Antares

>>47830456
Too many sci-f skirmish games already.

My big issue with it is that none of the factions presented really caught my interest, at least so far.

>>47830507
>infinity and?

>>47830456
>great models
Well when you tell lies people take offense.

Most of the models are SHIT. Also the game takes a long time to play in a age where people want games to take max 1 hour.

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>>47830604
>SHIT

>>47830636

That model gives me mixed feelings. The sculpt and design are obviously competent, there's a lot of detail, but it just seems completely lacking in any character or personality. There's nothing interesting, unique or dynamic about it. It's generic military officer #347.

>>47830636
>Generic as fuck static posed dignitary type commander.
>Literally a dime a dozen figure from hasslefree or reaper.
Yes, and?

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>>47830720

>>47830720
>le every model needs to be Epic Action Pose meme

>>47830784
>>47830636

It'd be easier to tell if these pictures weren't fucking miniscule.

>>47830784
>Still static as fuck.
You can just tell Priestly was never into the miniature side of the games he made and lacks knowledge about the design process behind cool models.
And that's being nice about it.

>>47830810
Is that all you got from these comments? Can you even read?
>There's nothing interesting, unique or dynamic about it. It's generic military officer #347.
>Generic as fuck static posed dignitary type commander.
>Literally a dime a dozen figure from hasslefree or reaper.

You're probably retarded.
That's tough man.

>>47830456
A failed initial launch killed a ton of enthusiasm. The models don't do anything for me, and I'm sure several others agree.

>>47830512
>>47830700
Really not a lot more to say. The Ghar outcasts have a little something going for them in a cutesy way, and if the other factions had any of that oddball charm it might be more appealing overall. I cant think of anything they could have done with the design of the human faction to make them bland and forgettable that they did not in fact do.

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>>47830604
>Also the game takes a long time to play in a age where people want games to take max 1 hour.
I still have no idea where those people came from. If I'm going to go through the effort of getting out my models and setting up the table, I sure as fuck better be playing for at least 2 hours. At an absolute minimum prep time should never, under any circumstances, exceed a quarter of playing time.

Goddamn at some point I am going to condense everything I hate about the latest trends in game design into some sort of condensed fury book.

Does anyone have a copy of the rules for this game?

>>47831269
People stopped wanting to have 16+ hour tournaments?

More people have to commute so that 1 hour is really 2 and 1/2 due to travel times?

Smaller games take less time and are preferred because people want less clutter? Fewer models to paint? And a smaller investment?

Because the current age of nerds doesn't own three floor houses with one dedicated purely to miniature wargaming?

Get with the times gramps.

>>47830456
>great models
no

the rules are interesting, but the miniatures are mediocre at best

>>47831841
>the current age of nerds doesn't own three floor houses with one dedicated purely to miniature wargaming
The "previous age" of nerds didn't own that shit back in the eighties or nineties either. Or the early '00s.

>>47830560
Deadzone

>>47830456
Trying to compete directly with 40k is suicide.

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Infinity is a more distinct and cooler alternative to 40k, with better models.

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>>47832185
I really conceptually like Infinity, except I feel that half the fun of miniature games is pushing a buttload of toy men around a table
>tfw they ruined the Tik

>>47831914
Pretty much this. Also the dice based activation system is shit. Id rather have seen a retread of Void 1.1 if I wanted a d10 based 40k knockoff.
>>47830456
Honestly visually I think the whole thing feels too uninspired to get into.

The models range from god awful to just ok. Several of the factions feel completely unimportant fluff-wise (similar to Tau). Otherwise it is pretty great. That's just not enough in this market.

>>47830456
Models are fine, but the style is boring.
It looks like the most generic sci-fi possible.

>>47830456
No customisation.

>>47830560
To name a few
Deadzone
Maelstroms Edge
Macrocosm
The Icarus Project

>>47834944
>literally who

Because just like Infinity the models/aesthetics do not draw me in. They don't interest me but they also don't look generic in a way I enjoy.

For all its huge flaws as a game 40k grabbed me visually the instant I saw the models/art.

>>47834944
Apart from Deadzone these games must be even more obscure than GoA. I had not heard a single person mention them here, in the LGS or on any forums.

>>47830456
I'm just pissy that Warlord is pushing it so hard instead of releasing all the Wargames Factory kits they bought the distribution rights to.

I need my 28mm plastic ashigaru and skellingtons.

>>47830964
Word, the ghar kinda interested me and I think the outcasts are an improvement in being less regimented and more jury rigged.

I think warlords mistake was going with the most visually generic races early on, none of the factions do anything new or even anything old creatively, it all feels very generic/star trek-ish.

Some of the new xilos campaign stuff seems cool but overall i'd give the bulk a pass.

>>47835557
Its a good thing their product is so diverse, this game seems to be flopping which might kill another company given how much they have put into it.

>>47835589

Oh yeah, anyone else and this would have been a major disaster. But Warlord's got Bolt Action in their pocket among their many ranges.

I am worried though about the increasing number of product lines that Warlord has bought from other companies (with the promise to distribute) and done nothing with.

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>>47834944

Maelstrom's Edge is the game DakkaDakka are making isn't it?

Some of the models look swell. Not really a fan of the Antares stuff, it's like they're ten years behind on tech in the casting room.

>>47835557
This, they've abandoned their own games apart from bolt action and currently are pushing GoA and project z, i've been waiting for a year and a half for those knights of malta sculpts warlord bought and never released.

I can't understand some of their design decisions though, like making one boxed set separate head when the rest of the army is fixed head or putting slotta bases on the dads army minis when the entirety of the rest of the range is using fixed bases.

It may be my own bias but I don't really see the point in the separate heads, pretty much every bolt action army i;ve seen if it uses metal minis never has more than one of a metal squad, they got it right with the luftwaffe squad nobody is going to buy multiples of that squad, should have done the same with the kriegs marine squad.

>>47831909
I think the problem most of the people in this thread are picking up on is the lack of souls in their cad-designed minis.

Since i'm dumping o n warlord, why the fuck would you have all of your american winter officers and observers armed with the same thing!? m1 carbines just aren't as cool as garands and thompsons

>>47835616
Speaking of Bolt Action, there is still Konflict 47 to look forward to. Always fun to have a bit of Weird War 2 stuff, especially since most of the army can use normal BA models.

I do need those skeletons to give my Fantasy SAGA Greeks an enemy though though, they should get a move on.

>>47830456
the models are some sort of generic mass effect knock off, the worst possible aesthetic for 28mm

Everything else is fine, but I really need rules to make my own army so I can use my dreamforge guys or something because I cannot stand the antares models.

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Generic is not necessarily bad, people can like generic things. I would like a sci-fi skirmish game where (one of) the human faction looks sort of like this for example.

The GoA models don't do anything for me at all though.

>>47832185
To be fair, Achilles and a Mutilator are going for two seperate ideas. One is a ancient demi-god warrior reborn vua SCIENCE and the other is a ungodly tech abomination focused on RIP and TEAR. A good comparisonwould be Achilles and Sigvald.

On Antare's behalf, there are some good models. The new Xilo, the Ghar outcasts and their battlesuits, the C3 drop team, and sone select algoryn. They just need to get some more substance

>>47830456
>>great value starter set
That's fine, but the individual blisters are almost Games Workshoppian in price. That's a turnoff.
I got the Ghar starter, I'll be using them in Deadzone.

It's actually a good game, more than just a scfi bolt action. Shame they went with a kinda early 40k image for the front cover because this isn't just a 40k rip off.
It plays well and the Ghar are really good models, so are the boromites (prolly because they are proper sculpts and not CAD).

I think lots of people have requested the rules in PDF/eBook but I don't think there's one out in the wild to download yet

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>>47830456
>great rule set made by a legend
I have seen literally no evidence of the former and the latter basically doesn't matter. the system could have been shat out by Alessio Cavatore's generic ruleset production company for all it matters.

>great models
Looks really static and uninspired. I've seen more interesting stuff going on with 15mm sci-fi infantry in recent years.

>other stuff
Basically, there's nothing immediately interesting about the game in a fairly crowded marketplace for such things. Because the 28mm Not-40k game space is now also dominated by Bolt Action, which has grabbed tons of former 40k players. Warlord is essentially competing against itself with this, but WW2 has a lot stronger imagery and fluff going for it.

And sci-fi skirmishing on that size of battle is largely eaten up by the 15mm market because whilst the miniatures for the most part are not exactly visually impressive even if they're really good for the scale, the game systems themselves have some sort of hook to them and there's all the bonuses of being cheaper and having more tablespace to work with, particularly for vehicles and other big things. Or cramming a game into an even smaller space than needed for a 28mm game.

>>47830456
I want to use my AT-43 armies in this game. That's all I really want.

>>47830859
You know Rick just writes the rules, right?

I will agree though; there is a fair bit of static poses so far. I don't need every model leaping over a wall or doing a cartwheel, but some more running guys would be nice.

Still think it's a solid game with some neat fluff and I do like a lot of the designs.

My local GS actually runs and support this stuff. Worth getting in? Or shall I just keep paiting my orks and nurgle daemons?

>>47833160
>Dice activation is shit
I love it. Way better than the fucking IGOUGO shit some games keep clinging to.

>>47835668
They just put out a new Black Powder book not that long ago, have been showing off new stuff for HC and the new prehistoric stuff.

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>>47830560
>implying there's anything worth playing besides Infinity

>>47834944
Also Warzone and Afterglow if you're into post-apo.
Dropzone Commander if you want to switch scales.

>>47830456
What about the other warlord games? Apart from Bolt action has anyone played the others? Judge dredd sounds good and the hail caeser stuff looks quite interesting too

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>>47835773
I feel like this thread is too much Infinity right now, but...
If you don't mind everyone else looking very manga and the occasional werewolf, Ariadna has you covered.

>>47836896
Seconding this. I like the Egyptian minis. They have a YUGE selection of ancient world minis.

>>47836923
Well look at that, Infinity models I actually like. You are right though, the general aesthetic is just not for me.

And it seems to have turned into a general sci-fi thread. People say its a crowded market but what are people even playing other than Infinity and 40k for 28mm stuff? Deadzone is picking up a bit of interest but GoA seems dead on arrival.

40k is like facebook. Some of the alternatives might be better, but persuading all my friends to switch is too much effort.

At this point if you don't already have a large audience or something that means the majority of nerds are likely to be at least interested (like having the Star Wars lisence), there isn't really much point in trying to market a new wargame in my opinion.

>>47836896
All I know about Hail Caesar is it has no points system (Like Age of Sigmar), and covers 3000 years: 1500BCE - 1500 CE. Also units don't take casualties, similar to Kings of War. Rather, they route when enough negative things happen to them.

>>47836896
in terms of minis they have a massive selection although I find the wg factory stuff isn't great and especially isn't worth the new prices.

They have a tendency to sacrifice detail to keep costs down on some of their plastic frames, and rely on metal extras for variety.

In terms of rules both p&s, HC and BP are very generic designed to be used with any collection, I recommend the add on books for your period of choice as they really help theme the games and make them feel more period appropriate.

Their ancients stuff is accurate and well sculpted but slight/smaller and closer to 25mm, this is only the former cutting edge stuff though.

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>>47830456
Look the last time I got excited and into a sci-fi wargame was AT-43. I can only get my heart broken so many times.

>>47837637
DELETE THIS

>>47837662
Never, you will share in my despair at the loss of space 50s with power armoured gorrilas and like it damn it.

>>47837637
And this time they don't even have space monkeys...

>>47837481
We have a budding BtGoA community, but it may be related to the fact that 40k is pretty much non-existent most of the times but most people have some kind of army they can proxy to BtGoA.

>>47837637
AT-43 had some baller art.

There is rule 34 for it for some bizarre reason

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>>47837964
The reasons is because it's a rule, not a suggestion.

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>>47837637
>>47837691
Speaking for defunct games, guess which one with great models went OOP quite recently...

Sleep well, sweet prince.

>>47837497
I think there is a market for a squad-based game with a similar feeling to 40k. Skirmish is a red ocean with way too many competitors swimming around and you really can't go any bigger or even as big as 40k in 28mm.

But I really think there is space for a game that hits around the 3rd to 4th edition in model count that invokes a similar feeling. Because 40k really is all about the feeling, the feeling of building Your Dudes, the feeling of commanding a few dozen 28mm dudes, the feeling of doing something in this expansive world that somehow still has a place for YOU and YOUR ORIGINAL DONUTSTEEL IDEAS.

Thing is, no game has been able to hit the mark here. Sure, you won't blow up over night either way, but all competitors in the past 16 years pretty much concentrated on the gaming side, with various dashes of pricing or modelling. And those really are important, but what really grabs wargamers and drags them in is the world and context of the game, and Deadzone, Antares Maelstrom, Warzone and all others pretty much completely failed here.

I used to really like infinity but honestly the game is just so dense and so involved. I play miniatures games to relax and I just don't find anything about the experience of playing Infinity relaxing.

>>47831269

I think you are ignoring that people don't play one game and pack up, they play several. You're still playing for 2 hours or more you're just playing multiple games.

>>47835664
>it's like they're ten years behind on tech in the casting room

Same problem with the Judge Dredd game, the minis look like they came out 20+ years ago not 4.

>>47838515
I'd say more like 10-12 years ago. 20 years was 1996, those guys look more like early-mid 2000s.

>>47838326
>I think there is a market for a squad-based game with a similar feeling to 40k.
Man, I'd love to have a decent version of Kill Team.
Maybe something like Infinity, but less random and simpler.

>>47836491
Straight alternating activations are infinitely superior.

>>47839457
Or card based, either randomly distributed or with the extra tactical layer of assigning them from a hand.

>>47830456
>Plastic
Only a couple of boxes are plastic, the rest is just metal figures that don't look that great. If they released some more plastics at the quality and price point of Bolt Action figures then I would be all for it.

>>47834944
>No one ever mentions Dark Age
I feel that the game is intensely under rated. It has some really good designs.

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>>47834944
You forgot Robotech RPG Tactics

>>47839985
You are a cruel but funny fella. KS and Palladium forgot RRPGT and it's ultimately a DOA game with thousand pieces miniature playing models

Remember Dust? Oh what could have been....

>>47830456
Well, it's mainly because it's shite.
Legend? My dick is a legend, so what?
I don't care gandhi, stalin and micheal jackson wrote a wargame, it doesn't make it special.
If it's crap then it's crap, no matter who wrote it.
Thinking you can just waltz in, say "hey look at me i famously wrote rogue trader!!" and expect ppl to fall at your feet?
You can fuck off.

The fluff is a bland as white rice without sauce of any kind.

The models are shit. They aren't top of the range, they aren't even goofy, not characterful, they got nothing. Nothing.

G-guys, is this a safe space to talk about Wr-wr-wrath of K-Kings?

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>>47844487

>>47830636
yes shit.
check any confrontation jap-goblin. That is character and class.

now check any old school full metal warmachine warjack: it's goofy, but it's full of character.

Now look at any recent space marine terminator; it oozes power and character.

Dammit even sigmarines have something (even if it's homoerotic)

Your pic is generic dude - the miniature. With maybe a slight whiff of imperial guard.

>>47830784
is that supposed to be an infinity remote?
oh wait there are badly scaled ppl in/on it.
So now it looks like a grossly deformed vehicle.

Look I expect shit like this from kryomek or grendel, but they aren't pretending that their game is the new hotness.

>>47837637
>space slavs
>space gorillas

goddammit I never even played this game and now I miss it. That looks kickass.

If it makes you feel better, I feel the same way about starship troopers. I know your pain brother

>>47837637
What happened to this game? Can someone post the summary of it?

>>47844716
Didn't make enough money to cover its costs.

Probably because it came out well before people really started leaving 40k in droves.

>>47844506
WoK is fun to play, has some interesting design(even tho the lore is boring so far)and great miniatures.
Its cheap, easy to learn and has good depths and strategies.
Some models are stronger than other but so far every unit has its use.


too bad CMON is shit and even tho they keep releasing new mini they refuse to promote the game in ANY way, and most people don't know it exists.

i own a starter set because i literally fell in love with those delicious THICKKK nasier women, but the game is dead in my area. and by dea, i mean i am the only one who has it.
Pretty sad.
>>47838472
>I used to really like infinity but honestly the game is just so dense and so involved. I play miniatures games to relax and I just don't find anything about the experience of playing Infinity relaxing.

Thank you, I tought i was the only one.
my toughts exactly. Infinity miniatures are pretty good tho, they manage to make their shitty " weabbo sci fi"look really good in most cases. Models are dinamic and detailed.

>>47830456
There are maybe 2-3 models I like in the entire line up. The models aren´t shit like KoW stuff but mostly boring.

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>>47844716
Rackham fucked up by trying to compete with GW in the worst possible terms: they changed their Confrontation line from metal to pre-painted rubber, then expanded AT-43 without making proper market research and eventually created smaller games that all failed. If they had stick to their metal line, they may had something to fall back, but they lost their public and the company bankrupted. To put a final nail in the coffin, they sold their intellectual property to Cyanide, who failed to establish a proper game franchise for Confrontation. No idea to what happened to the AT-43 IP, but the nearest we have today in style is anotgher dying game, Dust. Pic related.

>>47830456
>What's wrong with it? Why isn't it more popular?
until 10 people in my store start collecting and regularly playing, im not risking my time and money on something I may never get to use: the hobby.

40k works because you can find a game anywhere. Everyone does not want to be that guy who blows hundreds trying to generate interest, only to have it blow up in his face and his models collect dust.

>>47839457
Alternating activations like AT-43, Warzone and Malifaux; yes. The IGOUGO shit 40k still clings to is fuck awful.

>>47839826
Well what's the difference between random card activation and order dice? Same concept.

>>47845977
It's a shame AT-43 had to die. Fucking loved that game. It got me back into wargaming back in 2008ish. It was fun as hell, and I loved some of the designs(fuck yeah Cogs).

Number one on my "Dead games I want to see return" list now that Warzone has come back.

>>47847292
Random card activation is just that, random, no selecting which unit to apply the activation to (Dead Man's Hand/Grunts option 1 style).

I prefer a dealt hand and then assigning the cards to be revealed at the start of the turn though (Gruntz second option).

>>47846332
But that argument can be made for any game that isn't 40k.

>>47847422
Ah, I see what you're getting at.

I have found from playing Bolt Action that the order dice thing works pretty well. You really have to choose who to move at the right time, and making sure you give guys orders that will benefit them for a whole turn is pretty key.

But I do like the idea of a card activation thing. Was actually thinking about that for a ruleset I was working on.

>>47846332
I'm the guy who is totally willing to throw some money at a game to try and get other people interested. I think some of my friends got mad because they thought I had gamer ADD or something. I just burn out if I play the same game all the time, and then I start to resent the game a bit(even if it's a good game) because I want something to mix it up.

Sadly other people seem terrified to even get demos of other games.

>>47844580
Don't forget that the space slaves are very slightly speciated from true humanity; and the actual lineage of Earth in this setting is Space 4chan, trolling everyone by pretending to be the Necrons.

>>47838515
I agree with you, but for some they like that sort of style and there's even game systems out that are almost running off the "oldhammer" aesthetic such as the wasteman game. It may be a design choice to cash in on nostalgia, not that healthy for getting younger people into the game though.

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>>47838013
>tfw I'll never have a sweet looking crusader mordheim band because the game attached to these minis died

>>47845977
we are actually getting konflickt 47 in a few months

It has quite taken off at my lfgs, but again AoS has been dead on arival and Warzone trumps 40k here so it's not that surprising.

>>47835664
Maelstrom's Edge is pretty swell. Your pic is actually of their first kit, which might actually be their worst.

The Epirians from the starter set make excellent Doomguys if given Pig Iron heads and painted green.

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Is there a skirmish game with rules for late Cold War/modern soldiers fighting aliens or mutants or whatever?

I cannot even find a plastic kit of 28mm US infantry which surprises me.

>>47852074
Try Tomorrow's War. Same system as Force on Force but scifi. /tg/ has even made X-COM conversions for it.

No plastic moderns is surprising. I guess it's *only just* not popular enough.

>>47852094
I guess a market for one particular version of one particulars country's uniform in specific webbing is just too small, when market is slowly saturated with generic guys with guns left and right, both from ww2/Vietnam and scifi.

That said, Mars Attack from Mantic has some plastic US troops, but they don't seem to sell them separately. Kickstarter had expanded options for these and even the 50s soldier from the original card set.

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>>47852171
I hope this isn't a pic for ants.

>>47838013
I saw some hype on the interwebs but literally no one I talked to in real life even knew of this game. I have like, 5 different FLGSes and only one of them carried the books.

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>>47852186
>>47852171
They are available separately but its £18 for 10 monopose figures.

The closest I have found is the Warlord Games Special Operations Team.

By default its a generic black ops team with a mix of modern weaponry but the sprue also allows a contemporary US infantry squad with MICH/ACH type helmets or a paramilitary squad. With some head swaps you could also make well equipped Islamic terrorists.

There is just something special about M81 woodland, basic M16's and PASGT helmets though.

>>47850278
The Black Moon Chronicles wargame?

>>47830456
It's really about the models. People wanted something non-anime but on par with infinity, or at least 'better' than 40k and GoA is fine, but really nothing special modelwise. And then some models are just ugly and some concepts are just too unrealistic, I mean why do we still need attack bikes, cavalry and these weird walkers with no protection for the rider/pilot. The troops are pretty good for the most part though.
I just don't play it, because my group plays 40k and doesn't give a fuck about how shitty the rules are.

>>47852792
I think people forget how important aesthetics and fluff can be for a wargame.

To use a space game example BFG has both fluff and models I love, Halo Fleet Battles has the Halo fluff with decent models and Firestorm Armada has cool models. But Dropfleet Commander has neither models or fluff I care much about so it does not interest me at all.

>>47852074

Black OPs by Osprey is a straight up Cold War/Modern skirmish but you could adapt it to include aliens easily enough. You can find the PDF in the /hwg/

javascript:quote('47771646');

>>47852981
>I think people forget how important aesthetics and fluff can be for a wargame.
It's funny to me how people advertise Frostgrave as a wargame in which you can use whatever models you like.
Because that's basically broadcasting that Frostrgrave has shit models.
And it really does.

>>47853425

Generic isn't the same as shit and you really are under no obligation to use them or the lore that comes with the game.

It's an intentionally generic system with intentionally generic miniatures.

>>47853455
Which makes the standard question of "what makes your game different and more interesting from the other ones" kind of a killing one.

And it's not like Frostgrave miniatures are even well sculpted. Old Reaper stuff eats it for breakfast and they're also incredibly generic. And then there's collector stuff like Dark Sword.

>>47853425
>It's funny to me how people advertise Frostgrave as a wargame in which you can use whatever models you like.
Because that's basically broadcasting that Frostrgrave has shit models.

I think it makes perfect sense. I don't like the frostgrave models either, but to me one of the major selling points was "use whatever you think is cool and nobody can have a shitfit about it" which is such a nice change from playing with retards in 40k who try to have you disqualified if you have some space marine clone from another manufacturer on the table.

If you intentionally make a game so that it doesn't have races and factions, just generic archetypes for soldiers, it's totally legit to mention use any minis you want that fits as an advantage.

Our frostgrave games have miniatures on the table that I would never have seen in a million years if I just played at the flg.

>>47853506
Honestly I don't think the frostgrave minis are awful, they're not great either but I can sort of see how they'd appeal to people who likes something slightly easier to paint.

The main reason people buy them is probably that they're brainwashed to buy official models if at all possible.

Yes, they're good value compared to a lot of other kits, and metal miniatures are not great for games where you run around on rooftops and stuff a lot (because sliding off and falling over) but something like a box of perry miniatures medieval stuff is way better value for money and way better detail. Although to be fair, minis made specifically to look like adventuring explorers carrying lots of random doodads aren't super common.

>>47853425
You are misunderstanding Frostgrave.

Its a ruleset produced by Osprey that happens to have miniatures produced by North Star. But you are under no obligation to use the miniatures or even the default setting, they did this as a deliberate choice to let people make use of their existing collections. Or to let people use it for whatever theme/setting they want.

Given the huge amount of converting/fluffing this has led to that can only be called a good thing. And the plastic boxes they make for it have been very well received. There was a real shortage of this kind of thing in the market.

>>47853695
>I think it makes perfect sense. I don't like the frostgrave models either, but to me one of the major selling points was "use whatever you think is cool and nobody can have a shitfit about it" which is such a nice change from playing with retards in 40k who try to have you disqualified if you have some space marine clone from another manufacturer on the table.
Yeah, although as much as I'd like to just field Orks that are made from Spellcrow pirate orc bits or chaos marines using kitbashes of Evil Craft, Maxmini and Puppetswar bits, I understand that "don't buy our minis" makes little business sense. I know that giving something "for free" is nice bait (like with Infinity's free rules and Army Builder), but when it's the miniatures themselves they tell you to not buy it's a bit weird.

Frostgrave just comes across as a little too desperate.

>>47853756
>Desperate

Literally how?
It's published by a company that already has several rules sets out that dont' have their own specific miniature lines.

In fact, MOST miniature wargames are like this, it's GW and their ilk that are the exception.

I have no idea whatsoever how you can look at something that goes "use whatever minis you want man" and call that desperate.

You want desperate, look at the companies who write rules specifically to sell you their newest plastic crack release.

>>47853756
How? Osprey don't make miniatures, they don't care what you use.

The official rulebook does not even use the Frostgrave Soldiers models in its photos because they were not ready when they wrote it.

>>47853803
>The official rulebook does not even use the Frostgrave Soldiers models in its photos because they were not ready when they wrote it.

It does though. I have no idea where you got that from.

There are some other lines of minis in pics as well though, like wargames factory skeletons.

>>47853817
I am looking at it right now, most of the pictures use Fireforge Games foot sergeants with greenstuff winter cloaks.

>>47853857
I'm looking at mine and it has the northstar wizards from the kits, northstar soldiers , northstar barbarian and so on and so forth.

There are mantic ghouls and wargames factory skellies though.

Mine is the hardcover.

>>47853777
>It's published by a company that already has several rules sets out that dont' have their own specific miniature lines.
Probably because of all games of that type Frostgrave seems to be the most advertised, with people going out of their way to try pulling players from other systems.
Like yeah, I know there are niche rulesets that often have only paper tokens at the end of the book for photocopying and cutting out.
But when there's actual miniatures produced and they go "you don't have to buy them"? And the setting is very generic on top? I'm amazed how it manages to sell. Because if you don't wow customers with your miniatures you need something else, like a weird setting (like Fairy Meat) for example.
Similarly Spellcrow makes their own skirmish game called Umbra Turris. Almost everyone from their tiny playerbase plays the Dyniaq faction because it's the only one that looks "different".


Also technically GW doesn't produce miniatures for their games, Citadel and Forge World do.

>>47853902
I don't want to be a dick but you seriously sound like you've mostly just played GW or whatever all your life.

MOST lines of miniatures are for historical wargames that basically never, ever have a rule set tied to a specific line of miniatures. Like, that's what the MAJORITY of the wargaming hobby looks like. There are tons of manufacturers that just churn out stuff that people use for all kinds of different games, napoleonics, worldwars, whatever.

This time they teamed up with a manufacturer (northstar games is not in any way owned by osprey) to make kits for their game, which makes sense since it's a game with 10 miniatures per army that you don't actually have to commit to a giant release schedule for.

But saying that the minis are the thing that draws people to a system is absolutely bullshit, since there are more generic systems than there are miniature-line specific systems.

>>47853889
By 'Frostgrave Soldiers' I mean the plastic box not the metal guys.

>>47853902
Are you misunderstanding on purpose? Osprey and North Star are entirely separate companies.

Not only do lots of people like the official miniatures but 'use whatever models you like' has been a huge draw. The amount of converted warbands its generated has been huge. Plus people are breaking out old school models that would not have seen much use.

People like the concept and they like the rules. The scope for conversions and your dudes warbands sure doesn't hurt.

>>47853939
>But saying that the minis are the thing that draws people to a system is absolutely bullshit, since there are more generic systems than there are miniature-line specific systems.
And are those the ones played?

I find your argument about historicals bullshit; yeah, there's a lot of historical miniatures, but I mostly see people play with those with a ruleset attached to them, like Saga, By Fire and By Sword, Deus Vult, Flames of War etc. Almost every miniatures company seems to be pushing a ruleset with their minis or jumping on an existing one, like 40k or D&D. Maybe it's different with historical minis, because those seem mostly aimed at collectors rather than players.
Miniatures are the tangible thing people see when browsing for games.
Also Frostgrave is not historical.


>>47853956
>Are you misunderstanding on purpose? Osprey and North Star are entirely separate companies.

Yeah, but those North Star miniatures boast a giant Frostgrave logo on their packaging, so they are Frostgrave miniatures, no two ways about it. It doesn't matter if someone else makes the rules. It's just like with GW actually, GW makes the rules, Citadel makes the miniatures, they are just probably more integrated with one another than Osprey and North Star.

What is even Osprey making money off?

>>47854089
Citadel and GW are the same damn company, stop being disingenuous. Osprey makes money on selling the books, the rulebook keeps selling out print runs so they cannot be doing too badly.

People play Bolt Action with models from several different companies, same with Flames of War or SAGA. I have never met someone who actually plays Deus Vult but people still buy the models a lot, including for Frostgrave.

Then there is Perry Miniatures who sell huge amounts for fantasy games and historical systems like Black Powder and Hail Caesar.

The main point is that pretending Ospreys customer friendly decision to actively tell you to use whatever you want is somehow a criticism is absurd.

>>47854089
>Miniatures are the tangible thing people see when browsing for games.
Not that guy, but from my experience it's usually other way around.

There arre many guys who only spotted a game, because they were looking a mini "for that conversion".

I also think you are underestimating the number of really small companies (literally one guy working in his garage, probably has a day job as well), which tips the scale to the favor of "miniature lines without associated games".

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>>47854089
>What is even Osprey making money off?

Man, you just went full retard.
Osprey is a huge publishing company that specializes in historical military books.

Osprey games is a tiny sub-faction of Osprey that has published games like Dragon/Lion Rampant, Black Ops, Fighting Sails, En Garde and Frostgrave.

Most of their money they get from stuff like this:

>>47854089
Your argument is still completely ass-backwards.

If someone sells a rules set and tells you to use whatever minis you like, that's confidence in the product.

When someone tells you "get our rules set so you can play with our awesome space marines" that's like saying "buy our album because the singer has amazing tits"

>>47854354
>When someone tells you "get our rules set so you can play with our awesome space marines" that's like saying "buy our album because the singer has amazing tits"
But that's how Infinity works, they release all their rules for free, making money on the miniatures and the fluff instead. I don't think you understand my point at all.

>>47854330
>Most of their money they get from stuff like this:
So it's not their game. Not really disproved my point there, friend.

>>47854509
>So it's not their game. Not really disproved my point there, friend.

Open the first fucking page of the book, it says Osprey games.

You're not even arguing a point any more, you're just in damage control mode because people are pointing out what a retard you are. Go shit up the frostgrave or skirmish games thread instead and get out of the Antares one.

>>47854531
You misunderstand me. I meant that it's not their game that they make money off, but rather the historical books. Like you said so yourself.

This whole thread took a turn for damage control once Frostgrave's miniatures policy was mentioned, which was originally as a point against Antares – miniatures are what often makes or breaks the game. And Antares looks uninspiring compared to it's competition. Same with Frostgrave.

>>47849169
I think the cause of this is the financial and time investments a miniatures game requires. A 40k player has probably invested hundreds or thousands of dollars into the game, and hundreds or thousands of hours painting. When you suggest a new game it means more money and even more frightening: more time painting all new stuff. For some people this is daunting. They look at the backlog of miniatures and can't imagine adding all new stuff they need to bump to the front of the pile.

Rick Priestly is massively over rated.

All of GW's genuinely good games were either entirely by co-authored with all the heavy lifting done by other people particularly Jervis Johnson.

>>47854904
*entirely by or co-authored.

>>47854904
>Jervis "Point Values Are Mean" Johnson

>>47854605
On the other hand once you get out of 40k you suddenly realize how many miniature games are there.
And since a lot of them don't require as many miniatures, it mean less time and money investment per game or per faction... So why not collect more than one?
I find myself with this mentality. I was supposed to sell the PanO half of Icestorm, not ogle a possible third faction now and maybe Deus Vult on top of all the non-game minis I collect just to paint.

>>47855578
I understand your point of view and mostly share it myself. I'm just telling you where those people are coming from. I'm the end for a lot of people it's just the shear quantity of time miniature gaming takes up and they have enough trouble keeping up with 40k as it is. People are most likely to try new games when their 40k playing has slowed down or stopped for whatever reason. Then it doesn't matter how much 40k is in the painting cue since they aren't actively playing it.

>>47830456
>Why isn't it more popular?
It isn't 40k so 40kids don't care. Do you honestly think that quality sells?

>>47854605
And as someone with a now massive backlog of MERCS stuff I can get that.

What kills me are the people who won't even TRY another gamd. There's zero commitmwnt, no oblivation and no cost involved to get a ddmo. Yet they'll complain how shit 40k's rules are, how unbalanced the game is and how overpriced GW stuff has gotten. Then a new edition, or a new codex comes aling with some silly giant model and they gobble it up without batting an eye.

Maybe I'm just weird. I think variety is the spice of life and all that jazz. My gamer friends get mad because I have a bookshelf with over 20 systems on it(granted I used to do reviews for a couple of magazines which is where most of those came from) and actual models for 10 or so games with at least one more on the way. My music friends get mad because I can't seem to settle on a genre("what do you mean you listen to Metallica, John Scofield AND Gaelic Storm?").

I'm eilling to invest in multiple good games over one game I don't have fun with. Hell; I haven't even touched my Infinty or Warmachine stuff in a few years.

>>47855871
>game
>commitment
>obligation
Fuck I hate typing on my phone sometimes.

>>47854354
>When someone tells you "get our rules set so you can play with our awesome space marines" that's like saying "buy our album because the singer has amazing tits"
That's how the entire Asian pop scene works.

>>47855871
It's funny, the board game community is the complete opposite. Most people are eternally chasing new games and abandoning old ones. Many gamers buy a game and only play it 1 or 2 times.

>>47855871

Yeah I've got a massive backlog of MERCS too. I'm committed though! With 2.0 the game is in a great place, they really fixed every problem.

>>47857071
Amen. I'm pretty stoked. Need to round out my teams, though. Must have that GCC heavy.

>>47855421
Jervis died back in 2002. Ever since then they've just used him as a meat puppet.

Poopmen?

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>>47834944

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These are the poopmen I was referring to.

>>47857405
I want to paint them shades of brown.

>>47855871
>My music friends get mad because I can't seem to settle on a genre("what do you mean you listen to Metallica, John Scofield AND Gaelic Storm?").
Are your friends in highschool?
Aside from some hardcore single-genre fans (like many metalheads) most people don't listen to a single genre.

>>47856461
That's because a board game requires less initial investment and usually has less variation.
Compare it to CCGs or miniature games where there could be different decks/lists every game.

>>47857231

I like the GCC heavy model but play wise he's pretty average. No good PAs but he does have the good machine gun templates so he'll definitely see play

>>47857612
Enough with the stigma! As a metalgrunt, I listen to all kinds of music: black metal, agnostic black metal, darkened black metal, progressive vegetarian grindcore, and even some lounge!
Oh, and: 15mm master race

>>47857853
I think "back off" is pretty good. Means he can keep stepping away from melee guys and laying into them with his guns.

Mostly I just think he LOOKS bitchin'.

>>47857635
I know why it is, it's just an amusing phenomena to see.

>>47854585
What competition? I cannot even think of another officially supported fantasy skirmish game out right now that is like Frostgrave.

Either way the Frostgrave plastics have been very well received, people who don't even play Frostgrave buy them because there simply wasn't a good plastic adventurers or cultist kit on the market.

>>47858081
>Frostgrave buy them because there simply wasn't a good plastic adventurers or cultist kit on the market.

Agreed, look at the classic empire militia kit for warhammer, lots of people that didn't even play warhammer bought it as it was a nice flexible kit.

I can see what the other guy is saying in Agatha the frostgrave kits are a little bland. but they lend themselves well to conversions, and from what I can tell a significant proportion of the fanbase are much older gamers used to far worse minis.

The metals a re quite good although i'm not seeing the point in this whole gnoll kickstarter, apart from discworld I have never read a fantasy novel that had gnolls, I think they should have went differently there.

>>47858081
Whenever I see people talk about Frostgrave on the internet I think of Arthas saying "Frostmourne hungers." Over and over again in my head. MAKE IT STOP