Warhammer 40k General

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First for Raven Guard

Next for OMG FUCKING MOLDLINES ON 50 GUARDSMEN PANTS!

I envy the Space Marines, whose flash is easy to trim.

>>47477360
Worst first founding chapter.

>>47477430
I think you failed spelling 'Best'

>>47477441
Best at getting their chapter master killed, sure.

>>47477381
Ha ha

>>47477430
All the founding chapters kind of suck.

Abaddon takes Terra, estates himself as the new Emperor, kills off the dusty old one, and uses his chaotic powers to replace the astronomicon for ships loyal to him. The chaos gods do not simply erase the galaxy with the emperor dead.

What happens?

>>47477497
Age of the Emperor.

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>>47477471
Severax was an unfortunate case.

>>47477482
Found the Taufag.

>>47477482
Anon, did you forget the broest of bros? How could you forget that the Salamanders are a thing? Who doesn't love them?

>>47477471
Their Chapter Master is now MURDERWINGS, and will always be MURDERWINGS. I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of 12 attacks on the charge.

And besides, everyone knows that Severax made the mistake of trying to fight a Mary Sue in melee.

>>47477331
Why do you keep using random artwork for the OP image. You can share them in the thread, but the Header Images exist for a reason.

>>47477521
Orks actually. I just think the successor and later founding chapters tend to be more interesting.

Typical Dorn-fag

>>47477430

You mean the Dangels? First is worst.

a few of their disgraces

>caught torturing one of their own heretic fallen by the Crimson Sabers who promptly gun down a good number of the Dangels and give good thrashing causing them to flee the sector

>The Crimson Sabers now the Crimson slaughter launch an attack on the Dark Angels then brutally massacre killing every single Dark Angel in this sector and stealing their geneseed plus butchering their recruiting world

>were beguiled by a minor demonic entity into trying to destroy a loyal founding legion because the logic of "we found a wolf bolter next to these poorly trained dead Dangels, therefore we have to murder them all" seemed logical to their retarded chapter master

Honestly, first has always meant worst.

>>47477539
Keeps phone filth out and stops shitposting.

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>>47477482

>>47477576
Aha! Found Carnac!

Where's my prize?

>>47477539
All variants of the macro image are skub and lead to excessive discussion of the OP image. Even in its absence we are still talking about it.

>>47477538
>everyone knows that Severax made the mistake of trying to fight a Mary Sue in melee.

Severax made the mistake of being a space marine, a race of creature who are only capable of exactly one strategy which they execute in every single battle forever, and that strategy is "zerg the commander".

This is a strategy that works against every other faction, even the otherwise adaptable Tyranids (muh synapse). But it doesn't work against Tau (muh greater good) but even if it did work all it takes is one person having a body double, and that person could defeat the combined forces of the enter galaxy's space marines.

>>47477598
Crimson slaughter are cool and wolves are getting what was coming to them for a long time. Best legion.

Did I say that last bit out loud?

>>47477613
>carnac
>playing the game
pick one

I personally think that the Stormsurge's main gun should have a range of 200".

>>47477604
>Keeps phone filth out and stops shitposting.

There are people who don't use the search function?

You can literally add "40k" to the URL and get right here.

>>47477604
Not him, but I'm usually on my phone and I can find the general easy. Not my fault people can't just look at the thread title.

>>47477635
Am I wrong in remembering the Tau shitting their collective pants whenever someone manages to kick their precious Ethereals asses?

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>>47477381
I feel you fleshy ally.

>Skitarii: combining the spindy/easily breakable infantry of the Necrons with the necessary colorfulness/highlights of Orks

>>47477668

Actually they get berserk and enter into genocide mode.

>>47477668
That's the "stated" fluff, and was the case on the tabletop for a long time (now it's only an extra VP).

However, in practice, a culexis killed the Space Pope and they just replaced him with a hologram and moved on. Admittedly, it was a small number of people who knew about this, but the point stands.

>>47477685
I really want to see Genocide Tau. There's a sept that hates aliens, I'd love to see an alien knock over an Ethereal and have that sept go on a rogue purging spree that would make the Emperor himself proud.

>>47477643
That would be funny.
It wouldn't really change its effectivness either, does anyone play on tables bigger than the standard 4x8?

I have trouble understanding the outflank rule.

Can I outflank with a unit even though the transport (in this case, a land raider) is not a dedicated transport?

>>47477668
They used to shit their pants and cry but that was too weak for the "inheritors of the universe" so now they get all angry like >>47477685 mentioned.

>>47477331
Ah 5th ed...
A simpler time where tau fielded hover tanks, grey knights were an elite choice rather than a codex, nids where the monstrous creature book, power weapons were power weapons, and wraithLORDS actually saw play.

>>47477738
And despite all of those things being superior to the current edition, it drove off quite a few players who only now are coming back.

Praise be to Rountree, hallow be his name.

>>47477613
Cry Carnac all you want, but chapters like the Mantis Warriors, the Reveilers, and the Black Templars are cooler than the big 9.

>>47477749
Here's hoping they don't fuck Dark Eldar any more than they already have. I mean, BDSM is kind of their thing, but come on...

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>>47477668
True, it apparently causes some sort of instinctual/conditioned response because it harkens back to the Mont'au - the "Terror Age" where there were no Ethereals.

Losing an Ethereal is a big blow to morale, but the Fire Caste has likely been trained to keep going regardless. I think the 6th Edition rules of an extra victory point do a better job of representing this rather than the "I Win" button that killing an Ethereal was in previous editions.

With all that said, I think Severax made a decent call by going after Shadowsun. The loss of her tactical expertise would have been a big blow to the entire Fire Caste, even if command would have just transferred to Shas'o Kais. He was just outplayed fair and square.

>>47477792
>I think the 6th Edition rules of an extra victory point do a better job of representing this rather than the "I Win" button that killing an Ethereal was in previous editions.

I disagree, however, it does make sense, and moreover I hate "here's a cool unique thing also it's a huge penalty", which was the style of a lot of old GW design decisions (see: all of Orks and CSM).

>tfw you really like Tau playstyle, but hate weeb things.

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>>47477792
Shadowsun played a trick on him by having a decoy, I'd hardly call that fair. I will give her praise for recognizing how her defeat would affect morale, however.

>>47477331
Is that davros on the back of that vyper?

>>47477830
>Shadowsun played a trick on him by having a decoy, I'd hardly call that fair.
>average_space_marine.txt

The victor decides what is fair.

>>47477738
You mean 4e, anon.

>>47477918
Those the new gemstone paints? Why is green only available in Australia?

>>47477830
It's proper Tau ignoble strategy. Of all the stupid shit in Kauyon killing Severax was not the stupidest thing.
The Tau have been known to kill Space Marine commanders by targeting them with seeker missiles, using a body double is hardly surprising.

>>47477497
Abaddon has taken the throne and chaos rules the galaxy. But by definition Chaos refuses to accept order and as a result Abaddon immediately finds himself under attack by his subordinates. Chaos factions constantly defend, conquer, reconquer, and destroy planets across the imperium and life as an imperial citizen becomes exponentially worse. Korne is pleased by the bloodshed, Tzeench cackles in glee as the chaos leaders scheme, Nurgle thrives among the corpses, and Slaanesh?

Slaanesh profits from the Craftworlds captured or destroyed by the Chaos hordes, as well as those swallowed by warp storms and the expanding maelstrom and eye of terror. The few Eldar that now remain hide among the Tau and Ultimus sectors, frequently coming to blows as they are forced to scavenge, raid, and kill for supplies once traded for with other craft worlds.

The Cadian Gate pops like a zit and the maelstrom doubles in size. Fortunately for Terra Abaddon holds the golden throne together by his own will; He has gotten what he wants from the gods and wants nothing more to do with them.

Orkz is happy. Dey don't care. Spiky Gitz fun to fight.

Tau expand rapidly, eating up defenseless imperial worlds. But before they can rise to become the newest superpower of the milky way they come in contact with Chaos. The resulting fight leads many Tau to become disillusioned with the empire. The rally under the Farsight Enclave and soon the empire is simultaneously fighting Orks, Chaos, and traitors.

>>47477918
Those gems look pretty cool, not sure how I feel about the gloss washes

>>47477946
The Necrons see all this warp fuckery and start working to contain it by building or reactivating pillars similar to those formerly found on Cadia. This brings them into contact with those living on planets with pillars hidden on them, as well as those chaos hordes still actually loyal to the chaos gods.

Hope for humanity remains in the Ultimus sector. A new, powerful psyker calling himself the Savior is uniting those imperial worlds too far away or too unimportant to Chaos lords to have been invaded. Those once loyal to the Emperor flock to this new mythical being in hopes of salvation, and even the Space Marines find themselves tempted by this new entity. Some join, some don’t. Fighting ensures amongst the imperial remnant. Travel is now limited to dealings with the Eldar, stolen Tau warp drives, and joyrides from the Necrons (assuming they don’t kill you on sight, and are willing to be bargained with, which is almost never).

And all the while the Tyranids approach. The Savior must hurry: If he cannot unite the galaxy, banish chaos, control the orks, and end a galaxy’s worth of conflicts before the bugs arrive, or sapience in the Milky Way galaxy is doomed.

And then GW releases the new rules and everyone rages.

>>47477939
Yup. The description implies that effect is from the gemstone paint put on top of a silver basecoat, and that's it. Hopefully Saint Duncan will do a video showing them properly though.

Australian green is because I was bored.

>>47477937
I think you'll find that 4th ed never actually happened.

>>47477818
Well my view is the loss of an Ethereal would be a much bigger behind-the-scenes victory, with the Caste Coalition scrambling to pick a new leader/work off old orders/cope with the loss of morale. Meanwhile, the Tau force on the surface continue fighting as they've been trained to do, keeping any bloodlust and fear in check.

Now Aun'va on the other hand, if he died then that's almost like seeing the God-Emperor die. Any match where Space Pope goes down is almost an unofficial victory by itself going by fluff. A single victory point to the enemy may not be enough to demonstrate this.

What's the best choice for starting an Ad Mech army? The start collecting box?

>>47477965
Well, it does seem to be a pretty nice effect. I'm curious to what the results would be when used as the main color rather than just for small details.

>>47477977
Yeah, that's very solid, and a good discount too.

>>47477939
The new what now?

>>47477976
Aun'va DID die, anon.

And they just made a hologram version and went on with the third phase.

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>>47478001
There's going to be paints for painting gemstones.

Also new metallics and gloss washes.

>Metal Layer Paints $5.75 ea
>Gemston Paints $4.25 ea
>Gloss Shades $7.25 ea

>>47477918
I would have loved a glossy seraphim sepia...

>>47477635
>a race of creature who are only capable of exactly one strategy which they execute in every single battle forever, and that strategy is "zerg the commander".
What the hell are you on about?
This is true in neither the game nor the fluff. In game there are many different ways of playing them, even on a tournament level, though admittedly the viable lists slims down a whole lot at that point.

And in lore we know for a fact space marines have a variety of different tactis employed, as shown by the codex Astartes, which, among other things, is a fucking list of all the different varieties of strategy that Astartes can use when fighting.
So where are you getting this idea that they only have one strategy, which is one that makes absolutely no sense given how the space marines could never just "zerg the commander"

>>47478050
What is the purpose of these paints?

- terrible painter

>>47478012
I'm aware. I'm talking about his tabletop rules though. 1 Victory Point for his death doesn't feel like enough for the leader of the entire Empire.

>>47477635
Not every marine is a Death Company marine, a World Eater/Khornate Bezerker, or the Black Templars, Anon. Heck the last ones managed to get a Khornate cult to turn on themselves.

Bright Pink Space Marines with every company formed from a different chapter, who all faked their deaths to form this secret chapter, TOTALLY DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE!!1! And they got mutated out of all the flaws of their geneseed.

Oh and they control a Forge World.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/4l7d5x/making_my_own_chapter_the_magneta_strikers/

>>47477604
>phone filth

I get that this is a haven for depressed, angry, socially retarded, neckfats. But hating anon for browsing on a phone is a bit silly. Why do you even care what device someone uses?

what is your position on tablets, laptops, and webtv?

>>47477749
Nigger please. Almost no one is returning to 40k right now. In fact, Id say more players are leaving due to the uninterrupted flow of terrible releases over the past 18 months.

Wait 2 months and you'll see just how much ground Games Workshop has lost over the last year.

>>47478441
Yeah I don't get the phone poster hate. On some level I assume it's an ironic meme.

>>47478498
Proofs?

>>47478498
Proof?

No Anecdotes please.

>>47478441
Not that guy but
>image.jpg alongside shitpost, every time

>hi how does this easily searchable rule work?
>rulebooks are in the OP
>sorry on phone lol spoonfeed me instead

>ugh no it's easier scrolling through 150 images on my phone to find the 40k thread for my daily >i2 post than managing to hit the drop down tab to open the search bar with my sausage fingers

>ooh 3mb image posted in the /wip/ thread? Do you selfish fucks not understand I have a datacap!?

>>47477825
>Tau playstyle

What is that exactly? Because nearly every Tau player fields suit lists and relies on easy mode gimmicks like MC spam, markerlights, mirrorfagging, and multiple gargantuan creatures. Their playstyle is pretty much 'set difficulty to novice' and play yahtzee.

inb4 the inevitable 'git gud' and 'delicious tears'

>>47478528
>>47478549

Ok, prove players are returning to 40k, since that claim was made first.
See how that works?

>>47478553
Ah ok. So you opportunites to get pissed everywhere. Im guessing you 'hate' CSM and Ork players. And 'wish theyd squat Sisters so you fags would shut up'.

Sorry that you're so unhappy anon. I hope you get your life sorted out.

>>47478581
>Their playstyle is pretty much 'set difficulty to novice'
Spam thundercav, win
Spam knight titans, win
Spam wraithknights, win

Yea, you're just mad some tau faggot beat you.

Tau use a combined arms approach, each unit supporting the other towards the end goal. Tau focus on modern tactics, shooting, while mixing their hunting strategies into their operations.
Meanwhile space marine players are too busy putting a grav gun up their ass and pulling the trigger

>>47478617
The stock has been going steadily up, especially since the appointment of the new CEO.
We know the BaC sold extremely well, so there's that.
The decline is slaes has slowed, which, while that still means that yes, there are less players than at the highpoint, people have to be returning, other wise the sales drop would only grow, not shrink.

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Unbound IG/Knights/Space Marines

Space Marine Captain-120

Scout squad-65
sniper rifles

Tactical squad-165
10 marines, combi-plasma, plasma gun, The Imperial Space Marine

Dreadnought-100

10 scions-140
power sword, flamer
10 scions-145
power sword, 2 flamers
10 scions-220
power sword, 2 metlaguns, chimera

Sentinel Recon Company
3 armored sentinels-165
plasma cannons, smoke launchers
3 armored sentinels-165
lascannons, smoke launchers

Knight Acheron-415

1800

200 points for the space marines left over, what should I do?

>>47478581
Every spam-list is braindead. If you actually take a good variety of Tau units and focus on their teamwork and mobility? They can be a blast to play.

>>47478667
I suspect you are the the phone hater, and in this thread every day, because I visit semi-regularly and I recognize your style of vitriol.
So do you just sit there, browsing the internet, shitposting and calling people faggot all day every day? Because thats the vibe Im getting from you.

Get a life man. Theres more to do than habitually lashing out at anonymous users on an imageboard.

>>47478617
Nope. You were fine with
>Almost no one is returning to 40k right now.
and anon (I'm not the person that posted that) should probably post proof*. But when you additionally said
>In fact, Id say more players are leaving due to the uninterrupted flow of terrible releases over the past 18 months.
a burden of proof fell on you for that claim as well. So let's see it m8.

*I could point you to threads on places like warseer where people are a lot more positive to GW, but there don't tend to be concrete "my local area's grown by this many players" claims. (Although, I haven't seen posts claiming the opposite either.)

>>47478739
Hell, people have become a lot kinder to GW on here as well, though it's mostly limited to the new CEO, and still has it's share of naysayers

>>47478739
Obviously neither claim can be proven. Stop shitposting.

>>47478686
>we know that BaC sold extremely well

We do? Because that cant be substantiated. And Hastings reported that BaC fell short of GW's goals

>the sales shrink has slowed

Really? Because GW sent out a damage control report essentially saying 'brace yourselves' to shareholders right after the holidays.

>>47478581
>gimmicks like markerlights
oh i'm sorry, did you want us to just rely on army-wide bs3 and do nothing about it? Or did you want us to run riptide wing/ghostkeel wing to get bs4 on them?

>>47478727
>Gets all defense the instant shit doesn't go his way
>I'm not even that anon
>Now we know you're absolutely buttmad some tau player beat you

You might wanna stop posting, completely.
Unless you wanna post a list and try and summon formatting anon.
I don't even know why I bothered to explain why people like playing tau.

Maybe I thought "You know what? Maybe that anon is looking for an answer."
But no, you're just looking to shitpost because it's the only thing you have a degree of skill at. And we all see how well that's going.

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>>47478845
>army-wide bs3 and do nothing about it?

Sure, why not, at least you got S5 basic guns.

>>47478827
>Really? Because GW sent out a damage control report essentially saying 'brace yourselves' to shareholders right after the holidays.
In the buisness year of 2014-2015 sales fell 4.6%. In the first half of 2015, they only fell by 2.2%. In contant currency, they fell by 2.2% in 2014 and rose by .7% in the first half. So yes, the drop of sales did decrease, and in fact they increased if you view the sales in a constant currency.
Also, proofs on the claim that BaC sold less then expected? Becsuse all reliable leaks have GW releasing a follow up late this year. They don't do that for poor selling stuff.
And this source better not be some shit like a BoLS article by the way.

>>47478827
Claims about B@C sales are weird. Some claim it's done badly and GW are doomed. Some claim it's done really well, and was the only thing propping up GW after the assumed financial disaster of AOS. It seems B@C's sales numbers depend on whether someone hates GW in general or AOS specifically.

>>47478902
Marker lights are basically an army-wide special rule anyway. Saying they're a gimmick is like saying chapter tactics or ATSKNF are gimmicks.

>>47478827
>And Hastings reported that BaC fell short of GW's goals
No he didn't. He said, and I quote:
"AoS is selling worse than WFB did, it’s popularity is much lower, if GW don’t reach out and get someone to start buying/playing do you think GW will support AoS for very long if it is actually making them less money than WFB did???

That’s what this 3 ways to play is all about, they have got to try and appeal to a bigger market, because the market they selected (picked at random) is not spending enough money. Hence the very very early warning to sharholders despite having 2 very popular launches (BaC and DW:O) AND some well received 40k releases….. this should at least be some kind of indication of how much AoS tanked even for the most ardent fan of it."
In this statement he both adresses the warning to shareholders, saying that was due to AoS sales, and describes both BaC and DW:O as being "popular". You don't describe a poorly selling product as "popular".

>>47477709
The rulebook only mentions Dedicated Transports, so it seems that, RAW, you can't Outflank with a unit embarked on a Heavy Support Land Raider.

I personally, if you were my opponent, would let you, but that's me personally, I'm quite flexible.

So if it's you and your mates playing, bring it up. But say, if it's a tournament or someone you don't know , I think the rulebook disallows it

Where can I find some good, entertaining 40k battle reports to read or watch?

>>47478667
>Spam knight titans, win
Do people honestly think this? Most all comers lists can beat Knight formations. Nearly any tournament level list can beat Knight formations. Knight formations aren't good. The argument against them has never been that they're too good, it's that they're boring to play against.

>>47479103
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2mQ7x6K74NBfmxBoMwZCnw
Miniwargaming is OK.

So I posted in here the other day asking how to get back into 40k after not playing since 5th.
I went to the local GW and asked the guy there he said buy Dark Vengeance cause you get the rules and a £20 voucher with it so I could buy the new codex to replace my old ones for £20 less plus I get rules cheaper than buying the big £50 rulebook. Is this good idea or is he just trying to take my money in some devilish scheme? (inb4 that's all GW does)

>>47479033
Separate conversation with Hastings, from about 3 months before the one you quoted. Idrgaf though famb. Believe whatever you like.

>>47478845
What is Imperial Gaurds BS? With less durability, weaker formations, no MC's, no JSJ, no gargantuans, no mid strength shooting spam..

>hurrdurrr veterans and orders hurrrrdurr

>>47479130
Tau can do it through weight of fire, marines can do it through too many metal boxes for the knights to kill, eldar can do it because the D and Crons can do it because they just dont die. Everyone else though has serious trouble

>>47478699
Lots of servitors

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>>47478896
>so mad

>>47478960

ATSKNF IS a shitty rule.

It basically makes morale a non-issue for the entire army and kills not only fear but a host of extra rules that are even vaguely fear related.

>>47479327

Not that it's the only offender of that when it comes to fear.

>>47479245
Are you looking to play chaos or dark angels?
If so the box is a decent deal
If not, the box is a lie. Our quick reference rules in the OP are 99% of the rules you'll ever need. Codexes are also in the OP.

>>47479321
I had to actually click the gif to figure out he was holding chicken.
Do black people really get that happy over chicken?

>>47479457
fried chicken is delicious, you don't have to be black to get happy about it

>>47479457
>Do black people really get that happy over chicken?
Wouldn't you get happy over some nice fried-chicken?

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>>47479457
>Do black people really get that happy over chicken?

Stereotypes exist for a reason.
Also, there is more than 1 fast food fried chicken chain that caters to black people. I dont know why, but yeah -black people do seem to like fried chicken a whole lot.

>>47479304
Knights are shit at holding objectives and easy to tarpit and have almost no AA capability. They absolutely require allies to function, and buy the time you add in a credible allied detachment in a 1500 or 1850 point game, you're at the point where you're better off taking that as your primary detachment with one or two allied Knights.

>>47479457
Nah I don't play either of those. What's left out of the reference thing? 99% isn't 100%

>>47479618
Nothing that matters if you already know how to play.

>>47479618
White Dwarves 2014-current and pre-6E rules. Apart from that it's pretty comprehensive.

My GM thinks I read up on the story he is going with since I'm getting fucking everything right. Everybody thinks I read up on the story.

>>47479457
>Do black people really get that happy over chicken?
desu everyone would

>>47479457
>Do black people really get that happy over chicken?
Every gets happy over fried chicken you nigger. Watermelon too. It's fucking great food.

>>47479103
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWVwkGrdqVEGkU3LNlp70fw

>>47479725
Watermelon a shit

>>47479103

> MiniWargaming:

https://www.youtube.com/user/miniwargaming

> SEO Winters:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWVwkGrdqVEGkU3LNlp70fw

> The Glacial Geek:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc2y1nPhG9Rmiy0g31S2ijg

> Frontline Gaming (they're a competitive channel):

https://www.youtube.com/user/Team0Comp

> Striking Scorpion 82:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClbmK5kNUd2-bzH9fjlFgpA

> The Dark Artisan:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClbmK5kNUd2-bzH9fjlFgpA


There are many more as well.

>>47478902
We're also 9 points per model, ws2 and i2.

>>47479894

Wrong like for Striking Scorpion 82. Striking Scorpion 82 is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/user/StrikingScorpion82

Also.

> Table Top Tactics:

https://www.youtube.com/user/tabletoptactics

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Huh. Just realized that my favorite Space Marine character is S10 because his weapons is Sx2

Awesome.

>>47479907
who the fuck cares? Guard or Tau will crumple to anyone else in close combat. the ws and I wont matter at all

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>>47479865
You take that back right now!

>>47479907
and have an armor save that isn't ignored by pretty much every gun in the game

Tau without markerlights would be a bit much, but markerlights need some actual restrictions on what they can do..

>>47479907
>Complaining about melee.
>In the shooting edition.
Kek.

>>47479965
Being able to take cover saves against markerlights would be nice.

>>47479973
>Complaining about troops without transports with fire points
>In the metal boxes edition
Sounds about right.

I've just finished reading Horus Rising, but it looks like there's 30 odd books in the Horus Heresy series.

Are they all worth reading? If not, which ones should I look for, and which should I skip?

What's the best way to use a Tau commander when he's not in a coldstar suit?

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>>47479964

>>47480000
There's that, but I mean there's also the fact that literally any unit on the table can use any marker token, regardless of distance. No restriction on how many tokens they can use per phase, either.

Even with orders you've got to keep your voxes alive and officers in range. And you still have to pass leadership checks to use the things in the first place.

>>47480089
Just read the first four, FW's books, and Collected Visions/Visions of Heresy. You'll be fine.

>>47480000
>>47480147
The two biggest changes I'd want for markerlights is changing Ignores cover to just be -1 cover for 1 token, so that quality of cover matters, and making it so Markerlights can't boost the BS of other Markerlights.

Using any Marker token works, because that's how you do stuff like use the Sky Ray to fire Seeker Missiles as artillery support. The restriction on tokens per phase is how many you hit with.

Imperial guard needs an officer near the firing unit and to pass a leadership test. Tau need a markerlight unit near the target and to hit it using Ballistic skill.

Markerlights need tweaks, but I don't think they need to be changed drastically.

>>47479254
that would just mean it was doing poorly but more recently has bounced back and is doing well.

>>47480220
i could get behind those changes.

>>47480220
>Tau need a markerlight unit near the target
36" isn't really my definition of "near". Having units choose between ignoring cover or BS5 wouldn't really kill markerlight usability either, since those are both pretty powerful abilities to have on command in their own right.

>>47480101
Iridium armor
Stim
Maybe shield gen? Depends on your meta. Always 2 shield drones anyway
2 fusion blasters
Donkey punch
Neruoweb distruptor thing

>>47480388

Would you have him on his own or with some body guards deep striking?

So, I'm running my Tau in my groups Path of Glory campaign so I can act out their custom fluff for once, and I rolled some good units. Hows my list? Points don't matter, apparently, so I pimped my suits. (Also, is it legal for me to have all the relics on 1 guy? Battlescribe doesn't give me an error and the codex says "may take ITEMS".

Trait- A Ghost Who Walks Among Us

Commander - 2 Marker Drones, Shield Generator, Stim Injector, Fusion Blaster, Drone Controller, and literally every relic. So he can be a buffmander if needed, but still pack a punch.

Ghostkeel - Ion Raker, Shield Generator, Stim Injector, TL Fusion

Crisis Team- 3x Crisis Suits - All have target lock and each has a set of 2 weapons, respectively, Fusion Blasters, Airbursting Frag Launcher, Plasma Rifles. 3 Marker Drones and 3 Shield Drones

Hammerhead - Railgun with Subs, SMS, and all vehicle upgrades. No Longstrike.

>>47480424
Normally he runs around on his own being an annoying asshole with a str 10 ap 1 melee attack, but sometimes (also depending on warlord trait) he attaches to another suit unit and helps take out a problem target.

It's always really funny when they can't shoot him to death, he fires his fusion into something and then charges it for glorious str 10 ap 1 armobane. Has trouble hitting, but it's a one hit KO most of the time.

Don't forget about the neuroweb thing, 2 points that forces and enemy unit to have the gets hot special rule.

>>47480449
Give your hammerhead gun drones so he can shoot while moving 6 inches

>>47480101
Guns and durability.
Shield gen is a must, guns, and I never pass on the onager gauntlet or 2 point relic that makes a units guns Gets Hot.

>>47480388
Gun drones will work just as well as shield ones in most cases.

>>47480492

Sounds pretty funny, doesn't the donkey punch always hit first? Or am I confusing it with something else?

>>47480542
I think that's the Repulsor Impact field, which is basically a reverse hammer of wrath.

>>47480449
I thought Tau didn't believe in ghosts. Is Ghost a title or what?

>>47477639
>DA
Fuck them the imperium would be better without them, there's literally nothing worth noting about them and have caused more damage than good.

>>47480559

I'm not sure charging with him would work, I always seem to end up against space marines so I'll get my shit pushed in. It does sound pretty funny though

>>47480562
I believe all of the names for Tau battlesuits and vehicles are those used be the Imperium, or a rough translation.

I mean, the Tau are from a desert world. Why would they name everything after nautical terms and aquatic creatures?

>>47480562
Imperial designation for the Tau suit. It'll be some weird octal name in T'au.

>>47480562
Probably the closest translation to what they call something that's quick and stealthy or something that can seem to go from one place to another at an impossible (to Tau) speed. At least that's what I'd like to believe. But then there's the name of the Ghostkeel that counters what I believe.

>>47480575
Bad doggy.

>>47480449
Here's a rundown of the fluff if anyone's curious.

http://pastebin.com/0z7srKJL

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>>47480575

Wolf, calmez-vous. La première légion peut avoir effectué certaines actions louches dans le passé, mais leur loyauté est l'endroit où il doit être.
>>47480580
>I mean, the Tau are from a desert world. Why would they name everything after nautical terms and aquatic creatures?
Because they caused an accident that dried up the oceans?
>>47480600
>>47480599
They know what a ghost is and decided to use the name anyway?

>>47480675
>
TL;DR: Tau EPA sub-organization works with questionable ethics on planets experimenting with stuff most people will never know about and only see the results of. They're also painted in a Tron inspired theme.
That seems fine to me.

>>47479865
You're shit

>>47480680
Jesus Christ that scheme is horrid.

>>47481225
Can you tell me what's wrong with it?

Does anyone have that post that likens the Imperium's hatred of xenos to /constantly/ finding horrible venomous cobras inside your christmas presents? I hate to ask, but I've been completely unable to find the damn thing and I need it for reasons.

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>>47481391
Here you go.

>>47481408
Thank you very much.

>>47477381
That pain has been enhanced a hundred times for me as I was dumb and decided to build and paint an entire platoon all together. Built 55 guys, checked each guy for model lines twice, than go outside to spray. After I let them dry and I get ready to paint half the guys still have terrible model lines.

>>47481430
Always glad to help, Anon. Strangely enough I haven't see the snake pasta in ages and this has been the first time I posted it in forever. What sort of reasons did you need for if you don't mind me asking?

>>47480600
a ghostkeel is a fish. it's just the same old tau naming convention they've had from the get go.

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>>47480616
>>47480680
>Doggy
>Not righteously indignated crusader that lost his brothers when they discovered the DA betrayal
Dear Emperor I wish GW give us a place on the next part of the space corgis campaign to hunt you down into extinction

>>47481380
Neon blue, black, and gunmetal does not go well together. Need to tone down the blue, either by going darker or lighter.

>>47481462
I'm in a Rogue Trader game with some novices and I'm trying to explain why the imperium doesn't try to give aliens the benefit of the doubt. I explained the parable of the Gift and the Viper and told them I'd see if I could find it when I got the chance. Thanks again.

>>47481380
It's a dark angel descendant chapter.

>>47481572
>lost his brothers
>can't even keep track of your own dudes
No wonder you shitters went from 6000 to just over 1000 standing marines overnight.

It's called writing things down, you fuckheads seem to have managed to lose that concept after sacking all your librarians. Maybe if you kept them around you would have nice things, like mortis dreadnoughts.

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>>47481572
Hey, cousin, don't blame me for what the parent chapter did. I don't know a French phrase to say to calm you down.
>>47481599
That's neon blue? Huh. I need to get my eyes check then. Here's the blue that Chapter Master gave me. Far lighter.
>>47481620
Thank you for telling me. Again glad to be of service.
>>47481622
That's cruel.

>>47481572
Man, that templar is like two feet taller than the chaos marine, or else the artist cannot into perspective

>>47481666
That CSM sold his height for the secrets of robotic dinosaurs, Satan.

blue clashes terribly with red, so does green.

How many coats of base paint can you slap over a model before you decide to cut your losses and give up?

>>47481666
it looks like hes trying to hide his head inside his power armor like a turtle.

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>>47481782
I wasn't aware of that. I wanted blue because it for camo reasons/because my marines live on an ice world. Looking back that was probably stupid. As for the black and red it was the pre-Heresy DA color scheme, and I honestly don't know why I picked grey.

>>47481800
Until you can't see the detailing famalam

>>47481845
no no, BLACK and red go together fine.

Its blue and red, and green and red that don't go together.

>>47481854
assuming i'm retarded?

>>47481845
Black and red go together amazingly and is easy to paint, i have both inquisition and renegades/heretics painted black/red and looking decent, and im a shit painter. If you're doing a two-colour scheme, black and red is one of the very easiest and best looking

>>47481874
there are some exceptions, like christmas decorations, but for the most part they look gouche'

>>47481890
I've rebased my Razorwing fighter about 4 times, i couldn't decide on a decent scheme, and it's fine so long as you can A) see all the detailing and B) Have an even final coat of paint

Assuming neither of those those, stop and start again

>>47481874
My mistake, Anon. It's just a little red compared to the 65% blue, 20% black, and 10% grey.
>>47481905
I did create Christmas marines on accident.

I can't keep my hand steady when I'm trying to paint my trim. do i need to inject pentezamine into my knuckles or something?

I really want to make a flamestike strike force because of the +1S flamer templates but I'm stuck with a fucking demi-company as a core choice.

What the fuck am i supposed to do with a mandatory dev squad and 3 squads of tac marines?

>>47477598
>Minor daemonic entity
>The Changling

Pick one

>>47477706
Apocalypse games

>>47481782
Blue goes great with red, what are you talking about?

>>47477598
It's amazing how nobody reads the Wulfen book and bitches about it. The Dark Angels came to the system to save the Space Wolves from the chaos taint that is literally everywhere. Warp rifts are opening all over the star system, daemons are changing stars in the sky, chaos is fucking everywhere and there's Greater Daemons running around. The only reason why full Exterminatus wasn't immediately declared is because the Space Wolves are snowflakes.

>>47480575
The Dark Angels are the biggest and most powerful force fighting Chaos Space Marines. During the reformation of the Imperium they were the most zealous crusaders, going even beyond the Black Templars in insane zeal, and command the most powerful fleet in all of 40k.

>>47482083
it's okay anon, changeling will get the respect he deserves when he gets decent rules or corrupts a grey knight via the prank of the century

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What army do I bring to my game on Monday? 2000 points; Im going up against:
Mechanized Orks (probably)
Suit Tau
Necron CAD
Dark Eldar

I have-
Mechanized Guard
Blood Angels
Nurgle Daemons
3 Knights

>>47482741
incursion nurgle daemons

>>47482793
Daemonic Incursion it is. Now with no scatter deep striking GUO.

Devestators don't have deep strike do they? It really seems like they should.

>>47479865
DELETE THIS

>>47482885
>devestors*
sorry, meant centaurians.

>>47482895
They're not equipped with teleporters like terminators are. You can still stick em in a drop pod though.

>>47479327
It doesn't work on pinning and a whole host of other crap.

>>47477482
stfu Blood Angles are literally perfect

>>47481666
You can tell that from nothing but an arm and an unhelmeted head?

>>47482885
>>47482895
No. They're really bulky and heavy. They're slightly smaller dreadnoughts. If you really want them to deep-strike though, drop pods are cheap enough.

>>47482928
can barely fit 3 of 'em in a droppod

>>47482940
And you can only fit one Dreadnought inside one. What's your point?

>>47479327
>fear

fear is terrible dude, just about every army has rerolls for morale or is high enough so they can easily take the test

>>47482867
i want to like the GUO, i really do but i can't seem to play them right

>>47482963
They really need to tone down the effects of morale so more stuff can be vulnerable to it.

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>>47481845
Here anon.
Read this to get a good understanding of what colors go well together, and which ones don't.

http://www.colormatters.com/color-and-design/basic-color-theory

Also, never forget to consult your color wheel

>>47483040
Thanks, but I've had that color scheme for so long I don't think I can part with it. I need a blue that fits with the whole artic/tundra theme.

>>47483158
Then use white for the love of our eyes instead of black.

>>47482920
Compare the pauldrons-the chaos marines pauldrons are smaller than the templars despite being much closer to the observer. That templar is like, ten feet tall if the CSM is the usual 7 1/2 foot tall marine. high school arts, mufugga

>>47483222
My mind couldn't handle that. I don't want to go against trips, but it honestly can't be that bad. Compare it to Slaaneshis and anything Tau and tell me my color scheme is horrible.

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Is knowing when to act disciplined and in control just as important as knowing when to act reckless?

>>47483269
absolutely. I keep way too tight of control on myself. I never "snap" (not really anyway) but i tend to "shut down" to the point where I'm basically useless.

I wish I were better at letting go.

>>47483001
Oh, they did for Orks, then stopped.

>>47483266
>anything Tau
Of all the complaints about Tau you went with color scheme?

>>47483266
I really don't get what everyone else is up in arms about. I mean, maybe I'd pick out a somewhat darker shade of blue, but it's certainly no worse than the Crimson Fists, and they have a great scheme.

The Red is used primarily for details, so saying it clashes with blue is a bit odd.

People have stopped playing 40k at my store, all they play is age of sigmar now. All I wanna do is play some 40k daemons but I end up getting roped in to sigmar games and I hate that game.

How's your games going /tg/?

>>47483409
Opposite at my store, nothing but 40k. Hell, more people play 30k exclusively than AoS

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>>47483266

>>47483376 here. Just for example's sake, I did a quick mock-up with darker blues and grey in place of black. It lacks some of the detail, but the general color balance doesn't seem too off.

I think it mainly is the contrast between the bright blue and the dark black.

CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!!

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>>47483409
not sure, but i joined up with an esclation league and next week the teens get out so i can get in plenty of games i hope. time to show off the blue scribes and possibly beat up some grey knights. i hope i don't have to pull out my heavy hitters just yet

>>47483409
Nothing but 40k and x-wing, with a handful of bolt-action players that come in on a blue moon.

Should demon creatures have a BS 1/Snapshots penalties vs the Tau?

>>47483672
no, why would they? they don't even get that against inquistors or grey knights

>>47483692

Organic and creatures of metal see with their eyes/sensors. Daemons see the Souls. Tau souls are too faint for a Daemon.

>>47483727
I'm pretty sure manifested Daemons can also see with their eyes. Otherwise you might as well argue that all Daemons should have Ignore Cover because they can see you through walls.

>>47483727
>Tau souls are too faint for a Daemon.
no they aren't

>>47483727
By that logic, Daemons should randomly walk into walls and trip over rocks because they can't see objects.

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>>47483727

>>47483727
while that makes sense i'm against giving the tau any kind of help. i'm pretty sure they can sense mortals by more then just their souls. also i believe they're too faint to corrupt, not kill/curse/rape/eat/force them to do puzzles

>>47483727

I think this is only an issue within the Warp.

>>47483727
This is a good bait. You got a lot of responses.

>>47483266
Ok. Go adjacent color theory and replace the blue with a darker light blue or purple.

>>47477381
AAARG! Damn these Guardsmen I forgot to trim the INSIDE of the pants! Now I have to go back and do it all over again!

I would honestly be willing to pay full professional painter's price to have someone just trim the moldlines off the guardsmen. I will never do that, however, because that seems like the fastest possible way to permanently ruin somebody's enthusiasm for table modeling forever.

But I love painting and gaming sooo much its totally worth it.

To a new player (tyranids) is the dimachaeron worth purchasing?

I love the model itself but have yet to tackle a large model (putting off my hive tyrant until i finish deciding a color scheme for my army) but it looks dope as fuck and seems totally worth the price/points but i plan on starting at 750-1000 point games.

Should i wait until i have a proper army and skills (both painting and playing) to purchase it or splurge and add it to my current army in progress? Also curious about malenthropes and stone crusher carnifex.

>>47483879
a friendly reminder anon; mold lines are everywhere

>>47480575
But anon, I have 2500 points of Dark Angels, what should I do with it now?

>>47483727

Perhaps species without psykers will get Warp resistance or something in the next edition.

>>47483912
while the forge world models may look cool as shit i'd only recommend using them if fun is your priority and not winning
i say this because most people will be appalled that you brought anything other than a max flyrant list with minimal points spent on troops, but they'll talk mad shit at you if you do exactly that, take of it what you will

>>47484129
fun is more important than winning to me, which is why i chose tyranids over necrons/CSM/daemons. Also i'm totally gay for xenomorphs so tyranids spoke to me more than anything else. I have a flyrant built and planned on making two seperate armies. One will be all flying and the other all ground with venom/zoan/malenthropes and lots of CC and MC.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Meme-Virus

237th for memes

>>47483912
I would hold off for now. Big superheavies like that are a lot to deal with, especially since you haven't even gotten to 1000 points yet. Better to start small and build your way up. You can always pick one up later.

>>47484222
It's not a superheavy, nor is it good. It's just a plain old over costed MC. It's like a Trygon.

>>47484222
not like it /really/ matters, but the dimachaeron is a leaping MC rather than GC, which kinda blows asshole considering the size of the model

>>47483933
Play CSM

>>47483912
the malanthrope is very worth it, considering its a venomthrope thats better in challenges, and a synapse creature. and is only some 20 odd points more then a venomthorpe. Stonewrecker is honestly comparable to a regular carnifex, it trades adrenal glands and regen for MUCH better AT capability if it makes it to the enemy.
its also immune to S3 attacks.

>>47484453
stonecrusher is fun, literally touch armour with its big toe and it explodes, getting it there is a problem though, like you said

>>47478142
Buy a bottle of sepia or sienna ink from any art store.

Why do striking scorpions have chain swords? That sort of weapon seems very human-oriented.

>>47484759
Things weren't so clear cut back in the day.

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Hello! I'm a new player who is trying to figure out who I want to play. I have three Space Marine chapters on my mind. The Salamanders, Imperial Fists, Black Templars. Their stories are just amazing to me.

>>47483992
Why is it that people feel like psykers should have a ton of chances of not working? Fuck me, sixth edition and its "every witchfire has a 17% chance of fizzling" was terrible.

>>47477918

>Stormhost Silver

WE SHALL BE REBORN IN THE NECRODERMIS, SHINY AND CHROME!

>>47477946

So, in this scenario, the Tau Empire becomes Imperium 2.0.

>>47481408
I think what annoys me the most about the Tau fluff (the new stuff at least) is that this doesn't apply to them. Imperium tries to research some new tech and oh it was Chaos/Necrons/Iron Men/Scrap-code/etc. Tau research some new tech and it either goes BETTER than intended (see their research into Kustom Force Fields) or has no negative consequences whatsoever.

The Imperium losing battles and hanging on by a thread is fair enough. That's their theme, the whole 5 seconds from midnight, twilight of humanity and all that. But the Tau exist in a universe that is actually out to get everyone. And it would be nice if SOMETHING bad happened to them. Just some consequence for their actions. Here's some suggestions just from the top of my head.

>Tau encounter a new xeno race and open negotiations. The race agrees to join the Tau Empire. Shortly afterwards, a major Tyranid splinter fleet is detected heading deep into Tau space. Too late the Tau discover that the race they had accepted in were infected by Genestealers. Stringent quarantine procedures are implemented across the empire's northern fringe and attempts to track down all of the infected race lasts for decades.

>An ancient archeological site on a Tau sept world is being explored when a strange device is activated. Moments later gleaming metal constructs appear through the walls, scything down the Earth caste scientists in seconds. The world is declared off limits and millions of civilians are evacuated.

>>47484796
play chaos you loyalist shit

>>47485018
chaos a shit

>>47484796
pick whatever appeals to you the most

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>>47485016
Says the anon who hasn't read Tau fluff and yet dares to make demands of it.

>>Tau encounter a new xeno race and open negotiations. The race agrees to join the Tau Empire. Shortly afterwards, a major Tyranid splinter fleet is detected heading deep into Tau space. Too late the Tau discover that the race they had accepted in were infected by Genestealers. Stringent quarantine procedures are implemented across the empire's northern fringe and attempts to track down all of the infected race lasts for decades.

Happened. Check the FFG Deathwarch RPG for more information. (picture related).

>>An ancient archeological site on a Tau sept world is being explored when a strange device is activated. Moments later gleaming metal constructs appear through the walls, scything down the Earth caste scientists in seconds. The world is declared off limits and millions of civilians are evacuated.

That's the backstory of one of the major Tau septs.

>>47484796
Its probably not what you where asking for, but I am giving you another angle: from a painting perspective, Imperial fists might stand out and thus might be rewarding, but yellow is a pain in the ass to paint, because it's a rather translucent colour! (I am currently painting some myself... takes long, depending on your style...) Black Templars are the easiest to paint, but so much black might get dull to paint (painted lots of black Ulthe Eldar, gets booring)...
Salamanders are somewhere in the middle of both concerning the work you have to put into painting, the flames-heraldy and the scales might be pretty fun to paint and make them look quite distinguished...

>>47485078
>Check the FFG Deathwarch RPG for more information. (picture related)

Not canon. Try again.

Can a infantry squads in a IG platoon combine into more than one combined squad?

i.e. 5 Squads + HQ ---> 1 Combined (3 Squads) + 1 Combined (2 Squads + HQ)

>>47485226
I thank You for this. See, I like to take pride in my work. You got me thinking about all the little details, I decided with salamanders!

>>47485247
Only the infantry squad can combine, but yeah you could spit them into multiple blobs.

>>47479327
ATSKNF models should basically be priced much heavier than their counterparts. There ought to be a price tag for playing in safety mode, basically excusing an army from half the game's survivability/damage system. If your enemies have to manually kill every model in combat, and keep up constant pressure to drive units off the board, you've denied them lots of tactical options.

Marines are boring to play against, so making them rarer would make each individual unit choice matter more.

>>47485237
Everything is canon

>>47482963
>>47479327
>>47485386
If there's one stat that needs to be lowered across the board, it's Leadership.

Examples:

Guardsman Conscript - 3
Guardsman - 4
Guardsman Sergeant & Junior Officer - 5
Senior Officer & Commissar - 6
Commissar Lord - 7

Orks count the total bulk of their unit (so Bulky models count as 2, Very Bulky as 3 etc) and divide it by two, this can be used as their Leadership. If the result is 11 or more, the unit is Fearless.

Ork Boy - 2
Ork Nob - 4
Ork Boss - 6, Stubborn

Eldar Guardian - 5
Aspect Warrior - 6
Exarch & Warlock - 7
Farseer - 8
Autarch - 9

For Daemons of different gods, add 1 for Nurgle, 2 for Khorne and 3 for Tzeencth.

Beasts - 2
Lesser Daemons - 3
Heralds - 4
Daemon Princes - 7 regardless of Mark
Greater Daemons - 6

Chaos Marines - 5
Aspiring Champions and Chosen - 6
Exalted Champions and Sorcerors - 7
Lords - 8

I'd genuinely consider keeping across the board Ld 10 as a Necron trait, making them distinctly resilient to being freaked out by casualties.

>>47483040
That is one poor colour wheel. Yellow and magenta are overweighted, cyan and red are underweighted. RGB is better than this, which is not praise for RGB.

>>47485441
Perhaps Leadership should be brought in line as a single D6 table comparison rolloff, like strength vs toughness and WS vs WS. Leadership testing events are weighted by the stress they cause, which could be the name for the overall value - Stress vs Leadership.

Every 5% of casualties removed by shooting = 1 Stress

Every point by which a combat is lost = 1 Stress

The Fear rule doubles the Stress inflicted by a unit. Alternatively, it forces successful Leadership tests to be reroll.

>>47485441
You could pretty easily send an entire enemy running with Ld stats like that.

>>47485547
I did sort of realise that, hence why I made >>47485496. That said, I think the game would be a lot more interesting if units a) ran much more quickly and easily and b) there was greater disparity within armies by leadership unit.

>>47485782
Trouble is that it makes anything not fearless worthless. It's not worth it if you lose 2-3 models and then the whole squad runs off the board. You'd have to reduce how crippling a failed morale test is.

>>47485797
I dunno anon. For a typical squad of 10, losing 2 or 3 models constitutes 20-30 percent of the unit. This gives a Stress value of 4 or 6, which is enough to push guardsmen's shit in and gives fair odds of failing back to marines. Seems like the slight adjustment we're aiming for. It also makes attaching ICs with Ld values of 7 or more and Commissars much more worthwhile.

I like the idea of falling back happening more often, but rallying being pretty easy.

Leads to units dropping short distances back, and needing to be repeatedly leafblowered to shove them off the board.

Also gives a downside to static gunline armies, where they have a shorter distance to fall back than assault armies.

>>47485839
>>47485852
If games were longer it wouldn't be too bad, but having half your army unable to do anything due to failing ld sucks and leads to an opponent easily snowballing.

>>47485866
Half your army isn't what's going to happen however. It's more like 1/3 to 1/4 unless your army is very low Ld or the enemy is a specialist in fear tests. It's an improvment over morale failure being a rare occurance across the board, something needs addressing.

What other solutions can be envisage?

>>47486178
If you want morale to feature more often it needs to be less crippling to a unit.

>>47485852
That's interesting actually. Maybe the rallying factor can be removed altogether.

A unit rolls 2D6 and adds X (the number of casualties/5% percentage lost/points by which combat is lost) then subtracts their Ld whenever they suffer any casualties. If this number is greater than 0, the unit falls back this many inches, up to the limit of its normal movement plus 6. For example, normal infantry have a limit of 12, Jump Infantry 18. If this limit is exceeded, place as many panic tokens next to the unit. It must move this far back up to its movement limit next turn, though it may act normally otherwise.

Whenever an enemy unit falls back within Y inches of one of your own units, where Y equals the highest Initiative in that unit plus 6, it may attempt a sweeping advance attack. Both units roll D6 and add their Initiative. If your unit's total equals or exceeds the enemy's, move your unit the D6 value towards the enemy and remove the enemy unit. Each unit may only sweeping advance and be sweeping advanced once per turn.

>>47486189
You're asserting that morale is crippling, but I'm not seeing any reasoning.

>>47486241
A failed morale test basically removes the ability of that unit to do anything for a turn. When a game can last only five turns that's a big deal. Especially if an opponent gets the alpha strike and you fail a few tests, it can easily compound.

>>47483455
That can work.

>>47486265
First, not entirely true. A unit has limited movement, cannot charge and counts as moving for shooting, but it can still move a bit and/or shoot with pistols, rapid fire and assault weaponry so long as it regroups. All armies in the game are unlikely to fall back, and the same is exactly true of regrouping, and regrouping isn't subjected to as many negative modifiers as other tests. ATSKNF, which sort-of kickstarted this discussion, bypasses the test altogether.

Second, you may have noticed the first system I'm proposing hasn't covered regrouping. That's because I forgot, but here is a chance to fill that in. Units simply have to roll under their Ld to regroup; 1 always passes, 6 always fails. ATSKNF allows this test to be rerolled.

For the second system, regrouping doesn't happen at all. ATSKNF means the inches-carried-over mechanic is skipped, making marines easier for new players to handle.

>>47486662
Regrouping makes you fire snapshots which is why falling back hurts and ATSKNF is so good.

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Thanks, Anon for the new color scheme. Which one of these looks minus the color scheme is the best?

>>47486683
I didn't know about that, good point. Regardless the argument stands. Even if falling back is harsh, it happens too rarely to matter so much. Having it occur a bit more frequently, and dampening the efficacy or upping the cost of ATSKNF, is the opposite of breaking the game.

>>47486740
That's been my argument the whole time. If you want to amp up LD fails, you need to reduce the effects. Even ld8 is a 25% chance to fail.

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So after watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNULgnG-Gss
I'm guessing that DE are a decent army for any Tac games, but utter shit the rest of the time?

>>47486775
What's been your argument the whole time? Where in my last post did I state your argument? I don't think you're reading my posts clearly.

Regardless, you've simply reiterated your stance without providing any reasoning.

>>47486847
My point is that increasing LD fails while still having it effectively remove a units combat effectiveness for a turn is a bad idea. Especially seeing as you seem to think a 25-40% fail rate is low.

>>47486874
Yes, you have reiterated your argument AGAIN. I'm sorry but do you understand the need for evidence?

Are you even in agreement that leadership is a problem in the current game? This is the fundamental issue the entire argument is seeking to tackle. If you're not on board with that then why are you arguing?

How do I run a daemon prince properly? I've never really used them and was going to go with a chaos marine one w/ wings, power armor, black mace, and boon of mutation. Any suggestions for build or tactics?

Opinions on the ghostkeel and how to use it?

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>>47478441
>webtv

Fucking triggered.

>>47487188
>csm
black mace, wings, armour unless tailoring against gravspam marines
>daemons
If you can, run heavy support. Run anything other than Khorne. Flying circus is still damn good barring tau.
>Tetrad
Tzeentch warlord, armour of scorn? on Khornate, run near each other and charge anything you can easily kill every turn

>>47486833
Why would you assume so? They are always bad. They are meant to be good at outmaneuvering their opponents, but vehicles lose a lot of mobility after blowing up.

>>47477539

>but the Header Images exist for a reason.

There's no reason other than autism. If people are too dense to understand how a search function works then the thread's better off without them. At the very least artwork provides something new to talk about. Stop whining.

>>47485441

That's the worst solution. Problem is how widespread fearless and its equivalents are. Nerfing ld stats just makes things even more uneven as Orks get even worse and everyone else just carries on ignoring ld tests all together.

>>47487333
Yeah, we're in a really bad place right now

>>47487498
>overprevelance of fearless
How so? Loyalist Marines and Daemons have widespread dampeners on leadership but that's different.

>>47487498
I think it´s pretty obvious the the anon who suggested lower LD values wanted less or even no fearless units.

>>47477538
Wait, murderwings needs like 3 artifacts. Don't really play SM but can you do that?

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>>47478549
>>47478528

>Needing proof to see the game has devolved into total dogshit

Holy kek

Use your common sense you mindless drone fuckwits.

Though if you still happily eat GW's shit i can see why you might want to keep the blinders on, i would be embarrassed to admit it as well

>>47487627
Thank you, common sense bro. I'm all for Fearless as a rule but it must be more restricted. That doesn't necessarily mean narrower access - it means a mixture of that plus prohibitive costs.

Orks and Tyranids are in about the right place with regards to the rule. But if Chaos Chosen get fearless by default, they should be over 20pts base each. Coupled with the Ld reformed proposed, it'll make fearless units into a tactical lynchpin, to be carefully afforded and meted, rather than an auto-take-for-granted bit of fluff.

The more players have to think about the choices they take, the better. When did any space marine player actually considered taking heavy bolters on infantry? It'll be under an unusual set of circumstances.

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>>47478549

>>47487679
40K is a mess but you're letting the side down by being so heavy-handed and not providing any reasons when asked. Don't make people who share your opinion look bad.

Daily reminder that Shadowsun didn't kill Severax, and instead killed his body double.

It's all part of the plan.

I think the thing I hate most about Space Marines being called space marines is that whenever Ii try to google space marines for images of actual, Halo/Aliens/Starship Troopers type space marines I just get fanatical relgious warrior monks.

Seriously, Space Marines are the worst name ever. Far too plane. Should have gone with Adeptus Astartes, much better.

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>>47487751
pathetic meme

>>47487679
We didn't ask for proof that the game was dogshit, we asked for proof that people were leaving the game, and then in fact provided proof that they weren't, even when the burden of proof was on him.

There are alot of dogshit things people do. 40k is one of them

>>47487707
>Orks and Tyranids are in about the right place with regards to the rule.
You're absolutely mental.

Every proposed fix to leadership in this thread is absolutely abysmal. Half the armies in the game are fearless alien brutes, mindless alien drones, or fearless superhumans. None of them should be crippled by leadership. That said, 40k needs Terror added as a super-fear that affects ATSKNF units, and ATSKNF and Fearless need penalties for losing assault put back in.

>>47485496

Yeah, because 40k needs even MORE tables.

>>47486847

>Accuses anon of not being able to read
>Whilst missing his entire point

Holy reading comprehension Batman! You managed to agree with him and then get confused.

>>47488078
Fearless alien brutes relative to what? Guardsmen with flashlights? Relative to each other the terrors of 40K have as much reason to fear each other as modern human armies do of each other today. Orks and Chaos Daemons for instance both have reasons to admire or fear the killing power of the other. The comparison is almost entirely moot when you recognise we are talking about all factions in the game, not just human v alien monstrousity. Nevermind either that we are talking about LEADERship - Orks, Eldar, Chaos and even Necrons and isolated Nids have issues with hierarchy and who-gives-what-orders.

You list fearless superhuman as an example. If you think it's okay for fearless superhumans to be represented as having few resolve issues, then why do you want ATSKNF to be undone at all? It fulfils its job perfectly, which is making it difficult to beat Space Marines by scaring them.

A Terror rule and the combat penalties, I can agree would be good things. But they do nothing to address the fact that leadership and morale are too minor a factor in the game.

Word to the wise, starting off your argument with ad-hom is shit form. If nobody wants to read what you have to say because you just call them morons, you will be ignored.

>>47488138
>having troubles with tables

>worried about the same table we already have

>>47488195
You've done a great job of pointing out what I'm apparently "missing" there. I'm so on board with your point now, the light of your reasoning hath sway'n my very soul. Keep calling me Batman by the way, I like that.

i remember seeing a battle in whfb where someone failed a leadership test at ld10 with the BSB reroll and had 3 other units flee off the field. perhaps lowering global leadership by 1 and making fallback moves 1d3 would work

also the standard guardsman is pretty fearless for ld7 which is the same leadership as a bloodletter, though the bloodletter ignores morale checks

>>47488202
Yep, definitely mentally handicapped.
>Hurr durr, it has the word leader in it
All it does (with a handful of army-specific exceptions), and all anyone in the thread has been talking about using it for, is units breaking and running. Tyranids in Synapse don't break. Orks in numbers don't break. Space Marines don't break. Daemons don't break.
>then why do you want ATSKNF to be undone at all
I never said that I did. Word to the moronic, don't put words in people's metaphorical mouths if you don't want to get called an idiot.

Morale and leadership are a minor part of the game because so many armies don't really care about them. If you don't like that, maybe 40k just isn't for you.

>>47488297
Hell, if you really feel the need to make Leadership a more relevant statistic, add more actions that rely on it.

Let all units split their fire so long as they pass a leadership check. Suddenly all those boltguns and lasguns and splinter rifles don't go to waste when the units Cannon takes potshots at a Rhino.

Let units take a leadership check to try to fall back in close combat. Suddenly close combat is less of a death sentence for shooty units. Note that you'd still be susceptible to Sweeping Advance if caught, but Sweeping Advance really needs toned down anyways.

>>47477685
AUN ROYR! NO! ALL IS LOST! RETREAT! RETREAT!

>>47477331
How do I git gud at painting?

>>47489477
Post something you painted in /wip/ and ask for help. Then do what they say.

>>47480220
I want all of these

>>47483992
Fuck you
The whole point of the game is that there are supposed to be trade-offs. Tau get fuckhuge tech and the best guns on Earth, but at least they have zero defense against psykers. NOW you want them to even lose that weakness? Fuck off, if anything they shouldn't even get their d6 dice for DtW since they don't believe in magic.

>>47484759
Banshees have Power Swords, the same ones Space Marines use

>>47485016
Read the actual fluff for once and you'll learn that they suffered numerous setbacks
>lost half the Water Caste by trying to initiate diplomacy with Orkz, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, etc
>held a victory celebration with Necrons and got flayed for it
>farsight lead his own, far more successful Horus Heresy and made off with half the Empire
>Demons came and krumped them after they told the populace it was ok to keep their native (chaos) religion

>>47485797
This this this. I think there needs to be far more granularity in leadership in general.
Take 25% casualties checks. How about if you make the by only 1 (so rolled 8 on LD9) the unit is still shaken and has to snap-shot, but can move normally.. If you fail the test by no more than 2 (rolled 11 on LD9) the unit is panicked and cannot take any action on its own, and if engage in Close Combat or charged it takes the effects of Fear. If you fail by more than 2 (rolled 12 on LD9) they fall back as normal

Now every failed morale check is no longer a lost unit at the beginning of the game, when especially fast units are likely to just run off the table turn 1

>>47487608
IG get semi-fearless from Commissar and real-fearless (I think) from priests
Nids are Fearless in synapse, and all of the Tyranid MCs are explicitly fearless even OUT of synapse (though they still take IB checks)
Necrons aren't fearless, but LD10 is tough to crack
SMs are better-than-fearless
And don't discount how much of the game SMs are too. They have the most popular single Codex (C:SM) PLUS Dark Angel, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Gray Knights, and most of the popular Forge World shit.
CSM have fearless cult troops, and IIRC Lords.
So who does that leave who actually car about Morale Checks? Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Guardsmen without any support, Sisters of Battle, some Chaos Space Marines, and the mini-Codexes.
It is actually a longer list of who DOESN'T have fearless than who does.

>>47489912
So in other words a table of morale results not unlike the vehicle damage chart, with Ld as a positive mod and the severity of the casualty loss as a negative mod. I like it, although someone did whine about more tables earlier.

Still, although units are now affected more commonly by morale, they fall back even less than before. The issues present in relatively-common fearless and ATSKNF are not addressed. And someone I was arguing with had (for no given reason but w/e) a problem with morale not because of the falling back (which this makes less likely) but because of the impact on shooting, which this *increases*. They were worried about this becoming too crippling if morale becomes more severe in any way. Now that anon had some sort of allergy to providing explanations, but it's still an opinion that this opposes.

>>47477539
I'm actually more curious as to why it's always Eldar related.

>>47490015
It's not right to call Stubborn "semi-fearless", as units are merely made immune to negative modifiers. This is rarely ever an issue for shooting or regrouping, only in close combat - and then only if one side lost so many more casualties than it inflicted that it would just die next turn anyway. It's still a big hand for a tarpit unit but not really the crux of the debate. The priest does grant full fearless, by the way; I'd be for changing that to Fearless in close combat only.

Nids were covered before.

Ld 10 precisely doesn't count, as already discussed.

ATSKNF has already been accounted. I'm beginning to feel like this is repeating itself. (yes space marines dominate the game, that is why we ought to dampen ATSKNF or make it more expensive)

I suppose Plague Marines are a decent example, but a few units isn't much of a case for fearless.

>So who does that leave who actually car about Morale Checks?
Well Necrons for a start, who are terrified of morale checks in melee. Guardsmen outside of melee/tarpits, Orks in low numbers, the two Eldars, SoB, mini-codices and 50% Chaos. Nids and Daemons are good, and Marines are golden.

>It is actually a longer list of who DOESN'T have fearless than who does.
Pretty much what I expected. The issue is that morale is difficult to trigger, and morale values are generally unvaried.

>>47477538
He tried to fight a mary sue in melee, but ended up fighting her double in melee, and killing that double. There are idiots who still seem to be under the impression that Shadowsun killed severax in melee.

Boop
>>47490166

>>47490325
It's only reading this that I remember - this is a 40K GENERAL thread. No wonder the boneheads here don't know how to argue. All the stupid makes much more sense now.

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>>47484796
If you are a new to painting then imperial fists is a bad choice. Yellow is a bitch. Salamanders are gay.
Go Black Templars. They are easy to paint and there is a very good upgrade kit for generic marines and tanks.Also Black Templars are the most metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW2bqSbbo1g

>>47490399
Ok.