Battletech General: Why Not Mackies? Edition

>>48011331
IT'S THE RETURN OF THE MACK

>>48011413
JUST MACK MY SHIT UP

>>48011413
WOOP WOOP

DAT'S DE SOUND OF DE MACK

WOOP WOOP

HE IS ON DE ATTACK

A damn shame that the Mackie essentially died out because reasons. Any AU worth its salt should include the Mackie never going away.

>>48011413
>>48011483
>>48011485
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LCYlrfH_5o

Sorry if this is a common question, but my friends and I are getting into Battletech, and while we read into the tanks, we found out that not all of them have heat sinks. It was mostly tanks that had autocannons and no energy weapons. Do tanks not gain heat from non-energy weapons?

>>48012139
I believe this is correct. Combat Vehicles only need enough heat sinks to cover the heat cost of any energy-based weapons they have.

>>48012139

Sort of. Vehicles don't track heat *at all* (they cannot gain or lose heat). You must mount a sufficient number of heat sinks to completely dissipate the heat generated by the tank's energy weapon complement. Heat generated by non-energy weapons is completely ignored.

I do not recall offhand for sure if a plasma rifle counts as an energy weapon for these purposes, but I'm like 99% sure it does.

>>48012139
>Do tanks not gain heat from non-energy weapons?
They do not. It's one of their few advantages over mechs. It's what let's stuff like missile carriers work

>>48012234
>but I'm like 99% sure it does.
Yeah, it's an energy weapon.

>>48012256
>>48012234
>>48012200

Thanks, guys. I'll tell my group when they show up.

Very random and obscure vehicle question, but for a vee with JJs, do you have to account for jump heat as well as weapon heat?
Also, you can mount regular JJs on a vee, but what about IJJs?

>>48012736
>do you have to account for jump heat as well as weapon heat?
No, you don't have to track it, since HS are not required.

>Also, you can mount regular JJs on a vee, but what about IJJs?
Vehicular jump jets are a specific type of standard Jump Jet. So... no. I shudder to think the motive table crit rolls with IJJ. They're abusive as is with regular ones.

Taurian company faggot from last thread here. I'm interested in Taurian hovertanks from late Civil War-early Jihad era that *aren't* the Plainsman (non-hover scout tanks are good too). I just don't know my combat vehicles, or I'd make use of the MUL.

Any knowledgeable anons able to give some recommendations?

>>48013766
The fulcrum springs immediately to mind

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>>48011331
So hey. Does anyone actually have Record Sheets: Vehicle Annex Industrials/Exos etc.? I've been making a model for the Grommet for a 3039 campaign and I can't find the damned sheets anywhere. They aren't in the OP links either.

>>48014443
No, but you can if you have like three bucks and a DTRPG account:

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/138176/BattleTech-Record-Sheets-Vehicle-Annex-IndustrialMechs--Exoskeletons?term=Record+Sheets%3A+Vehicle+Annex&cPath=4328_4541

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>>48014545
Fuck it, I can wait two days. Just have no intention of ever using battlecorps again after the hell that was even trying to find it.

>>48014571
Does that fucking Mackie have LRMs on it?
Absolutely haram

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>>48014719
Dude, that's the heat baffles on the upper arm. You want haram, try the one the Brits based on the original art.

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>>48014777
Or Shimmy's missile artillery version.

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>>48014798
I like Xarbala's myself, but I'm making my own refit package now that I fixed the Dremel again

>>48014571
That Mackie looks weirdly like the PP mechs. Same artist?

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>>48014819
Alex blended the old MFUK/sourcebook art and the modern design pretty well, but a Mackie with a Lower Arm actuator on the left side isn't a Mackie as far as I'm concerned.

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>>48014835
Yeah, Chris Lewis strikes again. He's gotten better, but that's like saying getting hit with a board hurts less after the sixth or seventh time.

This is one of my own little side versions of the Mackie, although I probably did something stupid like leave the actuators in again.

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>>48014871
This is the sketches I was working on earlier for the non Retro-tech Mack. Gonna do some more refining on them today.

Why a Citytech Orion arm, you ask? I got one in a parts lot for 40k and fuck it, it looks pretty close to a Mackie autocannon.

>>48013766

They have a line for the J. Edgar as well, it's pretty good. Maultier production later on but it's more of an APC. The MUL has them with the Gabriel, Saladin, Condor, Pegasus, Maxim, Blizzard, Harasser, and Regulator but that last is contingent on the Trinity Alliance.

Also I'd take the "all Heavies, all the time" line with a grain of salt. Having a line for a certain design doesn't mean it's being pumped out in huge numbers, or that they're deployed and surviving on a wide scale. Like, the Dracs have two Atlas factories and between them make five a year or so, but the Lyans have one Atlas factory and build more per year.

Lighter machines are always more common by the fluff for everyone. FM: P says that they have a lot of Mediums, followed by Lights and then Heavies which seems a fairly standard distribution for the era.

But, AU and if Lights and Mediums bore the shit out of you play what you want I guess. Just a thing to factor in.

>>48014571

The fact they don't have a phone number linked to that service- or postal address, from what I can tell- kinda says it all. I'm still waiting on stuff I ordered in 2014 and have no recourse because I used a debit card rather than a credit card to order so the money was taken straight away.

But yeah, Worktroll, I'll e-mail Randall again. Maybe this time someone can go down to the god damn warehouse and get me a copy of books that have been sitting on the shelf of my local game store for over two years.

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>>48014719
Is this more, or less haram?

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>>48014777
You complainin' about the Biggest Mack of them all?

>>48015137
>>48015137
Yes, because it objectively looks like shit instead of a buttplug with guns.

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>>48015137
Oh my god that is adorably retarded

>>48014545
>>48014443
You can be a bro and upload it for us or you can see the stats on MegaMek

Are re-engineered lasers any good? We have a guy at the LGS who swears by them but I haven't really noticed anything highspeed about them in our games.

>>48015494
They were utter shite, but were improved via recent errata to moderate levels of usefulness. Definitely not pro-tier.

If your LGS guy thought they were amazing pre-errata I would assume he was kicked in the head by a mule when a child.

>>48015576
>If your LGS guy thought they were amazing pre-errata I would assume he was kicked in the head by a mule when a child.
Or Alex Knight

>>48015576
>If your LGS guy thought they were amazing pre-errata I would assume he was kicked in the head by a mule when a child.
Or Alex Knight

>>48015669
>If your LGS guy thought they were amazing pre-errata I would assume he was kicked in the head by a mule when a child.
>Or Alex Knight

You repeat yourself, sir.

>>48015688
Nah, Alex was born that way, no mule required

>>48011542
>Any AU worth its salt should include the Mackie never going away.
Or at the very least coming back in large quantities

>>48015669
>>48015681
Literally who?

>>48015833

ohgodherewego.hpg

>>48015833
one of the most important guys in modern Battletech history, truly a piece of something

>>48015833
All you need to know in regards of this conversation is he's the guy who made RE lasers. More significantly, after everybody saw them and was underwhelmed, but figured it was another intentionally crappy piece of BT equipment because the devs love that shit, he started posting on the OF about they were totally awesome and everybody was wrong.

Have we heard any comment from after the errata? I wonder if he thinks somebody went and ruined his masterpiece.

>>48016224
>Have we heard any comment from after the errata? I wonder if he thinks somebody went and ruined his masterpiece.
Wait the RE laser got erratad?

>>48016247
Yeah, they get a -1 to hit now, IIRC.
Which improves them about to the point as >>48015576 mentions.

>>48016247

Less heat, a -1 to-hit Pulse modifier, and new BV for all of them.

>>48015833

He's one of the Battletech writers (was freelance, now isn't, I think) who had a lot to do with the development of re-lasers. He defended them to the death on the OF, to the point where even other Beemers were getting mad at his refutations that basically boiled down to "I on't care what math says, they're amazing can you can't tell me my own factual opinion." Beemers who publically disagreed with him were banned (both temporarily and permanently), as were users who brought math into the conversation. Posts and threads he didn't like were removed, showing only the post of people who supported him.

Essentially, the OF is a giant echo chamber for the Beemers (usually the yellow, red, and purple Beemers) and their friends, and disagreement is not allowed. Alex Knight is one of the biggest offenders of "turning the OF into an echo chamber", and IIRC his shitposting directly led to several of the best demo agents getting fed up with the entire company and leaving entirely, leaving them so short-handed at Gencon 2014 that they had to actually cancel events. He's not EVERYTHING that's wrong with the OF single-handedly, but he encapsulates the things that are wrong in one shitcovered, mule-kicked package.

>>48016247
Yep. They're now merely suboptimal and not utter trash.
Like, UAC/10-tier

>>48016298
Huh. What book are this strange man's lasers in? Sarna does not have an entry for them.

>>48016299
I've never seen any post that says he was responsible for making them, so I don't know where that comes from. And almost all the writers are freelance, so him being so doesn't mean anything because CGL doesn't have any pure staff writers (their devs do writing, but of course that on top of their main jobs). But yeah, he loves the lasers. I can't figure why, honestly. Bad math skills?

>>48016323

They're listed here:

sarna.net/wiki/Category:Energy_Weapons

If something's missing, it might be because the errata is falling under Sarna's delay clause (they can't put up wiki pages showing brand new stuff because they don't want to hurt sales; 90 day moratorium at a minimum, IIRC), and I don't know how errata effects the moratorium. Plus, after that expires, somebody has to actually go write about it *and* not have somebody edit the page after them.

>>48014932
>They have a line for the J. Edgar as well, it's pretty good. Maultier production later on but it's more of an APC. The MUL has them with the Gabriel, Saladin, Condor, Pegasus, Maxim, Blizzard, Harasser, and Regulator but that last is contingent on the Trinity Alliance.
Which of these are actually solid designs? I seriously know less than nothing about this area of BattleTech and am not sure I'm a good judge of which are good and which are VROOMVROOM.

>Also I'd take the "all Heavies, all the time" line with a grain of salt. Having a line for a certain design doesn't mean it's being pumped out in huge numbers, or that they're deployed and surviving on a wide scale. Like, the Dracs have two Atlas factories and between them make five a year or so, but the Lyans have one Atlas factory and build more per year.
>Lighter machines are always more common by the fluff for everyone. FM: P says that they have a lot of Mediums, followed by Lights and then Heavies which seems a fairly standard distribution for the era.
Ok, I think I see what you're saying. What about something like this:

Scout:
Toro
Locust
Locust
Phoenix Hawk

Striker:
Talos
Toro
Marshall
Griffin

Line/Command:
Warhammer
Centurion
Mackie
Archer-6W

Tank Lance
1st Maniple
2x LRM Carrier
2nd Maniple
2x Rommel
3rd Maniple
2x hovertank TBD

It seems to fit with acceptable and expected Periphery forces (4 Lights, 5 Meds, 2 Heavies, 1 Assault), it still is pretty Taurian (given faction specific designs and the presence of one of the beloved trinity they have), and it also seems appropriately Periphery (Archer-6W, one of the Locusts is a RL variant).

>But, AU and if Lights and Mediums bore the shit out of you play what you want I guess. Just a thing to factor in.
Nah, the AU I'm working on is still pretty reasonable. It has only minor allowances for stuff I personally like (see: Toro/Talos and the like). Combat doctrine remains basically as it is in canon.

>>48016372
Huh, expected something wackier.

>>48014932
>Having a line for a certain design doesn't mean it's being pumped out in huge numbers,
In principal, I agree, but TRO 3050 does explicitly call out the lines in question as producing a lot of mechs
Honestly, it's just that production not really corresponding with force composition and such is one of my pet annoyances with the canon universe and I'm just trying to get this guy to correct it for his AU, since he can do that
>>48016378

Hey, got a question for the older players here; I'm always hearing reference to how war of 39 and mercs supplemental 2 really retconned the tech development timeframe for a lot of stuff, but that merc supp 2 was also the first thing to give concrete reintro dates for all the star league tech stuff
So I'm wondering how you guys figured tech advancement stuff went before the canon numbers came out

>>48016518
>In principal, I agree, but TRO 3050 does explicitly call out the lines in question as producing a lot of mechs

>using debunked, old, retconned sources

Medron, please.

>>48016618
The Blood of Kerensky novels outright stated that DHS, ER Lasers, Gauss Rifles and LB cannons were voodoo magic as far as the IS was concerned as of 3050. The Dragoons handed out a lot of toys that same year, so... 3050 was the accepted intro date for a fair chunk of time for most gear.

>>48016637
hey deadborder, surprised it took you this long to show up

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>>48016378
>Which of these are actually solid designs?
Saladin: Pure, classical assault gun - an AC/20 on a hover skirt. Hold it in reserve, then drive it at breakneck speed directly at something that needs removing. Remove it. Nicknamed the "Salad Shooter".

Gabriel:
It's a 13/20 ML. The Taurians also use a version with a pair of RLs-10 (or prototype RLs in the Succession Wars), which is cheap but one-shot. Only useful for skirmishing and spitting, but damned funny.

Harasser/Pegasus:
Both are basically a pair of turreted SRMs-6 on a fast chassis. The Pegasus can carry a squad of infantry and has a backup gun, while the Harasser is marginally faster and much cheaper. Neither can get a +4 TMM without flanking, however, which leaves them vulnerable to skids. Pegasus gets nasty 3050s upgrade as a scout.

J Edgar Hover:
ML and four SRM tubes/quad MGs (depending on variant). Best used for finding and eliminating infantry in advance of an armored column, but they can hold their own in a fight, and they're cheap.

Condor:
Basic tonk. Lasers, MG, AC/5. It's nothing spectacular but it's there.

Maxim:
Close fire-support heavy infantry vehicle. It's basically a heavy attack helo that never leaves the ground. It's designed to close rapidly, knock out any infantry or vees in the area with infernos and MGs, drop off three platoons of infantry, and then retreat to provide covering fire with LRMs. Variants basically drop the LRMs or SRMs for more of the other. It's great in an infantry-focused game but horribly vulnerable otherwise. It gets new legs when BA come out.

Blizzard:
Another heavy transport; sacrifices almost all fire capacity and armor for six squads of BA. Can win a game or be completely worthless.

Regulator:
Gauss rifle onna stick. A 10/14 stick.

>>48016518

>does explicitly call out the lines in question as producing a lot of mechs

A lot for the Periphery. Despite what Inner Sphere in Flames says, the Taurian factories are not all Hesperus II-level output. Context is a thing, anon.

Canon-wise the factions shit out and lose a ton of Lights every year because they're so cheap to make but shit at fighting. Other 'Mechs are produced in lower numbers but either don't get gibbed as often (Mediums and Heavies) or aren't risked in combat until absolutely necessary (Assaults).

Now, you can change whatever paradigms you like for an AU but all that stuff has been long-standing and makes plenty of sense as is.

>>48016618

As said above, in the second Blood of Kerensky novel the House lords gathered on Outreach for a conference on the Clans and training to fight them. The Dragoons bootstrapped the IS with production data and technical assistance to build LosTech.

There's a scene where Clovis Holstein is explaining how Kai's newly re-customised Yen-Lo-Wang works where he uses small words to describe how XL Engines, TSM, Pulse Lasers, and Gauss Rifles work to Hanse Davion.

Which is fine at the time since the novels were the canon back then, but now you've got Hanse rolling that shit out across the FedCom in large numbers for the War of 3039, and he was probably in the labs every so often visiting Banzai as he rediscovered that tech like 20 years before the BoK novels were happening.

>>48017171
>Which is fine at the time since the novels were the canon back then, but now you've got Hanse rolling that shit out across the FedCom in large numbers for the War of 3039, and he was probably in the labs every so often visiting Banzai as he rediscovered that tech like 20 years before the BoK novels were happening.

Funny thing is, the IS not knowing how all of that worked is still technically "canon" and correct. Novels (unbiased, omniscient) always overrule sourcebooks (in-character, limited in viewpoint), and are the highest form of canon in the BT universe. They'd need to write new novels describing what happened instead to actually be able to retcon the BoK tech issues.

Assuming CGL actually plays by their own established rules, of course.

>>48016518
>>48016637
>>48017171
3039, the most recent official source for the unseen heavies that says anything at all about production (Combat Manual mercs talks about the locust, shad and whammy, but not production of such) calls the thunderbolt "the backbone of the taurian military" and specifically refers to the taurians as having two factories for it, which is equivocal. as for the warhammer, the taurians have "two small factories", but it's also noted that everyone is increasing production of warhammers continuously. not much is said about the archer, but it's common as dirt everywere and exactly how many the taurians are producing isn't gonna make a dent in that either way. as for the Marauder, it's said to be produced "prodigiously" across the inner sphere AND periphery, where the taurians are the only ones producing it as of 3039, so it would be reasonable to say that it's a common heavy there
also, oddly, no taurian factories are listed for the locust , but the factories in the MoC and OA are, suggesting that they produce the lion's share of periphery locusts, and NO periphery power is listed as a producer for the stinger or wasp, again suggesting that periphery production of those is rather less than in the IS. so likely the locust is the most common periphery bug, while the stinger is for the inner sphere

anyways, this is a pointless, circular argument, because giving hard numbers is always a terrible idea and none of you lot will ever agree with each other, because y'all like arguing too much

>>48017255

OOC sourcebook stuff (like the dates for tech recovery and how much of it was around) is the only thing that beats novels. Plus we have MUL intro dates for designs that have LosTech on them and pre-date the 3050s. Those are canon too.

So we're stuck with it. It's retarded and screws even further with the Clan Invasion plotline since Phelan studied the War of 3039 in detail at the Nagelring but was befuddled by the idea of XL Engines and DHS that were as old as he was and which saw extensive field use in the War of 3039. And you've got things like the Devastator being in production from 3044 on but Victor pilots a 4th Succession War relic and later comments to Galen Cox on how fucking awesome his field upgraded version of the Crusader is compared to the piece of shit SW version he was using until like a week ago.

What they should have done is say that the novels were holovid scripts (they did something similar with the Warrior trilogy, though those novels are canon etc there's a series in-universe detailing similar stuff and the Summerset Strikers thing) with an updated, OOC-correct timeline on when various things happened and what bits of the novels are still basically factually true, like the Clovis scene being there for viewers/readers in character who didn't know about LosTech but the battle with Phelan and Vlad going down as written minus him being OMG Double Heat Sinks, what the literal fuck?

That would be a clusterfuck of epic proportions in and of itself and then you'd have people starting clarification threads every five seconds. But they bought it on themselves by tinkering with the plotline in the first place, so I give no fucks about that.

>>48016727

>Gauss Rifles

How did they build the Devastator then?

>>48017538

TR 3039 has an in-character publication date of 3073.

It also omits several major factories for the Unseen that are mentioned elsewhere. The Marauder is built at GM's Kathil HQ and at Quentin, FFS, that's all over old material.

Your arguments rely on ignoring what the sources say for the most part and twisting what remains to fit what you want.

>>48017693
With AC/10s, as the DVS-1D. Or if you mean going by the original 3058 fluff, where there is no DVS-1D, then I'll point you to FASA's amazing track record with fluff accuracy.

>>48017803

MUL and TR 3058U have the GR version going into full production and wide-spread deployment in 3048.

Unless you were being facetious, IDK.

>>48017742
>It also omits several major factories for the Unseen that are mentioned elsewhere. The Marauder is built at GM's Kathil HQ and at Quentin, FFS, that's all over old material.
Yes, I agree, but I was making a guessed assumption that not mentioned= less important, not non-existant. I just didn't mention those ones cause periphery factories were what yall were arguing over. I don't have a dog in this fight, I main dracs and once upon a time smoke jaguars. I just had my copy of 3039 open and decided to try and settle your damn argument so you all can stop shitting up the thread with this pointless OF-tier back and forth
Fucks sakes

>>48017932
Are you retarded? Genuinely? The original fluff in 1990 for the Clan Invasion had Gauss Rifles and other things as a completely new technology that the Dragoons handed out like candy to fight the Clan threat. Five years later, the original fluff for the Devastator said that the NAIS made a prototype of it in 3033, presumably without GRs. Then in 2005, War of 3039 was released, which fucked up the tech proliferation, and 3058U ran with it in 2006. Am I moving too fast this time?

>>48017978
>I main dracs
Well now that makes more sense. Your used to fielding fucktons of the same design and having a few giant factories so you assume that every other faction would too

>>48018010
3058 original has the regular GR devastator in production for "ten years" as of 3058, buddy. FASA just plain couldn't keep their shit straight

>>48017978

>Yes, I agree, but I was making a guessed assumption that not mentioned= less important, not non-existant.

So your argument is that the primary factory of the people who invented the design is less important or produces less than a Taurian factory?

Not to mention that, logically, if the Periphery factory was bigger and better that would either be said outright or someone would capture it/blow it up for that very reason?

>>48018089
I already pointed that out here:
>>48017803
>I'll point you to FASA's amazing track record with fluff accuracy.

>>48018157
Oops, missed that

>>48018130
>So your argument is that the primary factory of the people who invented the design is less important or produces less than a Taurian factory?
I was only talking about bugs in the first place, and about the periphery states in relation to one another. Jesus, why are you so fucking worked up about this shit?

>>48017538
>>48017978
>>48018268
stop feeding the troll

>>48018268
>Jesus, why are you so fucking worked up about this shit?

BECAUSE YOUR WRONG

Fucks sakes boys, let's get back to battletech.
What's the most memorable AtB moment you've had in your current campaign? Alternately, what's the most BATTLETECH moment you've had in a recent game?

>>48018268

>I was only talking about bugs in the first place,

>>48017538

>3039, the most recent official source for the unseen heavies that says anything at all about production

Nigga wat.

We've all been wrong on the internet before. It's OK, your dick won't fall off or anything and now you know for next time.

Secret bonus answer: Because a lot of Taurian fans actually do insist that their factories for heavies out-produce the largest production sites in the Inner Sphere because reasons, and there's no way to know whether you're one of those or not because we're all anonymous here.

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>>48018380
Pretty much pic related to both. It was the rise of Atleast Itsnot, and set the tone for that entire mission. He never hit a thing. Only mission he ever had before the game stopped running he didn't get at least one kill.

>>48018380

Showed up late at a game and was given that Targe variant as punishment. Actually did crit out the leg ammo when the MASC failed.

Fortunately we were playing with the AoE ammo explosion rules so at least I got to take a Hunchback IIC with me.

>>48018472
I only mentioned the factory importance thing when I was talking about bugs, and I was only thinking about bugs when I said it. I can see how I fucked up, though. Looks like it's time to sleep
>Because a lot of Taurian fans actually do insist that their factories for heavies out-produce the largest production sites in the Inner Sphere because reasons,
I've never actually seen that claimed here AFAICT, it seems to be only medron pryde who does it, and only on the OF

>>48018509
>Showed up late at a game and was given that Targe variant as punishment
ouch.
I've used punishment mechs before, but only for showing up with a cheesy custon (you get the thing's BV in shad-2Ds and locust-1Ms)
>Fortunately we were playing with the AoE ammo explosion rules so at least I got to take a Hunchback IIC with me.
seems like a good trade for a targe

>>48018380
I had the same crusader fall victim to ammo explosions three games in a row all, without firing a shot in any of them

>>48018581

>seems like a good trade for a targe

There are venereal diseases I'd rather have than a Targe.

At least you get to have some fun before getting to the bad bit then.

In the Dark Age, how much of a nations mech forces are composed of relatively new designs and how much of them are things left over from the 3080s, 70s and earlier that have been upgraded?

I figured in the case of the Capellans, a lot of their mech forces would be new designs given they had to rebuild their military extensively.

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>>48018380
>Alternately, what's the most BATTLETECH moment you've had in a recent game?

Recently? I ran a scenario for 15 players involving 5 separate, interlinked tables (each player runs their own trinary and bid against other players for the right to play their trinary in the mission; whole thing is tracked via Warchest), each of which affected at least one other table. Over all the tables was a low-altitude map for ASFs.

>pic related

So, as it happened, I ended up playing the PC role for Table 3: Power Generators, with a bid of 6 Mech and 1 ASF point against the OPFOR medium Mech company and two lances of heavy tanks. However, the OPFOR player's tanks were really good at AAA work (Fury tanks, IIRC, with Anti-air quirks in play), so I made one pass, blew up an Archer and strafed a lance of mediums inexplicably lined up along a street, and buggered off to high-altitude holding pattern before he could get his air-defense grid really set up.

It is the ASFs which take the center stage in this tale of tragicomedy.

>1/2

>>48018779
Hell, you get the clap all you have to do is take pills for a couple weeks and not fuck. I can handle that it's called marriage to a woman with mennorhea

>>48018380
What's the most memorable AtB moment you've had in your current campaign?
Getting a pursuit mission with eleven fucking Panthers, a pack of Salad Shooters, and some other shit against one lance of heavies.

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>>48018380
>Alternately, what's the most BATTLETECH moment you've had in a recent game?
Teaching a pair of newbies to play, one of them runs his Enforcer right up next to his opponent's hunchback. The Hunchback mauls the enforcer, but it stays standing. The enforcer then wiffs with everything but the Slas.

Pic related. That poor Hunchback.

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>>48018954
>2/2


Since all the tables were connected via low-altitude map, the players on Table 1: Diversionary Raid (who bid VERY low and were in serious trouble) requested assistance and took the (significant) Warchest/Honor hit for being aided from outside their bid. I winged my Visigoths over to their board where the OPFOR was sitting in a MechBrick and laying down Gauss fire like it was going out of style. I dropped ordnance on the formation, split-S'd, and lined up a strafe on a quartet of Schreks sitting in two adjacent hexes. Unfortunately, the OPFOR CO decided to shoot at one of my Visigoths, and landed some hits. My 3/3 pilot failed the control roll, nosed over, and crashed. Rolling out the crash location, he ended up plowing into...the OPFOR CO. Who promptly snake-eye'd the "save" to avoid getting hit by the ASF. A Velocity 6 ASF which rolls a 10 deals 600 damage in groups of 10. The first THREE groups all went to the CO's head.

BUT WAIT. The wreck ALSO displaces one hex after getting hit by the ASF. Which displaced off a level 4 hill, onto another OPFOR unit, which when it was struck by the accidental DFA, was displaced into a Marauder, which itself was displaced into an adjacent building. The building had a basement, and so when the MAD fell into it, it took a TAC which detonated the AC/5 ammo in the torso.

The ASF pilot ejected safely, and landed in a hex containing "friendly" (other Clan) units.

>>48018986

>The ASF pilot ejected safely, and landed in a hex containing "friendly" (other Clan) units.

"And that, sibbies, is why I was nominated for my Bloodname and what I am here to teach you today."

Snow Raven/10.

>>48018986
>>48018954
Mind if I use this, or something similar, for one of my own games? I've got a chunk of players I haven't been able to properly teach "Electronics are useful for more than TAG."

Are there any good maps/scenarios intended for a three-way Battletech game? I'm trying to get some friends into the game, and I figure they'd be most likely to try it if we could just have a crazy free-for-all battle. Is this a completely stupid idea?

>>48018954
>>48018986
I'm not sure if that's BATTLETECH, or the very first known instance of AEROTECH

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>>48019135

Oh, the Active Probe stuff interacting with mission objectives? Go for it - the more people who realize that you can play BattleTech in other ways besides "line up on two mapsheets and shoot at each other until one set of dudes is dead", the better-off we all are.

Just don't let your players start playing the game with the intent to achieve objectives rather than "shoot things" and then let them go to conventions. People will get upset - really upset - if other players actually play to achieve the objectives in a logical, organized manner.

>>48019067

Sorry mate, but Jade Falcon.

>I know, I know...worst Clan

Having a Falcon pilot pull a Snow Raven/10 maneuver is high praise, though.

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>>48019164

Did you not see the multiple displacements, accidental DFA, and falling into a basement causing an ammo explosion?

>>48019230
Well I've got my core group who I've beaten it into, but I have always struggled with proper "objectives" that don't feel forced. Possibly because I treat objectives as something organic. See that strongpoint? It's got C3 codes for the turrets in the area. Go get em champ. And so on.

>>48019230
Hey, for what it's worth, I'm also a Falconfag and I approve.

>>48019155

Three-ways are difficult because you pretty much always get 1 v 2 in effect.

You might be better off to do something like a game where you run a Lance against them and they have two 'Mechs each or the like rather than a three-way free-for-all.

>>48019155
I like scenerios where two players are on the same team but have different objectives, against one player with more stuff.
It's even better if the objectives kinda interfere with one another, but not quite.
A good example would be one of the fights from the old Coventry scenario pack, where there's mercs, who want to REMOVE CLAN as much as possible, and lyran regulars, who want to keep as many people (regulars AND mercs) alive and get them off a mapedge

>>48016307
UACs get fucked over by the scatter tables, no? The idea is solid enough, but what's the point when your second shot will miss most of the time.

>>48020990
Yeah, the second shot only hits on a roll of 8+ on 2d6.

>>48014798
>Arrow IV Mackie

Literally an IS Naga.

>>48020990
yes. hence "UAC/10-tier" meaning that they aren't very good, but can be alright sometimes

>>48021233
yeah, IF that second shot hits, well you trigger a "Don't Fall Down" roll, and that's always a potential help.

or you could get stupid lucky and land both hits on the head...

>>48021161

You mean O-bakemono?

Built and fielded by the faction that never fought the Wolves, most hates massed fire and has the least TAG? Yeah, let's get on that shit boys.

>>48020990

I kind of like playing them with separate to-hit rolls for each shot.

Not sure whether them jamming if either shot misses or if the second shot misses is a better way to handle things, or maybe if jamming when either roll is a 2 is a fair exchange for having a mostly better chance of hitting with both shots is fair.

Also they need to unjam like R-A/Cs because holy shit is that retarded.

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>>48018986
>>48018954
Saved because this might be relevant later.

>>48021253
>well you trigger a "Don't Fall Down" roll, and that's always a potential help.
you know, I've always thought that headcapping is overvalued vis a vis the ability to force a PSR

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Hey,
I recently bought this box, and I was curious how battletech players felt about it. From my perspective, I got a shit load of stuff for my dollar compared with other wargames.

I found the base scenarios somewhat lacking. I didn't like mirrored forces when I didn't have duplicate models. They know what I have in the box dammit.

The gamebook recommends balancing sides roughly by tonnage. Is this a reasonable call? I'm sorta getting my friends to play with me, and I don't wanna screw them by a mismatched game. I might be being paranoid. I really like it so far and want my friends to play it with me.

>>48021930
>The gamebook recommends balancing sides roughly by tonnage. Is this a reasonable call? I'm sorta getting my friends to play with me, and I don't wanna screw them by a mismatched game. I might be being paranoid
if you aren't bringing an awesome (super-efficient for tonnage), Banshee, cicada or assassin (all highly tonnage inefficient), you should be fine

>>48021830

You can do something to improve pilot skills and make falling less likely, in campaigns there's XP and outside that there's BV.

Short of giving your opponent weighted dice there's nothing you can do about head hits though.

>>48021930

Tonnage for balance works pretty well but only for 3025 and only using published designs. It will probably lead to your group selecting from the same pool of machines over time.

You can always proxy your minis too, just write what mini the 'Mech actually is at the top of the record sheet and make sure everyone who's playing knows what mini represents what 'Mech.

>>48020990
This is why I like direct blow rules, for UACs the MoS bonus is applied to the cluster roll and not the damage, and since generally double tapping is done on lower TNs, there tends to be better second shot accuracy.

>>48021959
this

>>48021930

download megamek, assemble the forces and run them against a bot - easy way of checking for gaps, and BV is the way to go once you start using level 2 stuff.

>>48024468
Did MegaMek ever get more user friendly? Last time I tried it out, it was a pain in the ass to figure out how to get it working.
I also wish there was a way to delay its rolls so you don't have to skim a massive log.

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>be inna army
>playing some bt with platoon bros
>first sergeant doing a walkthrough of the barracks
>sees us and asks what the hell we're playing
>squad leader eloquently explains bt
>top watches us for a while
>gets to see our SAW gunner perform a Highlander burial
>top wants to sit in on our next game and might even play
>says he calls the Highlander
>CO enters the room during our next game and rubs his temples as he watches our first sergeant try to bury every opponent
>now the CO wants to sit in on our next game

help

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>>48020990
>>48021233
>>48021253
Don't forget that even without the double-tap, UACs do get a range bracket increase. I can't count the number of times someone has thought they were "safe" from a UAC-20 or -10 and gotten snagged by that extra couple of hexes. Having the UAC-5 within a hex of LRMs can be.. well, it's not good. But it at least makes it something you can use for ranged support more effectively.

>>48021930
The value's spectacular, the scenarios improve in the boxed map sets (which also ease you into more rules). The ones in the box are largely there to let you know you can proxy and teach you basic skills.

>>48025066
Keep it up, and eventually someone far enough up the chain of command is going to want to know why we don't have glorious Highlander Burial technology right now, and pull strings in Congress to get funding for the High Mobility Battletechnology project. You are doing Blake's Work footslogger anon!

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>>48025066
>>48025344
Or you'll wind up getting invited into divisional wargames as OPFOR like I was (Navy brownshoe, not a grunt, but the principle's the same..). For some reason some of the officers like having enlisted around to help train the butterbars. Apparently JOs don't always try their hardest to whup the boss, and the upper ranks like the fact that wargamers come up with weird shit to do with existing forces.

>>48021930
Some quick tips:
• Mark your Target Movement Mods with dice. 6=0. Use different colored dice for run/walk/jump.
• Put page protectors on your record sheets and use dry-erase markers. Fine-tipped if possible. Write down the target 'Mech and the target numbers as you declare shots; it'll make the weapon phase SO much easier.

• Slide a paperclip (preferably bright and plastic-coated) onto the side and use it to track heat. If you want to get really fancy, use the clip to track actual heat and take notes down there with the marker as you generate heat in the turn.

• Get a fucking clipboard/3-ring binder for your record sheets. It helps so much to reduce clutter.

• You'll memorize the charts soon enough, but if you roll less than an 8 on the crit check don't even bother looking at it.

>>48024744
Yeah, MekHQ to manage your forces and set up what rules you are using. Use the links from the ATB pastebin in OP. Dylan's setup just has more lore friendly stuff in it. It has come a longgg way.

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>""""Republic""""
>""""of""""
>""""the""""
>""""Sphere""""

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Redone Cataphract

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and Raven

>>48026050
Dude, I don't know how to break it to you... But your meme? It's bad. It failed. It's as stillborn as the rest of us wish you were. Get on with your life, such as it is.

This message brought to you by the letters F and U.

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I'm addicted to light mechs. I love how they can sprint around a map and be something to worry about on the flanks and even behind so very early.

I love outnumbering the guy I'm playing against like, 2:1 or 5:3.

Unfortunately, as you might expect, I sometimes don't win as often as I'd hope. Anyone have some ideas for a 12-16k BV list, using civil war era mechs? Mostly IS, but I figure a few clan mechs might slip in and not be an issue.

Is there any way to add a custom RAT with non-canon designs on it (assuming said designs are also placed in the right folder) in mekHQ?

>>48025269
>Don't forget that even without the double-tap, UACs do get a range bracket increase. I can't count the number of times someone has thought they were "safe" from a UAC-20 or -10 and gotten snagged by that extra couple of hexes.

I've seen people get caught out by this as well.

>>48027576
They're pretty awesome. I've used my Arctic Cheetahs, Mist Lynxes, Fire Moths and Adders to Jag Hard at full speed more than a few times. The best part is even if you lose you die knowing you were Jagging Hard.

>>48027585
Yes, but it is painfully boring to do. Edit RAT, edit ratinfo.xml, regenerate official unit list, edit mechset. Just search the Megamek forums for more details. Also read the readme.txts in mekhq docs folder. against_the_bot.txt is a good start.

>>48028631
Doesn't that just mean you went full Ice Ferret instead?

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>>48028837
Ferrets do pack zell and slashing attacks, Jag lights go in at top speed and alpha from behind forever.

>>48028890

ah, the wolverine. one of my all time favourite 'mechs. Though these days I tend to run a Nova with erll, 3xmpl, ssrm6 and tc (a spiritual successor I guess).

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• How many Smoke Jaguar warriors does it take to screw in a light bulb?
123. Nobody touches the lightbulb, but they need that many to crew the bombardment ship to punish this insult against the warrior caste.

• What's the difference between a Smoke Jaguar and an axe murderer?
The axe murderer knows when to shut up.

• How can you find the Smoke Jaguar scientist in the room?
He's the one setting fire to his lab rats for falsifying his theory.

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>>48029283

>>48029283

how many Capellans does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

the brave lightbulb's sacrifice will be remembered. Now follow these nice Maskirovka gentlemen to the nearest reeducation camp, where you will learn how better to serve the Chancellor.

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>>48029323
>>48029283
A Jaguar, a Wolf, a Viper, and a Falcon walk into a bar.

The Jaguar screams "FIRST", jumps the bar, necks a bottle of everclear and slams his face into the bar until he passes out. When the paramedics get there, he claims to be the winner of the "Getting Drunk Olympics".
The Falcon orders a whiskey on the rocks.
The Viper roofies the whiskey.
The Wolf buys every bottle of Vodka in the house, declares it "The Founder's Drink" and says nobody else can have any.
The Falcon immediately buys all the gin and spends all night squabbling with the Wolf about how, really, they're the same drink and besides, the Founder wanted everyone to share. They go home and grudgefuck.
The Viper accidentally drinks the whiskey.

Meanwhile the Spirit is sitting at home in the dark, drinking wine straight from the box and praying the Viper is too drunk to beat her when he gets home.

>>48029961

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1205850/1/Two-Cows-Does-Battletech

>>48029283
The sad thing is those jokes really work for a good number of factions in BT.

Are there any factions that haven't done evil things?

>>48030239
Only by dint of having done basically nothing, like say Clan Coyote.

>>48030239
No. If there were, the others would have nuked them to death during the 1st SW, then gone to war over ownership of anything that managed to survive.

>>48030269
All Clans automatically count as evil. Because they're THE CLANS. It's why they were created IRL, after all.

>>48025596
> You'll memorize the charts soon enough, but if you roll less than an 8 on the crit check don't even bother looking at it.

Heh, ya know we figured that one out. And that box gives some fucking awesome cheat sheets.
Also, I'm somewhat less concerned about force evenness having played a few short games.
Getting a good position and thinking your moves out seems more important than carrying the right guns. (likely in comparason to things ive played.)

>>48025269
fucking saved.

>>48030239
>Are there any factions that haven't done evil things?

No, this is why everyone who supports a faction is bad. Just like in real life when being from a country makes you equivalent to the worst person from that country, so too does liking a faction make you morally equivalent to that faction, and since all the factions have engaged in some combination of mass murder, forcible mass rape of their citizens, genocide, and being caucasian, every faction (and by definition their fans) are terrible people whom the community would be better-off without.

>>48030269
>Clan Shittier Wolf

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>>48030674
>People from countries are not worth having around
Sounds like pinko talk to me

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>>48030674

>>48030674
Come on, /pol/. No one is Caucasian inn the BT future anyway. They're all ambiguously brown after 1000 years of race mixing.

>>48030480
SMOKE JAGUAR DID NOTHING WRONG

>>48031428
I blame the nigger sphere

>>48019155
>>48019516
I was recently in a 3 way game that went pretty well.
I think the key was we had 2 different campaign units and an opfor, the opfor coming in later. So both player units wanted to win, but also wanted to survive, started beating eachother up but quickly realized they'd be wiped out if they didn't switch to fighting the opfor.
Stayed very even. Each side needs to want to win an objective, but also needs to survive as an objective to prevent them going all in should they give up and want to take someone else with them.

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Why are there so many fucking Clan designs that cannot torso twist whatsoever?

>>48031764
Torso twisting leads to coupling and breeding, which is what free birth surat do. A true Clan warrior knows only battle! (Knowing sibkin is optional)

>>48031764
Torso twisting is dezgra, you surat

>>48031764
>jenner was best mech ever, beloved by kerensky. (not really)
>builds modular super robot
>can't torso twist
>lol hardmounted flamer

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>>48032190
pic related

>>48031880
>>48031892
Guys pls. That doesn't explain why they have designs that can twist, then.

As an aside, I haven't been on 4chan in a long while. When did making two posts inside an hour warrant this impossible capcha shit? Are those store fronts or just buildings? Who the fuck knows.

>>48032546
Man, you must've been gone for years. Captcha went to shit a long time ago.

>>48032546
Oh, and when presented with an unidentifiable captcha, realize that the captcha can't identify it either, and just go with the obvious shit. That wins 90% of the time.

>>48016372

Three extra tons, -1 to hit, and two extra critical slots for +1 damage, and armor penetration versus wacky, nonstandard armor types?

Was he high when he wrote this? A standard 2025 Large Laser is better than this.

>>48033009
Maybe he got his butt reamed one too many times by guys in non-tournament-legal games using those armor types and he wanted to get petty revenge.

>>48033009
They didn't have the -1 TH to start with. And were one heat higher. So that RELL was mathematically useful at very odd distributions.

>>48033038
The thing is, RELs aren't *that* much better than a standard laser battery. For a single Medium REL, you can take 2 MLs and a SL. So if your whole battery hits, you're doing 8 to its 6. With the same 7 Heat, previously. Now the REL has a slight edge on heat.

>>48033009

Damn it, I meant 3025.

>>48033080

I'm not current with BT, but having 1 extra damage, 1 extra heat, and all those juicy critical slots taken up doesn't seem like much of an improvement. ER Large Lasers are so superior stats wise I can't fathom why you'd bother with it.

But then, I'm so behind I'm not sure what you mean by "battery." Last I checked, 2 MLs did 5 damage each, and a SL does 3. So, assuming they all hit, that would be 13 damage, not 8.

>>48033177
Reflective Armor and hardened armor halve incoming damage of energy weapons, and all damage, respectively. So those 2 MLs and 1 SL will only do 8 damage. Whereas a RELL would do 9 to an ERLL's 4. RELLs do get the better deal in terms of tonnage and heat though.

>>48033240

Is Reflective and Hardened Armor so common nowadays that it would be worth using RELLs?

>>48033284
Kind of? The Dracs started using Hardened Armor a ton, so it might be useful there, but then, so is just using a company to obliterate your target. Otherwise, Reflective Armor is a killer on ASF, since a lot of them use a very energy heavy complement. Overall RELs are an okay, but not great, option. That they're limited to the Feddies as well means they have a hard time finding a good niche.

>>48033009
They're an extremely niche weapon. RELLs are pretty nasty in space because all reflec all the time, but on the ground they're of rather questionable utility in most situations. I've personally gotten some good use out of them, but only because for a while most of the other battletech players in my area developed a huge boner for hardened armor turrettech heavies, but that's pretty much the definition of an edge case

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>>48033368
Well, limited to the feddies on the ground. Everyone got in on the ReLaser ASF party.

>>48033284

Nope.

>>48033368

Not even when you're fighting Dracs. There just aren't enough units with Ferro-Lam, Hardened, or Reflec armour to make them worthwhile.

They're now *marginally* better than spamming standard lasers to the same tonnage against specialty armours and if there's no specialty armour around the lighter X-Pulse or Clan Pulse lasers are available at the same rules level in the era.

Also, inexplicably the Dracs and Capellans are adopting RE Lasers, because they are a weapon to surpass Metal Gear in the minds of people in charge of designing stuff now.

>>48033892

This. Space is the one area where they can be made to work, but that has to do with the way rules there work and how valuable Thresholding can be rather than the RE Lasers being actually good in and of themselves.

>>48033941
For a moment there I thought that was Ritz' hourly work spreadsheet.

I need a break from /u/ I think.

>>48033284
What >>48033368 said. It's basically a big plot point that the Dracs get a massive boner for Hardened. ReLasers make sense from a plot perspective for the Feddies to develop simply because of that, even if they're mediocre on the table.

Well, except for that one ReLL Spider... That thing is rather good. Too good to be a Drac mech, that's for sure.

>>48034300

I think the Dracs have the most design types with Hardened armour, but the baseline versions of them are horribly gimped because of lol Dark Age monomania with shit weapons like A/C-2s and A/C-5s. There are much rarer variants that aren't complete ass, but if you can't deal with the Rokurokubi without resorting to RE Lasers you're a failure at life.

Fluff-wise you're less likely to see specialty armour than RE Lasers since there just aren't that many of them and they aren't really wide-spread. Game-wise a lot of the specialty armour machines have such issues (go explain to me why the Rokurokubi is so dangerous it's in the same price range as the Marsden II (LB-X), Firestarter Omni C, or Manticore tank...) so the incentive to take an inferior weapon to deal with units that are pretty poorly optimised is very low.

It makes even less sense when you consider that one of the driving forces for RE Laser development from an IC perspective was Reflective armour, but the Feddies are huge fans of A/Cs and Gauss Rifles rather than laser spam.

It's just... there are a lot of times when I can't do anything but shake my head and go "WTF, CGL?" and they've been a lot more frequent lately.

>>48034617

To this day, I cannot understand which Drac mech designer thought "huh, you know what this heavily armored and reasonably speedy melee-based light 'mech really needs? A single Light A/C-5."

I can understand CGL wanting to avoid hyper-optimizing designs (i.e. MLs all day erry day), but it's another thing entirely to design something that's so high tech yet has such a mind-boggling arsenal.

>>48035293
Because WizKids gave it the AC.

>>48035320

Still doesn't explain what they did with designs they didn't have to gimp.

>>48035409
I dunno, "Because WizKids" is probably a good enough summation there too.

How much, roughly, is the per-ton rate for hauling cargo in battletech?

>>48036777
Probably depends on local laws and/or how generous your employer is. You running a game about IndustrialMech pilots?

>>48036811
No, I'm just a traveller player. I just rolled up a merc unit for an upcoming campaign, and I've got a Buccaneer for a DropShip, so I'm thinking about how much I can make hauling cargo on the side, since I've got plenty of space leftover after carrying the mechs

>>48036852
Fasanomics free trader game. How could it possibly fail?

Is the Hellstar 2 more or less broken than the normal Hellstar? It's no longer heat neutral with 4 ER PPCs, but has a Targeting Computer.

>>48036852
Off the top of my head the only rules for such are from the old Dropshuips and Jumpships book, but it never gave a simple tonnage rate, just a flat revenue per mission rate for individual ships, which could also be found in the original printing of TRO 3057, though it had an advanced table that added all sorts of variables and situations.

But IIRC these were based on the assumption that you were just using the DS to make money when not doing merc stuff, or when on a job but not in need of your dropper. Like if you're pulling garrison or cadre duty for six months, no sense in just having the DS sitting around doing nothing when it could be making money.

Modern rules don't have anything I'm aware of.

>>48036895

BV jumps by about a sixth. I'd say it's better than the normal one if you have a good gunner and can take advantage of the odd Aimed Shot opportunity to core something, but if you have a less crack shot the additional weight of fire on the normal one is probably more useful overall.

>>48036777
If I remember right, it's around 105 to 110 CB per ton for most ships. Steerage quarters at 5 tons per person is about right for passenger rates too.

>>48036986
I'm pretty sure the DropShips and JumpShips book had rates per mission type, so garrison and merchant shipping would pay differently.

>>48036895
Overheating by at least 10 points is pretty nasty though.

So a good portion of the time it either isn't using one ERPPC, or the tcomp is just offsetting the +1 accuracy penalty for 8+ heat, which bumps up to +2 at 13 heat, just a single point more than what a running alpha from 0 heat puts it at, and the thing is still almost 500 BV more than the standard model.

The Hellstar 3 does tcomp cheese better, even if it loses headcapping because ERLLs, though it can still head crit at least. Though it still isn't max tcomp cheese since no LPLs.

>>48036777
>>48036811
Doing a bit of math from DS&JS, you're looking at roughly 100 C-bills per ton, per jump.
So haulin' a Nightstar joe outback purchased ten jumps from Kathil would net you an even 95,000 C-bills. So basically, if you can find a cargo from outreach to wherever you're contracted to go that weighs 500 tons, you're essentially jumping for free

>>48037136
Surprised that table wasn't amongst the stuff that was shown to be comstar disinformation.

>>48038431

Your only other option is to figure each load by hand. How much does a crate weigh? How much can it hold? What's the profit margin per crate? Etc etc etc.

Flat rates may seem dumb but like fuck I'm going to sit down and work out how many assault rifles you can stuff into a crate and how many crates you can stuff into a DropShip on a single run and what the docking fees are and what tariffs apply and how much it costs to get hauled by JumpShip and what needs to be paid per person to keep everyone fed and watered and the man-hours for maintenance on the ship and blah blah blah fucking blah to cover every minutae of expenses. Flat rate works well enough.

>>48031054
Which is why you don't need to feel bad about slaughtering nigger sphere subhumans with orbital bombardments like you're trying to beat a video game high score.

>>48038431
why would it be?
it doesn't actually into FASAnomics, it's just old

a more realistic option would be to rip off traveller.GURPS Traveller (if you're interested in being even more detailed) wholesale, but that clearly isn't in CGL's interest
>how much it costs to get hauled by JumpShip and what needs to be paid per person to keep everyone fed and watered and the man-hours for maintenance on the ship and blah blah blah fucking blah to cover every minutae of expenses. Flat rate works well enough.
that's already part of the rules as of DS&JS and forever forwards from there, bud

Is "Clan conventional infantryman" the most boring military job in the setting that still ostensibly involves combat?

>>48040147
No, it's terminally exciting

>>48040365
Should have also specified "non-solahma infantry".

>>48040392

Depends on the Clan.

For the Jags or Coyotes, every day is a fun and exciting routine of exterminating and repressing civilians. For the Bears, every day is one where the grateful populace holds another ticker-tape parade in your honour.

Also the Vipers have Trueborn conventional infantry that they use instead of Elementals in second-line forces, and the Horses use conventional infantry as well for regular combat so it could be very exciting if you're in the right (or wrong) Clan.

>>48040430
Ah yeah, I forgot the Vipers had that whole "freebirths literally cannot serve as warriors, period" rule.

>>48040147
Given that "Clan conventional infantryman" is a literal death sentence, I'd think it's anything but boring.

>>48040430
The Jag thing is a little overblown with "exterminating". I mean after the Londerholm revolt we don't have a single incident of their lower castes ever trying anything again, so it sounds like they got the message. More likely their average day is boring due to instilled cultural fear.
Frankly the Jag war crime thing is a stale joke considering their worst actions are practically a Tuesday for most of the Inner Sphere. I mean the entire Clan literally disagreed with the bombing of Turtle Bay, even the most diehard Crusaders.

>>48040458
I'd believe it was more of death sentence if we ever actually saw them used. Even in the invasion of Huntress, the literal most dire time there could be for a Clan, the Jags never deployed non-elemental infantry to fight.

>>48041429
It's lackluster for the Inner Sphere but good propaganda since the other invading clans mostly didn't do that stuff (maybe the Bears did). I always assumed it simply meant the Jaguars truly were the closest inheritors of the SLDF's legacy.

>>48041429
>Even in the invasion of Huntress, the literal most dire time there could be for a Clan, the Jags never deployed non-elemental infantry to fight.
You saying you never stepped on or otherwise splattered the occasional dude on foot in MW3? I mean, they were apparently unarmed and probably weren't even warrior caste, but they might have been.

>>48041633
lol I always assumed those guys were helpless techs and laborers

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QUADS

>>48041429

>Frankly the Jag war crime thing is a stale joke considering their worst actions are practically a Tuesday for most of the Inner Sphere.

I don't necessarily disagree but the difference is while source material says "life is shit in the Davion Outback" or "the vast majority of the Capellan Confederation's population lives in crippling poverty with next to no hope for advancement or improvement ever (but does this happily because XIN SHENG XING SHENG)" we see the Jags doing a lot more horrible stuff in greater detail and doing so very frequently, up to and including letting a breadbasket world collapse into famine and plague because fuck your peasants and your genetically-engineered super-crop with high yield and the cure for the plague as a handy side effect, get into the gulag and make me some god damn bullets.

The Jags also appear to mostly have objected to being publicly shamed over the Turtle Bay thing and/or have felt orbital fire was excessive since the novels after that feature incidents where they wipe out whole towns and say that such events are common through their OZ.

But it's BT, characters being hypocritical and the authors not thinking things through properly is pretty much the default state.

I was reading TR 3060 and 3067 earlier today. The Kabuto entry says the Dracs don't use many Light 'Mechs and the Kabuto is meant to fix that. Whut. The guys with an ass ton of Panthers don't use many Lights now? Or the Stiletto entry that says Coventry Metal Works who build the Commando and invented the Dart don't know how to design Light 'Mechs since they've never done that before and so fucked the Stiletto up by accident.

I don't even know what I'm saying any more. I'm going to go get some rum and coke.

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Mongoose was always really super ugly to me so I made it into a tank with legs instead. IDK? Probably going to do the same thing to the Wyvern. No idea what I am going to do to the Champion.

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>>48042616
based off of this, I guess the digitigrade legs just spoke to me.

>>48042596
Yeah I was going to debate it but like you say BT fluff can be contradictory and things not thought through or forgotten, so there's not really a point. Just a lot of the pot calling the kettle black in universe.

Speaking of black, is the black out ever going to end? I thought ComStar had that fix but now they're mostly dead or absorbed by the RotS. RIP in peace.

>>48043062
Probably some time after the 'wall' falls.
Fuck knows what is even doing that though. Kinda doubt that even the writers had much of an idea when they came up with it.

>>48043062
>Speaking of black, is the black out ever going to end?

TPTB said they're holding off on moving the plot forward until they can find a way to do it that won't make any of the fanbase upset.

>>48043370
>until they can find a way to do it that won't make the entire fanbase form a lynch mob and come after them for fucking things up forever like they were planning to.

FTFY. :^)

>>48043397
How do you mean, exactly?

>>48043370

No matter what they do they're gonna piss parts of the fanbase off.

The stage has been set for the following:

Caps: Invasion of the Suns is over, time to beat up on the Republic.

Dracs: Civil war + overextension minimum, probably Bear warfare to boot.

Feddies: Resurgence. Won't recapture everything, will stop the Drac advance.

Lyrans: Spitroast II Electric Boogaloo.

Falcons: Will implode at some point but for now are still BTFOing the Lyrans. Horses will pull their support but since the Lyrans are on the ropes it's not going to hurt them as badly as it could have.

Wolves: Fuck knows, they're badly bled and the fight where they went up against Stone is no longer canon. Logically they need to consolidate and get properly set up.

FWL: Promptly forgotten and ignored, this is after all CGL. If that doesn't happen, maybe they'll hit the Caps while they aren't looking and try to destabilise the Wolves with insurgencies. Not sure they have the political unity to do much yet, the reformation of the League is still new.

Bears: Laugh themselves silly at how they're the best military with a navy strong enough to wreck everyone else's at once, probably help Stone out when he calls with the Dracs and perhaps Caps.

That seems to be the *logical* progression of the current plot threads, but since Ben Rome will be writing it we might get a CTRL+C, CTRL+V version of the 4th Succession War with names word-found and swapped out.

>>48043530

The usual sections of the OF rioted when 3140-45 plot material came out.

They've been caught in the headlights ever since. They know that if they go forward with things the way they've been leading towards they run the risk of a large portion ragequitting the game or at least not buying future product. But at the same time if they go back on what they've been foreshadowing the pandering will be obvious for all the world to see.

BT isn't a large enough game to survive if they mess the next step up. ilClan or whatever replaces it is make or break for the line and they know it.

So until they grow a pair and decide what to do about the mess they've created we get Alpha Strike products and Historicals set in a period of the game they told us they were never going to do.

It's like Forever 3067, except that it's Forever Succession Wars.

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>>48043530
They announced they were going to drastically simplify both the game rules and reduce the weapons/tech list to a minimal number, as well as revamping the construction rules. They released "Free Taiw- St. IVES" at the same wtime with totally-not-preview tech (just like they did with superheavies and a few other things. Pic related.

The fanbase went "Exfuckingcuse me, we play BT BECAUSE it's complex and arcane" and/or "WAAH I DON'T PLAY BUT CHANGE SCARES ME". So Herb fell on his sword after weeks of relentless trolling and CGL went into a multi-year holding pattern.

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>>48043948
I should also point out that this predates the release of Alpha Strike, which is likely the "simplified system" they were talking about. I imagine the lukewarm, but basically viable reception it got is also coloring their perceptions.

>>48043948
Huh, I honestly would not mind that. By 3150 shit is getting so complex, especially all the mixed IS/Clan tech and so on, that condensing it without having to go full 3025 on everything would be pretty good.

Though I don't trust CGL to do it. Which is kinda the problem. BT kinda needs to stop being a grogs only game and get fresh blood, but can't, so... gradual death spiral I guess.

>>48043948

To be honest the rules changes don't bother me and you could simplify things a lot by doing stuff like having the lasers able to fire as ER or Pulse like that and turn all missiles into MMLs. ACs you could reduce to Class 5 and 10 and giving them rapid-fire (more limited for the 10s, obviously) options and varying types of ammo.

You still get a wide variety of options but the equipment list and rules cruft is drastically reduced.

The only problem I foresee (other than the grog rage) is that as time advances they'll introduce new tech that basically amounts to old weapons with the serial numbers filed off, and then what was the point of wiping the slate?

Shimmy, your Stalker II is a manlet.

>>48044066
>is that as time advances they'll introduce new tech that basically amounts to old weapons with the serial numbers filed off

That basically appears to be what we have in those record sheets up there anyway.

Though I really fucking hope they're not literally planning on introducing grazers into the setting.

>>48044066
They could probably ease down a lot of the grog rage if they continue to produce the occasional Historical/Era Report/what-the-fuck ever supporting the earlier eras and its bigger list of gear and rules. Allow the grogs to grog as much as they want back in the 31st century and let the rest of us move forward with the setting.

>>48043720
>Bears: Laugh themselves silly at how they're the best military with a navy strong enough to wreck everyone else's at once, probably help Stone out when he calls with the Dracs and perhaps Caps.

They´ll probably get pinged by the wall to appease the fanbase.

>>48045600
More like, lose their sillyhueg fleet and still manage to roflstomp everything in sight and come out ahead, again.

>>48045600
>hey´ll probably get pinged by the wall to appease the fanbase.

NOTHING can be done to appease the fanbase. No matter what actually happens to Da Bears, fans will be salty about what came before.

Did you guys hear the rumor going around about the "ghost" line dev? Evidently Randall isn't actually the BT line dev; they hired somebody else last year, but they're putting Randall's name in the credits to shield the new line dev from the fanbase. If/when the new guy leaves the company, he'll get credit for the stuff he's worked on.

My local demo guy shares his CDT forum password with people during game days so we can download PDFs and email them to ourselves, and it's talked about in one of the older threads I was browsing while they were doing rules lookups. I'll see about a screenshot next time he lets me use his tablet at game.

>>48045667
You really want your buddy to lose his demo team status?

>>48045774

This is an anonymous forum. Only way for CGL to track anything is for me to do something stupid like say where I'm from or who my agent is. Which I'm not about to do.

Fuck those guys. I've seen the way CGL treats thier employees, volunteers, agents, and fans, and they don't deserve to have secrets.

>>48045600
I don't get the hate for the Bears. They aren't evil like the Falcons and Jaguars, or smug and Stackpolean like the Wolves. They have families and plan things out pragmatically.

>>48046022
Combination of tall poppy syndrome and angry FRR fans.

>>48043720

>Laugh themselves silly at how they're the best military

Even with that bit about them having recruitment and industry problems in the Field Manual?

>>48046022

They never lose. That's basically it. What few losses they incur don't actually hurt them in any measurable way, and sometimes even help them. And that's leaving out the utter laughability that is their aerospace arm, when they aren't even the "aerospace Clan".

It's all the fiat of the Suns and Cappies combined, PLUS they never lose, PLUS they can kill any five factions simultaneously, PLUS they get really good designs all the dam time, PLUS you're most like to have to fight against nothing but a shitton of assaults when fighting them, PLUS they're Clanners in the first place (which is evidently an issue for some folks). All that together? Of course people are going to hate them.

>>48046047

If it doesn't meaningfully affect them (and it doesn't), then it doesn't matter a damn. It's just meaningless fluff. If their industry was bad, then kill a half-dozen clusters and don't replace them because of those industrial limits. Or say that the Bears no longer have access to several Clan weapon systems or endo-steel or something.

Just "saying" that they have industry issues doesn't mean a damn thing if it's not reflected in game-relevant stuff.

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Why does this mech look like it's trying to activate its stand? Are the clans experimenting with ZA WARUDO technology?

>>48046350
>tfw you wish it was awesome but it sucks

>>48046350
FENIKKUSU HAAKU, A SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANJOU

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>>48046350
>yfw batchalls are really Stand Battles

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>>48046421
>Enemy Stand detected!

>>48046421
Does this mean Elementals are an attempt to recreate the Pillar Men?

AWAKEN, MY OVKHAN

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What's your favorite Reseen art?

>>48047277
The ones I already saw.

Is there an introtech 55 tonner with 1x PPC, 4x Medium Lasers and 5/8/5?

>>48048613
Probably a Griffin variant

>>48048613

GLD-4R Gladiator is the closest production unit, IIRC. 5/8/5, 55t, PPC, x2 MLs, and an SRM-6.

As a 1-off, the Griffin-1E "Sparky" is a 5/8/5, with a PPC and x5 MLs, 1 extra SHS, and 1 extra ton of armor. It's a unique variant, though.

That's about it. FASA did a pretty good job not making too many units that boated medium lasers.

>>48046022
>smug and Stackpolean
Care to elaborate?
I've only read maybe a quarter of the BT novels out there, most of which were done by him, so I probably don't have much of a comparison.

Can anyone give me the rundown on why not many folks like him?

Probably because that's about all I've read is the reason why I like Clan Wolf. Everything Wolf was predominant in made the Falcons and Jags look like schoolyard bullies with the political acumen of donald trump

>>48049152

Wolf is a weird clan in that it's the author pet clan. They have the legacy of kerensky, guard everything jealously related to it and won't let anyone have it, have the most mary-sue characters, split into both clan political factions and become two different flavours of wolf, and eventually adopt a mercenary freebirth as their khan.

Which is just... too much for me.

>>48049218
>and eventually adopt a mercenary freebirth as their khan.

That was the Exile Wolves. The Crusaders got Vlad "Freeborns are literally scum" Ward as their Khan.

>>48049253

He still won his bloodname before the split happened.

>>48049280
Freeborn warriors getting Bloodnames isn't that off-base, it's just unusual. Happens in every Clan not named Steel Viper and Smoke Jaguar.

>>48048613
No, but there is one with five, though it's a one-off
>>48048870
>FASA did a pretty good job not making too many units that boated medium lasers.
Especially in the DHS era; aside from the komodo I can't think of any mechs that really take advantage of the obscene amount of ML spam possible with level 2 tech

>>48049218
I can understand that, but from a plot point of view it's not too bad. Books are made interesting by having interesting things happen. No one wants to read about some clan that does the same shit as it did a hundred years ago.

I liked the Trent plotline, even if the romance felt tacked on, because it was a guy doing abnormal things.

And in terms of characters, no one wants to read about some guy who despite being abnormal doesn't have the power to affect change - this is why the main characters are almost always princes and khans and such.

Was it overdone at times? A little sue-ish? Sure, but there wasn't anything egregious. Then again, it's been a very long time since I've read shit like the Warrior trilogy of Twilight of the Clans, so I'm just going off of hazy recollections.

>>48049307
there's a Hunchback with multiple ML, doesn't?

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based jags are based

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>>48049384
the qtst of them all

>>48049373
Yes, the -4P. It's a 3025 model, though, so no DHS madness

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>>48049384
time for snu snu

https://benhrome.wordpress.com/2016/06/30/constructing-campaigns/

>Second, I immediately decided to go the fiction route I’d built for A Time of War, where the stories were all interconnected. I figured this was a great spot to further the current plot of the 3145 era, and combed through the constructed timeline to see what was what. I needed a major invasion incident that had some major players involved, in order to make it interesting and worth having nearly 24,000 words written about.

>The retaking (and subsequent loss again) of New Syrtis. Perfect. That was a Julian Davion story – a fan favorite character.

God damn it, Julian

>>48050009
I'm glad. Watching everything go a saviour's way would be dull.

>>48050009
thing I got most interested into

>Ever since the debut of the Chaos Campaign ruleset and tracks back in 2004, fans of the game have been asking for rules on how to construct their own tracks. For various reasons, we’ve never had the opportunity (or desire) to put them out there – but now was the best window we had. So I slated that as a primary section for the book, and assigned it to myself.

>>48050062
Yeah, and with a full printing of the Chaos Campaign stuff with errata it should be nice. I was afraid they were going to abandon that.

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>>48050009
>The retaking (and subsequent loss again) of New Syrtis.
CAPELLAN STRONK

>>48049218

>Wolf is a weird clan in that it's the author pet clan.

The only vaguely defensible argument for that is in the 3049-3052 era. After that they sucked hard. Smashed by the Falcons and never fully recovered, while the Falcons made up their losses from Elias Crichell's magical foresight Sibkos and pulling war machines out of full air. Lost a third of their OZ to the Bears who took all the Raslhagian worlds, including the ones who they'd upgraded factories on. The Bears also kicked the Hell's Horses out and humiliated them, but instead of adding that to their hate fuel for the Bears the Horses turn around, ally with the Bears, and then wreck the Wolves by fucking them up militarily and stealing half their OZ, including all the places the Wolves put new factories. Then the Jihad happens and WoB blows up what's left before getting repeatedly dicked over again and again by the Lyrans, Bears, Horses, and Falcons until the Dark Age when they decide they've had enough of that shit and get out of Dodge.

Their *sole* badass/successful moment in the 3056-31whatever era was when they smuggled the Kerensky legacy out of the Clan Homeworlds and denied it to the Home Clans.

If you want author's pet Clans, you're looking at the Jade Falcons, Ghost Bears, and Star Adders. If the Wolves ever had it, it was only for a ridiculously small period and to a much lesser extent than any of those.

>>48050469
>The Bears also kicked the Hell's Horses out and humiliated them, but instead of adding that to their hate fuel for the Bears the Horses turn around, ally with the Bears, and then wreck the Wolves by fucking them up militarily and stealing half their OZ, including all the places the Wolves put new factories.
All things considered I think the explanation for this events were very believable.

>>48050469
>the Jade Falcons

Ehhh. Jade Falcons go back and forth on this. They can pull lots of resources out of their assholes and killed the most legendary Mechwarrior in the Inner Sphere with a PMS'ing old Falconer, but they also tend to have tons of shit go wrong for them and have their plans get fucked badly.

>>48050469

I suppose, but as far as the clans are concerned, this was the period in history that actually mattered.

>>48050672

>All things considered I think the explanation for this events were very believable.

The had a massive hate-on for the Bears, and worked with the Wolves to get a shot at them. Then when the Bears wrecked them and stole their new OZ, humiliating them completely in the process they decided the Bears were their new best friends and allied with them to go after the Wolves.

And then the Wolves spazzed completely in their defence of their OZ and there's fluff about Points of Tanks wrecking entire Stars of 'Mechs because reasons.

It could have made sense if the Wolves attacked the Horses opportunistically or something and pissed them off, but it smacked of "everyone loves the Bears, nothing can go right for the Wolves."

>>48050797

>their plans get fucked badly

Not really? I mean the Red Corsair thing didn't work too well and Malvina's unsustainable, but actual consequences for their "bad" decisions are remarkably thin on the ground. Like, they theoretically "lose" in the FCCW era to the Lyrans, but the negotiated peace is way more favourable to them than the Lyrans, and whatever happens with Malvina she's hit the Lyrans so hard that they won't be able to retaliate in any meaningful way. Or despite Crichell's immediate plans for Clan domination coming apart at Vlad's hands, they still whip Veteran and Elite Clusters out of nowhere and then blitz the Steel Vipers so hard the Vipers ragequit and fuck up the Homeworlds.

>>48050918
>Not really?

Got their Khan killed in the Refusal War, the Jade Falcon Incursion got denied, Twycross and Tukayyid, Hell's Horses and Ice Hellions stealing worlds from them, Steel Viper annihilating their homeworld holdings, the motherhumping Society outbreak...

By the way, is Captcha being even more retarded than usual for anyone else?

>>48050892

Two or three years out of the almost 100 the Clans have been in the Sphere are the only ones that matter?

The TL;DR is that the Wolves are Clan Worf, or Reverse CapCon. They're talked up but lose to everyone so that their enemies can be shown to be better than the Wolves. The enjoyed one brief period of dominance before being hilariously BTFO'd ever since rather than getting owned one time and owning everyone else ever since.

>>48050992
I'd say that role belongs about as much to the Falcons. In fact I'd even say the entire reason the Falcons seem to have impossible recovery abilities is likely for the sole purpose of letting other factions beat them down over and over again, but never quite KILL them.

>>48051064

Let's say that's the case.

Where are the meaningful losses?

The Red Corsair was a sacrificial goat from the outset.

Vlad did them a favour by getting rid of Elias and Vandervahn, Marthe Pryde was much better.

Losing to Adam Steiner and Archer Christofori in the FCCW gave them a zone of worlds they were allowed to regularly contest and blood warriors on, which was all they wanted on that border.

When they lost the Homeworlds they, like everyone else, had moved most of their stuff to the IS and they had better industry set up in the OZ than anyone else.

The Society before the uprising provided them with loyal sibkos they needed to recover from their successful wars, and while they did get hit in the Jihad it was to a lesser extent than the Wolves. Even the Bears ate it harder. The conflict with the Horses was minor and leads to the Horses being jannisaries for the Falcons in the Dark Age because apparently that's their thing.

Around all that you have the Falcons drawing at Tukayyid, beating the Wolves in the Refusal War, beating the IS in the Great Refusal, utterly humiliating the Steel Vipers in a way not seen since the 4th Succession War, being major players in the Jihad, and then going 4th SW on the Lyrans' ass in the Dark Age.

What few reversals of fortune they have are massively outweighed by their more frequent overwhelming successes.

>>48051199

>When they lost the Homeworlds they, like everyone else, had moved most of their stuff to the IS and they had better industry set up in the OZ than anyone else.

Accidentally a few words, should have been "than anyone else but the Bears."

Also on the Falcon Incursion to Coventry, they were only doing that to grind for XP, and were allowed to go home with not much lost and a lot gained for troop quality.

The Jaguars wound up taking the negative consequence for Coventry rather than the Falcons, because it showed the Sphere the value of co-operation and leads directly to the formation of the second Star League.

>>48050956
>Ice Hellions stealing worlds

I for one am glad the Hellions took over part of the Falcon OZ and are now a vibrant member of the Inner Sphere

>>48051199
>Where are the meaningful losses?

Same place the meaningful victories are. When the Falcons get beat on it's generally just to be beat on, and when they do win it's nice and all but usually doesn't really get them anything especially important towards their goals overall. A planet or two here, one Clan or another moved out of their invasion corridor there.

>>48051377
Yeah about that...

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>>48048870
>FASA did a pretty good job not making too many units that boated medium lasers.
>>48049373
Aside from the Hunchie, I can recall a few - but again most were one-offs, like that obscene Thunderbolt from Galtor or the Atlas Danielle in Misery.

>>48049307
>aside from the komodo I can't think of any mechs that really take advantage of the obscene amount of ML spam possible with level 2 tech
Generally true, at least with regular MLs. But there were still a few mass-production units in 3050, and if you count large batteries of ERs a few more things pop up.
You've got the JVN-11A, a 6/9/6 with seven of the damned things, or the HBK-5P and its sextet of ERMLs plus twin MPLs and 36 sinks. The QKD-5K2 has a sextet of ERs, 5/8/5, and the sinks to use them but it's a Quickdraw. There's also the Templar, but that's an MFUK design.

If the Nightsky -6S or the Caesar "Gertrude" used MLs instead of ERMLs, they'd count, but as-is can't really use the hardware. Likewise, the "Claw-Hammer" HMR-3C has seven MLs but it's a 5/8/- 35-tonner and it ain't getting them in range.
There's more scattered through the books - usually hidden in the record sheets - but even CGL has been at least somewhat restrained with the spam.

As far as the Wolf thing - they're less the "Author's Pet" clan and more Clan Front and Center (literally) in the novel line. So they get a bunch of "main" characters doing improbable weird shit in and around them - Kitty jerking Victor off in a tube to finally realize her fucked-up incest fantasies being but one of those things.

>>48050918
>The had a massive hate-on for the Bears, and worked with the Wolves to get a shot at them. Then when the Bears wrecked them and stole their new OZ, humiliating them completely in the process they decided the Bears were their new best friends and allied with them to go after the Wolves.
The bears probably borrowed some of sun-tzu's "enemies to meatshields" potion for that particular trick

>>48049384
Somehow the fact she died offscreen made her cooler

>>48051397
>if you count large batteries of ERs a few more things pop up.
I feel like ERMLs are a dramatically different ballgame from regular MLs as regards spam, on account of their rather worse heat-damage ratio, which becomes increasingly pronounced as you add more

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Check out the official map for the upcoming HBS game

>>48052663
HBS?

You know, I wonder if on some periphery world of the periphery if there's some civilization that's collapsed to the point of being early industrial, imaging themselves to be alone in the galaxy and coming up with all sorts of religious beliefs to figure out how they got there.

>>48052720
Hairbrained Schemes, the blokes as did the kickstarter for the new game

Supercharger or MASC, which is generally a better idea?

>>48052720
Hare Brained Schemes.
They did the new Shadowrun games, and now Battletech.
They pretty much do all of Catalyst's video games now.

>>48053324
whynotboth.png. Otherwise, it's a matter of which you value more. When MASC fails, it blows something in each leg. That reduces your speed, and pisses off your techs if its your hip. When the Supercharger goes, it takes out your engine. So it's a toss up. You can pod mount Superchargers, which makes them a lot more effective on Omnis than MASC.

>>48053324
You can use a supercharger with TSM, so I'd give it the edge here

>>48053324
Supercharger. A MASC failure is a pretty serious blow to your mobility and thus your survivability. A supercharger failure is an engine crit, which, while bad, is only a heat problem up until you start actually taking engine crits for the old fashioned way. In terms of performance, a supercharger failure isn't as big a hit.

>>48051385

>Same place the meaningful victories are.

So wait, shattering the Wolves so badly they've literally never recovered and forcing them to flee their OZ, curb-stomping the Steel Vipers so hard they may as well have just bent over and grabbed their ankles to try and ease the pain a little, killing off the Ice Hellions almost-single-handedly and fucking the Lyrans harder than anyone ever has (and harder than any House has been except *maybe* the Capellans in the 4th SW) aren't "meaningful"?

What would they have to do to impress you?

>>48053324

Supercharger. Not only can you deal with engine hits and heat more easily than you can leg actuator crits, you can mix it with AES or TSM.

Or you can put MASC and a Supercharger on something and alternate between each per turn so you only have a 1/36 chance of something going wrong.

Superchargers are often lighter than MASC too since they're based on engine mass rather than unit mass.

>>48053494
>In terms of performance, a supercharger failure isn't as big a hit.
Technically, a supercharger failure MIGHT not be as big a hit, as a failure makes you roll to determine the number of crits in the normal fashion, just with damage applied starting at the top most undamaged slot.

So at best, the only effect is the supercharger itself breaks as that happens no matter what, at worst your engine is destroyed. Though the former is more likely to happen than the latter, and suffering only one hit most likely of all.

Dumb question. Say I have a mech with dual LRM10's and dual medium lasers, like a Dervish, Whitworth, or Gladiator-3R. Is my sweet spot 6 or 7 hexes? I assume 6 hexes?

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>>48051852
>I feel like ERMLs are a dramatically different ballgame from regular MLs as regards spam
I do too, which is why I threw the parenthetical on. The Fire Javelin II is still a scary as fuck standard ML spammer, though.

I feel like ERML spam is its own ballgame personally, since it's got better range and you can use it more effectively on slower units and skirmishers vs. having to get right up in someone's shit like a ML spammer does. Unfortunately, exploiting that range advantage puts you square in the danger zone for LRMs and gauss, which removes a lot of its utility in TL play.

>>48053669
They've taken a relatively small chunk of the Lyran territory, managed to get the Vipers out of their territory only after having them rampage through it for a few years, the Ice Hellions did about the same amount of damage before finally being ejected, and the Wolves pretty much got their revenge for the Refusal War in total by killing the Falcon Khan and preventing the Falcon absorption of their Clan.

>>48053738

6 hexes puts things at mostly the same TNs.

LRMs will be just at Minimum Range and on +1, the MLs or SRMs will be at Medium Range and on +2.

With the ones you're talking about I'd probably try to run the LRM bins dry before makind the decision on whether closing in is a good idea though. I think the Gladiator has decent enough armour but the Dervish and Whitworth are a bit fragile.

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>>48053738
Your sweet spot depends on what your opponent's packing, how much ammo you have left, and what TMMs you can squeeze out of the fight. Your LRMs are averaging 5+1 damage, so as long as you've got good ammo reserves and your opponent has a decent ML array you're usually better hanging out at 7-9 than closing to 6. With the Dervish specifically, you're usually best off hanging back to joust with the missiles and then closing to use SRMs, jets, and MLs to backstab once your Centurions and Enforcers have sanded off some armor for you.

>>48053779

1/5 or 1/6 of the Lyran Commonwealth doesn't really seem that small to me.

FMU shows the Falcons taking minimal damage from the Vipers, growing their Touman, and gaining more XP with the Vipers abjectly and utterly humiliated. They were so buttmaddened and weakened by the whole thing they kicked off the Wars of Reaving by trying to look relevant to everyone else afterwards.

Wars of Reaving and the JHS books also have the Falcons bouncing the Hellions with ease (and laughing about how shit the Hellions were with the Hell's Horses).

The Wolves never got their revenge for the Refusal War, the Falcons beat them every time they fought after that and Vlad was a total disaster as a Khan. He stuffed them logistically and lost most of the Wolf OZ with bone-headed decisions.

I think you're setting the bar for "meaningful win" as "utter domination and complete destruction of the enemy" rather than "utter domination of the enemy and becoming stronger each time because of it" which seems a bit unrealistic. The Falcons are certainly satisfying the latter description with only marginal losses to offset those.

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>>48053922

Since we're on the subject of ML spam, I'm wondering: what's the cheesiest custom mech that you've ever played against on the tabletop?

>>48050992

Considering they would've been the ilClan and taken terra had they not had a warden saboteur in the drivers seat? Yes.

Yes they were.

>>48053922
>1/5 or 1/6 of the Lyran Commonwealth doesn't really seem that small to me.

I dunno, I look at the map and it seems more like...a tenth, generously. Probably well under. And that's after the Incursion.

>FMU shows the Falcons taking minimal damage from the Vipers, growing their Touman, and gaining more XP with the Vipers abjectly and utterly humiliated. They were so buttmaddened and weakened by the whole thing they kicked off the Wars of Reaving by trying to look relevant to everyone else afterwards.

Vipers didn't kick off the Wars of Reaving because of losing to the Falcons in the Inner Sphere, they got butthurt over a single trial in the homeworlds where the Falcons hit them with artillery.

>Wars of Reaving and the JHS books also have the Falcons bouncing the Hellions with ease (and laughing about how shit the Hellions were with the Hell's Horses).

Huh, that's not the picture Field Update: Clans paints. They make it sound more like the Hellions were actually driving back several Falcon Galaxies, alongside the Horses, before the Falcons managed to rally and start pushing back.

>The Wolves never got their revenge for the Refusal War

Killing the Falcon Khan doesn't count? Not getting absorbed doesn't count?

>I think you're setting the bar for "meaningful win" as "utter domination and complete destruction of the enemy"

I think you're setting the bar for "Mary Sue" as "has any amount of success, period, regardless of all the problems that occur just because said problems have yet to utterly ruin the faction", so...yeah. Probably best to agree to disagree.

>>48053933
You, ah, do realize there's a lot more Lyran Alliance off panel there?

>>48053940

The Wolves never would have been allowed to win from an OOC standpoint, same as the FedCom could never be allowed to actually go on dominate the Sphere (or the FWL be allowed to competently use their massive fleet...).

Complaining about what *could* have happened if everything magically went their way doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter that you think it could or would have happened, it only matters that it didn't and the Wolves went on a near-century loosing streak, constantly being BTFOed by everyone pretty much immediately after Tukayyid.

Even complaining about page time for them makes no sense, the Falcons have more Scenario Packs, Starter Books, and novel appearances than the Wolves, including 7 novels (Jade Phoenix Trilogy, I Am Jade Falcon, Freebirth, Falcon Rising, Rending of Falcons) devoted to them while the best the Wolves get is appearing in novels dominated by other characters, usually characters from the FedCom.

In fact, aside from the FedCom the Falcons have easily the most page time of *any* faction in the game.

>>48054023
The LC's capital and three of its biggest factories are under threat from the Falcons. The loss of those would flat out be the death knell of the Commonwealth, because they can't afford to lose Tharkad, Donegal, Coventry or Hesperus II.

>>48054054

Personally, I like secular comstar, and we got BTFOed pretty bad ourselves. Precentor Focht makes up for it though, in my mind.

Really, it happens to everyone. Sure, it wouldn't have been allowed OOC, but it's still ridiculous the sort of author reaching that had to be done to stop the clans at Tukkayid even without the Wolf internal sabotage of the campaign.

>>48054098
I will be moved by this when it actually happens. Which it will not, ever. I'd be more inclined to expect a pushback from the Lyrans eventually taking back several worlds from CJF.

>>48054023

The LA has a lot of empty space in its interior.

I think there's 32 new worlds there. That's the most in one go since the initial Invasion, and the best managed against one House since the 4th SW.

>Vipers didn't kick off the Wars of Reaving because of losing to the Falcons in the Inner Sphere, they got butthurt over a single trial in the homeworlds where the Falcons hit them with artillery.

They were seriously pissed with the Falcons after getting kicked out of the OZ, a plot that was set up in Falcon Rising. Triply so because the Falcons let a Freebirth compete for a Bloodname mostly just to spite them on top of a near-Solahma Freebirth beating the best warrior their Clan had seen in generations.

>They make it sound more like the Hellions were actually driving back several Falcon Galaxies, alongside the Horses, before the Falcons managed to rally and start pushing back.

The Horses were the key to what little success the Hellions enjoyed. The Falcons weren't having that much trouble with them and as soon as the Horses negotiated to stand down the Hellions were straight fucked.

>Killing the Falcon Khan doesn't count? Not getting absorbed doesn't count?

Bare survival doesn't count for much, no. It's not like Vlad was some scheming mastermind, the Falcons tripped themselves up. Chistu by killing Ulric with TAG-designated LRM fire rather than duelling and Crichell by falsifying his fitness reports for decades.

But as you note we're unlike to convince one another.

>>48054119
Actually, to clarify, because the idea of the authors actually letting the Falcons have any of those worlds is utterly laughable. I will be moved by this when the Falcons are actually given the opportunity to make the ATTEMPT to do, which will not happen, ever.

I'm not against a pushback from the Lyrans really, either--it'd just be business as usual.

>>48054149
>because the idea of the authors actually letting the Falcons have any of those worlds is utterly laughable
The capellans have fucking new syrtis. We are at peak fiattard and anything is possible

>>48054119

How? The Lyrans might be reporting 33 regiments, but have a look at their strength ratings. They've got a little over 21 Regiments, they're badly under pressure from the Wolves on the other side, and the Falcons have nearly 37 Clusters.

The Lyrans might get a couple of worlds back when Malvina finally crashes and burns, but the LCAF has been badly hurt, mostly by the Falcons. I think she'll flame out and the Falcons will consolidate while the Lyrans try to get their breath back.

>>48054253
>and the Falcons have nearly 37 Clusters.

Most of which are also mauled pretty good and understrength, at least according to FR: Clans. Some are below 50 percent strength.

>>48054251

Whilst I am arguing against the Falcons here I think it's fair to note that it doesn't look like Robert Thurston will be getting any more work from CGL so the Falcons probably aren't going to be getting Coleman-tier free rides any more.

>>48054098

I could see them getting Coventry in a redux of the original Incursion but I don't think Hesperus or Tharkad will fall unless the Commonwealth is going to be destroyed wholesale, which isn't real likely.

>>48054286

No, I went through FM:3145 and adjusted for that. The Falcons are reporting 54 Clusters, they actually have 37.

>>48054320
Ohh, okay. That may explain some things; I'm behind when it comes to Dark Age. I don't really like the direction the Falcons took post-Jihad, either--Mongol doctrine was goofy and their new Khan was, last I checked, a Smoke Jaguar-tier psychopath.

>>48054362

All good, dude.

Basically the problem for the Lyrans is that they're getting pincered by two hostile forces. If the Wolves attack, they can't also hold out the Falcons and vice-versa but if either of them do advance the other is going to want to take advantage.The stuff in TR 3150 seems to indicate the Falcons have piled on more pain than was in the 3145 material too.

The Lyrans really need the Wolves and Falcons to say "You know what, let's stop now and consolidate our gains" or they're in for a really rough time.

Fortunately that seems to be what the Wolves are doing and if Malvina is deposed that will keep the Falcons occupied, which is what I'm guessing will happen soon.

Well, if they ever advance the plot.

>>48054140
>as soon as the Horses negotiated to stand down the Hellions were straight fucked.

The Hellions were actually straight fucked because they attacked the Horses, breaking the little nonaggression pact hey had made, so they got BTFO by both the Falcons and the Horses.

>>48054547
Ice Hellion really was the Cirno of the Clans, wasn't it?

>>48054592
THINKING JUST SLOWS YOU DOWN

And you know the images of the Clans on the sidebars of War of Reaving?
Ice Hellions are in the ninth position.

>>48055528
I laughed harder at that realization than I really should have.

>>48051422
It worked for Rasalhague. Why would Clansmen be immune?

>>48054362
>a Smoke Jaguar-tier psychopath
literally a dead meme that never made sense. Falcons are being worse than the Jaguars ever were.

>>48042596
>we see the Jags doing a lot more horrible stuff in greater detail and doing so very frequently
We really don't... ever. They bombard one city in the Inner Sphere with a warship. Something that the Inner Sphere forces have done fairly regularly (the Cappies even bombarded their own capital). We see them fuck up temporarily a plague world because they don't believe the locals, then develop a vaccine in a matter of days that the Combine couldn't do in centuries. On the other hand when the Lyran Commonwealth raided FWL worlds there are cases where they tossed nukes and biological weapons behind as they left, just as a matter of fact. We hear tell that the Jags force people into industries they require, literally no different that the Combine and Confederation. As to Turtle Bay, sure they probably objected to the attention it got since they were in competition with the other Clans, but it's also explicitly pointed out their own rank and file thought it cowardly and the guy responsible was quickly challenged and replaced. I know they destroy one town in one book, something objected to or believed wrong by Jaguar warriors too. But believing in chain of command and orders, and lacking a state terrorist organisation to suppress rebels like the FedSuns, Lyran state, Combine and Confederation, it makes sense they'd screw up in reprisals now and then. The Bears did the same things and never got listed "evil".

All in all, it's pretty accurate for that anon to say the war crime thing is a stale joke because literally the handful of bad things any of the Clans did in the Invasion era is a drop in the bucket to the shit the Spheroids were doing to each other before and after. The Combine genocided the Nova Cats ffs. Capellans were nuking people left and right. So "seeing the Jags do >more< horrible stuff in >greater< detail and >very< frequently is just plain wrong to claim.

>>48056651

Invading Clans, Exodus Road, and the Twilight of the Clans sourcebook all provide a great deal of coverage on how much damage the Jags were doing in an era where it was literally unthinkable for the Sphere to act that way.

On Nykvarn, the plague planet with the gene-modded crop that already cured the problem, the Jags started a famine that combined with the plague killed a quarter of the population. When Trent argues with Jez after being told to raze and kill a second town, she tells him to stop being such a whiny faggot because that's what the Jags do every day all over the OZ to deal with any opposition. Twilight of the Clans says it's going to take billions of C-Bills and at least two decades to see any measurable improvement in the OZ worlds the Dracs got back because they were all so badly fucked by the Jags.

The Jihad is just a giant clusterfuck of random actions because Wizkids said it was that bad. Using it to say that the Jags weren't all that bad is taking things way out of context. Likewise, the First and Second Succession Wars occurred off-camera.

By contrast, we don't see how horrible life is in the Outback or what it's like for Servitors. That stuff basically amounts to throw-away lines that are never really dwelt on.

>>48054251
>The capellans have fucking new syrtis. We are at peak fiattard and anything is possible

Not until we've taken Terra and New Avalon we aren't.

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>>48054592
>Ice Hellion really was the Cirno of the Clans, wasn't it?
>>48055528
>THINKING JUST SLOWS YOU DOWN
>And you know the images of the Clans on the sidebars of War of Reaving?
>Ice Hellions are in the ninth position.


There's a reason I requested this.

>>48056651
>They bombard one city in the Inner Sphere with a warship. Something that the Inner Sphere forces have done fairly regularly (the Cappies even bombarded their own capital).

They bombarded a planet with a Warship when nobody in the Inner Sphere had done that in >150 YEARS<.

Sure, the IS did that all the time in the 1st and 2nd SW, but that was well-out of living memory for every single instance in the IS. If IRL Russia used poison gas in the Ukraine, you wouldn't say, "ah, well Euros use poison gas all the time" because they used it in WW1. And that's not even fully 100 years ago; the IS is tacking another FIFTY years onto that.

The stuff that happens later in the Jihad doesn't matter. The only thing that matters when measuring the response of the IS to Turtle Bay is the events of the IS up to that point (maybe rounding up to the end of the Clan Invasion). Lumping orbital bombardments committed 17 years after Turtle Bay in the argument and saying "oh, the IS shouldn't be horrified at Turtle Bay because THEY did it a generation later" is...well, it's a pretty stupid argument. Sorry, mate. Context matters.

In honour of the green birds, new thread:

>>48057110
>>48057110
>>48057110

>>48056737
>we have these isolated incidents totally in fluff
>but any other fluff is totally out of context
2/10 you tried

>>48057194

>Those incidents
>Isolated

Dude, no. Just no. They weren't isolated, they were routine. The Jags *doing* them say they're routine, the text says they're routine.

>>48056790
>The stuff that happens later in the Jihad doesn't matter.
That's the dumbest fucking attempt at an argument I may have yet seen. The Inner Sphere wasn't doing orbital bombardments at that particular point because they'd just spent two centuries destroying their own capacity to do that. And as soon as they got warships again war crimes came right back. Fuck your moronic attempt at goalpost moving.

>>48057248
Some of them may have routine. Some weren't. We have the pov of people on one world to go on. In any case your attempt to utterly discount the Jihad renders your argument weak b8.