Are Jedis Paladins?

>>47714586
From a certain point of view.

>>47714586
They're monks.

>>47714586
They're the setting's equivalent.

>>47714753
Also true.

>>47714586
more or less. they also bear some resemblance to monks.

there was an RPG called "Paladin" for playing characters in this mold. i don't know if it was any good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin_(role-playing_game)

>>47714586
No, they're assholes.

>>47714586
Depends on the Jedi in question.
There's actually a surprising degree of variation over the history of the Order and between individuals.
Back in the days of Nomi Sunrider and Ulic Qel-Droma, they were VERY Paladin-like, pretty much being samurai wizard knights errant.
During the Prequel era, they became rather self-absorbed and ivory tower in their dogmatism, being more like Monks who happened to carry badass laser swords.
The New Jedi order under Grand Master Skywalker could all fall into a FUCKLOAD of different classes, due to having a wide range of skillsets, as most of Luke's early pupils were adults with lives before coming to study at the Praxeum on Yavin IV. Everything from Fighter Aces (Keyan Farlander and Corran horn), to a geomancer (Gantoris), a Commando (Kyle Katarn), one of the Emperor's personal assassins/spies (Mara Jade), a former mining slave (Kyp Duron), a hermit who lived alone so he wouldn't have to hear everyones thoughts (Streen), and so on.
>>47714783
Go home Traviss, nobody likes you.

File: luke.jpg (85KB, 694x520px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 694x520px

WAH muh babythiefs
muh from my viewpoint

File: darths0004.jpg (155KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 600x800px

>>47714586
Monks I'd say, when we see Jedi act you could easily categorise them as Paladins because the jedi are good people and the fight the bad people and help the week. But they don't do it as some calling from a higher power, but because they're a part of that higher power.

>>47714729
And they are good friends

Jedis don't really have a code that applies to everyone, besides their own little clique of space wizards.
No jedi falls for being a dick to people or violating laws. They just fall when using Red Magic instead of Blue Magic.

So no, they're marital-wizards who are employed as ineffectual cops, and half-ass fortune tellers. Also, they kidnap and brainwash children into child soldiers.

>>47714586

Are feet shoes?

>>47714586
They're paladins with the fluff of Monks, and when they fall they instantly convert all their Paladin levels to Blackguard. Force Lightning is just a ranged variant of Inflict Wounds.

>>47714830
The Prequel era Jedi were basically so afraid of falling to the Dark Side that they did their DAMNDEST to remove themselves from having to make shaky moral choices anymore.
They'd basically decided that they themselves were the source of the problem and so by limiting their numbers, making their order more exclusive and centrally controlled, and basically removing themselves from being attached too tightly they could prevent themselves from falling and the Sith from showing up yet again.

Technically the plan worked; Dark Jedi were so rarely encountered in the Prequel era and the millenia before it that most Jedi didn't even need to learn how to fight against lightsabers anymore.
Unfortunately the key point of the plan, that they would intentionally limit and control themselves so the Sith would never come back relied on the Sith ACTUALLY being gone.

I thought they were some amalgam of monks and Meiji era space samurai

>>47714586
Yes. Jedi knights are space knights. Don't let the prequels tell you otherwise.

>>47714586
Depends whether they specialize on only light saber, only force or both.

>>47714586
>Lawful Stupid
Yep, they're Paladins.

File: 21424545451581.png (2MB, 672x1864px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 672x1864px

Most jedi act pretty retarded.

I prefer ones who know the limitations of both the good side but knows to inherently fear the dark side.

>>47714586
Yeah.
Also PsyWars, Monks and even Magi/Duskblades/Spellswords
It seems they wouldn't jive with straight martial types since their mystical powers are big part of their style.
HOWEVER if you like ancient myths and hero archetypes you would notice that lots of warrior types are also mystically empowered.

I mean, I don't think I have to say D&D classes were designed for D&D by some people with their own mind for particular paradigms, Even then in the early days these were meant more for utility and personal taste and weren't taken hugely seriously. Arneson was a fucking mary-sue faggot that let people multiclass, liked story games and didn't believe in the monster manual, totally against the tone of true D&D! And we all know that these classes vary rarely capture any specific example of their inspiration accurately.

Then again, classes are a lot like alignment: Poor as complete representations of reality and fiction but good as fodder for discussion about a particular perception. A thing doesn't have to be 100% correct to be fun to talk about after all.

>>47716170

Knight doesn't automatically mean Paladin.

I'd say they're Eldritch Knight archetype Fighters who adhere to a philosophy which tells them not to abuse their powers.

Good and Evil don't apply to the Force. The dark side is just being an asshole. It sucks so many EU writers didn't clue in on this and treated it like D&D magic

File: 1460517609708.png (1MB, 505x1212px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 505x1212px

>>47716532
Anon you forgot the rest

>>47714586
No, because they can only "fall" by making bad choices and giving in to their dark emotions (as opposed to "TROLOLO the evil lich was hiding an invisible baby in his ribcage U FALL!!") and they don't lose their powers by doing so.

File: 1376895355988.jpg (77KB, 650x443px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 650x443px

Anyone else stopped giving a shit about mainline star wars after seing that it's going the same way as the marvel cinematic universe?

I only care about spin offs with no relation to the movies now. Like the old republic setting.

>>47716603
>>47716621
>>47716639


Fucking Katarn the best character in Star Wars

>>47716554
>Even then in the early days these were meant more for utility and personal taste and weren't taken hugely seriously.

Classes were not as bloated in D&D back then. They were basically a bunch of saving throws, HP and attack bonus fitting an archetype (with spells for spell casters). D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder are to blame for the overbloated classes trying to do everything at the same time with different subclass (!) progression.

Classes should not be taken seriously, because in old school D&D characters were not taken seriously. Most characters would die pretty quickly. Power creeping was less of a problem and the system was far more rule-light than anything ever done since.

If you want to feel that old school feeling, play some ACKS. Best old-school RPG ever created.

>>47714586
they're a cross between monks and paladins.

>>47716128
Well despite the little scene with anakin killing jedi kids, it wasn't "the sith" that destroyed the jedi order.
It was the republican army.
Even if the order had a larger contingent it wouldn't have mattered.
What MIGHT have mattered is if they had not distanced themselves from worldly affairs and paid attention to politics, at the risk of becoming the jedi inquisition.

Now that i think about it that could be an interesting setting, what if the jedi HAD become an inquisition, they could have stopped palpatine but be a problem on their own.

File: mfwpreciousbodilyfluids.jpg (48KB, 900x599px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 900x599px

>>47716712
Well if anything that would've given actual fodder for Paples and other politicians to go through with Order 66 in the first place. Granted if they were under constant mind scans by subtle Jedi lurking in the senate then they would just be arrested by the Jedi inquisition, but even then it would present a very negative public image.

>>47716130

This is the best way to describe them.

Initially, Jedi were mythologized samurai transplanted into a sci fi setting and given special super senses. Then Empire came out and Yoda showed as a more spiritual side to them.

Then the Prequels came out and George turned them into super heroes with spa e germs in their blood and a Lawful Stupid code of conduct

>>47716790

Well the jedi hardly care about image.
If the senate would oppose the removal of the influence of the dark side in their midst, they could feel justified in doing it by force, just like mace windu was fine with ignoring "procedure" against palpatine for practical reasons.
And then if people would oppose them for it, they might seize power, or just arrest all opposition in the senate, if only to prevent their own destruction and a sith victory. Which in turn generates more opposition. And so the spiral into repression begins.

>>47716712
> Palpatine got discovered by the jedi new inquisitive methods.
> Padme allies with an on the run Palpatine to put down the Jedi Theocracy.
> Separatist are the good guys.

>>47714729
From my point of view, they are anti paladins

>>47716712
A Sith arranged all of the circumstances leading up to their destruction.
The Senate might have been corrupted on it's own, but everything else was set up by Sidious through his complex political mechanations and working through proxies and agents.
If the Jedi paid more attention to politics then they might have been more successful at stemming the political corruption (though if no actual laws were broken they would be incapable of acting), but they didn't even know to LOOK for a Sith until Maul showed up. Despite one operating out of Coruscanr for quite some time.

At best they might have wondered why shit kept getting bad in the Senate, but Sheev was damn good at hiding his presence.

>>47717156
I already created a long fucking fiction in my head about this
No one cares but i wanna post it anyway
>anakin refuses to side with palpy
>he reveals his true power and escapes
>anakin and the remaing jedi masters on coruscant gather and pursue him again
>burst into the senate as he's making a speech about how the jedi are evil and tried to murder him
>they then do murder him in front of the whole senate
>Senators think palpatine was right after all
>the jedi are forced to close the senate and form a temporary government out of the jedi council
>everything goes batshit crazy, riots on the streets of coruscant
>with the order 66 never to be activated, the jedi use their position as commanders in the clone army to restore order
>padme dies of disgust because she thinks anakin is an usurper
>anakin after this becomes practically an emotionless shell, fully embracing the jedi philosophy of not letting emotion cloud his thoughts
>luke and leia are raised as normal padawans, they never see their dad after he becomes the leader of the jedi order following the "forced retirement" of all non-inteventionist jedi masters like yoda
>republic is still called as such but is effectively a theocracy, less oppressive than the empire but still repressive and impopular, since "how can the jedi, those emotionless freaks, understand the plight of the common man!"

>>47716672
2e had a pretty crazy number of additional classes and class options but it isn't widely considered over-bloated. I doubt the number of classes was the problem so much as the systems treatment of class and class abilities. 2e was still very much a toolset instead of a system, similar to previous additions. Classes, like anything else, were another thing to be added removed or modified.

3e shot itself in the foot by trying do what other modern systems did. It set everything in stone. Many classes had mechanics tied into none-essential rules and non-essential rules in general had a greater effect on the game. It went into too much detail to maintain the flexability that D&D was meant to have, it took authority of both fluff and mechanics away from players and gave it to the rules themselves.

>If you want to feel that old school feeling, play some ACKS. Best old-school RPG ever created.
Personally I'm not a fan. It's skill rules and the weird comprises it makes with race/class rubs me the wrong way. I prefer Barbarians of Lemuria, ASSoH or LotFP.

>>47715674
This is completely wrong. It was always the actions that determined which side you were on not the capabilities.

File: Dark_Side_Victory_by_JosephB222.jpg (137KB, 1280x1144px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 1280x1144px

>>47717382
Write it up with a lesbian romance running through it and I'll read it.

>>47717615
Her foot is literally inches from her lightsaber blade.

>>47715674
It's not using "red magic" that makes them fall, it's falling that enables them to use "red magic"
The ability to use "red magic" can be part of the temptation to fall though. (i wanna revive people like plagueis) (i wanna shoot lightning, shit's so cool)

>>47717707
Lesbian Darkside Bastila lives dangerously.

>>47717190
THEN YOU ARE FALLEN.

>>47714586
I read padawans. I need sleep

>>47717707
Space wizards have magic telepathy that allows them to tell which zippity zoops won't chop their limbs off.

Guess that includes sexy poses, too.

>>47714586
They're space samurai

File: Stormtrooper hay bale.jpg (254KB, 960x1280px) Image search: [Google]

254KB, 960x1280px

>>47716603
>can I use the force to scratch my butt
>fuck yeah I can

File: 125235236.jpg (401KB, 1500x1179px) Image search: [Google]

401KB, 1500x1179px

>>47716128
Ajunta Pall did nothing wrong.

Swordsages.
Or paladin/monk/wizard gestalt abominations.

>>47718357
>be Jedi council
>one of your members creates life
>'that's the dark side! you and your students are never allowed to do that and all of your teachings will be destroyed!'
>he and his followers declare war on you
>hundreds of Jedi die but you manage to beat them
>rather than imprison or kill them, you decide to EXILE THEM OUT OF REPUBLIC SPACE, WHERE YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING, LET ALONE CONTROL THEM
>they form an empire and invade the republic
>billions die
>they go on to terrorize the Republic for 5000 years
>but at least we didn't fall to the dark side!

>>47718582
Why is the Republic okay with the Jedi?

It's like they're holding the Republic hostage; they create the need for themselves.

Are the Jedi evil?

No. Paladins maintain their powers based on maintaining a moral and ethical code. A jedi is a member of an organization of what could best be describe as psions, that recruits and brainwashes other psions. Their powers are not tied to their ideology or guidelines, but pseudo-genetic predisposition. What's more, while paladins are generally associated with a god or gods (in most settings), the jedi are explicitly only allied with a vague notion of cosmic balance.

That being said, most jedi do act selflessly for good, most of the time, for this is the primary goal of their teachings and institution. This is ingrained in them to such a degree that force users who decide to act selfishly are both rejected from other jedi and typically themselves renounce allegiance. But ultimately all of this is rooted purely in culture and personality, not any metaphysical pressure.

>>47718661
Cause they need to make sure force sensitives don't go around on their own causing trouble
Also cause monks are less likely to stage a coup than a standing army.

>>47714729
/thread

>>47718751
But force sensitives aren't a threat without training.

It's only after they're trained that they cause trouble.

>>47718661

Force users don't just stop existing because you ban one organization. At at least during the old republic era, they were usually a decent way to keep people who were just randomly born with psychic super powers from becoming local tyrants.

File: jedi_by_flurrys_art-d9p6d9m.jpg (49KB, 682x1000px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 682x1000px

Could someone be a light-side user without being a Jedi? Without being compassionate even?

Just sitting all day meditating and becoming one with the Force?

>>47718779

Didn't watch the latest star wars yet huh?

>>47718800
Kylo was trained.

We don't know about Rey, but she seems to be trained.

>>47718839

I was talking about Rey

Also, she was dropped off on not-tatooine when she was like 7 so

File: jakku junk walkers.jpg (20KB, 657x251px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 657x251px

>>47718865
Fun fact, Jakku was originally going to be a bog.

Moreover, Rey was definitely the weakest part of that movie. Hopefully after she gets trained a little I'll be able to ignore the parts with her in the Force Awakens. Like how I can ignore the Midicholrians because no one ever fucking brings them up again.

>>47714586
>>47714830
>>47715535
How about clerics?

>>47718786
Of course. The Jedi Order is just an organization. Even if you aren't a member of it you can still be a chill dude.

>>47719098
works fine for video games, but Force Healing isn't a thing in most other genres of the setting.

>>47718582
>EXILE THEM OUT OF REPUBLIC SPACE, WHERE YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING, LET ALONE CONTROL THEM


I imagine the train of thought on that decision was more along the lines of go be heretics over there.

>>47718786
N-no!
You need the wisdom of the jedi masters!!
Submi- I mean join the jedi temple today! Otherwise you'll DEFINITELY fall to the dark side!

>>47719098
Blue lightsaber guardians - Paladins
Green lightsaber counselors - Clerics

>>47719694
>Blue lightsaber guardians
>Green lightsaber counselors
Fuck kotor for making up this stupid bullshit.

>>47716624yes i have

>>47719694
>>47719711

Reminder the only reason green lightsabers are a thing is because blue didn't show up properly when they rotoscoped it against Tattooine's blue sky in RotJ

>>47714586
No, they are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdjEPqWjTeU
>>47718786
BAD GOY

>>47714586
>>47714753
>>47714729
They're a kind of cheese.

>>47719711
Isn't flaunting frowned upon among jedi anyway?

>>47714586
space pladin/monk I'd say

>>47717156
Palpatine wouldn't be discovered, he was too good at hiding. Only one time did anybody get close to breaking his mask. Obi-Wan grabbed his arm, and described it as grabbing on to an oily black darkness, but as soon as Palpatine pulled away the sensation vanished, and he didn't get it when he next touched him.

>>47718779
Well the Sith were always just looming over the horizon and they ain't picky with recruits.

File: Paladin.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>47714780
Interestingly, the wiki article has a link to the full PDF at the bottom.

Also, here it is.

>>47714586
What's a paladin?

>>47722658
Literally, one of the knights working directly under Charlemagne before he became the first Holy Roman Emperor. Descriptively, someone like them or any of the Christian portrayal of the Knights of the Round Table--largely noble fighting men who ultimately serve divinity, though often indirectly.

File: ARAoPn1.jpg (33KB, 500x400px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 500x400px

>>47722658

>>47722658
Betrayal.

>>47722658
IRL - chosen knight of Charlemagne.
In D&D and pop culture - holy oath-bound warriors on eternal crusade to destroy evil.

>>47722722
They didn't call themselves paladins. We call them that.

>>47722964
I never said they did. I meant literally as in that's the ultimate origin of the term.

>>47722493
What can I say, I like seeing carefully crafted plans going down the drain.
Imagine Palpatine being tracked, having to dilapidate his admittedly considerable resources only to stay just a little ahead.
He would alternate between cruel traps for his pursuers, the unleashed violence of a cornered beast or maybe even sometime having to call for help.
I kind want to see a Palpatine in doubts, with only LIMITED POWER!

File: anakin.png (119KB, 255x196px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 255x196px

>>47714586
>Implying Jedi are good

File: it's over.jpg (168KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

168KB, 500x333px

>>47723234

>>47714586
They're Jedi.

>>47718731
>all of this is rooted purely in culture and personality, not any metaphysical pressure.
Given how fucked up people tend to get when they start using the dark side, I disagree.

>>47722760
Underrated post

File: I feel you.jpg (16KB, 500x461px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 500x461px

>>47716624
Yes

>>47723952

That's just EU nonsense written by people who missed the point, compounded by George throwing in a bunch of new ideas he never should have included on the first place.

Sheev was supposed to just be a creepy old wizard. Abusing the Force was probably what did that to him but it's never implied that's the norm.

At least until RotS came out. I still can't believe how much damage George did to his story.

>>47725214
No, Yoda literally says, in Empire,
"But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."
The Dark Side being super addictive and driving men mad is explicitly laid out in the original trilogy.

>>47718661
Because they need Force police. Without Jedi to watch over Force-sensitive populace, in generation or two there will be a new Siths, and galaxy will go to shit again.

>>47725273

I figured the guy was was just talking about the yellow eyes and grey skin they give dark siders in vidya and in the books.

But you're right, abuse of the Force is addictive and Yoda did make that clear.

reminder shit like Force Choke is not some ability out of a spellbook and requires X Dark Side points to use

>>47725560

I need to learn to fucking turn off Thread-specific names.

>>47716620

>George Lucas wrote paladins better than Gygax.

File: Fallen Paladin.jpg (71KB, 700x401px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 700x401px

>>47723234

>>47725598

He had the base idea for better Paladins and a host of other bullshit other people told him to keep out.

Then he threw it all in two decades later

>>47725598

DnD paladins only fall when they make selfish actions at the expense of actions. It is intent that matters. If a paladin accidentally fucks something up, it's just their job to fix it, they aren't excommunicated from god.

>>47725763

*at the expense of others

>>47725763

Shame so many people don't accept that. A lot of guys Paladins fall if they don't take the first opportunity to climb on a cross. Any other action is a shamefur dispray

>>47725926
I blame most players who perpetuate this being Catholic.