/edh/ Commander General

>>47501379
Does anyone have that token in higher res? It's absolutely bananas

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>>47501379
Since there aren't any actual tokens this is the one I use. I think it's the best looking one out of all the customs.

>>47501379
Has anyone seen a nice token for Budoka Gardener?

There's */* treefolk, courtesy of sylvan offering, but I don't think X/X elemental tokens were ever printed.

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>>47501379
BRING OUT YER META

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>>47501529
One was actually just printed Anon!

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>>47501538
needs an update but whatever

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>>47501501
There's actual "token" though. If you don't mind it being a card, not token.

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>>47501501
I used this image in MSE and made a token of Kobolds of Kher Keep. Looks great.

On my phone atm or I'd just post the token

>>47501573
I have one and used it a few times. My old playgroup were a bunch of fuckin' idiots and either go confused by it or triggered. Plus I couldn't stand the art.

>>47501575
Oh nice I have never seen this one. I'm gonna use it now. Thanks anon!

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>>47501379
That's a pretty neat token. This one is my favorite.

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>playing my self mill/graveyard deck for the first time
>friend plays his general Anafenza

>>47501632
Tricolour anafenza or mono coloured?

>>47501640
Tri colour.

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Summer always means an overhaul in the LGS group

>>47501615
What why? It's a vanilla 0/1 creature named Kobolds of Kher Keep. What's wrong with that? I agree with you about the art though, but I kinda like it for some reason.

>>47501675
I lurk these threads a lot and I've seen you post all of these play groups individually at times. I'm not really making a point, I just think it's neat that you compiled it into one image.

Also, why do asians always play UR shenanigans?

>>47501675
Ive always wanted to play edh with a grill.

>>47501677
It was only one time one of these spergs got upset about it. i can't even remember what the exact situation but essentially he was trying to count something up and just kinda glanced I guess and thought it was an actual creature and not 6 tokens, even though I clearly showed what I did and no one else was confused. Started babbling about shitty players not explaining things properly or some shit about not using actual cards as token. Pretty much just told him to stfu and one shotted him next turn. But it left a bad taste in my mouth about the card.

okay so today I did an audit of all Legendary Creatures I have and... well I'll ask about that later when I'm up to taking notes.

the other thing is I found out that I own some incredibly expensive cards.
two All Hollow's Eve, and The Abyss.

clearly making full playsets of either would be prohibitively expensive, but that doesn't matter as much in commander, so I'll probably sell one All Hollow's Eve even if it's useful.

The Abyss is a different problem. the damn card is slightly damaged, but not enough that I still can't sell it for a decent chunk of change. if it were near mint I'd sell it anyway since I'm too poor to not, but since I'm looking into making decks for commander I might as well keep and use an OP card I couldn't afford otherwise.

>>47501727
The Abyss isn't really that OP unless you're playing dedicated creatureless creature hate or token spam or remanimator.

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I need help friends, which deck should I build? Keep in mind, my resources are fairly limited, but I have no problem with aquiring some neat things to help me out:

>standard Heartless Hidetsugu damage doubling OTK nonsense
>Inkeyes reanimator voltron with a discard flavor
>RG/x post-xenagos beat down. There are a few different options, maybe an Animar, perhaps a Kresh
>Nekusar forced draw/discard control disguised as a grouphug
>Sedris R/Bu unearth value ETB slugfest
>RG/u Uril tutor voltron manaramp
>Mazierk +1/+1 counter token spam bonanza, filled with hydras, westvale, doubling season and various goodstuff

>>47501862
RG/w mayael big stuff, tutor up xenagos its got ramp, boardwipes, single target removal and all the big fuck off creatures you can just play or cheat in with mayael, naya stompy is the tits and can be farily cheap i have one myself

>>47501793
>the abyss isn't really that OP
>unless you make a dedicated build to play to it's strengths
It's pretty OP anon. Not Grislebrand game-ruining OP, but pretty OP none the less.

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>>47501923
What kind of tutors can you run in Maya? I'm very familiar with most of the black ones, but I know next to nothing about things outside of worldly tutor/enlightened tutor/this guy.

>>47501928
I know it's OP, but my question was whether or not it's worth keeping for a commander deck. if not, for me it's better off being sold for cash instead of sitting around in a card box waiting for 3 others to make a full playset.

and how about that All Hallow's Eve? for a second just now I was like "lol wait I could combo both of those!" but then I remembered the card works for all graveyards, not just mine lmao

>>47501988
Keep the abyss, sell one all hallow's eve. You could even sell both, if you felt up to it. Starcity will give you 59.99 each and an extra $120 should be enough to plump up your EDH deck, assuming you didn't purge all your good cards.

>>47502058
I sold my only dual land (a revised Badlands) and a Force of Will last year to buy a bass guitar I never play lmao

the more I think about it The Abyss doesn't seem super useful (I say having no experience with this format) if only because it destroys my shit, too. All Hallow's Eve can bring everything I lost back, which seems a lot more useful in a singleton environment. that's amateur thinking, though.

I guess if anything I should go to my FLGS and try and get it appraised. if it ain't worth shit in its condition I'll keep it. I guess I'll sell All Hallow's Eve and fuck I don't know, participate in an eternal masters draft? what Commander decks are good? I like W/B the most, but after that U G R in that order.

>>47501960
Tooth and nail
Chord of calling
That white sorcery from the theros block that lets you tutor 2 enchantments (gods) but the name escapes me
And others but you mentioned the main ones

>>47502156
>That white sorcery from the theros block that lets you tutor 2 enchantments (gods) but the name escapes me
Plea for Guidance?

Also, tooth and nail is amazing. Why didn't I know about this before? 9 mana to drop any two creatures in my deck? That's just awesome.

>>47502107
The abyss isn't super useful, it's more valuable than anything, and as a rule, I don't think it's going to be reprinted which means it'll only become more valuable with time. All Hallow's Eve is very good, and very useful, it's just an undercosted Grimoire of the Dead, and tons of people run that card. You just have two of them, so getting rid of one when you intend to play singleton kind of makes sense

Anyways, with regard to W/B, why not make a Teysa voltron, or a WBu Oloro pillowfort? Both are pretty fun to play, but "good" commander decks are more relative to your playstyle and playgroup than objectively good cards. You can easily google a T1 decklist with $4k worth of cards in it, the fun part is getting drunk with your friends and playing janky nonsense that you built yourself.

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Somehow I thought this mosaic would turn out better than this. Oh well.
Anyone got a link to a mosaic generator thing that isn't bighugelabs and that works better with magic cards? I like the idea of the commander being surrounded by its flashiest cards. Like a commander showcase.
Here's the decklist. Tell me what a scrub I am.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/karametra-goddess-of-ramp-1/

>>47501719
He was right, you shouldn't need to reply on what someone said turns ago to identify the gamestate.

>>47502676
>lifeblood hydra
I get that it has nifty effects, but I think for xGGG it's way over-costed compared to some of the other hydras.

>Glory
That's pretty neat, I'm going to grab one of those.

>Woodedfoothills
I don't think you can run that, but I may be wrong. I thought all mountains had intrinsically red colour identity.

Overall, you have some very neat cost effective things. I don't really have any suggestions unless you're looking for something in particular.

>>47501675
>girl players
>girl generals
WHY

>>47502939
Foothills has no mana symbol in its text, it just mentions mountains, which is legal. Since it also fetches forests, it gets me my two dual lands as well (and another landfall trigger).
I actually haven't gotten to try Lifeblood Hydra yet. In theory I like that it draws cards when it dies, but I have no real synergy of sacrifice or anything besides Evolutionary Leap and board wipes.

>>47502953
>one guy dating girl 1
>all girl generals
OH FUCK MAN SHE GAVE HIM COOTIES FUCK

>>47502218
Yeah plea for guidance thats the one, in many ways its a junk card but its not really expected and can tutor some nice stuff like the gods and utility auras, also i forgot about idyllic tutor, it fetches xenagos

>>47502966
Hmmm that's interesting, I didn't know you could use off-colour fetch. I looked it up and you're right, I was just caught a little off guard.

Anyways, if you want to replace the hydra, you could replace it with a Kalonian Hydra? Sure, it's slightly expensive, and you don't really have a lot of +1/+1 counter love, but it's my favorite card and is a pretty flashy finisher, even without the ramp. If you aren't interested in that, why not run something like Genesis Hydra or Primordial Hydra? The primordial hydra can be dropped pretty quickly since it's a XG creature, and the Genesis hydra can help you fish for things that you like.

I read your explaination of your deck, and why you're running primal surge, but why not use some on-colour populate? I splashed white in my Mazierk deck just for that purpose.

Uploaded the mayael deck im currently using it can be improved but its still works

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mayael-the-stompy-edh/

>>47503055
Mazirek can't use white. Who's your new commander?

>>47501675
You have two girls in the group and one guy hogs both of them?

>>47503231
To be honest with you Daghatar, the Adamant because he was the only WBG commander I had but I`m trying to find a Ghave or Karador to slot in. I feel like Ghave would synergize better with my +1/+1 love, and Karador would be better for my creatures, but I'm going to end up tutoring Mazirek anyways, so it doesn't particularly matter. He's a little fragile as is, and might be more viable if I drop him super early.

>>47501538
>>47501549
>>47501675

>104/107 are modern legendarys

Fucking children, pls go

>>47503438
What legacy legendary is cost effective, viable, and generally easy to obtain? That spooky pirate ship for infect decks. That's literally it.

>>47503763
I'm quite fond of Chainer, Dementia Master. Merieke Ri Berit is also pretty neat.

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>>47503438
>look mom, I posted it again!
every time people post their meta, you post this meme.

>>47503763
Greel, Mind Raker

>>47504005
>Greel, Mind Raker
That's pretty spicy anon! I'm going to get one of those.

>>47503889
>chainer
Not bad, not bad, I appreciate that.
>Merieke Ri Berit
Would never run her, I think she's too susceptible to removal, but not bad at all. You are quite wise anon.

>>47503956
>Implying (you) means me.
>Implying I'm (you)

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>>47504089
Here's a proper powerhouse.

>>47504216
I really wanted to build him. Some sort of enchantment recursion with cards like Brilliant Halo and Hatching Plans alongside some BW constellation guys from Theros, but he's just too slow.

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>>47502676
Okay, well, here's at least something of a ghetto way of doing it.
Post your decks, y'all.

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>>47501575
>>47501615
Here we go. Figured I'd post it anyways.

Nothing gets my dick harder than Ghost Quartering someone and watching them fail to find a basic.

>>47504655
I know of one thing. Ghost quartering them after they just tutored something to the top of their library.

>>47504758
Ghost Quartering them after they tutored something, watching them pick up their library, start looking, pause and go "Oh FUCK. GODDAMN FUCKING FUCK"

Had it happen, it's glorious.

>>47504655
It is cute, but Strip Mine is like 0 dollars. Or are you the kind of faggot like me who avoids cards they think are unfair?

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I bought 8 enternal masters packs for around $133 instead of working on my nath of the gilt leaf deck.
Wish me luck on good rares.

Who would you guys say would be the best general for ShadowbornApostle.dec? I was thinking Athreos

>>47503763
ZIRILAN, NIGGA

DRAGON DRIVE-BY

>>47504813
No, I'm the kind of faggot who runs Strip Mine AND Ghost Quarter (and Wasteland when budget allows).

>>47504363
Ah, a fellow scion player.
I cut sarkhans triumph. It's flavor win, but it actually works against my deck.

Are you reanimate sub-theme?

>>47504813
Single land destruction isn't considered degenerate anyways. Only mass land destruction.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/evolve-and-consume/

I'm new to this whole simic thing but I think I made an ok deck, not sure who ill be playing with aside from my 2 competitive friends but I'm just looking for a good time any tips?

>>47504965
Mass land destruction isn't considered degenerate either, not by anyone worth playing with.

>>47504946
Yep. Bladewing, Feldon, Whip of Erebos, Ever After, Teneb, Reckless Scholar, Animate Dead, Living Death, and I probably missed a card or two there.
Yeah, there's not that many dragons I want to tutor into my hand with Sarkhan's Triumph. Most of the time it's either Dragonlord Atarka or Deathbringer Regent.
If you want to I can look later if the deck on tappedout is still up to date and maybe post it.

>>47505024
Forgot to mention: Fated Return and Unburial Rites. Also Bring to Light.

>>47504968
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/evolve-and-consume/
There are things I like, and things I dislike. I'll just pick a couple:

>Rootwater Thief
Pretty spicy anon, especially if they know their decklist.

>Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
Why? I think that the kraken Kiora would probably be a little better.

>landfall but no sword of the animist

Anyways, have you thought about splashing black? You could run a The Mimeoplasm deck for more utility than Ezuri, and get access to things like corpsejack menace.

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Post cards you think have been overlooked

>>47504985
Sure it is. But that's the beauty of commander. Everyone has different ways of playing, and there's a group out there for everyone.

>>47505024
That's pretty dedicated. Ever consider Patriarchs Bidding? Wins games with Dragon Tempest/Scourge of Valakas/Sarkahn the mad.

I want a new art Teneb before i use him I can't stand the art he has now.

Bring to late has been one of the best toolbox cards for me lately.

If I may suggest. It's a bit pricy. But scroll rack is amazing in scion. Throw those dragons back into the deck and dig deep plus in 5 color you can always reshuffle with fetches and draw a while new hand every turn.

>>47505237
Bring to light*
whole*

Fuck phones

>>47502953
It's a feminine/sexist thing.
3/4 of my gf's decks are female legends.

Women are the minority in the game, it's not a big deal they want to represent thier sex through the game.

Wizards is getting edgy and creating trans now to for the .001% crowd.

>>47505314
>it's not a big deal they want to represent thier sex through the game.
Yet everybody leaps on guys for wanting to play female characters.

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>>47505174
>generator servant
>not a staple of every one of my red decks ever
Good taste anon. I like this badboy. Stack a few damage increasing effects and watch how people cry late game when you tap him for a creature with X in its CMC while doing 6 damage.

>>47505350
Guys shouldn't want to play women really.
I agree that it doesn't really matter. But some guys take it to far to that cringe/creeper area and that's when they on.

>>47505174
I always forget Generator Servant, I need to remember to throw one in my Narset.

>>47501675
>both girl players play angels
The stereotypes are REAL

>>47505462
To be fair, as a guy I play Xenagos and Geth with equally stereotypical archetypes. My Geth deck was only good by virtue of dumping the edgiest creatures I could possibly find and Xenagos was literally edgy-looking stompy things, the deck.

>>47505440
It's a harmless way of relieving dysphoria.

>>47505082
Landfall: For avenger if im playing him usually its just for the tokens and to end it that turn hopefully or the next. Lotus cobra im mostly just testing out since I already have one and wonder how well it'd work. I'm not really big on sword of the animist.

Both Kiora's look really good but im really not sure which one to pick, that's why I thought freyalise would be fine cause mana and counters sound pretty fine to me.

For now im keeping it with Ezuri since I don't normally keep a duel deck for longer than a week since I built em pretty bad before.

>>47505174
This thing is an MVP in Aurelia

>>47505237
Patriarch's Bidding is indeed a consideration of mine. Scroll Rack really is a bit too pricey for my tastes. (Besides, if I had one, I'd jam it into Karametra. She's even better at shuffle effects). At least I have Brainstorm.
Teneb truly is one ugly motherfucker. As is Vorosh, which is one of the reasons I may cut the latter in the future.
Funny enough, I never played Scourge of Valkas or Sarkhan the Mad so far. I'm not in a hurry to jam them in, but I might try it sometime if I find more things to cut. Right now I fear I'm a bit too light on ramp...
Here's my (I hope) up to date list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/five-color-dragons-new/
The manabase is pretty dodgy, but I'm slowly getting there with fetches and BFZ duals.
What I like about five color is the ability to play all the sweet multicolor cards and charms, like Duneblast, Crackling Doom, Sultai Charm, Abzan Charm, Anguished Unmaking...
I'm also looking for a way to deal with annoying bullshit-ass fuckboy lands like Maze of Ith, Kor Haven and Glacial Chasm. But I don't wanna waste an entire card slot on only land destruction.Ghost Quarter and friends seem like an obvious solution, but my manabase is already a very fragile beast...

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Gonna build this guy

I've never built weenies before and I rarely build with white, wish me luck

>>47505570
Fair enough, I respect that. I'm too wishy-washy to stick to one consistent deck, so I like to splash colours and change it every week.

Sword of the animist is pretty conditional, I agree with you, but I love fishing lands and have mana advantages at early turns. Again, it's pretty conditional so I see your point.

With Kiora I love The Crashing Wave one. The other is kind of meh for straight simic in my opinion, but the crashing wave can let you drop more than one land per turn, draw cards, avoid damage, and drop game ending bombs. It's very very good, but I'm pretty biased, it's one of my favorite cards in general. The biggest drawback is the low loyalty counters, but with Vorel, or whatever, you can stack those pretty quick and simic offers good protection.

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waiting on my friend to finish up my pedo new tokens got a picture of him sitting in his van with bonoculars looking at a playground

>>47505910
>pedo token
what are you going on about? The token looks neat, but i'm kind of lost.

>>47505576
If you ever have a opportunity to pick up Sarkhan or Scourge I highly recommend.
I actually run all sarkhans for flavor, and I find Vol pulling his weight quite often. Only 2 turns to ultimate, plus he gives you that needed haste when it's really important for when you don't have Temur ascendancy or Tempest out.

Yea. 5 colors strengths is also it's weakness. I'm till trying to squeeze in anguished unmaking.

Depending on how fast your meta is, you may want to try lair lands + Scrylands.
It's a bit slower but offered great mana options plus a dozen or so scry triggers for optimal draws. Also use with Gemstone mine and replay with full counters

One piece of secret tech I love is cauldron dance. 6 mana during combat and you get 2 big bombs with haste that switch places at end of turn. I find it winning games often, especially with some scion/rack setup.

>>47506035
Forget to mention lairs come in untapped so I tend to float the Scryland I intend to bounce to I don't lose a land for that turn.

>>47504875
Sherei, or how ever you spell that one

Does anyone have a cantrips deck I could take a peak at? I'm not sure how they work at all and i'm generally interested.

>>47505237
>If you drop tons of threats, I can punish you with wraths, if you play tons of artifacts, I can punish you with Vandalblast, but if I spend the first four turns playing ramp, you can't punish me with MLD because that's degenerate
Sure doesn't sound like someone worth playing with famalam.

>>47506009
I think it's a HOMOculous joke.

>>47504216
Fuck that art though. I love it but it costs like fucking 600 euros. Doesn't help that I love Ertai, both of them.

>>47506484
The game can't be played without lands.
A countered spell doesn't kick you out of the game, a wiped board can be rebuilt. There's interaction in in combat. Trades with removal.

How normal players here deal with people who have 8 mana turn 4 is make it become and 3v1. Rampers are punished by becoming archenemy's. Not getting kicked out of the game completely.

>Inb4 softy faggot
>Inb4 spirit of edh

I don't care. I've got my playgroups and we all play on the same power level. Comfy AF.

>>47504932
Dust Bowl is also worth it. I like to punish people for not running basics. It's hilarious to see people lose or scoop to Back to Basics, Wave of Vitriol or Ruination. Even funnier is scooping to T1 Strip Mine.

>>47506615
>The game can't be played without lands.
Yes it can. You can use the other permanents you have in play. You can use mana rocks. You can play more lands because holy fuck you still have more in your library and maybe even in your hand. You may even have ramp spells left over. The game doesn't stop, lands were just reset.

If you spend your first 3-4 turns ramping and are left with literally nothing but 7-drops in hand, you deserve the be blown out by MLD the same as the player who dropped ALL his threats early on deserves to be blown out by wraths. Yet you don't hear any decent players complaining "oh my god I tapped out and emptied my hand by putting all my threats on the table and the guy next to me cast a wrath and I literally couldn't play anymore it's so degenerate"

>>47506644
I like Dust Bowl but I was putting off ordering it for later in the year because I had a lot of other cards to purchase first, and then Titania came out and its price skyrocketed.

>>47505576
don't play duneblast mate, I ran it in my Scion deck for sometime but it was dead weight most of the times
do you run Dragonlord Atarka, Tyrant's Familiar and Savage Ventmaw? if not put them in.
I also run Sarkhan Unbroken though most of the time I win before I get him out, but if i do all his abilities are pretty useful.
Also I advise you to throw in a Conspiracy along with Rafiq and Aurelia. I also run Elesh Norn and getting her out can shut down entire decks if not immideatly answered.

>>47506075
Lairs are cool, especially flavor wise, but imo they work best late game

>>47506655
You can't use the same argument for both ends.

"Oh. Land destruction sucks? Well how about when ppl play vandalblast"

"Oh, suck it up anon. Just use mana rocks"

>>47506655
I've always been curious what games and decks with MLD play like. I only know edh without it and am happy that way too, but I do have curiosity how much different it is from the kind of EDH I'm used to. Are there any multiplayer gameplay videos on YouTube or something where we see how MLD impacts the game?

>>47506759
"Land destruction sucks" -Suck it up, use your mana rocks.
"Vandalblast sucks." -Suck it up, use your lands.

Seems to me like it works. What's your point?

>>47506803
Ive played against people who use mld, and used it. The reason people dont use it is because its a multiplayer format. It just makes you the archenemy no matter how strong the rest of your deck is. They will kill you before they lose their lands.

>>47506809
I dont have one.
I know well enough how Armageddon fags are. You aren't worth the time.

Enjoy wasting deckslots on shit spells to help you get though mld.

>>47506803
I haven't seen any videos where MLD is featured prominently, because most of the groups doing EDH videos (eg. the SCG crew) are very casual. But overall, how it plays out is people have to be conscious that they need to keep their interaction cheap when deckbuilding so they can stay afloat with minimal mana while they rebuild after MLD, and they have to not put all their lands on the table ASAP just because they can.

In groups without MLD, if you can drop 3 lands and cast a Rampant Growth before even making your play for the turn, you do it. It's a no-brainer, you don't even have to think about it, you're using your mana efficiently and you have more mana next turn. In a group with MLD, you actually have to consider whether that could lead to you getting completely blown out. When I'm playing Maelstrom Wanderer against decks with MLD, I try to make sure I'm always able to recast MW next turn and if I am I STOP RAMPING. Ramping more could lead to bigger plays depending on what I cascade into, sure, but it could lead to losing the game utterly and completely if my opponent has Armageddon.

>>47506803
It's just feel bad for everyone. Even the people that use it know they didn't win.

The only time you see mld glorified is here, where people can remain anonymous and pretend to back ideals they don't actually practice or believe in.

>>47506890
>I don't like thing so if you say you like thing you're lying and only pretending.

>>47506877
Almost all mld players I've played are ex legacy players who were pissed off they only 3 people showed for legacy. So they invaded edh groups with stax and mld decks, get some chuckles then realize they aren't invited to play in the next game.

It's funny to watch actually.

>>47506928
Again with having cake and eating it to?

>You don't like mld you must be a baby casual precon fag

Well done anon.

>>47506855
>>47506877
>>47506890
Yeah I figured it would be something along those lines. Much more strategic and careful, but quite tedious for casual multiplayer fun. Which is what my playgroup and I like anyway.
Doesn't the rebuilding after a resolved armageddon also make games drag on way longer than without it? Cause I like 'em short, but with many moments where the archenemy status shifts. Those are more epic than someone dropping a big threat and then nuking all the lands so it can't be answered. Which is a legitimate strategy, but not the kind of battlecruisin' I like.
>>47506934
Haha! That makes a surprising amount of sense. And is kinda sad for the legacy players. I like resource denial strategies in 1v1 as well, both piloting and playing against them, but not in multiplayer.

>>47506952
There's actually an argument for calling you a baby casual. You want to be able to ramp at will and you never want to be punished for it, in a game where most everything else can be punished. That makes you a baby casual who doesn't want his opponents to be able to interact with what he's doing.

You have no argument for claiming people who play MLD don't like MLD, and you sure as fuck don't have one for claiming that "the people that use it know they didn't win". A victory doesn't count because you don't like how it was achieved? Are you one of those idiots who also think combo wins don't count?

>>47507003
You are just assuming shit.
I don't care what you think, go bother somebody else.

>>47507002
>Doesn't the rebuilding after a resolved armageddon also make games drag on way longer than without it?
Nah, it just means the focus of the game switches to leaner, more efficient decks with lower curves. In the late-game, everything's about the ramp decks and their 6+ mana spells, any low-curve player at the table has to sit and watch while they do all their flashy shit. MLD lets those decks bring the game back to a state where they are once again the star of the show and they can make some forward progress and actually kill people.

If everyone's playing decks with an average CMC of 4.5+ however, then sure, the game might grind to a halt.

>>47507047
>you are just assuming shit
Says the guy who implies all MLD players secretly hate MLD.

>>47507087
Im at work for another 5 hours.
If you want to play the "last word" game. I got time.

>>47507069

>If everyone's playing decks with an average CMC of 4.5+ however, then sure, the game might grind to a halt.

That's most edh decks. A format known for big bombs and splashy spells.

>>47504826
Wasted Money

>>47507141
>That's most edh decks. A format known for big bombs and splashy spells.
Only in metas without MLD where you can't be punished for ramping like an idiot. MLD makes more decks viable by giving the decks with lower curves an advantage. It doesn't prevent you from playing big flashy spells, it just means there's a cost to making a deck that's nothing but big flashy spells. It's like it's fucking balanced or something.

>>47507141
control decks can get their average cmc around that level and function well.

>>47506803
>>47507002
It's generally agreed that the best use of MLD is as a wincon, to be used judiciously, not whenever you have it.

It's a possible winstate for my Tariel deck, boardwipe, Tariel, no lands. I also need it to deal with 3-5 people in my playgroup who haven't learned >>47506877

>>47507182
They can but they keep their interaction cheap, for obvious reasons. The decks that suffer from MLD are the ones that are nothing but ramp and huge spells, like my (and I assume most others') Maelstrom Wanderer List.

And that's fine. In a multiplayer format where you can safely assume that before the game ends, there'll be at least one wrath and in all likelihood a vandalblast / back to nature effect, there's otherwise too big an incentive to focus on ramp exclusively in the early turns, unless you're playing goldfish combo.dek. Because you know anything you play out might get destroyed before it has a noteworthy impact on the game, whereas lands will stick around and give you a lasting advantage. It's good for the format that there can be a downside to that as well.

>>47506035
Cauldron Dance does sound hilarious, if a bit mana-intensive. Putting that into the shortlist, thank you!
I actually have a foil of another Sarkhan lying around but it's the Dragonspeaker, probably the least useful of the bunch if you're not going for a flavor win.
>>47506698
The three dragons you mentioned are all in there.
Conspiracy is cute, but I think I'd have to change too much to make it useful. For double strike I've got Atarka the Game Ender and for extra combats there's the brothers Savage Ventmaw and Hellkite Charger. I know I could just jam Scourge of the Throne in there, but I don't have one and I kinda like earning the extra combats through a janky combo.
I'm a bit wary of lairs because they slow down my turn-by-turn mana development. I'd definitely run them in decks with leaner mana curves though.

>>47507173
Seems like most meta's aren't mld oriented then according to edh rec.
As it should be.

>>47507188
>It's generally agreed that the best use of MLD is as a wincon, to be used judiciously, not whenever you have it.
I sometimes use MLD just to stop someone from winning immediately. If I know an opponent is going to be able to win next turn with counterspell backup due to having arbitrarily high amounts of mana, I'll gladly fire off an Armageddon if it it looks like no one else can stop it, even if I don't have a winning boardstate.

You often fire off wraths just to stop opponents from winning, based on the assumption you can turn the tide and gain the advantage with the time it buys you. It's reasonable to treat MLD the same way and I don't know why there's such a stigma attached to it. Just kidding, I know why there's a stigma attached to it, but the reasons are dumb.

>>47507266
Dragon speaker is definitely the weakest of the 4, his removal is ok. And his +does help with the dragon attack triggers.
Never got his emblem. Not sure if I'd want to.

>>47507317
>As it should be
Agreed. It makes my decks with MLD so much better when playing against randoms because no one is built to be able to play around, or recover from, a mass land destruction spell. MLD gets much worse when people expect it.

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so this is only the second Commander deck i've made and the first was far more standard. really want some feedback as to how to improve this. Should i nix the creatures entirely and put in the abyss and a bunch more enchants? Should i try to make room for retreat to Hagra. Should i try to add whip of erebos to get more out of my creatues? is gray merchant even worth it here? should i add some equips to try to get the win with teysa?

all help and recommendations appreciated

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/no-attacking-3/

>spend turns playing stuff
>proudly look over my board, it's full of cards, a lot more cards than anyone else at the table
>an opponent plays a card
>a lot of my cards go to the graveyard, I now have less cards than others
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS BULLSHIT IT'S SO UNFAIR

>>47507367
Isn't that like a fool me once type thing.

After you reveal your play style do they even allow you to play again?

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>>47507069
Yeah that definitely does not describe my or my playgroup's decks, haha. I'm trying to skew my mana curves towards the lower end as I tune them, but that's less because of MLD and more because of efficiency and speed. I'd probably be powerless against a deck from a MLD-infested meta, so I'm glad ours isn't one. And I don't plan on starting that arms race either.
>>47507354
Yeah he wasn't really made for commander. I did play him in standard though! Won me quite a few games on game day (without the ultimate).

Speaking of wrecking lands: Anyone know any versatile, multi-use spells that aren't too mana-intensive that can deal with annoying lands like Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm etc? Pic related is a candidate as it can also destroy artifacts, but ideally I'd have either something cheaper, or more flexible.

>>47507444
I imagine a play like that in such a meta would paint a target on the offending player's head for the next few games as well. Petty me sure would attack the guy first who blew up my lands two games ago.

>>47507444
>Isn't that like a fool me once type thing
Against good players, it should be but you'd be surprised how often players run face-first into shit like Ruination, even when they know it's coming and could very easily play around it by fetching a couple basics.
>do they even allow you to play again
I've seen players get upset at MLD but I've never had a group ban me for it. And generally, the more experienced players won't complain at all, first time I played against the best player at my LGS, his reaction upon losing was "Fuck, should have known to hold back some lands against Boros."

>>47502822
You have to be literally retarded not to know what they were supposed to be. Or your first game of EDH ever. Either way fuck off.

>>47505718
You right I think im gonna get kiora, and see what else I may want to switch out. Thanks senpai

>>47507448
Wrecking ball is decent.

>>47507614
RIGHT. I even have one left over from that MM15 draft! Thanks mate. Best get two; one for Scion, one for Rakdos. Both really like to attack.

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So I'm slowly starting to get bored by my deckbuilding habit of 'play big expensive scary monsters and attack with them', and I want to build something new. Which of these decks would you suggest I make next?
- Edric with not just evasive dudes for yourself, but also playing politics and giving opponents evasive dudes to wack each other (Hunted Troll seems like fun!)
- Toshiro Umezawa with mono black spells
- Mizzix with izzet spells
- Something that's black-green, maybe jund or abzan colors, centered around tokens and sacrificing stuff for value, but not the usual boring stuff like Prossh or Ghave.
- Something else that hasn't been done before a million times and is interesting and janky but not completely incompetent

>>47507781
Edric politics is a terrible idea. It's always correct to hit the Edric player, even when it's bad. It might cost you the game but you can't be the player who starts hitting anyone other than Edric.
Toshiro sounds sweet, it's a lot unlike any other decks I've played but I assume it would be extremely interactive, and that's a good point for me.

>>47507781
You could build Dralnu with Toshi in the 99

>>47507882
You have a point. And honestly, giving an opponent four cards needs a bigger payoff than just them hitting another opponent for four. But politicking sounds so fun, and in most games I'm Grima Wormtongue anyway...
>>47507914
Dralnu's not bad! Hits sorceries and gives access to blue. I'd rather build a cheap commander though. Many of mine cost 5 and that starts to get annoying the third time you cast them.
What are some win conditions in black or blue black spellslinger decks anyway? Yuge exsanguinates? Yuge Strokes of Genius? Some weird combo I can't wrap my dumb Timmy mind around?

>>47504826
wtf, I got a box for $270, why would you spend half of that for 8 packs.

>>47504875
I like Sek'Kuar. Bloodbond March is dope.

>>47507988
Bubbling Muck + Dralnu + Mirror of Fate + Vampiric Tutor/Doomsday + cantrip + Turnabout + Profane Command. Then find a way to return Profane back to your hand.

>>47507448
Helldozer? It's not cheaper, but it's fun.
Black also has a few more 3 CMC targeted destroys.

What colors are you in?

>>47507565
You're in the wrong, sorry.

>>47508265

Not the anon you are replying to, but you're saying the person who assumed he had cast several copies of Kobolds of Kher Keep from his hand, rather than assuming they were tokens as anyone who ever played against Prossh would, is in the right?

You're worse than the pls no bully, MLD is bad faggot sitting up this thread.

>>47508490
Shitting* damp autocorrect

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Cards you really want to play but that have a tendency to backfire badly in EDH.

>>47508490
You look at the cards laid out in front of me. How do you tell which are permanent cards I own?

>>47501719
Both sides are right and wrong. Any idiot should be able to know that a Kobold of Kher Keep is a token. But a card with a dice on it is a shitty way to represent 6 tokens, and it can get really confusing when you have other permanents in play with +1/+1 counters on them and you can't tel what's a counter and what's a "number-of-tokens" indicator.

Use multiple kobold of kher keep cards, problem solved.

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>>47501379
I really like this costum made token I use in my Marath edh deck, cause there weren't any other */* ones when I first looked for. Sadly I'm hardly using it but that might change, once I got a Thromok!

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>>47508530
this one for my Horde Of Notions deck. Great graveyard filler but might help enemy graveborn decks.

>playing 3 man game before I have to leave animazement and go home
>Damia (me), Derevi, Vorel
>vorel quickly puts out his commander and magistrate's scepter
>play Glissa Sunseeker to take care of it
>no shoes or protection, I had to tap out to play her but the scepter is already at 2, vorel takes infinite turns at 6, presenting a 2 turn clock
>his end step before my turn where I save the game from vorel ending it on the spot, derevi swords' Glissa
>ask if he knows how magistrate's scepter works, he says yes and he still wants to swords Glissa
Guess who won that game

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As afraid of cascading bans and bloat the Rules Council is, has anybody ever actually tried drafting a version of the banlist that is consistent? How bloated would it actually be?

It's really weird that T&N is legal, but Protean Hulk is banned. However, if you were to be consistent, how many more cards are there that make instant 1-card combos?

I think that cascading bans are a theoretical problem at most. You never know if they are going to be a problem until you put the list to paper and force consistency on the list. Consider the following card comparisons.
T&N vs Protean Hulk
Emrakul vs Iona
Yawgmoths Bargain vs Necropotence
Panoptic Mirror vs Deadeye Navigator (this one is a little stretched.)
Black lotus vs Mana Crypt
Erayo vs every other commander that has 1-card table wipe combos.

Would it make more sense to have a soft ban list? It doesn't make any sense to leave some cards off the list because "you're not supposed to abuse them" and then put other cards on because they are abusable. I would welcome a list of cards that said something like "these cards are miserable if you try to exploit them. Play nicely or you can't have these."

>muh self policing
>muh social format
Part of social interaction is the tension between being accommodating and not being a bitch. The way things are, I don't have any platform to stand on if I say that my Ib halfheart deck can't exist happily in the same format as Iona, no matter what I do.

>>47508679
Derevi, obviously

>>47508679
>>Damia (me), Derevi, Vorel
I threw up in my mouth a bit

>>47508733
The MTGS forums have tried to make a balanced banlist before but they couldn't get anywhere, that thread was a complete mess with any reasonable discussion being drowned out by shitters trying to make an even more casual banlist that banned all combos or all stax or anything else they don't like, and rules committee cocksuckers going "Why are you trying to do your own banlist, stop this, you can't do this, you're going to ruin EDH forever for everyone" because they assumed the "make your own houserules" philosophy promoted by the RC only applies when it's houserules they agree with.

Lesson from that experience is that the EDH playerbase is way too varied, stubborn and shitty for any such effort to lead anywhere.

>>47508679
I would have scooped and told him to have fun never having another turn.

>>47508733
I think it would be neat if commanders functioned on a points system. Shitty commanders have altered converted mana costs as predetermined by a rules list based on the tier they're at. You could leave the vast majority of things the same, just bump Iona up to 8cmc, or lower Urabask to 4. I think it could lead to a lot of complications, but it could also establish consistency for the value of certain abilities. I just feel that it's very obvious when some commanders are better than others, and people should be incentivized to play neat things.

>>47508818
French was able to make a variant banlist. It should be possible to make another variant list of the only goal is to be just like the original ban list, but without glaring inconsistencies.

How many cards are actually being omitted due to fears of a cascading banlist? If I had to make a wild guess, it would be less than ten cards. I would love to compile them in a shitty blog or something, but this experiment is only viable if the list doesn't bloat to hell like the RC predicted it would.

>>47508818
>because they assumed the "make your own houserules" philosophy promoted by the RC only applies when it's houserules they agree with.
But it's not only houserules the cocksuckers agree with: they don't even consider whether they agree with them, they just disagree on principle with making your own.

The RC are hypocrites too. If it's for you to make your own, why the huge deal over their own? Which is supposedly only advisory anyway? They know it isn't, that it carries more weight, and they act like they know it, but they still deny it.

The rules of the game should not be decided by the same people as any ban lists.

How does Boundless Realms work with Wort/Riku?
Do I get to triple my lands or quadruple?

>>47509055
The "make your houserules" line is just a cheap cop-out by the RC to not have to make consistent or balanced rules and bans. Houserules only end up working out if you always play with the same group of likeminded individuals. Most of the time, they're just an excuse for casuals at stores to ban anything that beat them the previous week.

That said, if a group of experienced players could approach the task of making a balanced banlist with a rational, mostly unbiased perspective, I'd like to see the results and I would sure as fuck play with that list. The problem was this was attempted, and no good players stepped up to push the project forward. the guys with valid points and good ideas had their posts squeezed in between one faggot saying anything with annihilator or infect should be banned, and one other poster saying that trying to balance the format is a worse affront to human decency than the holocaust.

>>47508733

protean hulk is much easier to abuse than tooth and nail

emrakul and iona arent anywhere close to the same level, you lost a shitload of credibility with this comparison

the difference between necropotence and yawg's bargain is absolutely massive

besides those 3 embarrassing mistakes, your other comparisons are reasonable

>>47509212
What a waste of a puppy

>>47509156
Oh yeah and the best parts of that thread
>"How are you going to prevent people from playing Kingmaker to push their friends ahead in tournaments?"
>That doesn't matter right now, we're not organizing tournaments, we're trying to make a better banlist.
>"You can't make a competitive banlist without first solving collusion!"
>That's the tournament organizers' problem, we're not organizing tournaments, now about that banlist
>"REEEEEEEEEEEE STOP TRYING TO TALK ABOUT THE BANLIST TALK ABOUT COLLUSION IN MULTIPLAYER I DON'T WANT YOU TO MAKE A BANLIST UNTIL YOU SOLVE THIS UNRELATED ISSUE"

Is Nekusar as boring to play as it looks? I wanted to make some beatdown variant, but it seems like the general strategy is to just force people to draw a shitload and discard a shitload to draw more cards.

I mean, if it's fun I'll throw one together, but I don't really want to play something that's going to piss people off and essentially be autopilot boredom for me.

>>47509352
I hear there are people who enjoy it but to me, it's exactly as boring as it sounds.

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>>47503438

>>47509212
Puppy why :( :(

>>47509212
None of the previous guys, but
>Sol Ring
>Mana Vault
>Mana Crypt
The existence of Mana Crypt specifically infuriates me to no end. It's basically the most broken card you could have, even moreso than sol ring, but whereas everyone has one of the latter, the former should have never been a real magic card and only the most dedicated, spendy freaks can afford it. It started as some weird book promo and later had a judge promo reprint, because of course only judges get the expensive cards. Now it's a hundred dollar card that literally separates the rich from the common folk in an undemocratic, unfair manner.

>>47509365
Thanks for the honesty, you rock. What do you find fun? Personally I had a lot of fun with a kruphix manaramp, but I'm looking to refine things a little more and play something fun.

>>47509396

mana crypt reprint tho

>>47509212
Worse than a glaring omission is a stupid addition.

>>47509352
The gameplan is pretty much on rails, and the real variation comes from the politics of it. How much longer until the other players just take their free card and kill my general again? How aggressively are they gonna swing at me? When do I start chaining wheels of fortune?
The more you play it, the more difficult it gets. If being an archenemy with a linear gameplan is your thing, go for it, but it does get boring for most people very quickly.
>>47509421
As a mythic in a limited print set with 10$ boosters. That sure worked for lowering Tarmogoyf's price!

So let's roll for EDH now

BG - 1
BR - 2
GU - 3
GW - 4
RG - 5
RW - 6
UB - 7
UR - 8
WB - 9
WU - 0

>>47509399
I like to play very interactive decks, where I have to care about everything my opponents are doing and huge my spot interaction to the best effect to be able to squeeze out a win.

For that reason I sort of hate ramp decks or solitaire combo decks, because both are basically just doing their thing while protecting themselves until they can do something bigger than what anyone else is doing. Nekusar is a bit like that, it's trying to go off in one turn so it's often seen just pillowforting, wrathing and tutoring until it reaches a critical mass.

If you like winning however, these decks are good. Interactive playstyles are inherently weaker in multiplayer, being able to do your own thing consistently generally wins out in the end.

>>47509447

>As a mythic in a limited print set with 10$ boosters. That sure worked for lowering Tarmogoyf's price!

tarmogoyf's starting supply and demand when it was reprinted in MM were much higher than mana crypts current supply and demand

mana crypts should have a much more significant price drop than tarmogoyf had

>>47509451
OK

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>>47509396
I'm sorry, I can't hear your complaints from atop my tower of Mana Crypts.

>>47509230
>>47509390
How long have you been vegetarians?

>>47509451
So Meren or Jarad

>>47509464
>and huge
*and use. I'd call that a really weird auto-correct but I'm on my PC. I might be drunk.

>>47508530
Man I love that art.

>>47509484
What's your estimate for a final price once it settles? Won't the (slightly!) increased availability also increase the demand for it?

>>47509464

i dont understand why "protecting themselves" and "pillowforting and wrathing" doesnt count as interacting

it seems like everybody who says stuff like this

>Interactive playstyles are inherently weaker in multiplayer

are just shit players who blame their own failings on the format

>>47509529

the thing is, even with a limited print run, the supply of mana crypts will not be only "slightly" increased, the original supply was so low that this represents a huge boost in supply

i expect the EMA mana crypt price to settle at like 60-70, which is pretty expensive but snapcaster is a card played in EDH and its spent a lot of time at that price point too

also mana crypt demand isnt going to go up all that much, not incredibly common to see in vintage, so its basically just EDH players who want mana crypt, and i doubt EMA is going to cause a huge influx of people trying to play EDH with expensive cards, maybe im offbase there

>>47509532
To go back to the example at hand, I consider decks like Nekusar less interactive because their core strategy isn't to interact in any way with their opponents, it's to disincentivize their opponents from interacting with them through pillowforting, and to sweep the board when things get out of hand. It's not wrong to do that, hell it's even pretty damn efficient when your opponents don't know to pressure your ass, it's just a playstyle I do not enjoy. If I can win a game by just sitting back and hoping no one notices me or messes with me too much, I won't feel good about that game.

To be clear, these decks are able to interact, but they do not SEEK to interact.

>>47509498
I'm not

But who puts a dog in with a Python? I bet it was China

>>47509700
What's so special about dogs when you're happy for mice to be fed to snakes and eat cows yourself?

>>47509732
Dogs are cuter and we're used to living and playing with dogs, so our brains react differently to violence on dogs. You probably don't mind watching a fish get decapitated but you'd mind if it was a woman that looked like your mother, even though both animals in that example are dumb as rocks.

>>47509732
I take it you've never actually had a pet that wasn't a fish

Or you're a sociopath

>>47507410
no responses huh, well i definitly want to find room for pillory of the sleepless and one thousand lashes if possible, also pariah seems like a no brainier ...maybe i better take out humility?

>>47509672

how on earth can you call a strategy that relies on WRATHING the board uninteractive?

also, literally every deck does better when its "sitting back and hoping nobody notices it or messes with it too much", if your opponents cant muster enough disruption to stop you, you win, thats magic, nothing to do with playstyles

i need an example of a deck that "seeks to interact" so i can understand the distinction you are making

in my mind there is no deck that "seeks to interact", in the sense that if your opponents do not play anything threatening enough to require your disruption, no matter what deck you're playing, the optimal strategy is to not disrupt them and gain advantage for yourself

every single deck wants to interact as little as possible

also

an example of a deck that is actually non-interactive, you can look at full dredge combo decks, and even those usually still run some counterspells to protect the combo

nekusar does not qualify

So, I've been tasked with creating a new banlist for our play group. Apparently, I've been voted as the most objective and impartial person in the group. Right now, my priority list looks like this:

>Ante cards, and anything that requires manual dexterity.
>Power Nine
>Turn 0/1 mana rocks
>Other cards on a case by case basis

Is this a good idea? Bad idea? Are there any group of cards I should take a look at before or along with these? Am I an idiot for undertaking this task in the first place?

>>47509871
Bad idea

>>47509772
That's sexist and offensive. Just because women are less intelligent than men doesn't make them the same as dumb animals.

>>47509871

if somebody in your playgroup has a timetwister you should let them play it, otherwise yeah, your priorities are in order

but really what separates a good banlist from a bad one is the section

>other cards on a case by case basis

those cards will make or break your banlist so your "priorities" dont really matter

>>47509833
I get that you got triggered by someone calling your pet decks less interactive than others but you have to understand that I'm not calling you a shit player for enjoying that.

I really don't feel like explaining to you how a deck filled with spot interaction and that uses the combat step is more interactive than one that builds a pillowfort, wraths when needed and combos off when it can. Neither requires more or less skill to play, but the degree of interaction is different. There's no reason to get mad over that, let alone try to argue that this somehow isn't true.

>>47509896
I wasn't talking about women, I was talking about his mother. In a very roundabout way because it was a woman that looked like his mother but if I used his actual mother he could have gone "hurr durr of course i care more its me mum".

>>47509906
Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. Mostly I'd like to focus on cards that break the game on a fundamental level. Like, even though I have irrational hate of some cards (Looking at you Curse of Predation) I'm trying to keep opinions out of it.

Like, Limited Resources. Is this really a card that should be banned? I see it as a card that gives mono W decks tools to deal with Gxx ramping.

>>47509896
sneaky sneaky

>>47509990

>I really don't feel like explaining to you how a deck filled with spot interaction and that uses the combat step is more interactive than one that builds a pillowfort, wraths when needed and combos off when it can.

nice misleading language here. nekusar only wraths "when needed", you say, but your favorite deck is "filled" with spot removal

i just dont like your attitude, you and people like you. people who have a "playstyle" are scum, they think their opinions matter but they have no basis because they only see things from one perspective

if you havent played every kind of deck then you're going to have retarded opinions, case in point, you

>>47510070
Have fun making wrong assumptions, building a strawman and arguing against it then. I have some goldfish combo decks, I even have stax decks, but I prefer decks that generate more interaction. You don't honestly believe that every deck is equally interactive so I really don't know what you're trying to argue right now.

>>47510008

limited resources is busted as all hell

in a perfect world a monowhite player uses it to catch up on mana after a green player ramps

in the real world, the oppressive esper artifact deck has a 1 mana enchantment that can lock everybody out of playing lands as early as turn 3

>>47501538
>relatively knew player

Players like those are a diamond dozen.

>>47510099

i never said each deck was equally interactive, im criticizing your understanding of interaction, which for some reason excludes board wipes for no good reason except that your favorite deck doesnt run a lot of board wipes

Is there a way to counter the "draw a card" part of Gwafa's bribery ability? I want to bribe all the big threats and make sure people don't draw into answers

>>47510165

spirit of the labyrinth

>>47510165
Omen Machine, but that kinda fucks you over too though

Maybe Possessed Portal? Or Shared Fate if you want to get REALLY crazy

>>47510129
Even my aggro decks run boardwipes, the difference is in the numbers and in how they're used to further the deck's game plan. What I dislike about pillowfort combo decks or goldfish combo decks is that they're trying as hard as possible to not care about what the opponents are playing. The pillowfort exists to try to be left alone, the wraths are played to stop things from getting out of hand so they have more time to do their own things and set up for the win. There's a much smaller range of things opponents do that threaten your gameplan, you can sometimes watch an entire turn go by without anything happened that forces you to rethink your strategy for the coming turn. Decks that play to the board and run more spot interaction as opposed to pillowfort cards and wraths have to be more proactive and have more decisions to make on how they're going to use their interaction.

And again, to be clear and to hopefully lower your dangerous high sodium levels, I'm not saying either playstyle is bad. I'm saying I prefer more interactive playstyle. It is perfectly fine if you like to pillowfort and combo, the burden is on others to force you to interact and if they don't, they're the ones to blame.

>>47510165
Zur's Weirding might actually be a neat card to try, if you're going the politics route

>>47510219

>What I dislike about pillowfort combo decks or goldfish combo decks is that they're trying as hard as possible to not care about what the opponents are playing

we're just retreading the same ground here, this is a stupid way of thinking, and im struggling to understand how somebody who's actually played combo or pillowfort could think this

but im not going to get through to you so ill just say im sorry for getting mad at you and saying mean things, you were more polite than me, have a good day

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>Always used to think Oros was the worst planar drain.
>Realize I can give him deathtouch and lifelink.
>Realize I can play Repercussion to deal even more damage.
>Realize I can use that scythe equipment to essentially blink my opponents' creatures to my board.
>Mfw

>>47510272
>we're just retreading the same ground here, this is a stupid way of thinking, and im struggling to understand how somebody who's actually played combo or pillowfort could think this
By playing pillowfort and combo, seeing an opponent do something of no consequence to me, thinking "Oh cool I don't have to care about that thing", and noticing this happens a lot more often than when I'm playing an aggro or midrange deck.

>>47510283

nice, oros is pretty dope

also how could ever think oros was worse than dromar, who bounces himself

>>47510301
Darigaaz is really the worst dragon if we're being real.

>>47501675
>Asian guy

Goddammit Siew Wong stop perpetuating a stereotype!

>>47509593
Every Kozilek player has been waiting for the chance to bot spend 150 on Mana Crypt. I think it'll drop but certainly not settle at 60, maybe higher.

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>its wrong to use infect in commander
>but combo for infinite turns is fine

I am getting sick of my group's bullshit. It always ends up becoming archenemy even when I'm not a threat and if everyone wastes their removal on me I get blamed for the other winning despite getting my boardstate fucked. Time to take a break from all this shit guys.

>>47510283
>Black
>White

You get access to the best aura, equipment and general tutors too. And silly shit like Thundermaw Hellkite.

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>Smoke, Winter Orb and Caverns of Despair all out by the end of my turn
>everyone just scoops

Why aren't you playing mono-red control, /edh/?

>>47509451
Next deck is

>>47510596

tough luck pal

>>47510522
Infect is such a weak strategy I still can't get over the fact it makes people mad.

>>47510591

winter orb is the only one of those cards that even effects me in the slightest

but winter orb is really good for sure

>>47510612
Fuck me.

>>47510615
Believe me my group does. I get called an asshole for playing infect cards, but it is ok for kalitas to constantly tutor for boardwipes and stax, oloro to reanimate sun titan constantly, or sen triplets to combo infinite turns with spell sieve.

>>47508536
Reigning in your autism would probably be a good first step.

>>47510653

im seeing stax in your future

>>47510630
I guess I lucked out. Two guys were playing weenies (Krenko and Odric 1.0) and another guy was playing Mayael fatty rush

>>47510681

krenko and odric definitely have a tough time vs smoke

i think mayael could've tried to play it out though, he should have a bane of progress in his deck

depends on what else you had going with the stax effects, if you had some kind of card draw engine with it, its harder to stop

>>47509451
Oh I'm fucking rolling.

>>47509451
Rolling for pure shit

>>47510733
I'm in mono-red, not much in the way of draw engines. I'm considering Tamiyo's Journal though

Next game I played the same deck, got Smoke and Caverns out but not Winter Orb and was getting hammered away at in retaliation for last game, but then out came Hidetsugu with a Mass Hysteria on the field, played Bolt, targeted some fatty and played Arcbond, dropped everyone down to odd life, used Hidetsugu and flashed in Dictate of the Twin Gods

Everyone was very mad. This deck is fun.

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>>47510786
Ask and ye shall receive

>>47506803
I'm going to nuke lands if 1) someone vomits their whole landbase on the table on turn 5 to punish them.
2) For protecting my gameplan and minimize the disruption while I combo off or am able to recover.
I'm never nuking the lands if there's nothing on the field on my side or opponent's side, as most of the people I play with aren't immature enough to whine about LD, but I sure am not that kind of retard that I would do it just because.
The game never goes well with those, and whenever someone says or tries armageddon on empty field, I'm going to use all of my resources to fuck them over.
Feelbad cards can be played smartly, and not including them might be a bad idea in some cases.

>>47510806

sounds like a fun deck man keep it up

>>47509451

Fuck it rolling

>>47507444
I have not once met so salty people that outright ban you for MLD. Denial is a viable strategy, and MLD isn't as bad as having everything you do countered. Counter-focused decks never get any shit, why is that?

>>47510283
Fuck man. You may have given me a contender for my next deck. Oros is mardu right?

>>47510165
Imagine if you could play notion thief with him

>>47510906
They do get shit however. Casuals will complain about anything they still haven't learned to play around or deal with.

>>47510906
Because lands are considered the sacred untouchable thing that no other player is allowed to touch. Targeted LD is seen as toeing the line, and MLD is most certainly not kosher

>>47511061

thats funny cuz id much rather play against armageddon than strip mine

>>47511024
You could in Esper, with both of them in the 99

That'd be pretty bonkers wit him as the general though

>>47508823
I could tell the kind of casual players they were by the fact that vorel was playing wrong, it took him like 5 turns to figure out how to go infinite with it so I kept him in check as much as possible (bouncing the scepter, removing vorel)
When he finally figured it out he asked if he should play it out or leave the game. I voted to play it out, derevi thought he should scoop so he decided that he would scoop so that we could keep playing and the Derevi player scooped too because I had about 30 power of worm tokens from a cloned Creakwood Liege

>>47511046
Funnily enough, new players NEVER complain about MLD. Every time someone nukes lands, they just say "okay" and piles up the lands in grave.
But yeah, people should play mana rocks in every deck anyway. It's just irritating that they get mad for a good strategy and never even consider the option to make them not fold to it.
In the opposite end is the other retards who fold to back to basics and the like, because they think that basics are awful and should never be played in EDH. I'm actually thinking that I should stack my deck every time so that I could have BtB in my opening hand or in the beginning until my friend learns to put basics in. I'm not a fan of cheating, but he will never learn the importance of them any other way.

>>47511085
Strip Mine is totally fair though. Especially with Crucible and with cards that allow you to play more lands per turn.

>>47510165
Gwafa is cool. There's way better UW legends for control decks, but that ability is neat and flavorful as fuck. I actually built a pillowfort/group hug deck with him a while back that just drew shitloads of cards for the table, and it was TERRIBLE, I'm never playing group hug again

My group is low-power enough where I could probably have a decent shot at retooling it to a control/staxy shell

>>47511164
Do
>run more nonbasic hate
Don't
>cheat like a faggot

>>47511061
I think MLD is a tricky thing. It makes you look like a dick and if you do it just to do it for "lolchaos" reasons, maybe you are a dick

But if one player is ramping like a retard, then it's worth drawing some ire from the rest of the table to slow him down enough to give you and the other guys a change. Alternately, if you know you can lock down the game and win by dropping a Bust, do it

>>47511261
But I run already maximum amount I can in a monoblue deck.

>>47511217
Strip Mine locks are the best locks.
>>47511085
I really like the strategic implications of Strip Mine, especially against UGx decks. You're rarely playing your Strip Mine and just hitting them with it for -1 overall mana. It's something you keep up to make it extremely hard for them to hold up sufficient mana. You can be under the tightest Forbid lock and still be able to get them with EoT shatter their Chromatic Lantern, Strip Mine a blue source, drop a Tec Edge and blow up another blue source.

I've sometimes dropped Strip Mine turn 1, never used it and still felt like I won because of it because I was always forcing my opponent to hold up extra mana which slowed them down.

>>47511343

i just dont like strip mine, its a bullshit card

not overpowered, especially in multiplayer

its just gay like all the homos that play it

>>47511325
Run more tutors then. Cheating is never the answer.

>>47511085

>playing EDH yesterday as Based Rhino Man
>opening hand is crucible, flooded strand, and strip mine among others (Stonehorn Dignitary)
>be tempted to just sit there, strip mining everything while bouncing out Stonehorn to pillowfort
>didn't and ended up using strip mine as a source of colorless and keep using Flooded Strand as my land drop while drawing zero fucking lands
>sat there piling up loyalty on Venser blinking out Swagthrusk

I won because Mistmeadow Witch is fucking retarded.

>>47511370
You should give it a chance, it's pretty interactive

>>47509113
nope, it just happens then happens again

>>47509451
rolling

>>47509113

you quadruple

>>47511426

boundless realms doubles the number of lands you have. if it "happens, then happens again", youve quadrupled your lands, you dingus

>>47511486
oh shit I was thinking that other card where you Sac and search. my bad.

>>47511545

scapeshift?

yeah ive always wanted to see somebody play that in edh but i havent seen it yet

i think the fact that you cant run multiple valakut and you cant kill even a single player with one scapeshift makes it kinda weak

has great art tho

>>47509451
Rolling Out

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>RotE Linvala is $50
But why

>>47511581
Scapeshift goes in Titania decks. It's pretty fucking scary there.

>>47511651

oh right right

and then i suppose the git gud froggo wouldnt mind scapeshift either

MLD isn't hated by anybody except players that feel like they are entitled to running 50 cards with a CMC of 5 or higher. After armageddon resolves, you still have your other permanents, your hand, and your graveyard. If it doesn't take you more than a few turns to start making plays, you're the problem.
Behold, the greentext
>playing binder rummage ruhan of the fomori with no staples and mostly basic lands.
>out of box derevi precon to my left
>Karador deck with a ridiculous amount of money cards to my right.
>play armageddon.
>precon player happily scoops up his lands, keeps a few rocks in play. He plays one land from hand and starts playing 2-4 drop creatures every turn.
>karador was trying to set up a living death for alesh norn, craterhoof, avacyn, and skithyrix. Loudly complains that he can't play the game anymore.
>derevi beats him down with commons for a few turns.
>karador gets to 6 mana, he casts living death
>Venser it back to his hand.
>he picks up his cards and tells us we are being shitheads.

The threat of games actually having disruption is one of the things that keeps ridiculously loaded "casual" decks in check. I guess We were supposed to just bend over and take it when he went full greedy jew with his deck and his strategy in the game. God forbid you have some discipline with your low drop and interactive spells. You can't fucking politic your way out of a beatdown when you telegraph yourself that loudly and show zero self control.

Anyone made a dat boi gitrekt monster alter yet?

Id play it

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>Play 1 tainted strike as a sutprise fuck you card in my memeoplasm deck with no infect creatures

"You fucking infect playing cunt"

> mfw

My niggas

What are some good cards that do bad things to people during my upkeep? Stuff like Martial Law, gotta be in UW

>>47511801

world queller

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Playing shattergangbang brothers jund infect/LD at my lgs, if at least one person doesnt scoop soon as i sit down im not doing it right

>>47511684
I once had an opponent complain that my MLD kept him from casting Time Stretch while he had E. Witness in hand to do it again.

And he wasn't saying it like "Good thing you had some MLD because I would have wrecked you." It was "I was about to do an awesome thing and you stopped me with your bullshit, MLD is so fucking unfun"

I just don't know man. I get salty about UGx casting 26 mana worth of spells a turn, so I get the tools necessary to stop them from doing that. They get salty about me stopping them, so they complain.

>>47511871
Oh, man, almost like they could run some counterspells to protect their shit or whatever.

Good on ya, they'll either learn and git gud or not and be little bitches.

>>47511854
That honestly sounds jank as hell, and decks that aren't extremely greedy should be able to still operate. God bless your efforts to piss off players that have mythic grab bag decks. I can already taste the tears.

>fucking cystbearer. It's a good thing you play unfair strategies or I would time stretch with jin gitaxias and OWN you.

>>47509871
>rocks
Are you going to ban ramp spells too? Turn one counters? Turn one creatures? Turn one enchantments?

>>47512032

Umm

Are you seriously implying fast mana is equal to other 1 drops?

>>47511918
To be fair, eternal witness and time stretch is an extremely powerful combination. The problem is less
"he should run and even more powerful and resilient strategy"
and more like
"if he's already doing something this over the top he shouldn't complain that a card that stops him is unfair. It's a hypocritical and ego-centric stance on what is or isn't going to make for a fun game.

>>47512050
People shouldn't complain that cards are unfair

End of story

>>47512002
Maximum salt when you blight mamba someone to death

"Dude if you didnt stop destroying my white sources i would have got to 4 mana and i would have totally wrath of god away your snake"

>>47512032
Because everything that comes out on turn 1 is completely the same? There's really no difference in power level between a Savannah Lion and a Sol Ring, right?

So, I've been trying to shift my R artifact goodstuff deck into a more stax ld list for a lot less bombs and more taxation and winter orb effects and I've had some trouble making everything run smoothly and i have a few questions.

How many tap effects should I have in my deck for Winter Orb/Storage Matrix ect.

With all the tap/untap effects can I run Howling Mine and tap it to generate card advantage for just myself?

>>47512069
You have to draw the line somewhere in order to not have 99 card vintage highlander. The resulting format might be fun or interesting for players who want the vintage experience, but it's miserable for players that are looking for an escape from those kinds of games.

>>47512069
Some cards are unfair. But none of the cards in that scenario were.

>>47512046
Every single archetype, card type, color, playstyle and deck has amazing one-drops available. By focusing on artifact ramp you're fucking over lots of strategies just because you yourself don't like them. If you can't handle it, git gud or stop playing.

>>47512122

I don't count the banlist as complaining

Once you agree to play a format with a given rule set, complaining about the rules makes you a fag

Also if you're not willing to critically examine the banlist as a whole and come up with your own, you're also a fag if you complain about specific cards, regardless of the above

>>47512097
Sure, there's meh one drops. That's not really a fair comparison.
Compare sol ring with exploration, fastbond, llanowar elves, mystic elf, etc...

>>47512144

There are lots and lots of artifact ramp cards that aren't named sol ring and mana crypt

I'm not the guy who suggested banning "turn 0-1 mana rocks", I'm just criticizing your fucktarded argument that there's some sort of slippery slope that we must ban Savannah lion because we banned sol ring

If you're point is that something like mana vault, which is technically a turn 1 mana rock, shouldn't be banned, then I agree, but I'm pretty sure the other poster obviously meant sol ring and mana crypt

>>47512179

Fastbond is banned because it's broken

None of those other cards is anywhere near the level of sol ring and I don't know why you're trying to pretend they are

>>47512179
>Exploration
Ramps but does not generate mana
>Fastbond
Banned
>Mana dorks
Top fucking kek

>>47512144

>implying sol ring and mana crypt are part of an "archetype" or "strategy" and not degenerate auto includes in every single deck

Deliberate obfuscation of the discussion

>>47512097
There is a huge amount of power difference between savannah lion and sol ring. There is also a huge amount of power difference between goblin guide and shock, but zoo-ey dorks are just inherently less valuable in a multiplayer 40 life melee, so the shock might end up being more useful at some point.

The thing about fast mana is that it is never very strong when below a certain level of impact. Elvish spirit guide is a poor value card when it lets you play a grizzly bears on turn 1. Storm/ad nauseam/all in decks need a critical mass of enablers or else they are filled with a bunch of sup-par cards.

This is why i personally have a huge problem with the mana crypt debate. The unholy mess of fast mana rocks that exists in 99 card vintage enables a completely different kind of gameplay than the presence a lone sol ring has in a modified $34.99 deck.

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>edh
>not playing Gxx
>not playing at least half a dozen 1 or 2cmc "destroy artifact/enchantment" spells
>what sol ring?
>mfw

>>47512268

>The unholy mess of fast mana rocks that exists in 99 card vintage enables a completely different kind of gameplay than the presence a lone sol ring has in a modified $34.99 deck.

It's all relative though

When each player is playing a shit deck, sol ring is even MORE busted because it puts them 2 turns ahead AND their opponents don't have the high power cards needed to beat somebody 2 turns ahead of you

Sol ring is both busted in that it enables broken stuff on turns 1 and 2 and also the gap between it and other mana ramp options available to casual players is way too big

>>47512268
Most of the non-Sol Ring or Mana Crypt rocks come with non-negligible downside or generate less mana. I'm not sure what the other poster is advocating when he says he'd ban turn 0-1 mana rocks. Would he ban shit like the legal moxen? Lotus Petal? I'd disagree with that, these cards are powerful in the right archetype but they're not warping the format. Plus, it is important for decks that want to ramp in the early turns to have tools like that. But Ring and Crypt, they're not enabling any specific archetype, they go in every deck because they're just that ridiculously powerful.

>>47512165

Nothing personnel kid, but discussing the fairness of a card is functionally identical to proposing a new banlist with one more card on it.

If i have an Ib Halfheart deck and you have a abzan deck with Iona in it, we are not going to have a very interesting game of magic unless I jam every inefficient colorless removal ever printed in my deck. Even then, the game is probably going to be shitty.

The EDH ban list has a lot in common with a recipe. You can read a Marinara Sauce recipe that says "add Oregano to taste" and say
"See? this recipe is shit because I can add as much Oregano as I want. I can play all of my Oregano at once, and they HAVE to eat it!"

Common sense dictates that the recipe isn't the problem here. The ban list is NOT a competitive guideline.

>>47512350
>>47512331
>>47512268
>>47512208

Man, I didn't think it would be that much of an issue. I'm the banlist guy, and what I meant by Turn 1 Mana Rocks was Crypt, Sol Ring, pretty much any rock that any deck can run without much consequences. I've seen, played in, and won many games where that mana advantage outright wins the game. The difference between one players t1 Sol ring, and the other players land-pass is huge. They're format warping because everyone crams them into every deck without thought, because everyone else is running them, why not you?

This is the definition of a card that should be banned.

>>47512457

>If i have an Ib Halfheart deck and you have a abzan deck with Iona in it, we are not going to have a very interesting game of magic unless I jam every inefficient colorless removal ever printed in my deck. Even then, the game is probably going to be shitty.

why though?

your ib halfheart deck is presumably a goblin aggro deck. so surely you didnt plan on winning against ANY deck that makes it to 9 mana to cast Iona

Iona might be the worst thing you can think of because youre a mono color deck but youre not going to win against any 9-10 mana plays as a goblin deck, your strategy is to win before that

>Nothing personnel kid, but discussing the fairness of a card is functionally identical to proposing a new banlist with one more card on it.

right thats my point, thats what makes you a fag, you havent really examined the banlist if you think you can just pick a card you dont like and add it to the banlist

Hey how do y'all feel about putting Mental Misstep in a blue deck to counter t1 sol rings? Lategame it can still negate skullclamps, paths, swords, brainstorms... Anyone play it?
>>47512495
I agree.
>>47509451
Rolling.

>>47512548
Blue red. I could go get that Mizzix precon. Or I could think of something fun with Nin. Any cool stuff with Nin that isn't too cliché? I think I like that idea. Finally building around a 2cmc commander that is sweet.

>>47512457
>not running duplicant, oblivion stone, and karn in monocolors
Wew

>>47512548

its not bad but its one of those cards thats easy to cut

hard to keep situational cards in your list if you cant even fit all the broad-utility cards you want

i wouldnt criticize somebody for running it but i cant see myself putting it in any of my decks

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>>47504363

>>47512331

A game where one player getting their sol ring is strong enough where they can easily win a 3v1 only happens in 99 card vintage.

The tempo gain of a sol ring is very powerful, but it's also very volatile. So you get to play a 4-drop on turn 2. That creature could end up eating a doom blade, or maybe you get to attack with it next turn and bring a player down to woop-de-doo 37 life. Maybe the board gets cluttered and you lose your motivation to attack because forcing a sakura tribe elder chump block isn't worth opening yourself up.

Sol ring should really only be considered a two-turn advantage if every deck is just trying to race for the win using ad nauseam tendrils types of decks.

>>47512548
Pic related

The butthurt is real

>>47512694

you're not thinking clearly

if sol ring isnt destroyed (i never said its auto-win, you can destroy it), its not just a 4 drop on turn 2, its a 5 drop on turn 3, etc, and sol ring combines with other ramp spells too

they could be playing an 8 drop on turn 4 using no uber-competitive "vintage" cards outside of sol ring

sol ring is always a 2 turn advantage until its destroyed

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>>47512750
Derp

>>47512594

>I didn't spend $100 on 4 cards for my removal suite for my ib deck, but thanks for the suggestion. In the meantime, it doesn't look like this will be very fun for either of us. Hey look, there is a competitive table over there, they might be better equipped to deal with Iona. I'll be over there playing a silly goblin. I play this format to take a break from grinder culture anyway. Later man.

Outside of 4chan, normal conversations don't have winners or losers.

>>47512457
>The EDH ban list has a lot in common with a recipe. You can read a Marinara Sauce recipe that says "add Oregano to taste" and say
First the banlist was a country band, after that it was an Arrested Development script, next a sci-fi movie, and now it's a marinara recipe. Make up your damn mind Sheldon.

>>47512831

iona is a casual card though

if people are reanimating it in the early turns that can be tough but the competitive part was getting into and out of the graveyard quickly

>>47512694
There are precons that can completely run away with the game just from a T1 Sol Ring.

Not budget competitive lists.

Not casual decks

Precons.

>>47512831
Iona isn't competitive, family. I was just suggesting some removal options that deal with her.

Duplicant is like a dollar rare, beeteedubs

>>47512694

youve got it exactly backwards

99 card vintage decks are prepared to deal with opposing sol rings, and they all have their own broken ramp packages to match

its casual mediocre decks that get an incomparable boost from sol ring

>>47513008
It was between 8-10$ when I got mine, I can't imagine it being much lower now unless it got a reprint.

>>47513029
Buying a Mirrodin booster box when the set was new never fails to pay off. Even crap I've never really used like Duplicant is just conveniently here when I need it.

And no, no recent reprint, but it's in Eternal Masters, so it'll go down.

>>47509352
nekuzar is great because its as strong as you need a deck to be, you can gimp it or buff it easily and it really becomes a nice politics engine. If you play with people who go full retard on targeting then youre better off with different grixis options.

>>47513029
Ew, really? I got it for like fifty cents back when I started playing EDH.

>>47513129
>but it's in Eternal Masters, so it'll go down.
uh

>>47513021
That hasn't been my experience. The sol ring in a precon or 10% loaded deck ends up being spent a creature that gets chump blocked, spent on a mana sink or guildmage activation, or gets drowned out in noise as the difference between having 10 mana and 12 mana becomes less significant compared to other factors.

The only time I've ever seen sol ring win as archenemy was when I was fucking around with teferi. Turn 1 island sol ring mind stone. Turn 2 island merchant scroll for high tide, then chain veil. Turn three high tide draw my deck win. Sol ring was absolutely key to that series of events happening, but I also had a critical mass of fast mana available.

When I drew sol ring in another game, I ended up with curves like t2 fact or fiction, turn 3 stitcher geralf, and turn 4 frost titan. It was a strong curve, but that's all it was. A ended up getting a few attacks in I wouldn't normally be able to do. The funny thing is that I lost that game. I won't blame sol ring, and sol ring definitely helped my attempt to win. It just so happens that a four player game that goes to the tenth turn is very volatile. Imagine that helix pinnacle is not a perfect metaphor for how mana is converted into winning a game.

>>47505174
Could be good fun in a RB deck if you have gravepact up!

>>47513420

if stitcher geralf and frost titan were your best plays, then you had a bad draw outside of sol ring

first of all frost titan is just not that good in multiplayer. secondly stitcher geralf is not a good card in any format. and thirdly, neither of those cards are at their best when you drop them on an emtpy board and have no guaranteed follow up

>hurr look at this anecdote of sol ring not being used effectively, that means sol ring isnt broken

>>47512620
I like you

>>47513029
still is between 8-10 though, where did you find it for a dollar?

>>47513627
I was playing the precon that game. the point was comparing a godly opening with a more explosive list with a moderate opening in a $34.99 deck.

There is no question that sol ring is very powerful. It's among the highest win percentage cards in competitive pods. There are users in this thread that are arguing that the sol ring results in more runaway games in a 10% loaded/precon meta than a competitive meta, and my experience has been the opposite.

>>47513850

they were probably thinking of other precon decks, the mono blue precon deck was notoriously shit out of the box

but even so, that deck is still capable of taking advantage of sol ring better than geralf frost titan

casting planeswalker teferi on turn 4 is huge

>>47512620
I don't get it. You would just kill all their creatures and most of yours.

>>47513978
The sol ring debate gets pretty exhausting when it runs in a circle that goes a little like

>Sol ring is broken
>but what about low powered games
>sol ring is even more broken there
>I've experienced the opposite
>You didn't get the god draw while under no pressure.

If competitive pods want to push away from sol ring and crypt to decrease variance, that's cool. It just seems like the CEDH people are being disingenuous because they don't want to splinter off from the sheldon list.

>>47501379
>rarity shifts for overpriced uncommons to rares because of the secondary market
>junk mythics worth less then 3 dollars
>shitty commons and uncommons
Well boys maybe next year we will get a better mm set because I think I will just buy the two cards I actually need from the set as singles

>>47514161

this cycle could end if one person would step back and realize that their anecdotes of sol ring not auto-winning the game arent a real argument

>If competitive pods want to push away from sol ring and crypt to decrease variance, that's cool.

lets step back for a moment. if everybody is playing precons, the banlist doesnt matter at all. the games will always be shitshows that come down to luck and nobody is going to play any broken cards besides sol ring

having not shit decks doesnt make your meta "competitive". you dont have to have a competitive deck to blow everybody out with sol ring, your deck only has not to be complete and utter garbage

you're basically saying everybody who doesnt agree with you that sol ring is fine is some sort of spike thats playing a different game than you. there is way more variation in the power level of decks and metas than that

>It just seems like the CEDH people are being disingenuous because they don't want to splinter off from the sheldon list.

i think you're the one thats being disingenuous but i dont know why. you've come up with these stupid anecdotes to defend sol ring, and you're making ridiculous generalizations about the people who play edh, also you're making very disingenuous arguments in this very post im replying to, like this straw man right here

>You didn't get the god draw while under no pressure.

as if thats the only way sol ring is broken. sol ring benefits you the same amount in every game that you have enough cards to use that mana, just because you can come up with a scenario where somebody uses that mana to no avail doesnt mean sol ring wasnt broken, it means that that person would have been completely and utterly out of the game without sol ring and it totally saved their shit draw

>>47513813
I didn't, I was responding to the guy saying it was a dollar rare because that was wrong based on what I knew.
>>47513850
Sol Ring can lead to runaway games in any game where it comes down turn 1 and isn't answered shortly, assuming the draw isn't horrible. I think the argument the other anon was trying to make about it being more manageable in competitive is that it's more likely to be answered in competitive.

I'm not sure I agree with that anon since you have to consider that a competitive deck is going to milk a lot more value out of the ring a lot more quickly and possibly go off before the answers become available. Your mileage may vary, I'd say one thing that's been a constant for me is that an unanswered turn 1 Sol Ring is generally absolutely disgusting.

>>47512620
>No Charisma
Aw shit nigga, what are you doing?

File: SouthernEnglishGentleman.jpg (7KB, 191x200px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 191x200px

MORE LIKE LOL RING AM I RITE!!!!!!!!!

File: 143.jpg (54KB, 312x445px) Image search: [Google]

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What happens if someone swings the lumber at me, I drop a Turn to Frog on the biggest fatty swinging, and then use this? Do they all become 1/1 Frogs?

I know Polymorphist's Jest does the same thing but I'm just asking out of curiosity

>>47515053
They stay a copy of the original creature due to layering rules. It's similar to how creatures with */* power and toughness interact with cards like giant growth. The temporary effect goes on TOP of the characteristic defining effect, but does not replace it.

If the card said "each other creature becomes a copy of target nonlegendary creature PERMANENT, they would become frogs, because the wording would be referring to the creature's current state and not the card.