/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Demons > alle

Is the Mega down for anyone else?

Alright, since someone in the last thread suggested I bring it up again:

How does Kindred society function? The idea of a vampire government seems to be a default assumption, but without a state with control of property and taxation I don't see how that would work. Especially with Vampire population being necessarily low, I don't know how Kindred society supports anything more than a Sheriff.

>>48125970
Nah I was just using it

>>48125985
I've always just assumed it's a "you follow the rules unless you want to be killed by something in orders of magnitude stronger than you" sort of a government.

>>48125714
>So all of their Hells were about going completely unnoticed? Nobody played a Saboteur? An Integrator? What were their Aspirations?
No, no Integrators, none of the players liked that idea.
Hells were a kind of hazy idea back when we played, it was before I had gotten the Storyteller's guide and had any idea what it meant.
And generally, their Aspirations were based on blending in and create normal lives. Which was boring as hell. Whenever something happened, they took Aspirations based on getting hold of it, but that's really all.

>>48125692
>What potential targets do they know about?
As of yet, it's still in the planning stages. I need to know what I am to avoid.

Post unpopular WoD/CofD opinions.

I hate mage with a passion and think cWoD Vampires were better.

>>48125998
>I've always just assumed it's a "you follow the rules unless you want to be killed by something in orders of magnitude stronger than you" sort of a government.
That doesn't take anything more than a single Sheriff/Judge/Reeve/Whatever and some loyal thugs. Instead the setting talks about politicking for position even though the position provides no real de jure authority or reward.

>>48126009
>As of yet, it's still in the planning stages. I need to know what I am to avoid.
I don't really understand. If they don't have any targets they could be pursuing, then of course they're not doing anything. It's very hard to do stuff in a vacuum unless their GM is an expert of improvisation, so don't blame them for it.

>>48126022
Considering the general love for Masquerade, I don't think saying you liked it is an unpopular opinion.

>>48126057
A shitty one though.

>>48126033
Oh now that you mention it, that's true. In that case i'd attribute it to the eternal Jyhad and easy hunting grounds for good blood. Perhaps it's just a status symbol, I'm no expert at the whole WoD thing anyway.

>>48126052
>I don't really understand. If they don't have any targets they could be pursuing, then of course they're not doing anything. It's very hard to do stuff in a vacuum unless their GM is an expert of improvisation, so don't blame them for it.

Last time, whenever they found something that could shatter their normalcy, they took care of it as fast as possible, then went back to their lives.
They never kept their eyes open for problems, but only reacted to things when they intruded.

>>48126090
>whenever they found something that could shatter their normalcy, they took care of it as fast as possible
>They never kept their eyes open for problems
I feel like this contradicts itself. So did they or did they not keep their eyes open for problems?

Is there a specific (not a vague and generalized one, mind you) goal they could be pursuing at any given moment? A specific piece of Infrastructure they could break? An Angel they could destroy? An anomaly they could investigate?

>>48126057
Really? Last I checked people were getting into flame wars over it.

>>48126079
Exhibit A.

>>48125985
All things considered, the idea of a government is to have a lawful way of running things, and even if there's only very few members in the community, since they're vampires the resources these members have can be frightening.

In the end, kindred of shared locations will gather to handle disputes, or to address threats to the community. Rules and goals are likely to be created to solve on or another problem, and the political game is all about making sure these favor you.

>>48126115
It's sounding like the players were very reactive, not proactive. Whenever something came up directly in their lives that they couldn't ignore it got dealt with. Once that was gone anything that might be hiding in the back alley was ignored until they had to go down that alley. They weren't searching for things to do, they were searching for ways to not doing anything out of the ordinary.

>>48126122
It's such a popular opinion, that it's suffering from backlash nowadays. Basically the two sides have polarized, but your dislike is far from being unpopular or unsupported by the community.

Vampire the Masquerade was around for a bunch, and it has a lot of really hardcore fans that didn't enjoy or appreciate the transition. They also tended to be very vocal about this.

>>48126033
A lot of the politicking happens because there's essentially nothing else to do. As you while away the long years, you need to keep occupied. Eventually, the only thing that can occupy you is fucking around with other immortals. It's hollow, empty, and all they have.

Neonates join in because the structure is already there and they don't realize there's nothing to win. It's just about the pursuit. Another form of predation.

>>48126226
Yeah exactly.

>>48126115
They only had the goal "stay safe", they didn't look for infrastructure. They didn't investigate anomalies. They only fought angels when they came across them in normal life, or whenever other Unchained they knew called for backup.

>>48126407
Also, the very important part: Every vampire will one day either be dead or a threat. One or the other. The politicking delays the threat part.

>>48126473
You don't generally wander the streets looking for infrastructure and anomalies. Make sure they have enough to go on, and if they still don't do it, then that's that. If they're not being proactive, try to take the initiative yourself. Either way what's important is that they're having fun.

Reposting from last thread, curious to see if I get any more responses:

So in the not so distant future I will have a Vampire game for some newbies. I plan to actually have them start as revenants with a similar setup to the old VtR 1e demo (Dance de la Morte, I believe), so essentially have them wake up as vampires/revenants and not knowing what to do until they are picked up by the local Kindred society.

I am considering setting it in Miami, but I am not sure what the local politics should look like. I am either considering a pretty wild Cronie country with other covenants only tolerated or a post-covenant-war situation in which a Dragon Prince is the peacekeeper and "least hated candidate" since the Order was mostly neutral in the fighting.

What does /tg/ think?

>>48126473
Sounds like you need to have a talk about how you want the chronicle to go. If it's frustrating you, or you're not having fun because they won't leave their character's houses unless someone breaks down the door talk to them about expectations. As someone about to run my own game, I'm glad you came here with this problem just so I remember to have the conversation myself.

>>48126022
Mage is ass. Not so much the game, as the people who play it. The kind of players that Mage was designed for aren't the kind of players who want to play Mage. Thus it always devolves into wankery.

For mortals, Integrity should be abolished and Breaking Points should be rolled into Willpower. (Still represents the same general thing, but ties them into a single resource/mechanic)

Blood bonds should be a Majesty devotion, not an out-of-the-box ability.

Tzimisce and Malkavians are cool. In theory.

Hunters need a power stat.

>>48126022

All of my opinions are incendiary, but "Dark Ages is a better and more coherent game than base Masquerade" is a pretty spicy one.

>>48126675
The faction that brings them into undead society proper should be the one with the least political power at the time, and should appeal to the PCs. They're more likely to side with that group, and there's a lot more room for plot when you start low on the social totem pole. Bringing down the opposition and all that.

>>48126022
People that favor Mage, and like playing Tremeres in VtM are usually elitist assholes who have a delusionally large ego.

So thinking about the lack of real basis for Vampire authority for earlier, what if 'the state' manages land, feeding rights and the masquerade as well as internal policing? The Primogen are replaced by a council of the Viscounts who each control a portion of the city, the Prince who creates the laws and adjudicates issues the Kindred have with each other, the Sheriff who helps maintain the Masquerade and punishes lawbreakers and the Chancellor of the Blood who manages hunting territory, management of blood banks et cetera.

My only issues here are a) how do you create laws managing feeding rights and b) how do you police those laws? In New York City for example, if most of the ~160 vampires decide to feed around the clubs in downtown Manhattan how do you decide who should feed elsewhere? How do you keep track of who is feeding where? How do you stop them from feeding where they like?

>>48128235
>The kind of players that Mage was designed for aren't the kind of players who want to play Mage.
Nerds? I'm pretty sure nerds are who Mage was designed for.
>Integrity should be abolished and Breaking Points should be rolled into Willpower.
What does this even mean? You lose Willpower when you fail a Breaking Point? Having it be a separate thing is much more conducive to theme. That's more of a Hack for games where you want characters to lose the will to live, and works with Integrity-as-only-Sanity.
>Blood bonds should be a Majesty devotion, not an out-of-the-box ability.
But blood-as-drug is one of the inherent themes of Vampire.
>Tzimisce and Malkavians are cool. In theory.
In practice they're dumb, and the writers seem to encourage that.
>Hunters need a power stat.
I disagree. Hunter is just Mortal+. Why would they need a power stat? At that point they're just oWoD Hunters. I could see Tier 3 Hunters having a generic power stat, with Endowments purchased like real powers, and Conspiracies creation rules that amount to "build your own super", but that's about it.

>>48128464
Vampire society works the same way all feudal societies work. One person (or group) is physically and/or socially powerful and has everyone else willing or forced to work for them. They then force or encourage others to work for them, on down the line. I don't understand why people act like Vampire society can't work period. I mean, shit, it's not really that different from the PTA or something.

>>48128593
>Vampire society works the same way all feudal societies work. One person (or group) is physically and/or socially powerful and has everyone else willing or forced to work for them. They then force or encourage others to work for them, on down the line. I don't understand why people act like Vampire society can't work period. I mean, shit, it's not really that different from the PTA or something.
Could you at least read an entire line?

>>48128593
>I could see Tier 3 Hunters having a generic power stat, with Endowments purchased like real powers, and Conspiracies creation rules that amount to "build your own super", but that's about it.

That's a really bitching idea, actually...

>how do you create laws managing feeding rights
Decide what you can get everyone to agree to (preferably that benefits you the most) and say that's the law. That's how every law works. Say something is the law, punish those who don't agree.
>how do you police those laws?
Punish anyone who breaks them. How you do that is up to you. Could be just cutting off a hand or something, could be banishment, could be Final Death. Could be a slap on the wrist or fines or being blood bound.
>In New York City for example, if most of the ~160 vampires decide to feed around the clubs in downtown Manhattan how do you decide who should feed elsewhere?
You just make it illegal and punish anyone who breaks the law.
>How do you keep track of who is feeding where?
Divvy up feeding rights. This also allows you to carve out and distribute territory based on preference or politics. No one wants to feed on the winos.
>How do you stop them from feeding where they like?
By wielding your Sovereign Power against them, same as any other ruling body.

If you mean things like "how do you know if someone has broken the law?" well, shit, you just found the reason Britain is filled with cameras. Pretend instead of humans you've got orchards. How do you make and act on a law that no one can pick peaches from a specific orchard without permission? Sure, manpower is hard to come by, so you can't just constantly patrol every inch. There are some Disciplines and Devotions that can make it easier, but you can't watch everyone all the time. And that's what tempts Vamps into trying to break the rules and poach.

>>48128655
I was specifically replying to
>the lack of real basis for Vampire authority for earlier
Not necessarily his specific Domain set up.

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>>48128658
I'm a big fan of build-your-own stuff, provided it's got good rules. Hunter core was good advice, but kind of terrible implementation. Mortal Remains continued the weird "Dread Powers must be ranked 1 to 5" thing, but with the Horror creation rules in CofD core you've really got a good baseline for stuff.

I still want to do my Suicide Squad Hunter game. Fuck, maybe I should just run that, since it seems to be the only one I can get a decent number of people interested in. Better than everyone (myself included) dragging ass on Mage.

>>48128464
>how do you create laws managing feeding rights
Those that already possess power shape the laws so that it favors them, while still keeping the less powerful satisfied enough that they won't rebel.
>how do you police those laws?
Sherrif, and of course peer pressure. Even if there's only one official agent you make it so that breaking the rules makes you a pariah, and a target for everyone else.

On actually enforcing and managing this, your best bet would be following real world methods. Occasional busts to reinforce the fear of capture, and making examples out of the perpetrators.

>>48126033
Position matters in a tangible sense (because it lets you have control over some kind of institution which has actual power) and also in the more emotional sense, as vampires are especially petty creatures driven to seek power over one another.

You may say there's no need for a state and thus a state will not exist, but just like in real life lolbercucks like yourself have to answer to the men with the guns, or in this case, the men with the level 5 Discipline powers and army of vampiric children at their side (and the men with the guns).

If nothing else, the Elders who want control over the rest of the vampires are going to try to get that control, and in the absence of something like Anarchs (or sort of Sabbat), they will have it.

>>48126022
I really like Mage the Ascension and I really hate Awakening. In fact, I don't like a single one of the CofD game lines.

>>48128996
I'm not libertarian, dude. I was just trying to work out how vampire governance works with a low population and no taxes.

>>48129043
Government doesn't require either a large population or the collection of taxes, but vampiric societies aren't guaranteed to not have those things in any case. Camarilla vamps are part of an international hierarchy, as are Sabbat, and together they cover the vast majority of vampires on the planet.

But this is all an unnecessary diversion, the more important thing to realize is that vampires have government and politics for exactly that same reasons we have them - to decide who has power and who gets what.

>>48128710
>Decide what you can get everyone to agree to (preferably that benefits you the most) and say that's the law. That's how every law works. Say something is the law, punish those who don't agree.
>>48128994
>Those that already possess power shape the laws so that it favors them, while still keeping the less powerful satisfied enough that they won't rebel.
I meant specifically. I have no idea how I, out of character, manage feeding rights for that many individuals.

Thanks for the responses though, they were very helpful.

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>>48129043
Who said there's no taxes? Usually tax is in the form of services.
>>48129111
>Camarilla vamps are part of an international hierarchy, as are Sabbat
I thought he was talking about Requiem.

>>48129174
That's not something we can help you with, really. At least not without knowing more. Essentially you divide the city up and say who gets where based on how much the Prince likes them (or how much the Prince needs them to be happy).

Requiem Chronicler's Guide actually has a whole chapter devoted to Domains and Domain based play. Dave used it when coming up with this advice.

So would a Power Rangers-style Morphing Grid be Prime+Space+Forces? That's Prime for the suits, gear and zords/megazords, Space for the sympathy and Forces for the explosion in the background.

>>48129332
Platonic Forms are obviously magical by Word of DAve, using them in public would make them explode with dissonance.

>>48128996
Shit mate, that's some hardcore projecting you've got going on there.

>>48129174
Well, that depends on what you want to do, but if I had to come up with one, how about a tier system?
Older vamps get the best areas, and younger people are more restricted.

Alternatively you could go clan based, or administrator based. Something like different turfs being given to influential people who then both police them and allow (or don't) others to use their areas for feeding.

>>48129296
>I thought he was talking about Requiem.
Didn't see anything about that, but my points are not any less accurate.

>>48129357
Well shit...Ah well, maybe they only use Prime for the creation of stonking great robots and use Matter and Forces for everything else.

Why do I get the feeling that this Is going to get rather complicated?

>>48129296
>>48129443
Thanks again for the help guys, I'm going to start hammering out the details now.

>>48129546
Matter+Prime will make your Prime less obvious. Also, transforming is going to be obvious no matter what.

>>48129546
Houserule suggestion - Since adding effects from the Practices of the level above takes Reach (eg. Pattering Platonic Forms to be 'Lasting') and adding equal Practices is a dice penalty (eg. Perfecting PFs to increase durability or Mana capacity), taking a dice penalty with better value lets you add lesser Practices to a spell.

So you could add Veiling to make your PFs not obviously magical. And since equal level Practices go -2/+1, make this -2/+2.

So a -2 dice pool penalty when casting Platonic Form means you get a +2 on Sleeper's roll to notice the magic?

>>48125664
Demons actively try to destroy God machine infrastructure. Its a spy game. Hiding is important, but not as important as the mission.

>>48129641
>Since adding effects from the Practices of the level above takes Reach (eg. Pattering Platonic Forms to be 'Lasting') and adding equal Practices is a dice penalty (eg. Perfecting PFs to increase durability or Mana capacity
What?
I don't understand anything you just said and see no reason it would work the way you think it would.

>>48129852
Since the Practices are fixed, rather than having exceptions like in 1e, if you want to cast a spell but add in effects outside it's main Practice you either need to Reach (literally Reaching ahead to get a power the current arcarnum dots don't allow) or a dice penalty as you add in effects you can already use, which make the imago more complex.

My suggestion was casting Platonic Form as Weaving/Veiling, rather than just Weaving would allow you to create Tass that wasn't overtly magical, since you already learned how to conceal Prime effects at 2 dots in the Arcarnum.

My other suggestion was that since increasing durability or mana capacity (essentially casting it as Weaving/Perfecting) in your PF required you to take a -2 dicepool penalty/1 increase, then casting it with a lower added Practice (Weaving/Veiling) should be more efficient, so -2 dicepool penalty/2 increase instead.

>>48130132
>a dice penalty as you add in effects you can already use, which make the imago more complex.
I'm not sure where you get this.

>>48130271
>I'm not sure where you get this.

>Perfecting spells are the opposite of Fraying spells in many ways: they bolster, strengthen, and improve rather than weakening and eroding.

Common sense says that increasing a PF's durability or mana storage capacity is a Perfecting effect. And these give a -2 dice penalty for each one increase.

So applying equal practices to spells of the same level (Weaving/Perfecting, maybe Knowing/Compelling or Ruling/Shielding, etc.) would presumably follow the same pattern

>>48130343
Adding a second Practice entirely would be a Combined Spell.

>>48130393
Whatever, clearly I'm accidentally typing in French or something. Because I'm obviously not making sense to you.

>>48130442
No, you're making sense, I'm just disagreeing with your conclusions.
>The Arcanum descriptions explain discrete spells and their effects. Sometimes, a mage wants more than one of these spell effects to take place in a single casting. The result is called a combined spell. The main advantage of a combined spell is that it counts as a single spell toward the total spells a mage can have active, and all its effects activate simultaneously.
Veiling a Perfecting spell would be two discrete effects.

Why do Changelings get so little love?

>>48131053
I assume you are talking about Dreaming, 'cause Lost gets tons of love.

>>48131053
Have you ever tried to date someone with PTSD? It can get pretty rough.

>>48129009
>>48126022
Same here. I just can't force myself to like Awakening's lore. Its so generic gnostic shit. Ascension had that cool po-mo consensual reality thing going. Like I've tried reading Awakening's core book like five times, trying to find something to draw me, but I always leave the book thinking "Man, this really sucks".

Then I go read Genius and I'm like "Holy shit take all of my money."

>>48131132
Admittedly I rarely see Lost being discussed, but you make a good point. Nobody ever talks about Dreaming.

>>48131308
>I rarely see Lost being discussed

>>>/tv/

>>48131308
The reason we are quiet about Lost is that there is very little to argue about.
I AM surprised there isn't more talk about the playtest docs, but I don't think that is contentious enough to be argued about.

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>>48131053
>>48131132
>>48131308
>>48131339
Lost hasn't really gotten much love as of late because of two major reasons:

The first is that the original game was out for a while. It's been long enough that we all realize that the concept is great, but the game doesn't really facilitate much in the way of interesting plots, especially with the overwhelming focus on "the True Fae will snatch you away again at any moment" and the fact that characters end up focused on wallowing in their misery. Add on to that the fact that much like most of 1e, the mechanics are garbage and didn't get thought through well enough and there's enough reason that no one talks about it often.

The second is that info on the 2e has stalled and a lot of anons didn't really like what they heard, partly because they misunderstood the things that were being done to fix the "wallowing in misery" parts of the game as well as the build-your-own city aspects (here's a sample from when I almost ran it, file related). Maybe I should try that again. People seemed interested in that more than Mage.

For Dreaming? It was a clusterfuck mess with a decent core concept ruined by even shittier mechanics than 1e Lost, as well as disjointed and schizophrenic tone setting. Is it happy and upbeat? Is it dark and depressing, with every bit of happiness and adventure just an ephemeral sandbar that will be swept away as the tide of age overtakes it? Is Chimerical death like having your essence scoured away and something to give you nightmares, or is it just naptime?

>>48131272
Have you tried 2e? Also, I just can't understand that, because Ascension is so dumb to me. Both the Ascension War and consensual reality. All the core parts of the setting are dumb.

>>48131327
Changeling: The Lost, you fucking idiot.

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>>48131327
funny guy

>>48131356
See the reasons I like it are probably the reasons you hate it. The concepts behind Mage only semi-fit into the rest of the World/Chronicles of Darkness, but they are awesome considered by themselves.

From that simple concept of consensual reality [which works perfectly find as long as you suspend disbelief and don't stare too long into the abyss], they derive an explanation for why magic doesn't work well in front of normies [Paradox], and paves the way for literally anything to happen, in a universe held together purely by group opinion.

Basically I like the game because

1. The underlying philosophical concepts I find fun and elegant.

2. I love all the factions. Akashics? Sons of Ether? Order of Hermes? Pretty much every faction in Ascension is immediately comprehensible, ties into real world occultism, and is cool as fuck. Meanwhile the factions of Mage the Awakening, while not terrible, are totally separate from real life magic, and don't really stick out that much to me. Also old Mage had much better villains. Technocracy was sympathetic, Seers of the Throne are just "Meh, they're evil tyrants, kill them all"

3. Its the ultimate kitchen-sink wankery, juxtaposed with boring real life. You can have people in raygun gothic rocketships battle state of the art spacecruisers, you can have old kung fu guys battling cyborgs, you can have Doctor Strange take on the men in black and their 'alien' allies. And all of this just, glitters in the background of boring 9-5 reality.

Its not overly serious [although it can be, if you focus on the more intellectual side of things], but its fun as all hell. Awakening I don't think is a terrible game. I mean if I played it I'd probably have fun. But it doesn't just instantly capture my imagination like everything about Ascension does.

>>48131382
>seriousdanbackslide
What?

>>48131476
Check out "The Dover Boys" on youtube. It helped define the way Warner Bros. did cartoons.

>>48131356
>Changeling: The Lost, you fucking idiot.

Do ...do I explain the joke?

>>48131475
>real life magic
Wat.

>>48131673
Real world occultic systems, I'm not implying magic really works, I'm just saying Ascension bases itself on how people thought it worked. You have Taoist alchemist, and Hermetics performing kaballah, and faith healers and Hindu holy men opening their chakras. Etc.

Thats one of the main things I like about Ascension. It basically asks you "What if all this bullshit really worked, and there was a reason it usually looked like it didnt?"

>>48131475
>Seers of the Throne
>villains
Awakening isn't really designed for villains or pulp adventure, which sounds like what you're looking for in a game.

>>48131729
Yeah. Whereas Awakening asks the question: "What if the gnostic, theosophic and platonic ideas were right?"

This also has the huge-ass benefit of having an actually coherent setting.

>>48131810
>an actually coherent setting.
There's nothing incoherent about Ascension. Sorry that you're rustled about people liking different things.

>>48131801
Seers of the Throne are definitely villains. And they're boring ones.
>>48131810
And it does so by having factions that are literally boring as all hell. Wow, Atlantis! Its like I'm really watching Spirit Science! Tell me more about the fangs of the Dragon!

>>48131880
>And it does so by having factions that are literally boring as all hell. Wow, Atlantis! Its like I'm really watching Spirit Science! Tell me more about the fangs of the Dragon!

So the options are boring vs. moronic?

>>48131922
>The Order of Hermes is moronic
>The Akashic Brotherhood is moronic
>The Sons of Ether are moronic
>The Verbena are moronic
>The Technocracy is moronic

How about no.

>>48131944
Yeah. Ok. The Order of Hermes is fine.

>>48131475
I don't like things where I have to avoid thinking about them to hard, especially in a game like Mage, that seems to want me to think.
You're right, though, I hate everything you like about it.
Also, the Seers aren't really villains in the traditional sense. I also don't feel the oWoD stuff really does that great a job at reflecting real life magical traditions. They're all pastiches. At least Awakening treats those things as symbolic of real power. Ascension just gives you Theme Park versions of other cultures.

>>48131673
Cultural traditions on how things would or should work. Personally, I think Ascension does that worse. 2e especially encourages you to be a traditionalist wizard and rewards you for indulging in the trappings (albeit not as much as it could or should, but I'm houseruling yantras anyway).

>>48131880
>>48131841
Ascension is built on a foundation of sand in the form of Consensual Reality. None of the traditions other than Technocracy should work by that logic, and even the Technocracy should work differently. More than that, the Ascension War and the Traditions being against each other is built on a bullshit premise, and ultimately Gnosticism would make that setting better.

The Seers are antagonists, yes, but they're not the kind of antagonists you seem to think they're meant to be. The factions are also meant to be more broad. Yes, "broad" can come off as bland, but it also means that you're not shoehorned into specific character types. Oh, and they're also ideological differences, not completely different beliefs and playstyles. They're political factions. Not entirely different races or cultures warring with each other, the way that Ascension has it.

You're also giving a bit too much stock into "Atlantis".

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Would Eric from Zero Time Dilemma be good inspiration for a Hunter?
>why is everyone talking about time travel and teleporting?
>they'd better stop bullshitting me, I have a shotgun and I want revenge

>>48131801
>Awakening isn't really designed for villains or pulp adventure

You're a crazy person. The Seers are ostensibly villains while Left-Hand Path is entirely about villains.

Secrets of the Ruined Temple was an entire book of pulp Awakening. The Mysterium is an entire faction of "action archaeologists."

Damn, post got eaten.

>>48131944
Not him, but yes. All of the oWoD "supernatural race" options are generally pretty bad. By and large even the better options shoehorn your character into a rather narrow box.

Not only do I feel like you're putting too much stock into the Atlantis Myth, I feel like you're misunderstanding how the factions work. In oWoD, they were all at war with each other, with the "good" factions essentially in a stalemate and teaming up to fight the evil Technocracy (because technology is evil in the 90s). Each Tradition was both "magical race" and political faction. All the magical races inherently hate or dislike each other, because... well, that's not really given any adequate reason, to be honest. "They must be liars" is the closest I've seen to a reasonable answer, but even then the fact that other people can do their magical reality warping differently than you shouldn't be a problem; your magic still works. The only thing close to a real fight is in who's Tradition is dominant, but that's not really something most people are going to care about.

In Awakening on the other hand, your "magical race" is your Path, and that's very different from your sociopolitical faction, which is the Orders. Other than being a player faction, the Orders are meant to serve a very different purpose than the Traditions. At best the Orders are all about how you view Magic, but that's not a static, uncompromising, and unchanging thing. The Adamantine Arrow--Claws of the Dragon--are a group that see Magic as something that inherently comes from struggle and serves as the militant arm of the Diamond (often whether the rest of the Diamond wants it or not). That doesn't stop an Arrow from changing their beliefs and joining the Free Council--the Pentacle group that believes Magic is created not by the Supernal but by the cultural and social structures of humanity--or even keeping their original beliefs and believing more in their new beliefs.

I'm getting started on Mage the Awakening 2. Is it just me or Rotes/Mudras are broken as fuck? Why would anyone use freeform casting instead of spamming rotes all day?

>>48128278
But you're right.

>>48131944
You forgot the Euthanatos.

>>48133470

Because you only know a tiny handful of rotes compared to the vast swathe of other magic available to you, and by extension your enemies. That Psychic Domination rote doesn't do shit for you when your problem is that all the air has been spontaneously transmuted into pain.

Sure, in an ideal world, you wouldn't cast outside your rotes, but in an ideal world you wouldn't need magic at all because you wouldn't have any problems.

>>48128278
Sorcerer's Crusade is also better than Mage. Prove me wrong.

>>48125959
Dämonen > Alle, bitte.

On Ascension I wonder why you don't hear about rogue Technocracy Members.

I mean sure you have the Sons of Ether but they're too out there. Where are the Technocracy members who enjoy radically powerful technology that aligns with consensus, but feel that the current group is too oppressive?

>>48131272
So you honest to your mom prefer Dreaming to Lost?

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>>48131272
The politics didn't intrigue me until my friend said that its about each faction trying to push their own definition on what "Balance" is (aside from Adamantium Arrow and Mysterium who would rather just let everyone else play politics). The book doesn't explicitly say or focus on it though, so it mostly gets interesting if a ST touches on it.

Ascension is still miles better for me. And I say this as an avid CofD lover who only learned about oWoD later.

>>48133580
First, you do hear about them. They are mentioned in like every book in the entire line. But as to why they're not a major force, it's because the Technocracy is really good at what it does. Technocratic agents are heavily indoctrinated and monitored like 24/7 by supervisors.

Of course if you're just talking about generic technomancers, well there's the Virtual Adepts, Disparates, and Orphans for that.

What kind of animal is your fursona, /cofdg/?

Mine is a cow.

>>48131272

geckopirateship go and stay go

>>48131729
>it's not implying magic really works
Someone fell for the Technocracy meme.

>>48133684
>not fapping to monster on human
>not self-inserting as the human

>>48133729
>involving humans at all

>>48133470
Once you get 5 in your relevant Arcana rotes become practically useless.

>>48133792
Eh. No. It somewhat lessens, but the impressive boost in dice pools the Mudra represents is valuable in itself.

2 STR
2 DEX
NO DOTS IN ANY OFFENSIVE SKILLS
NO FIGHTING STYLES
WHATS THE FASTEST WAY OF BEING GOOD IN COMBAT IN TERMS OF SPENDING EXP?

>>48133998
Go all dex, can't go wrong.

>>48133998
Drive or Craft (Explosives).

The best way to fight with no combat skills is to not actually get into a fight, just kill them before it starts.

>>48133998
Get firearms and that one merit that lets you shoot better. You'll be set for life.

>>48134023
Is there a 1e book that shows me what kinds of explosives I can make?

>>48134200
I think Armory would have the list of demo devices and such.

>>48133717

WoD General's just an OPP outpost at this rate, isn't it

What is it with this company and using unreadable font for all the introductions

Actually, quasi related to the conversation, do we have any idea HOW explosives are likely to work in 2e? I've been getting my Mage 2 party into more and more explosive situations and while noone has slipped up so far, I feel like the explosives rules may be a little interesting since their main feature in 1e was auto-damage, something which virtually all weapons now have.

Like, just extrapolating it myself I figure that they'll have:

- A component which is pure damage, soaked by general armour obviously, hits you no matter what you do though.
- A rolled component which can be reduced, even to zero, by defense vs. firearms, but this doesn't stop the other half hitting you.

With the first component being a function of the explosive and the second component being a function of the skill with which it was rigged.

>>48134400

It's fancy

>>48134379
Yeah. Only without names so we can say the stuff we would be banned for on the forums.
Also, pirated book sharing.

>>48132892
The seers are not villains, they work for the villains. Some are sycophants, others are reasonable, mostly they're as varied as any other group of people. Their goals are largely the same as the Pentacle, though vary in approach. Working against them as villains gets old as quickly as fighting the same "opposition" sports team.

>Secrets of the Ruined Temple was an entire book of pulp Awakening.
SotRT is a nod to Indiana Jones and hardly a thesis for the core game.

>The Mysterium is an entire faction of "action archaeologists."
There's a faction of action archeologists within the mysterium, but they're hardly the most prolific.

>>48133470
Because Rotes have a cost.
Because Rotes are inflexible.

Rotes are useful, but they're a knife, not a multitool.

>>48133531
>the air has been spontaneously transmuted into pain.
Fuck me, I choked laughing.

>>48133656
It's not about balance, and no one other than the Silver Ladder and Seers are pushing their views. It's not really a social manipulation game the way Vampire is. The Diamond are all on the same page and part of the same group, even if they butt heads. The Free Council butts heads with the Diamond, but by and large works with them instead of against them, even if they have radically different views. They're all aligned as the Pentacle against the Seers, but that's because the Seers have a belief structure that belies working together with the other groups unless there's some outside threat.

>>48133998
Resources 5

>>48134400
I like them all, even though Mage 1e is unreasonable.
I do also think that Cezanne is better than Requiem's original font.

So Requiem For Rome was largely about Rome proper. Forsaken By Rome is about the barbarians. The Cleopatran Mummy setting will obviously deal primarily with Aegyptus.

What/where would Roman settings for the other lines cover?

>>48135923
Mage would probably be set at the era of the Greco-Roman wars, when the Greeks were brought into the Empire. It's the era when the forebears of the Praetorian Ministry were formed, and when the Silver Ladder-to-be saw that they had a new chance of a global empire.

>>48135923
Not an expert but Lost would cover slaves pretty well imo.

>>48136030
Hades and Persephone is totally a story of Keeper and Changeling.

>>48136030

Surely the Lost would all be about the wild fringe of the Republic/Empire?

Brittania Lost could be awesome.

>>48136100
What do you think happened to the Iberian IX'th?

Yeah. That's right. Faeries.


Horrifying thought though, an entire legion, plus auxiliaries, all taken by the faeries. That'd be close to 10 000 men, and that's just the fighting force. Add to that all the camp followers and hangers on...

Now that we are talking Changeling, I'd like to ask for a piece of advice.

I've been talking with a few of the people of the perennial RPG group, and they love Lost... But... Just the faerie magic part. They want no part in the hiding and fearing the Keepers, they want to explore the hedge, do weird faerie magic, and stuff like that.

Does the system really have room for that, or is it too narrow?

>>48136129

Arc Dream is already doing that exact thing as a Reign supplement called The Ninth Legion, with Legio IX Hispana being pulled into Arcadia and struggling to tame it as Nova Roma.

I don't play Reign but that may well win me over on it when it comes out.

>captcha was a bunch of Roman columns

>>48136158

I'm not one to call badwrongfun, but cutting my favorite part of Changeling out hurts.

That said, you could certainly just change the nature of the Durance to something adversarial and disregard Clarity, but at that point you may as well just play Changeling: the Dreaming or Dark Ages: Fae.

>>48136090
Not really. For one thing, Persephone seems to be fine with Hades, and other than the kidnapping, Hades is the nicest husband in all of Greek myth (and I like the argument that it's Demeter propaganda that calls it a kidnapping).

>>48136030
No it doesn't. What, you think they go from bondage into bondage? Why would any supernatural keep being a slave? Changelings literally can't be bound. I mean, even then, slaves weren't the kind of chattel slavery that Americans practiced.

>>48136129
>>48136160
Isn't that the plot to that non-Dresden Jim Butcher novel?

>>48136196
The non-Dresden series is the Lost Legion + Pokemon. He wrote it on a bet.

>>48136196

Here's an idea: spin the Rape of the Sabines as a Durance, or as a Contract that allowed Rome to prosper.

It fits nearly as well as Romulus and Remus as a Werewolf thing.

>>48136160
Ah. It was IX'th Hispanian, not Iberian, my bad.

Honestly though, I think it'd be more interesting to see the fallout of hundreds of Changelings escaping over a few dozen years.

>>48136196
>Isn't that the plot to that non-Dresden Jim Butcher novel?
Novels, there's 6 of them.
And close. He took a bet that he couldn't write a book on a shitty premise. Butcher being Butcher he boasted that he could write a book on TWO shitty premises. These were "lost roman legions" and "pokemon".
Cue, the IXth Hispanic marched off into a thunderstorm, ended up in a different world, crowded with nature spirits, and stuff that wanted to kill them. The humans forged bonds with the spirits, and carved out a romanesque empire.
As far as the story goes, it is quite a lot "Roman ATLA vs. the Zerg, Werewolves, and decadent Roman nobility". I like them.

>>48136196
Keepers aren't universally black-and-white, clear-cut Buffalo Bill types. Some changelings can be quite content with their lives in Arcadia.

>>48136188
Yeah. I'm kind of in the same position as you here. They claim to love the dark parts of it, but what they say they want is basically magical adventure. They hate C:tD with a passion, despite none of them ever having played it.

But... Cutting out the dark parts seems to be the only way I'll ever get to play (ok, ST) Lost, so I have to try, I suppose.

>>48136347
Play up the Hedge's tendency to change itself and fuck up navigation, throw plenty of hedge beasts at them, and rework Keeper kidnappings as a thing that happens if/when you get lost in the Hedge.

>>48136347

Like I said, just make the Durance less overtly hostile and replace Clarity with something else.

But seriously, take a look at Dark Ages: Fae.

>>48136246
>>48136266
I know.
It was a rhetorical question.
I actually got into an argument once with someone who said it *wasn't* Pokemon.

I never did get far in the book. Getting interested in books is hard, and liking Dresden didn't get me through Codex Alara.

>>48136314
Those Changelings don't leave Arcadia.

>>48136347
>>48136158
Just what is their problem? I mean, is it "I don't want to hide from and fear the Gentry"? I mean, even without the Durance, that'd be a thing. The Gentry are spooky fucking monsters that kidnap children.
Really, just troll them by playing Dreaming with Lost's mechanics. Changelings are people who's souls were hidden in children and now they're awakened. But too bad you can't go to Arcadia and be a real faerie.

Or just try to spin it for them. It was a bad relationship and they're out of it, but they still sometimes look over their shoulder for their ex. They don't HAVE to spend their lives cowering in fear or anything.

Hell, test out 2e.

>>48136467
>ust what is their problem? I mean, is it "I don't want to hide from and fear the Gentry"? I mean, even without the Durance, that'd be a thing. The Gentry are spooky fucking monsters that kidnap children.
>Really, just troll them by playing Dreaming with Lost's mechanics. Changelings are people who's souls were hidden in children and now they're awakened. But too bad you can't go to Arcadia and be a real faerie.
>Or just try to spin it for them. It was a bad relationship and they're out of it, but they still sometimes look over their shoulder for their ex. They don't HAVE to spend their lives cowering in fear or anything.
>Hell, test out 2e.

Not sure really. They like the idea of the Durance, the being re-made as a magical being. All three have talked about character concepts that involved them being let go, and all three mentioned that they didn't want their characters to remember (read: don't care) about their pre-durance life.

So, yeah. They want to play fae.

>>48136467

It doesn't have to be "you were abused by an evil magic asshole." One of my favorite Changelings spent his time in Arcadia fighting an endless war for his Keeper's amusement; he was basically Lost Spartacus. He still fit the mold of "Changeling is about PTSD" without being the stereotype so many people hate.

>>48136555

They absolutely should play Old Changeling, then. Try and extrapolate DA: Fae to the modern day, and just don't tell them it has anything to do with Dreaming.

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>>48136586
Well, presumably he also didn't like his Keeper. I didn't even say abused, I just said a bad relationship.

>>48136598
>>48136555
Honestly, I can't tell you how to fix this and still play the game you want to run. You can at best either bite the bullet or use the oWoD version of Changelings and do away with the Gentry other than as big evil bad faeries for them to fight.

>>48136715
>take CofD Arcadia
>replace Changelings with First Draft Beasts (who experience their Homecoming and realize they've always been fairies)
>remove Clarity, keep Contracts
>???
>Profit!

>>48136750

Wait a second, I'm an idiot. Just use the rules for Changelings but have them play Charlatans, the exiled True Fae who have forgotten what they are... until now!

>>48135244

At this point I feel like the only person in this thread who isn't a prolific OPP poster posting anonymously/semi-anonymously.

>>48136805
That could actually work.
Hmm. If I give that to the most quiet of the group, along with the idea that he just made up his memories to fit somewhat outside of Arcadia...

By the way, Rich says Scion 2e is gonna be the next Kickstarter after Beckett's Jyhad Diary, most likely in August or September.

>>48136981
And now I begin to fall down the Kickstarter rabbit hole...

>>48136981
Im properly going to pay for that. Scion looks sick as hell, and I honestly want to support OP.

New Tuesday meeting.
http://theonyxpath.com/monday-no-tuesday-meeting-notes-monday-meeting-notes/

>>48137024

The new edition has really won me over and also gives me something to point people who want to like CofD but don't like horror at.

Anyone have Scion character concepts? I'm dying to play an Incarnate Scion of Osiris who is a transwoman andrealized it right alongside her divinity.

>>48136805
>>48136750
Isn't first draft Beast basically just Dreaming? Which is what I said!
Also, why remove Clarity? They shouldn't be able to just ignore *everything*.

>>48135244
>>48136833
I barely post. But people remember what little I had posted for some strange reason.

>>48136981
I can't wait. I will probably want to start brewing Sardonyx stuff right away.

>>48137119
You're such the trans version of a babydyke.

>>48137119
Yay I'm not particularly good at the horror part, So I'll be glad to not worry about that.

And I'll play a scion of hades, hands down.

>>48137119
Also, on the subject of transgender Scions:
I played (for all of like a month of preptime and one session before we realized it was crap) a punky motorcycle babe genderqueerish Scion of Baldr that was adopted by Hel.

Her name was Stacy, because I forgot how Ecstasy was spelled.

I had Nagalfr as a motorcycle, although statting it out in a way that let it do anything was bullshit. I also had a pair of gloves from Baldr, though I don't remember what they did other than act as punchy things.

>>48137119
Daughter of Freyja, playing up the necromancer, war queen act.

Main inspiration would be Princess Skuld, a mythical old Norse princess, said to be half-elf, and powerful enough with magic that her soldiers fought on beyond death, making her impossible to beat in war.

I think that'd fit as inspiration for Scion.

Could also work as a Scion of Odin, but that's too expected.

>>48134737
The Hurt Locker equipment preview had some new explosive rules.

>>48136981

They should have put Scion out this month, Beckett's Jyad Diary is shit fuck oWoD

>>48137231

I resent that!

>>48137891
No, you resemble that.

>>48136833
It's OK anon, you're not the only one.

>>48125985

I think of vampire society in the same terms that apply to prison gangs.

You don't really want to be there at all, but being an outsider is even worse.

Normally a wolf pack is Mom, Dad, and the (often adult) kids, happily hunting field mice.

But force a bunch of random wolves to live together, and the alpha /beta/omega pecking order gets established.

It's about respect, self-preservation, tribalism, sharing of information to not get blindsided, companionship (among equals), and so much more.

Just like most humans, vampires think that society sucks, but it is the stark reality, and isn't easy to change.

I think most vampires have a phase when they play the loner at the edge of town who puts up a bunch of "Keep Out" signs, but eventually the ones that survive accept the necessary evil of vampire politics.

>>48125930

>Archmasters.
Imperial Mysteries is a god-tier book, and one of my favorites.

>>48125959
Demons do start off very powerful.
But what about Arcanthus broken cheese?
Also I will defer to out resident Mummy expert, but I heard they start very OP, no?

Or am I badly misinterpreting the question, and highest tier means best written and fun to play?

I just finished reading the God-Machine Chronicle, and am wondering if all of that schizophrenic, self-contradictory BS is canon in a Demon the Descent game.

There are a lot of interesting ideas in there, but even more missed opportunities.

>>48140186
A well made Demon could probably beat most Acanthus into the dirt.
A well made Acanthus could ensure the Demon never Fell in the first place.

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Fuckin Mages...

>>48137056
Secrets of the Covenants when

>>48143418
Never, most likely.

>>48137325
Methinks you're mixing Skuld, the Danish/German royal, together with Skuld, the norn.

The idea is still cool though.

>>48143556

I wouldn't say never. Probably 2017, since Requiem seems to be on the backburner in general, even with the new co-dev.

>>48143959
All the Masquerade love has pushed Requiem away for now

>>48143982
Fucking CCP.

>>48143959
Is the new Hunter ever coming out?
They said they were doing something there a while ago, but I've heard like... nothing, since.

>>48144025

It was announced about a year ago, and dev cycles on 2e's seem to be about 1.5 years on average, if I've got my math right. 2017 or early 2018 is the most likely date.

>>48143939
>Skuld assembled a large army which included strong warriors, criminals, elves and norns. She was a great sorceress used witchcraft to hide the great muster from Hrólfr and his champions. They then arrived at Lejre one Yule for the midwinter blóts, with all the weapons hidden in wagons to ambush the king at night. A battle ensued and, in the account found in Gesta Danorum, Bödvar Bjarki fought in the shape of a spirit bear until he was awakened by Hjalti. To overcome him, Skuld cast the most powerful spell to resuscitate her fallen warriors and after a long fight Hrólfr and all his eleven champions fell.

It's a fairly common name. And this isn't the Norn, unless we go by REALLY old meanings, where it's just "magical woman".

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Chronicles of Fagness

>>48140422
Not so much, no, but it could be. At the end of the day, GMC is basically just that: Ideas. How the game actually runs is up to you.

>>48144025
Open call submissions are going to be checked in September.

>>48143959
What's the hold up, anyway, and who's co-dev?

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Pic related as a Hunter, picking up where the normie detectives failed and proving the innocence of people that were manipulated by supernatural bullshit, even if it means making up more bullshit.

y/n

>>48145045
>normies
kek

Which is your favorite splat and why is it Beast?

Has it ever been clarified how many starting Discipline dots Reventans get?

3 dots of Common Disciplines, just 1 (as the one Out-of-Clan dot regular characters can get) or none?

>>48141034
This must be the work of the enemy GOD MACHINE.

>>48141034
>>48145904
Nah, senpai, that's a distinctly human error

>>48146080
Mages are the most human of all the splats but at the same time they are the most inhuman because Mages have to have everything always. Forever.

>>48137119
I played an adopted Scion of Hecate, whose actual father was Apollo. Back alley doctor with a big guard dog (Orthrus) and cell phone that constantly got distorted messages from the future as a Destiny/Fate birthright. Was pretty cool.

>>48144890

http://theonyxpath.com/vampire-the-requiem-baby-youre-much-too-fast/

>My responsibilities at Onyx Path are pretty heavy (everything from production to CofD oversight to Kickstarters), so I’ve brought on co-developer Danielle Lauzon for our next book: A Thousand Years of Night.

>>48147948
I thought Secrets of the Covenants was next. When is that even coming out?

>>48148015
Its is next, the new co-developer is being brought in to help thousand years of night to speed that up. Secrets of the Covenant is still all Rose, so thats why its still coming out slowly.

>>48148376
I thought it was in layout over with the art guys, how much longer does that usually take? Why is everyone saying it's going to be another year and a half or something?

>>48147948
>My responsibilities at Onyx Path are pretty heavy

You make up things about about vampires and werewolves and shit for a living. How heavy could that job possibly be?

>>48148643
Publishing can be harsh. More often than not your shit gets scrutinized a lot.

>>48148643
Are you trolling, or... or what?

>>48148643

She's probably not doing this "for a living". Barely anybody who writes this stuff does it as their sole job.

>>48148796
>he fell for the underpaid writer gimmick

Rose literally lives in a mansion, Dracula owns a farm the size of Manhattan

>>48148928

Got a source on those?

>>48149028
Common knowledge. Dave's komodo safaris caused the global recession

>>48149061
Revenge for the recession costing him his job I'm sure.

>>48148796
Then it's even less tough

>>48148796
From the sound of it she's basically running the company, or close to it.
I know /tg/ assumes the books just get written and go straight to the printers, but there's a lot of work that goes into it. Especially if you're looking over several books instead of just one, and it sounds like she manages all of CofD (on top of Cavaliers of Mars).

>>48149235

Yeah, it seems like she's unofficial Line Editor (or maybe it is official, but I've never seen her referred to in that way). I'd ask whose unofficial Line Editor for WoD books, but that's the one Spanish LARPer who Paradox hired.

Has anyone found a good way to do CofD conditions on Roll20?

I am putting a game together and am trying to get something up so I don't have to look up condition text every time someone uses fate 2's hex effect.

>>48148605
>Why is everyone saying it's going to be another year and a half or something?
Because OPP spreads its resources across several projects at once, resulting in each one taking ages.

>>48152066
Screenshot them. Use GIMP and ShareX.

>>48152159

For further explanation, Onyx Path's resources are three (soon to be four) employees and an army of freelancers.

ANY NEWS ON AEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSS????????????????????????

Does anyone know how long OPP takes to reply to submissions? I sent one in late April.

>>48152285

Kickstarter next year, this year's for Scion.

>>48152290

Took me about three months or so to hear back. I assume response time gets longer or shorter depending on what projects are open.

>>48152260
>>48152159
I was just saying it seems like Art Dir is one of the last things done, so if it's there it should be closer than forever.

>>48152481

Well, there's Art Direction (which seems to be purchasing and waiting for the artists to be done), then there's layout/proofing, then approvals. Approvals can take a very, very long time.

>>48152290
She's going to go over them in September.

>>48152731

Thank goodness.

>there's no gameline or Shard that makes CofD feel more like mainline Shin Megami Tensei

Why go on living?

So, I haven't gotten a good read through of the new CofD corebook, and I'll be doing that in the next few days, mostly to have a look at the Investigation rules. Could anyone give me a quick rundown before I read through?

I might be joining a WoD 2e game, depending on what's possible in terms of character creation. Superfriends/crossover is likely. It's looking like I get to choose from Mage, Vampire, Werewolf, and Changeling.

With that said, what game would allow me to make a very effective melee combatant? Yes, I know the games aren't combat focused. I still want it. The original plan was to make an Adamantine Arrow who beats people up with magic fists, but navigating 2e becomes more daunting the more I read.

Before I continue reading through the books, may I please have some suggestions for effective options for melee characters? Any advice for character building in general for 2e would also be greatly appreciated.

>>48154569
>WoD crossover

abandon ship, anon

it's gonna be shit

>>48154569
Crossover games have short lifespans. Go werewolf, since they are combat ready out of chargen while mages take a while to pull off the fun stuff reliably in combat.

>>48154153
Just play Demon or Mage and take a few pages out of SMT's themes. It's not hard, with Demon especially. The God Machine itself can be seen as the embodiment of Law crumbling under the weight of itself why Demon's with their Hells are Chaos.

>>48154679
>>48154723

Alright, so the truth was I'm thinking of joining an online chat and I was kind of embarrassed to say so for some weird reason. Yeah, it's gonna be awful probably.

Sounds like I'll be pulling long hours trying to figure out a Werewolf concept I actually like.

>>48154755

Why are so few folks sympathetic to Law?

>>48154777
>online chat
Be prepared for people treating it like a dating simulator.

>>48154800
Because in a world as shitty as in the Chronicles of Darkness, the Law is almost uniformly oppressive.

>>48154800
Mostly because it typically has the worst endings.

Also, I'm not exactly trying to say that Law is bad, but if someone would want to run a game with the themes of SMT the God-Machine and it's angels would definitely be on that side. It is a rather easy transition.

>>48154827

At least the CofD isn't plagued with the anarchist wank of Eclipse Phase.

>>48154800

Because they refuse to walk the path of glorious Neutrality. No gods, no kings, no demons, only man.

>>48154950
Because capitalism under the sea worked out so well.

>>48154923
That's really just because Eclipse Phase is post cyberpunk, trying to retain the punk elements.

>>48154976
Libertarianism*

>>48154800
Law isn't better or worse than anything else, but it tends to have the biggest institutions so it's "evilness" gets amplified. Wild chaos is usually just as shit, but doesn't get condensed into a single easily hateable entity like Law is.

>>48154569
Werewolf allows the absolute best melee combatants, because you can literally say "Fuck you" and turn into a giant hairy war machine.

>>48154569
>>48154777
>>48154817
Be prepared for lots of gay werewolves
Not that that's a bad thing

>>48154221
Pretty simple
>Encounter mysterious things/enter crime scene
>Say you wanna do a thing to investigate
>Roll dice based on the stated thing
>Gain a clue, the quality if which is decided by your roll(none are useless, but Failures and Dramatic Failures give less complete information)

>Clues can be spent on relevant actions to give a +1 per clue, at ST discretion
>Usually to do stuff like deducing where the monster is going to strike next, who might be connected to those affected, etc

>>48156688
>>Gain a clue, the quality if which is decided by your roll(none are useless, but Failures and Dramatic Failures give less complete information)
>Werewoof gets a bunch of "clues" for the Mage.
>"Those aren't clues Scoob, those are just things you want, like, how is a toilet brush a clue?"

Is Mana Sensitivity a good merit

>>48159562
It has its uses, especially for a 1-dot Merit.
For a start, if someone's carrying around Tass or an Imbued Item or Artifact holding Mana, you'll immediately know.

And... Well, that's pretty much it. Well, bar seeing Hallows without activating Mage Sight.

It's pretty minor.
I'd personally grab a small Grimoire with a couple of Rotes in it instead.

You fucking fucks why didn't you tell me the rp portal was back under a new domain.

I hope you all rot and die

How dangerous do you think a metis pup (10-12 years old, hasn't undergone first change yet) would be? Could two relatively inexperienced hunters take it down?

>>48159977
The rp portal?

>>48159977
It's hardly our fault you aren't on here 24/7 like the rest of us

>>48160993
He's talking about the subnet, the website that copy/pasted everything from every WoD book and got shut down for copyright infringement.

>>48161855
Shit, that's back?

>>48159977
Where?

>>48162548
I assume he's talking about wodcodex, which is essentially the site without any of the infringing text. It's just lists of powers, dice rolls, and costs.

>>48162597
CodIndex is what it is now. And it's got none of the useful stuff.

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So, is Wellington Wells something that was created by the Hegemonic Ministry?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc67_BrCdPc

>>48163652

Well, there's the actual British village town under the control of a Pylon that probably still exists as of 2e.

>>48163539
It gives you the page references, tells you the dice rolls for Disciplines and shit, without being a copyright-infringement.

>>48163724
Yes, but the copyright infringement is the useful part. CoDIndex just means I need to pirate more than one book.

oWoD Gangrel suck.

>>48163775

Could always just read the books.

Where can I get the Demon core book?

>>48163916
DriveThruRPG of the torrent site of your choice

>>48163916
LEARN TO FUCKING GOOGLE

"demon the descent" 4shared

It's the first goddamned link.

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Is this the most useless skill in the game?

>>48164916

No, that would be Politics.

>>48164916
My character has three points in it.
In 43 sessions he hasn't been able to use it once.
Pretty useless, really.

>>48164916

I've never, ever seen Politics get rolled. Animal Ken at least gets used for some Disciplines and Manifestations.

>>48165032

A part of me wonders if cutting the number of Skills and Attributes in half would actually change the game at all.

>>48165028
>>48165032
Politics is the "I can't remember what's happening with all these npcs, remind me" skill.
It's a crutch like Common Sense but it can be useful at times.

>>48165073

I'm really excited to see how much better Storypath will be than Storytelling.

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How accurate is this?

>>48164916
Nope. I've seen it used in a couple of games (granted, you have to build a character that deals with animals -- or have a ST who likes animal enemies -- to use it).

>>48165028
Dude. Politics is a useful skill. It's all about knowledge of political landscape in general. Do you know how much I've been hob-nobbing in a game with a low-social character, but one who knows politics because of his outlooks on the world, and told the ST 'Yo, can I roll Manipulation + Politics in order to start an appropriate hoity-toity conversation and misdirect these people into thinking I'm one of them?'

It's also useful as a 'remind me about <X> political group' especially if you have the right specialization.

I can't say I've never seen one of the core NWoD skills NOT used in some manner (but I play with some outside-the-box thinking players and STs who are willing to roll with concepts and dice rolls that are a bit odd).

>>48165215
Strength isn't bad if you like to use grappling for st- who the fuck am I kidding.
>Being able to get in range for a grapple

>>48165073
I have gotten a lot of mileage out of using the OWoD quickstart methods of attributes being just Physical, Social, Mental and Willpower. Never messed with the skill list though, though I've run games without skills used at all.

>>48165215
Now that melee uses STR it's a bit more useful.

But just take a fucking gun and shoot them, it's way better.

>>48163892
But I'd have to read all of them to know whether a power or trait is something I want. A website also loads faster than a PDF page.

>>48164916
>>48165031
>>48165032
Animal Ken is a kill that only gets rolled when it's needed, but when it's needed you'll find it useful. Also supernatural powers use it. If you're not a character who works with animals or has magical animal powers, no, of course it won't ever come up.
>>48165028
>>48165032
>>48165073
>>48165086
>>48165298
Politics is a knowledge skill, not a social skill. It tells you about how groups work. Wits+Politics will tell you who's in charge. Int+Politics will tell you how to get something done.

>>48165215
Strength is useful if you play a melee character, and with magical powers and the loudness of firearms, and also just the coolness factor, a lot of people I've seen who are combatty will have Weaponry and Brawl.
Intelligence is in my experience the least rolled Attribute. Most of the time you need to roll right away, Wits is used, and if you've got plenty of time, a Library or the internet can mean even average Int gets by just fine. I'd never go under 2 because I don't want to play a dumb character, but I'd never go over 2 because I don't want to waste dots.
Also, Dexterity really isn't all that useful except for physical characters. If you don't do fights and you're more of a social person, you don't really need it.
Oh, and Stamina is used for foot chases.
Stamina/Dex are useful because I like my characters to have Parkour 3 at chargen.

>>48165318
Now? It always has, except in oWoD.

>>48165413
You do realize you can combine attributes and skills outside their categories as long as it makes sense, and the ST is okay with it, right?

>>48165206

I'm sure it'll have its own little weird fiddly bits cause every system does, but it's a solid as hell looking system so far.

>>48165686
I don't know which part of my reply you seem to think implied otherwise.
What I mean is that people think Politics is supposed to be used for politicking. It's not, which is why everyone is right when they say they use Socialize or Streetwise or Persuasion for that. Politics is knowing about political structures.

>>48165028
The Elodoth in my Werewolf game got reasonable use from her Politics skill in the session just finished. She used it to figure out what, if any, agreements the pack would be breaking if they sauntered over into a Pure pack's territory to investigate a lead - what they could get away with without provoking a nasty response, etc.

>>48164916
In my Mass Effect nWoD conversion, Animal Ken and Expression both got dropped from the social skill list. I added Business and Contacts as replacements, iirc.

>>48165921
>In my Mass Effect nWoD conversion
That exists? Link?

>>48165737

Here's hoping a decade+ of work and industry change gets worked in.

>>48165921

Of all the things Fate Core does, adding Resources and Contacts as skills are some of my favorites; playing a character with those was a blast.

Preparedness from GUMSHOE is also brilliant.

Does anyone have any city building advice for Requiem games?

Ipent the past week working on a New York that looks very vanilla Vt:R/V:tM but having read the example places in the back of the Requiem 2e book it feels very lacklustre.

>>48166208

First question: have you read Damnation City yet?

>>48166021
Yup. It's here: https://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Mass:_the_Effecting

>>48165921
>>48166027
Why would Contacts be a skill? Why would Business not be Politics?

>>48166386

Because a character who is notable for knowing lots of people makes more sense to have a Contacts skill than to have the player try to come up with all of those contacts in advance. Likewise, the Preparedness skill I mentioned is "would my character have brought the relevent gear despite me not knowing it until this moment," which I'm very fond of.

>>48166386
Contacts you roll to see if you know someone of use in the current situation.
"I know a guy" is kind of a staple in fiction, so it's actually more odd that it's so rare for it to be a skill.

>>48166254
I genuinely think Blood by Bloody Block is better.

>>48166487

Ok, cool, thanks for sharing.

>>48166208 , have you read either Damnation City or Block by Bloody Block yet? A city-focused book could help you out quite a bit.

>>48166254
>>48166522
Started on Damnation City, though I'm going through the Chroniclers Guide at the moment. I'll have to track down Block by Bloody Block afterwards.

>>48166309
Thanks. My group wants to play a ME game and I'm damned if we're playing another combat game in Fate.

>>48166458
>>48166487
But neither of those are skills. They're special traits. Contacts and Resources as a skill just... why?
Yeah, I can see randomly rolling to determine it, but (in CofD terms) just double the dots and roll that as a dice pool and if you get a success you know someone. Having it be a core aspect of the character just seems really weird to me.
This is also why I rule the Shiv merit as "you can use small knives and such with Brawl and hide them well" as opposed to "this merit literally gives you a piece of equipment".

>>48166667
The game he's played where those are 'skills' uses an abstracted system where it's not necessarily skills, it's special traits/training/skills that you have access to.

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I say it's file name time.

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>>48166995

Am allowed to ask for links that aren't in the pastebin? Like, will I get temp banned if I ask for 2nd edition Vampire or something? Google has done me no good.

>>48166995

Does it have to be?

>>48166995
That's fucking gay as hell

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>>48167180
Why not?

>>48167161
No, it's fine
The pastebin is just horribly maintained
Here ya go
http://www.mediafire.com/download/lxoc8qdapa2xaca/Vampire_the_Requiem_-_SECOND_EDITION.pdf

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>>48167190
Someone doesn't like Mage 2e.

>>48167206
Oh, sweet, thank you! I'll make a Nosferatu Lances character that's basically Char Anzable

>>48166667
>you can use small knives and such with Brawl and hide them well

I honestly think brawl and weaponry should just be turned into one skill at this point.
The split is pretty damn artificial.

>>48167398
They should turn Manipulation and Presence into one attribute first.

>>48167466
There's a reason for that split though (Finesse, power, resistance attributes), there's not really a good reason for the split for weaponry and brawl.

>>48167398
>>48167571
Pretty straightforward to cull each category down to 6
>fold Politics into Academics and Streetwise
>fold Weaponry into Brawl
>fold Animal Ken into Empathy

>>48167571
>There's a reason for that split though (Finesse, power, resistance attributes)
That's not a good reason either, nigga.

>>48167466
>>48167571
Why not have an Appearance stat like Old Wod?

>>48167743

>Appearance as a stat

You really wanna pay to not be hideous?

>>48167466

Manipulation is one person, Presence is the room.

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>>48167815
>not embracing the Nossie inside you
You need to buy Striking Looks in nwod too kiddo

>>48167743
Because Striking Looks is a merit.

>>48167862
Weaponry is weapons, brawl is hands.

See? It's fine.

>>48167743
Because that's retarded and doesn't work with the skill+attribute system without getting retarded about appearance.

>>48167683
That I could get behind.

>>48167690
It's one of the bases for the attribute system you doofus.
Presence is "brute forcing" a social situation, manipulation is using finesse for it. It has mechanical reason for the split. It's arbitrary but you'd need to rework the attribute system to get rid of it.

>>48167867
The way appearance worked made no fucking sense anon, you know this.

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>>48167905
>Presence is "brute forcing" a social situation, manipulation is using finesse for it.
Weaponry is using a weapon in a fight, brawl is using your hands for it. So going by your logic I guess there's no problem in the split after all.

>>48167938
>Ignoring half the post so you can make a retarded comeback that ignores the point.

Why tho?

The attribute system is based on there being 3, it's balanced around that notion, and the attribute+skill mechanic relies on it.

No such reliance is made for the difference between hands and sticks.

>>48167905
Sure it can, just jiggle your boobs whenever you talk to roll Appearance+Persuasion/Subterfuge/Socialize/Expression/Intimidate/Animal Ken

>>48168010
Ok but then how do men do it?
The helicopter?
It would certainly work for intimidate.

>>48167984
Replace Presence or Manipulation with something else. That's it. There's no need to rehaul the shitty system of three.

>>48168034
Adjusting their junk

>>48168035
Any ideas?
I'm open to suggestion.

>>48167743
Because oWoD is fucking shit and should have never existed.

>>48168111
If OWoD never existed, you'd have never gotten NWoD/CofD. So shut the fuck up please.

>>48168128
Fine by me, there would still be better horror games instead of this gay urban fantasy thing.

>>48168035
>>48168073
Maybe upgrade Empathy to an Attribute? There's like 5 different ways of talking to someone but only one way of knowing how someone is feeling, Empathy is a pretty unique skill.

>>48167690
As good a reason as any other, really.

>>48167938
Skills don't have the "Power-Finesse-Resistance" mechanic to them. There's no need to split them to fit this.

>>48165215
For Vampires and Werewolves Strength is useful, since they have powers that boost it even further. They have no powers to boost Dexterity.

>>48168203
Empathy and presence?

Empathy + Subterfuge to know if someone is lying (Representing knowing if someone is lying/reading them)

Presence + Subterfuge to lie, appearing honest.

Empathy + Expression to express your emotions in the work, to know what resonates etc.

Empathy + Socialize to read the mood of the setting and fit in.

...
Maybe?
I'm going to need someone smarter than me to work it out.

>>48168148
Gosh you're a salty fuck.

>>48168423
It's much better than having two attributes with nearly identical purposes.

>>48168456
Have you used it in a game? Is it a lot of effort to rework the rulebooks?

>>48168148
Honest question: If you don't like it, why hang around in these threads?

>>48168492
I'm just saying that it's a good idea. I don't know how well it'd work when up against the rest of the system.

Would it be reasonable to make a Protean devotion that allowed you to take the appearance of those you've drank blood from?
What about Diablerized?

>>48168492
I think we're just spitballing.

I'm definitely thinking of testing out >>48167683 for my next game though.
Will tell everyone how it goes.

>>48168575

Maybe Protean with Obfuscate would make sense.

>>48168517
>>48168581
If anyone does try it out, let me know. Not played NWoD yet, but that shit bothered me in Exalted.

How does blood tax/rent work in Requiem? Do you literally kidnap/Dominate people and provide them?

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>>48166995
Sure.
>>48167180
Yes.
>>48167161
>Will I get banned for asking for pirated books on 4chan?
This is a hive of scum and villainy, and the denizens of this thread have no power but to anonymously insult you.

>>48167466
>>48167862
>>48167690
Manipulation is when you convince someone through lies and deception.
Presence is when you convince them through personality and attitude.

As an example:
Convincing someone that if they don't give you what you want, your contacts will spread rumours that they're a child molester is Manipulation.
Threatening someone with vague and potentially physically impossible things that you'll do to them socially and bodily is Presence.

People just don't realize that and treat them as the same. Resolve and Composure also get mixed up.
Resolve is staying on task and keeping focused.
Composure is keeping a level head and keeping a sense of self.

Resolve is walking on coals and doing that hundredth push up.
Composure is walking into the haunted house without letting your friends see you sweat, or keeping your cool when talking to that hot Werewolf guy.

>>48169371
Fuck off, your system is more broken than 3.5 dnd, no amount of fluff will fix that.

>>48167867
You don't pay to be not-ugly in nWoD. You pay to be not-plain. Striking Looks (explicitly in 2e) doesn't have to be attractiveness, either. You can take it for Intimidate.

If you want Nosferatu ugliness, work with the ST to create a Persistent Condition.

>>48169392
Not that guy, but by posting shit like this you just destroy whatever base you stood on. Dude above you has a point, and responding like a whiny bitch ain't gonna counter it.

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>>48169392
>We're gonna need bigger bait

>>48169822

nu bread