Pathfinder General /pfg/

Is the last thread still live? Or should I repost my question here?

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>>47690793
How does a grappling hook work? Had some conflicts with my last game.
Diagram
A: Grappling Hook catches on a lip
B: Grappling Hook jams its self on the facing getting stuck
C: Grappling Hook can work on an edge
1)
Let's ask the first question, does a grappling hook/arrow/bolt need a specific orientation or placement for it to work? Some wordings says target object or structure with out stating what form it is?
Example: Steadfast Grapple

If yes, we can try and answer the next questions, if the rest is moot.
2)
Next lets go with a normal Grappling Hook. I assume when you throw it, it has to catch a lip i.e. position A. But can a grappling hook be thrown and used like in C?

3)
Now Grappling Arrow/Bolt. Do they function as A? or do they function as B? My thinking is that because you are firing an object it has the force or strength to lodge itself. OR that you are only firing to get effect A cause throwing it is harder. I side on B cause 2 other objects(while magical) reference that it hits the smooth surface or whatever. Cornerstone Crossbow. It mentions "to anchor on corners and walls of structures". Another item is the Caver's Bolt. It says "chooses a solid surface within weapon range".

4)
Now if Grappling Arrows/Bolt do B is true, another question comes up. I read somewhere that removing a grappling arrow/bolt is a strength check vs the attack which hit the wall.
i.e. Ranged attack roll with a crossbow is 1d20+8 and I get an 18. That beats an AC of 5 to hit the target object/structure. Now to remove said arrow/bolt I need a strength check vs DC 18. Can anyone source me on this? I read it somewhere or maybe I was imagining things.

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Recruiting for an online, text-only Pathfinder game to be held over MapTool. The schedule will be decided on by the players, but the available time frames are:
Monday 10:00 P.M. GMT to Tuesday 11:30 A.M. GMT
Tuesday 10:00 P.M. GMT to Wednesday 11:30 A.M. GMT
Wednesday 10:00 P.M. GMT to Thursday 11:30 A.M. GMT
Thursday 10:00 P.M. GMT to Friday 11:30 A.M. GMT
Saturday 4:00 A.M. GMT to Saturday 10:00 A.M. GMT

This will be a combat-focused game (though not necessarily 100% combat-focused) wherein you invade Hell, battle legions of devils, and fight every unique devil on d20pfsrd.com. Asmodeus has gone missing, an extremely powerful angel has taken his place, and the angel has sent out a call challenging heroes to take the throne from him.

25 point buy. Roll for hit points or take the average, but you must decide beforehand. No Unchained rules. Third-party material (e.g. Dreamscarred Press) is looked upon leniently.

Characters are supposed to be CR 20 (yes, CR) and can be built from any combination of class levels, monster races (25 point buy applies, NOT the +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/–2 array), templates (e.g. Agile mythic template), mythic tiers, and PC/NPC wealth. CR must be calculated appropriately, exempting the point buy.

Skype contact username:
argetlampuppeh

>>47690824
OK follow up. I found where I read up that you need a strength check to remove a grappling hook. My question is, does this apply to the other grappling hooks? Are these "rules" specifically mentioned for the Grapple Launcher for the Experimental Gunsmith(Gunslinger) only?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/gnome/experimental-gunsmith-gunslinger-gnome

Dazzling Display + Shatter Defenses

Worth it?

>>47690717
Blink-back belt a shit.
At worst, anyone with at least five levels in Fighter (and, let's be honest here, dips into Fighter are good for a throwing build) can pick up Ricochet Toss at level 6-7. And before that level, you don't really need to retrieve thrown weapons - just throw a load of cheap shit.

Do monster cohort get +4 +4 +2 +2 0 -2 ability score adjustment (as monster with PC class level)?

Any suggestion for Pseudodragon cohort class? Maybe Unchained Rogue?

>>47690925
It just depends on what else you do. If those are all you do, no. But if you're a Thug Rogue with Equipment Trick (cloak) or have some other way to force it to go into Frighten status or get other benefits? Sure.

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>>47690968
mein neger

>>47690839
What gmt +0, +1, +3, ?

>>47691171
GMT is GMT 0

>>47690839
if you start at CR 20 wouldn't you be able to start at level 20 to begin with?

>>47691212
Yes, exactly.

>>47691222
then are you expected not to level up through the course of the game if you do? how is that handled?

>>47691241
Multiclassing, gaining templates, gaining mythic tiers (+1 per two tiers, rounded down, minimum +1), etc.

So.. I'm a level 7 character with Leadership feat.

This is the right stat for Pseudodragon cohort?

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=838913

What's the thoughts on Piercing Thunder?

I'm looking at making a Silver Crane/Piercing Thunder/Elemental Flux Knight-Chandler for an upcoming game I might be joining.

>>47691669

It's got some frighteningly fun and powerful maneuvers at 5th tier, but life is suffering before that.

For anyone who missed it, Lords of the Wild had an update yesterday. Changelog below

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FcMpsY7ancpaWiBpFhI_jlARL8p2OXZhaFxAjzJCyW4/edit

Added animal form size to the werewolf template
Added Greater Werewolf and Formless Master prestige classes
Werewolf requirement removed from Varsark
Size Shift renamed to Magnitude Shift
Text added to Rapid Shifting and Extra Shifting to clarify that it does not require that you be shifted
Tail added to Deathsting Shift
Chameleon Shift, Identity Shift, and Sensory Shift added
Temporary natural weapons created by Chimera Soul maneuvers now do damage as normal for their size and type

>>47691669
You`ll mostly ignore it until around level 9. Lucky for you, E.Flux and Silver Crane are both top-class, offering you tons of utilities and damage.

You`ll probably grab the level 3 E.Flux stance and stick to it anyways.

>>47692266
Lords of the Awakened Mages when?

>>47692322
I'd rather have a Lords of the Promethean Fire.

Was always my favorite gameline.

>>47692343
Does that make Path of War the de facto "Lords of the Vigil," with martial traditions as the equivalent of compacts/conspiracies?

I'm making a lion-man in a campaign where Path of War (Expanded) is not only allowed but encouraged.

Should I go with Warlord or Warder? Magnetic charm and majestic mane, or furious combat prowess and Certified Pride Protector?

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>>47690839

P.S. Heavy optimization is encouraged.

>>47692440
How does the cr thing work?

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>>47692466

20th-level PC with 20th-level PC WBL = CR 20

15th-level PC with 15th-level PC WBL and mythic tier 10 = CR 20

16th-level PC with 16-level NPC WBL and mythic tier 10 = CR 20

>>47690824

I know your question is more gameplay mechanics related and they work fine in the confines of a game but just to be 'THAT GUY', real world grappling hooks aren't used to climb walls or buildings like that because you have no idea what you have hooked and are putting your life in the hands of something not randomly breaking.

so in the sense of being a game, it could technically function as C if the hook were designed as such, but it would carry the exact same issues as A would in real life, stupidly high risk

I would assume the gun functions as A and if it did function as B it would be even more prone to failure as you have damaged the thing you are trying to put all your weight on

i am aware i didn't really answer any of your questions : ^ )

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So as a 3.5 Thri-Kreen what are some interesting ways to take advantage of my 4 arms and multi-attack?
Cavalier using 4 lances on the charge?
Dervish dancer getting twice the attacks on a full attack?
A long spear and short spear?
4 scimitars?
2 Greatswords?

>>47692585
>Cavalier using 4 lances on the charge?
>oh I get to play this new race with strange anatomy!
>let me show my DM why he should never allow this shit again!
Faggots like you are how we end up with endless humans with rubber foreheads.

>>47692585
>>47692812

Isn't a lance treated as a two-handed weapon regardless?

>>47692913
When mounted a lance counts as a one handed weapon actually

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>>47692812
Well ok guy, buddy, bro, man whatever you want to be. I'm just at the drawing board and I'm just throwing things out there that came to me at the top of my head, I actually haven't started working on this at all. Which is why I'm asking for other ideas since I wanted something exciting to try out but google just gets me optimized builds with the sole purpose of getting this highest numbers possible with tome of battle and sneak attacks. Do you have something more constructive you would like to add or are you just gonna be a negative nancy and leave me with the Cavalier with 4 lances idea, cause I'm more than open to listen to your ideas and opinions

>>47692919

>While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.

I'm not sure this means it's treated as a one-handed weapon for all intents and purposes or if you can just use it with one hand exclusively for this purpose

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>>47693000
I suppose it might be up to the DM, but I asked my own DM about this a while back cause I planning on making a Knight and he told me that while mounted it would count as a one handed weapon since I could use a shield in the off hand, or god forbid if I had 2 weapon fighting that using 2 lances would be possible. That's what my DM runs with, so I can't say for sure personally

>>47692287
Speaking of which, which disciplines are generally good compared to the others? I'm currently running with cursed razor/elemental flux/mithril current/riven hourglass, and that's been working out fine for me so far, but my DM has made it clear that I can sub out disciplines no problem as long as I can find someone willing to teach me (and this campaign has been pretty heavy on those so far).

I'm thinking of picking up Black Seraph when I can, and Cursed Razor is definitely staying due to fitting my character the best as far as flavor is concerned, but I'm not sure which of my other three to drop for Black Seraph, or if I should be using something different. What do you think? I'm using a dex build and scimitar, if that makes any difference.

>>47693181
Honestly?
Your current combo is really solid.
Riven definitely beats out black seraph.
If you have animus, so does Elemental Flux.
If you have a reliable method of free action sheathing, so does Mithral Current.

You don't really need to make the trade.
It does slightly depend on your class as well, of course.

>>47693181
Being fair here, you already have the three pretty much "best" disciplines. the only other ones I think you'd enjoy learning are Fool's Errand (because it has some really hilarious shenanigans in it) and Primal Fury (because of how much damage you'd deal.

Chimera Soul might be worth it if you want the stances.

As a Warder that wants more maneuvers and stances, should I repeatedly get Advanced Study or grab the Martial Training feat chain?

>>47693232
>>47693244
Huh, alright then. I didn't realize those three were considered to be so good. This is my first time even messing with disciplines. And yeah, I do have animus and the ability to free-action sheath. Those have been my bread and butter, and they're why my character has been so good in combat thus far.

If Black Seraph is significantly worse than those three, though, then I'll skip it. It's cool, but I'm not about to give up something that's already working better. What are some of the better maneuvers I should be on the lookout for?

Out of curiosity, how does Cursed Razor generally stack up? Like I said, that's staying no matter what for flavor reasons, but I'm curious to know how well it usually does.

What are some cheap magic items/good 3pp feats to beef up my character?
By "beef up" I mean more HP, temporary HP, DR, Resistances, that kind of thing. The ability to take damage and keep chugging along.
So far all I've got is my class features and a +4 CON belt.

Also - is there a magic item that grants Ferocity? I'd really like that.

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>>47693232
>mfw warder doesnt get the cool disciplines like elemental flux and shattered mirror
>mfw get sleeping goddess or piercing thunder instead

>>47693000
>>47693070

There is a faqs for it. Lance is still a two-handed weapon when you wield it with one hand. You even get x1.5 STR and attack with it.

>>47692919
Wrong. Check your fact again before posting.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/ricochet-shot-deed-grit

Is Ricochet Shot really worth it?

>>47693363
I really want to see Class templates that give Animus, since mystics are the only ones who can really use it and not shoot themselves in the foot for it.

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>>47693363
>mfw warder
>mfw sleeping goddess

>>47693333
Black Seraph isn't amazing - it's a damage dealing discipline, but it's more useful for evil characters because it lets you hit good ones harder. Primal fury has the same sort of damage against all enemies, instead.

Cursed Razor is very good, in that it's nonstandard attacks much of the time, especially the abilities that target stats. It's about on par with Black Seraph, but Black Seraph is more useful if you don't already have a direct damage discipline.

>>47692585
Only the first lance get extra damage.
If you don't have pounce, you can't even do it.

Dervish dancer doesn't work because you can't carry anything on your offhand, and all your other hand are offhand.

>>47693406
>Black Seraph isn't amazing
>Immunity piercing 100% lockdown with zero save or defence isn't amazing

Nigga what

>>47692585
There's a Ranger archetype, explicitly for four-armed races, focused around dual-wielding longbows.

>>47693363
>>47693388
fug i messed up meant to say eternal guardian
sleeping goddess is pretty cool

>>47693495
you talking shit about motherfucking EG?
i will fight you right here right now you little shit

>>47693406
Hmm, fair enough. My character is LN, a Hellknight in training. So less outright evil and more zealous and militaristic.

My DM even modified the Hellknight Commander prestige class to continue giving me initiator levels, in exchange for moving down in HD and getting 3/4 BaB progression instead of full. I'm certainly not complaining about the trade-off.

>>47693513
It's so boring compared to some of the other disciplines.
hey this area is under my protection vs hey look at me im shitting lightning out my mouth

>>47693555
I first read that as "shitting lighting into your mouth." I'd use that discipline in a heartbeat.

>>47693363
All the PoW:E disciplines in general except piercing thunder are cooler than the PoW ones.

It's pretty natural that the three new classes have access to cooler disciplines.
There's always Fiendbound Marauder/Ordained Defender. And Fool's Errand, too.

>>47693555
>actually using the "poor man's warder" counters
>ignoring the rest of the discipline
i bet you've never used fear the reaper to intimidate the BBEG into missing your helpless NPC ally
i bet you've never used binding fetters to teleport an escaping piece of shit back to you while cackling maniacally
i bet you've never used strike of the steadfast legion to keep a squad of level 1 militiamen alive when the GM intended to massacre them

yeah i'm sure your cherry blossom anime samurai is too much of a pussy for any of that

>>47693555
Anon have you even read Eternal Guardian all the way through
You're not a protector so much as a demonic jailer

>Fuck you can't escape me I'm teleporting to you
>Or if I don't feel like moving I'm teleporting you back to me
>Also if I smack you, you're now cursed with debilitating effects unless you get on your knees and beg
>And if you try and be sneaky and do anything else the penalties just get worse
>Also I'm scary

>>47693681
a proper mithral current user will always beat an eternal guardian user prove me wrong

>>47693741
I'm a dervish warder.
You can't beat me 1 on 1 no matter what.

That said,
>discipline based around killing enemies vs discipline based around defense and control
>in a 1 on 1 duel
Gee, I wonder who would win that. Damn, ya got me there!

>>47693717
I have teleporting around may be fun but the whole discipline revolves around oh hey im scary plus the fact that you can teleport with most of the new discs just doesn't make it as appealing.

>>47693717

It's a shitty discipline built around crowd control and debilitation on a class that does those two things as class features, and in fact has many strikes and stances in other disciplines that does it too.

Eternal Guardian is crap, CRAP.

Okay, here's a crazy plan.

My party, a level 4 wizard (me), a level 4 paladin and a level 4 monk have to steal the eye of an ancient deity from three wizards who nicked it from my character's master (a wizard of unknown level, at least 5 but probably at least 7 - the three wizards are probably about the same in level) in the first place. Said master is there to help too.

Trouble is, said wizards have built themselves a sort of trading post in a huge cave, which they rule with enough of an iron fist that drow and duergar actually sort of nonviolently trade with each other there. Part of the reason for that is the presence of the Iudex, some minion of the wizards that may or may not be human and gets teleported to anywhere in the cave when he is called to solve a dispute, which he usually does by killing the one he judges to be at fault with some devastating spell.

The trouble is not only the presence of the three wizards and this Iudex (if it is not just one of the wizards themselves) but also that they live in a tower in the corner of the cave that has absolutely no entrances. They come and leave by teleportation magic, which our characters have no access to, save for another ancient artifact they already have.

This artifact is a ring with three gems on it. Each of the gems can be taken out and left anywhere in the world and possibly even on other planes, and when a magical word is spoken by the wearer, unique to each gem, the wearer and all in direct or indirect physical contact with him and all their belongings are teleported to the location of the gem. After this the ring cannot be used for a couple of weeks.

(Cont.)

>>47693918
>Eternal Guardian is crap, CRAP.
Name another 2nd level counter as powerful as Fear the Reaper

I need a good shapeshifting build, race is gnome.

What should I play?

Been looking at Lunar Oracle.

>>47693919
The crazy plan I had is as follows - since the thee wizards (the Saru) lied to us about the circumstances in which they obtained the Eye in such a way that was meant to make us distrust my characters' master we might be able to pull off actually believing that shit. In that case, my character might be convinced to be let into the tower, possibly after some shenanigans like "revealing" that the wizard's master is actually hiding deeper in the caves while he's actually already left but left traces of his presence there. In that case my character might be able to take the Eye if he gets to touch it for long enough to yell the word while the rest of the party leaves on an urgent mission (which really is urgent enough that convincing them that that's not shady isn't the hard part in this plan).

The trouble is, my character has lied to the Saru already. When first contacted by his master hiding in the caves he hid this from his party members in fear that they believed the tales of the Saru and that my characters' judgement was clouded by his personal connection. So he lied that he spoke to one of the Saru instead - a lie that ended up backfiring when the party members passed that story on to another member of the Saru. We haven't spoken to the one my character claimed to have spoken to yet, but the story I've stitched up is shady at best.

Of course, the other party members know the true story now and are fine with all of it (though angry at my character for lying) but the lie to the Saru remains. So, even if I manage to get around that by claiming that it was my character's master with a magical disguise or something the Saru might still be distrusting, and their greed and sneaky cruelty is well-known. So I'm afraid that they might not only end up capturing my character, which is a risk I'm willing to take, but also obtain the ring my character needs to be wearing. (Cont.)

>>47693998
Something that isn't a gnome.

>>47694011
Too bad, it's already gnome.

>>47690738
Why would you search there when Archives of Nethys already fucking has it. Who made that? Why?

>>47693918
You kidding? That disc is super cool and super flavorful.

pfg, name your top five disciplines:

1. Sleeping Goddess
2. Fool's Errand
3. Mithral Current
4. Tempest Gale
5. Elemental Flux

>>47694006
So, my plan was to have the ring seared into the finger of my character and let the wound be healed by the paladin and either let the scars be nonexistent through immediate magical healing being applied or get masked in some way, depending on what the DM allows. In that way the ring can never be taken off in time for them to realize that it can only be taken off by cutting of my character's hand or finger and actually do that before he can wake up and say the word to teleport them - right in the middle of all his allies, of course.

Now, how stupid and dangerous is this plan? Is it even feasible at all? Should I just not go through with it? The Eye is an important artifact and could help us immensely but it is not critical to our core mission, but it is certainly in bad hands if it's with the Saru and our true enemies might catch wind of its location and come get it with enough manpower to tear their tower and cave apart, which would be really bad for us too. So what's the best course of action here?

>>47694041
I feel so unloved.

MFW no images on phone to show I'm joking. MFW there literally is no face for me to use.

>>47694076
Your disciplines aren't anime enough.

>>47694076
Hi Gareth.

>>47690738
What core class do you guys think is the best for a LG character who always functions as the first and last line of defense of the innocent people?

>>47694041
>name your top five disciplines:

1. Iron Tortoise
2. Silver Crane
3. Sleeping Goddess
4. Eternal Guardian
5. Riven Hourglass

Not in that order. In no order, in fact.

>>47694089
Cleric

>>47694041
1. Black Seraph
2. Scarlet Throne
3. Elemental Flux
4. Eternal Guardian
5. Tempest Gale

>>47694041
>Elemental Flux
>Silver Crane
>Riven Hourglass
>Solar Wind
>Broken Blade

>>47694089
Paladin with that one archetype that changes your smite to a defense buff

>>47694076
I didn't mean to hurt your feelings Gareth ;_; I just don't think eternal guardian is cool like the other disciplines.

>>47694111
What domains? I was thinking Abiuration Wizard.

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>>47694076
Sorry, but disciplines are ALL about what they do for my warsoul or mech's guns.

I believe in debuffing through superior firepower.

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>>47694041
>Mithral Current
>Thrashing Dragon
>Veiled Moon
>Scarlet Throne
>Riven Hourglass
>BONUS: Stalker is unironically my favorite PoW class
>I have never, EVER played in a group that allowed PoW, or any other DSP material

>>47694163
A fellow "first increment extends beyond the map" fan of a certain Silver Crane attack, huh?

A real treat after all those levels of "this only works on a melee hit"

Can you switch to a different PoW stance as an Immediate action? If not, how do I make it possible?

>>47694196
Swifts only.

Is there any way to get Smite Evil to scale from non-Paladin class levels?

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>>47690839
>MapTool
>Skype

How come primal disciple doesn't get any of the new disciplines?

>>47694271
>primal disciple
>gets the oldest disciplines
it's not rocket science anon

>>47694121
EG wasn't me.

Is there anything fundamentally wrong with taking Advanced Study basically every time a feat choice comes up?
Aside from taking 3 style feats, that's all I'm going for, I think.

>>47694404
Why did you guys limit the disciplines the old classes could get?

Has anyone ever toyed around with a "Wizard" type initiator homebrew?
I mean, someone who can learn an unholy shitload of maneuvers, unlike the other classes.
Maybe someone who can pick a whole new set of maneuvers or even disciplines if he does some ritual or whatever?
Something like that.

>>47694551
Grab Power Attack, only really worth it combat feat.

>>47694603
Shit, thanks for reminding me. I completely forgot about that.
I'm even a 2h build and everything.

...God, I hate how this takes up a feat slot.

>>47694596
DreamscarredPaizo please go and stay go

>>47694603
This guy knows what's up

>>47694551
I'd say mix in a few Extra Readied Maneuvers so you can use all those maneuvers you're learning

>>47694551
On the topic of feats what are some good feats to grab as a 2h power attacker?

>>47694657
Maybe that's a Mystic.

Could someone repost the Inner Sea Intrigue page with the training ability?

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>Silver Crane Feathers is really good
>Silver Crane Wing is fucking fantastic
>Silver Crane Style is utter trash

>>47694657
That's not a bad idea. Although, paying a feat for a maneuver won't be worth it until the later levels, I think. At least with Advanced Study I'm getting two or even a stance.

>>47694669
Power Attack

>>47694671
Warder actually

>>47694669
Power Attack, Furious Focus.

>>47694596
So, Aegis?

>>47693384
Probably not anon. Just get improved precise shot, or a seeking weapon.

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>there will never be a new system that's based on good PF 3pp without any bloat or paizo fuckery
>you will be stuck with PF until the heat death of the universe

>>47694089
>>47694120
Sacred Shield is indeed the shit. Yes you're not much on the offensive, but you slash damage against allies in half and give them a +4-9 AC bonus with a tower shield.

>>47694812
Didn't DSP guys promise their own d20 system at some point?
I remember Gareth mentioning it a couple times and I'm hyped as all shit.

>>47694951
They said they were making their own system. They also said it wouldn't be like Pathfinder, and didn't mention d20 at all.

>>47690839
Is MapTool free?

>>47694963
The further from PF, the better.
Also, any idea on WHEN?

Is there a trait that lets me get Wisdom to Intimidate?

>>47694951
>>47694963
>>47694972
Afaik it'll have literally nothing to do with PF.
Which includes all of their PF content.
Which is the main reason I'm even playing PF.
So that sucks.

>>47695039
Chill, bruh.
I trust DSP to not fuck up.

>>47694972
Also, do we know if it's going to be fantasy, or a different genre?

>>47695020
There's a few inquisitions that do that, but not a trait AFAIK.

>>47694972
When I finish the playtest adventure.

>>47695117
So, in 2-3 years?

Is Iron Tortoise's Burnished Shell worth a slot?
It seems a bit unreliable (I'm not using a tower shield, so my shield bonus isn't particularly huge. Right now I'd roll +7 with the maneuver.) and it seems like if the spell targets more creatures than just you, you can't use it.
If it used an ability bonus on top of the whole roll it'd be quite good, I think.
Thoughts?

How would you make a Halfling Filcher Hidden Blade Unchained Rogue?

>>47695124
You wound me.

>>47695161

The truth hurts.

Is there any way to use Autohypnosis with INT instead of WIS?

>>47695571
Yes
No
Maybe

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Hi, guys. A while back I posted about an E6 survival/faction war in a flying city. To make a long story short it was a disaster due to some cheating and some rage and we are starting over with some new players and way more explicit rules on personal conduct and integrity.

"No defiling corpses" has been added as a rule but necromancy doesn't count, so that's fine.

Anyway, same question as last time: you are trapped in an abandoned flying city now riddled with undead and traps and feral fauna, along with some members of your faction, who have Important Reasons to reclaim parts of the city or perform pieces of a ritual that put you at PvP odds with a couple other factions likewise disposed. The game is E6 and Path of War, Psionics, and Akashic Mysteries are all in.

Just surviving won't be too bad I hope; I found a dagger of ghost touch last time which was fucking scary by implication but at some point it's going to be necessary to engage the other groups on their terms or ours (preferably ours); our faction specifically needs some components from their warforged members (who may be PC or NPC) to repair the clockwork god at the heart of the city. That means murder.

The other players aren't the most cooperative so I'm leery about a support build. What would you guys pick for this kind of thing and why? What classes are strongest in an E6 environment? What else...oh, there are advanced firearms in the city, and generally gear won't be such an issue that I feel compelled to do Aegis or Soulknife. I DO feel like stealth should be a priority just to control engagements, but almost anyone can do that.

>>47694041
1. Veiled Moon
2. Shattered Mirror
3. Elemental Flux
4. Chimera Soul
5. Steel Serpent

>>47695589
I love a complete answer.

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>>47694061
Lmao you actually expected them to help and not masterbate over gareth?

>>47690738
How do I build a dwarf miner that fights with his pick and is this build viable at all (No third party material preferably core books only but all Paizo is allowed)

>>47695866
Thanks for helping, you dumb piece of shit.

>>47694061
I don't really understand the finer details, anon - why do you WANT this thing? Just to have it? - but it sounds like a bad plan, yeah. Pissing off three powerful wizards with some kind of Shrike-like unstoppable servitor who have thusfar not made themselves your actual enemies for the boon of just having a thing you won't have long after they murder you to take it back would seem...ill-advised.

I'd say leave well enough alone and try to get in their good graces again. Are any of them cute? Seduction works. Otherwise maybe see if they have some sidequests that need doing. The Saru sound like much better ALLIES than anything.

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>>47695999

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Hey, what would be a good name for a fantasyland geneva convention? I've got a bunch of ideas to that effect, but I'm complete ass at names.

>>47696045
The Fantasia accords?

>>47695927
If you're using PREFERABLY core books, it's pretty garbage, you shouldn't play anything that doesn't get 9th-level spells and expect to be viable longterm.

A magus...ugh, fuck, spellstrike benefits from high crit RANGE but not high crit MULTIPLIER. No magii then.

A slayer can wield basically whatever they want and still be solidly, what, low Tier 3? Or you could be an inquisitor of a mining god. Basically the pick is kind of a subpar weapon but it doesn't matter THAT much. Get a big two-handed pick, get Power Attack, play a class that is inherently good and you'll be fine. Anything that adds flat (numerical, non-dice) damage to your attacks is good because the x4 crit will multiplier it, but anything that needs you to crit IN THE FIRST PLACE is bad.

>>47695927
There was a pretty good dwarf magus archetype that can spellstrike through their pick

>>47695866
>Meanwhile, anon simultaneously masturbates to the fact he's calling out DSP fans for not helping while he also doesn't help

Anon I tried to help but your storytelling was a bit of a mess and I'm still not sure I can make heads or tails of your situation after reading it through

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>>47696090
And you can't stop me!

>>47695927
I had a player use Investigator once for it. He was the foreman of a mining crew, centering around dealing with traps and hazards first and foremost, while fighting with his pick when melee broke out. It worked pretty well, until he got killed by a lucky crit from a cave troll at 3rd level.

>>47696045
Just look at the city names in your setting and pick one, anon.

>>47694041
1. Sleeping Goddess
2. Black Seraph (especially on genuinely Good characters)
3. Shattered Mirror
4. Eternal Guardian
5. Silver Crane

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What are some good animals to look at for a cavalier?

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How are Unchained Rogues vs crb Rogues?

>>47696123
This seems like my best choice beyond "fighter with a pick not a sword"

>>47693333
Sorry to repeat the same question, but which maneuvers for Elemental Flux, Mithril Current, and Riven Hourglass should I look out for, in particular? Which ones would you guys recommend most for each?

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>>47696232
CRB rogues are worthless. Damage to the level they're doing is accomplished cheaper and easier by properly set up blaster mages, and everybody being capable of using skills (and the fact that trapfinding can be found /in a goddamn trait/) means they literally have no niche they fill.

Unchained Rogues aren't a huge amount better, but they natively get dex-to-damage, special stuff for the skills they want to focus on, and a variety of tricks and abilities other classes can't easily mimic. Unchained rogues are not good, but they're still a lot better than CRB rogues, and it was a necessary improvement to making them worthwhile.

>>47696268
Depends a whole lot on your class.

>>47696355
Mystic, using dexterity and a scimitar.

Will someone who has more experience DMing than me critique my encounter design?

pastebin.com/81fawnG8

This is designed for a party of three level 8s using 32 point buy: A Gnome Impossible Bloodline Sorceror, a Kobold Order of the Sword Cavalier, and a Human Alchemist (Chirurgeon) 2/Cleric (Magic and Travel Domain) 6

>>47696232

The unchained rogue is strictly better than the CRB rogue. There is virtually nothing the CRB Rogue can do that the Unchained Rogue can't, and the Unchained Rogue gets a number of straight upgrades over the core version.

Unlike the Monk, they didn't feel the need to take something away in return, which was nice.

>>47696494
That looks a bit too easy m8

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Is it possible to make viable character that mixes ranged and melee, PoW is welcome.

>>47696548
Trivially. For PoW, take a melee Finesse character and add Tempest Gale or a ranged disc (don't go all-in for ranged, the maneuvers will make you decent enough).

For psionics, be a psychic armory soulknife or a living legend and get the Wis/Int to attack and damage stuff.

>>47696532
I thought it might be, but I was trying to go for an encounter where the objective was more about protecting the crew than themselves, since the crew will get slaughtered by the Cleric and Ranger.

Do you have any suggestions on how to improve it?

>>47696602
Add something shooting at the ship from the island like a fireball wizard or a cannon and that should be fine

>>47696660
I may have been written into a corner with that. The party has been specifically remaining too high in the air to be targeted from the ground

>>47696722
Target them anyway lmao, plenty of metamagics extend range

>>47696722
wizards can also fly

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Has anyone played the 3pp Unchained Ninja? What tier would you say its in?

>>47696775
Not a bad idea. Enlarge Spell would probably not be something they're expecting, and they're flying high above sea level, not that high above the peak of the volcano I can put on the island.

>>47696794
Also true.

>>47696377
No one is answering because most of /pfg/ likes thinking about DSP but don't actually play any games, and while they have memetic knowledge of what's WRONG with Paizo there's actually less system knowledge here than there is at either the Paizo forums or the Reddit forums. If you need actual top-tier build assistance, go to GITP. /pfg/ is for bitching and waifus.

Mithril Current: Tidal Blade is a decent flurry, but it's not as good as Thrashing Dragon equivalents. Swift Current and...Rippling? Current let you deal high damage while flatfooting evasive enemies. It's important to note that that is a NO SAVE flatfoot, you just need to draw your sword. Iron Wave is good for starting a fight, and if you're using a silver weapon it's actually a fucking devastating boost to your next round strike. Vulnerability to silver is stupid-strong that way. Flowing Creek is one of the best early counters. Calm the Storm isn't a great counter when you get it, but it becomes great in the late-mid game. Following Wake is good but Riptide Blade isn't, can you see why? It's important to note that doing anything with Mithral Current as a mystic (ironically) requires Quick Draw, Improved Quick Draw, and Mixed Combat. Honestly I'd skip it as a focus, it's the Bushi discipline, no one else should be fucking with it as primary. If you use anything Perform (Dance), don't forget to take Agile Dancer as a trait.

Elemental Flux: Elemental Flux is honestly overtuned, but also it uses Spellcraft, which is weak for you. Thankfully it doesn't matter. Spark Strike, Lance of Power, Eldritch Shield, Raging Flux are primary picks. Elemental Strike has good statuses and no damage; Energy Jolt has damage and shitty statuses. The early stances are good. Elemental Flux Stance is much, much, much better. Degrade Resistance and Assay Resistance for Elemental Attunement (your class feature) are very good.

>>47690738
Level 1 Dwarf Fighter , 2 handed and medium armor (Kikko right now) what should I usemy 162 gp that I've got left over for?

>>47696836
Riven Hourglass: Distorted Clock is amazing if you have a buff caster, not otherwise. Minute Hand is good for 2h attackers, not for scimitar-users, because you want your boost slot to be something that adds damage. Better if your stance is doing that for you. Rapid Strike is okay because it's a strike. Temporal Burn is worth having. Really it's not great 2nd level and down.

Flickering Defense, Probability Twist, Riven Hourglass Stance, Temporal Fury, and Time Skitter are all GREAT. This is where the discipline comes alive.

That's all three up to 5th level initiating. You'll have to figure the rest out on your own, anon. Remember to put your counters as your auto-granted so you're never caught out defenseless and take Extra Granted Maneuver ASAP.

>>47695866
/pfg/ needs to fellate Gareth and the rest of the DSP crew as much as possible. The ass kissing never ends. I see people post nice homebrew here, then get ignored, then they apologize to Gareth for posting in the first place. It's pathetic.

I have a player doing an Unchained Rogue and we need help optimizing it. I don't know shit about Rogues, Unchained or otherwise, so any advice at all would be helpful.

As a caveat, one of the party members is a Sylvan Bloodline Sorcerer with Boon Companion, which is the highest mark of tier level in the group's composition.

>>47696775
>>47696794
So to bump the CR to 13, I could add a 10th level Evoker or Sorcerer (for more spells per day) made entirely for long-range blasting. The question now is how would they deal with this?

>>47696959
There's a fundamental disconnect between "3pp" and "homebrew" that people have, for some reason.

>3pp does something it's great, my DM will allow it
>random homebrew? doesn't count as real

Fucking awful. I'm considering just publishing my shit to get eyes on it or something.

>>47696959
I'm sure most people don't want to look at homebrew of varying quality by unknown authors with unknown views on the balance in game. I certainly have better things to do with my time.

>>47696979
Give the helmsman rolls to dodge the magic blasts and (if they have any) let them drop sandbags and junk on him

>>47696990
They don't have to apologize for posting their homebrew. They don't answer to daddy Gareth, nor is Gareth the authority of /pfg/ deserving non-stop ass kissing.

>>47697016
When did people apologize to Gareth for posting their homebrew? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just wondering the context.

>>47697016
Nor do I want to be. I'm a guest here.

>>47697016
That would be me.

>>47697016
I never said they did, I didn't even bring up Gareth. And I want a link to that post you're talking about, because there's no reason to apologize and I feel you're taking things out of context just to be a jerk and cause issues.

>>47697033
>>47697031

Cover your butts. /pfg/ is watching.

>>47697048
What's your build? Conjurer wizard or school savant arcanist?

>>47696996
I love the idea of the helmsman getting rolls to dodge. It would give him something to do other than immediately die if an enemy gets near him.

>>47697054
3.p transmuter

Zodars, yo

>>47697069
>not omniscifier
c u c k

>>47697081
>implying that the masochism loop isn't trivial for any wizard who feels like it

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So I don't really "like" Pathfinder so much as I am able to enjoy it, and I feel like it might scratch an itch for me, but I really only like it under certain conditions. I feel that about around level 5 to 7 is the sweet spot, but all the stats feel huge and there are still a bunch of cool things that you'll never have because they're capstone abilities.

So can people who are more knowledgeable about Pathfinder tell me how terrible this "fix" would be?

1: Get rid of levels and classes (and races)
2: Give out character creation points that can be spent on Feats, Abilities, Traits, Spells, and Skills (maybe money) at an appropriate cost
3: Allow Class Features as Feats (Revelation and Rage are Feats; New Revelation and New Rage Power require them)
4: Ignore or consolidate Feats or requirements as necessary ("Requires Weapon Focus" or a minimum BAB; "Improved X" and "Greater Improved X")
5: Everyone has Con+6 Health Points (Toughness is a thing)
6: Everyone gains CP that can then be spent to buy Feats, Abilities, Traits, Spells, and Skills, with GM approval

I'm not entirely sure how to handle certain casting styles, I'll admit. Maybe have "new Spells Per Day" be a Feat, or otherwise just treat all magic users as being the type that can cast any spell they know, but can only know a certain number of spells. It does certainly cut down on the bookkeeping when you don't have "I pray to my God and he grants me spells from three different books, hope you take notes".

Although it really does get to the point where Mutants & Masterminds might be the better option...
Mostly I don't because the health is so cinematic. I should look over the Warriors & Warlocks book again.

>>47697099
So basically Shadowrun et al. skinned as Pathfinder. The only thing I really object to is getting rid of races. Why are you even doing that, do you hate not being human?

Really, those modifications are drastic enough that I'd recommend modifying a system you do like to incorporate the elements of Pathfinder that you want.

>>47697099
At this point go play something else.
You WILL be happier that way.

>>47697029
One guy did because he explicitly asked Gareth to check it out recently when it's been made clear that Gareth doesn't have time for that right now.

>>47695927
>>47696064
One handed picks are pretty much the optimal weapon for Throat Slicer due to the x4 multiplier. Could build something around that.

>>47695682
Bump?

>>47696836
>>47696921
Awesome, thanks, anon. What would you recommend replacing Mithril Tide with if it's not as good for me? Or should I keep it anyway? I do have a silver weapon, so iron wave had been great so far.

>>47697202
>Throat Slicer
Hoooly shit, what the fuck? PINNED?

Constrictor snake animal companions have a base strength of 15, get the +8 upgrade to Large at level 4, and have the grab and constrict native abilities. Now, their damage is shit - 1d4, can't fix that even with size boosting - and they're mentally retarded at Int 1 because fuck you if you like snakes I guess, but I always thought the grab was pretty cool.

What are the requirements for Throat Sl-oh jesus christ just BAB +1. How does this not constantly come up? Human Ranger with eye for talent for an Int 3 constrictor, spend its first ability modifier on rounding out Strength, be an Ambush Hunter, spend its third feat on the constricting stance from Steel Serpent, pin and coup de grace every fucking thing you see.

>>47697044
Then how was your post relevant to mine? Why did you quote me at all? Obviously because you were defending Gareth because you felt he was being attacked but you missed the point. I don't care if people don't want to read other people's homebrew, but if you are posting homebrew and then apologizing for it that's just pathetic and the polar opposite of what /pfg/ should be doing. There is no reason anyone here should try to filter their ideas through the DSP people and there's no reason we should be treating them like the lords of /pfg/. It's not even going to help DSP if you're too busy kissing asses to tell them what you think.

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/47480679/#47481176

Here's the post I was thinking of. Awfully defensive on Gareth's behalf, aren't you? I'm not doing this to be a jerk, I'm doing it because the /pfg/ I used to love reeks of cock breath. Just look through the archives at /pfg/ and you'll see what I mean when I talk about kowtowing and ass-kissing.

>>47697099
Have you tried playing E6?

>>47696987
3pp implies a bare minimum level of competence an care about what you're doing.
It has a higher floor than homebrew.

>>47697156
I remember that, it's because that guy asked Gareth for like three threads in a row and kept getting told 'not right now' until finally being told 'not for a while so really stop asking every time'

>>47697272
Man, you're one salty fucker that people here actually can communicate with devs, enjoy their company, and enjoy their products. If being a decent person to people makes it seem like we're treating them like lords then you have issues.

>>47697137
Shadowrun has worse mechanics than Pathfinder, though. But yes, that sort of character creation. It's honestly not THAT dramatic to me, since it primarily reworks character creation and growth, but not the actual play, which is what I'd want in tact. I thought I'd hate it, especially after some bad 3.5 experiences, but the actual play wasn't so bad. Not what I usually go for, but it had good gamefeel. Then again, that was in person, and if I used this wacky idea, it would be online, so the physical rolling of dice would be lost. Iunno, though. It's one of those things I'd like to at least try, but at the same time like so many other homebrew, it would require me to approve whatever wacky ideas my players came up with (like my idea for allowing Disciplines/Contracts/Spells/Gifts/Whatever to be bought in WoD as a Cruac style 5 dot trait). Especially when it comes to Feats with prereqs it'd be very "let's merge these two" or "ignore this prereq but take this one".

>The only thing I really object to is getting rid of races. Why are you even doing that, do you hate not being human?
Only in some cases. I don't mind traditional races like Elves/Dwarves/Orcs/Halflings/etc, but I hate things like Goblins and ratfolk and so on.
Mostly I just hate race-as-template. I hate it in Shadowrun, too, even though most of what I hate about Shadowrun is in the actual gameplay and metaplot. I don't like "you're an Elf, so +1 to this, -1 to that". If you want to be an elf, just say you're an elf. If you want to be able to see in the dark, buy "Can See in the Dark". And the fact that Shadowrun makes races bought with karma? Even dumber.

>>47697143
Probably
I'd rather play this than run it, anyway. Mostly, I just hate how restrictive character creation systems like Pathfinder's are. In some cases, the only meaningful choice you make is which class you picked.

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So how do we unfuck Called shots? Currently they rely on Crit fishing and HURR, MINIMUM 50 DAMAGE to do any actually decent effects for your god damn -10 to hit the chuggerfucking cunt of an enemy.

>>47696987
>3pp does something it's great, my DM will allow it
If only. Some of us have to spend a great deal of effort convincing our GMs to allow any 3pp at all, and that's when the GM doesn't stick their fingers into their ears and start humming loudly at the first mention.

>>47697222
I think it's okay for the occasional counter and the "Wave" series since if you're at range it's okay to sheathe/draw (if you have Quick Draw) so it doesn't necessarily need trading, but in general...

Veiled Moon is arguably the best Discipline or the highest "tier" Discipline. It gets you teleports, stealth action, you can tell flying and incorporeal foes to fuck off, and knocking people incorporeal is really annoying for them. But you already have it!

What don't mystics have...oh, Scarlet Throne will go well with a one-handed scimitar build. Wisdom synergy and solid stuff all across. It's not as strong as Elemental Flux - few things are - but it's another of those "hard to go wrong" disciplines. Dazing Attack is great, the damage-multiplying strikes are good, and the accuracy/damage combination boosts are just rock-solid choices.

If you take Weapon Group Adaptation to make scimitars count for every Discipline, Broken Blade becomes, as it usually is, broken. Very, very, very strong abilities throughout. Steel Flurry Strike is the obvious offender, it might as well be an AC-targeted death effect for all the chance anything of less than twice your CR has at walking away. Maybe restrain yourself from this as a choice.

Sleeping Goddess is strange and not like other Disciplines - it's basically a copy-paste of Robert Vance's 3.5 ToB homebrew used with permission and given some Pathfinder/DSP polish, also for some reason THEY CUT ALL THE COOL SOULKNIFE STUFF - but that's what makes it good to have, that weirdness. And there's a feat for converting animus to power points. That's pretty animus-heavy on the already animus-heavy Mystic - it's honestly better for zealots stealing Elemental Flux and using Tap Animus Harmony-Shattering Strike is strong, Unbroken Stride scales well, Mind-Revealing Strike is fun, Twofold Assault is excellent, Chains of Doubt and Inexorable Embrace of Sleep are both very strong.

>>47697384
>I don't like "you're an Elf, so +1 to this, -1 to that". If you want to be an elf, just say you're an elf. If you want to be able to see in the dark, buy "Can See in the Dark".
Fair enough.

>>47697404
Accept that Called Shots, although an interesting idea, are too shitty to be salvaged and not important enough to care about, then move on.

Alternatively, change called shots so that it's "If you call X and beat enemy AC by Y or more, Z happens", rather than "When you call X, you get -Y to hit, and if you hit Z happens" so that missing a called shot doesn't shit all over your entire swing.

>>47697524
To be clear, make it a rider on a normal attack that can hit or miss independently of the actual attack.

>>47697328
Isn't that the D&D clone that's only levels 1-6?
I haven't. Like I mentioned, not actually a huge fan, but I've got a bit of an itch that'll likely go unscratched unless I go with my friend to PFS again.

Also, I meant more that level 5 or so is where the game starts feeling interesting instead of painful, but at the same time, you don't get your cool powers. But by the time you get those cool powers, the game suffers from stat bloat. I want level 15 class features with level 5 rolls.

>>47696987
>>47697464
Never run a Pathfinder game outside of PFS, but I think the reason is that a lot of third party material at least has the air of being semi-official or at least semi-professional. Random homebrew on the other hand tends to not have as much care put into it, and tends to be players just grabbing what gives them exactly what they want to be the strongest. You put more effort into making something good when you want to sell it.
Personally, I wouldn't really allow homebrew because I'm lazy and don't want to do homework to think of ways it's lacking or broken, although I get that Pathfinder is already considered broken and lacking.

>>47697518
Awesome. I'm going to write all this down so I don't forget it. Thanks so much!

>>47697524
>Accept that Called Shots, although an interesting idea, are too shitty to be salvaged and not important enough to care about, then move on.
So, wait a minute, maybe I'm out of the loop, but are called shots the same thing as targeting parts of a creature's body? Because GURPS and TRoS use that, and people seem to like those.

I think maybe called shots just don't make any sense with a heavily D&D derived system. It already uses too much abstraction to make something that precise make sense.

>>47697582
Pretty much.

>>47697357
Being decent to a person doesn't mean giving them special attention in /pfg/, inviting them into your game chat, or seeking out said person to filter your ideas.

>>47694596
My homebrew vigilante archetype is basically that.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SeF1EF2NUNMiVRu2ITpuNDZzwyI14ahXTKFiBP97Yy0/edit?usp=docslist_api

How do I, as a PC, shove my gender-swap fetish into everyone's faces, while also playing it for comedy?

>>47697618
.../What/ game chat?

>>47697652
I don't suppose you would consider not shoving your fetish into people's faces like a reasonable human being?

>>47697618
>Seeking out experienced people for feedback is essentially worshiping their cock.

>>47697652
Play a character who is genderbent, and play it for comedy. Preferably without shoving it into peoples' faces.

That or play with a group that is fine with someone magical realming.

Speaking as someone who plays genderswapped characters when they can.

>>47697582
Yeah. Trouble is that in PF, called shots have different effects based on whether you hit normally, scored a critical hit, or dealt massive damage (i.e. 50 or half the opponent's total HP, whichever's higher). Most of the normal effects don't really do too much, forcing you to either rely on crits, which can't be controlled outside the Cyclops Helm, or dealing so much damage that your opponent is making a Fort save against death anyway.

>>47697676
Depends on the kind of "experienced" we're talking about.

>>47697668
I think they mean QANON's ryuutama game chat which then turned into #pfg which is open invite for everyone

>>47697695
Oh, shoot. You're right.

>>47697618
Speaking of experienced people can you help me figure out how to shove this stick further up my ass. You seem to be quite adept at dealing with it.

>>47697652
If you really must know, use a greater hat of disguise. It gives you alter self at will, which doesn't specify that you have to be the same sex as your original self.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/hat-of-disguise

Put ranks into Disguise, get the item, make the character a comedian.

>>47697676
There's a whole group of experienced people in this thread besides the DSP crew.

>>47697668
It was fluffy trails.

>>47694041
1Fool's Errand
2 Riven Hourglass
3 Eternal Guardian
4 Shattered Mirror
5 Sleeping Goddess

>>47697735
Everyone was invited to that though.

>>47697143
This right here. Just head over to the Symbaroum thread and get comfy.

>>47696548
Fool's Errand anything, it lets you move, melee, and ranged attack with its maneuvers.

>>47697562
That's sort of how it works. You stop leveling, but continue to accrue feats every 5k exp. Also, some class features are available as feats or as special capstones, depending on which ruleset you use. It keeps things kind of grounded.

>>47697751
Well at one point it was a game chat for Ryuutama. Then for some reason it became "ask the DSP people questions and ditch the game".

>>47697802
And then someone asked for it to stay ryuutama, and another room was created. That had nothing to do with DSP but from people from this board coming in.

>>47697802
>ryuutama
Dragon testicles?

>>47696811
Yes, High 4th

>>47697683
>Start out as a female adventurer
>Class and race don't matter
>Said adventurer buys and/or uses any magical or cursed item on herself without care
>Story is that she was a man but got genderbent by something
This is perfect

>>47697833
Pretty much. Find a decent reason in-setting for it. "They're in disguise, and what better disguise could they have" is another decent one.

>>47697823
Dragonball.

Dragon egg

>>47697861
yo bro, did you forget to take off your name from another thread?

>>47697735
Did you give feedback one of the first few times Illusory Curtain was posted, before they specifically asked DSP about it?

>>47697802
Given I'm playing in that game actively, you're full of shit. Fluffy Trails is alive and well.

Admittedly, the scheduling has been an issue...

>>47697877
Nah, read the thread to find out why he has the name, faggot.

>>47697877
no I'm just full of shit

>>47697795
Note that you're forced into meleeing with most of the mixed maneuvers (weapon + unarmed).

>>47697796
Oh, neat. I'll check that out. Is it this one?
http://esix.pbworks.com/f/E6v041.pdf

>>47697877
>Caring about names

>>47697966
That's the one.

>>47697802
The Ryuutama game's still going on though? And the #pfg IRC is still active pretty much all the time.

Why E6 instead of E8? BAB levels are at a weird +6/+1, +4.5 and +3 arrangement, making the rounded-down medium BAB suck very nearly as much as Half instead of a truer middle ground.

>>47697949
>forced into melee

Eh, not quite. Expression lets you do some ranged unarmed attacks, and if you really want your range you can just not take the unarmed strikes (or stomp the ground if your GM is going to force you to look stupid)

>>47698006
This kind of just seems like a more detailed version of what I was going for, but without ditching classes, or ditching levels entirely. I also can really only *assume* they mean 3.5 as opposed to Pathfinder? Or for all I know they could mean 4e. (And I do wonder how my idea would work for 4e). Not really seeing a date on here, and they just keep saying "the most popular roleplaying game". But I'm probably thinking too much about it, so I just assume specifically 3.5
Still, good place for me to start.

>>47698132
E6 was written to put you at the "sweet spot" of 3.5, where builds tend to come online, but before casters got their more game-breaking and setting warping spells at 4ths and beyond.

>>47698132
>the rounded-down medium BAB suck very nearly as much as Half instead of a truer middle ground.
good

>>47698132
3rd level spells vs. 4th. The original authors considered 4th level spells to be game changers and they give access to spells such as planar ally and dimension door.

So what's the best single manuver set from PoW for someone that wants to wield
>A staff (Both as a double headed and using one end in one hand, varying)
>A dagger/short sword
And when shit really hits the fan
>Natural weapons

>>47698219
I'm not sure about specific sets, but I'd recommend looking into Thrashing Dragon for ideas

Have a genderbent character make genderbender related puns.

>>47695682
Last bump, I promise.

>>47698219
>staff
Thrashing Dragon, see also Flick of the Wrist. Works whichever way you're using it (doesn't specify you need the second attack to be offhand) and scales well forever. Remember that if you're in a Piercing Thunder stance (which I believe counts staffs as in-Discipline) you can pick up unattended weapons as a free action per the discipline's special rules.

>a dagger/short sword
Veiled Moon. Play Dishonored in Pathfinder.

>Natural weapons
Chimera Soul, from the Lords of the Wild playtest. Thrashing Dragon is a close second, and Primal Fury is a close third.

>>47698298
You're not me. Fuck off.

>>47698331
Arrr, and ye not be me neither! Shove off, a'fore I keelhaul ye!

>>47698351
I have freedom of movement.

>>47698369
I LITERALLY CANNOT STOP SUCKING DICKS

>>47698380
We know. You didn't notice the guy above you typing?

>>47698369
I be havin' me the Arcane Grip feat and Kinetic Tether, I'll keelhaul ye meself if I have to!

>>47698380
>implying i dont suck even more cock
top lep

>>47698395
git gud

>>47698419
Your tonguework needs improvement.

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Aaaand there are two buildposters. What the hell did I wake up to?

Game starts in an hour-and-a-half. Shit's goin' down.

Mama mia that's a lots'a shitposting

>>47698443
>two
Optimistic, aren't you. Best of luck with your game.

>>47694041
Thank you for this, by the way. I've been tallying up the votes with weight according to placement, and Sleeping Goddess is on top for now. Primal Fury, Unquiet Grave, and Golden Lion sit with zero.

I can put up the full spreadsheet if anyone wants to see it, but what I'm more interested in is WHY. What do people love or hate about the disciplines? What makes Goddess, Guardian, Flux, and Current (in that order) the top of the heap?

I'm the team statistician, so I like being able to quantify things.

Will the real BUILDPOSTER please stand up?

>>47698552
Ok

>>47698552
I'm BUILDPOSTER!

>>47698552
Right here.

>>47698552
ye

>>47695999
>>47696090
Sorry for poorly explaining, I thought of this plan like half an hour before the session - I never even saw your replies.

Anyway, I did explain very poorly, so allow me to clarify:
- The Saru, or at least the one that came to the 'rescue' of m/c's master only to basically leave him there and steal the Eye, are definitely enemies, because see above.
- The Eye is the eye of Loxos, an ancient celestial(?) elephant who created all conjuration magic. Its ability is to 'suck in' the souls of living beings and place them back again. This item was originally in possession of a large cult of yuan-ti who also had m/c's master captive to order him to figure out if the thing could be used to revive their god Squa, a creature similar to Loxos but a snake instead and the godfather of Necromancy. The problem is that all eight of the deities of magic travel around the eight worlds of the material plane, and summoning him now that his age is almost at an end would not only upset the balance but also give rise to a situation where there are two evil deities in our world at the same time - the next scheduled for arrival is Art, the spider deity of Illusion.

The reason why it isn't utterly crucial to destroy said eye or keep it out of the hands of the yuan-ti is because it seems to be their backup plan - their main plan involves gathering all artifacts from Squa similar to the Eye and incidentally also the ring, which are Loxos' artifacts. They believe that this will either grant them access to some great power that'll allow them to resurrect their god or that the act itself will do that - it's documented already that these artifacts get stronger the more of the same kind are brought in proximity.

Still, it can't be entrusted to the Saru either, since they are only aiming for power and nothing else. They're bound to fuck up something. Also, we might be able to visit the Celestial plane and get something setup there to trap Squa's soul, somehow.

>>47698539

Why the Golden Lion disdain? It seems really solid.. maybe people just hate being a support melee..

>>47698539
I'd like to see why, myself.

My favorites are:

1) Fool's Errand
2) Mithral Current
3) Elemental Flux
4) Shattered Mirror
5) Riven Hourglass

>>47694041
Oh, forgot about this.

1. Golden Lion
2. Fool's Errand
3. Sleeping Goddess
4. Shattered Mirror
5. Eternal Guardian

>>47698539
Primal has no votes because it's known to be overpowered and in-need of nerfs.
Goddess is popular because it's plenty-anime and has a good collection of both self-buffs and debuffs. Mithral Current lets weaker weapons make use of quick-draw, and Elemental Flux is just plain amazing.

>>47698539
People like eternal guardian?

>>47698587
From what I've heard it's because it mainly supports melee combatants? If that's the case then it's a just a small portion of what it could help boost a lot of the time, making it very party dependent.

>>47698587
That's actually one of the reasons I'm asking. We are always looking critically at our past in order to improve our future, so details matter

>>47698587
Eh, honestly it feels like the Warlord/Warder/Zealot's features already do enough, and GL's stuff appears poor in comparison. And a lot of maneuvers lose the values if there's 0/1 other melee damage damage dealers in the party.
Unquiet Grave has less exposure and it's more thematic than functional. Fury is overtuned and boring.

>>47698579
But it's a moot point anyway, as what ended up happening is that the Iudex showed up to settle some unrelated dispute, left again, two members of the party spectacularly failed their move silently checks to follow him to the teleportation circle and were stupid enough to think that nodding at him would somehow be interpreted as a nice gesture.

So yeah, we got into a fight and miraculously managed to actually take him down before reinforcements could arrive and discovered that the Iudex was actually one of the Saru - and then another of the Saru showed up right after, also dressed as Iudex. So good news, we have less opponents, bad news, we're pretty much in an all out war and things are not looking great for us. This is where the session ended, too, right when the second Saru appeared as Iudex.

On the plus side, I'm pretty sure that this whole ordeal netted me enough experience to get to level 5!

>>47698587
It sounds great if you're an all melee party and always clumped together. Otherwise it gets worse quickly. Ranged characters and casters don't give a fuck about a bunch of Golden Lion's stuff.

>>47698624
Speaking as someone who is a fan of Golden Lion, a lot of the problem with using it is that its abilities, while good, work best when you have a heavily melee-oriented party. You need at LEAST one other frontline striker to really get your money's worth.

This in a game where 'melee frontliner' has been heavily disincentivized for a lot of folks.

>>47698539
Elemental Flux is strong, varied, and not fucked against a single element immunity

Riven Hourglass offers some real power if you're willing to stick with it long enough, giving haste (which normally we're completely caster-dependent on) and eventually an incredibly versatile top stance (a free standard isn't something we get anywhere else).

Golden Lion is almost entirely Melee only. Not only that but it also requires your friends to all be Melee Only. If everyone's Melee it's a teamwork beast, but every non-melee character in the party directly impacts its value, and if the user himself isn't one, he won't take it in the first place.

Solar Wind (and its other element varieties) is mostly damage damage damage, and tends to have weak effects stuck behind easy-saves. So mostly it's used to add damage to your damage. It does okay for this, if you're ranged and don't already have E.Flux.

Silver Crane has some annoying melee-focus, and doesn't offer quite the utility that Elemental Flux does, but DOES turn you into a poor man's paladin on its own, and offers a source of heals - even if not very strong ones usually, and some unique abilities, as well as the best ranged AoE in all of Path of War.

Unquit Grave is undead, and uh, well personally my only interest in undead is their XP and loot values. Especially if they're the sparkly kind. You know what's great? Silver Crane. You know what someone who thinks Silver Crane is great probably wants to use it on? .... yeah.

>>47698539

1.) Broken Blade
2.) Veiled Moon
3.) Mithral Current
4.) Golden Lion
5.) Silver Crane/Black Seraph

Haven't used Riven Hourglass enough yet to make a judgment call. Veiled Moon would be lower because at low levels I feel like it pretty doe in terms of choices but after 3+ level maneuvers it really picks up in a way I love.

>>47698587
>>47698539

Personally, I like Golden Lion. It's never my primary discipline, but both initiators I've played have made good use of it. In terms of my top five, I'd have to say

1) Scarlet Throne (I really like fencers and swashbucklers, and ST makes them more viable)
2) Silver Crane (Solid mix of melee and ranged abilities, plus some really solid utility like Eyes of the Crane and the flight one I can't remember right now)
3) Mithral Current (It's basically what I pictured Diamond Mind being when I first read ToB, and I like seeing a Quick Draw discipline. My one wish is to see a crossover feat with Tempest Gale for a quick draw gunslinger)
4) Golden Lion (Like I said, always a solid backup disc. Warning Roar has saved every one of my Bushi's allies at least once, and Hunting Party is still my most damaging maneuver at 6th level, given the Dragon Style Str-monk in the group)
5) Riven Hourglass (I really like time-based effects, but I haven't really gotten a chance to play around with it)

>>47698695
Riven's okay on its debuffs, not great. It adds small amounts of damage, usually you don't want it for that but it's there if nothing better to do. It has excellent counters however, and its final stance is amazing.

Worth it if you'll go high level, otherwise pretty meh.

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>>47698539
I haven't tossed in my two cents yet, but

1. Golden Lion: I dig a lot of ability sets that apply aid and set up coordination. But as others have stated prior, it's largely melee-focused and doesn't have as much to offer ranged party members. Still solid, I think.

2. Fool's Errand: It offers battlefield control while also being just plain silly.

3. Silver Crane: It provides a lot of Paladin-esque abilities without as many draw-backs to being a Paladin.

4. Elemental Flux: It gives that Gishy flavor and access to elemental-based damage in addition to other neat little bonuses, like fast healing, flight, etc.

5. Primal Fury: Though it does have a little bit of an early game rocket tag, it gives a little more for those time when you just want to RIP AND TEAR. I also found it especially handy with maneuvers that ignore Hardness; shit's a life saver if you and your party get buried under debris.

>>47698539
My top five favorites?
1 Veiled Moon
2 Silver Crane
3 Shattered Mirror
4 Elemental Flux
5 Tempest Gale

>>47698715

On my current vampire character (Also has mithral Current, broken blade and veiled moon..) I am using Riven Hourglass for counters and eventually haste, although I'm not sure that haste will benefit me as much seeing as I am using Broken Blade.

your character/one of your characters is approached by a Qliipoth. Strangely enough, it doesn't attack, but it begs the party to assist it and it's squamous comrades in cleansing a nearby field of a truly massive demonic infestation; in return, it promises to let every human being traped, imprisoned, hiding, and overall in that area alone for you to help save them. If you assist them, they take the area as their own.

What does your character/party do?

>>47698841
Kill them all. Also, squamous means scaly, not whatever you think it means.

>>47698841
My current party? Probably shoot them all to death.

>>47698841
>detect evil

EVIL DETECTED

RIP AND TEAR

RIP AND TEAR ITS GUTS

>>47698841
Kill everything at both locations, those humans are a trap.

>>47698539
1. Fool's Errand
2. Riven Hourglass
3. Mithral Current
4. Silver Crane
5. Golden Lion

Some people might complain about the "weeaboo fightan magic" that some disciplines bring to the table, but I think that's the best part of PoW. Also, I do enjoy being a buffer every now and then, since I usually play in larger groups.

>>47698841
How many of them are there? It just sounds like they want us to do the entire job for them in exchange for letting us free people we would be freeing anyway, AND having us make additional concessions to them afterward for no reason.

where find fool's errand dsp
why crystal frasier alive
cheap rice bags
cutest baby big cat video
transmuter build 3.pf

>>47698858
Qlippoth are plenty scaly.

>>47698965
it could either be an entire armies worth of them, or it's a small crack team of Qlippoth sent on a suicide mission

>>47698987
Since when? They're usually just tumor blobs.

>>47691571
>designing your own cohort

>>47698841
Help the chaotic evil outsiders kill each other. Control the flow of combat so that it becomes a brutal war of attrition. Clean up the surviving faction afterward.

>>47698841
I help them out. If they are true to their word, I leave them to whatever it is they want to do; I am not a backstabber.

If they try anything though, I'll be there and I'll try to get riud of them to the best of my ability.

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>>47698539
Elemental Flux is extremely powerful and extremely flexible. It penetrates its own weaknesses and offers benefits to every style of play fluidly and simultaneously. I called it "overtuned" elsewhere in the thread.

Veiled Moon is IMHO the best total package for a discipline that isn't Elemental Flux. It gives you a ton of new, exciting things you can do that martial characters normally can't touch, including lots of ways to fuck with enemies and encounters that they likely don't have a prepared response for.

Sleeping Goddess has a lot of nostalgia value - TDO/Vance's stuff was kind of the original ToB expansion for me - and it does so many things that are DIFFERENT, but in a martial way. You can use Mind-Revealing Strike for a Downey Holmes-esque final duel (not that it's hugely beneficial, but it's cool) or as part of a brutal psionic interrogation. Honestly I feel like Sleeping Goddess is on the weaker side in terms of combat and even its utility tends to be too cautiously implemented, but it's really FUN. It bridges the martial-caster divide in the best ways. I'd love to see it get expanded, and for other Disciplines to borrow some of its style.

Shattered Mirror is my first stop if the DM seems challenging. It's exponentially more effective the more dangerous and intelligent your enemies are, and like Sleeping Goddess, it's pretty inventive.

Steel Serpent is my waifu discipline. I love how well it does assassination and stealth-murder (I hate that Veiled Moon got Stealth, I would have given it Knowledge [Planes]) and its concept is my favorite. It doesn't work because it's so undertuned and when you get what kind of poison is so random and its upper levels are LESS creative. I want more Heal-check dirty tricks, flexible poisoning, maneuvers that let you deal increasing damage to a single target mark-and-chain style, I want to explode hearts and invert healing and perform low-damage flurries that provide increasingly cruel statuses per landed blow.

Regarding the current discipline discussion...
Tossing in my two cents as what seems to be the only guy who gives a shit about Iron Tortoise:

Iron Tortoise is the fucking best.
I love making the BBEG look like an idiot by countering his every move.
I also love shield bashing people from 20 feet away when they try to cast a spell.
I especially love being able to legitimately get and hold "aggro."
I love everything about it, even the silly captain america shield tossing.
Anime be dashed, give me more "front line defender" stuff. With IT it's almost worthwhile to be a defense-focused character. Another discipline to smack on top would be perfect. Right now I end up being an extremely hard to kill battlefield control character whenever I play an initiator. With one more discipline I could transition fully into a glorious beacon of safety and protection. Like a healer, but way cooler.
(Eternal Guardian is more of a debuffer than a defender, I think.)

>>47699671

What combos well with Iron Tortoise?

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So quick question, I recall people discussing vital strike, "attack every enemy in a line" railguns. How did those work? Like, what did you use for to-hit? Was it an automatic "reflex to halve damage" thing?

Looking at setting up a "one big laser" archetype for something.

>>47699008
>small crck team
>the whole campaign, the party has to work with a team of action hero Qlippoth to tear down the demon's hideout

>>47699778
A shield

is there any chance of a Pathfinder 2e any time soon on the horizon?

i dont follow the laws about OGL or whatever, is there any chance they repeat their success cloning 3.5 by making a 4e clone and market it as Pathfinder Tactics or something similar to avoid alienating their community

>>47700002
no we should all give up and just slit our fucking wrists

>>47699912
First off they don't. Slow-Firing weapons require a Full-Round action to use, whereas Vital Strike requires the attack action (which is a specific one as well).

However, when using a railgun or single X-Laser shot you roll once, and compare to every AC down the road (taking range penalties into account as you get further and further out). Everything hit is hit, AS LONG as you can get through hardness and DR/resistance to deal damage. Basically if they take at least 1HP after everything, the shot continues.

There is NO halving for reflex, but anything you miss you miss.

>>47692993
>thri-kreen
>piercing thunder Twin Thunder Stance
>solar wind strikes

Be the literal catch-all for attacking opponents, whether they be near or far.

>>47699778
Iron Tortoise is pretty unique in it's focus on shields.
Nothing else really gives a shit about shields.
Like, at all.
There's probably somewhere around 3 maneuvers outside of IT that care about shields. If even that.
When it comes to disciplines, I find that nothing combos well with Iron Tortoise. Instead, Iron Tortoise combos well with anything else.
IT is a great "splash" discipline. It has many useful maneuvers and stances for almost any kind of initiator, doubly so if you are one of the few folk who still use shields these days.
Of course, with the addition of all of these new anime disciplines, you can argue that IT has been outclassed. Yeah, being able to phase through the attack or intimidate the guy out of hitting you is just as effective as shield bashing the attack away, but there's one thing about Iron Tortoise that none of the new fancy disciplines have: It's not supernatural. Iron Tortoise will never leave you. So long as you can still move your arms, you can defend yourself and your party. In one word, Iron Tortoise is reliable. I'd say that it's in need of a few tune-ups here and there, but because it isn't used as a "primary" discipline, it's not urgent. Also, Iron Tortoise does continue to have a few unique maneuvers, which are absolutely fantastic on the right character.

As for classes, the best pick is without a doubt Warder. It's the OTP, Warder and Iron Tortoise. Not much thought needed there.

As for other combos... what other combos? That's it. A shield, I guess? I've mulled over a few silly ideas like a Thrashing Dragon/Iron Tortoise Dervish Warder that dual-wields shields and bashes things into submission, but really, Iron Tortoise is just a good discipline to dip into, and shouldn't be focused on.

>>47700015
i have to admit i'm not close enough to pathfinder to know where the joke is?

i played 3.5 and then i kinda skipped out on PF and 4e and Next/5 beta until just recently but I've been sort of learning the story of PF after the fact.

i think it's neat the way they usurped such a massive fanbase by playing to a community sentiment, and I think their products look great (zero experience firsthand though). i think the fan backlash towards 4e is interesting.

i wonder now if paizo could make a PF2e without alienating their fanbase as "betrayers of 3.PF" and i wonder if they could also "steal" 4e the same way they "stole" 3.xe and rebrand it effectively alongside their existing (or hypothetical PF2e) without alienating their fanbase, to capture the 4e tactical gaming players who really miss its balance/gameplay/whatever

>>47700091
pathfinder is suffering.

but i can't escape.

>>47700091
I think they're going to slowly leave Pathfinder to die if Starfinder takes off.

>>47700034
Ah. Fair enough. I didn't pay a whole hell of a lot of attention to it, I just recalled that it could attack enemies in a line.

>>47700139
what is starfinder? again, new to PF, sorry.

Hai Guise!

Would you allow a leshy familiar the leshy warden archetype to usea wand?

>>47700217
Paizo is launching a sci-fi version of Pathfinder set some thousand years in the future.
It'll come out next year I think.

>>47700219
Does it have Use Magic Device?
Can it use the skill?
Does it have limbs to hold the wand with?
Then yes.

>>47700244
i played a lot of AD&D2e and some 3.5e, is that looking like a spelljammer setting?

i looked at 5e/next recently and it doesnt seem to have spelljammer or dark sun (but it does have forgotten realms) so i would love to find a modern system with a spelljammer setting

>>47700244
Could it activate a wand of cure light wounds without a check?

I'm playing a castlevania themed campaign and am the designated belmont.
What classes and disciplines should I use for maximum whipping + thrown weapons?

>>47700206
It can, and it's not bad at it. However, if you want to use the heavy weapons, look not into feats and look instead into the various class abilities that will make it... much bigger.

>>47700335
warpriest

>>47700264
Maybe. We'll see.
Chances are spelljammer is too marital-friendly though, and so it'll be spellcasters ruling across the stars not losing their spells for running ships while "space marines" are spending all their feats trying to swim back to shore.

>>47700379
Doesn't warpriest force you into using only one weapon?

>>47700408
Only one weapon gets the damage die stuff, but make that the whip. Thrown weapons can already be okayish as a backup with some PoW stuff.

>>47700293
Does it have CLW on its spell list? No? Then it needs to make the check.

>>47700408
Nope, you get the increased damage dice with any weapon you have weapon focus for.

>>47700437
That does require taking weapon focus multiple times, which isn't really doable when you have a build as feat-hungry as whipping AND throwing.

>>47700456
Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stones and a Wayfinder

>>47700456
Could always get opalescent white ioun stones and a wayfinder, though you'd need a new stone for every weapon type.

What are some ways to gain a non-enhancement bonus to Intelligence?
As temporary as 1 round is fine.
Any 3pp.

>>47700580
Tome of Clear Thought
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/book-tome-of-clear-thought

>>47700580
Wishes, leveling up, succubutt profane bonuses, cognatogens.

Are there any good third party feats or items and things for a grapple build?

Just want to know how else I can make this character better.

>>47700371
I'm not looking to /use/ heavy weapons. I'm looking into designing an archetype that attacks with a similar mechanic.

>>47700659
Then you may want to get some inspiration looking at the Sniper-type Marksman class.

Its mechanic IS compatible with Vital-Strike, though a bit old for a class

New threado:
>>47701250
>>47701250
>>47701250
>>47701250

>>47699671
>I especially love being able to legitimately get and hold "aggro."
MMO shit like this is lame though.

>>47698443
We're all BUILDPOSTERS now.