EDH/Commander general

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Post your favorite card you think no one else uses. Bonus points if it's not normally posted here.

This bastard with +1/+1 counters is a giant pain in the ass. He's my mimeo's best friend.

How fun/good is Zur, the Enchanter?

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Any recommendations for this guy? I want to make it "destroy everything" with a side of voltron.

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I threw together a jank Jalira deck that I'm considering running. It's got a price tag, but it's relatively budget for commander.
The general premise is to spam tokens, steal shit, and sacrafice your tokens or the opponent's creatures to Jalira to cheat out big dudes.

Any advice is appreciated, it's an early prototype.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jalira-edh-aka-stealing-and-cheating/

>>48227298
Quite good, miserable to play against.

>>48227297
I think Blighted Agent is a better option, personally.

>>48227308
Illusionist's Bracers and Rings of Brighthearth.

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>>48227347
Oh, sure it is because you can actually play blighted agent, and it gives it true unblockability, but the draw back is that it's only a 1/1. I think it's easier to drop 7 +1/+1 counters than 9.

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>>48227297

>>48227298
Incredibly powerful, however no one will want to play with you, he's borderline Derevi/Narset levels of unfun.

>>48227347
Bracers are in there, Rings are aquireboard. It's pretty expensive.

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>>48227298

In order, how do you rank the 3-color combinations from strongest to weakest?

>>48227505
BUG > WUG > RUG > the rest.

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>>48227297
People usually get BTFO when I play this. Then everyone shits their pants after reading it.

>>48227398
I use these with Scry lands in my scion edh. Love em.

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>>48227297

>>48227597
Probably more of an availability issue than a choice.

>>48227623
Also the fact that it's not TERRIBLY great in most decks. It's harder to build a "Recruiter package" than a Sunforger package or a Bellower package, and there's not as much value.

But I run a Clone tribal deck, so that card is 100% gas.

>>48227643
Seems like a perfect fit for an Alesha deck.

>>48227651
Like I said, 'most decks'. It's super spicy tech in the decks that can use it, but elsewhere it's not terribly impressive. Great for Alesha or Hydras though.

>>48227505

>Tier S
Sultai
>Tier A
Bant, Temur, Abzan, Jund, Grixis
>Tier B
Esper, Jeskai, Naya, Mardu

>>48227643

You're simply wrong on this, recruiter is much easier to build around than sunforger or bellower (green creatures only)

Imperial recruiter is perfect for setting up low to the ground creature combos

>>48227643
Yea. Its not all inclusive.

I use him in daretti to get squee for free card draws. Plus flavor win.

>>48227696
Its less inclusive than Bellower. Every green deck will have eternal witness.

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>>48227297
It always comes out of fucking nowhere.

>>48227659
I feel like a lot of decks have utility creatures with power 2 or less.

>>48227505

Anything with UG > pretty much everything else > Anything with RW

>>48227699
>recruiting a squee for free discards
You have my respect, sir.

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>>48227297
I have no idea why I don't see anybody using this guy.

>>48227751
Holy friggity fuck, I've never seen that before and I would absolutely run it.

>>48227505
Depends on the commander. I can name some awful colour combinations with excellent commanders, like Uril, it just depends on what you want to build.

But in general, UGx > WBx > the rest. In UGx you get all the land ramp and card draw that you want. In WBx, you get all of the removal that exists.

>>48227798
The Anti-Red commanders this year will be fun

>>48227843
I'm more excited for anti-white and anti-blue. Fuck that shit. White is the only colour I can think of that's useless on its own, but amazing in just about anything. Blue can be neat, but fuck mono-blue and UR combo players hard.

>>48227870
If Eldritch moon didn't have all those white Eldrazis, I would make Anti-White Eldrazi Tribal

>>48227892
Also, Eldrazi "I'm really worth $40 as soon as a combo breaks me" Displacer is pretty cool. I'm pissed that devoid cards have a colour identity. Literally why? I have to run some 5 colour bullshit just to use cards that are explicitly colourless? That's some meta-bullshit right there.

Top tier:
Esper, Sultai

Mid tier:
Mardu, Naya, Jund, Grixis

Low tier
Temur, Bant, Jeskai, Abzan

>>48227959
>UGx
>Low Tier

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>>48227959
>I haven't been playing magic very long: the post

>>48227724
I've gotten a table flip from this card before

So gloriously salty

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Thinking of doing a falcon deck with banding, what do you guys think?

>>48228146
Falcons don't exist in MTG, anon

it's Birds

>>48228029
Longer than you kiddo. I'm basing my answers off of my local meta. Most are 2 color decks.

>>48228175
Then the people you're playing with are fucking morons. In no universe is "where is my card advantage" Mardu better than UGx.

>>48227298
>fun
not
>good
very

all of your games will be "play zur, attack with zur, get some enchantments that make you impossible to disrupt and you just keep doing that until you win"
its boring as fuck to play

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>>48228146
>what do you guys think

Well, it will obviously be awful, and doesn't even get blue birds.

I'd start with ways to recover from wrath effects. Such as pic related.

>>48228190
I didnt say it was better. When there's more Zurgo and Kaalia decks than there are.... What even are the go to Temur legends?
Then my experience and opinions will be different. Is this all new to you?

>>48228338
To ad, in a vacuum I know ugx is the most versatile and dominate combo.

There's a diverse meta where I live. Not everyone net decks the top deck. That would kill the format pretty quick. I'm sorry that your meta is stale.

>>48227298
He is wicked fun and is super power. If you don't like quick combo than it is best to stay away

>>48228387

A Tier list is about the top decks though....

You make no sense

>>48227584
I saw that in a previous thread and immediately bought one.

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I'm requesting help on this deck I'm building

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/daxos-enchantment-lord/

Halp. Please. I'm begging.

>>48228529
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/daxos-enchantment-lord/
>begging for help
>has 12 basic lands
Yup, you get nothing with that optimized deck list.

>>48228529
>902$
>Halp. Please

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>>48227297
It does some very silly things sometimes. One of my favorite is plucking lands out of an Extraplanar Lens.

>>48227505
Esper jund and sulti are the most powerful because they have the best commanders. Then patriot bant and rug are the next best. The others are hardly worth playing for competitive use

>>48228475
What do I care what top decks are in Chicago or Japan?

I gave a personal opinion based on experience. Get over it

>>48228529

>2x no mercy

JUDGE

>>48228719

I'm not the same person you were arguing with, sorry I made you upset, I was just saying, if you already knew that UGx was the best, you're thought process makes no sense to me

>>48228719
the question wasn't about your personal experience or your local meta though.

>>48228667

You're dumb dude

WUR has bad commander options which contradicts your post, also claiming that WBG isn't worth playing is dumb

>>48228797
>WUR has bad commander options
>Narset, Zedru, Shun Yu
>bad
choose one

>>48228834

Narset is the only one of those that's good, whereas zedruu and shu yun are just playable

What is must have utility to run in Mardu (WBR) and specifically for Kaalia?
Here is my list and I just can't help but feel like it's missing something, aside from literally missing 5 cards.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-03-16-work-in-progress/

>>48228797
Besides karador name one good commander

>>48228885
While Narset is clearly the strongest Shun Yu is certainly more than playable.

>>48228964
anafenza and Ghave are pretty good as well.
imo wbg also is the best color for reanimator decks and you don't even need to run Karador as commander.

>>48228610
>>48228646
It has 40 proxies, so far. I'll most likely never actually get to that value, especially taking in account roughly 200-300$ are in the land base. The version I'll be playing will have more basics.

Regardless, I'm looking for help more on the enchantment stuff. This is the second deck I'm building, my first one was a mono black goodstuff, so I don't really have much of a clue regarding this. I think I should try to include what I put in the maybeboard, but I have no idea what to exclude. Also increase the land count to 35, maybe. I've been playtesting this in a vacuum, I think maybe I won't have to change anything with the lands, but we all know a vacuum doesn't mean jackshit.

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>anyone thinks that Naya is not top tier
moo

>>48229085
>40 proxies
Stop.

>>48229016
We are talking competitively, no they are not

>>48229120
How else am I supposed to test this before knowing it's worth getting the cards? Online with playgroups that don't resemble mine at all?

>>48228795
>How do YOU rank

You can STOL embarrassing yourself now.

>>48229110
I love how it was errata'd between the time it was printed and the time it actually shipped.

>>48229110
>Moo
>Not "b'aaah"

>>48229171
If your deck is so heavily based around your meta that online testing means nothing, then I have bad news for you.

>>48229175
What the fuck is STOL and why does my phone auto correct to it.

>>48227231
Anyone use any online deck builders? (or even ones for your phone?). GOOD being top priority, Free being next.

If so what do you use?

>>48228663
Welp I have known about this card for a while now, but I guess I never actually thought about it, because thats genius. Excuse me while I go spend some money.

How good is this in mimeoplasm? Anyone test it out or experimented with it?

>>48229199
It's more like the few times I've tried playing online, maybe I was just unlucky, but I just found players that didn't do jack shit or played with the jankiest shit ever. However, my experience seems to be more consistent both in my playgroup and at a store in a different town. So I yeah. I'm kinda wary of online testing.

>>48229241
Tappedout

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>>48229253
Wew

>>48229242
A couple times people have been about to remove an Oblivion Ring to get something back and you just Pull it out from under them. I've also had a lot of fun with people going out of their way to exile combo pieces and then I just Pull them right into place. It has a lot of versatility and all of it is just stuff that's seemingly really dumb and unexpected.

>>48229110
I think that Rith is baller

>>48229276
How much do the cards you proxy cost?

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>>48229370
>>48229120
>guy in my group has a nath deck completely proxied sans the basic lands
>he's been playing it for 5 months now

I mean I don't mind it cause he barely wins but seriously the deck is maybe $80 its just laziness at that point

>>48228338
>Zurgo and Kaalia
>Strong

>>48229370
Total? Like 550$ according to the prices on the tappedout links. Roughly 200$ of these are in lands alone (Scrubland, Marsh Flats, Fetid Heath and Maze of Ith being the most expensive lands I don't own). I'll probably take over a year to fully assemble it, considering I'm just a student with no job yet.

>>48229487
>proxying the og dual lands

There's nothing wrong with this and I own tropical island. Prices for the dual lands are ridiculous

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>>48227297

>>48229507
I honestly wish I had started out playing mtg years before. Maybe I would've had the good sense of buying a couple of those before their prices went up.

>>48229507

I don't think there's anything wrong with proxying cards that cost more than $50 in EDH. If you're kitchen table, who gives a fuck? If you're going to a flgs, it's just smart to proxy duals in case your deck gets stolen.

>>48229319
Ew...

>>48229542
I pulled the island, never got the others.

>>48229610
My LGS is cool on proxies, hell vintage and legacy they don't care whatever you proxy unless its something then you're just be a jackass. I don't care about proxies of obviously expensive cards but proxy of cheaps cards or cards that are pricey but your deck doesnt like how not every blue deck needs consecrated sphinx

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Hey do "When you cast" effects happen even if the spell gets countered?
>Pic

>>48229723
It does. That's a trigger that goes on the stack and resolves before the actual spell even gets to resolve, fyi.

>>48229723
yup!

>>48227298
People saying Zur can't be fun are just butthurt. I play a toolbox-y Zur deck and it's tons of fun. The only thing that is really douchey in it is Enchanted Evening + Aura Thief, and I've gotten that combo off once in dozens of games played with the deck. It's specifically built to not be super overpowered, but it can still win if it goes unchecked. It's mainly enchantron and pillowfort, with a few "fun" cards that help my overall game plan, like Dovescape.

>>48228663
that's fucking savage

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>>48227297
no one ever expects green to crush creatures like this. The surprise has been cheapened now that Beast Within and Song of the Dryads exist, but I'm not complain about green getting such obscene removal

I don't know why I mind proxies of expensive cards. I guess in my mind, expensive cards are expensive because they are broken as hell.

I don't know why it suddenly becomes okay if they spent a lot of money on it. I guess in my mind, I can't ask people to not use expensive cards, but I have free reign over proxies.

Pretty douchey on my part.!

>>48230018
to my knowledge no other /tg pastime has the kind of shit about proxies that MtG does. You'd get fucking laughed at if you brought proxies to a wargame.

>>48230073
Implying you can tell my chinaman castings apart

Also, fucking everyobody was crying out their ass for KD:Monsters scans, how is that any different?

In fact, I'm pretty fucking sure we have semi-regular pdf sharing that is essentially a giant piracy circlejerk.

>>48229982
now even better with the new Sigarda's Aid

>>48230241
>Flash Lignify/Song of the Dryads
>Flash Oblivion Ring/that all players oblivion ring in C15
jesus christ my dick

>>48229140

Competitive ghave is on the same level as competitive Narset and way way better than shu yun

>>48230261
O-ring isn't an aura tho

>>48230280
Fuck I forgot
Flash Darksteel Mutation then?

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>>48229851
>tons of fun
>dovescape

>>48230321
Alesha is actually R/W/B.

She's pretty stronk, too.

Along a similar vein, maybe check out Marchesa the black rose.

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hey guys i'm a big retard and still somewhat new to mtg, can you recommend me a sick cool EDH commander?

things i like:

tribals
resurrection
commanders that are hard to kill
low prices

colors i like:

red > white = black > green >>> blue

the deck is mostly going to be for multiplayer. so far, i've been looking at alesha and wort, boggart auntie, but i don't know about the first one and the latter one seems to be for expensive tryhard combo decks

help guys lmao

if you saw my identical previous posts, i deleted them because i made bad mistakes

>>48230321
Wort is fun and dirt cheap

>>48230313
that works
>>48230321
Alesha is WRB
also, i would go for Horde of notions
it's big, tribal, graveyard themed, and a lot of elementals from Lorwyn with not terrible effects are pretty cheap
i personally use Maze's End and RTR Guildgates as an alternate win condition and very inexpensive color fixing, and lots of panchromatic mana rocks
>>48230339
Reconnaissance isn't terribly expensive and works wonders with alesha
>>48230360
>i made bad mistakes
hi yes hello welcome to EDH

Is there anything worse than whiffing Whims of the Fates on an overcrowded board?

>>48230399
yeah i guess i'll go for a wort but refrain from the "here's my 2000 dollar deck that inf combos at turn 4 and ends the game" autism and go for some cheapo cards instead

any tips to building this thing with the best cost/effectiveness ratio? i'm somewhat poor but more than that i don't want to spend too much money on cardboard

>>48230468

What attracts people to randomness?

>>48230561

Depends on how cheap you want to go

Edh is pay to win, or at least, pay to have options, if you want to win on an extreme budget, your choices are limited to a few established gimmicks that work

Whereas if you're willing to spend $200-$500 on your deck, you can make almost any commander work

>>48227302
I'm not sure there's enough white arcane/spirit spells to make it work.

>>48228663
Pull from Eternity and the elf that does the same thing on etb are my favorite cards for fucking with people. So many niche uses.

>>48230643
my friends aren't making pay2win decks either. most of them are in the 100 dollar range as far as i know. so i guess that's as far as i'll go.

i copied some deck i found on tappedout and took all the tryhard shit out of it and i got this. about 30 cards short

http://pastebin.com/EvQ5qcdz

expensive nonbasic lands and combo decks can suck my dick as far as i'm concerned

If you could remove a single commander from the game, which would it be?

Oloro is for fags

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I'm planning to make an Augustin IV stax deck soon.

Anyone have any hot tips before I start?

>>48227584
Fug I wanted to be the one to post this. This card is a ton of fun.

>>48227584
> with scry lands

Fug that's a good idea. Why have I never thought about that?

>>48227302
Is it bad that my first thought upon seeing this card was 'huh, I wonder if there's any arcane or spirit spells with cmc 0'

>>48230996
Unfortunately, Conspiracy is black, so it won't be in that deck. Otherwise, that + Memnite or Ornithopter would work.

>>48230468
honestly the worst feeling would be getting blown out by such a shit card

>>48230643
>twentydollarsplusshipping.jpeg

>>48230996
there are, but good luck casting them in mono-white EDH

>>48228529
Take out the bad cards and put in good cards.

>>48231121
there's that one, blue arcane spell without a mana cost that's supposed to be spliced. But yeah, you'd need blue and red for that.

>>48231041
Are you kidding. My mono red shenanigans edh loves that card. And when I go all into one pile people are like weeeeee all in. Usually kills one player. Sometimes two.

>>48231220
Gladly!

>>48229140
What are you on about? Boonweaver Karador is one of the signature decks of competitive edh.

>>48230360
Alesha is cute, my friend has a fun deck but one combo he uses whenever someone is open really pisses me off, especially considering the amount of "Indestructable Alesha + Nuke" effects he spams.

A guy runs her with Master of Cruelties, She swings at an opponent, paying 2 mana to get Master into play attacking, circumventing his "attack alone" clause. If they can't block, he is removed and their health is set to 1. Then Alesha resolves her combat damage.

>>48231700
as fun as that sounds, i'm not sure i want to make a combo deck that just 100-0s people to death. i tried a combo deck out in cockatrice once and it just pissed everyone off

I'm thinking of doing something I've never done before. I'm thinking of straight up ordering an entire deck list worth of stuff rather than digging through my stuff, driving to local shops and trading.

Anyone ever do this? Any things to look out for and avoid? The deck is only 200 bucks-ish.

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>mfw my sphinx ambassador arrived in mail today

Time to add the finishing touch to my old Isperia deck

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>>48231896
I try to not spend money and im lazy (store is like 5 mins walk away) today i needed more sleeves for a deck, i could have gone and bought some but instead i went through my binders and use any black sleeves i had in there and replaced them with penny sleeves

Alright lads, we all know EDH is fun as shit, but sometimes you just need to build a deck to be a royal asshole.

It is now that time. I need to become that asshole. What is the best commander and archetype for becoming No Fun Allowed incarnate?

>>48232317
just play a lot of cards "search your deck for x card and shuffle" and make your turns last 30 minutes on average

>>48232317
>newzuri
>all the ramp and draw
>sprinkle in standard removal suite + counters
>add a sage of hours and deadeye navigator

spend all your turns bouncing an acidic slime

>>48230567
It's fun sometimes when you manage to make someone sacrifice their entire board with Tyrant of Discord.

>>48232317
Izzet Chaos. I have had a single turn take almost an hour. In a 6-man game.

People scooped.

>my 200 cheap foils arrived in the mail

HAHA TIME TO GET HIGH OFF ACETONE

>>48232317
Crab Umbra on Soldier of Fortune with infinite mana. Activate it until all your opponents concede.

>>48232605
even if you're making foil proxies, I cannot imagine what deck you would need 200 for.

>>48232629
You are an evil man and I love you

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Why don't people play this? It's so fun

>>48232605
Is it easy to make proxies from foils?

>>48232317
Derevi stax. Stax in general.

>>48232655
Because someone could topdeck free removal

>>48232317
PHELDDAGRIF STAX

No one expects to get buttfucked by a happy flying hippo.

>>48232651
Decks.

>>48232656
Would be easier if office depot still carried window decals

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Spicy Dralnu tech coming through if anyone wants it

>>48232755
shame Dralnu doesn't have red in his CI so you could play Shaman's Trance.

>>48232837
Holy shit

Wow that would have been cool

>>48227302
too color restrictive

>>48232837
>Shaman's Trance
SHIT is there any way to give every graveyard flashback? That on Mizzix would be baller.

>>48232865
Yawgmoth's motherfucking Will

>>48232892
You should probably read Yawgmoth's Will again

>>48232570

So it's not really the randomness but the small possibility of extreme value

See mind twist seems great to me, you can whiff on a huge hand, but for the most part, the randomness is a positive, tyrant of discord is kinda similar, whereas a lot of these "heads you win, tails you lose" red cards seem really stupid

>>48232911

It's in combination with shaman's trance

>>48233038
Oh jeez that's actually pretty neat

I should never have doubted you, pls forgive

>>48233106

Yeah, only problem is the original poster wanted it for mizzix,

>>48233014
The extreme value is only the bonus, the main thing is seeing the salt in your opponent.

>>48232655
I once enchanted a guy with Curse of Exhaustion when this was out. The lock was frightening.

>>48233265
Oh Jesus that's evil

>>48233038
>>48233137
fuck, I was thinking about building Sedris, now I know what needs to be done

>>48232656
>>48232737
Print through FedEx on transparency. $4 for 9 cards, and it's thinner than the original decal method.

Just wanted to thank the Anon that helped me update my Roon lands deck. It runs much more smoothly now. Had a game with Titania, Amulet of Vigor, Roon, and Myroad Landscape on the field and more or less pulled every basic out of my deck (no one else in my meta runs LD) and a small army of 5/3 Elementals on my side. It's hardly a powerhouse, but damn that was fun.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/roon-of-the-awakened-realm/

>>48232656
>>48232737
>>48233372
>Making fake foils

I didn't think it could get anymore retarded

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>>48227297
Stupid fuck trying to target one of your permanents with removal? Dumb fuck targe5ing the wrong thing? Gay fuck trying to counter one of your spells? This card solves.them all, fo4 the low, low price of 2 mana! Best part is, nobody really ever sees it coming.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-great-cycle-v20/

how much more tuned can this get? i know i can replace sisters for sidisi, and evolving for overgrown tomb, but aside that, ive gotten better results with the banshee than shriekmaw

>>48233755
Garbage

>>48233265
Nice. I brought out nicol bolas and karn in two turns with it once.

>>48230719
>>48230996
>>48232858
The list is actually progressing fairly well. A voltron deck where every other card is a miniwipe is neat, and it's at that sweet spot where it's good enough to win, but weak enough to be somewhat ignored, especially if you can get something like ghostly prison down.

>>48234544
How so? Not the anon who posted it but interested in hearing your reasoning.

>>48233755
That's the best part of Imp's Mischief. Nobody ever expects this effect from monoblack.

>>48234622
I'm not sure if it's been brought up, I'm going to bed after I post and I don't feel like digging through the reply chain, but the way I see this most done is W Tokens, since your tokens survive the wipe, and just play a suite of well-rounded cmc arcane spells

>>48234877
That makes a lot of sense, but I think I'm going to try it as aura voltron first, just for fun. Are there any indestructibilty things I might be missing?

>>48230360
>>48230829
>>48231885

What's with all the combo hate? I like 4 hours of durdling as much as the next guy, and it can be obnoxious when a deck combos out consistently on turn 3-6, but there's nothing wrong with ending a game efficiently.

>>48234904
Its really a matter of meta. I honestly don't mind combo if, and only if, all players are playing with that sort of shenanigans in mind. This means several players splashed in blue, plenty of counter magic, and people purposely watching for and disrupting combos.

Nothing worse than sitting down with 3 other people, one is combo, and the other two are oblivious (even worse if the combo player politics them into doing stupid shit.)

Personally, I don't find it fun to just play 2 cards and say "I win". But that's an opinion. Since my good friends like to play dumb creatures and token swarm, I'm fine with never comboing at all. If I play at my local store, its either combo, control, or combo/control, however.

>>48234904

I don't get it either. Games need to end at some point, and combo is the best way to do it. Look at it this way, without combo, one person is more likely to get killed and have to wait for hours while the game finishes. I've seen it happen, and its happened to me. It fucking sucks.

What happens when someone combos? Oh no! We shuffle up and play again! The horror!

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>>48234968
>combo is the best way to do it

>>48234968
>>What happens when someone combos? Oh no! We shuffle up and play again! The horror!

until someone combos again

the problem with combo decks is that they're not very dangerous until they get their combos, at which point they end the game. it's just anticlimactic to have a battle going on with a guy and then some guy just says "ok i have krenko and blah blah i win now gg no re"

and i say this as someone who has been playing combo decks in the past

I just discovered that my only EDH deck is tier one competitive with around 6-10 changes, so I want to build a more casual deck for when I don't want to play archenemy. What's a fun and reasonably cheap commander with a neat gimmick that hasn't been done 10000000000000 times before?

>>48235088
The best combo decks have game outside of the combos

>>48235172
tell that to Oloro players

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>>48235143

>>48235254
I'm honestly very tempted.

>>48235193
Oloro was not a very good example, it is a true control deck while it's not comboing. Just because you don't like control doesn't make it not count

>>48235088

Most decks I've seen that win through an infinite combo are more controlly and essentially win by attrition but instead of winning over 10 turns with the game essentially locked up already they have a combo somewhere in the deck to close it out quicker

My playgroup allows all infinite combos and we've never had a player make a deck that was all combos except one person, he made an ultra high power storm deck that is pretty fun to play against anyway because it's archenemy no matter what, none of us can afford to give him a single turn of respite or we all lose at once on turn 5

I didn't say I don't like control.

My point was that Oloro is a commander that relies on combo win.

>>48235088
I play splinter twin in RUG. People have only got salty at me when I cast tooth and nail with counterspell backup.

>>48235354

I thought we were taking about commanders that do nothing until they win with an infinite combo, i.e. Some kind of gimmick deck like a hermit Druid deck

Oloro is usually a control deck that wins by an infinite combo

>>48235354
Pretty much every control deck has a combo to win. That same deck can probably beat one on one without it, but to win a four player game it's necessary. That's generally how it works for me playing Teferi, where I can win by beating down with an Eldrazi backed by counters in 1v1 but it's not possible in multiplayer. If it's a control deck with a combo wincon, it isn't a dedicated combo deck where it does nothing but combo. This is the same principle that makes aggro not work in multiplayer as well. I wasn't under the impression the criticism was having a combo at all, but decks that do nothing but combo, which there are but most of the good ones do something else until or if it can't combo.

>>48234282
bumping for opinnions

>>48235404
>>48235405
My criticism is for commanders that rely on nothing but combo for their wins.
Oloro has no game outside of comboing out. Sadistic sacrament him and the player just sits their doing nothing for the rest of the match

>>48234282

Morkrut banshee is fine but there's really no excuse for not having Shriekmaw in the deck

Also maybe you prefer the banshee because it hits indestructible and black creatures, but Shriekmaw is the superior card (with great art too)

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What other cards should I add for my Sidisi tutor deck?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/danse-macabre-4/

no Triskelion pls

>>48235525
wurmcoil engine

>>48235525
Bitterblossom/Ophiomancer + Contamination lock.

>>48234958
That makes sense, I play in a few consistent metas, so we all kind of know who has combos, and how they play, so they're manageable. I could see how combos could be obnoxious when no one knows when or who is gonna drop them. The way I see it there are 2 types of combos:

Incidental combos, where each of the pieces are powerful or synergistic on their own, like Kiki-Jiki/Conscripts (from my own Zada deck). Each piece is great on it's own, and if you get both they tend to win the game.

Shoehorned combos, where one or more pieces are nigh useless on their own. My friend has a nekusar deck that used to run the Mindcrank/Bloodchief ascension combo. The ascension is extremely strong on it's own, and works well with the rest of the deck, but mindcrank has none of these synergies, and he just added it for the chance to combo out. I suggested he replace the crank with duskmantle guildmage, which still goes infinite and works well with all the wheels he runs.

>>48235088
If a combo deck can't protect itself, and relies on pity or nut draws to win it is shitty and degenerate, and they deserve to have their shit pushed in. When you see those decks, gang up on them and take them out before they win anticlimactically. Hell, if there is only one combo deck against 2-4 fair decks, you should gang up on them anyways, leaving them alone is just letting them win. Either they learn to make an interactive, powerful combo deck, that can deal with hate, or you convince them that combo is not worth playing. No matter what they do, your meta is improved.

>>48235500

That's not my experience vs oloro decks

Sadistic sacrament does nothing vs a deck that draws constantly and plays a board wipe and a counterspell every turn

You can beat down for the win with trinket Mage and oloro himself once you have the game locked up, most people just prefer to combo, it's more powerful and effective against other good decks that are hard to control indefinitely

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>playing nekusar against daretti player
>typical daretti fag, sneaking shit into his graveyard under the pretense of "discarding 2 mountains to draw 2 mountains" until he gets darksteel forge, clock of omens, unwinding clock, etc.
>play this meh-ish as soon as I see forge and omens in his graveyard
>complains about R/B having bullshit combos and scoops

>>48235500
See, no, this is wrong. oloro is a control deck. It wins like control decks do. Commander decks just have the convenience of having access to the eternal card pool to put together combos that can win easier at a 4+ man table than beating down with a Snapcaster Mage or Vendilion Clique

>>48235525
Also Undying Evil for an extra tutor

>>48235575
I've never seen Oloro be cast in any of my playgroups

>>48235606
Well, in the context of my playgroup, you're wrong. The Oloro player just pillowforts until he can either get a sanguine bond/exquisite blood loop or generate infinite mana for an exsanguinate/force draw.

>>48235659
Oloro crumbles to tainted remedy, brosef. Have an oloro player in my group and always gets targeted no matter what everyone else has. Honestly oloro is overrated

>>48235659
Sounds to me like you're confusing "pillowforting" with just being a control deck. Also his color identity includes Bue and Black and his combo of choice is fucking Sanguine Bond/Exquisite Blood?

>>48235500
1) if a deck that is 100% reliant on combo lets you resolve a sadistic sacrament, they deserve to lose.

2) I play oloro, and the only combo is Skirge Familiar/Confessor/Oloro (and Test of Endurance, if you count alternate wincons). The main win condition is grinding them out with Oloro, Palace Siege, Triskadekaiphobia, Retreat to Hagra, Psychosis Crawler, etc. I've also got a minigame going where each person who loses to Triskaidekaphobia has to sign it. The goal is to get 13 signatures. I'm super excited for Cryptolith Fragment.

I know it's not the optimized build, but I've already got a decently tuned Teferi deck, and I like having different power levels across my decks. It holds up well against mid level decks, and is tons of fun.

>>48235693
>Tainted fucking Remedy

>>48235716
Hey just because you can't use it in your deck because you have a group of shitters doesn't make it a bad.

>>48235696
ghostly prison + propaganda + dissipation field + windborn muse isn't pillowforting?

>>48235748
It's controlling, and the point is that playing cards isn't doing nothing until you combo. Also I'm sorry but this sounds like a really shit Oloro deck.

>>48235659

That's the fucking point you tard

He doesn't cast oloro because it's easier to just combo off, but if he didn't have the combo, he would still be able to win like any other control deck, just answer everything, "pillow fort up" and eventually win with incremental advantage

>>48235779
those are textbook pillow fort cards

>>48235748

Why does that not count as doing something?

>deck does nothing until it combos
>here's 4 spells he plays while he's doing nothing

>>48235798
Nigger at what point did I give the impression I didn't know that?

Of course he doesn't cast him. This whole discourse was started over someone saying that Oloro has a reliable gameplan outside of comboing out, which in my exposure to him, isn't the case.

>>48235826
by "doing something" I mean win conditions

>>48235907
Propaganda is a wincon

>>48235924
>doesn't deal (commander) damage
>doesn't force draw/mill
>doesn't give poison counters
>doesn't have a "win/lose the game" clause

no, it's not

>>48235877

The game plan is to control the game and prevent everybody else from winning

How the oloro deck actually closes out the game is irrelevant, that's what you're missing

In other formats, control decks often win just by decking the opponent, they get some sort of card draw tutor engine going and overwhelm their opponents with too many board wipes removal and counterspells for them to win

A combo deck is different, a combo deck is all in on the wincon, they forego disruption and try to win through redundancy and speed, to overcome all disruption

>>48235959

My Azami deck often wins by venser + deadeye navigator bouncing as many spells and permanents as I have mana for

Like ostensibly I'm winning through damage (nav is a 5/5 after all), but everybody scoops before that anyway and it would be silly for me to say my Azami deck wincon is deadeye navigator beatdown

You gotta learn to think outside the box, preventing your opponents from winning is not really much different from dealing 40 damage to them

>>48236053
none of that makes propaganda a win condition

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>>48236053
>deadeye navigator

I have never seen anyone not be a massive fucking faggot with that card. I hope you contemplate your life purpose

>>48236021
You're missing that this entire discussion is about how Oloro closes out the game, which makes it quite relevant.

>>48236151

Haha, I'm sorry it bothers you

maybe you should respond to the soul bound trigger with a kill spell ??

If it makes you feel better I prefer the more stylish play of archaeomancer + venser + ghostly flicker to do the same thing basically

And I can tutor all 3 of those whereas I don't run any tutors that can grab deadeye nav

>>48236088

I wasn't the person saying propaganda is a wincon, but really, propaganda + card draw + counterspells, etc IS a wincon

>>48236185
Well you use it in mono blue, you're still a faggot but at least you're honest about

>>48231896
If you buy from tcgplayer you might end up getting like 15 packages. I try to buy all my cards from one website

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>>48227505

>best
Sultai
Bant
Temur
Esper
Abzan
Grixis
Jund
Naya
Jeskai
Mardu
>worst

UG(x) is overpowered in commander.

>>48235593
>rakdos charm
my nigga
feels good to cast it when someone goes off with twin or kiki-conscripts

>>48236247

Have you ever played mono blue? It's a lot of fun

Bouncing your own guys to use them again and what not, drawing lots of cards so you always have options, clones give you even more options

>>48236329
>Have you ever played mono blue
No because I have jack shit commanders of mono blue. Doesn't stop me from laying beatdown on my mono blue friends

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Should I?

>>48236372

How do you acquire commanders?

I just build decks off of ideas, with the list online, and only then do I buy the commander

If you're just going off what you open in packs I can see how that would limit your options, unless you've been playing for like 10 years

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>>48236400
Don't be a pussy, do it.

>>48236400
if you do, Sundial of the Infinite is your friend

>>48236422
I buy most of my commanders, only have 4 decks but I have at least 40 legendaries. Just that my mono blue choices ain't so good

>Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur(used in my sultai deck)
>Uyo, Silent Prophet
>Alhammaret, Grand Arbiter
>Lorthos the Tidemaker

>>48236488
Just play Lorthos. Lock the opponents out of the game, then beat their faces in when they are helpless. High mana cost means nothing, the game is going to last forever anyway if you're playing mono-blue.

>>48236516
>Just play Lorthos

Can almost guarantee he would get hated on in my group before he was even out. I could just get the teferi precon and edit it to hell but I can't work up the energy to do so

>>48236582
Anyone in their right mind is going to hate on mono-blue anyway.

>>48236582
>>48236631

Anyone in their right mind should "hate on" everybody who is trying to win

I mean they are literally trying to make you lose the game, why wouldn't you stop them?

>>48236582
>the teferi precon
That makes you a massive autist

>>48236631
Just the more reason to not make one

>>48236647
They say commander is a casual format...
>>48236682
>That makes you a massive autist
Does this apply to buying the other precons as well?

>>48236725
No. Mono blue in general is for massive autists. Most mono blue commanders have some stupid unfun infinite wincon. Because of this every mono blue fag thinks they have a crazy cool/unique win con but some infinite draw+ Mana+ counterspell lock is just fucking boring. Essentially just masterbating on the table.Teferi is easily one of them.

I really want to make a warrior tribal deck but I can't decide who I want as my commander. I was thinking either Zurgo, Alesha, or Kresh. What do you guys think?

>>48236582
Are you shitting me? What kind of shit decks are in your playgroup that the priority is to hate out fucking Lorthos? Do octopi trigger you? That's the only fucking reason I could possible fathom. You would probably go after anybody else with blue in their color identity before monoblue fucking Lorthos.

>>48236779

We are all masterbating on the table, it's a game, we play for pleasure

>>48233679
Foils are standard card sized and can be made to be comparable to actual magic card thickness. Its better than printer paper on a land and costs about the same for much higher quality proxy.

>>48236781
Probably Alesha since a creature based strategy benefits from her even if she doesn't explicitly support warriors. Zurgo is not good for a creature deck and kresh has a narrower build around in the sense there's less overlap between small warriors and warriors that care about dying

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>>48236779
But what if this is my commander and I want to have fun?

>>48236779
Most good commander decks feature a combo wincon, and that includes Craterhoof

>>48236813
Seems good. Her, and a few others arent all just degenerate shit. But then you have teferi, menarche, arcum, ventilation clique, arcanus or the worst of them all, azami.
I run notion theif and will tutor it immediately and keep it on the board. Those decks can't deal will with disruption to card draw

>>48236824
Difference between one combo like a tooth and nail into xenagos + avenger vs brine elemental combo

>>48236809
Doesn't mean its not anymore stupid and lazy.

>>48236862
What?

>>48236886
One's immediate death but the tooth and nail is flexible enough you can just play it for other fun stuff or a combo that prevents players from doing anything until an actual game ending combo takes over

>>48236899
Seems like splitting hairs to me. There shouldn't be some arbitrary distinction between hay combos are ok and which ones aren't.

>>48236848

>Wahh this shit is degenerate
>I can beat it easily though with this one card they "can't deal with"

Not only do you contradict yourself, you're wrong on both accounts, it's the triple crown of retarded posts

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Is the OG and New Sigarda the only one that prevents sacking on your board state?

>>48236956

New sigarda doesn't prevent sacrifice, so not sure what you're asking exactly

If you're asking if there's another card that does what original sigarda does regarding sacrifice, yes Tajuru preserver will protect you from sacrifice, it trades hexproof, flying and greater p/t for cheaper mana cost and elf creature type

Tajuru preserver is a fine card but when you're trying to protect your board from sacrifice effects, you're usually trying to build some kind of airtight board state and sigarda's hexproof is indispensable there

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>>48236980
Oh, I was asking some sac protection for my monowhite Avacyn deck.

Aside from exile boardwipes, it seems to be the only other threat my deck will have.

>>48235143
Your only EDH deck is Scion Hermit Druid or Karador Boonweaver?

Please post your Imperial Seal.

>>48237041
Apparently Sisay is T1. I was surprised too.

>>48237010

While it doesn't stop your board from being sacrificed in many cases (all is dust is still gonna be a problem), Angel of jubilation is generally an auto include in mono white and can stop a lot of grave pact dictate of Erebos strategies from working on you

exile board wipes are just one of many ways of dealing with an avacyn board

Bounce board wipes and -X/-X board wipes are more common (pretty much everywhere) and do the job as well

More effective than avacyn's indestructible (and also complementary to it) is mass flicker such as ghostway and eerie interlude, if your theme for the deck is to go all in on the "you can't kill my shit" plan, you need both

>>48237073

I love my sisay deck but sisay is pretty much tier 2 unless your deck is really elfball combo with a light splash of white and legendaries

>>48237101
I was told that the Elesh Norn+Kamahl/Living Plane Sisay is Tier 1. Regardless of whether that's true, I'm still somewhat the archenemy, at least in the newer of my two playgroups.

>>48237123

Where did you read that it's tier 1?

Serious question not a rhetorical one, I'm just curious, elesh norn + living plane is a fine combo but the deck is still not on the same level as monoblue/Ux control-combo, storm, Animar, elfball, stax

Also as a fellow sisay player I understand the archenemy thing, sisay decks usually play a lot of splashy legendaries that draw a lot of attention and you end up having a ridiculous board state a lot even in games you lose

>>48237073
That isn't even remotely true in any of the multiple commander formats.

Can't decide...do I go with Niv-Mizzet and Wizards deck? Or should I try this stupid idea I have for Krenko and Storm cards?

>>48237194

I don't really like either of those ideas desu

Just follow your heart

>>48237123
Tier 1 involves decks that look like singleton legacy with a 13 card tutor package and turn 3 consistent wins.

Sisay is none of those things.

>>48237169
>>48237172
>>48237250
I was told by some people in my new playgroup. I'm more inclined to agree with you that she isn't, but they think she is, so I'm the archenemy an annoying amount of the time.

>>48237271

What are some commanders the rest of your playgroup plays?

Probably a bunch of hypocrites with similar tier 2 commanders

>>48237271
Just play real tier 2 decks like Arcum, Purphoros, or Prossh and kick their shit in instead of the crap combo you currently play to give them a real idea of tiers.

>>48237295
>>48237301
I want to play something fun and gimmicky.

>>48237242
>I don't really like either of those ideas desu

Hey, gotta work with what I have.

>>48237319
I don't think comboing into the same few cards every game is fun personally. Interactivity is fun, and by that metric something temur or jund would be fun.

>>48237324
>>48237194

You already described your ideas for Krenko as stupid, so please do that.

>>48237335
Any recommendations?

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Since you're all talking about combo, I'll just leave this here.

>>48238155

Combo is annoying as fuck in EDH tho, because it's so easy with all those tutors. Combo players cause games to end abruptly to the extent that everyone else is obliged to hate them out as quickly as possible. The combo players then bitch and kvetch about MUH HATERS and guilt the other players into going easy on them, only to pull yet another ridiculous fagatron combo win to end the next game just when it was getting interesting.

tl;dr- fuck combo

>>48238155
Me on the top left. Although I can only combo with Tooth and Claw, Primal Vigor plus something to gain from it like.

>>48238282
>Primal Vigor
Holy shit dude, if you can't afford Doubling Season that's fine but at least use Parallel Lives.

>>48238191

Sounds like you and the people you play with are cancerous autists, don't blame the cards

>>48238312
I want to put more of those into my deck, I just don't buy cards that often. Doesn't help that magic isn't my primary hobby.
But at least I'm growing more confident, that it won't be a temporary thing.

>>48229320
Pretty fun with Reins of Power

>>48236864
How is it stupid and lazy? Making a personalized commander for EDH seems pretty fun, especially if you already own said card either way. I'm also not sure how it's lazy compared to just ordering a card online.

>>48236779
lost to a venser player the other day that just slapped a bunch of swords on him and shivved everyone to death

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What are the best free sacrifice outlets in Sultai colors? Best if they're on Nantuko Husk-like creatures. I wanna recreate the GB Aristocrats experience as best as possible in Commander. Ones I already have are:
Viscera Seer, Nantuko Husk, Ashnod's Altar, Altar of Dementia, Grimgrin and that phyrexian dude who gives - 1/-1 for sacing a creature. Anyone have experience with pic related?

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How fun is precon daxos? I played meren and it was great junding out everyone so i was thinking about picking up another exp counter precon.

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>Playing Braids
>Opponent plays Mind Over Matter
>Steal it on my turn
>Win immediately because I have a god damn Mind Over matter
>Guy who cast MoM complains about how unfun it is to lose like that

Why do people slam absurd cards down, do nothing with them and wonder why they lose?

>>48227643
Recruiter is amazing in any deck that runs red. You aren't special for discovering him, you're special for being able to afford a piece of cardboard worth more than some cars.

>>48239416
The spirit of EDH!

The spirit of EDH is "whatever I do is acceptable, whatever you do is not!" So when you transfer a broken card from an opponent, to you, it becomes unacceptable to them, and acceptable to you.

The entire banlist is based on this philosophy, with sheldon's subjective experience forming the basis for acceptable things, and everything everyone else does forming the basis for unacceptable things.

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>>48236791
>fathom

>>48236916
>shouldn't be some arbitrary distinction between what combos are okay and which aren't

Boy did you ever come to the wrong format.

Just do what I do guys. Stop caring. Who cares if that other guy won? Who cares if he did it through some bonkers infinite combo? More than that, congratulate them when they win.

And be sure not to loudly express how much you don't care during the game. You're not fooling anyone.

>>48239666
>There shouldn't
Missed a word there, Satan

>>48238975
Carrion Feeder
Bloodthrone Vampire

>>48238975

Greater Good

>>48238975
Phyrexian Altar too

>>48239504
I'd like to know where you're buying cars for less than 300 dollars.

>>48236469
Torpor Orb too.

I am gonna make Squee. I've decided.

I wanted a general that can run all the exploding Devil token cards and Tuktuk seems dull. This way, my sac outlets serve two purposes, 1. getting Squee into my yard so I can start discarding him to looters and B. Letting me sac my dies trigger guys.

>>48240539
>all the exploding Devil token cards
All three of them?

>>48240578
Mmm. The vertical cycle, plus the two nontoken exploding Devils from the original block.

And stuff like Mudbutton Torchrunner.

>>48240645
Just seems like very little to build a deck around.

>>48238155
The inconsistent color code triggers me. I need to remake this fucking chart.

Also, proud midrange combo scrub here. It's true, there's no skill involved, I don't care.

>>48240659
Eh. There are a lot more exploding creatures than you probably think. It won't be super good, but the deck list is already pretty tight now. I'm gonna have to cut some of the chaff I included just for mechanical theme, but no biggy.

>>48236400
This is one of my favorite cards if that helps you decide at all.

>>48238155
This seems fair. I'm sadly the bottom two, but at least I acknowledge it.

I discovered what my issue with combo is. And it isn't combo itself. But no one seems to buy it.

>>48240801
My issue with combo is that I dislike games just instantly ending. To me, it feels like a combo is "haha, you didn't leave up counterspell mana so I immediately invalidate everything that has happened up to this point!". Though I lump any "win all at once" thing in there too, like Craterhoof.

I just like games to be won over time, rather than all at once.

>>48240845
Hey, you're like me. I admittedly don't say invalidated the rest of the game, though it really does feel like that.

Bad threat assessment in a playgroup makes those sorts of things even worse.

>>48240878
I don't fault other people for playing combo (except solitaire combo, and that's more because of the attitude that the majority of the users have), but I just deeply dislike it. Whether it's costing me a game OR winning it- It's not that I'm grumpy about losing, it just feels like we could simulate the same thing by arbitrarily flipping a coin 10 turns in with heads being "my combo resolves" and tails being "someone had the counter" to decide whether or not we keep playing.

>>48238155
I play Hanna, but I have no gamewinning combos. I have Solitary Confinement, which is nice with Hanna, and then I run Enchanted Evening + Aura Thief, Stasis + Chronatog (or Auratog with Hanna), and I stay vigilant the whole game. I run Ghave, too, which is definitely combo, but dunno if it's solitaire or Midrange or control.

>>48240954
In what universe is "Stealing every permanent on the board" not gamewinning?

say i proxied a bayou, but only used it in casual play. would that be acceptable? or should i wait till im retired to buy it for 130 ducks?

>>48240969
Because in my group many people play Stifles and other stuff. They can play Homeward Path the next turn.
Usually it's a win, but usually not instant win, unless people scoop.
Deoending on boardstates of course.

So my playgroup consists of 2 Narsets with as many extraturns and planeswalkers they can stack into the deck. Thraximundar with basically extra turns and loops to kill you in a turn. Oloro ultra hard control with like 0 wincons but infinite counters and hand removal. Prosh infinite combo. Edric good stuff. Zur being Zur.

How does my playgroup look like?

>>48240976
Who cares? If your group is okay with it, but personally I think not. You can get alternatives with sensible price, and you really don't NEED Bayou anyway. Proxying is awful and it has a high chance to ruin meta, if it's done only to run expensive cards which you're not proxying to test before you buy it.

>>48241056
Sounds pretty degenerate.

I think all the whining about combo or not obscures the main problem with this type of player. In a format called Elder Dragon Highlander, not being able to field Palladia-mors as your general because everyone is running degenerate Commander 2013 commanders is a sad thing.

>>48240054
Cool
>>48240067
Maybe suboptimal since most creatures I sacrifice are gonna be in the 0/1 to 2/2 range
>>48240077
wonderful card, will purchase once budget says yes

>>48240976
Your deck doesn't need a Bayou.

I have a bunch (4) Dual Lands, and none of my decks need them. 3 of them are in my worst, most casual deck. There's no reason not to run budget alternates other than the fact that you already have some dual lands.

>>48239369
Depends on your playgroup.
If your games go longer than 10 turns then its fine. You can get to cast enchantments and trigger your constellations and exp counters and get your spirits and generally have a good time.

But if your playgroup is constantly attempting to combo you out or drop a hasted unblockable narset with a time stretch ready the turn before with Long term plans on turn 4. Then you wont be able to interact enough to develop your comander.

>>48238975
Greater Good
Phyrexian Altar
Sadistic Hypnotist
Fallen Angel
Vampire Aristocrat
Phyrexian Ghoul
Bloodthrone Vampire
Blood Bairn
Bloodflow Connoisseur
Carrion Feeder
Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Cateran Overlord
Dimir House Guard

>>48240976
Buy a chinese knockoff and keep it sleeved and you'll be fine.

>play testing my Ayli against some local scrubs
>here people shit talking w/b for lack o card draw
>never have a problem
>in 5 games it pretty much worked like: cast ayli as soon as possible, durdle with walls and bullshit, then draw cards until I can tutor buried alive into victimize targeting elesh norn and new teysa
>the one game it didn't work like that I dropped 4 different wraths and various lifegain before tutoring Endrek Sahr and locking the board down with ayli
Sure, I never popped an Arcanis, but black card draw honestly isn't bad.

>>48241065
>>48241102
alright, cool. i was wondering because i want to replace jungle hollow eventually, and the ones i dont have are twilight mire, bayou, and temple of malady. personally i'd prefer to use no taplands, but where to go from there i dont know.

>>48241019
>They can play Homeward Path the next turn
And you still have all their lands, all their enchantments, artifacts, planeswalkers. Aura Thief combo is even more backbreaking than an Armageddon when well timed. I have trouble believing your group routinely comes back from that unless you're just a terrible player.

Also, "they can Stifle it" does not render a combo "not game winning", or any combo in the game doesn't count because I can counter part of it.

>>48240976
Personally I dislike anyone using a counterfeit of a card they don't actually own, and have no intent to ever own. That said, it comes down to your group. Some groups are fine with it, whereas I personally dislike it enough that I will just immediately scoop and refuse to play with people if they're "proxying" expensive cards they feel entitled to use.

>>48241341
Bayou is absolutely better than Jungle Hollow, and if you want to throw the money at it, it's going to benefit your deck. But the great thing about the duals is they're just HELP. Unless you're running some insane 5 color greedy deck, you can get by without any shocks or duals. They HELP, absolutely, but your deck isn't unplayable without them.

Also, Temple of M'lady is like 2 dollars dude.

>>48241324
Black is the best at drawing cards. People just get hung up on the life loss. I pitty those that have to struggle with synergy and value plays to generate card advantage. Why waste time with that nonsense when you can put 5 cards in your hand at instant speed. 10 life is beans when you have all the options.

>>48241460
I'd argue blue is the best. Black is pretty good because it has a few very good options that cost life, but overall blue outstrips it.

>>48241393
true its 2 but the scry doesnt help much, since viscera seer AND reaper of the wilds are in the deck and proc more often. not like i have the tech to make a proxy, but just seeing jungle hollow and golgari guildgate in the deck make me cringe.

>>48241540
I'd at least sub it over Hollow or Guildgate. The scry isn't a BIG deal, but if you're having an ETB tapped land, scry 1 is better than gain 1.

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>>48227297
Just give me one reason why people don't use this with a 40 life pool.

>>48241609
Mostly the fact that you have to have 8 mana to ensure you don't get blown out. I've seen people play it in non-lifegain decks and pay "just" 10 life into it on turn 4 and it gets popped by a Disenchant or an Acidic Slime before they can use it.

Of course, it's absolutely disgusting in a Trostani deck.

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>>48230360
>i've been looking at alesha
seriously? the tranny?

>>48241641
Alesha's actually pretty nifty.

>>48230360
>>48231700
and tell me one reason not to use Kaalia instead

>>48241460
New and casual players heavily overvalue the importance of life. They see Phyrexian Arena or Read the Bones or Necropotence and think "this costs me life, which makes me closer to losing, so it must be bad".

>>48239416
>>Guy who cast MoM complains about how unfun it is to lose like that
how can he complain about his own card?

>>48241666
I'll give you several.

1) You can get an Alesha for less than 50 cents, whereas Kaalia will run you 40 dollars just for your Commander.

2) Kaalia was HEAVILY overplayed when her deck was new, and still carries a stigma of "wow look at this newbie moron" from seasoned assholes, and "that deck is FUCKING BULLSHIT" from new players.

3) Kaalia's "nurr angels demons dragons" theme is pretty set in stone and doesn't give you a lot of wiggle room for building the deck how YOU want, whereas Alesha's low CMC both gives you a lot more flexibility AND lets you play a metric fuckton of small dudes, which is fairly novel in EDH.