Warhammer 40k General

How's my list (It's only for vs Tau and Eldar):
>Points
1k

>Game-mode
Probably Maelstrom or some other type of objectives

>Casual or Competitive
Just tired of losing to Tau and Eldar

>Chapter
Ultramarines

>Primary detachment:
CAD (330pt)

>HQ (90pt)
Librarian (90pt)
-lvl 2 mastery
-force axe

>Troops (240pt)
2 Tactical squads of the following form (120 pts each):
-Plasma gun
-Drop pod

>Secondary detachment:
Skyhammer fuck you force (670pt)

>Fast attack (180pt)
2 Assault Squads (90pt each):
-1 flamer
-Jump packs

>Heavy support (490pt)
2 Devastator squads (245pts each)
-4 grav guns
-Drop pod

>Spell school for librarian:
I don't know yet. I'm thinking of Telepathyfor Invis (no fun allowed) or Librarius (more no fun allowed). With a mastery level 2 psyker, I don't really know to be honest.

Thanks in advance.

File: image.jpg (886KB, 1006x1216px) Image search: [Google]

886KB, 1006x1216px

Can this Primarch-sized astartes really slay Daemons better than Kaldor Draigo?

>>47919448
The fact that I don't play makes me less biased than you, because you play Tau in a discussion about Tau.

How's the Militarum Tempestus Start Collecting set? I was thinking of using the Scions as Space Marine Scouts because the actual Scout models suck balls.

File: image.jpg (149KB, 640x975px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 640x975px

>>47919494
Statline for reference.

>>47919501
I don't play tau. Just stop posting, I mean you don't even play nigga haha.

>>47919494
Kardan Stronos can out melee Horus so why not.

>>47919494
I'm not buying it. I dont consider the absurd Drago lore to be canon either.

>>47919517
>>47919501

Your're
both faggots for using this general to continue with your scat fetish.

>>47919494
no, have you read his stats? he could put up a decent fight against a herald though but it looks like you fell for the 1d4 meme

>>47919465
damn, i really like those metal effects. it's a step above my washing method

>>47919537
What? I'm not even part of the discussion about Tau or Space Marines or the guy that doesn't even play.

I bought some tanks. Should they be IG or heretics?

>>47919538
>have you read his stats?
Nah mate, why I'm asking. Need to see if it's true or not.

Am hoping it's true.

File: smug head tilt extreme.jpg (63KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 1280x720px

>>47919517
>I don't play Tau

>>47919510
>T4 without EW
>3+
>Only useful rule is gimped Fleshbane
>Costs more than a Leman Russ

File: 1446252522134.png (61KB, 350x584px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 350x584px

>>47919565
>I don't play

space marines are balanced and skyhammer is balanced if used against tau/eldar faggot scum.

>>47919590
>I don't even

File: image.jpg (986KB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

986KB, 3264x2448px

>>47919502
If you put a different head on the Scouts they arent that bad. I used Elysian heads on mine, they look ok I guess. I have 10 Blood Angels Scouts, they always carry out their mission without hesitation.

>>47919606
>using skyhammer
>calling other people scum
>bringing your list and dire need to be accepted for using skyhammer into a new general
nice one lad.

File: draigo statline.png (643KB, 1011x485px) Image search: [Google]

643KB, 1011x485px

>>47919559
Alberec is the kinda guy that Skulltaker would casually slay while having fond thoughts about Draigo.

>>47919565
>>47919551
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRflSSrg6rY

Who's the leader of the general that's made for you and me?
F-a-g-g-o-t A-n-o-n-e
Hey there, Hi there, Ho there! You're not welcome as can be!
F-a-g-g-o-t A-n-o-n-e

Faggot anon! (Shit post!)
Mickey Mouse! (Shit post!)
Forever let us bump out threads up high, high, high, high!

Come along and sing a song and join the shitpost spree!
F-a-g-g-o-t A-n-o-n-e

File: 1451740007487.jpg (332KB, 1280x1280px) Image search: [Google]

332KB, 1280x1280px

>>47913133
>>47913133
Anyone got insight on this?

Thanks

>>47919652
i dont even play space marines

File: emberassed.png (482KB, 626x698px) Image search: [Google]

482KB, 626x698px

>>47919606
Nah dude, you gotta play CAD otherwise you're a faggot who is WAACs.

In fact, even CAD is WAACs.

Just play Unbound bro. Otherwise you are WAACs.

I called someone WAACs for using a formation. Am I c-cool enough to p-p-post with you guys?

>>47919676
>>47919679
F-a-g-g-o-t A-n-o-n-e

>>47919656
>>47919691
Settle down, ok?

>>47919679
>haha waacfags don't exist, and by god if you play spacemarines you definitely can't be a waacfag

>>47919691
this isnt reddit kiddo. there are no upvotes and downvotes here

>>47919626
I really like the paint scheme and helmets, I guess I just don't like how scouts kinda look hunched over which is a model problem and not really something a good paintjob can fix. thought I'd try out scions since they're relatively cheap with that new start collecting box.

File: image.gif (485KB, 292x323px) Image search: [Google]

485KB, 292x323px

>>47919679
>I'm so above you guys, check me out as I laugh at your foolish game.
>Also I'm into little girl anime

>>47919557
What?
Are you serious?
Astra Militarum of course.
Renegades and heretics is such a confusing army.

>>47919734
Does that mean you're into little girls non-anime?

>>47919724
>>47919734
It's just a game, bro.

File: 1463595108764.jpg (72KB, 500x376px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 500x376px

>>47919728
>Ha, Ill show you by claiming ur from le reddit.

>>47919626
They look nice. With this post you are allowed to be proud of them

WHOA! Check out my list guys. (Don't worry though it's only against those SpaceMarine and Tau scum xD) Don't worry it isn't waac because those other factions are just scum! Remember I'm not a waacfag.

1850
Windrider Host

Skyrunner Farseer Shard of Anaris (Remnant of Glory) Singing spear Skyrunner Eldar Jetbike

Skyrunner Warlock Conclave Brotherhood of Psykers , Communion of Minds

Jetbike Vyper Squadron Shuriken cannon, Shuriken cannon

Windriders 6x Windrider with Scatter laser

Windriders 5x Windrider with Scatter laser

Windriders 3x Windrider with Scatter laser
Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Scatter laser, Two Heavy Wraithcannons Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Scatter laser, Two Heavy Wraithcannons Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Ghostglaive and Scattershield Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Ghostglaive and Scattershield Ancient Doom

>>47919626
how easy were the heads to replace? seperate bits? or cutting involved

>>47919757
>says the taufag

>>47919772
Underrated post.

>>47919757
>Ha, Ill show you by greentexting with a reaction image

At least I don't do the latter.

File: image.jpg (1MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3264x2448px

>>47919733
I have some Scions too, just about done painting a Kill Team of them. Way better models than Scouts.

>>47919772
No lie though, I just read through this, and it is actually WAAC cancer unlike the skyhammer lists we've been seeing.

>>47919752
Not the same guy, high-horse-anon.

>>47919803
Ooh! Then I can ask you a question: how much of a scale/size difference is there between a Scout and a Scion? Before I drop the money on a Start Collecting box I really wanna know if they at least look the same size...or close to it.

>>47919810
Really I think they are both cancer. No lie though xD.

File: GSskater.jpg (5MB, 2250x3767px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 2250x3767px

>all these angry comments
>i'm just over here doing my exalted seeker chariots so I can go bully the local grey knight player tomorrow

>>47919821
Why would it be the same guy? They're both quoting the same post.

Use your head?

>>47919745
I only had a brief look but they didn't seem any more confusing than ig

>>47919781
Just FW resin heads for Elysians. Simple swap no modeling involved.

>>47919502
>How's the Militarum Tempestus Start Collecting set?
Are you asking about the rules or what? The formation bonus they get is by far the best out of all the boxes, although Eldar is probably the strongest box overall.

>>47919826
No lie but nice opinion you got there. No lie btw. Here I'll add a XD so you know I'm totally unfazed and not shaking with fury as I type this.

>28/52 posts hidden
This general is off to a great start. T

>>47919870
>Announcing hidden posts
You're worse than them.

>>47919810
WHOA, your right anon. Here's my non-cancerous list. This one actually isn't waac because I said so, and many other people more important than you have also said so. So yeah it's not waac.

1850
Windrider Host

Skyrunner Farseer Skyrunner Eldar Jetbike

Skyrunner Warlock Conclave Brotherhood of Psykers , Communion of Minds

Jetbike Vyper Squadron Shuriken cannon, Shuriken catapults

Windriders 3x Windrider with Scatter laser

Windriders 3x Windrider with Scatter laser

Windriders 3x Windrider with Scatter laser

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Scatter laser, Two Heavy Wraithcannons Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Scatter laser, Two Heavy Wraithcannons Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Ghostglaive and Scattershield Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Ghostglaive and Scattershield Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Ghostglaive and Scattershield Ancient Doom

>>47919854
I'm more just talking about the bits included in it. Like cool stuff that comes with the Taurox, HQ, and Scions. I was thinking of using Scions as 30k Recon Scouts and it's a really good deal to buy the Start Collecting instead of 10 Scions on their own.

>>47919870
nobody cares

how good is my army

1850

Skytyrant Swarm (360pts)
Gargoyle Brood [10x Gargoyle]
Gargoyle Brood [10x Gargoyle]
Hive Tyrant; Desiccator Larvae, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms x2, Wings, Electroshock Grubs

Skytyrant Swarm (360pts)
Gargoyle Brood [10x Gargoyle]
Gargoyle Brood [10x Gargoyle]
Hive Tyrant; Desiccator Larvae, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms x2, Wings, Electroshock Grubs

Skytyrant Swarm (360pts)
Gargoyle Brood [10x Gargoyle]
Gargoyle Brood [10x Gargoyle]
Hive Tyrant; Desiccator Larvae, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms x2, Wings, Electroshock Grubs

Skytyrant Swarm (360pts)
Gargoyle Brood [10x Gargoyle]
Gargoyle Brood [10x Gargoyle]
Hive Tyrant; Desiccator Larvae, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms x2, Wings, Electroshock Grubs

Skytyrant Swarm (360pts)
Gargoyle Brood [10x Gargoyle]
Gargoyle Brood [10x Gargoyle]
Hive Tyrant; Desiccator Larvae, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms x2, Wings, Electroshock Grubs

>>47919905
It's WAAC.

>>47919881
>Condemning Condemning posts.
You're worst than them.

>>47919905
Pretty good and not waac. Check out my eldar list built to kill SpaceMarines and Tau scum >>47919884. It isn't waac either.

>>47919919
>Hands shaking with such rage that he can't even type properly!

File: image.jpg (953KB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

953KB, 3264x2448px

>>47919822
Theyre pretty much the same size and scale. They could work as scouts but the weapon swaps might get tricky. The HS lasguns could pass for sniper rifles, bolters would require a little work.

>>47919955
wow those are pretty much the same size. do they all come with the same base size too? I guess I didn't realize scouts never upgraded to the big boy marine bases. yeah I'd probably run them as snipers...I really appreciate you taking that pic for me. it helps a lot!

>>47920002
>Using Sniper Scouts

I want to do this but the sniper rifle profile hurts my soul.

>>47920002
Yeah they have the same size base. No prob man have fun with the Scion kit, it's one of my favorites so far.

1500 points. Devs go sit in ruins with the Inquisitors and the Lib for 2+ cover and shitloads of rerolls and no scatter. Khan scouts everyone up and shits around with the Command Squad, alternately trolling with relentless grav and spamming HoW + H&R. Rhinos cap points and let the Marines gunline up, plasma guns killing stuff. White Scars devs either add more lascannons or melta stuff. Speeder JSJs around with the Stormlance special rules, blapping things with melta or the launcher (depending on range) and hopefully getting out of LoS on the D6".

Stormlance Battle Demi Company - 975

White Scars Tactics

HQ - Kor'Sarro Khan - 150
Moondrakken

Command Squad - 240
Bikes
Storm Shields
Gravguns
Apothecary

Tactical Squad - 85
Plasma Gun
DT: Rhino - 35

Tactical Squad - 85
Plasma Gun
DT: Rhino - 35

Tactical Squad - 85
Plasma Gun
DT: Rhino - 35

Devastators - 110
2x Lascannons/4x Multi Melta
DT: Rhino - 35

Land Speeder - 80
Multi Melta
Typhoon Launcher
Inquisition Detachment

2x Ordo Malleus Inquisitor - 110
Hellrifles
Liber Heresius
5x Servo skulls

Elites - 35
5x Boltgun Acolytes
1x Psyker


Raven Guard Allied Detachment - 380

HQ - Librarian - 125
ML 2
Armor of Shadows

TROOPS - Scout Squad - 55

HEAVY SUPPORT - Devastators - 200
4x Plasma Cannons
+5 Marines

>>47919839
Talking about IA13 here, no idea of the other ones.
First of a lot of options are unlocked only when your Head-Honcho is the Warlord. That gives you loads of trouble in games with multiple players. Furthermore it means, many options are mutually exclusive, as you can only have 1 warlord. Unfortunatly these are the really interesting things. Squads with more than 20dudes(mutants, things, whatever), Grenadiers a.k.a. pseudoscions, marauders (mercenaries)....
Another problem is that some options used without a secod thought on IG models are not allowed, for example an officer with a boltgun. Bad news for people like me who have the old metal IG.
The squad option list is all over the place, sometimes you pay 10pts for a single extra body (guardsman stat), sometimes 3.
Morale is d6+4 so you have to take notes Can aslo mean 5. So with one dice roll you are screwed big.

Every squad has access to different things, sometimes they cannot get a plasmagun, sometimes no melta or no heavy weapons.

Most IG-stuff can upgrade their BS from 2 to 3 for a fixed cost, making larger squads more attractive.

There are no orders, so IG is simply better most of the time.

some weapons have different stats based on what book you have (Colossus siege mortar has 8 in ia13, 6 in the 5th ed. ig codex...)

Quite a lot of rules and statlines are simply missing or found in 'other publications'. This includes Vanquisher cannon, coaxial stubber etc. (battlescribe helps here!)

On the plus side it has sooo much potential for weird stuff. Make a mutant army, an army of hereteks. An army of small elite groups of soldiers. Most squads can get dedication to one of the 4 gods, giving them boni. You have naturally FW goodies in there, autocannon chimera turrets, Leman russ annihilator, access to a rather weird selection of the FW tanks. (Some you can get access to, but the rules are elsewhere.....). A baneblade is ok, variants are not. Also book gives CSM goodies

>>47920174
>2x Lascannons/4x Multi Melta
I'm sorry, what?

You can only have 4 heavy weapons. Are you saying EITHER 2 lascannons or 4x multi melta?

>>47920210
Yes, either, not sure which I want yet but same points cost.

>>47920221
lascannons. multimelta that sit in ruins are out of range most of the time, making them rather pointless. Depending on where suitable ruins are, of course but soo often they are more in your backfield

Say I have a Gladius that is using bike squads instead of assault squads. They're the only bike units in the army. Would it be a good idea to give two of my librarians in my conclave bikes in case I want to attach them?

>>47920248

the melta devs would be scouting up as far as possible and then trying to pop something first turn.

Though now that I think about it, only two fire points, I may just take las and sit em in back.

>>47920013
>15 pts Heavy 1 Precision Shots, Sniper, Rending, Pinning, Turbo-Penetrator Rounds

>>47920263
Gladius, conclave....

Maybe its a good idea to rethink what you want from the game

>>47920263
Give it to all of your libs if you're going for competitive. T5 helps, and the extra mobility too.

>>47920273
Think about something else.
What will your multimeltas do, if you are unlucky and roll the short table edge deployment zones or something similar where the enemy is further away.

>>47920273
They will only be in melta range if you go second. Then you have to hope that something worth killing comes into range and doesn't kill your guys first.

>>47920296
Not any Librarians that will be going into majority T4 units.

>>47920317
They wont neccessarily need to be in melta range. Between 12 and 24 inches they spit 4 S8 Ap1 which is threatening enough to most things.

>>47920289
A group of friends that likes playing with formations and strong bonuses!

Oh wait, that's already what I have!

>>47920296
Well the list isn't super competitive, it has no grav in it at all and the aux choice is a 10th company task force with 3 squads of sniper scouts.

>>47920336
helps them with instand death weapons. Hello battlecannon.
also the mobility is still something to consider.

Another option would be termi-armor as it is discount-price for libbies and brings an invul

>>47920341
That's not going to be enough to earn their points back in one turn, though. And they'll probably be a top priority for shooting.

>>47920370
Isn't ID also calculated with majority toughness, or is it only to wound?

>>47920518
Instant death is per model.

Rate my 1850 point list, /tg/

Skitarii Detachment (340 pts)
- 5x Vanguard [55 pts] + 5x Vanguard [55 pts] + Plasma Obliterator [230 pts]

Skitarii Detachment (340 pts)
- 5x Vanguard [55 pts] + 5x Vanguard [55 pts] + Plasma Obliterator [230 pts]

Skitarii Detachment (340 pts)
- 5x Vanguard [55 pts] + 5x Vanguard [55 pts] + Plasma Obliterator [230 pts]

Skitarii Detachment (340 pts)
- 5x Vanguard [55 pts] + 5x Vanguard [55 pts] + Plasma Obliterator [230 pts]

Skitarii Detachment (350 pts)
- 5x Vanguard [55 pts] + 5x Rangers [65 pts] + Plasma Obliterator [230 pts]

Officio Assassinorum Detachment (140 pts)
- Culexus Assassin [140 pts]

>>47920370
I think I'll pop the odd-man out Libby into terminator armor and figure out which squad to attach him to.
I'll figure it out.

>>47920561
So much footslogging. I would suggest grabbing an inquisitor and 3 rhinos to help you move into position.

>>47919905
Not very good at all, even as a joke.

>You are now only allowed to take a maximum of 1 unit of the same type for any list 999 points or under. This increases to 2 units of the same type at 1000-1999 points, 3 unit types of the same type at 2000-2999 etc.
Therefore an average game of 1500 or 1850 points would allow 2 of the same units maximum. Would this be a good change? Opinions?

File: s-l1600.jpg (156KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 1600x1200px

>>47919565

I hate units and wargear that cost odd numbers.
MAKE EVERYTHING COST AN EVEN NUMBER PLEASE GW

There's no chance that the Black Crusade detachment won't be utterly disappointing, is there?

What would it take for a detachment to make CSM good?

>>47920762
>tyranids suddenly become even weaker
nothing out of the ordinary here

>>47920789
You could still have double flyrant, I don't see what's wrong? You have to remember that every army gets weaker with this.

>>47920814
Your idea is shit.

What army do you play?

>>47920762
Congratulations, you just made deathstars even stronger and banned most methods of countering them. I sure hope you like playing bikebrarians vs Knights every single game.

>>47920762
>Imperial Guardsmen
>Necron Warriors
>Tactical Marines

No. 25% troops was a much better idea than this.

>>47920814
what if I don't want to be "that asshole" and play double flyrant?

>>47920762
So would I have to bring 1 Veteran squad with a Flamer and the other with a Heavy Flamer? Or am I forced to using a Veteran squad and a Platoon for 2 troop choices at <1k? Same question applies to my Platoon since I am required to take 2 Infantry Squads minimum with them and they count as separate units.

>>47919772
That read worse than a One Direction fanfic.

>>47920762
>Literally can't play Sisters under 1k
And nothing of value was lost.

>>47920762
>Several actual armies can't even play under 2000 points
Good job. Bravo.

>>47920844
25% troops is problematic since half the codexes in the game have excellent troops (anything with bikes, Crises suits, Necrons) and half have shit troops.

>>47920762
So you can't take 3 squads of boys in a 1850 game.
That'll work great
HINT: SARCASM

I guess it was a bad idea then. O well.

>>47920773
God, I wish a Tau got possessed by a Daemon.

I wish that there was some fallen Sept or something that exist(ed) on the fringes of Tau space, that all of their commanders but one get slaughtered in a Chaos raid. One commander, however, is possessed by a Daemon, and becomes this shadowy, legendary figure that haunts Tau space to this day - more myth than legend, but always stalking the space lanes and raiding Tau worlds, causing headaches for the Etherals as they try to suppress the knowledge that the Daemon-Tau even exists in the first place from their own military, not telling them what they're fighting or even understanding how to fight it correctly - which means they consistently fail, and only feed its hunger.

It's moving closer and closer to Tau space again with every cycle, and the Etherals are beginning to panic. Eventually, however, one nigh-insane Etheral has a hail-mary idea, which is tentatively put into play, albeit with extreme caution and near incredulousness that it's even being done in the first place.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

A man strides into a bar on a far-away, backwater Imperial world, and asks for one of the locals from the bartender. The bartender points to the back, and he makes his way there hesitantly. He eventually comes across his quarry - a massive, slab-muscled soldier with the distinctive ][ of the Inquisition on his neck. The man tentatively approaches him - he introduces himself as a friend, and states that he has a message for his employer. He hands the man an envelope. The Stormtrooper looks confused and incredibly suspicious, but he takes the envelope and opens it. After reading it, he immediately jumps out of his booth with his weapons drawn and scans the area, but the man is gone. As the envelope falls to the floor, the letterhead is revealed to be the symbol of the Tau Water Caste.

And that's my campaign hook for Sunday.

>>47920895
You guess?

Are you so fucking braindead you thought it was a GOOD idea?

File: 1466553879556.jpg (25KB, 307x352px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 307x352px

>>47920881
>problematic

>>47920900
WD featured "spawned" crisis suits a while ago

>>47920902
I thought it was a decent idea, yeah. Got a problem with that tubby?

File: vegitarian.jpg (546KB, 700x775px) Image search: [Google]

546KB, 700x775px

>>47920814
>You could still have double flyrant, I don't see what's wrong?

>Forced to take certain units/weapon to be even passable
>I don't see what's wrong?

>>47920928
>Fight me 1v1 in real life bro!

What is this the year 2000?

>>47920928

Well it clearly wasn't, was it?

>>47920944
Nah man it's 2016 tubby. Don't you know the year? Are you THAT braindead?

File: lolumad.png (92KB, 255x220px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 255x220px

>>47920928

>>47920955
He's nothing special. Every single balance idea that comes out of these thread's is shit and deserves to be shit on rightfully.

>>47920762
>>47920928
>Space Marines players

File: hx6edy.jpg (224KB, 900x563px) Image search: [Google]

224KB, 900x563px

>>47919494
>Dark Red colour
>Massive Crozius
>Arcane tattoos
>Arcane incisions on the armor
>Symbol is a horned skull
>Great familiarity with the Warp

What it is, the zero calories version of a Word Bearer?

>>47920918
Yeah, well...I'm still doing mine.

>>47920971
No, I think that was by far the worst idea I've seen in any of these threads. Except for the guy that thought Wraithknights needed a 45 point increase to be balanced.

>>47920971
>Every single balance idea that comes out of these thread's is shit and deserves to be shit on rightfully.

That's not true at all.

There's a few rare decent ideas, they're just drowned in the shitposting and "I don't understand core concepts of this game."

>>47920975
yup you caught me. I'm also pro skyhammer against eldar and tau and not a waacfag.

>>47920971
I liked the 25% tax on repeating non-troops.

Though that hi ges on killing marine and eldar biker troop option as well.

File: 125169605786.jpg (73KB, 450x333px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 450x333px

>>47920928
>I thought it was a decent idea

>>47920987
name a good balance idea (besides Space Odin's ork codex) to come out of these threads.

>>47920980
They doubleweeb shinto demon samurai ghost tau.

>>47921005
Capping invulnerable saves at 4+ for non HQ, making most AP one worse.

>>47921005
That one CSM dude with the Chapter Tactics, Relics, and Warlord Traits is pretty okay.

At least he's trying, and he's attempting to balance an otherwise shitty codex while trying to stay to the fluff.

>>47921005
I didn't say there were any good ones. I just said that this is a special level of shit, that completely breaks the game.

Oh wait, the "AP higher than armor save can never wound" guy was even worse. But this is up there with that.

>>47920910
>getting triggered by diction
You're as contemptible as the people you're tilting at.

File: what.png (50KB, 627x620px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 627x620px

>>47920928
>thought it was a decent idea

>>47920979
Nah, they exorcise themselves of Daemons through willpower alone upon recruitment to become immune to them.

Silas Alberec was Astartes sized before the gene-seed implant. He became Primarch sized after.

Basically, he's a non-psyker Lorgar. Without a Primarch statline. Or any of the goodies that accompany being a Primarch.

>>47921024
I remember that guy. He has a lot of work to do to make that shit work out.
>>47921022
Terrible idea especially with the high ap1 shooting of some armies like eldar. Bumping them down to AP 2 does nothing. Making most AP one worse makes armies like Grey Knights useless.

Next.

>>47921024
But anon, that thing was horrible.
No good, not even decent, CSM fandex ever came out.

>>47921005
Someone suggested sort of a version of EW for high point vehicles to turn 6+ on the damage table into crew stunned. I thought that was a pretty good idea.

>>47921024
>>47921024
But he doesn't stick to the fluff. He has bugfuck retarded headcanon that he cleaves to.

His entire project is awful.

>>47921075
Not a terrible idea. I'll give /tg/ that one I suppose, though it's fairly small.

>>47921068
>He has a lot of work to do to make that shit work out.

To be fair, so does GW.

At least it's an attempt, and he seems to be attempting to revise it regularly. Last time he posted it it cut back a lot of the weird rules and drawbacks (like now they can take Bikers in a Death Guard army, which they couldn't before for some admittedly weird reasons) and it's become a lot more streamlined.

I dunno, I just at least appreciate the effort. It's better than the shit we have now.

>>47921063
>Silas Alberec was Astartes sized before the gene-seed implant. He became Primarch sized after.

So he was seven feet at age 14?

>>47919537
>scat fetish.

DID SOMEONE SAY ORKS?

>>47920971
all max size units of foot infantry should respawn in ongoing reserves when wiped off the table

>>47921122
A kid in my sister's sophomore class (so around 14) is six foot ten inches. Dude is a monster.

>>47920975

His suggested changes would invalidate every single good marine build. Gladius has multiples to the tune of 6 squads. Bike spam is obviously bike spam. Skyhammer is doubled up by default.

I guess that stupid grav centurion deathstar list would still work.

>>47921005
Hah! Too easy.

>Turn all robots/mechs into vehicles

>>47921138
Man, when I was in middle school, I knew a dude who looked like he was old enough to be in college. Could grow a full man-beard and all that, and was at least 6'5.

>>47921134
Could be meh, but depends. I'm sure respawning grav cents would be just dandy.
>>47921153
bad balance memes

>>47921138
>>47921122
I knew a guy that was over 6 feet tall in 3rd grade. Hell, I was 5'10" in 4th grade, although I never grew after that. Must have been something in the water.

>>47921160
>tfw that was me in my school

>>47921160
I knew a guy like that too. He was hairy all over, and played on the travel soccer team I was on. He was fast as shit too, and I swear he was starting to bald. Felt like he was 30 years old. Hell he looked older then than I do now and that was like 12 years ago.

File: image.jpg (159KB, 488x1035px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 488x1035px

Am I the only one who's unhappy that the Red Hunters have no characters, and part of the Chaoter Tactics are now irrelevant due to 7th ed allies chart?

>>47921149
It will change the meta enough that Terminators and Centurions will be useful. It won't change the meta enough to make Repentia or Maleceptors useful. Space Marines are one of the few armies (along with Eldar and Necrons) that actually have plenty of units that are useful in a vacuum. If you can't just spam your good units, armies like Tau get fucked and even other Space Marines can't spam the weapons that make heavy infantry useless.

>>47921181
let's have the rule only apply if they were deployed on the table when the game began

>>47921292
probably

make your own characters
the new ally chart doesn't take anything away from your army either

>>47921292
Yes, because you can just play GK or SoB if you want badass power armored inquisitorial thugs.

>>47921292
Betting you that Red Scorpions will have an update in the new IA, which gives the rules for Leviathan Dread Culln, and new chapter tactics for them that makes it so that Iron Hands don't make them useless.

File: image.jpg (92KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 1000x1000px

>>47921341
>THIS ISN'T EVEN MY FINAL FORM!

Why do exorcists look like word bearers?

Still no angels of caliban epub?

>>47920979
Funny thing, his warlord trait is a bubble of WB legion astartes "True Believers", and his mace lokks like Illuminarum without spikes

File: i have no idea what this list is.png (98KB, 676x2145px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 676x2145px

So this list is just supposed to be for casual 1,500 games with some friends from back home.

Any glaringly obvious flaws that need to be fixed, or will this suffice for some fun beer and pizza games?

>>47921370
Because unknown Primarch, obviously. Why bother asking?

>>47921181
>bad balance memes
Give me one good reason why the Dreadknight shouldn't be a Walker like the Penitent Engine.

>>47921402
Anything will suffice for beer & pretzels games.

>>47921370
Because they are for people who want to play Word Bearers but their mom won't let them.

>>47921416
Fair point.

They want to do 1,850 WAAC lists in the future, but for now I've talked them into casual 1,500 stuff.

>>47921292

Even if you had rules for an IC HQ you'd still have no models or transfers.

>>47921402
Use the Scions formation and don't bother with Flamers; they're useless against anything you'll want to shoot at with HSLGs and you don't want to get that close to anything anyway. Take the Flamers on your Space Marines (or better yet: any other weapon), and Plasma on the respawning Scions.

>>47921295

Except marine units AREN'T good in a vacuum. Terminators? They're terrible. And Tau can literally take 2-3 Stormsurges and 3 Riptides in a single unit.

>>47921423
>1850 point WAAC.
Thats where you bring the same list but put a gun on the table.
Say it's 350 points of WAAC.

>>47921441
The reason I have the flamers is my friends love flooding the table with huge armies (one guy plays Nids and the other plays Daemons), but now that you mention it, bringing flamers specifically because of that is sort of list-tailor tier.

>>47921459
We're Texan, guns are to be expected.

>>47921443
>Terminators? They're terrible.
Only because AP2 is so common.
>And Tau can literally take 2-3 Stormsurges and 3 Riptides in a single unit.
I forgot about that. So yeah, Tau would be completely unstoppable.

If CSM were going to regain purchasable Veteran Tactics, what rules should be available?

>>47921469
Take them then, there's nothing wrong with playing to your meta. But don't put them on your Scions. In fact, don't take Scions unless you count on fighting primarily Marines. Look at D-99 if you want operators.

>>47921368
This is truly the golden age to start a Red Scorpions army.
That BaC kit, an entire supplement just for them, and FW which is better than ever.

Too bad I already play their founding legion the Emperor's Children or I'd definitely start them

>>47921482
30k veterans are fine

>>47921503
D-99 is Elysian Drop Troops, right?

Maybe in the future when I'm comfortable with resin.

>>47921514
If I wasn't a Storm Wardens fanatic, I'd be starting a Red Scorpions army the moment IA14 drops.

>>47921368
considering he is in a dreadnought now I'm pretty sure that IS cullns final form as it were.

>>47921514

Red Scorpions were my second choice. I don't regret picking my first choice over them but I sure am jealous they get so much shit. Three IA volumes, including one dedicated one complete with relics and now a second one just like Minotaurs who also received their own dedicated IA, a billion HQ models, the only helmeted librarian model, tons of transfers and shit

>>47921522
Just use Scions models with D-99 rules. Although Elysian models look fucking great. Among other nifty things, D-99 gets an Elites unit for 65 points armed with 5 Flamers.

>>47921537
>laughing titan precept

>>47921572
I'll give that a try!

I'll try them as regular Scions and then ask the guys if I can just try them as Elysians instead.

How do I play this game in a way that is fun

>>47921584

Have a good amount of not-shitty looking terrain and an opponent who isn't a faggot, then proceed to do funny shit on the table for laughs.

I'm sure you all know how to have fun by messing around in video games instead of trying super hard to win the match and kill the enemy team. 40k is no different.

>>47921584
You accept it's a hobby first, setting second, social activity third and the game part meekly shuffles into a last place.

>>47921604
>I'm sure you all know how to have fun by messing around in video games instead of trying super hard to win the match and kill the enemy team
Too strong of a desire to win at everything to do that. I should see a therapist.

>>47921659

Surely you enjoy playing to win then? Then have fun that way. If you are physically incapable of easing up on playing hardcore cutthroat games AND YET derive no enjoyment from doing so, you have mental issues.

>>47921666
Maybe it's because all I have to fight are Orks and CSM. Tabling opponents constantly with my Leman Russ lines kinda takes the thrill away.

>>47921411
Why shouldn't the penitent engine be a mc?

>>47921698

Because the chassis is still a walker and it's clunky like a dread.

>>47921698
>Leaked that 8e PE becomes an MC
>Rejoicing in the streets
>SoB 8e codex comes out
>T5 2W 4+6++

>>47921584
Set challenges for yourself.
Hold x objectives, kill X with your Y, Hit X enemies in a turn.

>>47921725
>I4, 2A, rage, rampage, FNP,
>Chainfist w. Shred melee and 2x heavy flamer
>45 points

>>47921706
so do you think the dreadknight should be a walker?

>yfw beautiful new rubric kit comes out
>no new rules
>formation grants Hatred and Soul Blaze (All the time!)

>>47921411
>Give me one good reason why the Dreadknight shouldn't be a Walker like the Penitent Engine.
Because Grey Knights already have a Dreadnought in their codex and to add another similar walker would be redundant. Anything else?

>>47921698
Because vehicles having consequences is part of the game. Making everything a monster throws everything out of wack, and that's before you get into the ridiculous wargear and weapons they carry.

Nidzilla was bad enough that they had to get the bonafide expertise of cruddace for the rest of time to keep them in check. And they didn't even have half of the tools these other armies do.

>>47921725
>Death spasms: When the model loses its last wound it WS and I drops to 2 and it loses the Shield of Faith rule, but its Attack score doubles and it counts as a 11/10/10 walker with 2 Hull points

So I like guys in armor riding wolves but the crazy haircuts from the SW are not my thing. Do they come with helmets to raplace those heads?

>>47921482
Vanilla terminators are bad even without ap2.

hrmn. got a heralds of ruin kill team game coming up, i got about 60 points to fuck around with to go with my inquisitor, death cult assassin, and bullgryn bonehead with power maul.I was thinking Two vet squads with grenade launchers, but should i go cheaper and just do guard squads and figure out what else to slot in those ten points?

>>47921760

Should've made the DK a superheavy walker.

>>47921537
>He doesn't know about the fruits of Chaos

>>47921839
Nah, Gk can still take Imperial Knights as lords of war/allies. The Dreadknight fulfills a useful slot for them. One of the only useful slots they have besides Librarian HQ's. Turn the Dreadknight into a walker and you've effectively made their codex worse than orks.

I need to make sure I'm understanding AP right.

So say I shoot at a model using an AP4 weapon. The model I'm shooting at has a 4+ armor save. Does AP4 mean that the model just doesn't get to make an armor save and HAS to take the wound unless it has an invuln / FNP?

All these people wanting to nerf my dreadknights fuck off. It's the only unit worth a damn in the entire codex. Go jack off to your formations/fliers/conclaves/grav cents/riptides/wraithknights/bikes and leave my dreadknights alone.

>>47921947
yeah you're right. They might have a cover save as well though.

>>47921947
thats right, although AP1 and AP2 weapons also deny FNP aswell, invulns and cover saves are taken instead

>>47921997
No they don't.
Only weapons that have ID or double out tougness ignore it.

>>47921997
>AP1 and AP2 weapons also deny FNP
What?

>>47922012
>>47922022
well i look retarded, i just looked through the rule book and cant find any reference to AP1 and 2

maybe im thinking of an older edition

>>47921948
Why should being a vehicle be a nerf? The fact that MC status is considered an upgrade from Walker is a problem.

>>47921948
>wants to keep one OP unit since it carries a shit codex

Terrible game design, kill yourself faggot. You're literally saying Tyranids are fine.

>>47922060
It will automatically be a nerf since we already have dreadnoughts. We don't need another useless walker. The only way I'd accept it is if walker/vehicle rules get buffed a lot, but that will never happen and the people that want dreadknights to be walkers don't give a shit because they don't play GK, so Stay away from my dreadknights you non-GK player.

>>47922072
And here you are wanting to nerf the last thing in a shit codex. Even worse. If you don't play the faction, fuck off.

>>47922091
>being this stupid

If an OP unit can get nerfed, UP units can get buffed, moron. Not wanting a better codex and clinging to an OP unit is stupid as shit. YOU fuck off, from not only this board, but the entire game. I bet you were a WAAC 5E GK shitter too.

>>47922072
Dreadknight isn't even that OP. If you can't deal with a dreadknight in this meta and want to change it because of that you just suck as a player.

>>47922081
I play GK. I think that Dreadknights should be Walkers and that Walkers shouldn't be significantly worse than MCs. Why is that a problem?

>>47922091
>grey knights
>invisible deepstriking terminator army
>shit codex


do people here just go to tournament tier lists before deciding that their codex is bad or something?

>>47922091
>And here you are wanting to nerf the last thing in a shit codex.

Point out where I said that, because I'm not even part of this conversation, just pointing out how dumb you are.

>>47922100
fags like you don't give a shit about giving buffs to factions you don't play. Don't act like you actually care about game balance. You just can't deal with one unit that isn't even that OP so you want to squash it. There's a million other OP shit probably in your own army. How about you deal with that faggot. KYS. And no I didn't play in 5th. Quit at 4th and came back just now in 7th.

>>47922109
>But with two ML3 Librarians I only have a 75% chance of getting Invisibility!

Could I use Cadian Heirlooms in a standard AM CAD?

I want Volkov's Cane for my infantry blob and heavy weapon squads. I know Cadian Battlegroups can use AM Heirlooms as well but I don't know if its both ways too for regular IG.

>>47922126
>instead of just clinging to one unit, why dont you buff the rest of the codex
>FUCK OFF YOU DONT CARE ABOUT MY CODEX REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>47922126
>Getting completely assmangled about one change that should happen and shouldn't affect the effectiveness of the unit
It's late, you should stop drinking and head to bed.

>>47922104
It's not a problem. But the only reason these people want that is because their precious dreadnoughts are shit. Imagine if their dreadnoughts and walkers were better than MC's on every level. You think they'd give a shit that the dreadknight is an MC?? No they wouldn't. Having a dreadknight walker as we already have a dreadnought is just redundant and stupid shit.

>>47922130
Why don't you DL Mont'ka and check for yourself?

>>47922130
No. If the Codex doesn't explicitly say you can use something, you can't.

>>47922109
Librarians, Terminators, and Dreadknights. That's literally all we have. If You think I can win games off of invisible terminators and Librarians alone you are a fucking retard.

>>47922161
> If You think I can win games off of invisible terminators and Librarians then you are vastly overestimating the skill i possess

File: 5e5997d701cf04a562efd6a5c117041d.jpg (138KB, 736x967px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 736x967px

>there are LITERALLY people ITT right now that play space marines

gross, ew, gay
you have to be 18 to browse this site
best army coming through

>>47922145
Buff walkers first, then change my dreadknights to walkers. Not the other way around you fucking fag. IF GW ever buffs walkers/vehicles I'll accept it.

>>47922130
It states you can use Cadian Heirlooms for any Cadian force, which naturally includes a Cadian CAD. So unless your models are steel legion or something you can do it.

>>47922150
>Can't have more than one Walker in a Codex
Why not? They'll still fulfill the same roles that they did. And maybe if vehicles were brought up to MC level (or if MCs were brought down to vehicle level and then the codices that rely on MCs were balanced around the change) your Dreadnought wouldn't be a useless pile of dicks and you could actually have a choice instead of laughing at the fact that the Dreadnought even exists.

>>47922168
You are literally complaining about terminators. One of the worst units in the game. You know regular marines can do this strat better with Conclave right? You really are a dumbfuck.

>>47922180
I'll wait until GW does that change before I let /tg/ try and force the only useful unit we have to be shit. Until walkers as a whole are buffed, then nope.

File: grey_knight_w_incenerator_by_kano_kun-d3bey1a.jpg (175KB, 605x780px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 605x780px

>>47922172

You sound as bad as me when I defend Dreadknights. Keep at it, maybe we will get an actual varied army one day.

>>47922172
GW isn't going to melee Dreadknights Walkers because they're just going to squat Walkers entirely. It doesn't fucking matter. We're just talking theory here, stop being so assblasted.

>>47922184
>terminators
>one of the worst units in the game

I can't tell if this is an advert for shovels or not with the hole you are digging

File: 1410212209444.jpg (7KB, 199x228px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 199x228px

>>47922198

...you think terminators are good.

Explain.

>>47922198
Man you are so right. Terminators are some of the fucking best units in 40k. Fuck off, you probably have a bike army or some gay shit.

What even are the problems with walkers anyway? If you got rid of explosion and gave them 6 hp would they be as good as mcs?

>>47922169
da red wunz go fasta WAAAAGH xDDDDDDDD

>>47922216
>>47922218
>Invisible
>Terminators
>With S7
>And ID
>That Deep Strike
>With no scatter if you're not an idiot and know how to use Teleport Homers
Are you guys for real?

>>47922219

They need to have no weapon destroyed and no immobilized results either. Toss in a 6++ on all facings and we might get somewhere.

The movement remains an issue however.

>waaah, it's be redundant to have a Dreadnought and a walker Dreadknight
That's cool. I'll just be over here with my Helbrutes, Maulerfiends, Forgefiends, and Defilers, all of which are AV12 Walkers.

>>47922218
>saying terminators arnt bad means that its the best unit

I can't tell if this is bait or you actually have some brain defect

>>47922219
walkers don't have a fucking save. Make my Dreadknights walkers 13 front armor 12 sides and give them a 3+ invuln with 5 hull points that can be boosted to 2+ with sanctuary built in and personal teleporters with all our other options and I might take it. Basically make them mini Imperial knights.

>>47922228
>Deep strike them
>Enemy ignores them and goes after objectives
>ggnore fuck off

>>47922219
There are none, now that grenade spam is fixed. Not having saves hurts bit, they would benefit a lot from a 5++. But barely anything can actually hurt AV11 in CC, and not much short of anti tank weaponry can hurt them with shooting. Just steer clear of Meltaguns and you're fine.

>>47922219
A hp is generally a little harder than a wound, so 6hp isn't needed, maybe 4. But their either needs to be a creature wounded damage chart or the vehicle damage chart needs to be removed, and they need to be a little more generous in giving invuns to vehicles or little less in giving them to MCs, also FNP is seemingly everywhere and vehicles don't really have an equivalent.

>>47920881
No, what is prblematic is putting a 100 point into troops in a 2000 point game.

These are your troops. They are the backbone of your army, not "those few guys you had to bring along"

>>47922255
>Imperial Knights
>2++
You've never actually played against a Knight, have you?

>>47922228
So 135+175 points for a nice lil' 310 point assault group. (No AP2 according to you)

That isn't taking advantage of NSF unless you have SM Scouts w/ homers. So T2 Deepstrike, no assault till T3.

This is assuming you get Invis (50/50 ain't bad for 40k), the reserve roll, no scatter, AND you successfully manifest Invis for 2 turns in a row.

It's shit.

>>47922219
Weapon strength needs to go down or AV's need a slight increase. Glands need to not always strip hull points. A single pen shouldn't autofuck them.

Dreadknights being walkers actually doesn't make sense because the guy is just standing out in terminator armor. He should have a 2+ save. The exosuit provides the invuln. There actually isn't that much armor on the dreadknight model at all.

>>47922255
>Enemy ignores them and goes after objectives

enemies wouldnt ignore you and go for objectives until the last 2 turns, either you havnt actually played a match and are shit osting or you have a fetish for being lobotomized

>>47922272
>Actually playing
Where do you think you are?
Playing the game is anecdotal and a waste of time, we are competetive pros and just compare mathhammer.

>>47922284
>I'm still in 6th edition

>>47922277
>Glands need to not always strip hull points. A single pen shouldn't autofuck them.

maybe vehicles that cant jink need a mechanics to try and deny the damage, but i dont see the issue with pens

>>47922219
lots of problems. weaker to small arms fire because they have no 2+ armor save. Weaker to high ap fire because they might explode to pens. So basically weaker all around. There's no reason for dreadknights to be walkers except for people complaining about them. The model doesn't even fit the walker idea of having "armor."

>>47922283
Penitent Engines are walkers, that's made sense for the past 20 years.

>>47922272
Chaos can actually get Chaos Knights with 2++. Just upgrade them to Khorne Daemon and give them that Legacy of Ruin that gives +1 to khorne daemon saves within 6". Now you can just use Grimoire on him and even if you dont, he'll have 4++ all around.

>>47922297
small arms fire isn't an issue, most vehicles are immune to it.

>>47922311

Did they ever rule on the Ion Shield relic being another shield? Or did it just replace your current one.

>>47922300
Dreadknights aren't walkers. They make sense as well.

>>47922297
>Weaker to small arms fire
And by that you mean weaker to Meltaguns and Heavy Weapons. Even Pulse Rifles struggle to glance Dreadnoughts.

>>47922312
If I'm av11 I'm still getting glanced to death on s5 weapons. That's basically firewarriors raping me to death. No thanks.

>>47922297
Most vehicles are immune to small arms fire, a bolter can only glance the lightest vehicles and even a pulse rifle had to be looking at the ass of a dreadnought to do anything.

Rolled 18 (1d20)

>>47922224
1v1 me assault phase 'umie faggot

File: DSCF1901[3].jpg (257KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

257KB, 1024x768px

>>47922321
>>47922300

>>47922321
The only reason Dreadknights aren't Walkers is because of Warddex WAACfaggotry.

Are there any updated megas or other sources? Looking for recent WD's and the newest chapters of the Space Wolves story.

>>47922319
In the new FAQ they ruled that Sanctuary replaces your current Ion Shield. So no more double Ion Shields sadly.

>>47922339
Av11 is rhino armor.

>>47922319
Replaces your current one, at least if the current FAQ draft remains unchanged on the issue when published.

>>47922339
ignoring the fact that its uncommon to get glanced to death unless the enemies rolls are really lucky maybe you should consider that dreadnaughts can stand behind cover

>>47922345
Jesus fuck just make Penitent Engines WS4 BS2 S5 T5 W3 I3 A3 LD10 Sv3+/6++ MCs already.

>>47922345
hmm one has an unarmored guy and one has a terminator. One should be a monstrous creature with a 6+ shirt save and one should be a monstrous creature with a 2+ armor save. That would make sense to me.

>>47922363
>3+
No armour brah, we need randomized hits back, chance to hit hull or body.

>>47922357
Glanced to death, uncommon? I guess you do not play the same game as I do then.

hehehe our dreadnoughts suck. What do we do??? Can't let those grey knights have something special. Nerf that shit! Make them walkers! Once Grey knights are shit and only have walkers then GW will have to update Dreadnoughts! The perfect plan hehehe!

>>47922363
They're already effectively T7, though. That's actually a significant nerf in close combat. Instead, make them faster so they can actually get into close combat.

>>47920900
That is awesome.

>>47922366
>>47922363
Differentiate them by making the Repentia mad.
Rage, rampage, 4+ Fnp.

>>47922352
>>47922349

Ahh that sucks, it isn't worth the points at all then.

>>47922386
Nerf? Not really. Usually they got gimped by krak grenades.
10 grenades hitting av11 = 1,4 HP damage (with slight chance of instagib).
10 grenades hitting T5 3+ = 1,1 wounds suffered (with no chance of instagib).

So in the end its pretty much the same thing. But I do agree. PEs, like most melee walkers in this game, are too slow.

>>47922381
>Dreadknights, Riptides, Wraithknights, and Wasteland are all MCs instead of Walkers because even GW knows Walkers are shit
>The only Walkers that even exist in the game are Dreadnoughts, Sentinels, and Killa Kans, all of which have always been completely worthless
>Instead of fixing Walkers, they'll just continue making all new walking robots MCs
>Walkers will always be garbage
>Everyone will always laugh at how completely useless Dreadnoughts are
Tragic.

>>47922410
>10 grenades

>>47922410
Krak is ap3 so can't instagib walkers

>>47922343
>I2

>>47921386
DA player here.
Haven't heard of it what is it?

>>47922377
Dreads are 12/12/10

assuming 10 FW are in rapid fire range, its going to average 10 hits and just over 2 wounds

this is assuming that FW are behind you which is very uncommon unless you intentionally walk past them or turn around, ofcourse YMMV but with 12 front and side armor you shouldnt be having an issue against anything that isnt outflanking or deepstriking (or breachers in devilfish)

>>47922430
It was easier to state the math with 1 grenades.

And if you imply about the FAQ-change, fuck that. It got so much backslash that they arent going to implement it since its fucking retarded.

>>47922423
>Tau literally have no walkers in their army
how did this fucking happen? How does the fucking gundam faction not have walkers?

>>47922423
Fucking good. I want my Dreadknights different from Dreadnoughts and it only helps that they are actually useful. You should be happy for me, and happy that you have more options than Dreadnoughts in your own codex. Making Dreadknights into worse units completely dumps on the GK codex. Unless you're revamping our entire codex and buffing our other units to compensate I want nothing of it, and want no "game balancers" from /tg/ doing a damn thing.

>>47922448
Except it's clearly the way the rulebook was written. Please tell me they didn't actually cave and put in some derpy official houserule that says you can throw as many grenades as you want.

>>47922458
They are monstrous creatures, which are better.

>>47922448
>>47922474

link to the FAQ in question? im curious

>>47922468
What if Dreadknights got AV13 (so T9), Serpent Shield, and 3 HP? How would that not be a substantial buff?

>>47922471
We have VERY different view on "clear" then. And we didnt need to have any derpy houserule since those FAQs are still unofficial. We'll see about it after they become official.

>>47922474
It doesn't make any sense though. if they wanted to give the impression of a really nimble vehicles which I think is what they were going for then why didn't they just make them walkers with equal armor on all sides, implying that they can turn to block attacks on their strongest armor.

>>47922482
Latest GW FAQ drafts are in the Warhammer 40.000 facebook page.

>>47922438
It's open topped. Also grenades are ap4.

>>47922471
>throw
>melta-bombs have to be clamped in place

>>47922499
Verbiage is subject to change, content is not. They might add an Errata to appease all the idiot rules lawyers, though.
>B-but they're not throwing them! They're holding them to their chest and bear hugging their enemy
>Meltabombs are bombs, not grenades!

>>47922487
Still explodes.

>>47922438
1. Ap3 does nothing extra against vehicles. Only ap2 and ap1 do.
2. They are ap4
3. Penitent Engines are open-topped so even basic weapons have chance to explode them.

>>47922216
>>47922218

>Guy doubts that termies are among the worst units in the game
>Try to claim that means he's saying they're good

If you have to change somebody's argument in order to attack it, you forfeit the argument. If you think termies are even close to being bottom of thee barrel you zero perspective. Try looking at codices that aren't Marine levels of homosexuality.

>>47922487
Because those stats make even less sense than the dreadknight being an MC. Look at the fucking model. If the dreadknight was a Walker he would have less armor than a dreadnought because visually he has LESS. And no, we don't need a fucking buff. You know as well as I do if GW made DK's into MCs then they would be nerfed. It's the only real reason this discussion is happening. Either way us GK players will have to use it because we literally have nothing else. So I'd rather not take the risk of GW fucking it up. That's why this entire discussion is stupid. How about you buff our other units? Do something pro-active for our codex? NOPE Gotta nerf that one GK thing that just bugs me!

>>47922533
It doesn't though, that's the point.

>>47922533
>still explodes
but loses the ability to be force sworded to death.

>>47922541
no thanks. I'd rather not be dragged down from lowmid tier into shit tier because of some retard's need to have something changed.

>>47922548
Force is less common than Ap2/1 S8+.

>>47922527
Meltabombs vary, for orks they are magnetic charges slapped onto vehicles, for marines they are grenades.

"Tankbusta Bombs are heavy magnetic discs size and shape of manhole covers. They are directional and are used when Stikkbombs simply aren't sufficient to destroy something (and as such are more attractive to many Orks). They are attached to the vehicles by magnetic clamps"

>>47922216
He said they're not the worst unit in the game. And the entire Ork codex would like to agree with him.

>>47922541
Fucker explained himself, he got shot down here >>47922276

>>47922543
I meant if they made them into walkers

>>47922544
Unless it's a superheavy, it explodes just fine.

>>47922343

Finally, the time for my loses-to-every-shooting-army assault-based marine army to shine!

>>47922543
>hurr
>durr
>hurrdurr
The point is that it's possible to have an underpowered walker, and it's possible to have an overpowered walker. Presumably at some point in between there is a balanced walker. If Dreadknights were changed from MC to walker without having their power level changed, would you be this crackcrumbled?

>>47922558
Yeah but force actually is instant death where as AP2/1 is only a chance of exploding.

>>47922573
>He's never played against Eldar
How'd you manage that? Oh wait, I'm on /tg/. Suddenly it makes sense.

>people trying to argue Terminators are good

This is why it's pointless to have any sort of real meta discussion on /tg/: it's filled with clueless morons. There's a reason not a single winning marine list uses TEQ.

This is basic shit, people. Knowing that Terminators being not very good is like knowing that Tau and Eldar are pretty damn powerful. Oh wait, what am I saying, these are the generals where Taufags constantly come in and say how Riptides are underpowered and Tau are pretty reasonable.

>>47922581
They wouldn't be though. That's the whole point. GW would fuck it up. Not worth the risk. Maybe buff some of our other units with your time instead. Oh wait! you don't actually give a shit about our codex.

>>47922509
cheers buddy

>>47922595
Riptides are worse than Ghostkeels so they clearly need a buff.

>>47922595
Typical marinefag, talking about how overpowered everyone else is and acting like he doesn't have the strongest codex in the game despite Tau jetpack and markerlight shenanigans and Eldar distort faggotry.

>>47922566

>Shot down

No he didn't. He didn't even address the point. Nothing about termies is close to being amongst the worst 40k has to offer. Have you ever picked up another codex? There are assault units that not only have zero capacity to kill shit in CC, but no means of getting there. Termies have the luxury of being fuckstrong and easy to get into CC with their only major downside being overpriced in a codex so strong they can be carried to victory regardless. Try running Deldar or Orks or Nids and learn the joy of having units that can't win in combat even if they could make it.

>>47922595

>people trying to argue Terminators are good

Literally no one is saying that you illiterate nigger.

>>47922595
I wish deep strike was still separated into mission-specific (stuff that lands from above, basically) and can-do-all-the-time (stuff that teleports). One of the best things about terminators back in the day was you could always drop them behind enemy lines, it made them feel like a special unit that was sent in to do a specific highly-dangerous objective.

But now you can just throw down drop pod teams for cheaper, with more special weapons, on turn 1, with no chance of mishap. It's rubbish.

>>47922595
They're not saying termies are good. They're saying they're not the worst. Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that terminators are worse than every single unit in the ork codex?

>>47922591
Sill need to make the roll.

>>47922616

Yeah I'm sure the marine codex is the strongest codex in the game because of TERMINATORS.

And I'm sure terminators are exclusive to the vanilla book. Man those BA are so OP with their Terminators huh!

>>47922604
Okay, let me clear up some misconceptions here:
>GW isn't going to change Dreadknights, and if they do they're only going to make them better because it's a big, expensive, high margin model
>I'm not making a fandex so I have no interest in buffing GK, which I've already found to be plenty strong in my own army

>>47922595
Ah so your argumen is that is it isn't the best its the worst.
There is no second place.

>>47922632

Try reading the fucking thread. The current fucking discussion is literally an argument where one side is saying "terminators are bad you idiot". Gee, I wonder what the other side's argument could POSSIBLY FUCKING BE

>>47922643
>Roll Explodes!
>Convert to glance
>Doesn't explode
Okay.

>>47922646
Marines are so overpowered that you've forgotten what a balanced unit looks like. If it doesn't have Gravcannons or 30 S5 HoW attacks or give you 600+ points of value for free, it's worthless.

>>47922642
It started here
>>47922109

Where some fuckwit thinks invisible termies is a game winning stratergy. It's not someone starting off saying they're the worst unit in the game (although someone did say once itt that they were one of the worst, which still implies the existence of units worst than them) and continuing from their.

>>47922655
"THE other side"
Ah the shortcoming of two party states and tumblr.

Assumig there are only two extremes, good and bad.

>>47922646
>Yeah I'm sure the marine codex is the strongest codex in the game because of TERMINATORS.

I've never seen someone so incapable of understanding a simple point. Multiple anons are trying to make a it very clear and you are still desperate to avoid that argument at all costs. No one is saying termies are good. They are mediocre, but no where near as bad as absolute garbage like Wyches or Maleceptors or Boyz.

>>47922649
then why bother caring about making dreadknights into walkers? It's an unnecessary change not worthy of discussion. There's plenty more in the GK codex that needs actual fixing besides the dreadknight, but since you only use them as allies, you probably don't even know that or care like you said.

>>47922345
>Don't talk to me or my daughter ever again

>>47922655
"They aren't goig to win you the game but they are better than Nobs"

>>47922655

>If someone disagrees with a point they must therefore hold the complete opposite as true
>Even when they are constantly stating that is not the case in multiple posts

That is actually the most profoundly stupid thing I've read on /tg/ in months. Well done. I'm actually stunned.