/ccg/ Custom Card Thread /cct/

>>48083632
5 for a 2/2? I think you could at least make it a 3/4. Or maybe incorporate a P/T modifier to both abilities. Gun gets +2/+0, Not gets +0/+2 or something.

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Updated Praetor Avatars

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Toying with the idea of other colors of land creatures

>>48083926
Would the pump ever actually be worth it? Oh, and you don't need to say "~ is black" just use the color indicator. You know, that colored dot at the very left of the type line that's used by colored cards with no colored mana cost. Like Dryad Arbor, for instance.

>>48083983
I know what the color indicator is. I don't have an updated version of MSE, because it's all fucky on my computer.

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>>48084026
Do you run Windows? Did you install MSE in one of the "Program Files" folders?

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first ever custom card. not very original

>>48084993
Too broken, should be at least 3RR.

>>48085235
wouldn't 3RR be bit excessive? you do exile your library after all

>>48084993
Too swingy and generally not fun.

>>48085447
Think of it as an overpowered Fireblast. The two mountains you sacrifice don't matter because the game is probably over when you cast it.

>>48085576
This. I feel like something people have a hard time learning is that having a downside come after an upside doesn't necessarily mean the card is balanced. What's the point of a downside if the upside wins you the game?

>>48085952
For each artifact destroyed this way, its controller loses life equal to its cmc.

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too weak? too powerful?

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Grendel. Not the biggest name in comics, but certainly entertaining. Think Bruce Wayne, but as a crimelord and assassin.

>>48085952
Ah, you're back, Tamil anon! How've you been? How's your set been coming along?

>Card
I'd say "up to two" and use what >>48086285 suggested. I feel like the cycle effect should have the artifact's controller at least lose 1 life or something.

>>48086442
Green really isn't into taxing spells. That's White's territory. Also, probably too strong, both as an above-curve trampling beater and as a lock piece.

>>48086445
Hm. Way pricier than Glissa, so much more balanced due to that. More punishing if you let it though though, so that's fair. I think it's pretty solid, and the draw seems over the top but again, Glissa lets you grab from the yard, which is more powerful than draw since you know what you're getting. though it is limited to Artifacts. It's easier to build around than draw though too. So yeah, probably fine, since it starts a bit smaller. It might be okay at 2BB but I would leave it alone personally.

>>48086442
Well, the first issue I have is the rarity. I don't think this is common material. Taxing effects like this really shouldn't be. You can easily stack two of these in Limited and completely hose your opponent, since they are easy to draft. That said, as COanon pointed out, green taxing stuff really isn't a thing. White tends to share that with blue, and only in a limited way. I think it shares it in an extremely limited capacity with black too, but I could be very wrong there.

>>48085952
At first I was like "up to" but then I read the cycling clause and it was all good. Pretty good in the right set.

Gonna post some cards in a sec. Don't have enough space to type my thoughts on them in this post.

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>>48086711
>cards
Well, kinda nervous about posting this, but I was brainstorming a few ideas for Inscribe. I like the idea of it, and making the Rune an enchantment synergizes well out of set with other cards, much like Clues do with artifact matters stuff, so I am still tinkering with the idea. Now, I'm just putting stuff out there, so don't go for the throat too hard, but I do recognize some of these might have some issues. 04 is an effect only found at rare, so it might not be suitable for commons. Uncommons are probably okay though. 03 is likely degenerate as hell, but also seems like it'd be really fun to play. I also considered combining them and making you sac X enchantments to copy the triggered ability of a permanent with CMC X. That could work too. Training Grounds says 02 might be okay since for U it reduces by up to 2, but Training Grounds can't make activated abilities free, so... that might be an issue. It's too wordy to add that clause though, so if it needed it, then 02 is a no-go. 01 is basically what I was toying with initially but cheaper. Used to cost 2 and the sac.

Thoughts? Do I have any redeemable ideas here? I kinda like 04 the best to be honest with you. Part of me wonders if the reason Strionic Resonator is rare is because of how complex targeting stuff on the stack is for newer players, but let's face it, it's also a pretty powerful effect too.

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>>48086749
4 does look interesting, though 3 raises some interesting ideas. I think you should consider the idea of cards that interact with Rune tokens themselves, instead of just relying entirely on the effect of the Rune. Like for this one, you could say
>Sacrifice a Rune: Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1.
Or something. I think you should consider it.

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>>48086600
>>48086711
to be honest i forgot to put in the mythic rarity...anyway i tweaked it a bit.

>>48086825
I am planning to do just that, but one caveat: I am adamant about limiting parasitism as much as possible, so I would likely make it "Sacrifice an enchantment: <effect> so it both works with Runes as a resource, and makes it playable outside the set Maybe you can use the Aura off a dying creature to do something before it hits the yard. That kind of thing. I like utility.

>Doomsday
Haven't seen him in a while. Wait he's Kryptonian? Really? Wow. That's... huh. I'm sure the combat damage thing is fine, but wouldn't it be a bit simpler all around if it just made a creature blocking or blocked by it lose indestructible, etc? Also that doesn't really seem monogreen. BG maybe? Doomsday is pretty solidly evil, ain't he? Like, "I really just like two things: killing and murder" evil? The second ability is very green though. I dunno, his abilities are pretty straightforward but hard to replicate in MtG rules, at least in my head.

>>48086841
Compare to Elderwood Scion.

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>>48086880
>Parasitism
Makes sense.

>Doomsday
Yeah. Since he's an "event villain" he never really had an origin when they came up with him, he was just a monster to get punched. It later turned out he's the result of a science project on a prehistoric Kryptonian. Or at least before whatever the New 52 did, I don't care. I'm basically picking and choosing my continuity here (just as I do with actual comics). Ability is basically to kill Kryptonians. I realize this might be putting too much emphasis on flavor, but I think for now it works. As for the colors, it fits into Red pretty well, so I think I'll just make it RG.

>>48086951
"Can't be regenerated" is certainly red as well as black, and Burn from Within says red gets to remove indestructible, which makes sense since red hates white and artifacts, and both are the main sources of that keyword. Yeah sure, RG works for Doomsday.

>Bullock
As much as I liked him in BtAS, I know nothing about him outside that. He always struck me as being kind of a dirty cop, but one that did right most of the time. Like, he'd take bribes from major crime families if it meant looking the other way for "victimless" crimes, but he can't stand innocents being hurt. But again, don't know much about him. His card works pretty good though.

Also, I was pretty glad to hear that Inscribe v04 sounds doable at common. Making an ETB set that cares about enchantments should prove to be fun, I hope. I should point out that Inscribe will only appear in green, white, and blue. I need to make another overlap mechanic that goes in black, red, and blue to even things out, but one step at a time.

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This is a card I'm really liking, though I'm still trying to balance it. Prez was a short-lived DC character, a teen president. I honestly did it just because I like doing obscure characters, but I like where it's going. Win-con is to represent an idea of "majority rules" with Prez as tie-breaker. Oh, and yes, Citizen is a valid creature type.

>>48087009
>Bullock
Eh, more or less. This version actually came about when I was redesigning Jim Gordon's card. Before Jim had Harvey's abilities, minus Menace, before I changed them to reflect their personalities. So, basically Harv smacks around a bad guy and locks up their suspicious buddies. Whereas Jim will wait until after they hurt someone (Jim places the counters on creatures when they hit you).

>doable at common
Ah... I should probably review it again after I get some rest to make sure I was right about that.

>>48087089
I think his wincon is too easy to achieve, since there are a ton of ways to clear your opponent's board. It's just not very interactive. But most wincons like this aren't, so I suppose that can't really be helped.

>doable at common
Well, I suppose we'll see what other kinds of feedback it gets. It may turn out we're both very wrong, or I might get lucky and finally have a version I like and is usable, which would be nice.

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>>48087137
>wincon
Welp, time to ratchet up the cost. Thanks for pointing that out.

>>48086711
>Grendel
I was just thinking about this. How about including a lifeloss with the draw?
>Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, you may pay 1 life. If you do, draw a card.
For example.

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Don't know how to make double-faced cards but i think everyone will get the idea

>>48087176
Wow, Ballistic is a hell of a pinger. I like her though.

>Grendel
A minor lifeloss clause couldn't hurt, since it's pretty easy for black to trigger that without putting Grendel it too much danger. You don't want to just sit back with it and draw; that's boring, but at least if that's how it works then you have to give something up for it. I'd say the lifeloss would be fine to go without if you changed the trigger to care if Grendel attacked or not. If he didn't, then no cards, but if he did, then you can draw.

>>48087364
noice

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>>48086445
I've been revisiting some older cards i made and have been on a golgari kick as of late.
So most of my ideas have been of the G/B variety.

>>48087364
This is pretty good. I'd draft the hell out of it.

>>48087472
Again, body seems too small these days. Compare to Festering Goblin; sure you can flicker this but you'd have to run BUG or GWB and adding colors isn't going to make your deck run any smoother. I'd beef it up a little.

>>48087482
Well, it doesn't need to be BG, but it's fine there. It's not bad.

>>48087472
This is just mono black.

>>48087482
This at least kinda feels green, kinda. But it's still easily mono black.

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I'm pretty sure this card is massively imbalanced. What can I do with it to make it less so?

>>48087588
"put a token that's a copy of it onto the battlefield". You don't need the "under your control" rider for the same reason you don't need it for saccing creatures. That said, I'd actually love to see this in RW. 1RW would be pretty good for it, I think, since it doesn't make Equip cheaper, and does nothing on its own besides. I mean it could be monowhite too, but I like the idea of it being RW personally. If you kept it in monowhite though, I'd say 1WW at least, just to keep it a touch harder to cast.

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>>48087636
Thanks for the advice. Here's another card that's giving me a bit of trouble. Does this effect work the way I want it to?

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>>48084993
hi roborosewater

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>>48088067
Sometimes its fun to play with randomly generated stuff/

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>>48088084
And where i thought it might fit.

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>>48088110
Why so limited!

>>48088110
>comma splice
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>48088150
>>48088150
That's not a comma splice, unless you think "Come gaze on the goddess of justice; as she gives traitors a last kiss" is better.

How would you feel about a Vampire Werewolf DFC with Madness and "If ~ entered the battlefield from your graveyard, transform it" or something of that nature.

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>>48083616
>Defender edition
Oh boy!

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Time for a terrible Wall

>>48088849
Why not just give it Prowess?

>>48088870
Because that would make too much sense.

>>48088849
Doesn't need that last ability. Also this isnt really in red unless it's prowess.

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>defender counters
Looking for opinions. A few places in my set I use "abilityname Counters" and "(Creatures with an abilityname counter have Abilityname)" The property is inherent to the counter type, so even if Bori dies those creatures will still have defender.

What red mechanics could work with the concept of Love ?

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Fine at rare?

>>48089366
I would make it trigger from draws except the first draw every turn, that way you aren't guaranteed to get it back. Also, that art is taken.

>>48089312
I don't think they do lord effects that affect the Lord anymore.

>>48089341
[understanding intensifies]

But seriously, soul bond, brothers yamazaki, saving spells from the stack

>>48087934
Look at og odric who does pretty much the same thing but with pseudo battalion

>>48089474
Yeah I copied odric for half of his effect, but I was mostly wondering whether the effect I have printed there (you choose the blockers, I choose which goes where) works mechanics-wise

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So, after the feedback last thread, I changed every Hound creature to a Beast, ditched the use of the term "Gnoll" for "Wuruhi," increased the frequency of relevant subtheme tribes at lower rarities, adjusted costs across the board to make sure each color had some low-cost (most specifically 1cmc) options, and I even shrunk my set symbol so that is has more space in the top and bottom margins.

I'm reposting in bulk. If anyone else has any further suggestions for improving or streamlining the set, or any issues with the way things are currently, just let me know. Thanks.

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>>48089610
Uncommons.

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>>48089627
Rares.

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>>48089632
Mythics.

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>>48089644
DFCs.

Thanks again for all of the feedback, anons. I appreciate it, as always.

>>48089654
Strict captivity could be just B. Unless having opponent's creatures enchanted is a good thing in your set

>>48089825
I don't want removal to be too efficient at common.

>>48087472
You have to write "the battlefield" twice.

>>48087482
I feel like it should only recur if you sacced something, but that's probably just the Vorthos in me talking.

>>48088084
>>48088095
Not sure if this wording actually works or not. The only cards I can think of that are similar are Nix and Hallowed Moonlight.

>>48090302
Ah. So a voltron-y limited enviroment?

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>>48087350
>Grendel
How about a Sengir trigger then?
>Whenever a creature dealt damage by ~ this turn dies, you may draw a card.

>>48088137
What is the purpose of this?

>>48088191
Not entirely sure about this, but the idea makes me want to do things with it.

>>48091317
Well since Grendel is an assassin, I'd say that makes sense.

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So, still unsure of what to do with this. I had an idea for the Headquarters land type a while ago, to basically represent that a certain land was associated with one super hero/villain or another. Then I decided to do something that interacted with it, thus Team-up. However, I've been really unsure of the direction I should go in for a while now, so I'm asking you guys what you should think I should do. Is the idea worth salvaging? Or is it best just to scrap it and move on?

>>48091936
Oh, and the costs here are just for show really, they're more conceptual than anything else.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdRhQ669s2c

>>48092717
Why?

>>48092717
johnny bravo as a character seems mono-red to me

>>48092753
you gotta

>>48092717
>1/B

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>>48092753
Why not? It's a silver boarded card, it doesn't have to make that much sense.

>>48092767
Is this any better?

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>>48092801
And I forgot to fix the mana cost for his activated ability.

>>48092782
It's so I could fit a gag in.

>>48092801
those costs are crazy restrictive
it's more of a joke-y card so it's not a big deal, but I would make the Ape token bigger and make Johnny cost less; 2RR or something.

>>48089654
yo, i'm pretty sure it's two girls in the art of passionate pair

>>48092869
That seems like their business to me, anon.

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>>48092838
Nothing like the tactical application of King Kong to surprise everyone

>>48092906
the flavortexts imply that it's a het couple
otherwise Hal and Alena confirmed
>>48092964
that's a big fucking gorill dude, if youre prepared to make gorills that big it should have haste and sac johnny as part of the cost

>>48092964
Removing the counter should be part of the cost, shouldn't it?

>>48093049
>the flavortexts imply that it's a het couple
It is. The guy in the art just has long hair. The only reason I bother to specify that is because I made alternate art versions that change which member of the pair survives. Goes with the alternate realities theme.

>>48093156
it's not the long hair that makes me think that. great card design though, seems like a fun limited.
also, minor gripe, you should try to source your art

What are the names of the fonts used on the cards again? I downloaded MSE again but I need to download the fonts still.

>>48089644
Failed Replicant or Failed Replication? The card can't seen to decide.

>>48093474
Probably all of the brain damage from those failed replication experiments. Thanks, I'll fix it.

How would you expect a Ludevic card to work?

>>48094169
The Spirit counter thing is unnecessary.

Compare to Necromantic Selection.

>>48095066
I think in this case, physically distinguishing Spirits from nonSpirits is important enough that it warrants the reminder counter.

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>>48094071

>>48095168
Considering it puts counters on things, it shouldn't blindly exile all Spirits, just the ones it revived.

>>48088084
>Dat post number

>>48095485
This makes me want to do fun things.

>>48097749
"Planeswalker - Field Marshal" means that it has two Planeswalker types, "Field" and "Marshal". See Ob Nixilis, who has just "Nixilis" as his type.

>>48097829
The name is just a placeholder. Might as well be "Bantwalker". You can ignore the name and the type line.

>>48091936
Team-up implies heroes working together, rather than locations.

"Five or more unique headquarters" is too onerous a requirement for a keyword. "Seven or more" even more so. You're basically looking at a mechanic solely for Scapeshift decks.

The last one is the most workable, but I'm not entirely sold on it. There are enough restrictions (legendary, headquarters) that you want a big splashy reward, but the fact that it's on a land makes it hard to give it that.

>>48091317
Intro-pack tier rare.

>>48098737
>Team-up
Eh, well. Maybe I should work out the lands I want to use a bit more, then decide how it should work.

>Angelus
Is this your way of saying "Babby's first rare"?

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Weird one here. Worded the first ability specifically to take alternate and X costs into account.

>>48099199
X costs already work with "converted mana cost"; it's not worth using hacked-together wording just for alternate costs.

>>48099199
>White
>Punishing low-cost spells.
What the what? White likes to make low-cost spells the only viable option. I could get behind it if the life loss were on big spells though.

>>48099341
>Hacked together
That's a bit much, since the wording is accurate and functional within MTG wording standards. And the premise of the set is built around alternate-cost mechanics, so it's at least worth consideration during design.
>>48099362
Gaddock Teeg does similar things, with green in his design on top of that.

>>48099450
Gaddock does not punish low-cost spells.

>>48099601
He prevents the casting of certain spells, just as this does. Black punishes spell-casting and has a history of effects that hit low-cost or low-power things. This is a combination of both.

>>48099601
I'm sorry, but I don't see how >>48099199 's card punishes low-cost spells. It says converted mana cost 4 or greater, not lower. It's basically Gaddock Teeg's first ability without the noncreature clause.

>>48099707
Disregard, I suck cocks. I misread the first ability as 'spends 3 or fewer life' for some reason.

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Here's a bunch of my more liked cards out of a file I have just for random card ideas that pop into my head now and then.
By "more liked" I mean "I think these are more reasonable and more likely to be well received than the others."

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>>48099793
And for no real reason, here's my take on what the other 3 colors of Akromas would be, kinda like how we had RAkroma in Planar Chaos.

>>48099199
Both abilities should look at either mana spent or converted mana cost.

>>48099944
Problem is wording that. The first ability was much easier to adapt. Would "Players can't spend 4 or more mana to cast spells until your next turn" actually work?

>>48100072
>601.2h The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. Unpayable costs can’t be paid.

>>48100072
You hear that sound? It's reality knocking at your door. And it's here to tell you that you have not fully thought this through.

>>48100152
I'll go with that, then.
>>48100165
Unexplored design space is by its nature harder to work with. Lack of precedent may make this project difficult, but it's a hell of a lot more fun and interesting for me than doing what's already been done over and over.

>>48100210
I'll believe that when I see it. And I'm not holding my breath either. You're making a big deal out of wording that has no difference from looking at CMC about 85% of the time.

>>48100283
>Red
>Berserker
>Toughness greater than power.
Absolutely disgusting.

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>>48100333

>>48100322
Taken from Eidolon of the Great Revel:
>Casting a spell for an alternative cost, such as a bestow cost, doesn’t change its converted mana cost.
>Similarly, casting a spell with an additional cost, such as a spell with a strive ability, doesn’t change its converted mana cost.
Since almost every single mechanic I'm working with involves either alternate or additional costs, I'm pretty sure it's a distinction that's gonna come up more often than 15% of the time.

>>48100362
You know I was being facetious, right? Also, there are actually 6 mR Berserkers with T>P.

http://magiccards.info/query?q=c%21r+t%3Aberserker+tou%3Epow&v=card&s=issue

>>48100390
Yes, it will be more relevant than 15% of the time. In the environment you made for it. And what about when it's outside that environment? The only place I see this wording surviving outside your set is in Commander due to the commander tax.

>>48100454
>And what about when it's outside that environment?
It will work very similarly to cards that care about converted mana cost? Why is that even an issue? Parasitism refers to cards that don't work outside of their environment, like Splice onto Arcane cards. These will work just fine, they'll just behave slightly differently from other similar cards 15% of the time. That seems like a nonissue to me.

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Here's the first half of a duel deck I'm working on. What's wrong with it, and how can I improve it?

>>48100558
You have disparate wording on your Equipment for the same effect. Equipped creatures "get" P/T adjustments and "has" keywords and abilities, just like with any other static effect. So some of them are right, some are a little wrong, and so on. I do like Sandshield Cloak though, it's nice.

Pit Medic could probably be 1W; white is good at creatures with CMC 3 or less so it can have bears with upsides. Camp Follower is similar to something I've wanted to do but never had the set for it. Formatting on the cost and tap is wrong though.

Siege Ox is kinda strange, having defender hate. I dunno where you'd put it though. Red?

Starving Lion should be red or black. White doesn't get Menace on its own.

Lycean Sergeant does something red as well.

Jurai Freedom Fighter is kind of a dead card since it cares about Rebels, but it's the only Rebel, so you have to play multiples. Also damage needs a nonplayer source, which is usually the card with the effect causing the damage on it.

Slave Gladiator would typically be black, but red getting that drawback is also fine. But red doesn't get 2/2s for 1 with that minor of a drawback at common.

Scorpio being a pansy, but in red, but with haste and first strike, is like, so divorced from itself flavor-wise that it's borderline silly. Also why is it an Advisor when it kicks more ass than most of the other creatures in this deck?

Leo is simple but really strong.

All in all it needs revision but the idea of someone making custom duel decks is appealing. Keep at it, anon.

>>48100868
Thanks for the advice. Jurai Freedom Fighter is actually supposed to go ith the Rebel/Dragon half, I just mistakenly put it in there. I'll take the rest of your advice into account to fix the rest, though.

>>48100558
Some more additional wording tips, skipping the gets/has notes that >>48100868 pointed out.
>Camp Follower
"3R, T: Gain..." Note the comma.
>Pit Medic
"Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to target creature or player THIS TURN."
Effects need a duration, typically, unless you fully intend for it to last forever.
>Withstand
See Pit Medic.
>Slave Driver
Slave technically isn't a creature type, but it's really not a problem to make up creature types as long as there's not a good substitute that already exists. Seems fine to me, "Slave" is a pretty obvious class type.
>Jurai Freedom Fighter
As the other anon noted:
"When ~ enters the battlefield, you may have ~ deal damage to target creature or player..."
>Pit Armorer
"Put a colorless artifact Equipment artifact token named Pit Armor onto the battlefield. It has "Equipped creature gets +0/+2," and equip {1}."
See Nahiri, the Lithomancer.
>Lycean General
For some reason, this looked really dumb, but the wording checks out. There's just never been a card that refers to "each equipped creature" before. Cool stuff, anon.
>Arthur, Emperor of Lycea
"Whenever you cast an Equipment spell..."
Casting IS playing (9 times out of 10), but we typically refer to casts and not plays except for lands.
"Equip costs you pay cost 2 less."
See Auriok Steelshaper.
>Border Outpost and Mustering Ground
There should be an updated template for MSE with the {C} symbol.
http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/10949
Also, remember the comma on Mustering Ground.

>>48102006
>Land.
Every day. I wish WotC would give me this card.

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>>48100558
>>48100868
>>48101344
Thanks for the help. Here's the other half of the deck, along with a couple cards I added to the Empire side. I feel like I need some more good blue cards, but I can't really think of any concepts that would fit.

>>48102354
Shifting sands should say "Rebel creature you control," not "Rebel creature you don't control."

>want to do a subtype/tribal/faction synergy thing for a set
>hate parasitism
Fuck. I really don't like making cards that rely what's found in the set to make them work. I mean it's just custom cards, and it's mostly for Limited, but I don't want to make another Allies or Rebels. Plus, the set is supposed to be about two warring factions, so having them not interact with themselves or each other would feel strange, most likely.

Sometimes just getting started is hard.

>>48102483
Start small and use creature types that already get support. Elves, Goblins, Humans, Zombies, Vampires, etc.

>>48102483
>so having them not interact with themselves or each other would feel strange, most likely.
Why would it? Tarkir had warring clans with no direct intra-clan synergy. BFZ had both Allies matter and colorless matter, yet people still jammed both Allies and Eldrazi into the same deck.

>>48102354
>costs in general
This is pedantic as fuck, but there's a space after the colon in activated abilities, for Shield of Fire, Desert Stormcaller, and others.
>Shield of Mind
"... draw a card, then discard a card." is fine. There ARE cases where you can fail to (technically) draw a card, because its been replaced by another action, but those aren't worth the less clear wording of "if you do" because the loot isn't voluntary.
>Secure the Border
"You may cast ~ as though it had flash as long as you control the least creatures or are tied for the least."
Also, flip the order of abilities, as the flash-granting is relevant before the actual effect.
>Shifting Sands
..."This creature can't be blocked"...
>Desert Stormcaller
Doesn't really feel like it needs the haste, but meh.
>Homing Lightning
Unless you intend it to do 8 to the targeted creature, "each other creature with the same name as that creature."
See the Echoing cycle.
>Jurai Freedom Fighter
I'm an idiot, fixing a comment from earlier
"When ~ enters the battlefield, IT deals damage..."
Forgot that pronouns exist hurr durr.
>Market Revolt
Know that the token you make won't be able to fight, and you won't be able to cast this spell without controlling a creature, due to how targeting works.
>Rebel Sandswimmer
Red doesn't normally get an effect like this. There's Stingscourger, I guess. If it's meant to be a downside, it's
"When ~ enters the battlefield, return a Rebel you control to its owner's hand."
>Rebel Yell
I'd like this to have some blue in it, because of how it draws cards.
>Sow Dissent
A cool Act of Treason variant, but doesn't grant haste. Might limit its usability and lead to some confusion.
>Thunderwing Dragon
Snapcaster Dragon, sure.
>Strike of Inspiration
These sorts of abilities are all one line, and use the mana symbols and typically have a dash of reminder text:
"If R was spent to... If U was spent to... (Do both if UR were spent.)"
See Cantankerous Thirst.

>>48102354
Cont. >>48102654
>Rafaam, Rebel Leader
Is his cost reduction supposed to be symmetrical?
>Rebel Triumph
"owner's hands" plural.
>Dragon's Den
Because it's a hybrid ability, the costing is a little more difficult; mono-U shouldn't be able to make 1/1 tokens off of a land. Red can maybe do it, though. Would be better as UR, if you want it that way.

Also perhaps a little cheap, because Kher Keep makes 0/1s for 1R, T.

>>48102521
Yeah Humans feature heavily, so that's not a problem. I'm not doing any non-mainstream tribes for the most part, and using typical iconics, so I guess it's not really that big a deal. The main issue was I was looking at making "subtype matters" mechanics to represent how one side of a rebellion fights, but maybe I can figure something out that doesn't care about subtypes.

>>48102625
True. It's just that if you don't build "Allies" typically Ally cards don't feel as good, and outside Limited they lose even more impact because they don't blend well with the rest of the card pool unless the card itself is an amazing value before the subtype stuff, and if it is, then it's probably too good for Limited. I dunno. I am probably overthinking it. I mean just saying "these two factions are fighting" works, but Tarkir had the clans divided by wedge. Mine is 5 color vs 5 color, so it's much harder to do.

>>48102654
>Desert Stormcaller
The haste is becasue it's a functional reprint of Stormcaller of Keranos
>>48102713
>Rafaam, Rebel Leader
It originally had "Dragon spells you own" but I wasn't sure that was the proper warning.
Otherwise, yeah I'll make all these changes. Thanks for the help, man.

>>48102771
Dragon spells you cast cost {2} less to cast.

>>48102771
>It originally had "Dragon spells you own" but I wasn't sure that was the proper warning.
If you want it to be just you, it's "Dragon spells you cast cost 2 less to cast."
See the Medallion cycle from Tempest/Commander.

I hope you don't feel like I'm ripping on you. In most cases you're almost there, and most of your cards are pretty tame, so I actually really like what you're doing.

Correction on >>48102654
re:Strike of Inspiration
>(Do both if UR WAS spent.)

>>48102761
>The main issue was I was looking at making "subtype matters" mechanics to represent how one side of a rebellion fights
There's a very simple solution for this: Don't. You have to separate mechanics from story here. When you mix them, that's when things go bad.

>>48102835
Nah dude I'm fine with all your changes, I just want to get better at making cards. I felt like doing this kind of thing would be a good way to practice before trying to make my own set, you know?

>>48102854
Yeah, I have an issue with that. It's gotten me into trouble before so I'm trying to avoid it like the plague this time.

I was considering just watermarking cards from each faction and leaving it at that. That might be enough, along with the lore. I just worry that everything might get lost in translation since people are used to "White v Black" and "Izzet v Golgari" and not "All five colors belong to both factions and there's open rebellion against the status quo". When the story is completely missing or hard to see in the cards, that can lean to other kinds of failure in the set as well. I mean cards that play well are priority one, but I feel like in making a set you have to somehow make the themes and mechanics at least nod at each other.

I'll keep looking at it. It could be that I just convey "feel" by how cards play. Like, the rebellious folks would have desperation mechanics and stuff that triggers on death, etc, to represent the fact that the established order is more powerful than they are. I am also considering making the one faction have unifying mechanics, then making the rebels have a smattering of all kinds of stuff, each mechanic in its color(s) of course, to represent the hodgepodge nature of such movements. Hm. Maybe that'd do it?

>>48102995
Magic lore adheres to the color pie as well. It's not just certain creatures or powers that make up factions, it's their convictions and tactics represented through each color. Two factions of the same colors essentially share the same beliefs.

>>48102995
Yes, you need to distinguish between the two mechanically. Think of what the factions want/represent, and think of mechanics to reflect that.

>>48103091
So the long and the sort of it is that you think the pie says I cannot design a set that pits all five colors against themselves?

>>48103129
Well assuming I can do this, then do you think having one side share a small, narrow band of mechanics, then make the other side disorganized keyword soup (respecting the color pie of course) would do that? Cause I like the sound of doing that, but things sounding good and playing well are not always synonymous.

>>48103171
Ah... no. They should probably have around the same number of mechanics each. Look, I think you should just tell us what the factions are and what mechanics you want to use, then we can go from there, OK?

>>48103171
There's a reason why colors are split up in the first place. What I think you're trying to do is essentially make each color enemy to itself. Is that correct?

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>>48103171
I disagree somewhat with >>48103091. The color pie is flexible enough to support groups of the same color that are in opposition to each other. For instance, assume there is a kingdom. The king dies, and both of his sons lay a legitimate claim to the throne. Each gathers followers, who fight for their associated liege. Both groups could pretty easily be characterized as white. Groups of scholars fighting over rare magical artifacts in an ancient ruin could all be blue. Etc. There was even a cycle of color self-hate as recently as Theros.

The trick is, though, making those same-color factions mechanically distinct. It could be done, but I think it'd be pretty difficult.

>>48103091
>>48103253
The color pie is broad enough that you can indeed find contradictions within individual colors.

>>48103171
How's this for an outline:
One faction is all about noncreature cards. Even green can join the fun with enchantments-matter or lands-matter stuff. Perhaps use a delirium-like mechanic to reward playing with multiple card types.
The other faction is Creatures: The Tappening. More than just creature synergy, you can focus on things unique to creatures like combat and combat keywords.

>>48103203
Basically I wanted a plane where a good deal of it is essentially the Matrix. People are sheep kept in flocks by Angel constructs and enchantments meant to pacify them. The problem is, planes have to have all five colors to make the game make sense, so I had to either:

>a) design the "zoo" to accommodate all the colors within reason, because people act how they act
>b) make the "zoo" a certain set of colors and exclude everything else, and those colors basically want to tear it all down and restore freedom to those that don't have it, because the caretakers oppress the hell out of them for not being part of the program

I am waffling between the two. The first one means pitting all five colors against themselves/each other, and the second makes more clearcut factions. I started with the second idea, but wanted to see if the first was doable at all, since it seemed like something that wasn't likely to be done in a canon set.

>>48103253
Not exactly. See above. I just wanted to know if they could oppose themselves. If red could belong to two different ideologies, basically.

Honestly, after typing all that out, the first option seems silly since how do you make an idyllic society with black and red running around? Even blue would cause trouble more often than is healthy for the system. Maybe I should just go back to option b.

>>48103440
Interesting idea, and funny that you mention "enchantment matters" because I'm doing that. Oddly, the noncreature focus would fit alright with the "established order" faction since they would be in control of the "system" but severely outnumbered by their charges, since once something like that is in place, it doesn't take many people to keep it operating, respective to the number it affects. And the creature-centric idea could fit for the resistance, since creatures is basically their resource. I was looking at doing something kinda like this, but it wasn't exactly this solid. Hm.

>>48103521
White and blue would fit as jailers(lots of detainment, silence effects, etc.), and red/green seem to be the colors that would be the main ones trying to break free(artifact, enchantment hate). I'm not sure where black would go here.

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>>48103521
>Basically I wanted a plane where a good deal of it is essentially the Matrix.
...If this were any other thread, I probably would've ignored the rest of your post.
>People are sheep kept in flocks by Angel constructs and enchantments meant to pacify them.
...What? How? Whatever.

You should do what the Scars block did. The "herders" should be WU, all cold and emotionless. The "flock" should be BR, fiery and passionate. In the middle is Green. WU should focus on teamwork and control, BR should focus on individual creatures (saccing?) and aggression.

>>48103566
Well, Black and Red are both the most individualistic of colors. And Green is the color of "the pack." Hell, just look at Selesnya. They wanted to brainwash people.

>>48103566
Yeah under option two I already had the colors split one of two ways:

Bant v Grixis, with blue split between the "truthers" and those who refused to give up their positions because it allowed them unprecedented access to study the human condition. That kind of thing.

White, Green, and Blue vs Black and Red, with BR being the "heroes" of the set, basically. It'd be kinda strange, but it might work if you rationalized the aggression and destruction with essentially acts of insurgency. The problem is nobody can see a faction as being heroic without white, since WotC almost always paints them that way, even though they have had white villains in the past and I wanted to touch on that again.

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holy shite Brisela left, like, an atomic crater in my creativity I haven't been able to think of any cards since it was spoiled until now.

Anyways I tried to find ways to get more Morph effects into the set for mechanical interaction. Also mana fixing was important. Whadya think o' these (or some similar fusion morph/manafixer)? flavor will be worked on later if it sticks.

>>48103643
>The problem is nobody can see a faction as being heroic without white
You could always portray the conflict on both sides as being made up mostly of two or three colors, but just a few supporters in the other colors. Black would be interested in enslaving others, for example. Just look at Alara, even in Bant, the land of knights in shining armor, they still had their own dishonorable rogues.

>>48103613
>Matrix
Look, it was the easiest way to convey the notion. COanon you have this habit of being borderline dismissive regarding the smallest things. It's irksome sometimes. I appreciate all the feedback you give and the help you offer, and you don't have to like everything you see, but you don't have to look down your nose at it either.
>flocks
What I mean is that society is engineered. Everything you see or experience is part of a controlled environment. People don't live in pod connected to some artifact or something; it's like a huge city (think Ravnica) that has an administration that is very, very strict, and everything around you is purpose built to pacify you. The whole thing is an experiment by an oldwalker who has since abandoned it, so it's corroding and failing.

At least give things a bit of a chance before you switch on the dismissiveness man. Your color division suggestions makes some sense, so I appreciate that. But jaded as you may be, at least try to keep an open mind. We're not all Cooldown Guy for fuck's sake, and we're not trying to ruin the damn thread. We're people with ideas. Not all of them are good. But you seem very predisposed to thinking most of them are, sometimes.

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>>48103675
or this or etc.

>>48103713
Yeah, I thought maybe the Grixis/Bant thing would work, with a smattering of the other colors in each, but it also felt kinda strange with the color distribution. I wasn't sure how to give all the colors a fair shake, which is why I wanted to see if "5v5" would work out. It is very likely that it will not, so I'm back to dividing the colors.
>Bant
The caste system of Bant was what gave me the idea in the first place, to be honest. I just turned it up to 11. I imagined a world where the Bant ideal was cranked up, threw in some Selesnaya brainwashing, and stirred. It seemed like a good idea, with BR and whatever else trying to tear everything down.

Wait a sec. Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. Maybe instead of painting factions as good or bad I need to look at them as "exercising their wills" at each other. Like, Bant wants order, and the idyllic utopia. There are forces that don't want that. The Bant utopia really isn't, because people are basically sheep, but the howling chaos at the walls isn't exactly the good guy either, since it doesn't want better anything for anyone; it just wants to get rid of what's there. Which is kinda good for those inside actually, since they don't have freedom, but it comes at the cost of a lot of pain and misery.

I dunno. I'm also kinda tired. Maybe I should sleep on it.

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>>48103723
Eh, sorry. I'll try to work on that. I have to say though, it does seem odd that you'd use Matrix as an example when the hallmarks of the Matrix aren't being used. I think a better example would've been 1984, where the government redefined language in such a way as to make certain thoughts very difficult to reach.

And yeah, that reaction was a lot more directed at the Matrix than you. Not a fan, obviously. As much as I love sci-fi, I rarely enjoy any of the media because it's so often populated by stories set in a nonsensical world created merely to be a sounding board for the author's views on society and philosophy and other things. (I'm looking directly at you, Ayn Rand.) Speaking of which, I encourage you to never read Starship Troopers. It's basically just "Why Living Under a Military Dictatorship is Totes Awesome! by Robert A. Heinlein" with really shitty, bullshit, made-up examples to support his views. Oh yeah, and barely any of bug war action.

>>48103675
>>48103725
These just come off as weird to me. They also seem a touch too efficient since they both basically filter a single mana into blue, then give you a card, and whatever utility you might get from the artifact ETBing/being present.

>>48103868
Fair enough. 1984 is a much better analogy, yes. I should have just used the Bant description I used for the other anon, but I'm tired and cranky because my knee is messed up and has been for days and I worked 18+ hours in the last two days alone in a hot kitchen. I am sorry I snapped at you man.

So anyway, with that in mind, Bant "utopian" ideal that is old and failing, vs insurgency and the outsiders at the gates. Hm. I dunno how much it is like my original notion, but maybe it could be fun? I think the other problem too is that I am really into this enchantment matters stuff I've been doing, but I am not sure this is the right set for it. Maybe I should keep thinking of something till I find a thing that fits? I dunno.

>>48103675
>>48103725
4-of in modern storm since it's another free cantrip that also filters for U. The second one has the additional benefit of being able to precast and ramp you for a turn.

>>48103937
My two cents:

If you're making an engineered society, depending on how dark you want the setting to be, it might be Orzhov or Esper, rather than Bant. A Bant society is too full of Green's honesty to be manipulative; the citizens of a Bant society want to be a part of it, unless the UW parts so dominate that it becomes oppressive and cold. I think an Esper society would use Black to justify either straight deception or doublespeak to maintain itself, so that people think they're in a just society that's ultimately not.

Opposed to them would be a non-white cohort of rebels, who, for various reasons, buck the chains of order. Red and green anarchists, blue free-thinkers, and black warmongers.

But maybe it's just that I have a hard time imagining a Bant bad guy. They just feel too straight shooting to be villainous, unless they're so smugly self-righteous it hurts.

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>>48103937
So, you definitely want Bant to be the "order" side? Well, Black and Red are obviously "chaos" though I still can't quite figure who the middleman should be. A case could be made for either Green or Blue.

>knee
Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better soon.
>kitchen
What, you a cook?

>>48103988
>A Bant society is too full of Green's honesty to be manipulative; the citizens of a Bant society want to be a part of it
You wouldn't have to be manipulative though, at least in the execution. It's like what C.S. Lewis says about a tyranny made for its citizens. All you have to do is get a bunch of people at the top totally convinced that what they're doing is the right, morally just thing, and everything else falls into place.

>Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

I think G, W, and U would all buy into "This is best for you, you just don't know it yet" angle. Black, I think, is too self-aware to not see through the bullshit. They would know for a fact that they're manipulating people, which I think would put off White and probably Blue too.

>>48103988
>>48104055
But yes, Esper would be an Orwellian nightmare. It would be brutal, manipulative, and efficient. I guess it would come down to the drive of the group. Bant would have to think it was helping people. Esper wouldn't care, it wants the total order and power it gets from being so domineering. It would be like if Black took over the world, except people rarely die or get hurt.

>>48103988
Hm. I hadn't thought of using Esper. Your explanation is intriguing, and I'm mad now that I would have to borrow the idea and didn't think of it, but good on you. It's also fun because it puts a new spin on that color combo instead of just making "Bant 2: Bant Harder". I really like this idea, actually.

>>48103997
Well now I am looking at this Esper suggestion and damn if I don't like it lots. I dunno what it does to my enchantments matter thing though. Hm. Perhaps it's part of the whole; Black uses White and Blue to maintain control, using the same system I was thinking of, altered of course to be more imperfect and full of lies. Black wouldn't touch the enchantments themselves, which is why its precarious, and why it is starting to fail, since they have to rely on others to keep up the charade.
>kitchen
Yes, I'm a professional crazy person/masochist.
>Question
Not bad, and likes being combat tricked. The lack of evasion actually makes the prowess better; you want to throw stuff on it/at it to pump it up and make it evasive to get them cards.

>>48104115
>>48104109
>>48104055
>>48103988
Another thing about Esper is that since it's blue-centric, it creates an interesting issue where blue's amorality creates a system, and white and black bicker over it, basically. I dunno how well that'd work in the end; it seems like it'd be kind of a lame duck.

Though the additional thoughts on Bant are welcome and interesting too.

>>48104055
>You wouldn't have to be manipulative though, at least in the execution. It's like what C.S. Lewis says about a tyranny made for its citizens. All you have to do is get a bunch of people at the top totally convinced that what they're doing is the right, morally just thing, and everything else falls into place.
Yeah, I see what you're going for. Bant at its worst is the kind that swallows up countries and then destroys cultures by honestly believing its bringing prosperity, or outright xenophobia in the guise of moral superiority.

If you've ever read a book called City of Stairs, by Robert Jackson Bennett, this discussion brings to mind a particular semi-villainous god. He became so obsessed with the idea of sin and ordering lives that he eventually went somewhat insane, but he only became that way because people only came to him to be punished. The idea of sin and punishment may be more black than green, but I think its not unreasonable to say that, at the start, many people WANT to live in a society where someone else tells them what to do, even down to their morality.

>>48104109
I like to think of it as not quite overtly Orwellian nightmare. You see W and UW Angels all the time, and people whisper of Demons in hushed voices, but nobody actually believes they exist. They're a shadowy presence that lurks behind the scenes, and not every Angel is actually an Angel, blue being the color of deception and illusion after all. On the surface it's a utopia that has citizens that believe in law and order, but brutally enforces cultural norms through religion and law such that lawbreakers tend to commit suicide rather than be carted off in the night by demons.

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>>48104115
I definitely think the central color should be in control. Though... yeah, with Blue in control, there's no great reason for why things would be falling apart. Blue would go "OK, let's science this bitch and fix this shit." Going back to Bant however, would provide a justification. White and Green absolutely loathe anything that upsets the status quo. Once their shit started failing, their reaction would be "Hmm, this isn't working, probably because we're not praying enough." or something.

Yes, I'm a big fan of the color pie, how could you tell?

>>48104171
>not every Angel is actually an Angel
I like this idea. See, this is an excellent blend of lore and mechanics, using Blue's illusions like this.

Oh, and while we're talking about colors, I do want to stress that you can include all colors on each side, just make the non-central colors the outliers on that side. Again, Black would like to be in control of others for some power, but it would also find itself at odds with the incredibly rigid structure of the "watchers"

>>48104171
It's because peace is safe, and people crave safety. It's a pretty simple case for a society that has a lot of people willing going along with it.

I like your painting of an Esper society though, with shadowy conspiracy tangled with everyday life. It'd be like the tinfoil hats being right, and chemtrails being a thing, and all sorts of conspiracy tropes.

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>>48104171
Adding to what >>48104228 said: Bant would keep people in line with peace and happiness. People wouldn't revolt because then they'd have to give those things up. Esper would rule with fear. People wouldn't revolt because that guy down the street constantly shouting about chem-trails just up and disappeared one day, and you don't want to be next.

>>48104222
>blue illusions
See, I like this. The idea that not everything is what it seems, unless you WANT it to seem that way. Illusions are real if you believe hard enough.
>colors
Yeah, that's a good thought. So if Esper is in control, then that means it's opposed by Gruul essentially. Which is fine. There would be others though, as you say; black opportunists, white samaritans, blue "truthers". I dunno how I would make RG part of the society to balance things out, but it's possible I can just make them members of society first then assign color based on what they do. Green works with enchantments so if the enchantment matters theme sticks, then it'd be alongside white and blue working with that. Red likes violence so gangs and whatnot, or even enforcers working for the black aspect would work.

>>48104222
>I definitely think the central color should be in control. Though... yeah, with Blue in control, there's no great reason for why things would be falling apart. Blue would go "OK, let's science this bitch and fix this shit." Going back to Bant however, would provide a justification. White and Green absolutely loathe anything that upsets the status quo. Once their shit started failing, their reaction would be "Hmm, this isn't working, probably because we're not praying enough." or something.

Yeah, I agree that the problem with Esper is the lack of a good villain, or downfall. Of course, talking about angels and demons makes me think of a Rakdos or Jund pseudo-Lucifer, who demands that society stop thinking and feel, damnit, as he shifts from W Angel to RB Demon.

>>48104312
Funnily enough I had plenty of plans for off-colored Angels that rebelled against the plans of the authority when they found out how bad things were gonna get. So something like this could work too.

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>>48104312
I just want to remind you that Wizards made Archons specifically to cover White's less hero-y traits. In Theros, they once dominated the plane with the help of the pious Leonin.

>>48104286
Esper would rule with fear. People wouldn't revolt because that guy down the street constantly shouting about chem-trails just up and disappeared one day, and you don't want to be next.
In my head, I'm still thinking less "secret police" Orwellian and more "suffer not a witch" Orwellian. It's not blue-centered Esper, but a white-centric Esper, if that makes any sense.

The chem-trail man goes missing because a mob takes him and burns his house in the night for preaching heresy that goes against the Church of All That Is Good and Righteous and everyone either pats themselves on the back. Or says that demons "made" them do it, but only in hushed tones when they think nobody is listening, because demons don't exist, you silly people.

It's white and blue manifesting as the worst of the Azorius, of law and order at the expense of feeling, and white and black manifesting as religion for the sake of power, and a community that thrives on blood and sacrifice while praising its supposed innocence, and blue and black manifesting as the truth that lurks within the shadows, and the deception that everyone hides behind to exist in society.

Well, what would people rather see, ultimately? An Esper shadow government, Orwellian and cruel as they are just? Domineering? And Gruul and friends looking to tear them down?

Or Bant v2, where things are taken to an extreme, and the outliers (BR), as well as some inside the system, are trying to crack it open and re-introduce freedom?

I honestly like both. The enchantment-matters stuff is a bit easier with Bant, but I can make it work either way. Esper has more opportunity for genuine villainy though, whereas Bant is more "nobody is really right, because both sides have half the proper equation for a healthy society".

>>48104409
"Burn the witch" strikes me as RW. WUB wouldn't like being so open. RW just wouldn't care. "Yeah, I burned that fucker, what're you going to do about it?" versus "What? No, I'm certain he'll turn up again in a few days."

>>48104445
Mmmm, true. It IS a little emotional for an Esper society. Burn at the Stake being a red card and all that, and acting on your fear being a red trait.

I just dislike Big Bad Orwell because it seems so... overplayed. Like the glut of YA fiction after Hunger Games made me tired of "My First Dystopia" writing.

>>48104469
Yeah but as told through Magic cards and story not aimed at the YA magical realm might help make it more palatable.

Also, I thought maybe R could be represented as gladiators in the city who are owned by those aligned with black to placate the masses with games, but on the side some of them are used as enforcers and thugs as well.

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>>48104469
>I just dislike Big Bad Orwell because it seems so... overplayed. Like the glut of YA fiction after Hunger Games made me tired of "My First Dystopia" writing.
Now you understand my pain. And it's especially annoying when authors try to make some sort of social statement, like using clones or androids as a plot device to tell everyone that slavery is bad. I mean, yeah, I kinda knew that already. We even had a big war over it over a hundred years ago. Pretty violent, lotta people died, kinda hard to forget.

But I digress. I'm voting that the "watcher" faction be Bant. It's a lot easier to make them sympathetic and use their own flaws to create problems. And probably Grixis for the opposing faction, since Blue isn't that into cognitive dissonance and finds it hard to say that 2+2=5.

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>>48104516
>Yeah but as told through Magic cards and story not aimed at the YA magical realm might help make it more palatable.
Definitely true. I'm just partial to "villainous" cultures where the citizens are implicit in their own jail; Orwell done poorly just seems like mustache twirling villains, as competent as they are, while Orwell done well should seem like society has wrapped themselves in their own surveillance blanket, a la Red Scare.

But I'm off to bed. Good discussion, guys, I really enjoyed it. Have a pun card to lighten up the thread.

>>48104548
>>48104469
Oh, adding to >>48104516 R are the entertainers. They're the bread and circuses to keep people's minds off the important things, like the fact that their tech is falling apart or something.

>>48104548
>Bant+Grixis
Well, back to square one if that's the case. Which is fine. The story just ends up being a tragedy, since both sides hold half the key to a healthy society, but they are too wrapped up in their extremism to see it or join forces, so it has to be conflict.

The only issue with featuring two shard factions as the main players is that I'm not sure how I'd do the color distribution to make sure they all get a fair shake. I could use gold cards sparingly, some for Bant, some for Grixis, and some for UG, WU, WG and BR, UR, and UB? Would that make a healthy Limited environment? It's how I had everything broken up at first before I went full retard and look at the "5v5" thing.

I like the art for the Mind Control reprint.

>>48097749
+1 is fine
-3 could be -2 if you add nonland. Still hits pretty much everything but can be used more often without being too powerful.
Ultimate is a bit on the strong side I'd make the bird tokens 3/3.

Overall pretty good design.

>>48104838
I'M NUCLEAR I'm WIIIIIILLLLLLDDD!!!!!

>>48086841
no way in hell thats any bit fair
typical green white players wanting to break the game more then it already is. Giving shitters like you an inch was the biggest mistake wizards ever committed. Yes, worse then the reserve list.

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>>48102354
Here are the planeswalkers I designed for these decks. What do you guys think. Too powerful? Too weak?

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alllrighty manafix mana rock commons first draft

>>48105778
I like them. They're representative of the mechanics in their colors and are useful for mana fixing.

>>48105778
2 life is really lackluster compared to the rest of these.

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>>48105113

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>>48105810
2 life gain on turn 1 is considerable with the set's mechanics. May swap to 1 damage to each opponent & gain 1 life. Seems slightly better. Also might change the mechanic itself later so who knows.

>>48105836
It'd be ok if the other's weren't really powerful. Hijart in particular is basically a non thought to pick up.

>>48105855
Do you think it'd be acceptable doing 1 targeted damage & gaining 1 life?

>>48105888
I guess? I'm of the opinion that the rest are a little too high in power myself.

>>48105903
I'll probably up the costs.

>>48105752
Anything interesting is lost amidst the walls of text. Also way too many templating errors. You need to read more magic cards, specifically their oracle text and not just what's on the physical cards.

>>48106016
"Way too many templating errors" doesn't tell me what they are how to fix them, anon. I accept the "too much text" criticism, but I couldn't figure out a way to do what I wanted in a less wordy way.

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thx for feedback. Ye these feel a fair bit nicer.

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>>48106066
also hey another common idea. Faction is a group of peaceful artist-wizards forced into fighting so yeah trying to explore how that would appear mechanically.

>>48106093
A worse Seal of Strength, but it's colorless so I guess it's ok? I would only put this into a set if there was an Equipment subtheme.

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>>48106119
thought of an interesting way to work it into the faction's mechanics. It fits. Might stick.

>>48106128
It could just be an Aura and re-flavored.

>>48106141
Possible. Will consider.

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Thoughts on this? Yes, in theory it could snowball out of control but it does nothing the turn you play it and has no protection whatsoever.

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>>48106394
and his little friend

>>48104222
Why not just have him phase out?

>>48107660
Because Phasing is dead. And regardless of anyone's opinions, I'm only sticking to evergreen keywords and actions.

I just feel like you're using alot of lines of text for an ability that doesn't seem to represent the character very well. I feel like there could be some interesting design space for a creature with first strike (or double strike) and a phase-out/phase in ability.

>First Strike
>COST: CARDNAME phases in or out. CARDNAME can use this ability while phased out.

It would be kind of neat to have a card that could deal the first bit of combat damage then phase out before the regular combat damage lands, and it would feel very "Nightcrawler" to me. Just being able to use it to escape and not for any offensive purpose doesn't really feel right (and makes the card not very red, for that matter)

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>>48108639
It did originally have DStrike, but another anon said it wasn't needed. I'll have a look at it again later, I haven't really worked on it in a while.

As for Phasing, my answer is still is and always will be no. And nothing you say will convince me to use it on him. I'm sorry, but I'm not using any keyword or action that isn't evergreen. Reprints, fine, but not original cards.

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How's this for a mechanic?

>>48109368
Kind of boring unless you specifically have facedown versus just token support. Also going to need highish costs to support the fact that all you're paying is mana. It's like monstrous but with no lasting effect.

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>>48109816
Would removing the token bit improve gameplay in your opinion?

>>48110363
only black gets gold tokens, make this black and it is fine

>>48110363
>>48110751
Wait, so getting Gold is a problem, not Red getting card draw with no downsides?

>>48110751
Your comment is the absolute epitome of what I hate about these threads. The casual absolutism, dogmatic adherence to precedence, and the fucking arrogance to present your preconceptions as fact, to quash creative ideas. Red gets artifact support. Red gets eggs. Red gets ritual-style mana. Every single fucking thing about gold tokens is red. But no, just because the mechanic is new enough that it hasn't shown up outside of its one-off representation in black, you have to go and declare it off-limits. Reductionist card design is BORING. Wizards tries new things ALL THE TIME. That's how and why the game is still popular and interesting after all these years. No, I'm not advocating doing anything blatantly out of color, but as a designer, you should have a feel for the color pie and what acceptable and interesting jumps in design are, while still staying within the limits of individual color identity. This is one of them.
>>48110363
I realize that I just went on a tirade defending your use of this mechanic in red. This mechanic IS red. This card, however, is not. Red doesn't straight draw cards unless it's cantripping, and since the draw is the bulk of the effect here, it can't really be called a cantrip. Add some discard to the effect, and it'll be fine.

>>48110751
What colors would get gold tokens?

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feedback?

>>48111129
Red/black according to /tg/.

>>48111129
It's so new that as long as you could justify it in flavor, I think it would be fine. One anon had a Blue counterspell that flavorfully turned a creature into gold.

Like with White, if you could make it look like alms or something, that would be cool.

>>48111263
>Hammond
Not sure if the first is worded correctly, but the second definitely isn't, as it won't even trigger most of the time. Why not? Well, anon, where do creature spells come from? It's not from the graveyard.

>Mavron
Eh... not really my cuppa tea.

>Ornuk
Intimidate is dead, use Menace instead. Though I would cut it entirely and just stick with Haste.

>Stolen Cargo
Needs to be reworded completely. Why exile in a pile if you get to choose which of the cards goes into the hand? Also, as it is now, you can have players discard forever because it doesn't check to see if you still have cards exiled with it.

>Treasure Seeker
The last option really sucks.

>Forbidden Riches
Would people actually use this? Regardless, I don't get the flavor. Feels more like European tales about Dragons to me.

>>48111263
>>48112094
Oh, another thing about Treasure Seeker: Don't force players to play tribal and tack downsides on top of that. Playing tribal is already a downside.

>>48110973
>>48110923

Better? Originally the previous card was blue which is why there was card draw.

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>>48113456

>>48113539
Maaayybe if artifacts matter in your environment. Otherwise it's a ritual that nets you negative mana.

>>48113539
Looking good.

>>48113797
Also, you can save the Gold for later. Cast a 6 CMC spell on turn 4.

>>48113924
So does Vessel of Volatility, but it also nets you a positive amount of mana. Casting this feels bad, which is not something you want to happen with commons in a set. Veteran players may look at it and say, "Well, the potential tempo boost might be worth the net loss in mana," but I worry that your new players would just generally be disappointed that they pulled this.

Of course, we're speaking of hypotheticals now. Perhaps I take set design too seriously.

>>48114109
>>48113539
An exception would be if you had plunders-matter cards. "Whenver you plunder," etc. etc. It may feel parasitic, but often it's imperative to the creation and perpetuation of set cohesion. Just look at investigate for some recent similar examples.

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>>48113539
>>48114109
I'd say compare it to Manamorphose.

It's essentially a colorfixing spell more than a ritual. Manamorphose is hybrid, and cantrips, but the mana must be spent immediately. Keeping in mind that the Gold can be saved for later, there's a tradeoff there that justifies leaving off the cantrip, but the effect still isn't strong enough to be 3 mana instead of 2. It should be fair at 1R.

>>48114233
Always liked this one. Very clever design, spoked wheel anon. But why Avatar? Why not Knight?

>>48114297
Why Knight? Why not Avatar?

>>48114297
The creature type itself isn't something I'm really settled on one way or the other. I went with Avatar kind of off the cuff because it seemed fitting with the flavor, and I didn't have strong incentives to pick another type.

>>48114323
There are knights in the art, and knights are associated with kings.

>>48114356
Halls don't generally morph into knights, though. Nor is the inverse common. Halls having a spiritual power or presence is a pretty common trope, though. I would say Avatar illustrates that nicely.

>>48114356
>>48114386
The flavor is more geared towards the some aspect of the King's lingering influence in the Hall itself performing a deed worthy of reminding the people of their Forgotten King.

It could also be a Spirit, I guess, but the likely scenario to imagine is the statue of the king coming to life as his Avatar to do something.

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Well, now that we're past the gold debate and the Knight/Avatar thing, how do you guys feel about helping me get this ability sorted? I'm thinking about adding an N value to it, so that one creature can generate more than one mana upon its death, but I'm not sure. Balance is a concern.

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>>48114233
>>48114214
>>48114109
>>48113797
I was thinking it was more so a ramp from 3-4 to 5-6 for a turn. But I guess I forgot a bout confusing newer players.

Definely something to work on, and yes I would have plunder matters in R/B, maybe one or two blue/white cards with plunder if it fit's flavorfully.

Which version of Unveil would you prefer to play with?

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>>48114386
>Halls don't generally morph into knights, though
No fucking shit.

>>48114432
If the statue is doing something, why is it not an artifact creature?

>>48114795
I know those cards exist, anon. I'm just of the opinion that their flavor translates poorly. It feels more like they want to be putting out tokens, but couldn't due to balance considerations.
>>48114815
It seems to me like it's the spirit or essence of the forgotten king that's doing the thing, anon. But flavor can't always translate directly from mechanics, sometimes mechanical simplicity has to take precedence.
>>48114779
The first. The third is all reward; it eliminates decision making, which leads to stale gameplay. The second just turns exile into a second hand, which is boring. The first is interesting, allowing for interesting gameplay decisions. Although I'm not sure how I feel about a whole group of spells cast as special actions; you might want to work on the timing restrictions.

>>48114815
It doesn't necessarily want to be an artifact creature mechanically.

>>48112465
I assume made in response to the Ishkanah spoiler?

>>48114779
The first. Second seems like yugioh. Third seems weird putting a token on the battlefield with it.

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I saw this art and wanted to try and make a card out of it and tried to keep the power level reasonable. Thoughts?

>>48114914
>Although I'm not sure how I feel about a whole group of spells cast as special actions; you might want to work on the timing restrictions.
The only thing it "breaks" is Split Second, which with Krosan Grip and Teferi shenanigans, since you can only take special actions any time you have priority, and Kheru Spellsnatcher and that other morph-counter guy who I forget the name of didn't make that many waves.

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>>48115475
>>48114914
Better?

What reasons are there for not utilizing phase out technology? The only problem I can recall being told is that it's a term that is used somewhere else in the game(main phase, combat phase, etc).

>>48115724
It confused players more than it provided a mechanical benefit.

>>48115724
There's also really not much point using it when you can just use exile as a temporary zone anyway. And yeah, it's confusing as fuck.

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>>48115397
I would have stitched them together, but I just made this.

>>48115714
I would say yes. I like this quite a lot now. I feel like there's plenty of interesting design space their to explore.

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>>48115397
You need to have a clause that checks to see whether or not it's already a token.

>>48114914
>It seems to me like it's the spirit or essence of the forgotten king that's doing the thing, anon.
Then why not make it a spirit?
>But flavor can't always translate directly from mechanics, sometimes mechanical simplicity has to take precedence.
I would accept this were it not for the fact that it's very easy to have it fit the flavor. We have precedence for how manlands act, and we have relevant types to represent the different things that the land could turn into.

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>>48115434
>all keyword abilities
Wrong. Try again.

>>48115897
Not really. It's less like this and more like Experiment Kraj.

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>>48115821
But you can't do this with exiling.

>>48115873
>Then why not make it a spirit?
Firstly, it isn't my card. Secondly, why spirit? What is so wrong with the Avatar subtype that you would suggest a change to a type so flavorfully similar? Sometimes I feel like people in these threads suggest change for the sake of change, even when it isn't needed. Sometimes "Hey, that's a cool card" should be enough.
>I would accept this were it not for the fact that it's very easy to have it fit the flavor.
That would require your opinion to infringe upon the agency of the designer. There is little to no functional difference dependent upon the tribe of the associated manland, so to say that your preferred tribe is somehow more appropriate than the one that the designer chose is to say that your opinion of how the card should be designed holds more weight than its designer's. It's his card, he shouldn't and doesn't have to change it to fit with your flavor preferences.

>>48091317
>>>48088137
>What is the purpose of this?
Snapcaster Mage. (?)

>>48089409
They don't.

>>48116111
What? This is basically the new version of the O-Ring ability combined with Haunt.

>>48116163
>Secondly, why spirit?
You're the one who said spirit.
>What is so wrong with the Avatar subtype that you would suggest a change to a type so flavorfully similar?
What does an avatar have to do with a forgotten king? An avatar is the representation of an idea, a concept. Making it a Knight who served the king or the Spirit of that king makes far more sense.
>That would require your opinion to infringe upon the agency of the designer.
What are you, a libertarian? It's called feedback. All I'm saying is "Hey, Avatar doesn't really make much sense here. Do you have a flavor reason for it? Because I think Knight would fit much better." That's literally it.
>It's his card, he shouldn't and doesn't have to change it to fit with your flavor preferences.
Yes. And yet here you are, making it sound like I'm trying to enslave him or some shit by voicing my opinion. If that anon came back and said "Look, I want to keep it as an Avatar." that would be it. I wouldn't really like it, but I wouldn't harass the guy until he changed it. I would be curious as to why he kept it as an Avatar, but that's it.

>>48116374
You can't stack the soul abilities if you use exile.

1. I play Soul Critter 1.
2. I play Soul Critter 2 and have it gobble Soul Critter 1. It now has its own soul ability in addition to Soul Critter 1's soul ability.
3. I play Soul Critter 3 and have it gobble Soul Critter 2. Soul Critter 3 now has three soul abilities.

>>48116467
The main problem in using phasing is that it isn't just pseudo-exile, it's literally removing a card from the game temporarily.
Phasing specifically says "while this is phased out, it's treated as though it doesn't exist", so it can't be doing anything when it's phased out because it literally doesn't exist at all in any zone within the game for that time.
Haunt uses exile instead of phasing for a reason, and it seems to me like you could just use Haunt instead of this "ensoul" phasing variant.

>>48089654
>>48089644
>>48089632
>>48089627
>>48089610

I just looked through your cards and I really like them. Just thought I'd let you know.

>>48116513
>it seems to me like you could just use Haunt instead of this "ensoul" phasing variant.
But I can't, and I explained why. If a Soul Critter left the battlefield, it would lose its gained soul abilities and it would also caused any gobbled up Soul Critters to be released.

>>48116374
>You're the one who said spirit.
I didn't mean spirit as in the subtype, I meant that the spirit or the essence of the king coalesces into a force of its own, which then acts. An avatar of the king's will, if you will.
>What does an avatar have to do with a forgotten king? An avatar is the representation of an idea, a concept.
In this case, it would me a representative manifestation of the king in question.
>Here you are, making it sound like I'm trying to enslave him or some shit by voicing my opinion.
Maybe I overreacted. I just too often see people present their feedback as some kind of absolute fact which must be adhered to, or designers who similarly assert that their cards are without flaw. It's frustrating on both ends. The "not harassing the guy until he changes it" bit just feels like a rare occurrence. I apologize.
>>48116602
Maybe try using encode, like some kind of creature-based cipher variant? Soul Creature 1 encodes upon 2, then 1 and 2 both encode upon 3, and so on. Sounds like a bit of a rules nightmare, though, so good luck to you.

>>48100271
Ha ha! I like the flavor on this one.

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I didn't have a particularly strong reason to go with Avatar, so I'll just go with Spirit since it seems to feel more natural to more people.

Opens up some tribal interactions, but I don't think it's a power level concern.

>>48116589
Seriously, man, thanks. Set design can feel like pretty thankless work at times, so I really appreciate you taking the time to look through them, and I'm really glad that you enjoyed them.

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>>48115873
whoops, good catch. Also changed the mana cost to be a little harder to cast, and fit better with the flavor.

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>>48116726
>Set design can feel like pretty thankless work at times
This. So much this. I mean in the end you're making the set for you, but you really do want other people to like it. You hope they do, because the idea of someone playing and enjoying your set makes you happy, because you made something good. But I don't think many people get excited about sets anymore, and so it becomes harder to motivate yourself to stick with it. I mean nobody ASKED you to make a set, but given the nature of the community, it's basically low demand, high expectations, which is probably the hardest situation to wade through successfully. Not everyone is gonna like what you're doing, but it helps if at least more than a few do.

I for one did, for the most part Timeanon. Not that anon, but again, kudos. I hope I can follow suit and finish my current set, then look to the next one waiting in the wings, which the thread has so graciously helped me lay some serious foundations for. It felt good to know I was on the right track with it, at least in part. Glad I gave up on the dead-end concept I was also considering for it, thanks to feedback.

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Tried to make a card out of my longstanding D&D character. Technically a half-elf, but no rules support for that outside human elf, which I'm not gonna do for many reasons. Is he balanced at all?

>>48116696
Look, for all the conversation about the card, it is still your card, I do agree with the other guy on that. If you want it to be an Avatar, that's up to you. However, I do think it's obvious here to viewers that the Soul is meant to be that of the king in a way that is much easier to understand than using Avatar.

...Jesus, I feel like half of a feuding couple telling their son it's not his fault mommy and daddy are splitting up, and he should live out his life the way he wants.

>>48116735
Well, it doesn't necessarily need Black at all. Though I will point out that having an ability that looks at all lands an ability that loojs for a specific type of land strikes me as mechanically inconsistent.

>>48116774
I'm surprised this doesn't look at hand sizes. Or at least mill beforehand.

>>48116889
It's "can't be blocked" now, but otherwise, hm. Stealing lands is kinda strange. I would get rid of that bit. Other than that, sure, why not. Not a fan of the mana cost on the ability, but that's a nitpick at most.

>>48116889
It feels weird that he doesn't play for keeps. The rest is OK though. Should be "~ can't be blocked this turn" though. I'm also unsure of why you're avoiding making it a Human Elf. It doesn't look like a Mary Sue, if that's what you're afraid of.

>>48116821
Thanks, savageanon. I appreciate that. And I'm happy that your Bant 1984 idea is developing nicely. I look forward to seeing what you do with it.
>Memory Flood
That seems like a blast to play. I really dig it. Lots of decisions to make, very interactive. Great card.

>>48116993
I've actually decided on the factions/color distro so that feels nice to be finished with. But I can't get too into it lest I neglect Omelette Madness.
>Bant 1984
Okay that's the new working title. Thanks for that. I have a name for the plane already but this is too funny not to use.

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>>48116914
No, it's fine. This is why Development and Creative exist in proper Magic, because it's not always obvious to Design what the details of the card should be once it's been mechanically sorted out.

>>48116889
"~ can't be blocked this turn."
I'd just make it 2 generic to activate rather than the fancy mana cost.

>>48116821
Don't have it target if you want the repeat process to work. It's a neat concept, but 3 cmc only means it'll see play in EDH.

>>48116735
Forest (and all other subtypes) are always capitalized. I'd change the Forest in the name to Wood or Grove or something similar.

>>48116821
I feel like this would be banned in Comnander. Just set up a situation where it's hard to target you, and let your opponents tear each other apart.

>>48116821
>>48117130
Wait, you have to pay the cost? Never mind. Still would be interesting in Commander though.

>>48117105
Ah, I see the issue, since targets need to be chosen before the spell resolves. I'll change it to "choose", same as your opponent gets, thanks.
>too expensive
Yeah? I figured three mana was about right for something like this. 2R instead as a bit of an adjustment? It'll be in a multicolor set, after all.

>>48117158
It doesn't compare very favourably to recoup or past in flames.

>>48116973
Not afraid of Mary Sue-ness. Main issue is just that "Legendary Creature - Human Elf Rogue" Is really clunky on the type line. I may try it, though, if only because his half-elf blood is really important to his personal story.

>>48117195
Fair enough. I'll go with 2R instead to make it a bit easier to use. The idea is it's pretty build-around, yeah. Mostly meant to be a fun card, which I think red should have at least one of per set.

>>48116973
>>48117197
Also, as for the not playing for keeps, I just thought that being able to steal things for good that frequently would be broken. If design nerds don't agree, I'd def change it.

>>48117232
Well, it does need to be balanced for it. Maybe you gain control only as long as you control Taurumus? Eh... as for types, look at Vorel.

>>48117232
If you let it steal multiple, then you have to remove the ability to take lands.

>>48117425
This seems fairly abusable. It also gives the sorceries Flash effectively too, doesn't it? Effects like this trip me up sometimes with how they affect when you can cast such spells. I would assume so since it says you can.

>>48117510
Correct. Any time you have permission to cast a spell, you may do so regardless of card types.

>>48085952
Why is this green and not red?

File: Abhorrent Vandals.jpg (46KB, 375x523px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 375x523px

>>48117510
Was sort of a joke card as a mockery of collected company. I'd honestly cost it at 5+.

>>48089409
More accurately, they never did. Lords weren't typed as the tribe they supported. They were typed as lords.

>>48118105
>five goblins in the art
>produces 4 tokens
...

>>48096425
this is white how?

Fireworks keeping me up all night edition!

NT: >>48118310
NT: >>48118310
NT: >>48118310
NT: >>48118310
NT: >>48118310

>>48105059
>No one has land ever again.
I love land destruction, but this is basically making lands not exist. Tone this the fuck down.

>>48118187
I can see it because of the convoke.