/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Whoops my timing
Did the pack make any mention of humans/hunters in werewolf packs?

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What are the main activities in Beast: The Primordial other than:

"Enacting your character's revenge fantasies" (which are also the player's)
"Being an otherkin"
"Doing whatever you want, because you have no pesky morality mechanic"
and
"Beating up superpowered strawmen 'Heroes'"

?

>>47531907
>What are your biggest inspirations for your games?
Literally anything.
Anime I haven't even watched.
Video games I've barely played
Movies I can't remember
Songs with intentionally recontextualized lyrics
Television shows I've seen the trailer of.

Earlier I was thinking how Agent 47 is a Demon (perhaps with an Exploit that lets him done temporary Covers), and the ICA is an Agency. I'm also trying to decide whether an Assassin's Creed style Conspiracy that delves into genetic memory through the Temenos to gain Endowments or a Compact based on people who where the "final girl" of a Slasher attack is more fitting to submit to Monica.

>>47532008
Well, the game is meant to be a "crossover" game, so add "leaching on other gamelines without adding more to the mix. After all, who the hell would face Heroes besides Beasts?"

>>47532060
>After all, who the hell would face Heroes besides Beasts?
Mages might mistake them for individuals influenced or claimed by Goetia.
Their powers ARE Astral in origin.

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>>47532060

Oh, yes, absolutely this.

Beast makes no sense at all to anyone who is not already familiar with the other game lines.

In fact, it could be said that Beast is the most expensive (in terms of real-world money) splat to play, because to make the most of it, you need to buy into the other game lines. Unless you pirate.

>>47532008
You asked this same question the other day.

You're not enacting revenge fantasies any more than any other supernatural; Werewolf and Vampire isn't a revenge fantasy when they Hunt or feed on humans.

You're not an Otherkin any more than any other gameline.

Heroes aren't even strawmen, you don't know what word means.

You technically can do whatever you want in any of the other games, because the morality mechanic never actually prevents you from doing anything, but we already argued with people misunderstanding how morality works last thread and I'd rather we don't repeat it.

But to answer your actual question while ignoring the loaded parts of the question: No, there's not much else to do. It's essentially Mage without the encouragement. There are no Primordial Beats for going to investigate spooky occurrences, and there is no Monster Aspiration for being a particular type of bridge troll. You're encouraged to go out and meet new people and bug them and maybe even lick them only because it's something interesting to do, and because you can watch them feed and do a lot less work yourself.

Beyond that you build your secret base and occasionally spook someone, which is honestly a far too involved mechanic to the point that it gets in the way of anything else, despite the fact that you rarely ever actually need to do it.

>>47532060
>>47532078
Marian literally hates all of the supernatural with a passion and her origin story is seeing her grandson's vampire girlfriend.

>>47532102
Not really. Beast doesn't require you to know anything other than what it gives you. It *encourages* you to go out and get other stuff, but so does Hunter, and even Mage. Beast just doesn't do it as well because they felt that crossover was core to it.
(It shouldn't be).

I think it was Wyrdhamster on the OPP forums who has some dynamite suggestions for making Beast more playable, and it's almost entirely based around creating social groups with goals to play off of one another

>>47532219
Edward/Drawde/Aspel/Rory please stop defending Beast.

>>47531948
Humans, yes, there's a lot of information. Hunters specifically, no. It's Humans, Wolf-Blooded, Werewolves, Animals, Spirits and Other Supernaturals.

Hunters would fall under Human.

>>47532078
Good point, Mages after all have the best crossover capability of all of the game lines besides maybe Hunter (who are EVERY OTHER SPLAT CAN BE THE ENEMY!)

Having Mystery as a theme is really helpful for discovery of other things.

>>47532296
It offers no better crossover capability than "the hunt" as a theme.

>>47532239
/tg/ will never understand that "this thing is not the worst ever" is not exactly a defense.

>>47532296
Hunter is literally whatever you want, and since the core 2e book is basically Hunter already with the inclusion of Dread Powers for monster building, Hunter 2e is already going to be better from that.

>>47532325
Not true! Hunter is essentially about occultism and exploring the supernatural. Often due to the nature of Hunter, this is on hostile terms, but not always.

>>47532347

You're defending the game, just half-heartedly. Yes, it's not objectively the worst game ever made, and some people exaggerate some details. It's still a bad game, and people can rightfully be miffed that it's a misstep in an otherwise solid set of gamelines.

When the solution to making Beast more playable is "add in something that should be in CofD games in the first place," something is very wrong. When a WoD/CofD fan podcast spends nearly two hours going over the game and one of the hosts straight up says "Do Not Buy Beast" at the end of it, something way out of character for said podcast, something is very, very wrong.

>>47532008

Is that croc alright

>>47532499
>When a WoD/CofD fan podcast spends nearly two hours going over the game and one of the hosts straight up says "Do Not Buy Beast" at the end of it, something way out of character for said podcast, something is very, very wrong.

Does anyone have a transcript of this?

>>47532508
He's married.

>>47532499
Don't buy it for the problems it has, not the ones it doesn't. Honestly, I think that Darker Days spending an episode ragging on Beast is beating a dead horse and probably just repeating the same kind of stupid shit I keep seeing in these threads posted by people who haven't even glanced over the book. Again: Complain about the problems it actually has. I can do that just fine. I literally did that in the post you linked to.

Also, adding in more lines won't make Beast playable. Although a Hunter style focus on personalized monster creation for the STs probably would, although it still suffers a worse version of the same problem that plagues Geist in that you have basically zero incentive to do anything but sit around and abuse your super powers for your own amusement and personal gain.
Although at least Geist explicitly made that a character type.

>>47532584
It depends on the attainment, but most of them are pretty obvious. "Spend a mana, do a thing"

>>47532347
>Not true! Hunter is essentially about occultism and exploring the supernatural. Often due to the nature of Hunter, this is on hostile terms, but not always.
I was referring to werewolf, which has just as much crossover potential as mage, since any supernatural game (and even mortals or hunters) can be prey.

>>47532737
You never mentioned that you were talking about Werewolf.
Also, that's true, but Werewolf doesn't *explicitly* encourage you to poke your nose in supernatural occurrences outside of your purview by giving you Experience Points just for that.

>>47532793
>You never mentioned that you were talking about Werewolf.
You jump to conclusions.
You get experience for performing the sacred hunt, which can be called on anything and is a required aspect of the game.

>>47532836
That's not jumping to conclusions. The person you were quoting (>>47532296) was talking about Mage and Hunter. Also, yes, the Sacred Hunt can be called on anything. But in the corebook the only one that's useful for most crossover is the Iron Masters. Even then, "you can kill anything" isn't really crossover any more than Vampires feeding on anything

>>47533044
Vampires can't feed on anything, they need a merit for that.
"You can hunt anything" is as much of a crossover theme as "You can investigate anything."

I'm going to guess you're aspel now, based on your shitty doublespeak and refusal to acknowledge you were wrong so much.

>>47532637

I assure you it's not, since they read the book. You seem to think people aren't reading the book when the actual issue is that you're taking the book directly at face value instead of giving the setting and its demands any deeper thought. People exaggerate, but there are deeper problems with its execution than "there is nothing much to do."

Did the shitposting about temporal sympathy stop?

>>47533223
Yes, because everyone has accepted that Temporal Sympathy is broken as fuck.

>>47533120
Yes, but Mages are actually rewarded for investigating new things. Werewolves aren't. It's not doublespeak.

>>47533135
I seem to think that people who say things the book explicitly disagrees with haven't read it, yes, or at the very least can't read good. The game has real problems. "It's clearly for sociopaths who want to violently murder their bullies and anyone who plays it is dangerous" is not one of them, yet that's a sentiment I've seen thrown around.

>>47533238
Don't
Just don't

>>47533238
Why does it even matter? We knew things were going to be busted going in it, that is just the nature of the game. I know there was talk about everything being reevaluated, powers and all that being toned down a bit for 2e, but when there are abilities that can majorly alter the story, and fluff that reinforces it, it seems rather difficult to actually reign things in.

Just enjoy it for what it is, and do what mages do: make friends with mages that can both unfuck you if you get screwed and fuck the guy who fucked you.

>>47533238
>>47533223
The real problem is that some anons are attempting to apply their high-school level understanding of physics to a concept that isn't beholden to that rather than just reading the rules tightly.

Also,
>broken as fuck
is a bit rich, coming from a system that already has significant skewed balance issues baked into the base mechanics (see: the kindergarteners on a bus vs. a (1e) werewolf or the persistently high percentage of failure for relatively easy tasks compared to increasing skill level)

>>47534222
Don't forget the CofD core rules making it trivial to gain Condition after Condition after Condition by gaining a Condition that gives exceptional successes on three successes... which makes it easier to make more Conditions.

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>>47533238
>>47534049
>>47534222

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in mage asscencion can you fill your entire quintessence/paradox wheel with quintessence if you just have enough time with a node, and Prime 1? the quintessence absorption rules seem really vague.

>>47534290
>12nd

>>47534289
You can only get a Beat once a scene regardless, and you only roll when there's a reasonable degree of risk.

>>47534222
>(see: the kindergarteners on a bus vs. a (1e) werewolf or the persistently high percentage of failure for relatively easy tasks compared to increasing skill level)
Solving these is actually baked into the system, but people are stupid and ignore that. Kindergarteners would use the Swarm rules--and even have rules in Innocents that amount to "you always lose against adults, fuck you"--and mundane average tasks that you can reasonably complete aren't even rolled and generally have bonuses.
"The system doesn't cover this thing that it shouldn't need to cover!" is not really a valid complaint. It's not like a D20 rat, which *is* a reasonable occurrence.

>>47534399
>You can only get a Beat once a scene regardless, and you only roll when there's a reasonable degree of risk.

You're still sitting on a big fat stack of Conditions and gaining exceptional successes like crazy.

>>47534419
It's like you barely read the system and you know that in a white room it's technically possible so that means that it's always going to happen.

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>>47534419
You only gain arcane beats from negative conditions, barring an exceptional success on the casting roll

>>47534537
He meant the core rules, using Inspiring. And also cheesing to get Exceptionals on three with spellcrafting as well.
It's still once a scene and still only when it's a meaningful roll, though.

>>47534469
>>47534537
>>47534640
You gain a Beat for resolving a Condition only once per scene, but that's still not stopping you from generating Conditions all the time.

>>47534753
Have you ever actually played an RPG?

>>47534873
Most RPGs don't let you create chains of critical successes again and again.

Maybe, like, Fate Core.

>>47534916
I didn't ask if you've read RPG books. I asked if you've actually /played/ them.

>>47534937
Yep.

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My next game is going to be a Hunter chronicle focused on a bunch of teenagers at a wealthy boarding school.

Give me your best ideas, /wodg/.

>>47531907
>What are your biggest inspirations for your games?

Sad to say, probably Stephen King.

>>47531907
>What are your biggest inspirations for your games?
Sci Fi and Modern Fantasy TV series
Sanctuary is VERY Mysterium

>>47535237

The main protagonist is a mage and all the other players are part of his supernatural harem

>>47535237
I love high school Hunter. Why a wealthy boarding school, though?
Read Hack/Slash. Cassie's mom works.
Also maybe some scarecrows attack. Or someone is poisoning the French fries to make the children smarter so they can solve a problem.
Their teacher is an alien.
Female students are going missing, and the popular girl is getting *super* pretty lately...

>>47531907
>What are your biggest inspirations for your games?
Some other gothicpunk or modern fantasy that fits the ideal of what I'm looking for. The film Constantine is one of the best movies that could work for Hunter, for example. Hellboy's a fun one. The Underworld franchise. I like a lot of that supernatural stuff. That recent-ish Wolfman film with Benicio Del Toro was really good.

Then there are other angles. Other /tg/ stuff, like Delta Green. Even some of the supernatural aspects from things like Shadowrun. Dresden Files for books. Unfortunately there's not a lot of good World of Darkness-type stuff in books. Anyone have any good suggestions?

Honestly, I like a lot of the stuff they added. Most of my games (or ideas for games) include almost all of the books on at least some level. The only stuff I don't add is Mummy and Beast (though I might change my mind on the latter depending on how it does, I'm not familiar with it), and sometimes Demon. I was raised Catholic and I like to add some actual religious stuff to my game, and the God-Machine is just a bit too techno-punky-eldritch-horror-playing-God for my taste. A bit too out there compared to the rest of the World.

I've recently been trying to find a way where the God-Machine PLAYS at being God while the actual big man upstairs is like "meh, It's a pretender, but I'm not allowed to really interfere directly. And its 'angels,' are about as strong as my own, unfortunately." But that feels a bit strange to me, to be honest. Does anyone have any good suggestions on how to handle that?

>>47531907
>What are your biggest inspirations for your games?

Edgar Allen Poe. The whole...I don't really go in for the "gothicness" so much but I think the Fall of the House of Usher & his poem the Conqueror Worm have really left a mark on how I approach horror as a genre. Also I literally named a spirit "Masque of the Red Death" lol.

Beyond that, probably and unfortunately a little bit of Lovecraft & Cthulhu mythos stuff, the Music of Erich Zann & the hounds of tindalos by that not-lovecraft guy.

Aside from all the book malarkey I really like david cronenberg movies, the radio drama of pontypool which i liked a little more than the film, the film Anti-Christ, some other stuff. I tend towards either quieter stuff that's more about figuring out what the hell is going wrong with "my friends/my family/my world/my body," i guess more psychological-type deals.

And generally I incorporate a lot of other non-horror stuff that I like & read into my games.

>>47535568
I mean, you could run with something akin to certain interpretations of Mage lore.

IE the true god/s control the supernal symbols that effectively constitute the 'starting point' of reality.

The God Machine meanwhile, is an inevitability because you basically can't tweak the content of the universe enough that it never comes into existence without preventing material reality from existing entirely which would defeat the point.

And in turn, manifesting an Ochemata strong enough to overcome the strongest the God Machine has (and/or will eventually create and send back in time), would destroy material reality.

The God Machine meanwhile, if it ever encroaches outside the lesser realities it was born in, lacks its "hostage" that is the entirety of creation, and immediately gets swatted.

This would also go a long way to explaining why the God Machine goes to such exorbitant lengths to construct concealment infrastructure when mankind couldn't really defeat it even if they tried. It isn't trying to hide from man, its trying to hide from the man on the other end of the microscope looking down at man.

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>>47535720
I like this.

>>47531907
i dont know. Big worlds full of odd things that dont always make sense. Alot of them are bad and evil, some of them aren't. The only thing I really draw from a touch is john constantine

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Would this apply to Chaos Mastery

>>47535568
>>47535720
The God-Machine is the Demiurge in classic Gnosticism. God is either rendered impotent (Sophia emanating alone and creating the Ialdabaoth, or getting beaten as in Dogma) or simply can't or won't interfere with the world. Meanwhile it's powerless as the Demiurge controls and manipulates the world.

Also, while I love the Mage approach, there's also Promethean (or a mix of the two): God-as-creator is the Principle, and all it can do is create Souls and send it's Qashmallim out to do it's bidding, even though it's equally as insane and broken as the God-Machine. I actually like them to be two halves of the same whole. The Principle is the core of it, and essentially operating broken, while the God-Machine is the rest of the system and functioning mindlessly, a hive with no queen. The Principle gets all the truly high level Supernal power, but is completely unable to do anything drastic because the God-Machine got all of the power in the Material.

You can of course also blame this on one of the many fuck ups. Take your pick of Mages, Mummies, or Werewolves.

>>47535788
Hopefully, but we can't be sure.

>>47535839
>Take your pick of Mages, Mummies, or Werewolves.

I choose all three.

>>47531907
>What are your biggest inspirations for your games?
I take local news and imagine what if supernatural thing actually cause that. I build short story around it and let players investigate it.

>>47535890
Banging on the machine doesn't fix it!

>>47536002
I just like the idea that three colossal fuckups all happened at pretty much the same time solely by chance, no matter how much each individual group wants to say, "No, it is we who ruined the world, making us the most important!"

Like, c'mon, if you didn't do it, some other bunch of fuckos would.

>>47536017
I prefer everyone being responsible.
Mages fucked up and left everyone in a secondary reality.
Then Mummies fucked up and broke Time.
Then Werewolves fucked up and broke the Dimensions.

>>47536017
To be fair, I have no idea what Mummies did, just that their shit isn't around anymore. Mages technically ruined shit first, according to Dark Eras. Then the werewolves were like "dad is getting pretty old, you know what we should do to fix that? WE SHOULD KILL HIM". Mummies were actually last.
Whatever happened with the God-Machine itself was maybe first, maybe not.

>>47536034
Time wise I think werewolf happened first.

>>47536038
>Whatever happened with the God-Machine itself was maybe first

Probably. Everything else is just an echo of that.

>>47536043
NO, Stone Age Dark Eras has Mages existing before the Gauntlet went up.

>>47536052
Sorry sorry ment to say werewolves happened before mummies. My phone messed up.

>>47536043
What?
No.
The world is already Fallen in Neolithic Mage, but Urfarah and the First Pack are still running around. There's also hints and implications of the Nameless Empire to the south. We're not yet to the First Sothic Turn.

>>47535788
Not a hex.

>>47536082
Yes it is. Stop trying to game the system

>>47536119
But... It's not. That's not a gaming thing. Hexes are different spells. That's like saying any negative Fate spell is a hex. It would only apply to the tilts.

>>47536119
Hex effects explicitly state so, jackass. Stop accusing people who read the rules as gaming the system.

>>47536034
These three are like the Three Stooges of reality.

>>47535788
How are this and Chaos Mastery related?

>>47536178
Every time someone reads the rules and another dude yells about "s-stop gaming the system!" it's pretty much always Edward/Drawde/Aspel/Rory.

>>47536149
Hexes are spells that cause tilts or reduce dice pools.
Chaos Mastery's effects are:
>Cause a Tilt
>Cause a Tilt
>Cause a Tilt
>Reduce Actions
>Deal Damage

You know what how about these questions get asked in FAQ threads on the OPP forums and these threads just stick to stuff like "How can I use the God-Machine and God in my game?" or "what is your inspiration?" Those questions are a lot more interesting than "by doing things the game doesn't intend me to do I can break the game!"

You want to know the answer to any and all of those questions? "Only if your ST lets you".

>>47536428
Chaos mastery
>removes armor
>inflicts a condition
>inflicts a condition
>Changes a die
>Deals Damage
NOT A SINGLE ONE IS IN HEX.

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>>47536428
Specifically mentions hex.

>>47536428
>Every time someone reads the rules and another dude yells about "s-stop gaming the system!" it's pretty much always Edward/Drawde/Aspel/Rory.

Why do you hate it when people scrutinize the rules?

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>>47536523
ALSO specifically mentions hex.

>>47531476
Except for the fact that highest Arcanum included in the spell is independent of the particular mage. If the spell has compelling elements of Fate and ruling of Mind, it's highest Arcanum is always Mind. It doesn't matter that mage has 3 dots in Mind and 5 in Fate, it's still Gnosis+Mind.

>>47533434
>"It's clearly for sociopaths who want to violently murder their bullies and anyone who plays it is dangerous" is not one of them, yet that's a sentiment I've seen thrown around.
No one here said that. The teaching the lessons angle is completely retarded. If the game was just about playing bad guys, it would be OK, but writers couldn't stand that. They hastily tried to invent reasons why beasts are actually nice people and failed spectacularly.

>>47536487
>"Hexes inflict Conditions"
>Spell inflicts conditions
>Not a hex
It also specifically says it reduces the die.

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>>47536535
ALSO SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS HEX.
>>47536532
No, he just makes taking people presumptuous, incorrect readings of the rules.

>>47536542
That's the highest PRACTICE. BUT ARCANUM.
>>47536547
HEXES. INFLICT. TILTS.

>>47536547
Do you know what it didn't say? Impose a die penalty equal to potency.

>>47536548
>No, he just makes taking people presumptuous, incorrect readings of the rules.
Even if I'm wrong about this, I've repeatedly corrected people and been able to cite chapter and verse. I feel like I've probably corrected you and you're salty about it.

Stop trying to turn Chaos Mastery into the next Temporal Summoning. I don't care if it's crazy broken. Welcome to wizards.

>>47536580
Actually, I usually agree with you! But the fact is that you are completely off base right now.

>>47531907
>What are your biggest inspirations for your games?
My own imagination mainly.

>>47536542
>Except for the fact that highest Arcanum included in the spell is independent of the particular mage. If the spell has compelling elements of Fate and ruling of Mind, it's highest Arcanum is always Mind. It doesn't matter that mage has 3 dots in Mind and 5 in Fate, it's still Gnosis+Mind.

Literally wrong.

The rules passage says HIGHEST ARCANUM, not highest practice.

>>47536580
>I've repeatedly corrected people and been able to cite chapter and verse

And you're normally wrong each time.

>>47536597
Look, I honestly don't give a shit at this point. I'm sick and tired of all day seeing people go "well I can totally spam this and kill everyone in the room!"
It's times like this (and "I can spam so that I can get a billion Beats!") that I remember that /tg/ plays less than I do. And oh, look, now we're back to arguing about whether you can add Fate 5 to your Craftsman's Eye and roll that instead of your paltry Matter 1.

>>47536664
Didn't you drag it back?

>>47536664
I'm the one arguing about hexes, and I play. A lot actually. I've got a session tomorrow. I'm just pointing out that chaos mastery isn't a hex. Because it's not.

>>47536664
Nobody said you could get a ton of Beats in a single scene, fuckface.

Someone said you could get a ton of CONDITIONS in a single scene.

>>47536664
But you CAN use Chaos Mastery to blow the fuck out of everyone in a room as written.

And you CAN add Fate to Craftsman's Eye to use your Fate for the dice pool instead of Matter. That's literally what's written in the book.

>>47535237
Well there are some classics like the vampire staked under the school and werewolves in the forests.

That said you should totally include that one frat that is ran by pentex

>>47535237
One teacher's a privateer.

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>>47534325
Copied from the M20 description of Prime 1 (for what it's worth, personally I like it for the most part):

"A beginning study of Prime allows the mage to perceive and channel Quintessence from Nodes, Tass, Wonders, and magickal
Effects. She may spot energetic ebbs and flows, can sense and at least try to read Resonance and Synergy signatures, and could
also absorb Quintessence into her personal Pattern. Mages without at least one dot in Prime cannot absorb Quintessence
beyond their Avatar Background rating. A Prime-skilled mage, however, may do so.

When infusing her Quintessence into an object, that mage may also consecrate the object with her personal energy. When she shapeshifts, steps sideways, or otherwise alters her
Pattern’s metaphysical nature, that consecrated object will then change with her. In the process, it also picks up her personal Resonance… which, because it both identifies her and becomes essentially connected to her, is not always a good thing."

So how I interpret that as meaning that if you only have prime one, you can't channel more quintessence into yourself than your avatar rating. The exception to that would be if you're a mage whose primary sphere is prime (like if you are celestial chorus, syndicate, some other group, or have the sphere affinity (prime) merit. Then in theory, you should be able to store up to the maximum quintessence of 10. But I'm pretty sure that unless you start storing quintessence in something like an amulet, or staff, or trinary computer rig, or whatever your mage believes they can store quintessence in, then you can't go above 10.

>inb4 90s anime and the sopranos

How dare you, sir. I'm only inspired by the finest 80s anime and Hill Street Blues.

>>47536560
>HEXES. INFLICT. TILTS.
Hexes can inflict tilts. Not everything that inflicts tilts is a hex.

>>47534290
If it really is such a problem, just filter the comment chain using whatever 4chan extension of your choice. If people want to talk about it, they will, and there is absolutely no reason to shitpost in an attempt to stifle discussion.

>>47537239
>Mages without AT LEAST one dot in Prime cannot absorb Quintessence beyond their Avatar Background rating. A Prime-skilled mage, however, may do so.

>>47538297
accidentally posted before I could finish typing.
It says at least one dot, so I'm pretty sure one dot is all it takes to absorb all of the quintessence

>>47535839
>You can of course also blame this on one of the many fuck ups. Take your pick of Mages, Mummies, or Werewolves.

Personally, I'd say to blame it on Mages. Half of it was in the Supernal when Atlantis happened, and it got torn in half, with the part in the Material becoming the God-Machine, and the part in the Supernal Aether becoming the Principle. ;)

>>47538421

Personally, I blame the Soviets.

>>47531907
>What are your biggest inspirations for your games?
Mostly TV shows
I ran a Demon game for a while, inspired largely by Person of Interest and Dollhouse. If I'd known about it before I started running it, I'd have also drawn heavily on Utopia, because holy shit it's a good show.

Currently running a Mage game, inspired largely by Being Human(the UK version), because it's got about the same scope, The Magicians, and Constantine
And some hints of Utopia, because it's still fresh on my mind, but more related to the Mystery aspects of it than the Espionage aspects

>>47535839
>>47538421

While my interpretation of things is pretty similar to this, I don't like the idea that the Principle is at all related to the Supernal Aether. If the Principle was a Supernal Being, then Mages would know the moment they saw a Qashmallim, and Pyros would be something that they could easily effect with magic.

I prefer the interpretation that the Principle emanates from the Empyrean, a hypothetical realm "above" the Supernal akin to the gnostic Godhead, with the Supernal serving the role of the Sephirot.

>>47538770

Are there any legal or less-shady places I can watch Utopia if I don't live in Bongland? That premise sounds mighty tasty. DVD/BR releases are fine too.

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>>47535400
>I love high school Hunter. Why a wealthy boarding school, though?
Partly, it was just the setting my players wanted to play. I came up with a couple chronicle pitches based on their suggestions, and hunters at an elite private school is the one that appeal to all of them.

I think it could be a very good setting, though. Lots of teenagers with stunted emotional lives packed together under one roof in their own bizarre little high-pressure world. It's a great recipe for drama even before you throw in supernatural shenanigans.

>Read Hack/Slash.
I'll check it out, though honestly the version of Hunter I'm going for it less "let's kill all the monsters" and more "there's some weird supernatural stuff entangled in the lives of the people we care about, and we're probably the only ones who can deal with it, but can we do that without causing more problems in the process?"

>>47536811
>you should totally include that one frat that is ran by pentex
I didn't know that was a thing. That's cute. I'm running nWoD/CofD Hunter, though.

>>47536817
>One teacher's a privateer.
Neat idea, but my last experience running Changeling wasn't very promising. I'm keeping my hands off of Changeling-related stuff until I'm ready to take another crack at running the game.

>>47538770
>>47539196
Googling Utopia I found a short lived American show and a British show. Am I to assume we're talking Brit?

>>47539613
Yeah, the British one
>>47539196
http://watchseries.cr/series/utopia/
inb4 me linking this somehow leads to the website being taken down

>>47532566

No transcript, that would take ages but the podcast can be found here:
http://podcast.darker-days.org/e/darker-days-radio-episode-72/

Listen to tihs instead of Aspel's inane ranting.

>>47539968
Aspel?

And transcripts for our podcast... yeah no. That would be far too much work. If we were paid for it then sure. But DDR has been and will always be free and non-profit.

>>47540008
Aspel's a longtime poster to these threads, prone to getting into arguments with other posters. Certain anons are also prone to pushing his buttons trying to provoke his arguments.

>>47540030
>Aspel's
Glorious.

Well I hope people have enjoyed the Beast review. Even if it means fans of the game may have new ideas to address parts they were less than keen on.

And it is a rare thing for us to say no, don't buy X game. (actually I have done that before - Golem Arcana). We do try to find some positive angle to a book. But Beast is right up there with WoD Gypsies. Freak Legion gets a semi pass as it is a Black Dog game.

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>>47539368
You could use this plot hook from immortals. Its for the Body Thieves immortals and is set in a prestigious school.

>>47540079

I look forward to Freak Legion But Good, otherwise known as Deviant: the ???

Anyone else think the Abyss is necessary for reality? It contains all the symbols that the supernal lacks, thus helping define existence by defining what does not exist and what could exist. The problem is that Mages fucked everything in and now the Abyss is the proverbial landfill garbage juice seeping into the aquifer.

>>47540079
>>47540008

Currently listening to it, I'm enjoying this very much.

I'm going to go looking if you guys did one on Mummt: The Curse too. Either way, Your book of the Deceived one is next up after this.

Really like it.

>>47540354

I'm just at the part where you talk about Melanie in the Rpg.net thread. My favourite part of Beast and its 'fans' and why I'll never play with them.

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>>47540300
>Being this Scelesti


On an unrelated note, I'm surprised Scarfolk has never been mentioned in these threads
It feels very CofD/WoD to me

>>47540093
Neat. Thanks for sharing that.

>>47540419
Hey, I'm not saying you should summon abyssal creatures, I'm just saying that it would make sense that when a new concept comes into existence it probably already exists in the Abyss, and it would make sense that if this was true that it appears in the Supernal by the abyssal symbol being moved. Things from the Abyss are bad for reality because they haven't been slotted in correctly.

>>47540435
Always glad to help.

>>47540419

A big reason is that Scarfolk is one of those things where it's not new enough for everyone to talk about, but not old enough where it's a household name or a buzzed about classic. I adore the Scarfolk style of propaganda, though.

>>47540300
Yeah.
If you just have supernal you just have order and exarchs
the abyss offers freedom, literally (the supernal is divine/god, the abyssal shard inside everyone allows for their free will, you can do anything, influenced by supernal but not leashed by it)

>>47541109

Except for the part where the Supernal is the bit that contains free will separate from the brain (the only way that Mind makes sense as a discipline separate from Life), and it's the Fallen (read: more Abyssal) world that contains a deterministic theory of mind ("you're all just chemicals and electricity!')

>>47541109
>Implying Sleepwalkers and Awakened have no free will
>Implying free will isn't literally what the Mind part of the soul gives you
>Implying the world is actually derived from the Supernal

Someone has no idea what they're talking about

>>47541197
sure
supernal has free will that never comes up to anyone or matters to anyone
abyss offers free will to everyone in the world that keeps them separate from the supernal

>>47541215
>>Implying Sleepwalkers and Awakened have no free will
why do you think awakened have obsesssionns? why do you think every order is dedicated to worshiping magic in one way or another?

>>47541237
>supernal has free will that never comes up to anyone or matters to anyone
>abyss offers free will to everyone in the world that keeps them separate from the supernal
>[citation needed]

>why do you think awakened have obsesssionns?
Because in this day and age, with the Abyss in the way, only obsessive and determined people Awaken.

Mages probably weren't Obsessed back in Atlantis, because there was no need to work so hard to Awaken. So, if anything, again we're back at the ABYSS decreasing the free will of Mages, not the Supernal.

>why do you think every order is dedicated to worshiping magic in one way or another?
Except only a minority actually worship it. The Orders all have a theory on where and how magic is FOUND, and what its nature is, but literally only the ones who believe in Mage Jesus actually worship Magic itself.

If reality worked by consensus the real world would be as unsettling as a coked out tranny pride parade.

Sleepers aren't scared of the abyss they're grateful that it exists. The people that play with these incomprehensible horrors of un-reality that call themselves Mages are just another flavor of monster like Vampires or Werewolves.

>>47541413
I'm not the previous guy.
You lost me. What does consensus have to do with it.

>>47538799
The Quashmal aren't supernal, though, they're made of Pyros. Also, according to Mages, the Soul travels through all five of the Subtle Arcana ending at Death to become a full Soul.

>>47540079
>But Beast is right up there with WoD Gypsies.
I honestly do not agree with you, which is one of the reason anons hate me and say I'm just inanely ranting. It's a game that if it got an STG it would be perfectly playable. It's nowhere near as bad as Gypsies, which is inherently racist and filled with fetishization and exoticism. Although I will say that at least Gypsies had a focus, even if it was a dumb "defend the sacred jewels!" focus. "Be a traveling band of teenagers" also makes for a good game. I want to argue with you about it (not to say that it's a great game and everyone should buy it, but that it's not utter pointless garbage only for bad people) but I also don't want to listen to a long podcast. I'm not the guy asking for transcripts, but I can certainly understand why they would.

>>47541109
>>47541237
This literally makes no sense. The Abyss is not free will. Sleeping is by definition not having choice. It is the lack of a choice. The Abyss prevents them from using their free will, and the Supernal grants that free will by giving them a soul in the first place. Having an Obsession isn't a lack of free will, it's the presence of the free will to seek out the things that interest you. Sleepers are wageslaves.

Hunters are not human and are a full template because nearly all of them qualify as Heroes from Beast. Checkmate, Rory.

>>47541837
That's... Wrong.

>>47541849
No it's not.

>>47541863
Heroes and hunters are different things. Completely so. What the hell are you on about?

>>47541885
Show me the substantive differences between a Hero and a Hunter from HtV.

>>47541837
Fact Sphere? Is that you?

>>47541904
Yes.

>>47541901
The fact that one is a core splat, with unique and varying abilities(at tier 3), age heroes are people chosen by the primordial dream? And that the book explains how hunters react to heroes?

>>47541913
You are the most handsome sphere.

>>47537764

Your opinion?

>>47541929
They are not chosen by the Primordial Dream, they are humans who came into contact with a Beast and were changed by the interaction, drawing them to want to hunt and kill them. That is no different from any other hunter who encountered the supernatural and were drawn to kill them.

>>47541967
Thank you, m'lady.

>>47541971
The Devs were/are in a bit of a freefall, and have been for a while. Even if it was released, it would eventually have some of the same issues EVE is now.

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>>47541994
>I haven't read the book and shitpost furiously!

>>47541971
I never really thought it was a good idea, I've seen how modern horror MMOs work and it's bad. Just go try The Secret World for a day and you'll realize you never want to be a Caitiff Lvl. 3 fighting voivode ghoul mobs in the New York slums for the hours.

>>47542046
That's not in my copy. I just reread the entire Hero section from my KS copy and that was nowhere to be found. Did you just make that up?

>>47542063
The KS copy isn't up to date. Page 201.

>>47542085
Then how can you fault me for not reading something that wasn't in my copy of the fucking book? Why do you have to be an asshole about it when I just wanted to have a civil argument? You know what? Fuck you.

>>47541837
>>47541863
>>47541901
>>47541929
They're too busy being Reckoning Hunters to be Vigil Hunters.
>The supernatural is dangerous, multi-faceted, and largely outside of human law and morality. Some people see the supernatural and feel called to combat or at least study what lurks in the dark, and these people become hunters (a la Hunter: The Vigil). These people are exceptional in their drive and bravery, however, and a good number of them wind up dead or inexorably changed by their fight.
>Heroes are not hunters. They do not take up their battle against Beasts because of something that was done to them. They step into situations that they do not understand, that they have no context for, and make a gross assumption about what they’ve seen. They respond with violence out of misplaced outrage or, worse, a desire for adulation. The people they bring along are normal mortals who would rather simply shake off the experiences they had and go back to their lives; they do not share the Hero’s bloody-mindedness or his gifts

>>47541994
That's not even remotely true.
But >>47542046 got to it before I could.

>>47542101
>How can you fault me for not reading the final version of something?

>>47542106
To be fair, they're not helping their case by making an entire Hunter conspiracy that seems inspired by one of the Hero examples.

>>47541971
Is this about the MMO or the rpg?

>>47542101
I had thought you were just shitposting. To make up for it, here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/1p6c2g2q7pkctq0/Beast_the_Primordial_-_Core.pdf

>>47542128
Thanks.

>>47542106
>They're too busy being Reckoning Hunters to be Vigil Hunters.
They aren't busy enough. They would have been but the Devs didn't let them.

>>47542126
The MMO that was being developed by CCP.

>>47542126

Same shit

>>47542137
I've been arguing with Aspel a bit this past that, so I'm slightly in edge. I'm seeing shitposting where it may not be.

>What are your biggest inspirations for your games?

X-Files, Generation Kill, Tarantino Films, Doestoevsky novels.

>>47542148
He has that effect on people.

>>47542155
>Tarantino films
Please elaborate. It's important.

If you'd said Peckenpah, I'd have been completely down with you.

>>47542155
Nice.

>>47542121
What, the Dream Warriors? They're only a little like Melanie, and she wasn't trained as a dream warrior by evil scientists who wanted to capture Beasts and use them to fight the Soviets.

>>47542128
>>47542148
They were clearly shitposting as well. Who argues about something without reading the current version?

>>47542175

He means to say he copies the general anti-white sentiment his movies have

>>47542192
>Who argues about something without reading the current version?
How are you sure they even knew it wasn't the current version? You're arguing in bad faith, and exhibiting a shitload of privilege here. Not everyone has constant internet access or the ability to buy or steal the most current version.

>>47535907
This. The local news is ripe with material.

>>47542209
anti-white or pro-feet?

>>47542192
>They're only a little like Melanie, and she wasn't trained as a dream warrior by evil scientists who wanted to capture Beasts and use them to fight the Soviets.
She'd have made more sense as an antagonist if she was, as is she's the most sympathetic character in the book.

>>47542228
It's a kickstarter draft from over a year ago. Common sense dictates that there's probably something else. I'll be sure to check my knowing what I'm talking about privilege.

>>47542251
She still helps murder people. You act like you can't have a sympathetic antagonist.
Though personally, I think her story is better if there's no "you can totally cure a Hero of the crazy" option.

>>47542351
>I'll be sure to check my knowing what I'm talking about privilege.
That's not privilege, that's just you being wrong and too stubborn to admit it. This is not new, and it's entirely the reason you don't wear your trip because you know you'd be mass filtered.

>>47542406
How am I wrong? Are you seriously arguing that he shouldn't be called out for treating way out of date material like it's fact?

>>47542439
If he admitted he didn't know it was out of date and didn't carry on the argument after (which he did) then why keep fucking badgering them about it? You're absolutely in the wrong.

>>47542471
I'm not badgering him, you're badgering me. And I'm saying that he should have known before he started whining. Even in the Kickstarter draft it's made clear that Hunters aren't Heroes anyway.

Not to mention that you're defending someone who's trying to kick up the hornets nest of "Hunters totally are supernatural creatures and not mortals!" So even if he was making an honest mistake that he shouldn't have made in the first place, he's still trolling about Hunter.

>>47542351

Beasts aren't people. Like, all posturing aside, they do not even have a human soul.

>>47542209
I want /pol/ to leave.

>>47542731
Neither do Werewolves--or Prometheans, or Demons, and depending on how you judge it neither do Changelings or Vampires, or hell, even dogs--but it would still be wrong to just wantonly murder them without good reason.

"They're a supernatural so it's okay to murder them on that alone" is the worst kind of Hunter logic, and it denies any sort of moral complexity.

>>47542731
They aren't human, but they are people.

>>47542966
>Werewolves--or Prometheans
They explicitly do, however, just not standard ones.

>>47542997
Prometheans certainly don't. And a spirit-soul isn't really human.

>>47542966
Werewolves have a half human half spirit soul. Prometheans have a learners permit soul and are trying to get a real one. Changelings have a real soul that's been hurt badly. Vampires have souls that have the beast living inside them. Dogs don't have souls.

Beasts are all monster.

>>47543065
Beasts are a balance began human and monster. Specifically.

>>47543158
This, they're symbiotic

>>47543065
>Prometheans have a learners permit soul and are trying to get a real one.
This is great.

Also, "half-human" doesn't count, and neither does a learner's permit. Demons also still don't have souls, and neither do Mummies, if I understand them correctly (I don't, but they still don't have souls I don't think). And, yes, at least we agree that dogs don't.

It would still be seen as a bad thing to MURDER ALL DOGS. It would also be seen as a bad thing to murder all Vampires or all Changelings or all Werewolves or all Prometheans or all Demons or all Mummies, even though those can be troublemakers.

>>47543179
>>47543158
Actually the Horror eats your Soul. Or at least it did. Reading the section about the Devouring on page 52, I honestly can't tell what they're trying to say. Seems like you get Beastbraced, though there is still talk of having your soul eaten, but it seems the Horror was already there, not the thing that eats your soul.
>The first exposure that the dreamer has to the Dark Mother does much to shape her life going forward. Sometimes, the Devouring just happens. The Horror ascends from the Primordial Dream, finds the dreamer, and consumes the thin veneer of humanity that was her soul. Sometimes, a Beast finds the dreamer, her Horror drifting toward the dreams of a seemingly normal person whose nightmares extend deep into the Primordial Dream. The Beast might then choose to offer the Devouring to the dreamer. Some Beasts couch the Devouring the form of an offer; become a Beast, or remain a dreamer. Some are less friendly about the choice, making it clear that if the dreamer refuses to join the Begotten, she can’t be allowed to live. Some don’t even bother making the offer, but progress directly to the Devouring. Very occasionally, the dreamer spots a Beast first and follows her, trying to make sense of the odd connection she feels, eventually realizing she is, in a sense, chasing herself.
This sort of adds to the schizophrenic 1e feel of Beast, especially when you think about Melanie. Sleeping Beauty chased the Horror into the Primordial Dream because she was supposed to be a Beast, but chased away her own Horror instead and became trapped in a coma. Maybe she can be cured of HeroCrazy or she can be united with her Horror and become a Beast.

Either way, skimming over this stuff, I really need to give these sections of Beast a more thorough read in preparation for my Primordial Dream focused Mage game.

>>47543304
Mummies' souls have been shredded and only leftovers remain. However, you can gradually rebuild them, as five aspects of the soul serve as secondary power-stats.

I never eally got an answer to this, but what does Nemesis think of the Shartha?

>>47543365
I think that honestly you can't really consider Mummy when you talk about this stuff, because it was intentionally set in a sort of tangential World of Darkness. I shouldn't have brought it up.

>>47543389
Elaborating on this, Mummy has a bit of an oWoD sensibility. It's ostensibly the same setting, but everything is different.

>>47543389
Tangential or not, they can still be discussed from an ethical angle. We're not trying to create an unified backstory or anything.

>>47542148

Don't let it get to you, it's just Aspel. Sure he's an annoying autist who can't see other people's point of view in the slightest, but at least he's confined to the internet.

>>47542997
Beast souls are human in origin and require Death to steal, which makes them more human than Werewolves.

>>47543365

Mummies have a soul, their True Name has just been stolen from them and kept in duat. How much True Name = Soul, I have no idea.

It's what apotheosis is, to my mind, giving yourself a new True Name ( what kvothe did in The kingkiller Chronicles)

>>47543488

Addendum: This is why you have the 'pronounce your Decree' prologue thing, so you say your name and the judges take it. Arisen do have a soul, someone else just already has a claim to it.

>>47543527
When I said "leftovers" I meant the Decree and whatever lets you increase Pillar dots. As the True Name being taken and Soul being shredded aren't contradictory I don't know where we disagree.

>>47543471
>require Death to steal
Where do you get that? More importantly, where do you get that Werewolves don't? Sever the Soul doesn't even say "Add Spirit: Take a Werewolf's soul".

>>47543527
The Rite of Return had the Judges dismantle the future Mummy's Soul until they got to a piece strong enough to resist - the Decree.

Mage question - Why is changing the weather a Forces effect?

>>47543471
All souls require Death to steal, multiple arcana for shit like that isn't a part of 2e.

>>47543627
Because, in the spirit of the Tamers of Air which are an Acanthus Legacy, it's Forces acting in a great interconnected web...or something of that nature.

>>47543627
Probably due to association with lightning, wind and heat and because weather is a very dynamic system. I agree that a lot of weather could be controllable with Matter.

>>47543627
because you're forcing the weather to change

>>47543627
Atmospheric pressure, absence or excess of heat in the air, etc. all of these are what contribute to weather and are also within the domain of Forces.

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>>47543674

Do any of you think they'll change spells or attainments when the mage errata is released? People seem to up in arms about certain things, and I'm wondering if the devs actually give a shit.

>>47543569
>>47543617

You're both correct, just wanted to clarify. (I just really like Mummy).

>>47543627
Why wouldn't it be?

>>47543670
Matter? What? I guess air and water are Matter, yeah. The book is definitely taking a more "pressure and heat and electricity" approach to it. If I remember from 1e, Wind was Forces

>>47543708
Dave's said he's going to be looking over the Practices and deciding which complaints are valid and which aren't. I doubt we'll see anything radically different, but some stuff will likely change.

>>47543786
We're the same person. I was clarifying my earlier point. Still, thanks.

Also, I like Mummy too. It has lots of things that speak to me.

>>47543914
Why'd you take your trip off, Jakki?

>>47543871
Well, Forces is definitely more versatile. You did get my point, though.

>>47543958
so he could shitpost in another thread

>>47543958
I'm Teatime, actually. Also from the forums.

>>47543977
>Also from the forums.
everyone here is

>>47544026

I'm not. (the other Mummy fan)

>>47542175

I try to give each player their own individual arcs and stories and weave their plots together at key junctures, keeping individual threads entertaining enough for the other players to pay attention to want know what happens next.

X-Files comes in with there being a lot of ambiguity with the less-established material I bring in. This is coupled with a feeling of paranoia and erieness, distrust of authority, and the threat of greater, looming mechanisms.

Generation Kill comes in with ineptitude and futility on the parts of all actors - even the major threats and conspiracies have their dumbfuck moments which send things spiralling out of control, which to the players makes them second-guess what the fuck is going on, and helps them deal with their own bad rolls in stride.

And from Big D, I like flipping the player's strengths into weaknesses and turn their deficiencies into hidden means of humility and possibly even redemption.

>>47544080

Of course this is what I /try/ to do, but whether or not I actually succeed is another matter.

>>47544235
How do you players feel about your games? That's a decent measure stick.

>>47544258

They all like it so far, with one saying that my current campaign is the best he's ever played in.

>>47544423
Congrats. Here's hoping you make them happy-sad when the campaign wraps up.

>>47543670
>>47543871
I want to see a Legacy (or something like one) that takes concepts like "E=mc2" and "time-space continuum" and uses them to let their members use Forces/Matter and Time/Space interchangeably.

>>47535237

>"That one janitor weirds me out. What's going on with him?"
>The librarian is a chaos mage. Huh.
>Urban legends about the ancient sewer networks beneath the school turn out to be true in the worst way possible.
>That bugfuck hobo who has to get shooed away on a weekly basis? He's a pro-hunter with a tragic backstory and a long shit-list.

>>47535237
Having played Teen Wolf, you should probably figure out if your players want to lean towards campy/melodramatic or stick to straight laced WoD bleak. Usually when players want to do 'teen ____', they want some of the trappings of that whole genre. I personally recommend that the school is lousy with ghosts, both those of students and those attached to artifacts, and that it's a breeding ground for Ridden given a bunch of mopey teens ready to be latched on to. Maybe involve a less rapey Ashwood Abbey.

I fucking hate oWoD

It's a piece of shit

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>>47544988

>>47544988
It really is.

>>47544988
Yeah, they really pumped that setting for all it was worth, supplement wise.

That being said, you wouldn't have had CofD without it sooooo.... how about you shut your fucking mouth.

>>47545095
>Yeah, they really pumped that setting for all it was worth, supplement wise.
And yet all they came up with was shit and more shit.

Until CofD, the gem.

>>47545170

Man, what a cranky Obrimos.

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http://theonyxpath.com/memorial-monday-meandering-monday-meeting-notes/
>Ghouls and Revenants will be here momentarily

My body (and mind) is ready.

Give me some o' dat sweet, sweet ghoul lore.

>>47545225
>>Ghouls and Revenants will be here momentarily
that's tomorrow

>>47544988

It's ok setting-wise but goes to shit thematically. How could anybody stand the whiny "Oh boo hoo, everything is a sinking ship with the rats onboard fighting tooth and nail to avoid the inevitable." That's what happens when you pander to goth nerds I guess.

>>47545225

A fucking mistake, reviving this shit was a fucking error the money and effort could have gone to make more CofD books

The anniversary editions were a mistake, oWoD was a mistake

>>47545268
>that's tomorrow
Yes, like I said:
>momentarily

>>47545305
yeah let dracula take command of that crap ship and run it into the ground

>>47545305
>A fucking mistake, reviving this shit was a fucking error the money and effort could have gone to make more CofD books
>The anniversary editions were a mistake, oWoD was a mistake

Yaaaay, more edgy fanwankers.

Just what we needed.

>>47545346
>Yaaaay, more edgy fanwankers.
fanwankers would imply that they liked it

>>47545305
>>47544988
Look, I don't like oWoD in the least, but who gives a shit? Why can't you let people enjoy things that you don't like? I think Masquerade is dumb, but I'm glad for Ghoulanon that he gets to have his book with Ghoul stuff.

No one cares if you hate it.

>>47545391
Split the generals.

>>47545461

Race war now

>>47545461
Weren't they split after a while? What the hell happened to merge them back again?

>>47545482
The oWoD ones died almost immediately.

>>47545482
People like myself worked towards bringing them back together.

>>47545461
I'd be down with this.

>>47544988
>>47545039
>>47545051
>>47545105
>>47545278
>>47545305
Hey, dude. I don't like CofD. I was there when they ended the line and I was sad to see oWoD go. But I don't say asinine bullshit about CofD with no constructive input.

Now how about your shut your fucking mouth and contain your fucking autism.

>>47545490

And then the oWoD shitters came crying and begging to merge the generals again

>>47545521
As evidenced by >>47545490 OWoD dies off. I see barely any discussion about it here anyway, so why does it matter?

Unless you have less than two brain cells to rub together, you should be using extensions or other means to block reply chains from your view. I don't see any need to split an already low interest topic up.

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>>47545561
see >>47545521

Oh, and take that shitter bullshit back to /v/

>>47545610
I don't do that because the CofD discussion doesn't actually bother me.

It's just not my cup of tea.

>>47545656
Its funny how your ok with our discussion while other CofD fans are rabid Edgelords calling for your death.

>>47545764
Bullshit, who do you think started the whole 'chronicles of fagness' thing? But they cWoD fans stirring up shit.

>>47545808
Do you really think Chronicles of Fagness is an attack? You know it use to be World of Fagness right.

Hell I'm pretty sure the original Fagness is a fan of CofD.

>>47545610
>As evidenced by >>47545490 OWoD dies off. I see barely any discussion about it here anyway, so why does it matter?

You barely see any discussion of something that is not mage, general name should be /macf/
Mage the Awakening Chronicles and (lesser) friends

>>47545912
Until GenCon and we get more Deviant and Hunter news, then it'll pivot. /wodg/ is a fickle mistress.

>>47544710
you can call them mathemagicians and get laughed at by all other mages

>>47545764
Meh. Shit's stupid anyway.

>>47545808
That is the new official name for the line from the company that makes it.

So im trying to come up with a lodge for the Eater of Names.
An idea I have for its blessing be "any magic targeting you cannot get a exceptional success"and for its sacred hunt benefit having it be "gain a withstand raiting equal to your Honory Rank".
Is this to much?

>>47545942
Doubt it. Mage's developer seems to be the only one who is satisfied to leave his shitty political opinions on his twitter and actually dares to talk to people outside that inbred OP forum about his game. It's the one game I see being played outside of the "WW" circle for that reason.
Deviant and Hunter have too good a chance of becoming another Beast desu.

>>47546167
He means "the poster who calls Chronicles of Darkness chronicles of fagness".

>>47546275
>the only one who is satisfied to leave his shitty political opinions on his twitter
Didn't he write one of the sidebars about Gender, and didn't people spend like a week bitching about how SJW Mage 2e is, and didn't he go off on someone (in a British way) for bitching about something progressive?

Also, he's the same person making Deviant.

>>47546334
The Sidebar is tame as hell and pretty much only says "Mages can see into your brain and tell if you're honest, or pretending for attention", and can solve the problem with a spell.

The bitching was mostly about the gay pride parade art for the Free Council, and some (infrequent and unjustified) bitching about the race of some example characters.

Also we know almost nothing of Deviant's themes other than "someone made you into a monster".

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>>47546334

And let's not forget the gaylords in the Free Council

>>47546383

We also know a Deviant won't ever be as powerful as a Mage because mages are the most powerful thing ever

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>>47546471

>>47546500

You just mad because your werewolfy or vampy is never gonna be as powerful as my Mage

>>47546553
that's why you rip out their eyes, tongues and fingers first when dealing with mage scum

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>>47546334
Is anyone at Onyx Path not a huge SJW with ego problems prone to reflexive virtue signalling?
>mfw Rose intended to make a sword & planet game, basically one of the skimpiest-clad most pro-masculinity fantasy genre out there.
If it ever gets released it'll either be a trainwreck or cause so much internal and fan asspain it'll even be worth giving money to those hacks.

>>47546585
They didn't used to be that way. A friend of mine from high school is now dating an old school white wolf dev who's still active in game design. Motherfucker went full Sock Juice when it became cool.

What the fuck is it with liberals and falling in line with whatever new craze is happening? Like I remember this one kid. Hated the Iraq war, thought that anyone who had enlisted after the war bared a share of the blame.

The moment that Obama was elected and Rahm Emanuel started making noise about bringing back mandatory service, he was all about it.

>>47546383
Actually it was mostly bitching about "white elimination" or whatever that one poster called it.

>>47546585
>>47546672
>No one ever actually cares about things, they're just pretending so that they look good to other people who don't actually care
"Virtue signalling" is the dumbest meme. Please go back to /pol/.

>>47546553
Actually its super simple to stop a mage from casting spell. If you prevent a mage from forming an Imago then the mage can't cast spells.

>>47546769
Actually I remember Dave saying that the Lobotomy tactic doesn't actually work according to Mage's cosmology, so I think it's actually impossible to stop the Imago short of, like, fucking with someone's Soul or using Counterspell to attack that directly.

>>47546763
/k/ here.
>pic related

It's not a meme. It's a one-upping game that comes from trying to be more compassionate-than-thou.

Source: My hyper-liberal family one-upping each other around the thanksgiving table.

>>47546750
They either fit in with the new shit or they get kicked out head first and slandered.
There's a similar issue with LGBT 'queen politics' where it's very important to be gayer than thou or at the very least not as not-gay as the one with least status present.
>>47546763
>literal SJW defending virtue signalling
/cofd/ was a mistake.

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>>47546817
>forgot pic

>>47546672
>Is anyone at Onyx Path not a huge SJW with ego problems prone to reflexive virtue signalling?

I thought that was a requirement to get a job at OP?

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>>47546763
This is the same jackoff from the 7th Sea thread. Self-admitted SJW, RPG.net faggot and Beast-defender.
Just ignore and keep truckin'.

>>47546817

>Anecdote is good evidence right

I don't have a dog in this fight but if we're going to start using thanksgiving family politics to prove things are real then I guess we might as well start bringing in Facebook memes. Never mind that "hyper-liberal" is about as empty a term as every other political buzzword these days.

>>47546805
Back in 1e it was impossible (bar Archmastery) to stop a Mage from forming an Imago.
Basically it's like a fusion of the mind and soul, darn near imposible to affect.

Of course, you could convince them there was no need, rather than flat out stopping them. But that takes a bit more finesse.

>>47546874
It does seem like it's near top of the list right now after the requirement to be a metaplot shitter for their new 2E line.

>>47546877

Being from the best RPG news and discussion site is bad now?

>>47546874

No it's actually watching over 75 hours of anime. That much anime is like the Room of Renunciation, it'll either turn you into a hard-leftist or a hard-right winger, with no in-between.

>>47546885
As is your dismissal or a behavior that many people claim is real.

Take it with however much salt you please.

>>47546817
No it's not. It's what /pol/ says whenever anyone happens to care about something. Ironically, /pol/ is all about virtue signalling, they just have different virtues than the ones they hate.

>>47546840
You can't defend something that isn't real.

>>47546897
Isn't Counterspell still attacking the Imago in 1e? I honestly don't remember, I sort of stopped liking Mage in 1e. Also, the Mind is part of the Soul. That much was (probably) true in 1e.

>>47546926
RPG.net is the most horrible lowest-quality tabletop forum out there and that's saying something.
It has all the issues of traditional forums amplified thousands of times over, the worst modding team known to man and posters who are only marginally worse, you included.
It only got off the ground off the back of reviewers, who worked for free before the staff decided to steal their content from them with an update a few years ago, and old devs who no longer hang there due to the mod team and required toxic politics.

>>47546842
>CLUB THEM TO DEALTH

>>47546984
I remember back when accusing people of being the Redditor was the insult of the day.

>>47546974
>You can't defend something that isn't real.
Just like Misandry am I rite?

Fuck off.
>>>/out/

>>47546926

If RPGnet is somehow the best place to talk about games, then lord help us all, we might as well flush the hobby down the toilet. That said, the people who complain about RPGnet and their poster's politics are just as thin-skinned as the people they complain about.

>>47547000
>I remember back when accusing people of being the Redditor was the insult of the day.
Redditor is relatively new and only started after reddit became huge in the mainstream.
Forgefaggot and RPGnet-goer are both much older insults and likely predate you on this site if that's your standard for 'remembering'.

>>47546974
The term was actually coined by Mollie Hemmingway at the Federalist. It was a couple of years before /pol/ picked it up.

>>47545391
>Why can't you let people enjoy things that you don't like?
we're not stopping anyone from enjoying it
but that doesn't mean we can't talk well-deserved shit about it

>>47546974
>Isn't Counterspell still attacking the Imago in 1e?
You're actually "weakening or even canceling the attacking spell, similar to how an obstacle can act as cover against a ranged attack".

You're not undermining the Imago, you're counteracting its effects.

>>47546974
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22virtue+signalling%22&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=1990&as_yhi=2016

>>47546946

An anecdote about a "hyper-liberal" family around thanksgiving dinner is about as useful as a "hyper-conservative family: around thanksgiving dinner: completely useless.

The way people use "virtue signalling" in this thread, whether it's real or not (I don't really see why it wouldn't be real) seems to be code for "I can't actually argue my political views in an intellectually honest and reasonable manner, so I'm just going to say that my opponent doesn't actually mean what they're saying at all." I didn't think the internet would find a new Godwin, but we did it, everybody.

How is Rose anyway? Is she one of the decent few or should we expect pages upon pages discussing Vance-city's views on gender relations?

>>47546974
>posts SJW politics
>defends virtue-signalling
>throws around /pol/
Ugh.
And no it's not a non-existent phenomenon like you're pretending.
In local politics they're referred to unflatteringly as "goodness-junkies/goodness-narcomaniacs" and are parodied, generally using greens, as image-obsessed bastards without any principles who will say anything that sounds nice and then turn around and are massive hypocrites in their private life.

>>47547177

Fuck off Rose

>>47547161
>I can't actually argue my political views in an intellectually honest and reasonable manner
This coming from someone who doesn't actually recognize that the other's stance exists at all, while defending the exact act described in other threads.
But of course you're "genuine" in doing this and not at all full of shit.

>>47547161
see >>47547108

>>47547177
Oh, and they're famous for their holier-than-thou attitude and tactics.
>We're pro this
>We're anti this
>HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT YOU ABSOLUTE SCUM [teary eyes, cries a little]
>Spends weeks in the papers belaboring this and how much better they are
>Gets caught doing this at home and/or gets applause for being pro-this at party congress
>Papers leak this
>Cry a bit, be promised to stay and then get unceremoniously replaced by the next hypocrite in line for a leadership post

>>47547177
>Rose
I guess you'd consider her one of the decent few. She keeps to herself for the most part and doesn't seem to be a shitspammer like most.

>>47547333
>She keeps to herself for the most part and doesn't seem to be a shitspammer like most.
Well that's promising. Just the fact that she's not terribly active on their forums is a plus in and of itself.
Hopefully she has some ownership of the IP or editorial controls.

>>47546763
"virtue signaling" is true, it doesn't happen just on SJW circles, it happens pretty much in every movement, when age of average member starts being over 35 or 40, they start to tune it down

>>47546930
Is there any right winger in onyx path?

Hopefully the mod who came through the 7th Sea thread and deleted the /pol/shit is still around and we can get back to talking about gay werewolves.

>>47547422
I want to write up a gay werewolf lodge, just for fun, but it's so silly that I don't even know what to do with it.

>>47547422

Yeah that discussion is so much better

>>47547422
Motherfucker, it's not just /pol/ who hates you.

The category "Hates you" encompasses anyone who's gotten an eyeful of how you guys operate and what you stand for.

Don't feel bad. /pol/ can't stomach this fact, either.

>>47546227
Lodge of the Magic Eaters.
Manavores. Nomenvores. Name-eaters. Supernal Stalkers. Vorare Magicae.

>Is this to much?
it's pretty weak, actually (which is okay, there are weak lodges)

some way to sense magic would be really useful

>>47547367
He's a tranny and the least outspoken of the OPP people so who knows.

>>47547422
Hopefully you, the sole person on /tg/ spouting SJW bullshit, is thrown back to the forums that spawned you by then.

>>47547566
well, no, that's probably stew wilson or rich dansky

>>47547606
actually Aspel has been on /tg/ longer than he's been on the forums

>>47547442
You could go with "they're not necessarily gay, but you can clearly see where I'm going with this" or "just fucking camp it up".

Their Siskur'Dah focuses on those who would repress themselves, and their Hunt is mostly social based. All about destroying their Prey's self-imposed limits and scaring them into fulfilling their potential. They don't (usually) end their Hunt in a kill, but if someone is limiting expression, they will. Or if their Prey ignores their threat and still squanders their potential or holds themselves back from their desires (after all, if you can't live the way you want, you don't deserve to live). Think of them as a Lodge based on that one scene from Fight Club where Tyler stole the guy's ID and told him he'd kill him if he wasn't on his way to vet school. Fight Club is also totally gay.

They also go after, like, Pray-Away-The-Gay camps and people like Leelah Alcorn's parents. Maybe have a thing about how some of them even had their First Changes in those camps or grew up Mormon or something like that, and they took their hate for that with them when they became Wolves.

>>47547474
>>47547606
K

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>>47547474
They were bound to pop up here the second OPP devs came to post about their games on here.
Best just not to encourage them.

>>47547658
>this whole post
It's like i'm reading someone's worst stereotypes about being in the closet and predatory older men who think you'd "totally like it if you just tried it".

>>47547222

So yes, in this case, you're using it as a fancy way to say "they don't really mean what they say they mean," which doesn't really serve as a good argument. But then again, we're on 4chan and you get the privilege of arguing with Aspel, the Living Liberal Strawman, so it's not like there was a foundation of decent discussion to begin with.

>>47547786
What?
How do you even get that. That's not at all what I said. They don't turn people gay, they just tell gay people and artists that if they don't do what they want out of life, they'll eat you. And also eat shitty people who keep artists/gays down.

That is the Camp Idea, though. Their Siskur'Dah is all about chasing people down and making them gay.

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>that one autist who shits up 7th Sea, Exalted and World of Darkness threads with SJW posting
It almost makes me wish for the days of the Ravnos clanbook again.

>>47547881

We're never going back to the 90's

Die.

>>47547658
Like I said, /pol/ can't stomach the fact that the same principle applies to them either.

Thank you for making my point for me, by the way.

>>47547881
yugh, fuck off with oWoD shit. they started the whole SJW in gaming trend anyways

>>47547909
K

>>47547906
>Tech boom
>Rising standards of living
>The death of hair metal
>birth of the internet
>one of the most vibrant periods of popular music since the sixties.
>no War
>no Putin

Nigger, do you even golden decade?

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>>47547906
Sez you.
>mfw the license for making 2E stuff is repealed and OPP is refurbished into a reprint shop for old Vampire clanbooks, half of which are little more than negative ethnic stereotypes

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>>47547913
Back in the day, WW pulled zero punches.
>pic related

>>47547986
Paradox is going to be taking over oWoD stuff
so pretty soon we'll have separate threads (OPP and WW)

maybe they'll "fix" all that's crap with owod but I don't thinkthey're gonna do decades of work in the time they take to hastily get out v4

>>47548007
no they didn't
werewolf was the basisfor social justice warriors
vampire was "I'm a freak but I can still LOVE"
mage was "I'm right if I yell atyou hard enough about it"

>>47547986

That was the best sample character in the book

>>47548060
>mage was "I'm right if I yell atyou hard enough about it"

I thought that was Unknown Armies thing?

>>47548060
>>47548060
Now I see the problem.

You're an idiot.

>>47547913
And they were as unintentionally hilarious as modern day SJWs.
>gypsy book
>egyptians are devil worshippers book
>muslims are evil kinkillers book
>italians are incestuous corpsefuckers book
>east europeans are barely restrained seething monsters who can only act civil through tradition book

>>47547542
So how about increasing their withstand raiting by their Honorary Rank?
As for sensing magic I was thinking of a Merit Style for knowdecing spells, hollows, yantras, and nimbus. Not sure in what order yet.

>>47548096
i just know enough about oWoD to see it for the gay-spawning shit it was
>>47548101
>everyone who hates gays/peaceniks/transniggers is a monster

>>47548025
Are OPP losing their license then?
>Paradox
Nice surprise there. Paradox owners started out in the tabletop business. They're also heavily dependent on being on good terms with a /v/ fanbase who rabidly loathe SJW shit with the fury of a million burning suns.
Expect D100's ala Runequest if they get around to re-designing the system though.

>>47548150
Werewolf was definitely pretty bad about that.
>you want to play someone with a sense of dignitas who doesn't engage in hippie shit or want to preen about how horrible metis are
>your options are barely playable wolfform only who kill Metis at birth and will piss off every other player at the table or someone who is nuttier than a Malkavian most of the time

>>47548179
>Are OPP losing their license then?
No. Don't listen to people saying stupid things.
They've also said that they're going to be as progressive as they were in the 90s.

OPP is doing Chronicles, Exalted, and the 20th Anniversaries.

>>47547927
I accept your admission of defeat.

>>47548150
No that's called you needing to spend time away from the internet.

Most normal people can agree that you should judge people by their actions and are not /pol/niggers or furiously chugging the sock juice. Sorry we're not the people you want to argue with.

>>47547610
Stew doesn't communicate at all, seemingly. I still think he and Chris are the same person, with a split personality.

>No. Don't listen to people saying stupid things.
Don't be stupid, it's entirely possible. They have anything negotiated with Paradox and I don't really see an ex-tabletop business like Paradox (Target Games, Äventyrsspel) letting go of the creative control of the setting or all the money related to the license if they'll be making expensive PC games of it as well.
It's why OPP has been talking a lot more about Scion, Trinity, Cavaliers of Mars and Pugmire which is the stuff they own themselves.

>>47548295
K

>>47548392
>making expensive PC games of it as well.

They won't, though. CofD is worthless on that front. They control the WoD license, which is what they're going to be making the vidya from, if anything.

>>47548480
>They won't, though. CofD is worthless on that front.
That's where you're wrong and why CofD is likely to make a comeback under Paradox.
There's is a huge vidya nostalgia over Vampire: Bloodlines which is 100% Masquerade stuff.

>>47548392
They've repeatedly stated that Chronicles of Darkness isn't going anywhere. In fact, the entire reason for the name change was so that there wouldn't be brand confusion. It would be incredibly strange to do all of that and then pull the rug. Not to mention that it would ostracize potential customers, since this thread aside, a lot of oWoD fans are also CofD fans.

OPP has been talking about Scion, Trinity, Cavaliers of Mars, and Pugmire (and Scarred Lands) because that's the stuff they own themselves. They have incentive to want those things to do well. They want it to do well even if they do forevermore keep being able to use the license, but yes, if the license ever does fall through, they definitely want to have that. It's not a sign that they're going to lose it, it's a sign that they're thinking ahead, and a sign that they want proprietary stuff to also happen. You get more profit when you don't have to rent out a license.

>>47548480
They control both. Paradox could very easily make a CofD game, Dracula just doesn't want to.

This is some spooky ass shit and I am certain that someone can make it work for Chronicles of Darkness.
https://youtu.be/wfYbgdo8e-8

>>47548526

Are you confused, anon? CofD is nWoD; Requiem, not Masquerade.