Warmachine General

How's mk3 been for you guys? I started cygnar for it and have been enjoying the change from circle

>>48111655
GW couldn't have released General's Handbook at a more opportunate time, I've completely lost interest in Warmachine thanks to the lackluster mk3 and started building my AOS Skaven army.

>>48112001

What prompted the change in particular? And how are you liking the General's Handbook?

>>48111655
I'm enjoying playing Skorne because everyone has abandoned the faction now that it's been buffed. I guess everyone unironically wanted to play a shit faction so jumped to Trolls or something.

>>48112069
PP made Cryx unfun and General's Handbook fixed the biggest problem with AOS, the lack of list building rules. Skaven already had fun rues but playing AOS was impossible without points.

>>48112165

Thanks for the response, taking a look at the handbook later. I'm a fantasy holdout, but I like to stay appraised of AOS development since one of my friends is really into it.

>>48111655
I fucking hate my trolls.
I play khador too but that just makes me angry about trolls.

I'm quitting the game once September ends

>>48112379
What if you just need to learn to get good with Trolls instead of bullshit tough rolling your way to victory?

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sup guys
in a brief summary what do you think about this game? strong points? you think it's fun?

i pretty much only play bloodbowl and i'm looking for another game to play at the shop with the locals

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>>48111268
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>>48112437

I opted not to say anything.

>>48112408
Fuck off. Tell me with a straight face that the impaler and earthborns are worth taking.

Which Warmachine/Hordes model has the most optimal shape for prostate stimulation? I'm looking for something to spice up the game night.

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>>48113011
For 10 points Cryx can field a heavy with PS16/16/12, MAT7, DEF13 and ARM17, and 28 boxes. Here's what Skorne can field for 2 more points.

>>48113032
TEP

>>48113110
That can always get the full amount of attacks or boosts because of how FURY rocks.

>>48113200
>Garbage animus
>1" thresher
>Pillow fisted
>3 fury

>>48113200
Uh, so can an Earthborn.

>>48113110

Even better is to compare it to the Juggernaut who is the same cost

>>48113110
God that's just embarrassing.

As a fellow hordes player, I am sorry

>>48111655
I finally quit 40k for Warmachine about eight months ago, after having followed the game and collected the models for a few years, and the complete botch-job PP have made of the edition change is making me wish I hadn't bothered. It might just be that I'm hyper-sensitive to the sort of bullshit GW's pulled over the years, but I can see it starting to creep into PP's business practices as well.

>>48113110
And then there is your teradactyl thing. Compare it to the neraph sometime if you want to cry.

>>48113818
It's hardly a botched job. Look at sixth and seventh, or he'll, AoS, for an actual botch job. I'm loving the hell out of this edition. Warjacks actually work!

>>48113110
I can't believe it didn't get that +4 armor vs ranged attacks and backstrokes rule. Feels like an oversight, like the legion spawning vessel lacking man-sized.

>>48113359
>>48113957
It was the worst heavy in Skorne by a long shot in Mk2, and they straight up nerfed it.

Im just curious: What Gunlines are you worried about /tg/ ?

Im trying to be constructive so that when trends become visible it can become easy to overcome them no matter the faction.

As I overview Skorne, I'm not seeing anything bad really. Like outside of the odd terrible warbeast Im not seeing anything terrible as a faction.

>>48114021
I play Protectorate, the only ones I'm worried about are Issyria or maybe Haley1, and that's just if I'm playing Thyra with a ton of Daughters

>>48113818
I mean, there's issues with the edition change, but it's not that damn bad.

>>48114021
P butcher double rifle corp and wgi with rockets are my biggest hurdle.

>>48114070
The biggest problem is buying like nine new warjacks since Amon and Durst actually work now, and also seven gunbunnies weren't enough for once

>>48114021
As a Skorne player I don't find myself too worried about gunlines. I'm a big fan of Makeda1 whose Quicken spell not only protects my Nihilators, but ensures that even if you deal with the first wave, the next guys are gonna charge 11" and cleave your nice tightly packed row of riflemen in half.

If you're wondering about Skorne shooting, then don't bother. It's basically the same as Mk2 apart from the Cannoneer who got a nice buff. We got a nice shiny solo who gives all gunners within CMD +1RAT as well as being a dangerous ranged solo sniper, but it's nothing to warp your list around.

>>48114021
>What Gunlines are you worried about /tg/ ?
Anything involving Kara Sloan, really.

It might not be so bad if she didn't have both Guided Fire AND Field Marshall: True Sight.

>>48114148
Def 15 arm 13 vs Rat 10 + reroll pow 14s

screened by arm 22, 13 p+s reach weapon masters with vengeance

>>48114322
I never said you couldn't kill Nihilators. Nihilators have never been fielded with the intention of them surviving; they're there to be suicidal high RAT/PS assholes. PS12+3d6 is capable of breaking ARM22, and I don't have to bring any support to do it. You're devoting like 30+ points to dealing with my 15 point Nihilators here. I'd say I got the better deal.

>>48114084
What faction are you playing and I may help.

What I overall noticed is that I started grouping infantry into separate categories:

Skirmisher
Defense
Offence

Before 1 would generally do all, but now they do not cross. I found my Iron Fangs shot off the table. So I started screening them behind MOW, and the result was well enough devastating. Though the MOW mostly died, once the IF got through they where at mostly full health, and shooting generally cannot handle elite damage infantry.

>>48113032
Mk1 Seether

>>48114382
The problem with breaking arm 22 vengence is that i place 1 or 2 guys out infront to screen the remaining 10 guys in the back.

you either spend a turn to kill the 2 or eat free strikes from them. WE all know that eating freestrikes isn't gonna help you, but after you kill the 2 in front on my turn i get to essentially activate that unit twice.

at the cost of 1 or 2 dudes i wipe your 15 points for extremely low cost and get to continue on the rest of your army.

Any news on the (complete) Prime/Primal pdfs?

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Here is my WIP, africanized Malekus. The other parts oh his armor will be a mix of dark grey and red. I hope hes good.

>>48114568
you need better blends

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>>48114568
I also added some light green/blue color in the cravises to give the pauldrons a more metallic look.

>>48114458
I play trolls and I can overcome it ok, but it's really fucking unpleasant. I generally hate list chickening and skewing in general

>>48114521
This is pretty Christmasland for you honestly. You're just saying "Well my stuff can beat your stuff in a scenario I'm imagining hahaha".

>>48114021
Kaya Sloan and either Caine

Caine2 with two GMCAs is horrifying. you can't hide behind anything but woods.

>>48114663
Agreed.

I would have thought that Trolls would do well against WGRC by playing the Warbeasts in the front.

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>>48114521

>>48114665
Christmasland describes the miracle of everything lining up perfectly to happen through random chance.

in this scenario all im doing is lining up 2 units, one in front of the other.

>>48114718
So far I have not played against Caine2. I will report how it wen't.

>>48114757
In this scenario I'm running my Nihilators into 2 units, one in front of the other.

>>48114801
> the next guys are gonna charge 11" and cleave your nice tightly packed row of riflemen in half

or would you rather they sit around and get shot up?

>>48114824
Are you suggesting that there's no way to combat a gunline with tanky infantry shielding them? How about I just run all my Nihilators into combat? Can you hit DEF19? Of course you can, you're a magical faggot.

>>48114881
Salty skorne tears aside, i could actually hit Def 19 reliably.

>>48114929
You think thats hot?

I can reliably hit a Def of like a Bajillion! And do infinite damage with every attack!

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>>48114975
gg ez

So is there any way to salvage the Troll Battle Box in the journeyman league?

Maybe just spend the first 2 weeks not playing games and just paining for free points then build your list when you have decent points and access to troops?

>>48114881
House Ellowyr Swordsmen may work with Ossyan. +2 spd+2 def vs ranged attacks so they're speed 8 def 17 vs ranged.

Might be cool and they have parry for walking past enemy models for potential backstrikes.

>>48115148
Slag is necessary to kill jacks.

Just assassinate . It's the only hope

>>48115148
I want to be optimistic but what the fuck is it supposed to do against a heavy. At best you'r getting a Pow 16 attack.

>>48115148

Caster kill. That's it. It sucks.

>>48115354
The Warlock may be able to kill a heavy, but he's gonna be in a vulnerable position to do so.

Sad really.

>>48115316
Where's the Trollblood deck? I've been wanting to find out about the stat of Trollbloods in mk3, but them and Cygnar have missing decks.

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>>48113032
The Throne of Everblight can certainly tickle some fancies if you're into rough stuff.

>>48115148
You just do it Mk2 Skorne style. Strike first under feat. I mean, you have Rush and +2STR at your disposal.

For the upcoming Jouurneyman league r8 my progression

week 1
Helynna
-Manticore
-Chimera
-Griffon

week 2
-Gorgon
Intend to use with Rhythm of War to make my Manticore engage safely.

week 3
-2 mechanics
-Minimal Houseguard Halb
-Houseguard Thane
Mechanics do mechanics stuff, halberdiers screen for my solos and use Thane for threat range.

week 4
-Disco
-Mechanic (#3)
-MHA
-Souless Escort on halbs
Disco makes my Halberdiers a harder to crack, sprays, smites, and can fuck a caster. MHA to clear enemy priority solos when able and to help soften warjacks.

week 5
-UA+full size Halbs
-Nayl
-Lanyssa

Halbs can no be relatively deadly with a 13 inch threat rang, 15 on stuff Lanyssa marks. Lanyssa Marks can do a lot for this army since I'm trying to control a bit of my engagements. Nayl because I can generally find some way to make him useful if I play him carefully.

Week 6
-Battle Mage Unit
More control over when and how I engage heavies.

What's a good first, cheap buy for a legion player after the bb? Assume complete noob here. Also same thing for cygnar

>>48114991
Fellow inmates did that when they found out he raped his newborn son.

>>48116032
A generic good infantry unit. My local Legion player swears by Hex Hunters.

>>48116032
Scytheans are good too. Stalkers can support themselves and they have a nice Solo. Naga Night Lurkers are sexy. If you can get em for a good deal, such as through the 2 player box, Warspears are sexy sexy.


Vayl1 is a cheap, strong, and relatively easy to understand caster if you don't like Archer bitch or Spear lady.

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is Amon gonna get out of stock judging from the amount of people saying hes gonna be Menoth's top tier caster?

>>48116052
>>48116119
So would you recommend getting a better heavy immediately or a new caster? I want him to be able to have a little bit of versatility for his force, so maybe the caster?

>>48116203
If all you have is the battlebox, you should probably pad your army out with infantry next. No point fussing over what beasts you have when you don't have any infantry at all.

>>48116203

I would personally suggest a caster and some infantry.

Vayl1 or 2, Striders+UA, Warspears+UA, If you take Vayl 2 then Swordsmen or Archers+UA are awesome under Occultation.

>>48116246
Ok. So are swordsmen a good unit to pick up? And you said something about hex hunters?

>>48116516
I honestly don't know much about Legion since I play Skorne. But Hex Hunters are high MAT, high DEF (when armour is irrelevant anyway), and after they kill something they get to fire a magic missile at something else, so can potentially kill 2 things each. And they're only 15 points for 10 of the cunts. I'd compare them to my own Nihilators; good in lots of situations. The downside is their weapons are small and their PS is only 10. I'm looking at Blighted Nyss Swordsmen now and they seem pretty good. Weapons with 2" range are super relevant for tying up the enemy, and PS11+3d6 is one hell of a smack. On the charge a few of them will put a big dent in a heavy.

But again I don't play Legion so I don't know your infantry options or support.

>>48116246
>>48116395
Woops I didn't see these. So Vayl first, and then a unit based on taste? Sounds good to me I'll let him know.

>>48115946
I would take Sents over Halbs + Thane. On feat turn they're basically unkillable, and they rank up into a full unit + UA making them even tankier.

>>48116743
Do they have a 13-15 inch threat range though?

My goal is to have them do a long distance charge and either mess up a warjack, remove most or all of an enemy unit, or tar pit while inflicting damage.

A unit of mat 8s pow 14s charging is gonna still hit pretty hard even without weapon master.

I can see the argument for something durable like Sents, but I don't own the models and I'm valuing the threat range a bit more right now.

How about Invictors? I bought some for cheap from someones consignment.

>>48116629
Vayl 1 or 2 are both pretty good. Good spell lists and good feats.

I like Vayl 2's Occultation since it makes your archers and Swordsmen a bit harder to kill.

Vayl 1 has Incite though to remove the pillows from all your fists. The Heavy in the Battle Box gets a lot stronger with Incite.

>>48116960
But why make a weak heavy strong when you could make a strong heavy stupid?

>>48117174
Cheap+high threat range primarily. We're talking about someone with a battlebox anyway, so it's not like they have access to a bunch of beasts.

Yo so are Nephelim any good now? I seem to recall the protector being one of the joke beasts of yesteryear

>>48117327
Protector gets Guard Dog.

Zuriel has PS 15s and is decent with twins2

Soldier is not that good

Magic one can cast animi, but has 3 fury, so pick wisely.

>>48117420
Soldier can pretty reliably cut off a jack's arm with a little help.

>>48117327
Protector is solid, bolt thrower is pretty much the same as always. Bloodseer is sort of crippled by the fact that 95% of our animi are now self. Soldier is sort of cheap, but only ps 13 and fury 3.
Like >>48117520 said, it can pick off a limb with precision strike, but its points better spent elsewhere usually.

Zuriel is a 19 point heavy outperformed by pretty much everything. He's almost useful with the twins as their stealth arcnode, but his animus is on the harrier, and hes no longer great at anything.

>>48117520
Actually yeah, under Incite they aren't too bad.

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which army would you recommend to a noob if i wanna bash skulls as hordes

>>48112165
.....how are beastmen? I jumped ship to WMH last february after they blew up the old world, but now my cryx have lost quite a bit of flavor as have the core rules (this is not related to how most things were nerfed). Plus the roll out in general & the continueing 'beta' left a really bad taste in my mouth.

I'm considering possibly going to 9th age or *maybe* AoS tho the rules are not so hot
Also what are the things on the back of Ragnar's cloak suposed to be? I'm painting my friends and am not sure if its leather or metal

>>48117616
Circle has some pretty good stuff for bashing skulls.

If what you want are a lot of big models then go Warmachine.

>>48117616
go minions

pigs for days

>>48113110
Idk why people always overlook the slayer's terrible grid when spouting its praises. They are quite difficult to deliver, and I never want them over other choices. Honestly, I consider the Inflictor to be Cryx's "baseline" jack.

>>48116190
I'd be more concerned about getting your hands on Menoth heavies; the Crusader/Templar/Vanquisher kit is out of stock at Miniaturemarket and DGI.

>>48117698
It's not a praise, but the fact that something's more garbage than it.

>>48117698
He's not saying the Slayer is great.

He's saying the Slayer shits on the Rhinodon.

>>48117716
>>48117791

Just to pile on: The *only* Field Marshal in Skorne is FM: Channeler on eHexeris, which doesn't really improve the beast. Skorne's "beast casters" have single-target buffs.

Cryx has FM: Unyielding on Gaspy3 (who also has Mobility), and the Sacrificial Lamb and Terminal Velocity on Morty and Venethrax.

So, not only is the Slayer a better cheap warnoun than the Rhinodon *and* cheaper, spamming it (which is really the point of it being cheap, is it not?) works *better* in Cryx.

And the Slayer is not the best cheap jack, and Cryx is not the best faction for running seriously jack-heavy.

The Rhinodon is just pathetic. But he's not alone, "cheap" heavy beasts in generally are amazingly shitty compared to cheap heavy warjacks.

>>48117716
>>48117791
Yeah, but your still comparing two bad things. And they arent even in the same faction so the comparison is a little misguided.

It doesnt make one better, they're still bad regardless

>>48118046

no, the slayer is definitely better than the rhinoshit

>>48118046
a) I'm not convinced Slayers are bad when spammed under Gaspy3 or Venethrax.

b) It's not misguided if you actually take the proper context in to account. The whole "you can't compare between factions" is bullshit to justify the Pollyanna line of shit from PP that everything is fine*.


* - not that I think the game is horribly unbalanced *overall*, but some things are just fucking broken. Cheap heavy warbeasts are pretty high on that list.

>>48118120
Fury 3 heavy beasts

why.

Light beasts being highly expensive and brittle.

Seriously compare a Griffon and the Nephilim Soldier.

>>48118046
I would spam slayers for Gaspy 3 or venethrax.

It's janky as shit, but it's something. Maybe even Denny 3.

Rhinodon is just pure shit

>>48118273
Just saying, two Rhinodons could charge a Marauder and still not kill it. The following turn the Marauder could kill at least one Rhinodon

>>48118103
The slayer is better, its probably better than a lot of crap heavies. Its still crap.

>>48118120
See, with venethrax's basic support of DW, 2 sirens and the combine and then maxing out heavies, I can either take 5 inflictors and 1 slayer, or 7 slayers. I just prefer the later since they have better delivery and reach.

And true, you can compare things across factions I just don't think people take what the factions do to their pieces into acount when they do it.

>>48118305

You know, if the Rhindon was some sort of power attack beast, I could justify him.

Like, if he had some sort of powerful slam ability or a chain attack that gave him some type of utility, I think he could be cool.

I do not understand the Rhinodon or the Archadon. Both are so fucking handicapped. I would rather take just about any 2 lights in Skorne instead of them. And of course, the Gladiator is 2 more points.

>>48118424
Like that Shadowhorn Satyr with fucking bounding leap and chain attack throw? Who can animus for beat back so he could instead just make 6 beat back back strikes instead of throwing?

>>48118424
Yeah, thats the thing I dont understand at all. If the rino and the satyrs are supposed to be the budget options, than why arent they? As you said, the gladiator is 2pts more, and its still going to be in most lists because its flexible.

I guess satyrs are 12pts compared to the slayer's 19

>>48118424
PP secretly hates the skorne dinosaurs and wished they never made them

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So I'm going to paint up my Malekus, and I figured I would do a couple of pages from a cookbook for his book. I think pies would be appropriate. What kind of pie should I do? I was considering meat pies. Is Malekus a pork pie man? Or chicken pot pie? Or something else?

>>48119205
Shepard's pie

>>48119266
Hahaha that actually works on several levels

>>48118537

Part of me thinks that just running a Horde of Gladiators might be decent.

>>48118523

Yeah. I have always liked the Shadowhorn and never understood why people didn't. He seems like a beast with crazy as hell assassination angles and now that throws are way easier to use, he will probably be great at lining up assassinations or at least fucking over enemy heavies by throwing them to the wolves. He's weaker now but he still seems like he could be interesting if people experimented with him.

The Rhinodon could have had some sort of slam on his tail to just pinball enemies around. He would have also been cool if he had Overtake and kept reach on his tail instead of Thresher. So maybe he could surf through a unit. Really, fucking anything to give him a defined role. Thresher on him seems nuts. He already has 3 initials so thresher is only good if he has more than 3 enemies in his range. THen they gave him Spiny Growth which, might have been interesting if he had stayed Arm 18 or been bumped to 19 where he could act as an Arm 20/21 block to hold areas. Even if Spiny Growth was changed so that it hurt things other than beast when he got hurt, it would have made him a nuisance to put in an area and force the enemy to remove.

As it is, he just has nothing and costs way to much for it.

The Archadon is baffling though. I honestly though he was perfect in MK2 and even if they made Sprint SELF only, he would have been usable with a point reduction. Instead, I have no clue what he does except be shitty Savage. Same Threat range, same Fury stat, similar dmg output. The Archadon is harder to kill but, he is also still paper thin and costs 4 more points.

>>48117616
Skorne is all about getting up close and personal.

>>48112420
The new edition is fine but has brought out the worst of the community here.

The game is fun. The rules are the tightest on the market, the resource systems add a lot of depth, and the fact that assassinating an opponent's general is always a win condition means even when you're losing you can still eek out a hail mary victory every now and again.

>>48117616
How do you want to bash skulls in?
Everyone can bash skulls in, the flavor and method are up to you.

Skorne player here: I've lost interest in Warmahordes. I've given Mk3 a good number of games/chances.

I actually think Skorne has some viable lists, and some cool new toys. They're stronger than some people credit them with. However, the transition to MK3 up and changed their play style too much. I've got a lot of money sunk into models that simply feel like they belong to a completely different faction than what I was sold on. Whether or not they win becomes irrelevant if I don't enjoy the games. I personally feel like an imbecile calmly walking up the board so I can "take it on the chin". (Euphemism for being completely at the mercy of competent opponents unless you're skewing/abusing some ball-busting imbalance). I want something proactive.

I don't want to flush half my models so I can buy the new-good, just to realize I hate the play style. I don't have enough faith to hit up another faction, so I'm out.

>>48121088
Well, That was Skorne since inception. PP switched them up in mkii from mki and they did it again from mkiii.

I'll join you in september. The gaming market is a deep enough pond now to play other games.

>>48121125
I keep seeing September pop up. What is in September?

>>48121193
Probably just baiting (you)s, I suspect he's one of the AoS shills that keep baiting /wmh/ gen.

Got 3 battle group boxes: Cryx, Skorne and Circle, is that a good start with a friend or should I get the two-player starter box too? (which would further bolster my amount of Cryx and Skorne units)

>>48121193
September is when alot of people go back to college.

i assume it's that

>>48121352
if you have the battle box, the 2 player sets are kind of a waste unless you want both units and atleast two more of the jacks/beasts

>>48121453
>if you have the battle box, the 2 player sets are kind of a waste
Good to know, thanks! Although I don't even know what's in the mk3 two-player box, so I would've waited anyway until I found the content somewhere

>>48121512
the mk3 2 player box are basically the factions battle box and a unit

cryx - bane warriors
skorne - swordsman

they also don't come out till aug

>>48121193
my friend is actually going back to college. WM is primarily our thing. I'm just going to quit when he goes back to school.

>>48121531
Oh, good to know, thanks!

>>48120729

don't recommend skorne to a new player you fucking idiot. give them a faction that isnt utter shit that they can have fun with.

being a dick to newbs who go out and spend money on utter shit is a terrible way to grow the playerbase

>>48122454
Most of the problems Skorne has are in a competitive sense.

And even then, it's not like Skorne is Orks or O&Gs. They're still totally playable.

is it possible to win on scenario on take and hold / close quarters?

i'm currently sitting down to learn eHaley as competitively as i can to the highest level as i can, and is this just a dead scenario that i have to play attrition / assassination or is victory by scenario actually possible?

>>48122632
It's a dead scenario that exists purely to force engagement.

>>48122632
Take and Hold is one of the most dead scenarios in the game at the moment.

If you're learning to play competitive, the answer is to build your other list to deal with situations where you can't get a reliable win.

>>48122712
>>48122720
>>48122729
>>48122736
>>48122750
Nice illegal content.

>>48122750
>>48122736
>>48122729
>>48122720
>>48122712
Any reason for posting this? I don't see any difference between it and the already known stats.

>>48122869
Isn't he buffed up?

>>48122762
Fuck, is possession of Warmachine unit cards illegal?
I should burn them asap!

>>48122922
It's his Mk3 stats without any changes.

>>48122922
If you mean relative to Mk2, yes, Mk3 epic Reznik is very much buffed up. Same core concept as a caster, but every aspect of him - stats, abilities, spells, feat - got an upgrade.

As far as Mk3, this is the same card that circulated with the spoiled decks.

>>48113200
Ever heard of opportunity cost?

That fury's got to go somewhere. Unless you're paying 12 points for a beast that you plan to never take fury off of and will just let frenzy every turn, you've got to draw that fury off somehow. And 1 point of fury on that beast is not equal to 1 point of fury on a gladiator.

>>48123542
Frenzying means nothing, you get a free charge against the enemy with a boosted attack roll, basically two free fury. And the comparison was against Slayer, not Gladiator.

>>48123573
Oh wow, a free pow 14 charge for my twelve fucking point activation, against the closest target, which means if it's under 3 inches it doesn't even boost damage. HOW FUCKING AWESOME

In order to comment on its fury stat, you have to consider fury's opportunity cost. The slayer gets power-up focus with 0 involvement from any other model. The rhinodon, if it wants to do anything at all, has to spend fury which then has to be taken off by the caster or beast handlers or else your 12 point activation does literally nothing the next turn. The gladiator is incredibly relevant because it is FAR better to spend your resources on it instead of on the rhinodon.

>>48123663
>which means if it's under 3 inches it doesn't even boost damage. HOW FUCKING AWESOME

Pretty sure frenzying boosts damage as well. So we are in agreement that Rhinodon is better than Slayer then? Skorne players should stop crying, they're still much ahead of Cryx in the power curve.

>>48123747
Not anymore. You have to make an actual 3" charge movement to get the boosted damage now.

>>48123747
That's mk2 frenzy. Maybe you should learn the fucking rules before you comment?

>>48123747
No, we're not in agreement that 14/13/13 mat 6 for 12 is better than 16/16/12 mat 7 for 10.

>>48123789
Maybe you should learn how worthless focus is as a mechanic and how much Slayers suck before piping in.

>>48123833
Thanks, but I played warmachine before I played hordes. Maybe you haven't actually played mk3, because focus is fine now.

>>48123802
Don't forget that sweet 1" PS13 thresher attack, Anon ;^)

>>48113110
When you see a Skorne crying about their beast stats always add 2 str from beast handlers and +2 move from rush.

As for this dino it's an anti-infatry tresher delivery system.

>>48124177
Don't forget to add some extra points for those Handlers too, and a couple from bringing another heavy. So really that Rhinodon comes in at about 15/16 points. What a deal.

>>48114021
The current gunlines to beat are:
Sloan
Dynamo
2x Defender
2x Firefly
2x Hunter

Khador
Behemoth
Full WGRC
Full snipers

Severius 2 with at least 3 reckoners.

>>48124177
Oh, so the rhinodon costs 12 points, plus another 2 or so from beast handlers, then another 14 points and 2 fury for rush. Thanks anon, that's a much better deal. Now it's got a pow 16!!!!!! Kinda like the slayer but with worse mat and way more points.

>>48124570
It's 5 points for 4 handlers and 7 points for 6.

>>48124177
Oh wow! Mat 6 1 inch thresher! That's sure going to show them. Why you might get 3 whole infantry in your range and hit one of them. Great investment!

>>48124601
But you can boost the hit on all of them because FURY IS ALWAYS THERE TO USE.

>>48124586
Yes, no shit.

Are you using one handler per heavy? Probably not. You probably have two beast handlers per heavy meaning each heavy is paying about 2 extra points for +2 str.

>>48124614
And then either your beast frenzies, or you just spent your fury capacity on the rhinodon instead of the fucking gladiator which is in the list giving it rush in this scenario.

>>48124614
Also I hope you walked and didn't want to cast spiny growth, because if you did you're not boosting shit. But also your 11/17 heavy without spiny growth immediately dies

>>48118363
>I just prefer the later since they have better delivery and reach.

I think you're correct, but Slayers in that list are still playable (and I'd think the optimal balance would be more like 3 : 4 instead of 5 : 1, modulo futzing with the support options), and the Rhinodon just... isn't.

>I just don't think people take what the factions do to their pieces into acount when they do it.

Yep. Issue here is Cryx supports *multiple* warnouns better than Skorne (and I assert that when you start talking about "budget" heavies, you're less concerned about single-target buffs).

The best I can come up with (and this isn't just a Cryx vs. Skorne thing, but WM vs. Hordes) is PP balanced the cheap beasts assuming they'd be maxed on Fury every turn, which isn't actually viable on the table if you run the quantity of beasts that you need to if you're relying on cheap heavies. They said they wanted Hordes players to take more Frenzy checks, but I don't think they realize that *passing* a Frenzy check is usually worse than failing.

>>48119205
Vallejo brown airbrush primer?

Recently primed up my Menoth jackspam with it...

>>48124601
And that is still better than paying 1 fury per attack on infantry models.

>>48124570
>comparing costs between factions
It doesn't work.
Troll mauler can one round pretty much anything in the game for 15 points and I don't see trolls dominating mk3 for some reason.

>>48124189
Don't forget that the Fury to cast Rush either comes off the caster or has to be mitigated, too.

And if you use handlers to enrage, you then either get no fury management from them, or need a second unit, boosting the cost even more.

>>48124985
Not comparable according to who? PP who fed us that bullshit line to have something to fall back on when their shit doesn't work?

I would like to see what list exactly doesn't work in Skorne and how it "Sucks".

Sure the Rhinodon is an indefensible warbeast, but I don't see it as time to panic.

What list do you want to make with Skorne and how do you see it failing and why?

>>48125225

It's less a matter of what doesn't work, and more of a case of Skorne was never very powerful to start with, their dominant tournament build (Fist of Halaak) got both removed as a thing (until theme lists are out, at least) *and* the underlying units nerfed. *And* Enrage no longer giving free charges decreases Fury efficiency across the board, *and* Condition no longer takes away all Fury, *and* the Bronzeback got nerfed, *and* Far Strike being self-only impacted the ranged game.

Sure, some of the changes were game-wide (e.g., Fury management and 8-box infantry), but they were things we relied on, and then other stuff we relied on that was pretty Skorne-specific got nerfed.

And then we didn't get much good in return. Or, really, we didn't get much *exciting* in return: the new Agonizer is great. Makeda2 having unlimited Stay Death is great. The Gladiator being 14 points is pretty good. But there's nothing I (at least) can point to and say "this makes me excited to add to my Skorne stuff", so I'm working on my Circle and Protectorate.

>>48120851
>How do you want to bash skulls in?

are there any elite, low-model count armies that like melee combat?

>>48125225
Skorne has a major fucking problem with dealing with gunlines. Any list has Rio deal with that. The only things that can survive shooting are the aradi. Soldier is too expensive to use, sentinel is short ranged and does fuckall to non living and doesn't have an animus anymore.

Menoth jacks have the same statline as titans, but they are cheaper and can become immune to non magical shooting. My mk3 skorne experience is that I can't deliver into guns in any meaningful way. Krea can't keep up with running infantry for its 3 inch +def aura, and does exactly fuckall to our beasts. Going from 10 to 12 is all but meaningless. I took the krea once to try out, and never again. Hills, obstacles, and rubble don't block los, so you're having to rely on tables that are very densely populated using only the terrain varieties that block los.

>>48125140

So 10 points to run your warbeasts as warjacks, as if they've been costed as warjacks, with the changeover in performance (focus becomes better) happening after maybe 3 heavies. If you were nuts enough to take light warbeasts in mk3 for anything more than a one-activation early game gimik, earlier.

>Re: Rhinodon and Archidon
>"cheap" heavy beasts in generally are amazingly shitty compared to cheap heavy warjacks
It's true for Skorne, but I don't think that holds across the board. Circle's satyrs seem like they are in a pretty good place as cheap alternatives to the warpwolves. They're not phenomenal, but "2 Warpwolves = 3 Satyrs" seems to be approximately the right balance point where they are sometimes compelling.

In particular, the "Primal Problem" is a lot less painful when you're trading away a 12 or 14 point heavy instead of a 19 point one. And all the satyrs bring a little bit of utility and/or board control to boot.

>>48125585
That do good in MKIII? I'm still searching. Been getting shot off the table.

>>48125595
>>48125554

What I say is this: Stop comparing to other stuff. Not because it may not be better, or because some shit may be unfair, or because you shouldn't cross compare.

But to help yourself out of a rut. Focus on what gunlines are a problem, and focus getting out of them.

From say somebody who has never played Skorne:

You still have solid Warcasters with good spells (My opinion and all it could be). Titans still are resilient. Still the best Beast buffers I have seen in Hordes are in Skorne.

The only thing I see thats bleh as an outsider is a bunch of your Units. They just seem bland and not particularly good at anything.

>>48125585
Define "elite" and "low".

Most of the lists I run at 75 points seem to bounce between 15 and 35 models.

Circle seems to work best right now with really low model count (my 15ish model lists tend to be Kromac2 beast bricks). Not sure if it's the best, but I tend to run a middling number of elite beasts with Circle while running larger numbers of cheaper jacks with Warmachine factions, and more infantry in non-Circle Hordes factions.

Look into Kromac2 lists.

>>48125225
Less bang for your buck. All things work when you look at them it in isolation, but fall flat once you start playing.
It's kind of like orks in 40k, but without the humor. That's because Skorne in itself is a joke. A bad one. That kills.

>>48125657
>What I say is this: Stop comparing to other stuff.

What I say is this: Go fuck yourself.

>From say somebody who has never played Skorne:

I repeat: Go fuck yourself.

I'm not in a rut, I don't think Skorne is "bad", they're just not exciting right now, so I'm focusing on my other armies.

>Sure the Rhinodon is an indefensible warbeast, but I don't see it as time to panic.

Some actual thought on the Rhinodon: They were kind enough to explain themselves on this one- they wanted an in-faction bargain basement heavy. The cheapest thing you could pay points for that was a heavy, that you only got because you needed a heavy- any heavy.

Utter failure. Does not perform as a heavy- although it has heavy tier armor through the simple expedient of lowering light warbeast armor faction-wide, and has heavy armor on closing... oh yeah- can't use animi and run. Welp, so much for that. So that's actually the gladiator.

If they absolutely couldn't force themselves to put things on cards and then make players not pay points for them... NO animus (worth the name, if they aren't allowed to to that)? -1 STR on claws, +2 STR on Tail, Tail gets reach, crit brutal, fuck Thresher. Relentless charge. 10 points, or +1 to 11 for the You're Playing Skorne Tax. Sees the table.

>>48125670
i will, thanks

>>48125863

That and Carapace, yeah.

(fuck, make Carapace an low-cost animus and I'd play a Rhinodon as is only mildly pissed off at its pillowfistedness.)

I think the main problem with "wow X unit is bad" isnt that "oh wow X unit is bad" by itself but "oh wow X unit is bad in a completely brand new update that was suppose to fix it. da fuck were the game makers doing?"

and its not even like you can use the warhammer joke "oh lol they nerfed the shit everyone owns to make more money" (gatormen), cause the rhinodon was a paper weight in mk2.

>>48125706
>I'm not in a rut, I don't think Skorne is "bad", they're just not exciting right now

Thats fair, and also the worst thing to happen to a faction

>>48125863
>The cheapest thing you could pay points for that was a heavy, that you only got because you needed a heavy- any heavy.

I think if its tail had reach and it had murderous it would be good at what it does.

>>48125149
According to existing collective experience with mk3.
You can cherry pick seemingly broken stuff from different factions and be butthurt about not having it. But if you're a person making and playing lists of that faction you have to deal with the context.

>>48124614

If PP actually had the courage of their convictions on Fury being risk/reward versus Focus in mk3, they'd give all warbeasts a blanket +2 Fury stat increase in the Errata.

Because they clearly don't have it. Right now, they're just warjacks that can serious fuck up your game and have an edge in smaller games, which erodes steadily as things get bigger and more of them are on the table. Especially when matched against warjacks doing the same thing.

>>48126088
How would that fix anything? As it is most heavies completly outshine jacks. Like compare the gladiator and the slayer, the baseline heavys. They have the same amount of initials, but the glad at fury 4 gets an extra attack because the slayer really only has 2 focus after charging (with most casters). The glad can make 6 attacks and the slayer only gets 5, and the glad has the ability to run hot at any time.

Even with the addition of power up, I still usually cant get all the potential work out of a big battlegroup.

>>48126349
You mean the gladiator that costs more than the slayer? the hordes beasts who all got their threshold and fury management?

WM people need to stop believing in the delusion that warbeasts fully boosted everything all the time at every opportunity.

>>48126349

It'd be one hell of a reward for the risk, though. As opposed to a kind of tedious and unrewarding management problem with what is fundamently the same sort of warnoun in a performance sense.

Make frenzies a consequence of actually going out and getting a tangible benefit, instead of screwing up your math, activation order, or keeping pace with the other guy. 1 Fury left on table means a ~40% chance of you lose a warnoun activation and damage into something else you own (it pretty much does, that's the reality of the new frenzy), and what did that bit of "living dangerously" get you the previous turn? A normal sized allocation budget?

PP should live up to their words or eat them. Risks vs. Rewards.

>>48126396
the key difference i can see is that beasts could at any time become more dangerous.
while a jack needs to be loaded from a limited pool beforehand.

the difference is amazing.

i wouldn't call it balanced. but i also don't think that one is better, across the board, than the other.

but
>if i take 3 huge bases as my battlegroup, should i be able to fully utilise said battlegroup?
and cast spells?

File: 1446692428318.gif (565KB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

565KB, 480x270px

>>48126758
>>if i take 3 huge bases as my battlegroup, should i be able to fully utilise said battlegroup?
That's a trap option for both systems. The consequence is just timed different. WM you get screwed now since you are strapped, in hordes you are screwed next turn.

Again, WM people need to seriously wake up from the delusion that hordes got what they wanted, what they needed every single turn at full force.

>>48126758

That was clearly their initial concept- but the ceiling on how dangerous warbeasts can be is *low*. Even more damning than that, it's *balanced*. Leveled. To the point of equivalent performance across systems if the players are good enough at planning. So raise the roof.

>>48126849

Specifically: "There is not a thing I can do being profligate that you could not likewise accomplish being economical". Fury can't go crazy in a specific area, they can make a modicum of unneccessary effort table-wide, taken as a whole. But if you cordoned off the play of a 1-foot by 1-foot grid in a game you'd be hard pressed to say if the Hordes player was going crazy with his fury budget or not by what was happening there.

For that matter, "profligate" isn't 3, 4 fury where there would be none. It more like one extra per beast- and I hope you enjoyed not having that as a transfer target and wrecking your game if you don't get a decisive swing that turn with those 3 or so net free boosts.

They talked a good game with the threat of fury deciding to turn "on" at any point, but then they padlocked the gear shift before they finished the design.

>>48127008

The solution I think is to get rid of threshold checks. Make everything like Wolds, with extra fury hanging around and gumming up the works in later turns. Frenzying as a voluntary "flushing" mechanism, keeping how it carries out in mk3.

Does anyone have the IK Unleashed Wild Adventure or Wrath of the Dragonfather?

Here is Blood of Kings:
http://www74.zippyshare.com/v/jN87SeCl/file.html

This game looks cool, how do I get into it? How expensive are armies n stuff? It can't possible be worse than the current GW price gouging I deal with

>>48127696
$40 for the new battleboxes which contain rules and a 0 point army (note that your leader -- warcaster or warlock -- comes with 30ish "battlegroup points" to be spent on warbeasts or warjacks; the dominant competitive point size is 75, so a "zero point army" here is roughly 30 points compared to a full size roughly 105 point army).

Most game stores with a WMH community will be running journeyman leagues starting in the next couple of weeks set up around building up from the battlebox to a full-size army.

It's cheaper than GW, but not drastically so if you obsess over it. One of the big draws is that your caster (which is usually a $10-15 model) radically changes how the army plays.

>>48127780
Sweet, thanks brah
What are like the different factions and how do their play styles differ? How drastically do the warcasters or warlocks influence stuff? What are all the expansions and whats with all the different versions and shit? Which rules should I look to use?

>>48126832
>in hordes you are screwed next turn.

But if your opponent is dead by then who the fuck cares?

When you need killing and killing NOW, thats what the Power of Hordes is.

>>48127897
What do you see as interesting?

Do you want a gunline?
Lotsa stompy robots?
Attrition?
Massive groups?

What sort of aesthetics are you fond of?

Go to their website and look at the gallies of minis.

>>48127696
There's a couple of 'introduction' sets available. You can either get a 'two player army box' which has two small sized armies from different factions that you can share with a friend.

You can get 'Battleboxes' which contain a warcaster and warjacks and are a cheep introduction.

You can get an 'all-in-one army box' which has just about a full standard army size group for a faction.

Any option is pretty good though I would mostly recommend getting a Battlebox since they're the cheapest intro option and will give you a good taste for what the game has.

Over all you'll be spending around $5USD per infantry model, a little more for heroes and leaders, around $20 for light jacks/beasts and $30-$40 for the big warjacks and warbeasts.

A '75 point army' (which is the current standard play) will cost you around $250-$300 at MSRP, though a battlebox can help cut that down some since they're a good deal for the points.

And like >>48127780 said, getting a new warcaster/warlock will make your entire army act a good bit differently.

>>48127897
Warcaster's and Warlocks have unique spell lists that will allow them to buff their troops or blast others. Some might focus on buffs and debuffs while others hurls out cataclysmic explosions. Just this will alter your tactics greatly. Additional each warcaster/warlock has what is called a 'feat' a once per game ability that can really turn the tide of battle. These can range from making yoru entire army stealthed and just about immune to ranged attacks and charging enemies to giving all of your models extra damage dice, to giving the opponent massively debilitating debuffs.

The 'expansions' like Reckoning and such are books full of fluff and new model stats. You can use the War Room 2 app on your phone or use the android .apk that's in the OP post to keep up with new models, no need to buy the books unless you want fluff.

As for rules use the Mk3 Primal that's in the OP post to learn how the game plays.

>>48127966
If you are losing everytime a hordes player boosts then fucking get gud.

You also get a "killing now"turn after turn. Nothing's preventing you from allocating turn after turn

>>48127989
>>48128005
Got it, thanks guys

>>48127966

Except... it isn't.

>mk3
>era of the Fury 3 heavy
>also, skorne, no free charges. no free charge spells. we also nerfed fuel cache before you could get it, sit back down.

>>48127104
If warbeasts became warjacks with imprints then yeah, I think I will be ok with that at this point.

Since Frenzy doesn't even auto boost damage anymore even shoving it in the enemy isn't great of an investment. I would rather take my unboosted initials if that's the case.

It's sad to see it be so fucking boring but it's better than the current iteration.

>>48127897
>What are like the different factions and how do their play styles differ?

In all of these descriptions, note that things in general tend to default to melee over ranged. The new edition favors shooty armies more than it has in the past, but melee is still more or less the default way of getting things done.

Cygnar - The setting's space marines. Very much changed in the new edition, tend to have high quality jacks (as opposed to high quantity) and shooty infantry.

Khador - Every "In Soviet Russia..." joke put together into a faction. Likes infantry. Likes big, slow jacks.

Menoth - Religious zealots. Like to set shit on fire. Best jack support other than CoC. Known for stacking buffs and defensive tech.

Retribution - "Elf Qaeda"; terrorist anti-human elves. They have really good infantry now and sleek jacks that are often quite shooty.

CoC - Not a full faction. Has the best jack support, but not a ton of options.

Cryx - Undead faction. Good infantry, powerful casters, and fast but fragile jacks.

Mercenaries - Tend to run cheap but good value jacks and has a huge spread of infantry and solo support.

Circle - Psychopathic druids. Tends to run very warbeast heavy, support them well, and have good movement rules. Somewhat glass cannony on the warbeast side, infantry is mediocre at the moment.

Skorne - Psychopathic samurai hobgoblins. Likes heavy infantry and heavier warbeasts. Known for its players constantly complaining.

Trolls - Tough (both by having the "Tough" rule and just being generally resilient) infantry combined with solid (if unexciting) warbeasts.

Legion - Edging ever close to Lovecraftian tentacle monsters with every book. Corrupt dragon-ish warbeasts and decent infantry. Good movement, pretty glass cannony.

Minions - Pigs and gators. Hordes version of Mercenaries.

>>48127897
>How drastically do the warcasters or warlocks influence stuff?

Radically.

Each has a separate spell list and feat (feat being a super-spell that can be done once per game), with each caster's optimal army being built around both. Even with the same models (or mostly the same models) on the table, two different casters will usually play the same list differently.

Buffing (and debuffing) is a huge thing in the game, and if anything gotten bigger with the new edition reducing the ways buffs can be stripped.

>>48123573
>you get a free charge against the enemy
How?

>>48124601
>1 inch thresher
Might as well just use the three initials.

>>48123747
>So we are in agreement that Rhinodon is better than Slayer then?
What level of stupidity does it take to arrive at that conclusion?

>>48125225
Let's do it the other way around. You make a non-Rasheth Skorne list and I'll tell you why it sucks.

>people are complaining that beasts are capped at fury 3
>warjacks have always been capped at focus 3
lolwut

>>48126396
I'm just talking about output, I dont know of anything else thats cheap with 3 initials. The point it 4 fury heavies with equal initials have more output than jacks

What are absolute must-have warjacks for Menoth this edition? I have the new starter box set and a Choir, I'm not sure what else to buy at this point.

Some people are telling me to invest in Idrians over Exemplar. Is that bogus advice?

>>48129187
Read their stat cards.

File: Big_O_-_Armor.jpg (128KB, 635x478px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 635x478px

>>48129229
I really like the look of the Vigilant. The Big O is a hard-to-shoot-down piece of mobile cover. Solid for the price. Not necessarily a must have, but very cool IMO.

>>48129273
>warbeasts have higher speed, higher defensive stats, give a spell to their casters, and more initial attacks
ok

>>48128191
>Known for its players constantly complaining.

At least they've got a reason now. Playerbase got the faction they deserve.

Currently 5-2 as Skorne at my LGS in Mk3. Since this is my blog and you care about my opinions, I'll review how the stuff I used played today.

>(Makeda 1) Archdomina Makeda [+29]
Her spells are solid, that's all. Carnage is still good, and since I was just sitting her still and popping Carnage, I found room to cast Subjugation of Will which actually saved my Willbreaker.
> - Molik Karn [20]
Still pulls off bullshit honestly.
> - Titan Gladiator [14]
Amazing beatstick still. Threw a Croak Hunter at Viktor Pendrake before and killed both. Shit was cash.
> - Basilisk Krea [7]
Immunity to blast damage is VERY good, and the increased bubble lets you shield way more than you think.
> - Agonizer [7]
Didn't do much today but in general this thing is so good.
>Cataphract Cetrati (max) [20]
> - Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
With an Agonizer nearby these guys just don't die now. Being Steady also means they 1) shield your warlock from knockdown bullshit, and 2) can keep rolling tough from a Willbreaker.
>Nihilators (max) [15]
Still the best suicidal brawlers we have.
>Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Honestly you don't need more than a min unit until later in the game, so I wouldn't bother taking more than a min at all.
>Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
It's still dumb being able to drop a 5" smoke cloud anywhere.
>Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Giving a unit tough is good, but not as good as I'd like it to be. Puppet Master is still good, extending control range is still good.
>Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Took out half a unit of Croak Raiders turn 1 just before. Don't really need to say more. 13" MAT8 thresher with precision. It's the stuff nightmares are made of.

>>48130250
Are you high?

>>48130250
Read the mkiii cards you idiot

>>48130284

try playing against some good players instead. If you're up against people that will group their croak raiders in front of a PGMT no wonder you are winning games

>>48130300
>>48130345
>still superior
ok

>>48127484
Bless you.

Im getting into the game and ive decided on Legion. What units are worth getting and which Warcaster is noob friendly? Aiming to go straight for 75pt (Thats standard right?) list.

>>48127484
I can second these requests,as well as...Prime and Primal I guess?

>>48131258
What kind of list are you looking for? For example you could go for Absylonia2+AllTheBeasts or Bethayne+CombinedArms for example.

>the same faggot on the facebook minions group has asked about pure gator lists over three times already
Jesus christ what a fucking retard. People've told him again and again what he could run (which, even retards could easily make lists - drop posses, add more warbeasts. Mk3 minions easy) yet he doesn't listen and just bitches that PP gave minions the option to take pigs and how it made his faction somehow less competitive. To have more options.

What the fuck.

>>48130250
Khador jack: mat 7, 2 attacks, 10/20, spd 4, 12 points
Titan: mat 6, 3 attacks, 10/19, spd 4, 14 points

Yeah the titan has rush, but as a khador player I can tell you that half the fucking casters in faction have spells or abilities that speed jacks up, while skorne is mainly just leaning on Rush and that's about it.

>>48131258
Just get a battlebox and play against some people at your LGS with 0 point lists. After that look at getting a unit and a solo or two. I'm sure people won't mind playing smaller point games with you while you build up your army.

>>48125585
menoth ad-raza jackspam

>>48131623
How viable is Amon Jackspam? Plenty of infantry can take out 'jacks anymore.

>>48124963
Nah it is a rattle can red brown primer I really like. Airbrush is the next big purchase.

So how do you actually counter jackspam in this game? Like, say my Khador opponent brought 7 Juggernauts and some support for them. How could a given faction beat that?

>>48132818
You can barely take any units anymore now that warjack points take such a large cut of the points allocation. PP even forced armies whose jacks suck shit, like Cryx, to handicap themselves by taking a large amount of jacks.

>>48133417
A large amount meaning "two".

Every faction is perfectly capable of taking 2 heavies and filling up their WJ points.

>>48131230
Most welcome anon. I am about 7 chapters in right now and I am thoroughly enjoying the ride so far.
The Vlad vs Vinter fight is awesome.

>>48133417
>armies whose jacks suck shit, like Cryx

>laughingSeetherandDeathjack.jpg

>>48133360
kill the caster
win by scenario

>>48127484 >>48131230 >>48131304
Did some digging and found this. Still need Wild Adventure though.

http://www105.zippyshare.com/v/prCaH3AL/file.html

>>48134085

>Play LineBreaker
>Against Iron Flesh Butcher
>Player is not a retard

So now what.

>>48133360
Throws (preferably two hand) throwing a jack onto another jack will almost always hit
Slams (Especially if you can slam a heavy into another heavy or over some lights)
Disruption
High Def (jacks have average to low mat/rat)

Knockdown
Continuous effects
Shakable effects
Anything to hamstring his focus efficiency.

Backlash/feedback

>>48134145
>>Against Iron Flesh Butcher
Very killable

>>48134085
>kill the caster
Nigger's being flanked by heavies.
>win by scenario
Nigger's got heavies on the point.

There is no magical solution to MAT7 PS19 ARM20 fucknuggets sat on the control point is the problem I'm seeing. Infantry is only good against infantry now, so not bringing infantry makes your opponent's infantry dead points, and likewise if your opponent doesn't have infantry, your own infantry is useless. Contest all you like, you won't kill the jacks.

>>48134165
>>48134145
Legitimate retards overreacting to simple meta shifts.

>>48134165
>Nigger's being flanked by heavies.
Throw or slam a heavy onto that heavy and knock down the two heavies and the caster with respectable damage potential on the caster.

>Nigger's got heavies on the point.
Throw or slam that nigger off the point.

>>48133360

Honestly Khador jacks really aren't that durable considering there's only one battlegroup wide Armour buff in the faction, and it's a feat. If you bring any sort of ARM debuff then even POW 10 infantry start hurting when they charge.

I know it's hard to chew through all those boxes when Juggernauts are so cheap though. I think gunlines are ultimately going to curb these sorts of lists quite a bit. Ossyan would tear seven juggernauts apart.

>>48133360
Mother from Convergence does it pretty trivially.

Syntherion would come out ahead as well, really.

How much have faction dynamics changed with the switch to Mk 3?

>>48134165
WM infantry still straight up smokes jacks, same as it did in MK2

>>48134227
>I think gunlines are ultimately going to curb these sorts of lists quite a bit
As a Skorne player that isn't really an option. Am I just forced to buy Dominar Rasheth and use him when my opponent is playing Khador?

>>48133360

I played a harkevich shooting jack spam list and was utterly destroyed by a combined arms skorne list.

Jack spam is trash unless you have an incredibly good gimmick behind it.

>>48134293
>As a Skorne player
Time to switch factions

>>48134227
Battlegroup wide? It's the only warjack armor buff, period. And it only applies if you are engaging an enemy model. Which means it does nothing vs shooting or vs opponents with reach, or if you knock the warjack down first.

Most everyone else is able to put on direct buffs to put stuff at higher durability than khador jacks.

>>48134293
Rasheth is about the only viable caster in skorne anon. Better grab some venators and a cannoneer, because good fucking luck delivering skorne melee in mk3.

>>48134250

It varies from faction to faction. I know a lot of Legion players who have to make barely any new purchases besides a Hellmouth or two. I play Skorne and have bought a considerable amount to adapt to new changes(granted I also found a lot of stuff on sale at stores so it was a win win for me), but otherwise I'm pretty content with most of my old models except for cataphracts.

From what I understand Cryx and Trollbloods seem to have had the most drastic change from what they were, and a big complaint for each is how much they have to buy or sell in order to adapt.

I think that's the core of the problem with people who think their faction is "unplayable". They aren't able to copy and paste over their old lists and are forced to buy things they think they can't afford or don't necessarily want. It's shitty, but that's always going to be the case with any edition change.

>>48134312
I'm yet to have trouble delivering Nihilators and my Cetrati get there eventually. I get the impression you haven't played a game of Skorne in Mk3.

>>48134355
I've played Rasheth, Makeda3, Zaal1, and Zaal2. I'll be running Skorne for the narrative league in September, but Khador for anything that actually matters.

>>48134355
>you haven't played a game of X in Mk3.
This applies to most complainers desu.

>>48134195
>THROW
>SLAM
>THROW
>SLAM

Our mangled metal matches always turn into Warmachine Wrestling Foundation. We even do some commentary for the other player.

>Oh, here comes Hydra! He's not liking how that Slayer treated his amigo Griffin. Ooooh there's the classic 1-2-grab! And he's making a shot for that Elusive Cankerworm! From doooowntown!
>And Deathjack is steaming up the court! Deathtrain has no breaks as he give the Hydra the horns! OOooh and right into two lights! What chaos!

File: 1344386546320.jpg (41KB, 438x352px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48134312
>Battlegroup wide? It's the only warjack armor buff, period. And it only applies if you are engaging an enemy model. Which means it does nothing vs shooting or vs opponents with reach, or if you knock the warjack down first.

I was referring to Harkevich, but I did forget about the new warcaster anyway.

>>48134293

>As a Skorne player that isn't really an option. Am I just forced to buy Dominar Rasheth and use him when my opponent is playing Khador?

Xekaar is also a decent option to build a gunline around. You could also take Naaresh and outbrick them, or take Xerxis1 and have dirt cheap models like Karax taking out systems. But yea, no, we're "forcing" you to play Rasheth... who is also fucking fun to play so...

>>48134436
I forgot that Hark's feat was an arm buff. So that's two arm buffs in faction.

>>48134436
Rasheth is better at cracking armour than anyone else in Skorne. Mortality is amazing, but the DEF reduction is kinda pointless against heavies. Beyond that, Xekaar doesn't have much going for him.

>>48134522

The point is that he's not your ONLY option and no one is forcing anyone to play Rasheth. If you consider him the best option then why not just get him? Did you really think you wouldn't have to make any new purchases for Mk3 if you weren't a faction completionist?

>>48134522
Skorne is a mat 6 faction, going from needing 6s to needing 4s on a lot of stuff is good. Skorne beasts need to boost to hit circle beasts.

>>48134581
I was expecting to need to build more rounded lists, not desperately try and counter 12 point heavies that blow my 14 point heavies out of the water.

File: guldo.jpg (27KB, 634x333px)

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>people complaining about beasts
>mfw minion beasts got awesome

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?256076-The-Gang-Knockdown-problem&p=3600587&viewfull=1#post3600587

>>48134892
just keep making threads about it everyone should
That shit needs to be changed

>>48134179

Linebreaker was *never* ok.

With any kind of increase in viability of the ranged game, it is that much more not ok.

Ranged game got improved *a lot*, anon.

>>48134355

Haven't had your cherry popped, I see.

When it happens, you'll know. And understand.

>>48135039
>Ranged game got improved *a lot*
No it hasn't.
With things like increased terrain clutter in the middle of the field, rubble, roaming clouds, as well as lots of shield guard options and such, it isn't as ridiculous as most complainers make it out to be.
You're just overreacting to it.

Though Linebreaker is indeed bullshit, and does indeed force a shitty ranged situation.

>>48134159

>Iron flesh butcher camp
>Behind 6+ Juggernauts
>And a wardog
>very killable

Tell me in a non-live scenario, against an opponent that isn't a simpleton how he is very killable. Go ahead.

>>48135314
TK the jacks out of the way. Shoot him with Eiryss. Shoot him to death with jacks.
Literally the easiest thing in the world.

How do I into shading

>>48132818
Very.

You put Enlivens on the jacks furthest forward, and you choose to take the enliven move after the infantry charges your jack, so any models after the first don't get their attacks and then jam up any other infantry.

Your jacks are difficult to jam because they all have Parry (due to Field Marshal on Amon), and can just trample over small bases anyway.

>>48135314
Knock down the jacks blocking LOS, shoot butcher with jacks. It's not a conga line of 6 juggernauts standing in a row in the exact path of all of your shooting.

>>48135362
Paint base color.
Water down darker color.
Apply watered down darker color to recesses.
Reapply base color to fix parts that shouldn't be shaded
water down brighter color
highlight edges.
DO NOT EDGE HIGHLIGHT YOU 40K FAGGOT

>>48135354
>>48135389

Again, let's assume he's not a fucking idiot.

It's a world of premeasuring. Let's assume he's not going to allow you to get Eiryss within range unless he has a shield guard in his list.

And yeah idiot, everyone has TK. Entire factions don't have TK. Not everyone plays Cygnar anon.

And what Jacks are going to shoot him to death, assuming he isn't an idiot and gets Eiryss? What jacks?

>>48134118
Oh my Dragonfather,thanks,I've been waiting for these since they appeared.Now only gotta wait till someone gets a copy of the primes.
>>48133722
Heh,I guess I finally gotta catch up with the fluff to enjoy this the right way,I've read most of everything but only in a half-assed manner,as usual lol

>>48135439
Retribution jacks.
If you claim that he can never get shot from Eiryss due to premeasuring, then we can claim we'll never get charged by jacks due to premeasuring. You're being retarded. Like literally brain dead.

>>48135394

... how do you highlight edges without edge highlighting?

>>48135439

It's impossible to discuss this with you because you're dismissing any ideal scenario the opposing player could have yet assume that the Butcher player is playing optimally.

You're right, Butcher1 with 6 juggernauts is nearly impossible to beat. Can we all move on now?

>>48135497
by blending. Edge highlighting is some shitty gw technique where they just paint a bright color on edges to make them pop for photographs.

>>48135474

Because putting a caster in threat range of a shit load of shooting in a world of pre measuring is the same as putting pressure in a scenario zone with Jacks.

You can literally tell you just theory hammer this shit on the internet and hardly ever play.

>>48135505
Ok, tell me how you trivially kill Butcher with shooting if he's on a camp and Iron Flesh. Because if you can trivially kill that caster as easily as you and the other retard are saying, then with Reinholdt and Eiryss existing, literally every game should be caster kill.

Why isn't every game like that? Do you actually play the game or just post on PP forums all day?

>>48135559
You're the one that doesn't actually play the game. If you did you'd know pre-measuring didn't actually change it for anyone intelligent.

>>48135528

Ooh okay. I was doing that before I just didn't know it was called blending.

Any new pics of sculpts/leaked art and whatnot?

>>48135583

>He's actually suggesting pre-measuring didn't change the game for anyone intelligent

Ok, that statement without a doubt, while discussing ranged threats in Warmachine show you have no fucking clue about Mk III and haven't really played much. Moving on and leaving you to your online theorymachine games.

>>48135600
....what's the difference between blending and edge highlighting?

Is one just the other with a brighter color and no attempt to mix the two?

>>48135623
Yeah man, can't wait to see Butcher ruling all the tournaments. You're the smartest.

>>48135559

First off, I never claimed or agreed that Butcher is "trivial" to kill, so pause your tantrum for a second. It's perfectly reasonable to say that he is difficult to kill, especially on full camp with his ARM buff on himself(even though it's kind of dumb to assume he's just camping every turn). What's not reasonable is the retarded shouting match where your biggest argument is "NUH UH".

You gave your opponent a scenario, and someone outlined how they would go across doing it. Then you say that it could never happen because you could just premeasure to stay out of any threat range. Well la-dee-fucking-dah, I guess assassinations are just a thing of the past now that we can all premeasure! It's essentially a 4th graders argument.

>"I would do this"
>"NUH UH YOU CAN'T BECAUSE I'M NOT AN IDIOT AND WOULD ALWAYS BE OUT OF THREAT RANGES, AND CAMPING FULL, AND HAVE IRON FLESH UP, AND BEING BLOCKED LOS BY MY BATTLEGROUP".

Regardless of how "right" you would be, you still just come across as a massive mouth breathing neckbeard with a severe lack of any social skills.

>>48135652

And this is where the retard moves the goalposts. Like clockwork, you autists.

Go back and see where I ever said that. I didn't.

Now get back to the PP forums and start mocking up some more games anon, you probably haven't got your theory hammer in today yet.

>>48135702

>Assuming someone will either priority Eiryss or save a Shield Guard for her shot in this edition, while playing Linebreaker is making up perfect scenarios.

Again, I'm expecting a reasonably competent opponent anon. Not an idiot.

>>48135652

Different anon, in light of the "pre-measuring changed nothing" in a ranged game debate, I vouch that you are clearly a troll or a retard.

>>48135814

Shield Guards are not unstoppable. If they were then you would never hear about Eiryss getting a shot off on enemy casters.

This is the issue, you're expecting a reasonably competent opponent but then your expectations for the opposing players are already set to fail. Someone could tell you any one of a hundred ways they would try to kill Butcher in this list with their respective faction and you would have some perfect counter to the argument and your fall back is always "I'm expecting a reasonably competent opponent".

>>48135882

No anon, I'm not making up perfect scenarios.

The argument put forth was a scenario where Butcher would not get killed. Period. Unless the opponent was an idiot.

Unless you really think someone can deliver an Eiryss shot, on a Linebreaker scenario, plus enough ranged shots, over the heads of however many Juggernauts, while not getting in melee, getting line of sight, all hitting and doing enough damage to him.

I'm not being unrealistic. Expecting that to happen is unrealistic.

90% of the time, when there are two good players, with experience, playing against each other...and I mean top level play, caster kill is because someone just really really fucked up or is really really desperate.

Looking to get back into Retribution after selling my stuff off last year for bills. I'm more of a hobby kind of guy as I tend to suck at tactics, but I do still want to play some games at some point.

Should I bother trying to track down an All-in-One box? They're kinda hard to come by at this point, but I do have a good lead on one if it's actually worth it to pick up, as opposed to just a battlebox and kits.

>>48136209
I'd say the all-in-one is pretty good if you want to stick with houseguard. Dawnguard units have gotten even better in Mk3 while houseguard have stayed mostly the same (but they're still good)

Ret light jacks god a big boost so you'll be wanting to pick up a few of those, but the two heavy kits that the all in one comes with will also see lots of use.

Of course just as a pure 'deal' the all in one is a great value as just the two units would run you $100 MSRP.

>>48136209
If you can get it for MSRP, it's a really good deal, especially since the Retribution boxes seem to be one of the harder ones to find.

Good things in skorne:

Rasheth, sentry with reatliaton up under feat turn in scenario. Arm 23 heavy that hit's back at effective mat8, pow 18.

Rasheth, blood mark makes slingers ranfed pow 12 weapon masters against heavies.

Naaresh can upkeep at least one spell for free with blood trade and regen. Consider nu lamentstion.

Makeda3's hand of death spell no longer let's your feat get shut down by self sac etc.

Makeda3 also brings 2 cheap shield guards. Bring orin, sentries, full cataphract w/UA and Willbreaker for max brick. Also agonizer.

>>48137490
Makeda2 can stay death and storm rager the AG solo, who can buy attacks with souls.

Naaresh gets to arm 22 with flagellation and spiny growth.

Naaresh can make the hydra def 14 versus shooting (don't actually do this, it's just cute)

Rasheth gunline stronk. Reivers, slingers, croak raiders, incindiarii.

is there any lowdown on the MK3 tier lists?

>Mk2 theme lists give strong boosts in army final power
>Frustratingly restrictive and give rise to cookie cutter peak power lists
>Mk3 Theme lists supposed to be less restrictive
>Cephalyx Theme list example in Prime
>8 free points
>Hyper-Aggressive on all monstrosities
>One unit will get ambush
>If other theme lists are anywhere close to this they will be a huge impact on an army's final power level
>Theme lists in December
>Have to wait another half a year to get the the other half of the game

Fucking come on PP.

>>48137616
>>48137644
>Theme list bitching hive mind

>>48137616
Play ceph.
Write to Santa.

>>48137644
Yeah... the roll-out of Mk. 3 has quite possibly been the worst thing PP has done with the possible exception of the Tactics debacle and the Monsterpocalypse silence.

I think they've been generally overwhelmed for a little while but don't seem to be trying to slow down and catch their breath on anything. I don't know.

>>48137616
December.

>>48137644
>>48137616
Theme lists are slated for your command book. So for example, Trollbloods will be receiving their Command book in Dec., so they'll be getting access to some theme lists. Other factions are receiving their command books later depending on size/release scheduale, so it might be say March to April before they receive their tier lists.

>>48134522
>but the DEF reduction is kinda pointless against heavies
So its not a problem that gladiators got their DEF reduced then, right?

So I've been out of warmachine for a few years, decided to hop back in after scoring some cheap retribution at an auction. Considering I have:
>Sentinels + UA
>Myrmidon Chassis Kit + discordia upgrade
>mage hunter assassin
>old retribution starter
>new retribution starter

What would be a good way to expand my list to 75 points for Heylinna? I know arcanists are a must and I'll be grabbing a couple on my next pay but from there I'm at a loss

Also what the fuck is up with that new material they used in the new starters? It's awful

Has Privateer fully switched over to plastic yet? It's 2016, I don't wanna deal with metal models

>>48138130
Id skip the old starter in favor of the new one.

Is essentially the same for 10 dollars cheaper and the only way to get the new warcaster for now.

Sentinels is a phenomenal unit, id recommend getting them after the arcanists

>>48138130
A second unit of Sentinels, Sylys, more Shyeel jack kits (Manticore/Phoenix/Hydra), and maybe one Vyre jack kit.

>>48138222
The stuff I listed is the lot I won, excluding the new starter. Got it all for ~$70cad (sans the new starter set) since they were lacking mkii cards, a couple bases and retribution is not popular at my store.

>>48138406
I ended up making one of each shyeel jack using what I have, still have the discordia kit untouched. Is there a specific jack I should get a second of, or should I make it discordia? Or should I ignore it unless I intend to get it's caster?

And I'll definitely be getting some vyre Jacks. I love the look of the sphinx and daemon.

And are sentinels good enough to get two squads of even if I don't plan to get vyros anytime soon?

Thanks for the help as well

>>48134350
As a troll player the hard thing to swallow (wallet-wise) has been the theme lists. Everyone is hoping that all those runeshapers and light beasts will still find homes in tiers.

Other than that I've just had to pick up and magnetize one more heavy kit. I want Rok and Wrong Eye + snap jaw, but they aren't necessities yet.

On the other hand, I'm not rocking gunny

>>48133556
Dj+a node. I never really used him in mkii but now that hes basically free, he finds his way into more and more lists.

>>48133417
Its not that bad. I've been expiramenting with a few pure jack lists with some sucess.
And you are a fool if you think the cryx weapon master* spam is dead. Because the dirty thirty lives on in my scaverous list

So two questions, One now that Cylena Raefyll is now a retribution partisian are they a better choice to take with Thyron over MHSF? And Magister Helynna, is Imperatus or Discordia worth taking with her in a two list pair or should they be put in a more offensive caster/ their bond caster?

>>48137490
>>48137578

Good things in Skorne continued:

Makeda3: The Grievous Wounds portion of Hand of Death applies to ranged weapons.

Paingiver Taskmaster+Brigands: Tough+Steady for fun times. +2 STR on turns you charge makes them MAT 8 POW 14s against their Prey target in melee. This is before any caster debuffs such as Mortality or Blood Mark.

Makeda2: Apply Tough on a unit with the Willbreaker. On feat turn they can't be knocked down and continue to roll Tough checks, use Stay Death to keep any model you REALLY want alive(like a contesting model).

Basic Titans are legit. Titan Gladiator remained almost exactly the same, which is fantastic in an edition that tried to tone down everything across the board. Titan Sentry is now MAT 6, doesn't care about the Def or Fury nerf, and gained Steady, Shield Guard, and buffed Brace for Impact. Cannoneer has a threat range of 20" with an AOE 4" gun without the need of any support models, also got bumped up to MAT 6 and ARM 19.

Paingiver Bloodrunners are fantastic for their cost. By themselves they outthreat SPD 6 models with 2" reach. They work great as Dark Rituals targets for Rasheth because of Reposition[3"].

Orin Midwinter, holy fuck.

File: 1446690151818s.jpg (3KB, 118x125px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48134849
Yeah, I think playing Farrow is somehow more of a pleasant experience compared to my trolls.

WTF.

So I've got some menoth models that I've picked up over time with some vague idea of making them a side faction. Been thinking of an amon list for mk3. Any thought on this?

Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points

http://conflictchamber.com/#b21be-0jgdgd9k69090gbW262323250N1t1t

(Amon 1) High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza [+29]
- Crusader [10]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
- Purifier [8]
- Hand of Judgment [18]
- Vigilant [9]
- Castigator [12]
- Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan [4]
The Covenant of Menoth [4]
Vassal of Menoth [3]
Vassal of Menoth [3]
Wrack [1]
Exemplar Errants (min) [10]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]

>>48134145
I drop Kaelyssa, Rahn, or Ossyan. Done.

Does any1 have url witth mk3 cards?

>>48139644
yes

>>48137960
>So its not a problem that gladiators got their DEF reduced then, right?
That was never a problem. The faction ahs so many problems, but DEF10 titans is not one of them.

>>48139908
Can you please post it?

>>48140085
DEF10 Titans is a pretty big nerf.

>>48111268
so i am seeing some negative comments here.

for someone that has not followed mkIII at all but is kinda interested in warmachine, because "WARMACHINES". what happened?

>>48112165
>>48112069

so the thing is GW has done nothing with the handbook. the entire thing was created by 4 independent tournament scenes from across the globe that sat together and looked at each others point system and then from that came this handbook.

I have great hopes, since GW was literally like
>okay guys we dont know wtf where doing so where gonna stay out of this one.

>>48140611
Hordes factions in general have received sweeping changes to their beasts and most of it is negative

>>48140689
what if i only care about "WARMACHINES"

>>48140709
Then you're fine and will probably have a grand ol' time.

>>48138197
I'm sorry missie, but here at WARMACHINE we are used to using only the hardest and best at holding detail materials.

>>48140173
>DEF10 Titans is a pretty big nerf.
It's a minor nerf. The real problems are stuff like the Krea. For example if we had the option of having our heavies go to ARM21 against shooting the def reduction wouldn't be so bad.

>>48135583
>pre-measuring didn't actually change it for anyone intelligent
So knowing with 100% accuracy whether or not you/your opponent have/has sufficient range/movement to do a certain thing does not benefit a smart player?

>>48140930
You do realize that a drop from DEF12 to 10 is like a 20% increase in the hits you take, right?

When you're talking about MAT6-7 heavies hitting your titans, the drop is the difference between a live or dead titan on average dice.

>>48140961
I already knew that shit, or at least had an incredibly good idea.

The difference is now I don't have to badger my opponent for every measurement he makes and I don't have to do pain in the ass trig in my head.

generals handbook has killed this game completely. WMH is dead. the knight model was a big blow to PP and now this is just brutal. have fun playing WMH at that one shop in settle that still does.. this game is homebrew teir now.

>>48141408
Why post a troll in an almost dead threat in the middle of the night when practically no one is around?

>>48141521
Self-trolling. A new trend among double-retards.

>>48113110
your tears are delicious

>>48114084
ouch that's a bitch.

>Khador is OP

>>48119205
So much bandwagon.

>>48124211
reckoners? Don't you mean marshalled Redeemers?

>>48114568
>>48114594
>>48114613
I know it's late but I hope you see this; AK interactive pigments are a great way to pull hard edged-blends together into a single gradient.