EDH/COMMANDER GENERAL

Fun is for losers desu

ITT: We describe commanders using only a video link, everyone else guesses which commander it is.

I'll start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e0NLxQJ55Y

Strawpoll:
Would you consider it rude for someone to make a deck with a commander you already run?

http://www.strawpoll.me/10487504

Built this last week and ran it in a few duels. Performs rather well so far. The land destruction kept my opponent off balance long enough for my creatures to beat face.

Barbaric, but fun as hell.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/that-which-is-best-in-life/

>>47777934
Jarad? Wait no Thromack the insatiable?

>>47777934
Zedruu?

>>47777934
>trash man
Literally any mono white commander?

>>47778314
Is this geared towards 1v1 or multiplayer?
I'll answer further depending on which one

>>47778314
Ah delicious winds of change. Perfect for when you can tell everyone is pretty happy with their starting hand, and you get to go first. "Oh did you keep because it had land or rocks? Well guess what, shuffle that shit up."

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What's the most fun you've had building around a commander, edhg?

Why?

Pic related, he's my baby.

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>>47782994
Kamigawa had some gems in it.

>>47782994
Ha sounds neat. Got a list?

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>>47783017
Naw, my decks are set to private, I've got an autistic tendency to avoid netdecking, I like to feel like a special snowflake with my decks (hence kami)

Think nekusar without the damage, but with hard stasis effects like winter orb, or, well, stasis. wins through windfalling for 50, then doing it again, through combo mind over matter and temple bell/otherworld atlas, or through Lab man+ leveler.

The fun comes through the political side of fueling all decks, watching them kill each other, and then when I get targeted, dropping meekstone, winter orb, Static orb, etc.

Easily my favorite deck.

Thinking of building this bad boy next

>>47777934
Daretti

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>>47783012
The art is some of my favorite

>>47783147
Fair enough. Sounds fun though. I use Kami in my Nekusar build and he does good work from time to time.

What are you thinking with that guy? I take it you are a fan of blue? lol

So my dad, who played Magic back in the 80's, gave me what remains of his collection. So far, going through it I've found some great additions to my collection - at near mint I've got Blood Moon, Wasteland, three Strip Mines, Ensnaring Bridge, a few Swords, Path, and more that I haven't seen yet. Found a City of Brass from Arabian Nights but it's in really terrible condition for selling, fine for playing sleeved - at least I don't need to buy one now!

>>47783949
To clarify, he played on and off from the 80's to about two years ago. Pretty excited to see what else I can find for my EDH decks!

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>>47783949
>>47783959

>80's

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>>47783949

>>47783147
>special snowflake with my decks (hence kami)
>hard stasis effects like winter orb, or, well, stasis. wins through windfalling for 50, then doing it again, through combo mind over matter and temple bell/otherworld atlas, or through Lab man+ leveler.
That's like. Kami 1.0.

>>47779583

I mostly play duels with my roommate, but I play multiplayer games once or twice a month. I'm sure it'll get absolutely crushed in multiplayer games.

The end goal will probably be either to convert it over to a Kresh deck or a Krenko goblins deck once I get the cards for it.

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>>47784164

What you heard me tell you of is kami 1.0

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>>47783949
Magic was created in the 90's, not the 80's.
Doubt you were baiting, your dad probably BS'ed you with talk of playing in the 80's.

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>>47785260
>>47784164

Why would I go through the trouble of explaining why I set my decks to private if I was to explain immediately after what makes them special snowflakes? That defeats the purpose, so I explained the basic idea of what kami decks try to accomplish

>>47783846
I thought I kinda liked blue, then as I built kami, I realized it's my favorite.

They don't say "anything you can do, blue can do better" for nothing

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Why have I never heard of this for colorless draw? Seems like a solid include for karn/ulamog (kozilek) decks

Bizzare art too, kinda reminds me of the janky old Pokémon card 3D-model art

>>47777934

For most recent commander

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1b8AhIsSYQ

>stealing everyone's Sol Rings and Thran Dynamos with Thada Adel
>ramping into fuckhuge artifact creatures stolen from the resident Muzzio deck
>using Quicksilver Fountain to turn stuff into Islands
>dealing damage to non-blue players and exiling their wincons and threats

Thada Adel fucking rules oh my God

>>47785592

Because you're paying 6 mana to draw 1 card unless you happen to draw one of those charge counter support cards

It requires an entire deck built around it to draw 1 extra card per turn (ignoring untaps) for 3 extra mana

>>47786528

Jokes on you I don't run sol ring

notice me /tg/ ;_;

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/green-blue-alury-recycle-3cmc-creature-nly-deck/

I need a bit of feedback for how this deck fleshes out, it stalls out around turn 5-7, but then hits hard again once i draw naturally into my bigger stuff. Any tips or advice on more utility creatures to put in? preferably blue and green to combo off momir

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So i had this idea for a deck and am currently brewing but i need some help. Think of it as a Zedruu deck but in grixis.
I run things like Phyrexian negator with red boardwipes, bronze bombshell, steel golem, demonic taskmaster and even lord of the pit and lots of ways to give them to my opponents.

It's going to be terribly awesome.

But i need more thing to give to my opponents. What are some bad things I can donate away?

>>47786528
I ran Thada once. Then everyone got sick of my shit and killed her all the time. Bummed me out

>>47785592
If only it was just remove three counters to draw...

>>47787366
There's like two cards in Grixis colors that can repeatedly donate things, so it seems like the deck might be pretty inconsistent.

>>47787425
not saying it would be good, i wnat it to be fun

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Would it make me a dick to proxy Ulamog in a deck that runs big creatures? What is the threshold for foul play?

>>47787521
>Proxy
If you don't own the card, you don't get to play with it.

Proxying a fucking 10 dollar card makes you a broke moron or a lazy one, but not a dick.

>>47786528
Shit, she looks fun. Too bad my group is almost devoid of artifacts, I'm the only person who runs them

>>47787521
It's up to your playgroup

>>47787521
I could understand proxying something crazy expensive, but Newlamog? He's like fifteen bucks.

>>47787458

Inconsistency is a problem for both power and fun

Nothing fun about drawing a bunch of shit cards but not drawing any way to give them to your opponents

>>47787685
I have the right colors for card draw and tutors and instant sorcery recursion so i can reuse the donate spells.
I should be fine, i at least wanna try.

>>47787591
not him, but fuck paying more than 8 dollars on a single card. only exception being cabal coffers

(elesh norn i bought for 20 because the guy sold me two for that price. i couldn't pass that up)

>>47787832
If 8 dollars is your upper limit on buying singles, here are your options if you want to play with a 15 dollar card

1) Open packs until you get one
2) Trade for it
3) Go without

>>47787905

You forgot one option

>>47787832
>fuck paying more than 8 dollars on a single card
>elesh norn i bought for 20 because the guy sold me two for that price

>>47787905
i just go without or see if my friends arent using a copy. otherwise it isn't that important.

ie: craterhoof, i use overwhelming, garruk wildspeaker, or triumph.

>>47788026
they were 22 bucks a pop at the time, and they were both christmas presents. problem?

>>47788064
You kind of contradicted yourself

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>>47788080
for a cabal coffers that i can't get back from ex that i bought norn for? sure, ill make that one exception in the future, for a used torment edition only. would i ever spend over 8 for something else? no.

understood?

>>47788136
Then you don't get to use cards over $8.

>>47787931
Oh, right.

4) Get a job

>>47788146

This is what you want to believe, because it would ease your buyer's remorse

but unfortunately the facts disagree

Saw a card here a few days ago. White sorc I think. Had something like, "At the next endstep, return permanents that were put into gy this turn into battlefield."
Anyone know what it was called?

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>>47787832
>Fuck spending more than eight dollars on a card in an eternal format.

>>47788146
>he thinks he can tell me what i can't make an exception to my own rule of purchasing cards

*insertjerkingoffmotion.gifhere*

>>47788209
Faith's reward?

>>47788209
You sure it's a sorcery? Faith's Reward and Second Sunrise both fit that description, but both are instants.

>>47788207
>HURRRRRR I REFUSE TO ACTUALLY BUY CARDS
>HURRRRRR BUT I FEEL ENTITLED TO THEM
>HURRRRRR YOU'RE A MORON FOR ACTUALLY SUPPORTING THE GAME

>>47788218
No, we're just mocking your inconsistent logic.

Had it been "I prefer not buying cards that cost more than 8 dollars, unless I'll get a ton of use out of them or they're a really good deal" nobody would've batted an eye.

"I don't pay more than $8 for a card, except these several times that I did" makes you sound like a wishy-washy dipshit.

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>>47788221
Thank you!

Mulling over a mardu control deck with Zurgo. Bullet points are:
- world slayer
- chandras ignition
- tainted strike
- armageddon

I want to bleed opponents and just slug the game until I get a decent mana base and can cast a fatty like Zurgo, or Anya and just wipe everything. Faiths Reward would be great for that I think.

>>47788245

Lol so defensive, never said any of that

but the facts do not satisfy you so you add that narrative to make it more to your liking

It's simply a fact that people can play magic without buying cards

Sorry that you're butt hurt about that

>>47788245
Saying "hurr" in front of things is not an argument. That fellow might as well reply to you
>HURR I MUST PAY THE CARDS IN ORDER TO LOOK AT THEM
>HURR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T PLAY DON'T DESERVE TO PLAY
>HURR I MUST CAST MYSELF AT WIZARDS' FEET TO ENJOY THEIR PLAYTIME
and then look at that, neither of you have gone anywhere and you've both made yourself look like fools

>>47787832
>>47788029
>>47788136
I think you need a new hobby. This one does not seem to be for you.

>>47788316
>People who can't play don't deserve to play
But that's right.

Whining that you actually have to spend money to play with the cards you want makes you sound like an entitled fucking 10 year old. Do you bitch that you don't get a free PS4 delivered to your house when you want to play games? Do you think you should just be allowed to play them on your cell phone because that's what you have handy?

Do you go "WOOOOOW fucking McDonald's $hill over here" when you get told you have to pay for your fucking meal?

This is a hobby. It's a luxury. You are not entitled to shit. If you don't want to spend money on it, that's fine. If you have a budget, that's fine. But that means you only have access to what's in your budget. If my food budget for the month is 200 dollars total I'm not going to feel entitled to have access to a 500 dollar restaurant just because I want it.

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So I traded for a Marton Stromgald the other day and my friends keep telling me about how bad of a card it is. I tried to put it in my R/W tokens deck but I guess it just doesn't go wide enough to be very effective there. I wish he buffed himself.

I feel a little cheesed off, but I can't shake the thought that this guy could be really good. It doesn't really look like it, but does anybody have any thoughts on this?

>>47788315
>It's simply a fact that people can play magic without buying cards
No, they can't. They can play with little pieces of paper or counterfeits instead of supporting the game they like. And if someone played a 'proxy' that wasn't either a card they own that's in another deck, or a card they're testing, I would promptly pick their deck up and throw it across the room.

If you don't want to put the money into the hobby, then you don't get to enjoy the hobby. WotCaHS and the world at large don't owe you shit.

>>47788315
>It's simply a fact that people can play magic without buying cards

By mooching off of other people? You need to stop being a fucking NEET or kill yourself.

>>47788136
Get a job.
Do you go to movies or spend more than $8 on drinks and billiards at a bar? I justify the money spent because dropping a fatty or competing with my friends who also have good cards is well worth the money when compared to other forms of entertainment.

>>47788391
No, he probably just tries to sneak in the back and then makes fun of the people who paid to get in when the ushers throw him out.

Or he tries to steal other people's unattended glasses and mocks them for paying money for beer when they can just steal it for free.

>>47788267
now i feel you are just projecting at this point. sure im saying i would break my own rule once, if the opportunity arises, but ive never done it after i made up the rule after i bought the norns. you want to chastize me for that, go fuck yourself, quite frankly.

>>47788333
what makes you come to that conclusion? that seems silly, considering the cards i have, i have acquired over years since before high school, that my friends and i have pooled over the years collectively. we value each other's company more than whos got the bigger epeen deck

>>47788391
>>47788411
i go to the discout theater, if i do go, and we usually go during the day, so its about 6 bucks a ticket. also, going to the bar is a waste of money, friend has a billiards table

>>47788382

But that's just you

If somebody did that with me, they would get to play the game

So *as a matter of fact* you're simply wrong

I'm sorry

It may not be morally right in your eyes but the world is not always morally right, it is what it is

>>47788464
Way to totally miss the point.

If you have a budget that you need to stick to, that's fine. You go to the budget theater and you don't get snacks, alright. You get drunk with friends instead of going to the bar, also alright. Those are the equivalent of you not going over your 8 dollar price tag for Magic, which is fine.

But when you decide you're just gonna proxy whatever's over your price tag, that's not the same thing as respecting your budget. That's you deciding that you're entitled to whatever you want, even if you can't afford it on your budget. That's you sneaking into the movie theater instead of going to the discount. That's you sneaking into a bar to avoid the cover and stealing drinks or putting them on a tab you're gonna skip out on. That's you deciding to just shoplift a Fat Pack from Walmart because you feel fucking ENTITLED to whatever you want even if you can't (or won't) pay for it.

If 8 dollars is your budget, that's fine. But if you have an 8 dollar budget you -do not get to play with 9+ dollar cards-.

>>47788375
Usual strat is make him indestructible or unblockable in a token spam deck and swing for the fences. He's a worse craterhoof but in red and should be played as such.

>>47788479
You're not playing Magic. You aren't using Magic cards, you aren't supporting the game, you're sitting around with black and white printout pretending to play Magic in your retard helmet because your mommy taught you that you're the specialist snowflake in the world and you're entitled to anything you want.

That's not reality, jack. You aren't special and the world doesn't owe you shit.

>>47788505
>pay to win is the only way to play
Fuck that nonsense.

>>47786528
>tfw no one uses mana rocks or huge artifact creatures in my group so nothing good to steal

Life is suffering

>>47788505

You're living in a fantasy land

People can and do play magic with cards that are outside your budget

You can scream and wail and stamp your feet but that won't change anything

I think you have serious mental problems, man, worrying about things you cannot change is guaranteed to make you miserable

Guys I have a Krond deck but it seems like it sucks. I have good cards but it seems like G/W enchantments just isn't strong enough. I run it mostly out of nostalgia for a deck I had as a child.
My question is this, do I break it apart to make a Boros deck and strengthen my Karlov deck? I bought the R/W precon (I know the shittiest but Target had it on clearance) so I have a base for that. Or is there a way to save G/W with something like Sigarda and running all hexproof creatures. I really dont want to let my foil rancor rot in my binder.

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>>47788519

>>47788519

You keep going on and on with this "entitlement" thing but you're the only one here who feels entitled to something

You paid for cards and you feel entitled to be part of a special group for doing so

Whereas people who proxy aren't doing so because they feel "entitled" to anything, they are doing it because then can, and they want to

>>47788551

Well yeah auras are shit without hexproof

It's unfortunate but that's life

G/W enchantments is very powerful though, regardless of whether you use the aura hexproof strat, it's enough to simply draw a million cards and set up a bunch of oppressive enchantments and recur them if they are destroyed

>>47786817
Unless you play Kurkesh, but even then its pretty mediocre.

>>47788637

Right yeah I'm not saying it's a worthless card I was just explaining why it doesn't get a lot of attention, it's part of a pretty specific deck and the rewards for building around it aren't that great

>go to an LGS to trade about 6 years ago
>EDH is pretty new and there really aren't any netdecks
>some nerd asks to play
>friend and I agree
>he is running a progenitus lands deck, basically just wants to durddle around with lands of every color
>runs full proxies of every fetch and shock, and other stuff like maze of ith (his progenitus had a major crease right through the middle, but that is irrelevant)
>friend and I are running jank, basically whatever cards we had thrown together to make decentstuff.dec
>he is wrecking us, beating face with manlands and control
>friend drops cataclysm
>random nerd scoops
>worst game, felt robbed
I thought the whole point of the format was to play cards in your collection that would never see 60-card play. The whole proxy thing seems silly when it is meant to be fun and many cards have a lower power lower priced alternative.

>Glimpse the Unthinkable is $30
What the fuck

>>47788693

>mind funeral only $4

And they said modern masters printings didn't help prices

>>47788693
I own a foil one, the prices are obscene for what is essentially pure jank.

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Where were you when you realized your group were shitters?

>playing new ezuri against old ezuri elfball, karametra, and keranos
>manage to get out an ichorclaw myr, kaseto, hardened scales, with about 8 experience counters
>stack all counters from the combat phase on ichorclaw making him 11/11
>use kaseto to make it unblockable and swing at ezuri
>salt streams from ezuri guy calling bullshit on it, keranos bounces it before attack goes off cause that's not fair
>keep ichorclaw i hand sensing the hate, get out invisible stalker destroy ezuri anyways and pull politics to get karametra to destroy keranos, then beat karametra with invisible stalker
>next game switch to a more crappy deck to calm down everyone
>Ezuri player still playing his deck wants vengeance and gets out viridian corrupter and swings at me with it getting a buff to make it 13/13
>in response I bounce his viridian corrupter
>entire table flips out saying I'm an asshole for not taking the infect

I guess I'm supposed to let butthurt people kill me cause I killed them in the previous game?

>>47788693
A mill win is every jank deck playing nerd's dream. Hell I made sure I got a playset of hedron crabs, mind grinds, etc when they came out. The dream is real. When a mill deck wins a modern GP or PT I will be so happy.

>>47788505
so lets refer to my original post, sally. pay attention to the first sentence there.

>>47787832
>not him, but fuck paying
>not him

tell me how to show which posts are mine and ill be glad to prove it. no way would i proxy a newlamog, i'd rather go without. only one who proxys in my group is for the legacy cube that is my friend's (the two people most into the game buy cards beyond my budget, i supplied some i had in my kit) pet project. even then, they are alter arts and are obvious.

all in all though, just because im willing to make one exception to acquire a card that i have had since high school, gave to my ex for her mirri the cursed deck, and she absconded with, doesnt mean you can tell me i can't use cards over 9 dollars. you have no right to tell others how to interact and play with their playgroup. i will continue to use the maelstrom pulse, sheoldreds, liliana heretical healer ,mikaeus the unhallowed, and all the other ones i can't think of right now. you want to cry about it more? cry to your playgroup instead.

>>47788526
It's not pay to win, it's "you're not entitled to the fucking game for free".

You gonna call any video game on the planet "pay to win" because you have to actually fucking buy it?

>>47788722

I don't believe your story man

Give me a reason to believe it, give me the details that make your friends seem like humans rather than caricatures

>>47788544
I don't give a fuck about people's budgets. Mine is higher than his or lower than hers, and I don't care.

I don't expect everyone to have my budget. I don't demand that the guy with russian foil shocklands limit himself to 50 dollars per card, nor do I demand that the guy who can only afford to spend 20 dollars a month on the game get full Alpha duals. I'm happy for people to play with.

What rustles my jimmies, you reading-comprehension-addled mongoloid, is when people set a budget and then decide they feel ENTITLED to cards outside that budget. If you only want to spend 10 dollars max on a card, that's fine, but it means you do not get to play with 30 dollar cards.

>>47788682
The point of the game rules-wise is to defeat your opponents. To do this, players will design the most effective decks to accomplish that goal. Some people enjoy this play style in a casual multiplayer format, others do not. To this end, some cards are outside of the price range of the player but would be necessary to create that player's vision of the best possible deck.

Proxies are, in my opinion, a reflection of an unhealthy secondary market due to the inability of the majority of players to play whatever they want in a simple hobby. I would not fault the person in your example for his proxying because he most likely just wanted to play his ideal deck without dropping several hundred dollars or more just to create it. I will, however, fault him for being a man-baby and scooping to a cataclysm and having no way to recover, apparently, built in to his deck.

>>47788575
If you play with counterfeits (not proxies, fucking counterfeits) it's the same as shoplifting a pack from Walmart, or pirating a game.

You're saying "I feel ENTITLED to enjoy this product for free. I don't think that the people who created this product I enjoy deserve any money for their efforts. I want it, so I should get it, and if I don't wanna pay for it then I'm not going to, but I should still get to enjoy it."

I'd like to bang a 2000 dollar a night hooker, but I can't afford that. Do you see me whining about how I should get to fuck her for free just because I want to? No, because I'm not 5 fucking years old.

>>47788722
When they tried to cheat me out of a win

Felt good blowing up their lands and creatures to lock them out and then beating them to death with my single creature

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>>47788809
>If you play with counterfeits (not proxies, fucking counterfeits) it's the same as shoplifting a pack from Walmart, or pirating a game.
>shoplifting the same as pirating a game
who invited the fucking RIAA

>>47788778

I accidentally said "your" budget when I meant to say "their budget"

People can and do play with cards outside their budget

You keep repeating this obviously false statement "you don't get to play with cards outside your budget", but people do, all the time, you've seen it happen yourself

you can say it's "not real magic", that's fine, the people who play with proxies are only interested in casting spells and activating abilities and such, they don't care about the status of "real" magic that you paid good money for

>>47788809
>I don't think that the people who created this product I enjoy deserve any money for their efforts.
>implying Wizards gets shit from the secondary market sale of cards they sold in packs for $4
Focus, man. We're not talking about hookers or McDonald's, we're talking about trading cards.

>>47788839
>WAAAAAAH I SHOULD GET TO PLAY WHATEVER I WANT WITHOUT PAYING
>YOU'RE JUST AN RIAA SHILL JEW IF YOU ACTUALLY PAY TO PLAY THINGS

I like Magic. It's a fun game, and I understand that it's made by a for-profit corporation. People worked hard to create the product. They have design teams to create the world and the lore, they have R&D to develop and refine the mechanics, they pay artists to make badass art, etc, etc. All that effort leads to a product, and I pay money for that product because that's how the real world works. If you want something that someone created, you fucking pay them. You don't just roll around throwing a goddamned tantrum because you feel like you should get whatever you want.

>>47788778
so, you are saying if i somehow got a sylvan library, from a friend, or from a trade, or however else, i am not allowed to use it?

if so, quit crying, not everyone had to buy cards to play.

>>47788852
I may not be communicating right.

If your budget is 8 dollars and you traded for a 30 dollar card, I don't care. If your budget is 8 dollars and you cracked an EMA pack and got a foil Crypt, I don't care. If your budget is 8 dollars and you bought a card for 8 dollars the week before it skyrocketed to 50, I don't care. If your budget is 8 dollars and you use a Christmas bonus to buy duals, I don't care. If your budget is 8 dollars but you skim a little out of your vidya budget to buy some shocks, I don't care.

If your hardline "I will spend no more than this ever" budget is 8 dollars, but you want a 30 dollar card, so you decide to write "OOLAMUG" on a Plains because you feel like you should get to use whatever you want, then you're a dick and I hate you.

Clearer?

>>47788809

Again you're the only one here who feels entitled to something

You're the only one here who is whining

Everybody without the same scruples as you is simply enjoying playing with fake cards, because they can, because there's no downside for them

If it were possible to pirate a hooker I'm sure people would do that to

I'm not trying to justify anything here I'm just explaining that you seem to be confused about how the world works, people take what they can

i use proxies to test decks or if i've got cards in the mail that don't make it before i'm going to play

i don't understand why people use them any other way

>>47788367
>47788136
at the same time paying any amount of currency for a coloured piece of paper makes you sound completely sane, right?

>>47788789
My point is that my friends and I were running jank decks because that it what we had and what was in our budgets. Then we play against someone who had a 50% proxied deck. We felt robbed of fun since he just ran a fine tuned deck but didnt actually own the cards. I think it was meant to be a casual format at the start but has become much more competitive since it is such a great format. This was 6 years ago, before wizards ever recognized it and made precons. No wonder no one else there would play with him so he asked the guys that just walked in the door.

>>47788880
No, I was explaining it poorly. I mean that if you have a budget, and cards you want are outside that, then you don't just get to 'proxy' them up because you feel like the universe owes you those cards.

>>47788894
>because there's no downside for them
Until Wizards stops making the game because a bunch of entitled fucking brats decided the universe owes them whatever they want for free.

Yeah, I'm mad. But I don't think it's "entitlement" to be upset at stupid fucks like you deciding they can have whatever they want for free. Shitty attitudes like that kill games and communities, and I actually LIKE this one, so it pisses me off when people refuse to support it but continue to 'enjoy' it and feel like the world owes them whatever they want. THAT is fucking entitlement.

>>47788873

Again, only one of us is typing in all caps to signify their rage

You are throwing a tantrum because people are playing magic without paying for the cards they are using

It's really making me feel sad, I'm worried about you man

>>47788764
The Karametra player didn't really care one way or the other as long as you didn't fuck with him he was ready to look the other way but he would go cutthroat if he would benefit from it. Keranos guy is a tryhard and would always try to combo out, usually omniscience into insurrection or firemind insight. Elfball guy claims mtg is way too expensive so he proxies card which is whatever but wants to proxy stuff like sylvan library or green sun zenith. I can't make you believe you my story its up to you if you want to think I'm full of shit.

>>47788809
If I could print out a hooker I would. Your argument is on the same intellectual level as those "You wouldn't download a car" anti-piracy adds.

Printing a proxy does not remove product form a store's shelf. It is not theft. It is copyright infringement of Wizard's product and does not affect them beyond that. It hurts the secondary market, the ones who have the real versions of the counterfeits and proxies, because that's one less sale for them. However, there is a distinct lack of supply for many proxies such as dual lands, force of wills, and many one-print-run cards, especially the reserve list cards. The finite number of these items has driven many, many stores to allow a number of proxies in decks during tournaments in an effort to keep the format alive. When the supply of your hobby has reached the point where you cannot play unless you make fakes due to a lack thereof, you are both killing the hobby and stating only a special select few can enjoy what remains.

If you like the idea of maybe playing one or two people on legacy night, and never finding another vintage player again, have a blanket ban on proxies. If you want to, y'know, have fun, then let some of it slide.

Note: I don't like proxying an entire deck, or proxying cards that are available enough or in current rotation.

>>47788926
I'm frustrated because people feel entitled to play a game without supporting the creators. I understand it's "gonna happen" no matter what. People pirate games and then bemoan DRM and a shift towards pay-to-win cell phone games and microtransactions. People steal CDs and movies from Walmart and then bitch about rising costs and anti-theft measures that make it harder to enjoy things they acquired legally. People drive without insurance and then I have to absorb that cost by paying extra for underinsured coverage.

I'm frustrated when I have to talk to people who feel entitled to whatever they want without going through the proper channels. I'm frustrated when people feel like they should get to play a game just because they want to, fuck paying for it and supporting the creators. Yeah, I'm frustrated, but I'm not the entitled one here, not by a long shot.

>>47788880
not even that person but no he did not say that. If you somehow acquired a card through a trade or gift you are absolutely allowed to play it. What he is saying is that playing with cards you refuse to spend the money on but still feel like you should be able to play them is not how the world works. If your friends all play $500 dollar decks either make a similar deck or play a deck that doesn't need expensive cards or is just meant to be fun. Don't proxy cards outside your budget because you feel you need to keep up.

>>47788978
Fucking thank you.

> it's another lets ruin a thread by talking about proxies and poor people playing a casual format with proxies how fucking dare they thread
This meme needs to die. Keep the fucking proxy autism in modern where it belongs instead of the jank format thread where it's entirely okay to build a deck with sea serpents just to fit a theme.

You know what's allowed at an edh table? Whatever the fucking table allows, as intended by the very nature of the format.

Now everyone go back to your regularly scheduled commander shit posting.

>>47788893
jesus christ, can you get some reading comprehension? that might not even be the guy who wanted a newlamog. I'M the one with the budget you twat.

for reference
>>47788880
>>47788743
>>47788464
>>47788218
>>47788136
>>47788064
>>47787832


can you follow the bread crumbs, shirley? im not

>>47787521

at all.

>>47788920
>>47788978

i never fucking said the universe owes me cards. now get your heads out of your asses please. this is the exact reason we should have those god damn tags like /soc/ does, to avoid this bullshit

>>47788899
What is art?
Are you saying people who pay millions for a Van Gogh are insane? Things have value beyond the sum of their parts.

>>47789018
Oh sure, it's allowed. I'm not arguing it isn't.

I just say that you're a shithead if you feel like you should 'get to' play Magic without paying a cent.

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>>47789018
I'd fucking love to.
Anyone have anything particlarly outstanding to say on Deathrite in EDH? I pulled one in my EMA draft, expecting it to pretty much do work every turn.

>>47788907
All playgroups go through this. Everyone plays at a certain level, then someone makes a better deck, then the playgroup either matches that level or gets smaller.

Powerlevel has never been a problem for a healthy playgroup in my experience. It's usually salty players who don't like losing all the time, so they blame some factor about the dominant deck. I've seen almost the exact same argument against an L2 judge who plays EDH, except people were upset that he received a lot of "free" cards that beefed up his decks. Same thing against a guy who just spent a shitton of money on his EDH deck. It's not the proxies, it's the feeling of being crushed by a better deck with more fine-tuning that would be difficult to match with your current budgets and/or scruples.

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>>47789026
aside from the stupid fucking japanese internet im stuck with, i did post that sylvan library comment otherwise, heres the nail in the coffin

>>47789086
It's brettygud. Can help deter reanimation shenanigans (even hitting YOUR shit to stop people from stealing it), can bleed every opponent at EOT if you've got it untapped, and with the number of fetchlands in the format it can be a mana dork for quite a few turns.

>>47789086
pay attention to how it says a graveyard, not your graveyard

use it for targeted graveyard removal to fuck over reanimator strategies or mimeoplasm

>>47788898
>i use proxies to test decks or if i've got cards in the mail that don't make it before i'm going to play

I have never seen a more reasonable post in my life, although I will admit I proxy cards that do cost at least $50+ provided that I have it and show it to my group as proof. Just mark down the name on a basic land in that case cause I hate playing with sleeves.

>>47789026
My point stands.

If a PERSON'S budget is X dollars, that does not mean they can't play with cards that cost X+1 dollars. It means that if they WANT to play with those cards, they need to save up for it and pay over their budget, crack packs and hope to get lucky, or trade for them.

"I want an Imperial Seal in my deck" does not mean I am entitled to one. I need to actually fucking acquire one to play with it. If I proxy it up because "I want it I want it I want it!" but I don't feel like buying one, I am a dickhead.

This is not targeted at you. This is not targeted at any specific person. This is not even a FACT, it is my personal OPINION that people need to understand they are not entitled to a card just because they want it, and if they operate under that OPINION of their own, I will be disappointed at best and disgusted at worst.

>>47789086
Have a friend who uses him in karador and it works fine as hell. No idea on his list but you can probably guess with karador leading the deck.

>>47788873
I wasn't making that argument, I was saying that conflating shoplifting and torrenting was dumb, and a common claim by the RIAA. That second bit is objectively true.

I have a foil Ghostly Prison. Anyone have a non-foil and is willing to suck my dick for it? Is the card worth running? It fucks over token decks but then I just get my face caved in by Uril or asuza's durngrove elder.

>>47788970
>I'm frustrated because people feel entitled to play a game without supporting the creators.
buying from the secondary market doesn't support the creators, either

>>47789131
i just print something or write it on a piece of paper and put it into the sleeve with a basic land or something because i like sleeves

half of the fun of proxying stuff for testing purposes is when the tests work and then you finish your deck

>>47789158
Alright, I can respect that.

The reason I was using them both as examples was that I dislike both. I'll avoid the whole 'pirating isn't stealing' argument for now, and say that I have only seen people pirate for two reasons: The first is to 'test' something. They pirate a game because they don't want to risk 60 dollars, and if they like it they buy it. Sure. That's not how I prefer to do things, but I can understand and respect it

But the vast majority of the time people pirate things, it's "I want this, but I don't want to pay for it". That's the same core logic behind theft, and I don't respect it.

>>47788970
lets say you can pay a pack of 15 magic cards for 5 bucks. thats a common price and nets you one or 2 rare cards.
if you break it down, the cards are worth their materials plus the design and all the other work put in by the creators.personally i dont think a pack of 15 for 5 is worth it, i buy them anyway as it is infact a simple way to support the creators of one of my favourite hobbies.
however, buying cards from someone out of the mtg community doesnt net WotC anything at all, it doesnt make sense to me to pay horrendous prices for a coloured piece of paper.
i am sure i support WotC enough by buying their products, at the same time i dont see it as damaging to recreate cards that arent even sold by the creators anymore.
especially in a fun, non competetive format as commander paying the equivalent of 60 cards from WotC for a single one does seem counterintuitive to me.

>>47789094
I'm happy my group is way more happy to be playing autistic theme decks that are generally not very optimal, but are pretty fun to see what they jam in there.
I've got a gitrog deck that's themed around swamp creatures, turtles slugs and other creepy crawlies against typical angels theme, a fucking bird deck, and a African safari deck.

>>47789167
No, but the existence of the secondary market helps drive pack sales. Retailers crack packs to stock their singles cases. They buy singles from people who pull them from packs. The game would probably survive without a secondary market, but it would be smaller for sure.

>>47789189
Those singles weren't just printed in a back room at Starcity. They came from packs. The secondary market helps drive the sale of packs. Hell, do you know how many people would never draft again if they couldn't sell back the cards they don't need afterwards?

>>47789167
You could argue that it does. The secondary market supports interest in the game. My 10 year old cards still have value because there is interest in the game and new players willing to buy it from me. As a result I continue to have interest in the game. If there is interest in the game packs are being bought.

>>47789029
ok, in that case my proxxies just dont have any "art" value.
thats fine, i still can support WotC by buying regular packs and dont feel like a shithead.
its not like im trying to fool anyone, those are just from me and if you want so, not valuable at all.

>>47789174
I personally don't like printing out paper of cards I don't own. I feel like a shit if I do it, one of the guys in my play group does it and I don't like it but when we play at "his house his rules" its whatever and the rest of the group doesnt mind so I don't bring it up and risk looking like a gigantic asshole, but I think proxying a card that is like 0.12 is still goofy.

>>47788970
Buying a single does not support the creators, it supports the secondary market. People bemoan DRM but not always, it's usually when the DRM makes a game difficult to play or simply unplayable (ex: Sim City). People don't like pay-to-win games because of the value to enjoyment ratio being completely off from the ratio of games beforehand. People hate cell phone games because they're almost always over-simplified and just plain bad. Price inflation does not help the average consumer. Driving without insurance is illegal.

These arguments are falsely equivalent to proxying a magic card because, unlike all of the examples you listed, a proxied magic card does not affect the creator, does not affect the target consumer base, and costs no one any money. At the end of the day, the cards someone proxied will still have their real versions for sale online or on a store shelf or in a trade binder with their value the same.

A closer argument would be I shouldn't be allowed to print out a picture of "Starry Night" and hang it in my house because it's not the original Van Gogh, but that's stupid.

>>47789162
>Ghostly prison is at $15-$17
>Propaganda is only like $10 at most

What is so special about ghostly prison other than being white?

>>47789222
>No, but the existence of the secondary market helps drive pack sales.
Well, sure, but sales of cards on the Reserved List sure don't drive pack sales. Those cards have been opened and passed around for a long time. Those sales don't help Wizards at all unless you make the argument...
>>47789241
...that those sales drive interest in the game, which you have to acknowledge is also true of proxies. Acceptance of proxies lowers the bar to start playing and enables people who may balk at the initial price to play to ease into the game. EDH is nowhere near as competitive or expensive as, say, Legacy, but how many people have seen Legacy tournaments where proxies were allowed? There's a reason for that. The secondary market doesn't do anything for Wizards that proxies can't also do, other than distress FLGS owners when they have to explain to parents that, yes, people really do pay $40 for that specific piece of cardboard under the counter.

>>47788970

Do you know what entitled means?

You are obviously the entitled one, you just thought it was a word that's only an insult and nothing more so you use it to describe people you don't respect and refuse to admit that you are entitled

Thieves are the opposite of entitled

People with buyer's remorse feel entitled to the knowledge that only they get to enjoy what they paid for and it pains them to know that other people are enjoying the same thing without paying

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>>47789291
>People hate cell phone games cause their always over simplified or just that bad

Love Live Festival is fun though...

Everyone sure is mad in this thread, good Lord

>>47786528
Are there any other creatures with effects like this? I want more Bribery on a stick, that's so fucking radical

>>47789150
as long as its clear, just didnt understand the fuck that anon was saying about if i have a budget, i should not use cards above it. sounded absolutely retarded.

as a side note, any fun cards to put into a kaalia deck? ways to interact with the other players instead of just being a standard kaalia+sweeps.dec

ive got a list that im modifying from a primer i found on mtg salvation

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/run-to-the-hills-3/

for reference

>>47789346
kill yourself you fucking weeb

>>47789350
What, you actually wanted to talk about EDH?

>>47789390
>hating anime
Can you just try to contain your autism?

imagine someone collecting stamps.
he finds a selle of a very rare one, there are about 3 or 4 of those left on the world, and he decides to buy it for some few thousands of dollars.
he keeps this stamp locked and enjoys it for its collective value, that is his hobby.
now iagine someone seeing the exact same stamp in a magazine and think "wew, thats a neat stamp! i would want that stamp to use it on a letter and so on and so on. ill just buy a copy, as i intend to use it and dont care about the inherent value based on its rarity.
its just a nice stamp and i want to use it.
ill just buy a remade one, it does exactly the same for me and costs 20 ct."

>>47789306
It has a more limited printing and might see fringe modern play? That is all I can come up with.

>>47789346
im surprised my dorm mate isnt playing that shit right now... he just bought some figures and doujin a few days ago. only 12 more days till we leave japan...

>>47789378
There's a 7/7 demon that eats the top 7 of someone's deck and you get a free dude from what he exiles, I forget the name.
Acquire is what Thada does, not really Bribery.
Praetor's Grasp.

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>>47789390

>>47789420
No

>>47789427

Good analogy

Everybody wins in this scenario

Collector gets literally exactly what he paid for, pure distilled rarity

Person who wants to send pretty mail gets exactly what they paid for, pretty stickers

>>47789440
Lord of the Void.

>>47789429
I guess I can see that, I don't play modern so I don't keep up with that stuff. But those prices still get a chuckle out of me.

>>47789440

Lord of the void

>>47789440
>Acquire is what Thada does, not really Bribery.
You know what I meant

And thanks

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Can I get some input on my Darien, King of Kjeldor deck?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/darien-king-of-kjeldor-the-sadomasochist/

Also post commanders.

>>47789461
At least you're honest.

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I finally think my manabase is complete. Short of original duals which are out of budget.

Any thoughts?

>>47789595
I had some issues with my Karlov build too and it came down to figuring out what my primary win condition would be. Life gain doesn't win you the game, obviously, so you need to come up with something to shoot for to win and every card should help you get there. Sounds like you're going voltron, so let's work with that.

Voltron has two major weaknesses: protecting the general and connecting. Before you even dream of throwing in neat life gain cards, think of cards that will let Karlov land on an opponent or keep him on board. Swiftfoot Boots, Whispersilk Cloak, etc. and figure out how many of them you need to consistently get them when you need them. Next is the pump. It doesn't have to be all life gain, but it fits the general and can be surprisingly good. To that end, using sub-par cards only because they give life is not an option. Pristine Talisman is a bad card. Goat Post is not. The only exception to this for lifegain cards is ones that can win you the game from out of nowhere like Zuran Orb.

All of this is well and good, but you can't win without mana. Don't focus on mana symbols and getting colors right just yet, just get the lands, rocks, and support cards you need to get there faster than your opponents a.k.a. get effective extra turns on them. Gilded Lotus, Scrubland, Land Tax, Weathered Wayfarer, Knight of the White Orchid, Urborg, Crypt Ghast (double duty with that sexy extort), and more to get your to a target turn where you gack someone. Lands that come in tapped are almost always bad, and lands you need to invest in to make work (cabal coffers, vesuva, rupture spire) will slow you down. Coffers is good, but in any non monoB deck without repleat ways to dig up the combo it is more often than not a dead drop (it only nets mana at 4 swamps, so 5 lands in and no white? Good luck). Limit your non-basics that produce color to half the total mana base. Half basic, half non-basic will both help your land dig in white and help survive ruination.

>>47790005
I don't think you really want painlands like City of Brass and Confluence. I don't see a Reliquary Tower, which could be good.

>>47790076
Disregard that, I see Tower now

>>47790005

Dromar's cavern is bad, cut it for anything else

2/2

Finally, you need support cards, cards that make you harder to deal with or stop enemies from going off. Standard stuff like Path and Swords should be no brainers, but remember you have more life to play with that other people. Necropotence, Ashes to Ashes, Dismember, Toxic Deluge, Avacyn, Iona, Elesh Norn, all can dump on someone and keep you afloat. A couple alternate win cons like Felidar Soverign and Test of Endurance can dick people from out of nowhere. Keep responses handy, tutors for the good stuff (enlightened, demonic, diabolic, vampiric, idyllic, three dreams, etc.), and build from the General out. You should struggle to find enough cards to fill your deck, not worry about what to cut. Don't give up on Karlov, he can be a lot of fun if you go hard in the right spots and focus your idea.

>>47790041

Pristine talisman isn't a bad card though in Karlov

Mana rock that triggers Karlov is perfect

Whereas trading post seems bad in Karlov, discarding cards is not a good way to gain life, and everything else is build around stuff for a different deck

>>47790005
More basics or you'll get blown the fuck out by wasteland + crucible combo or ruination. Also, I cound 47 lands, that seems excessive. Hard to tell so I guessed two basics of each color, if it's three then you're playing 50 lands, which means you'll be flooded to hell and back. Cut the "comes into play tapped" no matter what lands and probably city of traitors unless you plan on a combo win or need lands in your yard for something.

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>2016
>painter's servant is still banned
>sol ring is still unbanned

>>47790144
Pristine talisman is bad because it's a 3 mana rock that only produces one colorless. A good rule of thumb is this: if your general is not out, how good is this card? If the answer is anything below par, do not include. In this case, the number of rocks that cost 3 that are flat better than pristine talisman in this deck are too numerous to justify it's use. At the end of the day, it will give you, at best, two counters a turn IF Karlov is out, but it will not fix your mana, it will not let you use Karlov's ability, it will not tap for more than C. Chromatic Lantern, Basalt Monolith, the myriad of plain "taps for any color" 3CMC rocks, and a bunch of others all beat it out with it's only gimmick being to gain one life in a 40-life format. If you're super budget, sure, throw it in, but it should be replaced with a good card at the first opportunity.

>>47790227
>unsure if ironic or douche bag

>>47790041
Thanks for the help, I feel like I shoehorned in way too many cheap (and kinda bad) lifegain effects which sort of diluted the deck.

>>47790227
>card that can create some damn good combos is banned
>mana rock that can be disrupted by a multitude of cards isn't banned

Not saying painter's servant isn't easily taken care of but comparing a card like that to a mana rock is silly.

>>47790247

I disagree

In a 2 color Karlov deck, it seems on par with chromatic lantern

Basalt monolith isn't even a normal rock I don't recommend it for anybody who isn't playing some sort of combo deck or a deck that untaps artifacts

basalt monolith is like a delayed ritual except it doesn't actually net you any mana

Why am I even talking to somebody who thinks trading post is better than pristine talisman in Karlov

>>47790294
Yeah, Sol Ring enables way more combos that a niche card like Painter's Servant.

>>47790294
The thing about painter's servant combos is that the largely fall into two categories: intentional dick moves that involve playing shitty annoying, aggravating cards like Iona, and neat interactions, like giving everything protection from its own colors, or something like that.

Neither category is something that fits banlist criteria according to the RC. So there's legitimately no reason to ban Servant.

>>47790337
That anon is making the mistake of ignoring your commander when deck building. A lot of people do the opposite: they focus so much on the commander that their deck is helpless without it. Anon is taking this common criticism to the opposite extreme, because anon lacks critical thinking skills.

When building your deck, you can consider interactions with your commander as a justification to bring in a worse card over a generally better option.

>>47790388
I was going to tell you why you're wrong, but I don't even know how to begin. So instead, I'll just say that you're a fucking retard.
Now you say "lol I got you fag"

>>47790460
No, he's definitely right. Without sol ring, a lot of broken combos would not go off before anyone has a chance to respond.

>>47787521
I dont use proxies myself, but I couldnt careless if people do. People should play what they like, and if the money situation cant help them, then proxy up. I do have to say if it is cheap/budget cards, you probably shouldnt use proxies. But hey it depends on your budget and what you think is alright

>>47790495
This is also wrong. Yes, a turn one Sol Ring swings the game heavily in your favor, but that happens fairly rarely, especially with the new mulligans.

>>47790460
Nah, you're the one saying Sol Ring, which is too broken for Legacy, is better than Painter's Servant, which exists in Legacy and Modern without problems and sees only fringe play in the former. Yes, the formats are different, but Legacy's banlist is not completely retarded, unlike multiplayer EDH.

>>47790573
Okey dokey then.

>>47790451
>The thing about painter's servant combos is that the largely fall into two categories: intentional dick moves that involve playing shitty annoying, aggravating cards like Iona, and neat interactions, like giving everything protection from its own colors, or something like that.
>Neither category is something that fits banlist criteria according to the RC. So there's legitimately no reason to ban Servant.

What makes matters worse is that what painter's servant does with another hate card is pretty close to what that card would do by itself against a player that's playing the wrong colors. Why not give Iona the axe and let people play PS?

>When building your deck, you can consider interactions with your commander as a justification to bring in a worse card over a generally better option.

The only disadvantage pristine talisman has over the other rocks is that it produces colorless mana. It's a legitimate niche that the card gains life every turn while producing mana. If his mana base is solid enough that additional color fixing is superflous, there is nothing wrong with reaching a critical mass of lifegain effects.

Pristine talisman is a strange card. It seems terrible at first glance, but it made waves in Standard and limited. Being able to fit more utility into your mana base for a small benefit at a very low opportunity cost is historically one of the most successful strategies in deckbuilding.

>>47790573
>better
Meant more balanced

>>47790616
Honestly, I think Iona is sheldon's waifu. Which is why painter's servant will always remain unjustly banned.

>>47790644
What's annoying is how many other, fun interactions Servant has. The Invasion dragons and OG Teysa come to mind.

>>47790644
I love what Sheldor has done for social M:tG, but the fact that the most popular casual format has a one-size-fits-all approach is worrying.

There are a few factors that make Sheldor a poor representation of the greater commander community.

* He gets any card he wants for free and has stockpiles of format-warping staples.
* He plays with the same groups over and over, so EDH gets changed or stagnated based on the arbitrary machinations of his own Magic games.
* If something doesn't personally ruin HIS games, it's invisible to him. If something happens in his games that he just so happens to not like, it gets banned.
* His ban list is made with unwritten rules that exist in his own metagame. We don't have those unwritten rules, so we get a poor list.

It would be really nice to see an influence on Commander or a Splinter group that isn't based on old farts in an extremely inbred metagame.

>>47790717
Use Duel Commander's banlist, then adjust for things that are different in multiplayer. They have actual tournament results to base bam decisions on, at least.

>>47790717
I'd just appreciate it if sheldon took his duties seriously. His stated attitude is EDH has to exactly conform to my vision for my games, otherwise you're playing it wrong. What I'm doing is art, and I'd rather die than change my policy it"

That's not the unbiased policy I expect from a format maintainer. I really want wizards to pull official commander out of the RC's decrepit hands and maintain their own list while keeping things casual.

No one making a banlist is ever going to be popular. That is just the way things go. Look at modern.
>I have no personal opinion of the next few lines, using as an example.
A lot of people say the splinter twin ban was unneeded
The banning of Eye of Ugin came way too late.
Doesn't wizards playtest this format?

>>47790815
Sure, but I'd rather have wizards manage the format with less subjective bias than the guy who thinks that EDH is his finest artistic creation, and his toxic playgroup managing the list.

>>47790887
If you are playing EDH with friends, your group has absolute control over the banlist.

>>47790005
how many basics are you running? I sure as hell hope it is more than 3.

>>47790961
Right, but what about when I'm playing EDH with people online?

Sheldon tells me I'm playing EDH wrong because i'm not committed to always playing the format in an insular and closed off from the world group. I think sheldon needs to get a lobotomy, as does anyone who shares that opinion.

EDH needs a good banlist because not all games are among long time friends.

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>tfw you group only knows about the EDH format and not the banlist
One guy runs G-Daddy as the general of his mono-black deck and it's fun as fuck to go against

>>47790961
Shame most people take the RC statements as gospel then isn't it?

>RC get rid of tuck because "muh fee fees"
>Playgroup think's keeping tuck is a good idea
>eventually one faggot starts spreading that we don't play with tuck
>now half the group claims we don't play with tuck whenever some one tries to tuck their commander
>all because one faggot can't deal with his commander going bye bye

Of course he's the guy playing stuff like Arcum Dagsson or suspiciously playing the same 5 cards in his Omnath deck each game with no variance on gameplay.

>>47788367
Yeah, but McDonalds isn't the only food source. McDonalds doesn't only make like eight hamburgers a day. McDonalds doesn't have a predatory second market.

>tfw duel commander banlist makes sense and the format is a fun way to play some sweaty games with your buddies.

Only banning I've ever disagreed with was Yisan, in my eyes banning Cradle alone should've been enough to keep the wanderer bard in check or at least left it until the next update to ban him if he was still too good even without cradle.

As it is a mono green deck is still the best aggro deck in the format and there doesn't seem to be any major boogeymen in the format now.

>>47788367
>But that means you only have access to what's in your budget.

Actually, as a factual matter, I have access to everything, despite being able to pay for zero cards in real life.

I play on cockatrice though, and well made proxies are accepted by my group.

Just thought I'd correct your factual mistake.

>>47791017
Part of the issue is that Commander is serving many masters right now. Changing anything now would require a compromise to be made somewhere.

A really good example is the Sol Ring dilemma. It's clearly the strongest card in the format, and everybody has it. It's the best choice for your first card in 100% of all possible decks.

On one hand, everybody has sol ring. It's an equalizer and pillar of the format.

On the other hand, It makes the maximum power of a player's potential openings much higher. It has the potential to clearly make one player begin the game with a dominating advantage.

On the gripping hand, it's the value of this mana is so volatile in a multiplayer game. Politics can easily sap much of the tempo gained by a Sol Ring.

In the lap, politics will not matter if the player with Sol Ring obtains a combo or win condition that is too big to be answered effectively in the early game. The only thing we can do about that is ban the combo piece or ban the ring.

One of these things has to compromise, and everybody is going to have a different opinion on what that thing is.

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>wizards prints Sol ring in every precon
>bans it
wew lads

>mfw I was the guy commenting on the problems with painter servant vs sol ring and someone else took the reins for me and people think its me being an autistic faggot

I wonder how these threads get along, it looks like bitching about iona and proxies as far as I can see.

>>47791363
Wouldn't be the first time a precon card is banned, and it won't be the last.

>>47791363
?
Sol Ring isn't banned?

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>>47791432
>precon card in commander was banned

I don't know the precon lists well, which card are you talking about?

>>47791497
Trade secrets, it got banned for basically making 2 players unstoppable because they could just draw through most of their decks.

But of course the same shit comes up whenever there is more than one consecrated sphinx on the board but that card is still legal.

>>47791527
Interesting. I can see how it would be banned but outside of a storm deck it seems useless I'm casual so this is why I don't see the bullshit in some cards

>>47788375
He's disgustingly ridiculous, but you *have* to go wide with him. I usually use him in Radha with haste effects and recursion to get him back, or tooth and nail him out alongside a haste source and Craterhoof for double hoofin'.

>>47788693
Casuals love their shitty mill cards

Do Urborg, Kormus Bell and Humility work together the way I think they do?

>>47791688
Urbog turns all lands into swamp in addition to their other types, kormus bell turns all swamps in 1/1 creatures. Yes those work and humility acts as a replacement effect to kormus turning all those creatures into normal 1/1

>>47789086
If your playgroup/you run lots of fetchlands it's pretty good

>>47791595
In ye old days, every deck would run reliquary tower. Opponents would cast it on the person they thought least likely to beat them, and then draw their entire decks minus a few cards, practically ensuring they got reliquary tower.

They would then lock everyone else out of the game.

But even if reliquary tower wasn't a thing, a spell that reads 2 players get to draw their decks would be banworthy.

>>47791527
The double Consecrated Sphinx scenario requires 2 players to both stick a 6 cmc creature on the board and no one having a way to deal with them. Trade Secrets is 3 mana sorcery (a card type that 4/5 colors can't deal with) and the caster could play kingmaker with who they target.
TL;DR: Trade Secrets is WAY more busted than Sphinx.

>>47791810
It's also nice as incidental gravehate. Someone casts a lot of instants and sorceries that younare worried about them getting back with YawgWill/Past in Flames, just eat them and ping your opponents. Black player has a fatty innthe yard? Eat it.

>>47791847
>draw until they hit reliquary tower

People seriously did this? I would've figured it was to get some kind of combo off which it probably was used for as well

>>47791957
In my experience, it was a real test of casualness. If you played it in a cutthroat game (which you might as well, it takes your odds of winning from 25% to 50%), you'd go for the combo piece and anti-disruption.

If you're casual, you'd stop as soon as you hit reliquary tower, or a similar effect that you can play on your turn.

If you're Sheldon, you stop as soon as you hit Mardu Woe Reaper

>>47790815
Modern is ruined by Wizards' micromanagement of the banlist due to their particular vision of the format, much like Sheldon does with EDH. Wizards' management of Legacy amd Vintage, which is pretty much hands-off unless something is clearly breaking the format, is more what EDH needs.

>>47791910
>>47791910
>trade secrets is way more busted than consecrated sphinx

Hello Sheldon, thought about fucking off from this format so people who haven't been lobotomised can run it?

>>47788280
Best card with Zurgo is Assault Suit. Nothing more satisfying then sitting there and watching your opponents kill each other with your commander. Plus he retains his indestructibility permanently so long as you're passing it around each turn.

Other notables are Tenza, Godo's Maul for the trample and cheap equip cost and Soulscour because retain all your equipment and destroy all their lands.

>>47792230
I'm not a fan of assault suit.

>okay bob, it's your turn, you get to play with zurgo now.
>thanks joe! During my main phase I cast naturalize on assault suit!

>>47792302
oh nevermind. RTFC.

>>47792315
What do you mean? If you destroy Assault Suit does the creature go back to its owner?

>>47792351
at end of turn.

>>47792351
no they get the creature until end of turn

>>47792210
Consecrated Sphinx requires 6 mana and every deck should have some answers to creatures. Consecrated Sphinx also effectively makes 1 player the Archenemy until it is killed. Trade Secrets is 3 mana and blue is the only color with ways to answer it. Trade secrets also turns the game from a 4 player into a 2 player game. Clearly you have never played against Trade Secrets, Trade Secrets is fucking busted as all hell.

>>47792736

White can answer it with spirit of the labyrinth, but yeah I agree, the main diff is that with trade secrets and Connie cloning is that as soon as trade secrets resolves, both players pick up their decks, whereas you have a little bit of time to find removal for Connie before people clone it

Also there's the fact that the only people drawing that many cards are the Connie owner and the person who played the clone, so they both "deserve" to draw their library, whereas the person who plays trade secrets just gets to King make and cut the rest of the players out of the game on a whim

>>47792736
Consecrated sphinx is almost as polarizing as Prime time was, yet some how it's managed to avoid being banned for years.

Trade secrets was busted when everyone played it like a spike, Consecrated sphinx is busted in pretty much every meta and playstyle when given any room at all.

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>mfw unblockable thada adel

Why did I never think of this before?

>>47792844

I stopped running Thadda because of time reasons, which turned into extra hate.

>>47792823

You can learn a lot about the ban list just by going to starcity and reading up on Sheldon's deck lists. Is consecrated sphinx used in his playgroup? If not, it's invisible to him. This is the danger of having a clique of five old men manage a format.

>>47792888
Sheldon actually plays consecrated sphinx in his decks, probably why it's not banned.

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>mfw the EMA mana crypt is dropping in price
Eta 3 weeks till sheldor ebays his stockpile of mana crypt promos and judges then bans the card in the name of fairness

>>47792888
Nah, he knows about it, he's just a huge fag for blue.

>>47792918

Good. It makes T3 Wanderer much harder.

>>47792873
I know it will probably get hate but my meta is a hardcore artifact daretti player and sen triplets artifact combo. Daretti player blows his load way too early because he honestly has shitty threat assessment he thought a hangarback walker with 1 counter more scary than a vampire nighthawk equipped with blade of the bloodchief + sword of vengeance

>>47793114

That's his fault, then. I would just use Thadda think snipe their combo pieces into exile, at least at first. The other players shouldn't hate you when you exile something like Mindslaver without the ability to cast it. Don't start off T3 by stealing Sol Rings and shit. That's a good way to die.

>>47792844
My group doesn't run rocks ;__;

>>47792844
Nigga what the fuck do you think Quicksilver Fountain is for

>>47793313
I don't plan on stealing rocks. I want to steal [spoiling] unwinding clock and leave it in exile[/spoiler] without that card his deck kneels to anything

>>47792918
Something odd is going on with that card. The normal price is dropping like a rock, the foil dropped over the weekend then remained stagnant. Meanwhile the Judge foil dropped $25 and then went back up to $200 after Saturday.

>>47793448
mana crypt's supply was almost nonexistent. This is the first time its ever seen an actual printing.

>>47790227
>prophet of kruphix is still banned
>seedborn muse is still unbanned
>memes

>>47793701

Well there's a big difference

>>47790005
Needs off-color fetchlands. In Esper you should be playing every fetch but Wooded Foothills.

>>47793403

That's how you gotta do it. The last Thada I ran was very control heavy with some Blue Moon effects like Quicksilver Fountain and prowl effects like Notorious Throng. I would exile fat artifacts like Clock, Slaver, Deathmantle, Altars, ect, protect Thada, and then start hitting hard with Notorious Throng as soon as I got a way to recur it.

Here's a fun win:
>Swing with Thada wearing Cloak and Dagger
>Steal Konda's Banner
>Cast Throng and Banner
>4 1/1s and an extra Turn
>Equip Fairy with Banner
>Swing with 4 3/3s and a 5/3 Thada
>Steal Ring and cast
>Call to Mind Throng
>Cast Throng
>17 3/3s and an extra turn

Killed 2 players and the 3rd wasn't exactly in a position to stop me even though I did lose my Banner after the one guy died. There were still 21 fairies and a 4/2 unblockable shroud commander.

>>47793978
Would be awesome but you cant equip the banner to a non legendary creature (farie token) but congrats on your win and opponents not knowing their cards

>>47794472
lol rekt.

Time and time again /tg/ proves it's either full of shit or bad at magic.

>>47791032
>It's a good commander!

>>47794472
>>47794580

Well, shit. No one caught it. I could have put it on Thada with minimal effort, though. Would have definitely affected the game, but I think I still would've had it. I had a Snappy in hand with a Mystical in the GY, so I could've cast it at least one more time.

>>47790227
yeah I fucking see those reflections, cunt.

Who's a good commander choice for extending a giant middle finger to a Turn Creatures Sideways meta?

>>47795186
Kuon, Ogre Ascendant

>>47795186
Gwafa Hazid?

>>47795124
Also cant equip creatures with shroud (cant be the target of spells or abilities) so you need the banner on first i guess it mighy work then

>>47795201
Tried him, very easy to kill and then the counters do nothing

>>47795199
He looks neat, might take some time to get online because my group is also full of durdling

>>47795186
Hokori

Lock them out

>>47795219
No shit. The fairies are Rogues. Throw it on them when they come out for free. I didn't really need the CnD on Thada at that point anyway.

>>47786528
hit me and take my birthing pod? and thats it?

I need a cephelid constable and Sphinx's ambassador for Shu Yun stat!

>>47788375
He's definitely a house in Marchesa, if you can get some extra attack steps or turns he gets really ridiculous.

Now that the tuck rule has been changed, and enough time has passed to see it implemented in playgroups, I want to ask:

>Do you play with an enclosed playgroup or at an LGS?
>Does your playgroup use the tuck rule?
>If not, why?
>Have the decks in your meta changed in any major capacity because of the rule?
>Do you agree with what your playgroup has decided?

This is not an attempt to start a shitstorm. I'm genuinely curious what people think, and also whether/how their setting affects the decision.

If you could only use cards from the newest commander, OGW and SOI, what would your win con be for RU and RG?

>>47795501

mizzix's mastery is the most powerful card printed in those sets, but at the same time, im not sure you can even support it with the garbage in those sets

maybe newlamog

>>47795501
Tokens from Omnath.

>>47795501
RU - brain in a jar/ rise from the tides / part the waterveil
RG - mina and denn /ulvenwald hydra /oran rief hydra/ sword of the animist

>>47795400
I play at an LGS, but it's a lot of the same people who show up for each "Fellowship" they call it. A once a month thing where people vote on the best decks.
We've adapted to the no-tuck rule now.
It's made things harder to deal with, certainly. I don't think it's necessarily a bad change. I don't really play commanders that are super integral to my wincons, so the tuck rule never bothered me too much.

>>47795400
>Where do you play?
I play at my LGS. Occasionally I'll play with one friend over at his place, but primarily it's at the store.
>Do you use the tuck rule?
I do not, but my playgroup does. That's to say that when I chaos warp my opponent's commander, I wholly expect them to put it into the command zone. But if someone tries to tuck my commander and I don't have an answer, into the deck it goes.
>If not, why?
I firmly believe that the rules committee is fucking retarded, so I won't play with rules changes that aren't based on data but are based on feel-bads. I think that standing up for what you think is right is a good thing.
>Deck changes?
My decks haven't changed at all because of it. When people tuck my commander when they expect it to go to the command zone and I tell them that I don't agree with the rules committee or how they run, I follow that up by saying "but I don't expect you to play the same way. I just don't agree with them." Interestingly though, I find that most of the time, the next occurrence of tuck is met with them tucking their commander. I almost always see a look of surprise come to their faces when they realize that you don't have to agree with the rules, and as long as you don't force others to play the way you do, that's ok. I don't make them tuck their commanders, but they tend to do it because they realize that some people don't have faith in the rules committee. Other peoples' decks haven't really changed much either. Maybe a few tuck cards came out, but I still see a fair number of them.
>Do I agree with my group?
No, but once they realize how I play, a good amount of the time, they come to agree with me.

>>47795400
its hard to call who i play with a group, because i mostly play with one other guy, sometimes we get a third or fourth guy but work schedules are rough to work around sometimes

once tuck went away, we embraced that shit (even though i still run chaos warp because winning out of literally nowhere is fun)

i think the guy i play with most took spell crumple out of his deck but didn't really have anything else that took advantage of it

tuck was never really a thing with my group so we just kind of rolled with it, again, aside from a spell crumple and a chaos warp, we didn't really run anything that actually would shuffle a commander into a deck

>>47795521
>Omnath
>Gatewatch

K

>>47795520
Newlamog is also BFZ
Mizzix Nastier for sure a big one.

>>47795526

Brain in a jar and Mizzix mastery would be neat with Jori-En. Cantrips forn days into something big.

Mina and Denn are the only choice, but they're good. A lot of what you said is not OGW, SOI, or CMM15, though.

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What that ass do senpai

I post this in every thread ayy lmao

>>47795400
Just me and like one or two friends. It's a small meta, but we make up for it by being completely cool with whatever one of us wants to try, so it's never stagnate. We've come up with a few interesting gametypes on accident by just fooling around, but they're usually wildly inconsistent and unbalanced.
We use standard rules, that includes the new tuck ruling. That's the way we've always done it, GOML Sheldon. The only difference is that we ignore the banlist in favor of our own and are occasionally okay with planeswalker and non legendary commanders in some games. We prevent abuse by imposing the restriction that the deck be built around a primary, legal commander and that the deck contains the subordinate commander within. For instance, when we're doing a PW commander game Zegana switches place with Kiora in the sea monster deck.
Another thing we've tried is every player starts with their Sol Ring already out. Those games get stupid.

>>47795400

>>Do you play with an enclosed playgroup or at an LGS?
Enclosed group, but open to outsiders.

>>Does your playgroup use the tuck rule?
We didn't, then we did

>>If not, why?
We didn't because IT'S STUPID! I'M DOING IT ANYWAY! REASONS!!!!!!!! One guy refused to tuck, though and eventually everyone caved.

>>Have the decks in your meta changed in any major capacity because of the rule?
Literally nothing has changed. I had already ditched most of my tuck spells because they never mattered. Half the time, a normal counter would have been better.

As for the rest of the group, when they refused to change the tuck rule, I counted how many times it mattered. One time. Literally once. The guy was strongly against the change, said we're not using it before the game, walked right into a Hallowed Burial, and did nothing for 7 more turns.


>>Do you agree with what your playgroup has decided?
It didn't make much difference, but I support no tuck. In fact, since the switch, I've seen better plays because people used to hold Hinder and shit for commanders for the sake of hitting commanders. In doing so, they let other more important shit fly.

>>47795934
I'm curious what those other game types you've made up are.

>>47795526
I'm still of the opinion ru brains rise is a hidden gem in standard. I've just been to lazy to play test it.

>>47796078
One game we each start with a noncreature permanent of our choice.
I've been brainstorming a game where start with a random world enchant that acts like an emblem of sorts, it can't be destroyed or interacted with so you have to play around it. Someone here called it Poor Man's Planechase I think.
We are also okay with custom cards, but sadly no one likes them as much as me. Too easy to get salty when someone destroys you with their own Mary Sue OC donut, so I usually build "balanced" ones for other people and decks I don't personally play.
That's all I can really remember. It's a lot of fun having a relaxed atmosphere where you can try stupid stuff out just to see.

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just how low do you guys think jace the wallet sculptor will bottom out at? Im considering picking one up for my control decks now that they are starting to brush the high $50s

>>47796445
Do it, if it ends up going lower it shouldn't matter to you because you have one and you're happy with it. There's always the option of buying more of them if they go even lower.

I plan on picking up one and a dack fayden for my collection, plus I need them if I build Surrak twin for 1 vs 1.

>>47796078
Not him, but I'm working on a drinking game for my 21st birthday. It uses a "deck" of 60 instants and sorceries; 10 of each color, and 1 of each double color combo. On each players upkeep you reveal the top card of the deck. Each player can take a drink, and each player who takes a drink may copy the spell. It was a lot of fun to make, and challenging to balance, (1 free lightning bolt each may not seem too powerful, until you think about 4 players teaming up to kill one guy out of fucking nowhere) I'm just hoping it's as much fun to play as it was to make. It's also important to remember that the spell is copied not cast, especially in my meta since I play zada, and my cousin has a mizzix storm deck.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dragon-portal/

First EDH deck. Played it a few times so far and having tons of fun with it. This format is so much better than standard.

>>47796445
if its anything like previous reprints the price reductions usually bottom out after like a month and then stabilize

>>47796550
>Fellow Zirilan-bro
My GUY, welcome to the party

I recommend Thundermaw Hellfire to tap down flying defenders, Sneak Attack and Flameshadow Conjuring, and the MVP Equipment, Illusionist's Bracers

>>47796653
Sweet, thanks for the tips.

Yeah, Zirilan is fun as fuck. So much utility and synergy in this deck. I've only played with it in about ten games so far and I'm still finding new and fun combos. Love how versatile it is.

>>47787532
fuck you elitist fag. This is the only game you play in a comic book store that has such a steep point of entry. It's people like you that probably play standard and modern and sneer at anybody who doesn't have an endless supply of neetbux to throw at a casual hobby.

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>>47788745
>damage control
I hope the chinese proxies that're only getting better make all these cardboard bits worth nothing, just so people like you see all your investments dry up

>>47796717
>>47796795
Holy fuck do you have nothing better to do than start shit? Fuck off proxy fags

>>47795400
>Where do you play
With my group
>Does your playgroup use the tuck rule
No except one guy who got pissy only because his deck was centered around the tuck rule
>If not, why?
Do we really need a reason?
>Have the decks in your meta changed in any major capacity because of the rule
No
>Do you agree with what your playgroup has decided
I hate 5 of the 9 people in my playgroup I don't give a fuck about their decisions.

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>people are actually arguing against proxies, in casual play no less
There is no reason not to use them. artificial scarcity, monopolies, and a cuttthroat middle man are inherently heavily anticonsumer so any misguided sense of honor for only using real cards is thrown out the window. Me and my playgroup use lots of proxies and I literally see zero downside to it. I can understand why official competitive events dont allow them but for just casual FNM I dont understand why anyone would give a fuck

>>47796717
tabletops are just as expensive if not more so in most situations but proxies are rampant there too, and for good reason. The prices are just absolutely fucking bonkers to get a real developed set going to the point where new players have very little incentive to get started

>>47796959
To make it somewhat explainable, does your deck truly need that sensei's divining top or that consecrated sphinx? If your meta is casual you look like a shit for proxying "high powered" cards just for the sake of winning. In a more competitive meta proxying when you're a poorfag would make somewhat more sense but it depends if your group is ok with it most of the problem with proxying is people getting fakes of the $10+ cards not counting the dual lands I still personally think if you proxy you're a colossal faggot and nothing will change my mind about that but if your group is ok with it then that's on you.

>>47797145
This pretty much sums up everything I think about proxies

>finally finish my gitrog deck
> going through the forty land I'm going to add because the fucking frog eats lands by the truck load
> find two more must haves in my deck just chilling in the land pile
FUCK. any gitrog players out there that can say 38 is fine for lands? I'm short on mana rocks but I've got some mana dorks and a bit of land recursion but I'm still a little worried on my manabase if the frog starts eating more than he's putting out.

>>47797227
I run 38 in my pepe and it's pretty consistent. Pepe is just the engine I use for draw/reanimation though so the wincons arent entirely based on the frog

>>47797274
Good point. I guess I don't need gitgud out at all times. I'll go with the 38 and see how it goes from there. He's certainly not my win con in this deck

>>47797145
The way my group sees it is that over time everyone is going to have the most fun when playing on an even field. even in a format like EDH the presence of dual lands, onslaught/zendikar fetch lands, mana crypt, crucible of worlds, and shit like stupid expensive staples that have been out of print for a decade make games of optimized vs just simply good decks absolute blowouts. There is no fucking reason that the landbase for a deck in a non competitive environment should cost hundreds of dollars nor should you be forced to hunt down a $300 card from the last millennium that was only printed once to be able to have fun with it. If wizards wasnt such a consumer unfriendly company I would probably feel differently but this is a case where "piracy" is completely justified

>>47797327
What point are you trying to make? That you all agreed to not spend $500 on a manabase so that evens it out? Or are you all proxying a manabase to even it out, especially when running multiple decks. I get that having an optimized manabase can be more fun since games move quicker (minus the whole fetching thing). But in my playgroup part of the fun is showing off/playing some new fatty that you just traded for. It is called a TCG after all.

>>47797327
My problem with proxies has already been mentioned in this thread, it's the unneeded power growth of the group in a format not really designed around maximum deck efficiency.

Sure, if some guy is consistently bringing 2000 dollar decks, I see the problem. But the real problem is you fucking pussies should be telling that guy to drop his power level down to where the groups at instead of pandering to daddy deep pockets level. Nothing more asinine than some asshole that gets his rocks off beating a ford pinto in his Porsche.

But whatever, go back to arguing about card board in a casual format designed around the players agreeing how they want the game to be played before it even starts and then jamming stupid shit in that shouldn't even be required in the first place.

>>47797327
Then play with your fucking proxies with your group. I don't know why you had to reply to me, nothing had to be said.

Hey guys I am revamping my G/W enchantments deck. I am switching from Krond to Sigarda as my commander since hexproof is superior. Right now I run good auras, control enchants (like ghostly prison and blind obedience) and card draw. Any spicy tech I am missing out on? Is solitary confinement really worth running when I only have a few card draw outlets?

>>47797145
I really like the social pressure that comes from playing at an LGS. I don't want to play with proxies, and not many people I know show up to "Commander Night" with proxies because they realize it would be uncouth. It's not a sanctioned thing or anything, and there's no prize pool or tournament structure, but if there are going to be strangers there that you're going to play with, proxies are going to make you look like an ass.

>>47797498
I would say probably not about the solitary confinement. you need to reliably be able to not fuck yourself when you're playing that card.

>>47797227
38 lands is fine, if you were to go 40 you might risk getting flooded, gitrog is a solid creature by himself which is why I use him in my mimeoplasm deck, sacrificing lands to draw extra cards is worth especially if you have crucible of worlds or drownyard temple as the sac outlet.

>>47797407
>what point are you trying to make?
that getting mad over fake cards in a non competitive setting in a game that actively fucks over its players at every opportunity is stupid

>>47797418
nobody at my shop is running around with (real) mana drains in their edh decks. we all just came to an understanding that playing optimized decks is fun and an anticonsumer company and cutthroat third parties are not worth bending over backwards for

>>47797434
you gave your opinion to my post. Why do you get pissy when I do the same?

>>47797499
The problem with that is actual good proxies are indistinguishable from the real thing.

So the only one that looks like an ass are the people with egg on their face when they get blown the fuck out by people with proxied manabases at the FNM winning each week and getting prizes.

And it's impossible to prove.

>We think you're using proxies, we need to rip your card in half to check

Yeah nah

>>47797532
Any aura suggestions? I run a decent amount of umbras, rancor, ancestral mask, ethereal armor, celestial mantle.
>inb4 play Uril
My buddy plays him and G/W has nostalgic value

>>47797558
>Why do you get pissy when I do the same?

Because your answer is the obvious statement for any proxyfag. If you're group let's you proxy then fucking proxy, now fuck off or contribute something meaningful to the thread

>>47797558
>nice 00:00:00
How does wizards actively fuck over the players on a regular basis?
Sure poor decisions are made,especially in EDH, but I don't feel there is some conniving cunt in the background saying "lets see what we can get away with." It is run by humans after all.
The game is the longest running TCG/CCG with the largest playerbase, they must be doing something right.

>>47797621
No one can tell I use proxies, so I don't need permission from any group to play them. I play them at FNM. I play them at tournaments. I play them at casual.

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>>47797621
while your answer is the obvious statement for any butthurt beta shill who decides to police fun and says you should aribrary spend hundreds of dollars on a single piece of cardboard. You need to make your tears less delicious if you are going to post all offended like that

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>>47797643
Good for you

>>47797631
>How does wizards actively fuck over the players on a regular basis?
artificial scarcity whilst they (obviously) have a monopoly on the game. As of now a new player wanting to get into competitive play for any format will spend several hundred dollars simply because they decided not to print enough of the good cards to go around. let the collectible element go towards foils, rare tokens, etc. Locking so much power behind an enormous pay wall is simply preventing your game from growing and only benefits those who are already heavily invested into the game

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Hey guys I just won my beerleague softball game using a corked bat. No one noticed since it looked and sounded the same but my game-tying homerun was the deciding factor. But fuck them why should I shell out $170 on a well-made aluminum bat from Dick's like the rest of the teams when I could just make my own?

Do most LGS have regular EDH nights? I've been checking out the schedules of the bigger ones around me and it seems like all they ever do is Standard and drafts. All my friends who play the format live across the country and I'm tired of playing on Skype all the time.

Live in LA btw.

>>47797768
My LGS doesn't have specific EDH nights, but usually I can find a game before/after Vintage/Legacy nights, Legacy and Vintage players seem to tend to enjoy EDH

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>>47797737
>wizards makes money off the secondary market
I get they make money off the Master's sets but come on now, get your head out of your ass. These aren't beanie babies.

>>47797768
Ask them. LGSs attract players, ask them if there is a day EDH players show up. If not suggest they make one, I doubt they have a night M-Thurs that is booked with other stuff. If they hesitate explain that more players in the store almost always results in sales, if not they are a shitty store.

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>>47797761
a corked bat is not as effective as an aluminum bat

the aluminum bat I used is however just as effective as the $1,200 official MLB stamped aluminum bat made out of the same material as mine that the rec department are trying to force us to use. The highlight of the night was laughing at the cuckolds who I stomped while using my $5 walmart bat while they cried about how my bat wasnt "real" and that their stick of metal was more valid than my own for having an arbitrary stamp on it.

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>>47797835
I didn't know the MLB used aluminium bats
>he fell for the bait

>>47797761
>not getting a proxied ol faithful wood bat

I hope you didn't win by much

>>47797795
I didnt say that made money off the secondary market. I said they fuck over players by creating an artificial scarcity of strong cards. which they do.

>>47797835
That fucking webm makes me jump every time.

>>47797861
I didn't think trees grew near Old Faithful, with the whole superheated water and whatnot. I bet the grain is amazing.

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>>47797895
So not fucking over the players who have been playing for years is a bad thing? Like it or not collectors and longtime players are an important part of wizard's business strategy.

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>>47797856
you are correct that they dont. they are simply the only baseball organization I am aware of and using them as an arbitrary name for a product being expensive made sense for the comparison.

Im just over here laughing at people getting mad over my cardboard being any less real because theirs has wotc's name on it

>>47797941
>So not fucking over the players who have been playing for years is a bad thing?
it all started off with those players being fucked over. The only reason their collections are worth so much is because they intentionally printed so few of those cards. They started from the beginning printing cards as if its strictly a collectible card game instead of a competitive card game and as a result it led to the game being inordinately expensive for the average player who wants to compete. While they keep the people who have bought into the scene for so long happy they are continuing to put a wall up for new players to join the game.

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>>47790451
>>lack's critical thinking skills
fuck off, use a real argument
I'm not saying ignore your commander, otherwise I'd say don't include lifegain at all. I'm saying, when deckbuilding, assume the worst is happening and ask how this card will perform then. Inevitably, there is going to be a situation you can conjure up from magical christmasland that is unstoppable, but i'm talking realistic problems like Elesh Norn being out, being hit by Stigma Lasher, Sulfuric Vortex is out, etc. (all of which see play in my playgroup for various reasons, reasonable to assume at least one or two pop up elsewhere) and what that card does when that happens.
>>47790337
Regardless of how you feel about basalt monolith, the fact remains that pristine talisman is a rock that gives you one mana at the cost of three, which puts it on the same turn count as when you can reasonably assume your first swing of Karlov will be. The benefit is one pump, so two counters, over protection for the general for that critical turn 3-4. If you're voltroning without reliable haste, losing a turn or two to a target kill is huge. Isamaru is only worth even considering as a general at all simply because of how fast he can land, and he's the same P/T as Karlov to start with. Chromatic Lantern fixes your mana issues for all color-related issues and compromises for a cheaper/sub-standard mana base. Pristine talisman, in an ideal situation, pumps your general for 2/2 and gains one life and nets you one colorless, which your general can't use. If you want it in, go for it, but with the huge variety of viable lifegain cards with other uses, this one just doesn't make the cut for me.

Pic Related: the card I meant, not trading post, forgot the name of the goat land and trading post often get's confused for me due to the goat tokens.

>>47797997
thats pretty silly, i know of no one who wants to vintage or legacy that hasnt already been playing the game for 10 plus odd years. new players arent getting into it for playing serious, or at tournaments

>>47797941
>So not fucking over the players who have been playing for years is a bad thing?
it is when they are simultaneously fucking over every other person by keeping the investments of people who spent thousands on cardboard safe

>>47790616
This anon's views of pristine are correct. If you don't need the fix and reliably have the colors you need when it would ideally come out, it's worth the include.

>>47798021
>i know of no one who wants to vintage or legacy that hasnt already been playing the game for 10 plus odd years
do you know why thats the case? any real deck in legacy can run a couple thousand dollars while a rela vintage deck is so expensive that even tournaments allow proxies for the power 9. I for one would fucking love to get into legacy; the idea of playing UW miracles fascinates me and I would greatly enjoy getting into serious competitive magic if it was available to me. The only thing preventing me here is the $1500 pricewall because they decided to only print a handful of dual lands.

>>47797944
as this anon said
>>47797145

If your playgroup is fine with it whatever. But when you try to make the best possible deck using proxies just so you can win that defeats the purpose of the format. In my opinion it was meant to play cards that you liked that would never see play in a 60 card format. I.E. playing what you have in your collection. As soon as you optimize to use cards outside of your collection solely to win, that seems in my opinion contrary to the basis of EDH.