Warhammer 40k General

>>47696669
I require pics of these busty centaur rough riders!

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Let's start the general with some Bingo. As usual, we'll take requests for replacing outdated tiles with newer memes and bullshit.

>>47696686
He only posted the one, unless I missed an update last thread
And sadly I don't have it

>>47696694
Forgot free tile. The free tile for today is:
"Tyranids don't suck, just don't play melee and use 14 flyrants"

>>47696694
Replace "old rules back" with something about CSM being a mid-tier army, with Imperial Guard being 2nd worst due to GT results. That went on for a few generals.

>>47696694
Don't be ridiculous, I wouldn't use more than four riptides in a 1000 pt casual game :^)

>>47696694
I'd replace the Blitz Brigade box with FAQ Frustrations.

>>47696694
Replace big boss with "FAQ's are bullshit because it contradicts my WAACfaggotry"

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>>47696709
OP here, I don't have it either. Hopefully someone who does have it will post it this general.

Also, centaur guardsmen in general. I want to see someone make 1-man(or monstergril) heavy weapon teams, of just a centaur abhuman lugging around an autocannon.

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>le angry autistic homosex man
vs
>le emo batman with added edge

IN THE BATTLE OF THE MENTALLY ILL, WHO COMES OUT THE VICTORY?

>>47696731
>he's THIS weak

I raise you x4 Riptides with this.

HQ: Fireblade (60)
Troop: x5 Fire Warriors (45)
Troop: x5 Fire Warriors (45)
[Heavy Retribution Cadre]
x1 Ghostkeel (130)
x1 Stormsurge (360)
x1 Stormsurge (360)

Total: 1000

That's ignoring the T'aunar list.

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>>47696743
>Book XXXVIII

How is this for a casual or pickup game BAngel list? It's about 50 points off of 1500, so I could use some tips on how to pad it out, or what better gear options would be.

+ HQ (301pts) +

Librarian (Terminator) (150pts) [Auspex, Combi-Melta, Digital weapons, Psyker (ML2), Teleport homer]
····Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Furious Charge, Independent Character, Psyker

Sanguinary Priest (151pts) [Additional Weapon, Combi-Melta, Digital weapons, Jump pack, Melta bombs, Relic blade, Teleport homer, The Veritas Vitae, Warlord]
····Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Furious Charge, Independent Character, Warlord

+ Elites (795pts) +

Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost (130pts)
····Rules: Fearless, Furious Charge, Fury Unbound, Guardian of the Lost, Rage, Relentless, Zealot

Sanguinary Guard Squad (170pts) [5x Angelus Boltgun, Death Masks, 5x Encarmine Sword, 5x Sanguinary Guard]
····Rules: Fearless, Furious Charge

Terminator Assault Squad (495pts) [Company Standard (replaces a Claw or Shield), 4x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield]
····Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Furious Charge
····Land Raider Crusader [Pintle Multi-melta, Storm bolter]
········Rules: Assault Vehicle, Power of the Machine Spirit, Transport 16

+ Troops (350pts) +

Cassor the Damned (140pts)
····Rules: Furious Charge, None Can Stay My Wrath, Rage

Raphen's Death Company (210pts)
····Rules: Fearless, Feel No Pain, Furious Charge, Rage, Relentless

>>47696742
Are centaur abhumans even canon, or at least sanctioned ones
I feel like that would be considered a pretty eroticly heinous mutation in the eyes of the ordo xenos

>>47696757
It won't at this rate.

>>47696647
Things to avoid

Wraithknight: they are just plain stupid and there is no way to play one fair. Worst option for them is still at least 60pts undercost.

Wraithguard with d-scythes: the weapon was just a mistake. They are good against literally everything.

Scatterbikes: units of 5 scatbikes is mobile, tough, really shooty for it's points, and objective secured.

Warpspiders: even if play them the fair way, with only the skitterleap once per turn, they are insanely good. Mobile, shooty, and survivable.

After that
Jetbikes in general: if you're mixing in normalbikes and don't bring too many you can be okay. But you like guardians anyways, so you can do alright.

Non-scythe Wraithguard in WS. Still really fucking good, though one unit can be fine, and if they're footslogging are pretty fair imho.

Jetbike seers council is really good, especially if you try for invisibility.

Crimson Hunters are good fliers, and spamming good fliers is bad form.

That you've got some stuff that's still really powerful, but all feels within the lines of fair if you're not a dick about it.

>>47696781
God damn it why does it keep spoilering the whole rest of the sentence

>>47696781
No, but catgirls are. However 40k is setup in such a way that everything is canon. It's a really fucking big galaxy, whose to say there isn't a guard regiment out there consisting entirely of busty centaurs?

>>47696769
Buy Cassor an empty drop pod as a fast attack choice. Glue the doors shut when you build the model

So I did a thing.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MvqvSl7KdSBOi-O8DASkXKqmM4TzTL08Z8bFiAi0-Eo/edit?usp=sharing

Don't know exactly why, but here's a modified harlequin codex with expanded armory and unit options, and changed detachments/formations in an effort to make the book less restrictive, and more flavorful and reminiscent of the citadel journal list of old.

be gentle, I tried. Accepting criticism

>>47696526
thanks. I'm pretty sure the next 250 is going to be a command squad in a chimera, plus a wyvern, then next 250 after that a hellhound and putting my last vet squad in a chimera.
Last 250 Plasma Russ.

I could go for another vet squad instead of the command squad, but even with only two vets as targets, having those orders seems pretty good.

List to start, short form is:
HQ: Pask in Punisher, plus a standard russ
Troops: Melta Vets in chimera, with commissar
Vets with heavy weapon and camo gear

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Here's the new Updated Bingo sheet. The new free tile is Raptors Anon. Because he's already posted in this general. Have fun figuring out who it is.

>>47696647
>What should I really avoid to make it fun and not something that just stomps games?

Generally speaking anything is OK as long as you don't spam them in every slot.

Units with "black marks" are:

Windriders with Scatterlasers, either limit yourself to a single unit of those, or only buy one scatter laser per 3 bikes (or buy none at all, the Shuiriken Cannon is coll and fluffy too.)

Wraithguards With D-schythes, same as above, either limit yourself to one unit or stick with vanilla guns (which are still brutal)

Wraitknights, unless you REALLY love the model, just pass it by.

Warp spiders if taken in excess.

That's about the one's I remember people usually go apeshit over.

Do note Howling banshees don't tie up shit, they have T3 and 4+ saves, their thing is crippling the enemy on the chargem, otherwise they'll get creamed.

Striking Scorpions are way better at the "long game" with 3+ saves and an extra attack at i10 each turn.

>>47696802
>In Book 5 of the Beast Arises series
>Black Templar marches into a prison cell full of hundreds of Long Shanks
>Says they're deviant strains and murders them
>One of the inmates is a regular human
>PURE HUMAN SPOTTED. YOU. COME WITH ME.
>Then she rats him out to Autistic Fist Chapter Master and they get chided

S C U M

>>47696842
>ignoring codex rankings

I advise you to look in the last 5 threads then get back to me.

>>47696800
I was considering a Wraithlord since they look pretty badass, from what I can tell it doesn't seem too powerful.

Are Wave serpents too powerful for how fast they can move, or would a couple be a fair way of getting the guardians across the field to secure objectives and what not?

>>47696781
No, they wouldn't be abhumans, that there's straight up mutant.

>>47696879
Adhuman just means a genetically stable species which breeds true. So, it's very possible. Lots of meme abhumans used to exist like mermaids and harpies and shit once upon a time.

But I think it's shit because it's furfaggotry and shits up something that's already shitted up.

>>47696868
It's kind of hard to put what you requested in the bingo sheet. Otherwise Codex Rankings is a perfectly normal, non-faggotry concept. The whole point of the bingo sheet is to pay attention to faggotry that happens on a constant basis.

I'm tempted to replace "Mat is a Waacfag" with "FELINIDS", but the bingo sheet is already pretty homogenous to begin with, and any mention of Busty Rough Riders inevitably leads to someone mentioning felinids.

>>47696873
Wraithlords are awesome models and they do a solid job with just the ghost-glaive, dont' bother with bug guns, they are way too expensive for him.

Wave serpents got rebalanced very solidly, now they are "just" very good tranports

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>>47696911
But anon, it's only furfaggotry if the player in question is a furfaggot to begin with. It's pefectly acceptable to have nekogirls in 40k. Or to go complete, 200% furry like in alfabusa's video for the sake of satire.

>>47696942
Fucking manhands!
I can tell the artist used his own hand as a reference for this.

>>47696844
what fucks Howling Banshees the most is that space marines can't be swept.
Devastating charge into a sweep is what they do, but the things their powerswords are best at killing stop the rest of their trick bag.
If you ever get the chance to play them against SoB, CSM, or even Admech, you can see them do a good job. Scorpions are still a little better, but they are also more expensive.

As is, their still decent in Zone Mortalis, but they have no place outside of it.

>>47696920
i'd differ slightly is saying a single brightlance or starcannon gives them some shooting they can do while they get up the board, without putting to many points into what's actually a pretty fragile basket. Also, always flamers over catapults always.

Otherwise agree.

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>>47696952
I just noticed that too. Dang.

>>47696694
>Carnac
>Orks are a melee race

>>47696920
Thanks for the input, now to ready my wallet.

>>47696956
So do howling banshees serve a niche role against armies that can be swept, or would it always be better to get striking scorpions over them?

Are Dissonance Cannons any good they seem too expensive to spam but not good enough only using one or two?

>>47696983
> Orks are a melee race
Already on the bingo chart
> Carnac
Haven't seen him in months. He got replaced with Raptors Anon, who still shows up every day to mention his stupid deredeo.

>>47697002
(not that anon, but) its almost always a better idea to go striking scorpions. The extra initiative 10 attack and strength 4 almost makes up for lack of power weapons. The exarch with his at-initative non-specialist fist and the 3+ armor, stealth, infiltrate definitely do.

Only time banshees are good in normal games are in range of the avatar and in an aspect host for ws5, rage, furious charge. But then again the scorpions get those same benefits so eh.

>>47697025
you got it. Single shot s5ap4 isn't terrible, but the bonuses only working on 6's and the price for that bonus works too much against it.

1d4chan does a good breakdown of the best use of dissonance weaponry, I believe

>>47697002
>Howling Banshees
it would need to be an army that can be swept, an army where you need good melee to defeat in melee, and an army with at least 4+ armor on the troops you want to kill.

Also not necrons in their special detachment as the Ld10 and reanimate means you can't pull it off.

So basically the three armies I mentioned. That's how niche they are right now. Basically go scorpions unless you know you're facing one of those, or playing ZM.

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>>47696694
Replace blitz brigade

>MFW as per the new FAQ Orks are not even allowed to deploy inside their battlewagons.

>>47697002
Banshees are mostly a unit you take if you really like the models.

They do decently against enemies vulnerable to Fear though that's noone of importance.

>>47697090
the fuck are you on about

>>47697039
that anon. ZM they are good because the lines of sight are short enough they can get in without getting shot down, and if armies are moving towards each other can charge before the scorps could. And getting around overwatch is a much bigger deal there.

For ZM, I like the aspect host with one scorp unit, and two smaller units of banshees, to cut down on points while filling up the formation requirement. The banshees provide decent disruption, and people run a lot of flamers in ZM.

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>>47696918
>ignoring based Felinids

RUDE.

>>47696942
10% catgirl is OK, it's when it gets to dangerously furry it's a problem.

>>47697026
Carnac is here pretty much every day, you just have to know how he types. Or, better yet, don't fucking recognise gimmickfags as something worthy to imitate.

>>47697107
battlebrothers are not allowed to start the game in each others transports. Blitz Brigade is a formation, and thus a battlebrothers allied detachment to whatever you want to put in them, so nothing can start in those battlewagons.

>>47697128
>>47697107
as of the new main rulebook FAQ**

>>47697128
That's some "Cataphractii aren't terminators so can ride bikes" tier shit.

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>>47697163
>>47697122
Alright, more changes then. "FELINIDS" and "Cataphractii Bikes" are the newest editions.

>>47697163
Correct. The (I hope, and thats how we play it in my group) intent is that Battlebrothers *from different factions* can't start the game in *dedicated* transports
(which means its most likely one of those dumb "I didn't read the rules at all, so can I take yarrick in my storm trooper detachment" kind of questions)

>>47696822
fuck off reddit
>i did a thing
cringe
>be gentle
cringe
go home

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MATT IS A WAACFAG

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This was just posted on the 40k fb page.

Any ideas on what it might be?

>>47697218
You sound mad. Are you mad?

>>47697220
C A N C E R
A
N
C
E
R

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>>47697163
But anon, cataphractiis can indeed take bikes. They have the option to take them listed in their wargear, and are not explicitly stated to have the same restriction as classic terminators.

>>47697268
Oh wow, this is carnac.

>>47697240
Those rumors about Codex Genestealers and Deathwatch most likely.

>>47696802
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUuvHPr4BGk

>>47697240
Cross promotion with the new Deathwatch game?

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Reposting the attempt of a 1500 point list to see if there is something wrong and if its viable fluff and game wise.

Company command squad+master of ordnance=80
Banehammer:410p
-----
troops
Platoon command squad with heavy flamer on chimera:105p
infantry squad with plasma rifle mounted in the banehammer:65p
combined squad with
infantry squad with plasma rifle mounted in the banehammer:65p
commissar for the combined squad:25p
ministrorum priest for combined squad:25p
special weapon squad 3 plasma rifles mounted in banehammer:75p
veterans grenadiers with 2 plasma rifles on chimera:170p
veterans grenadiers with 3 melta on chimera: 170p
--------------
Heavy support
Leeman russ battle tank:150
Leeman russ exterminator, lascannon, heavy bolter sponsons:160

>>47697240
space marines killing aliens, presumably

>>47696942
>>47696978
>>47697122
see
>>47697296

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>>47697240
>"Space Marine and xenos armies"
>CSM don't get to play

>>47697284
Chain letters are YT comment tier trash.

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>>47697286
>>47697301
>>47697329
>Deathwatch finally get new pauldrons and some fluff
Maybe even a sequel to the god tier Deathwatch by Steve parker?

>>47697363
>that gif
>not sure if Perils or psyker shooting eye fire normally

>>47696737
Hope you know they killed Dark Eldar, who were already meh to begin with.

>>47697418
>Shit the daemon is coming, run!
>Shit I can only slide!
>All right let's do this!
>Begone Daemon!
>Indirect Perils ensue

There's a reason Empy wanted to help humanity with its psyker's gene and psykers are generally feared.

Are heldrakes still worth the moolah? or nah

>>47697541
Still one of the better units in the Codex.

>>47696694
who the fuck is Matt? the miniwargaming faggot? why is he relevant to anyone?

>>47697577
Noone worth posting about

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>>47697577
He's from miniwargaming, and you're right to say he's no long relevant.

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>>47697312

This list isn't bad, but depending on how optimal you want to be it could be better. Some thoughts:

IG / AM basic infantry are, by themselves, complete trash. The more of them you have in your list, the worse your list is as a general rule. This is mitigated if you do one of a couple of things:

>vets in chimeras
which you have done with 2 squads already

>50 man blobs
Why? Because even though they are all trash, you get a greater multiplier from using orders, psychic power buffs, and priest buffs on them to make them worth it. Making 10 guys fearless with a priest for 25 points vs making 50 guys fearless for the same 25 points. That brings me to the next point:

>except in very specific situations, priest > commissar at everything
You don't need both a commissar and a priest, you need a priest and he needs to be in a bigger squad to get more mileage out of his buffs. Instead of a commissar, consider a level 1 psyker for prescience or rending buffs on your lasrifle FRFSRF salvos.

>Banehammer
Why? It has an AP 3 gun that doesn't even ignore cover. It is defeated by both terminator armor and trees. For 400 points, you could do better. Consider a different model with an AP2 cannon, ignore cover, or the stormlord which at least shoots enough to be worth it. Stormlord also has room for 40, so you can beef out that tiny combined unit into something better.

>Exterminator
I know people like these but...I don't. They aren't good at killing anything but medium/light vehicles, which you don't need help with. Punisher, eradicator, or executioner are better investments imo. Also, make your sponsons match your hull mount and turret - you shoot the autocannon at AV 12 and your heavy bolters are wasted. You shoot heavy bolters at infantry and your lascannon is basically wasted. Pick a specialized role and kill that thing the entire game so you don't waste points.

>LRBT
is bad. Get a different one.

>MoO
hardly ever worth it. take the astropath

>>47697596
about half of those are thankfully not that relevant anymore

also people getting rules wrong should be the center space

>>47697432
Well deldar did get fucked by that, it's a fair interpretation of the rule and I believe it was always intended that way and wasn't done to fuck over the dark eldar.

There codex just has some pretty glaring problems in design.

>>47696569
> tabled 2x in a row
Ack, tabling armies was not my intent.

Is your friend using v4 of the codex? I really made shit broken in the first couple of iterations, but it's toned down a bit now. Lootas are as absurd as ever; I'm thinking I may add a special exception for them or Deffguns that makes them just guarantee 3 shots on Waaagh! rather than TL them.

>>47697677
Getting tabled 2x in a row wasn't my fault, it's because we haven't had "The talk" with him about why you shouldn't bring Superheavies to casual games. His lists were unbound with multiple superheavies.

I also had extremely strong lists that failed only because of hilariously bad whifflebatting in the worst places imaginable. I had 3 dreadnoughts, Hammernators in a land raider, and 2 squads of devastators with lascannons, all meant to deal with his superheavies. Every last one of them whifflebatted on game-critical actions.

I chalk it up to karma for me tabling him 26 times without even trying to before your codex came out.

>>47697647
>also people getting rules wrong should be the center space

Don't you mean people that never read rules themselves but rely on spoonfeeding and the 4th edition BRB.

>>47697474
Shooting fire out of the eyes is awesome, but I'm sure Emps wants you to have a license to do that.

>>47697734
> people relying on spoonfeeding and the 4th edition BRB.
Yea this pisses me the fuck off when it happens. There's an oldbeard at my FLGS that still insists on independent characters special rules not applying to the unit you attach them to(which is true for a lot of rules, but he insists ALL OF THEM don't apply). Amongst many other things like ignoring the existence of hull points.

>>47697771
That´s hilarious. Does anyone bother playing against him?

>>47697609
>why a banehammer
Because it can carry 25 models, i do prefer having less infantry inside a tank than having a blob in the open that gets obliterated in the first turn, the storm lord seems intresting, but its kinda annoying to have all that unused free space
> take the astropath
why should i take it? I consider it utterly worthless in my ignorance, im genuinely curious about how that model can be useful

>>47697827
Oh he adamantly refuses to even acknowledge new additions to the game. At some point I asked him if he saw the Dawn of War 3 trailer, and he went off on a diatribe about how games workshop should die in a fire for turning the game into "Kill teams". I nearly wanted to strangle him and force him to watch the damn video, but he would just have none of it. I mentioned that DOW3 would be returning to the roots of RTS, and have knight equivalents as superweapons, and he autistically blurted out; "KNIGHTS ARE THE CANCER THAT RUINED THIS GAME".

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What's a good way to do a wraith army without making people butthurt? Just don't use wraithknights and wraithguard?
And what are some good aspects to go alongside them?

>>47697915
Use 3 Wraith Lords for each Wraithknight and 3 Wraithblades for each Wraithguard. Walking Wraithguard don´t need the Wraithblade counterweight.

>>47697915
walking shooty wraiths are typically fine, melee wraiths and lords are always okay.
ONE wraithknight is typically managable, but still strong. Less so if you go with the suncannon.
for added flavour: wraithseers from forgeworld.

Wraiths are SLOW and EXPENSIVE. so any fast aspects or cheap troops would go well as a compliment

>>47697915
Don't use wraith-knights and don't use transports.
That's it.

>>47697915
just don't use d-scythes.

>aspects
Guardians. You're iyanden, not biel-tan. Vypers, falcons and defenders are pretty fucking tame for eldar.

>>47697734
Plat against a guy who tries to get supper fussy about measurement rule and los to his advantage. But twice I have to correct him on getting brb rules wrong. Still give him the benefit of the doubt that he's right about his own codex.
He isn't and once it's so bad a guy at the neighboring table jumps in and stops him. I let him reduce his whole shooting phase instead of just canceling the illegal shots.

In return he challenges me on basically every single codex special rule or larger. I have to show him the book three for one unit. I'm right every time.

He gets mad at me for'playing slow' so he can't get more turns in. After he showed up late when I was ready to deploy, took 15 min longer to set up his army and a 20+ minute tzeetch psykic phase. 2 for 2 of tzeetch demon players being dicks

>>47697915
Swooping hawks could be helpful, as wraiths have no anti-air beyond spamming scatter lasers on expensive shoulder mounts.

>>47697846
Oh, i just saw that the doomhammer mounts a better cannon, and its only ten points more than the banehammer, so i could use that and ditch the heavy flamer

>>47697880
New guy but same question: why does anyone play with this guy.

>>47697880
>Knights are the cancer
>not wraiths
>Not suits

>>47698020
They don't, he's a 70 year old bitch-machine that adamantly refuses games whenever people ask. He wastes store space by heavy handing the owner into displaying his 1000$ collection of shitty-painted ultramarines and diahrrea coloured tyranids, which never see the tabletop because again.. Refuses to play against anyone. No matter how nicely you ask, or how much you insist on playing a fun, fluffy game.

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Yeah I haven't been working on these since I did the first two prototype models, sorry.

Got all the parts to do 20, but... Eh, other projects, university... Yeah. Sorry.

>>47698053
Kick him from the store. The owner has the right to do that.

Closest we had to that was a bitchy little kid how stopped coming because no one would play against him... and was no longer told about any events

>>47698026
>Wraiths and Suits are the cancer
>Not Graviton and Psykers and "42 flavors of vanilla" Decurions

Are you guys seriously telling me that after spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars in the strongest units, people will get butt hurt and refuse to play against me because they can't deal with the high end units?

How can this be a competitive game if I have to tone down my army just to get games? should I also use a 5 sided dice so they don't get mad at me? or sometimes make up imaginary bombs on the field and blow up my dudes so they can have a chance against me? why can't people just deal with them fielding a low tier army and trying to make the best out of what they got with their strategy?

>Oh I'm sorry i didn't mean to hurt you with my powerfist... I'll just throw half the dice so you don't cry.

Real marines fight even if they're otunumbered, out gunned, in a toxic foreign planet with aberrant monsters twice their size throwing psychic nightmares at their minds, and still come out alive here and there when the emperor grants them their favor, and yet players expect for their enemies to field baby units that throw snots at them?

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>>47698061
> BUSTY
HOLY SHIT YOU'RE BACK. Seriously bro, you're amazing. Please do finish them whenever you get the chance. You've inspired me to make my own army of Monstergirl guardsmen.

Apparently Sad Panda has been rambling about a plastic daemon prince Magnus?

Sounds like bullshit, but that's the guy everyone screams is never wrong when you call his claims bull.

>>47698099
Obvious Troll, but no. People will refuse to play with you because you're an asshole.

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>>47698095
My mistake alright? They're all cancer too. I know Anon said that guy refuses to acknowledge new additions but I wonder if he thought the AdMech release was also cancer.
>>47698053
Remove.

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>>47697609
I agree with most of what you're going with here but you're making a few assumptions that are dangerous.

1) you seem to be overemphasizing the presence of 2+ armor saves in an enemy army. Most armies have 3 or 4 units at most that can have saves that good, and said units will NEVER be in significant numbers outside of tourney lists, which the Guard are no good against anyway. AP3 is good for literally 90% of all possible targets; the only Guard weapons which do better are plasma, single-shot AT guns, and the Demolisher/Medusa cannons, which fall short of the Guard's preferred engagement distance. Termies are tough but you can't and shouldn't build an army around fighting just them.

2) you're assuming cover saves make heavy, non-cover-ignoring guns useless. Barring Shrouded, Stealthed, ruins-camping silliness or other cover-save-stacking cheese, your average cover save will never get better than a 4+, which is about 50% damage reduction, and even that only goes to infantry. A Guard heavy gun will reliably score a wound for every model in the squad it's targeting, if it hits. Even with the best cover save your average unit is getting that will kill half the unit, and the other half will get pasted by THE OTHER HEAVY GUN you brought, because you're GUARD, and you never bring just ONE big gun. And for the re-rollable 2+ idiocy that occasionally shows up, order your lascannon HWT (or, if you're a BASTARD, your Earthshaker Carriage battery, pic related) to Ignore Cover completely and light up a cigar.

>LRBT is bad
u wot m8? The Leman Russ will, for reasons stated above, deliver serious pain to about 90% of the targets it will face, survive 90% of the retailiation, and for that its one of the cheapest weapons platforms there is. Sure, it can't fire all its guns, but again, for reasons above, it doesn't need anything more. It might not be the 6th ed Lumbering Behemoth powerhouse it was, but it's still a serious machine for its cost and can easily win it back.

>>47698100

Details?

I'll get right back to them after my 16 model Marine list (thank you, anvil strike force for making my dreams of ignoring marines entirely in favour of Dreadnought spam and a couple backup tanks reality), promise.

>>47698116
>Sounds like bullshit, but that's the guy everyone screams is never wrong when you call his claims bull
The guy has never been wrong. Healthy skepticism is healthy, but the people that go full retard about how he could be wrong are fucking retarded.

>>47697609
>LRBT
What are some decent tanks for roughly the same price? Executioner looks alright but pretty expensive but at least with the FAQ I won't need to worry about making them tag along with Punisher Pask.

I'll probably try Punisher for AV10-11 and see how that goes. What should I take for AV12+? I don't know if I should rely on Melta vets, I mixed Las/Melta into tanks for versatility but now I'm thinking about overhauling my mechanized lists since it looks like this:

>1250/1250 CAD
Pask, Leman Russ Punisher +Lascannon, 2 Multi-meltas
Leman Russ Executioner +Lascannon, 2 Plasma Cannons
Veterans (Chimera) +Flamer, 2 Melta Guns
Veterans (Chimera) +Flamer, 2 Melta Guns
Veterans (Chimera) +Flamer, 2 Melta Guns
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Eradicator +Lascannon, 2 Multi-meltas
Wyvern

>>47698173

>Plastic daemon primarch
>Sounds legit

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>>47696669
r8 my grey knights list lads

>>47698191

What the fuck kind of shitty app is this a screenshot from?

>>47697609
Anon, there was an argument a while back about Punisher vs. Exterminator.

Exterminator is better.

>>47698188
It seems pretty crazy, but there have been rumors about the plot moving forwards for a while now. If the End Times are coming, the extant primarchs are going to have to play a role.

>>47698210

Autocannons are generally the worst machine gun avaliable when given a list of machine gun types.

>>47698099
Yes, you're a nigger that's the very problem with this hobby. People will refuse to play with you specifically because you refuse to admit that you're the problem. Maybe you should have read the tactics page for eldar on 1d4chan, and you would have found out that people can and absolutely will boycott you if you play eldar.

>>47698088
I fucking wish. The owner's a scrawny man that hides in the back of the store all the time, and refuses to socialize with anyone. He lets his employees deal with everything, while also refusing to let them do anything either.

>>47698161
Oh, I'm going to be using Imperial Cults and Militia to make a whole army of catgirls in power armour. The conversion will go like this:

Grenadier Squads
> Space marine torso plates
> Statuesque miniatures heads, w/ greenstuff cat ears
> 30-gauge florist wire for cat tails
> 24-gauge florist wire for exoskeleton frame
> Greenstuff armour plates, with aquilla impressions
> Anvil Industry arms

Recon Squads
> Snake demon lower torso piece, from reaper bones
> Heavy Carapace torso from Anvil Industries
> Victoria Miniatures heads
> Arms from imperial guard
> sniper rifles from Anvil industries
> Ammo pouches and grenades from GW

Heavy Weapon teams
> Reaper bones centaurs
> Anvil industries heavy carapace armour
> forgeworld Mars Pattern heavy weapons
> Victoria miniatures heads
> Various tacticool shit from a combination of GW, forgeworld, and anvil industries for barding.
> Barding made from the Thighplates of space marine centurions

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Besides going maximum cheese, what's an interesting way to do suit Tau?
I was thinking about using an Optimized Stealth cadre to drop a bunch of suit squads an a Drone Net without deepstriking, but does anyone else have suggestions? I'm trying to avoid gun-lining

>>47698184
Punisher past does almost as well against av12 as he does av 12. You only lose the hb shots and 20 shots should put out least 2 HP on av 12.

>>47698208
paperscribe

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>>47698099
>u casual bra?
>do u even stillman?

>>47698191
I like your termi even if I'm not a huge fan of your list anon

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>>47696847
BT confirmed for best chapter

>>47698210
No the argument went the other way, at least withvpask. Admittedly the main anon there went way too far ignoring range. But with Paul the punisher is better.

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>>47698208
>>47698191

10/10 posts

>>47698250

Paperscribe a shit, stonecarve is the only app I ever use.

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>>47697846

>free space
there shouldn't be any, because you should take a larger unit or none at all. Just 20 infantry models is a bad investment. Go 40 or go 0.

>astropath
the extra charge die will be useful for your psyker, who should be in your giant unit instead of a commissar

>>47698234
>Optimized Stealth cadre
>not maximum cheese

>>47698254
how am I supposed to tell my mom I need more plastic soldiers because the ones she bought me are too strong and no one wants to play against them?

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>>47698184
>flamers on your vets
no reason not to make them heavy flamers if you can save the points.
>eradicator
Your Wyvern does this tank's job, only better. Just get another LRBT.

Basically, put some points into giving the wyvern camo netting + enclosed crew compartment (it WILL draw fire, keep it safe and alive) and giving your vets heavy flamers.

I run mechanized often and I cannot tell you how many times that AP4 template has saved my bacon. ESPECIALLY in a Chimera. It's good for 3 reasons, all of which also apply to a standard flamer, but the Heavy flamer does it better:
>embarked units can overwatch for the transport, so enjoy a Wall of Death on whoever's trying to crumple your tin can
>can fire out the hatch for crowd control in the event they fail to kill the chimera
>can disembark favorably in the event they DO kill the chimera (reminder that squads cannot consolidate after attacking a vehicle) and then ROAST EM

Everything else looks pretty good, but remember that Pask's Preferred Enemy re-roll doesn't affect Gets Hot due to the new FAQ. Don't be too worried, though, vehicles get a 4+ 'save' to resist the lost hull point anyway.

Also that is a MEAN list at 1250 points. Don't play Orks or SoB with it.

>>47698289
I see, the problem are the points, i cant field 40 models, or psykers since they cost 60 points

>>47698283
Waxcarve is clearly the superior inbetween, it has all the features of both sides and all the cool gamers like checking out my lists on it. Are you poor or something??

>>47698145

>2+ armor
I don't think it's everywhere, but I do think you need a cost-effective tool for taking it down fast. Most lists I play against have a 2+ death star unit somewhere in them that opens tanks like cans of tuna. They have to die, and fast. Either you need a lot of flexible plasma spam or a cannon that can do that for you.

>assume cover makes non-cover guns useless
no I don't, that's a straw man. Even so, this is about cost-effectiveness and points efficiency. Can you take out that squad of pathfinder by shooting all 4 of your chimeras at it? Probably. Or you can have one ignores cover unit, and shoot the chimeras at something else. You get more utility out of units if you specialize than if you generalize.

>LRBT
sucks vs vehicles with the hullpoint rules, of any class
Can plate meq squads, but so can so many other units
cant hurt 2+ armor
cant instakill t5
loses to trees

you can do better

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>>47697846
>astropath
Several reasons.

First, at 25 points he's probably the cheapest way to get bonus warp charge dice there is.

Second, he gives your CCS a 5+ DtW, which goes to a 4+ if they're in a Chimera with Relic Plating. This can save your life.

Third, he has Psychic Shriek, which thanks to the new FAQ is an autohit that will WRECK enemy monstrous creatures and high-value squads, like the ones that'll be deep-striking your HQ.

Fourth, he also has a 1/6 chance of rolling Invisibility every game, which is the cheesiest, most OP psychic power in the game right now.

>>47698184

>tanks for same price
eradicator if you are fighting anything not marines
punisher if you are fighting anything at all, so long as you have melta to deal with armor
executioner...at least that was until GW nerfed the overheat reroll
wyverns

How would you represent a squad of Deathwatch on the tabletop (outside of their shitty, expensive formation)?

Reclusiam Command Squad?

>>47698232

Holy hell, that's commitment to making a monster girl guard batallion.

Maybe I'll double back and do more when I'm done with mine, the centaur gals will only be a 500 point detachment.

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>>47698328

then drop something or dont take the squad at all and field another chimera of vets or something. Filling your points up with 20 guardsmen is just a bad plan, they aren't worth it. With infantry you have to go big or go home, middle ground is just throwing points away.

>>47698423
SM 1st company formation with fist tactics

>>47698374
>Gives chimera 4+ deny.
Is this a thing?
I thought the target had to be a payment and the passenger is not the same unit as the transport

>>47698423
Sternguard is generally what people suggest since they are veterans with the specialist ammunition and can take pretty much whatever guns you want.

>>47698265

This. And the range argument wasn't faulty, he was just bad at explaining it and people weren't getting it.

Autocannon is an efficient weapon, one of the best, in fact, but only against things IG/AM don't need their armor to beat. Chimeras are point for point excellent at taking down medium and light vehicles, and medium/heavies are more efficiently countered by plasma and melta spam, which is far more reliable, cheaper, and more versatile. Anything an exterminator does, a punisher does better.

>>47698432
I'm also amazingly tempted to model "DARLING" in artificer armour with a power fist. But this isn't an army that I could ever take to tournaments, since I can't actually do these extensive conversions without respecting the "70% GW plastic" rule.

I'm planning on having a 3000 point, Single cad of them. So 120 catgirl grenadiers, and DARLING. Which is 1135 points. The remainder of it will be lamia recon squads, mixed monstergirl Rapier Teams, and centaur heavy weapon teams.

>>47698354
>Sucks because of hp system.
Gonna need a justification here.

And you seem to be admitting that it's a good option against Marines.

>>47698374

you can't sue psychic powers inside a vehicle unless it's witchfire, but the charge die alone is better than MoO if you have another caster on the field to use it.

>>47698530
>70%
woa when did this change? back when I played it was 50%

or was that only for units that had no printed models?

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>>47698354
>2+ armor
>Either you need a lot of flexible plasma spam or a cannon that can do that for you.
You've answered your own question, there. Guard can bring a LOT of plasma/melta if they so desire, and for the most part they DO. Guard hard counters to termies include:
>plasma/meltavets in chimeras
>HWT lascannons (preferrably with a CCS ordering them)
>Demolishers
>Medusas
>Thunderers
>Devil Dogs
>Lascannons/multimelta sponsons (works, but suffers from oneshot disease)
>plasma sponsons
>demolition charges
And that's not including the possible melee options, which DO exist though as guard going into melee is idiotic.

>cover
>You get more utility out of units if you specialize than if you generalize.
Entirely true, but building a list made entirely of hard counters is going to be a massive headache if your opponent doesn't show you his list before every game. You will never in a million years be able to fully anticipate what your opponent is bringing completely, so you have to at some point compromise and go with the jack of all trades. The way you're talking it seems like there's no place for heavy ordnance in a guard army anywhere. They're not Space Marines!

Which brings me to the Russ. No, it doesn't ignore cover. No, it doesn't ignore 2+ saves. No, it can't instagib vehicles. But it's not supposed to. It's supposed to reliably HURT 90% of what your opponent can bring to the board from ACROSS the board (there's another thing that Guard do very well with their big ordnance: RANGE), and stick around for 90% of the game thanks to its Tonka-Tough armor. It's not a specialist unit; I can see why you don't like it. It's a generalist unit, and it's one of the best there is. It's cheap, it's tough, and you will never in a million years be in a situation where it has no viable targets unless they're already in melee with you or all dead.

>>47698476
Not him, but for the first company task force, do you know if Dedicated transports counted as a separate unit for the terrifying proficiency rule?

>>47698516
I don't mean the punisher vs auto cannon part if the argument.

I mean we're he got to: meltaguns are strictly better than lascannons. And not because lascannons are more expensive. Just that the meltaguns guns will always be able to do the job and the range does matter.

>>47698534

Remove sponsons from the experiment because they can be attached to any tank, the comparison is between the battle cannon and its alternatives.

Now take a rhino. It has 3 HP. You fire your 150 pt LRBT at it. The plate, if it doesn't scatter, has a chance of doing 1 HP of damage. You killed 1/3 of a rhino.

Shoot a punisher at it. You hit 10 times on average. 1.5 of those will glance and remove HP. It's better, and doesn't scatter.

Shoot an executioner at it. Two of your 3 blasts hit, one glances or pens. You tie the LRBT and are better at killing heavy infantry to boot.

The only thing LRBT is ok at is killing clumped meqs marching through an open field, which honestly just about anything can deal with. It doesn't take HP3 vehicles down quickly, it doesn't take heavy armor infantry down quickly. It doesn't force things out of cover. It's bad.

>>47698555
I have no idea, 70% is the rule I've heard of. If it's any consolation to GW managers, all the greenstuff and bases will be from them. All of the shitty, horribly overpriced greenstuff.

>>47698541
>you can't use (sic) psychic powers inside a vehicle unless it's witchfire
Guess what psychic shriek is.

>>47698487
Relic Plating gives the vehicle Adamantium Will, which gives a +1 DtW. However, I looked it up and unfortunately you can't use the Astropath's Mastery to increase the DtW of the Chimera. Sadface.
HOWEVER, he's still a cheap WC point and if you're using a footslogging CCS he'll make their DtW a 5+.

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Goddamn I can't get over how awesome this diorama is

>>47698557

hurting something is not killing it. A lasrifle can hurt a marine...1/19 times it tries to. A heavy support slot unit that sinks 150 point to drop a single HP off a transport or bounce off termies or mildly inconvenience pathfinders is just a bad tool. Use any of the other things you mentioned instead, they actually work.

Are assault marines viable right now? I don't see many people using them

>>47698706
In a competitive setting? No.
Are space marines a strong enough army they can afford a few bad eggs? Yes.

>>47698254
Can you imagine a group of people with the attitude? All playing identical lists over and over again, forever.

>>47698631
>Implying
The battle cannon can't pen and pens are worthless unless they can get explodes.
Implying missing by scattering a large blast of a rhino is more likely than rolling poorly on two hit.
And that 2+ save heavy infantry are more common than t5 heavy infantry. Fnp t4 infantry or multi wound infantry.

Implying making the Marines go from 3+ to 4+ or even 5+ is worthless.

And completely ignoring the value of generalist units. Though here I'll admit that this value is much higher at lower point values.

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What is more heretical and constitutes the greatest betrayal of the Emperor?
An Inquisitor eloping with a feisty eldar wench, LCB style, or an Inquisitor eloping with a cute Neverborn?

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all this for $90 american pesos
is it worth it?

>>47698762
The one with the daemon.

>>47698762
Wtf is a neverborn?

>>47698762
> Inquisitor eloping with a neverborn
First of all, what the fuck is a neverborn?
> Inquisitor eloping with a feisty eldar wench
Refer to TTS. Unions between humans and eldar are okay, because it will invariably lead to interspecies STD's that will contribute to killing off the race even faster.

>>47698740

You read my post and draw the following conclusions:
That a BC cant pen
that games are oversaturaded with 2+ armor
that reducing saves is WORTHLESS
that generalist units are WORTHLESS

I don't have the energy to refute the grocery list of strawmen you cram into your posts. If you respond with an argument that actually address mine I'll consider talking to you again.

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>>47698784
Daemons

Now i dont have a codex, but i combine veteran squads? if so i could mount 30 grenadier vets with 9 plasma rifles in a stormlord with primaris psyker commissar and priest attached, while the hq having both master of ordnance and astropath will sit in a chimera (plus the two leman russ from the previus list)

>>47698805
Nope.

>>47698631
>Rhino
A lightly armored APC, and one of many, MANY enemies the russ will fight. let's run some numbers.

Against GEQ (low-save T3 models) most russ guns will reliably wound, so we're more looking at hits here. The executioner will, assuming average spread, score about 8-12 hits. The punisher will score 10. The BT will score 5-8. of these, 85% or so will wound in all cases, so the Executioner is the clear winner.

Versus MEQ (good-save T4-or-so models) the Punisher loses strength, but the BT and Executioner don't care.

Versus TEQ the Executioner STILL doesn't care, and the BT loses strength.

So in terms of infantry, you've got a point. but there's some problems you're not considering. First, the Executioner Gets Hot. And due to its high rate of fire, without sponsons it will get at least one Gets Hot result by the end of turn TWO. WITH sponsons this happens even faster. Something to consider.

Now, as for vehicles:

AV10: due to higher rate of fire, as you said, the Executioner wins out, scoring an average of two hits, of which one will pen. The punisher can actually hurt it, but not reliably. The BT will reliably score a pen.

AV11: The Executioner has about a 50% chance of scoring a penetrating hit. The BT has about a 70% chance of hitting (depending on target size) and will pen about 75% of the time there, so it's already started to win out over the Executioner.

AV12 and AV13: the Executioner is no longer effective, and the BT can still reliably damage targets. Maybe not pen them, but at least damage them.

AV14: neither gun can RELIABLY damage this AV, but the BT CAN damage it. Strictly speaking, the BT can damage anything except the mythical AV15. That's one of it's strong suits.

So you can have a vehicle that will reliably damage everything but AV14 and TEQ, or a vehicle that will reliably damage everything but AV12-14 and statistically will glance itself by the end of turn 4.

Note also that the BT has twice the range of the executioner.

>>47698805

No, only standard infantry can be blobbed together. The good news is you don't want to do what you said anyway, it wouldn't work well.

>>47698777
it's lower than msrp, so yeah

>>47698797
why didn't you say daemon then?

>>47698790
>that games are oversaturaded with 2+ armor

Really? Can you name me the 2+ armour guys for Imperial Guard, Daemons, CSM, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks...

you know what, name me the 2+ of every single army.

>>47698781
But, anon:
- Daemons are made of human psychic emanations
- They don't exist according to the imperial creed anyway.
So it's just going to be like having a waifu tulpa. Surely that's less offensive to Big E that having sex with an ayyylmao.

>>47698790
Two different people are calling you out. But you did say that it's "sucks" against vehicles.
And that it "loses to trees" which is hard to read those statements as significantly different than "worthless".

You also have used the term "heavy infantry" as identical to 2+ saves.

>>47698842
I'm not that anon but it's what CSM and the Lost and the Damned call Daemons

>>47698797
Not him, but it's a name widely used in the fluff.

>>47698557
from personal experience:
the basic LRBT was good for a long time in 5e, and even 6e until the new codex, and has fallen out of favor for a simpler reason than being ineffective: other things competing for the same slot do the same job better for the same points or less.

av14 isn't what it used to be either, many armies have weapons that will punk you hard anyway.

my personal favorites for applying template to enemy for the glory of the emperor:
1) Manticore
2) Manticore
3) Wyvern
4) Wyvern
5) LR Eradicator

the manticore is probably the single most under-rated artillery peice the guard have access to, and that is before considering the options granted by forgeworld:
Option 1) storm Eagle Rockets: D3 Str 10 Ap4 multiple barrage (better saturation than LRBT and IDs T5)
Option 2) Manticore Missile: 1 shot Str 9 Ap2 7" massive blast (larger area coverage with better ap and higher strength)
Option 3) Sky Eagle Rockets: 1 shot Str 9 Ap2 skyfire,missile,heatseeker (point and remove skimmers and fliers)

its also worth noting that according to BRB they may be fired directly, and the minimum range applies to indirect fire only

>>47698664
>hurting something is not killing it
You know, I used to be like you. When I started playing guard I was convinced the only victory was a table. You didn't stop until your opponent was DEAD.

But 40k doesn't play that way. There's invuln saves, Feel no Pain, Reanimation Protocols, Eternal Warrior, the list goes on and on and on.

The simple truth is that killing an enemy unit is not always possible, and sometimes when it IS it's not actually worth it. Especially in the current edition dripping with high-wound, high-toughness Monstrous Creatures. What you want is a unit that can reliably inflict damage where you need it to, and put that where that reliable output will do the most good.

You're not Eldar, or Decurion Necrons. You're not going to sweep the board. You're going to win on points 90% of the time. So you need to earn them the Guard way. Slow, grinding effort.

>>47698860
The Emperor never said to kill all xenos, he just said that dangerous xenos should be rendered powerless and of no threat to the Imperium. Of course, that's taken as "kill them all", but the Emperor was a bro with Eldrad before, I believe, the Eldar refused to become a vassal/puppet state of the Imperium.

>>47698860
*than

>>47698303
>Flamers
I really like Heavy Flamers especially after what it did to DE and their transports I just couldn't fit it in that tight 1,250 point list. I can definitely make room for that and protecting my Wyvern after toning down how many points I spend on my HQ.

>Executioner
Also gotta update my lists that include it, since I can just let it roam free and make some other (maybe cheaper) tank stay in front of Pask. I like to keep one if I feel I need plasma but want my vets to stick with melta.

Now I can go and tweak my lists thanks to the FAQ.

>>47698881
>>47698883

Well that was neat-o

>>47698821

We agree on the infantry point, so let's unpack the AVs a bit.

AV 10: I agree, BC is inferior
AV 11: You assume a pen is better than 1.5 glances. I don't, since pens are not kills. Usually they a glance with a minor inconvenience attached. I'm sticking with the punisher/exec at this value.
AV 12: 3 s7 blast vs 1 s8 ord. Once again, I dont place a large amount of value on the pen, I want as many meet or beet the AV as possible. Ill take the exec.
AV 13/14: at this point I no longer care, because all of these guns are bad against this target and being slightly less awful at hurting it is irrelevant. You should be using meltaguns for this anyway, so who the fuck cares?

The nerf to the item that let you reroll 1/s on exec overheat makes the tank less good now, I agree. But that just means you should replace it with meltas, not an LRBT imo. The BS being slightly less awful at something isn't an endorsement of it, it has to excel at a function to justify being chosen over another unit.

>>47698855

do you even reading comprehension? I am saying you assumed I said that when I didn't. A strawman fallacy means that you are arguing against a point no one is making. You need to read posts more carefully.

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>>47698888
>Muh MLRS
I will not even begin to argue with you. My beloved manticore (pic related, magnetized so it can pull Deathstrike duty) is pretty much an auto-include. I especially love wrecking Land Raiders with it. No one expects an AP4 shot to do any real damage, until they realize that if i'm hitting you three times with S10 ordnance, I don't CARE about the Vehicle Damage Table. I don't need to know where your engine or fuel tank or ammo bin is, I'm going to reduce YOU and everything in a twenty-meter radius to a PARKING LOT.

I just love the Russ and I think it's getting more hate than it deserves. It's outshined in 7e by more reliable, more specialized units, but it's far from useless, and it's far from the worst unit the guard has.

>>47698893
>Necromancer tabling others.
That's the thing the next one are least good at.
They're stupidly tough but their shooting is only ok.

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>>47698860
Hmmmmmmmmmm.

>>47698894
>Horus starts trying to build a human-xenos utopia
>Erebus fucks it all up
If you could strangle any one person to prevent the heresy, would it be better to kill Erebus or Kor Phaeron?

Anyone use Tri-Vindicator squadron?

Is it cheese?

Is it as fun as it looks?

>>47698925
Yeah, not him.

>reading comprehension

I always chuckle at this. Nobody outside of 4chan ever uses this as an argument.

>AdHom

STRIKE 1!

>Fallacy Fallacy

STRIKE 2!

>Appeal to Definition

STRIKE 3!

>Appeal to Authority

STRIKE 4!

But the reason is, I quoted you by mistake, instead of him. But since this is the limit of your argumentation, I wouldn't bother anyway.

>>47698960

Well I don't know about you, but my opponents feel really vindicated whenever I use it.

>>47698900
Pask's ally tank should probably be one of the Ordnance russes. They benefit more from Preferred Enemy, and the Demolisher in particular has similar range to Pask so you don't have to juggle the two tanks' effective engagement distances in your head.

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Do you love Erebus, teegee?

>>47698660
I do enjoy the fact that the Ordinatus if aimed well would pretty much remove 1/3 of the Tau on the platform with one shot.

>>47698733
yeah it's pretty much impossible that it would happen irl.

>>47698893

I don't even know how to articulate an answer to this because it's so far in left field, but I'll try.

You assume from my saying that a high priority unit needs to die fast, that I intend to table every opponent in every game regardless of the objectives or the army I am fighting. This is a strawman. There is nothing wrong with my argument that high priority units need to do, and they need to go in the 1-2 turns you have to drop them before they enter combat with your armor.

You try to "slowly grind down" a unit of bikes or a landraider full of assault terminators and you will just lose a lot of points you didn't have to. The solution to an AV 14 brick full of 2+ armor saves isn't to throw S8 BS shots at it for 6 turns, it's to drive a 15 point meltagun in front of it then drop plasma on whatever gets out of the wreck. That's just common sense. It doesn't imply everything you do has to be "to table" the other guy, it just means you aren't retarded.

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Lotsa IG lists today. Here's my new 1500 pt list.
HQ
Command Squad (169 Pts)
- Veteran (4): Flak Armour, FgGren, Lasgun(4), Vox-caster, Medi-pack, Carapace Armour(4),
- Company Commander (1): Flak Armour, FgGren, Refractor Field, CCW, Bolt Pistol, Carapace Armour,
- Chimera (1): Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Extra armor,

Troops
Platoon Command Squad (151 Pts)
- Guardsman (4): Flak Armour, FgGren, Lasgun(4), Vox-caster, Medi-pack,
- Platoon Commander (1): Flak Armour, FgGren, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol,
- Chimera (1): Milti-laser, Heavy Bolter, Dozer Blade, Camo Netting, Extra Armor

Platoon Infantry Squad (60 Pts)
- Guardsman (9): Flak Armour, FgGren, Lasgun, Meltagun(1)
- Sergeant (1): Flak Armour, FgGren, LasPistol, CCW,

Platoon Infantry Squad (50 Pts)
- Guardsman (9): Flak Armour, FgGren, Lasgun,
- Sergeant (1): Flak Armour, FgGren, Laspistol, CCW,

Heavy Weapons Squad (75 Pts)
- Heavy Weapon Team (3): Flak Armour, FgGren, Lasgun, Autocannon(3),

Veteran Squad (100 Pts)
- Veteran (9): Flak Armour, FgGren, Lasgun(9), Meltagun(3), KrGren,
- Sergeant (1): Flak Armour, FgGren, CCW, Laspistol,

Elites
Militarum Scions (250 Pts) (Kasrkin)
- Tempestus Scion (9): Carapace Armour, FgGren, KrGren, Hot-shot Lasgun, Grenade Launcher(2),
- Tempestor (1): Flak Armour, FgGren, Hot-shot Laspistol, Power Weapon,
- Taurox Prime (1): Taurox Battle Cannon, TL Autocannon, Dozer Blade, Extra armor,

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Squadron (315 Pts)
- Leman Russ (1): Vanquisher Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Extra armor,
- Leman Russ (1): Punisher Gatling Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Multi-melta, Extra armor,


Basilisk Battery (330 Pts)
- Basilisk (1): Earthshaker Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Extra armor, Camo Netting, Enclosed Crew Compartment,
- Basilisk (1): Earthshaker Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Extra armor, Camo Netting, Enclosed Crew Compartment,

>>47698955
Requesting a properly drawn one of these. Like, NOW.

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>>47699003
No

>>47699017
Only if it's with a pretty girl daemon.

>>47699023
Poor Argel Tal ;_;

>>47698925
It is a point you made. Or at least implied when you use "heavy infantry" to mean only 2+ saves.

Because if it means 3+ saves. 5+tough. Fnp or reanimation with t4. Which it is for many people. Then the left is not worse than the plasma vs.
Since the most common 2+ saves are on models with 3++ saves or t6. Or a combination of invun and high toughness. The advantage is much less than you imply.

For your statements about "heavy infantry" to be true and relevant, you do need teqs to be common as a hidden premise.
That's not a strawman.

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>>47698981

>saying someone made a mistake they actually made is ad hom
>fallacy fallacy
No, I'm using the term correctly, pic related
>appeal to definition
what?
>appeal to authority
you don't know what this means. I am not evoking another person's rank title or status to validate my opinion

>>47698945
honestly in the current state of the game the LRBT isn't terrible but either needs lumbering behemoth back or a points drop in comparison to its more specialized variants. the problem isn't the unit itself, but how it compares to others in the same slot (especially since guard are still stuck to CADs 90% of the time with the mont'ka formations being so point heavy)

really though, past about 1250pts the correct choice is always to ignore the heavy support slots in the cad and take the emperor's wrath artillery formation consisting of: CCS in chimera, wyvern, wyvern or basilisk, manticore.

if for no other reason than they now have the better generalism than the russ with ignores cover tacked on top.... apply camo nets and aegis line for defense.

I own a LOT of russes from the old apocalypse tank company box I was gifted. I'd love to have a valid reason to use them, with the current hullpoints/vehicle damage rules I am better off using other units than buying single shot per turn ordnance for 150pts each.

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>>47699016
>Leman Russ Squadron (315 Pts)
>- Leman Russ (1): Vanquisher Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Extra armor,
>- Leman Russ (1): Punisher Gatling Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Multi-melta, Extra armor,

NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN!

NEVER have a non-TC Russ squadron with different weapons. You will ALWAYS waste shots, no matter what you're firing at.

Otherwise, not bad. Though if you had the foresight to do so you can pull the gun deck off your basilisks and use the earthshaker cannons as Heavy Artillery Carriages.

Do you want 6-wound T7 Artillery models that can go to ground, don't care about AP2/1/melta/haywire, and can have a Primaris Psyker attached right in to 1) let them TAKE ORDERS AT LD 9 and 2) get the battery twin-linking?

I think you do, anon. I think you do.

>>47699113
...What book are the carriages in?

>>47699063

Let me clarify, since perhaps I am just bad at articulating my points and that's the cause of the confusion. I do not think the game is oversaturated with 2+ units, which is why I refused to name units for you...I don't want to defend a position I don't hold.

I would say, however, that in my experience, most players field a unit of 2+, FNP, and/or t5 units that pretty much death star whatever they touch. I can speculate on why this is - a disproportionately large number of marines players in the game means that land raiders, terminators, bikes, and similar units are common to play against. At least half my games are vs marines, and most of those have a raider and a 2+ armor or FNP unit in their lists.

To beat this, I have found that you need to destroy them quickly with specialized tools. There simply aren't enough shooting phases to whittle them down before they take large chunks out of your list. The LRBT does not do this, and so, while it is not worthless, it is ineffective compared to its alternatives.

Those things it is ok at the other russes or other units are better at, making it a poor investment.

>>47699016
de-battery the basilisks, otherwise looks ok-ish.

main questions: why are the vets walking, give them the PCS chimera and reduce meltaguns to 2, use those saved 10 points to give the sergeants each a boltgun to unify shooting ranges, and give the scions better special weapons than awful GLs.

also de-battery your basilisks at minimum, or consider the artillery formation described in my previous post >>47699076

>>47699076
I'm trying one at 750 points because I think it being a decent answer to many things is good when i have so few units. And it would be hard to squeeze a more expensive variant then. It's escalation so I'm going to upgrade it to a plasma cannon version latter.

If I have a mob of slugga boyz, and one boy in the squad was two handing a flag, would your wysiwyg get upset or is it fine?

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>>47699076
>emperor's wrath artillery formation
A namefag after my own heart. My personal favorite setup for this is wyverns, bassies, manticore. That way no orders are wasted and I get a non-HS wyvern out of the deal that can get pinning/split fire if it wants.

I had an idea with an old demolisher hull i got my hands on to kitbash it into a Thunderer Siege tank. If you're a fan of the Vindicator, it's pretty much that, except for 15 points more, it has better armor on every facing, access to camo netting, and looks WAY cooler.

Another possibility is to run them as ABG Russes. If you're unfamiliar, I refer to the Armored Battlegroup FOC from Imperial Armor Vol. 1 2nd edition. They have a tactica on 1d4chan, but here's a tidbit:

You can have a 72" S8AP2 Instant Death blast. Not the effect; the USR. Fuck Riptides. Fuck Nids. FUCK EVERYTHING.

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>>47699133
Forge world stuff, my nigga. But I'm a kind anon; here is a screencap of the relevant page.

>>47699196
If someone actually has a problem with it then you literally should not give them the satisfaction of playing with you.

>>47699161
>>47699113
Noted. Thanks for the feed back

>>47699016

>CCS
lose the medipack, it won't save you if anything shoots at you anyway. Just hide in a vehicle and save the points.
lose the refractor field, same reason. lose the carapace armor, same reason. They won't help you often enough to be worth it.

>Troops
Lose medipack on PCS, lose camo netting on chimera, lose dozer blade and armor, too. None of them are worth the points.

Put another meltagun on squad 2

Ditch the autocannon team, take a wyvern, chimera, veterans, more infantry, or something else

>Vets
are good, put them in chimera

>scions
are trash. I know ap3 guns looks good, but it's not. take more infantry, conscripts, or veterans instead.

>heavies
lose vanq and take another punisher or some more mobile meltaguns for antitank instead

>bassies
...no, do yourself a favor and take wyverns.

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Anyone know any way of improving my IG list for competitive 2.5k games?

CCS: Carapace, chimera, medic, vox, volov's cain, x2 plasma, OotF

Pask and buddy tank: exterminatior, MM sponsons, lascannon

Engiseer: x5 servitors

Primis: ML2

Conscript x50: commissar, priest

PCS: flamer x3, heavy flamer (mounted in vendetta)

HWS: autocannon x3

HWS: autocannon x3

Guardsmen: grenade launcher, missile launcher

Guardsmen: grenade launcher, missile launcher

Vet squad: chimera, x3 plasma, bolt pistol, carapace

Vet squad: chimera, x3 melta, bolt pistol, carapace

Vendetta

Leman Russ Vanq: camo netting

Wyvern battery: x3 wyverns

Wyvern battery: x3 wyverns

Aegis - quad gun

Necron players: Are Catacomb Command Squads still good?

>>47696694
>no "tournament results" tile

It would cover both the graphs and the Florida deldar etc

>>47699156
Okay so you're making an anecdotal assumption problem. We're you're experience with seeing space marine putting there points into full death stars makes you think that this is the way heavy infantry will be encounter and needs to be countered. Also somehow to think that they won't just have 3++ and somehow the fnp, 2+ and t5 are coblmbined which I don't see but never mind.

This has lead you forget that there are sm list which don't just have that. With significant amounts of 3+ saves, t4 fnp etc. Or necron where the s8 and ap3 are big deals. Eldar where there are many dangerous 3+ saves and the HQ will have a t4.

Against your meta you could be correct. But you are assuming your meta is everywhere. To the point where you use terms like heavy infantry to only mean what you encounter. Without explanation, because for you this is all that exists.

>>47699322
>Florida Deldar
What's this about?
Have I missed a meme?
It made me so sad to hear Deldar got nerfed in to the ground, is it good news?

How special snowflake would be making my chapter's first company a dreadnought company?

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>>47699003
On one hand he's an asshole, but on the other without him there will be no Heresy.

And Chaos is the truth.

So yes, i like him.

>>47699236
its 12 wounds effective on a carriage, 4 crew base and +4 for 24pts

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>>47699287

>CCS
lose armor, medic, volov's. OotF is fine if you are using him with some other stuff.

>Pask and tank
Squadron? No...but fine, if you must...
Everyone love the exterminator and I can't convince them otherwise, so I'm done trying. At least you made the sponsons match the hull mount.

>enginseer
you'd better have a chimera for him to hide in and drive out to vehicles to. And honestly, that's a big point sink for a couple of HP you MIGHT save. I've only really seen priests be useful mounted in vehicles they can repair from safety.

>Primis.
This is good, but he'd better be buried in a massive squad of fodder.

>conscripts
that'll do it. Ditch the commissar, take a priest instead

>PCS
in vendetta? ehhh...could be good, and it's ob sec so I see your game. Sure, that works

>vendetta
is ok, sure. A bit pricey but if you're smart with it it can be worth it

>Vanq
meltas are better, take vets in a chimera instead

>ALL the wyverns
this guy gets it

>aegis
is good

8.5/10

>>47699371
Extremely. Most chapters have maybe a dozen dreadnoughts. An entire company would mean a hundred.

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>>47699377
>Being a chaos slave
Master called, he said he wanted you to lick his feet clean.
Good thing you're 'in to that sort of thing', right?

>>47699371
Very special.

>>47699414

Gawd Mechanicus, how hard is it to make a walking fridge and bolt on an assault cannon?

>>47699442
It's not even entirely a matter of making the dreadnoughts. You also only use dreadnoughts for marines who are incapable of fighting otherwise. Unless your chapter universally has terrible luck, but just to the point of being almost dead instead of dead-dead, you probably won't have enough marines to fill the dreadnoughts.

>>47699414
If they stuck to companies having to be 100. They're going way from the codex anyways, so they could just have the first company be made of all there venerable dreads. However many that might be.

>>47699269

CCS get Refractor for free, homes

>>47699391
Truth. I just toy with the points and usually end up buying just 2 extra crew, though.

Either way, it's basically the epitome of Guard shooting. For just under 100 points, an 11-wound unit (all crew dead = gun is dead too, so leave one man behind the gun while the rest eat wounds, followed by the gun) with T7 and the ability to take cover saves is 40kese for 'NOT GONNA DIE IN SHOOTING TODAY'.

Truthfully, anything more than 8 wounds is rather silly at T7 (the battery's effectively harder to kill than a WRAITHKNIGHT at that point), so it's probably best to leave 4 men in front and 4 men behind, so that the gun can't be taken out by a flank either.

They revert to T3 in melee, and the gun is hit automatically in the same, so they're super squishy when charged, but they're Guardsmen. What did you expect?

>>47699347

I can only make assertions from the experience I personally have had, and my points are, to me, valid across more than just marine lists. A brick in the center with pain inside is very similar to how I end up having to deal with eldar jedi council, or chaos greater daemons, or ork battlewagons full of nobs, or wraithguard spam, or bike spam, or FNP jump infantry, etc.

>>47699358
Itc's top tourneyfag in florida played deldar, he became a meme for about a week. Its mike Nguyen

>>47699469
>>47699467

Sort of a partial death cult, partial augmentation fetish thing where they consider interment an end-goal to strive from and a highest honour, rather than a terrible yet necessary fate?

>>47699484
But in almost all those cases you just listed the battle cannon does a better job than the other varients you insist are always better.

So now I'm confused.

>>47699406
Cheers for the advice,

dropped the vanq and the engiseer, took off some shitty upgrades and could afford another melta squad in a chimera and an earthshaker battery.

I hope this works at taking on the local space marine/eldar/necron meta.

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Does anyone know if the imperial guard start collecting box comes with multiple main guns of different types or just the battle cannon?

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is this a good product to get started into 40k?

>>47699425
I'm sorry Nurgle, but I'm seeing another God.

It's not you, it's me, I swear, you are totally sweet God, you are just not the right one.

Let's just be friends.

>>47699551
It comes with the main sprue. Battle Cannon, Vanquisher, Exterminator, and Eradicator.

The up-armored tanks is a different sprue. Yes this was a dumb question.

>>47699572
No. Unless you're only going to use one of them as an allied knight for either an IoM army, or Chaos army.

>>47699542

Keep in mind that when fighting necrons, you are not going to kill them to death. The better strategy is to hunker in cover behind aegis or in ruins while you focus down warrior squads with artillery to take away his obsec. You can't kill him quickly enough, but most necron lists won't kill you quickly enough, either. Then in last 2 turns flood the field with obsec units and make him lose to math.

>>47699572

You don't have the painting skills as a newbie to do such a large, complex model justice.

>>47699507
Well I personally wasn't going for augmentation fetishist. More survival fetishists. Surviving such massive wounds you need to be intered is seen as an accomplishment. But you don't cut off your own arm because you think the metal is better.

Though yours works too. Depends if you want to go more iron hand or more imperial fist.

>>47699572
Well if its what inspires you to get painting and playing Yes.

Doesn't seem ideal to me tho.

>>47699586
The most annoying necron lists don't have obsec.
And this changes if you play Maelstrom or partial Maelstrom.

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>>47699425
You do the same.

How is your reading of the Lectitio Divinitatus?

>>47697418
That's molten beam.

>Why did he roll on Pyromancy!?

>>47699572

Knights are good, but you are dropping a lot of money for knights of opposing factions. If you are ok with conversions or proxy to use them together then it's not a problem, but some people are bothered by that. Also, if you include those knights in your lists going forward they are going to dominate most of your games, as their points crowd out other units. You should be comfortable with using knights A LOT, otherwise they will be expensive paper weights or shelf decor.

>>47699585
> as an allied knight for either an IoM army, or Chaos army.

chaos space marines? or chaos demons?

>>47699727
Either.

>>47699572
Not really. All-Knight armies are kind of boring, and they lead to really weird games.

I'd suggest a start collecting box of a faction you like, then maybe the knight kit later when you have a larger army to ally them into.

>>47699585
Thanks I had purchased an old cadian detachment from ebay once and it only had the battle cannon. Which is why I asked, I didn't want to be jewed out of extra cannons.

>Two angels legions
>Two wolves legions
>Two guard legions
>Hands and fists
>Imperial and Emperor's

The Emperor wasn't named a god for his creativity, was he?

>>47699763
You know the Emperor didn't name any of the legions, except for the XVII legion, which was originally called the Imperial Heralds?

>>47699763
>Two Iron legions

>>47699787

Well somebody fucked up.

I expect this shit later on when they have several million chapters to keep track of, but at the start with 20?

>>47699763
>>47699802

>20 Alpha Legions

>>47699813
The Primarchs named the legions. And before the Primarchs were found, the legions either named themselves, or took the names they were given by their enemies.

Imperial Heralds -> Word Bearers
War Hounds -> World Eaters
Dusk Raiders -> Death Guard
Luna Wolves -> Sons of Horus -> Black Legion
Alpha Legion -> Alpha Legion

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Are Black Templars the best/coolest space marine chapter?

>>47699825

>Thinking there's only 20 Alpha Legions

>>47699893
Not anymore.

They've been nerfed too hard, Crusader Squads can't be used in formations, and GW nerfed their numbers to be canonically around 1300.

>>47699893
yes.

>>47699924
>GW nerfed their numbers to be canonically around 1300.
I want to kill myself

Hey, whichever anon was working on that CSM Warbands codex--I'd like a copy for a couple of friends. Could someone post it again?

>>47699946

They also made the total number of space marines in the galaxy about a million, because no sense of scale.

>>47700085
That isn't new

In early editions it was said there were a thousand chapters

If each chapter has their one thousand, that is a million

>>47700124

Doesn't work, the galaxy is too big a place for a million marines to have any impact.

And no, not no impact in the sense of "they're really rare and the majority of long serving guardsmen will never even see one" I mean, no fucking impact.

>>47700260
This is 40k. They take sci-fi authors have no sense of scale to a whole new level.

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>>47698374
>>47697609
>>47697312
Let me all tell you of the glory of the Psykana Division and Stormsword.

3 Commissars
1 Primaris Psyker
3 Wyrdvane Psykers

Commissars make the Wyrdvane's warp charges fire on 2+ and they just get removed from play for perils. Give that Stormsword prescience you have a 10" blast, S10, AP1 with rerolls that ignores cover. Meanwhile you can summon greater daemons multiple times because you only need to remove one model as a casualty.

>>47700260

>Doesn't work, the galaxy is too big a place for a million marines to have any impact.

It may work when they have only the Imperium to look after and not the entire Galaxy.

>>47700260
Remember how a couple thousand Space Marines killed literally billions of Guardsmen during the Horus Heresy?
One million Marines are fucking brutal

Since this thread is going pretty slow and someone actually started a "list specific" thread: Anyone play GorkaMorka?

I've got a fair amount of spare orks and throwing together two mobs for it seems like just the thing to actually motivate me to finishing them.

>also semi-temped to convert some Skitarii into Muties since they're basically the descendants of the tech-priests who survived Eternal Vigilence's crash landing.

>>47700374

Yes but that may have been them taking advantage of orbital bombartment and any number of other advantages they'd enjoy over the average Imperial Army force.

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>>47700260
it's almost like space marines don't give a fuck about the realistic size of the galaxy and kill aliens disproportionately well

if the lore was real which faction would rule the universe?

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>>47700404
less than three hundred marines can kill the ENTIRE MILITARY of a reasonably well defended planet in a few days

through straight up ground battles

>>47700404
Well now you're treading dangerous close to revealing that the focus on ground combat making no damn sense when precision orbital strikes exist.

>>47700404
IIRC it was mostly infantry vs. infantry, but I may be wrong.
Space Marines aren't for massive open field battles with the enemy though, that's the Guard's job, with their huge ass guns and trench warfare and whatnot.
Space Marines are like a scalpel. You send them where they will have the most impact, killing farseers, clearing space hulks, being the armored speerhead of an invasion shit like that.
Unless you're the Black Templars. Then you just pick a random sector on the galaxy map and carve a fucking corridor of carnage toward that pitiful fucking place.

>>47700431
>if the lore was real which faction would rule the universe?
>if

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>>47700431
I suspect that Khorne would be more of the God of Impotent Butthurt given these threads.

>>47700454
That's like saying >ground combat makes no sense when precision air strikes exist
Air support and orbital support are just that: support.
Short of effectively going Exterminatus on a planet, you will not take out all resistence or occupy it with orbital strikes alone.
Bunkers exist, people can hide, mask their heat signatures, etc.
Orbital superiority will however massively boost the combat prowess of a ground invasion force by being able to clear huge areas of foes, take out titan-tier war machines and demolish defensive structures and defense mechanisms.

>>47700439

That doesn't exactly list the numbers for said planetary militia unless I missed something.

>>47700523
That works for bit.... then you get Titans.

Cleaning out resistance and cities makes sense for infantry and such. But what does a Titan shoot at that an orbital strike doesn't. And why don't you just orbital strike the Titan.

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>>47696669
Daily reminder that The Emperor, Beloved by All, is a warp deity enthroned in a human body.

>>47700562
Ow saw you mentioned Titans. So one the same page.

>>47700454

When I said "other advantages" I also meant the Space Marine forces of that day counted various Imperial Army Regiments Titan Legions, Knight Houses and (if in Horus's Rebellion) darker things, all of which would massively tip the scale in favor of said Space Marines.

Also, lets not forget, the Space Marines don't always take a direct approach to defeating a foe.

Them defeating a million strong army could have easily been them destroying the hive or besieging it like the Death Korps of Krieg did that one city that refused to pay it's taxes.

>>47700535
Correct. Kethra's armies were not a militia, however. It's a proper planetary defence force backed up by orbital weapons platforms. Which the single battle barge of space marines killed basically to a man in a few days.

Like, the reporting Inquisitor compared them to Exterminatus. That's not really an exaggeration when you think about the logistics of a couple hundred dudes killing an entire planet's military in under a week, mano-a-mano.

This is also why marine chapters can butt heads with entire hive fleets and survive. Or seriously endanger entire craftworlds. They're just that mean.

>>47700562
I mean Titans are basically just about muh guns muh dick muh size.
But trying to justify their existence, you could say that orbital superiority only works until the enemy brings in a bigger fleet. Titans can stay on ground even if the fleet has to retreat, though it would probably be shot very promptly.
I guess in an all out war, you don't hold back any potential firepower? Meh

>>47700523

Are there any anti-orbital weapons? What about land-based ships/spaceboats capable of intercepting crafts in orbit and then return to the atmosphere?

>>47700643

>Implying they don't follow the Spartan example and just delete or dismiss any mention of allies/auxiliary forces while exaggerating the numbers of enemies.

>>47700643

>the logistics of a couple hundred dudes killing an entire planet's military in under a week, mano-a-mano.

Perhaps the military of said planet was far below usual strength? As odd as that would seem, I do recall it being said that the Imperium can nearly strip a world bear.

But then again, I have to remember that the Iron Hands supposedly killed a third of an entire sector with just their chapter, so I suppose destroying a planetary army wouldn't be nearly as difficult.

>>47700663
Yes. But those don't get too much mention typically. They're either a very small part of a larger navel battle or meant to shoot down landing craft.

I can't recall a single instance were the attacker was able to take out the enemy ships but was held out of orbit by planet side defenses. Well except the fucking moon.

>>47700690
>inquisitor writing a report to other inquisitors saying "yo why the fuck didn't you give me an assassin, this planet's totally fucked now"

>>47700709
Just put thoughts of realism to the side. They're an army of doomguys.

>>47700663
Anti-orbital weapons exist, but against a full-blown invasion, I don't know much they'd do, considering the fact that they probably wont be able to shoot a ship down through its void shields in one salvo and concentrated fire from a half dozen battlecruisers would disable the defense platform before a second one could be fired.
Without that kind of orbital firepower, you can just infilitrate the strategic points of interest, like a spaceport or defense array, buy sending a small team of Catachans or whatever on a stealthed landing ship, make them place a teleporter beacon and deep strike the entire first company of a Space Marine chapter decked out in terminator armor down on their shit and nothing will stand when the day is over.

>>47700663

In Mont'ka Tau surface batteries produced massive damage to several space vessels. It took several days to silence the majority. A few were protected by shields resistant to orbital bombardment while others hide behind stealth field waiting the moment to strike.

>>47700728

>Just put thoughts of realism to the side.

Well one of the battles where I recall Space Marines defeating a larger planetary force was a tank battle.

Most of the renegade defense forces units were Leman Russes, Malcadors and such that were no mach for the las-cannon armed predators.

File: klausmasterflex_BlackTemplar.jpg (148KB, 909x878px) Image search: [Google]

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You're in the cathedral and this guy slaps your gfs ass
What do you do

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>>47700874

>>47700922
Goodness those finger nails though.

>>47701035
In the Grimdarkness of the far future, there is no grooming.

>>47699287
>competitive 2500 point games

That sounds awful. All the cheese and then some.

How do you guys make yourselves start this hobby up, aside from not being poor as hell to begin with? I don't even know what paints I should get if I were to get my hands on a Star Collecting kit, or color schemes for that matter.
Plus, the nearest GW store is a half hour drive there and another back

>>47701322
Get a friend. Start A schedule.

>>47701375
I don't see how helpful that is. Then again, I think I may well be plain intimidated with how expensive it is to get in to.

Had a huge game against KDK and MonoKhorne Daemon allies. 3000pts with my Ravenwing but I debuted my Three fliers finally. Used them all as Dark Talons and gave them a second strike force so the auto arrived turn two with Outflank.

Probably the best match up to use them for as I was able to smother a gorepack in stasis and took out a gang of greyhounds with the other.

Overall it was a solid match though and I didn't expect his Lord on a juggernaut to put up a fight against my Interrogator Chaplin.

He almost won the mission with all the khorne flakes stuck in my tires.

>>47698061
that's all kinds of absurdist

>>47701279
We play 2000+ at my shop all the time so 3000 is pretty regular and I find it way less cut throat but that's because you can't justify unit spam as much and their is a wide variety of threats. If I want a competitive match those players stick around 1500-1850 and I swear it's so they can prowl noobs who can't field any larger. All the netlists are made in that point level.

>>47698099

high end prices & "units" =/= high end players

Can I use a formation in a decurion style list without using the whole thing? Can I use the deathwing redemption force but not use the Demi-Company?

>>47701648
What makes you think you can't?

>>47701322
The game is only expensive if you want lots of stuff fast and don't really spend time painting them yourself.

For a lot of people painting/converting stuff is the biggest part of the hobby, and trust me if you want to have a really nice looking army it can be really time consuming. So let's say you set yourself a monthly budget for the game $50usd (about the cost of a AAA videogame or even less) that will get you enough stuff to keep you busy for a few weekends, and if you're lazy you might even take longer than a month to assemble/paint them, just in time for you to get new models and assemble/paint them again. A lot of people don't evne paint their shit, they just glue them together and prime them and just play them like that.

If you're super ultra poor as fuck you can try to get some decent deal on ebay or other mini selling forums, get some poorly painted models and clean them, then paint them yourself again. If you're garbage tier poor but are somewhat decent with handicraft you can make terrain and sell it online, it won't net you much and you're probably bad at it but I have a guy in my store that does this along with painting comissions and he dedicates those earning to the hobby.

It's hard to start by yourself because you probably find it boring and uninteresting and too expensive, watch some battlereports from miniwargaming and if all that dice rolling and rules excite you go ahead and get some "start collecting!" from the army you like the most.

Color schemes are specified in the codex of each army, but you can make up your own if you don't like them. Honestly if you go any hobby shop and tell them you want to get into 40k they'll help you so you buy stuff from them, even though most online stores sell cheaper than them, so just get a few paints from them and get your minis online if you're on a tight budget.

>>47700439
> Implying you even need 300
Meanwhile in the raven guard or raptors, usually it only takes about 30 good marines, a few camo cloaks and suits of mark 6, and well placed stalker rounds to the entirety of the planet's ruling body. It'll take about... Two days? One to get into position, and one to synchronize all 30 of them for a massed assassination. The planet will know nothing, until one day it's entire government has been assassinated within the span of 5 minutes, and a regiment of imperial guard from another planet is taking over.

>>47701708
Battlescribe won't let me :(

>>47699534

So you are suggesting a battle cannon is effective against an AV 14 vehicle because it can hurt it on a 6? Or against terminators who just 2+ the wound away? Or against 8 wound daemons? Because no, they aren't.

>>47701752
The redemption force is right there in the formations category.

If your mean either of the strike forces then instead of formation or combined arms you set it for DA Deathwing Strikeforce

>>47701714
At the moment even just a Start Collecting box seems out of my depth, or even starting paint supplies. Though, this is admittedly going off just GW's website's prices. This is probably something I should consider more thoughroughly, myself.
And admittedly painting up my own army of custom dudes is a huge chunk of the appeal to me.