/wmhg/ Warmachine and Hordes General

conflictchamber.com now supports Facebook logins as well as Google logins.

facebook dot com slash conflictchamber also exists, but is only really barely there as I'm not really a "social media expert". But I suppose it's another place to post suggestions and mention bugs.

>>47998494

Here's a tip. You and your site rocks! Love it dude, keep up the good work.

MKIII didn't solve caster inequality.

There are so many more shit casters than in MKII.

The only thing that changed was that the stupid bonkers casters switched around with some getting nerfed to bonedust and other brought to just "good" tier.

Hopes and dreams shattered, boys.

It's only up from here, at least.

>>47998569

I agree. Soles was a disaster.

I watched most of the Troll casters go from B range to C range, as did most of the lights.

Look at the Slag Troll. Tell me that's not garbage now. Shit animus, one fucking shot (But dat assault keke).

And yeah, in a world of pre-measuring I'm sure someone will really get that Slag to charge something worthwhile. Garbage.

>>47998569
I feel like only Gaspy2 and Vayl2 were obliterated. The other 'S' tier casters were relatively unchanged.

then there are the great casters that were given retarded buffs, like cain2

AND the casters I feel slipped through the cracks. Sloan, Madrak2, Lylith3, Gaspy1 who have retarded threat ranges or lie Mardrak are just straight up unkillable.

Its lame.

>>47999811

Madrak 2 already has an errata. Grim Salvation only works against basic attacks.

So any special attacks, power attacks or spells get through it now. Which is fucking bizarre but whatever.

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>>47999811
My entire faction (minions) got almost nothing but buffs.

>>47999917

Rhulic looking stronk now, I'm hype.

I wonder how badly Menoth got trashed though, I wanted to try picking them up next.

Anyone else's War Room only show the Avatar of Menoth for Menite warjacks?

>>47999977
Menoth looks fairly strong.

>>47998338
Is Iron Kingdom Wild Adventure in yet? I wanna see Croaks and their damn Conjoined Twin career.

>>48000000
God damn, it's beautiful

>>47999977
>>48000024

Most of PoM's casters got stronger (Minus Harby of course) and most of our jacks stayed the same but got cheaper.

Most of the infantry got a slight downgrade but, honestly, not by any insurmountable amount.

Overall, the biggest Nerf is still the Choirs Battle and Enliven. Well, and Harby who is maybe went from the best to one of the bottom casters in Menoth. We shall see though.

>>48000000
You need to swipe over to the caster and select the jacks as an attachment.
It only shows the avatar cause he can't be part of a battlegroup

>>48000024

Cool. Would I be able to run decent/strong lists with Amon, Thyra, Durst, Kreoss and Feora? I have a Severius model lying around but nothing to play him with, so i'm going through the list of Warcasters I should get.

>>48000120
I though that career was previewed in an Insider a couple months back.

>>48000000
>>48000000
>>48000000
>>48000000
>>48000000

>>48000000
I'm witnessing glory in all its /tg/ness.

>>48000000
48 MIL GET

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>>48000000
Check'd

>>48000000
And /tg takes its rightful place as the king of boards until 49mil

>>48000131

The apes that coded this need to be shot.

>>48000000

PRAISE BE TO THE CREATOR OF MAN!

>>48000182

Amon and Thyra got considerably better.

Durst is mostly the same, I.E. good. Kreoss1 is actually better somehow.

Kreoss 2 and 3 are about the same I think.

Feora 1 is technically better but, overall she is about the same. There is less infantry so her feat might be a bit diminished but she still has Ignite. I Always liked her personally but she's probably still a c+ player.

Feroa 2 got kind of a nerf. She lost Ignite and Got an upkeep that gives a jack Continuous Fire instead of having her old ability. The changes to jacks themselves though probably make her out to be much the same. So she is probably still pretty strong.

Both Sevvies are actually real good.

I think Vindictus is real good now as well.

>>48000000

48 million heretics were burned for this.

>>47999895
Well thats good, I suppose

>>48000187
It was. Sadly the race was not, and neither were the unique talent's full text. I am hoping someone is kind enough to scan Wild Adventure.

>>48000000
Witnessed.

>>48000182
Amon is beastly now, but wants a list that looks pretty radically different than everyone else (with the exception of maybe Durst).

Kreoss1 is still good. Both Sevvies are quite good.

The new BB caster is quite good as well.

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>>48000000
>ON TOPIC

>>48000388
Conjoined says, "When this character becomes exhausted, his turn does not immediately end, but he still cannot cast spells next round."

Share the Load says, "When this character removes fatigue points during his Maintenance Phase, he removes 1 additional point." Takes Will 10.

Powerful Attack (Magical) is just powerful attack for a spell. Takes ARC 6.

Bounder is cost 1 rng 6 non-upkeep and says, "Target friendly character gains the Feat: Bounding Leap Mighty archetype benefit. Bounder lasts for one round." Mudfoot is cost 2 rng 10 and says, "Target character cannot run or charge and treats open terrain as rough terrain for one round."

Ret got a good new caster and most of our Casters got buffs or were left the same!

Ravyn still seems a bit weak tho, any reason to use her?

>>48000518
Thats really neat!

Does the Croak Race get anything cool?

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Is Durst really the Wurst?

I have no idea what i'm doing with this list but I thought a bunch of annoying warjacks with anti-bullshit tech supported by Paladins, Vassals and a good ol' fashion Errant jamming unit would be nice. Plus sacrificial Zealots for the hell of it.

>>48000388
>>48000518
Croaks are:
PHY 5/7/7/8
SPD 6/7/7/7
STR 4/5/6/7
AGI 4/5/6/7
PRW 4/5/6/7
POI 3/5/5/6
INT 2/4/5/6
ARC */4/6/7
PER 3/4/6/7
Can take Cunning, Gifted, Skilled, and Mighty. Languages are Kworak, Havaati and one other. Height 45-60, 44-56. Weight 130-165, 95-150.They have Amphibious and Poison Glands which says, " A croak can spend a quick action to coat one of his melee or thrown weapons with poison, which affects the weapon’s next attack. A character damaged by a poisoned weapon must immediately make a PHY roll against a target number of 12. If the roll succeeds, nothing happens. If the roll fails, the target suffers an additional d3 damage. Croaks are immune to the effects of croak poison."

>>48000000
Praise Him!

>>48000620
Pretty good, even with int 2. I like them.

>>48000561
Having access to snipe is always good.

She literally hasn't changed since Mk2 beside getting on the higher side of warjack points.

Using a Gorgon to jam infantry or Aspis to shield guard can let her skirt the front line and clean up infantry.

And her feat is nice to make lower rat attacks hit more often like stormfall archers and save focus for jack guns.

But any way you used her before is just as viable now.

>>48000964
>b-b-b-but muh weak infantry

>>48000976
What are you talking about? Ret infantry is pretty fantastic. Was pretty good in Mk2 and even better in Mk3.

>>48001213
It was a shitpost about how people think infantry is shit in mk3

>>48001265

Infantry still strong, a few outliers got nerfed (but still stronk) and warjacks just became more.. accessible. Its still the same shit you just have probably 1-2 additional warjacks floating around now.

Can I use Kreoss 3 and get away with not taking cavalry? I like him but I don't really want to buy and paint a unit I feel underwhelmed by..

>>47999811
>Vayl2
>obliterated

A+

>>48000000

Where were you when 48m was get

>>48000588
Zealots are pretty bad, man. Durst doesn't really do anything for them either. I've found durst wants as many jacks as you can reasonably fit in the list.

>>48001563

What jacks should I take? What about a Judicator?

So, first major con of the year under the new rules. Look at this shit that got first and 3rd:

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/tournaments/view/103

Man this edition looks so FUN to play. I mean those lists look like they were likely real FUN to play against.

>>48001736

>hating Dorfs finally taking a spot in top three

The Cephalyx list looks gay tho

>>48001736
tournament play has always been cancerous
also
>7 different factions in top 8
seems okay to me

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>>48001816

Don't hate Dorfs. Hate gunlines, I migrated from 40k because of shit like that.

List 1 with Sorscha is just a gunline/assassination list.

List 2 is more of the same

Dorf list is the same.

Garbage edition if this holds.

>>48001692
Man I hate the new judicator. Without the choir hit buff it's not going to hit anything with inaccurate AOE3's or 8" sprays. The Revelator, on the other hand, looks like it'll be sick with everybody. For Durst, I like a Templar, and a Sanctifier to follow the infantry squad. I want to try Indictors for feat jamming, might work out against beasts since animi count as spells. A Guardian is nice, good threat and arc node for cheap. Reckoner or Vanquishers are decent, a single Vanquisher is good for anti infantry duty since its hard to jam now with 2" thresher. Vigilant is a good buddy for Durst.

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>>48001834

Maybe a bit but at least there was piece trading. Gunlines didn't really exist.

This doesn't bode well looking at that shit.

>>48001892
if you legitimately look at all of those lists, there aren't many pure gunlines.

>>48001736
Widow makers in every khador list

Cunt hitching them confirmed btfo

>>48001892
>>48001912
It's almost like there's a variety of playstyles available now that are viable

>>48001998
I'm fairly certain the guy complaining about gunlines gave a quick glance at the list and saw models that shoot and claimed everything is a gunline

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>>48002025

Are you on drugs? Here is the 1st list I was talking about

Sorscha 1
Behemoth
Juggernaut
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (max)
Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeer
Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeer
Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeer
Jozef Grigorovich
Widowmakers
Widowmaker Marksman
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt
Kapitan Valachev
Reinholdt
Eiryss 1
Kell Bailoch
Alten Ashley


Now tell me, what is that list meant to do?

>>48001736
The gunbunny list is the only one that looks really obnoxious. Otherwise, the lists are if anything less spammy than Mk2 lists.

>>48002025

Warmachine has always had strong shooting elements in a number of armies, but melee is still present and a natural conclusion given the scenario formatting.

You're going to have to get close, and assuming equally skilled players, someone is getting charged, trampled, or otherwise an assassination vector.

>>48002130
Did you cherry pick a single list and then claim the entire game will fall under gunlines? Seriously?

>>48002130
Die horribly to decent shooting hate?

I mean, I may be biased because I play Circle, where shooting hate is a staple of every good caster, and Menoth, where Passage is a thing, but, yeah. You put 3x min Rifle Corps + max rocketeers in each, and you'd have something, but that's... just a good shooting list.

>>47999811

I think Harby is kind of in the Doghouse personally.

Seryn also took a major hit.

I really think that's about it though.

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>>48001505
Where were you...

>>48002213
To be fair, it's a really awesome shooting list. There's basically nothing you can do about and you're going to die. Not sure if it's all the different from the Mk2 version

>>48001736
Most of the lists I've made are skews this edition

A Rahn Mittens list works well with Stormfall Archers right? All the Knockdown will make their Brutal shots deadly right?

75 pt Rahn List test
Rahn
-Sylys
-Aspis
-Phoenix
-Sphinx
2 magisters
3 mechanics
2 MHA
1 Artificer
2 Units of Battle Mages
1 unit SFA
1 Heavy Rifle Team

Artificer Protects my SFA, Rahn and Battle Mages+Magisters do their Hijinks, mechanics do mechanic stuff, MHAs are there to finish off stuff that gets wounded, Warjacks do Warjack stuff.

Should I drop the Aspis and both Magisters for a Gorgon and 1 more Artificer? I kinda think this list could make Rahn a little vulnerable, so the Aspis may be a good idea.

So what are your thoughts on this list? It's not that great against that Sorcha shooting list since Aiyana and Holt, but it seems like it can do anti infantry and armor decently.

War Room Army

Protectorate of Menoth - Amon Castigator Madness

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army


High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza - WJ: +29
- Castigator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Castigator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Castigator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5)
- Castigator - PC: 12
- Castigator - PC: 12
- Castigator - PC: 12
- Castigator - PC: 12
- Dervish - PC: 7

Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6

I was thinking that Amon fixes most of the problems with the Castigator, gives it better mat and power, increases threat on Combust, and generally speeds it up with pathfinder to boot. I'll probably swap out the mechanik with a Wrack.

>>48002628
Would

75 pt Rahn List test
Rahn
-Sylys
-Aspis
-Phoenix
-Sphinx
1 magister
3 mechanics
2 MHA
1 Artificer
2 Units of Battle Mages
1 unit SFA
2 Heavy Rifle Team

>>48002661
If those were crusaders you'd gain an entire extra heavy warjack and 4 points

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>>48002661
>Castigated x7
Whyyyyy?

>>48002717
You lose out on an inch of threat and any anti infantry capabilities tho. Plus the Crusader has two more pow on the mace but two less on the off hand so I consider that mostly a wash. You can get to nine crusaders, it might shake out to be better but I wanted to give the Castigator a shot before throwing it in the garbage

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Selling my Circle and picking up Cryx, the memes are too strong.

I want to play Venethrax and Scaverous. I'm already getting the new BB, and I've got an old Slayer and Skarlock Thrall sitting around.

What else should I get?

>>48002831
Croe's Cuttroats

>>48002818
>Plus the Crusader has two more pow on the mace but two less on the off hand so I consider that mostly a wash.
It really really isn't. A POW14 slapping-hand is find to pulp just about any infantry dudes, but when you're going in to a heavy you really want that extra POW on the main weapon because you're going to be buying up to three attacks with it, so having your POW loaded onto one weapon helps your heavy-killing math significantly.

>>48002774
Amon is literally the only caster that makes them not shit. Plus they're pretty cheap.

>>48002848
Already got em, I've got most of the mercs that'll work for Cryx, I think I'm only missing Steelheads and Devil's Shadow Mutineers.

>>48002661
Amon and 7+ heavies is good, pretty much regardless of the jacks used.

For the same cost as 7 Castigators, though, you could get 2 Castigators and 6 Crusaders, which I currently think is better. Main reason is with FM: Parry, tramples cover a lot of the anti-infantry you need, and you get more boxes and higher PS on most of the jacks.

I really like dual Sunbursts in Amon jackspam, though.

>>47999977
> Rhulic looking stronk now, I'm hype.
Can you explain why? Their artillery is better, and bunnies loves power up. But they have no good shooting otherwise, they're still slow as fuck, and with pre-meassures they'll always be on a receiving end.

>>48002897
What about this?
War Room Army

Protectorate of Menoth - Amon Castigator Madness

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army


High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza - WJ: +29
- Castigator - PC: 12
- Castigator - PC: 12
- Castigator - PC: 12
- Crusader - PC: 10
- Crusader - PC: 10
- Crusader - PC: 10
- Crusader - PC: 10
- Crusader - PC: 10

Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Wrack - PC: 1

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
Deliverer Sunburst Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 5

>there are still minion players complaining about the combining
What retards

>>48003056
Indeed. Hopefully the theme forces will shut them up.

>>48002990
Avalanchers are legit good with Durgen, Cont:Fire on AOE4 is scary, and they KD so the rest of your guns get to poop on whatever they hit. They can't punch heavies for shit, but a Durgen list can realistically remove two heavies at range so that isn't a big deal.

As for speed, Ossrum has Energizer so his jacks are effectively SPD6, and on feat turn they're effective SPD7 (or 9 with Energizer). His battlegroup has a 13" melee threat on feat turn, 10" otherwise, that is on the upper end of battlegroup threat without outside assistance. And if he wants to get really cheeky he can bring Lanyssa Ryssyl for Hunter's Mark too.

>>48003129

I want to pick up Rhulic at some point but having to pick up, mix in and paint all the other merc units they like has been a turn off.

I may have to commission someone else to paint it, my backlog is so full and I never have time for the hobby aspect anymore.

>>48003129
>Avalanchers are legit good with Durgen
It's still RNG 12 gun on the SPD 4 'jack (with 17 pts cost, no less).

> remove two heavies at range
On the feat turn, I suppose?

Energizer become worse, if anything - only one option now and no 3" movement. Also, I forgot to mention last time - no 'jaks with reach (aside from colossal ofc).

Is it just me or this edition making everything into a gunline battle. I feel even SKORNE want to be bringing a gunline now.

>>48003393

Idk I've always been shot at a lot in Mk I and II, even by our local Cryx players. Maybe that's just my meta in effect but to me its always been a ranged game with scenarios that force people into semi-close range.

>>48003393

Gunlines have always been strong. That is why scenarios exist. Without them, gunlines would win every game by just shooting and moving back.

Plus, it hasn't been a month yet and people are playing what they think is strong. Right now that is gunlines and jack spams. Once people start beating them then the meta will have to shift away from it.

Skorne gunline is legit though. Skorne gunline was good in MK2 but titan spam was just better. Now that Rasheth is a bigger player and Skorne melee beasts took a hit, it's kind of a natural progression.

Skorne still has a lot of melee shit though.

>>48002661
So plan for the orginal list is is to Congo throw the enemy heavys out of their casters control areas?

>>48003589
>Skorne still has a lot of melee shit though.

Emphasis being on the word 'shit'.

>>48003601
Or just punch them to death. With Choir and Synergy they get to 21 on both fists

>>47999917

I finally jumped ship from Skorne to minions since I already had some of them and they're way more viable now, enjoying them so far

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>tfw Ghost Walk nerf killed pDenny pirates

>>48001736
>No Skorne
NANIIII???

>>48002831
I actually fell out of love with croes and scaverous. They are totally broke up


I recomend bane knights and blood witches, they work well with both casters. Nyss are good with most everyone, but they don't factor into my builds with these two.

For support you will want the withershadow combine, darragh wraith, bane lord tartarous, ragman, warwitch sirens x2. Flavor with soul trappers/ machine wraiths as needed.

Jacks- DJ, arc node of choice, wrong eye, then wait for the inflictor/seether kit. The harrower is also an option

>>48000510
Is that a jetpack?

>>47999917
>Gatorman Posse
Almost the whole faction

>>48000000
W I T N E S S E D

>>47998569
And we got a lot of new bonkers casters.

>>48000000
Sexts confirmed it: Warroom UI design sucks ass.

>>48001736
>Man this edition looks so FUN to play
Did you know that you can't charge knocked-down models?

PP keeps telling us MK3 needed no field test, but this IS the MK3 field test.

>>48001856
>Hate gunlines, I migrated from 40k because of shit like that.
Are you me? I was very sceptic of people calling MK3 the gunline edition, but it's actually pretty accurate.

>>48004570
That is totally a jetpack.

>>48005367
>are you me?

This isn't reddit

>>48005482
The evidence is clear

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>>48005335
>this IS the MK3 field test.

>>48005423
Excellent; I love jetpacks

We need a Khadoran Warjack with a jetpack.

>>48005588
>>48005511
T-t-t-t-triple dubs!

>>48005482
>This isn't reddit
Then stop namefagging.

>>48001736
I'm more worried about that fact that 7 of the top 8 were Warmachine armies, I know they're the new shiny right now because of Power Up but when the only Hordes showing is Bret Fogel at 5th that seems like a sign something is up.

>>48006222
Worry is understandable, but it's impossible to make sweeping statements about balance at this point. I think you hit the nail on the head with "Power-up is the new shiny"... we're going to see a lot of things like the Durgen list this year that attempt to break that mechanic.

To sober yourself up a bit, I find it helps to go back and look at lists from the first couple months of Mk2, and see what we all thought was good/bad/broken when nobody had any idea what they were talking about. I was playing double cyclones in one list of most pairs. My buddy was playing IF Kayazy with Butcher1. If you went on the forums, you'd get hit with unassailable truths, like:
(1) Thags2 shredder spam breaks the game
(2) Doomy1 is the worst caster in Trolls
(3) Every Cryx list should include Deathjack

...and on and on. We didn't know what we were talking about then, and we don't now. Not saying this edition is going to turn out to be miraculously more balanced than the last, or anything like that. But I'd be surprised if Durgen Bunny Spam is still a thing in a year.

People will figure out a way to counter it, and it will become just one of those meta trends you need to be able to respond to.

>>48004570
>Minuteman piccy
>Is that a jetpack?
Eh, it's more like ye olde 40k jump pack. The little guy can walk further than he flies.
(Not that flying is anything to write home about in Warmachine universe; the wingalingiest dragon can only get himself maybe 6 or 7 feet off the ground, tops... enough to clear rocks and low shrubs, but still within range to be stabbed by a guy with a knife that he tries to pass over top of)

>>48003589
>Plus, it hasn't been a month yet and people are playing what they think is strong.

This deserves repeating. We're not seeing any real counter-play yet because the meta hasn't settled yet. We don't know what's going to replace the "Cryx drop" yet; I suspect it's going to be a straight up swap to "gunline drop", but we'll see.

>>48006377
My favorite from that era was ambivalence and disappointment with the Warpwolf Stalker.

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God DAMN 5" Obliteration is really fucking good.

I've been trying out Helynna, and I really didn't expect to cast it so much. With Sylys and Hand of Destruction it absolutely shreds everything.

Pic related, this is unexpectedly how Helynna plays.

>>48004199
The fuck are you talking about?

Ghost walk functions literally the exact same and is now one focus cheaper. Ghost Walk got a buff you bumbling retard.

>>48006651
5" Obliteration is why I suspect pHexeris will be better than eHexeris. The problem I faced when proxying up eHexeris was that I couldn't land Black Spot or Ashes to Ashes on my opponent's infantry in the first place, so just dumping a 5" POW8 blob on them solves the problem. I think Dark Dominion is probably better than Arcane Reaver too since every faggot and his nan has high DEF against spells on his infantry these days anyway, and Arcane Reaver is fucking useless against Warmachine. Death March seems like it'd be sweet as a nut on Nihilators whose main problem is generally hitting things in the first place. At MAT9 your infantry doesn't really stand a chance.

>>48006870
>friendly faction model

>>48007069
Ghost Walk says model/unit.

>>48007109
I think he's more agitated about the FACTION part. Which is weird, because the only full-size merc unit Cryx ever used was Nyss Hunters.

>>48007157
Pirate boat was a Deneghra staple.

>>48006883

>Field Marshal[Channeler]
>long leash on ADing eyeless sight razor wurms
>Eyeless sight on a stick from extollers
>Cheap as chips dog nodes

"cant land a black spot or ashes to ashes on my opponents infantry"

okay.jpg

>>48000120
The books has been released for ages, anon. As for a scan, no one has posted it here.

>>48007219
Haven't seen that since I started playing. And recently it seems to have been completely replaced by Nyss + Mutineers + solos.

>>48007338
My opponent that game was a Legion player using Hex Hunters who are already DEF14, but he put them up to DEF16, making me need 9s to hit. Admittedly I rolled like trash the whole game but still, a 5" template is much better for taking out a mass of infantry than Ashes to Ashes. I can still channel through beasts by upkeeping Soul Slave, and it's not like I was going to cast Obliteration twice a turn anyway.

At one point I charged my opponent's half dead Angelius with Hexeris, swung 8 times, feated to take 7 fury, swung 7 times, and only just killed it on the last swing. I missed about 10 of my attacks when I needed a 7 to hit (58% chance to hit).

>>48007449
Yeah, last time I faced my friend using legion he took hex hunters (along with plenty of other infantry) and i turned him bodily into salt with liberal application of templates. In fact that's how I dealt with 60% of the list he brought. High def low arm stuff.

Phoenix halo cannon, stormfall archers, Rahn's chain blast. And that delicious force mastery to make sure they always go exactly where I want them to.

It was fun.

>>48007618
>High def low arm stuff.
I'm really lookinf forward to playing more Haley3. My high-def stuff also has high arm. And can be revived. And there was much rejoicing.

>>48007749
As the Skorne player in this chain I ain't worried about your high armour shit. Top Skorne players seem to think Nihilators aren't great now, but fuck off they're PS12. That's really high for small based infantry who cleave through assholes like a hot knife through butter. On an average roll I can box ARM18 infantry. And since my Nihilators are MAT9 usually fuck your DEF too. Unless you're somehow like 18/20, in which case you're just a faggot.

>>48007219
Not a good one. Just one way to run her.

You cant ghost walk nyss anymore

>>48007807
UA for Mercs next book then?

Comments?

Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 (+29) points

(Kreoss 1) High Exemplar Kreoss [+29]
- Reckoner [16]
- Vanquisher [17]
Initiate Tristan Durant [4]
- Redeemer [11]
- Redeemer [11]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5]
Exemplar Errants (max) [16]
- Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Knights Exemplar Seneschal [5]
The Covenant of Menoth [4]
Wrack [1]
Vassal Mechanik [1]

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>>48008112
I think I like this one better.

Kinda one-dimensional, though.

>>48007899
That would be welcome. Hopefully it costs 3 points

>>48008164

Maybe its just my bad luck and dislike of the model, but I'd take a Templar overa Vanquisher yeah.

What's the plan with the Seneschal? You should have some decent jamming going on with the two heavies and Errants with Piper and Covenant support, i'd just be afraid of them going fast.. but you've also got so much dakka its hard to ignore.

I picked up two seethers and an inflictor kit coming in august.

Nightmare is always good.
Ihave always like Venny - kewl skulpd

>>48008253

I'm actually going to pick up Cryx just for that guy. Maybe Skarre if I work up the nerve for big infantry lists, or Deneghra just to be a dick.

>>48008227
Seneschal is just there for unyielding. With Def Ward on the Errants, Unyielding drives it up to "you need to expend jack-cracking resources to kill my 12-man small-base unit".

Mostly plan to gobble up scenario points while chipping away with the shooting and threatening ranged assassination.

>>48008293

Only thing i'd be afraid of is Stealth or other Menite armies.. but even then. Looks fun to play and annoying as hell to fight.

>>48005679
>>48005511

Since you are all new to 4chan,

There is nothing wrong with name fagging within a thread if there is an on going conversation, Its stupid as fuck to constantly identify yourself as the op or have an argument about who said what. The solution is to adopt a temporary name, it's too easy.

It's not a tripcode, any one and everyone can be known as "investigator".

This name is from the last few threads I started (lurk more) and I've just forgotten to get rid of it, It's not really important.

>>48007796
>As the Skorne player in this chain I ain't worried about your high armour shit.
I also play Skorne. We ahve a real armor-cracking problem in MK3.

>>48008377
>your

>>48008282
Denny3 is a very good pair for him

Was there ever complete deck leaks for factions? Specifically Khador?

>>48008417
At the moment my opinion is that we should just bring an Agonizer and a Gladiator and revel in the fact that if we can't crack armour, our opponents can't either. I fucking love how the Agonizer's -2STR debufff applies to EVERYTHING. Like, my Menoth playing friends have called so much bullshit on that bubble because why would a fucking ROBOT of all things care about a crying baby elephant? Also I mostly just play Makeda1 at the moment so can still pull bullshit Karn assassinations.

>>48008538
Yes but I've been fishing for it for a while since I only pulled the Skorne one before it got taken down. I know guys who want the entire thing to check out every faction (myself included) but no one wants to updated to Mega or somewhere to spread the love. I have the Skorne PDF if you're interested.

>>48008313
Yeah, and I don't think Rhoven really helps because I can't see fitting him in and he only buffs a single model. I think I'll have to just offload stealth lists to the other list in the pair (which is probably going to be Amon jackspam).

>>48008579

I think you're solid then if you know what your mach up will be.

>>48008556
how does -2str affect the pow of my gun?
or my other gun?

>>48008377
Yeah man, people need to calm down.

>>48008634
and your mother needs to whoop your ass for being seen in public with that haircut.

maybe change your clothes.
it ain't 1999 columbine no more!

>>48008626
It doesn't.

>>48008695
kewl. thanks. i'm new and like a shooty-time. busting shots all over the board. lots of splash everywhere.

and i keep hearing about this agonizer thingee. does it like to catch big rounds to the face? if not will it feel like a trap?

i want to skorne, but everything is so expensive. and i think it needs a bit more skill than i have to play. or at least a better knowledge of how the pieces interact or work together.
there seems to be some awesome tricksy fun in there. but it all seems hard to pull off. but i guess that can be rewarding in and of itself. dropping sick jank all over the board and losing could be as much if not more fun than piloting a relentless tide.

any tips for overcoming the slowness, or is there no need to cross the board? ie is halfway across the table far enough?

>>48008801
If you don't want to melee, don't bother with Skorne. There's no real overcoming it; Skorne's best shit is all melee.

>>48008940
in a lots of attacks way? or more powerful hits?

i don't understand something, people talk about jamming or something. what is this about?

By the way, we have the first tournament of Mk3 results. Pretty interesting top 5.

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/tournaments/view/103

>>48008984
Jamming is just making your shit engaged so you can't shoot next turn. Nihilators are pretty good at it, but Karax are insanely good at it.

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>>48009011


>that Magnus 2 list

Meme magic is real

>>48009011
>I didn't read the thread

Yeah, 7 factions represented in the top 8 but only one Hordes list. Honestly less spam than I was expecting. "Cryx drop" is probably getting replaced with "gunline drop".

>>48009153
Premeasuring and current scenario designs just make it too strong for gunlines. My god this is fucking atrocious.

>>48008940
>If you don't want to melee, don't bother with Skorne. There's no real overcoming it; Skorne's best shit is all melee.

Might be an over-generalization. Skorne's plan A is usually melee, and their endgame is almost always melee.

Biggest difference now (compared to The Old Days) is that Skorne can bring enough of a shooting game to force many opponents to deal with them in, you guessed it, melee. They're not going to outshoot Cygnar or Ret, but it helps to keep Circle honest.

>>48009153
Dammit, I had searched and everything. Oh well.

>>48009011
>http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/tournaments/view/103

What scenarios did they use? Is the new Steamroller format out? How many tournaments have been run since Mk III rules dropped?

You need more data than that, and I don't see it lasting if they change up tournament formats and slip in errata.

>>48009011

>PoM list isn't even shown

Even in Mk I there were gunlines shooting things up. Any melee of note were bullshit like Idrians or Kayzay.

>>48009011

Interesting that everyone had at least one warjack/warbeast heavy secondary or teritary list. Does 1-2 units of shooting count as 'gunline' now? I think the Cryx list in 6th place had more shooting units overall besides Rhul, if you count gunbunnies.

>>48009332
The new steamroller is out, and he just said the first tournament they posted about. That said, running official mark 3 tournaments before the edition has even officially launched is kinda weird. They've said they'll be day 1 errata to fix errors, so waiting on at keast that much seems like a good idea.

>>48009383
It was, but the scheduling made the con kind of fucky on that. Nobody really wanted to play a Mk2 tournament, so they didn't.

>>48009383

Yeah. I'm not going to make any judgment calls on this edition until we have more feedback and a lot more big tournaments have come and gone. I know people like to make kneejerk reactions about things on a level they will (probably) never play at, but this needs at least a year of development and data collection. And i'm pretty sure they'll errata things and throw out new stuff to mix up the meta like they always do.

But really if you want to bitch about gunlines there IS a 40k general...

>>48006409
this doesn't change the fact that I want a Khadoran Jack with a Jetpack, admittedly it would probably only use the Jetpack to move quicker than your average Khardic 'Jack, but still.

>the gunline fag is back
Learn to read army lists kiddo

>>48009243

Theoretically when the Venator Dakar comes out there stands to one really real gunline list in Skorne with Hex2. He has his battlegroup work as arcnodes to cast Black Spot through, you just have to actually buy all the stuff. Sweetening the pot he has Banishing Ward now.

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>>48009679
>army list contains majority wise guns.
>complains about people complaining about guns
>???

>>48009797
>only 7 out of the 21 lists are gunlines
>complains about gunlines ruining the game
Literally lol

>>48009838
>only 7 out of the 21 lists are gunlines
That is one in every pairing on average.

>>48009878
So? It isn't even a majority.
It makes them a strong option, but not a cancer.

>>48009893

I think you've lost this argument, anon.

>>48009916
Are you retarded? You sound retarded.

>>48009878
You didn't play in any early-Mk2 majority-Cryx tournaments, did you?

Cryx got nerfed, so instead of having an all-comers list and a Cryx list, you take an all-comers and a heavy anti-shooting list. Unfortunately, the competitive game is balanced around list chicken, but it is what it is.

>>48009893
>It isn't even a majority.
It is on average (I haven't checked the divergence) ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF PAIRINGS.

>>48009942
What did I say about Cryx? The answer is nothing.

>>48009995
>It is on average (I haven't checked the divergence) ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF PAIRINGS.

Take a course in statistics before talking about it again. Please.

>What did I say about Cryx? The answer is nothing.

... Analogy is apparently lost on the mentally retarded.

>>48009926

You do actually play this game? One third of lists in a given population is fucking saturated. Point made, now you're being willfully obtuse in an argument on the internet on account if you never actually shut up, you never completely lose. But you have.

>>48010082
So you're saying 100% of lists should be melee run in your face everyone crowd the middle of the board?
Options are bad? People shouldn't have one of their three lists as a gun list?
You're fucking stupid mate.
Each player having one of their three lists a gunline list is players covering bases. It's intelligent decision making. Sorry you want to play one style and don't want to adapt to people shooting at you.

>>48010142

Notice a lot of second or third lists are warjack heavy.

>>48010166
and?

>>48010142
That's what scenarios were designed for so yeah, melee aggression should be what's fostered.

>>48010142

...and there you go again, flailing and circling and strawmanning and throwing inanities that are all over the place...

Hard ranged skew. Successful out of the gate. Functionally total representation. We have a term for that situation and it's "Fucking Gunlines". Time to get salty.

>>48010271
In reality, gunlines in scenarios is all Linebreaker's fault. In fact, those gunline lists were probably all taken just for Line breaker.
I understand what you're trying to say - there's a 100% presence of gunlines in the 7 deck lists shown (except circle lists don't have one, but cygnar has two, but mathematically it comes out to one out of three lists being a gunline skew, thus a mathematical '100%' representation, or something like that.)
However just because it mathematically works out that way doesn't mean that the game is dominated by gunlines. We don't have data on how often those lists were taken, on which scenarios they were taken, so just seeing some lists and seeing that many gunlines and proclaiming "Gunlines are infesting tournament play" is pretty unintelligent.

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>>48010271

So, let's look at the lists taken:

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/players/view/900

Sorcha 1: A pretty pure gunline. A Juggernaut is the only thing that's not shooting or support.

Irusk 2: Two max infantry units without shooting. List is kinda shooting heavy compared to a typical Mk2 list, but I wouldn't call it a gunline.

Strakhov: Two non-shooting heavies, a character unit and a max unit with no shooting. Decidedly not a gunline.

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/players/view/902

Durgen: Holy fuck that's a lot of gunbunnies. Pretty heavy gunline.

Exulon: Has two 3-man units with sprays, and no other ranged attacks other than the caster.

Magnus2: Has five guns in the whole list? Not a gunline.

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/players/view/903

Kaelyssa: Eh, it's heavy on the shooting (again compared to Mk2 lists) but I wouldn't call it a gunline.

Rahn: Gunline.

Issyria: Gunline.


http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/players/view/904

Wurmwood: Clearly not a gunline.

Krueger2: Clearly not a gunline.

Baldur1: Shootier than Circle typically plays, but not a gunline.

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/players/view/905

Denny1: Clearly not a gunline.

Skarre2: Clearly not a gunline.

Scaverous: Clearly not a gunline.

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/players/view/906

Sevvy2: Obvious gunline.

Kreoss1: Obvious gunline (but it's pop-n-drop Kreoss1 for fuck's sake, that's how you play him)

Reznik1: Not really a gunline. Shootier than average, sure.

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/players/view/907

Sloan: Shock, the gunline caster plays a gunline.

Caine2: Obvious gunline.

Haley3: Ehh... I'll give you this one on the Storm Lances + Laddermore all having guns, even if I don't really think of them as shooting units.
So, of the top 7 players in the tournament that we know of:

- 2 Ran no gunlines
- 3 ran two or more gunlines
- 2 ran one gunline

>>48010560
So, yeah. Lots of shooting. Realistically, though:

- This is a three-list event. With shooting generally enhanced in Mk3, Having most lists running at least one shooting skew isn't surprising. I'm not convinced (yet) that this will generalize terribly well to the more common two-list pairings.

- This is, literally, before day 0 errata. Shit's going to change tomorrow, and the meta will shake out pretty quickly. Hell, this result means competitive players are going to start stocking a lot more ranged hate than we saw in Mk2.

Of course, I play Menoth (yay Passage) and Circle (yay most of our good casters pack built-in ranged hate), so I'm probably feeling less concerned than most. But the only surprising thing to me in this is the lack of jackspam.

>>48010621


>lack of Jack spam

Except Mercs, who are exactly as Jack spam as expected although I honestly expected nomads instead of vanguards. Makes sense with all those solos though

>>48001736
FAIR AND BALANCED

A TRUE AND HONEST SYSTEM

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What's the best warcaster and list comp to run my big holy nigga here?

>>48010690

Yeah, the Merc lists just don't look... skewy enough, maybe? 8 blasters instead of gunners says to me the player was expecting a lot more infantry than saw the table... or just didn't have 8 gunners available. Maybe he would have run Nomads if he had the models, or was just expecting a different meta.

>>48010958
100 pts list composition.

I find it maddening that it can't be bought with Warcasters BG points.

Can someone explain to me why?

>>48010560
Well the denny list does have 2 shooting units. I think it qualifies as a gunline

>>48011294

Its not part of the warcaster's battlegroup.

>>48011311
It also has no shooting in the battlegroup and two melee units. The two shooting units make up about a third of the list's points, and nothing else can shoot. Both shooting units are POW 10, and only one has CRA, so it can't really threaten heavies with shooting (sure, a 10-man CRA can hurt them, but you're still looking at 4 turns of shooting to kill a Crusader).

That's not a gunline. That's a balanced list with light shooting for infantry clearing.

First time using the old man, how's this look?

Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 (+28) points

(Severius 1) Grand Scrutator Severius [+28]
- Revenger [10]
Avatar of Menoth [20]
Initiate Tristan Durant [4]
- Redeemer [11]
- Redeemer [11]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Exemplar Errants (max) [16]
- Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard [4]
Knights Exemplar Seneschal [5]

>>48011504
Avatar of Menoth cannot be bought with Warcaster jack points as it is not part of their battlegroup.

>>48011504
You're running 18 points worth of jacks down.

>>48011593

Huh, no wonder it felt so small.

>>48011477
I would argue outside of the collossals we dont have much in the way of shooty battlegroup. Leviathan need no apply

>>48011351
No I meant what kept PP from disallowing BG buffs and benefits but allow you to spend BG points on it.

>>48012173
it's not part of the warcaster's battlegroup...

So, did PP make CRA and "Practically CRA" (Farrow Brigands being treated as if they have CRA because Carver can give it to them etc) cheaper or something?

I was thinking of trying to collect some Minions, particularly pigs, did mk3 make the hogs not suck?

>>48012388


CRA is drastically cheaper

Minions are excellent now

>>48012190
So fluff reasons? Not balance reasons? Got it.

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>Heard you talk shith about Menoth. As I wouldn't find out!

is he finally good? Brand o Heresy seems nice.

Assuming I can get my hands on Mk3 starter, what's a good choice for a complete beginner? Aesthetically I like Cryx, Mercenaries and Legion. Is there much difference between Hordes and Warmachine in terms of learning difficulty? I mean, I get I need to know how both work because I will be playing against them eventually.
I've played couple other wargames before so hopefully I won't take too long to git gud.

>>48012642
>not dickbutt
one job

>>48012718


Hordes will take a little more time to get used to I would imagine.

The mercenaries official battlebox is Magnus1, a mangler and a rover which is excellent for journeyman league stuff as Magnus1 is good by himself and Magnus2 is just absurd.

>>48012718

Most of the battleboxes are pretty similar in terms of ease of getting in to. Hordes is slightly more complex mechanically, but is a bit more forgiving for new players because you generate Fury through your turn, whereas you have to allocate it all at the beginning of the turn in Warmachine.

So it's pretty much a wash.

It's too early in the edition for people to have a really good idea of what's actually good yet. Most people tend to think Warmachine is a bit stronger now, but who knows what the consensus will be by the time you get anything painted.

>>48012642
>Scat to kill

>Now imagining all menoth chants as Scatman song as that is what is pleasing to Menoth
>Scat Jazz Choir of Menoth
>Harbinger's scat is so fast and furious that Menoth is taking her up to the heavens to sing for his divine jam band

DA FUCK PP

THE TIMER JUST FUCKING RESETS

>>47998569
Yep. This is the worst edition change ever.
As noted models were modified so the old power casters are neutered and new casters take their places.
But even the rules: removing paragraphs from the book isn't "streamlining"
It was the perfect chance to modify power attacks, cavalry, charging (can't charge your own models, but can attack them otherwise) actions (define "action" what is a feat, what is a mini feat) All the things.
No these aren't details, these are core game mechanics that are the basis of the game. If these details are overlooked we end up with a pile of shit.

But no. just remove push and arm lock, it'll be fine no one will notice.

Oh what's that, as per RAW you can't charge a KD model anymore?
How the fuck is it even possible to release such crap?

3 years of playtesting? I could have done better over the course of a weekend. fkin srsly.

>>48013091


Cavalry did get modified and is frankly better now, besides ride by attack dependent cav

>>48013041
What are you talking about? The war room timer works just fine for me.

>>48013136
reposition is fine, being able to attack with hoss is fine (but could have been implemented better)

cavalry impact attack thing is an abomination of shit rules.
There's a rulebook, right.
It has basic attacks (melee, shooting, magic spells) special attacks (thresher and shit like that) and power attacks.

Why make up another type of attack that only applies to very few models in corner case applications ??
It's so stupid I can't even !
It could have been simply power attack: trample.
>K.I.S.S.

>>48012642
you need better blends

I used to play me now back in Mark 1. I got out for a little while, then came back in in the middle of Mark to and played mercenaries for a while. Then I got distracted with real life stuff and had to set the game aside for a while. Now Mark 3 is out. So I have some questions about the viability of the units I used to run a lot of.

Has Mark 3 done anything, either positive or negative, who Menite Deliverer units?

Is running Sam MacHorn and the Devil Dogs with Ashlynn and Nomad/Talon pairs and Sam marshalling a bucaneer still viable?

How are Gators looking? I kinda wanted to start a Jaga-Jaga theme list a while back before my break and I'd like to know how she held up.

>>48013232


Because power attack trample would have been a huge nerf as you can't use it with assault and don't get your initials after.

Thresher wouldn't work well either because it would mean giving up your other initials to throw out a 0.5" RNG pow 10.

Impact attacks aren't all that complicated either. Touch a model base2base, attack all models in front arc within 0.5" with the mount. Does not stop charge movement. If you can continue your charge movement after concluding the impact attacks, do so. That's it.

And how could mount attacks have been implemented better? They're just another initial attack now with no STR value. That's as baseline as it gets.

There's plenty to bitch about in mk3 but cavalry are for the most part fine. Except destors

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>>48012999
>Harbinger's scat is so fast and furious that Menoth is taking her up to the heavens

So now that Fist of Halaak is temporarily dead, how is everyone playing Xerxis1?

mk3 full decks pdf where?

>>48013903
I'd just play him as a brick warlock. 26ARM Cetrati, come the FUCK at me.

>>48015281
Happen to have a list you mind tossing up?

>>48015511
>Xerxis1
>Cetrati
>Vorkesh
>Agonizer

>>48015552
That's only 24 ARM.

Imo, Makeda2 runs them better with multiple Stay Deaths per turn.

>>48013091
I would have been happy if casters and options just got back further in line with one another.

There are still always-includes. There are still far and away better casters out there.

I don't mind that some options are better than others, I mind when some options are far and away better than others.


This is the first time I've been truly demoralized by guns in my WMH career. At least back when I played Cryx I could cheese back.

I am going to play some Guild Ball or something whole I mull these changes over. I'm not sure how to deal with that much ranged attrition with list choices in Legion aside from just Hellmouthing everything.

>>48015875
You're making spot checks on caster power before we've figured anything concrete out.

What casters do you define as far and away better without any idea of how shit is going to play out on the table?

>>48015859
tbqh Stay Death should have been moved to Makeda1.

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Anyone have any experience using soul trappers? I recently got a pair and am painting them but have so far yet to include them in any list. They appear to be OK except for the fact that their defensive stats are pure garbage and they require some intense babysitting if your opponent has any ranged attacks. Any tips or thoughts on protecting them?

>>48015875

>Cryx player buttmad his pet faction was rightfully

You don't say.

>>48016257
Keep them screened until you can steal the souls you want.

Most of the time, getting the souls from the trapper is simply a bonus. Removing enemy souls when soul collection is a thing can be a huge benefit to you.

conflictchamber.com updates:

- Permanent links are now much, much more compact
- Permanent links don't flicker the main menu when opened (this was annoying me)
- The copy army list to the clipboard feature now includes a (newly compact) permanent link and displays validation failure

Example:

Protectorate Army - 53 / 75 points

http://conflictchamber.com/#b21b7g0t0v5a1o1o0OeF1t1U269T

!!! Your army must contain at least 99 total points.
!!! Initiate Tristan Durant must have a battlegroup.

(Kreoss 1) High Exemplar Kreoss [+29]
- Reckoner [16]
- Templar [15]
Initiate Tristan Durant [4]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5]
Exemplar Errants (max) [16]
- Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Knights Exemplar Seneschal [5]
The Covenant of Menoth [4]
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4]

>>48016496
Anon, you are doing a fantastic job.

>>48016496
Neat. Thanks anon

Convergence Army - 75 / 75 points

http://conflictchamber.com/#bc1b2x2j2R2l2h2h2h2h2h2O2O2O2T2V2S2r

(Lucant 1) Father Lucant, Divinity Architect [+28]
- Cipher [16]
- Corollary [6]
- Inverter [15]
- Galvanizer [5]
- Galvanizer [5]
- Galvanizer [5]
- Galvanizer [5]
- Galvanizer [5]
Optifex Directive [4]
Optifex Directive [4]
Optifex Directive [4]
Steelsoul Protector [4]
Transfinite Emergence Projector [19]
- Permutation Servitors
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex [2]
Attunement Servitors [4]

I'm trying to decide if MK3 makes the Galvanizer spam worth it with Lucant. Between the price drop, the extra two boxes, the 1" Reach and the new induction rules, they might work as well as an objective holder than Recips, though I'm not sure. They're certainly plenty durable against a lot of traditional shooting, though Recips already were. The big thing is the fuckery of them being 5 different models, fucking with Prey, enemy debuffs and the like. Far more resistant to being jammed as well, and can randomly be better against tough jammers. Can heal each other as well.

And for heavy ranged assassination lists, well, good luck other guy!

What I find odd about these murmurings around the tournament results, is that 7 out of 21 lists are shooty lists, and people complain that there is too much shooting.

Do you get taught math differently in your country?
Based on my limited understanding of this game, no shooting is as powerful as Melee. You can't buy more and more shots, but Melee is only limited by focus/fury - and if I magically have a way of replenishing this then I can do just as many Melee attacks again.

So desu 1/3 shooty sounds like too much fucking Melee!
This is a combined arms game.
Not having a reasonable amount of shooting makes for a dull scrum half way up the board.

Having one nigh-unkillable unit tying up one flank is cool, but if the other flank is the same, then fck me we have a dull game. Which given the available options, this game should not be!

Every army should have mobility (getting across the board fast, ignoring obstacles etc), durability (not getting hit, being able to survive a hit), and lethality (kill all the things) and preferably some tricksy jank to make it all happen when you want it to.
Your shitty infantry with spears get shot off the battlefield again? Do something about it. Change your army to not be a hundred peasants with pikes.
Don't cry about how broken shooting is.

At least not yet...
day zero when?

Picked up my Menoth Battle Box today; I like Malekus. I see his model and say "he looks like a warcaster" very imposing, important looking.

>Cryx players assmad and leaving the game in a huff.
Best edition ever my dudes?

>>48017055
I guess you didn't win against Cryx too much then?

>>48016987
>stare at the castigator that comes in the box
>wish I had reckoner arms

>>48017223

It doesn't come with any? Well shit.

>>48017345
not the battle box one. They come with just the castigator arms

>>48017126
>TAKING THE BAIT
I'm just an RPG guy hoping to start WHM with Zerkova2, so I really don't care in the slightest.

Gotcha!

>>48013550
>>48013550
>How are Gators looking? I kinda wanted to start a Jaga-Jaga theme list a while back before my break and I'd like to know how she held up.

Pretty good. Their Gatorman Posses got worse, but everything else in their faction is pretty good, their casters are all good (I think at a C+ JJ is the worst of the bunch) and they can freely mix with pigs now.

>>48017369

It's fine I like the castigator. Redeemer lost assault and is for little bitches anyway.

>>48017055
Weird, I play Cryx and I havent lost once this edition. I guess I'm doing it wrong

>>48017493
It's still a heavy with an amazing gun, relatively reasonable cost and powerful melee weapon

>>48017584

Little
Bitches

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>>48017493
>>48017642
Assuming you mean the Reckoner, what about it is for little bitches? It has a hell of a bashing stick, that's pretty metal.

>>48017566
It's almost like you'r skilled or something.

>>48017947

> hitting people with a glorified holy dildo isn't gay or for little bitches

> somehow better than punching people with flamethrower fists

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>>48016283
Nah it was rightfully nerfed. I stopped playing Cryx 3 years ago because it was completely impossible to play casual matches with them. I'm not a tournament caliber player, nor aspired to be one.

Switched over to Menoth and Legion for their battlegroup heavy focus (AKA the original reason I bothered with the game)

The only thing I miss is dicking over funkiness with super speedy troops with Cryx.

The way things feel right now is so range heavy that unless I play my Menoth forces...I feel pretty powerless to ranged attrition. That's my current gripe with the system right now.

>>48016033
I've seen nothing but the same 2 casters for every faction ad nauseum for the last 2 weeks of heavy playing from a fairly large meta. The only silver lining is that it wasn't Haley2 forever in Cygnar.

This is the first time I've seen a race to OP before and it didn't happen in my area with MKII from MKI. I feel more an outsider than ever now. It's an odd feeling considering I'm the oldest player here.

I'm just tuning it out until things die down and people start experimenting a bit more with what works best for them and their playstyle instead of trailblazing the next era of stagnation.

I'm really hoping PP doesn't mess up theme forces...I can see that getting db real quick all over again.

>>48018076
Funny, I'm from one of the largest metas in the country and people and playing shit all over the place.

It's almost like your personal experiences aren't reflective of the game as a whole.

Also, good job not answering my question.

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>>48017983
I got to do that jack spam thing w/ venethrax, it was cool

>>48014430
Your like a month late anon

>>48018168
Stand outs so far are:

Kara Sloan, Haley 3, Caine2
Severity1, Kreoss1
Denegrah1
Khador players actually were all over the place so their cool I guess.

Legion Players are scrambling to try other shit to make their infantry work
Circle sticking with Morvahna2
Main Minion player switched to Ret for Rahn and Issyria.
Skorne players are stuck on Mak3 for some reason... so I can't explain that.

Your meta has cool folks.... I'm pretty sure my meta is just waiting on netlists from DGI to drop at this point...

It's cool... I just wish my buds didn't drop this game a few years back.

>>48018799
Makeda3 wasn't bad in MkII. And going into MkIII, she just replaced Sunhammer (which is a useless spell, especially on a FURY 6) with an upkeep spell that gives Overtake and Grevious Wounds. So she flat out just got better. Plus the whole dead warbeasts = Fury thing helped her late game.

It's their version of Butcher3 - you get to just go in and fuck shit up and the simplicity is fun.

>>48018799
Sloan is going to be a pop and drop caster, if she doesn't get nerfed. Mk2 had pop and drops, and they had their own issues.

Caine2 got some subtle, but pretty big nerfs in terms of not dying horrible. Not being able to camp to avoid incidentally getting murdered is a big problem for him.

Denny1 got nerfed, even if it wasn't super strongly. She doesn't get to remove an entire enemy unit from any impact on the game anymore, which is a big deal for her.

Sevvy1 still has old man stats(and can't camp to save himself anymore) and lost the bite of his feat. Kreoss1 got some anti-hordes tech with the change to animi, but he's otherwise not that much different, and the Purify change is a thing.

>>48018854
I think Mak3's problem in Mk3 is Karn's animius nerf. She can't abuse her melee spell anymore, using Fate Walker to move away at the end of the turn, and that's a real issue for her, I think.

>>48018913

Sevvy1 had a feat? When did this happen?

>>48018913
Yeah, Fate Walker is a loss. I mean, if you were desperate you could pick up an Archidon but I wouldn't recommend it.

Is the errata out?

>>48000000

GLORIOUS

>faith restored

>>48015859
The Agonizer's bubble gives enemy models -2STR which I'm basically counting at +2ARM. Agonizers and Cetrati go so well together that it may as well be a 2nd UA. Gnawing Pain keeps them alive, and Repulsion lets them get a charge in. And if you're feeling frisky, you can also not worry about the Agonizer frenzying and just leave it way off in a flank with a Willbreaker since there's no way it's going to hurt your Cetrati with a frenzy. Last game I did just that. My Agonizer frenzied and punched Vorkesh in the back, who looked around to see where that slight gust of wind had come from.

>>48018799

what kind of haley3 lists are people putting down?

>>48013654

To this day whenever i put down stormlances onto the table and a retribution player asks me their melee range and i tell them reach, and then they freak out and ask if they have the lance rule or not.

pfft, silly ret players, why would storm LANCES have the lance rule? go back to using your shitty destors

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>>48010560
>Kreoss1: Obvious gunline (but it's pop-n-drop Kreoss1 for fuck's sake, that's how you play him)

no anon you are the bait

>>48011477

Except in denny pow 10 is actually a pow 15 once parasite and feat go down. Thats going to end a heavy pretty damn quickly

>>48009231
>Premeasuring and current scenario designs just make it too strong for gunlines.
That and most shooting options getting buffed.

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Game played tonight. Me Cryx versus friend's Ret.

Ran acr node up inside stealth range on mage hunters, bukakke of corruption aoes into the group killed all but three. Bane warriors set up charge screen for the halberdiers, lost a few at first, Kaelyssa feated preventing the charge but BLT and Warriors walked in, BLT and UA's mini feat brought them and more back, reduced halberdiers to under half. Eiryss disrupted deathjack but got some AOEs to the face. Phoenix got several of the bane knights but ended up getting picked apart by them since they had Scything Touch (dark shroud) on them. Arc nodes got blapped, rushed cankerworm straight up to Kaelyssa with a run+reposition, sacrificed to force the big jacks to focus on it. Now that deathjack was getting focus again, he slammed a heavy jack straight over Kaelyssa, knocking her down as well as doing some damage even with powerfield. Pistol wraith (who had been missing every second shot so far) has an easy target in the knocked down warcaster and easily pings her twice for stationary but no damage due to power field. Kaelyssa shakes all effects and moves away from encroching bane warrior horde and blocks deathjack with heavy jacks. Deathjack picks up hydra and throws onto Kaelyssa, doing enough damage to end her.

I had fun because I got to use Slam and Throw power attacks for the first time.

>>48016033
>You're making spot checks on caster power before we've figured anything concrete out.
Fuck your shit.

When the insiders came out, you guys said "wait for the full rules". And I waited.

When the leaks came out, you guys said "wait for the full rules". And I waited.

When the rules were released, you guys said "you don't know how it plays yet". And I played.

And now you want us to wait for what exactly? I have played the game and seen it played. I have seen how broken MK3 is and far better players than me have confirmed it.

>>48019955

>Daughters of the Flame

They actually good with Kreoss? I never tried it. Could be nice with Defender's Ward and Stealth.

>>48016974
>So desu 1/3 shooty sounds like too much fucking Melee!
Too much melee in a supposedly melee-focussed game? Also, those 7 lists are almost exclusively shooting, the other lists also include ranged elements.

>>48018283
>jack spam thing w/ venethrax
Pretty counterable though.

>>48020639

>It has to be exclusively melee units to not count toward my anti-gunline bias!

Fuck off.

>>48020590
For a fucking meta to develop. Good players are just as bad as evaluating things at times as well. Until you actually put shit on the table to see how it goes, lots of shit can seem far more powerful than it is.

Like, I don't think people have really understood how easy Caine dies yet. He's threatened by boosted blast damage, for gods sake.

>>48020631
much like eKreoss, having 2 or 3 auto hit and auto wound attacks are never bad. Plus def 16 is solid, if not the def 18 they often were in mk2.

Only problem is that if you bring a redeemer or deliverers you might accidentally scatter into them

>>48019011
>Sevvy1 had a feat?
His feat was back-breaking in MK2. Especially in the matchups you took him for, like Haley3.

>>48020663

eh, not unless you have a lot of it. new reinforcing rules with focus help him a lot. hes ARM 13 but hes effectively ARM 18 for 1-2 hits if he just camps 1-2. thats far better than mk2 where having 1-2 foc just meant arm 14 or 15.

on top of that bringing a jr and a charger / hunter is not a bad option and gives you access to arcane shield for your army, and if needed it can just be put on Caine to make him a 17/16

Caine does die easily, but not to boosted blast damage unless hes emptied his stack or you have a LOT of boostable blasts

>>48020663
>Like, I don't think people have really understood how easy Caine dies yet. He's threatened by boosted blast damage, for gods sake.
Not as easily as in MK2. And it wasn't an issue back then.

>>48020654
Can you not read? The seven lists countedare ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ranged. The others CONTAIN RANGED ELEMENTS.

Is this so fucking hard?

>>48020702
Gunline edition, remember?

And yea, the boosted blast damage might not straight up kill him, but you're forcing him to burn focus to stop from taking damage on it. That's super dangerous for him.

>>48020723
In Mk2 he hid in the back and camped to near full every turn until he got an assassination vector, leaving him usually sitting at 17/17. Now he wants to be forward enough to shoot and do stuff, and even gatecrashing back long range shooting is going to fucking make him cry.

How's the MK2 convergence box army with the MK3 rules/stats? Does it line up well with the other MK3 boxes?

>>48020755
>In Mk2 he hid in the back and camped to near full every turn
Not if the Cygnar player knew what he did. Good players always only used the assassination threat to zone the enemy caster out. They got plenty of work out of him every turn with bought shots and gatecrasher. After akll, the best defense is distance.

>>48020738
yeah. and can't you count?

seven out of how many?

>ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY
so melee as well.

in other words every single list had melee elements.

>oh fuck, game is dead
>melee skew fucking everything up
>hand-to-hand combat meta OP

>>48020790
>n other words every single list had melee elements.
Yes. It's kind of hard to make a list without melee weapons in it. I don't know if that is even possible at all.

But then again you are just being facetious and I shoulpd stop wasting my time with illiterate fucks like you.

>>48020788
>knew what he did
"knew what he was doing" is what I meant to write.

>>48020788
I can't speak from too much experience on that part, I played Lucant with a TEP and a PA. If he got close enough to me, I just straight up killed him, and he couldn't zone me for shit.

I just know he's that much easier for me to kill now.

>>48020769
Off the top of my head, it comes out to like -1 points. The new MK3 BB for CoC is Syntherion, Monitor, Diffuser, Galvanizer.

>>48020826
>I played Lucant with a TEP and a PA
Well you're not going to see much Caine2 with that. At least not in Mk2. He might have some game against Lucant in Mk3, now that he can trivially remove all your repair dudes and hope to sit out your feat.

>>48020848
I've got 9 shield guards now, so I dunno. Yea, I lose my support, but he has zero chance of killing me with his feat.

>>48020878
Though Given the changes, I might drop Mother into Cyngar now

>>48020653
....and? What isnt. Its not like I dont have 2 other lists.

In anycase most things are in preliminary testing. I just want to get the beats down.

>>48020438
sounds like a good game. If you had a warwitch siren you could have gotten rid of disruption. Also you know Scything Touch only effects one modle now, right? Not the whole unit

>>48021016
I've been thinking about getting some more Cryx since what I played was about 80% of what I own for Cryx.

And about Scything Touch, so it does. That really sucks. Makes it seem not worth nearly as much. Wouldn't have changed the game since only one model needs it to apply the debuff for everyone. Gaspy always had leftover focus that could have been used for re applying it anyways.

>>48019955
Kreoss1's feat feels game-warping. Like, you have to play in a really retarded way to not outright die to it. I wish they'd changed the rules for knocked down models so they still had a LOS blocking volume but the volume was lower.
>Small base models = Flat
>Medium base models = 1"
>Large base models = 2.5"
Something like that, so you can't shoot over the elephant's ass just because it's on the floor.

>>48021165
There's enough steady models or ways to block LOS around now that his feat isn't that powerful for assassination anymore.

>>48020878
>I've got 9 shield guards
I don't think Caine2 gives a damn Anyway, when it comes to shooting, I'd be more afraid of Khador than Cygnar anyway.

>>48021165
Model volume is insignificant when considering LoS over intervening models. So do you propose counting knocked down models like terrain? Because that is just overcomplicated.

>>48021016
>....and? What isnt.
Absolutely true. I'm just saying that if you're playing nothing but that list and you have only won, you probably haven't run into its counters yet.

>>48021165
you just have to adjust playing. Best bet is to push his shit in so he pops feat to save his bacon.

MK3 Khador = MK2 Cryx

I played MK2 eGaspy Banes 3 times, it felt stupid good to the point where it wasn't even fun and my opponent and friends hated it because it was lame and op.

I played MK3 eIrusk 3 times, it felt exactly the same because there was no challenge except this time my opponent told me he got outplayed (he couldn't do shit) & my friends told me I'm so good and my list is so sick!

Cryxhate turned people blind to stupidity

>>48021272
Yeah Khador is dumb now.

>>48021192
>>48021241
I suppose Kreoss1 isn't so bad considering I'm gonna be using Makeda1 and Cetrati + Vorkesh. If I bring a Krea as well I can just march a wall of 15DEF shields down the field with Makeda behind them that you can't damage with blasts.

>>48021286
Best part is they're not alone, it's a treatment that a few warmachine factions got while the rest got left out.

Try proxying a game of Amon Ad-Raza jackspam. Even if you've never played Menoth, it's beyond dumb. Same thing with Testament and 2 full units + ua of Iridian Skirmishers + Exemplar Errants + ua. All advanced deployment, all assault with a feat that turns it all incorporeal and lets them ignore LOS.

Playtested for 3 years

>>48021323
I don't doubt that there's a very good reason why only 1 Hordes faction made the top 8 of that tournament.

>>48021272
MK2 Cryx would fit MK3 perfectly, where MK3 Cryx would fit MK2 perfectly. They mixed that shit up.

>>48021316
The rifle corps laughs at your DEF15. Especially under Vlad.

>>48021338
How about 20ARM with tough?

>>48021332
In fact, I would argue that all the "nerfed" factions from MK2 would fit in with the new MK3 gods (Cygnar, Khador, Menoth, Retribution and Mercs I guess?)

>>48020438
Can't reposition after a run, anon

>>48021229
Yea, I outshoot Khador where it matters, so I don't give a damn.

>>48020826
So the MK3 journeyman set for Convergence requires I buy the MK2 BB, and like two more models and the cards? shit.

>>48021330
because PP took off their floaties and now they need to swim on their own?

>>48021390
I mean, the Mk3 BB is just a suggestion. If you own the Mk2 box, just play that shit. The models in the MK3 box are shit you're likely to end up with, but if your PG makes an issue out of this, he's an asshole.

>>48021394
They took them and gave em to Cygnar, Khador and Menoth

>>48021394
>Warmachine factions were the best in Mk2
>They're still the best in Mk3
>"HURR HORDES PLAYERS JUST NEVER GOT GUD"

>>48021332
>MK2 Cryx would fit MK3 perfectly, where MK3 Cryx would fit MK2 perfectly.
It's funny how right you are.

>>48021323
>Playtested for 3 years
Playtested by 3 guys in a basement for 4 hours while consuming large amounts of alcohol.

Spread out over the course of 3 years.

>>48021345
Yeah, still laughing.

Should I buy a second unit of Vengers for Kreoss 3?

>>48013654
So what if you can't use other special attacks after a trample? It's a fucking power attack. Being able to attack multiple models isn't enough?
When working on base game mechanics you don't grind to a halt when "oh no, specific rules interaction doesn't work!! what on earth shall i do?! We're all doomed!!"
You didn't think that power attacks could be modified too, especially given that I also said power attacks require re-working?

You say impact attacks are nice and simple, then attempt to sum it up, and fail because you missed out half of it. Same for mount attacks "just another initial" ? No. If it was, it wouldn't be so bad.

You seem to know nothing about game mechanics other than "but but muh faction iz nerfd boo hoo"

>>48013550
Deliverers? They got nerfed, they are quite possibly worse than they have ever been.

Sam mchorne is decent now and useable.

>>48022128
How did they get nerfed?

They're cheaper and they traded Rocket Volley for plain old CRA, which is far better for them.

I don't know if they're good, granted, but they certainly didn't get worse.

>>48022141
Oh, POW8.

I dunno, I still think they came out better off. Mk2 versions never got played because they did nothing that was worth it you couldn't do somewhere else, new ones at least provide cheap CRA shots for decent POW damage.

>>48019945
Yes, the lance rule is currently insufficient.
Either:
a) remove the lance rule
b) keep the lance rule, but make it so that it's actually worth having. Pow16 lances for a single charge isn't worth it. A lance has to worth it, otherwise they wouldn't bother using it.
It could KD, slam, impale several models? arm piercing? any good rule and ability could make the lance rule worth it.
I suppose they almost got it right with all cavalry charge attacks being boosted, but even that is lacklustre when cygnar stormlances (no lance rule) are compared to uhlans (lance rule) for example.

So yeah, one more missed opportunity there Jason.

>>48022152
Yeah you found it. POW 8 on a direct hit. The problem being that they are effectively RAT 1 if they move.
So even with aiming, the only way to actually hit any target (let's go for def12) is to CRA, so they might be cheap, but they won't do anything. Nothing a Redeemer or two sunburst crews cannot do better.

and LOL POW 8 on a direct hit is POW 4 blast...Even nyss hunters scoff at that shit.

It's as if they had this initial idea:
"Hey guise, guise; let's make everything have lower POW, then WJs will become better because infantry won't be able to one round them !?"
"That makes infantry good against infantry too !"
"so charging will actually make a difference!!"
then someone said something like "b-but, m-muh faction boo hoo"
and they promptly forgot about the idea and we get left with a half baked piece of shit, where some things have reduced pow, but not everything. Notably guns and other ranged weapons escaped the find/replace.

SOMEONE PLS SHARE FACTION PDFS

>>48020438
>run+reposition
Running prevents reposition.

BTW are the pp forums down (again) ?

>>48022252
I dunno man, a 2 5 man CRAs with them produce POW13 shots at RAT6, POW14/RAT7 with Sevvy1.

That might not be the best shooting in the world, I'll grant you, but for 13 points it's certainly not the worst, either. The Sunburst does hit harder, but it's got their same victim stats and is far more trivial to remove.

Even with POW8, they still feel like they might actually see table time compared to before.

>>48022319
10 good men shooting is rat 11, pow 18, aoe 14 at 16" without the 6" movement countet in. Thats far from being bad.

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>>48022678
>Spending a ton of points on a single mediocre shot per turn

>>48022678
>>48022319
How long do you expect those Deliverers to last?
The only thing Deliverers have going for them is that they are so shit they don't pose a threat so the opponent may well ignore them.
But once they start losing troopers, the unit is worthless. They go from 2 "meh" shots to a single "meh" shot and from there become absolutely useless.

As cheap souls maybe? but choir is still cheaper and zealots do it better.
Nope guys, although it's nice to want to stick up for them, they're worse than in Mk2, and they were bad then.
If they had high explosive [8] they would be okay.
If they had stayed exactly the same, but gained normal CRA they would have been OK.
But no, they got kicked in the balls again. Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3, we can only hope in Mk4 they actually become decent.

>>48022260
download WHAC, it has been updated with all the cards.

>>48023156
>it has been updated with all the cards.
HAPPENING

>>48023156
it has?
thanks for the heads up!!

>>48023180
>>48023175
>>48023156
yo niggas, try this:
http://charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk

>>48023280
Is this a full thing or just an update?

>>48023355
It's a complete apk I would assume.

>>48023280
I assume weapon range will be added soon?