Pathfinder General /pfg/

>Here's the GitP thread for it:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?452172-Dreamscarred-Press-Presents-quot-Arcforge-Technology-Expanded-quot

Thanks heaps brah

Can my PCs find mechs and then activate them? Or do they need to start off with one?

>>47615340
Without the feats/class features I think they just can't repair or upgrade them? Classify them as companion vehicles or something.

>>47615340
The archetypes come with one if it says they do. One of the feats gives you one.

>>47615273
I would like to be a Hellknight.

A Signifier, preferably. Entry via Inquisitor.

>>47615340
There are currently no rules for using them if you do not have pilot levels.

IF you have any class that grants you pilot levels though, it's unclear whether a mech will be lowered to your level or whether you cannot use a mech of the appropriate level, but any mech you can qualify for is perfectly fine, whether you built it or found it in the trash.

>>47615273
I wanna be a cleric 1/wizard x/Hellnight Signifier x

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I'd be down to play a Hellknight. Preferably in the Order of the Scourge, Nail, Pike, or Pyre.

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>>47615685
Oh right he'd be a part of the order of the Gate and look like pic related

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>>47615740
What is this, a Hellknight for ANTS?!?

And that is their standard attire yaknow.

>>47615767
I know, I mighy shoop the mask a bit thoigh so ot looks less like a puckered up ass

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At what point does boosting the 30 ft-ranged touch attack that is Mystic Bolts turn into absolute, totally busted madness?

>Int-to-damage
>free action activation for the Arcane Strike feat
>enhancement bonus to attack and damage, no special weapon abilities
>increase crit range to 19-20/2x and attack range to 40 ft
>adds all the damage together before applying elemental resistances
>pierces up to 20 elemental resistance
>can pick one element, can tell an enemy with that immunity to go fuck itself and pierce through it

Reminder of the following
>All forms of TWF work with melee and ranged versions
>Rapid Shot works with and stacks with the above
>T O U C H A T T A C K S

>>47615536
>>47615546
>>47615641
Thanks heaps brahs, that certainly puts a dampener on things. Maybe if a character has an affinity for them, they could get a virtual pilot level.

There's a Mech Piloting feat, which only psionic characters can take
Mech Piloting [Psionic]
You’ve gained access to a powerful techno-psionic suit.
Prerequisites: Psicrystal Affinity, Psi-Core Upgrade, TechnologistTG, manifester level 5th .
Benefit: You gain access to a bonded mech as a pilot of your character level -4. If you later gain a mech through another source, the effective pilot level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources, up to your total character level. While piloting a psi-mech suit your psi-core must be in the mainframe configuration.

But there's also a Craft Mech feat where it says if someone has the keys/control mechanism to the mech, they can also pilot it
Craft Mech
You can craft powerful warmachines, called mechs.
Prerequisites: Technologist, Craft (mechanical) 11 ranks, Knowledge (engineering) 11 ranks
Benefit: You can create mechs. Any character with access to the vehicle’s key or other control mechanism may drive and use this vehicle. Creating a mech takes 1 week for every 1,000 gp in the item's price. To create the object, you must use up raw materials costing half of this total price. See Non-Companion Mechs and Vehicles for more information.
You can repair a broken mech if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the raw materials and half the time it would take to craft the mech from scratch.

Don't lie to me /pfg/, what are your thoughts on the hybrid classes?
Good idea poor executed?
Wasted potential?
Goddamn need more of them?

>>47615942
Some are good, some are not. They vary.

>>47615273
I've been wanting to put a Hellknight Deceiver build together for a while now, but haven't found a game that'll accommodate it yet.

>>47615942
it depends

>>47615942

Mixed bag.

The Investigator, Slayer, Bloodrager, and Brawler were all very nice additions to the game, in my opinion.

Hunter and Skald are all right, haven't had much experience with them, though.

Arcanist, Shaman, Warpriest all felt unnecessary and didn't allow for more interesting hybrids to be attempted. Only the serious revision to the Hunter allowed it to avoid entering this category as well. The motherfucker who sat down to write Arcane Exploits and then decided after the playtest the class needed a buff needs to be punched in the goddamn face.

Swashbuckler was a good idea with utterly horrendous execution.

>>47615992
You mean J "Casters need better things than the martials" Bulhman?

What made the swashbuckler utterly horrendous mechanically?

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>>47615942
Like many of the Paizo-made classes, they're pretty solid as long as you stick to the Tier 1-3 classes. Beyond that and you get caught in the caster-martial disparity that's been a plague since 3.5.

I can understand Paizo not wanting to reinvent the wheels while they're taking over the car, but you can only do so much when you're running on bad tires, ya know?

>>47616032

>Hybrid of two classes with good fort saves has a bad fort save
>A class heavily based upon swift actions is also heavily reliant on a defensive class feature that prevents you from using swift actions on your following turn
>A martial class has a limited but highly important resource that runs out faster than spells
>A class billed as a "mobile fighter" has no abilities that help it move around in battle besides one small, limited boost to climb, swim, and acrobatics/escape artist
>The class is meant to be a dex-to-damage type but Paizo's burning hatred for dexterity-to-damage keeps coming into play to make it jump through hoops the rogue does not
>There's a cavalier archetype in the SAME BOOK that is basically a strictly better version of the class
>Despite being panned as very underpowered in the playtest, precisely none of the complaints about the class were addressed

>>47616102
To be 100% fair, Precise Strike gives more of a damage bonus than you're going to get from dexterity, with no panache cost.

Unless you're fighting something immune to Precision. Or are getting crits. Which you often will since the class is designed for rapiers.

>>47616144

I also like that they didn't realize they made it easier for the swashbuckler to have a dexterity-focused build with the fucking BATTLEAXE than a Rapier until they released a hasty patch feat to get rapiers in on that action.

>>47615892
Nevertheless, your pilot level is the max level of mech you can handle - as explained... only in the fucking Eclipse's description (good job ssalarn, do try to fix that!)

>>47615891

I've been wanting to make a Warlock but I've found it shit. Teach me your (legal) tricks, sempai

>>47615891
>At what point does boosting the 30 ft-ranged touch attack that is Mystic Bolts turn into absolute, totally busted madness?

Just give it range akin to Close spells (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) and it should be reasonable.

>>47616102
At least it gets improved crit for free at level 5, but yeah.

>>47615891
Never.
>40 foot range
cuckish
>relying on damage dealing
Literally the worst strategy
>free Clustered shots
Oh wow that's so incredible (not)
>being able to bypass a little resistance
Shitty knockoff of actual weapon enhancement bonus bypassing DR.

cuck/10 would never use.

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Privateer archetype. You give up basically nothing if you're a Stalker ("oh no, not BLENDING") and your Warleader stuff as a Warlord, which hurts, but secretly you're relieved not to have to spend any actions not being personally awesome.

You get a jumble of cute, fluffy benefits, replace your entire list of Disciplines with a hybrid list (this I think makes the archetype universally incompatible with just about every other archetype, yes?) and...get access to ploys.

Most ploys are very good.

Sea Combat, tho.

You treat ranged attacks with firearms against adjacent opponents as melee attacks in every way. In EVERY way, specifically calling out using Strength for attack and damage, Power Attacking, strikes, feats, and other abilities, and you treat one-handed firearms as light (!) and do not need a hand free to reload them (!!!) so you don't always have to play a fucking tiefling (!!!!!). They don't get the benefit of FEATS that assume ranged attacks, but nothing else is called out - presumably anything that works with firearms and isn't a feat still works with them.

So now you basically have melee-range high-damage touch attack weapons with huge crits, some feat-gating, and a lot of gold overhead. Aside from being the most badass Mithral Current master to ever live (touch attack + flatfooted goes together very nicely for the rare, rare enemy who can handle just touch attacks) what can you do with this? My mind is spinning with possibilities.

(They can also free-action demoralize in 30 feet when they succeed at a gambit, but honestly who can't at this point)

>>47616218
If you've got other Swift actions you want to do, the Stamina trick for Arcane Strike lets you spend points to increase its duration. So if you spend two points, it lasts for three rounds.

Also, the trick for Riving Strike also extends THAT's duration, so you can make it last long enough for your own spells to take advantage of it.

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Is bloat a big problem with this game now?

I'm just getting back into this and GMing a campaign, and I'm seriously considering just going core-only. Or at least limiting it to the ultimate books and APG/ARG.

I'm reading about character builds on the Paizo forums that have me worried.

>>47616335

Core only is awful. You're usually gonna be able to keep on top of everything if you go PRD-only, although tellingly pretty much everything that's made the Fighter better of late has not been in books that go on the PRD.

>>47616335
Never listen to complaints on the paizo forums.

We've had people bitching about Press To The Wall being overpowered, because oh no, a rogue was able to use it to more easily get flanking.

In a fucking PFS dungeon.

>>47616335
It's still better than 3.5's bloat I think, but it's there. The bright side though is that most of the stuff that's published in companions is usable by Martials or 6th level casters, so it's not all boosting Wizards.

>>47616207
Say that in the thread.

>>47616357
And don't forget the people arguing tooth and nail about how Humans need a boost to their power because Dwarves overshadow them.

>>47616335
I feel like the SRD does a lot to help with bloat. There's a lot of options, but having them all in one place (and by that I mean your choice of like 3 different "one places") makes it way easier to keep track. Even if there's more content than 3.5 had, I've never felt nearly as overwhelmed as I did making 3.5 characters.

>>47616376

I seem to recall someone questioning if Armored Hulk Dwarf Barbarians were OP because they could use Armored Swiftness without having a move speed reduction from heavy armor.

>>47616348

In what way do you think Core only would be awful?

>>47616335
>Bloat
Not really. the SRD keeps it from being awful about bloat - Bloat is only a problem when you can't just punch in the rule you're looking for into a search bar.

>Paizo forums
Hugbox of idiots. This isn't even 4chan's usual exaggeration this time - the devs often ban people with conflicting views. Don't pay attention to them.

>Core Only
Do NOT. Seriously, the worst imbalances in the game are in the core rulebook, and cutting off a wide variety of rules is a good way to create imbalances. More options is a good thing in this game, not a bad thing.

>>47616335
PF doesn't have a bloat problem in anywhere near the ways 3.5 had. The issue 3.5 had is tht they kept putting out broker and broker shit. PF's most broke shit is still the Wizard. Core-only only serves to maintain PF's inherent balance issues.

>>47616393
Because the only interesting/good classes are the T1 casters. All the stuff that makes Monks, Rogues, and even fucking Fighters interesting to use or even reaching T3 is in non-CRB material.

>>47616335
The real trick is to make sure everyone's roughly on the same level of optimization, and from there you can go with whatever.

For example, if you've got a party of massive AoE and ranged damage dealers, obviously their heroics should be less about going on some dumb errand while the real party retrieved the all-important artifact for Iomedae, and more about fighting off an invading army like Guan-Yu on the fucking bridge.

Where shit falls the fuck apart is if you try to run newbie monks through an AP, or a group with a wizard and cleric through an AP, or try to do some kind of social adventure with a wizard and a cleric, or any kind of campaign where there's a CRB-Only-Rogue stuck with a bunch of druids and master summoners.

>>47616357
>>47616376

I thought it was just me, but some of the people on the Paizio forums just seem like horrible autistic people to GM for. They didn't seem to be quite that bad a couple years back, I even ran a few PbP games and have fun doing so.

Just as a tip, never run Adventure Paths on PbP forums with strangers, stick to modules or PFS scenarios or one-offs. Even the most dedicated RPers lose interest after six months, and players drop out all the time.

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What are some good classes for some kind of Centaur knight? Is the Charger cavalier archetype any good? It looks a little bland aside from bonus lance damage.

I'm not sure if 3pp is allowed or not. Feel free to suggest stuff, but just in case I'd like some 1pp ideas too.

>>47616393
Core is literally the greatest source of imbalance in the system. Core-Only is as bad as it gets.

It fields the worst weakest classes (monks, rogues, fighters) and the very strongest classes (The 9th level casters), with some of the worst fucking feats, and most of the metamagics, some of the strongest Save-Or spells, and some of the dumbest class abilities...

All in the same book.

>>47616335
Core-only is garbage. Look into PoW to help bring martials up and look to things like Ertw's Beguiler to pull caster power levels down.

>>47616335
Bloat is EXTREME, but you have to learn all of it, because otherwise you're fucking your players and creating a shitty gamestate that barely manages to improve over 3.5.

Bloat and Pathfinder are essentially synonymous. Overflowing oceans of bizarre option combination possibilities and layered archetypes and shenanigans for days, weeks, months, years. >>47616373 is wrong, there is now far more bullshit you need to track in Pathfinder than there was in 3.5 at its height. Archetypes alone are fucking insane.

Look up a modern, updated discussion of the tier lists - good luck! - and start by just allowing things that are Tier 3 and 4 into consideration (that excludes basically all full casters) and work your way up to Tier 2 next game. Never go beyond Tier 2 for any reason.

Accept the following paradigm: if your mages are unable to solve ANY GIVEN situation in three spellcasts, either they're slow-witted or you're trying too hard. If your martial players cannot kill an average of one enemy every 1.5 rounds, they're bad or you're trying too hard. If that doesn't sound great to you, try D&D 5E, Exalted, any FATE system/setting, Chronicles of Darkness (Dark Eras for all your medieval fantasy needs), branch out into stuff like Eclipse Phase or Wushu, get serious about your gaming and upgrade to GURPS, uh, do literally anything else.

Ditto if you aren't excited and aroused by bloat. I have as much nostalgia as anyone, but there is NOTHING in Pathfinder to keep you EXCEPT FOR the trillions of recombinable options that allow you to do whatever bizarre fanfic bullshit you want. 5E is in every way a better game if you stay d20, but only GURPS (and I guess technically FATE-esque light systems) can match Pathfinder's breadth and that's more like if you want to want a game about undead Nazis using steampunk mecha and rare, aggressive botanical hybrid strains to take over Europe and you want exhaustive build-your-own subsystems for every part of that.

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>>47616550
>Accept the following paradigm: if your mages are unable to solve ANY GIVEN situation in three spellcasts, either they're slow-witted or you're trying too hard. If your martial players cannot kill an average of one enemy every 1.5 rounds, they're bad or you're trying too hard.

>>47616289
>feature that is basically just damage is the only unique thing about a class
>only real way to make it do anything that /isn't/ just damage is to just slap spell combat and spellstrike on it

what do you want from me, anon, I'm already trying to make a shitty feature worth at least SOMETHING.

>>47616102
So Paizo have no idea what they're doing

>>47616550
>Honestly being this much of a cuck in the year of our lord 2016

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>>47616657
only sometimes.
the rest of the time they're giving people exactly what they want: stronger full-caster options and retardedly offensive shit errata nerfing martial options that had been fine for years with an attitude as if they were minor typos just barely missed from last week at the printers.

>>47616550

I've played 5e and FATE. They can be fun. But they don't reward my mastery of the system, do they?

I'm irrationally fond of 3.5/PF though because reasons. Probably because we had a great time doing Carrion Crown a few years back.

>>47616541
This is the answer right here. If you want a game with reasonable balance, avoid Paizo completely.

>>47616597
It's true for all adventure paths and modules. The degree to which Your Special Game can divert without piles of restrictions and buffed encounters isn't 0, but it's not a lot, and it depends on an experienced GM who can tailor and fine-tune without just being a dick. Bluntly speaking, there aren't many of those.

People like to tote the one-action-one-encounter magic bullet paradigm for wizards, but in my experience there's usually a spell or two of setup. If you're using Path of War, the insane damage (don't fight it, you know it's fucking true) output combined with mobility and multiple-targeting options means it's more like 1.5 enemies every round, but otherwise the numbers hold.

>>47616657
Regardless of our personal stances, every single person in this general will agree with that.

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>>47615273

I do!

Actually can I be a Zweihander Sentinel Ordained Defender Warder? I promise to take Black Seraph and smite the dregs of society and women for Asmodeus!

>>47616754
I feel like Paizo on the whole don't know what they're doing.

Some people in there are alright. But they have to sneak past the people who don't, and feel like weapon cords were OP.

Weapon Master's Handbook must-a been a fucking natural 20, I tell you that much.

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>>47616756
>For Asmodeus

You poor fool.

>>47616796
>If I can't do it, someone with 18 in all stats can't possibly pull it off, it would be unrealistic
>If it's vancian magic, it's never unreasonable no matter what, no problem!

>Uh... does that mean we ARE, or we AREN'T getting chinese tonight for the playtest?
>WHAT? What do you MEAN fighters who fall 20 stories don't necessarily die?

>>47616796

I'm curious to see if Paizo's developers will ever even MENTION Advanced Weapon Training or Advanced Armor Training in a book from the precious RPG line.

Some more Weapon Mastery feats would be nice, too.

>>47616728
5E lightly rewards system mastery when you get into intelligent multiclassing and cute things like shield rogues or dragon aspirant bards, but yeah, it's got a low optimization ceiling and a nice high floor. Very friendly game, not for system masters.

FATE absolutely rewards system mastery, it's just a different kind of system mastery. You don't need to know what feats to take (because you make them up) you need to know what's inherently valuable and how to negotiate. It's more...I guess creative instead of comprehensive, you have to see where power could be instead of understanding what power looks like, but it's still strategic. Also, it's nice that engaging with and inflicting your will upon the setting is mechanically optimal.

I understand the love for PF, but the flaws are inescapable. The way system mastery in PF works can be rewarding when your oddball concept feels good to play, but it's also the source of a lot of pain and suffering, like dating your bully after you've learned how to stay on his good side. Yeah, the sex is awesome, but there's still lots of things you can't do, and somewhere out there you know there are victims whose tears are the echoes of your stolen youth.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/baleful-shadow-transmutation

So.. this spell doesn't has the "no more than 1HD" limit like Baleful Polymorph, and you can change creature into other humanoid.

What sort of magical realm can I do with this?

>>47616796
Here's the thing with weapon cords.
Paizo expects martials to need at least one or two feats (Improved+Greater disarm) to become good at disarming.

Even then, you're useless against enemies that don't use weapons.
And then even when you could be useful, if every martial you fought had swift action weapon retrieval and can pick their weapon up and full attack you next turn anyway, then you might as well not have bothered at all.

Disarm is already almost made obsolete by Dirty Trick, swift action weapon cords make it even worse.

>>47616822

Its okay he's a double agent.

>>47616907
Gelatinous cubes. Just don't need to breath, be immune to acid, it's like a vibrating fleshlight for your whole body that can also stuff your assorted orifices and quiver indignantly.

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>>47616852
Magic Tactics Toolbox bro, it's got possibly the best new Advanced Weapon Training option in it.

>>47615992

Warpriest gets a pass because its the only way to play a Sacred Fist anymore.

>>47616945
Only humanoid or animal though. Ooze isn't either.

>>47616950

Those are pretty nice, but I mean one of their big hyped up books like Ultimate Intrigue or Occult Adventures was. The RPG line that goes on the PRD.

It feels like the good shit is in these side books.

>>47616550

>unironically suggesting 5e or Exalted

looooooooool

>>47616887
>I understand the love for PF, but the flaws are inescapable. The way system mastery in PF works can be rewarding when your oddball concept feels good to play, but it's also the source of a lot of pain and suffering, like dating your bully after you've learned how to stay on his good side. Yeah, the sex is awesome, but there's still lots of things you can't do, and somewhere out there you know there are victims whose tears are the echoes of your stolen youth.

Damn, son

>>47617023
Oh I get what you mean. It's unfortunate, but it probably won't since it's an optional ruleset that was printed in a companion book. Best we can hope for is more of them in more companion books.

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>>47616962
Oh. Well, a cat is fine too.

>>47616754

>If you're using Path of War, the insane damage (don't fight it, you know it's fucking true) output combined with mobility and multiple-targeting options means it's more like 1.5 enemies every round, but otherwise the numbers hold.


Your salt is showing. Also,

>not maximizing HP on their enemies and giving them prep time and at least one counter for any 'magic bullet' solutions from a PC caster

Cuck detected.

I need help naming a place; it’s a ziggurat where every level has a shrine dedicated to a specific Demon Lord. Cultist, worshipers or anyone trying to curry favor from a Demon Lord can try to climb the steps of the ziggurat in their name and rededicate the shrines to their patron. The shrines are obviously protected by increasingly powerful guardians but the higher above others one places their patron the better with highest level having a gate to the abyss control by the top dog.
It’s basically a dick measuring contest by proxy between demon lords, with a different demon lords controlling each level.

>>47617042
i mean is he wrong? holden and morke are liars etc etc but aside from that its pretty playable. idk about 5e, i played a rogue, it was great, but rogues are always great so.

>>47617116

Its all the same problems of 2e shifted slightly to the left. You guys need to stop drinking the cool aid. Take whatever cool setting ideas you like and play it in a better system.

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Playing Pathfinder is pic related, but why are we all doing it?

>>47617134
>>47617147
Because I can't find a shadowrun group.

>>47617101
>>47616289
>>47616672

back to /pol/, kittens. here in /tg/ none of us have ever felt a woman's touch, except for those of us who are women, so there's nothing to cuck except our dreams - and post-college careers already accomplished that, regardless of which faggot you give power over, or even if you're one of those neogoth anarchists types since you've given your life over to the biggest faggot of all, yourself.

shoo shoo, little ones. hop like a bunny. it's too sad here for your spicy memes.

>>47616945
Plus if you arm them with XASERS and Railguns, or at least some automatics, their 60ft blindsight range stops being a problem!

... Sorta.

Us: the struggling hermit crab
That engulfing thing/worm: Paizo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pExGvAO3lQk

>>47617155

That's not much better, but at least its not Exalted.

Which edition?

>>47617101
Closer to 1/rd, rather than 1.5
Of course superchargers, proper barbarians, heavy paladins, etc are all on the same level of output.

>>47617236
5e, because it's the only one I know.

I'm having a rousing good time with pure tier 1-3 with optimized PoW characters and more laid back full casters in the same party. Lets the DM throw dickheads with SLAs and magic at us more safely, while also giving his melee brutes maneuvers to scare the shit out of said spellcasters.

I suggest trying it!

>>47617134
i legitimately enjoy initiative combat. BP/XP, counterattacks, solar doombot, and wyldfailing are dumb as FUCK, but that's not even a page of houserules, no trouble to me. as someone who's been playing it a while, i am honestly having fun.

craft is bad but our twilight likes it so i haven't admittedly tackled that one yet. but she likes it, does it matter? idk. i just give her whatever she wants 'cause it's like her entire sheet.

i think it's fine but if you don't i got no beef with you leaving for greener (more WUSHU?) pastures.

>>47617259

Ah, I learned it on 2e and 3e so idk what its like nowadays, but it was pretty bad back in the day.

>>47617222
This is my fetish

>>47617268

Nah, not Wushu. I just like setting ideas. Honestly to me Exalted never felt very 'wuxia' despite people calling it that. Awful lot of huge ass swords and brutes in cool armor for the flimsy wire-fu aesthetic.

ex3 is bad because, at least with my playtesting and experiences, has just been 2e with a longer delay until someone explodes into gore, even more bloated options which was already a huge issue in 2e (im) and a glacial release schedule reducing everyone to Just Fucking Solars. I've been around since 1e, lack of options just isn't an option for me anymore, yanno? Plus I don't wanna hear about how everyone is a cuck to Solar hegemony and thus needs to have shittier mechanical versions of their crap. It was getting pretty tiresome toward mid-late 2e, and very weird to me when I remember 1e Soalrs being kind of middle of the pack, and definitely overwhelmed by shit like Lunar/Abyssal Brawl, Sidereal MA, etc. and making up for it with versatility. Solar Circle Sorcery helped, too...

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>>47617315
That's creepy, can we have more, please?

>>47617276
Its still shit.

>throw Dragon Turtle with 6 Sorc levels at my Level 7 PC's - a UCRogue, 2 Alchemists, and a Totemic Skald
>they beat it in four rounds

>throw a Grimm at them the next day
>it actually fails its save against a stink bomb
>and then gets wrecked while its standard actions are disabled
>said stink bomb also hit it hard enough to make it blow a concentration check on its Call Lightning SLA

I am the worst GM.

>>47617401
Did you try throwing more than one critter at a time

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>>47617322
are they going to completely fuck dragonblooded up the ass so that even the usurpation would literally have been impossible and they would have been useless as soldiers against the shit the solars fought despite the fluff again?

>>47617401
Single big enemies get their shit pushed in. Give them minions or give them DR or Regen or work a gimmick.

>>47617454
>DR

Grimm have DR 15/Silver or Good.

So they just hit it with energy damage until it died.

>>47617434
I felt as if that would be too unfair.

Clearly I was wrong.

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>>47617330

>>47617482
No, when you throw more than one critter at your party you make them a bit less of a challenge.

>>47617442

Probably. That whole player base is a bunch of pseudo-libertarian sociopaths who came off D&D 3.5e, wanting to play out god-fantasies and love the reassurance that, 'even when you lose, you still win simply by having picked this one splat.'

>>47617322
i can see the roots of your frustration. it really is not wuxia but the thing it is is a thing i mostly like. they want to rebrand as sword-and-sandals but it's not that either, it's just...fucking Exalted. friendly chats with the merchant port succubus over herbal tea, and later you rip the heart-pearl out of a 50-foot crab god because he's been selling the destinies of local fishermen to insane dead things. i don't know if it helps any, probably not, but they do seem serious about flattening down tiers so solar hegemony ISN'T such a thing, (should i mention solar-tier exigents? maybe not lol) and the bloat is like anything, you stop noticing after a while. but your first point is where we're split, a longer delay before someone explodes into gore is basically all i ever wanted.

release schedule we are brothers. i'm an infernals diehard. 2019 is the...optimistic projection.

kill me

>>47617489
*sigh* GODDAMNIT CHARLIE

>>47617482
Sounds like you got outplayed super hard.

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Exalted has its own thread

>>47617507

Well, its just 2e combat with another resource to track and a forced delay before your not-alpha alpha strike makes them die, yeah.

Personally, I like fights that can have some back and forth when I desire it. Its why I like HP systems.

>>47617538
Yeah basically. Even after I homebrewed a spell on the spot to banish and push back everything surrounding the Dragon Turtle, the flying Bombchemist (who also has +30 to all Knowledges except Religion, to which he has a +33) still caught up with it and wrecked its face.

I literally cheated and it still died.

I am the worst GM.

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>>47617330

>>47617442
No, they're gonna rock. They'll be strong enough that you can't trivialize them ever, base system has seen to that already really, and while the quick NPCs we got in the corebook are basically unusable because they're so incomplete, it's worth noting that the Dragonblooded are close to the scariest things in there and the sketch versions of the Immaculate Dragon Styles they're using look pretty awesome. Controversial developer decision is that dragon styles will have neither Terrestrial keywords (nothing is watered down for Dragonblooded) or Mastery keywords (nothing is extra-good for Solars and Sidereals), so they actually get some proprietary stuff now.

If you like not-Solars, 3E is probably worth being excited about. It's Solars that are having most of the problems right now honestly.

There's a general for this, by the way.

>>47617482

Its okay, as a DM its your job to be a little unfair. Just know when to pull your punches if you have to. Unless your players ejaculate to the idea of TPKs, in which case indulge them!

>>47617507

I'm terrified to see how they fuck up Infernals. They were already kind of sketchy to begin with. And this is going to be AFTER they shit out two? new Exalted splats? and all the other originals minus Alchemicals?

>>47617540

desu this is the best discussion i've had about Exalted in months

>>47617594
That's because you're not seeking out the Exalted General, you colossal turbotard

>>47617585

Okay but only if I can ignore all of their lore changes and also the new splats. I hate that i'll have to vet past groups if its okay that I ignore Liminals or Exigents or whatever other thing they push out that doesn't jive with me.

I don't want to go to the official thread, its full of crazies and shitposters.

>>47617629
I'm actually looking forward to the exigents. Lets people make all sorts of crazy shit, one hopes.

I can still use SU and SLA while I am under the effect of Transformation spell right?

Do I still have spell slot (eventhough I can't cast them)? Can I use it to fuel other ability (like Arcane Blast for example).

>>47617629
>full of crazies and shitposters.
As if /pfg/ isn't?

>>47617551
now that i honestly don't get. the back and forth in 3E is really high, initiative is super-swingy. combat ends with a killshot but it's not like goremauls win in 2E, or perfect-or-die. you actually do have a fight before you climb ahead enough, and then you're gambling on them not having a response to snatch it out of your jaws. or if they do Dodge. you might as well leave and come back with friends.

if anything it's a little more nervewracking than i'd like. anything with access to Exalted-tier Charms might have access to Snake Strikes the Heel or Over-and-Under Method or what's the other fucking thing, Iron Kettle Body. in HP systems the guy who is doing more damage per round generally wins the fistfight, in Exalted you really need to know what they're both holding back.

if you only played vs quick npcs they're mostly shit, but an E1 circle against raksha cataphracts and little fey is legitimately not a foretold outcome.

>>47617723
Yes

And yes.

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>>47617734

>>47617708

I liked them better when they were called God-blooded.

No seriously I wish they were just not-shitty God-blooded.

>>47617747
Thanks. Time to be a spooky skeleton mage pretending to be a master swordman.

>>47617629
Lots of people are gonna ignore Liminals and Exigents (at least as lore, Exigents are pretty much the patch-it-in make-your-own Exalts so I figure there's gonna be a lot of "Sidereals" and "Infernals") so that's fine. But hey, maybe they'll turn out to be cool - I always hated the setting chains that came with Sidereals, I'm excited to see Getimians.

>>47617594
The preview wasn't promising, but since the universal reaction to the Infernal preview was "no" they in a rare moment of awareness said "okay, we'll try again" and scrapped their entire concept. What little has been said is thus malleable, but it seems like they plan to do Infernals with no Reclamation where the Yozis just want to live vicariously through you and maybe stick it to the gods some. Sounds a little light, but Solars are light and they work. I'm withholding judgment, but I'm not all that scared. It barely matters IMHO as long as they remember Mind-Hand Manipulation, Splintered Gale, and Viridian Legend Exoskeleton. Building your own shintais sounds cool. My dream is they'll hire Revlid and we'll get Metagaos and his version of She Who Lives In Her Name right in core.

But yeah this is /pfg/ and we should probably stop. Uh...I guess if you're waiting for Infernals, you can play a Hellknight like a shitty one of those. With the new Chimera Soul discipline from Lords of the Wild, actually, it might not be so bad...

>>47617757
they are! just skip the "and Exigence kills the god who bestows it" line. exactly the same!

Exaltedshits, fuck off

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>>47617980
Hey, it's more interesting then having to discuss paizo products for a bit. I say let them stay for the night.

>>47617980
>>47618002
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xl5GSvyVfU

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>>47617980
You first mate

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>>47618016
I just want everyone to get along and stop eating each other!

Have any of you ever played a Psychic?
Specifically the Psychic Duelist archetype. Flavor sounds rad but I don't want to bog down the table.

>>47618020
Don't call me mate, buddy

Newfag here, what actually in the new Hellknight book? My PCs ran afoul of some in our last session and they might become reoccurring antagonists...

>>47618058
Not yet, but I am building one for an upcoming campaign. The good thing about the archetype is that you don't lost much. You can just play as straight psychic until you get thought-made-real ability. Combat will probably be bogged down if you or your GM don't know the psychic duel system, but it doesn't matter much. Since it's better to use the spell as control spell ans stall for time until your buddy kill the body in the real world. Summon a tough thought-form creature and focus on defense.

>>47618058
So...I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's...well, in a way it's kind of good news! You won't bog down the table.

That's because entering a psychic duel is a nigh-unstoppable full body paralysis button that makes random enemies play a game with you that they can't win while holding still patiently as all your allies, who are not psychic dueled, beat them to fucking death on the spot.

and this has made me remember Armageddon Nightmare Duel from Exalted's Infernal Monster Style, and now I'm even sadder we'll be waiting so long for an official release. Pursuing and murdering your favorite enemies in the safe refuge of their dreams so when they wake up they're your little spiritually-ruined chewtoys was so. fucking. satisfying. Infernal Monster wasn't great, the entry Charms replicated stuff you probably had from your native Charms and it was too focused on grappling which everyone hated, but god how could you not love having stuff like Joyful Cessation of Restraint, Fist of the Old Ones, and Screaming Meat Shield written right on your character sheet?! Path of War needs to hire some fucking Exalted fans.

If anyone watches Facebook, Gareth is getting into it with Owen and Price on some shit Owen posted. It's kinda funny

>>47617894

Sidereals were cool but badly utilized, 2e was a lot of kneejerking and reactionary shit in response to them in 1e.

imo Hell should have a ton of adventures all on its own. Not every game needs to circle back to Creation. Its what plagued Alchemicals and Autocthon, despite being cool on their own.

hey guys any tips for making an eidolon for my summoner? i'm tossing up between a bruiser with multiple slam attacks or a flyer with flyby attack and reach and probably vital strike.

I've never played one so I'm not sure which way to go with it. Any tips from people who have?

>>47618173

I was curious, so...

Screaming Meat Shield

The best defense is to break an enemy’s will to fight. Gorol learned this the hardest possible way when he overheard the Neverborn whisper the Great Curse and sought to integrate the lesson into Infernal Monster Style. This Charm may defend against any perceived physical attack by changing the target from the martial artist to a victim she is holding with World-Breaker Grip. The attack is resolved as if the new target were its original target and cannot be aborted. If an attacker kills a held character toward whom she has a positive Intimacy as a result of this attack redirection, the attacker loses one Willpower from despair. A mortal who inadvertently kills a close loved one this way (such as a spouse or child) loses all remaining Willpower points as his will breaks along with his heart (see Exalted, p. 174).

...how hard would it be to convert these things into Disciplines. Because holy shit.

>>47618239

Fiendbound Marauder has that exact thing.

Go go Path of War!

>>47618189
please link. now. please. please please

>>47618201
Bruiser is stronger, flyer will be probably more fun, difference isn't huge, do the flyer.

>>47618201

I prefer flyers for obvious reasons but also because it looks cool with the different ways you can fluff that.

>>47618189
No one fucking cares

>>47618262
Can't link to Facebook here, but Owen KC Stevens has an open wall. Look for what he posted yesterday at 4:48 PM

>>47618173

Jesus, are psychic duels really that ridiculous? What were they thinking?

>>47618348
PSYCHIC WIZURDS

That's what they were thinking.

>>47618358

They make a game for a demographic that is worried about a monk dip letting you block a single melee attack per turn if you fight defensively all the time. How does that demographic not shit its pants at a nigh-infallible "I'll hold their bruiser while you guys beat the shit out of him" move?

>>47618394
Because MAAAAGIIIIC.

>>47618173
>>47618058
That sounds excellent, cheers.
I'm actually swapping characters from a Psychic Detective skill-monkey to a Psychic Duelist because the party is complaining that I am "not useful enough" in combat.
I think I am going to have the last laugh because the GM is also letting me take Sacred Geometry.
The setting is a premade for inexperienced players so I am just worried that I am somehow an asshole here.

>>47618323
I see the status, but all that's visible of note is a long wall of text by Jade Ripley (is that Real Gareth? I can't keep their real names apart) with no response to it.

He's totally right, but he's being pretty respectful. I don't see Price at all.

>select all images with popcorn

Oh, Captcha.

>>47618509
Do a screen dump

>>47615273
how is the power level in pathfinder?

>>47618603
Depends on the class.

>>47618509
Huh, I saw others up. Comment was possibly deleted, I didn't get a cap

>>47618603
lets say, a lvl 5 wizard is threatened by a guy with a knife?

>>47618697
Unless that guy with a knife was already swinging, he has a bit of a time before him.

>>47618697

What is the guy's build, his level, etc? because if he takes initiative and/or comes from a surprise round then Wizard is probably dead.

>>47618348
>>47618358
Yugioh!
Dark Dimension!
Mind Crush!

Also Psychic Duelist is immune to all AC attack after level 9.

>>47618751
lets say the guy with a knife is a simple commoner lvl 1 with a knife iirc knife do 1d4 damage

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>>47618531
Here you are. There's a lot more but it looks like all the good stuff was deleted days ago, and most of the rest are sycophants. Sam Hing continues to be wrong at Jade Ripley, but it's too late, the uncomfortable truth can't be ignored, Paizo is just as degenerate as its players. Their game is full of rape and body violation and they love it, Crystal loves it, Jessica loves it, Owen loves it, they all fantasize and masturbate to it, they just want to shame other people for also being fucked in the head.

>>47618791
Why would that even threaten a level 5 Wizard? Wizard would has more BAB and HP then him.

>>47618791
No. He could literally beat that guy to death with his bare hands.

>>47618791

he's fucked because on average the wizard will have more hp than he can do damage. Wizard's turn, he takes a 5-foot step back and casts (killsuded)

>>47618798
This is all fucking retarded
Also, concepts wherein the sick and twisted are given descriptors are probably to highlight further the heroism of the players

I would gladly play a campaign with "adult, serious" themes then one without but brevity should also be included

Fuck all those autists and fuck you

>>47618879
than*

Fuck

>>47618879
>>47618924
That moment when you realize you're the real autist.

>>47618962
Yeah I know right, fml

Cool story bro

>>47618962
You shouldn't be referring to yourself then

anyone have Mays releases?

>>47618798
>>47618879
>>47618924
>>47618962
>>47618997
>>47619033
Stop posting from your mom's basement

>>47618805
>>47618808
>>47618812
Would it be logical if the wizard still got mortally damaged by an attack like that?

> Get told /pfg/ found the FB thread
> Feel the cold grip of fear in my soul
> Actually read the thread

Never change, anons. Never change.

>>47619158

Logic goes out the window when hit dice get high enough, anon. I've seen a wizard get bitten by a T-Rex and be OK afterwards.

>>47619158

Lets see.. average Con is probably around 12 on an NPC Wizard, HD is d6, so.... that's about 20 hp bare minimum.

On a critical hit the knife wielding commoner might do 4-6 damage.

So no, not really.

>>47619173
Yeah but it looks like we missed the good stuff, all I see is you being reasonable.

>>47619173
>get told
Uh huh, you were monitoring this thread all along

>>47619214
I really haven't been. I spent today with my son and at work. Tomorrow will be similar. My team, on the other hand, keeps an eye in case we're wanted or needed.

>>47619173
It's okay, Gareth. I know about the other ones, but I'll never tell. You just keep writing fun material and stories about cute lesbians out to save the viking gods and everything is gonna be juuust fine.

>>47619158
No. If you're high enough level you can spread a bucket of fucking molten lava over your head in the shower every morning and it won't even really fuck with your day.

Pathfinder doesn't have physics. Just mechanics.

This thread went to shit a long time ago

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>>47619272
This happens alot..

>>47619248
>I spent today with my son
>:3

>>47619272
I mean, it's about Pathfinder. What did you think was going to happen, the 5E General?

>>47619175
>>47619249
>>47619209
I saw in the rules some stuff about hit locations but i didn't understand them quite well

I'm playing a Lords of the Night Vampire with Steelfist Commando, using Mithral Current, Broken Blade, Riven Hourglass and Veiled Moon for a Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign.

Its been pretty fun so far.

How are you guy's PoW games going?

>>47617110
The Tower of Hell? Hellspire?

>>47616513
FUCKING WINDOW CLOSED TWICE.

Paladin for Spirited Charge+Smite and supporty stuff.

Bloodrager for Loose Cannon Knight with a temper.

Rogue (Scout archetype) deals sneak attack on a Charge.

>>47619397
Define "PoW game"

Game in which PoW is being used at all? Or one of those madhouses where everyone is using initiating all the time forever?

As an open question to other people, how are your ANYthing games going?

>>47619474

Either or. Mine is a mixed game of casters and initiators, with enemies who have been casters or initiators.

>>47619474

I keep wanting to try an orc/dragon cross-bloodline half-orc or a halfling sorcerer with the dragon bloodline and an emphasis on rays.

>>47619397
> I'm playing a Lords of the Night Vampire

TELL ME MORE ANON

>>47619515

Its pretty cool, it would be more powerful if the DM was throwing out shit that requires Con, but so far he's just thrown big damage at me and status effects at the other party members.

I feel like its 'balanced' without any LA adjustment because he's smart and my Hp feels woefully inadequate sometimes compared to the Warder.

>>47619474

Working on an archer Paladin Sacred Servant. I wanted to do a 'totally not a magic girl battle princess' who summons holy servants and smites evil in the name of Love.

>>47619272
>>47619291
Post titties.
>>47619490
>enemies are initiators
Y'know, this can be a new kind of fear. I once faced off against several ZH Warders and 2 Steelfist Commandoes, and that shit go so CUHRAAZEY so fast. People constantly repositioning, we'd push and the warders would cockblock, our wizard would make walls that would get punched down, the ranger was literally blinded by CHO ANIKI MUSCLE FURASH!, one of them yelled RIDE IT OUT and literally went super saiyan on us.
>then we stopped fighting when we figured out we were both on the same side, getting played by the BBEG
>we then joined forces and at the end, stormed the BBEGs fortress, taking on hundreds of mooks musou style
Greg, you were an awesome bastard. I'll join your game table in hell.

>>47619395
Good, ignore them completely. No matter what happens, a level 5 wizard can beat a level 1 commoner into the fucking grave with his bare hands. That is the core of the game. If you ever change it, you have Broken the Game and soon your PCs will figure out how to do what you did, ascend the very stairs of heaven, and rape and murder your gods. You'll be forced to roleplay their animal squealing, and then you will be cast to the outer darkness as your players enter a battle royale amongst themselves. The winner - the survivor - is entitled to your girlfriend, your car keys, and one-half of your yearly incomes from that day hence.

>>47617110
The House of Strife
The Proving Spire
Eregash's Defeat
Mirregazar's Rule
Measure
Blackreach
Ambition's End
Breakfaith Cathedral
The Serpent's Ladder
The Eldstair

>>47619515
Not that anon, but I use Veiled Moon to "turn into bats" and sometimes to do a Dracula-esque moonbeam/Lestat-esque "trick of perspective" maneuver. Also I convinced my DM that it is within the bounds of Charm Person's friendship to let me bite people just a little. It's fun!

>>47619624

Damn, those are good. I might use The House of Strife or The Serpent's Ladder.

>>47619736
Please include some Snakes & Ladder's jokes if you do, for me, anon.

Is there any spell in Pathfinder that lets me make a duplicate of myself? Kinda like a clone or something?

>>47619957
Simulacrum?

>>47619961
Sorta, I was wondering if there was a spell that could let me summon in a clone army
And thus be a literal one-man army

>>47620055
I'd rather be a thrallherd
so I have a seven-nation army

It is my impression or there is indeed no improved or greater and so and so multiweapon feats ?

>>47620517
Pretty sure that's intentional.

>>47620517
I'm fairly certain it noting that it replaces two-weapon fighting means that it also qualifies them for improved and greater twf

>>47620517
Why would there be? Assuming you have four arms, you're already getting as many attacks as you normally would with improved and greater TWF, but without the extra penalties from those feats.

>>47615273
Hey /pfg/ I think I found something interesting. So if you get a familiar, you can archetype it to gain a cleric domain, and there is a cleric domain that gives you a familiar now. So you can potentially get an infinite number of familiars, as long as you're okay with them all being greensting scorpions.

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>>47620751
>Scorpion Army

>>47620751
Infinite scorpions with tiny scorpions on their shoulders.

>>47620751
Servants of Besmara have always been able to trade in a domain (from any source) for a familiar. Doesn't even have to be a scorpion. Just have your familiar worship her.

>>47620953
My birds shall blot out the sun.

>>47620751
Show your work
This sounds awesome

>>47620751
Well the problem is if one member of the chain dies it will fuck them over. But for just one domain that sounds worth it.

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>>47621092
Kay.

So you get a familiar (VMC wizard, wizard, feats, cleric, ETC) and then using these rules
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes
You take this
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-archetypes/emissary-familiar-archetype
Granting you a familiar with the vermin domain as of level 3
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo---domains/vermin-domain


>>47621118
See if that happens you find where the chain breaks and then the foe still has to deal with the thousands of other angry displaced scorpions.

Other noob question, how deadly is PF?

>>47621138
Doesn't work. The emissary familiar ability mentions specifically:
>Choose one appropriate domain that grants a 1st-level domain power usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the user's Wisdom modifier.
>The emissary can use that power once per day.
You need to chose a domain power that has the 3+Wis uses per day limit.

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>>47621162
Fuk. I was so close.

Tell me, /pfg/, if I am for some bizarre reason playing an Ambush Hunter Ranger and I take a constrictor snake, once it upgrades to Large, is there A) anything that stops me riding on it because it's not a horse or some bullshit and B) if I am riding on it and it's grappling something can I stab that thing or do I have to dismount? I really want this. I want to coil an anaconda around my enemies while jabbing them and laughing madly from atop its majestic spine.

>>47621138
This is perfect.

>>47621159
Extremely at low level. Less so as you go up levels but you have to watch out for stupid bullshit that you can't deal with effectively, like how shadows can just murder a party that isn't specifically prepared for them, or if you run into enemy spellcasters who cast sleep or something.

>>47621179
I can't see anything wrong with this. I also remember something along the lines of grappling extra creatures due to your size but I could be wrong.

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>>47621138
Bueno.
Thanks mate.

>>47621179
You can ride it while it's medium if you feel like it. The only things stopping you from using anything as a mount are a Ride skill penalty (If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks.), and the creature's carrying capacity. There are no actual rules that limit mounts by size category.

>>47621162
Choose that domain. And then, as a servant of Besmara, trade it in for a familiar. :D

>>47621319
Familar doesn't get the domain, it gets the domain power. It's not the same thing.

>>47621242
Constrictor animal companions hit Strength 26 (including the animal companion Str/Dex bonus and their ability score increase) by level 6, so I think it'll hold me juuust fine. This is exciting.

>>47621391
Other fun things you can do with an Ambush Hunter: it has an initiator level equal to your own. By default it only learns half your maneuvers/stances rounded down, and only from Primal Fury, and it uses your pool of readied maneuvers to initiate from, but nothing stops it from, say, picking up a stance with Advanced Study. Like that Steel Serpent stance that gives +4d6 constrict and +4 natural armor.

Unfortunately you'll have to wait quite a while, because snakes have Int 1, and you need to get it up to 8 HD to correct that AFAIK.

So, er, one of my players decided to quit suddenly, and the game's in about 3-4 hours at 8pm GMT+8. It's a weekly game, too.

So I'm looking for one player. The setting is as such:
In a world situated between the eternal warring planes of Order and Chaos, where individuals gifted with great power from birth are the norm, a goddess seeks to establish balance and protect her mortal subjects.

Long millennia she has fought for her children, but with naught an end in sight. Yearning for a rest, the goddess named her strongest and most loyal followers her Fury, and laid to rest.

A few hundred years have past and the original Furies have long since gone, but they left behind something: their legacy. With the resurrection of the goddess still not in sight, the ten original Furies chose to maintain this world she held so dear by opening Academias- facilities where a new generation of Furies may be nurtured and sent out to protect the world.

Year 482 of the Twilight Era, a new batch of prospects, some volunteered, some scouted, some wishing to be heroes, some merely seeking power, have come to the Vexinian Academia, hoping to pass the entrance test.

Starting rules: Level 3, 25 pt buy
Class restrictions: PoW and SoP highly recommended.
Setting: High fantasy, with magic tech being highly consumer based
House rules: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qVhWcABvr5uCXgaXzPj0V3cpClkpqQoOyarnZa4D-2g/edit , leveling when DM says so, hub based

So yeah, anyone interested? We play through skype voice chat and roll20. If you are leave your skype name here.

It's technically session 0.5, where you characters will undergo an entrance exam.

Man, what was the actual point of turning most of the combat-related uses of strength checks into TWO new stats? Strength checks still exist, and now there are just two more calculated stats for the dumbest people at the table to consistently fuck up, and you still have to track all the plusses and minuses to each specific type of maneuver as you accrue racial/class features. Wasn't this for simplification? What did it simplify?

I've never messed around with third-party materials, but a lot of Dreamscarred Press stuff looks interesting. Is it generally balanced? Is there anything that I should probably ban as a DM?

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I made the decission to GM a mini-campaign this summer which is basically a merging of these three modules: Haunting of Harrowstone, The Skinsaw Murders and The House on Hook Street.
I made some changes for introduce in it a good deal of lovecrafnian monsters but the main BBEG is going to be Nightripper because I want it to be an homage/tribute to Wes Craven and the horror movies of the 80s.
My question though is which creepy "from beyond" non-lovecrafnian monsters, haunts or horrific scenes I could add as a reference to this or that movie from the 80s.

>>47621514
As a DM, it's actually more manageable at higher levels as everyone is doing consistent damage, while being able to add twists to their attacks. I'm not sure about you, but I prefer it being like that. Kinda tired of everyone trying to outdamage each other while the wizard literally deletes stuff from my campaign.

And yes they will seem very powerful in levels 1-3 maybe up until level 5, if every other player is used to CRB.

>>47621514
Requires an encounter shift to quantity over quality. Martials do get stronger, but they still can't compete with sorcerers/wizards

>>47621514
It's balanced with near everyone who has spells, but not with fighters, barbarians, rogues, monks, gunslingers, cavaliers, slayers, brawlers, swashbucklers, ninja, samurai, spell-less vigilantes and rangers.

Is it possible to somehow use animus augmentations if you picked up EFlux through Martial Training?

>>47621576
You need the Tap Animus feat.

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>>47621533
>Freddy Krueger as BBEG

I see what you did there.

>>47621602
Thanks!

>>47621604
"Sorry kid, I don't believe in fairy tales"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGQQfE9NI-A

>>47621514
Sorta. It needs encounter redesign, because the damage initiators deal is very, very high. It also gives martial characters lots of fun things to do, but you need to be aware most of them will one-round CR-appropriate enemies if they're trying, and there's little reason not to try.

Smarter encounters, more numerous encounters, or encounters padded with "mooks" should keep you afloat just fine, and the payoff is worth the adjustment.

They work fine beside things at Tier 3 and up, but lower-level classes will feel bad, which is why the assorted initiator classes are aimed a little deliberately at covering all of those roles.

If you have players who really want some particular class feature (animal companions etc) Path of War: Expanded includes archetypes for most of the not-full-casters (even alchemists and warpriests get love).

>>47616335
The aforementioned bloat is pretty much the only reason to so much as touch Pathfinder. If you're not a fan of bloat, there are much better options out there, like FantasyCraft, 5e, or 3.5 with carefully picked booklist.

called shot rules that are not shit?

>>47615992
I like the lore Shaman...though it does require pretty much every stat.

>>47616393
Wizards have all their toys and rogues and monks are unplayable. Ultimate Combat/Magic was basically "I'm sorry" to monks.

>>47615992
Quick word on the Hunter - it's balanced around as well as the Alchemist, meaning it's one of the best balanced classes in the game. the only reason most people haven't played around with it is it's very much a petmaster class, which isn't something that appeals to a ton of people. Still, it's well made and fun to play for me - it's probably also the best entry class to Mammoth Rider, which is a thoroughly underused prestige class.

Alright, /pfg/, looking to shove enemies into oubliettes of hungry darkness for embarrassingly long lengths of time with El's Utterdark Shield.

Keeping in mind that once they're in the oubliette any auras or presence-based effects won't be able to touch them, and that they get a save each round so duration > intensity, how low can you tank someone's Will saving throw before level 7?

>>47621813
but if you like pets, it is by FAR the best petmaster. summoners can shove the fuck over. IDK why no one plays hunters I fucking love my dire-tiger-riding Rule 63'd Jasmine dude

>>47621159
Depends entirely on what the GM throws at the party and how optimized the party is. Generally, though, once you get past the first few levels, PCs aren't going to accidentally die unless the GM throws tough encounters at them(whether by accident or design - CR gives you a general idea how tough a critter is meant to be, but that's not necessarily very accurate, and that's before you even factor in the fact that different parties are best suited fighting against different kinds of enemies).

I've been Okay'd to play a cleric of Asmodeus with that trait that lets you treat him as a LN god, so that I could channel positive or negative energy(or both with that feat).

Definitely using the Asmodean Advocate archetype with the Deception Domain. Getting 1/2 level to Profession:Asshole Lawyer which counts as a wisdom based Diplomacy/Bluff is pretty neat.

How best to RP an asshole lawyer cleric? Contracts before he heals you?

>>47621813
Mammoths have a really hard time fitting into dungeons.

>>47621866
Solution:Get a siege wizard and mount a hellmouth cannon onto the top of the mammoth to blow up the dungeon instead.

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>>47621842
Seriously, hunter is the best if you want a pet, bar fucking none. during the Iron gods campaign I took part in my character was huntress from the realm of the mammoth lords, and the teamwork bullshit you can get up to with a smilodon is incredible.

Get enough melee combat teamwork feats and you can slaughter everything, robots included. It worked even better in the game I was in since we had a Spell Warrior Skald backing up my hunter and her pet. Nothing says "fuck you" like a giant cat having a keen flaming pounce attack because some dude is yodeling in the background.

>tfw hate players almost as much as I hate myself
Really this is what make PF a good system in my eyes. It allows me to indulge in both of these.

>>47621859
Your character's last name is "Goodman". I'll leave the rest up to you.

Also if you're worried about being stabbed because you worship an evil god, the Hidden Priest archetype should stack, but it'll remove your domain abilities. Not sure if it's needed since you're a lawyer and you'll get stabbed anyway, and Asmodeus is the god of pride anyway.

>>47621859
There is a trait to treat Asmodeus as LN?

I'm gonna be playing a rage prophet in a game I'm in, and I was wondering if any of the barb archetypes are worth taking, or what rage powers I should focus on. Can anyone help out with that?

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>>47621859
Contract prior to any endeavor, with healing or services in any interim period being factored into future contracts.

Contracts generally serving to note the services provided by the other party if they wish to retain your spellcasting abilities. Increased percentages out of excess loot shares for each time they breach the contract, essentially a series of demerits.

Be meticulous with your paperwork, get everything in writing, or get anything verbal witnessed and have that witness sign a written statement.

Always be closing.

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>>47621922
>Even robots.
Bullshitron

>>47621957
True Primitive is always fun.

>>47621957
Invulnerable Rager and Urban Barbarian are the two best archetypes.
Moreover, you can combine them.

>>47621970
I played that. For as long as it lasted, it was nice.

>>47621951
http://archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Pact%20Servant

RAW I don't think it allows you to pick positive, but I am being allowed by my DM to pick negative and then getting versatile channel for positive.

>>47621951
Yes, and the controversy is fucking delicious. It's in Distant Shores, exclusive to the region of Holomog/city of Anuli.

Crystal Frasier and some other guy who I think edited the book about shat their own faces off trying to explain that while it's NOT TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE to read the trait as potentially WITH FULL GM ACCEPTANCE allowing for Asmodean paladins, it is 10000% not the intent of anything or anyone and there will never be any form of official support, acceptance, or recognition of any paladin of Asmodeus in any official Paizo product ever period the end.

TL;DR Asmodean Paladins are GREEN LIGHT GOOOO

>>47621968
>>47621970
Thanks for the suggestions. Any advice on rage powers? I think I'm only going to be able to get a few since I'm gonna not gonna be taking barbarian very high in levels.

>>47621958
I'm tempted to actually draft fake contracts and print them out to bring to the game now.

>>47622019
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/conditional-favor
You'll love this.

>>47621960
One level in Mammoth rider for huge size and a really nice strength boost, strong jaw, animal growth, and a charge with pounce and grab. Generally enough to lay the hurt on anything short of a massively defensive creature. Takes up a considerable amount of space to include animal growth, though, so it's often best to avoid that one.

Still, when your cat is trucking around with claws that deal 6d6 damage base, a bite attack that does 8d6, and 46 strength, it can cause some ruckus. Then the skald applies keen and all the attacks have a good chance to get doubled.

>>47622019
>>47622037
Don't forget Spellcasting Contract.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spellcasting-contract

>>47621999
Also worth note is that the people of whereverthefuck worship Asmodeus in the aspect of the Wily Linguist, which is of course a play on Cunning Linguist, a patriarchal oppressive demon lord literally worshipped for his skill at giving head, which is of course a reminder that whether or not the interns know and understand it Golarion is in fact being written by SOMEONE around all kinds of weird shit, from the endless rape and impregnation monsters to the bevy of sex goddesses and demon lord to Asmodeus' and Cheliax's expose of the dark truth of the modern liberated woman: the most pleasurable use of freedom is voluntarily surrendering all of it..

I honestly can't tell who's getting trolled anymore. I guess everybody. You ever read Asmodeus' backstory? He betrays his brother, murders him, over the issue of mortal free will - and then abandons the fight as soon as he's won, leaves free will alone? He hates the idea of mortals as more than tools, but the nation he's backing is the one that promotes mortal supremacy harder than anyone else? It's all so fucked.

>>47622038
You have to reach a robot in melee for be able to deliver all that wrath.
A gearsman usually is equipped by default with a laser gun and before you can charge them they are also armed with polearms, which allow them certain combat control in dungeons.
Then there is torturer robots (murderballs) which perfectly can wreck your shit with their surgical lasers and deliver a terrible amount of blows in melee with their razors.
And lets not get started with annihilators and their suppressive fire ability.

>>47622098
Ah, you're going with the "Wizard prepared everything" argument. In that case, I'm not going to bother with continuing this.

What are some fun (Paizo only) traits? It doesn't even has to be useful, just fun or interesting.

I'm tired of Reactionary and Magical Lineage.

>>47622158
Extremely Fashionable is always fun

>>47622158
Can't remember the name, but there's a trait that let's you use bluff to convince someone that one object is any other object of roughly the same size.

>>47622122
No, I am not going that line.
I had played Iron Gods and when you have the encounter with the gearsmen in the Aurora wreck, the damn things almost wrecked our party because:
1-They took a defensive stance in a narrow alley.
2-They had their sarisas ready for any eventual charge.
3-The advanced gearman was behind ready with his laser rifle.
When our bloodrager tried to charge his long arms effect didn't do shit. We also found ourselves exhausted after the fight with the deformed androids and the Blob.

>>47622236
Oh, that fight? I wasn't actually the one that handled that.

As it turns out, robots have horrifically bad saving throws. The sorc used glitterdust a couple times and it made that whole 'fight' a mopup

>>47622236
I'm kinda surprised you had trouble with those encounters. For us they were all completely trivial, mostly because all of the enemies were groups of really low level foes relying on basic attacks, so they all needed 20s to hit our front line.

>>47622236
Laser rifles deal jack shit for damage, and if the rest of the robots are just standing around defending against charges that will never come, it's pretty trivial to just get ranged weapons out and waste them. Or just... not engage by charging.

>>47622315
>Construct traits
>Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
>Patterns and phantasms
>GLITTERDUST BEING EFFECTIVE

I didn't read such bullshit since that time someone posted his/her PC soloed a Worm that Walks with a flesh to stone.

>>47622362
Glitterdust is conjuration(creation). It's none of those things.

>>47622362
>Glitterdust
School conjuration (creation); Level bard 2, bloodrager 2, magus 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, summoner/unchained summoner 2, witch 2; Elemental School earth 2, metal 2

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (ground mica)
EFFECT

Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area creatures and objects within 10-ft.-radius spread
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Will negates (blinding only); Spell Resistance no


It isn't anything you mentioned, dumbass. glitterdust even shuts down golems.

>>47622350
>Jack shit for damage
An automatic weapon that does 1d10 of fire damage. Yeah, sure.

http://archivesofnethys.com/EquipmentTechWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Laser%20rifle

>>47622371
Is still a pattern. The gold particles blind someone because they do a pattern not because is a phantasm.

>>47622362
Glitterdust physically throws magical blinding glitter on people.

>>47622381
If it can be blinded, it's affected by Glitterdust. Maybe there's a pattern but it's not an illusion[pattern] spell. It's physically flying in the face of the robot.

>>47622381
No you moron, glitterdust is blinding for the same reason shining a flashlight in someone's face or throwing a bunch of glitter in their eyes is blinding - you literally can't see shit through the glare and physical glitter. It's not a pattern, it's a physical fucking thing in your face.

>>47622381
>Is still a pattern. The gold particles blind someone because they do a pattern not because is a phantasm.
"Pattern" is a specific kind of illusion spell.

>>47622406
The saving is Will not Fort.
Which implies is a patter or a compulsion effect as if it was an illusion school phantasm.

>>47622381
> conjuration (creation);
It's not.

>>47622417
It may imply that, but it's a conjuration(creation) spell and there's literally nothing in the spell description saying that it's mind effecting, therefore it isn't.

>>47622381
Yeah. At 7th level (when the encounter we're talking about happens, and still before you'd reasonably expect to be able to afford one), 1d10 a shot is pathetic. It's less dangerous than if the robot just had a composite bow. Hell, resist energy, which is a 1st level spell for rangers and a 2nd level spell for lots of other people makes you completely immune to someone trying to shoot you with one.

>>47622431
Okay, so here we have a proof that Paizo are a bunch of spellcaster fanboys.
If its a conjuration effect, therefore it creates an element which really interacts with the physical world and doesn't mess with the mind...why the fuck it haves a Will save and not a Fort save?

>>47622381
This is seriously the level where the PCs are expected to be able to get Resist 20 to Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire on the whole party in a round tops if it comes up. Laser rifles, especially a SINGLE laser rifle, are nothing.

>>47622442
You'd have to ask WotC devs. The wording is exact same as it was in 3.5.

>>47622442
It's the same spell as it was in 3e, it just gives you a save every round instead of blinding you for the full duration. Not exactly Paizo being spellcaster fanboys this time.

Ostensibly it's because you're using willpower to fight through sparklies in your eyes. Fort, Reflex, or Will all make sense, it's an arbitrary call by the spell designer that doesn't really matter. There's a spell at the same level that has the same blinding effect (except marginally more likely to last longer), but it targets Reflex instead.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/burst-of-radiance

>>47622442
Willpower to try to keep your eyes open when shiny shit is being tossed in your face maybe?

>>47622435
We are talking a weapon that doesn't fires like a bow, it haves automatic rules!

>Automatic: This weapon can act as a semi-automatic weapon (see below), or it can fire a burst of shots with a single pull of the trigger to attack all creatures in a line. This line starts from any corner of the wielder's space and extends to the limit of the weapon's range or until it strikes a barrier it cannot penetrate. When using an automatic weapon to attack all creatures in a line, the wielder makes a separate attack roll against each creature in the line. Each creature in the line can be attacked with only one shot from each burst. Each attack roll takes a -2 penalty, and its damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike. Effects that grant concealment, such as fog or smoke, or the blur, invisibility, or mirror image spells, do not affect an automatic weapon's line attack. Roll to confirm each attack roll that threatens a critical hit separately. A single burst with an automatic weapon consumes 10 charges. When taking a full-attack action with an automatic weapon, the wielder can fire as many bursts in a round as he has attacks, provided he has enough charges to make all of the attacks.

If we have present the Advanced Gearsman does have these stats (below )and the weapon fires at TOUCH not against standard AC even if you have a energy resistance above ten you are going to have high chances of deal serious damage during its turn:
>Ranged timeworn laser rifle +1 3/+8 touch (2d6+2) or
timeworn laser rifle +1 1/+11/+6 touch (2d6+2)
>Feats Deadly Aim, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms), PointBlank Shot, Precise Shot, Toughness, Weapon Focus (laser
rifle), Weapon Specialization (laser rifle)

>>47622471
>and its damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike.
Technically, I know this is supposed to be for particular effects like Vital Strike, but this also makes it so point blank shot, precise shot, weapon specialization, and Deadly Aim don't work with it either. Automatic fire uses the base damage, rather than the actual damage you can put out with it.

>>47622486
If the party was fresh perhaps the encounter could had been less lethal but before that our PCs just had a fight with a magus and before that a fight against an assassin android, a bunch of malformed androids and a pair of flesh blobs.
The oozes and the magus did hurt us badly and we depleted some spells that could had been handy during the gearsmen encounter.

>>47622471
>You have high chances of deal serious damage during its turn
>Literally deals 3 points of damage on the average full attack if it lands all shots on a target with Resist 10

Goddamn, dude. Anyway yeah, it basically shoots like a bow with Rapid Shot. It's probably not gonna fire a burst, especially since firing two of those burns out its gun (which is timeworn) forever, assuming it doesn't do any other attacking with it at all.

Against average Bestiary touch AC its attack routine does 24.9 damage, assuming no energy resistance. If you just dropped its firearm proficiency for Manyshot and handed it a bow, its damage output would increase by a point. And it wouldn't need a 10,000 gp piece of junk that fires 20 times before it becomes useless instead of real equipment. It could say, I dunno, have a magic bow to make it more deadly.

Basically what I'm getting at is that the tech weapons are kinda shit, especially for how fantastically expensive they are.

>>47622574
Interestingly, much like the "Guns Everywhere" discussion /pfg/ had a few days ago, Tech Weapons become hugely more useful and viable if you are buying them for 10% of the standard cost and they're simple weapons (with the exception of heavy weapons, of course)

I'd totally pay 2000 gold for a laser rifle. That's a good deal for an energy based touch weapon that's nonmagical. that also, however, assumes a really high tech level for the world you're in, since it'd be past "guns everywhere" and into "tech everywhere"

>>47622574
Crits happen and not all the characters in the party had a high resistance against elements.
We are talking here a human centric party composed by an investigator, a sorcerer, a bloodrager and a slayer.
A party, again,that wasn't fresh and had a encounter which was taxing.
The damn gearsmen were equipped with sarisas, which have a reach of 15ft. and not 10ft. as longspears do. The Augmented Gearsman focused the fire on the sorcerer, rolled two consecutive crits and since he was half his hit points he was KOed in the first round. After that opening automatic attack he when for conventional ones.

>>47621483
I really want to join but I won't be able to play consistently over the next month, so just, good luck.

Is DSP going to ever release archetypes for the Vigilante class?

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>>47621514
Well, it depends which material in regards to things you need to know, but the ban list is short if even present at all.

>>47621670 gives a good piece of advice
The damage is high at low levels and again at extremely high levels, though the latter is mostly overkill like those 3 extra attacks the raging barbarian axed into the already dead dragon.

However, the primary appeal of this, in terms of encounter design, is that it rather equalizes things well: The initiator can down a guy in one round, and the caster can down a guy in one round. One can only kill, the other has daily limits but can leave them alive or mindfuck them instead, but EITHER WAY they both have roughly the same encounter-KO speed.

You don't need to worry about "what if the wizard DOESN'T dominate half the enemies" causing a TPK, just like you don't need to worry that the party's warriors won't be able to take the boss down at a decent clip (actually most initiators are vicious boss killers since they're so solid one-on-one, so 5 guys dragons and fries is a quick way to have them ask "what's next")


The Psionic classes run between Tiers 2 and 4 (used to be 5, sorry soulknife) with a very strong presence in 3. The most powerful 3 in fact is the Aegis, *but* most people that use it just dip it for a bit - which is both the best AND least troubling (they can get access to ALL the non-vancian subsystems if you give them enough levels to grab them all) use of them.

Overall, much of the DSP stuff allows us to turn the old "damage is fucking worthless" back around, especially in the wake of high level immunities,etc; those things that get in the way of your sorcerer's spells known, but not the wizard or cleric. When all else fails, eventually, damage, good'ol damage, becomes a pretty good option again, because it never stopped working.

>>47622486
This is true; all automatic-fire requires very different building than regular ranged fire. It can be done, and it can be done viciously (my PF group can tell you what I've done with my "lines") but it's a radically different way of attacking you really need to understand.

For example, it frees up a fuckton of feats, BUT you want to get power back into it through class abilities. It's highly compatible thus with things like the Aegis, Warsoulbolts(infinite ammo + multibolt), focus on more attacks and bigger guns, using the feats - rather than secondary class abilities - as your source of utilities and other noncombat shit most of the time.

Get used to tracing lines out on a map and you'll get VERY GOOD at hitting multiple enemies without ever harming friends, so who the fuck needs precise shot?

>>47622600
Does guns everywhere apply to tech weapons? I thought it only applied at most to modern firearms?

What about heavy weapons, too?

>>47623191
Technically speaking, Guns Everywhere applies only to the weapons listed as early and advanced on the firearms page. However, them also applying to modern firearms suggests that "Advanced" is a broad category that applies to all non-early firearms.

So, uh, the legalese says yes, but the GM is liable to disagree.

So I just realized that the npc sort of implied my PC was gay probably for not flirting with her.

I'm going to need to ravish the shit out of her on the next session arent I?

>>47623114
>The damage is high at low levels and again at extremely high levels, though the latter is mostly overkill like those 3 extra attacks the raging barbarian axed into the already dead dragon.
My problem with that has always been that, unlike the Barbarian who has devoted literally his entire being, every feat, rage power, and item to being able to chargelancepounce or whatever, an Initiator can do comparable damage as part of a maneuver and spend the rest of his feats optimizing Craft (Underwater Basketweaving) because he doesn't need any help boosting his combat power. And then if he does decide to optimize for combat he easily beats the Barbarian in terms of damage in addition to doing it as an AoE, or doing it from range, or just doing way more.

I just would have preferred if DSP went for a lower optimization ceiling and gave interesting riders instead of damage, as opposed to big damage plus riders.

>>47623242
Only if you're playing in an ERP game.

>>47623242
Fucking goddamn wat

>>47623246
No, martials deserve nice things

>>47623246
Actually, that the barbarian had to do that was the problem.

If he didn't, he wasn't fucking useful to the party: Whether you one or ten round things doesn't matter once they're all paralyzed and mindraped to obedience. It only matters for those bursts of time where you are trying to negate incoming attacks by taking down what causes them.

By allowing this level of optimization, while YES you can go be the barbarian but more versatile, that's a problem with the barbarian, and you GET to also choose to only be regularly viable while still having a fuckton of shit you can do, while the "slightly less focused" barbarian that doesn't deal the full damage he needs to doesn't HAVE anything else, he's just literally "less good at what he does".

>>47623260
Not that anon but...

Martials totally deserve nice things. Which makes it too bad that PoW is all about muscle wizards who still shit all over the martials.

>>47623301

How are they wizards?

>>47623246
>>47623260
>>47623290
>>47623301
Give non-initiator martials access to initiating

>>47623242
Your PC has 3 options.
1) She is literally not his type, but another girl IS. Maybe he likes'em young. Maybe he likes'em with bigger or smaller tits. Maybe he's just not into 'ebony' Maybe he's just ONLY into 'ebony'. "My heart belongs to another" can fit in here as well: He doesn't want her he wants someone else.

2) Leave her completely brainfucked from too many orgasms, cum pouring out of every orifice. ALL the orifii. ALL. Give her what she wants; cock and circuses.

3) That's fucking right you're gay. You are pillarmen levels of POSE and FABULOUS, and her female, un-oiled body could never ever hope to arouse even the slightest interest in your finest-chiseled body.

>>47623326
Uh, like all those archetypes that do exactly that?
Have you seen what a Road-Warrior Myrmidon can do?

>>47623333
>orifii
That would be the plural if it was "Orifus", the plural here would be "Orifices".
Though who am I to argue against the quads?

>>47623342
Not that anon, but I haven't. Would you mind explaining it? Because now I'm really interested.

>>47623342
Significantly less than a normal initiator?

>>47623322
Rider effects that can cripple enemies with ease, counters to shut down incoming attacks or eat spells, stances granting divinations and teleportation, the list goes on. They may not be literal wizards, true, but they do get a lot of utility and control effects that never run out. Ever.

>>47623342
>>47623365
So they're the perfect counter to casters then

>>47623391
Yay! An arms race! Exactly what we needed!

>>47623409
Goddamn you can't please everyone

>>47623349
Okay. Alternative by the way is the Lore Warden: You can Myrmidon with either of those.

The Myrmidon gains 6th level initiating, Grit, and a few deeds, they're all very much utility stuff for the most part: Field Bandage, makeshift tools, saving throws, etc. Handy shit. Crit-Fishing not a bad idea, you can regain grit this way.

In exchange for the levels 6/10/14/18th Feats, You get 4+ for skills/lv (it's explicitly stated as compatible with other skill-changers, thus lore-warden), and the partial initiator archetype growth. That's it. You lose so little!


The Road Warrior is a vehicle (ALMOST mechs but a tiny bit weaker though they use their own scores for mounted weapons which means even if you dump the fuck out of dex you could still fire ranged weapons with an 18 dex) user: you get +2 skill points per level that you have to invest in Craft(Mechanical) and Know(Engineering), you don't get heavy armor or shield proficiency, you get a companion vehicle that'll grow with you (like a bike, but you could also choose something to fit the whole party in), replace bravery with better bonuses that work when driving (and if you take a small vehicle you're never NOT driving), Dodge to AC when moving, but you don't get armor training.

The vehicles offer significant protective bonuses including HP to split damage with, stat bonuses, hardness, object energy resistance, and weapon mounts.

>>47623326
Been tempted to just let everything that isn't an initiator spend AoO as a Parry/Dodge ability using their highest skill bonus so it's efficacy matches Counters. Initiators stick to counters because those have other effects too and learning to use them means foregoing the 'lesser' or instinctive training of the AoO methods.

>>47623425
I just want martials to have a 50/50 chance against casters if in an envioronment that favors neither and either reaching a goal first or killing the opponent are both wins.

>>47623437
Uh, actually the initiators would stop using the "ignore attack" counters for 90% of the game (that changes when you get like, kill-time or whatever riven gets at high levels) because it only eats an AoO rather than their immediate.

For 90% of the game the parry/dodge would be FAR, FAR, FAR superior to counters.

>>47623470
They can't though. Initiating means losing the AoO method. I can live with that though. Initiators get wonky add on effects, but are kinda squishy compared to the regular martials.

>>47623495
So literally everyone else would be WAAAAAAAAY fucking better (hi there combat reflexes) at negating attacks, strikes and other abilities than any initiator?

>>47623495
you realize highest skill bonus when you're not forced to spread around or use specific ones like initiators can mean it's guaranteed success, which you could get, say, 1+DEX/turn and then some?

I've got an investigator here with +36 and a +8 dex bonus... he could literally kill two initiators at the same time without them ever being able to touch a hair on him unless they each have five or more attacks because he autonegates the first nine and then gets his whole turn...

>>47623495
>initiators
>squishy compared to regular martials
????

>>47623595
So, handle encounters of basically CR+6 without a sweat then?
+36, you're what, 8, and will also toss in the d6 with that d20 every time?

Gods I love investigators.

>>47623564
That would be the point, yes. Don't worry, you can just have initiators pile on a single enemy until they run out of AoO though, just that now you have several players handling it instead of one DM trying to triple encounter numbers to get past Counters per initiator.

>>47623595
Are you implying that iniators DON'T max out the skills they most depend on for guaranteed wins on counters?

>>47623660
They often can't to the level of some other people; simply put not all skills were created equal.

It's great when it's Perception, but some are stuck trying to find shit that boosts their Sleight of Hand.

In either case, though, making someone completely immune to 2+ characters when pathfinder is rocket tag is a surefire way to end the campaign by TPK.

And when the party *DOES* gang up 3+ on just one guy (leaving the REST of the encounter because guaranteed that new ability isn't changing a single fucking thing in the xp/cr they're having thrown at them) the GM will get annoyed, make a tougher/stronger one next time "to compensate", and it's just gonna get retarded.

At the very least, make the parry use an immediate like everybody else.

>>47623427
I fail to see the problem?
This is fucking amazing by the way

>>47623437
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?136100-3-5-Parry-basic-combat-action-quot-attack-quot-option

https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tactical_Deflect_Projectiles_%283.5e_Feat%29

File: 1428784770787.jpg (88KB, 794x782px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 794x782px

So /pfg/, I need some help. I'm trying to find a way to deal damage with a Dirty Trick. Not deal damage AND do a Dirty Trick, but have the Dirty Trick itself be the source of the damage. Is there any way to do that or deal damage by applying one of the Dirty Trick conditions? (blinded, dazzled, deafened, entangled, shaken, sickened)

>>47623595
What Investigator ability is that? I'm looking through the class and I can't see anything that grants a parry or something similar.

>>47623427
That's because the base fighter was fucking shit, you have lost little because you're actually elevating yourself to what you should've had in the beginning

>>47623736
The Fighter archetypes in PoW/Arcforge and a few others give a lot to make up for the crappiness of the class. You can make an excellent fighter with those.

>>47623832
no no, the skill bonuses.
The parry is what anon is suggesting giving as AoOs.

>>47623837
Anon, I was lauding the archetypes not whining about them.

>>47623841
>>47623861
Cool we're on the same page

>>47623739
I like these pretty well, they just need updated to use skills instead of attack bonuses. As the initiator fans have said before, "What good is a defense with as big a chance to fail as opposed attack rolls?"

>>47623733
If the party does gang up on one guy they eat more attacks from his buddies. Might bring back facing rules so turning your back on an enemy is a bad idea. Say, flat footed to attacks from behind so you can't use AoO to defend. And I can see where using ANY skill is an issue, so might just add a defense skill that's only a class skill to martials. Bump up fighter skills to compensate for the extra need too.

>>47623861
Ohhh, I see. I was asking because there's no parry in the game that's costless that I know of. Snake Style is an immediate action (or Stamina), Opportune Parry and Riposte costs 1 panache per parry, and Swordplay Deflection costs your actual attacks.