue can take archetypes you FUCKING dinglebeast.

UnMonk can't, but it's not hard to houserule it in.

>>48292906
Portfolio: Tricks, thievery, Bragging
Domains: Darkness-Night: Trickery-Decep,Greed,thievery: Glory-Honor:

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>>48292824

>Combat Stamina is shit, though.

One underrated use of Combat Stamina I have seldom seen advertised is the Combat Stamina + Focused Discipline combo.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/focused-discipline-combat
>Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all saving throws against fear effects. Whenever a fear effect targets you and fails to affect you (either because of a successful saving throw or because of immunity to fear), you gain a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and CMB checks against the creature that attempted to use the fear affect on you for 1 round.

>Combat Trick: You can spend 2 stamina points in order to gain the benefit of Focused Discipline for 1 round as if you had been targeted by a fear effect that failed to affect you.

This would be two feats, two stamina points, and no action at all to activate a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and CMB checks for a round, not to mention a passive +2 bonus to saving throws against fear.

>>48292853

A feat can solve this, although a single feat can be a heavy investment in 3.5 unless Unearthed Arcana flaws are allowed. You could dip into crusader anyway so as to repair the slightly flawed progression of the warblade.

>>48292802
>>48292804
>>48292765
I want to molest 2hu while they ask me why I'm doing this in a monotone, robotic autism voice. Forcing 2hufag to wear fox ears while I suffocate them with my tits!

What's the best full initiating class to focus on Fool's Errand with?
I really like the Lock idea.

>>48292928
>only three domains
>three subdomains under one domain
>no alignment domains
Does.. does your DM know how gods work?

>>48292944
Hidden Blade is actually really amazing for it.

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>>48292928
>having a list of domains you're locked to instead of letting the player choose domains and justify their interpretation of the religion

>>48292962
Isn't that the rogue archetype?
Those don't get full initiation, right?

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>>48292928
>Has not one, not two, but THREE Trickery subdomains
>somehow also manages to qualify for the honor domain

Is there a way to play a WIS Harbinger?

>>48292988
Technically no, but it's a fairly common houserule (NOT an official rule, at all.) to give them full initiating.

>>48293012
How's that work?
Do you copy a similar class, such as Stalker?

>>48292928
So, Night sucks, Deception sucks, Greed sucks, Glory is.. okay, Honour sucks. Trickery is pretty good, Thievery is a sidegrade from Trickery. Take Trickery or Thievery, depending how stealy you feel.

>>48289866
armor spikes

>>48292988
It's still good. They have strong debuffs that are easy to proc (-attacks, -ack), synergize well with FE's movement and multi-hits, and you can probably afford the feats to get Advanced Study at 5/7/whatever else you feel like.

Getting this thing: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/thug

lets you, say, run in, sicken them, debilitating wounds them, and then lock them with a penalty on their save because of the sicken. They aren't doing shit against you afterwards, and you can use the free movement during many of their strikes to try to Stealth gambit or to set up other gambits.

Use a two-handed finesse weapon as your main weapon (getting 1.5 Dex to it) and grab Deadly Agility early to retrain later (getting 1.0 Dex on your unarmed strikes)

It's an okay houserule to give them full initiation, but honestly? I'm playing one in a game and it works pretty well without needing it. The Hidden Blade is well-designed and strong. Don't use chained rogue though. This all assumes URogue Hidden Blade.

>>48293033
The Harbinger/Warder/Zealot table is the usual standard.

>>48292954
alignment is evil, diety is neutral evil. forgot to add it.

>>48293034
cool, ill check them out, thanks for the help. Thinking i ought to go with trickery for them skills, but still not too sure. well see.

>>48293073
>>48293061
First time I'm hearing of this houserule.
Is this typically done just for Hidden Blade or all of the archetypes?

>>48293033
Pretty much, yeah. The one I've seen is typically Warder?

What does /pfg/ think about allowing every race to get their 1pp feats free as they level up? (excluding Aasimar and Tieflings and Magical Tail shit)

Looking through them it just looks like a lot of neat fluff stuff that the races should've had in the first place.

>>48292943
Does 2hu have any contributions outside of overall /tg/ seniority?

>>48293085
I don't see it used very often. I personally think the 6-level initiators tend to be much more balanced on their own without buffing them. If you want to give them better maneuvers, give them Advanced Study at key levels for free instead of a full progression.

>>48293085
All of 'em. Replace the archetype table with the Harbinger/Warlord/Zealot table.

It's one of the dev's houserules and it caused a fuss when people started taking it as RAI, which is why everyone specifies very clearly that it's a houserule and was never intended to be RAI.

>>48293082
The Evil domain is pretty good, but only if you're going to be fighting Good things. otherwise it's mostly trash.

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>>48293144

Warlords begin with four readied maneuvers and progress from there, unlike harbingers and warders.

>>48293144
It was one of the devs' houserules for a high-power game*

>>48292319
Prunus Girl was very amusing.

>>48293144
>>48293226
What do you do about disciplines known?
Archetype classes seem to start with 3 rather than the ~6 that full initiators do.

>>48293259
Just give someone discs for free? Leave it as is? You can't focus on all your discs anyway.

>>48293110
Seems like it would be either messy, wildly unbalanced or(most likely) both. Orcs get over 20 racial feats. There are also multiple races that only have 1 racial feat(if, indeed, any).

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>>48293132
>>48293231

Giving pathwalkers, polymaths, and warpath followers full initiation is very ill-advised, because it transforms them into half-casters and full-initiators. That is an abominable combination.

Granting gifted blade psychic armory war souls full initiation is also over-the-top.

In fairness, however, some 6th-level initiators are far better than others. The pathwalker, polymath, and war soul all receive a far better deal than the rubato ever does. The knight-disciple removes the paladin's signature Smite Evil, and the monk of the silver fist cannot even accomplish its implied defender role due to being too personally frail.

>>48291960
Also Mesmerist.

>>48293312
2hutard, nobody actually cares about what you say. You're a retarded faggot who should have died long ago, and you've managed to burn up all the goodwill that you'd acquired. Fuck off elsehwere and kill yourself.

>>48293110
A lot of races have too many or too few feats, also some races feats aren't intended for all concepts (not every drow is of noble blood).

For a race with too few racial feats you need a way to fix this, with races with too many (orcs have like 30) you need a way to restrict it.

Basically it would need more rules. Also you'd need to recognize some races would become a lot stronger at certain roles. It would up the power of the campaign in general.

>>48293302
It'll be messy, sure, but the main objective is to give the races the fluff they want without making them pay an ungodly tax for them.

I feel like the djinn races in particular are in need of this, they have a lot of cool fluff in their feats but they're just not worth taking.

>>48291536
>>48291584
Priests are bad and Cloistered Clerics are bad. The cleric spell list isn't that good, so you won't be casting spells every round. You need to be able to fight.

>>48293347
You had to say that to the one post he's made that's completely and utterly accurate? You have the worst timing possible.

>>48293356
Again for races with few or no racial feats and races with dozens you'd need to strike a balance.

>>48293383
>Accurate

>>48293312
>>48293347
No, she has a point.

>>48293259


On the list, I would say...

Ones you can safely give full initiating to:
>War Soul (non-PsyArm, non-AugBlade)
>Primal Disciple (if they're focusing on strikes instead of full attacking)
>Monk of the Silver Fist
>Knight-Disciple

Ones that would cause problems with full initiating
>Pathwalker (caster)
>Warpath Follower (caster)
>Marksman (whatever it's called) (caster, strong, just boring)
>Polymath (caster)
>Hidden Blade (gambits are super good, full sneak attack is super good on initiators with Fool's Errand, Mithral Current, or similar)
>Initiator's Soul Aegis (hahahahaha no)
>Nightmare (caster)
>Ambush Hunter (it'd be like a ravenlord but living up to its memes)

Ones that are iffier
>Rubato (they have the ability to Empower their strikes. That could get insane)

>>48293359
With three domains you can cast fine. It shores up your spell list nicely.

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>>48293359

In 3.5, cloistered clerics managed quite well by the mid-levels with Knowledge Devotion and Divine Power.

In Pathfinder, Adamant Entertainment's priest works wonders as a "hangover" channeling build.

>>48292939
>A feat can solve this, although a single feat can be a heavy investment in 3.5 unless Unearthed Arcana flaws are allowed.
Yeah, I might just suck it up and go crusader. I mean, aside from iron heart surge I'm not missing that much, am I?

>You could dip into crusader anyway so as to repair the slightly flawed progression of the warblade.
I'm debating going full crusader anyway. The smaller hit dice is a shame, and I prefer having int instead of cha as my initiator stat but it could be worse.

>>48293348
>>48293387

The main reason I haven't really brought up the Orc problem is that I've never seen a PC play a straight Orc since Witch Doctor got changed to not be a con-casting class.

The objective is pretty much, make the shit races less shit. There's probably a less-messier way to do it though.

Any suggestions?

>>48293414
anon speaks truth. You *can* have a shitty cleric, but dont go in thinking your playing a standard cleric and youll be fine. Better than fine because spellcasting is OP, and the cleric spell list is damn good.

>>48293432
Give people a FEW bonus feats from a list that includes their racial feats, deific obedience, story feats, & stuff like skill focus. The feats that give flavor and encourage role play. Make it like 4 bonus feats at 2/4/6/8 or some shit.

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>>48293312

>The pathwalker, polymath, and war soul

I had typed "war soul" here when I had meant "warpath follower."

I also seem to have missed the nightmare, another 6th-level caster (or rather, manifester) that is entitled to half-initiation.

>>48293383

I try to improve my knowledge of the rules. I am curious as to what you believe I consistently err on; could you please expound?

>>48293110
>drow (or half-elf with proper traits) has
>constant detect magic
>dancing lights, darkness, deeper darkness, faerie fire, levitate at-will
>dispel magic, divine favour, suggestion, spider climb 1/day
>shadow spells at +2 caster level
>spell resistance 11 + lvl
>variety of spiders on summon lists

Oh yeah, balanced

>>48293550
drows are broken news at 11

>>48293564
Drow aren't broken if you actually have to spend feats on all of that.

>>48293111
Being cute!

Resting my tits on top of 2hu's head! Agitating their autism with wrong character assumptions! Touching their stomach!

>>48293432
Orcs are far from the only race with excessive amount of racial feats, just the most obvious one. Humans, for example, have 17 racial feats and halflings have 15. Drow are also notable, not because they have excessive number of them(compared to core races, anyway), but because their racial feats are actually quite good and give things like constant detect magic and dispel magic as SLA.

>>48293550
Don't forget that Drow count as elves, so they also get all the elf racial feats.

Half-drow gets the better half of that deal, since they have access to drow, elf, half-elf, and human racial feats. This creates some.. interesting combinations. For example, Neither Human nor Elf means they won't count as human or elf for harmful effects, but they do still count as drow, and Pass for Human means the dark-skinned, white-haired half-drow can disguise himself as human with no penalties at all.

>>48293633
Yeah. It was a stupid idea. I was just thinking about the non-core non-evil races mostly. E.G. Tengu, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Genies etc.

gut judgment.

>>48293683
It's not necessarily a stupid idea, you just can't go all "you get all the racial feats for free, no questions asked." You have to do actual work before you get an implementation that isn't shit, is all.

>>48293737
Honestly you probably need an ongoing whitelist

>>48293737
Probably better to give out some ribbon feats in general. If you've got some racials, take 'em, if not, there's other things that're functionally non-relevant

>>48293778
>>48293755
If I were to do it, I'd probably just rework races to include most of the fluffy stuff and give other buffs to races that are lacking after the fluff feats(now racial traits) are taken into account.

Who made Forrest leave?

>>48293830
Touhoufag did.

>>48293830
Nobody knows. Shitposters claim to know, and are lying to incite drama.

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>>48293830
I'm right here, anon.

>>48293853
Oh shush.

>>48293830
Multiple incidences with different people did.

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>>48293893
But do you like blinklings?

>>48293893
Please come back to IRC

>>48293917
No-one likes blinklings.

>>48293893
We miss your terrible "jokes" Forrest

>>48293605

Anon please, don't bully 2hu with your boob-hatting ways.

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>>48293966
I like blinklings

>>48293899
Keeping irc discussion to spoilers so people who don't care don't have to see. This anon has it right. The drama happened multiple times and kept causing issues.

>>48293917
They're okay. I don't have the same animosity towards them that many do but I don't particularly /like/ them either. There's weirder pairings in fantasy, but also ones I find much more palatable.

>>48294010
Would you say you're puncomfortable without them

>>48294039
Every moment without them is an eternity of pun-ishment

>>48294039
>Would you say you're puncomfortable without them

Absolutely not ( - 3 - )

>>48294029
You're not a person.

>>48294029

Kitsune = Witchwolf > Blinklings > Catfolk

>>48294077
Replace "witchwolf" with "witchwolf = coldborn"

>>48294114

Bear-girls make great moms!

>>48294158
Bear-girls are a sorely under-appreciated archetype. Teddy ears!

>>48294158

They're un-bearably strict though.

>>48294174
Shock! Kuma shock!

Definitely for the best, though. I think we need less kemonomimi races. Except angora bunny-boys.

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>>48294198

>This is an actual animal that exists

I don't know whether I should be alarmed or really, really happy.

>>48294214
We had an artist yesterday come in and draw a few. Angora was totally chosen, lemme see if I can find it.

>>48294174
>>48294158

Problem with bear-girls is they're generally only good as MILFs.

Kitsune and Witchwolves enjoy a wide range of potential character backstories, personalities or even designs. The other skinwalkers and especially Catfolk tend to suffer from being typecast into very specific origins or roles.

Friendly reminder to pet your party Witchwolf.

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>>48294214
Sasha Turk
>>>48282901

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Rate my group

>>48294257
Boo

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I know the thread's about to die, but I'm impatient and will probably be busy before the next one gets posted. For anyone who really, really wanted to fight with their hair, the Warbraid Stregone Archetype has a mostly functional first draft. It doesn't have nearly enough hair puns, but I finished most of it at like, 12 at night, so cut me some slack.

Link to the Archetypes Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rstP70t2_Ljqk232Nhj_INWnIesqXTn5REnsT_0_Cpc/edit?usp=sharing
Link to the base class is at the top for reference. Can't miss it.

>>48294257

Who let a Warforged and Changeling into a proper drinking establishment?

They've got their own places to stink up.

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>>48294233
>only good as MILFs
Wroooooong!

>>48294233
What character archetypes do Witchwolves even fall into? I can only imagine "psycho murder gypsy".

>>48294301
Witchwolves are just.. wolfgirls. Go watch Spice & Wolf (great show), or .hack//Legend of the Twilight (great manga, bad show)

>>48294301

They're everything from cherished to reviled depending on where you have them come from (Andoran doesn't like them, LotLK does) and can have origins that range from a merchant family's secret shame to the spunky sworn protector of another PC (session 0 is fun when you manage to work out those kinds of party interactions.)

They're basically a lycanthrope without dealing with the problems of lycanthropy.

>>48294378
No, witchwolves are actual furries, man.

They're human or furry, there's no middleground.

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>Destruction blessing
>Divine favor
>Sacred weapon
Warpriest OP. Pls nerf.

>>48294411
Could you kindly fuck off with your autism, please?