Warhammer 40k General

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Let's start this general off with some bingo. The free tile for today is Pic related

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>>48031131
First for the Emperor!

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>>48031159
Fuuuck, here's the bingo card.

3rd for Magnus did nothing wrong

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I claim this thread for Oldhammer

Post your older minis

Legit good units in shitty codexes, GO.

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>>48031159
>>48031172
thread ruined in record time, an impressive 2:47 but I think we can do better. next thread we're going for 2:30, we can do this!

>>48031170

>anything more than 1500 and you barely have enough room on a 6' x 4' table for your units

You clearly haven't seen a lot of the armies on the table in todays times then.

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>>48031181
>about to post some 3rd/4th OOP shit
>see pic
Fuck man, I can't compete with that. Have some OOP shit I like anyway

>>48031210
Vespids.

>>48031210

> Legit good units in shitty codexes

I'm starting to believe this kind of thinking is a trap.

>>48031213
>units have become cheaper over the years and army size has swollen from skirmish to company level
>You clearly haven't seen a lot of the armies on the table in todays times then.

???

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>>48031212
> Posts the bingo card
> Claiming that bingofag is ruining the thread
You really were dropped on your head, weren't you?

>>48031265
>he doesn't know about superheavies

>>48031265

I've see a lot of armies on the table that number less than twenty actual units and in some cases less than seven at the 2000 point level.

>>48031266
That doesn't make any sense and I don't know what you're talking about faggot, give me those dubs. I'll put them to better use.

>>48031210
Tempestus Scions

>>48031307
That's not an army.

>>48031210
Noise and Plague Marines.

Thousand Sons are much better than people think they are, too.

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>>48031303
>>48031307
>every game in 40k is now all superfriends and superheavies because the internet told me so

as somebody who actually plays the game, here's a secret: people field other lists too

>>48031213
>>48031265
>>48031307
Imperial Cults and Militia, Double-CAD at 1850 points

> Force Commander: 85
- Cult Horde
> Force Commander: 85
- Cult Horde

12x 50-man Inducted Levy Squads: 100 points per squad

That's a grand total of SIX HUNDRED AND TWO(602) models with Fearless/Zealot

With 480 points left to spend on anything else for support.

>>48031354
>plague memes
>good

opinion descarted. they're literally just slightly harder to kill bolter marines with an extra special weapon for absurd points cost, how about no.

>>48031355
Except superfriends is dead.
I play the game and I encounter superheavies on a semi-regular basis. Fuck, it doesn't even need to be those, the player can just buy more tanks or something.

As somebody who actually plays the game, here's a secret: people field other armies than infantry spam too.

>>48031170
>Why doesn't everyone just play smaller points so its easier to netlist?

All the people that demand to play at 1500-1850 have the same bullshit that makes their army cheesey.

>How come people want to use the most of their collection and have fully kitted lists with no majoy flaws?

"Sure hope I can bring this Imperial Knight to a 1500pt game so it can take my opponent 2+ turns to kill IF he is prepared for it."

>Why do people want to field a huge army once in a while?

So it feels like they are actually playing an army and not a unit that wouldnt even fill a company.

We play 3000pts on a 6x4 table, after that we do 8x4 sometimes.

>>48031384
>>48031384
>they're literally just slightly harder to kill bolter marines with an extra special weapon for absurd points cost,

And Defensive Grenades and Poisoned (2+) melee weapons, too. Don't forget that.

I personally think Noise Marines are better, but then again I value utility over raw durability.

>>48031354
I agree with the TS and Noise. You just need to send them against the proper targets. Plagues.. eh, not entirely sold.

>>48031250
How can it be a trap?

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would it be good at 140 points?

>>48031391

They can also have highly upgraded squads and regular units as well.

In the case of some like Tau, Grey Knights and Heresy armies, I rarely see them wanting for room on the board.

>>48031391
Different guy. But while under 20 can happen in list, though more often there are another 10+ models hiding in transports, under seven at 2000 pts is massive superheat spam. Well outside the norm.

>>48031437
Try poisoned 4+ CCWs. Their melee weapons suck. And defensive grenades are useless because nobody does melee anymore.

>>48031469

>poisoned 4+

You're right, my bad. I'm a little drunk so bear with me.

>And defensive grenades are useless because nobody does melee anymore.

In your meta, mabye.

All I know is, as a person who runs Noise Marines frequently against Plague Marines, they ain't nothing to fuck with. They're not super-killy and not invincible, but they're still pretty solid units.

>>48031456
It's a start but IMO it should be 130 with the extra mouthgun being 20. They ain't that durable and have BS3. They should also be able to be squadron'D

>>48031213
Even at 1500, Battle Companies will routinely put a dozen or more Rhino sized vehicles on the board.

At anything higher than 1500, I routinely have 100 Pink Horrors swarmed throughout my deployment zone, and I'll usually add 20+ models after my first psychic phase. Shit's ridiculous.

>>48031441

>How can it be a trap?

It can be subjective as to whether or not a unit is "shit".

>>48031210
Warbosses, seriously.
85 points minimum for an IC with 4 S10 ap2 attacks with WS5.

>>48031541
that would make them by far the best dreadnought in the game, essentially

but I guess since dreads are shit that's more of an argument against other dreads than an argument against improving the forgefiend

>>48031561
Not in the shitty codexes. What do Orks have going for them but Warbikers, Mek Gunz and lootas? Those are legit good units in an otherwise atrocity of a codex.

>>48031354
Plague Marines are only slightly more durable than regular marines against anti-MEQ weapons. Noise Marines are way to expensive as anything other than MSU Blastmaster squads.

Thousand Sons are garbage through and through. 30PPM MEQ's that die just as easy to bolter fire and have their effectiveness gutted by any form of cover. Plague Marines point for point are superior for hunting MEQ's, the only thing Thousand Sons can even pretend to be okay at.
>>48031210
These are always stupid. It's just people making retarded claims that mediocre units are good because they're in shit codexes.
>>48031441
>How can it be a trap?
Because nobody ever posts good units.

>>48031580
Is it, though? A dread is versatile as fuck with multiple variants and weapon options to suit most roles. A Forgefiend is a one trick pony with a choice of 2 weapons only. A balanced unit is by definition given something great but also take away something great in equal measures.

Dreads have versatility and potential, Fiends have the narrow use but cheaper cost.

>>48031585

>lootas

Case in point, those are not one of their better units to me.

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>>48031516
I guess that's what happens when you play in a meta of literally nothing but tau players.

>>48031456
I'd rather is go to like 150, but gain some sort of anti-air ability. Maybe give it "Augury Daemons" or some such and let it choose an ability once a turn from a list of like Skyfire, Interceptor, and -1 Cover Saves.

Interceptor Ectoplasmafiends would make a hell of a deterrent against drop pod lists just slagging everything turn one.

>>48031354
Give them the ability to run and shoot (and viceversa) and i'll take them everyday of the week.

At least not to be just a Fearless MoS marine statswise. Boring.

>>48031711
I'd rather they just remove Noise Marines (and Plague Marines and Berzerkers) and then roll all of their stuff into the Mark itself.

Have MoS improve initiative and allow run and gun and/or run and charge. Have MoK improve attacks and grant furious charge. Have MoN improve Toughness and Feel no Pain. Then add in wargear unlocked by Marks. Boom, now you can have Noise Marine Havocs with quad Blastmasters or Berzerker Raptors jetting across the field.

>>48031307
I can make a list that has 52 models at 7000 points.

What units can Eldar take that have "Interceptor"?

>>48031632
They are the prime example of random unreliable power. Roll 3 shots turn on and/or above average to hit rolls and they can devastate an enemy unit, giving you a nice swing for the game.
Go the opposite and they feel so weak. The variablity is just huge.

>>48031210
Orks vehicles. Give them to almost any other codex and they would be op, with Orks they are crap.

>>48031622
>Fiends have the narrow use but cheaper cost.

Forgefiends are literally just funny looking dreadnoughts with daemon rules like 5++, daemonforge, and IWND, which is probably the "logic" behind making it cost so much. Fleet is useless on a Forgefiend. The problem is a matter of scale: once a walker becomes near 200 points, it probably isn't worth it no matter how good the armament due to survivability concerns when it has a low armor value like AV12. So making it cost 130 would make it comparable to a dread, except it has much better guns.

The argument could be made that all dreads need a buff but that's another discussion.

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i just got this small leather measuring tape. Its 50 inches long so I think thats more than enough for a warhammer game
I was thinking of adding a detail into it. any suggestions. It'll probably have to be something simple since the only tools i have is a torch and wire to brand with

>>48031181

What models are these?

Also, not sure if they're yours, but I really like the paint. Especially the green dude on the far left.

>>48031771
Too much imho. No way to differentiate the truly extreme versions of long term warp exposer.

And quad blast masters?

Now if we you backed that back a half step and gave the special marines extras I'd be down.

Say MoS let you take a couple of the noise bolters as special weapons. And do something about the salvo range problem for them. Movies marines all have those base, and can take replace heavy weapons with blastmasters and flamers with noise masters.

Berserkers all get chain axes with ap4 and rending. Etc

>>48031771
Could work.
I'll personally do the other way around, by simply remove the Marks.
I never like them, i prefer to have fluffy detachments.

The idea of Marks giving the same bonuses to Raptors and Obliterators sounds so wrong to me.

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>>48031839
> Once a walker becomes near 200 points, it probably isn't worth it
> It probably isn't worth it

Captain Valentine says Hi. He would like you to know that he's 255 points, and earns back his points on every game he's played in.

Posted at the very end of the last thread. Let's try one more time.

So I fixed/broke/whatever Sisters of Battle. There's a lot less inane and unnecessary shit in here than the other WIP fandexes. Let me know what you guys think.

>todo: Add Repressor (same as FW plus Assault Ramp), Add a flyer, Fix Repentia AoF, Throw everything out and start over to make it not look like complete fucking ass

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B85e0VhuwajQRTRDQ1J4MTJtb1E

>>48031981
What a mess.

>>48031981
>forgeworld abomination with completely different stats

that things is dreadnought in name only, I was speaking more of dreadnoughts as what you could call "DEQ", which means something like AV12 walker, WS4 4, 3HP, and meh tier ranged weapon options + low attacks characteristic

>>48031945
>>48031771
>>48031925
Marks give a unit-specific bonus and access to god-specific armouries. For example, Havocs with Mark of Khorne may get their guns shoot at +1S, Slaanesh an extra shot, Nurgle conferring Ignores Cover while Tzeentch gives them Blast.

But the mark also gives them access to the armouries, so a Tzeentchian Havoc team may take Inferno Bolts for their bolt weaponry. Nurgle can buy them something that gives them Stealth or Shrouded etc.

The marks would have a different effect for each unit it is given to, but the armouries are general.

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>>48031922
Not mine.

I have a good amount of Oldhammers, but it's currently being painted from either me or a propainter.

Those are the first Chaos Marines minis (Chaos Renegades as they were called back there). 1990/1991.

>>48031819

Well for me the problem with Lootas is they often aren't around long enough to do anything of note and some times not around long enough to have even fired a shot before they're falling back or destroyed entirely.

>>48031839
>all dreads need a buff
Was +2 attacks still not enough? In the next few weeks I'll probably be purchasing a DC dread and have it rampage like a metric ton of angry "fuck you" across the battlefield stomping out my friend's sadly useless CSM army.

>>48032029
Old picture where I had just brought valentine out of the strip. I haven't bothered to take a new picture at all recently.

>>48032031
AV13/12/11, 3 HP, WS4, BS5.

It's a Contemptor Equivalent. Higher statline(Either WS or BS), and higher front and rear armour. Really the shitty options is a fault of codexes. And it's got the Relic Of The Armoury restriction, so only one per army.

>>48032123
That was just BA&SW dreadnoughts playing catch-up to the space marine standard. I'm sure when they say all dreads they include helbrutes, deff dreads, etc. in that category as well.

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What do you guys think of Sly Marbo?

>>48032068
At first I thought the different marks for each unit would be too much to handle but now I realise you could just put it on the unit.

Would be too much to combine with my idea of having the different types of csm, warband legions renegades, be present as separate buyable options.

That could probably be handed by something like AoD, with different detachments, formations etc.

>>48032181
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

>>48032180

What about Kans then?

I've heard those are in the category of "Ork Dreadnoughts" some how.

>>48032202
E**c for the win

>>48032180
Ah that's a good point

>>48032181
doesn't exist as far as the tabletop is concerned

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>>48032070
>new chaos codex is announced next year with new edition
>new model line contains a special box set of chaos space marines as a modern remake of those RT era renegades

>>48032123
I own 7 dreadnoughts, I fucking love the +2 attacks. My own group has been arguing too that it applies to Hellbrutes, Deff Dreads, Leviathans, and all other contemptor variants too.

Captain Valentine has at least been enjoying his new 3 attack statline. He just recently got into a fight where I decided to charge him into a squad of Killa Kanz after shooting all guns into them. 4 Attacks on the charge at s6ap- might not seem like much, but they were just enough to finish off a wounded killa kan, so it doesn't charge me and wipe my deredeo out at his own initiative.

>>48032209
'Kanz are 40 points per model in the space 0din dex, and 35 points if you use the Dread Mob from forgeworld. Usually they don't really need the +2 attacks, since that seems pretty ridiculous for a 35/40 point model to have 5 S10 attacks on the charge.

>>48032191
Pretty much yes. Under Marks of Chaos you'd just have "Models with this mark gain the effect listed on their unit entry along with access to the God Armouries" and on the Entry itself just have "All models in this unit may take Mark of Khorne, gaining +1S to their ranged weapons".

Of course it would be a bit of a pain creating varied, useful and hopefully fluffy additions for every unit (since that's at least what... 10 different entries minimum?) but I think it would increase the fun by quite a bit.

>>48032256
S7

>>48032276
Now I have a little regret. Okay, sure they could do with +2 attacks in that regards, since they're just essentially autocannon melee.

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>>48032202
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCMNWAJiz5Y
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>48031226
Are those the old stealth suits? Model looks a bit chunky but the design is good and holds up. Take off the sensor/stealth array whatever it is on the back, and you'd think they were Fire Warriors with heavy weapons. (If they had integrated heavy weapons for their squads that is).

>>48032387
That's pretty much what the old XV15 suits were, mate. Before they created the new suits, the old stealths were just Fire Warriors with a different chestpiece/arm protection to carry the burst cannon and a stealth generator on the back.

It's quite cool honestly, cause you see an evolution of the tech, from the old XV15 to the new and current standard XV25 and the XV22 in the middle.

>>48032319
They're also WS2 and have a special rule that forces them to take panic test meaning Orks leadership is SO BAD they have the only vehicles in that game that take (and fail) panic tests.

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>>48032181
I think he's pretty cool.

What do you guys think of Captain Catachan?

>>48031981
Yeah, but you play with shitters.

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>>48032476
Not unless orkbro is using the Space 0Din fandex. I have been outright refusing to play against ork players unless they use said fandex. It's not fun anymore for me to table an ork player 27 times in a row, usually without even trying to table them. It just fucking happens.

>>48032511
CAPTAIN "I CAN RIP A CARNIFEX IN HALF WITH MY THUMBS" CATACHAN

CAPTAIN "I JUGGLE GREATER BARKING TOADS" CATACHAN

CAPTAIN "I BLEW UP A TITAN BY POINTING AT IT AND SAYING BANG" CATACHAN.

>>48032476

To add insult on top of injury, they're vehicles take a panic test even when they're near a Stompa which makes normal Grots fearless.

That being said if they can get enough hits to land in melee they can be quite effective against Tanks and Monstrous Creatures (preferably with no Invulnerable Save) alike.

>>48032191
>renegades
Fuck off. Chaos Space Marines already has enough ground to cover just trying to cover Space Marines fallen to Chaos. It doesn't need non-Chaos worshipping speshul snowflake groups as well.

>>48032582
They're not getting into melee.

>>48032511
Anon, Sly is Captian Catachan.

>>48032265
Raptors. Khorne: Hammer of Wrath gains blast. Nurgle: Hammer of wrath gains poisoned. Slaanesh: Hammer of wrath unsaved wounds are deducted from the overall Ld of the unit until the end of the next turn. Tzeentch: Hammer of Wrath unsaved wounds are added to a roll of D6. On a 5+, the enemy cannot fight back this turn.

I wonder what the next IG codex will be like.

I hope they don't nerf my tanks.

They'll probably nerf my tanks :(

>>48032531
Do you play with the proper amount of terrain? A proper table has 4 large pieces of Line of Sight blocking terrain, one in each corner where the Dawn of War and Hammer & Anvil deployments intersect. As well as 50% area terrain.

In such a deployment, a Deredeo can lane himself, where he can claim a section of the board as his firing lane for the main guns, and then cover another section out of LOS with his missiles. Only opponents in his limited firing lane can return fire.

On the other hand, an opponent could also go AROUND said firing lanes, taking only the limited damage from S6ap3 missiles. Or just go slower and take the routes through area terrain.

Nearly every bit of cheese in the game can be solved with a properly setup table. You really should consider it, so as to stop tau players from shooting your models "Through the reflection of the tears of a sparrow, between a pinhole in the cardboard terrain that only a tiny sliver of my hammerhead can see"

>>48032604
>Sly
>Training anyone

Captain Catachan is a drill instructor anon.

>>48032602
but that's part of the lore idiot, although it's hilarious that you're so kukt by GW that you now think in the paradigm they have created where you want things to be as simplistic and dumbed down as possible to minimize the risk of breaking everything horribly. that's really healthy man, I admire the confidence you have in your hobby

>>48032603

As often as people say "X will never get into melee", the board has a habit of turning that into a lie.

>>48032685
>kukt
Jesus Christ.

Codex: Chaos Space Marines already has too many disparate factions that it's trying to represent. It just doesn't have room for representing recently turned renegades with little/no Chaos corruption. Those factions would be better served using Codex: Space Marines with a variant chapter tactic.

>>48032625
>They'll probably nerf my tanks :(
What are they going to do? Make Lemans lose Heavy but still stuck moving 6" without Flat Out? It isn't like we have anything ridiculous like Lemans with Grav. I expect the Wyvern to cost more though.

I want more troops choices, PCS and Veterans is kinda lacking variety, maybe a detachment that isn't point heavy like Cadia.

>>48032602
Anon, have you ever considered just playing your CSM using the vastly superior Codex: Space Marines? Just pretend you're recently turned traitors that still have Grav-Cannons.

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Is there anyway to beat a War Convocation with IG? Or am I totally fucked?

I could potentially ally in some basic Space Marine shit with counts as.

What generally is the War Convo's Weaknesses?

>>48032749
>It just doesn't have room for representing recently turned renegades with little/no Chaos corruption.

*Correction: It does have room. What you really mean to say is that you're not confident GW is capable of pulling it off. The kukt part comes in because you're literally nerfing your own wish list to conform to how retarded GW is, which I find to be humorous. It's like a guy who gets turned down by women even in his dreams.

Killa kans should be 50 pt monstrous creatures. It would make their rules make more sense and they would be a lot better for Orks.

>>48032766
I already do, but I'd rather have an interesting, fluffy codex for playing CHAOS Space Marines.

>>48032840

That is a lovely joke there.

>>48032827
The kukt part comes in because you're a moron whose brain has been rotted by shitposting on 4chan.

Even if there were room, non-Chaos shit does not belong in a codex dedicated to Chaos forces. If they don't have Chaos shit, then they should just use the codex for non-Chaos space marines.

I'd rather have focused, workable wish lists than "I want a codex that represents every possible iteration of traitor astartes, regardless of whether they're thematically consistent with the rest."

>>48032758
they could bring back some guard regiments as some bonuses and release a few upgrade kits.

>>48032826
well they lost some power due to the taxi service going out of business. i suggest more blasts and weapons s6 ap4 to counter them. you can also take advantage of their lack of psykers

>>48032435
In the fluff, the XV25 is actually less advanced than the XV15, Tau just retired it because the Imperium was reverse engineering it to fuck with their stealth fields.

>>48031210
Flyrants

>>48032435

A rare convergence come to think, usually new stuff is "old archaeo tech" or some such. If I ever collected 40k again I'd want them to make a new sculpt of the old suit, make an army of hard-pressed and desperate veterans using ersatz formations and equipment.

I used to play Tau back in 4th/5th, before all this super walker stuff. I had the newer stealth suits, some of my favorite models to paint. I liked fielding them too, I remember them being efficient sources of volume firepower.

I painted mine flat brown and green mostly, I figured they're stealth suits even with a field it'd be asinine to paint 'em as bright as possible. I'm just thinking, if I was piloting one I'd tell them to paint it the same shit-brown as the horrible worlds I'm fighting on.

>>48032128
>so only one per army.
One for every 1000 pts now m8.

>>48032573
>>48032573
Sleep tight happy space marine

>>48031812
None

>m-m-m-muh OP army though!

there is one unit in the Corsair List that has it. That's it.

>>48032947
Oh yes, I forgot they had a few captured. I didn't realize they were less advanced though. How could that be, when the XV15 looks like prototype jury-rigged stuff?

>>48032984
Sounds awesome mate and I completely agree with the paint scheme idea. I remember reading something somewhere that stealthsuits do that so in case their stealth fields fail, they still have that potential physical camouflage.

Stealthsuits are really cool units, possibly my favourite unit in the codex and the Tau fluff, honestly. Fluff-wise they have this strange kind of leeway during battle, since they aren't factored into plans and have this rare autonomy and loner status in a culture that deems individuality to be more or less toxic. Game-wise they're just really fun to use. Slippery, mobile, put out great firepower but need tactics or else you'll get them butchered in an instant.

That reliance on player skill is what I love about playing Tau that isn't suitspam bullshit. I can actually lose against Orks if I play badly.

>>48032909
>The kukt part comes in because you're a moron whose brain has been rotted by shitposting on 4chan.
>I get triggered easily by a list of vocabulary words I dislike and choose to focus on this instead of the point of the discussion

Imagine a world where you had free reign to create a rulebook with all the units you wanted and could easily fit a vast variety of rules into a 100+ page book to cover a dizzying array of options and still maintain better balance than the "streamlined" game currently has. GW lives in that world, except they choose not to do that out of either incompetence or malevolence.

Since I'm tired of idiots who cannot think independently and form their own rational game design outside of the stupid existing paradigm, let's go with an example of what could be possible:

>unit: Chaos Space Marines, 1-20
>fearless
>13 points base
>unit may take raptor jump packs (4 ppm) or chaos bikes (5ppm)
>unit may take CCW for 1 point or replace bolter with CCW
>unit may be upgraded to khorne berzerkers which gives them +1 attack, rage, charges from vehicles, and chainaxes, (points as necessary)
>upgraded to plague marines, +1 toughness, poison weapons, etc. you know the score
>same with noise marines and ksons with fixed points and less retardedness, remove the mandatory sorcerer from ksons and lower points or buff them etc.
>deep strike beacon icons
>rhinos, drop pods, etc.
>you may choose to change this unit to "recent renegades" in which case they are no longer fearless, and lose legion tactics/general chaos doctrines(which are more focused on god specific domains than loyalist tactics, make some up) but gain ATSKNF and chapter tactics and access to newer equipment like grav weapons
>add more wargear from older editions like anti-plant grenades to reduce cover saves in vegetation terrain, different marks of bolters/equipment to reflect chaos gear, etc.

the list goes on and on. all of this could fit into one entry and save a shitload of space

I really like Imperial Guard and Skitarii.

Does one have a glaring weakness that the other can cover?

>>48033199
Imperial Guard has incredibly weak regular dudes unless you buy a shitload of them (and at 10 a box, that's a lotta dough). On the other hand, Skitarii infantry is pretty good, good accompaniment to the crazy vehicle shit IG can put out.

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>Been playing Space Marines
>Try out sisters (because Tabletop Simulator)
>They have like 6 units in their codex
>They only have one good unit (Exorcist)

I feel sorry for you Sisters players.

>>48033251
>Sisters players
They exist?

>>48033251
muh dominions

>>48033244
So I could have my Skitarii be the troops and whatnot, and have the Guard roll up with some artillery? I do love artillery.

>>48032941
Its a bit of a long shot but I hope they would buff the Vanquisher. If it shot twice it could at least reliably drop 1 HP a turn.

Hey, are all 40k marines secret Heretics for ignoring the Emperor and having librarians, or did they overturn that rule after the Heresy?

>>48033294
Nobody does Artillery better than IG, they got Basilisks, Medusas, Griffons, siege tanks and all kindsa shit. And if you absolutely positively want to fuck someone's shit up, get a Deathstrike. It's an actual nuke.

Well I'm not too knowledgeable about what troop choices IG can field to fulfill the CADbut I'm pretty sure you can do that somehow.

>>48033347
I'll figure something out.

Thanks, I'll look into the artillery options.

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>>48033164

Dude, that's all over the place, and doesn't really know what it wants to do.

As bad as it may sound, at its CORE, the CSM codex isn't a bad one. The issue is that it was not polished when it came out, and has only gotten worse with time. Many of the concepts and units were solid, just not very well executed.

Something like this is better. It fixes many of the glaring errors of the CSM codex, and conveys different boni and benefits depending on your Legion or Renegade Tactics, essentially "polishing" the already existing Codex to be what it always should have been.

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>>48033007
You're thinking of Legacies of Glory. They have a restriction of only one per 1000 points.

This is Relic of the Armoury.

>>48033335
It wasn't overruled but during the Heresy Emps said it was okay for Imperial psykers to use mind bullets at Horus's forces.

>>48032884
Joke? Spyders are 50 pts and are hardly OP, and it would allow Kan Walls to work again.

>>48033347

Is artillery an effective way to play guard? I havne't played 40K in a long time, but if I ever got back into it I'd pretty much just want a Krieg-esque force dug into trenches with a shitton of artillery. Maybe some Salamander allies to hold the line or something.

>>48033409
Only one vehicle can have legacies of glory but that one vehicle can have as many legacies as you want.

How necessary is a Commissar for a conscript blob of 30 men?

>>48033627
Very.

>>48033602
Which is pointless, since that's hilariously expensive. The legacies don't even give that big of a benefit usually, and are quite expensive. Usually you would only ever want ONE anyway, so you don't want to spend too many points on any single model.

>>48033651
Damn, alright.

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>>48033362
Emperor's Wrath sounds like a formation you can build up to in the future. Twin-linked barrages that ignore cover has some strong potential.

>>48033627
Either a commissar or priest is near mandatory.

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>>48033384
>Dude, that's all over the place, and doesn't really know what it wants to do.

But it isn't, that's not an argument. There's no reason not to have a shitload of options, and my example would allow much greater customization in a game all about Your Dudes. People like choices, and sure, there will be some options that rise to the top as the most optimal. That already happens anyway. There's no reason why GW couldn't easily represent a shitload of different options in each entry, it's just lines of text that *should* be playtested with quite a bit of mathhammer and of course actually playing test games for context. An analogy from the Elder Scrolls series: Morrowind has many options and is considered one of the best RPGs of all time despite some dead options and wonky stuff but that's not the point, it allows choice. Choice is fun. Skyrim by comparison is casualized for 13 year olds, if you think this sort of "streamlining" is good then we will just have to fundamentally disagree. I want Dwarf Fortress 40k, you want Candy Crush 40k.

I really hate the "you couldn't fit it all in" meme because I can easily come up with a vast array of choices that would require mere lines of text but greatly alter how units work in fun, fluffy ways:

basic MEQ CSM entry, unit types:
>recent renegades, veterans of the long war, cult troops, various different non-legion factions like "violators chaos marine" or "the flawless host noise marine", chosen in artificer armor, flamer-specialized havocs, lascannon-specialized havocs, etc.

bikers
>recent renegade bikers, bikers of the long war, cult troop bikers, specialized bikers like "red corsairs melta ambush team", HQ escort specific bikers like "retinue of witches", etc.

There's plenty of cool stuff to dig up in the lore, you could have 20+ different unit types for each model type and cover everything everybody could want from the chaos space marines lore. So why not do it?

>muh streamline

No, kys.

>>48033160

I agree visually the 15 seems really simple. From a narrative standpoint it makes sense to me though. In WWII many weapons and tanks would have simplified production as the war went on, so you'd get designs that were on the whole more capable but cruder in manufacture. I can believe they found the xv15s too expensive to make, and ended up mass producing the bulker xv25s, and they'd be happy with it anyway since they could carry more firepower.

I definitely enjoyed how they played too, flexible and affordable, deepstriking so they were always a threat-in-being.

>>48033164
>I'm going to prove that everything can be made into one nice, sensible entry
>by posting an awful, gibbeih list that tells us nothing
Stay mad and stupid, shitposter. Renegades need to fuck off.

If Scions are already in the Guard codex, why do they have their own book? Are these different rules?

>>48033808
They're a troop choice in their own codex instead of Elites, and they get some special orders (though it's hard to really make a good use of them).

It'd be nice if they had some more unique things though.

>>48033808
So you can ally scions off to another faction like Sm or inqusition. They aldo have their own ld commands.

>>48033746
see
>>48033708

and stop being the CoD kiddie of wargaming

>>48033852
>>48033854
Ah I see.

>>48033808
They let you give massed plasma troopers preferred enemy, they surgically remove vehicles and infantry.

Also firing massed volley guns to murder space marines.

>>48031377
Nurgle can almost pull that off with double tallyband and nurglings.

Best i got was 444 wounds with 113 models, and it has an army wide invuln, infiltrate, shrouded, and the ability to make more of them......

Not to mention both heralds have a 12in fnp bubble.......

Maybe I should be playing this army.

Tallyband 1:
Herald warlord with fecundity, lesser reward, and ML1.
7x nurgling at nine models each.
Tallyband 2:
Herald with fecundity and ML1
4x units of nine nurglings.
2x of 3 nurglings
1x of 5 nurglings

Why won't this work anons?

>>48033199

I can't tell you much about skitarii, but I can tell you plenty about IG.

There are a couple of units that are excellent on their own:
>wyvern
>punisher
>chimera

Then, there are some that are only good in conjunction with others. Infantry fall into this category - they are bad if you just take them without using force multipliers, but get much, much better per point if you invest in them:

>sanctioned psykers+priests+50-man platoons with orders
>same as above but with conscripts
>Atlas recovery tank+enginseers in chimera behind Russ wall
>Kurov's Aquilla in a transport, surrounded by plasma spamming infantry and chimera veterans

What guard lacks are cheap, fast units that can seize objectives in the late game. Valkyries do this, but are kind of pricey. Tauroxen can do this, but are fragile as shit.

Guard also has no very good counter-assault unit, and relies heavily on shooting phases to clear out assaulting units. Basically, the other guy charges into you, wipes out a unit, then you shoot him. There isn't a good assault counter unless you include a priest in a 50-man platoon, but even them you are wasting good shooting phases in HtH.

A long-range platform that can effectively strip HP off of heavy tanks is also kind of a problem. All the Russes are ok at best for this function, and the vanquisher is sadly just not very good at it. IG relies on melta to do this well, but chasing down long range armor with sort-range melta as IG is rough.

>>48033746
So I'm the guy who first mentioned wanting to have have options for various types of chaos armies. But I haven't posted since then.

I just through renegades into the list with old legions, warbands, and recent corrupted. I didn't even want something massive like the other anon was talking about.

At most I just meant if you were laying down options for taking restricted lists that opened up special rules and options. Ie. detachments. Then you could set one out for renegades too.

>>48033708
I'm beginning to think that you didn't actually read the PDF I posted. I kinda does a lot of what you're suggesting, but in a much more coherent form.

>There's no reason not to have a shitload of options,

There isn't, but your entry has taken that too far and created a jumbled mess. You tried so hard to fix our problem (not enough options) that you just gave us a different one instead (too many options).

>if you think this sort of "streamlining" is good then we will just have to fundamentally disagree.

Never once did I say that. All I said was your entry was too incoherent and didn't know what it wanted to do with itself to be a good one.

>I want Dwarf Fortress 40k, you want Candy Crush 40k.

Lol not even in the slightest. Did you read the PDF?

>>48033997
>No mention of manticore
I am disappoint.

>>48033997
Rough riders literally do all of that.....

>>48033997
Also if you cannot kill tanks with guard......that is what punisher pask is for.

>>48034058

rough riders are overpriced, weak, fragile. They are supposed to do all of that, and they are bad at it.

>>48033973
Imperial Cults and militia are amazing for it, levy squads are fucking 2 points per model, and get crazy buffs depending on which legacies you choose. Cult horde makes the whole lot of them fearless(Through Zealot), and makes them a whole lot better in melee. You can then either make them more survivable with Abhuman Helots(+1 toughness), or Feral Warriors(+2 Ws). Then you can give them flintlock pistols and knives for 2A.

They're still only useful as allies. Imperial Cults and Militia aren't even remotely close to being a good army, despite having the best tarpit in the entire game. They fall squarely alongside Orks in tier 5. Unless you run Abhuman Helots + Survivors of the Dark Age, at which point they magically become tier 4.

Still the best option EVER for bubble-wrap on the cheap. 250 points nets you 101 models, before buying the optional providences. You can cover the entirety of your deployment zone with that level of nonsense.

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>>48031384
What did you *WHEEZE* just *GASP* say about me you little *cough* loyalist faggot.

>>48034079

He doesn't chew down HP fast enough. It takes even the AT russes an entire game to drop an enemy armor unit, which is too long for a points investment like that. I know I'm in the minority opinion on this, so agree to disagree. I don't think an anti-tank tank should spend 6 turns killing one tank.

>>48033490

Well that isn't the way I want my Kan Wall to work.

I'd rather them take the AV on all facings up to 12 and get rid of the Cowardly Grots rule among other things.

>>48034033
The PDF looks fine. I wasn't saying my examples should be the final print version of a codex, I was just listing possibilities. My point is to address

>You tried so hard to fix our problem (not enough options) that you just gave us a different one instead (too many options).

1) I'm not trying to fix anything so much as give an example of what would be cooler, and 2) what does "too many options" mean? Is it rooted in sound game design, or are you just spouting off arbitrary bullshit based on your ill-conceived opinions? You still haven't actually listed any reason why it's "too complex" and I suspect you're just saying that because these days it's hip to use buzzphrases like "this system really needs to be tighter and more coherent" and make everything minimalist as if 40k should be an apple computer.

Simpler is not always better, if you don't like lots of options then I wish you would try another hobby like coloring books and leave 40k alone.

>>48034116
>I'd rather them take the AV on all facings up to 12
The cost would have to go up significantly.

>>48034158

> The cost would have to go up significantly.

Doesn't have to.

This edition has shown me that much.

>>48034143
>I suspect you're just saying that because these days it's hip to use buzzphrases
Says the moron calling everyone "kukt" and "CoD kiddie"'s and referring to any game that doesn't adhere to his dipshit ideas as "Candy Crush 40k."

The only example offering you gave was an incomprehensible mess.

Have you seen the kind of dumbass questions that people have been asking in the FAQ's. Too much complexity is a very real possibility.

There's no reason to include options for Renegades that just turns CSM back into loyalist SM. There already a codex for that.

>>48034114
Manticore. In emperor's wrath

>>48034186
>just make everything a broken unplayable mess of never-ending power creep
Yeah, I'd rather not go that route.

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>>48034206
>several declarative statements

okay pal I believe you now. wew, what was I thinking.

I came up with what might be a fun way to the run Reclusiam Command Squad.

RCS - 480

White Scars Tactics

Command Squad - 265

Power Lances
Storm Shields
Company Champion
Chapter Banner
Bikes

Chaplain - 140

Glaive Of Vengeance
Bike

Razorback - 75
TLLC

The Razorback can shield wall for the Comm Squad and pop enemy armor. Attach a melee-focues Lib Conclave (jump packs or bikes, Force Axes, rolling on biomancy) for ~buffs~.

Do you think it would work tee gee?

>>48034220

>Yeah, I'd rather not go that route.

To each their own then.

I am a proponent of AV myself.

>>48033973
2 reasons. all those nurglings aren't good at fighting and you need an aux choice per each core choice

>>48034220

But Anonymous, we're already there!

Codex: Eldar 8th Edition soon, friends!

>>48033251
Sisters of Battle actually have a lot of stuff going for them. Their main strength is in cheap bodies holding Boltguns (no, seriously: Power Armor is usually a 10 point upgrade from Flak Armor. Boltguns are sometimes offered as a 1 point upgrade. These girls cost 12 points risk and come with an invulnerable save and Acts of Faith) and in cheap access to special weapons (2 per 5 instead of Space Marine 2 per 10). Immolators are also better than Razorbacks and Repressors are arguably the best IFV in the game with their AV13 and 8 fire points.

>>48034114
Vanquisher pask then. Outside of a S-D weapon it stands a 13% chance at exploding an av14.

>>48034207
With how good the Manticore looks at AV duty compared to a Leman Russ I would have one of these instead of buying a second Wyvern/Hydra. I wonder if I could convert what I have now into a Manticore with the missile bits+platform.

>>48034347
Am I the only one that thinks its kinda sad that I need Pask to make the Vanquisher decent because of the re-roll to hit?

>>48034274
Never go full retard.

>>48034273
The RCS has to be embarked in the Razorback, i though

>>48034114
>He doesn't chew down HP fast enough.

With 20 rending shots you can easily kill a land raider in one volley, shit you can even rend WKs to death! Its a very real possibility and the only thing the paskisher lacks is range, but who gives a shit! REND EVERYTHING TO DEATH.

>>48034225
Not him, but what the hell does that even mean?

>>48034340
squads of 20 with 2 priests can get a lotta rerolls

>>48034347

4 hits per game, 13% chance of doing its job per hit. Not worth it to me.

>>48034402
Nope. They just have to take it. No need to embark.

>>48034410
Yeah, but they can't get into close combat to use hymns without a taxi.

>>48034381
Wyverns are still good. Anti infantry I prefer the wyvern. As you can afford 2 for the cost.

Anti vehicle is what makes the manticore shine

>>48034404

29 shots with rending dakka punisher

BS4, so say 20 hits
3 6s
1d3 per result of 6, giving you:

1 STR 12
1 STR 13
1 STR 14

That's on average 1 glance on AV 14 per turn. No thanks.

>>48034330
> Codex: Craftworld Eldar 8th Edition
> D weapons are all free upgrades from S10 AP2 Template 3 Scythes
> Decurion allows 2 free WraithKnights
> Flawless Deep Strike
> Battle Focus allows Run, Shoot, & Charge
> Fire Prisms breaking their shields are all S10 ID, double-hits on hordes
> Eldar get an extra psychic phase & only Perils on triple-1s
> Across the board point drops
> Comes with clip-on pointy prosthetic ears, & a shovel to help opponents remove swathes of their armies from the table at a time.

>>48034404
20 shots at BS4 S5 with Rending and Preferred Enemy is an expecting 0.8 glances against AV14.

>>48034485
>>48034551
Pask does reroll armor pen, so it's a bit better than that.

>>48034561
It's almost 1.5 glances, then. Still nothing to write home about.

>>48034546
>arrogance over mon keigh: the eldar player is allowed one "cheat move" per game where they can completely disregard any rule once and if you protest you automatically lose

>>48034485
Not him, but he can reroll armour pen. You're still right though, he's shit against AV14
20 shots, 13 and a third hits, about four sixes with rerolls, averaging about one and a half glance per turn. Pask is overrated, and while he murders light vehicles, AV13 can survive, and he'll barely scratch AV14

>>48034595
Not to mention he'll likely get to shoot once and then get horribly murdered because he's within 24".

>>48034561

Ah, ok, I see. Refining the mathhammer, then:

Still 20 hits @ STR 5
Still 3 6s on first roll, rerolling the remaining 17
Get 3 more 6s for 6 total.

6 rends, rolling 6d3
2 @ STR 12
2 @ STR 13
2 @ STR 14

For a tank this expensive I've honestly still not impressed. A couple of meltaguns will do this for 30 points with a higher chance of outright blowing it up. I admit it's better than I thought, though.

>>48034595
Also, light vehicles are about the last thing you'll have problems with as Guard. And for killing Wraithknights and similar MC/GCs, you're better off using Rending, Twinlinked Conscripts.

>>48034401

Say what you want. I find it preferable towards my purposes.

>>48034626

Agreed chimeras are amazing at glancing down light vehicles, and there are infantry-served weapons that do this too if that's more your speed.

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>>48034546
> MFW this is all bullshit GW would actually do, if it meant selling more spess elves
Why must you torture us so Space 0din?

>>48034611
The only specialised use for him is killing high toughness, high armour units, and other things do that better for cheaper. That said, he's not-awful as a general purpose HQ for newbs, as he can deal with most things outside of AV14 and massed cheap medium armour fairly handily

>>48034485
>29 shots with rending dakka punisher
I thought Rending only applied to the Punisher Cannon? If it applied to everything including the Heavy Bolters then holy shit what have I been doing.

>>48034589
Str8 kekkin'

>>48034651
Schadenfreude.

2bh, I think someone needs to make some rebalanced Eldar codex that entirely removes D on everything but the WK, & raises its price by about 100 points.

>>48034714

No, I was wrong. It's just the gatling cannon.

>>48034714
It does only apply to the Punisher cannon.

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Post pictures of your Warlord.

Battle Brother Doctor Octavius, slayer of Space Marines who don't have AP 2 or an invulnerable save.

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>>48034732

>>48034732
Isn't that basically just ITC rules?

>>48034207

Can someone explain why they love this thing so much to me? I just don't see it, but I've been wrong before.

I mean yeah, an average of 2 STR 10 ord shots is nice against armor, but it's on a platform that scatters ( a lot). I also don't typically go for artillery or ord without either AP3 or no cover saves, unless it's insanely good at saturating wounds like the wyvern.

Why do people like the manticore so much?

>>48034732
>entirely removes D on everything but the WK
-1 on the D table and damage roll for the Hemlock and Wrath, and -2 to both for Wraithguard would be fair. It makes them equally effective against everything as intended, but doesn't actually make them good against anything.

450 point WK would be nice.

>>48034849
I think only Superheavies should ever get D anyway. Bring back the old Wraithguard guns

How do Space Marines fuck up WraithKnights?

>>48034989
Grav. Specifically Skyhammer.

>>48034989
> Lias Issodon to guarantee Infiltrate
> Raptors Tactics
> 3 Devastator squads with Grav-Cannons
> Infiltrate grav into grav-range of his WK turn 1
> WK can't kill anything because Shrouded on turn 1 for 2+ cover saves across the board.

>>48034989
9 Ironclad Dreadnoughts

>>48035011
>>48035028
Grav's are wounding on 3+ though. Is that an issue?

>>48035028
What if he puts everything he has into reserves. What do I do with Drop-pods then?

>>48035045
Grav Amp, reroll wounds.

>>48035067
Take a bunch of pods with sternguard or as fast attack so you can bring those in first.

>>48035067
meant to quote >>48035011

>>48035045
Its 40 shots with rerolls to wound.

>>48035067
Then outflank everything. Infiltrate let's you outflank instead, so just have a couple units on the board enjoying their Shrouded, and then outflank on the second turn.

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Hey /tg/ what do you think about my 5k list against space marines. Other player is my brother, not a WAAC. Neither of us are using super heavies.
>that one formation that let's you call WAAAAGH every turn. Whichever one.
HQ
>two bare bones meld
>big mek in mega armour
>Warboss in mega armour

Elites
>3 squads of 10 mega nobs, each in battle wagons.

Troups.
>234 boys, 4 nobs.

Fast attacks
>15 deff koptas, all with rockets.

Heavy support
>18 Killa kans with kustom-one-in-six-chance-i-die guns.

I'm aware that this list is poorly formated and lacking point costs. I am sincerely sorry of this offends your autism. But I'm more interested in opinions on the list itself, not how to make it better.

>>48033251
try running squads of 20 with priests in them and watch your opponents face when he realizes that your squads will never fucking die in close combat

>>48034732
>raise Wraithknights price by 100 points
>it's still cheaper and vastly superior to an Imperial Knight

That's how out of wack this game is.

Are Rhinos shit? Every time I use them, I find myself thinking "I wish I brought a drop pod instead".

I feel bad for asking this, but why should I consider bringing in a Rhino over a Drop Pod? I ask only because I want to learn.

You get to make ONE change to ANY phase in the next edition.

What is it?

>>48035133

The Riptide is a good example of how bad the game is right now. It's not even the most OP Tau or large model in the game right now, and the game has gotten so bad that Tau players think the Riptide is overpriced.

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>>48034798
the beginning stages of my emperor's children jump pack lord that I never got to paint because I accidentally melted him with chemicals RIP :' (

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>>48034798
Kaptin Black-maw rip-krusha
Abuser of the lucky stick, WIP.

>>48035146

Rhinos aren't shit, but Drop Pods are better. Chances are you're the type of player or army that does better with pods, so take those instead. Rhinos can do things pods can't. It can protect occupants, cover distance faster than the pod if you have to relocate, if it survives till the end of the game, it will get you places while pods leave you stranded, you can use it to flat out and block LoS to return fire after shooting at the enemy with another squad, you can use two of them to create a thin gap which allows you to have LoS to any single model you want thus allowing you to snipe enemy commanders or special weapons without having a character or actual sniper, it can tank shock enemies to move them or outright crush them and kill them.

>>48035183
How does tank shock work?

In my head I'm picturing my Rhino crashing into a squad of gaunts and they have to roll for wounds or something.

>>48035128
>Try running squads of 20 and watching your own face when you realize that the game will be over before they make it into close combat

>>48035212
There's a whole section on it in the rule book (you can get it from the OP post if you dont have one).

>>48035212
It just makes them take an Ld test and then they move out of the way. Ramming lets you damage vehicles, though.

>>48035229
Must have missed it when scrolling through it earlier, whoops.

>>48034842
Emperor's wrath. No cover and twin linked.

Also a large blast will still clip a heavy vehicle it's centered over on most scatters of 5 or less
And if you have los that's a roll of 8. So o better chances of hitting than one shot fire at bs4.

>>48034976
Wraithknight is a GC. That's the same class as super heavies.
And it's physically big enough to qualify. It's just massively undercost

>>48035183
You can also use the Kauyon Stormlance Battle Demi Company to abuse the shieldwalling abilities of rhinos even further. Disembark dudes such that you have LoS with your special weapon, fire special weapon (and bolters/nade if you want/have LoS) and have the Rhino use its Flat-out move to get all the Marines within 3" of the door. Embark Marines again, rinse and repeat.

>>48035212

If the enemy fails leadership or can't move out of the way due to being backed into a wall or friendly models, they just get removed from the board.

This lets you instantly kill large monsters by just nudging them with a 35 point rhino.

>>48035133
> Cheaper
Most knight versions start at under 390.

>>48035297
>or can't move out of the way due to being backed into a wall or friendly models
They just move farther, read the FAQ. Also, don't they break and run rather than get removed if they fail? I don't feel like digging out my rulebook.

>>48035344

Pretty sure you can still just kill them if you box them in with 2 of your units or vehicles and tank shock with a 3rd. I highly doubt GW will release an FAQ that allows them to go in base contact or through your models, and if they did, it's just another case of how shitty and terrible the new FAQs are.

>>48035344
Nope, removed from play. Try playing nidzilla against Space Marine demi-companies, its genuinely a whitewash, three rhinos can remove from play a three-monster unit of Carnifexes just by parking on either side of them then running them over

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>>48034798
My warlord is Captain Valentine, a venerable deredeo. Pic is his current WIP as I'm still basecoating him. Basecoat is taking an asinine amount of time because I made the mistake of wanting to paint him midnight blue, so I have to make a Mixture of Drakenhof Nightshade and Abaddon Black plus paint medium, then thin it down. Also basecoating via the Wash Method, so everything requires 7 layers of this special mix to achieve a proper midnight blue.

He's also only going to be sparingly highlighted, since I want to weather him, and highlights don't go well with weathering usually.

>>48035344
That FAQ is stupider than the one grenade per assault one. Sorry, but nobody is going to allow you to place your models 36" away just because you were stupid enough to get backed into impassible terrain or enemy models and then tank shocked

>>48035391
>>48035394
The FAQ says you move them as far as you have to in order to maintain coherency and keep them 1" away. The unit will teleport across the table if that's what it takes. Even immobile units move if they get tank shocked.

>>48035394
>three rhinos can remove from play a three-monster unit of Carnifexes just by parking on either side of them then running them over
That is a fucking hilarious mental image.

>>48035344
>>48035431

The FAQ literally said "tank shock isn't a way for you to destroy enemy models, only relocate them." But the fucking big rulebook has that entire part about removing models and crunching. Fucking nonsensical FAQs.

>>48035432

The FAQ is wrong. That's all there is to it. It's a first draft. You act like the FAQ is infallible and hasn't gone against rules that were completely fine and changed very obvious rules that people played perfectly correctly for decades for no logical reason.

>>48035431
And auto removing models with no rolls isn't stupid. Besides the tank shocker has to choose to make that tank shock.

If you don't want them to teleport. Don't tank shock.

>>48035436
Seriously, the heroic blow or whatever it is rolled a one for pen, and then 360 points of monster was just up and removed.

>>48035444
They're already contradicting themselves.
>how many d3 overwatch shots do template weapons get
1d3 per shot in the weapons profile

>how many d3 overwatch shots does a frag cannon get
1d3

>>48035469

Nope, you're wrong and retarded. That's like saying you can still disembark if the enemy surrounds all your exit ports with a squadron.

If they worked hard or you were stupid enough to cause the situation where you get crunched, you get crunched, AS PER THE RULEBOOK.

>>48035444
If they choose to stay in the way. It's not a way to force your opponent to remove models

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>>48035273

huh?

>>48035444
Post-FAQ, you still remove models that fail a Death or Glory attack, just not ones that get pushed out of coherency.

>>48035456
First draft only refers to the verbiage, not the rulings. Note that they still haven't unfucked DEldar, because the FAQ is the way those rules were always meant to interact.

If a weapon has double the strength of the target's toughness, any wound from it will be Instant Death and therefore you cannot roll a save, correct?

>>48035494

You can cause situations where they have no way to move out of the way. Impassible terrain is part of the game for a reason. They cannot go through or near enemy models for a reason. THESE ARE BASIC RULES OF THE GAME.

No FAQ should outright destroy and ignore basic rules of the game for zero reason. Sorry, but you don't get to teleport 3 miles away just because you didn't want to get crushed by the tank that cornered you. You can't explain or justify this whatsoever other than the asinine and amateurish FAQ written by an intern.

>>48035490
In that case I still have to force the disembark. Tank shock removes any rolls.

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>>48035500

oh wait, I see now. They released a new one with the same fucking name in the Cadian supplement. Because of course the same name.

>>48035509
Instant Death still allows saves.

>>48035509
You still get saves on Instant Death.

>>48035500
Warzone Damocles: Mont'ka is probably the one he is referring to.

>>48035509
You can't roll FNP. You can still roll any saves that apply.

>>48035500
That's around 8 years out of date by now.

>>48035505
>First draft only refers to the verbiage, not the rulings.

Hahahaha, you're so fucking wrong it hurts. They even admitted they got some rulings wrong and changed them. When someone pointed out how fucking retarded one of their FAQ rulings/errata was, they said "it's just a first draft please let us know about things like these so we can get it right".

If you're going to use the FAQ as an argument, at least get it right.

>>48035509
wut

no, ID doesn't take away armor, it just kills you outright if you take an unsaved wound. if a weapon is high enough strength to ID then it's probably AP but you can still try for cover/invuln

>>48035519

Tank shock is literally pointless if all it does is move models around. "But you get to move the enemy's models". So what? It's not like you can move them into a position to crush them based on your logic.

>>48035523
>>48035527
>>48035529
>>48035537

Ohhh, I see now, okay, brother explained it wrong, sorry.

So basically if the model still has 3 wounds but fails one save, he dies because an ID wound made it through?

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>>48035415
Im adding one of those to my HH NL army for anti-air. This is it so far, 5 more jetbikes, 3 rhinos and Kurze not built yet.
Really looking foreward to posing a Deredeo.

>>48035549
You got it, unless the model has Eternal Warrior.

>>48035533
But tank shock not auto killing is likely the intent of the rules. Don't expect that to survive.

>>48035549

Unless the model has eternal warrior, yes

>>48035533
>They even admitted they got some rulings wrong and changed them.
Which? The only one I can think of is the Dreadnought thing, which they never went back on; they made a separate errata to change it. Also, right at the beginning they said that they were just looking for feedback on clarity, not on how to fix their game.

>>48035553
Just a forewarning, Deredeo's are a BITCH to pose. The legs are easy, but the cannons require a level of finesse that most people don't have. Literally the only way it can even be done is if you assemble the Cannons and Magazines first, then halfway melt the ammo belt with a heat gun so you can warp it into the position you want. Even if you want your cannons straight, you MIGHT AS WELL do this because even if you don't, the belts are still a bitch to put on if the cannons are even slightly off.

>>48035545
Push off objectives. Out of cover. Block their path.

It was never suppose to be a the ultimate killing machine

>>48035545
You can still drive units off the edge of the board.

>>48035593

No, according to the FAQ they'll just teleport behind your tanks.

>>48035577
>Do the answers all make sense? Are they clear? Do they throw up any more potential issues?

What do you think "more potential issues" is, dumbass? Protip: it's not typos because then you'd be counting typos twice.

>>48035618
You do realise tank shock forces a fall back test that auto fails if they're already falling back.

>>48035593
"Why should I be punished for a tank shock for no reason just by being on the edge of the board?"

Replace edge of the board with the common tank shock traps and you'll see why this argument/logic/ruling is retarded.

>>48035553
>Really looking foreward to posing a Deredeo.
I hope you're okay with a scalpel and green stuff. The arms and missile launcher aren't poseable if you do it their way.

>>48035633
Why the fuck would you even waste your time trying to tank shock units that are falling back due to being under strength? They're already out of the game.

>>48035618
It means "does clarifying these rules interactions result in other rules interactions that need clarifying?", not "do you think your army needs a buff?"

Please, point out one single FAQ ruling that has been changed.

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>>48035577
Refer to the bingo chart at the top of the board... You'll notice that one of the tiles says "Drop pods with the doors glued shut".

Well, GW listed an FAQ that drop pods block line of sight by their model, and always count as impassable terrain for enemy models. So now because of it there's competitive lists that have upwards of 30+ drop pods, all with their doors in various states of glued shut in strategic positions, so that you can drop a WALL on the enemy deployment zone. The enemy can then never leave their own deployment zone.

>>48035436
>BROTHERS, WE HIT SOME CARNIFEXES!
>THEY REALLY SHOULD PUT A CARNIFEX CROSSING SIGN AROUND HERE.

>>48035651
You tank shock the unit, it fails, then you chase it off the board.

>>48035584
Yeah I was wondering about those ammo belts. Ive had a couple tough kits from FW, not super excited about pinning resin.

>>48035667
Until they destroy the AV12 open-topped pod. Basically, at tourney level, thats a laughably shit gimmick, as Meltas, D-weapons, even enough lasplas razorbacks will destroy them. And then your opponent has spent half their points on something you've destroyed turn 1, so who is the real loser? Thats the dumbest fucking thing i've heard all week

>>48035651
Units already falling back AUTOMATICALLY fail their morale check, and must then fall back an additional 2d6(3d6 for jumpbike). If said movement fails to take them off the final position of the rhino, they then take and auto-fail ANOTHER morale check.

>>48035667
Did they change that? No, they didn't. Cry about them getting the rules wrong all you want, but they're not going to change any of the FAQ rulings. They'll just tell you that you can houserule it if you want.

>>48035667
Some scumfuck did this at the last big Midwest tourney. A friend's Tyranid army lost to it, but did well in every other game.

>>48035292
Yes, that's why I specifically noted that wraithGUARD needed a different gun

>>48035719
You don't get multiple morale tests off a single vehicle, you'd need a separate tank shock to keep them falling back.

QUICK QUESTION! How the fuck do you get rid of lootas as spess mahreens?! FUCKERS HAVE LONG ASS RANGEEE! FUUUUUU

>>48035717
Which is why I say use either a Heat Gun or boiling water. Resin becomes pliable and bendy if you heat it up. You can use this to correct the ammo belts to any position. Heat gun would work better though, since the belts are pretty thick, they'll resist the boiling water.

My deredeo isn't pinned, since the entire model is connected by Full-Joints. You can just superglue the inside of the joint in whatever position, no pinning required, and it'll never come apart ever, unless you bathe it in purple power.

>>48035764
grab an artillery unit and delete them.

>>48035718
wut

wrecked vehicles become battlefield wreckage, they only leave the table if exploded. still not impossible but it's not guaranteed either

I like the Wraithguard who have shields and axes. Am I a faggot if I use them, or is that just D-flamers?

No transport, they'd be sticking around to screen for backfield dudes, basically. Also to look cool.

>>48035764
Flamers in drop pods, Also comes doubly handy if the ork player puts them in battlewagons, since "No Escape" Means you auto-kill d6 lootas per flamer. This is currently my primary method of countering ork-bro's use of Battlewagon lootas with Space 0din orks.

He usually brings 2 battlewagons with 15 lootas each. So if I'm expecting him to bring them, I take a chaplain command squad ina drop pod with flamers, alongside the usual shennanigans of my dreadnoughts. Valentine handles the other battlewagon, while Chaplain Mikelus handles his wagon.

You can also counter them with LAND RAIDERS. Lootas are incapable of doing anything more than chip paint off of them.

>>48035821
Hello Raptors-anon, how goes modeling the whole chapter?

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>>48035769
Yeah I had a bit of trouble with the belt on this Castigator. Those Deredeo belts are my concern, being so small makes it harder to get the right fit.

>>48035778
>AV12 Open Topped
>not being able to explode them easily with a tourney-level list
To cover four feet turn one, you need about eleven pods to come in turn one, so 22 pods total. thats 700 points. For six feet, you spend a thousand. What well-built army (even tyranids can just assault, they're right in front of you) cant blow up a pod or two, and then clean up the remaining half an army?

>>48035841
Did you see that dreadnought up there? Fucking awful by the looks of things.

>>48035841
I'm too busy with my job right now to do much painting, it's on hiatus while I get valentine fully painted, and I get a few test models for Catgirls in power armour.

>>48035850
>mfw FW doesn't even bother with ammo belts anymore

They just give you a fucking ramrod straight belt and you have to bend it into shape for the infantry weapons. I'm seriously considering just leaving the power cable off.

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>>48035869
>Catgirls in power armour

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>>48035898
> MFW dat gif
Maximum kek

>>48035865
Making a masterclass model takes time, and it'll look like ass at nearly every step of the process until the final touches. I actually expect this model to take about 80 hours of real work to complete for the level of detail i want.

>>48034798
Now that I see this I realize that I am boring and I need to make a custom Captain.

>>48035898
What power from Pyromancy is that?

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>>48035898

>>48035928
Probably molten beam.

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>>48035932

Saying that is power armor is the equivalent of this paintjob.

>>48035993
That can be redeemed if thinned.

>>48035993
Barring the sword, thats not too awful. By no means good, but not bad. The sword is horrendous though

>>48035993
It doesn't seem THIN YOUR PAINTS so much as shitty modeling, and poor brush control..

>>48032826
Ignores cover
Strength 6
Ap4
Blasts

>>48035516
>No FAQ should outright destroy and ignore basic rules of the game for zero reason
It didn't
You just didn't understand Tank Shock, go back and read the FAQ

>>48035993
I've got two of these guys sitting on my table and absolutely no idea what to do with them.

>>48035797
no those are fine.

>>48035856
>To cover four feet turn one, you need about eleven pods to come in turn one, so 22 pods total. thats 700 points. For six feet, you spend a thousand. What well-built army (even tyranids can just assault, they're right in front of you) cant blow up a pod or two, and then clean up the remaining half an army?
Also, some are going to scatter back and forth, failing to create the "wall" you need to actual make this investment worthwhile

>>48036196
locator beacons

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I bought a Heavy artillery carriage with earth shaker cannon from a friend who just never incorporated it into his army but he lost the instructions. I got it mostly figured out from pictures online but where does this piece go?

>>48036139
>You just didn't understand Tank Shock, go back and read the FAQ

No, you didn't. That's why you don't understand how tank shock's restrictions work within the frame of the game in regards to not being able to pass impassible terrain and enemy models.

If you tell a SMART player that models can't go through enemies or certain walls, and tank shock forces them to move (i.e. pass through) things or be destroyed, the conclusion is obvious. Except dumbasses like you apparently think that conclusion means teleporting across the board.

>>48035123
>But I'm more interested in opinions on the list itself, not how to make it better.
That's...a lot of boyz.
Whenever I see lists like these I always break out into a sweat because none of my armies are kitted to deal with hordes.

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Why does GW hate the Blood Angels?

No specialist weapon on Force Halberd.
No change to BA heroic intervention.
Lemartes still takes up an elites slot, unlike Arjac or Lukas.
No squadrons for tanks or dreads.
Still no decurion.

Playing BA is suffering.

What do you think about the medusa siege gun?

What about the Colossus Mortar Battery?

>>48034206
His example was perfectly comprehensible. All he did was combine multiple unit entries with repeating stat lines into a single heavily customisable unit. If you're intelligent enough to understand and navigate a codex you can make sense of it. Frankly there is even something of a precedent for it. The 5th edition Wolfguard entry had almost two pages of options allowing you to create a unit that was extremely versatile and customisable. You could build shooty or close combat wolf guard with the options for bikes and jump packs and terminator armour, all with individually selected wargear. It was awesome. That entry alone would have filled five entries in the SM codex.

>>48036302
>complaining about a faction that gets a fast vindicator with remove cover and 60 point FNP HQ's that boost WS of the entire unit by 1

oh boohoo, cry me a river

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Mekanikus confirmed?

Seriously though, I suddenly want to make an army of looted Skitarii/Mechanics stuff.

Yes. I know Orks are in a bad place and all but I can't help but want to start a conversation project anyways.

>>48036361
I'm waiting for an Ork to hook himself into a Warlord Titan.

>>48036274
You're still crying that the FAQ proved you wrong
Get off the internet, have a little fun, and come back when you're ready to admit you were wrong

Remember: you will never be right until you can learn to be wrong

>>48036417
Probably a Loota Mek.

>>48036417
I'm still waiting for what someone posted in a previous thread to happen
>Yarrick is resting in his room
>Ghazzy bursts in and throws some clothes at him
"SUIT UP YA GIT, WE'Z DRIFT KUMPADABUL"

>>48031981
>>comes here and talks of his dread every single day.
>>still hasn't even painted it
jesus raptorfag get your shit together.

>>48035545
Squish a spread out unit together with a tank shock and then purge them with template weapons for the Emperor. It can also be used to push units into charge distance of another unit in the assault phase. Tank shocking is all about forcing the enemy's units into dispositions and locations to maximize your other unit's attacks.

>>48035545
>>48036602
Also, you can tank shock into a unit with a Land Raider Redeemer so you can shoot it with both Flamestorm Cannons.

>>48036717
If you're tank shocking with a rhino with a flamer marine inside it works as well.

God damnit.
I don't want all this Necron shit, all I want is BaC and six Razorbacks.
My friend decided to go with skitarii instead of taking the deal of a price for my Necron lot and now I am stuck with them.

/blog

>>48037016
How much for what, and where are you based?

>>48037016
and here i thought space Egyptian robots only felt smug

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Quick, post yfw you're an extremely spicy all-seeing oracle of the best chaos god

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>>48037330
Same desu
New thread when?

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>>48037527
Not even page 10 or 400+ posts, chill.

>>48036345
>Already expensive vehicle that has to buy a unique Legacy of Glory for a fuckton of points to make it actually serve a purpose in the current game

>A 2W T4 HQ with a 3+ and no invuln that buffs a single unit in Assault with +1 WS/I and gives them FnP

Damn, these fucking BA are too OP!
They have two fairly decent things in their whole army.

BA may be better than some armies but they're still the top of the bottom tier.
They're like Tau where they're very good in causal games to the point of seeming OP compared to codexes on the same tier as them, but when it comes to competitive tourney meta they have very little options to get much better than they were in casual games and thus get raped by literally everyone.

You ever try to take out a 6 Flyrant Circus when your only anti air are Stormravens and fucking Flakk Missiles?
It doesn't work well.

BA are the fucking red haired stepchild of the SM Chapters to GW.

Anyone still playing Tyrants Legion? Does it perform or is it basically play to lose even in fluff matches?