Warmachine/Hordes General /whg/

File: 1466005091325.jpg (137KB, 800x527px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 800x527px

>>47872192
First for nomads.

Skreeonk skreeonk skreeonk skreeonk

who's ready for some sweet Skorne chat

>>47872297
>Wonder why nomads are memey
>P+S 18 and P+S 14 weapon
>Armor 19 front arc
>30 damage boxes

>Armor 21 while engaged because of Magnus
>SPEED 7 WITH ESCORT

>ONLY 11 FUCKING POINTS

HOLY SHIT

>>47872493
it's not SPD 7, they can't run 14 inches. It's +2 movement.

Fair and balanced.

Significantly worse than anything the mighty Skorne Empire can bring to bear, however. They have cannons.

>>47872548
Still a 10" charge.

>>47872559
Still not SPD 7.

Now how about them titans?

>>47872548
>the leader of the faction is literally named Loss

Why would anyone expect anything out of Skorne?

>>47872737

no one wants to hear about the worst faction. The retribution kicked your asses in Ios

>>47872957
so what if they were basically conquered by one guy who's not even a warcaster.

Skorne is legit, baby

>>47872297
Am I being memed on? Where is he getting focus to power nine nomads?

>>47872957
>the leader of the faction is literally named Loss
With a lot of creative interpretation.

>>47873075
Power Up

So when do the new rules for the units come out?
My pals and me bought in on 2nd edition, but don't have a lot of room to wiggle around with units, so we want to know if we will stick with 2nd edition for a bit (because our lists definitely work there) or if we can go right ahead with 3rd.

>>47873168
You can start playing Mk3 Skorne RIGHT NOW.

Download "War Room 2" from your friendly app store platform of choice, and buy that Skorne deck.

The only things missing are some friends and some SKREEONK

>>47873168
>>47873198
Or download the rules PDFs. Or buy the cards. Or wait for WHAC.

>>47873224
>Or download the rules PDFs
Seems like I'm retarded then, because I could only find the Prime download, which has no units.
Where's the other pdfs then?

>>47873198
We've only bought Warmachine armies, so no Skorne now.

File: kodiak-warpwolf.jpg (102KB, 484x330px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 484x330px

I'm curious about kitchen table warmahorde. Did someone tried Rumble format? how did It goes?

>>47873406
>Where's the other pdfs then?
There are leaked PDFs floating around in case you want to cheap out on the rules.

>>47873076
Not too much.

>>47873409
we do a few variant formats including 'jack wrastlin' which limits factions to only warjacks with open fists and can only use power attacks.
Though we brought back head and arm locks for it.

File: Lucant1_75(1).png (186KB, 421x793px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 421x793px

Alright, so with the MK3 change, I'm thinking about trying the Lucant Galvanizer spam idea, and I'm curious to see how it goes.

It kept all the benefits, but got cheaper, and Galvanizers picked up 1" melee and two boxes. So the entire package is now worth almost 50 more boxes than a unit of Recips.

File: Caine2_75.png (175KB, 421x648px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 421x648px

Playing around with this, sort of trying to maximize Grievous Wounds while Storm Knights crack ARM. Unfinished though and I could use some advice on completing it.

File: 20160620_010429-1.jpg (3MB, 2236x2236px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2236x2236px

Bumping with super phoned in paint job. What is everyone else working on?

Post pictures of whatever goofy stuff your painting.

Anyone see any good 3e Darius lists yet?

>>47873409
meh.
It's warmachine, but you fight in waves rather than with your whole army.
It gets old quick.
It doesn't live up to the hype.

Then again none of mk3 lives up to the hype.

>>47872493
Still not as good as Amon running Crusaders.

it's close, though

File: Asphyxious1_75.png (199KB, 421x687px) Image search: [Google]

199KB, 421x687px

Check muh list plz niggas;

>>47875286
A subtle mix of Crusaders and light WJs (Devouts, Dervishes, Purifiers (once they exist) Repenters, Vigilants and even Revengers.

Now that's a polyvalent list that will kick all sorts of ass.

>>47875287
Mech thralls are garbage now
Replace with bane knights and win

>>47875393
but they are cheap and repop ?!
surely recursion can still be useful?

How many points is a unit of bane knights?

>>47875431
>How many points is a unit of bane knights?
Literally use the website you made your list in to check

>>47875254
This poster is a trashy player that wants to play 100 points so he can fit all of his infantry :^)

File: grim_2_progress.png (734KB, 811x556px) Image search: [Google]

734KB, 811x556px

>>47874881
>goofy stuff your painting.
My stuff is not goofy.

It is grim.

>>47875287
I'd replace party worm and the reaper with DJ and all of your infantry choices with 2 units of bane knights, BLT and Darragh Wraith. Alternativly, consider Blood Witches + Hag

>>47875872
Your color palette looks nice. I'd say that he needs a good wash to really pop, but otherwise he looks great.

>>47875905
Oh! And wrong eye and snap jaw are bananas

>>47875872
The colors are good, but in desperate need of shading.

>>47876447

In fairness he's clearly not finished.

>>47875713
oh wow, so troll, many funny.

>>47876652
shit posters leave

>>47876689
yeah, get them outta here so the real Skorne chat can begin

>>47876513
>>47876447
Yeah, I've only really finished the skin so far. Will post back when everything is done (assuming I get around to it).

>>47876689
yeah you best get out then faggot.

>>47875713
It sounds more like you're a cunt. Have you even tried rumble variant? Not many people have and it doesn't look like it is going to be used often.

asked last thread, then passed out and it 404d, how are cephalyx doing in the new edition?

>>47877832

Mostly a lateral change. Drudges can't punch the world to death nearly as well since they lost 1 P+S and Agitate no longer benefits them. But Overlords have Veteran Leader for Drudges, and Mind Slavers have a far more effective way to create new Drudges. A lot of Cephalyx swapped Sac Pawn for Stealth, which is objectively way worse. They lost access to Cryx solos, but the Dominator went up to FA: 2. But Monstrosities remain disgustingly cheap, their Warcasters are great, and their theme force is baller as fuck.

>>47877832
still a meme army

>>47877953
See >>47876689

>>47877832
Their theme is baller. For taking them, you get:
>For every 30 pts. of Drudge units, you get a free Overlord unit
>Monstrosities gain Hyper Aggressive
>One unit of Mind Slaver and Drudges gets to Ambush

File: image.jpg (73KB, 494x720px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 494x720px

Anyone got Wild Adventure?

Did they move the story forward?

>>47878076
Been asking this for several threads now. Don't think anyone does yet.

>>47875431
Speaking as probably the biggest fan of McThralls on the planet: Nope. Might as well melt all of them or use them for bits. They're fucking shit now.

>>47878066
that is real fuckin fancy

On a different note: am I the only one who thinks PP fucked up big time at Lock and Load? Like, they really dropped the fucking ball.

>>47878433
That's been the general consensus.

>>47878433
I heard rumors from our local PPIDF that their marketing manager got fired over LnL's presentation, but I don't know if I buy it.

LnL was the cherry on top of their poorly mismanaged MK3 release campaign.

>>47878491
With PP I wouldn't be surprised if they did fire him actually. Well, if we see a job posting in the next year, I guess we'll know.

What are the toughest factions on both sides?

>>47878578
I mean, if we do, it's pretty easy to understand why. Most of this shit was his job, ultimately.

PP has a hard enough time not being businessmen by trade, having a marketing manager do this shit is just terrible for them.

>>47878491
>>47878610
Simon Berman was quitting Privateer Press confirmed since last month but stayed on until the end of Lock and Load (he's the guy that organized them all to date). He left to pursue his own publications or something of the sort.

>>47878600
Warmachine? Convergence. They lost some of it in the new edition, but they're still the toughest nut to crack.

Hordes? Trolls.

>>47878433
Depends on who you ask. If you were actually at the convention it was great. If you were in Europe it sucked

>>47878600
Define toughest, if you mean longest table presence then probably Trolls and Convergence

>>47878657
Highest arm, boxes and other ways of reducing fiat damage taken (so def is a no no).

>>47878656
I mean, the Convention itself was fine, but ultimately 90% of the interactions there were with other players, so of course you'll enjoy that.

But the official stuff, like the keynote? It was insane. I mean, unless you enjoy watching Matt direct people to where to buy shit.

And PP has still refused to say anything about it either.

>>47878676
Convergence, full stop.

Lucant, Syntherion, and Axis all have ways of stopping the enemy from getting there, and prefer bricky lists. Lucant was the king of it in MK2, though he lost one of his best spells for it, he's in some ways gotten even better at taking it on the chin and then just ignoring what the fuck they just hit you with.

File: mattrekeynote.png (183KB, 1725x829px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 1725x829px

>>47878679
>And PP has still refused to say anything about it either.

>>47878656
I was at the one in Germany myself, which wasn't the best convention (even the stuff that had nothing to do with PP was kinda bad), I was just curious what people thought of the actual LnL.

>>47878679
They did talk about the key note. Sorry version is they're sorry, they just really wanted to get the Mk3 stuff out and going and that was that.

Basically just mismanaged expectations on their part since they figured people wanted to play games, not listen to previews for Level 7.

I have finally understood how to fix trolls and make them not feel underwhelming. Behold my genius.
>ban KSB
>all models get +2ARM +1STR
>point costs stay the same

>>47878820
trolls are fine

>>47878820
>Kriel Warriors, Scouts, Skinners, Highwaymen, and Sluggers are still trash
Sounds good to me

Everytime I look at the Earthborn card, I feel a sadness inside.

>>47878838
Trolls are strongly meh and overpriced when compared with other factions especially now that you cant run all the support. Fenns and mauler are their only two good models outside of locks.

>>47878874
Have you played games or have you only looked at cards?

>>47878755
>>47878794
Interesting, though I don't think it really covers as much as it should. Even if they wanted to have the keynote be shortened, they should have done something to talk about the new edition. It's not like it needed to be LnL focused, they absolutely could have released the video solely though the internet and people would have been happy.

>>47878874
>Fenns and mauler are their only two good models outside of locks
Oh God, it's retarded.

I'll help you out here though since you appear to have forgotten about Champions, Fire Eaters, Warders, Krielstone, fell caller, Rok, Bomber, slag Troll, Storm Troll, Mountain King, Long Riders, and whole pile of other stuff.

>>47878933
>they should have done something to talk about the new edition
Not sure if Matt mentioned it in that post or another one but basically he said we've been talking about the new edition on the forums and on primecast for the last two months. There really isn't anything else to talk about right now.

>>47878967
I guess part of my complaint is that they did such a shitty job talking about Mk3 on the forums, so being told that doesn't really convince me of much.

>>47878755
I know he sounds sincere, and this is probably all true.

But the man is still a giant bag of dicks. Just wanted to remind everyone.

>>47879021
It's a lot of words that basically boils down to "working is hard"

>>47879021

Go on.

>>47872489
What kind of chart?

>>47878948
Champions lost two arm for two def in melee which makes them still impossible to miss but significantly squishier. Hero lost reach and cant be buffed by animi so he no longer swats infantry. Champs cant move through each other. Warders are the best shield guard on a stick around, but there is hardly anything worth protecting with so many points. Fell caller is not good, its necessary to make up for the downsides. It no longer pays of to take pyre to ignite fire eaters. I cant be bothered writing more on my phone. Point being other factions got everything better.

>>47879060
You know how War Room and Tactics are both shit? Mostly this guy's fault in both instances.

>>47878081
Vinter attacked cygnar
Magnus killed vinter and Leto let julius take the throne
Julius sues for peace and gets a truce with khador
Vlad is engaged to the empress of khador now
toruk is healing up after a dragon fight and consuming an athanc
goreshade rallies the iosans to fight and defeat the skorne in shyrr
sevy barely survives an assassination attempt by zerkova
protectorate sends emissaries to zu

>>47879092
>things are different from Mark 2
No shit sherlock.
Every faction got nerfed.

>>47879145
Except for Khador. Most of their stuff got better. A lot better.

>>47879145
Name a dedicated melee 10 man worse than kriels. Name a dedicated shooting 10 man worse than bushwhackers. Name a heavy more useless than EBDT.

>>47879092
You're complaints about Champions basically boil down to 'playing is hard, wah'. And you don't need a Pyre to ignite Fire Eaters btw, they can do it in their own.

Are you sure you're not retarded?

>>47879133
Wait, where's a lot of this shit from?

>>47878990
Don't know what else to tell ya besides everything sucks and the ship is sinking fast. PP knows this and we'll see how things shake out but the game is going to fold under the relentless pressure of better or more popular games.

>>47879181
McThralls

WGI

>>47879219
I'm less pissed about Mk3 itself, I overall like the direction the game has taken.

It's just their public image of the new edition and a lot of their changes has been so insanely terrible.

>>47879184
Power 14 shooting kills champs on average rolls.

>>47879181
Ok

Sword Knights
Kossites
Circle Goat heavies

>>47879226
I second the McThralls. Can't hit infantry, can't damage even a light jack

>>47879219
>new product sold out world wide
>LnL had more people at it than ever before
>hurr durr guyz the ship is sinking
literal kek

>>47879242
As it should? Thats heavy warjack shooting, of you're pointing a Defender canon at my Champs you should probably kill one of them.

>>47879255

I just assumed he was a Guild Ball player. Every single one I've met has gone out of his way to tell me how much better it is than WM/H and won't take the hint to shut up and just enjoy their game.

>>47879198
Prime. I didn't include Primal's shit cause I don't have it.

>>47879267
>what is CRA

>>47879276
Primal is really just a lot of pages telling us everything's almost the same as before, except there are some trolls south of Protectorate now.

>>47879300

That thing that kills most other infantry too, for less investment than killing Champs?

>>47879326

Any word on what's going on with Saeryn and Rhyas? Were the Skorne driven out of Ios, or do they have territory?

>>47879300
Sure? You're putting 4+ dudes into maybe killing one Champ. I don't see the issue here. Troll heavy infantry should be tough for individual dudes to kill, not unkillable monsters. The days of MMM are over

>>47879335
A 10 man pow 10 ranged unit kills champs in two turns without having champs even touch them.

>>47879133
>Goreshade rallies the Iosans to fight and defeat the Skorne in Shyrr

AHHHHHH, MY DIIIIIIICK!

"Sup, guys. I came back to save Scyrah. No, really. Let my elite undead troops win this fight for you to prove my worth and superiority."

It'll be a severe missed opportunity if Ghyrrshyld and Ossyan don't have some awkward dialogue.

>>47879274
>Other games more popular than Warmahordes
>Xwing
>40k

>Games that are better and getting more popular
>Infinity
>Malifaux
>Guild Ball

Warmahordes is fucked

>>47879384
It shouldnt be unkillable. It should though be able to suck up more pain than their point equivalent in other factions to compensate for lacking mobility.

>>47879255
Every new edition generates buzz. It's the question of how long it lasts. I mean, I went to lock and load but I spent so little money in the shops. The key note was laughably bad, and majority of the insiders were met with so much hostility.

I don't think the game became more accessible either.

>>47879438
OK, so how is taking a combined shot from four or five dudes or a heavy jack not exactly that? Plus tough on top of that I think you're overestimating what Champs are supposed to do. This isn't Mk2

>>47879492
What are they supposed to do? Enlighten me.

>>47879485
>and majority of the insiders were met with so much hostility.
That's because power levels were pulled back (also bad writing) - people don't like nerfs. They only want to see buffs. But nerfs are the driving factor behind balancing games, and idiots don't realize that.

>>47879438
Why not follow them up with a unit of Warders to shieldguard the Champs?
Or possibly screen with a cheap throwaway unit like Kriels?

>>47879553
Why not give them old defensive line back? Its not like they were op before.

>>47879544
Charge and murder things with weapon master attacks? You have to screen them to get them there dude, but if you don't suck it shouldn't be a problem

>>47879553
>using multiple units in a synergistic fashion that isn't just straight buffs
M8 I'm not playing logistics simulator 2016 I just want to steam roll with blue orks

>>47879406
Not just saved the elves, he's champion of Scyrah now. God given forgiveness/validation.

>>47879133
>Magnus killed vinter and Leto let julius take the throne

So is Magnus back with Cygnar now?

>>47879876

No. He's been pardoned for being a murderous terrorist but he's still a Merc for now so Julius can consolidate his position and have a network of outsider allies.

File: Troll doctors advise patients that remaining standing increases survival rates by 33%.jpg (349KB, 900x1890px) Image search: [Google]

349KB, 900x1890px

>>47872369
It's the shitty comic signal!

File: Trollbloods MK III Logistics Simulator 2016.png (13KB, 538x696px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 538x696px

>>47879714
Just keep moving forward!

>>47878885
Are you implying that game play performance can't be inferred from looking at the cards?

>>47880208
It can, but it isn't the end-all-be-all. You can theory craft all you want, but in the end, you need to play it to know for sure.

>>47880222
This is a fair point. MK II eZaal was the end times for Skorne; right up until someone put him on the table and started winning tournaments.

>>47880318
It was similar with like, Una the Falconer. Everyone looked at her on paper and said "Gryphons are trash" and then she gained a lot of popularity fairly quickly after that.
Or probably the best example - Warders. Trolls got Warders, and the first week and a half said "this unit is trash, they're just weaker champions, why do trolls never get good new releases?". And then it came obvious that champs were just weaker Warders.

>>47880361

Ghetorix and Vayl2 were called trash upon release, too.

>Play Makeda1
>Assassinate with Molik Karn
Really makes you think.

>>47879133
>goreshade rallies the iosans to fight and defeat the skorne in shyrr

>>47879764
>he's champion of Scyrah now. God given forgiveness/validation.

No fucking way. NO FUCKING WAY.

Did he admit he was wrong like Nyssor said or something? Did he finally pull together the humility to admit he fucked up and make an amazing try at redemption?

Oh god I'm so hyped for Retshade4.

>>47879546
No nerfs were fine. People were fine with nerf to mage hunter strike force. Insiders were just posting nerfs with zero explanations.
" We nerfed the errants so idrians are the premier shooting unit" *proceeds to talk nothing about idrians to make sure they aren't the garbage they were*

Or they missed the fucking point.
"Elemental light animi are self now... but the gun is bit longer"

For something that's supposed to generate hype and clarity in purpose, they didn't do either. Fucking stupid.

>>47880318
The problem with MK2 Zaal2 is that players made him competitive by ignoring 90% of his rules cards, and just spamming constructs with his feat. Don't cast spells, don't use any of his abilities.

He was absolute trash if you tried to do anything his card actually wanted you to do.

>>47880361
Griffons were trash until rotterhorn

Just updated conflictchamber.com with a few new things:

- The icons at the bottom of the army list have been made consistent across browsers, so they should now display on anything you throw at it.

- Added a Steamroller mode; at present, lists in Steamroller mode just allow Steamroller objectives and validation checks to make sure you pick one. In the future, Steamroller mode will allow two lists to be edited at once and print Steamroller record sheets.

- Custom encounter sizes are now allowed on the main menu.

Next thing up is going to be changing encounter size from inside a list instead of just at the main menu.

>>47880906

thx low

File: RowdyGentlemen_400x400.jpg (25KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 400x400px

>>47879947
Hrmmmm... well, the comic implies that Hoarluk is unable to properly fulfill his duties as a warlock since he is not as tough as he used to be. I feel this punch line doesn't work very well since the same rules apply to the other, younger warlocks as well. Borka also loses tough when he falls down, does that mean he is old and fragile as well? The accents were also difficult to get through and it causes quite a bit of disconnect from the characters since they don't speak with accents in the actual backstory.

5/10 good try old chap, but there are things to work on.

>>47881050
Don't both versions of Borka have some version of steady, and Grissel able to get it as well?

>>47879420
that just your unnecessary opinion there fuckface?

>>47881050
Well I certainly didn't say it was good comic time

I admit, I don't know the source material.
Don't know the stats for anything outside Cryx, just came up with the punchline and went from there.

>>47881100
Sales reports have shown that to be true.

Stop being a fuckface, fuckface.

>>47881100
Talk to your distributors

>>47879276
any pdfs of prime?

>>47880528
>muh cryx casters

>>47879247
Why'd they kill the goats? Why, they were so cute :V(

>>47881426

No one ever took them so PP tried to give them a different niche

>>47881464
I honestly think that "Budget heavy" is slang for "Useless model we couldn't get rid of" in PP language.

>>47881426
>>47881464
I actually think the riphorn is useful, mainly due to free charges, chain attack, and bulldoze animus. That said, the problem is I wouldn't consider putting one down without every other warpwolf I want already being on the table, so I've only tried them with the Kayas.

>>47881557

Heh, maybe. I'm dubious how well the "budget heavy" concept will work out, but if people are open-minded we might be surprised.

>>47881464

They did kinda give them a niche, but it's so niche (and they're so bad outside of it) that they'll be taken in the lists they're meant to be in and nowhere else.

e.g., Riphorn with eKromac and Gnarlhorn with Tanith. And nowhere else.

I'm new to this shit do you glue your models to the bases before or after you decorate the base?

>>47881597
Budget heavies are great in Warmachine due to Power Up and them largely getting cheap across the board.

Not so much in Hordes with reduced fury management and less point cost reductions.

>>47881604
>Implying I've based my models
If I ever do I'll just dab PVA glue on the base and put sand and tiny rocks on it.

So how does self-sacrifice work in Mk3? Before it denied the shit out of destroy related shit but now I don't know.

>>47881604
For a very intricate base I might wait to glue it on, but for most models I glue it first. It can sometimes be hard to glue it later, since paint and any sand/flock/rocks you might have added aren't the best receptors for glue.

>>47881597
The problem is their concept of what budget is.

Like, Convergence has a great budget heavy in the form of the Modulator. Cheap as shit, comes with two guns and two initials, defensive tech against certain kinds of infantry, and has tons of in faction ways to support it.

Hordes budget heavies are terrible though, almost zero utility, and a lot of their support works so much better on bigger heavies.

Is Ret's Imperatus the equivalent of the main factions' Apotheosis jacks?

>>47881807
Pretty much, yea.

>>47881807

I enjoy the Ret player tears over Phoenix Protocol being shut down by Grievous Wounds so easily now.

Would anyone mind informing me of how tall the plastic Seraph/Neraph and the Blight Wasps are? Measurements, comparison pics, or whatever are fine.

>>47882120
any ret player who doesn't wipe any model with GW off the board by turn 3 is a bad ret player.

>>47881604
My go to method for a long while was to tear up some corkboard, glue it to the base, and then glue modeling sand in all of the barren sections.

The best way to get your models to stand on it though, is to cut off the molding bar on their feet, which for hundreds of little metal dudes is a real pain in the dick.

>>47882309

Caine2 and Alten?

>>47882338
I also use painter's tape to cover any slots in the base when I base using cork/sand/grit

>>47882372
I'll give ya Caine2, but if you want to get witin 17 inches from where ever my imperatus was, im okay with that.

alten is a non-issue, ret has top line solo hunters

>>47881601
Why the Gnarlhorn with Tanith exactly?

>>47882775
Counterslam + Admonition. Counterslam is bad normally because it's usually easy to work around by the other guy moving stuff in, but Admonition lets you trigger it first to set up the Counterslam.

>>47882904
how do you decide what triggers first? the counterslam or admotion? if a heavy was to charge your gnarlhorn?

>>47883386
When things trigger at the same time, you decide the order since they're your triggers.

>Ghost Sniper
>Lost both Stealth and Camouflage

Why? Why lose both?

I think only Arcanists have less survivability than them. Five boxes at 11 armor? Even an average blast would likely kill him. An average gun shot would obliterate him.

>>47883437

Everyone lost Camo.

>>47883473
Why is camo out?

>>47883851


Redundant range defense rule

>>47881249
Sales trends for the last couple of years have been slumping hard for PP product. Partially to blame was the lack of true balanced options in the miniatures front as the people who play PP games would field a pewter turd if it gave them some sort of advantage but would never field a 10/10 sculpt if the rules were shit.

Long story short...not everything can be OP so most models sat forever on the distributors shelves. MKIII was probably planned years ahead but true play testing probably didn't happen until the last couple of years when the more active erratta came out for MKII. Its easier to test some changes with new editions and feed them piecemeal to existing editions than testing both simultaneously.

MKIII is make it or break it time for PP. Their attempts to diversify haven't been doing well and have had little traction outside their loyal fan base. Their loyal fan base has proven to not be loyal when a model doesn't meet a very high bar for viability.

MKIII was from the get-go created to correct any shortcomings that could arise from the continuous release process. MKIIIs main goal is to keep outliers in check to keep the game fluid where the players have proven to not want to shake things up themselves.

....This is a huge post and I'm in full ramble mode, but I truly hope this pays off for PP. It's very hard to please a tournament focused crowd, but PP made their bed and have to lay in it. Also I can't post this on the forums because I'll get a shit ton of PMs and post replies about how I'm wrong etc without any sort of counterargument.

>>47883851
They made concealment much harder for non-Pathfinder models to gain the benefit of, so they felt that Pathfinder models having camo was redundant, and just led to DEF skew.

Less things ignore concealment now as well.

File: Persona.gif (2MB, 256x192px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 256x192px

>>47883986
Shit. All that wall of text and I replied to the wrong person.


Maybe the forums aren't so bad for this.

Where were you when Dawnguard Destors were kill?

>>47884050


You mean slightly more usable than they were before?

>>47882120
There's like 4 guys who are crying and refuse to accept that you just don't throw him against anything with Greivous Wounds. It's not rocket science

>>47884108
>Slightly more usable
>Kill charge target with Assault
>Can't redirect Lance
>0.5" Melee with the cannon
>20 Points

>>47883986
I think there's more of a modeling and painting community to warmachine than seems obvious at first, because the tourney community just takes up so much of the visible spectrum of PP's events. They clearly want to cater to these people as well, it's just hard as hell to judge how successful it ever is.

>>47884146


Gunfighter can be used against any model engaging the model with gunfighter.

Point blank is just a flat 0.5 range

And yes still slightly more usable. Storm lances have the same issue and are still fine

>>47884146
Pretty sure you can just not take the assault shot if you're trying to stay at 2" melee, then just take the quick work shot.

>>47884245
Except Storm Lances don't have the restriction on their Lances. Also Brutal Charge.
If you don't get to make a charge attack, your engagement range is still 0.5" with Gunfighter.

>>47884256
At that point I could get the same work done for less points

>>47884310
I mean, that depends on what you're doing.

Anyways, way are you charging at 2" against a model you're likely to kill with the assault shot?

Why not charge to the .5", kill the model with assault, redirect the lance into something else, then quick work a third model?

>>47884335
Because you can't redirect the Lance. You can use the Lance unless it's a charge attack. Once you redirect the attack, it's no longer a charge.

>>47884291


Unless the enemy also has 2" RNG, in which case your gunfighter would be engaged with them.

>>47884395
Gunfighter says if you have no melee weapon at the time, your melee range is 0.5". If they're at 2" you're not using your gun as a gunfighter melee attack

>>47884364
It never says its not a charge attack, just that its no longer boosted.

The wording sucks, both in the charge section and on the lance rule.

File: Lylyth3_75.png (173KB, 421x640px) Image search: [Google]

173KB, 421x640px

Playing with a build.

>>47884652
My god I'll just go use the 20 points on something that isn't finicky as fuck and will get punted into the next decade if it gets even remotely close enough

>good players
Destors have assault? Cool, now I can shoot models from halfway across the table and be in position to charge next turn.
>bad players
I can't ASSAULT AND HIT THEM WITH MY LANCE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY DEAD? FUCKING SHIT

File: mist speaker wip2.png (507KB, 448x610px) Image search: [Google]

507KB, 448x610px

>>47874881
Here's what I worked on today. I really like this model, but I couldn't really tell what was going on with the staff and idol thing he was carrying, so they're pretty not well done.

>>47884746


This desu. Steelhead cav are great partlybecause they can deliver rat 7 pow 14s at a 19" range with Damiano,

>>47884746
You know what? Yeah I am a shit player. I'll just go use my 20 points on something else that will get the same work done.

>>47884712
>>47885112
Ok, go do that, and stop being a bitch about it.

>>47880689

This is true.

>We also had to wait for the Extoller Advocate to be available.

File: 1398048873903.png (472KB, 706x543px) Image search: [Google]

472KB, 706x543px

man painting is too fucking hard this thing I'm painting looks fucking horrible so far

>>47885322
Painting is easy friend! Just take it slow. If you want you can post mini and we can give tips.

>>47885322
Like in all other things, in order to be good at painting, you just need to practice. Don't worry if it's coming out badly. You can just strip the paint off later and try again.

File: IMG_0175.jpg (1MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3264x2448px

>>47885543
All I have is my phone camera and the lightning in my room sucks.

I'm fucking horrible at staying in the lines or whatever. Like I keep getting red in the white and white on the red parts. I've never been good at art I don't know I thought I could do this.

File: IMG_0175.jpg (1MB, 2448x3264px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2448x3264px

>>47885626
I don't know why it's horizontal like that. Hopefully this fixed it.

I also glued on that piece between the legs on crooked.

>>47885626
>>47885657
I also gave up for the night

>>47885626
Well. First things first. You should prime the model. Priming is spray painting the model so that paint goes on it easier. Black primer works well for beginners. White is also a good choice, and it might be better since you're working with white.

>>47885657

you need to prime it first, it gives the paint something to stick to

>>47885657
run that spear under warm-hot water for a bit and bend it into shape, also be sure to apply the paint in lots of thin layer rather than one thick one.

>>47885667
>>47885679
Well great one more thing I need to order off Amazon. I also need to get some metal looking paint for the screws and the spear.

>>47885667
Any recommended primer? The P3 shit is $20 a can on Amazon.

File: IMG_0599.jpg (468KB, 900x780px) Image search: [Google]

468KB, 900x780px

>>47885758
I use 99cent primer that I buy at Walmart.

>>47885758

krylon fusion is fairly cheap and easy to find

>>47885758
make sure whatever primer you buy is NOT gloss

File: 1438112297595.png (738KB, 584x600px) Image search: [Google]

738KB, 584x600px

>>47884148
Yeah, remember that pewter turd remark?

Most of the amazing sculpt work I've seen done has been on models that really need it.

I've seen some awesome Irusk conversions and some really good Ashlynn conversions.

So to you I say, yes there is a sizable contingent of players that care just as much about having nice looking models as well as good performing models.

The key word there is good performing, so we are still talking a fringe of a fringe.

I'm just happy MKIII has card updates so some of the stuff I play stands a chance at getting play from either the main meta oppressor getting nerfed or the model itself getting buffed.
Even though we know it's only.meta oppressor models that will get nerfed.

>>47885703
>>47885758
Just get some matte krylon or something from walmart or an auto shop.

What I do to prime:
I put painters tape around the base of my model.to keep it from getting colored by whatever base I use.
Make sure to shake the can for about a minute or so.
Hold it about four or five inches away and level with your model.
Start spraying and just make two or three passes in slow arcs
Let it dry. COMPLETELY. I wait about five minutes.
Once it is dry take a look at it to see how well covered it is.
Turn it 90 degrees and spray again, then wait to dry.
Repeat until you model is well covered.
At this point I usually do a pass from above and below to hit the spots that the straight on didn't get well.

Important tips:
DO NOT TOUCH YOU MODEL IF IT MIGHT BE WET. You'll mess up the coat and might need to clean the model and start again.

ALWAYS GO LIGHTER THAN YOU THINK It can be really easy to glob on spraypaint. So spending more time on doing thin coats will save you the potential hours it can take to get your model cleaned up.

And above all, try to find a way to enjoy it. I find painting relaxing and enjoyable. I either put on some music or a netflix movie I've already seen and just relax. The feel of having a painted army on the table is incredible really.

Any tips on puttying seamlines? I find actually smearing the greenstuff into the gaps really difficult to do properly.

>>47881807
No because Apotheosis jacks are characterised by their lack of affinities/bonds.

>>47886474
Apotheosis jacks don't have affinities/bonds. They're the Thunderhead, Behemoth, Avatar, and Deathjack.

>>47878793
>I was at the one in Germany myself, which wasn't the best convention
What was wrong with it? I had a total blast.

>>47886630
Do you know what lack means?

Does anyone have trollblood cards for MkIII?

>>47886412
Because you aren't supposed to put it in gaps that are already glued. You need to sandwich greenstuff or whatever between the parts as you glue and assemble. And don't forget that greenstuff isn't glue so try to go
(Model)glue(putty)glue(model)
And press together until the slightest bit poops out. Let it dry a bit then scrape off that excess and you're good.

>>47887298
Oh, and instead of scraping excess, I usually try to judge my portions carefully because it's much better to use a rubber-tipped clay shaping tool to press the putty around until it sits smooth and flush.

>>47885657

>Menoth
>Trump hat in the background

It makes perfect sense.

>>47872493
Throw Gallant in there, he's DEF13 for some fucking reason, so DEF15 under Bullet Dodger. 15/19(21) with sacred ward and dodge is the worst fucking thing to kill if you don't have a reliable knockdown.

>>47875286
I'd argue they're at least even, Amon is super focus starved outside his feat turn (2 upkeeps and 3-cost mobility off FOC6), and while Mobility gives Pathfinder while Escort doesn't a Nomad naturally threats 2" farther than a Crusader, and Magnus' feat is basically a timewalk.

>>47881597
It depends. For example I totally love the Ironclad. I can slap Lightning Shroud on it and have it kill another more expensive heavy along with whoever is unfortunateenough to be standing nearby.

>>47881604
I'm a lazy sod and use scenic resin bases. So I guess afterwards.

>>47881597
Works fine on the Warmachine side of things where a "budget" heavy is still probably swinging at P+S18 and costs 10-12pts, Hordes not so much, fuck Satyrs.

>>47883404
>>47883386
Not 100% true:

1. triggers on the active model that don't generate attacks
2. triggers on the active model that generate attacks
3. triggers on the controlling players models
4. triggers on the opposing players models

Within those steps the player controlling the triggers gets to choose the order.

>>47887706
Imo the Satyrs aren't so bad with the right Warlock.

Primalled and with Stone Skin/Forced Evo/etc a Riphorn is still swinging at P+S 19, and Aggressive + Chain Attack pretty much makes up for the Fury 3 instead of 4.

Even at P+S 17, a charging Riphorn is still averaging at 31.5 boxes against an ARM 20 heavy.

I'm not certain about the Shadowhorn, but it could work reasonably well if you treat it as a utility Light over a heavy, and have it Beatback/Throw things out of zones, hunt solos, jam up units, etc.

Gnarlhorn seems pretty mediocre though. Ideally they ditch it's animus and give it Rush (or Bounding again) instead.

>>47885626
>>47885667
>>47885657
And before priming you should wash your models. Soap and water will do, just make sure to get teh soap off the model before you're done. Then prime and start painting. That way, the color will stay on the model.

>>47886202
>Even though we know it's only.meta oppressor models that will get nerfed
I'm also afraid that PP will only base their errata on the American meta like they used to do. Take Storm Lances for example. They were totally legit in MK2, but Americans never used them. So they got 4-5 different buffs in Mk3 and are now absolute beasts. I don't personally mind, as I love my Storm Lances, but it comes across as rather limited in insight.

>>47887803
You know, every time I hear about Europe loving the shit out of storm lances, I could never fucking figure it out, especially before Haley3.

They just fucking die, man.

>>47887813
I put Arcane Shield on mine and move it to a heavy late game. Storm Lances were a unit that took a bit of practice to use though, most importantly when to commit them. They can remove tons of infantry if you combine them with Rangers and then wreck a heavy or some med Infantry in late-game.

holy shit the skorne forum at privateer is fucking delusional. You have all the most successful players like Martin Hornacek saying shit is bad

but then you get the same cluster of users saying "no no, we love our nerfed krea. we love our nerfed titan statline they're sooooo tough and we're such a real competitive faction."

Either they don't actually play the game, or they play against absolute shitters and go bunny bashing with skorne. But somehow i'm thinking its the former because mk3 hasn't even been out that long.

I say give the skorne forums two months. in two months there won't be anyone left except the most devout fanboys.

>>47887813

They're really buffable. In my eHaley list i bring rhupert for pathfinder and concealment support as needed, and when i combine deflection and concealment they're 17/17. That's without even bringing something like a jr with a charger who can easily make them 17/20 which is pretty fucking incredible (still only 13/20 in melee though, its more about the approach)

>>47887903
I've heard optimism from some actually good Skorne players. It's true that some of our stuff is unusable trash now, but the faction as a whole is still playable.

>>47887930
I really want to play them with Maddox. Early game they get Snipe. After shooting they'll be 15" away from what they shot. Late game they get AS/betterAS and charge something to death.

>>47883404
>>47887719
Fuck that was actually changed. Now it's:
1. active player before inactive player
2. non-attack before attack

>>47887903
All factions are the same. Hell, all game forums are the same. And no, they don't play the game, or play a different one called the forum.

From Primal MK3:
"A Gatorman Husk has the Death Blast special
rule, which causes it to explode when disabled."

So, what is a Gatorman Husk?

>>47887903
After the smoke has cleared, things are starting to look a little better.

Like, even the BE doesn't feel as bad as it first was, because when you really look at it, it hits as hard as one of their heavies with very little support, and the change to the rage tokens means that it doesn't lose anything for using them. Like, it's not the range platform it used to be, but it's melee ability is quite a bit better.

>>47888541
Probably a new unit, like Farrow Valkyries

>>47887361
Well Menoth isn't a racist/speciest. But the whole wall thingy is true.

File: 1439023628671.gif (1MB, 380x262px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 380x262px

>tfw Mercenaries are now much better
>tfw you play Mercs
>tfw Commodore Cannon for days

>>47889071
Are you sure about that?

>>47881587
In the same boat for the moment. I think they probably did price the goats low enough to at least be interesting (2 warpwolves could be 3 goats, that's not nothing). But as a few people pointed out, Hordes is better at supporting a few higher quality models.

I'm thinking I might try running some goats with Kromac1. He's got the tools to buff them, and Warpath is one of those effects that gets exponentially more ridiculous with a large battlegroup.

>>47887903
>we love our nerfed krea
Well the Krea is cheaper, has an extra box, and has a bigger bubble now.

>we love our nerfed titan statline
All titans got a chunk cheaper, and the Agonizer basically gives all of your models in an 8" bubble +2ARM, so for the 2DEF they lost, they gained 2ARM which is a huge deal since they were already very high armour.

It's impossible to talk about the viability of Skorne without talking about the Agonizer at this point because it's probably the biggest buff the faction got. Shooting damage is generally quite low so won't break normal armour, and melee hits have to contend with the Agonizer bubble. Cetrati are now 22ARM with every warlock, which I'd say makes up for losing 1DEF and 3 boxes. Hell use Xerxis and they go up to 26ARM on feat turn. An Enraged Bronzeback bouncing off your "nerfed" infantry?

So, when playing against TK (and rampager and domination casters) without some form of anti magic to stop them using rampager or TK on your models,

what is the best way to play against that? Been having trouble with eHaley, Rahn, Thexus etc

>>47879764

You have got to be shitting me. My 'I vivisect children' is now the champion of Scyrah?

How could Ossyan even stick about Retribution if Goreshade is back? I mean, his entire life goal was to prove him and his house is NOT like Goreshade.

>>47879406
>It'll be a severe missed opportunity if Ghyrrshyld and Ossyan don't have some awkward dialogue
I think this is a job for Skreeonk Anon.

File: 1466480944402.jpg (193KB, 1024x1016px) Image search: [Google]

193KB, 1024x1016px

>>47889272
>tfw non-privateer merc player

Rhulic artillery is nice but it's not... The Commodore.

>>47889988
Yes, read the Ik sourcebooks. Menithes dont give a shit about what dorfs and elves beliefe. They even tolerate this kind of worship in the brotectorate. Also it doesn't matter if you are black, white, sulese or cygnarian they only burn you if you wont accept Menoth as big boss. Before Menoth all men sizzle alike.
One of the reasons my menithes are ethically mixe in their units (if they show some skin at all)

Retribution of Scyrah
Lord Arcanist Ossyan 75/75

Discordia - 0
Hypnos - 8

Arcanist - 2
Arcanist - 2

Heavy Rifle Team - 4
Heavy Rifle Team - 4
House Vyre Electromancers - 8
House Vyre Electromancers - 8
Stormfall Archers - 9
Stormfall Archers - 9
Dawnguard Invictors (Max) - 16
Officer and Standard - 4
Soulless Escort - 1

>>47891317
so instead of discriminating on silly yet tangible differences, all they care about is make-believe?

>sure sounds reasonable and fair to me.

>>47891395
When Gods are a real, tangible part of the universe, and your God was the one who pulled mankind up out of the muck and taught him how not to be killed by the howling horrors of the night, a bit of religious persecution is kind of tolerable. Since you're objectively right.

What are the most aggressive/highest damage factions?

I am looking to get into the game and want to look at those options in particular.

>>47891462
>what is Islam for 300 please Alex

>>47891317
On the other hand, they don't like Dhunians and tend to persecute the shit out of them.

>>47891462
Keep in mind, Menoth also completely ignored mankind for much of their prehistory. Menoth only intervened when he realized that humans could be an instrument of his will on Caen. He didn't seem to care when the Immorese were suffering under the Orgoth either.

Morrowans and Thamarites don't deny Menoth. They just believe there is a better way than this.

>>47891333

A much better Ossyan list is

Hypnos 18
Moros 11

MHSF 16
--Commander 4
MHSF16
--Commander 4
Heavy Rifle Team-4
Heavy Rifle Team - 4
Stormfall Archers - 9
Stormfall Archers - 9
Houseguard Thane-4
Arcanist-2
Arcanist-2

This is the optimal Ossyan list, and your drop into everything. If the opponent is playing WM, Its basically an auto win, and defeats the vast majority of hordes.

Now that I think about it, do Morrow and Thamar accept the worship of non-humans? Are there any Morrowan elves? Thamarite dwarves? Etc etc?

I know Menoth is myopic in that he doesn't care for anything not based on him, but Morrow and Thamar don't seem like the type to exclude based on species.

>>47891491
not cygnar and not menoth

>>47887903

That's part of why discussing Skorne is pointless most of the time. The community has been delusional for a long time and it's become even worse with MK3. In order to combat the

'Wow...this sucks, PiP really dropped the ball" most of the player base has adopted this "Everything is great, you just can't handle the faction!" bullshit mentality.

It doesn't even matter if you provide why you think it's bad, now they just scream "SALT!" and ignore everything while sitting in their newly formed echo chamber hug box.

It's a small part but a part none of less of why I am finally dumping the faction after 2 years of consistent play

>>47891491
>What are the most aggressive/highest damage factions?

Traditionally, Cryx and Legion. Both took fairly heavy nerfs in the transition to MK3, so we'll see how things work out for them. The knife might have cut a bit too deeply in some places.

>>47891544
I always assumed that they accept worship from anyone. Morrow's focus on co-operation and community means he won't a worshiper away, and Thamar's mandate of promoting the self above all doesn't seem like a philosophy limited to humans.

>>47891532
This seems nice. I was just eager to try out my Electromancers. What would you pair with Ossyan gunline? I was thinking something along these lines:

Retribution of Scyrah
Vyros, Incissar of the Dawnguard 75/75
Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - 4

Imperatus - 0
Griffon - 3
Griffon - 8
Griffon - 8

Arcanist - 2
Arcanist - 2
Arcanist - 2
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir - 4

Dawnguard Sentinels (Max) - 18
Officer and Standard - 4
Dawnguard Invictors (Max) - 16
Officer and Standard - 4

>>47891669
This list is cool as fuck. I want to pair it with my rahn mage fiesta.

>>47891669

I'd take an ARM brick or something like Pvyros. As for your list, I'd honestly drop the Inictors and just do double Sents, which are better. Iron zeal up there and give no fucks. Sentinels are honestly the best WM infantry in the game at the moment, and as a drop against a Hordes beast brick are great, but don't expect to see much hordes in MK 3. So far all of the people who I have spoken to that are part of the WTC have dropped hordes and are going all in on WM. Cygnar, Ret, Khador, and Mercs/Menoth are most people's priority, normally double Cygnar because it is so strong, with Ossyan to counter it, because he shits on every list they can bring, save maybe the Striker3 2xstormlance list, which is fucking stupid.

>>47891745
Man I want to run a Rahn list, but Rahn likes models that don't fit well into nearly any other army comp. I'd end up spending over a hundred dollars on models that would be used almost exclusively in only his lists.

>>47891869
But they are so pretty. And they have a super unique playstyle as well. I'm considering putting together Rahn with sylys, phoenix, two chimeras, battle engine, two units of battlemages, each with a pair of magister and artificer and arcanists to fill the last few points. If I remember correctly that should fit into 75pts.

>>47891668
I don't really care about them being top tier, as long as they aren't unplayable. I was mainly looking at Cryx, Khador and Trolls. So, you think Cryx would be the best fit out of those?

>>47891857
Not that guy but:
Invictors provide an almost disgustingly deep level of versatility though. I almost always take them.

They have a 22" threat with ten pow12 guns on the assault + mini feat. Nothing like surprising your enemy by hitting them from half the board away. And when not assaulting you can re-roll missed CRAs. Five RAT 8 POW14 shots at 10" (with 5" movement to position) that can reroll misses is pretty fantastic. They can chew up light infantry, hunt high def solos, and do solid damage to heavier armor as well.

And they're no slouches in melee either. With a MAT 7 and POW 11 weapons they can slug it out with average and slightly above average melee units as well. And armor 17 puts them above the curve in turns of survivability even though it doesn't make them too hardy. But Vyros1 can give them another +2 ARM if you really wanted to make them last in combat.

All this for 16 points is a pretty fantastic deal.

>>47891959
I keep thinking he and the battle mages would be great with a Sphinx(already have), but I'm not sure just how important 2" on spells would be.

>>47892020
3" on spell, sorry.
But I guess going from 10" to 13" on the forcebolt would be pretty good.

File: wut.jpg (16KB, 406x347px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 406x347px

Is MK3 a good edition to start with? I wanted to get into Warmahordes a few months ago, but I was told to wait for MK3.
P.S. What faction lets me smash shit with big robots?

>>47892071
>Is MK3 a good edition to start with? I wanted to get into Warmahordes a few months ago, but I was told to wait for MK3.
You don't really have a choice bub. Join us in mkiii if you want to play
>P.S. What faction lets me smash shit with big robots?
Not Khador, not Ret, not Mercs

>>47892071
MK3 is basically already out with a soft release with the War Room 2 app (plus leaked cards for months). Based on the other editions, MK3 should be around for at least 6 years, maybe longer, so it is indeed a good place to start. Most factions have been redesigned to encourage the usage of more warjacks/beasts, but traditionally, Khador has been the huge stompy robot faction.

>>47892071
MK3 is a fine place to start. You won't have any holdover 'oopsies' from Mk2 like how much command ranges have changed and such.

Just about any of the warmachine factions can field lots of jacks now. Out of everyone I'd say probably Menoth does ROBOT SMASH the best at the moment, though Khador does it pretty good now as well.

But ultimately you should go with what a faction that you like the look and theme of.

>>47892071
>What faction lets me smash shit with big robots?
Khador has the biggest robots but they are kinda slow.
Cryx has cheap zombie robots, but they are kinda frail.
Cygnar has vanilla robots but they are kinda vanilla.
Menoth has zealot robots on fire, there might be some downside to this.
And there's always Mercenaries with good performance/cost ratio and Thomas the Steam Engine's big pissed cousin.

>>47892133
>>47892136
>>47892147
Righto, so just download the rules and grab a Battlegroup of my choice?

>Thomas the Steam Engine's big pissed cousin
Explain further.

>>47892183
>Righto, so just download the rules and grab a Battlegroup of my choice?

Yup, good way to start. There's a lot of minutia in the book that you will need to know eventually, but the battleboxes come with a 'quick start' rulebook that will teach you all the important rules you need to know for your first games. I wouldn't consider reading the core rulebook necessary until you play a few games with the battlebox and start adding models.

>>47892183
Yes, whichever faction's aesthetic appeals to you the most, go with that one (especially if you're only playing casually).

>>47892071


Any warmachine faction besides Cryx and Khador can run super Jack heavy easily with some casters. Even Khador can do it, just a little differently

Also that guy saying Mercs and Ret can't play Jack heavy in Mk3 is joshing you

>>47891979
No faction is unplayable, but Cryx got straight up gutted and it feels like pp put them on the safe side for now.

On top of the global rule and mechanic changes which were already bad for Cryx, 90% of everything Cryx got nerfed with most of the nerfs being huge compared to the changes in other factions. The fact that they stacked the nerfs all together by nerfing both mechanics and casters and units and solos that all used to go hand in hand makes for a huge loss in options and stats.

With little to no buffs to balance the scales I really don't see the appeal of playing Cryx right now. It feels like Cryx is the new mk2 Cygnar; One or 2 pretty good options and some auto include models, but mostly bad stuff that is better replaced with Mercs...

>>47892002

See, the thing is, with pre-measuring availible, it isn't much of a surprise. Its a long distance for them to go in on, but with more terrain its going to be more predictable/less effective. With Sents, you know they're coming, its stopping them from doing that that is the issue. They run at you and you have to stop them, because they slay heavies. I can just run something into a unit of Invictors and it will be fine.

Invictors are a solid ranged unit, and pow 12s do hurt, but there is too much armor on the table now. The MHSF does far more damage, because weaponmaster against the jack swarms, and with ossyan, is just as accurate. Sents have pathfinder on charges and vengeance.

In melee, the problem is their threat range, and loss of Flank. They dont want to be mixing it up with the infantry that is seeing table time right now. Its either stealthed, has stupid ARM, or wants you to hit it, like the Sents. 0.5 melee range is a big issue now. I'm not saying they are bad, its just that sentinels are so much better for what people are doing right now.

>>47892071
Mk is what people are going to be playing, so go with that. Its basically the same as MK 2, with more streamlined rules.

Every WM faction now. Mercs run Jack spam like nobody's buisness, Cygnar is gunline central, and Khador just smashes face. Cyriss is better than they were, and only Ret really uses too much infantry anymore.

Behold the "fuck magick" list
Garryth
Moros
Aspis
Chimera
Gorgon
Sylys
MHI, Eiryss and 3 escorts
MHSF, Commander and 3 escorts
Narn
Nayl
2 assasins
2 voidtracers

Is there any way I can justify this gimmick?

>>47892255
That sounds like they might be in the realm of unplayable, heh. I might look more into khador or trolls then. I just want to be agressive, as I said, and not sure how well those two do that

File: The hat of shame.jpg (11KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 200x200px

So after browsing the PP website for a little bit, Mercs seems like the faction for me. However, they don't have a starter-set/Battlegroup. What models would I want to start with, particularly if I wanted to spam Jacks like no tomorrow? I know I need a Warcaster, but I have no clue what else is good for beginners.

>>47884807
Love the way its looking.

>>47892356

Don't do trolls. They're taxed far too heavily for their support pieces, and their beasts got basically gutted. WM is straight up better than hordes now. Khador is pretty agressive and beefy, as are the Mercs now. Mercs are straight up vicious with the power-up rule, and their jacks got buffed across the board. You don't even really need their collossals any more.

>>47892362
There are some good merc options for jack heavy. The classic is Magnus, though I don't know what jacks he can use for a 0 point list.

>>47892071
Now (or in 2 weeks, when the battle boxes officially release to be precise) is the perfect time. Every Warmachine faction can now play a lot of Warjacks (depending on Warcaster), so pick whatever you personally find coolest.

>>47892362

It depends, because Rhulic 'jacks are only compatable with Rhulic casters. It also depends on what caster you like the look of, because they like different things. Probably the Nomad Kit and a mangler though, if you're going for humans, a Grundback gunner and a Blaster blister, and 2 drillers or a Rockram for Rhul.

>>47892133
>P.S. What faction lets me smash shit with big robots?
>Not Khador, not Ret, not Mercs
How can one person be so wrong? I mean I'll grant you Ret, but Mercs and Khador spam jacks with the best of them.

>>47892217
>>47892183
>Yup, good way to start. There's a lot of minutia in the book that you will need to know eventually, but the battleboxes come with a 'quick start' rulebook that will teach you all the important rules you need to know for your first games.
The battle box also comes with a full rulebook. All it lacks is model profiles and I never used those in MK2.

>>47892428
The lack of colossal is a plus. I mainly didn't want to have to pick those up until I get more into it, and I heard the colossal were basically necessary for mercenaries.

How are retribution and convergence with aggression? I heard they weren't very agressive, so I basically ignored them.

>>47892428
I disagree. While the Warmachine factions (except Cryx) look really good right now, the Hordes factions still have a lot going for them and Warbeasts and Fury still have quite a few advantages over Focus.

>>47884148
even then, their products are kinda crap for modelling and painting. Their sculpts are usually behind, say, GWs and the materials are some of the worst in the scene.

>>47892505
It depends on the model. The resin ones are bad but workable. The metal and metal/resin ones are really good and the plastic ones are good enough.

>>47892505
>>47892528
I dunno man, I've had plenty of bad experiences by now. It sometimes even makes me want to give Age of Cygmar a try!

>>47891857
>I'd take an ARM brick or something like Pvyros
So, something like this?

Retribution of Scyrah
Dawnlord Vyros 75/75
Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - 4

Imperatus - 0
Chimera - 2
Discordia - 18
Banshee - 18

Arcanist - 2
Arcanist - 2
Arcanist - 2
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir - 4

Dawnguard Sentinels (Max) - 18
Officer and Standard - 4
Soulless Escort - 1

Sentinels with Inviolable Resolve, Iron Zeal, Wall of Steel, and Discordia's Imprint makes for a pretty big brick of ARM to escort your jacks up the field.

>>47892239
Cryx has some fairly good jack casters now. Mortenabra, Venethrax and Denny3 come to mind.

>>47892255
Thats like every faction except Cygnar and Ret. MKIII has a very bland feel to it over all wich I find strange. Plus the edition roll out left a bad taste in my mouth.

>>47892464
Not even Ret.

In fact, Ret can support their warjacks extremely well now. They're not as good at spamming as Mercs, simply due to higher prices, but they can definitely run a good mixture of 'jacks and infantry.

Helynna and Vyros(1 or 2) lists can be expected to have four, sometimes more, 'jacks running. I expect that Rahn will want two heavies and a Chimera or two.

>>47892464
not really. Mercs still don't have a mass battlegroup buff caster outside of Bart. Merc jacks aren't efficient enough that you can dump focus into one and let it wreck the world for you either. You either need to dump 2 jack's worth of focus to get work done or you are gonna need infantry.

Still not convinced on Khador either. Khador still retained the position of best infantry faction and jack support is still lacking in the faction. I also believe that once the honeymoon period is over with mkiii, everyone will learn to cope with things like Juggernaut spams. Since jacks are more prevalent, people will learn quickly how to deal with them.

Jack spam might be a thing for those factions, but it will be a one off skew, not a faction defining thing to base your entire faction purchase into.

>>47879181
Neraph is pretty trash for Legion, I'd take an earthborn for his animus any day, since it for taken from my faction.

File: Malekus1_75.png (207KB, 421x661px) Image search: [Google]

207KB, 421x661px

Any prot players try Cleansers yet? Still not sure if I want to do pic related as my list or if I want to swap cleansers out for another heavy

File: 1453824798678.jpg (71KB, 443x701px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 443x701px

>>47892493
problem is that they basically lost the advantages had.

Boosting on demand is no longer a consistent advantage since the fury management and thresholds all took a major hit. Secondly, the beast stats have become terrible compared to warjacks now. Natively hard hitting heavies are very few in hordes now and with gutting of many animi, the avenue of good offense is narrower.

Face it, hordes got gutted hard.

>>47892555
You want lots of Reach 'jacks to take advantage of his feat. I'd put some Griffons in there, because MAT 8 POW 13 weapon master kills heavies.

>>47892661

Ossrum has the highest threat ranges in the game with Engergizer+feat, and the cheapest heavies at PC 10. Right now most merc armies are 80% battlegroup, because they pice trade. And not efficient? Dude, bunnies have powerful attack. They are focus independant right now, literally the best light jacks in the game. They shred infantry and put dents in heavies. Or you can run Durgen. Field Marshal continuous fire is busted.

Magnus2 with fucking unyielding on all his jacks, and Magnus 1 with resourceful, are piece trade masters, as they can full fuel 3 jacks a turn, and are stupid to kill. Manglers charge for free, and are effective against everything from armor cracking to infantry clear.

They are as efficient as any other warjack, more so in some cases, and the battlegroup wide buffs are just as rare outside of Mercs

>>47892262
With more stuff on the field in both models and terrain I'd say it's actually more likely that an opponent would be surprised by the range invictors can manage. Combined with the larger variety of ranged buffs Ret has now it can make the invictors really ugly while sentinels perform almost exactly the same as before..

80% or so of the people in my area play hordes so I can never make full use of the 'jack hunting on the MHSF. And I'd say that CRA is better for your army at cracking hard targets than MHSF 'jack hunter. At least with the invictor CRAs you can actually hurt more tough models than just jacks.

Additionally Sentinels have the same survivability as Invictors. Only thing Sentinels have over them is Vengeance. In my experience Vengeance is almost never fully effective due to the fact that when struck with anything greater than a stiff breeze, there won't be enough of the unit left to make good use of it.

Invictors being able to pick off models outside their charge range (14" shot with mini feat) before charging is a great asset.

My preference is also probably partially due to the fact that Sentinels have ALWAYS underperformed for me. In the about dozen or so games I've played (All but 1 of them Mk2) I've never hit for more than 22 damage on a charge with them. (I keep a record for my especially retarded soldiers)

But in the end I almost always run a unit of both sentinels and invictors since they go hand in hand so well.

>>47884691
I have one like this, though I think I put Raptors +1 martyr in place of the Ravagore. Haven't put it on the table yet but I think this is the way to go with her if you don't want a SPD9 Archangel (which is my other build). Hoping to play the non AA version this week or next.

>>47892362
Magnus and 9 nomads.

>Shrike
>Everyone says it's shit
>Flight
>Free trample of 10"
>Immune to free strikes from trample
>MAT 7
>11+3d6 BOOSTABLE DAMAGE
>Isn't stopped by and can hit medium and large models with it
>Combined with so many debuffs Cryx has
>Only 6 points

Seems breddy good to me. Can easily scythe a hole in a troop line or harass larger models and tie them up for a turn.

>>47892763
>Sents
>dying easily
>WHILE THEY HAVE FUCKING IRON ZEAL

Did you even read the MK3 cards? you need to shoot them with fucking heavy jacks to get the pieces of shit off the table. They also have pathfinder with the UA. They are so much more survivable now its dumb.

MHSF are used because they ignore fucking everything, and waltz through terrain. Invictors will get bogged down or have LOS issues. Again, the loss of Flank hurts their lategame terribly, and at a comparable price to MHSF, but worse, they aren't as useful.

>>47892762
>Ossrum has the highest threat ranges in the game with Engergizer+feat, and the cheapest heavies at PC 10. Right now most merc armies are 80% battlegroup, because they pice trade.
It's currently 80% battlegroup, not because they piece trade well, but it's the only way to stay durable in the current anti infantry game state.
>And not efficient? Dude, bunnies have powerful attack. They are focus independant right now, literally the best light jacks in the game. They shred infantry and put dents in heavies. Or you can run Durgen. Field Marshal continuous fire is busted.
They are efficient at their one job. Disrupt their one job and they flounder. The current "meta" if you can even call it that this early, still hasn't had everyone figure out the two important factor for list selection or building, a gunline or be anti gunline.
>Magnus2 with fucking unyielding on all his jacks, and Magnus 1 with resourceful, are piece trade masters, as they can full fuel 3 jacks a turn, and are stupid to kill. Manglers charge for free, and are effective against everything from armor cracking to infantry clear.
Unyielding alone isn't enough to make a jack army good. Unless you can defensive skew heavily it's not a factor. Magnus 1 will not see play at all. He had resourceful in mkii and never saw play because his kit wasn't good enough. He's still not good enough to take over other casters.
>They are as efficient as any other warjack, more so in some cases, and the battlegroup wide buffs are just as rare outside of Mercs
Not at all. Khador, the poorest jack faction still has more mass battlegroup buffing spell than Mercs do and I'm not even including things like energizer when I say that. Merc jacks are fragile, but it's less fragile than infantry. It's the only reason why so many merc players are flocking to jack spams.After the dust settles merc players will need to go back to playing infantry because people will learn to fight gunlines and juggernaut/hunter spams.

>>47892960
What are you taking it for though? Basically everything you would want, you can get it elsewhere, but more efficiently. If you want to trample, heavies cover comparable amount of models and are you really all that excited about trampling troll infantry?

>>47892960
It was meh in MK2. It's silly good in MK3.

>>47891649
you and me both, i've been playing other factions for about a week now and the game actually feels fun again. skorne's bad right down to its community that wont see why its bad and because the most vocal voices are "its all fine" PPs probably sucking their own dick about how great a job they did

>>47892981
>go back to infantry.

Oh, you're one of those people. opinion discarded, because you're a fucking idiot. so very few infantry are worth it, trust me, we've tried the vast majority models in the most lists we can think of. Infantry isn't very good, and will never be used in any real amount outside specific skew lists with sepcific casters, like Ossyan.

And merc jacks are fragile? 11/19 are not bad defensive stats. Faster than Khadoran Jacks, more durable than cygnar's, cheaper than both.

So please, tell me how they aren't "durable enough"? Tell me how basically every Merc caster having at least one battle group buff is not having a lot?

>>47892960
Where do you get the 11+ 3d6 from? looks like 11 + 2d6 to me.
Apart from tearing through infantry, it's shit

>>47892960
>>47893037
Its a boostable spray that needs a landing zone, in a faction that does not want for infantry removal, in an edition with no infantry.

>Mk2 was spam infantry edition
>Mk3 is spam jacks edition
when will we find the true balance we deserve?

>>47893128
I feel you man!. Although I have no firsthand experience with Skorne I'm having trouble enjoying my silly Cryx models (and I'm not talking omgwtf Gaspy2 Banespam) because they just feel so plain compared to the shit going around in other mk3 factions.

>>47893526
People will realize that dude spam is still good in MK3 soon enough.

File: 1453602758108.jpg (172KB, 418x834px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 418x834px

>>47893190
why are you asking anything if you aren't gonna listen?

>>47893742
you will need dudes to remove khador dudes.

>>47893794
please never post this image again

>>47893425
I misread 'smasher' which is free trample and extra ATTACK. I had thought it said damage. But still sounds like a fun model.

>>47893526
Jacks have issues keeping their scenario presence up, and jackspam has it worse. Lot of scenarios will let you just jam them out.

>People memeing cryx crab-jacks suck and 'this kills the crab-jack'
>Stat lines are the same as Mk2

>Desecrator
>Gained a point of range on gun
>Scather slightly nerfeed to effect all models
>Melee weapon gained Grievous Wounds
>Went from 9pts to 14pts

>Harrower
>Traded 2 POW for 1 RNG on its gun
>Ghost shot now Wraith shot and required a focus to activate
>Gained Quick Work
>Thresher nerfed to attacks now simultaneous
>Went from 10pts to 16pts

>Leviathan
>Spiker now ROF 1d3
>Went from 9pts to 16 pts

Doesn't seem that bad to me. Harrower got the worst nerfs due to how Wraith Shot and Thresher work now, but the Quick Work add on I would say makes up for it. Still sounds plenty viable to me.

>>47894045
They cost as much as a pair of stalkers, and more than a seether or inflictor. The crabjacks are good, but there's your problem.

>>47893965
I've seen a lot of people say this.

How, though, do you propose to jam jackspam out of scenario presence? Stopping them from controlling is one thing, but against a serious jackspam list, how does one stop them from *contesting*?

>>47894165
Elf Mittens, Angelii, Beat Back

>>47894165
crit dev, throw, I haven't checked but I believe stationary things can't contest either, if using a colossal, the game is already decided at that point and any argument is moot since someone will be clearly winning.

Why was dudespam so good in Mk2? How was dudespam better than nounspam? Was it all of the weapon master infantry that wrecked you on the charge and you couldn't risk taking freestrikes from?

Serious questions, as I'm running Amon jackspam, and I don't think these are really answers to Amon (specifically) jackspam.

>>47894210

With those I'm assuming you're expecting to push a couple of jacks out of a zone that are toeing it. How do these work against 3ish heavies in the middle (or relatively close) of two zones?

How does this handle Fortify on one of the contesting jacks?

>>47894337

How do you get enough throws to *matter* unless you're spamming jacks *more* than the guy you're trying to deny scenario presence to?

>>47894400
In a word, yes.

In more detail, infantry requires zero focus investment or fury mitigation to charge, and even at lower PS than jacks, the sheer quantity of added damage dice on charges caused them to generate enough damage that jacks couldn't keep up since to work they drained resources off the caster.

>>47894502
I can't wait to see Amon jackspam played more, really feels like PP didn't think that shit through.

>>47891515
>He didn't seem to care when the Immorese were suffering under the Orgoth either.

Well, sorta. His faith got genocided during the orgoth takeover because it kept trying to resist.

The Paladins of the Order of the Wall are the only group that actually has a truly old history in the church. The priesthood and the scrutators are new versions.

>>47891515
It's back and forth on Dhunians. Sometimes they figure them as hiding Wurm worshippers, sometimes they note that Menoth has nothing to do with them and they're fine.

>>47891857
Another ARM brick list I came up with to pair with Ossyan gunline:

Magister Helynna 75/75
Imperatus - 0
Discordia - 10
Chimera - 8

Arcanist - 2
Arcanist - 2
Arcanist - 2
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir - 4
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - 3

Dawnguard Sentinels (Max) - 18
Officer and Standard - 4
Dawnguard Sentinels (Max) - 18
Officer and Standard - 4

>>47894502
Upkeep removal is a thing, man.

And it's a combo of killing the jacks that matter combined with just bogging down the ones that don't. It's actually relatively simple on the table, jacks just get too clogged up.

>>47893526
Yes i wouldn't call mk3 jackspam yet.

It looks like it could be the initial meta, but as noted WJs can be jammed out of zones and still don't have enough volume of attacks.

desu desu, i think PP missed a great opportunity with this mk2 remix.
It could have been a lot better, and i don't mean m-muh faction, I mean the basic game mechanics.

Like power attacks and cavalry which are still a clusterfuck.
Even terrain hasn't been done correctly.

>>47892717
>Face it, hordes got gutted hard.
Good.
Seriously good fucking job.
I was sick of fury being so obviously blatantly better than focus.

in fact i think some hordes stuff hasn't been nerfed enough.
Morv2 is still too good.
ravagor is still shooting 4" scather templates up to 14" away whilst ignoring all defensive terrain bonuses.

Anyone got a download of the faction deck PDFs? I only have Skorne but want to skim through the others. Would be grateful for Circle and Menoth.

>>47877953
fuck off out of here.

>>47878491
I heard that the guy that runs the PP factory in europ was really pissed off with PPs management of Mk3.

>>47895063
chephalyx and convergence are meme armies please don't think otherwise it'll make you look bad