/btg/ - BattleTech General

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>playing AtB game
>this happens

Did I just encounter the most FWL lance ever to be randomly generated?

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First for Mad Dogs

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>>48091948

>>48091952
spritebro, could you create an album with all your sprites? I think I have missed many of them

>>48091888
/btg/, I'm ashamed of you. No holding of Butte's? For shame.

>>48092125
no
today we are follying McEvedy

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>>48091948
Nice. I've had a few occurrences of this kind, here's one where the Dracs decide to Drac harder.

Also, why are those pilots all Unnamed?

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>>48092071
The difference in quality between my earlier and more current stuff causes me great tension. This is by no means complete or even very good but, Class-of-3025-Plus.7z: a.pomf.cat/rnoplf.7z

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So, we have this for getting IS players with the intro box started.

What would be some interesting and decently balanced Clanner forces to take up against Invasion-era lances from this list?

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>>48093037
And a selection of lightly vignetted camouflage for optimal viewing pleasure. Metal Gear.7z: a.pomf.cat/armxyp.7z

>>48093096
That's a big can of worms right there.

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I always preferred Timber Wolf to the IS reporting name, even though the latter appears to now be common usage. Am I alone in this?

>>48093323
No, but I do it because I play a lot of Clan forces where the Clan name is (quite obviously) the preferred nomenclature.

Also the Clan names have been getting a bit more exposure lately thanks to MWO using them instead of the reporting names.

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BattleTech vs Warhammer 40k
Specifically Inner Sphere mixed unit armies vs a combined Imperial military (Imperial Legion, Space Marines, Titan Legions).
Aside from the fluff and deepest lore how this play out?
For visual representation would Epic be close to BT scale?
To compare wildly incompatible stats would it be easier to one side to the other's rule set? BT to 40k, or 40 to BT?
If we use Epic as 40k's baseline should we use Alpha Strike for BT's baseline?
IS infantry vs Imperial Legion
Battle Armor vs Space Marines
Tanks and Hovercraft vs Other... Tanks and Land Speeders
VTOLs and Aerospace fighters vs Gunships and Thunderhawks
Battlemechs vs Sentinels, Knights, and Titans

>>48093323
I usually talk about them using the Clan names, perhaps because my first exposure to the Clans was Mechwarrior 2 and the 'Mech labs' voice.

GBL still has the best one. "Dire Wolf. Kodiak. STONE RHINO."

>>48093315
>big can of worms

Yeah, but I've got new players seriously interested in both IS and Clan forces and want to be able to have them both play decently.
It wouldn't have to be perfect forces by any stretch of the imagination, but something where both sides can have fun and have nice tactical choices presented to them would be nice.

>>48093096
>What would be some interesting and decently balanced Clanner forces to take up against Invasion-era lances from this list?

There aren't. Clan Stars will wipe the floor with IS lances. I don't even think you can even build a reasonable 5-Mech Star at 6000 BV.

In 3050, a heavy/assault Clan Star is a match for a company. That IS company will match up with a binary of Clan lights. At the lance level, you can kill whole IS lances with individual Clan heavy mechs if you drive hem well. A single Timber Wolf A with a Clan veteran pilot can kill any one of those IS lances (though the sheer weight of armor in the Lyran lance will probably give it the most trouble).

>>48093323
I was introduced to almost all clan mechs by their reporting names, but over time I've started using the clan names more and more.
The easiest to get used to were Hellbringer, Summoner, and Mad Dog. I'm slowly starting to call it the Timber Wolf instead of Mad Cat.

>>48093583
I don't necessarily mean a full star, since that would obviously be overkill.

Something like a 2-mech Clan force would be fine.

>>48093578

Clan and IS forces at the Lance/Star maneuver level are EXTREMELY hard to balance. You certainly wouldn't be able to do the balanced, even spread across the weight classes that I did in that document and get even close to keeping it under 6000 BV2, and putting appropriate Clan pilots (3/4) into all the machines will make things even worse.

A three-Mech Clan unit is likely going to be your best bet, with one unit each from Light, Medium, and Heavy classes. And even then you're going to have a problem. As an example, here's a reasonably flavorful Jade Falcon 3-Mech group with correct G/P scores.

>Clan Jade Falcon
Kit Fox S (3/4) - 1852 BV2
Stormcrow C (3/4) - 2596 BV2
Summoner Prime (3/4) - 3171 BV2
TOTAL: 7,619 BV2

If you drop the Stormcrow and the Summoner BOTH to only 4/5 pilots, you end up with a total BV2 of 6,031, which is in the allowable range to go against the 3050-era Introbox forces. But a force that looks like:

Kit Fox S (3/4)
Stormcrow C (4/5)
Summoner Prime (4/5)

...is going to look awfully anemic next to the IS lances, and especially for new players is going to have a hard time doing well (and forget about winning), largely because they're complete glass cannons.

IS v Clan balance tends to work better once you get to company level games. If the IS player is using all IntroTech, throwing a Star against a balanced company (1 light, 1 medium, 1 heavy lance) is fair. If the IS player is using Clan Invasion TW-era Tech, a binary vs a company is usually better matchup.

Sorry for not being able to be more help.

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>>48093419
We've been fucking around with that question since /btg/ was a weekly holiday on /m/, dude.
Loosely:
• Space Marine = Elemental, IG = grunt infantry from any of the Successor States. Or the Periphery, really.
• BT FTL is better, safer, and faster than IoM.
• IoM occupies almost 10 times the territory and has vastly superior manufacturing capability, but no capacity for innovation.

BT armor is likely better than IoM's, but IoM has Void Shields on the biggest shit, and bigger overall units (a Warhound Titan is about the same size and capability as a BT Heavy, a Dreadknight is about the same as a super-heavy Proto, a Knight is a Light, etc.).

BT forces could concentrate force faster, but have a largely inferior navy (the Leviathans are about the only things an IN commander would consider a "cruiser", and they don't have shields). BT does have shtiloads of nukes and biochem and a distinct willingness to use them against an existential threat like the Imperium, as well as superior coordination and FTL comms, but in a total war they'd get BTFO with a sandpaper condom. They'd probably win quite a few early battles and do massive damage to the IoM, however, and if we assume the Imperium has its usual coterie of pressures from outside as well as trying to prosecute a war against the BT verse they'd probably just wind up declaring the sector Perdita and moving on.

>>48093775
>Space Marine = Elemental
Bruh, Elementals are incredibly powerful compared to Space Marines.

>>48093842
>>48093775
There's a thread for this argument, take it over there. Let's not invite this firestorm into the enjoyably calm waters of /btg/.

>>48093842
>Elemental
>Firepower of a Devastator
>Mobility of an Assault
>Armor of a Terminator
>Size of a Centurion

>>48093884
But no one is posting in it. And you guys always seem more chill than 40kids.

>>48093965
>And you guys always seem more chill than 40kids.
Yes, which is why we want to avoid bringing 40kids into the thread

>>48079425
>>48092684
So? The argument is still valid.

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>>48093775
>Loosely:
>• Space Marine = Elemental, IG = grunt infantry from any of the Successor States. Or the Periphery, really.
IG grunts are better armored than your average successor state grunt (those with divisor 2 armor are equal), though that's more damning the later than praising the former. An elemental in armor is higher up than a smurf, though. Basically a terminator with even more armor, a multilaser instead of a storm bolter (plus the missile launchers), and with the mobility of an assault marine.

>• IoM occupies almost 10 times the territory and has vastly superior manufacturing capability, but no capacity for innovation.
Either you're really overestimating the size of the IS, or really underestimating the size of the IOM. The red dot here is the IS. The IOM controls most of the galaxy. The IOM has 10,000 times the territory, and both are on average the same on habitable planet density and manufacturing/population per planet (Though the IOM has much larger variance in those numbers).

Overall, 40K as a whole wins, but it's going to be very, very bloody if they fight on the ground. 40k just plain outguns and outmasses BT in space, unless you're throwing the SLDF at them.

>>48094333
>(Though the IOM has much larger variance in those numbers).

Yeah, there's much fewer incidences of true legit feralism and literal Stone Age/medieval tech level regression. Even the "feudal" planets in BT that actually do still have castles and shit tend to also have an average tech level closer to the 19th century at WORST.

Hey, now that Campaign Operations is out, how about a little comparison/test thing?
Say six of us each pick one of the unit generation systems, from the original MHB to CO, and we create six merc units, and see what they look like compared to one another

>>48093775
>>48094333
How many Lyran scout lances would it take to bring down a titan?

>>48094617
Depends how accurate the orbital insertions are.

>>48094333

>The IOM controls most of the galaxy

Not even most.

They're just said to be the most powerful faction currently and have close to a million worlds where the Inner Sphere is probably only a few thousand at the most.

>>48094617

>How many Lyran scout lances would it take to bring down a titan?

Depends on what kind of Titan and what power or race it belongs to.

>>48094692
Imperator Titan

>>48094677
It LOOKS like most on a map, but the overwhelming majority of the Imperium's "territory" is empty, uncontrolled space with entire alien empires crammed in the spots no men tread.

>>48094702

Quite a few given Titans have a longer range than most Inner Sphere mechs.

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Reposting this in the new thread, as requested.

Since an ATOW-compliant unit CO is *hugely* important for starting up a force (especially a merc force) in Campaign Companion, and full-on ATOW characters are ludicrously time-consuming to generate using either the Lifepath or the Free XP system, I drafted out a "Quick ATOW Unit CO Generator" last night.

Basically it works like this:
1) Choose one of the 3 Attribute Fields and add +1 to any 2 (or +2 to one) attribute(s).

2) Choose one of the 6 Trait Groups, and add 3 more TP of positive Traits of your choice. You can increase a negative trait by 1 (or choose a new one) in order to get a 4th TP, and you can reduce yourself to a Medium Mech in order to get 1 more bonus TP.

3) You get each of the 3 groups of Field Skills. For each field, choose one of the 3 skill point arrays and apply them.

4) You get one group of miscellaneous skills. Choose one groups and apply the relevant listed point modifiers from that array to your miscellaneous skills.

Done.

I'd really appreciate more sets of eyes looking at it and seeing if any of the Skill or Attribute Arrays or Trait Groups are notably over- or under-powered, or if anybody has any good ideas or concepts which I'm missing.

My current planned revision is to include a rule to allow for the purchase of a single SPA for the character by exchanging 1 attribute point, 1 "free" TP, or 4 skill points to pay for an SPA which you otherwise qualify for. If anyone has any other further commentary, I'd love to look it over before I make this into a nicer-looking PDF.

Some relevant commentary from last night: >>48086913

>>48094834
Most BT weapons are to-the-horizon though.

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>>48094617
Depends on how fast you throw them.

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>>48094613
okay, let's do it
roll 1d3 for force type
>1 government
>2 merc
>3 pirate

Rolled 3 (1d3)

>>48094892
ops, I forgot to actually roll the dice

>>48093419

Battletech - medium hard science, based on real technology plus a sprinkling of fantasy rules to make giant robots viable, and a whole bunch of wonky rules that are best ignored if you want to compare it to anything else, like weapon range and ammo bins.

Warhammer 40k - total space fantasy powered by rule of cool, pixie dust and ignoring every law of physics imaginable, with most units being insanely impractical no matter what assumptions you make.

Yeah, lets not compare the two.

>>48094702
An imperator titan would be basically invincable, not only due to its ceramite armor but also is void shields. Combine that with the fact that an Imperator titans main armament could take out an Atlas in a single blow, and i'd reckon you'd have to throw every scout lance the Lyrians have at one

>>48094892
So you're taking campaign ops?
Alright, in an hour or so when I'm back at my books and desktop, I'll do merc handbook 3055, because it's the least used of the systems

Why the hell did we start dragging out the 40k shit? Get thee to a GeeDub store and let us talk about giant robots in peace.

>>48094949
What about a drop ship?

Rolled 5, 1, 1 = 7 (3d6)

>>48094919
>pirate
damn
okay, I'll go with Smoke Jaguar remnants around Wars of Reaving

> Stage 2.1 - roll 3d6 to determine basic budget
moment of truth

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>>48095007
and now I forgot to attach image...
I got 50 million c-bills...

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>>48095042
Final budget is
50 million x 1.5 (Clan era 3025-3072) x 1 (independent pirate) = 75 million C-Bills

>>48095001
Well that really depends on the dropship. I suppose an Overlord could maybe take a titan 1v1 thanks to its sheer bulk albeit with heavy damage inflicted both ways

>>48095084

Your CO and their abilities are going to change your final budget. It's on page 30. NEA was talking a modifier to your final buget in the 1.4-1.6 region, which is going to be a pretty goddamn hefty percentage for you. You need an ATOW character to do it, tho.

>>48094702
Any Titan bigger than a Warhound is better modeled up as a Mobile Structure, primarily armed with Capital weapons and with a plot device of "fuck it, just nope" with the Void Shields.

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Rolled 1, 6, 2, 3, 4, 6, 2, 3, 4, 5, 3, 1, 3, 5, 4, 1, 6, 2, 3, 6, 3, 3, 6, 6, 3 = 91 (25d6)

>>48095273
nah, I don't want to create an ATOW just for this. Thanks for the heads up, though

>>48095084
>stage 3.1 - buy stuff

I don't have too much money, let's go with one or two medium/heavy pirate stars. It seems I have to roll 2d6 for availability, so here's my desired mechs based on HW and Society MUL, their price and what I think is their target number (based on this table)


>Crab CRB-27 - 4,050,875 - 5
>Griffin IIC 2 - 4,087,510 - 5
>Hunchback IIC (Standard) - 8,050,000 - 5
>Pariah (Septicemia) Prime - 12,964,070 - 5
>Pariah (Septicemia) Prime with Veteran Pilot- 12,964,070 - 7
>Ryoken - 14,771,113 - 5
>Ryoken with Veteran Pilot - 14,771,113 - 7
>Thresher - 13,198,400 - 6
>Thresher with Veteran Pilot - 13,198,400 - 8
>Cauldron-Born (Ebon Jaguar) Prime - 17,972,282 - 6
>Cauldron-Born (Ebon Jaguar) Prime with Veteran Pilot - 17,972,282 - 8
>Rifleman IIC (Standard) - 5,741,587 - 6
>Guillotine IIC (Standard) - 7,307,734 - 6
>Flashman FLS-8K - 17,828,125 - 6
>Black Knight BL-6-KNT - 7,136,938 - 6
>Warhammer WHM-6Rb - 6,509,584 - 6

>>48095595
speaking solely fluffwise, how would jag remnants be getting a hold of pariahs

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>>48095629
>speaking solely fluffwise, how would jag remnants be getting a hold of pariahs
Really, really fucking easily. Do you remember the main Dark Caste ally of the Society?

Rolled 2, 3, 4, 4, 1, 5, 2 = 21 (7d6)

>>48095595
this time I fucked up the dice roll. it is missing 7 dice
for now this is what I can buy

>Crab CRB-27 - 4,050,875 - 5
7

>Griffin IIC 2 - 4,087,510 - 5
5

>Hunchback IIC (Standard) - 8,050,000 - 5
10

>Pariah (Septicemia) Prime - 12,964,070 - 5
5

>Pariah (Septicemia) Prime with Veteran Pilot- 12,964,070 - 7
9

>Ryoken with Veteran Pilot - 14,771,113 - 7
8

>Thresher with Veteran Pilot - 13,198,400 - 8]
8

>Cauldron-Born (Ebon Jaguar) Prime - 17,972,282 - 6
9

>Rifleman IIC (Standard) - 5,741,587 - 6
12

>>48095660
i actually legit did not. i thought the society mostly kept its special Clan-kicker 'mechs to itself, heh.

>>48095711
>>48095629
Society mechs can be acquired by their Dark Caste allies too

>>48095695
finishin the rolls

>Flashman FLS-8K - 17,828,125 - 6
7

>Warhammer WHM-6Rb - 6,509,584 - 6
7

My star of choice will be

>Crab
>Hunchback IIC
>Paria with Veteran Pilot
>Cauldron-Born
>Warhammer

final price of 45,901,023 C-Bills

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>>48094640
>>48094883

>>48093037
>>48093315

These are dope, thanks.

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>mfw MD out of nowhere last session

>>48097140
Word of Blake jihad greatest days ever

Was the Blakist Battle Armor superior to it's Inner Sphere or Clan counterparts?

>>48094756

Not even. During the Crusade the Imperium of Man virtually annihilated the alien races. Eldar are still around because their planets move or can't be accessed in the Webway, Orks are around because they breed like rabbits, the Tyranids don't hold territory and the Tau are new. When the books say the Imperium controls the galaxy, they mean it. Alien-controlled worlds are rare compared to what humans have. The Eye of Terror is the biggest exception.

>>48094856

Not according to the novels.

>>48094333

Marines are more heavily armoured than anything short of assault BA, and that's debatable given the level of firepower or uber luck or sniper/assassin characters needed to bring one down. Terminators take that to another level and Marines with Rosarii/Iron Crowns/etc are a thing. The board game rules do a very poor job of representing the fluff there. Marines are also way more augmented than Elementals, far beyond even the most hard-core Manei Domini, and the least experienced Marines are still going to have 3-4 decades of training and field experience on average, with Company leaders often boasting three or more centuries of combat experience. It's not even a comparison, Marines are just flat better.

>unless you're throwing the SLDF at them.

40K units have Void Shields. BT has armour. 40K has a massive numerical advantage, and their Corvettes are larger than BT BattleShips.

>>48094617

There's a AdMech novel where a Titan fires its main gun on board a ship and it fucks it up beyond belief. Range issues and Void Shields aside BT units are going to have a rough time with the pace and firepower of so much as a Wolfhound, anything bigger is completely out of the question.

40K is just a whole other level of scale and tech.

The only area BT has an advantage is in FTL travel, which can be traumatic for some but usually doesn't result in the ship missing its jump point by a few systems, arriving decades late, or getting eaten by Daemons on the way.

>>48099494
>Not even. During the Crusade the Imperium of Man virtually annihilated the alien races

That they could find along warp routes that were stable. Those are relatively rare in the galaxy and there are sizable swathes of Imperial space teeming with unknown alien empires and lost colonies that haven't respectively been annihilated or re-absorbed yet because no stable warp routes lead from Imperial staging bases to those regions.

>>48099494
For what purpose? Go back to your containment threads.

>>48099233

Depends on the suit. Some like the Djinn or Shedu are pretty good at what they're designed to do. Some like the Tengu are lacklustre because they try to cover too many roles.

The generalist suits are usually a bit better than IS Standard BA and a lot of their specialised suits are great in their role.

The main weakness they have on things like the Tornado or Purifier is that the armour is on the low side. WoB BA has a fair few Mimetic/Stealth options so they trade being harder to hit for being better protected, which may or may not work depending on how skilled the opposing forces are and whether they bought Pulse Lasers.

The very best Clan BA like the Ironhold still shits on them but suits so well designed are rare.

>>48099494
And this, children, is why WE DON'T TALK ABOUT 40K. You get underage retards.

>>48099555

I'm not allowed to be as familiar with 40K lore as I am with BT, or argue based on that that BT gear is inferior?

>>48099546

A lot of that was taken back in the Great Crusade after the Warp calmed down. Alien-held worlds are in a minority compared to Imperial-held worlds, the Imperium is just ridiculously massive. Granted they fall every now and again but even so it's the exception rather than the rule.

>>48099653
Nothing good ever comes of BT vs. 40k discussions. Ever.

>>48099653
>>48099546

Please, get the fuck out with your 40K bullshit. People have made it pretty clear that it's inappropriate for this thread.

>>48099828
Nothing good ever comes of anything 40k, really.

>>48099828
Nothing good ever comes of 40k VS X in general

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I'm just going to leave this here.

>>48093323
You are not alone, sibkin. I myself, personally prefer the Clan names to the IS names for most Clan 'Mechs, though with a few exceptions such as the Ebon Jaguar. "Cauldron Born" sounds slightly better to me for some reason.

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>>48099994
Nothing good comes of comparing two different game systems in general.

It's just silly.

>>48100086
Well, it's not like anybody except the Smoke Jags themselves called it that.

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I'll ignore this discussion and post qt Black Lanner

>>48100103

Even the Smoke Jaguars call it the Cauldron-Born in the novels.

I've literally only seen Ebon Jaguar used to refer to it in the Tech Readouts.

>>48094848

I commented last night, but I just wanted to say that I'm sorry the thread turned to 40K shit right as you were posting. Maybe bring it up later when stupid shit isn't happening?

>>48100388
I disagree, any discussion that drowns out the retardation is welcome.

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>>48100255
I challenge your qt with pure ugliness

>>48100568
What the hell is that?

>>48100613
Arctic Fox, I think

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>>48100613
Arctic Fox.

Basically the Kell Hounds looked at the Kit Fox and tried to make their own version of it.

>>48100666
...So it is! Thanks.

>>48100695
I always had a boner for assault vehicles.

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>>48100695

>>48100966
i like its goofy little happy robot head, it is SO STOKED to go blow stuff up

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>>48101361
S'why I posted it.

Can you name this mech?

>>48100437

Retardation cannot be drowned out. It only grows stronger.

>>48101425
Jupiter. Make it difficult, anon.

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>>48101564

OK.

>>48101617
Marshal.

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>>48101635

>>48101692
Wasp.

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>>48101635
>>48101713

Nice!

OK...

>>48101756
Pretty sure it's a Falcon. Should I be bothered I don't need a book for these?

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>>48101775

Correct. And yeah, probably.

>>48101824
Now that's too easy. It's the default TRO:PP Griffin.

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>>48101851

In my defense, I'm hitting "random" on Sarna until a Mech page comes up.

>>48101877
Original Loki or Thor art from 3050.

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>>48101912

Ah, but which ONE?

OK, but seriously, this is the last one I can do right now. I didn't realize how late it was and I have to be up in 4 hours. Solution in spoiler.

Storm Raider; really fucking good job if you actually got this. I didn't even know this Mech even existed

>>48101955
Storm raider
>which one
They have the same legs.

>>48101970
>They have the same legs.

That's the joke, obviously.

>>48101955
>Ah, but which ONE?
Thor. I missed the lines on the calf.

>>48101970
Wow, I didn't even check the spoiler.
Anyways, I've stared at the Lyran 3145 TRO for too long not to know that piece of shit mech

>>48094848

One option is that the Military Science field from Military Academy provides access to the Strategy skill which can be useful for your Reputation points at the end. Probably also a good thing to have for a character who's going to be handling campaign-level ops too.

The only other comment I have is that the rules in CO are basically transposed from FM: M(R), but those were for MW3rd Ed characters. The lifepaths in those allowed you to create seasoned "starting" characters with a good decade or so of combat experience behind them and you didn't need to blow your load on supporting skills or the Vehicle trait since the extra passes through various Life Paths would make up for that. Would it be possible to do a Veteran and Highly Experienced/Elite archetype to go along with the NoobCommander one?

Last one: the Vehicle trait is meant to require another 2 points for you to own it, wouldn't starting your Merc unit imply/require the owned points need to be spent to cover it?

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>>48100568
Speaking of, since I'm bored and forced to wait for my roommate to get home since they forgot their keys, have an Arctic Fox II. I regret almost nothing.

>>48102734
Wee bit slow for a Light but...hm.

Is TRO 3057 Revised still the go-to for most DropShip, JumpShip, and WarShip stats?

>>48104399

Yes. There's the Amaris-class in one of the LoT books, a Periphery ship in Reunification Wars and House ships in the 2765 Field Reports plus the Field Manual WarShips in TR 3067 though. DropShips are more scattered still.

>>48104551
Thanks.

>>48104616

NP. If you want to see a quick and concise listing of their combat stats, MegaMek is good for that too.

Just don't try to play it in space games, it doesn't know how to use velocity properly.

Am WarShip Article guy, if you have any questions feel free to ask.

>>48104861
>Just don't try to play it in space games, it doesn't know how to use velocity properly.

Found that one out a while ago, sadly. I might still have to use it anyway since MegaMek seems to give C-Bill costs where TRO 3057 actually doesn't compute them for you.

Is there anything that changed between Aerotech 2 and TW's aerospace rules to keep in mind at all when using these stats in TW Battletech? Or do they port over more or less seamlessly?

>>48104881

There were some changes to DropShip collar rounding (which IIRC rendered the Star Lord illegal, though I don't recall whether they changed the rounding back of made the Star Lord bigger to fit 6 collars) and the way ASF squadrons work. The biggest changes were with Bracketing and Large Craft ECM.

Those last two are complete game-changers for large craft and make fighting at a distance a much more viable proposition than AT2's "barrel into Medium-C range, hope for the best" fights.

I'm not sure MegaMek's C-Bill costs are correct on large craft since the unit files only contain their combat equipment rather than all their equipment, but the difference for DropShips is probably not much and on larger vessels the costs are already HOLY FUCK YOU GUYS so missing another million or so C-Bills each time on various non-combat item groupings is basically a rounding error.

>>48104969
Good to know. Doesn't sound like anything TOO severe to worry about, and yeah I'd probably just use the MegaMek costs and say fuck it when it comes to computing the Campaign Ops roll for acquiring DropShips/JumpShips/WarShips.

Since we're on the topic of mercs and WarShips, anyone got that fanon thing for doing WarShip stuff with mercs with FMMR?
I think NEA has it?
Anyone?
Thanks

>>48100024
I love the shoutout to the punching out of the Warhawk pic that this is.

Campaign Companion! FINALLY! YAY!

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>>48100568
Best mech from best TRO. A Japanese toilet with a PPC weiner. That is squatting like it it is going to poop. Meanwhile, this asshole can fly like a 50's space invader.

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>>48106274
I've always had a soft for this guy. This is the 'Mech of a confident man.

Happy 4th. In celebration, post your best Stackpoling and ammo explosion related stories!

>>48094848
>Since an ATOW-compliant unit CO is *hugely* important for starting up a force (especially a merc force) in Campaign Companion

Can you elaborate on that NEA? I've never really looked into ATOW.

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>>48106813
Well, this is my biggest number ever, either on TT or in Megamek.

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>>48106919
That's amazing, I know at this point Machine Gun ammo is an inside joke, but seriously shit needs to be nerfed.

>>48106825

A lot of the bonus factors for cash and reputation of your force come from having stats you get from AToW. There are rules for generating unit commanders without them in CO but they are substantially inferior to what you get with an AToW character.

>>48106919

>A/C-5 malfunctions

No shit.

>>48106825
I don't know if I'd say it's hugely important; it adds a blanket multiplier to the already wildly random starting resources and provides some points to your reputation. It's nothing compared to the old FMMr rules, where the impact of your commander's traits and skills was much more granular.

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Looks like our russian friend is going to bring out the Fire falcon next.

>>48099994
BEHOLD >>48100024

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>>48102416

Noted on all of those. Totally forgot about the +2 TP required to own the vehicle.

For reference, my intention was that if a CO wanted to pick up something like Strategy, that was what the "Miscellaneous" skills were for.

This isn't intended so much as a NoobCommander as it is to create a character ROUGHLY equivalent as an ATOW character whose been through 3 Tours of Duty (one for each "Officer" rank). If you make an ATOW character using the Free XP option, this is roughly equivalent to a 8000 XP character (4100 in attributes, 1800 in Traits, and ABOUT 2100 in Skills), which is certainly not a "Noob" by any reasonable aspect.

Perhaps I could add an option where you take on additional negative Traits in exchange for extra skill or attribute points. I'm kind of loathe to do that, though. Remembering the FM:M(r) Fast CO Creation System, it was EXTREMELY easy to min-max in a way to produce a 1/2 pilot with very large pool bonuses.

Good commentary, thank you.

>>48105093

Right here.

>>48106825
>>48107019
>>48107031

I'd call your CO hugely important because - in a system where your starting funds are totally random and aren't impacted on the size of your force - you need all the help you can get, and a blanket modifier is pretty huge in that regard. Good luck building a 3070 Merc company on a roll of 4; 20 million CB, for example (even with the era modifier). The CO is the difference between that unit starting with 40 million CB, and with 56 million CB. Likewise, your Reputation actually is hugely important once you generate contracts, and so every positive point you can get here helps a TON down the road.

>>48109074
My point was more that whether or not you have an "ATOW-compliant" CO is more or less irrelevant when their actual effect is reduced to two numbers. You could give a set of captain's bars to a rock with "x1.5 / +10" written on it and it would have the same effect.

The rules for quick commander generation are awesome since ATOW is a clusterfuck of a game, but you could just as easily throw together a quick conversion of the modifiers for 1E through 3E characters (or rocks with captain's bars), and if you want any semblance of equality for the kind of competitive campaigns you've talked about running in the past, or just want a reasonable amount of CB to work with based on a target unit size, then you'd be better off doing away with the random roll altogether.

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>>48106943
>ICE
I never noticed that until now. Where would the fuel even be stored?

>>48109878
>Where would the fuel even be stored

Forget it, Jake, it's BattleTech. Thinking about that would only break your mind. But if you want to break your mind over your knee, check out the thing at >>48100695 and wonder where the crew goes when you pack in all those LRMs and Streaks plus ammo for the gauss rifle, the autocannon and the machine guns into it.

>>48104187
Same speed as the original.

>Falcons, Jaguars and Bears don't like the Wolves and their opposition to the invasion
>Falcons, Jaguars and Bears like the invasion
>Falcons, Jaguars and Bears can best think to "get back at" the Wolves by putting said wardens in charge of the thing they like and want to succeed
>Falcons, Jaguars and Bears act astonished when everything fucks up

Anyone else here ever think that the invading crusader's oh-so-clever plan to troll Ulrich was retarded as hell?

>>48110957

No dumber than any number of other plot lines. And probably the smartest thing they could have done since Bjorn Jorgenssen and the Bears hadn't drunk deep from the wells of fiat at that stage. If they'd waited a year, though, ilKhan Bjorn Jorgenssen would have been drinking mead from Wolf skulls on Terra.

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>>48110957
You think that's dumb, you should see what goes on in real politics.

Their idea was to put Ulric in charge in the hopes he'd fail or otherwise be resistant so they could use his failure as justification to oust him and the Wolves from the invasion entirely - something they couldn't do outright considering the clout and strength the Wolves had.
Instead he took to the invasion with a degree of enthusiasm and made them all look like shitters.

When it comes to true retardation, however, I don't think anyone can beat Capella or Pre-Teddy Combine.

>>48109755
>The rules for quick commander generation are awesome since ATOW is a clusterfuck of a game

I wonder if I'm the only one who finds it more intuitive in some ways than MW3e. Though even I have some heavy houserules for Equipped and Wealth.

>>48111164
>No dumber than any number of other plot lines.

Amen to that.

>>48109755
>Captain's bars on a rock.

I'm gonna do this and take it to my games.

>>48114466

In fairness, if you do this with a butterbar instead of Captain's Bars, you'll actually increase your on-field performance. Even a rock is a significantly better leader than a 2nd Lt.

>I got a medical discharge from the Army *directly* because of the actions of a 2nd Lt who couldn't read a fucking map or recognize signs which basically read, "danger, area contains explosives."

>>48114496
A-fuckin-men
In my time I've met exactly one butterbar who wasn't either completely clueless or a utter moron, and that was probably because he'd been a terminal lance before he went to school and got back in as an officer

>>48114496
>I got a medical discharge from the Army *directly* because of the actions of a 2nd Lt who couldn't read a fucking map or recognize signs which basically read, "danger, area contains explosives."

Christ. I hope he got a dishonorable.

>>48114872

Not even close.

Although he DID manage to break his hip a while later while attempting (and failing) at an Australian rappel (the headfirst one), so I got to share a surgical recovery ward with him.

And by that, I mean I got to watch the orthopedic surgeon (MAJ Paisecki) tear into him for both being stupid enough to break himself, *and* for being stupid enough to put four soldiers*** like me in the hospital because of his "breath-takingly legendary incompetence". Watching that was a fun 50 minutes.

Oh LT Feliciano. You could have saved the country so much time, effort, and good people by deciding that JROTC wasn't right for you.

***You know those fake minefields in training using the fuck-huge air cannons? He led us almost three miles into somebody else's AO, into one of those "minefields", and the umpires with the god guns set off the field not knowing we were in it. Myself and several other guys got hurt. All of us went to the hospital, but I was sitting on top of one when it blew; almost took my foot completely off.

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>>48115193
Jesus. At least he got some karmic backlash and you survived his idiocy.

>>48114496
>it's the annual "NEA tells that story and suffers PTSD" episode

>>48115759

Well, aren't YOU a cunt?

Game of Thrones is wrong, by the way. There actually is a cure for being a cunt. It's administered to the forehead in approximately 120-grain increments, at about 1100 feet per second. You should try it.

>>48115805
>being edgy because of a joke
Lol take your own advice m8

>>48113002
One of the early dumb fuckeries, though
Said that, Battletech doesn't have and never had a smart plot

>>48115885
Wait, Battletech has a plot?

>>48116175
It has
Not a smart one, though :)

>>48115805
I think it's more a case of invoking PTSD in some of the other veterans that read this thread. Last time he storytiemed for us about it one guy asked us to stop because he felt could feel an attack coming on.

So, I'm having to do a Ghost Bear force for a campaign. What're some good reading fordoing the Ghost Bear side well?

>>48116254

It's not like PTSD is a real thing anyway. Just harden the fuck up and quit being a pussy about stuff.

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>>48116508

>>48116508
Weak b8 m8

>>48109878
>>48110072
One of the excuses for ridiculous CV ICE weights in BT is that it includes the fuel. Not that it's an actually viable excuse, unless we're to believe everything is toting thousands of gallons around.

let's get off this wild ride and back to battletech.
How about a design challenge?
Do a 3039-style downgrade of a SL-era mech that doesn't have one

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>>48116951
I'd still use it. I love fast Light fire support 'Mechs.

>>48117044
I'd say it's a good bit better than an LCT-1M.

>>48117402
Eeeeh, maybe? It's got 5 tons on the -1M, but has possibly less armor and only comparable speed. I definitely like it, but saying it's a "good bit better" is a big word. I think it's merely comparable (and both have the "light mechs with LRM 5s sorta suck" problem).

>>48117526
>possibly less armor
Tissue has more armor than an LCT-1M. AV 16. And LRM 5s and low weight introtech lights is where LRM-5s ain't too shabby even as direct attack weapons, and this has 150% the LRM firepower. So this can play the same keep away game and hit slightly harder and not lose limbs when 5 points of damag comes its way.

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I have no MRM related regrets.

>>48117614
For 5 extra tons, I'd like slightly better protection, but I'm a picky fag who likes my light mechs to be hyper-fast backstabbers.

And you make a fair argument about the LRMs. I usually play mixed weight games that are a little smaller, so I have little experience with introtech light-on-light violence. Usually, LRM-5s directly equate wasted tonnage in my experience.

>>48117681
>Usually, LRM-5s directly equate wasted tonnage in my experience.
On lights or singly, sure. Two or three of them are a decent secondary weapon

>>48117681
Basically, the lack of weight savers means that 25- ton mechs exist only to be cheap, as they can't do anything else better than a 30+ ton one. This is why Panthers can be quite dangerous, the Wolfhound is a monster, and even Urbies are more viable against them than one might expect.

>>48117785
>Two or three of them are a decent secondary weapon
Why would I not want an LRM-10 or 15 though? Tonnage is just about the same after all.

>>48117837
LRM-5s are flat out the most tonnage efficient launcher. An equal number of tubes in LRM-5s to the other launchers will save you at least a ton, though the 15 and 20 are more heat efficient. Generally you'll see minmaxers use -5s to maximize their weight.

>>48117837
Splitting fire, mines, more chances to hit, better sandblasting and saving that extra ton

>>48117837
Because of ammo variants. LRM-5's make smoke just as good as 20s, and with multiple launchers, you can make multiple clouds of smoke, clear multiple hexes of mines, etc.

>>48117894
>>48117905
>>48117925
Well I'll be damned. Makes some sense, thanks /btg/. I like the ammo variant idea, somehow cramming another ton into a Locust-1M and ruining someone's day with smoke on the important mechs and mines on the others.

>>48117985
LCT-1M units are hilarious when facing off against Capellan TSM-X units. I had a lance of them stop an entire Capellan company cold because of layered smoke deployment and combat damage due to Anti-TSM missiles. Admittedly, I lost the entire lance, but hey.

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is it proper to praise him as today?
it seems you forgot your lord and savior Blake

>>48118235
May his will guide us to a clan free future

>>48116448
As the OpFor? Bears are surprisingly boring.

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>>48118235
It is always proper to praise him.

>>48118235
>TFW you realize the Master just really liked fireworks displays.

>>48117985
This is one of the reasons why the bandersnatch is so nice; three fives and two tons of ammo mean that you can cause a lot of trouble if you've got a mind to.
(I sometimes like to customize mine by trading the rear MLs for more LRM ammo, allowing for some pretty crazy flexibility)

>>48116448

They're supposed to trade raw speed for firepower and their favourite rides are overgrown versions of the next weight class down- the Viper is an overgrown Light, the Mad Dog is an overgrown Medium, and the Executioner is an overgrown Heavy.

For tactics I'd read the Field Manual since the novels featuring Ghost Bears are... well, to say they're wildly at odds with their SB descriptions is understating things.

>>48118530
>>48119608

Alright, that's a little sad. I'm playing the Clan OpFor mostly just because I wanted to give playing the Clans a shot for once, and I have zero impulse control and figured doing an entire campaign would be best.

>>48120018

I guess the good news is that you can run an Omega Galaxy force using Clan tech and play as though you were IS, including massed fire.

>>48120790
hell depending on era and who you're fighting such tactics may not be entirely out of character for any unit in the Clan

>>48119608
I've always thought the Ghost Bears were out of the spotlight for a long time before the Jihad even the official authors were a bit confused. After Tukayyid, it was all Jade Falcon and/or the various flavours of Wolf (Red Corsair, the Refusal War, Coventry) or Smoke Jaguar (SERPENT and the Great Refusal). The Ghost Bears' only slice of the action was the Drac-Bear War and that was more like a sideshow to the FCCW.

I think my most vivid memory of the post-Tukayyid/pre-Jihad Bears was the GBL's mission where you fight a Trial of Grievance against your trinary commander.

>Primary Objective: DESTROY YOUR COMMANDER

I wonder if that theft of Bear genetic material is canon.

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>mfw the guys who wrote Campaign Operations used a simple find-and-replace function in the force creation chapter to capitalize all instances of the word "Force" and fucking left it at that

>>48121407

They are in the novels to a degree but get a lot of page time in the SBs. Plus we have the Scottish Bears in Roar of Honour.

So it's basically a case of "Oh, while everyone else was getting beaten up in the novels for the Twilight and FCCW era, the Bears were winning."

>>48121837

A lot of stuff in the force creation section is lifted from FM: M(R). It also makes it so that Drac units who do what they're required to do by executing POWs suffer Reputation hits and are under threat of being disbanded because of it.

I can just imagine that HPG message. "Warriors of the First Sword of Light! After your last ten years of sterling service to the Dragon, it has come to our attention that in accordance with the Dictum Honorum you slaughtered all enemy personnel who surrendered or were captured. We congratulate you on your dedication to duty and now require you to kill yourselves."

Also someone needs to tell the MUL and TR guys, the Monolith is a DropShip now.

>>48121927
>It also makes it so that Drac units who do what they're required to do by executing POWs suffer Reputation hits and are under threat of being disbanded because of it.

Amusing, but probably best to just employ common sense there. Or have it so that the Reputation hit only applies outside the Combine or something, with the risk of the unit becoming infamous enough that enemies start to single it out for destruction or reprisals.

>>48121947
Something I've always disliked about the mercenary reputation system is that it just assigns a flat value to successful contracts, regardless of difficulty. A podunk militia company that's Green/F shouldn't award a reputation equivalent to an Elite/A Clan trinary. But maybe I'm just weird.

>>48122078
Yeah; I'd have liked a modifier of sorts too.

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>>48118235

>>48121837
To be fair even CGL said this book was rushed

What mech would Skeletor use?

>>48123264
Can't see him ridin' anything but an Atlas II.

Atlas lolololol

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>>48123313
Given some of his other rides, I could maybe see him a Piranha.

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What's the most Capellan mech you can think of?

>>48123339
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/G%C3%B9n
Loves playing with computers, can mess around with your own 'mech while it's alive, and really shines at killing infantry.

>>48123339

TSM Stealth Pillager.

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>>48123264
>tfw no Mech with the same locomotion as the Dragon Walker

>>48123339

Vinny

So, I just started playing MWO, and since I'm currently NEET, figured it might be interesting to read some of the books, probe into the lore a bit. Wikipedia states more than 100 titles in the universe, so I figured it'd be much better to appeal to you guys for recommendations on whether or not there are any good ones, and if there are which they would be.

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>>48124761
Star Lord.
I don't know if anyone will agree with me on this one, but...
Avoid that book like the plague.
Even Far Country (the one with bird aliens that Ewok-attack mechwarriors) was better.
Seeing as you're doing MWO, look for titles detailing the Clan invasion and/or Tukayyid (Even the Thurston Jade Falcon novels, they were alright depsite myself not liking his writing style as much). I enjoyed the stories of task force Bulldog and Serpent (pic related), also.
The titles escape me, but they should be locate-able by google.

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So I'm creating my first lance, as lyrans, clan era, 5000 BV.

How bad is it /btg/?
Razorback RZK-9s
Bushwacker BSW-X1
Black Knight BL9-KNT
Centurion CN9-A

Also, is it worth upgrading the gunnery/piloting of my mechwarriors? particularly my black knight?

>>48125047
Yeah, the small bit of looking into I've done so far is sparking my interest in Clan Wolf, almost entirely because I've got a Dire Wolf and going through the cockpit customization had a bunch of wolf things.

>>48125137
Really more FCCW era than Clan era

>>48125047
>hating on Starlord
The thing you have to understand going into Starlord is that it's a cheesy campaign with your typical adventuring party. Accept that, and you're good.

>>48124761
Wolves on the Border, Heir to the Dragon, GDL saga, Jade Phoenix Trilogy. These are good places to start. One of the two mediafires in the OP has all the novels in .rtf.

>>48125279
>Cheesy adventuring party
I wouldn't mind it so much if it all wasn't just so convenient for the cast.
It's like reading the Stainless Steel Rat, without being intentionally a comedy.
I might try again one day with that idea though.

Your own recommendations sound solid though mang. 10/10, would agree with.

>>48125279
>cheesy campaign with your typical adventuring party

I actually thought for a long time that Star Lord had been written to promote the Mechwarrior RPG, but apparently there was no big MWRPG stuff going on at the time.

I still hope that my belief of the Black Thorns novels being written to promote Mercenary's Handbook 3055 is correct.

>>48125179
Ironically, the Dire Wolf is more of a Smoke Jaguar staple, and is used more sparingly among the Wolves in the invasion era.

During this time period, the Wolves tend to prefer a more mobile force, and it does work out well for them against the inner sphere. Look more at the Gargoyle, Timber Wolf, Ice Ferret and Adder

>>48125867
This.

The Gargoyle is so present in their invasion-era touman it's ridiculous.

>>48125047
>>48125279
Thanks for the book recommendations, I'm leaning towards Wolves on the Border even if it isn't set in the same period as the game. Is it a common thing with these books to delve into technobabble?

>>48125867
>>48125943
And thank you guys for the mech recommendations. I've only sunk about 20 hours into the game, so I'm still pretty new when it comes to all of the different mechs.

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Black Knights

>>48126062
>Is it a common thing with these books to delve into technobabble?
Battletech has its own, fairly small, glossary of in-universe tech stuff that you will see bandied about, but the majority of the novels are military/political/adventure stories that only care about the "science" in science fiction as a backdrop for why these stories are happening in the future, in space, in robots.

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David White style

>>48126062
The Wolves also are one of the few clans in that era who are willing to make use of artillery. To this effect they also have the Gargoyle's derpy brother, the Naga.

this all isn't to say that they don't make use of other designs, just that those are designs they either make themselves, or have a significant number of.

The Adder is a purchase from the Star Adders, and is like the clan bicycle, everybody gets a ride in it.

The Ice Ferret was originally developed by Clan Ice Hellion and called the Wolf Hunter. But the wolves responded to their antagonism by winning production rights and giving the mech a derogatory name for the hellions. in prolific use among the Wolves, primarily because it's fast.

The Timber Wolf is homegrown among the
Wolves, and superb. Think of this less as having stars and stars of the Timber Wolf, and more of having notable pilots, duelists, ristars, and other people you want to stick out, piloting these.

The Gargoyle is almost redundant, there's very little that the Timber Wolf can't do more efficiently than the Gargoyle. The main exception to this is "Carry Elementals" and that's more a quirk of the canon configurations, than something essential to the mech. But the Wolves are prolific users of the Gargoyle for whatever reason.

They DO make use of the Dire Wolf, but it struggles surrounded by all the fast movers. In most cases, you will actually be better served by an Executioner, which has a chance of keeping up. But they do even have the capacity to produce it, Ulric having personally won that from the Jaguars.

They also make decent use of things their foes produce. the Mist Lynx shows up a lot on their RATs and I'm sure that's the result of trials against and salvage from the Smoke Jaguars. Similarly with the Hellbringer.

by 3055, you start seeing the Pouncer (like a medium Adder that jumps) Phantom (Like the Ice Ferret didn't move fast enough) and Linebacker (replaces the Timber Wolf in where it couldn't keep up)

>>48126331
It's worth pointing out the Dire Wolf might not match the Wolf playbook of the invasion era, since it's really absent in their touman. Their TO&E during Revival lists around at least 70ish Gargoyles and 70ish Ice Ferrets out of 700 omnimechs, but only >3< Dire Wolf omnis. And one of those three was a gift to Natasha Kerensky, iirc.

>>48126578
Also, save for Natasha all the Wolf Galaxy Commanders, a good chunk of their star colonels, and Ulrich himself favor the Gargoyle or Executioner. For what that's worth. Personally I'd take a Timber Wolf.

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>>48126331
>>48126578
>>48126596
Hot damn, there's a lot of fluff to this. I like it.

Also
>The Wolves also are one of the few clans in that era who are willing to make use of artillery

>>48127679

Well, it's there.

It's *also* left on its lonesome to die whenever it's used because even the Wolves found it distasteful and wanted it to go away.

The Falcons fielded artillery as well, they just categorised it as combat engineering support to get around honour-related objections to its presence.

>>48127679
They do (or did, not sure if they rebuilt them past Tukayyid/Refusal war) have a BUNCH of artillery stars. At least a binary of artillery per galaxy as opposed to, as an example, the Smoke Jaguars who seemed to only field a star's worth per galaxy.

Once the Wolves became Vlad's I'm not too sure if he continued the arty practice.

>>48127904

I guess the argument could be made that every faction in the game has unlisted military assets in the Field Manuals, but the Binary Command Artillery units from Beta, Gamma, and Epsilon Galaxies (Alpha and Delta didn't have any) are notably absent from FM: Crusader Clans and all other similar products. The most significant use of the Naga I can find other than in the Wolf Clan SB is on York, by the Star Adders.

>>48108283
I just want them to release the hunchback iic
so I can have 5 (Five) hunchback iic

the ironwind versions look alright I guess

>>48125047
Star Lord is just so ridiculous I love it to death. The unedited version though. That thing scares me.

Also, bird ayylmaos are better than overly contrived circumstances? Seriously?

>>48125137
No blitzkriegs/10. Would not lyran.

>>48128770
>Also, bird ayylmaos are better than overly contrived circumstances? Seriously?

To be fair, Far Country also relies reasonably heavily on the latter, IIRC.

>>48128827
True.

>Drac jumpship misjumps into a planet that happens to have the only sentient aliens in the universe, and so did a SL jumpship 500 years prior, and neither KB'd

>>48128850
Also, in violation of established jump physics, the ships exit the jump flying directly at Kaetetoa like a fucking comet rather than emerging at a dead stop relative to the destination.

>>48128922
That one's not the author's fault, though, as that part of jump physics wasn't established until much much later.

>>48129225
I thought it was specifically called out in the novel as highly abnormal (which, to be fair, doesn't make it any less contrived)?

>>48128770
>The unedited version though. That thing scares me
What?
There's an unedited version?
Where?

>>48129633
Blaine Lee Pardoe (pretty sure, may have been someone else) had to do major edits to it to make it publishable. I'm not sure the unedited version is anywhere, but the idea of it scares me.

>>48129985
That IS terrifying.

Is having mechs like the Komodo built for hunting down Battle Armor really a cost efficient and effective solution?

>>48131263
Effective, yes.

Cost efficient...'Mechs rarely do cost efficient.

I need NPCs, if anyone here is inclined to write them for BT RPGs. Smoke Jaguar NPCs to be precise. It's for a "Dirty Dozen" type unit. Warriors just short of being thrown away into solahma. Freebirths are allowed, however shocking that may be (part of the idea is however few there were post Tukayyid got dropped in this unit to die).
The year is 3053, and any era appropriate ride is good (a rare omni for a bloodnamed with connections, typical second line stuff, and Inner Sphere refits with clan weapons as well). The odd abtakha is cool too. Their unit CO is going to be a former member of the 6th Dragoons considered disgraced for surviving Tukayyid.
I've seen /btg/ writers do some nice NPC fluff before.

For the sake of the fluff, it's worth saying that in the campaign the unit is secret even from Lincoln Osis. The loremaster is putting it together, so unorthodox rides (bought from the Diamond Sharks or something) are fine.

>>48121927
>Warriors of the First Sword of Light! After your last ten years of sterling service to the Dragon, it has come to our attention that in accordance with the Dictum Honorum you slaughtered all enemy personnel who surrendered or were captured. We congratulate you on your dedication to duty and now require you to kill yourselves.

>>48132715
Around Dracs, never relax.

>>48125047
Star Lord was a fun read. It was like reading a log of a bad campaign.

My DM friend wants to run a mecha RPG, but he can't find a system that he likes. I know Mechwarrior has an RPG, but the core rulebook doesn't seem to have rules for the actual mechs.

Are you supposed to use the RPG for out of mech adventures and the actual Battletech game for mechfighting, or am I just a retard and missing something?

>>48132822
>Are you supposed to use the RPG for out of mech adventures and the actual Battletech game for mechfighting, or am I just a retard and missing something?

Yeah, you are. ATOW does have an RPG-ifying addon to the basic Total Warfare rules, but I personally don't use much of them as it does a few weird things to stuff like heat management and combat timing.

It's the same way in the previous editions.

>>48132317
Do you want sympathetic or just general weirdos and misfits? I can supply either or a mix of both. Watch this space around midnight, when I'm back from work

>>48132957
Okay, that actually seems kind of cool to me. How well does it actually work though? The board game seems simple enough, after all. Do the two systems mesh together well?

>>48133013
As much as I love ATOW, be aware that its chargen can be rough for first timers. MW3e is slightly easier in that regard. I also do a lot of houseruling for gear (Mechwarriors get their affiliation-appropriate equipment kit automatically, for example, so they can do their fucking job) and stuff. Otherwise...mm, I'm not a huge fan of the Tactical Combat Addendum stuff as I said, but it's piss-simple to convert ATOW Gunnery and Piloting stats to Battletech skill scores (a character with Gunnery/'Mech +4 and Piloting/'Mech +3 will be an average-skill pilot for whichever group they are).

>>48132317
Actually, I just had an idea.
How does this sound?
A star of guys assigned to this unit, who all want out for various reasons and plan to use this whole secret mess as their chance to make a break for it?

>>48133013
>Do the two systems mesh together well?
I think the best answer is "sort of." There aren't really any mechanisms for RPG-style improvisation/freeform/openness in the wargame; by default, your character is basically reduced to their Piloting skill, Gunnery skill, Edge (a luck-like stat for re-rolls), Tactics skill (initiative bonus), and any specific pilot abilities they might have.

There are rules for creating wargame-scale infantry units that cover most (or maybe all) of the personal defense weapons that are available in the RPG. You are a meatbag who dies like any other infantry meatbag (I believe technically RPG characters are the "last trooper" in an infantry unit to die, so that's a little concession).

Basically there is a simple system for using RPG characters as combatants in the wargame, but not for handling wargame-scale actions as if it were an RPG, if that makes sense. That is not to say that you can't do that, but you'll have to wing it all/come up with your own mechanics for it.

>The board game seems simple enough, after all.
I don't know if I've ever seen someone describe Battletech as "simple." There's a LOT of stuff going on, not only in terms of rules and mechanical procedures, but in terms of learning the strategy of the game as well. It might "seem" simple, but for many people its appeal is actually in its depth/complexity and the level of simulation that it can create. I don't say that to put you off the game (one of the nice things about Battletech is that it has lots of optional rules and levels of complexity that you can pick to suit you), just letting you know what you might be getting yourself into.

>>48133290
>I don't know if I've ever seen someone describe Battletech as "simple."

Maybe guys who play some of the more insane historical wargames.

>>48133290
>I don't know if I've ever seen someone describe Battletech as "simple."
>>48133563
>Maybe guys who play some of the more insane historical wargames.

Yeah, compared to something like Seekrieg V or Harpoon, it's simple. Compared to something like 40K or Warmachine, it's almost impossibly complex. BattleTech occupies a space that's almost unpopulated at this point. Infinity is about as complicated, but in a totally different way.

Then there's the fact that the WAY you play BT massively influences the complexity. A game with 2 Introtech mediums per side is going to be slightly less complex than a Battalion-level game in a fully-destructible urban center with landmines, artillery, fire/smoke, support vees, infantry, and air support, in the middle of a serious hailstorm, on a heavy-G planet. But both are fully legitimate ways to play BattleTech. Most wargames on the market aren't as "scale-able" in their complexity level.

>>48133706
>BattleTech occupies a space that's almost unpopulated at this point.
Hell, it was never really populated. Only game I can think of that's really like battletech in that way is Car Wars and it's 20 years dead

>>48134086
>Only game I can think of that's really like battletech in that way is Car Wars and it's 20 years dead

CarWars ain't dead. Sixth Ed is currently planned for next year.

>>48132990
Both work.

>>48133133
That might work for a subplot. Shoot and we'll adjust fire based on what you got.

>>48133706
>A game with 2 Introtech mediums per side is going to be slightly less complex than a Battalion-level game in a fully-destructible urban center with landmines, artillery, fire/smoke, support vees, infantry, and air support, in the middle of a serious hailstorm, on a heavy-G planet
>slightly less complex
>slightly
NEA, I know you're being facetious here, but seriously, you picked almost the most complicated thing you could. It could only be worse if you included underwater combat and full scale SLDF-sized aerotech.

Also, I want to play in that game, for the record. I don't know basically any of those rules, but fuck it I want to play it.

>>48134142
>Sixth Ed is currently planned for next year.
Really? Best news I've heard this year

>>48131392

What do you mean?

>>48134840
Anything you could get a 'Mech for, you'd spend way less money getting a dedicated combat vee of some description to do instead, most of the time.

The caveat is usually that said vee will be DEDICATED, whereas the 'Mech will usually be good for more than just that one task.

>>48134840
In general, Mechs are very expensive compared to almost literally anything else around. Fuck, if you just want to kill battle armor, take a fleet of light hovers with large lasers or AC-10s or something and go pack hunting.

For the record, I believe the most cost-efficient way to kill anything in battletech is probably massed artillery pieces.

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>>48134912
>For the record, I believe the most cost-efficient way to kill anything in battletech is probably massed artillery pieces.

The game's pretty realistic in that regard.

>>48134912
>For the record, I believe the most cost-efficient way to kill anything in battletech is probably massed artillery pieces.
The problem, of course is that a few dirt cheap bombers can take it out no problem

>>48135433
I actually sometimes wonder how competitive a mostly-conventional combined arms force could be. Part of me always wanted to attempt a 'Mechless unit.

>>48136223
Can be fun, though it depends on if you mean conventional as in "No ASFs" or not.

>>48136315
Would lacking ASFs be the dealbreaker there?

>>48136335
Well it is if you want to engage the enemy outside of the atmosphere or not. Conventional Fighters are planetside only.

>>48136349
Yah, I meant more in the sense of "without air support, is such a unit basically screwed against 'Mechs?"

>>48136223
Well, it would be less effective than a combined-arms unit with mechs, obviously, but it could give a mech-only unit a run for it's money (assuming that the mech unit is designed in expectation of facing at least some conventional opposition, as they realistically should be outside of the clans; shit like taking massed fighters against mechs without any AA capacity, for example, is obviously bullshit)

>>48136370
That really depends on your unit makeup. An emphasis on hard hitting tanks and infantry would likely outweigh the mech unit's sheer toughness, as long as you could concentrate your forces properly. I've done it, but vehicle effectiveness really helps.

>>48136370
>"without air support, is such a unit basically screwed against 'Mechs?"
Not really. A BV-matched force of tanks, infantry and BA can usually give it's BV in mechs a hard fight and win a decent chunk of the time (generally more likely the earlier the era; LBX autocannon change the game quite a bit for vees, and plasma rifles are the "fuck everything that isn't a mech" button from the jihad on)

>>48136541
Hm, good to know. Might try to spin up a unit kind of like Diamond Dogs.

>>48137702
>MGS-based merc unit
>not having giant robots
Dude what

>>48138110
To be fair, they usually have a max of one at any given time, and spend a good chunk of their existence not actually having/using it.

>L5R campaign
>we're Kolat agents trying to fuck the empire from within
>we each hold a lofty position in the emperors court
>this fuckboy gets to be minister of the arts even though he's missed two meets in a row
>GM asks hmwhat we're doing to influence the empire
>this fag says "I want to hire a playwrite to write a scathing satire about me, go see the show and then publicly say that I love it, to encourage a healthy and marketable attitude of acceptable criticism of government"
>"that way we can capitalize on citizens being superficially moral and progressive within limits, effectively killing the dissidents and opposition to our rule by watering down their integrity and de-legitimizing them" or some shit
>"I want to bring Neoliberalism to Rokugan"
>The GM tells him that another playwright is writing another super-critical satire about the emperor
>That Guy says he wants to establish a playwriting union that all playwrights must be a part of and obey a set of standards and practices "to ensure quality in the theatre", but really to knuckle down on actual satire and dissidence
>Surprise it's me

>>48138473
wrong thread senpai

>>48138143
Well, diamond dogs also have the Walker Gears. Those could easily translate into light mechs

>>48138552
Would've called them the closest they get to BA, myself.

>>48129264
Could be. Misjumps are weird.

Oscar, RFL IIC (Jac AC variant) - mediocre warrior from a group of patrilineal mixings the Jags have given up on. All warriors from that breeding line know that their careers are basically over, no matter what trajectory they were on before. The chip on Oscar's shoulder has worked him into even shittier assignments than he'd normally get.

Arkady [bloodname], Warhammer IIC (Jag LRM variant) - one of the intelligent commanders who retreated early on Tukayyid. Ousted by a new power bloc but accepted the demotion gracefully. Recognizes a losing battle and respects enemies who devise them.

Lora and Branka, Shadow Cats - relatively young; could've been ristars but pissed off the wrong people. Mistakenly see themselves as the Loremaster's proteges and are convinced that a good showing here puts them on track to a bloodname.

Tamari, Jenner IIC - unusually competent freebirth warrior who was popular isorla among several Homeworld Clans in the four years before Revival. Seems easy going for a Jag - she tries to settle disputes with comrades with Trial by Dance Off (augmented or not) instead of combat - yet really enjoys unaugmented murder and is basically super happy to be in this unit.

>>48139768
Not the original guy who called for this stuff, but pretty interesting.

>>48139768

>together, they are the Guardians of Gamma Galaxy

Anybody made any IndustrialMech technicals lately?

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Do you ever wonder if you like the concept of Battletech rather than the game itself, and only play because you keep telling yourself you like it?

>>48142178
Battletech as a franchise is pretty expansive. You can like some parts of it and not others. Lots of people fell in love with the BT universe without ever touching the board game, or even knowing it existed. If anything, liking "the concept of Battletech" is one of the things that unites an otherwise fairly disparate fandom.

>>48142178
I was in a situation where I couldn't play the tabletop for a few years, but the computer games (2, 3, and 4+mercs) and the fluff kept me on.

>>48139768
Anon who made the request, thanks. Really spot on for what I need.

anyone made a Black Knight IIC?

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>>48144385

Several. Aside from copping flack from the "hurr, Clan flashbulb cheese dur, babby's first optimised 'Mech" crowd they really are as boring as batshit. There's not very much you can do with them to make them interesting. Even going full ham on Heavy Lasers doesn't help much.

Also the BT forums have decided to go full club members only, so if you don't have an account there you can no longer keep up with errata. I'm sure it's really going to help with visibility and selling the game too.

>>48144385
Yea most are just replace with clan gear cheeze.

I don't think I've seen one done out with VSPs though.... not that it much reduces cheese levels.

>>48144892
>Also the BT forums have decided to go full club members only, so if you don't have an account there you can no longer keep up with errata. I'm sure it's really going to help with visibility and selling the game too.
Seriously? Good job, OF. Bastards.

So I don't follow the BT lore super duper close but is it just me or are they running out of clans?

Like it seems like just about every time I read up on a clan that isn't wolves/falcons/bears the page ends with "oh and they were beaten into oblivion and absorbed by wolves/falcons/bears"

I mean okay that's an exaggeration but it still seems like almost or over half of them are just gone.

>>48145098
That's the point of the Clans though: to rape each other Highlander-style. Eventually, there will be only one and they will gain infinite cosmic power (or Terra, whatever).

>>48145098
Y'see, this is how battletech works these days. You either have a patron writer, which keeps a faction riding high, or you don't, and will eventually be killed off because several of the writers are clinically incapable of achieving an erection without writing about war crimes or killing off factions

>>48145166
>>48145122
I really hope the Hell's Horses make it through then
Though I feel like the only reason they're still around is because nothing ever seems to happen to them. Do authors forget they exist?

>>48145098

I think it's mostly them realising they'd started with so many Clans when ultimately only what, 5-6 were going to be relevant to the IS plotline.

So rather than waste time on shit nobody wanted to write and which generally sold poorly any way they tossed everyone who wasn't still in the Dark Age, with the option of the remaining few to come back.

>>48145182

The Horses are mostly around to boost the Falcons and Bears with whatever they're trying to do, be it BTFO the Wolves or fuck up the Lyrans. They don't really do much on their own but they have a continuing value as Clan Me To!

>>48145182
I think it's more that with the timeline stalled, nothing will happen to them until everything starts to move again.

Are there any books written from Smoke Jaguar or Nova Cat perspective?

>>48145995
There's two Nova Cat books, Path of Glory and whatsitscalled that's about Kisho Nova Cat from the Dark Age books. Freebirth has a bit of Russou Howell, but I don't recall if any of it actually follows his perspective or not. The first couple Twilight of the Clans books feature some Jag perspective with Trent and Russou. Impetus to War features some limited bits with both the Jags and Nova Cats, but it's a pretty awful book.

>>48145995
Exodus Road is the most Jaguary novel I can think of, though there might be some short stories I don't know about out there too.

>>48145995

>Smoke Jaguar

Exodus Road. Some stuff in Sword and Fire and Shadows of War with a bit in Impetus of War.

>Nova Cat

Bits of Path of Glory and Impetus of War.

>>48144892
>Also the BT forums have decided to go full club members only, so if you don't have an account there you can no longer keep up with errata. I'm sure it's really going to help with visibility and selling the game too.

Who was behind that bright idea?

>>48144892
>Also the BT forums have decided to go full club members only, so if you don't have an account there you can no longer keep up with errata. I'm sure it's really going to help with visibility and selling the game too.


Leeeeeeeeeeeeel.

>>48140371
>>48144204
Thanks, and no problem. I tried to give them a good spread of (un)ambition and (dis)contentment. Hopefully I'm not merely channeling other NPCs I've seen posted in here before.

I'm interested to see >>48132990 or >>48133133 if they're still up to it.

By the way, anyone know what country or theme the Jag names *supposed* to use? I've just been picking ones I like from a random generator.

>cont'd, 2/3

>>48140821
>Their DropShip is named "Blazing Sword"

Some also-rans:

Marko, Etta and Hikmat, HBK IICs - rebels without causes in a land of rebels without causes. Tukayyid broke them; Marko is listless, Etta is mindlessly contrary, and Hikmat is slowly going mad from stress. When kept together they keep each other balanced, but have also taken to robbing petty supply points with unclanlike subterfuge.

Satu, SCP-1N Scorpion (with clantech weaponry) - was on point for her cluster on Tukayyid and survived with her honor more or less intact. None too bright, she was tricked into volunteering for this unit and for her "gloriously challenging" 'Mech. Splits her time between ridiculous future sports and plotting her revenge.

Rosalia, Crossbow - has bounced between front-line clusters and solahma because Jag upper echelons keep forgetting she is a freebirth. This new assignment breaks that pattern, which makes her uneasy. She deals with the uncertainty by examining Inner Sphere goods and broadcasts for cultural weakness.

>cont'd, 3/3

That Bastard Bernard, Grendel - in the course of trying to sabotage a rival, he accidentally corrupted his own Trueborn genetic records, giftake and living DNA. Won his innocence in a grueling Trial, but is still despised by all and constantly shorted. Was once stranded for a month and by necessity learned basic maintenance and repair.

Silvio, Locust IIC - losing his chance at conquest, plus prolonged (and confused) contact with Cloud Cobras, have warped his mind. Privately believes that his best chance at glory and immortality is to proselytize the Great Houses from within. Acts as though the Invasion is still advancing and continually pushes for assault missions. Luckier than good.

Nomusa, Excalibur (with Clantech weaponry) - a contemporary of the Loremaster. She's bitter about this assignment, which is as much of a favor as the loremaster can do for her. Knows where every galaxy commander's skeletons are buried but doesn't have the will or the leverage to do anything about it.

>>48144892
Well in keeping with the IIC occurrence of adding/subtracting 5-10 tons, it's fun to turn the Black Knight IIC into an 85 ton fast assault mech.

>>48147435
Hey, sorry. Kinda fell asleep as soon as I got home last night. I'm back at work but I'll try and think up a couple and post them here when I'm on break

>>48146085
Impetus of War literally beats out Star Lord or whatever other options there may be for worst BT book.
I mean I get it's just some scifi action, but DAMN Impetus was bad.

>>48147460
>>48147477
Some of these remind me of Starsiege pilot descriptions now. You ever play that game. Still good contributions though.

>>48147435
Like with most Clans (I thought) the Jags don't really have a specific country theme with their names. They run the gambit.

>>48092675
What game is this?

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>>48132317
Mechwarrior Albert, Shadow Cat.
Laziest Clanner alive, when it doesn't come to pulling the trigger. Has repeatedly fought Trials of Refusal against promotion, ducked a Bloodhouse nomination early in his career, and refuses to bother with basic calisthenics or training except on his own terms. Expert, lethal deulist in and out of his 'Mech, with a fondness for stalking enemies. Once successfully defended his practice of declaring duels by engraving his challenge into a gauss slug and firing it into his chosen target from behind. Has an entirely unholy love for cup ramen. Smiles like someone who has recently discovered they have a face and would like to know more about the topic.

Accepted the assignment after being told Zell is off the table and he can pretty much kill freely "as long as they're designated targets".

Point Commander Sissy Schmidt
Captured Blood Spirit elemental. Likes: fire, teamwork, high-caliber AP weapons, pushups and team-building exercises. Dislikes: Freebirth, Smoke Jaguars, rain. Has mild agoraphobia and spends most of her "free" time Augmented if she has to leave her barracks.

Point 1 "Dinky" Jason, Freebirth Elemental.
Criss-crossed Samoan bloodlines with Elemental. Fucking huge, and getting bigger. Won a Trail of Refusal to remain in the Warrior Caste by choosing to run a "dry" biathlon using Man-pack PPCs against the Trueborn MechWarrior who refused to carry his Star. Refers to his suit's ERSL as a "popgun", and routinely hand-loads the SRM packs.

Point 3 Susan, Freebirth Elemental
Fond of explosives, excellent cook and chemist. Product of an illicit affair between a member of the Scientist caste and her Elemental mother. Suspected in several minor incidents of sabotage, but never caught. Other Jag Elementals find her intellectual bent "disturbing", along with her habit of infiltrating sites through the sewers. On team to get her out of Clanner space. If she returns, will be involved in the birth of the Society..

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so... uhh...

Im going to be running a mech campaign within the next week, and I was wondering if you guys had any maps you can share. either for grid or campaign setting would be nice.

>>48148838
Freebirth elementals are a nice touch. I think their existence is often overlooked.

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>>48148838
Point 2 Grover, Trueborn Elemental
The rest of the Star are here for a serious cultural or mental defect. Grover's just an asshole. He likes to build furniture (badly), he insults everyone he meets benignly enough that no-one is willing to run the risk of honor loss for challenging him, and he always has a new but technically accurate complaint at the tip of his tongue for any given situation. From the same Sibko as Lincoln Osis, constantly refers to him being a "wanker" in training. Has had 11 separate suit malfs since joining the Star, none have been lethal. Yet.
Currently, unbeknownst to either, the Point Commander has a betting pool going as to whether it's Susan flirting with him or trying to kill him. It is eagerly followed.

Point 4 Hamilton - Freebirth elemental
Crack shot, highly-dexterous, poorly conceals his shameful hobby of gardening. Scrawny for an Elemental, but fast and capable of getting it into places and spaces no-one believes possible. Prefers to work as part of a team; never volunteers to be the pointman but accepts if asked. Excellent at laying covering fire. Called a "Prancing little git of a Tailend Charlie" by his previous point commander in the letter recommending him to the unit.

Point 5 Dumond - Trueborn elemental
Scrounger and inveterate gambler, fascinated by Solaris games. Has Dark Caste creditors blackmailing him that landed him the gig - they want to see what the Clan is planning, and have him sabotage any anti-Caste efforts. He's planning to use the opportunity to wipe them out and maybe make a little bargain or five on the side. Sleazy, yet trustworthy - as long as you don't coerce him. Has a near-legendary "sixth sense" for trouble, which he claims comes from a borrowed Nova Cat lineage. This does not endear him to any of the Jag officers. Holds grudges close, and lets them mellow like fine wine. Looks like the love child of Steve Buscemi and Peter Lorre.

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>>48148954
>Freebirth elementals are a nice touch. I think their existence is often overlooked.
I agree, especially in a society like the Jags where there's a lot of "warriors do what they want" with such vicious taboos on Caste-mixing. There's gotta be an enormous market for illicit inter-caste porn and a huge (hurr) number of Truebirth with a fetish for it. And since the only way to get a leg up in their society is kicking ass..

>>48132317
Mechwarrior Davis (Truebirth) - Shadow Hawk C
Davis is a loser. Literally. He barely squeaked through his Trial of Position, and hasn't won one since. He lost out on the chance to ride to Tukayyid after getting traded out of his Cluster in a Trial, even had to come in late to the Invasion. His Nova Omni was destroyed by land-mines in a pirate-hunt in the Periphery last year.
He's also lucky as shit, as long as you define "luck" as "safety". Every theater he's ever hit has gone silent, he's lived through every Trial he's ever fought, his Cluster were slaughtered to a man by traps on Tukayyid within 30 minutes of landing. He managed to avoid Dispossession by claiming a (formerly RWR-owned) vintage SHD that no-one wanted and got it refit to clan standards.
He's in the group partly as a good-luck charm, and partly out of a desperate desire to FINALLY see some fucking action. During training he's also discovered a heretofore-unknown aptitude with indirect missile fire; if the group captures a Longbow or Archer he'll probably try to claim it.

>>48148838
>>48149327
Isn't it a Point Commander + 4 other elementals?

>>48149614
Ahh Low Seas Piracy. One of the few maps I made that absolutely no one wants to play ever again. Possibly because they never seem to grasp that taking mechs into water is bad juju, though I wish I didn't have to scale it down for a small table. It should be 4x4.

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>>48149614
>>48149327
>>48148838
Mechwarrior Lee (F) - Exterminator
Captured Nova Cat Freebirth. Prefers night combat, claiming "The eyes of the Jaguar shine brightest in the dark". Speaks in riddles and proverbs to infuriate her Star Commander (and Bondholder), but is almost insultingly blunt to anyone who isn't an officer, and expects the same in return. Is carrying on an affair with the Star Commander, who finds her odd speech and mannerisms exotic. She followed him here. Lethally-accurate with lasers of all sizes, and an avid hunter. Refuses to touch porcelain of any kind except on direct orders, has a steel toilet in her barracks room.

On the rolls she has a "Caine" custom Exterminator: in fact, she has actually been given a working -4C with NSS and CLPS, as well as upgrading the weapons, structure, and engine to Clan standards and adding a MASC system. The exterior remains largely unchanged, mostly to avoid reconfiguring the stealth systems. The unit only has one spare of each system available, so she's been reading up furiously on the design documents with Elemental Susan and her lead tech (the only other technically-minded people she feels she can trust with the secret).

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>>48149790
It should be, I just got carried away. Feel free to move one of them around. It's even funnier if Jason is a MechWarrior, to be honest - imagine the poor bastard trying to wedge himself into the cockpit of an Ice Ferret or something. Then he'd be helping out the Ellies on the side as something of an emergency Human forklift.

>>48149981
Well the numbers work great for campaign characters (a couple of binaries with the PCs included).
Dis gonna be good.

>>48150155
Hey, >>48132990 and>>48133133 here. Do you still want more NPCs? I should have them written and posted in an hour

>>48150242
If you want to throw in a couple sympathetic NPCs before the thread 404s that'd be cool.

>>48150308
Well, the thread is dead very soon, so I won't make that deadline. I could post them early next thread, though

What are common Capellan battlemechs in the late 3rd Succession War to Clan Invasion eras?

Aside from Vindicators, Urbies and Bugs (or Ravens and Cataphracts, though I wouldn't call them common exactly).

>>48150442
Besides what you listed, Crusaders and Riflemen. Victors for assault.

The CapCon didn't really make much in that era.

>>48150442
>>48150581
Up until 2953 they had a factory producing (mostly) unspecified heavies and assaults on Carver V, including Atlases. Atlai. Whatever.
League took the planet and the Caps fought back, and over the course of three years fighting for control the factory was razed.

That's more mid-3rd War than late, but there should still be some of the output of that factory left over by the 3020s, though other than the Atlas, we don't know what it was.

>>48150442
Cataphrachts are actually pretty common in that era