What does /tg/ think of Space Dwarfs?

>>48035803
I like to think of them as having hoard world's, fortresses and banks combined, from which mining fleets leave and return to.

Over the years the entire planet has been mined and converted into vaults and mazes.

>>48035852
Are they rich enough to buy GW?

>>48035871
He'll they have a planet gilded in gold, I'm sure they have enough; though this is gw even a golden globe wouldn't be enough.

>>48035988
That's the throne world, the innermost planer in the primary holds, the planet over the generations has been covered in a layer of Au and created by artisans in the stories of the ancestors. Pilgrims travel the history of the SD as the walk throughout the walkways and caverns, carved in the likeness of thier for father's and mothers.

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>>48035803

Execute.

>>48035803
Honestly?

I feel like they were "forced" into the setting without a real niche to occupy. Ogres, Orcs, and Elves were easy to port over, as they made relative sense and could be easily explained in the fluff (Ogryns, Orks, and Eldar).

Squats, just...didn't fit. They didn't offer anything different from the Imperium besides being short, which already existed in the form of Ratlings.

I think that, if they weren't a necessary removal, they were at least a completely justifiable one.

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Pretty fucking rad

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>>48037355

>>48037412
It still irks me to see dwarves with no beard.
Like, I'd accept those models if they at least had the British Whole face moustache thing. But to me it just makes them seem off.

>>48037315
>They didn't offer anything different from the Imperium besides being short

Their "thing" was massive siege engines....which couldn't be fielded in 40k.

>>48038396
They also did technology well, not being retarded but like the dwarf engineers guild they did it reliably but without innovation.

>>48039654
Still better than the autistic martians

>>48038363
Those beardless ones are called brokkrs. They are considered to be weirdos anyway.

>>48035803
>Space Dwarfs
meh
I like 'staches and beards, I guess?

>Squats
It digged the pionner aspect, the bikers, the constant struggle against the orks, the desertic planets.
The repurposing of civilian tech to go to war.
The engineer guilds/living ancestors/fortresses reminding me of some sort of soft mafia.
In the end, I feel like it was the most american faction.

>>48039654
>without innovation
They invented warp fission, though.

squats are a symbol of what made gw great during it's peak in the 80s-90s.

a friend had a squat army back then, one of the aesomest units he had were surfer dudes on hover boards.

>>48038396
And bikes and trikes! That silly manoeuvre where they do a 180 degree turn, pointing their rear-facing gun at the enemy, was pretty fun. Gimmicky, but fun.

Feels like the Squats mostly got killed off because, once you take away the few things they had that were unique, they occupied the same sort of design space as the Imperial Guard. The changes to the game in third edition (forever may it be cursed, etc. etc.) covered the coffin they were shoved into in second edition in concrete.

That and the models were kinda goofy looking.

>>48040232
>2004 forum post by Jervis Johnson

I know I shouldn't get drawn on this... but... can't... resist

Seriously, a couple of points just so you can have an informed debate based on the real reasons that Squats are no longer available. Be warned, it is going to be hard reading for people that like the Squat background.

First of all, Squats were *not* dropped because they were not selling well. There were then, and are now, plenty of other figure ranges that sell in the sort of % quantities that the Squats pulled down, especially when you look across all of the ranges produced by GW rather than just those for 40K.

No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what *were* we thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K. We only fully realized what we had done when we were working on the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't work up much enthusiasm for the Squats. The mistake we made then (deeply regretted since) was to leave them in the background and the 'get you by' army list book that appeared. With hindsight, we should have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on.

1/3

>>48040511

Anyway, the Squats made it into 2nd edition, and since we were doing army books for each of the races, we started to try and figure out what to do with them. Unfortunately we just couldn't figure out a way to update them and get them to work that we felt was good enough. The 'art' of working on an army as a designer is to find the thing that you think is cool and exciting about an army, and work it up into a strong theme. This 'muse' didn't strike any of us, and so, rather than bring out a second-rate product simply re-hashing the old background, we kept doing other army books instead, with stuff we did feel inspired by.

Now, while this was all going on for 40K, we were actually doing some rather good stuff for the Squats in Epic. On this scale there was a natural tendency to focus on the big 'hand-made' war machines the Squat artisans produced, and this created an army with a feel that was very different to the biker hordes in 40K. However, this tended to reinforce the problems we saw in the Squat background rather than alleviate them, underlining what we *should* have done with the Squats in 40K.

In the end (and it took years to really get to the roots of the problem) this led to a realisation that we were going to have to drop the Squats in their 'Squat' form from the 40K background. There was little point having a major race that we weren't willing to make an army book for, and their inclusion in the background meant that people kept asking us when we'd do a Squat Codex. Instead we decided that we'd write the Squats out of the background by saying that their Homworlds had been devoured by a Tyranid Hivefleet. This would give us the option in the future to return to making a race based on the Squat archetype for 40K. This race was given the name of Demiurg, and a certain amount of preliminary work was done to get a 'feel' for what the race would be like. At present the only hint of the Demiurg in 40K is the Demiurg spaceship for BFG.

>>48040521
(3/3)
However, we do have this race 'in our back pocket' as a possible new race for 40K, or an interesting character model in Inquisitor, or whatever. So far the Demiurg have lost out to other projects, and it may be that their time never actually comes, as they will have to win through on their merits, not simply because we once made some Squat models in the past. At present, I have to say that it is more likely that they *don't* make the cut than do, as there is a certain prejudice these days to simply taking races from Warhammer and cross them over to 40K like we did in the early days, so it may be that the Squats/Demiurg end up remaining a footnote in the history of the 40K galaxy. Only time will tell...

I'll finish off by saying that whatever we decide to do 'officially', there is nothing stopping players with Squat armies from using them, either in Epic or 40k for that matter. There is no GW 'rule' against using old Citadel Miniatures, as long as you use them with existing army lists and in a way that won't cause confusion for other players. I recommend taking a positive stand by saying "Have you seen these cool old models? They're called the Squats and GW used to make them back in the late eighties/early nineties. I love 'em, so I count them as Imperial Guard and use them with the current rules..." Put like this I can't imagine that anyone would stop you from using your army.

Best regards,

Jervis Johnson
Head Fanatic

>>48037315
Logically, people engineered to be small make more sense for space exploration, and for combat in near-future where low-profile is more important than being intimidating.

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If I were to reboot the Squats, I'd make them a faction of fleet bound space miner abhumans, that have no homeworld, and only exit in various, rag tag fleets and in fortress like space stations that orbit lonely suns.
I'd make them a faction whose origins is in the Dark Age of Technology, and who possess poorly understood powerful technology, but extremely few numbers. Unlike the admech, who have the whole tech cult, the space dwarfs/squats/whatever wouldn't really worship technology in itself, however they would still revere it to some degree. Because of countless generations of living in space, being able to maintain, and sometimes, jury rig technology that is keeping them alive, they would have a very pragmatic view of technology, willing to adapt it into new functions, change it (to the best of their abilities), and even adopt alien technologies, if they get them working.

Army wise, I'd make them be generally powerful, but few in number and slow to move. Basic infantry would be squat guys in armored space suits, with powerful weaponized mining tools, like laser cutters, explosive launchers, drills etc. Think marine equivalent armor, but less mobility. Maybe give them all slow and purposeful by default. Some elite infantry could be jetback units, for more mobility (space suits with jetbacks), and even heavier space suits, equipped with heavy weapons, like massive laser cannons (for cutting up asteroids etc).
They would also wield a lot of remotely piloted weaponized mining robots (no AI), as their heavy support units, which would fill the role of their tanks for the most part. They wouldn't have wheeled vehicles so if the vehicle in question doesn't have legs, it would fly instead. Their transport unit would be a some sort of orbital VTOL landers, evolved from vehicles intended to scout large asteroids, and deliver mining crew on site.

Aesthetic wise, they would be rather bulky, heavily industrialized looking, with a lot of ducktape keeping it all together.

As of 6e Squats were canon again, they were still butt fucked by Tyranids though. So now there are two races of space dwarfs, one human and one alien (Demiurg). This could be a good rivalry.

>>48037315
>didn't fit
Given how little was set into stone & how Necrons used to be Chaos Androids, I question how they couldn't be adapted.

>>48044604
>Necrons used to be Chaos Androids
Metal skeletons aren't unique. Chaos Androids are made by Chaos Squats, and are daemon engines.

>>48045146
Neither are space bugs, Elves, etc. The Necrons used to be something very different. Many things were different. If changes like that & Oldcrons to Newcrons were allowed, I see no reason to why the Squats can't have something similar.

>>48045500
I like the Squats, I was just saying. By all means, give them and Chaos Squats a revamp.

>>48045615
They need a revamp. I'm surprised that the Tyranids didn't provide an opportunity for a revamp. It can easily be seen as an excuse to literally destroy the old & have the survivors do their own grimdark thing to survive.

>>48044062
I like to think that the fleet sent to "help" the squats after the nids were there showed up in system, scanned the surface for structures, and went "whelp, nothing left. Poor bastards" and left. Not aware, or not caring that squats build subterranean holds...

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>>48043955
Some more ideas, because I got nothing better to do.

Squat Miner (infantry)
Bs 3 Ws 3 S 3 T 3 W1 I 2 A 1 Ld 8 Sv 3+

Special Rules:
Stubborn, Relentless

Basic weapon:
Laser cutter
Range 24'' Strength 5 AP 4 Rapid Fire
>Weaponized handheld mining laser intended for cutting off ore.

Specialist weapons:
Stake Launcher
Range 18'' Strength 6 AP 3 Rapid Fire
Concussive, Armorbane
>Weaponized handheld mining tool, that launches steel tipped stake like rods, filled with explosives, which embed themselves at targets, and detonate on command.

Mining Laser
Range 30" Strength 9 AP 2 Heavy 1
Lance
>Heavy mining tool, intended for cutting trough the surface of asteroids

Heavy Stake Launcher
Range 24" Strength 6 Ap 3 Salvo 2/3
Concussive, Armorbane
>A larger version of the stake launcher, that can launch it's charges at greater power.

Pistols:
Stake Pistol
Range 12"
Strenght 6 Ap3 Pistol
Concussive, Armorbane
>Smallest type of Stake launchers.

Plasma Torch
Range 12" Strenght 8 Ap 2 Pistol
Melta, Gets Hot
>Handheld mining tool intended for melting trough hardy obstacles.


Melee weapons:

Power Pick
S+1 AP 3 Melee
Unwieldy
>The mainstay mining tool for extracting ore.

Power Hammer
S+2 Ap2 Melee
Specialist weapon, Concussive, Unwieldy
>Blunt mining tool intended for smashing apart hardy obstacles.

Power Drill
S+4 Ap1 Melee
Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy, Armorbane, Two Handed
>Heavy mining tool used to drill trough even the strongest layers of rock.

Power Fist
Sx2 AP 2
Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy
>A mechanized gauntlet sheathed in an energized field. Useful for handling molten substances. Can be used to smash apart obstacles as well.

Gear:
Armored mining suit (3+ sv)
Blasting Charges (krak granades)

For every 10 models in a squad, 3 models can replace their Laser Cutters with either Specialist weapons, or with a Pistol weapon and a Melee weapon (or only a melee weapon, in the case of the Power Drill.)

>>48045867
these are cool ideas anon. Deathwatch overkill has a statline for weaponized mining lasers, and lascutters are an actual weapon from horus heresy book 1.

>>48045867
I could see them making a unreasonably extensive use of demolition charges...

>>48043955
>They would also wield a lot of remotely piloted weaponized mining robots (no AI)
They could have basic drones as troops since their are low in numbers.
Also, maybe they could have AI. Very rare non-Men of Iron AI that serve as knowledge keeper. Would explain their distance from the Imperium. Dwarves have old grudge books, they have robot-datatellers

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>>48045964
Thanks m8. I just got inspired by imagining a militarized force of asteroid miners.
Here are a bunch of other ideas.

Prospectors (Jetpack infantry)
Bs 3 Ws 3 S 3 T 3 W1 I 2 A 1 Ld 8 Sv 4+
Stubborn, Scout

Donning lightly armored space suits, to compensate for the added weight of their thruster-packs which have been modified to work in planetary gravity wells, the Prospector Squads form the mobile vanguard of the Squat forces.

Basic Weapon:
Laser Cutter

Gear:
Thruster suit, blasting charges.

Options:
For every 5 members of the squad, 2 members may exchange their Stake Launcher for a Specialist Weapon, or for Melee weapons and a pistol. May buy meltabombs.

Demolishers (Jetpack infantry)
Bs 4 Ws 3 S 4 T 4 W1 I 2 A 1 Ld 8 Sv 3+
Stubborn, Split Fire

Demolisher squads are equipped with heavy combat exosceletons, that incorporate both powerful thrusters, as well as mechanized weapon rigs, that allow them to wield additional weaponry with ease. They also utilize compact, targeting matrixes installed into their suits allow them to co-ordinate their firepower to great effect. They are hard hitting forces that strike at the heart of the enemy with devastating firepower.

Basic Weapon:
Twin Linked Laser Cutter

Gear:
Demolisher suit sv+3 (confers twin linked to any shooting weapon equipped by the unit.), Targeting matrix (grants split fire), blasting charges.

Options: Every member of the squad may exchange their TL laser cutters for specialist weapons, or melee weapons, can buy melta bombs, and hunter seeker missiles.

>>48046296
Those are pretty good ideas. I actually sorta agree on them having some AI, though probably not completely sentient. Some sort of data cataloging, and processing computers, that the Squats nearly revere due to them keeping the ancient lore of their people.

>>48037315

I can tell you came to the hobby long after Rogue Trader. 40K was gonzo and silly in those days. The whole damn setting was contrived Warhammer fantasy battle in spaaaace.

>>48046513
I say definitely some A.I. in secret. There Squats were here before A.I. was declared abominable intelligence.

>>48046576
As each elder squat is about to pass away, their memories are scanned and uploaded into the central intelligence matrix. This matrix is an AI which passes on the wisdom of their forefathers and makes sure no grudge is forgotten... Of course, no-one alive remembers WHY these grudges exist, but there must be a good reason, right?

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>>48046296
An idea for a drone unit. Probably an Elite, or a Fast attack choice though.

Spider Drone (beast)
BS 2 WS 3 S 3 T 4 W 1 I 4 A 2 Ld 7 Sv 4+

Compact, mining and asteroid survey drones, directed remotely by Squat operators, and by their own simplistic mechanical minds, the Spider Drones are one of the type of mechanical constructs the Squats use to supplement their low numbers. Their arachnid like body allows them to rapidly move across nearly all obstacles, and find their way into the midst of the enemy, where they can sow terror.

Shred, Feel no Pain.

Weapons:
2x Mechanical Claws.
S+1 Ap 5 Melee
Rending.

Compact Laser Cutter
S 4 AP 4 Pistol

Options:
May Exchange Mechanical Claws for a pair of power claws, which have the following profile
Sx2 AP 2 Melee
Unwieldy, Armorbane
May Exchange Compact Laser Cutter for a plasma torch.

>>48046576
>>48046632
I love these ideas.

Fits well with them, and would actually make them decently culturally distinct from Imperium and Admech. For the Squats, the AI represents their ancestors, and history, which dates way before the age of the Imperium.

>>48046513
Should have added that the Demolisher suits allows one to wield two melee weapons. Two Power Drills, for maximum Drilling.

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>>48046632
I say that Squats should have more emphasis on machines or robot-Squats they control through some brain implant which allows them to see what the machines do. It'd not only be an increase their numbers but also an anti-Tyranid countermeasure & useful in mining. Older & higher ranking Squats have more experience commanding machines. Young Squats can only command a squad's worth or one tank at best, millennia-old ones can command armies & override control from younger ones if needed.

>>48046788
That's a good point.
You could have so that the majority of Squat troops are actually robotic drones, that, while inferior to actual Squats themselves, would be far more numerous/expendable.
The flesh and blood squats could occupy various specialist roles, while more mundane, and simple ones would be occupied by their drones.

You could then have various HQ units, whose role is to control and guide the robots. Some sort of "Machine Sympathy" rule could be at works, which allows the "operator" to improve the functions of the machines he is guiding.

>>48046632
Machine spirits anon. Any & all of their Machine Spirits are from dead Squats & carry whatever grudges they have in life. Dorfs honor their ancestors.

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>>48046907
>some Squat warmachine wont stop hounding a bunch of Eldar, whose meddling caused the Squat whose spirit now inhabits that repurposed mining drone, to lose a very mineral rich asteroid.

>>48046888
It'd be an ironic parallel to the Tyranid Hivemind(s) while giving them something more distinct. I say that the Squats should also have an emphasis on Dark Age technology, older shit that the Imperium forgot how to make. Maybe there's even an old vs new within the Squats like the Quarrelers vs Thunderers' Crossbow vs Gun, one side clinging to past glory while another desperately tries various grimdark attempts to make new technology.

>>48046965
It wouldn't be out of place for 40k nor the Dorfs. Remember that one pass the Dorfs declared vengeance on & endlessly mine until each rock is crushed?

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Some more ideas for drones.

Miner Drone (infantry)
BS3 Ws2 S 3 T 4 W 1 I 2 A 1 Ld 6 Sv 4+

The Squats utilize great swarms of these simpleminded drones, to aid in the excavation of asteroids and comets. They can carry a wide variety of mining equipment and tools, and with the skilled direction of a Squat Machine Operator, a squad of these drones can be a force to be reckoned with.

Bulky, Feel no Pain, Move Trough Cover, Slow and Purposeful.

Weapons:
Twin Linked Laser Cutters.
Charge launcher (basically a short range grenade launcher that lets them chug out blasting charges.)

Options
May Exchange TL laser cutters for TL Stake Launchers or TL Plasma Torches.
For every 5 units in the squad, 2 may exchange TL Laser Cutters for either Mining Laser or Heavy Stake launchers.

>>48047081
Agreed.
Their relationship with the Imperium could be somewhat strained, though still nominal allies in the greater scope of things. Admech would probably hate them though, for having unsanctioned tech, and not letting Admech get their hands on their tech.

>>48046888
>You could then have various HQ units, whose role is to control and guide the robots.
This reminds me somewhat of Vampire Counts where you had a General who controlled and maintained the undead horde, if he died the army would start to crumble. At least it was that way when I played VC ages ago.

>>48047322
Something like that could work.

The Squat Drones could have some sort of rule that represents their dependency on outside control. Maybe something akin to the old wraithsight rule the Eldar wraith constructs used to have?

>>48047294
The Dorfs were, despite close relations to Sigmar's Empire, still their own organization. The Squats have enormous amounts of anomaly from the Imperium anyway. We should get to see the technology that stopped even the Great Crusade. The Squats had so much potential.

>>48047519
Agreed.

It's a shame that GW probably won't bother retooling them, and adding them back to 40k. It's not like it can't be done, this thread alone is proof of that. The asteroid miner angle would be an excellent way of adding dwarf themes into a scifi setting, and it would also ad a faction with a rather unique niche into 40k. There ain't that much going on in the void of 40k, outside of big fleet engagements. Most focus of 40k is in planetary combat, and the lore reflects that.

>>48047596
When I first heard that their reasoning for the Squats' removal was "We couldn't think of how to progress next", I was under the impression they couldn't come up with a way to make a story about a chainsaw-wielding ninja who rides a firebreathing skyshark dueling an army of Wolfenstein-esque Mecha-Hitlers interesting. There's so many directions to go with this.

>>48043955
This is how I sort of imagined Squats and your description there is fucking dope. From the little I know about Squats, I think they could fill a cool sort of niche and the industrial aesthetic taken to its 40k conclusion could be amazing.

Squat exoskeletons are compared to tiny terminator armor so I could see squat armies as having small, elites squads of like 5 man troop choices with 2+ armor, but also a bunch of construction equipment in the form of drones and flying jetpacks as you said. Their "thing" tactically could be some unique stuff like being much better able to fix their vehicles, being able to burrow around in miner drill thingies and having turbo tank shocks that can bust open land raiders, remote exploding drones, and give them the ability to effect terrain like build pillboxes, remove ruins, etc. A sort of weird area denial army good at repairs and demolitions/bombing things which doesn't really exist in 40k atm, although I don't know much about the adepticus mechanicus army so if they play like this . . .

>>48047691
>I don't know much about the adepticus mechanicus army so if they play like this . . .

Nah, they don't play like that.
They do have relentless infantry, but their main thing is being shooty as fuck, and having a bunch of special rules that let them alter their stat block to make them better at shooting, or melee, for a turn for example.

>>48047741
40k really does need a "the terrain army" then, squats could be great for this. imagine being able to pop up barriers on turn 2 after you've move forward, lay down sand pits, spray burning pools of promethium onto the field that makes dangerous terrain and fucks hordes, have turbo dangerous tank shocks as your main AT, and fliers that drop crater-spawning bombs

although this sounds like the rules argument army from hell

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>>48047691
>being able to burrow around in miner drill thingies and having turbo tank shocks that can bust open land raiders,

Fuck
Yes

These ideas already posted here + basically making the Squats into Rock Raiders of 40k, would make me start a Squat army asap.

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Seems like a perfect time to post my squats (salamanders) drop pods.

>>48047519
What sort of Dark age of Technology weapons should the Squats have then?
The weapon ideas here have just been basically weaponized mining tools.

Man, if 40k was community driven it'd be so much better.

>>48048005
Not necessarily senpai.
For every good idea coming from any given community, there are 10 far, far worse ideas, that also tend to be far more vocal.

>>48048001
Gravity devices, controlled explosives, whatever kills Orks & Eldar.

>>48048001
i kinda prefer the mining tools slant though, at least for some units. maybe just their tanks and walkers could have more DAOT stuff?

>>48046541
>The whole damn setting was contrived Warhammer fantasy battle in spaaaace.

Oh, I did I'm only 23, and I know.

The thing is that they just didn't really survive the re-design of the setting that IMO kinda needed to happen if it was going to get anywhere beyond fringe status . In the "new" (and more permanent) 40K, there was no real place for them at the table that wasn't already fulfilled by another type of race, and they just couldn't be worked without a major overhaul that would radically change how they function.

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also, they have to have a flyer like this that can be built to transport a vehicle, two walkers, or a 10 man cabin.

>>48048066
Them wielding a lot of gravity manipulating devices would make a lot of sense even from the mining tool angle. Being able to move around asteroids by altering gravity fields etc seems to be right up their alley.
Grav guns being rather common seems suitable.

>>48048076
The basic weaponry of the Squats should be repurposed mining tools imo. However, their elite units, and heavier warmachines could have some DAoT tech tricks up their sleeves.

>>48048113
Don't forget a beer distillery.

>>48035803

I love them. I own a ton of the models, and if rumors re: Forgeworld prove true, I'll be able to field them legally again.

>>48048146
What, some morale boosting AOE? On a skimmer/flyer? Who would be daft enough to do that? (eyes the dark angels suspiciously)

>>48048162
you already can, Solar Auxilia with the Survivors of the Dark Age and Abhuman Helots special rules.

>>48048180
> Who would be daft enough to do that?
Dworfs

>>48048001
They aren't just miners, they had to survive against whatever was thrown at them in high-gravity worlds with harsh atmospheres. I say their armor needs some mention & so does their history with trading with Orks & Eldar.

>>48048162
What do you think of the ideas in this thread?

>>48048216
Their origins on high gravity worlds gives even more reason for them to have all sorts of gravity manipulating technologies. Maybe even more exotic stuff than Grav guns.

>>48048216
Reinforced: Units with this special rule are only injured by weapons with the Grav rule on a 5+. Units with this special rule are Slow and Purposeful.

>>48048064

GW writers are basically the same as fanfic authors, except their shit becomes canon. /tg/ has made some pretty good regiment ideas before. Muh cyberpunk disco hive worlders included.

If GW basically agreed to select the ideas they liked the most and rewarded the contributors with something of little value, like decals, it would be a positive thing overall. I'm sure most of us would do it 4free anyway.

>>48048256
Wouldn't something that originated from a high gravity world be rather fast on a world with lesser gravity?

>>48048253
I say they should get some special materials for bullets. Maybe something considered rare by the rest of the Imperium is commonplace for them. They'd get special weapons with special metals or special ammunition thanks to their mining.

>>48048287
it depends on how it functions.
typically speaking, moving fast on a high gravity world would impart more force on an individual/ increase the amount of stress on a person/object. slow and steady allows you to spread out that force over time.

>>48048319
Things like exoskeletal armor and power armor, need to be calibrated depending on the amount of weight they're expected to carry. It is likely that they would not have the range of motion/be calibrated properly for high speed movement.
With that in mind, let's remember that squats are from a high-gravity environment. I propose that all squats profiles be improved to T4.

Would some sort of "inverse" grav weapon make any sense?
As in, the lighter the armor of the target, the more the thing is gonna hurt?
I'm sorta imagining a weapon that basically lessens the gravity in a given area, potentially flinging fuckers with light armor into the orbit.
Or would that be too silly?

>>48048407
Some kinda Force Push? An Elder Squat Psyker who can manipulate Gravity to lift things like a Jedi?

>>48048398
on the other hand, squats outside their armor would very likely be like aquaman on earth's surface; faster, tougher, stronger due to the reduced pressure/gravity.

>>48048398
Good point. They should be tougher than Eldar or Humans.

>>48035803
I think that GW should've just gone with the massive satirical setting they had and embraced the squats.

>>48048424
I don't think that they should have psykers desu. Instead, that role should be filled by some sort of elders, who know how to wield arcane DAoT tech. Dworfs in fantasy didn't have magic either, instead they had rune priests.

But yeah, some sort of gravity manipulating device, that could blast fuckers straight into space if they fail to grab onto something due to them suddenly starting to float away.

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>>48048398
>let's remember that squats are from a high-gravity environment
>>48048427
>faster, tougher, stronger due to the reduced pressure/gravity

Should the fact that their core worlds were nommed by nids be kept in?

Because if we go with the asteroid mining angle, the above doesn't necessarily mean that all Squats were destroyed, just that they no longer posses their homeworlds. The high gravity stuff would still apply, because Squats would obviously keep all their space ships and stations in a comfortably high gravity state via gravity manipulating tech.

>>48048540
I wonder if the Tyranids truly ate those worlds. The Squats aren't even on the endangered list of Abhumans. Maybe there's more to the story than we thought.

>>48048582
Like
>>48045812
Said, it's not like the imperium is bunch of useless twits or anything and nothing has been misreported before... wait

>>48048708
Are the Squats being kept in reserve? I wonder what the Emperor is planning. Heck, I wonder if the Tyranids or Abbadon get to Terra first. Maybe they'll run into each other.

>>48048477
Here is an attempt to fluff and give rules to that device.

Gravitic Nullifier.

The Gravitic Nullifier is an arcane device from the Dark Age of Technology. It is capable of negating the effects of gravity on any objects by projecting a field of power, that causes everything caught in that field, to rapidly lose the effects of gravity. This loss of gravity is faster, the lighter the weight of the object is. Because of this, warriors donning light armor, are at the greatest risk when facing this device, as the loss of gravity is near instantaneous, granting them scant few seconds to grab onto something, before they start rapidly floating away at increasing speed. Warriors with heavier armor, have more time to notice the effects, and grab onto something before being rendered weightless.
The effects of the field are only temporary, and when it ends, the victims of the field will feel the full weight of gravity again, usually while floating very high in the sky.

Strength 8 Ap - Torrent
Gravitic Nullification, Grab onto something!, Ignores Cover, Concussive.

Gravitic Nullification:
Weapons with this rule wound their targets as follows. First, check the armor value of the target (targets with no armor value have an armor value of 6 for the purposes of this rule), then minus that armor value from the strength of the weapon with the Gravitic Nullification rule, to see the roll you need for a successful wound. For purposes of instant death, the weapon's strength is still compared to the target's toughness.
For example, a mob of Ork boyz, with an armor save of 6, is hit by the Gravitic Nullifier. The weapon's strength of 8 minus their armor save of 6 results in 2, thus the roll needed to wound the Ork boyz is 2.
No armor saves are allowed against a weapon with this rule, instead, one must take an initiative test to avoid wounds caused by this weapon.

Grab onto something!
Any unit that suffers successful wounds from this weapon must go to ground.

>>48049082
lol, that's amazing

>>48049157
Thanks.
I came up with that on the fly.
Sorta wonder if the "Grab onto something" rule should state that any squad hit by the weapon needs to go to ground. But as I made it a torrent weapon, I thought that it would be a bit too easy to force a squad to the ground.

Maybe if it was a blast weapon instead.

>>48049197
another question, what about fearless units? They CAN'T go to ground.

>>48049270
behold the anti-fearless beatstick!

>>48046719
Mayde me think of the red alert soviet terror drone. Those were nasty shit.

>>48049082
Another gravity thingy could "attract" targets to a point. Like something that shoot before other weapons and take every models under a 5 inch template a mass them together base to base, THEN you fire your other template weapons.

>>48035803
Le cant say squats XDDDD

On topic though, im sad GW decided to try and push them into obscurity.

>>48049270
Grab onto something rule's purpose is mostly to indicate that folks who are hit by the gravitic nullification field, but manage to grab to something before floating away, are desperately clutching onto the ground, tree stumps, ruins etc, to avoid floating away.

Though, the mental image of a bunch of space marines, who are so fearless that even floating away into orbit isn't scary enough for them to clutch onto the ground, is amusing.

>>48038363
This
I am still irritated on no end by some of the Shadowrun Dwarves

>>48049339
no, I get that, but maybe just make it an initiative test and until the start of your next turn they are treated as being in difficult and dangerous terrain? Because fearless negates being able to go to ground.

>>48049405
after the dying of course.

>>48048274
>If GW basically agreed to select the ideas they liked the most and rewarded the contributors with something of little value, like decals, it would be a positive thing overall. I'm sure most of us would do it 4free anyway.

Actually they occasionally have open submissions where you can send in fiction to be published, they just did this in April for a short story omnibus. Ad was on their website, which basically said "send us a short story with x criteria, if we publish it we'll want to work with you further, this could be a great start of a writing career" so I'm guessing an enterprising fa/tg/uy could wait for one of those and hop on the GW train.

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>>48049289
Forgot pic.
You could also take inspiration from the grinder by the way: it's a steamroller that convert enemy tanks into resources! Here maybe it could repairs itself as it chews its enemies.

>>48049082
For another gravity thingy (an anti armour one) I once had the idea to reverse the armour save: you have to fail your armour save to be safe.

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>>48049482
And the Grinder while I'm a it.
Now we can explain where the orks are looting all that shit!

>>48049289
That picture is of a terror drone from RA 2, and those were the main inspiration for that unit, especially the Power claw and plasma torch armament, which would serve to make it excellent against vehicles in melee.

As for a "pulling" gravity weapon, how about this:

Gravitic nexus

An ancient device that is capable of intensifying the effects of gravity at a localized point to an extreme degree, causing everything within a certain radius around this point to be pulled towards it. The effects of this field are so intense, that feebler creatures can be pulped by the sheer power that is being exerted upon them.

Strength 5 AP- Large Blast
Concussive, Ignores Cover, Gravitic Pull

Gravitic Pull
Any models caught under the blast marker must immediately take an initiative test. If they fail the test, they must proceed to pile in with each other, as if they were assaulting one another. This effect lasts for one turn, during which the models in question can only fire at bs 6.

>>48049405
Could work. The main reason I added the go to ground thing was to force the units to shoot at bs 6, because they are too focused on not floating away.

>>48049482
>you have to fail your armour save to be safe.
How would that work in practice?

>>48049554
>6
I hope you mean BS1?

>>48048424
>Dorf psychers.
Rock crush:
Uses a large blast template.
Gravity push: Scatters the target 4d6 away.

>>48049569
Yeah, brain fart.
Basically, I meant that they should only hit on 6ses.
It is too late for me to be thinking of rules.

>>48049554
Ah! I only remembered the RA3 version.
If we take inspiration there, there is another thing the squat will need to take from it : overacting.

>How would that work in practice?
Rereading old shit I wrote years ago and never used, it was something similar to your gravitic pull, except the models caught under the blast had to fail a save instead of succeeding an initiative test.
It was also magnetic rather than gravitic but whatever.

>>48040511
>>48040521
>>48040528
I like to point out, that the "Studio people" that Jervis lists are all the next-generation (at the time) staff, with the Rogue Trader Squats material being written primarily by their predecessors, mostly Ian and Bryan.

The "Studio people" made Squats not fit 40k by changing 40k to not fit them, without putting in the effort to change the Squats along with it (like they bothered to do with every other race). In short, they never liked Squats because it wasn't theirs, they took 40k more seriously than it really was, and they simply didn't care about the consequences for players/fans (they didn't just write them out of 40k the game, they wrote them out of 40k the universe: they were absent from Epic 40,000 which predated 3rd edition (40k), and they were a mature and distinct army in Epic).

Also revisionist history:
>Instead we decided that we'd write the Squats out of the background by saying that their Homworlds had been devoured by a Tyranid Hivefleet.
That was never mentioned anywhere *except in that very post*

Another unit idea.

Borers (infantry)
BS 3 WS 3 S 3 T 4 W 1 I 2 A 1 Ld 8 Sv 2+
Stubborn, Slow and Purposeful, Split Fire

Borers are Squat explosive and heavy mining equipment experts, who specialize in the usage of the biggest, and baddest mining tools/weapons in the Squat arsenal. Donning reinforced, mechanized suits of armor, that offer second to none protection against most firepower, in addition to the strength needed to utilize even the heaviest weapons. Their targeting matrixes also allows them to co-ordinate their heavy firepower to where it is most needed.

Basic weapon:
Heavy Stake Launcher.

Gear:
Mechanized mining suit, blasting charges, targeting matrix.

Options:
May exchange the Heavy Stake Launcher for any of the following:
-Mining Laser.
-Heavy Grav Cannon
-Heavy Plasma Burner
-Smart Bomb launcher.
-Implosion Mine launcher
-APD Laser (asteroid point defense)

Heavy Grav Cannon
Range 30" Strenght * AP 2 Salvo 4/6 Graviton, concussive.
>Gravitic manipulator that intensifies the local gravity of the object.

Heavy Plasma Burner
Range 18" Strength 10 AP 2 Salvo 2/3 Melta, Gets hot.
>Heavy duty plasma burner intended for melting trough asteroids.

Smart Bomb Launcher
Range 36" Strength 8 AP 3 Barrage 2, Large Blast, Ignores Cover,
>A guided high explosive, intended to be used for blowing up hard to reach places.

Implosion Mine launcher
Range 36" Strength 5 AP- Barrage 1, Blast, Ignores cover, Gravitic pull, Concussive
>A gravity manipulation device, that intensifies the local gravity field, pulling everything within the vicinity into the target area.

APD Laser
Range 24" Strength 6 Ap 4 Heavy 4 Skyfire, Interceptor
>A Laser system intended for destroying any small to medium sized asteroid chunks that may have flown to dangerous orbits due to explosives etc.

>>48048427
>>48048502
>>faster, tougher, stronger due to the reduced pressure/gravity
You could actually have a sort of 40k equivalent of the Dwarf Slayers using that as the basis.

Squats who don't don any proper armor, or powered suit, maybe at best, a some sort of bodyglove and a face mask, that offers the most basic protection against the cold embrace of Space.

Anyone still in this thread?

I am

>>48050591
I like that idea. Gonna start compiling a list of wargear/statlines

>>48051041
I remember 1d4chan already has a Squat codex. Maybe we should add another as that one is specifically designed to be an "old Squat" one without new ideas.

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>>48050988
Good, things seemed to have gone quiet for a moment.
>>48051041
Good to hear. As this anon>>48051358 said, it should probably be specified that these are new ideas.

Anyways here is an idea for some big ass asteroid mining drone.

Excavator Drone (walker)

BS 4 WS 3 S 8 Front 12 Side 12 Rear 11 I 2 A 2 HP 4

Move trough cover, Smash.

Excavator drones are large machines of industry, and one of the most common heavy drone types found in Squat mining operations. These large, multi-legged robots, are capable of traversing harshest of landscapes, and their bulky frame can accommodate numerous forms of heavy mining equipment. Their fearsome frontal mining tools can shred trough both the surface of asteroids, as well as the enemies of Squats with equal ease. Some also house smaller, autonomous drones, whose purpose is to provide on site, rapid repairs for their hosts, a necessary adaptation for their asteroid mining role, in which a stray rocks blown from explosions, can over time, wear down, and even critically damage the mining equipment.

Weapons:
2x Excavation claws
S+2 AP 3 Shred, Armorbane.

Demolition Cannon.
Range 30" Strength 8 Ap 3 Heavy 2, Blast, Armorbane
>A powerful mag driven launcher, that shoots bigger, more powerful versions of the Stakes used by Stake launchers. This device is intended for blowing open the faces of asteroids.

2x Mining Lasers.

Options:
May exchange the pair of mining lasers for the following
-2x Heavy Stake launchers
-2x Heavy plasma burners

May exchange the Demolition cannon for a Sunbore Mining Laser which has the following profile:
Range 42" Strength 10, AP 1 Heavy 1, lance.

May also equip one of the following:
-APD Laser rack
Range 30" Strength 6 Ap 4 Heavy 6 Skyfire, Interceptor
-Repair Drone bay
Grants the unit It will not die.

>>48048398
T4 agreed they are space dwarfs

>>48047814
BRUH
I forgot about that game and toyline. That was my first RTS when I was younger. I wonder if it holds up to modern gameplay or if I just liked it as a kid because it was my only exposure to the genre.

>>48051041
I can help you a bit with by collecting a bunch from the earlier posts in this post and adding in a bunch of additional weapons that I feel should be included.

>Laser cutter
Range 24'' Strength 5 AP 4 Rapid Fire

Specialist weapons:
>Stake Launcher
Range 18'' Strength 6 AP 3 Rapid Fire, Concussive, Armorbane

>Grav Gun
Range 18" Strength * Ap 2 Salvo 2/3 Concussive, Graviton

Plasma Burner
Range 12" Strength 8 Ap 2 Melta, Gets Hot.

>Mining Laser
Range 30" Strength 9 AP 2 Heavy 1 Lance

>Heavy Stake Launcher
Range 24" Strength 6 Ap 3 Salvo 2/3 Concussive, Armorbane

Heavy Weapons:
>Heavy Grav Cannon
Range 30" Strenght * AP 2 Salvo 4/6 Graviton, concussive.

>Heavy Plasma Burner
Range 18" Strength 10 AP 2 Salvo 2/3 Melta, Gets hot.

>Smart Bomb Launcher
Range 36" Strength 8 AP 3 Barrage 2, Large Blast, Ignores Cover

>Implosion Mine launcher
Range 36" Strength 5 AP- Barrage 1, Blast, Ignores cover, Gravitic pull*, Concussive

>APD Laser
Range 24" Strength 6 Ap 4 Heavy 4 Skyfire, Interceptor

Pistol weapons:
>Compact Laser Cutter
Range 12" S 4 AP 4 Pistol

>Stake Pistol
Range 12" Strenght 6 Ap3 Pistol Concussive, Armorbane

>Grav Pistol
Range 12" Strength * Ap 2 Pistol, Concussive, Graviton

>Plasma Torch
Range 6" Strenght 8 Ap 2 Pistol, Melta, Gets Hot

Melee weapons:
>Power Pick
S+1 AP 3 Melee Unwieldy

>Power Hammer
S+2 Ap2 Melee Specialist weapon, Concussive, Unwieldy

>Power Drill
S+4 Ap1 Melee Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy, Armorbane, Two Handed

>Power Fist
Sx2 AP 2Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy

Gear:
>Armored mining suit 3+
>Thruster suit 4+ (confers the jetpack infantry unit type)
>Demolisher suit 3+ (confers the jetpack infantry type, grants twin linked, allows model to wield 2 melee weapons, even if melee weapons in question are 2 handed).
>Mechanized mining suit 2+
>Blasting Charges (Krak Grenades)
>Melta Bombs
>Targeting matrix (grants split fire)

Ok, got the big drone... I'm gonna tone down some of the weapons, we have a TON of S8 AP3 and while some anti-marine weapons are nice, we don't want to go Tau or Eldar

>>48051616
Oh, thank the Ancients, I wasn't looking forward to that part.

Are we sticking with the idea of dorfs controlling the drones ala warmachine/ old wraithsight?

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>>48051653
Yeah, feel free to tone down the weaponry. I was mostly just spit balling the values.

And yeah, I think that the whole idea of drone control should be kept in. I sorta imagine the Squats being an army, where the actual flesh and blood squats are rather few, but pack a punch, while the bulk of their army is composed of drones. I recon that there wouldn't be much more than 1 or 2 actual flesh and blood squat units in each given unit category.
If we use the ones already in this thread, we get Miners as troops, Prospectors as fast attack, Demolishers as elites, and Borers as heavy support.

We need to come up with more drones.

Btw, here is a bit revised Miner unit entry.

Miner (infantry, troop)
Bs 3 Ws 3 S 3 T 4 W1 I 2 A 1 Ld 8 Sv 3+

Weapon:
Laser Cutter

Gear:
Armored Mining suit
Blasting Charges.

For every 5 units in a squad 2 may replace their Laser Cutters with weapons from the Specialist Weapon list, or with a pistol and a melee weapon.

So, what do we do with all that mining?
I could see a frontline mobile factory, basically (smaller) pic related, producing drones and shit.
Initially an idea for MoI but eh.

ok, My updates are gonna be few and far between since I'm taking the time to format the list.

I'm not gone, just focussed

>>48051844
Some sort of monstrous mechanical tervigon like unit spawner would be pretty cool.

>>48051866
No problem m8.

Anyways, here is some food for thought in regards to the drone control stuff.

Do you guys think that the special rules in regards to the drone control should be more complex, sorta like the Admech/skitarii army books have, or more simple, akin to Wraithsight or Synapse of the Tyranids?

Personally, I'm inclined for a bit more complex system.
I vision the Drone controllers being sorta the equivalents of Rune priests of fantasy Dwarfs, and that their command on the drone forces would be based on some rune like command tablets trough which they could boost the various qualities of their drones. Stuff like improved ballistic skill on every drone within an X distance of the "Rune priest" etc.

>>48051935
what if they sacrificed their different phases to make the units under their control perform better? For example, a Dronemaster (horrible name, let's not keep it) could sacrifice his movement in order to allow the drones under his control to move as beasts instead of 6". Sacrifice shooting to grant his Ballistic Skill to his drones and sacrifice his assault to grant his Weapon Skill to his drones?

but we make the drones kinda pathetic if he's not doing it.

>>48052009
That would actually be a rather unique mechanic. I like it. Maybe those effects should only apply to a single squad of drones however, to limit that control power somewhat, at least for the basic drone controller guys.

You could have different levels of those control guys, sorta like psychic mastery levels, with the basic guy being only able to boost up a singe squad, more experienced (and expensive) ones could boost up 2, and master level ones could boost 3.

>>48052009
>Dronemaster
>not Mastermind
>not Patriarch

>>48052053
Patriarch would probably be most fitting.

>>48052068
sounds a bit genestealery though

>>48052113
Hmm, true.

Maybe some other term.
Dronefather maybe?

>>48052137
>Fleethead
>Skyfather
>Master of Machines

>>48052137
Dronefather, huh? That's not too bad.

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ok. compressed and laid out for comparison purposes. I've already tweaked some stuff, but let's talk balance.

>>48052308
and possibly army name... because squats, while classic, isn't really doing it. More like an imperial racial slur when referring to them.

>>48052308
The Arc cutter seems to be basically identical to the compact las cutter.

>>48052321
Khazâd? Naugrim?

>>48052379
I forgot to cut the range of the pistol, thanks.

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>>48052308
Any Exo-Armor? Apparently this civilian-turn-military armor is comparable to Terminator Armor. I think the 1d4chan Squat codex put a nice spin too:
"Squat Exo-Armour - The Squats routinely use an armour-class similar to Terminator armour for heavy duty civilian applications such as deep space repair or internal reactor maintenance, whereas Terminator armor is a priceless relic to the Imperium, the Squats make quite casual usage of their Exo-Armor, and the Squats are proud of boasting that they have more far more Exo-Armour wearers than the Imperium has space marines. These suits grant a 2+ Armour Save, 5+ Invulnerable save and the Slow & Purposeful and Bulky special rules."

>>48052516
I believe the "Mechanized Mining Suit is what you're looking for.

>>48052548
>>48052516
Yeah, practically the same. Exo armor sounds better though, so let's go with that.

>>48052548
Exo-Armor is their official name though. It's just as combat oriented as it is for mining.

>>48052576
>>48052571
I uh.. meant on the list, but I'll note and make that change.

>>48052308
Is the Arc cutter toned down version of the Laser cutter?
Honestly, with only 12" range, I'd rather make the gun into an Assault 2 weapon, instead of a rapid fire gun.

We do, however, need ideas for characters: squad leaders, independent characters and such
>>48052629
yes, the lascutter was renamed, due to there being a space marine weapon of a similar name. I can make the change to assault 2.

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>>48052646
God-Rekt the Doom Slayer. The armies of the Chaos killed his pet bunny-abhuman Felix so he's leading a one-squat divine invasion into the Warp.

>>48052646
I am really bad with names, but for squad leader stuff, we could go standard increased leadership and attack stat, and maybe restrict some of the melee weapons only for the Squad leaders themselves, at least in the case of basic troop units like the Miners. Like for example, only squad leaders could equip Power Fists.

Maybe give them access to some DAoT trinkets as well. Nothing too powerful, but something that gives them a small trick up their sleeves. Maybe stuff like a 5+ invulnerable save for their squad, 1+ bs for their squad due to a networked targeting system and so on.

>>48052848
I wonder if there's a rule that makes the AdMech orgasm when they bring out the STCs.

>>48052848
I'll post the writeup in a second.

File: Squats Unit Entries.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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don't know if anyone is still here or not.

Nothing has point values yet.

>>48053103
I'm still here. Just sorta out of ideas at the moment.
Point values are something that we can consider later.

>>48053103
Looks good m8.

>>48053163
cool, working on drones

File: Squat Drones.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>48053217
Drones

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OP here. What does /tg/ think of Forge Father's?

>>48053357
cool models, I use them as proxies for space marines.

The new warpath 2.0 models are looking better.

>>48053346
Nice.
We need to come up with more drone types though.

The Mining drone fills the rank and file shooty role, the Spider fills the melee one, and the Excavator fills the Monstrous creature role.
What other niches could be filled by drones?

Also, how would the drone network rule work?

>>48053357
Those look goofy desu.

>>48053406
Drone Network is basically old wraithsight. The Drone Controller (1-3) rule overrides that rule and allows them to do the direct control thing we discussed earlier in the thread.

>>48053406
Detector drones? Jump drones (like tau) that give negatives to cover saves (normally used to detect ore, repurposed for battle?)

Can dead Squats somehow be uploaded into machines like a Wraithknight?

>>48053476
we discussed that earlier. Probably pre death. I'd love to do a pseudo drone that has a better profile, and has a random chart that determines what the interred squat's "Quirk" is for the game.

>>48053503
I mean pre death as in, while they're dying, an engram is made of their memories and uploaded to the AI core that houses their racial memories. Individual chips can be pulled and used to "man" weapons of war, but they're not the most "stable" personalities.

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>>48053438
Alright, sounds good.

>>48053453
That's a rather good idea too.

Anyways, here is an idea for another type of drone.

Bulwark Drone (infantry) (different name needed)
Bs 2 Ws 2 S 4 T 4 W 2 I 2 A 2 Ld 6 sv 3+
3-10 models.

Bulky, Feel No Pain, Slow and Purposeful, Drone Network

Rugged, and heavily built drones, intended for heavy mining and construction duty, as well as for shielding flesh and blood squats from threats, should the need arise, the Bulwark Drones form a relentless wall of metal against the foes of the Squats.

Wargear:
Two power fists.
Any unit in the squad can exchange any of it's power fists for any of the following, in any combination:
-Power Drill
-Heavy Stake Launcher
-Mining Laser
-Plasma Burner
-Blast Shield*

*can only equip a single blast shield per model

Blast shield grants the unit an invulnerable save of 4

>>48053735
sounds good, I'll incorporate it.

We do need to do vehicles at some point.

>>48053346
>>48053735
Wait, shouldn't drones be fearless by default?
They are mindless robots after all, they don't fear death.

Thinking of leaders and fluff.
Speaking of, were the homeworlds eaten, these miners being the scrappy survivors with an eternal grudge against the tyranid menace.
And perhaps the empire for abandoning them. They put up with the imperium for the sake of survival against greater enemies but tensions run high, especially sice the greater imperium is convinced they don't exist.
I can see a lot of disaffected survivors of the squatening as gungho aggressive leaders and the mining manages who weren't at the homeworld are an oft ignored voice of restraint.

Anyway, cotibootn

Urist BeardCutter (because all dwarves need a leadr who cuts off his beard)
- The day the Tyranids attacked urist was instrumental in organizing the few escapees, traveling to the surface himself and fighting off biorganisms with the milita. His closest attendants watched from the observation screen of the roaming mining rig as the escape vessels sent down were slowly destroyed as they shuttled back and forth, one by one, until only urists had survived.
survivors report that he wanted to return one more time and had to be physically restrained before he turned the lone shuttle back to certain death in the hopes of saving even one more dwarf.
waiting on the outskirts of the system as survivors were transferred from cramped ore holds and sections of the ship never meant to hold atmosphere for long he received word from the auspex arrays.
A small Imperial fleet had emerged from ftl and was holding position. immediately they hailed them with pleas for help and assistance, but they all went unanswered. Little did they know that the shadow in the warp and shear number of tyranid bioships meant their hails were never received.

>>48053831
after sometime the fleet turned and fled the system. on that day urist pledged to make the imperium that had abandoned his people pay in blood, cutting the long beard that was a dwarfs greatest treasure.
Reinforced by those surviovors of the homeworld and traveling in a miracle of arceotech, capable of churning out ships and drones at a rate to make the matian shipyards feel envy for the fist time in years, Urist traveses the unsuspecing edges of the impeium, striking without warning and raiding without mercy those who left his people to die in a crusade that he swears wont end untill he has bled a planet for every dwarf who died on the homeworld.
The only time his fleet turns from its path is if they hear the distinct silence of the great devourer fleets, throwing themselves and their drones upon the great enemy with mad abandon. He has turned several tendrils already and many splinter fleets have been eradicated by his wrath.

I like to think the Demiurg are actually Squats who secretly seceded from the Imperium.

>>48053820
part of the drone network rule could be that they never take morale checks, but instead have the mindlock type thing if they're not being controlled.

>>48053831
army rule: Hatred (Tyranids)

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>>48053754
Picture related could be the basis of a sort of tank/apc for the Squats.

>>48053831
>>48053840
Sounds good m8
Personally, I sorta like the idea of incorporating the whole "Squats got nommed by Nids" aspect to their lore, making so that the surviving Squats were by large, ones who were inhabiting mining fleets and stations, with some refugees from their core worlds among them, all fueled by eternal hatred for the tyranids.

>>48053875
That could work.
The Drones should be able to go to the ground after all, if commanded so.

What do you guys think, should the Squats have spider/crawler tanks (for moving on the uneven surfaces of asteroids), or drill tanks (for moving trough asteroids), or both?

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How many Drones should a Squat be able to control? What about other forms of machines like mechanical infantry, tanks or artillery?

>>48037315

This is pretty much what I feel, I think now they're really no different from other abhumans and don't deserve any special treatment.

Orks and Eldar would have been in the same boat if over the years they didn't grow to be their own thing that didn't necessarily share traits with their races outside of GW's games.

>>48044604

Necrons are also kind of superfluous and mostly just bring in background lore that could have existed without them being an army.

In fact, it may have been better if they were androids because it would have added a robot faction to 40k and show why AI is a bad thing in 40k. Only problem I could possibly see is them stepping on the toes of the Mechanicus.

>>48054071
>How many Drones should a Squat be able to control?
I think that a Squat should be able to control the amount of drone Squads his "Drone mastery level" is. So for the most basic "Drone masters" a single squad of drones (regardless of how many drones it actually has) is the amount he can control.
The more experienced (and expensive) Drone controllers would have Drone Mastery levels up to the level 3, which would allow them to control 3 squads of drones.

The Drone Control thing is an once per turn thing, right? The Controller can't take control of the drones in every phase of the turn, he can only sacrifice one of his phases per turn (movement, shooting, or assault) for control of the drones?

Maybe the Drone mastery level would actually indicate merely the number of drone control actions one can take per turn? Like for example, a Drone Controller with a mastery level of 2, could either control two drone squads on one of his phases, the same squad in two different phases, or two different squads in 2 different phases.

Also, what should the exact effects of the Controller taking over be per phase? Movement phase obviously makes the Drones more mobile, Shooting phase could increase their ballistic skill, and assault phase their weapons skill, numbers of attack or something?

What do you guys think?

>>48054176
no, only one phase, however, multiple controller can take control of the same unit, to buff it for the turn.

>>48054176
it was figured earlier that the controller would sacrifice his movement, shooting, or assault phase, and the target unit would move as beasts, use the controller's BS, and use the controller's WS respectively.

>>48054240
also, cannot control from inside of vehicles. (unless it has the upgrade to allow it)

>>48054219
So if a Drone controller with a mastery level of 3 decides to control drones on his shooting phase for example, he has to control 3 different drone squads during the same phase?

>>48052646
Ever looked at a list of Assyrian or Mesopotamian kings? You get good stuff like Naarum-sin and ersh-negal (that ones actually a god but it sounds cool)

>>48054313
hmm. ok, fair point, then we could make it X actions per turn, and you choose when and which unit.

>>48054360
Sounds good.
Though, in order to prevent shit from getting too hard to track, convoluted, the number of controllers with higher than 1 level control mastery should be kept low via point costs. Level 2 controllers should be a substantial investment to an army while level 3 controllers should be basically commanders etc, that you rarely have more than 1 in any given army.

>>48054071
The Squats should have some sort of Dreadnought style, piloted walker unit (that is perhaps directed by a grudge bearing uploaded mind of a dead Squat).

As for tanks and artillery, there hasn't been much discussion on them yet.
I asked this question here>>48054070
and it remains unanswered.

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>>48054489
way ahead of you on the grudge walker...

And I'm working on some ideas for spider walker/crawlers...

PDF anon here, for now I must sleep... Keep the thread alive and I shall return.

>>48054525
>>48054576
Good work m8, looking real good.

And should this thread die, we can make another. I need some shuteye myself as well.

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Here is an idea for a smaller, Dreadnought size walker

Grudge/Oath bearer (Walker)
Ws 2 Bs 2 S 6 F 12 S11 R10 I 2 A 3 HP 3 (should the "spirit driven" robots have higher ws and bs skills btw?)

Smash, Crusader, Rage

Grudge/Oath bearers are imposing machines, which have been embedded with a singular will to set right a grudge, or honor an oath, even beyond death's grasp. These rugged machines will stop at nothing when pursuing their goal, the demands of departed spirits driving them ever onward.

Wargear:
Two powerfists

Can exchange one or both power fists for any of the following:
-Power Drill
-Thunder Hammer
-Twin linked heavy stake launcher
-Twin linked mining laser
-Heavy Plasma Burner
-Blast shield.

Can also equip:
-APD Laser system
-Repair Drone bay

>>48054525
>>48053735
Also, in hindsight, I'd change the stock weapons of the Bulwark Drones to be mechanical claws, and make powerfists an upgrade for them.

I like all the new ideas for squats but have you guys forgot the nukes? Squats were the only faction ballsy enough to actually use nukes at close range/ How about a nuke launcher or nuke drone that can have like a varying yield depending on dice roll. I know it could be OP but maybe use it like an orbital strike and have it only one shot or maybe two. Have it be linked to a character or something like they have in IG.

>>48055582
Could be cool.
Some one use only nuke, that dishes out an apocalyptic pie plate, with strength D to wreck the ever living hell out of anything caught into the blast.
Fukken planet crackers and shit.

It may just be me but part of me things we have gone a bit to far in the "Improvised" weaponry chart.

I mean we have dedicated combat machines walking around with mining lasers on them.

I mean shouldn't they have some actual weapons?

>>48054525
>Dwarven JUMP infantry
>70% of the list is drones
>Nothing Dwarfy about the list at all

Jesus fucking christ you people are literally the worst ever.

Kveth Grudge IV - Formerly a renowned administrator in life, the being known as Kveth was uplifted as the oveseeing ansestor of a small orbital outpost, incharge of directing mining efforts of a new system. When the homeworld was lost it's job changed little as the cluster it oversaw was remote and out of the way, more mining rigs to guide, more Dwarves to care for.
Unfrotunatly it was not remote enough to protect it from the black crusade. Though dwarve are not as psycicly active as man, nor as powerful, the vile forces of chaos care not. A small band of nurgleite cultists began to terrorise the cluster and drove many to madness and despair. But their worst act was what they unleashed upon the hallowed ancestor Administrator Kveth.
the warp influence was felt even by the mechanical being and as it felt itself corrupting it found itself spitting into lesser often maddened fragments in an effort to survive. Calling themselves grudges the saner fragments claimed walker shells and hunted down the corruption where they could, guiding the lesser machines to lay ruin to the vile forces of nurgle, and safegarding the few living and untainted souls that had ben unable to escape.
After a daring assult upon the chaos ship that had begun the tragic event Kveth grudge IV led the mechanised force to wipe out the insurgents, kveth tearing off the head of the chaos space marine who lead the cultists. The victory was not without sacrifices, Kveth was too fragmented and limited to return to its duty as administrator, and most tof the cluster had been ravaged.

>>48055751

Kveth Grudge IV was the single most coherent of the surviving grudges and has taken leadership of the crippled cluster, deciding that it must guard and protect the few remainig dwarves, wether they want it's protection or not. It had the more degaded and deranged fragments taken from the systems and disseminated over multiple drones to degrade the inteligence and malevolence of them, as weapons of war they will serve to protect those too precious to risk.
Kveth Grudge IV was ensconced in a powerful walker drone that had many modifications made to it. on top of that it is escorted by two guard drones of just as dangerous and if it's walker is destroyed it can transfer itself to one of it's guards, remaining beyond death to continue the fight. Kveth's desire to protect the living in it's domain mean that it refuses to let many fragile dwaves fight alongside it.
Those that do are restricted to highly armored load outs and in an effort to protect them any drones they command are instructed to remain close.

>>48055687
When your mining lasers are as powerful as weapons of other races, why use anything else?

Seriously though, I see your point. Though, there are so many weaponized mining tools already, so I dunno what niche some actual proper weapons could fill.

Though one solution to this could be just the fact that the constructs are created with dual purpose, when not in war, they are used for mining, and when in war, they are used for combat.

>>48055720
M8, they are space dwarfs. SPACE dwarfs.
Nothing says space more than a rocket pack. Even on a Dwarf. Also, if you had read the thread there is a big reason for why we chose them to have lots of Drones. Nids nommed their homeworld after all. There ain't many flesh and blood Squats left, and for an industrial race like them, supplementing their numbers with mechanical constructs fits very well. It also ties in well with the idea of them being asteroid miners.

>>48055770
>Make literally Tau
>But we'll CALL them Space Dwaves, that excuses the jump packs and the robits.

Instead of trying something unique, you instead basically make the tau.

It's fucking lackluster, I even heard someone saying "make a spider tank"

>>48055751
>>48055764

In exchange for a highly mechanized force with few living Dwarves and and a commander that can, best case senario, can die twice and keep commanding, the drones controlled by the living dwarves can't travel as far from their controllers.

>>48055797
>total of two jump pack units
>drones that are completely different from tau ones, and need to be directed by flesh and blood squats.
>basically just tau.
Instead of shitposting, why not post something constructive instead.
And what's wrong with spider tanks? Those fit the whole asteroid mining theme as well, and Spider Tanks ain't exactly common in 40k. There are like what, 2 of them total in the setting, 1 if we don't count Defilers.

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>>48055825
I can do constrictive, fine.

First, Not everything in the army needs to be a fucking mining rig or from mining. if you actually want to have the Space Dwarven feeling, you need dedicated warriors.

Secondly, Aesthetics. Drones are alright, but why the 50 different flavors of drones? Why do they outnumber the Squats dramatically? it detracts from the squats themselves.

Some of the ideas I always had for Squats was a reliance on machines to fill out alot of their roles.

For example, Tanks. I always saw Squats having a metal slug like tank, one man, Small, packs decent firepower for it's size.

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>>48055870
Another thing is, Squats had bikers before. I think this fits them. However, literal bikers doesn't really seem interesting.

Maybe a form of Jetbike, only instead of the elegent craft of the Eldar, they're more like literal flying engines.

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>>48055870
>>48055900

It also needs to capture the Dwarven feel of Heavy metals but Aesthetic touches.

Maybe Squats have an Art Deco Feel to their buildings and designs?

it mimics the WHFB Dwarven straight lines and runic designs quite well, and Goves Squats an Aesthetic that fits.

>>48055870
>First, Not everything in the army needs to be a fucking mining rig or from mining. if you actually want to have the Space Dwarven feeling, you need dedicated warriors.

That is a good point. We did start from an asteroid miner theme, when the ideas started first flying, so it perhaps tinted this to a bit too great degree.

>Why do they outnumber the Squats dramatically? it detracts from the squats themselves.
The idea was that they would use drones to supplement their low numbers. The individually weak, but numerous drones would be contrasted by the more powerful and dangerous flesh and blood squats, whose numbers would be a bit more limited. In order for the Drones to perform well, they would also need to be directed by Squat operators, marking the drones as tools of the squats, not actual beings in themselves.
That was the idea at least. Dunno if we went overboard with it.

>Some of the ideas I always had for Squats was a reliance on machines to fill out alot of their roles.
Agree with that, which was part of the reason for the whole drone idea.

I also agree with the Metal Slug like tanks. The aesthetic fits Squats as well imo.

>>48055900
Completely agree with your musings on the bikes. Some sort of speedy, one man vtol engines would fit the Squats pretty well, and also tie well to the whole space mining stuff too.

>>48055928
Aesthetic wise, I'd see them as a combination of clearly old, industrial machinery, and well crafted, artisanship. Art deco designs would fit pretty well, for the reasons you stated.

All in all, the ideas posted here at this point were just a start. There is no reason why there can't be added more and the Squats be expanded further from just asteroid miners.
There was some musings on Squat equivalent of Slayers earlier in the thread here, >>48050591 for example, that never went anywhere, but imo, could have potential.

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>>48055928
>>48055900
>>48055870

As much as people hate the "-punk" isms for everything, I thing Squats would greatly benefit from the Diselpunk design.

Hell, maybe you COULD include Jetpack infranty Rocketeer style.

>>48055870
Also, the reason for the wide variety of aesthetics in the pictures posted here is mostly just because I simply grabbed any picture that had even a hint of the idea I was going for, mostly from the functional, not from the aesthetical perspective.

For example, this picture>>48046513 has the sort of mechanical support rig for the weapon which I was thinking off in the Demolisher suit idea, so I chose to post it, despite the overall aesthetics of that picture being rather unfitting for the Squats.

>>48055992
Yeah, that would give them a rather unified and unique (in 40k) aesthetic, that would also still rather seamlessly incorporate a lot of the more high tech systems.

>>48055990
Easiest way to represent slayers is quite simple.

They're slayers - in space. maybe Squats are very well adapted for void enviroments?

Strap an oxygen tank on a Squat and he can take a stroll outside of a ship with ease?

Slayers could be nakkid dorfs with breathing masks running around wielding Grav-Hammers and Thermal-Axes.

>>48056021
That could work. They could also be swifter than their armored brethren, because they forgo heavy armored suits etc. Because they originate from high gravity worlds, the squats would probably be surprisingly swift and strong on lower gravity worlds.
Also, instead of body paint, they could have electroos woven into their skin, in the shape of runes etc.

>>48043955

It reminds me the first Dead Space, with all the weapons made of industrial equipment.

What's the stance of /tg/ on the Demiurgs, the rock people that are allied with the Tau?

>>48056067
There is too little real info on them for me to have any concrete opinion on them desu.

>>48056020
When it comes to a list of units, I'd probably go with things like

>Mining infantry
>Low cost civs acting as local Militia or form the bulk of an expedition throng

>Trenchers
>Line infantry, often acting as Security for Mining Operations or as the front line soldiers of the Squats.
>Adept at defensive measures able to dig into cover.


>Riggers
>Miners in Aliens style exo-suits
>Tyranid Warrior size
>Come with hydrolic drills and plasma cutters

>Auto-Seer
>Squat Engineers adept at controling Squat Automatons
>Excavation Automatons - Armed with singular mining drills or Plasma cutters
>Security Automatons - military grade Automatons
>Construction Automatons - Able to build and repair fortifications/ Machines

>Doomseekers
>Squats most hit by the Tyranid attacks
>Slayers in space >>48056021
>>48056048

>Oathguard
>Military grade Exosuits
>Terminators Squat style

Point of things you like/dislike

>>48056048
>>48056021
Maybe the Spesh Slayers could seek vengeance on Tyranids (give them monster hunter rule), for the destruction of the Squat homeworlds?

>>48043955
>powerful but few in number
Congratulations, you re-invented space marines. The niche you're thinking of is already taken by marines (and partly Tau), making adding squats completely pointless.

>>48056079

Basically they are a race of short rock people, who mine asteroids and trade with the Tau. The Ion Cannon technology comes from them and all their tech comes from their mining gear.

I read somewhere that they were forced to work with the Tau because their race was suffering from a "Rock Plague", that slowly transformed their bodies in non sentient rocks. and that the Tau scientists found a way to cure it.

>>48037355
Why the fuck do people insist on riveting modern ballistic armour for fucks sake.
It's like the lessons of the second world war where lost never to be understood ever again in the future.
"Gee he might of survived that bolter round if only his weak rivets didn't explode into his organs like a grenade"
"Oh well get his armour off and re-rivet it ready for the next guy"

>>48056092
That's pretty good man.
I can't say that I dislike anything really. Seems like a more balanced take on the ideas in this thread (as in, balance between mining/drone stuff, and the actual military stuff). The ideas in this thread had been rather heavily tilted towards the mining, and drone stuff, and lacking actual military stuff.

I'd keep at least some of the mining gear weaponry, at least on the miners, Riggers, and Excavation automatons. We just need to come up with some military gear as well.
I personally also like the idea of the "Ancestor robots" that aren't quite automatons, but not quite sapient, and thinking beings either, as they are driven by copied engrams of dead Squat minds, which have been converted into electronic form.

As for military vehicles, I'd perhaps go with Subterranean APCs, Crawler/metal slug tanks, Bulky VTOL aircraft and "jet"bikes.
Also, Dark age of Tech stuff for rare wargear. The Gravity Nullifier posted earlier in the thread for example, could be a cool relic wargear for a HQ unit.

>>48056113
Read the whole discussion m8.

>>48056177
You can say that they're space miners as much as you like, but if they play like marines then they're just refluffed marines not their own faction. Making them 40k version of Vampire Counts would be a good idea though, with robots instead of skeleton hordes.

>>48056242
You are the only one saying that they are space marines.

If "few in number, but powerful" is enough for something to be space marines in your eyes, then Eldar must also be space marines to you.

What sort of military grade weaponry should the squats have?

>>48056259
Eldars are powerful, but flimsy and agile, not marines. Slow, heavily armored, powerful = marine. This should be obvious, yes?

>>48056377
Marines ain't that slow actually. They are jack of all trades.

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Exhuming old part of the discussion: >>48047691
>Their "thing" tactically could be some unique stuff like being much better able to fix their vehicles, being able to burrow around in miner drill thingies and having turbo tank shocks that can bust open land raiders, remote exploding drones, and give them the ability to effect terrain like build pillboxes, remove ruins, etc. A sort of weird area denial army good at repairs and demolitions/bombing things
I like that idea. Made me think of how AT-43 sometime played, with tanks covering infantry while infantry covers and repairs it.
Their MBT (not repurposed mining tech) could be a slow and shooty tank that's also serve as a mobile cover while their main combat unit (not miners militia) could include a (space) engineer to repair the tank as they advance.
Not sure if it would work though, tanks are much more squishier in current 40k than they were in AT43.

The miner militia unit could be able to make up trenches with their tools and hold them till the heat death of the universe.
Before fortification became a thing, I had the idea for IG to give "labour point" for each troup squad without a vehicle to buy defensive equipments. Maybe they could get fortifications depending on their workforce?

>>48048477
About psykers:
- Maybe their own evolution didn't go toward the psyker potential. They simply can't be born psyker naturally. Could help making them think they are truer inheritors of the DAoT
- But old fluff had very old squats, ancestors, with psychic powers as their body turn into stone.
- They could have technomages, not psyker themselves but using psychic DAoT tech. Or just DAoT that serve the same purpose without anything psychic.
- Much crazier idea: they have psychic AI. Sentient robots that had "grown" a soul over millennia. Their special failsafe against chaos (beside standard anti-psychic tech) is to erase their minds and upload an older version of themselves, in a new hardware if necessary.

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>>48037412
Why is Drake McBaines dwarf cousin there?

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>short
>beards
>big noses
>few in number
>greedy
>intelligent
>crafty
>robots (see: golems)
>live in fortresses
>abhuman

Why not make them Jews?

>>48056794
7/10 you got me you fucking goyim prick. Although that does make me wonder, is there a Jewish culture faction in 40k? I can't remember anybody who seems like they're inspired by it.

>>48056914
I guess, imperial guard in general has a lot of modern israel elements. I mean everyone has to serve in the military, they are constantly fighting for their survival and everyone around them wants them dead. I'm surprised there isn't an obvious reference though, like some regiment/chapter/craftworld (or any other subfaction), that has a fluff of being some new funded safe haven in a really hostile place in the galaxy.

>>48056978
I checked the fluff on Cadia and they come really close to what Israel is right now. Interpreting it that way gets /pol/-tier really fast, but there are a lot of similarities, more than with any other western nation (I think).

>>48056172
Because it's cool

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Okay this seems as good a place to ask as any rather than make a new thread.

Im running a rogue trader game and I want my players to come across a dwarf versus dwarf war or to be precise a small isolated squat league versus a migrating Demiurg Brotherhood. I can adapt stuff from this thread and old gw fluf for the squat league but has anyone done anything with the Demiurg to make them alien-space-dwarfs? Cause I really want to have the two cultures be just different enough for it to matter.

>>48037315
Their niche was being technologically advanced and having great fortresses.

PDF ANON RETURNS!

sees thread

>>48055870
>>48055900
I like your ideas anon, rest easy, I wasn't done with the list by a long shot, and stuff can always be trimmed if it's a bit much.

>>48056794
The current fantasy (Tolkien) version of Dwarves (greedy, selfish, gold-hording, large-nosed, bearded) is based on jews, according to Tolkien.
That's why a group of them trick an honest englishman (Hobbit) into helping them "retake" their homeland from an evil force, only to find the adventure was all about gold and the Dwarves' greed start a bloodier conflict than the dragon ever did.
Oh and another group of greedy "Dwarves" release a Balrog...think about that for a minute.

>>48057291
lol, read the book anon. The dwarves make it very clear that they're after the gold from the beginning. There's a reason why they were hiring a "Burglar" after all.

>>48057291
thinking about that for a minute, I cant help but see the way you read an entirely different narrative than Tolkien, which shows your colours far more than his. Tolkien was not writing anything like what you imagine.

>"Thank you for your letter... I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware noone (sic) of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people."

Tolkien’s dwarves are a conscious inversion of Wagner’s negatively “Jewish” dwarves, meant to flip the switch on the anti-semitic stereotypes which Wagner inserted into the operatic retelling of the Sigurd/Seigfried Ring cycle. As a lover and academic of Scandinavian mythology, Tolkien despised the Nazis’ distortion of ancient tales:

>“Anyway, I have in this war a burning private grudge… against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler. He is ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making forever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light.”

>>48057220
>>48057103

Its horribly tempting to sit down with a sketchbook and do concept art of what a redesigned squat faction could look like...

"Step. Away. From. The. Drawing. Board"

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>>48057478
Added Doomseekers and Oathguard
added Crawler to Excavator Drones and Relay Drones

We have a deep striking transport that rolls around afterward grinding up tanks. What about an open-topped crawler transport (think a legged dump truck repurposed for transporting troops.)

>>48057411
Damn didn't know Tolkien was such a miserable cunt.

>>48057478
Please do anon.

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Damn, this is a pretty neat thread.
While I must say I'm a bit more biased towards space miners (>>48047814 fuck yeah rock raiders) I like pretty much all the ideas ITT

One thing I have kind of noticed is that a few weapons and things are very similar to existing equipment and a few other things - I'm gathering a list of things and their rules that I think would make sense

Though I'll leave the most obvious one here though while I do that, pic related

> Fantasy dwarves have an oath fetish.
> Space dwarves have oath-contracts.
Never break a deal with space-dwarves...

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>>48057845
>think would make sense
for them to have, or at least think about them having. Doh

I am wondering about grav weapons though - there's already 2 types - current marine ones and HH-era graviton ones

If we're establishing that Squats are good at manipulating gravity, should they have either, both or something completely unique to themselves?

The latest rules for >>48057845

>>48057887
this works pretty well, but we already have a tunneling transport. I guess the question is, which version do we use?

>>48056021
My weird, special snowflake idea of Slayers was... I dunno, a Claimjumper.

Former thieves who'd steal other people's claims in times of desperation, convicted and working as the first people to go into suspect mineshafts, digging tunnels in the hazardous, gas-filled areas in order to speed up a project, and working as shock troops during combat, using their heavy-duty mining tools to crack skulls, hoping to find an honorable death in the battlefield.

>>48056756
Those ideas sound good.

I personally like the idea of them having "technomages" who specialize in the usage of almost arcane daot tech, that may even utilize warp. The Squats themselves aren't psychic, but the devices they use channel psychic energy, which in turn, can have averse effects to the squats using them over time.

>>48057478
DO EEET.
I am having the same temptation myself.

>>48058214
Claimjumping could be one reason why one is forced to take the path of a doomseeker.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't dwarves take up Slayer oaths if they have done some grievous misdeeds, dishonorable stuff, or failed an oath?

For doomseekers whose reasons lie in the loss of the homeworlds to tyranids, they could feel like they failed the oath of defending their homeworld against the nids, which is why they take up the oath, whereas other squats may have the oath forced upon them after doing something dishonorable.

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New version.
Added HQ characters, crawler transport
Formatted relics

Next to arrange the unit entries by FOC slot.

>>48057887
The Melta Cutter Drill is S User AP2 | Shred, Armourbane

>Lascutter (Power Drill) S9 AP2 |Melee, Unwieldy

In some iterations reduces WS down to 1 and the number of attacks you can ever make (even when charging) due to the additional “Cumbersome” rule, though as Squats are more used to using them and are good with gravity that’s probably ignorable (notably it doesn’t apply on Orgryn’s lascutter/power drill from the Tyrant’s legion take them)

>Breacher Charge: [Special] S8 AP2 |Melee, 3” Blast, Wrecker.

Instead of making normal attacks, a model with a breacher charge may make a single attack: place the 3” template anywhere in base contact, so that it is covering the enemy and no friendly models. Roll WS against enemy majority WS (buildings + emplacements + stationary vehicles auto-hit), if successful the template stays where it is, if not roll scatter dice (re-rolling Hit!) and flip the template over in the direction shown by the arrow.

>Hardened Armour: Count as Void Hardened for Zone Mortalis missions (protects from Rending caused by the rules there) and re-rolls failed armour saves from template or blast weapons, but reduces charge, sweep advance and run moves by -1".

I reckon this could make sense for most of the non-exo-armour units, given that they’re space miners and also slow dwarves

>Mole Launcher 8”-24” S5 AP5 |Heavy 1, 3” Blast, Strikedown, Subterranean Barrage

Subterranean Barrage: may only fire indirectly, always hit targets with Armour Value at the lowest listed AV, regardless of the direction of fire. Can be used in Zone Mortalis, despite the usual ban on indirect weapons
Is Heavy Flamer sized

>Suspensor Web: unit treats Heavy weapons as Assault when firing at targets within ½ range, has no other effects on snap shots and the like

On the subject of non-tau drones, the Imperium has Fire Wasp (scout) and Devastation (bomb) Drone both of which are T5 "infantry" strategems from Zone Mortalis, and the Cyclops

For those not reading the pdfs

HQ
Guildmaster
Droneminder
Electoo Priest

TROOP
Miners
Mining Drones

ELITE
Demolishers
Oathguard
Drone Transmitter Nodes
DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
Autoauger
Lodebearer
FAST ATTACK
Prospectors
Doomseekers
Spider Drones
Detector Drones
HEAVY SUPPORT
Borers
Bulwark Drones
Excavator Drones
Tunnel Runner
LORD OF WAR
Living Ancestor

>>48058740
I'd put the bullwark drones into elites.

We also need more troop choices.

>>48058740
continued:
The squats revere their ancestors. When a squat elder of some importance is near death, An engram of his brain is made and uploaded to a clan's Central Intelligence Engine. This artifical intelligence (which may or may not be crazy from all of the input from dead squats) is the lorekeeper of the clan and allows the living access to their past.

After the fall of the homeworlds to a Tyranid hive fleet, the surviving squats have been doomed to a fleet-based society. Gone are the warmachines from the height of their power. Now, when the must wage war (and in this dark age there is ONLY war) they do so with the resources at hand: converted industrial tools and simpleminded worker drones that now make up the majority of their army strength.

>>48058789
any ideas for another troop choice? someone earlier mentioned Trenchers: dedicated combat (security) forces that can build terrain. Sound good?

I will move the Bulwark Drones in the next version.

Do we have lava guns? Do we need lava guns?

>>48056092
>Doomseekers
>not Doom Slayers
I'm slightly saddened.

>>48058861
Trenchers would be good.
We just need to come up with dedicated combat weaponry for them, instead of just repurposed mining gear.

>>48058880
>Doom Slayers
>Outfit themselves with large amounts of property damage causing weapons and charge into battle trying to get killed by the biggest things and also take those things with them.
WITNESSED!

>>48058877
If we were going for an elemental or planetary theme maybe.
>Some Squat homeworlds are lava-filled Death Worlds
>They forge using the heat & harvest food from its nutrients
>Molten metal is weaponry before being cooled
>They decide to weaponize this

>>48058917
see >>48052702

>>48058910
autoguns? easy to make/repair?

>>48058939
In that case, we'd probably have to tone down the mining gear weapons somewhat, because what they are now, clearly outshine a bunch of autoguns.

Personally though, I'd give them some sort of turbo lasers, because if we go with the idea of them being security/warriors intended to also work in space stations and space ships, laser weapons would do far less collateral damage than bullet weapons would (no ricochet to mess shit up etc).

>>48058939
Specially designed ones. Even the Norse Dwarves had an emphasis on forging. They made Mjolnir for one.

>>48058971
>>48058974
Gotcha
Trencher special rule.
Defensive Position: At the start of your movement phase this unit may forego moving and place 1 Long and 1 Short piece of Defense Line within 3” of the unit. Remove these pieces if the unit moves.

>>48059027
Thunder Pistol
Range 12", S4, AP-, Pistol, Pinning
Thunder Rifle
Range 24", S4, AP-, Rapid Fire, Pinning

>>48059120
maybe add concussive?

>>48059161
concussive only really works against multi-wound models though.

>>48059192
sure, but it does fit

>>48059211
Pinning or Concussive, pick one. I'm not happy putting two special rules on a basic troop weapon.

>>48059230
I don't see why, but if you are going to pick one,pinning fits better.

>>48058971
>probably have to tone down the mining gear weapons somewhat
Might not be the worst thing in the world, depending on what you see the role of Miners and Trenchers as

Balancing and defining the roles of re-purposed equipment with military remnants will probably be key to getting Squats "right"

>>48059272
are we going to keep beating around the bush, or should we start talking numbers? The numbers have been placeholders since I started doing the pdfs anyway.

>>48059312
Not that anon.

What do you think about Miners having Shotguns 12" S4 AP- Assault 2, backed up with nasty CC equipment, and Trenchers having longer ranged guns?

I am aware that that's an imperial weapon, but for a long time the squats were an independent force in the imperium, a bit like the admech are

>>48059272
The Trenchers should be the ones expected the main combat guys imo, while miners ought to be the support orientated ones.

File: Squats Weapons List.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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I've already done some trimming, but what do you see as the big offenders power-wise?

>>48059432
possibly. take a look at the revised arc-cutter and see what you think.

>>48054489
>hate fueled machines
noice

>>48059543
I prefer Longstanding Grudge Rectifiers myself.

But whatever works I guess.

>>48059543
Methinks the Chaos Squats should have hate-fueled machines too.

>>48059543
There are ideas for both big hate machines>>48055116, and even bigger ones, as in the Living Ancestors from the pdf.

So you can get your hate powered kill bot in many sizes!

File: 1437789441912.png (434KB, 571x540px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48035803
I really don't see what kind of niche squats could fill in 40k. Their thing in fantasy is that they are the only ones that use tons of guns and artillery and advanced technology. In 40k everyone has guns and artillery and advanced technology, so that angle can't really work.

I don't dislike the idea of having them be miners that re-purpose their equipment for war, but gameplay wise I don't see what niche they would fill again. The only thing they got going is that they are slow.

>>48043955
This is just space marines but slow. What would make them unique gameplay wise?

>>48035803
They are shit. The epitome of "hurr durr the Mechanicus/Imperium are dumb".

If you gave the Squats control of the whole Imperium, mankind would have won all its wars in a week. Dumbass Mary Sue faction that doesn't belong in 40k.

>>48059752
>everyone has guns and artillery and advanced technology
>Imperium uses Lasguns, Bolters & shit
>Eldar uses Shuriken
>Necrons use Gauss
>Tau use Ion
They're still different tech.

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>>48059775
>Dumbass Mary Sue faction
Cato Sicarius & Kaldor Draigo just called.

>>48059770
The Drone stuff, being able to entrench themselves to a position, having a lot of walkers, subterranean apcs that can drill themselves straight out of the ground, in the midst of the enemy forces, lots of powerful DAoT tech etc.
As in, stuff discussed in the thread after that post. That was merely the initial idea.

File: White Dwarf in Space.jpg (84KB, 873x627px) Image search: [Google]

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So what should the Squats' relationship to the imperium be?
IIRC, in the old lore the Squat homeworlds were integrated into the imperium in a similar way to Mars and the forgeworlds - in return for forces and resources they were allowed some freedom and were granted protection in times of war.
Evidently a fair bit of that failed, given the majority of the Squat worlds got eaten - given how hard to move they were, I think that'd be a fair explanation (/excuse) of where all the land trains and stuff are

The reason I'm thinking about this in particular is the list here >>48059439
It's a fine list, but it's also a whole load of unique weapons - I'm not sure where I'd put the line between not having enough and being just another imperial army, and having too many and being special snowflakes

>>48059826
Hey now, I didn't say Squats were the *only* Mary Sue faction.

Just about every codex has something retardedly over the top now. Except maybe Chaos and Eldar, although I haven't read their latest stuff.

>>48059869
I could see them still using older imperial tech, but after the imperium left them for dead, (no support during a nid invasion, thanks guys.) they have a bit of a grudge. They're not willing to engage in all-out confrontation with the imperium, but they're alot less friendly as well.

Allies of Convenience at best.

>>48059869
A lot of those weapons are different from imperial ones because they were initially conceived as repurposed mining equipment.
That is partially because of the whole "homeworlds got nommed by nids" thing, which would entail them losing quite a bit of their actual war equipment.

As for their relations to the Imperium, I'd got with a rather strained one, that has been falling apart ever since Imperium failed to protect the Squat homeworlds from nids.

>>48059869
In the old lore, Mankind tried subjugating the Squats like they do with all other subhumans. The Squats fought off the stupid, dogmatic, primitive and generally inferior (etc) humans with little effort and made the Imperium suck their dicks.

>>48059839
But none of that shit is a niche?

Tau already do the whole holding position and drone stuff, they also rely on mechs / walkers, which marines do too with the more iconic dreadnought. The subterranean thing is basically just deep strike, kinda like what some tyranid units have already...

I would love to see squats come back, but everything I heard so far is just stuff another faction does just as well / more iconically. Truly tau are gameplay wise what squats should have been, they just went for the anime aesthetic instead...

>>48058404
Maybe they're two seperate units? We could have more military minded Doomseekers who use old school armaments like Heresy-Era flamers, melta guns, improvised rocket launchers/railguns, and convicted Doomseekers fixed up with combat drugs, wielding Thunder Hammers and Pit-Slave style prosthetic weapons.

PTSD scarred veterans, and Penal units, basically.

>>48060040
Then what niche should they fill in your opinion?

Keep in mind that the ideas here didn't start out from a point of view of "this army needs to fill a niche" but from a view of what would be an interesting reboot of the squats, that would bring dwarfish themes to 40k well.

>>48059906
>>48059916
Yeah, that's kind of what I figured - the won't war with them in particular, but they certainly don't like them or look to them as allies - I could see the admech trying to "save" some squat tech during the nid invasion, but not really giving a shit about the squats themselves


Would it be acceptable to use imperial Grav and/or Graviton weapons, >>48057887 or some stuff mentioned >>48058509 along with their custom/re-purposed stuff (I'm the guy suggesting shotguns, if miners have mainly CC gear), do you think?

Obviously the old squat elite and soldiers, the hate-walkers, and probably most drone stuff should be organically equipped with unique stuff, as purpose-built squat military equipment (though I'd suggest drones are more a post-exile thing), but things like the Plasma Burner seem a little needless to me - a Plasma or Melta gun (melta imo) would do pretty much the same thing

>>48060040
>drone stuff
>not Robo-quats
>not entire squads consisting of machines lead by a real Squat
>no A.I. or Dark Age tech

>>48060172
Yeah, the plasma burner could be just a meltagun.

Also, the squats using a lot of grav stuff is fitting imo. We discussed them having a lot of gravity manipulating tech earlier in this thread.

>>48059906
I remember the 1d4chan one hlisted different Leagues specializing in different things. One side is allied with the Imperium, another fell to Chaos, etc.

>>48060224
>Missing how Drone Network and Drone Controller
>Missing all the fluff about how the drones are made
>Missing the Lorekeeping AI that sends them on (somewhat pointless) grudge matches.

>>48060242
we're specifically doing squats Post-nids
So their fluff boils down to "We had lots of cool shit. but all that changed when the fire nation (nids) attacked."

>>48060237
That was my thinking, I liked the idea - also, the HH/boarding Graviton guns, while not amazing statwise, have terrain effects

>>48060156
Tbh idk, the way I see it tau are already dwarves gameplay wise so idk...

Maybe they could be a force made entirely of units mounted in walkers / spider like crawlers with only few ground troops carried by tunnelers. Go all-out on the repurposed mining tools theme and make them look relatively low-tech compared to the other races.

So it's almost like an opposite of the dwarf trope of high tech and riches. The squats used to be great but got surpassed by everyone else, so they are a bunch of pissed off miners now.

There is a race with only walkers from btgoa which was my inspiration...

>>48060354
Now see, this is a decent idea. We could go that route with minimal changes. Basically remove the drones, and make the drone controllers be able to buff the walkers and suits instead?

>>48060480
As long as all the buffs are based on technology and not psykers sure thing. Maybe this faction is the remains of the squats which hid underground from the nids. This isolation gives them increased resistance to psychic powers?

>>48060547
yeah, fluffwise, the controller sees someone not working/fighting hard enough and overrides the systems to manually do better.

>>48060604
also, changed the grav weapons to be graviton from HH book 1. And plasma burners are now just melta.

>>48060604
In that case, wouldn't he be more of a Foreman than a Controller?

I think it's a better name if we're dropping or reducing drones.

I think an Overclock ability that would add more attacks to the unit at the expense of potentially causing wounds/reducing AS would be interesting as well.

>>48060480
Why should the drones be removed?
It's not like they are even that advanced machines. They are basically extremely simple minded industrial/asteroid mining robots, that need to be directed by the Squat operators for them to be of any real use. They are tools among other tools, not even on the level of Tau drones.

Perhaps calling them automatons would be better, to distinguish them from tau drones?

>>48060834
maybe keep them as a singular unit: the Mining Automatons.

>>48060918
Why not Automatons instead of Drones?

>>48060354
>of units mounted in walkers / spider like crawlers
Kind of reminds me of killa kans, though it's still a cool idea

>>48060834
Hmm, could a buff-guy work as both a drone squad controller and as a way of making a unit better?

You know how techmarines can crew a thunderfire or be attached to a vehicle, this Controller might be the one at the back of a squad of drones controlling them, or they could be in with one of the elite units, making sure their exo-armour keeps working (and buffing them when shit goes down)

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Can there be Dwarf-like Robots? They're not the same as drones.

>>48061132
That is sorta what this idea here>>48055116
is trying to get at.

File: Squats Units Revised.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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Take a look, revised edition.

Never fear, the drone network thing still exists, just in a new form.

>>48061274
Won't open properly for some reason.

>>48061377
huh, I'm not having any issues.

>>48061478
I don't know what's causing it in my end. It just loads to an empty page.

File: Squats Codex Revised.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>48061377
try this, the resolution is shit though

>>48061501
>>48061502
I restarted my browser, and the problem vanished. Weird.

>>48061274
Looks good. I do think that there ought to be more than just one type of drones, maybe 2 or 3, but that's just me.

Also, we could start figuring out the Squat bikes/jetbikes discussed earlier, as well as the metal slug style battle tank idea that was brought up.

Other than that, we could also start compiling the various lore ideas etc to get a more coherent picture of the race as a whole.

File: Untitled.jpg (265KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48061693
>tfw you will never ever see Squat robots riding motorcycles

>>48061712
Could be a special character.
A cybernetic squat who nobody knows if he is originally machine with flesh bits on it, or if he is originally a squat, who has tons of metal bits inside of himself.