WARMACHINE AND HORDES GENERAL

>>47639430
>Does anyone have this legendary train-wreck podcast?
No idea what you're talking about and I've been playing this game since Superiority. Maybe you're thinking of an old Focus and Fury cast? Those guys were full of salt and rage and were pretty big dicks.

Only other old school pod cast I cam think of was Guts N Gears and those guys were always super awesome.

>>47639561
>Way back in MKI, Legend is told of a Podcast Interview that made PP rage so hard that it made them never agree to one again.

they just did a chain attack podcast the other day...

>>47639589
That too. They do stuff all the time. I assume OP is just full of shit and is mining for salt or something

>>47639618

probably, I can believe that shithead faghair soles did get all butthurt on a podcast at some point though

>>47639719
He's a cool guy, but is just naturally kind of a.dick. He'd fit in on /tg/ really well, he's just like assholes here

>>47639897
>cool guy
>fit in on /tg/ really well

>anything but all of the above

>>47639897
Sorry, but the image someone presents to the world says a lot about them, and his hair says "I'm a huge douche all the time".

>>47639589
That one was vetted and prepped for. Jay mentioned it as a condition for the interview.

In that same part Jay also mentions the pidcast existing,but not the episode or name.

I also recall my PG talking about PP not digging a previous podcast. So I am a believer.

Though this could explain why focus and fury had their old podcasts removed.

>>47640072
>I'm a huge douche all the time
Exactly why he'd fit in on /tg/ and /wmhg/.

>>47617569
I feel better about dropping obstructors to change eradicators to recips, adding clockwork Angels, then dropping ado to add a galvanizer

On my end, a 2.5 list I'm going to try Wednesday.

Aurora 27
Corollary 6
Diffuser 6
Mitigator 7
Cipher 15
Obstructors 11
Clockwork Angels 5
Eradicators 15
-UA 3
Perfs 18
-UA 3
Optifex Directive 4
Steelsoul 4
Steelsoul 4
ADO 2

Inf Khador aka all Khador lists make me salty
You tech to kill beasts fast and then Khador be like "Did not bring 5 big pizzas with you? Suckerrrr" ans thwy swarm with their bullshit def

>>47641124
Are you even speaking a language?

>want to get into this Warmachine/Hordes
>never played a tabletop game before
>read all the new edition is on back order
>even if it's available I'm impatient as fuck and don't want to wait until the end of the month to get started

Am I just flushing money down the toilet if I buy a starter set of the old edition? I really don't want to wait.

>>47641151
"Infantry based Khador, as in, all Khadoran lists, make me upset. You painstakingly craft your list to dispatch enemy Warbeasts handily, yet the Khadorans retort, "Did you not bring five big pies with you? What a cad!" Which they then compound on by engaging with their codswallop defense."

>>47641175
Apparently a lot of small stores are reporting that they will get their preorders, so you might just have to call a local store or two. The old stuff is alright, but you won't get the new rules or cards so you'd have to get warroom or a deck

>>47641283
"I build my lists to win against everyone forever, and the people I play against actually build to win! How dare they! They should just build lists that my list counters! It's not fair!"

Just because they found how their faction functions, don't feel salty cause you suck with yours.

>>47641175
No, you'll be fine. Those models all work in the new edition, they just don't come with the new rules. The new rules will be available for free download, and you can get war room for the cards, or buy a faction deck. But all the old models are still viable in the new game.

>>47641369
This is the entire reason two-list format is the standard

>>47641175
What faction are you talking about? Not all battleboxes was good in MK2 (in fact, most was bad). And even powerful ones (like Deneghra in Cryx) wasn't good start too.

It would be better to:
1. Select faction
2. Manually construct your first small list (with \tg\ and\or forum help)
3. Buy models for the list

The Retribution Mk II starter is still a good starter for Mk III, Manticore is now solid and cheap and the Griffon and Chimera are great light jacks. Not sure about how the other old boxes will fare though,

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>>47641283
60% of the current meta involves some kind of infantry spam, it's not just khador, khador can run jack heavy as well, using an uncommon vocabulary on 4chan doesn't make you sound smart, you sound like a fucktard, why are you not building against infantry if you hate it so much, we have 2 list systems and adr for a reason.

>need any more reasons to explain why you're retarded?

>>47641575
Non-death stars are easy to defeat with normal lists

>>47641565
the cryx old box is good value especially if you are picking it up on the cheap. Thats kinda the way i feel about all of them, my local game store has all of the old battleboxes for 25% off and at that price they are all worth picking up.

>>47641624

Non death stars? Is it still 2012? That shit stop being viable in even the most casual of meta.

>>47641781
It was viable, but it was hardly unbeatable.
Tbh the best thing about the wgi death star was its utility, not its toughness. It was pretty easy to deal with.

Shame they got nerfed into the ground. I don't think they needed to lose bob and weave on top of the iron flesh change

>>47641575
>Khador can run jack heavy
>in Mk2

What's it like being retarded?

>>47641369
That wasn't me, I was translating for Anon

Is it me or does this thread seem more dead than normal? Mk3 isn't even out yet how can hype have died down this fast

>>47643389
It's 9 am

>>47643389
We already discussed spoilers. We whined about everything spoiled. We even planed some rough lists. Now we are waiting for the full rules.

>>47643404
I'm an insomniac :D, still seems dead tho

>>47643446
> :D
Stop that.

>>47643389
I wish people would post their minis more in these threads.

I'm about to paint the Cyriss box set and want to avoid doing them all like silver necrons. Any ideas? Thinking orange or yellow plating. Do dark or bright Cyriss tend to look betteR?

Both factions I want to get into during the MK3 journeyman league come with 2 terrible lights I'm never gonna use ever. Trollbloods or minions. The Axer is alright at least. Also if Baldur puts down a forest can Barnabus put down a swamp right over it?

>>47643485
You could try going for a very bright, polished gold and ivory look. I've never seen CoC models on the table, but that's how I'd do them.

>>47643528
Kind of like bayonetta angels? I like it.

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>>47643485
Well here's my Molik Karn laying into Kreoss2 at our 7 player Steamroller yesterday. Needed an 8 on 3d6 to finish him on the last attack, rolled 5.

>>47643495

You'll be using the Impaler. Not in almost every list like MK2, but that Animus is still very important.

>>47643565
base your shit

>>47643485
Use 2-4 different kinds of metal and a different highlight for each of them.
I'd go with ironbreaker for blades and hydraulics, leadbelcher for structural elements, and runelord brass for boilers, grilles and details.
If you want yellow you can paint the plates gold, cover with brown ink and then with nuln oil. Then highlight the model using the base color, and give it a very light drybrush of a lighter gold color on the edges.

>>47643647
Why impaler over bomber?

>>47643417
what do other threads talk about that is not just theorycraft

>>47643706
basing is overrated

When is PP gonna reveal the LnL model?

>>47643565
was the menoth player running crusaders of sul theme list? I love that shit

>>47643721
It does seem hard to justify taking the Impaler over the Bomber. Duplicating the animus onto the Bomber seems like a weird move on PP's part.

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>>47643485

does anybody have any info on new skorne solo that was supossed to buff ranged game? Dakaar I guess?

>>47643932
The new hordes faction

>>47643721
>>47644075
PC differences? Bomber is 16 Impaler is 11. Enough that if you have a battlegroup with other Dires maybe you want to grab a light instead of another heavy.

>>47644387
No, I mean the convention exclusive sculpt.

Man I really wish someone made an easy changelog of all the changes
I hate having to always go remind me of the little things mk3 changed in cards

>>47644539
the only troll warlock i can see wanting far strike and not wanting the bomber as a core part of his army is maddy1 and possibly maddy2, upping rathrok's range is pretty sweet and maddys can get more outta those 5 points.

but locks like grim1and 2 and jarl? They want the dire troll

>>47643485

I've been wanting to do my CoC white Phyrexian style, aka stained white plates with rusty metal and/or bloody joints.

>>47643837
On a good looking table? Base to at least not clash. This isn't rocket science.

Spread cheap superglue across base inset, covering any open slot first.
Dip into craft store colored sand, preferably dark or "white".

If you did this after painting the mini, use a cheap and gloppy dark brown or black paint to "prime" the sand. Otherwise prime it with the rest of the mini.
Apply dark brown to whole sanded base. Keep the beveled ring black but mark the front arc points.
Catch the high points of the sand with a nice grassy green; at this point there is no need to catch it all. The varied green coverage will look more natural.
Done.

>>47644576
Probably this week. They usually don't splash it about until right before.

>>47645685
Or just do what I do
be a lazy shit and cover all bases in that fake grass they sell in bulk

>>47645753
>all grass bases
Ew. Better just leave them blank then.

>>47645753
The Woodland Scenics ground foam?
Vile stuff. Used it for years. Don't any more.

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>>47645460
White with red details looks great but it can be really hard to make a white model look good

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>>47645907
Is it the same as the GW stuff?
I got one of these half-full for 2 dollars from one guy who quit.

>>47645965
No, that's static grass. It can be good looking if applied right, but that isn't a quick process. If you just glue it down flat it looks like your fights are all in barns or mown fields. To look right it needs to stand up, but covering the entire base that way looks like a cheap toy.

That Space Marine >>47645942 is using both small sand and a little static grass.

So, I hear a lot of people concerned about Cygnar, but outside of eCaine being crazy, not much specifically.

What kind of Cygnar lists are actually scary?

>>47646046
It is not a quick process?
You just pinch some in your fingers and stick it hard on the glue
That can't take long

>>47646083
Haley2 and Haley3 instantly put you in scenarios where you cannot win no matter what you do
If played right that is

>>47645685
I like the coarser-grained fill they sell for basing, since it looks good putting it on after painting.

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>>47644539
>Bomber is 16 Impaler is 11
Bomber is 19 points. Blitzer is 16.

Speaking of basing, I'm looking to improve the look of bases for my Circle. I'm planning to pick up a set of Shifting Stones and cut them up to use as broken debris, but not sure what else to use for other bases. Any ideas?

>>47646283
>def 12
For what reason?

The real question is
If Cygnar is still not broken after 2 year timeskip, how the fuck did they pull it off

>>47646376
Pretty much all heavy beasts are DEF 12 or lower. Whats wrong with that?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I would love DEF 13 Bombers...

>>47646391


Julius took over and rebuffs Khador while injecting new resources into the Laelese resistance.

>>47646283
Ah thanks for correction.

>>47646376
DEF 12 is good though. Banes have DEF 12 and they have always been the most overpowered units in the game.

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>>47646372

this is what I'm going to attempt whenever I actually start my circle

So can I not participate in a Journeyman league unless I buy a Mk3 battle box?

>>47647242
Talk to your PG. Most Journeyman leagues will have alternate battle boxes.

>>47645942
It can be hard for a new painter but I think some one who has mastered the concept of primer, bascoat, wash, highlight could easily do it if they took a careful approach.

>>47646406
>Pretty much all heavy beasts are DEF 12 or lower.
Stop. It hurts too much.

>>47641964

Def 14 with arm 15 would of been a solid unit, but fuck khador I guess. Meanwhile trenchers are ridiculous and practically just as tool box.

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>>47643485
PAINTING THREAD? Painting thread!

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>>47647469
I'm showing all the armies I sold off.

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>>47643485

Realistic khador color scheme butcher2, I am going to hate painting the base when I get around to it.

>>47647469
Mmm I love that yellow
Such a clean yellow

>>47647469
what's that rightmost one? It's not a colossal

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>>47647491

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>>47647506
Nice green. What did you use? Also clean paintjob!

>>47647514
Thanks, there WAS a whole army painted in yellow.

>>47647516
That's an armored core (limited eddition from Armored Core 5)

>>47647588
I find clean yellow to be the hardest color to get right.
It is so easy to ruin

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>>47647623
It's easier than you think, if you prime white. Also you should use the p3 yellows. Those arent so "glossy" and are easy to put on!

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>>47643485
I do occasionally, but painting has been hard lately. What's everyone else working on?

>>47647242
That depends, is your PG a dick?

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>>47647722
Actually painting some infinity. Basicly selling most of my troll stuff, because no one is playing.

>>47647467
>[Return] [Catalog] [Top] 91 / 14 / 49 / 2 [Up
> would of
WOULD HAVE

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>>47647771

Does anyone have links for all the leaked cards?

>>47647784
Autism

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>>47647771
I started doing that too and then Mk3 got announced and I was like fuck, guess I got work to do

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Ugh I cant bring myself to finish it though. I just have to do the canons

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>>47647982
your that Trollpainting dude, right? I was lurking your stuff before. Your work looks good!

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>>47648011
DO IT!

How big are the games in america?
I wish MK3 revives the game some in my country, it is depressing.

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>>47648036
Usually, when I remember to type the name in. Unfortunately I haven't painted much Troll stuff lately. I took a break to paint some Infinity and fantasy stuff.

>>47648102

75 right now I have a strong feeling it will move to 100pts once we get settled in

>>47647913

that is gorgeous, very nice rust

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>>47648036
>>47648145
Also thank you. Always cool to get compliments on stuff. I usually post so other folks share their models too

>>47643478
:3

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I repainted gaspy's dress in preperation for him being 'moderatly interesting'

>>47647134
WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU PUT THE MODEL!?!?!??!?!

>I just cover the whole base in sand my guys only fight in the desert/ on desert worlds for 30k/40k
>I'm just shit at basing and pretty shit at painting.

>>47647756
I don't know I haven't met them. I was just reading about that journeyman shit and it said on the website you need a new battlebox.

>>47646376
Because 12/18 with 30 boxes is the exact health of a regular cygnar heavy.

The most common statline in the game. Get over yourselves.

>>47648383
>Def 12 Arm 18
>Def 10 Arm 19

Why is my crusader not def 11.

>>47648371
On the base?

>>47648371
Who are you quoting?

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>>47648422
Mostly because of your crazy high damage output

>>47648379
Technically you do need a new box, but you can always ask your PG if you can use one of the old boxes.

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This guy was the last big thing I have painted. I took a break for a while and worked on some commissions. I have so much to do, just picked up the new Avatar

>>47648504

HoJ's sculpt still confuses me. It looks like a 1st-gen MK1 design.

>>47648422
Because you got motherfucking choir

>>47648422


>def: infinite against non magical shooting

Ok

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>>47648526
Yeah, I was a little disappointed when I bought him, but after it's painted up it looks alright. I can't wait for the new Indictor kit tho

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Was photo of the new B13 somewhere?

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>>47643485
A WIP
>tfw Mk3 invalidates this list

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old piece
I really wanted to try painting camo, but half-way realized it was going to clash with all the other colors of the model.

>>47648422
Protectorate players won't he happy till their jacks only miss on double 1s, are all P&S 20 and immune to damage.

>>47648422
Because of the Choir and cheaper costs.

A Crusader is 10 Points when a Jugg is 12. Overall you get the better deal.

Next question please.

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gunna throw out a Kryssa starting army list

Kryssa *+31*

_Warbeasts_
Angelius 17
Angelius 17
Neraph 12
Nephilim Bolt Thrower 11
raek 8
Harrier 3

_Infantry_
Legionnaires 15
Farilor 5

_solo's_
Anyssa Ryvaal -8-
Forsaken X2 8
ShepardX2 2

= 75

>>47648999

Why the Harrier? Why Legos over Swordsmen?

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>>47648765
Invalidated purchases is the best Warmachine meme in a while. Instantly shows you who the whiney bitches are.

>>47649079
harrier because having a chance to survive a fatal encounter with a good assassination run seems pretty neat also

swordsmen look like trash :'D

>>47649135

he said list not purchases though

>>47648765
the paints aren't THICK enough

>>47649135
But mah bloat mobius module.

Mah minion goraxes.

Muh Cygnar mercs.

Muh Skorne.

>>47649285
cant all those cygnar players with lot of mercs just play some french resistance theme force
i bet there is one

>>47643049
butcher3 does it handily. what IS it like being retarded?

>>47647115
>banes are the most overpowered units in the game
bwahahaha christ you're stupid

>>47648999
Legos are straight up bad.

Angels are...just sorta meh. they were mostly good in mk2 Vayl2 tier because of the yo-yo shenanigans, something kryssa does not facilitate as well (Tac Sup is better on a unit). they give good damage output on one attack on the feat turn, the rest are garbage except vs infantry - basically, you have to do all your ARM cracking on feat turn with what you got and that's bad.

kryssa actually gets no benefit at all from a bolt thrower. it's a great beast...i'd just look at other melee options first for her. and i think she wants a couple spell martyrs.

i'd probably take a scythean, swordsmen + UA, and warspears + UA.

>>47649138
swordsmen look like trash? lmao legos are trash. they totally gutted them as a tarpit. ashen veil helps deliver swordsmen and then tac sup when they're engaged.

>>47648999
Bring a Succubus. Free upkeep on a low Fury (for the faction) caster, can give her concealment too.

>>47649135
Idk i prefer 'skornergy doesnt exsist, some people just dont like options'

>>47649285
what's cygnar bitching about now? what changed with their merc use?

>>47649500

buffs are friendly faction, but I haven't really seen cygnar guys bitching about it they're mostly happy they can use actual cygnar units now

>>47649135
I can still play a variation of the same list:

Dawnlord Vyros (*28pts)
* Banshee/Phoenix/Hypnos/Discordia (18pts)
* Sphinx (13pts)
* Sphinx (13pts)
* Sphinx (13pts)
Dawnguard Sentinels (Leader and 9 Grunts) (18pts)
* Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard (4pts)
Dawnguard Sentinels (Leader and 9 Grunts) (18pts)
* Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard (4pts)
Arcanist (2pts)

And its arguably better as Sentinels gained default Vengeance, Iron Zeal and Tactics: Relentless Charge. Plus power up benefits the jack heavy nature, Hallowed Avenger was buffed and pVyros feat is now BG Flank with FF Warriors.

The downside is mitigating the loss of the Daemons. However I could move points around for them and say lose a jack to get an Imperatus in the list.

>>47648371
Whenever I see stuff like that I assume they've pinned a foot to the base.

>>47649485
That one is pretty great too. Anything to torture the Skorne players

>>47649357

I play a lot of butcher 3 with 4 jacks and I don't consider him a jack caster.


Jackd are mostly their for piece trading so butcher can kill any threatening pieces to him. Secondary function is if a juggernaut manages to slip through it can definitely kill a caster so the enemy is forced to deal with them.

They are also practically imps sole to remove at range which feeds into butcher wanting to play the scenario game.

Most players want a caster that can actually run an army of jacks in a way in which it isn't a cheap gimmick. They want their jacks to derp into enemy units and be able to come out on top or to see their jacks kill a heavy with ease. With out the right set up you really cant do these things in the same turn with multiple jacks

>>47649555
ahhh yeah that's just a general qq. oh noes you have to pick between who to put murdoch on, or no kiss for you...no sympathy

>>47649443
oh no i meant model wise ahuhuhu ;) I know that swordsman are basically the much better choice at this point in almost any list.

>>47649597
He may not be a jack caster, but that doesn't mean you can't play him jack heavy. Of course it changes a lot in mk3, it's khador christmas after all

>>47649368
They are though. You're just a cryxbabby who never learned to play the game with your training wheels army.

>>47649630
ahhh fair. yeah the lego metal models look really cool. swordsmen plastic is pretty meh, and a pain to clean/separate, though I like their UA's look.

>>47649485
Skornergy is an overused term. Like victim stats and pillow fisted. People stretch them to fit whatever they want to cry about. It's a garbage bag condom argument. Leaks all over.

>>47649650
where did the big mean cryxians touch you anon

>>47649695
Yeah, Skornergy used to have a real definition that people understood. Now people just throw it around whenever they see "redundant abilities" that they dislike, like taking Seethers with Venethrax (both would allow the jack to counter-charge, so you're paying for a benefit somewhere and not reaping it). And that's not Skornergy at all.

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>>47649695
You're forgetting design space. And negative play experience.

>>47649763
>and not reaping it
I see what you did there...

>>47649695
I think people are not used to the concept of non-skew. The idea that your stats don't have to be near unhittable and your POW or accuracy have to be undefeatable.

>>47649763
Exactly. Memory is being a bit foggy. Anyone remember a real example of skornergy from MK1? Or was the term coined in early MK2?

I know it's supposed to be shit like "gain an additional die on charges but can't charge."

So i can buy one unit type from the CoC heavy infantry list. Whom should i pick if i am a new player?
And assimilator vector - should i purchase it?
Also what should i consider picking since i am willing to join the ranks of glorious menites and ordered a two-player box Menoth stuff?
A Vigilant maybe? Another Crusader, considering how cheap they are nowadays? Templar? Some units like zealots or stuff?

>>47649827
It was something like: Caster who needed Souls to function was expected to take units that didn't generate souls.

>>47649862
Caster that needs souls has all rfp abilities and stuff like that

>>47649642
You are very right, I haven't played any of mk3 either. With the changes to SoD and his feat giving the jacks focus to actually be more than just an anvil for the hammer (butcher) maybe a thing. I am really sad to see ruin lose soul harvester, he was my favorite jack for this reason alone. Khador has had a problem with jacks struggling against infantry. We have some decent options still, but I miss muh Ruin.

>>47649827
Example:

Ancestral Guardians need souls to function properly otherwise they are slow and don't hit hard
>therefore they want living infantry
Immortals want ancestral guardians to move faster
>but provide the guardian with no souls to work with so its slower than them/doesn't hit too hard

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>>47649650
Lol k. Git gud

>>47649763
What about the interaction between cull soul and erruption of ash? Aka the skornergy part of the caster.

Having countercharge FM and countercharge on seethers is just not very exciting, but not what people are refering to

>>47649862
>>47649910
Ok yeah that's ringing a bell.

>>47649809
Damn straight.

>>47649727
>>47649917
All these cryxbabby tears. Salty that you need to actually learn how to play now that your overpowered faction has been brought down to normal level?

>>47649844
Reciprocators. Jason Watt has had great experiences with Eradicators but Recips are generally easier to use imo.

>>47650019
you have a really retarded way of interpreting tears, and the only person whining about cryx has been you, so

>>47649844
Recips are the most generally useful.

And learn to magnetize jack kits if you're playing CoC. It's incredibly useful

>>47649844
The Assimilator is a good jack. I really hate the modulator (can't see a good use for it, dislike that the Conflux seems to be geared towards electricity and thus the Modulator too). But on a decent-RAT caster and abusing induction, placing an aoe is pretty great, and there are enough buffs in the faction to make its WM claw really nasty. I mean it's no cipher and certainly no TEP/Axiom, but it's not bad by any stretch. Synth certainly likes it for his feat. Aurora likes fast jacks. Mother gives it the benefit of Harm. Lucant and Axis have better things to take, but it still does decent in melee with them.

>>47649809
Yeah, it's unfortunate that PP let the DEF skew, and then the ARM-skew with colossals, be such gameplay cornerstones for years. it really affects peoples ability to objectively evaluate in non-skew environments, like mk3 wants to be. Like, there WILL be a jack skew to start, and then people will take heavy infantry that mulch jacks efficiently, and then they'll take light infantry that deal with WMs a lot, and the rock-paper-scissor balance will hopefully be restored.

>>47648765
>Mk3 invalidates this list
Mk3 buffs everything in that list.

>>47649901
I think that's where Rifle Corps and Widowmakers and kayazy come back into play.

>>47650173
Modulator is a cheap as shit heavy with two guns and anti infantry tech. Syntherion loves it for reconstruct and the fact that it has 4 initials with his feat, mother likes to use it to create lines, often with the servitor her axiom spawns.

>>47650209
The new points system and lack of a free UA via tier benefit actually cuts about 4 points out of the list. Nevermind the lack of jack marshals which shifts the weight on to pVyros. Like I said, it invalidates the list. I didn't say it made the models worse.

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Who wants to get his Big Mac delivered?

>>47650150
I already have magnetized a monitor box, so yes, if you CoC players advice it, i think i should buy it. Good jack after all.
>>47650150
Why are they mostly usefull? Another units look great - assault shooty guys and another unit is 2x attacks with great accuracy. Or it is because i will mostly do damage with my jacks and not medium infantry, so i mostly would like them to "tank" stuff?
>>47650173
I would like never ever to use colossal. Okay, so i should consider buying it. Thanks for the tip.
Oh and i request assistance. How do Trolls play like? Are they slow-moving infantry-focused faction, tough, but not having alot of hitting power? Do they love their beasts, and if yes, whom? Can i run a beast-heavy troll army and not be trampled by my opponent?

>>47650470
Perforators are just pretty meh. They're not accurate, they basically have to use the Snipe option to get range (at the cost of the +2 damage option, which sucks), and there's better shooting and infantry. I'm working on an Aurora list with them and heavy infantry, that builds around leapfrogging servitors, perfs, and then recips, but it's not very intuitive, and without screening perfs wont earn their points back.

Eradicators aren't bad per se, but they are harder to use, and Side Step no longer avoids free strikes so they got worse. If you're new to COC, Recips will just serve you better.

the axiom is absolutely amazing.

>>47650266
That is exactly one of the reasons i want to pick it. Actual chain lightning gun and on Synth feat would be wiping infantry off the table. Not to mention other incarnations of that chassis.

>>47650512
Okay, recips it is then.
Yes, it may be amazing, but it is like "battle engine" or other stuff from 40k for me, and i have "hatred" special rule towards those.

>>47650470
Recips are both the most durable and generally hardest hitting infantry in the faction. They can hold a zone, and they can kill other heavy stuff.

Perfs have a whole lot of positioning issues and accuracy problems, they're the hardest to use and provide the least amount of payoff. Mk3 looks to be better for them, but they will still take a lot of work.

Eradicators are great for clearing jams, but die much easier and have problems with heavier targets.

>>47650599
You can actually magnetize the medium base infantry as well, which I absolutely recommend. Makes transporting them much easier.

>>47650573
i just feel like positioning to get the lightning line AND induct isn't the easiest thing

>>47650599
Hm. Understood. Just be aware the TEP is the best battle engine in the game (and got better for mk3). The axiom was tied for 2nd best colossal in mk2 and may actually be best now.

>>47650679
Lightning line is either set up with a servitor or don't bother unless the shot is amazing. Just take the two guns on a cheap platform that has the shield to protect it from infantry.

Anyone mind reposting the link to the leaks?

>>47650599
Considered.
>>47650617
Mkay, since i am a noob i better pick glorious robotic phalanx.
>>47650679
Maybe. However, other options for that chassis are good aswell. Or so i feel.

>>47650816

Why the fuck haven't you got it already?

>>47650892
I'm away from home right now and haven't saved them on every possible device I own.

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>>47650939
>not using remote access
>not having a cloud

>>47651052
>not using remote access
I fucked datastore access for my teamviewer VM. Sue me. Or post the link. I don't want to search for a non-broken 4chan archive.

>>47651121
What the shit?

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>>47651052
>Leaving your computer a primed hacking vector
>Saving data on some random persons computer

>>47650833
what else do you have for coc?

>>47640072

Yeah, he's exactly like you.

>>47647467
"fuck khador" lmaooooo

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>>47647467

>def 14 arm 15 would have been fine
>but fuck Khador

So anyone willing to post the link?

>>47651972


To what you fucking idiot?

>>47651972
Finally found it again. Since when are the archives so dead.

http://www.megafileupload.com/b1si/fljkjv.rar

>>47651580
PPIDF please, you need to take Soles' crusty hipster cock out of your mouth.

>>47651685
And they have to be 11 Points.

Thats what gets me. The biggest complaints tend to be about bargain priced units.

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>>47647469
Still working on my legion. I need to make a light box, and get an actual camera.

>>47652109

See, "a huge douche all the time." Literally how you present yourself to the world.

I figure you guys would love each other.

What are you working on at the moment goys? How close are you to finishing it?

>>47652503
painting: blightbringer. actually mostly done, want to go back over for touch-ups and highlights and the like

assembly: swordsmen, man, i hate fiddly little 4-piece 10-count models like this. slow going just because continuing cleanup is so unappealing.

>>47652503
I posted what I'm working on above
>Legions of Dawn tier 2

Sadly I got OCD about cleaning and its hard to paint now so I don't know when I'll finish even with the meds.

>>47640072
this is true, signamancy is real

>>47652503
I've got some Circle incoming, got a ninja going to L&L, so getting stuff together to get Tanith put together fast, since we have a tourney in my state at the end of the month using mark 3.

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>>47652686
Kaiju Minions first unit based. Decided to call it Hordes Beta Uprising as it amuses me and sounds like a shitty B movie title at once. Not sure if I want to start a blog about it or a thread on Dakka Dakka or something.

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theme force info

>>47652786
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

So, I played against someone running Cetratii with eMakeda, and it was pretty sick (Tough + Steady + Spell Ward + Shield Wall + Agonizer + multiple Stay Death is... good). Now I wonder what the new Fist of Halaak will give them.

>>47652115

WGI lost a lot of survivability and they also lost damage out put. What dI'd they get in exchange for it? A points reduction. I honestly don't know if I will ever field that unit again unless I'm straight up spamming bodies.

>>47652957
I think they'd be fine if they'd kept the sprays all the time. They'd be a cheap infantry clearing unit that can occasionally pump out a CRA, but with a tradeoff of being incredibly easy to kill.

>>47652905
Take 40 points of cataphracts, get a free command attachtment :^)

>>47653029

If they could preform their new spray every turn I would be waaaay more interested in the unit. I wish they could use their gun in melee with their melee weapon I would be all about it.

>>47653029
doing grapeshot every turn was frankly the most bonkers thing about them.

>>47653197
only because they could skew to DEF 17 to stay alive long enough to do it.
At DEF 12, they'll be lucky to get close, and can not longer just laugh their way out of melee as all those free strikes miss. Jamming them fucks their ability to spray pretty hard.

>>47652503
Just started on the Dhunian Knot. They're Uh... Primed at least?

>>47653216
Actually, jamming them doesn't fuck their ability to spray.

Because they now get gunfighter when they spray. They can now charge and spray, or spray to unjam.

>>47653307
Sure, if they keep it the way it is.
I'd rather have permanent sprays than the minifeat, once per game makes WGI pretty garbage.

I don't want them to be the best unit in Khador, but as they are they're pretty useless.

>>47653147
>>47653216
How many things do you need to drop a spray? It's a spray. By nature it's good at hitting multiple targets.

>>47653197
Also ooooooooooh Grapeshot is once per game now. Thank freaking god.

Also comparing them to Sea Dog Crew is interesting. Crew is more expensive and better in melee but weaker in shooting. Buff wise Winter Guard get better offensive stuff (+4 str vs situational weaponmaster? Boosted attack rolls that also work on ranged attacks? Non-limited resource buffs?)

Oh hey WGI are the same cost as Steelhead Halbs. 7/11 is dirt cheap. 7/11 for stuff that has guns is super dirt cheap. What are you honestly expecting out of the base unit?

>>47653450
Wait, thinking about it. Base WGI vs Rifle Corps favors Rifle Corps.

However, what about min WGI + max Rockets vs Rifle Corps? Both are 13 points.

Okay now throw in Joe.

>>47653608
Well, what about mini rifle corps + max rockets? That's only 1 point more.

>>47653608
rockets on both?

also, what jacks does vlad3 want?

>>47653704
Oh right. Hmm

>>47653419

They weren't the best unit. In competitive play people just took two units of black dragons and called it a day. They were tool box as all get out, but they just couldn't stay on the table.

>>47653857
Honestly, BDIFP weren't all that anyway.

That wasn't really my point though - I meant that I don't need WGI to be incredibly good, just not the confused mess that they are now.

>>47653886
If anything the current winterguard are less confused.
WGI are good against hard targets, and have a mini feat in case some infantry jam them up.

WGRC are better against soft targets, mostly due to their range. But now they aren't dead weight if your opponent doesn't bring light infantry.

So now WGI are less versatile and WGRC are more versatile, but in a way this makes them better in their defined role

>>47653951
how do you figure WGI are better vs hard targets?

>>47653886
BDP were amazing because of precision strike on a unit with P+S 13 and CMA. Now IFP can get it too, and are cheaper. Iron Zeal rarely mattered on single wound models, except to survive unboosted shooting.

What's the easiest faction to paint?

>>47654017
Probably menoth if you don't get too fancy

After that, khador

>>47653963
+2 pow.

Consider the case of troll champions.
You are going to want to combine because at arm 18 your at dice off 6/8.
And your going to want to do 2 man combines so you can deal the most damage.
In this case WGI will theoretically deal 10 more damage (a lot more with the command attachment) and, since they are cheaper, are more likely to be bringing rocketeers for even more damage

WGI is still one of the most potent damage sources in a B1 list on feat turn, point for point. And since the spray is now a pow 12, they can be brutal. But you roll up with 10 of them for 11 points + joe and you've got 10 fully boosted pow 12s. IFP will do more damage with pow 13s, but there's something to be said for how nice it is to shoot your damage instead of charging, even if it's only 8 inches.

Also, with Irusk 2, WGI with tough and steady can be delivered to do some CRAs on stuff cheaply. I wouldn't use the CA in that role because I don't think enough will survive for the sprays to be super relevant.

>>47647771
I've been really digging infinity, loving that game.

Excited to play some WM once the cards finally drop though.

>>47654017
Minions are dry brush city. Could paint an entire unit in maybe 2 hours.

>>47646086
Sure, for a patch. Doing the whole base like that? Not so much.

>>47646198
I used to use a coarser mix, but surrounding your aggressive looking model with a field of ankle breaking rocks has its limits.

>>47646372
I hit up the dollar store for a jar of smallish decorative rocks that look like broken up quartz. I place one or two on a base to break up the lines.

>WGI lost stuff and in return they got nothing!

This is that entitlement attitude that gets me.

Lets say we have something thats:

Worth 10 Points: 10 Points of benefits

And one Worth 10 Points: 15 Points of benefits

Then the thing thats unbalanced would be the 15 points thing. It doesn't GET 5 points after loosing 5 points.

You are correct, they are pretty garbage, but many units across the board that where at around the (Olden 5, modern 10) cost where all made garbage because thats what 10 points units get you.

WGR are worth 2 More points, and just get +6 range on guns, -2 pow and practiced maneuvers. Its a pay off.

I personally still prefer the WGI for the +2 pow. And reposition with the attachments means they can shoot, and then move out of charge distance for many things. And grapeshot gives them utility against infantry.

So what do the WGI do now? Primarily target heavier for cheap. CRing with them is Accuracy 7 damage 14 which puts solid dents into everything. Heck use them to attack IFP, and even if they die they are still super cheap.

"But they are so vulnerable" sure, so run them ahead of your expensive thing and idiots will target them instead of the expensive thing. MK3 encourages much more variety of units as opposed too just finding the best one.

>>47654481
>You are correct, they are pretty garbage

This is the kind of idiocy that gets me

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>>47645685
I'm no Rembrandt, but even a little basing effort goes a long way.
This is fine sand and two colors of paint.

>>47654545
Quantity has a quality of it's own. Enough Garbage can be pretty useful.

Issue is WGI vs Rifle Corps is very very close. I'm surprised how similar the units are for how close in PC they are.

>>47654481
>MK3 encourages much more variety of units
>>47654692
>Quantity has a quality of it's own.


I really hope you aren't the same person who keeps posting.

>>47654839
Why so salty?

>>47654839
Not the same person.

>>47654692
>Issue is WGI vs Rifle Corps is very very close.

True thats a much more agreeable thing. Maybe rifle core needed like 1 extra point or the like.

>>47654981
More like WGI needed 1 less point.

>>47654938

Everyone has this idea of what the unit should be like and I sincerely believe maybe two people posting on the subject play the unit and the rest of the crowd is just spouting bullshit or obvious synergies that have already been realized for years now.

There is really no justifiable reason for the unit to suck, we've had a tier list all about spamming them and it wasn't particularly good then. I truly beliebe it was just a bad decision possibly made when the rules were different and the changes to the WGI were forgotten instead of being adjusted accordingly.

>>47652503

I got a Nephilim Protector in today, so I'm going to assemble that bad boy.

I doubt I'll use him too much, but it was $10 new in box with free shipping so worst case I'm not out much.

Okay, so with arcuarii and black spot, I wanted to make sure this interaction is legit.

Black spot is cast on a heavy infantry unit. Let's say gators, or manowar demo corps.

Arcuarii shoots with the harpoon at effective rat 8, hits damages, drags. The pow 12 weaponmaster arcus swings and probably kills it.

Black spot triggers, second harpoon attack. Drag another one, another arcus swing, dead.

Black spot says "Attacks gained from Black Spot cannot generate additional attacks
from Black Spot."

The second arcus swing wasn't gained from black spot, it was gained from the Drag rule, and is specifically a "basic melee attack". Thus, that should trigger Black Spot again for another harpoon shot, yeah? Letting that one dude potentially kill every model in that unit within 8 inches, and the other 5 guys can do whatever. Maybe there's a light beast or jack nearby they can drag over and have a go at. Point is, seems nice. And with ashen veil and a krea they can actually survive some unboosted shooting.

>>47655624
Yeah, unless it's been changed in mk3 this is legit.
You could do it with a Reaper and Skarre in mk2 as well

>>47655159
In no world should winterguard be cheaper than Steelhead Halberdiers.

>>47655809
I dunno, def 15 vs charges is pretty legit. Reach and pow 11, they jam far better than wgi does. Maybe make them both 10.

>>47655858
A pow 12 ranged attack and combined makes them more valuable than steelheads. Vs shooting a 13/13 statline isn't really any better than a 12/13, and that's how they always die. Or the Halberdiers engage and the set defense doesn't matter.

>>47651579
Battlebox, Optifexes, Angels.

I still really like the look of Convergence but holy hell I want no part of building the models.

>>47654692
I'm not sure if that applies to wgi and wgrc. Some cheap jacks and bane knights for sure

Anyone have a 3e Gunnbjorn list going yet? I consider buying just a list for him, out of the faction.

How much use is there in Templar and Repenter?
Should i purchase them for my jack lists or Redeemer is way better than Repenter and Crusader or any of other chassises better than Templar? I just dont really see use for templar nowadays and with buff to Cleansers i do not see any use of Repenter really.

>>47657769
Double War Wagon
Pygmies
Fire Eaters
Pyre
Dozer

should probably still fit

>>47657842

Which sort of Pyg? Bushwhackers still seem mediocre, and Burrowers took a big hit.

>>47657862
Don't have the troll deck but in mk2 that list used Burrowers.

>>47655858


Halberdiers at 10 points would be legitimately OP. They're already a steal at 11

>>47657799
Yeah those are the jacks that really suffered from the choir nerf. Now, I'd rather bring Guardians, Indictors, Redeemers, Sanctifiers, and a Vigilant. Plus all the awesome characters who are mostly one point more than the Templar.

So apparently the keynote is 9:00pm Pacific time on Saturday, and should have something about the forces books in it. Hopefully the new hordes faction they've been hinting about will be interesting at least, I haven't been interested in the last two they've done at all.

>>47648979
>>47648821
>>47648588
>>47648534
Chior the def 12 arm 12 single wound infantry. ...yes just the impervious 4 point support unit that you have to have to run Jacks well in menoth.
I'm not paying 10 points for a crusader I'm paying 10 + 4-6 points for the chior and 4 points for a vassal.
With premeasure a faster jack or war beast should get the alpha and cripple the Crusader (except you kahdor.)

I freely admit the chior nerf was needed and deserved. Mat 8 or 9 (psevy) Jacks are insane. Or mat 11 character jacks.

But I'd you know anything about Menoth you know to kill the support first.

I was mostly complaing about the implied progression for jacks

13/17
12/18
11/19
10/20

>>47658920
>I'm not paying 10 points for a crusader I'm paying 10 + 4-6 points for the chior and 4 points for a vassal.
One 'jack = one choir member. So it's not "10+4-6", it's "All of my jacks + 4-6".

I never knew how annoying Menoth players were until I stopped playing Menoth.

Choir are just icing on the cake, you don't have to take them to make use of excellent cheap jacks, but they are so good it feels stupid not to take them.

>>47659144
Not all of us are salty whiners. Also, obligatory Skorne players comment.

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Anyone else joining the glorious mindwipe race?

>traded an army for cephalyx army
>can't shake the itch away, want to trade even more
>can't afford to keep my gators around, so they'll have to go

>>47641175
When you say "old edition"
If you mean boxes of miniatures; then you are fine, do eet faggot.
If you mean the books, then stop, don't do that. The miniatures last forever, the rules change.

>>47641283
you're still spouting inane bullshit.
But I suppose you're saying that you have trouble against infantry swarms, and the pies/pizzas you speak of are Area of effect weapons that would be useful against an infantry horde?

>>47659167
You kinda have to though. Pow 16 and 17 is what I had to suffer through all of mk2 with Mercs, to the point where as soon as the Colossals came out all other jacks got shelved. The only Protectorate jacks that really don't need the choir damage buff are the crusader, guardian and Avatar, and even then they want it for no spells and no nonmagic shooting. They're pretty much universally required.

>>47659176
Nope. Cephalyx are cucks.

>>47659144
It goes with the job.
Being an ex-Menite though it means you're annoying too.

>>47659196
>Still doesn't get that it was a more humorous rewrite of an unintelligible post

>>47655624
you gained a shot via blackspot, so you can't get another shot from the shot you gained from black spot.
Even if you got some other attacks in between.
The trigger was the shot.

stop trying to cheat.

>>47655442
/nice

I got dahlia and skarath real cheap just before Mk3 was announced.

Who else has had some nice deals?

>>47654663
Yes, Rembrandt always did really good bases for his Hordes models.

>>47659228
Nah man, it works.
>1) Make Ranged Attack That Triggers Drag
>2) Drag Generates Free Melee Attack
>3) Melee Attack Generates Black Spot Attack
>4) Make Ranged Attack That Triggers Drag
>5) Drag Generates Free Melee Attack
etc.

Black Spot Attack never generates another Black Spot Attack

>>47659228
It's not cheating. The harpoon triggers drag and the melee triggers Black Spot. The chain can only keep going if you hit and damage but don't kill on the shot, and hit and kill on the melee. In practice it's not as good as on paper.

>>47659206
In mk3 there are 6 pow 18 (19 for avatar) 'jacks: Avatar, Crusader, FoS, Guardian, HoJ, Scourge of Heresy. Ofc they are pow 20 (21) with choir. And pow 21 (22) with Severius

>>47643417
The wait is almost over.
It's this upcoming weekend !!
Then we'll see rivers of tears flow.

However from what I've heard from the French leaks, this "new edition" is more akin to a Mk2 prime than an actual edition change. There are some changes, but nothing too drastic.

btw nice going Victoria games - handing out the cards and rules to people that aren't even PGs - yes apparently something like 20 people got to see the rules and cards, and took them to that tournament in eastern europe.
But victoria games doesn't give a shit, the guy who runs it think he owns PP in europe.

>>47659207
>tfw you can't get free focus from damage
>tfw your jacks drop focus
>tfw you can't get mindwiped with sweet waifu pictures

>>47659307
Dont you mean the prime remix

Is bethayne still useful in mk3? Thinking about getting a new lock for legion.
What about thagrosh or abbey normal?

>>47659665
Don't know much about legion but heard beth is one of the better legion casters in mk3

>>47658920
The jack faction of the game has 10/19 and 11/18 jacks

>>47660075
I didn't think Protectorate had any 11/18s

>>47659248
Got brand new Trencher unit with all the works dirt cheap of eBay, suddenly trenchers become gold. Good times.

>>47659228
It's not so much cheating as it's "not knowing the infernal ruling". And in his defence, those are fucking easy to miss.

Black spot attacks can currently only trigger the same kind of attack. So melee attacks only trigger melee attacks and ranged attacks only ever trigger ranged attacks.

>>47660402
I'll wait for the mk3 infernal ruling then. Because the mk2 one doesn't apply, and the wording definitely says "additional melee or ranged".

>>47660402
Just double checked

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?12765-Drag-Black-Spot&p=281551&viewfull=1#post281551

Infernal says the drag trick is legit. The harpoon is the initial attack, because the drag generated attack isn't an initial.

>>47655442
the protector is honestly a pretty nice caster buff. and it was super easy to assemble, like all the nephilim really.

>>47659228
>accuses people of cheating
>doesn't understand the rules to begin with
do you happen to play cygnar? or legion?

>>47659307
Calling it: no trample changes.

Does anyone have a link to the khador deck. The mega ones don't seem to work

>>47660893
Khador-deck.pdf
http://www111.zippyshare.com/v/Ukue72kq/file.html

>>47659665
Beth is interesting. In mk2 you either built for her feet (hex hunters, throne, other shit with spells) or for her spell list (croak raiders were great, as were gators etc).

That's all totally changed. Lost Gallows, lost Eruption of Spines. Now she's more of a combined arms caster, who wants to take infantry since her feat gives Flank (FF warbeast). and she has a spell that turns her into a super-solo when melded, and another that's an ARM debuff. she's very acid-themed this time around. What sucks is her buffs are all FF, so there's not much synergy running croaks with her for acidic oil gourds anymore. She'll still want Spell Martyrs to put Venom across a line of infantry.

Swordsmen go to +5d6 on the charge on feat turn though. So I think bring a bunch of shredders and lighter heavies, and set up the feat for a lot of synergistic flank attacks. Blight blades + extended control Raeks make for some fun in the backfield too.

>>47660194
Convergence is the jack faction. PoM is certainly close, but isn't quite at the power of COC with jacks.

>>47660960
This is one thing that sucks about MKIII. By making everything Faction based they screwed over mercs in any meaningful way. They should of made sure that every faction has a merc supporting caster in some fashion.

>>47660928
You are a fucking saint!

So I know the official line is that 75 is the new 50, and it makes sense given the increase in 'jack points. Maybe it's just because I'm a Khador player not used to having so few points to spend on troops, but 75 points feel small. I'm finding list building to feel more like the old 35, where support is minimal and there are several things that I'd really like to bring but can't fit.

For that reason, 100 points is sounding just as appealing to me as 75 and 50 seems very low. Given that points have to be spent on 'jacks, the model count increase when you go from the old 50 to the new 100 seems like it would be pretty low.

Lord Arbiter Hexeris (102)
* Titan Gladiator 14
* Titan Cannoneer 17
* Titan Sentry 15
* Razor Wurm 7
* Agonizer 7

Max Cataphract Cetrati 20
Max Beast Handlers 7

Willbreaker 4
Aptimus Marketh 6
Orin Midwinter 4

>ONLY 101 POINTS REEEEEEEEEEEE

>>47661296
75 is the old 35. The difference is you're now working with about 30 points of non-jacks because they putt hat last 5 into jack points. You basically trade a solo or 2 to upgrade your light jack into a heavy jack or get an extra light list building wise.

>>47661324
> 75 is the old 35
No. 75 is the old 50, with more points changed to WJP. In fact you can build approximately similar lists for new 75 and old 50, if you spent a lot on warjacks before.

Anyone got the cygnar deck? Much obliged.

>>47661392
i have only this
http://imgur.com/a/0LEvy

>>47661347
The question is, do people want to run the same amount of infantry and just put 1-2 jacks in to make it 100 points

>>47660878
You can now trample over smaller bases.

>>47661470
Hold the presses!

>>47661410
1-2 jacks is similar to old 50. For example, 50pts Skarre 2 list from WTC2015. Old list, new costs:

Skarre 2 (+26) -26

Deathjack : 23
Nightmare : 18
Bane Riders (max) : 20
Satyxis Raiders (max) : 16
Satyxis Sea Witch : 3
Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls : 4
Satyxis Raider Captain : 4
Darragh Wrathe : 9
Gorman di Wulfe : 4
Ogrun Bokur : 5

Total: 80. Only 5 pts more.
And 15 pts spent on 'jack is over WJP.. With 100 pts it wouldn't be "same amount" it would be much larger list.

>>47661470
>>47661473
Oh. SmallER. I see. Not going to happen.

>>47661477
I mean like extra jacks

>>47661407
merci

What jack will you run with Karchev? Behemoth is as always an obvious choice. Is Beast worth it or is it better to go cheap spam afterwards? Also what other units do you think will go well with him? Except for a Wardog and mechanics I don't see why he would take any more non-jack units. Opinions on Bokur vs Rager?

>>47661625
>Bokur vs Rager?
How many points are they each? Because aside from that why would you ever prefer the Bokur?

>>47661124
croaks are still really good with legion. they just don't benefit quite as much. croaks are taken largely to oil before using all of the faction's many fire effects.

with other factions you still have ranking officers. i don't see it as a problem that faction buffs generally don't help you. mercs can still provide a lot of utility, buffs or no. in mk2, legion loved the totem hunter, even with casters that did nothing for him, because he provided excellent spot removal. i doubt this kind of merc will have trouble finding work.

>>47661644
Rager is 11 while Bokur is only 5. I guess if you're short on points you could go Bokur

>>47661470
yeah i doubt this will be a thing, that removes one of the biggest benefits of medium infantry.

>>47661477
where's the kraken? skarre2 is always gonna want a kraken this ed imo

also neurosurgeons can't heal skarre anymore so they're pointless in this list

>>47661410
Effectively meaning that Jacks are NOT fixed. If Jacks are such a burden that you instantly want to upgrade to a higher points cost to get more infantry and solos, then jacks are still things PP is effectively PAYING you to take.

But that benefits PP because people play with more points. In the next edition of WM Warjacks will just be flat out free.

That is unless we get some solid rules for warjacks.

>>47661716
Infantry casters will continue mostly using infantry while jack casters and combined arms casters got buffed. We will see how meta goes

>>47661716
jacks are much, much better now - power up did a lot for them, as did WJP paying for on average 2+ heavy jacks, versus maybe 1 light.

the big problem really is that very few jacks will bring the quantity of attacks of any infantry.

>>47660968
>Convergence
>Faction

>>47661755
Exactly. Not only that but buffed infantry is still better then a single buffed jack.

Even in terms of endurance its harder to completely destroy a unit then it is to destroy a warjack.

A unit can hold multiple control points, and if I am not mistaken (Been a while since I read them) but contolling a zone is a numeretical numbers thing, and a solo warjack is worse then multiple things for control.

Jacks are better, but units remain best.

Goddamit PP.

>>47661741
except kraye who now has an identity crisis

>>47661696
> where's the kraken? skarre2 is always gonna want a kraken this ed imo
Ask author, I took that list from discpuntgames tournament section.

> also neurosurgeons can't heal skarre anymore so they're pointless in this list
Yes, it's not about effectiveness in mk3, it's about ability to build same list, so I changed nothing

>>47661794
There must be losers every edition

>>47661788
multiple models will always have better action economy than one with these rules
you cannot fix that unless you suddenly decide that actions per round are now decided by base size

>>47661863
Yeah, more free actions and more flexible actions for warjacks is my argument. And possibly more actions for medium infantry.

But yeah thats exactly my point. Do they want balance or the facimile of balance that will encourage buying more stuff.

Well the latter, but there is hope that a company could be better.

>>47661825
I just wish the losers were every s tier caster and concept from the previous edition for once.

Infantry came out relatively unscathed as a concept. Jacks just became free. Still fundamentally flawed on mechanics.

*sigh*

I guess I expected too much from 3rd edition. List building still feels like it has a weight to it that I am uncomfortable with ,especially with the local rich boy culture of buying everything that is considered OP and playing it until it gets nerfed.


There was a point in time where 5 put of our 9 locals switched to Trollbloods for EE.

Ugh.

I'm going into this edition with some major caution. I feel like I'm getting too old for this shit as is.

>>47661914
There is a reason why PP rarely discloses design philosophy except for the units already popular.

>>47661914
Yes, poor gaspy2 dethroned when none of his peers were

>>47661764
You're right. Should have been
>Best Faction

>>47661788
Anti infantry hate has gotten more efficient and more common as well. Units are easier to remove, and most heavy infantry options lost durability as well.

With the loss of most easy overall damage buffs, jacks are easily the best durable options for holding zones

>>47661764
yeah you're right this maymay is the dankest and not totally played out ok sure

>>47661788
a single model is all that's needed to contest, but you need half of a unit's original strength to control a zone with it alone (at least in mk2).

>>47662151
this is also true. anti-infantry hate is alive and well. there's not much proliferation of things to fix it and some infantry has gotten worse i think to force it to have greater shortcomings against anti-infantry (bane thralls lose stealth, ATGMs lose true sight, satyxis lose AD, just for a few examples). the biggest buff to infantry has frankly been iron flesh providing blast damage immunity

>>47662151
Has it? Really? Think about the anti infantry stuff that doesn't come from other infantry. Its still about as good as it was before.

>>47661392
This guy made a drive for them.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE&usp=drive_web

>>47662197
Most AOEs got bigger. You saw changes like Durgen or eFeora in terms of setting shit on fire with their jacks. And the changes to artillery look great for killing infantry.

>>47662106
Cryx is no longer PP's max-coddle snowflake faction, that title has been regained by Cygnar

>>47662236
Most units are also dependent on their standards to keep their old command ranges, providing a pretty big weak link to reducing their effectiness.

Anti tough tech also got an insane boost, making using tough infantry to hold zones far less reliable.

>>47662281
Well that has convinced me to give another go at least.

>>47662274
Oh really
I know Stormwall happened, but Cygnar releases are nothing special really

>>47662325
Cygnar has overall gotten a lot better in mk3 (even if the storm wall got a much needed toning down). Not saying it didn't deserve to. The faction is better off not having total crutch casters and models.

>>47662274
Well, cryx really is the noob stomping faction and can be the skill band aide. But once you get to the level where your opponents aren't brain dead, it becomes like any other faction.

>>47662385
Time of haley2 being merc caster is over!