Warhammer 40k General

Tactical Marines are now 10 points each, for:
4 4 4 4 1 4 1 9 3+

What gun do they have, and what do you balance the other basic troops to?

>>47598002
Thats the stupidest idea Ive ever heard, unless you want to kill the game by the making the armies even bigger than they already are and we all know how that turned out for WHFB.

>>47598037
If you're rebalancing the entire game, it doesn't matter what points value you balance around. If ratios and rules stay the same, people will just play at lower points values.

>game ends up becoming balance
>/tg/ would probably still be whining

>>47598145
Tau players would explode.

>>47598155
Could you mind bringing popcorn for that?

>>47598155
That's not how you spell Space Marines.

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>>47598155
>it's a shit on Tau players unprovoked thread

>>47597923
So i apparently need an 800 point Dark Angel Army for tomorrow, apparently its limited to one formation and all i really have is like 2 Dark Vengence sets, some extra bikes and a command squad, two trikes and two land speeders.

Also i have Sammael as an HQ.

is there anything i can do with one formation?

>>47598189
>apparently its limited to one formation

Do you mean Detachment?

>>47598187
>unprovoked

But not undeserved.

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First eight Berserker conversions done. Warriors of Blood with CSM pistols and backpacks.

Looks a lot better than the official Berserker kit even with the leather boots.

>>47598211
Every time you start bitching about Tau players unprovoked, you doom another thread to be ruined.

>>47598167
>that's not how you spell WAAC players who'd play Orks if they were OP

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>>47598251
Amen, brother.

>>47598251
maybe thats the trick, flood forums and make videos, includign battlereports how one army is soo much better. It has to be onethat appears to be good on paper but has major flaws.

Get the Waac players to buy the models, and find them cheap on ebay

>>47598251

Well there was that brief period at the end of 4th and the start of 5th where Nob Bikers were really good and WAAC players did exactly that. I remember quite a few converted armies from back then.

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>>47598165
>Could you mind bringing popcorn for that?
Sure thing, I've got a hot air popper so it comes out light and fluffy every time.

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>>47598222
Who's bitching?
One guy that cracks a joke saying 'Tau players heads would explode if 40k got balanced'.
And the hyper-sensitive Taufaggots start shitposting about undeserved whatever and ruined threads. Stop being a pussy, stop being a faggot. Laugh at jokes. You faggots clearly deserve your reputations.

>>47598078
That's not what happened when 2nd became 3rd.

>>47598431
See? What did I fucking tell you? It's already happening. This could've been a good thread.

>>47598217
I dig it.

>>47598052
>Implying tau and eldar wouldn't be a top tier army even if their bullshit options were taken away
I'm sorry you're so shit at playing 40k that you need a point and erase army.

>>47598448
>This could've been a good thread.
Are you new?

>>47598204
yes, that one

Vanguards with Arc Weapons to kill vehicles, good or no?

>>47598446
3rd didn't cut all prices equally, and dramatically changed the rules at the same time as cutting infantry costs.

>>47598448
To be fair, Tau anon did seem to over react to what seemed a harmless jab.

So honestly I think the generic Daemon Prince looks like pants. Any recommendations for a good proxy to build a DP of Khorne out of?

>>47598491
>did seem to over react to what seemed a harmless jab.

A jab isn't harmless if it makes people start bitching. That's harmful.

Who here has Tabletop Simulator and is willing to play over it?

My buddy I usually play with just got lasik surgery and I really want to try out my Genestealer army.

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>>47598167
>Marines have always been top tier bullshit army
Newfag please, abstain from posting if you don't know what you are talking about, i believe it's the first edition they have actually been a solid tier 1 army

>>47598482
But overall army points cost dropped. It stopped being a skirmish game.

If you infinite money, what dream army would you make, and what joke army would you make?

Full-fledged Tyranid hive fleet for dream army and Orks with looted tau stuff, counts-as

>>47598251
Oh please let this be a thing, I need to paint mine before this and be ready when the faggots start flooding the faction, I can see it now, nothing but gorkanauts and other bullshit things.

>>47598542
this. Marines are glorified in the fluff and made out to be these unstoppable killing machines, but the reality of it is the armies are overpriced and you get fucking destroyed in wars of attrition. I found it utterly disgusting when I learned a fucking wraith knight only costs 50 pts more than a landraider.

>hur dur armour 14 lol oh noooo so scary
>10 lance weapons
>tank destroyed
>hehe lucky shot I guess

every eldar player ever.

>>47598472
No, you're in a 40kg, you give them plasma and ally cult mechanicus to spam heavy grav cannons.

>>47598608
>you get fucking destroyed in wars of attrition.

That's what the Guard are for.

:^)

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>>47598518
>makes people start bitching
Oh boy now you've done it, bitching about bitching leads to bitching every time without fail, now you've forced my hand and I need to reply to your post telling you that unwarranted jabs at people who bitch brings out more bitching!

>>47598578
>The Dream.
Imp Guard counts as everything army. I would buy all of the guns from every faction ever, then apply them with some bits to make Necron, Tau, Eldar, etc. Guardsmen.

>As a Joke army.
Ultranids (Nids count as Space Marines).

>>47598579
It would be grots. I10, T7, BS8, WS9, LD10 Grots.

>>47598648
Yeah, I can confirm this. I can usually make games go on till turn 4 or 5 by fielding only infantry and spreading them out to the max.

Do I win
no

>>47598578
Dream army
>Mad Max themed Speed Freaks army
>Converted to perfection

Joke army
>Imperial Guard IRA conversion
>all the soldiers wearing early 1900's european clothing
>armed with early 1900's weapons.

>>47598578
>If you infinite money
Buy Games Workshop.
Unfuck Games Workshop.

>what dream army would you make
Probably a maxed Living Tide formation, plus every other Tyranid formation in existence, maxed of course.

>what joke army would you make
I honestly have never given this any thought. Maybe mass Riptides. I don't know. Though a Hive Fleet detachment with 4 Tervigons and 240 gaunts seems pretty fucking hilarious.

>>47598636
>spamming anything

go fluff or go home.

Every fucking army should be fluffy. Tournaments shouldn't be a thing in 40k.

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>>47598578
Real Army: 30K Death Guard
Joke Army: Probably some kind of Space Marine army based on Megaman X

>>47598542
There is always going to be the one bait guy per thread trying to make it seem that spacemarines are the most hated army.

>>47598578
Dream army:
> The entirety of the Raptors Chapter

Joke army(Which I'm actually now building)
> Entire regiment of Monstergirl abhumans

Sons of Antaeus Chapter Tactics.

I was thinking FNP and spending points to give Space Marines/Veterans +1T.

Maybe improvised boltguns with Gets Hot?

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THIS THREAD NEEDS BINGO

The free tile for today is:
> BUSTY ROUGH RIDERS

>>47598578
Dream
1000 Sisters horde army for apoc.

Joke
Orkquisition, Deff Wotch and/or Orkanicus.

okay tg tell me if this is natural. please don't bitch:
Everytime i hear the word tau i want to kill everything ever. t

>>47598551
>But overall army points cost dropped. It stopped being a skirmish game.

My point is, you're mistaking correlation for causation.

Every unit in 40k costs 50% the current points cost, except for flyers. Would people start playing with armies twice as large? Or would they start playing at 750-1000 points?

Now, imagine squads double in max size, and unit coherency is decreased to 1". Also, transport capacity is doubled. All wargear costs are are eliminated. Squad morale is now dependent on squad size, like old Mob Rule but universal. The number of objectives per mission is doubled.THAT would increase model count.

3rd edition did a bit of both, but the latter is what caused the scale shift.

>>47598608
Most armies on the tabletop are nothing like their fluff.

>>47598687
Just out of curiousity, what would you consider a fluffy Tau or Tyranid list to look like?

>>47598742
This image continues to be tremendously outdated, even with the new additions

Sons of Antaeus (Progenitors: Unknown)
Silent Protectors:
As survivors of the Cursed Founding, the Sons do not have a good reputation, nor do they
interact that much with outsiders.

A Space Marine force that uses these Chapter Tactics may only ally or be allied with Imperial Armies, as Allies of Convenience save Adeptus Mechanicum Skitarii or Inquisition- who they cannot ally with.

Strength Supranatural:
The various Biologias augments added to the Sons of Antaeus by their reckless Mechanicum creators have made them supernaturally hardy and strong. This has influenced their tactics- they march headlong, silent and unwielding, into enemy fire.

Models with these Chapter Tactics gain the Feel No Pain (+5) special rule.

For 5 pts, Space Marines and Space Marine Veterans with these Chapter Tactics may add +1 to their Toughness characteristics.

Models with these Chapter Tactics and the Indepedent Character special rule may re-roll their FNP saves against shooting attacks if they have moved during the Movement Phase during their turn.

Improvised Munitions And Armor
Being cut off from Imperial Supply lines has...made the Sons improvise - almost to the point of tech-heresy. Their bolters are home-made contraptions more likely to jam and explode in battery than fire, and their armor is designed for maximum protection.

When firing Boltguns (including Combi-weapons firing as Boltguns) and Heavy Bolters, models with these Chapter Tactics treat them as having the Gets Hot special rule.

Space Marines or Space Marine Veterans with these Chapter Tactics may replace their Power Armor with Antaean Armor for 5 pts each.
Antaean Armor confers a +2 armor save, but grants the Bulky and Slow and Purposeful special rule.

>>47598786
Well, then let's have a thread about new topics for the Bingo post. The recent new additions are "Raptors Anon/Lias Issodon is Big Boss", "Tau Player bragging about 5 riptides in a casual game", and "Riptides are underpowered".

I know the Raptors Anon tile is still accurate, because raptors anon posted in this thread exactly two posts above mine. You can tell it's raptors anon because he will literally never shut up about how he's collecting the entire chapter.

The new tiles need to be either current memes, or shit that constantly happens on the board, or can be counted on to happen occasionally.. Such as the case of the tau player bragging about riptides in a casual game.

>>47598578
My dream army
>3 warlord titans
>4 Reavers
>2 Warhounds
>6 Murader bombers
3x10 Russ platoons with 5 B&Battle cannons, 4 variants, and one commander each.
>20 Enginseers with Trojans
>2 baneblades
>1 stormsword
>1 shadowsword
>1 malcador infernus
>100 scoins
>20 vendettas
>Macharius on a capitol Imperialis

My joke and part of my real army would be
>1300 conscripts
>65 priests
>65 commisars
>100 Ogryns
>400 sentinels.

>>47598764
>Tau

Congrats you're now a Necron Destoyer.

>>47598786
>Most armies on the tabletop are nothing like their fluff.
I know, but that doesn't stop people from hating on space marines.

>oh fuck off faggot marine players think your guys are so tough
>glory boys
>op marines omg str 4 t 4 lol wow 3+ so good wow
>kill 8 or 9 marines
>half the army is dead
>overwatch gets added to the game
>cause aliens needed another free round of shooting
>but its just bs 1 lol cry more noob
>ok so for overwatch I get 40 shots blah blah blah im an alien faggot

>>47598578
>dream army
Fury of the ancients Iron Warriors Army outmaxed, every slot a Dread can be taken and Perty with iron circle for the sake of it as Warlord

>fun army
Nids, only big bugs, painted like a mantis breed I forgot the name of.

>>47598764
It is. I don't hate Tau, I just don't have time for them.

>>47598886
wait wot m8. i don't know much about necrons.

>>47598934
Destroyers have "Preferred Enemy: Everything" for a reason, they fucking want to kill everything.

>>47598952
does anything have prefered enemy:tau

>>47598786
> Most armies on the tabletop are nothing like their fluff
I love to refer people to D-Scythes. Their fluff is that they literally rip people's souls from their bodies. On the tabletop, this translates to the ability to instantly vaporize tanks, and split huge chunks out of titans.

>>47598894
Do, uh... do you think xenos don't assault?

>>47598578
>If you infinite money, what dream army would you make,

God, I'd probably want everything. If I had to pick just one, it'd probably be some HH marine army. Dunno which.

>and what joke army would you make?

An Ork army made entirely of custom Kroot counts-as, modelled to be Kroot mercenaries that killed, ate, and looted an ork Waaagh.

>>47598966
/tg/

More seriously I think there is but I'd need to go digging through books to find it.

>>47598986
They're ripping out the machine spirits.

>>47599040
Pssst. Hey, tech-brother, those aren't real

>>47598852
Calling out Carnac could be one, considering he doesn't turn up here much anymore it makes it less likely to happen.

And those fucking weird images some guy adds to his posts, like a cross between an avatarfag and a mentalist. "unfuckables" magazine fronts and collages of obese black metal bands aren't really related to 40k at all strangely enough.

>>47599051
Thought it was the limited AI in Imperial vehicles (usually using a Servitor brain).

But yeah it's sometimes meaningless too, like when talking about a hive scum's autogun.

>>47598786
>Just out of curiousity, what would you consider a fluffy Tau or Tyranid list to look like?

Depends on the theme, but it really comes down to not picking what's best on the table and spamming it, but picking what makes sense for your army.

I like footslogging Tyrants, I like warriors and pyrovores, so I put them in there.

Tau, I haven't done much with, but again, don't just pick what's good on the table, pick what you like the look of and fits what you're trying to do with your army, if you want one that's heavy on the Auxiliaries, have a bunch of em.

Basically don't min-max. I've seen too many fucking lists that were basically just a single unit x 10.

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>>47598966
I would check IA2 to see if any Legacies of Glory give PE:Tau, but then I mentally slapped myself as I realized that none of the Legacies of Glory would ever give a benefit for a race that wasn't around for the Horus Heresy.

>>47599040
Yea no, I'm not buying that. Explain how ripping out the machine spirit of a land raider makes it explode faster when shot by lascannons?

>>47599057
You mean like these pictures? They're from some video the Alfa Legion guys made. it's called "Inquisitor: Retarded Edition". I thought it was weird too until I saw that video and recognized the images.

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>>47599051
Dinosaur lover detected.
>>47599071
A Black Templar's bolt pistol begged the Emperor to not let it suffer an ignoble end.

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>>47599057
>like a cross between an avatarfag and a mentalist

?

>>47599100
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mentalist

>>47599087
I don't know man. I just don't know. It's how I think it works.

>>47599092
>A Black Templar's bolt pistol begged the Emperor to not let it suffer an ignoble end.
Source?

And I think there have been references to digital ammo counters on some Marine weapons that requires some computing. The rest is probably the background human psychic effect on their surroundings (like a lower level Ork effect).

>>47599087
Legacies of Ruin might have some. Some of the Legacies are post Heresy after all.

>>47599134
The Damnination Crusade comic.

>>47598578
>dream army
The entirety of the ultramarines legion right before calth. Every single bit of it would have to be 100% lore accurate

>joke army
An unbound inquistion army consisiting of nothing but 1000 jokero and 10,000 servitors.

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>>47599087
Nah shit like this.

>>47599100
lel

>>47599151
Yea, I just checked. No Legacies of Glory that grant Preferred Enemy: Tau. The only legacy that would realistically be useful against tau would probably be War on Murder, for Monster Hunter. So you can piss off tau players that spam riptides by rerolling to wound against them.

>>47598990
>Do, uh... do you think xenos don't assault?
honestly, no.

nerfed D weapon eldar harder.
fixed sniper rifles.

you're welcome.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/692325.page#8684254

>>47599171
Huh. Don't remember that but it's been a while.

>>47599274
It was the scene where the aliens dragged off the dead Templar and left his gun behind.

>>47599222
Legacies of Ruin seem to have most of the Xenos rules it seems.

>Perdus Rift Anomaly: Gives the vehicle Preferred Enemy (Tau), but also gives you a re-roll for the seize/forces the other guy to re-roll the seize.

>>47599302
Like I said it's been a while. I've read a lot of other stuff since then.

>>47599223
get your head out of your ass

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>>47598966
>does anything have prefered enemy:tau
Yes, faith and fury given form, wielding the fires of retribution, the motherfucking OBSIDIAN KNIGHT!

Tyranid Warriors are now a Sergeant upgrade to Gaunt units, and if a gaunt unit has a Warrior they gain the Instinctive Behavior buff. Genestealers with a Broodlord now gain Furious Charge. Tyranid Primes are now 75 points and are non-compulsory HQ choices of 0-5. They can join units of 30 gaunts or 3 Monstrous Creatures and give +1 BS or WS to that unit as well as the Instinctive Behaviour buff. Footslogging Tyrants are now 2+ (winged tyrants go back to 3+), Tyrant Guard are now 2+ and Hive Guard are now BS5. Haruspex and Tyrannofex are both now 140 points, the Toxicrene is WS4. The Maleceptor is 155 points. Zoanthropes gain +1 WC for each model added to the brood instead of BoC+2. Tyrannocytes gain a Spore Pod assault, which is Drop Pod assault with the terms switched, and cost 50 base and +50 for the weapon options.

>>47598966
Well, why would anything?

They haven't been around long enough for any faction to have that much experience fighting them.

>>47598990
>Do, uh... do you think xenos don't assault?
Only the orks and look were they are, tyranids rely more on shooting and bodies than actually assaulting.

>>47599373
Handing out free synapse?

I don't think so.

>>47599345
I will when an alien army assaults me.

>I don't blame them for not doing it
>str 3 vs t4 after all

>>47599237

Those Ork changes are straight up awful. Just as an example, giving Orkanauts a transport capacity of 12 doesn't make them worth taking, and the fact that you think that it actually would shows that you don't really understand the basic issues with the Ork codex.

>>47599389
You could make that same argument against tau themselves, yet they have a couple of preferred enemy's I'm pretty sure.

>>47599389
They've left an impression though. Stealing up men and women from the Imperium turning them to mindless weeboos, shooting everyone before they get into assault(Nids, Orks, Khornates), and they probably raped a Farseer.

>>47599221
is that a boy or a girl?

>>47599407
>free
40 ppm for a sergeant upgrade, but it actually does something. Where did you get the free idea from?

>>47599421
this has to be b8

>>47598578
Two warhound titans and a Reaver titan supported by three knights, the 50 odd space marines I have now, and 20 dreadnoughts.
And the joke army would be orks.

>>47599457
nah its not b8. I play against mostly tau and eldar players and I only get assaulted by wraith knights and wraith guards, the tau players don't even move.

>>47599435
I haven't a clue, all I know is those images are unnerving as fuck.

>>47599367
cannot unsee. Obsid knight head looks like monkey head. the visor is the mouth, from their you can find it.

>>47599438
Free as in freedom.

>>47599487
>tau and eldar are all xenos
play with some other faggots then

>>47599490
Looks like something a lesbian couple might do to their child.

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>>47599134

>>47599430

>Orkanauts

Dropping those to 180 points would make them a nice investment on the table.

Ork Walkers are supposed to be cheap anyway.

>>47599430
okay. I'm listening.

Whats wrong with the changes/whats missing?

>>47599134
thats the fucking marine you god damn autist!

If someone rewrote all of 40's core rules and codexes, what would it take for you to play it?

Have you ever played using homebrew rules someone other than you invented, like a fandex?

>>47599557
desu i only skimmed most of the new ork units. I dropped the superheavy to 500 points, (was thinking maybe even 450, 400) but i didn't take much of a hard look at their air units or the new transports.

>>47599493
Stop forcing your uninspired meme

>>47599509
no one plays dark eldar, obviously orcs and nids assault. its really just tau and eldar that are faggots.

>>47599585
Meh. Redeemer was better.

What to build this kit as, Blastajet, dakkajet, or blitza bomma?

Also, what the heck does a tellyporta mega blasta do? For some reason the mega isn't working for me.

>>47599373
>Tyranid Warriors are now a Sergeant upgrade to Gaunt unit
No. Fuck no. I stopped reading there. I have been a nidfag for fucking ever and your ideas a awful.

Orks really should have some sort of durability mechanic.

They don't wear armor to the extent other races do, they're just naturally tough. You could use FnP or +1 W across the board, but that's boring. They need something unique, like Necrons have.

>>47599675
what? i just noticed it.

>>47599509
>Expecting anyone new to play de, orks and tyranids on their current state
>Not expecting players of those armies to move to armies that are actually playable
My dark eldars and orks are shelved and they'll remain there for a while

>>47599721
thank you, i'm glad somebody said it.

>>47599737
>playing an army because its whats good
>not because you like the fluff and the looks
kys

>>47599626
If they were well made and focused on decent balance, sure. I routinely play my space marines against the Space 0Din fandex, and quite thoroughly enjoy it.

Although there are also other fandexes that I would never play against. Codex: Thousand Sons is made by an insufferable faggot with no sense of balance, who cares only about countering all of the faggotry in 40k with mroe faggotry. While Codex: Knights Inductor(Which I've participated in -trying- to balance), suffers the problem of having a main creator that just won't let go of the past.. He keeps making the same mistakes over and over again with the codex, and just can't figure out what the fuck he wants to do with it.

>>47599737
I can't find anything wrong with DE, they seem fine.

>>47599728
No, you didn't, you did the same shit on the previous 2 threads.

>>47599725
No rules bloat is necessary, just FNP works fine alongside a rule that increases the FNP rating when a WAAAGH! is called.

>>47599704
did i just get trolled?

I meant the guy who said he thought the bolter pistol was doing a voiceover, not the marine

>>47599763
that wasn't me. on the last thread i posted my list.

>>47599753
Sorry for not liking to see my beloved army be shot dead before it do shit, it's no fun and for what? Kill at most two units and some dudes on their other units? Fuck that, they deserve better and only use them when my close friends who aren't dicks.

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Your job is now to balance 40k list building without using any point restrictions. How do you do it?

>>47599753
I don't understand this.

There's fluff, there's looks, and there's gameplay. I care about all three. If one is lacking, I don't want to play that army.

Bottom tier armies are currently no fun to play.

>>47599800
Shut it anyways, please, we don't need more shit on this already full of shit thread.

>>47599557
>Solutions 1: Undo 7th Ed Nerfs

When you say "Un-nerf Nobz", it doesn't make much sense. Nobz got a straight up buff with 7th ed; they dropped 2ppm, 'eavy armour was made cheaper, they got free Stikkbombz and Nob Bikers didn't change in points at all. Painboyz are a bit of a tossup since we gained them as HQ choices for any unit, whereas before they were exclusively for Nobz.

What hurt Nobz was Cybork bodies changing to a 6+ FNP which is completely worthless when it took away the only source of constant invul saves. Nobz were already bad in the 6th and 7th ed environment because they're paying major points for no survivability and poor selections of weapons. They're essentially a Deathstar unit that can't Deathstar. 70 points buys you a Nob with PK on a Bike.

>Unnerf TankHammers, make them S 10 again

Issue with TankHammers is that they're Ap3, so they can't do the very thing they're designed to do: kill vehicles.

>Unnerf Mob Rule, just put it back the way it was

Mob Rule really only affected big units, and realistically this meant it only really affected Boyz. At least the new one has some effect on smaller units. Don't get me wrong, the new one is shit, but rolling back to the old one doesn't fix shit.

The issues facing Orks are vast. Most units have poor statlines, and are crippled at range by BS2 and in melee by Initiative 1, 2 or 3. Weapon options are extremely lacking, our army rules are bad and don't benefit much of the army.

(cont.)

>>47599860
Every codex gets a very strict decurion, CADs and Unbound are removed.

I make the new Decurions well balanced internally and externally, but try to provide as many options as reasonably possible.

>>47599759
What army do you play?

>>47599881
Orks gotta have low BS though! It's iconic!

I don't get their low I, though. That one has always escaped me.

>>47599912
Orks are very polite and let humans attack first

>>47599893
used to play tau, before tau became faggots.

Now I play space marines.

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>>47599860
Here's the better version of that pic.

>>47599933
what is wrong with classic ultras?

>>47599965
Other than autism you mean?

>>47599860
every army gets battlefocus and holo fields

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>>47598578
it's definitely an issue of time and not money for me.
>what dream army would you make
drookian fen guard

>what joke army would you make
chaos space marines

>>47599980
Tzeentch, how is liking the older color scheme autism?

>>47599860
Unit and wargear cards. Required is 1 HQ card and 2 troops cards. Then standard CAD for the rest. Wargear cards are limited based on how many unit cards are in play and the amount of unit cards per side must be matching.

1 HQ card could have 2 apothecaries on it, a chapter master or even a command squad.

Continuing with the space marine example a unit card of a tactical squad would have on it what the unit can be made up of (in this case, 5 or 10 marines) and which wargear cards it must take (if 5 marines are chosen 1 special, if 10 1 special and 1 heavy).
The "why would you ever not take 10 marines?" question is answered through the fact that the wargear card limit is tied to the amount of unit cards in play, so you'd soon run out of wargear options.

>>47599789
Probably.

>>47599881

Orks have the worst leadership in the game and suffer badly against rules that most people consider to be garbage, like Fear. Many units are overcosted for what they do and all our vehicles suffer from being vehicles in an edition that hates vehicles. When orks do hit home they tend to do poorly due to low Strength and average WS. We have almost the worst models for challenges in the game, second only to armies that avoid challenges, like Guard and Tau.

Anyway, to continue

>Solution 2: Basic Buffs

Making Boyz MORE expensive helps nothing. They're not worth taking at their current points, and an 'Ard Boy with Shoota and extra CC weapon would clock in at 11 points under your proposed changes. The issue with investing points into Boyz to make them better is that their main point is supposed to be cheapness. When they were Fearless and a single KFF could cover multiple mobs and Ignore Cover wasn't spammed everywhere and shit like Wyverns and Riptides didn't exist, Boyz were good. To make them decent in today's environment would take something seriously drastic.

I4 across the board helps, sure, except our only real option for melee weapons drops us to I1.

Effigy getting a buff is nice, but still doesn't justify sinking 800 points into a Stompa. Orkanauts are just terrible; make them Super-heavies and they'd be merely average.

>>47599912

It's also iconic for Orks to spray ammo everywhere. So lets give all Ork weapons twin-linked.

>>47598578
Dream full blown word bearers chaos force with fw and 3rd pary bits and allied lost and dammed with both rabble and elite.

Joke would be rammstien csm army with working speakers on a defiler/drum platform. That said i have parts of it sitting in the depths of my hobby room along with other projects, kickstarter models and my bfg.

>>47599881
>they dropped 2ppm
didn't say change the point cost
>eavy armour was made cheaper
And I made it even cheaper
>they got free Stikkbombz
didn't say I was changing that either
>Cybork bodies changing to a 6+ FNP
I had no idea, added a 5+ FNP for Cybork to the list
>70 points buys you a Nob with PK
reduced the cost of PK by 10 points
>Issue with TankHammers is that they're Ap3
thought they were ap 2. added that to the list
>Mob Rule really only affected big units, and realistically this meant it only really affected Boyz. At least the new one has some effect on smaller units. Don't get me wrong, the new one is shit, but rolling back to the old one doesn't fix shit.

I liked mob rule. Maybe you could just up elites (tankbustas, burnas, & commandos) and nobs morale?

>Most units have poor statlines

>crippled at range by BS2
BS2 is iconic. Its why orks rely on templates, blasts and massed fire.
>Initiative 1, 2 or 3
changed it to 4

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>>47599789
>>47600087
I wasn't trolling. The marine was dead, machine spirits are real so it's easy to assume the gun was doing the talking. Compared to everything else in 40k is it too silly to think machines have souls?

>>47600126
>It's also iconic for Orks to spray ammo everywhere. So lets give all Ork weapons twin-linked.

Nah, I don't think twin-linked is the awnser. Instead, orks should just have the most shots. Instead of having 10 boyz with 10 twinlinked bs 2 shots, give them 20 shots at bs 2. Fits the "Dakka" mentality. Its not about accuracy, but saturation.

>>47600177
this, if nids can shoot 2-3 times then why not orks too

>>47600126
>an 'Ard Boy with Shoota and extra CC weapon would clock in at 11
It costs chaos 2ppm for a extra CCW, and space marines can't even take one unless they ditch their bolter. I already gave choppas reroll 1's to wound (its up in the chainswords post) I can't change orks without changing chaos.

>KFF
I don't really know much about this. Is this another nerf?

>Effigy getting a buff is nice, but still doesn't justify sinking 800 points into a Stompa

Thats why i reduced it to 500 points

>So lets give all Ork weapons twin-linked.
That sounds like over kill.

>>47600126

>Solution 3: Reduced Point Costs

Largely pointless. Kommandos at 8 ppm are still just Boyz with infiltrate and the ability to take 2 Burnas. They still can't really accomplish much. Now, if they had Tankbusta bombs, like their FUCKING MODELS ACTUALLY HAVE, they'd have an actual role: infiltrating tank hunters. Give them the ability to make a piece of terrain dangerous terrain and we'd have something fluffy and possibly effective.

>Solution 4: Alternative Loadouts

The ability to take multiple detachments has largely made FOC manipulation pointless. Sure it would be nice but it doesn't really change much.

>Solution 5: Flash Gitz Overhaul

Flash Gitz in 4th, 5th and 6th were frankly awful. They were hideously overcosted and their weapon upgrades just made it far worse. Gitz are a classic example of being a generalist, and specialists always beat generalists. Besides, even with massive buffs, they're simply not going to be a unit that you can base an entire army around. Flyrants can do it because of being FMCs.

>>47600177

Works for me. Would love to see it.

>>47600168

>BS2 is iconic. Its why orks rely on templates, blasts and massed fire.

I don't deny it's iconic. But it's also iconic that Orks spit out ridiculous amounts of firepower to compensate for that, and the units simply don't reflect that. You could literally double the shots on every Ork weapon and you wouldn't break the game.

Give vehicles an armour save based on their AV
10 4+, 11-12 3+, 13-14 2+
makes vehicles more durable and less likely to be glanced to death, let's AT weapons be as as effective as they should be

>>47599925
Well to level it to you, they are too flimsy, they aren't even a glass cannon like they are supposed to be, almost every army have ways to circumvent the dark eldars"strong points" and almost all units are thin as paper and won't receive an armour save, all their special rules were nerfed, and many of their other gimmicks were removed for no reason the reason is that they didn't had the options on the miniatures and after the chapter house incident many options were removed, so every trick for their survivality can be easily avoided by most armies.

-1 the dark eldars aren't meant to be static so you'll need transports for everything or they'll die horribly

-2 since they in transports if it moves more than 6" you snap shoot everything so good luck hitting anything

-3 your vehicles have the same survivality of your foot guys and they'll die to most armies basic weapons, oh and don't expect them to be cheap, you'll need to pay almost 80 points to be worth plus the price of your unit.

-4 power from pain? The army special rule? Yeah, you'll be better if you don't count with it, tour guys will be long dead before it actually begin to gain benefits from it

-5Your vehicles will die and will take many of your guys with it, sorry.

-6 Your guys are t3, orks have a 6+ but that T4? You'll wish you had it.

-7 venoms are the only good vehicles for theirgood rate of fire, but they are useless against vehicles and will be most likely shoot down almost immediately.

-8 you don't have anything to give you an edge, no chapter tactics, no grav, no scatbikes, no D, riptide, no nothing; enjoy your average 10/11 vehicles and your 5+ t3 guys, now gid gud.

>>47600330
>if they had Tankbusta bombs
good idea, i'll add it to the list

>made FOC manipulation pointless
I still prefer not to have to pay a troop tax.

>>47600237
this is always a terrible argument

>>47599864
Can't make a damn joke here.

>>47600177
what the hell are you talking about?
they shootas already assault 2

Or... did they change that too?

Okay, how about this.

SHOOTA BANGA-2 points per model.
Str 3 ap-
42 inch range
Special rule: TRIGGA HAPPY
Can fire on of three profiles.
BS:3, heavy 1/ BS:2 rapidfire/ BS1: Assault 4

>>47600168

>I had no idea, added a 5+ FNP for Cybork to the list

This is what you just don't get. Cybork being a 5+ FNP doesn't help us. We have no way to get a melee Invul save and not even our HQ models can take an item that gives them an Invul save. Cybork used to be that, then it was taken away. We can give any unit we like a 5+ FNP thanks to Painboyz; what we need is access to invul saves again.

>It costs chaos 2ppm for a extra CCW, and space marines can't even take one unless they ditch their bolter.

Yes, and it's shit. If you're aiming to make Orks straight up better than taking examples from other failed concepts isn't a good way to do it. That's how we got the Cybork body disaster; some rule-writer at GW decided that because cybernetic upgrades on Space Marines gave them a 6+ FNP, then Orks should be the same.

>Thats why i reduced it to 500 points

More reasonable, still not worth it. People barely take the Forge World Mekastompa and they can get that one for 400.

>I liked mob rule. Maybe you could just up elites (tankbustas, burnas, & commandos) and nobs morale?

Now you're getting it. Nobz should be LD8, just like many other squad leader upgrades. All HQ choices should be +1 LD across the board.

>>47600414
I don't know the profiles, I was just arguing against having twinlinked and promoting more shots.

>>47600468
More Dakka is always better

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>>47598518
>A jab isn't harmless if it makes people start bitching. That's harmful
>if it makes people start bitching
>makes people start
>makes

Is this /tg/? Because it looks like someone is making excuses for anon being a sopping wet pussy. Perhaps reddit would be better for you if you think an anonymous reply 'makes' you react. Go hang out with the trigger faggots, thats where you belong. Seriously though, get the fuck out.

>>47599237
>you're welcome.
Why would anyone be thankful for a schizophrenic list that can't be used as is and largely fails to accomplish its goals?

>>47600367
Your save is your remaining hull points subtracted from six.

This save always counts as 2+ for the purposes of AP.

>>47600465

>People barely take the Forge World Mekastompa and they can get that one for 400.

If you mean Buzzgob's, you get a better deal taking the Kustom Stompa than his.

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>finally play a game of 40k after a few months
>1k daemons against skittarri maniple with admech starter formation
>big guns never tire at table sides on 4 feet table
>blue scribes, khorne herald on jugger, 10 daemonettes with champ, 10 horrors with banner, 9 flesh hounds, 5 screamers, skull cannon and burning chariot
>4 feet table at the local GW
>got 1st turn, wiped out a unit of rangers(?) with fire from the skullcannon and burning chariot, sydonian dragoon immobilized from doombolt pink horror so it does nothing all game
>his turn flesh hounds shot to hell so only a hound and herald are left alive
>screamers get into a slapfight with infiltrators
>tech priest runs over to dragoon to maybe fix it
>my turn another unit dies and he's lost heart despite getting +3 ws and killing the khorne herald with dog unit

game ends about turn 3. score was 2 to 1 but another turn and i'd have cleaned the table. the blue scribes didn't get anything useful, daemonettes just held an objective. i smashed through him pretty fast. i didn't pull my punches or use anything really strong but i got in his face too fast to be stopped. 1k is kinda fun, time to pull out those slaanesh chariots i've been hiding away.

>>47600465
>Cybork being a 5+ FNP doesn't help us
sorry, brainfart. I meant it to be invul, not FNP. I didn't catch that and was kinda just aping what you said, but I know how it used to work. I'll go change it.
>chaos 2ppm for a extra CCW
my point is about cascading changes. Sometimes, even if you would like to change something, you have to change so many other things that its not worth.
>Forge World Mekastompa and they can get that one for 400.
Where is this located?
I'll got check it out and do a cost comparison.

I didn't really look any of the new units or air units for the orks, and I kinda skimmed their HQ's as well.

Are there any other nerfs for orks that i should be made aware of?

>>47600609
>Sometimes, even if you would like to change something, you have to change so many other things that its not worth.

Do you actually work for GW?

Because I'd believe it.

>>47600410
Not since the chicken, that was a joke and look how it end up.

>>47600375
I'm half convinced that a powerful enough Mont'ka style: add detachments and formations, and some wargear upgrade could do a lot to solve Deldar's problems.

Mind you, it's would be pretty powerful options, but I started thinking what those were during the really slow day at work today.

Given that the Covens already got there thing, and it's alright, it would be Cabals and Cults.

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>>47600660
People got pretty damn butthurt when I made this last night, but it didn't cause anywhere near as much shitposting as the chicken did at least.

>>47600674
>I'm half convinced that a powerful enough Mont'ka style: add detachments and formations, and some wargear upgrade could do a lot to solve Deldar's problems.

Disgusting, You will either end up with a shitty decurion or the worst fluff written yet.

The easiest fix for Deldar is easy.


Take Doom of Mymera and then rename all the units and make it the new dark eldar codex

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What are some of your favorite tactics or setups to use when deploying your models? Do your prefer a single spearhead or a sort of pincer formation? What units are the most integral to your setups?

>>47600682
Its pretty gay, Fa|v|. You could've atleast put some effort and actually matched the fucking picture to the edges of the middle square. Its not even fucking centered you retard.

>>47598542
Blood Angels were top tier in third, and space wolves were top tier in fifth.

>>47600639
Ramshackle on trukks went from this d6 chart upon explosion
(heavy paraphrasing completely from memory)
1-2: the boyz get out as the trukk crumples apart into a wreck.
3-4: the boyz get out as the trukk driver continues on his course 2d6 inches forward before exploding
5-6: The trukk explodes and each boy inside takes a S3 hit

To a 6+ chance to turn pens into glances.

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>>47600746
Finally, someone gets properly butthurt about it for all the best reasons.

>>47600644
I think perhaps you're giving GW too much credit :)

>>47599860
Rebuild the game from scratch.

>>47600660
How did it end up. I wasn't really paying attention

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>>47598217
Nice job. They look how Khornate Berserkers should look from the get-go.

>>47600170
Wasn't the Marine Tankred who lived?

>>47600674
They need a formation, rework again PFP, some new rule to help their shooting(I don't want battle focus), the aerial assault on all the vehicle units(dark eldar are faster than eldars), to give us our old options back, the lost special characters back rework some units.

>>47600762
Those are marines+ and relied upon units/options that weren't available to normal marines , the codex space marines is the common space marine and that was never a top tier army.

anybody else here think sternguard and vangaurd should be Troop choices?

>>47600842
Some anons didn't like it and then it got a snowball effect with name calling and shitposting, the usual

>>47598578
>what dream army would you make

Army of heavily-personalized, converted Slaanesh Marines, with each one different from the other and with heavy conversion on every single model - Daemon parts, Heresy-era armor and weapon patterns mixed with modern ones, and a custom Daemon Knight of Slaanesh with a gigantic crab claw in place of a Foe Reaper and reticulated double-jointed legs that end in massive hooves, with speakers and censor balls hanging all across its screaming armor.

>and what joke army would you make?

A very heavily converted army Slaaneshi R&H army with bare-bones Troops and a kitted out Arch-Demagogue, and the rest of the army is nothing but 3 squads of 10 Ogryns of Slaanesh, with Carapace Armor, a Lascutter, and Curse of Mutation.

Ogryns are overpriced, but holy fuck is it hilarious to charge ten of them into the enemy with potentially 9 attacks EACH on the charge (!) and watch them just obliterate anything lower than T7, and at T5 W3 they just don't fucking die.

>>47600971
Nah, that seems kind of silly. If anything I could see Scout Bikers, since Bikers can be troops and Scouts can be troops.

>>47600971
not that it really matters, since 1st company detachments are a thing?

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>>47598854
>100 Ogryns
>400 sentinels.

Jesus Christ anon

are you me

>>47600717
hardly, a full new codex could fix it pretty easily by giving the transports and/or infantry that lets them get more movement while shooting and charging, and better able to use cover and invuln saves.
And Wargear that stops overwatch, or more access to pinning.

In terms of formations and Detachment:
Detachment:Night Fighting on 2+, then 3+, then 4+ for turns after that.
And either nightfighting on 2+, then 3+ then 4+, or base cover save on first turn.

Core: Options
Cabal Foot: Archon, 3 cabalites, 1-3 Trueborn. Everybody gets infiltrate or maybe scout.
Cabal Mech: Same as above, but everyone in a transport
Fire at BS after moving 12" or jinking in transport.
Cults: Succubus, 3 witches, 1-3 elite witches.
Roll twice for combat drugs: if you get a double you get the pick the second bonus
Stop overwatch.
+1 to invuln saves (this means 6+ against shooting).


A formation of three ravangers that give them the cover save buff of Crimson Death.
I have more.

>>47598578
>dream army

Fully fluff-accurate representation of the Aurora space marine chapter. All 10 companies, tons of vehicles, proper colors and markings on all the squads. Preferably painted by someone other than me so it doesn't suck.

>Joke army

Ork pirates. Mostly Lootas, with an Ork Submersible called the Red Orktober, and a pair of Looted Imperial Knights based of Megas XLR & Gurren Lagann

>>47600870
> to give us our old options back
other than the characters, which I get, what are these options that need to come back?

Because last time I asked that question I got shit like 'ability to take power axes', which I'm gonna say, makes no sense for the damn faction.

>>47600860
Yep. Tankred endured throughout the entire comic, and shot a daemon prince in the head. Also there was a 1k Son warband that had a horrible color scheme.

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>>47601065
Maybe

>>47600823
I played 40k in around 4th and 5th edition.

I'd only ever get back into it if the rules were greatly simplified. I don't care for rolling a billion dice to see if my shots hit, then another half billion to roll for wounding, then rolling another million for a special skill or ability, and then the other guy rolls a million for armor saves and another million for special skills and shit, and then the end results of 20 minutes of dice rolling and looking up tables to determine what rolls are needed for what results in 2 guys dead in a squad of 10. And then a million things happen next like going to ground, moving around, leadership tests, etc etc.

and then you do all that again with your next squad.

like fuck that. I'm getting back into epic armageddon and I love how resolving shit is simpler. A units weapons have an anti-personnel and anti-tank "chance to hit" number. You shoot at something and roll the dice, you hit or miss. If you hit, he rolls an armor save, and then units die. It's overall less dice, and there's less crap going on. morale and suppression and everything are dealt with by blast markers, and you don't need to worry about the exact special kind of pistol an individual soldier has. Instead it's like "k this whole formation has like, guns, and a firefight value of 4+. Oh and they have a missile launcher".

Besides, I can have a whole army for much cheaper than 40k miniatures, even considering the minis are out of print. Like fuck paying almost 100$ for some vehicle or HQ choice, and 50$ for a squad of 10 guys. I can spend 100$ and have almost a complete epic 40k army.

>>47599051
>>47599071
>>47599134
During the Siege of Rynnsworld the machine spirit of a Crimson Fist Landraider started the tank by itself, and proceeded to go on a rampage through ork lines for like 24 hours before being destroyed.

The reason Deathwatch marines, Librarians, Chaplains, and Techmarines always have at least one pauldron denoting their chapter is to assuage the pride of the machine spirit of their armour. Apparently they get a bit temperamental when you strip away their chapter iconography / colours.

>>47600944
Las/Plas and Tank Hunter / Elite Devastator Squads traits were pretty good for most of fourth.

>>47601278
The sergeant with the power sword in space hulk has some fluff about how his suit of terminator armour got pissy when he wore a power fist with it, so the blood angels handed him a power sword instead which he would have ended up getting anyway as a terminator sergeant.

Would giving BA's and Raven Guard Assault marines as troop choices break the game?

>>47601149
Who doesn't want a wall of bullgryns guarding a huge mass of sentinels?

>>47601459
no

>>47601260
Part of the games draw is its complexity.

I think if you wanted a kids version of 40k you should make a seperate version, like Battletech did with alpha strike.

>>47601505
Then why the fuck did GW decide that they shouldnt have them as troops?

>>47601278
hehe, thats cool

>>47599051
In Kauyon the Raven Guard dupe a Tau convoy by sending empty Rhinos at them piloted only by "noble machine-spirits."

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>>47601563
the game was changing anon, sometimes things need to die. by taking away jump pack troops they can add in formations to give you more chances to take jump pack troops.

can't do that to bikers though because it's a corner stone of vanilla and the 80s were totally radical.

>>47601563
Blood Angels used to, and Vanilla marines could take a trait in 4th that gave them jump packs as troops.

Ravenguard don't use more jump packs than codex marines, they just revolve a lot of their tactics around their impact / surprise.

How do you run Reclusiam Command Squads tee gee?

>>47601548
meh. I can appreciate a complex game, but in the past few years I've grown a larger appreciation for games that are as simple as possible while still providing a fun and interesting game and/or a simulation of combat.

>>47601644
But other than some half assed formations the BA's got from Shield of Baal nothing was givin to them.
>>47601663
really i thought the raven guard did but i guess i just remember my fluff wrong

>>47601668
I don't

>>47601663
I feel like Raven Guard could use more, if only because there's some variance there. For example, Veteran squads are a mix of jump packs and other wargear, so Raven Guard would likely have more equipped with jump packs. Likewise, they'd probably favor them over Assault Centurions or the like.

>>47598578
I want an army that matches up with the Dark Angels.

Or at the least the Deathwing.

I've already got my Joke army in the form of 25 eversors.

>>47601632
Man that would take modern day technology to see through - literally.

>>47601737
What really pisses me off about the Shield of Baal book is that even after having entire sections of fluff dedicated to the second company of the blood angels we didnt get rules/model for Captain Aphael

>>47601737
BA got a raw deal; you're the step child out of the marines now and dark angels got bumped up in social status. there's a weird trend where the books in 7th didn't get a buff or a decurion. dark eldar and orks (for a while) suffer from this fate as well. KDK was a fluke and ally books don't count.

for the MEQ i would say it goes vanilla > dark angels >= space wolves > grey knights > blood angels

>>47598578
>Dream Army?

All the forces of the Inquisition. Grey Knights, Exorcists, Sisters (with pretty plastic faces!), Deathwatch, Malleus, Hereticus, Xenos, all those random Ordos, and shitloads of Acolytes and Stormtroopers.

>joke army

inb4 above

good guys force:

farsight

salamanders

those silver sisters

lamenters

all in one big, allied army that focused on melee and had no grav guns of any sort.

>>47601904
Lets hope for Warzone Baal bringing all the goodness of a decurion or maybe some cool named characters or flyers.

>>47598578
Dream Army:
>Entire Storm Wardens chapter
or
>Full Imperial Fists legion

Joke Army:
>Orks that use pieces of Centurions and Ad-Mech shit as their gear, warbosses in full Centurion suits

>>47601948
>Full Imperial Fists legion
>Full
>Legion

holy fuck that'd be so many marines

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>>47601919
careful what you wish for

>>47602024
Well, depends on the legion, and at which point in the crusade/heresy/scouring.
Like the thousand sons would only be 1000 marines after the burning of prospero. Unless you count the blodd ravens, but who knows how many Astartes were in the corvus cult. Or even where they went for 7000 or so years

>>47602083
This is the inevitable fate of the Blood Angels. We will fall into the vanilla Codex and destroy it by adding a ton of new elite choices making it even more of a cluster fuck but if it happens i wont mind. But really i think warzone baal is due within the next year or 2 since i mean literally all hell is breaking loose with a tendril of hive fleet levithan and an entire army of khorne heading to the planet.

>>47598578
>dream army

Working on it now but I want the entire Ravenwing Company. I won't be happy till I can field more than 100 Ravenwing Space Marines.

>meme army

Corsairs seem pretty cool and I would like to give them a try, as ship heavy as possible. Muh Space Pirates

>>47598217
At least file them, anon.

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>>47602155
well, at least you'll be delicious

>>47602230
>Cherry
>not superior strawberry
What are you a faggot.

>>47602270
>>47602230
Cookies n cream/mint master race reporting in.

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Anyone knows how to fix this?
It was ok before I formated my disk

>>47602467
Well, you see the problem is very simple. For some reason your thing is called Alpha sisters.Obviously there is nothing to show because all of your units are dead. Women cant take geneseeds.

Any tips for a new spess Wolves player

>>47602492
They have male bodies who can take geneseeds, but they identify as females. duh!

>>47602545
You didn't present how they wouldn't die. The cancer would have done them in.

>>47602543
TH/SS TWC, learn what it means.

Two of the Start Collecting Boxes and two Transports will go a long way towards starting an army if you are starting from scratch.

Wolf Lords on TW are pretty great.

>>47602619
The geneseed has a small mutation that prevents the cancer and... stuff.

>>47601071
more ideas because for this, because fuck it.

Speed Cult:
1-3 units of reavers, 1-3 units of hellions
May reroll combat drugs
Hellions get Jink
Reavers can only be snap shot if they turbo-boost.

The Managery
3 beastmaster units. 1 of each type of beast.
As long as within 12" of a beastmaster from this formation, any unit can use his leadership.
...unique rule for each beast type.

Mercenaries
One of those auxaliary options for decurians that just says 'take one unit of x,y,z'. In this case, scourges, incubus, mandrakes.

Another one of those lets you take one of the fliers.

Add in Unique Characters, unique characters and Archon Court are the 'command' choices.
Also Speed Succubus, must take either jetbike or hoverboard.

New artifacts:
The Fuck You Grenades:
Whole unit considered to have assault and defensive grenades, used in the shooting phase they are concussive, blind and pinning.

The Best Drugs: Succubus Only
Gets +1d3 instead of plus 1 for each of her drugs.

The Shroud: Gives the bearer, his unit, and any transport he gets on shrouded.

Jar Of Night: Force the next round to be nightfighting once per game.

Having unlimited money is not the same as unlimited skill, time, and patience, but assuming I had all those things...


Joke Army
Jimmy Buffet/Deadhead Orks
Mariachi Marines
Smurf Marines

Uhn, yeah, you gunna take my geneseed, white boi

>>47602793
>unlimited money is not the same as unlimited skill, time, and patience

But, money does equate to those things. You can hire skill, you don't have to work, and you can buy someone else's patience.

>>47602848
you will find, my friend, that there are some things even a jew won't do.

>>47602492
>>47602545
The name was randomly generated.

>>47602886
It just occurred to me... Blood Ravens are Jews

>>47602936
nah, they negro's

>>47602936
what how?

>>47603024
They are shifty theives, extremely greedy, shrouded in secrecy, and obsessed with ancient writtings

>>47603087
second to last one applies to half the chapters, the last one applies to every ultramarine descendant

Blood Ravens stole my bike!

Cyhper is a bellend.

>>47603149
blood ravens stole my heart

>>47603129
Oh yeah, every hates them and wants them gone.

>>47603152
>Cyhper
>hp

The Fallen did this.

>>47603087
Sounds like gypsies.

File: How The Trazyn Stole Christmas (and How The Blood Ravens Stole Christmas Back).jpg (609KB, 1000x750px) Image search: [Google]

609KB, 1000x750px

>>47603149
>>47603189

>>47603200
>>47603215

>>47603298
thats fuckin' adorable

File: 1463048120818.jpg (255KB, 700x1000px) Image search: [Google]

255KB, 700x1000px

>>47601493
Don't forget the 1,300 conscript blob

>>47601644
They removed the jump pack troops at the same time they released the new BA tactical kit.

anyone want to write a review of my warhammer fan fic?

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11978937/1/Rooks-Gambit-Or-Why-Imperials-Don-t-Use-Xeno-Weaponry

I want to get started on learning the rules of warhammer 40k. I know just about every basic rule of the game but the only thing i'm really confused about is vehicle hull and vehicle damage. I'm thinking about using table top sim to play the game online while I order my army, can you guys help me out?

>>47599715
Blastajet is OK, but all the planes are overpriced. The "mega" is functionally fucking meaningless in the gun title because it's literally just 6" increased range.

The Tellyport Mega-blasta is a great choice because it's an assault gun, so fired twice on Waaagh!.

Either way, I'd recommend using my codex rather than GW's, since theirs is unprofessional, lazy, uninspired, nerf-bat garbage.

Bit ly/Orks7ePDF

>>47603644
Every time I've made an argument for removing the AV system as it's an over complication of the rules I've gotten a reply like "nah man it's good how it is", yet here we are.

>>47603668
Not that guy, but have there been any recent updates to your homebrew dex?

>>47603644
a vehicle that suffers a glancing hit loses a hull point
a vehicle that suffers a penetrating hit loses a hull point, in addition to an additional effect (shaken, stunned, immobilized, weapon destroyed, etc)

hull points were a mistake, though

>>47603716

Sometimes I use this to demonstrate just how bad vehicles have it compared to MCs:

Whenever a Monstrous Creature suffers an unsaved wound, roll on the following chart. Add +1 to the roll if the wound was caused by an AP2 weapon, or +2 to the roll if the wound was caused by an AP1 weapon.

1-3: Concussion - A blow to the creature's head or targeting systems leaves it unable to focus. The Monstrous Creature can only fire Snap Shots until the end of its next turn.

4: Stunning Blow - The wound overwhelms the creature momentarily, leaving it temporarily disabled. The Monstrous Creature can only fire Snap Shots until the end of its next turn. In addition, it cannot move until the end of its next turn. If it is a Flying Monstrous Creature, it may not change flight modes in its next movement phase.

5: Arm Shot - One of the creature's arms or weapon mounts is ripped asunder. One of the Monstrous Creature's weapons (randomly chosen) is destroyed. This can include wargear such as teeth and claws. If the creature has no weapons left, treat this result as Crippled instead.

6. Crippled! - The creature's lower limbs or locomotion systems are utterly destroyed. A Crippled Monstrous Creature cannot move. If it is a Flying Monstrous Creature in Swoop mode, it immediately takes a Grounded test that it automatically fails.

7: Mortal strike! - The blow punches through to a vital organ or system. The wound causes Instant Death.

>>47603716
most people i've seen who are against av are against it because some of their units don't have it and they feel like it's dragging their units down because they dont have it
see: lots of tau players and their big suits

>>47603827
Yeah I'm sure there's a load of tau players grasping for riptides to become walkers.

>>47603847
i cant for the life of me fathom why

>>47603808
Don't forget to add in the fact that MCs have plenty of saving throws available to them. Invulns, FNP, easy to obtain cover.. even an armor save to stop random plinks from autocannons and shit wearing them down.

>>47599881
>>47599912
>>47599924
>>47600126
> Leadership/Mob Rule
New Mob Rule is absolute garbage, & old is superior in every way. HOWEVER: a combo of the gap is something I considered. D3 hits at S3 for failing a LD test would be fine, but a Bosspole in my codex allows a re-roll at the cost of 1 wound. Bosspoles would need to allow re-rolls & bonuses to LD. Nobz should also fucking god damned well have higher LD than Boyz, you drooling mongoloids on the Design Team.

> Initiative
Power of the Waaagh! used to double Ork initiative when you rolled under the mob's number on the charge. Yes, this meant i6 Nobz & i8 Warbosses. My current 'Ere We Go! gives +2, which balances Boyz, Nobz, & Bosses, until you consider...

> Weapons
I added a few weapons, one of which brings back the old Choppa rule. Quite a few at-initiative, but none of them are x2 AP2, & some that use Tellyport & Kustom Mega profiles. Still far fewer than Space Marines or Tyranids.

>>47603874
Yeah man, carnifexes are so OP, tyranids need some serious nerfs.

>>47603886
Try and form coherent thoughts before turning them into words and posting them here.

>>47603886
>carnifexes are mediocre
>therefore all MCs are mediocre
Flawless logic, dude. Those carnifexes need their invulnerable saves and feel no pain taken away.

Because they definitely have them.

>>47603925
>a few MCs are overpowered and underpriced for what they do
>therefore all MCs should get nerfed for it
solid logic my man

>>47600639
Everything, to include descriptions in WD & in fluff & fiction, depicts Orkanauts as super-heavy; yet they can cost almost as much as a Wraithknight without being SH.

Killa Kanz got a40% price increase, dropped from S10 to S7, & received the ONLY vehicle leadership check in the game.

>>47603876
>New Mob Rule is absolute garbage, & old is superior in every way.

Well, no, that's not the case. For small units, new Mob Rule is better because it at least does something. Old Bosspole is superiour to old Bosspole in every way, that needs to be noted.

I'm not saying new Mob Rule is great (it's not) but the old one certainly had issues.

>>47603886

Stop that. Some MCs suck. However it is completely undeniable that those MCs would suck much, much harder if they were vehicles instead.

>>47603940
Killa kanz price didn't change much at all, the base cost in the 4th ed codex didn't include ranged weapons which had to be bought extra.

>>47603748
Nope; v4 is pretty definitive, with the much-needed Decurion & weapon adjustments. Also no Ordnance on Killkannons.

>>47603940
>Killa Kanz got a40% price increase

No, they got a 25% price increase if you just stuck a Big Shoota on them, which virtually no-one did. If you had a Rokkit on them, which was the standard load-out, their points remained the same. Grotzookas however did go up by 10 ppm.

They're still godawful but there's no need to embellish the truth to get that across.

>>47603954
I'd still not rather deal with T6 3W 3+ rhinos thank you very much.

>>47604007

And I'd rather not have my Orkanaut auto-deleted on Turn 1 when 5 chucklefucks with meltas land next to it and squeeze the triggers.

I guess we'll never all be happy.

>>47601737
You can still do it by taking Korvydae from IA 8

>>47604026
That's a problem with drop pods, not the AV system.

>>47603716
The problem with AV probably stems from the fact that almost everyone has high Strength low AP weapons on wholesale

>>47604046

Oh sorry, how about Grav from across the field instead? Or Haywire? Or how about the fact that a single Lascannon can take out any non-superheavy vehicle in the game with one lucky shot, but the same weapon can never do the same to an MC? How about the fact that weapons with Instant Death are incredibly rare, and almost never ranged, but every single high strength low AP weapon in the game has Instant Death vs vehicles?

But no, the issue is Drop Pods. Right.

>>47604108
Av is shit, and desu the game might actually play a little better with everything simplified to toughness/wounds/armor sv

It's worked for artillery emplacements for a while, no reason it can't work for the rest

>>47604108
the issue is the immediate access every high tier army has to cheap bullshit ways to get S8+ AP2- bullshit
and comparing AV to MC isn't helping you get your point across, it just makes you look like a salty asshole because you don't have as many MCs as everyone else

>>47601459
Raven Guard can take assault squads as troops if you bring Korvydae.

>>47604080
That's not an issue only for AV, it just effects AV more than it does anything else thanks to the damage table.

I simply see it as an unnecessary system to learn when the wounding system exists and any AV stats can be easily translated over to it. The new container rules are a start, they just need to errata USRs that deal with wounding like fleshbane and poison to not work on vehicle types.

>>47604154
The damage table exists because vehicles were much harder to damage than things with toughness. A rhino would be toughness 7 when translated, which is pretty ridiculous for its cost.

>>47603716
thats sort of an extreme change.

If you wanted to get rid of AV, you'd have to do it in the context of a total revision of the rules, and I don't think anybody is that committed to reinventing the game in its entirety.

Many small changes are likely to go over better than a total overhaul to the games fundamental mechanics.

>>47604130

I'd MUCH rather see vehicles use toughness/saves.

It would allow for a lot more granularity with vehicles. So a high strength, crap AP weapon would tear apart ork vehicles with their terrible armour values but bounce off a Repressor with it's excellent armour.

Then the asshole necrons turn up with a low toughness but a 2++ save due to the weirdass fields (The ones that give AV 14 until you lose your first hull point)

>>47603940
i fixed killa kans.

I really wasn't sure what to make of the orkanauts and morkanauts. The models seemed fairly orky, but their stats were all over the place. It was a pain constantly trying to reference all the new weaponry and equipment they had, so i decided not to mess with them.

I might get to that tomorrow, or tonight if i have time.

>>47604179
Why is that ridiculous? Everyone has high strength, low ap shots to send their way, right?

>>47604196
The game does need a rules overhaul though, right now it's got 4 previous editions bogging it down and all they're doing is sticking more on top of it with the likes of death from the skies.

is the Strike Force Command from Gladius its own formation? Could I take it on its own? I can find everything else from Gladius in formation datasheets

Why can't they just make the codex marines be as unique and variant as the 30k Legions?
I mean, the rules are already there, why not just port them over?

>>47604244
>Everyone
nice meme

>>47604269
Haha sick not following the reply chain meme!

>>47604244
that may be true, but thats a major commitment, and I'm not sure anyone at GW is really invested in that idea, much less fans such as ourselves.

>>47604244
>The game does need a rules overhaul though, right now it's got 4 previous editions bogging it down and all they're doing is sticking more on top of it with the likes of death from the skies.

I'm honestly at the point where I'd welcome Age of the Emperor. Maybe that's just because I play Orks and I'm sick of being defecated upon for 3 straight editions but frankly the game is starting to look a hell of a lot like 8th ed Fantasy, and we all know where that ended up.

>>47604293
haha sick everyone is the same person meme
AV is fine where it's at, high tier armies need to have their access to high strength low ap shots peeled back a bit

>>47604309
>>47604314
Honestly if 40k got a bit of the AoS treatment in way of free online pdfs of the rules and the keywords system AoS has it would probably help out the game a lot.

Putting every faction on a level playing field and dropping rule bloat can only help with introducing new players to the game and keeping up the interest amongst the disillusioned players of the factions that aren't doing too great.

>>47599912
>Orks gotta have low BS though! It's iconic!
BS 5 plasmacannon-handgun Nazdreg says otherwise.

>>47601668
ANON

ANON I FIGURED IT OUT

White Scars Tactics

RECLUSIAM COMMAND SQUAD - 465

Chaplain - 140
Bike
THE GLAIVE OF VENGEANCE

Command Squad - 250
Power Lances
Storm Shields
Bikes

Razorback - 75
Lasplas

RECLUSIAM COMMAND SQUAD - 465

Chaplain -140
Bike
The Hunter's Eye
Combi-grav

Command Squad - 250
Grav guns
Storm Shields
Bikes

Razorback - 75
Lasplas

Take these two detachments with whatever else you want. Here's what u gon do: take the razorbacks and either use them as a distraction or shoot stuff from corners. Take your gravgun bikes and go blast some fools with IGNORES COVER, then charge, HoW, and H&R.

Go against bad armor saves with the lances, go against good armor with the gravguns.

You get really good sweeps, you get really good Run moves for your lances, you can help out shootier bits of the army that get trapped in melee.

>>47604401

>Orks have to double their initiative when charging! It's iconic!

>Ork Choppas have to reduce your armour save to 4+! It's iconic!

>Looted Vehicles have to use the stats from their parent codex! It's iconic!

We lost so much iconic stuff that changing up BS2 would hardly be a big deal. There's already Dakkajets with BS3.

>>47604451
I have no idea what point you are trying to argue, but it's not going very well either way.

>>47604401
I saw a pretty damn good house rule a while back: Orks are BS2, but never snap-shoot, because they weren't ever really aiming in the first place.

If it didn't automatically make Orks the best anti-air army in existence by way of Lootas, I would have included it in my codex.

>>47604486

What? I'm saying that "It's iconic!" is hardly an argument when discussing changing an aspect of Orks when we've lost so much equally iconic stuff over the years.

>>47604505
I use a hit penalty based cover system and orks work well in that as they don't care nearly as much.

>>47604507
This, especially given how iconic some rules are in comparison to others. Orks were supposed to have Power of the Waaagh! because it worked with their stat line, but just taking a vehicle from another codex I feel is kinda over complicated & lame. Looted Wagon profile lets people run whatever they want rather than having to stick to just the kit they mainly used for the bash.

>>47604532
so Odin, do any of the changes in your dex require any sort of kit bashing or model changes?

File: kustom stompa.jpg (120KB, 642x867px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 642x867px

>>47604532
>Looted Wagon profile lets people run whatever they want rather than having to stick to just the kit they mainly used for the bash.

To a certain extent. If we can't use the parent codex then I'd much rather see something like this for Looted Wagons, allowing extreme customization. Basically 30 points for a standard 10/10/10 3 hp chassis that you then build off of.

>>47604532
also, do you have any new or custom units, gear, or special rules?

Cause I made it point to avoid making anything "new", everything I wrote was just a revision of the rules.

>>47604618
Yes

>>47604618
You tried to fix severed limbs by applying band-aids.

>>47598786
>3rd edition did a bit of both, but the latter is what caused the scale shift.
You say that as though people experimented to fi D the best points level. Most places in the UK just continued playing the same points they'd played before (1500 or 2000).

>>47604532
okay, well, according to your codex, it seems we have very similar ideas.

>boys may replace their bolt pistol with shoota's for 1ppm
why not just let them replace their bolt pistol or choppa with a shoota for free? Thats how the marines do it.

>1ppm point for "dead choppy".
Why not give it to them for free? Marines used to get it for free.

>Big Choppa gets rending
Sure you wouldn't prefer shred instead?

1) Why are you using a tripcode?

2) Why not use the Space Marine codex to represent your orks? There is very little that Orks can do that space marines can't do better.

>>47604760
I notice a lot of you're entries have infantry taking burna's instead of skorcha's. Is there something wrong with skorcha's?

>giving commandos stealth
noice

>giving burna's heavy armor
would make more sense on tankbusta's, but then giving them infiltrate wouldn't make sense

>>47604880
I'm responding in kind, so Odin doesn't get my posts confused with other peoples suggestions.

Not sure I understand you're second inquiry.

>>47604890
Skorchas are heavy flamers.

>>47604880
1) Who are you talking to?

2) Why shitpost?

>>47604890
>I notice a lot of you're entries have infantry taking burna's instead of skorcha's. Is there something wrong with skorcha's?

Skorchas are heavy flamers. Burnas are flamers.

>giving commandos stealth

Kommandos have Stealth already

>>47604913
oh, i got it backwards. nm