Warmahordes

>>47419482
last thread

>>47425412
Yeah right Redeemer, i was mistaken.
I wanna see Dervish buffed. Really.

>Someone on Facebook complaining about Hex Hunters being nerfed
>They're still better than all Skorne infantry

>>47425522
Its MAT7 and has Parry now, at least.

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>https://www.reddit.com/r/Warmachine/comments/4kqqr0/massive_mk3_faction_deck_spoiler_dump_read_at/

In case someone still needs the cards. Has just been updated with cygnar.

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Retribution player here.

LOL U R A FAGGET

Hey Cryx, your infantry is a joke.
Skorne? Why even deploy?
Cygar? Don't even got a faction deck.
Menoth? Your choirs too busy molesting little boys to work any more. Allah ackbar some where people might care.
Minions? Can't even take half your war beasts.
CoC? Not even a faction!
Mercs? Even less of a faction
Circle? Nice Stalker you had there faggot. Shame your little dog is going to die in a puddle of piss.
Legion? Nice fury management, would be a shame if something happened to it.

The rest of you aren't even worth my time. Retribution master race, we're going to holocaust you like a Jew on his birthday in auschwitz

What's a good starting point for Minions for MKIII?

>>47425649
A pop and drop Barnabus list might be a good start.

>>47425649

Depends. Do you like Pigs or do you like Gators?

>>47425674
Both.

>>47425649
Doctor Arkadius, his feat is super easy to use and his long threat ranges and high damage make him breeze to get to grips with. Carver is also tough and straightforward, Gators need a bit more finesse these days as their mainstays were nerfed.

Based on the Battlebox and Deck leaks who are the winners and losers of MK3?

So since some of the leaked decks seem incomplete, does anyone have any details on the Thunder Chicken (Storm Raptor)?

>>47425784

Well if you want to start with one of the battlebox caster, I'd recommend Barnabas. I think he's easier to use than Helga is. Plus, his feat would allow for a pop 'n drop style list that could make good use of the pig's guns.

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Am I crazy or did Triumph get good?

>>47425857
Would Wrong-eye with a Wrastler be a good addition? Pricey, but P+S 21 War Hogs sound tasty.

>>47425913

Khador seems to have come out pretty damn strong.

Skorne on the other hand...

>>47425954
Still can't melee for shit.

>>47425954
You're not crazy.

>>47425990
Is that really some huge revelation about a Defender chassis?

>>47425972

You have Primal in pigs. Why pay 33 points for Rage?

>>47425972
Wrongeye is super good but the wrastler will make the combo super expensive. Pigs get a good damage buff with the battle boars primal anyway so it's usually not required. Most pig warlocks crank up the damage like crazy anyway so it's probably overkill level.

>>47426009
Defender has 3 more POW.

>>47426033
And? You still don't want it in melee.

>>47426045
Late-game you don't have a choice.

>>47425531
Hohoho it aint so bad. But i want more.
>>47425628
Kekd, nice try bub. Try harder thought.

>>47425913

So far, I don't see any faction that stands out as especially overpowered or weak, honestly, the balance between factions seems pretty good.

Cryx and Legion got hit the hardest. Skorne... well, Skorne continues to be Skorne. Warmachine factions in general seem to have gotten more benefit from the new design philosophy, and Khador, Ret, and Mercs being the biggest beneficiaries (with Menoth and Cygnar right behind them).

I question how Hordes is going to be able to keep up with the 'jack skew that Mk3 seems built to put on the table, but without any games, I'm just theorymachining by myself, so I'm not on the doom train, just right now don't see how it's going to balance out.

>>47425913
I've read Cygnar, Khador, Cryx, and Mercs.
Out of those, Cygnar, Khador are the clear winners.
Mercs is also pretty good.
Cryx got nerfed on all fronts multiple times.
Either these factions are not designed by the same guys, or they just got bored by the time they got to Cryx and tuned everything down to be safe and left it there.

>>47426186
I'm wondering the same thing. Fury was clearly better than focus, but now every caster seems to have a free battlegroup upkeep. How do Hordes compare?

>>47426186
Legion because of Shepherd nerf?

>>47426186
What design philosophy was that? The "lets take all the negative play experiences and skew options and put them in another faction instead" one?

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>>47426218
>he thinks the "decks" are real

>>47426014
>>47426023
Okay, so Arkadius or Barnabus to start with, some Bone Grinders for Fury management and spell boosting, Battle Boar for Arkadius, any other models to make a good core foundation for lists?

>>47426405
>implying they aren't
Yeah sure.

>>47426445
>implying they are
look at >>47425481 it isnt even the right card template

>>47426485
So you mean someone went through the trouble of creating >1000 cards for a prank?

Also that format matches the battlebox spoilers.

>>47425481
i know nothing about warmachine, when will mkIII launch, and will the starter sets be good ?

Stormsmith Grenadiers hype

>>47426598
All the battlebox casters look solid. Not really any bad models in any of them and they come with a full set of rules to boot. Throw in your $30 and give it a go.

What factions are you eyeing up?

>>47426568
its using a warcaster card, with a focus bubble. battle engines dont have focus

>>47426636
Oh I see. So there is still hope.

>>47426636
And Hammersmiths' hammers were ranged weapons in the Forces of Cygnar book. Your point?

>>47426598
End of June

>>47426678
>And Hammersmiths' hammers were ranged weapons
That would be so badass.

>>47426632
1. menoth
2. scyrah
3. other warmachines though cryx more then the others
4. i would play this game because of the warmachines, but the everblight dont look that bad.

>>47426437

Well, the Posse are still solid, if not as good as they used to be.

On the pig side of things, I've always been a fan of Slaughterhousers.

>>47426742
Retributions caster is going to be a great Jack caster and you want at least one Manticore. Definitely worth picking up.

Don't know shit about Menoth, someone else will have to cover you

>>47426742
Good news for you then! Everything is viable in this game! At least it was in MK2 and probably will still be in MK3.

Is there a playstyle you prefer?

Man, I can easily see most Thyron lists running two Sphinxes and a Banshee now. They do literally everything with him. They beat into armour, they chew through infantry, they have serviceable shooting...

And that's like... 17pts, right? He can fill up on all the other shit he likes.

Fuck, it could be that stuff plus a bunch of Gorgons or Chimeras. Just cleave across the board like a motherfucker. They only need focus for a charge on his feat turn, and they generate that themselves.

>>47426632
>>47426762
also you say throw in 30 bucks. does that mean the starter sets are 30 buckaros?

(though what price in euros since i live in Netherlands)

>>47426775
not really, i have 40k eldar for range and specialisation

warhammer ogre kingdoms for SMASH.

lotr warg rider and beasts army for speed.

i dont really know what styles this game has to offer.

>>47426816
New battleboxes are 39.99USD. They're quite the deal.

>>47426787
Retribution are going to be running 3 heavies. Our lies are completely over shadowed. I can't see why I would take a light outside of a chimera which is a hard to lock down arc node.

>>47426816
They're £25 at my local store.

>>47426816
Factions have room to have different styles in them. Retribution can make a shield of meat to just walk up and smash or can be tricksy elves who shoot you through walls and run away. Battlecollege is our wiki, it'll give you an idea of what stuff does.

>>47426851
so why wouldn't i just buy 2 of those ?

>>47426859
what is retribution ?

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>PP spoil that reciprocators kept 8 boxes

>turns out all the CoC medium base stuff did too

>and so did skinwalkers

>pp to skorne players

>>47426878
The Retribution of Scyrah is a faction in Warmachine.

>>47425913

Skorne wins the battleboxes at the very least. Xekaar seems leagues above some of the others on a caster to caster level. As for the rest of skorne...

>>47426878
Elfqaeda.

Basically, technologically advanced elves who are mad that humanity may be unknowingly killing their gods by siphoning off their power for magic, thus dooming elves to end up soulless and eventually extinct. Originally the organization, which isn't openly supported by Ios, the elf nation, aimed to kill all human wizards in order to ease the strain on their assumed sole remaining deity, but it's recently come to light that there's at least one other elf god left and they might now be looking for the others (who inhabit the material world rather than the spiritual plane).

They also recently helped push back an invasion from desert shitmunchers, so they may be national heroes now or some shit.

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Any Mercfags here?

I am trying to think of ways to make thorn gun mage prowl work and there aren't many options it seems:
>Using models with [*Action Cloud] means bunching them up around models that will usually not be stealthed and easier to hit. Also clouds need to be centered on the model using the action, so blasts targeting it will hit the whole group.
>The piper gives concelment but it seems like a waste for such small units. Also I want to play 2.
>Sticking them in terrain will make them was to imobile.

Did I overlook anything?

>>47426952
walk them into a forest

Did points actually get reduced ever so slightly?

50 + 5 was an average MK2 amount. so we expect 110 right? well most casters are +30 WB points which puts them at 105, and there are quite a few under +30 which puts them under 100 which is like having less than 50 points for a list and no jack/beast points

i noticd it was hard fitting shit into lists even with point reduction on a lot of models, fuck.

>>47426951
is this a new faction for mkIII ?

or a hordes faction ?

>>47426952
Shae has Veil of Mists.

>>47427028
It's been a faction for ages.

>>47427028
New Hordes faction next year.

>>47427028
It's a Warmachine faction that has been around for a while.

A new Hordes faction is coming sometime next year.

>>47427060
>>47427028
Fuck, I misread that badly.

Ret's been in since right before MKII.

>>47425990

>criticizing a obvious range jack for not being good in cc....

Dude, please tell me you're retarded or age of 12, other than those cannot excuse such idiocracy.

>>47427105
The problem is that a heavy warjack, especially one that expensive, absolutely needs to be able to anchor a game.

Like, a ranged jack needs to have some ability to close a game out, because he's absolutely going to need to.

And a POW14 jack isn't doing shit to finish a game.

>>47427105
I'll just let that statement of yours stand as it is. Anyone can see how dumb it is without me elaborating.

I am convinced that no one at PP actually plays or even likes skorne.

>>47427188
PP employee here. This is true,

>>47427229
Skorne player here. Eat a dick.

>>47427240
Enjoy your faction :^)

>>47427254
>Skorne
>Faction

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So I totally missed the leaks for the Stormwall. Is it still worth getting for Mk 3, and does anyone have a summary?

>>47427010
A lot of us are noticing we're struggling to fit everything we did in before. Part of the problem is the Jack points are replacing a unit in effect so we're always 1 unit short of what we want while counting the jacks as "free" instead of a replacement.

As someone who only ever played 35 points I'm struggling to find a list I like for 75 points now. I feel like I have an extra unit.

>>47427299
Covering Fire templates went down to POW10, and there's a limit on how many of the little shock pod thingies you can launch during the game.

Cinerators > Bastions?

>>47427299
>>47427466
And covering fire is wall shaped now. Which is a plus.

>>47427229
PP Employee here, this is false.

>>47426232

Legion got nerfed across the board, even on weird stuff like Harriers.

>>47427523
prove it

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>>47427535
there was a general power decrease across the board among most factions in certain ways. Legion is still fine, plenty of things that still work and work well.

>>47427466
>So I totally missed the leaks for the Stormwall. Is it still worth getting for Mk 3, and does anyone have a summary?
>Covering Fire templates went down to POW10, and there's a limit on how many of the little shock pod thingies you can launch during the game.

What that guy said. It got very minor nerfs to its card. The bigger (stealth) nerf is that colossals only get 1 power up focus, while their weight in regular jacks get 3 or 4.

>>47427582
That is not true, a lot of factions are better off now then in MK2.

>>47427608
I will admit khador got some nice boosts

>>47427582

Maybe I'm just salty because I was hoping for our shittier units to have more of a role and our infantry to be more worthwhile.

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>>47427642
There there LegionBro its okay. Just take a break from spoilers for a day or two and try to comeback with a fresh mindset of looking at things as they are and not comparing them to the old. Its hard but it must be done in order to quickly acclimatize to MK3. I'm literally starting legion as my main army in MK3. I know there are alot of things that were lost or changed but look at what we still have and what we've gotten.

>Angelius is still great,
>Nephilim got a slight boost
>Nightlurker is still throwing out wraithbane.
>5 wound med inf isn't too terrible to write them off immeditely
>HOLY SHIT RAPTORS AND THEIR REPOSITION SHENANIGANS

>>47427582
this >>47427608
For minions, I feel better off except for the gatorman posse. Considering all the crap I can do now, I don't mind the gatorman posse nerf.

Wrastler and Blind Walker are just great. Ironback Spitter have Targ poke it in the butt for a second AOE 4 continuous corrosion blast.

>>47427700
>Nephilim got a slight boost
I love two of the 4 nephilim. I wish the Soldier was not nerfed, and that the bloodseer replaced its animus stuff with more magical shenanigans.

Weird changes on orin, I used to take him for anti-cryx and I still may, but he lost his fuck off spells bubble for – This model can immediately negate any spell that targets it or a model within 3˝ of it by spending one power token.
He starts with three power tokens and there's no way to generate more

>>47427759
yeah....The bloodseer kinda gets thrown away just to cause upkeep problems and I dont really see putting it in my lists

Protector is fine, Boltthrower I think is good,
and on the soldier is it the loss of the free charge?

>>47426260
Looking at the cards, there appears to be a strong bias towards making the "basic" warjack (or warjacks) for most factions particularly cheap, which hasn't really carried over to warbeasts as much.

The result is it's significantly cheaper to just get a chassis on the table. At the same time, they handed out field marshal and whole-battlegroup abilities pretty geneously to Warmachine casters, increasing what you get just for putting a chassis on the table.

So because with the right caster, just putting a chassis on the table is so valuable, I'm looking at Menoth jacks under Amon and finding it hard to justify taking anything other than a Crusader because you get so much for just having a *jack* at all, and then the upgrades are expensive relative to the base cost -- and got even more expensive, as the Crusader got a bigger point drop than most.

And then on the Hordes side, the "basic" beasts are more expensive, have worse stats, and in at least some cases they've reduced whole-battlegroup abilities in Hordes (like eKaya lost her battlegroup charges for free ability). And then because of the way Power Up works, a Warmachine caster gets more focus to play with with more jacks, but Hordes fury management got worse, so they've got less to go around to power more expensive beasts.

I play both sides, and perhaps my opinion will change once I get some games under my belt, but Mk3 Warmachine battlegroups seem buffed *above* Mk2 Hordes battlegroups while Mk2 Hordes battlegroups got nerfed.

But time will tell. I'm not on the doom train, but it's changed the priority on my painting table.

Man, MK3 hit some of the heavy infantry pretty hard, huh? Bastions make me want to cry. Cinerators seem kinda cool, though the price is way too high.

>>47427807
Honestly, stopping three spells can be pretty game winning. It's not bad, just not as simple to use, and yea, not as powerful.

>>47426859
Which faction does the "walk up and smack bitches" the best in general?

>>47427958
Previously skorne. Now not so much.

>>47427958
In theory Khador and Skorne.

>>47427966
The Gladiator has retained its damage output but gone from 8 to 14 points. And while the Bronzeback has lost a fury (see: overkill) and the ability to control other titans, it's also dropped from 10 to 18 points. So in short you're a nigger and Skorne can still smack bitches.

>>47427958
Every faction can do that.

Khador and Skorne are the most likely to actually walk, I guess. By which I mean them niggas is slow. But you don't want to run Skorne in this edition.

If you'd rather run up to bitches and smack them, Legion, Cryx and Retribution can do that.

If you want to teleport behind bitches and *unsheath battleaxe* "nothin personnel kid" them, Circle is good.

>>47427807
>>47427807
>Weird changes on orin, I used to take him for anti-cryx and I still may, but he lost his fuck off spells bubble for – This model can immediately negate any spell that targets it or a model within 3˝ of it by spending one power token.
>He starts with three power tokens and there's no way to generate more

My initial reaction as well, BUT thinking about it further now, I'm guessing it will amount to the same thing.

If Orin has any tokens remaining, your opponent knows he can negate a spell... they're usually not going to be willing to just throw away 2-3 focus to get him to burn the token, and just end up going after something else.

It does make him much weaker against magic units like druids and mittens, but that's not what I was usually taking him for anyhow.

>>47427917
I agree with you but I think part of the balance is that beast spam has potential to get out of hand and it costs for that.

Lets say I take 4 heavy warbeasts all at fury 5. On that turn I just unleash hell, push everything to the max and let it all frenzy the turn after to rest my fury. If I've just taken out all of your armour cracking then I don't give a fuck what you do to them or how they frenzy. Then the turn after I can do it again with whatever survived.

It might suck but you have to account for these crazy alpha strikes that Fury allows. On my "oh shit, I do it NOW or I lose" I still only have my 10 (ish) focus. Warcaster + 3 heavy jacks can't make more focus appear. You on the other hand get your warlock and 4-5 fury a beast. So your alpha turn generates 17 fury (3 heavies at 4 fury each + 7 from lock), which is something I can't possibly do.

It won't always be relevant and it may never come up for you, but it still has to be balanced for. Especially when you take scenario into account where your opponent maybe holding the zone with 1 jack or a unit and your beasts can clear it out with the fury bomb that I can't with my focus.

>>47428320
I actually really like this outlook. warmachine is more consistent in its output but they will never be able to match hordes burst. I am however concerned about dealing with the sheer amount of high armor spam that can be incentivized, Like 2 angelli are gunna do work but ....then theres 3 more juggernauts and you're like well what now

>>47427890
Protector and Bolthrower will be in a lot of my lists for sure. But yes, losing the free charge and extra attack from Massacre hurt. So did losing 1 point of power.

With lights like Menoth's Redeemer getting buffed, I held the hope that the Nephilim Soldier would end up being a mini-heavy. There is definitely some disappointment from that.

>>47428440
Looking at it, he's now forced to be a 2nd wave spot fighter/filler because with only 3 fury he can't use his animus if he wants to buy/boost and if you do use his animus and charge you can't really do alot with it. I'm still gunna use him because I like Nephilim but....yeah I think its tricky

>>47428440
Although with consideration, he would be a good flanking unit with a pair of shredders for flank and then if you throw a debuff on a heavy they might actually do work

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I have no regrets

eMagnus 75 point Mk3 list.

eMagnus +28 WJ points
-Mangler 15
-Mangler 15
-Renegade 10
-Renegade 10
-Nomad 11
-Nomad 11
-Rover 15

-Sylys 4

-pEiryss 7

-Ragman 4

102/102

I'm new to the game and wanna start Skorne. Do I just go battlebox? Aiming to get together and paint a 50 point list. Bronzeback titan is a must because hell yes war elephant-man.

>>47428626
>75+28=102

>>47428663

Ah
Fuck

>>47428569
I think at that point I would use a cheaper light for it. I think the Bloodseer could work for it.

Maybe in a year when PP pulls their heads from their asses, the Stinger will be a good flank buddy, letting the Beast Mistress become even more fun.

>>47428410
I agree, Jack spam may become a problem but if it does we will see weapon masters responding to it. You spam jacks, I spam sentinels. One of these is going to win that fight and it's not your jack.

You also get to abuse the lack of jamming units if they spam jacks. Their warcaster has to push up the field to keep his jacks in control. If you have a reasonable assassination range (lets say a walk and a shoot of 16") then you can just have to threaten that range where they need to put their warcaster to support and they're in a heap of trouble.

I would also say Hordes is more consistent but in a different way. If I give my heavy 1 focus because I need 2 attacks to kill your heavy and I fail to hit on my 2nd attack I used focus for then I'm fucked. Activation over time to get my shit slapped. You never have to deal with that problem unless you over extend your beasts. You can always buy that extra attack or that extra damage dice, maybe even both if you don't have another need for fury that turn.

Holy fuck I am talking myself into picking up Circle here.. There's a good deal on a facebook trade group and I'm tempted as fuck to slap people's shit with Epic Kromac and his beast bros.

>>47428626
>>47428663
>>47428675
Isn't he at 102/103? If there are any 12 or 16 point warjacks, he can trade the nomad or rover for them.

>>47428649
You wait for a new edition.

>>47428569
At that point, you might as well get a scythean instead for 1 more point. You're still getting 3 initials, only now you can reliably damage things.

I can't see myself fielding anything other than the Protector/Boltthrower.Even Zuriel got the bat. 18 points for redhot garbage.

>>47428649
Skorne Battle Boxes are always good. Problem is the new edition just fucked with us super hard so wait for the full release to see where we stand.

>>47428858
Skorne's new battlebox is beyond trash. It's the same as the previous one, except the gladiator has lower def, the savage has lower armour, and the raider is fucking pointless in the box.

If you use a unit of Skinwalkers, the Alpha, and Wolf Lord Morraig can you stack gang and flank?

>>47428858
>>47428845
Im litterally so fresh off of the boat I didnt realise there was a new edition. Has this hit everyone so bad or have they just killed Skorne?

>>47428906

Cryx and Legion took it worse but those were necessary.

>>47428906
Somewhere some weren't

The new edition gave Skorne some cool tweaks and changes, but PP literally handed out tons of unneccessary nerfs and gutted some casters.

>>47428818
I think Khador is coming out on top here because their cheap spammy jacks, are also anti infantry jacks. Like SUPER cheap. Like 2 per infantry unit with backup. I would say Sentinels are the prime targets for Mad Dogs.

>>47428925
The poor, poor, Rhinodon...

>>47428925
eHexeris is god tier now though. Control range is doubled for the Razor Wurm, and since he can channel through any beast in his control range, you can literally hit shit that's 40" away.

>>47428843


Nah, not even sure what I could do with the last point. Could upgrade Ragman to Kell but having dark shroud in that big fuck off ball would be pretty sweet.

Could swap pEiryss for two more 4 point solos.

>>47428942
The meta will shift to meet it. At least in retribution you have spells that let you run away when they charge you and you can out range them with 2 pow 20 fists for 18 points and 1 focus point. If Khador wants to spam heavies I'm happy playing Manticores and Kaelyssa. I can stop them charging me and smash their shit in reasonably well.

>>47428981
Yeah he is and so is Rasheth. However they gutted Makeda 1 and 2 while also nerfing Molk Karn. I don't disagree with anything they did to Molik, but the changes to Makeda where unnecessary. Literally just switch their fucking feats and they both become really strong casters. Also Xerxes2 took huge hits in Mobility being 3 and losing his free animus while still being 5 fury.

The BB essentially lost two fury and the the fucking RHINODON and ARCHIDON got nerfed. Cetrati and Acuraii got fucked with no sompensation either.

Zaal2 is a cluster fuck of bad rules that prevent him from actually getting immortals souls.

>>47429046
pMakeda's The Lash spell is a 4" template. Yeah her spells aren't that good now, but Carnage + the Lash will do some heavy work.

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>>47427603
It'll be interesting to see what they make of the design space

>>47428983
Anything with jack marshal? A marshalled mangler looks like a lot of fun. Free charge and use the martial ability for +2 melee damage and 1 additional attack.

>>47429078
No it won't Carnage is melee attack roles.

Pmakeda is a cluster fuck of bad spells and shitty feat.

>>47429189
>Not realising that pMakeda is the new super solo
Razor Wurm animus + 5 stacks of blood quenched. 23 armour bring it fucking ON son.

>>47429022
Then Khador does something in response and yadda yadda yadda.

I think thats a healthy place to be. If its a meta constantly shifting I think thats good.

>>47429220
You're and idiot. Arm 23 is fucking nothing with only 15/16 boxes and no transfers. If you don't actually play this game then get the fuck out and shut the fuck up.

>>47429251
You'd have one transfer.

Lets say MKIII hits and the weekend after you have a tournament that requires 3 lists using different casters. You have to use every list for 1 game and you have no idea what your opponents will bring (but you can pick which list to use after you know their faction).

Who are your 3 casters?

>>47429318
eHexeris
Mordikaar
pMakeda for Karn and to annoy this guy >>47429189

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>>47429297

Not him but...

>>47429318
E hexeris and Rasheth or possibly one of the morghouls.

>>47429318

Bloody Barnabas
Maelok
Rask

>>47429374
pMorghoul seems garbage now. He relied on high def before and lost to every knockdown/auto-hit gimmick in the game. Now his def is lower but his armour isn't high enough to compensate so he's just worse at staying alive overall in spite of Steady. Also losing Overtake is fucking annoying when you can attack 14 times per turn. You could threaten to wipe out an entire unit with just your warlock. Now he can't do that and his spells stayed the same. Like nigger what's the point?

>>47429415
He lost his main weakness whichs is knockdown.

No one cared that he could wipe and entire unit of infantry because it used all his fury and put him a bad position. His spell list is great. His feat is great both defensively and offensively.

>>47429318
Ossyan
Helena
Rahn

>>47428854
b-but ...I love his model and want to get him ;_; why...why pp

>>47429647
Pray that the leak is fake then.
He lost a point of strength and arm, gained a point of mat and def. Lost gunfighter, gained assault.
He lost rof on his breath, lost his chain attack, his animus is now shit. He gained quick work and combo strike and precision strike. But he's now a ps 15 heavy for 19 points.

>>47429755
>>47429647

He could see some use jamming with the new animus, I guess. As long as they miss him, he can ruin charges no problem.
And he kept his bond, thank god.

>>47429755
imo a heavy should have at least one attack that is a heavy killer unless they bring a ridiculously good other option for doing other things. Like any heavy needs to be able to crack armor to some degree and pns 15 doesn't cut it.
>try not to cry
>cry alot

Okay so...I really love the Raek model and looking at its nerf it feels like its really just kicked down to a really lower level and i'm wondering if anyone who has more legion experience can tell me if it still has a place given the recent rumors

this is all speculation of course but im wondering if im the only one

>>47429318
Lylyth3
Thagrosh1
Kallus

>>47429318
Kreoss1
Severius1
Newguy

>>47429046
>Zaal2 is a cluster fuck of bad rules that prevent him from actually getting immortals souls.

That's probably a misinterpretation. Going from the cards, the Extoller Soulward can't actually hand off souls to anything, for example.

Here's praying that Rhyas gets SOMETHING good for once.

>>47430457
Haha, they nerfed her.

How's the faction representation in your local meta /tg/ ?

File: 1461772266944.jpg (97KB, 980x854px)

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>>47430498
>SoCal
>Legionpocalypse, a lot of them are buying into Skorne
>Skornepocalypse

>>47430524
Is that just in Tournaments or something?

I hardly ever saw Leejun while I lived there.
Granted...it was San Diego. The isolated market study capital of the US.

>>47430493
Is that confirmed? Please be fake spoilers or something.

>>47429858

I think it's overall buffed, double control range alone is amazing and I like the new animus better than the old one

Troll players; how are highway men and hunters grimm?

>>47430524
This is a chance for me to pick up lots of Legion on the cheap. I am willing to wait for Legion to pick back up.

>>47428925

I've had the chance to sit down and build lists, and it's looking like for each I'll get the chance to decide to tech against melee, tech against ranged, or take a good battlegroup and let my models die at the rate the opponent decides to kill kill them.

I'm definitely going to buy some slingers.

>>47430835
Remember that slingers are mat 5 and the falre is not an aoe.

>>47429867
>Lylyth3
My Nigga.

>>47430636
She traded Perfect Balance for Parry and Pathfinder... and that's it.

>>47429318
Ossyan
Garryth
Hellyna

>>47430498
Mostly Cygnar everything else is various Warmachine factions and 3 Hordes players 1 Legion, 1 Circle, 1 Skorne.

>>47429318
Gaspy3
Venethrax
Mortenebra

>>47430902

Keep up the rain until your beasts don't have to boost attack rolls when they contact is the concept. Can't afford to waste fury anymore I think, and the table will be full of Def12ish 'jack.

>>47431031
Oh, and Rapport is now double control range instead of free transfers.

Does anyone have the concept art for the stormsmith grenadiers my googlefu is weak, apparently it was shown off for a league.

>>47430948
My Nigga indeed!
Who are your other two choices?

I picked Thagrosh 1 because I would want to see how Fog of War works on Hex Hunters. Reviving Typhon in case I fuck up never hurt either.

Kallus because I like his toolkit. Pretty simple looking warlock.

So I'm trying to decide between my Skorne and my Menoth for mk3. Who should I roll with to maximize my chances in a Cygnar and Cryx-heavy meta?

>>47430615
I've only played a couple times in the San Diego area and it was against Khador and Mercs. Head up into OC and LA and it'll be Khador and Legion non stop.

>>47432433
You should kill yourself for being such a whiny bitch and a terrorist. We know there's like 2 Skorne posters and we wish you could take the hint from Menoth and die in a fire.

>>47432473
Wait, what?

>>47432473
What?

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>>47432473
Calm down there son

>>47432591
I am calm, the threads just dead so I thought I'd spice it up a bit. Got 3 replies all but instantly.

>>47432657

Ah, the classic "I was only pretending". Good show.

>>47428320
Yeah, "lets say" you take fury 5 beasts

They removed basically all instances of fury 5 from the game. And a lot of skorne stuff got dumped down to fury 3. Fury 3 isn't enough to make beasts good when they have worse stats than jacks generally. Fury 3 P+S 14-15 heavies aren't doing shit.

>>47425913
Battlebox specificly- ret for warmachine, circle for hordes

All decks- ret cygnar khador cryx
Hordes- circle >>> lol.

I love all the new design space in skorne. Isn't it great to think how much design space was made by making everything in the faction bad? It sure makes their jobs easier by, for example, taking the underperforming thresher heavy with reach and taking away its reach. Now there's design space for a thresher heavy that does have reach!

>>47433202
They took thresher too.

The more I look at it, the more I think the first six months of Mk3 is going to be the field test, just without calling it that. Their whole "We can update cards on the fly" deal will allow them to radically alter the game based on player feedback.

And that alone I don't have a problem with. It's absolutely true that all of us playing will get them better data than their playtest team can possibly give them.

But not telling us this, and the frank lack of quality control in the cards, both in how rules are written and the drastic power level between casters, makes them feel lazy as shit and dishonest as fuck about the entire thing.

Bugs the fuck out of me if that's their intention.

>>47433378
No, Rhinodon still has Thresher, on ly on 1" range weapon that lost back strike.

>>47433469
We are entering a brand new erra: digital Videogame patches for Tabletop games.

>>47433136
>Fury 3 P+S 14-15 heavies aren't doing shit.

But so is a Warjack with one attack and a single point of focus.

>>47433557
Can you tell me which warjacks have 1 attack outside of ranged warjacks and dirt cheap lights

Because I thought we were talking about heavies here, the examples were about heavies.

>>47433557
I mean, that's good in base nature. Competitive games benefit quite a bit from being updated.

Look at Street Fighter. before digital patches, you got a million rereleases of the same game with minor differences, now you can see them updated on the fly.

It's just that they're taking a pretty fucking lazy route(if the leaked cards are truly the finished product), and loading the balance work onto the player base, without telling them.

so...are they selling decks of cards or are we expected to print them?

>>47433606
Updated cards are supposed to get sold like every six months.

War Room really seems the way to go with the game given their new policy.

>>47429318
>Denny1
>Venethrax
>Gaspy3 or Shade1

>>47432048
Abby2 and Thags2

Style and fun > all imo.

While any one, two, or all three may end up being really good in mk3, those are my favorite looking locks in Legion.

If we weren't restricted to one faction then I'd sub out Abby2 for a Damiano steelhead list. That guy just bleeds style.

File: Shocks.jpg (5MB, 5312x2988px)

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Got my shock troopers painted up in anticipation of mk3.

Still not great at painting but I'm getting a little better.

>>47433581
Well yes I understood that. But even say a Warjack with TWO melee attacks and a point of focus isn't doing that super better.

>>47433598
Yes it is a better thing. Its ironic that so much shit that I complained about in MKII and suggested where brought about this edition.

>>47433665
That warjack probably has a higher mat, higher arm, higher P+S and definitely has more boxes. That warjack also has better support. Half of warmachine has gotten field marshals and in general hordes haven't gotten shit. The warbeast just has volume of attacks and maybe higher def.

huh. the legion lesser warbeast with the stingtails lost the "die if i sting a bitch" thing

>>47433686
>Probably Probably Probably.

Compare specifics. Reminder: Warcaster support is also focus they can't give.

At the moment the game is the most balanced I have ever seen.

>>47433722
>Compare specifics

Rhinodon, 12 points
SPD 5, MAT 6, Def 11, Arm 17

1 P+S 14, 2 P+S 13 open fists
Spiny growth, fury 3, thresher

Juggernaut, 12 points
SPD 4, MAT 7, DEF 10, ARM 20

1 P+S 15 open fist, 1 P+S 19 crit freeze
Power-Up

FYI field marshal doesn't take any resources.

>>47433661
At least you're making the effort. We're all going to get better one day.

>>47433665
Well, yeah but that's just it though: the difference between a FURY 3 beast and a jack with three focus is that the beast pays through the nose in stats for a spell that may not be useful for himself or his caster.

Great example: Legion's Neraph. How often is Lylyth, Sayren, or Vayle going to want to pull all enemy models into melee range? Rarely if ever. Sure having the extra options is great, but I'd rather have the option to just pay fewer points and not have the animus half the time.

>>47433765
Oh you mean that guy. Yeah thats crap design. Completely worthless. The very least he could have reach thresher.

Not defending that guy. Overall I feel bad for Skorne. I did think they needed toning down but not in this way.

>>47433765
And if you complain about comparing a beast with thresher to a jack without, for 3 more points you get a mangler which has P+S 18 thresher and free charges.

And the rhinodon is 28 boxes vs 34 on the juggernaut and 30 on the mangler.

>>47433775
Again applicable to Warjacks as well. Grolar and his wondeful short range, low damage low accuracy gun. But also high output so more expensive.

>>47433812
No I didn't. I just flat out said that Rhinodon was crap and felt bad for you guys. Should I name myself Khadorfag again?

>>47433136
Trollbloods kept their five fury beasts, which is BS.

>>47433849

nah he just didn't update after typing all that out and didn't see your post

>>47433829
>low accuracy gun
>model has built-in knockdown at mat 7 and shoots d3+2 shots in melee

With fleet it has one of the best threat ranges in the faction. The reach jacks threaten 9, he threatens 10.

>>47433877
Like I would sneer at complaints about Nerfing Bronzeback Titans, but the Rhinodon? Was he really all that crazy in a game where Warnouns generally have difficulty defeating Infantry?

>>47433829
That might be a reasonable comparison if there were beasts without animi for us to take.

And yeah, sometimes you want to take Grolar; he's a pretty good jack all said and done. But if you don't need/want a high POW gun on a jack you can take a jack without a gun for maximum stompings. We don't get that luxury with beasts. Every beast is Grolar, even when we don't want him.

>>47433897
Yes, but he comes with a worthless gun. Which is my comparable complaint. I would rather loose it completely (As well as the worthless dual attack that comes with it) to reduce point costs.

Also I believe he no longer has as an insane threat range because heavy Boiler only effects running speed now.

>>47433930
I think I understand your complaint. But the problem is that this is that if you did just have easy stompings, it would decimate Warjacks always because again: Your always runs maximum efficiency at least for 2 beasts.

Its a trouble of getting game balance with two different games when the game design is so different.

>>47433897
Whoops, didn't notice he lost fleet. That's annoying.

But also, that's really interesting. I just noticed dual-shot's wording. When he makes initial melee attacks or a power attack, he makes initial ranged attacks.

This means models with dual-shot don't sacrifice their ranged attacks if they go for a headbutt or a slam or something.

>>47433933
I wouldn't call it worthless. You charge a warlock and knock him over, he transfers the hit, now you pump d3+2 pow 12s into him. Or same with a warcaster and overboosting. Or it means it can charge a light and take it out relying just on its power-up focus for the charge plus its pow 12s.

It definitely has its place. How about Butcher1, getting an additional die on all those pow 12s with feat?

>>47433202
Did you see the Thorn Gun Mages? They're literally nerfing everything in Mark 2 to release new models in Mark 3 that are so good you've got no choice but to buy them. Just be patient for your broke as fuck skorne releases

>>47433982
But so do Animi =P

Im glad we have him as an interesting Jack at the very least.

You can take some joy in the following Skornergy in Khador:

Almost every Warjack in Khador that would benifit from a Jack Marshall (IE getting more damage for its attacks) already have some form of assault.

There was a whole idea of Ragers with the Kovnik until it was revealed they can't charge on their own and already can use their shield guns in melee.

Whoops.

>>47434028
Yeah, I play khador. It's pretty bullshit. He also lost weaponmaster, so he's not even a good combat solo anymore. He's just a 5 point manowar tax that can also slam things 7 inches away, if he doesn't speed the manowar up.

>>47433972
Yeah, I can certainly see the problems.

I just get miffed when Warmachine players get in a tizzy about FOCUS vs FURY without acknowledging that Hordes don't have a perfect system either.

FURY > FOCUS is something of a common theme for complaining in my local meta. It got old quick.

>>47434071
He is now only beneficial in any format too the Mad Dog because his damage bonus aids in tramples. Thats about it.

>>47434104
Fury is a better designed mechanic. And before this edition just having a Warjack at all was a tax.

And your support was insane.

Whilst Jacks had to pay 2 points (ye olden points) for even 1 point of extra focus, you conditioned 5 fury off a time off warbeasts. And that was called "The Risk managment game".

Its different now, but I would say even outside of support and Jacks Fury is a better more satisfying mechanic to use.

>>47434152

Fury's a never-ending algebra problem that bites you if you don't pay a lot of attention to it, anon.

So, I've got an old pewter Cygnar Ironclad Heavy Warjack, unassembled, with the right arm, backpack, and base. I'm missing the left hand with the hammer, however. If I bought the newer plastic Cygnar Heavy Warjack Plastic Kit, are there more than two arms on the sprues so I could stick a new plastic quake hammer on my old model and still assemble a complete second Warjack with the rest of the kit?

Many thanks!

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>>47434211
>Bites you

And Focus is like being handed a tank without any fuel.

Anyway I hope everybody who is hurting for genuine reasons (Like I disliked Legion but some of their nerfs surprised even me) gets help.

>>47434152
I'm not trying to argue that Fury isn't better than Focus or anything crazy like that. In a vacuum it's clear that Fury is better.

But some guys in my meta claim that Hordes was far and away stronger than Warmachine because of Fury. Despite tourney ratings showing us that isn't the case.

It's very annoying to have a really close match with someone and hear a "Man, if Fury wasn't so much better than Focus he'd have won that no contest."
I'm like, "No shit, Sherlock. If my faction had incorporeal weapon masters I'd have won that no contest."

>>47434294
Yeah infantry is overall still better then Warnouns. And Cryx was kings of infantry. And Kings of debuff spells.

Lets see how it is now.

>>47434294
Oh yea, the overall game was balanced, mostly by the quality of infantry on the table.

And in all fairness, Mk3 seems to have a shitload more infantry hate than Mk2 did.

>>47434233
You'll have to make a Defender (or Triumph, using the upgrade kit).

The plastic Ironclad kit comes with a left arm, a right arm, a defender cannon left arm, and then hands / weapons. As as Cyclone guns that attach to the hands.

Hope that helps.

>>47433696
And it also lost innate poison for Crit Poison.

>>47434342

I just need to see the Trample Rules.

If PP doesn't fix them then I hope they step on a tack. That rule is the worst.

"Your model didn't make it by a quarter of an inch. Rewind...rewind...rewind....Oh....OK then. Now sacrifice your action and its turn is over".

And thats before you even had an attempt to hit anything!

>>47434356
It does! Thanks!

>>47434233
You can order parts online I believe. on the PP store.

>>47434364
I'm really betting the trample rules changed, because Xerxis2 and the Ami both got them, and Huge bases were the worst for it, bar none.

>>47434366
Oh, and the bits might not connect exactly. I can't remember exactly, but some of the points where the pieces connect may be broken down differently between the metal and plastic. Was ages ago I build them.

You can buy the missing metal bits directly from PP (it's at store.privateerpress.com), should you prefer the ease / inexpense.

>>47434294
>Hordes was far and away stronger than Warmachine because of Fury.

They lowered threshold, reduced fury stat, made beasts more expensive, and nerfed every unit that removed fury for beasts.

They did this because fury was busted as fuck.

>>47434364
If you do that in Mk3 then it's your fault. Premeasure, slap down a proxy base, measure again, confirm it all works, then commit.

Not saying the trample rules are perfect, because they're not, but at least it's easier when you can premeasure and not waste an activation and fury/focus.

>>47434378

Oh absolutely. The Gun Carriage Trample option may as well have said "You can also sacrifice your combat action to do a amusing jig".

But somehow I have a feeling PP won't do it because it conflicts with impact attacks....Because "Warjacks are Robots and we just couldn't help it".

That was a dig at their reasons for HP if you didn't get it.

>>47434364
>"Your model didn't make it by a quarter of an inch. Rewind...rewind...rewind....Oh....OK then. Now sacrifice your action and its turn is over".
with premeasuring that isn't even a problem

>>47434411
Sure but I would want jacks to at least have some ways of dealing with infantry outside of specifically being made that way.

>>47434393
I'm waiting to see the lowered fury because I don't

>>47429318
Denny1
Venethrax
Scaverous

>>47430948
Oh, that caster with a 30" threat range?
The one that can kill you if you walk 1" out of deployment?

>>47434393
Yes, and general consensus is that Mk2 was roughly balanced in most cases by quality of troops and feats available to each side.

We've seen the beasts get gutted, jacks get boosted, and more or less nothing else change. Mk3 will be Focus > Fury without giving Hordes the tech that Warmachine got to balance it all out.

>>47434731
Just about every Star Warmachine Infantry got pounded.

Banes and Mechanithralls? Pounded

WGI? Pounded

Arcane Gunmages? Pounded

Pretty sure menoth also had guys pounded.

Some beasts may have been unfairly nerfed, but the Warmachine Landscape changed ALLOT. I didn't even mention so many other units.

>>47434698
9" movement + 12" range + 4" snipe is 25"

It's long, but she's on a huge base and only has three spells.

Also, screen your caster.

>>47434731
>mk2
>Balanced

Maybe if you're a tournament dweeb.

Half the models in the game aren't worth taking and if you play fluff based armies, you're either the 1% of tier lists that was OP as fuck or you're total shit because you're not using the one or two crutch units that props the armies up as worth using.

Mk. III might be gutting the game for all it's worth, but at least there's no obviously OP units that are going to see play an every single list that's popped up yet. Give it a few months and they'll be found, but I'm going to enjoy the next couple months of WM/H where people are actually going to be experimenting with new units and interesting lists.

>>47434816
I think at the moment Superstars might be Iron Fleshed Kayzy. But they are overall Pillowish fisted, and pretty expensive overall. Theyw ill be murder to just about all other infantry though.

Like murder murder.

Im not too worried about backstrike bonuses because those mean not charging a target thus loosing a damage die.

>>47434769
>Pretty sure menoth also had guys pounded.
Menoth actually came out really well, IMHO.
Errants traded quickwork, hunter and pathfinder for assualt and unyielding.
For some reason they thought def 14 arm 20 is a reasonable statline.

Zealot changes are harder to swallow, but they were legitimately out of hand.

Duaghters traded 1 point of def for stealth, which is fairly reasonable

>>47434873
Well you guys also had a faction wide decrease to your warjacks mat and rat by 2 points.

Also its 12/18 not 14/20 unless there is some spell or something. This is fro exemplar errants right?

>>47433653
I don't own Abby2 yet. On the list though. I am a big fan of my Abby1.

I usually prefer Vayl to Thags2, but both treated me well in MK2. I just think Thag1 looks cooler.

>>47434932
correct that is assuming defenders ward, which isn't that unreasonable.
Even 14/18 or 12/20 (for ashen veild/arcane ward or invoilable resolve) will be very solid.

Choir nerf is good for the game and greatly improves def based heavies and I'm over it by now. Its also not super needed seeing as def buffs seem less common and lots of models lost a point of def

>>47433765
>>47433906
Meanwhile the Scythean became an infantry blender. Pretty shitty of PP

>>47434989
Eh, overall the game feels exiting again.

Its not fun to field only 1 unit/20 as much as it not fun to face 1 unit/20.

Let loose the dogs of war! And mad dogs look so fucking incredible.

Khador player here. although I'm happy that fuckin' MOW and jack-spam fags got their way, and there will be less whining about those, I'm mighty pissed that they nerfed Kayazy Assassins and WGI in the ground.

I mean, they changed Iron Flesh from a DEF buff to essentially into blast immunity. WHICH IS GREAT, since it allows us to run our more squishy options in the face of the infantry-hate blast-spam meta.
but in turn, they nerfed our non-IFP light infantry to near-useless.

Kayazy Assassins are now MAT6 DEF13, lost native Backstab, and lost the Acrobatics mini-feat.
>but hey, they got Anatomical Precision to fuck over hi-ARM infantry. they're totally good now.
yeah, great! they can now kill all the enemy squishies that noone will take in fuckin' WARMACHINE: STOMPY ROBOTS EDITION!

why give us blast immunity when none of the good choices care about blasts anyway? fuckin' IFP will just shrug blast damage off anyway. it's not like I'm gonna shoot them with auto-boosted Behemoth AOEs.

>>47435116
I think the idea is that any warrior with arm too low to really benefit from +2 arm benefits from the blast damage.
Kayazy immune to blasts will be a big deal into several lists.
Iron fleshed winterguard now survive a direct hit from a reeve more often than not :^)

>>47435116

WGI deserved to be nerfed into the ground and serve as a cheap utility Jamming unit, or as a mobile occasional infantry clearer with investment.

Well Kayazy Assasins also can just fuck up whatever they want. If you don't see the myriad ways to utilize them I feel bad for you son.

They do indeed not do much against warjacks, but they serve massive utility against every single Unit in the game.

They hit very accurately, and deal enough damage to kill anything. They are just high def enough in melee to be a massive bitch as well.

The very nature of going into enemy back-arcks is scenario changing.

Like they are excelent for taking out MOW for example. Especially shocktroopers. Get into the Back-ark, they loose the shield bonus, and thats around 6 damage I believe?

>>47430725
Hot garbage, but scrubs play them because they look cool

>>47434774
She can charge and still shoot. Screen your caster with what? A collossal?

>>47433866
We lost half of them. Both Mulg and the Earthborn went down to Fury 4

>>47435172
>Kayazy immune to blasts will be a big deal into several lists.

how?

>>47435275
Again, outside of Heavy Armor Jacks, Im not sure what they are not good against.

Every other thing seems fairgame to me with them.

Run them WITH a Unit of IFP to have them kill everything else and have the IFP kill the Jacks.

MK III sounds great and all, so what are our changes of getting an IKRPG 2nd Edition book next?

>>47435192
>WGI deserved to be nerfed into the ground and serve as a cheap utility Jamming unit, or as a mobile occasional infantry clearer with investment.
okay, they couldn't stay they way they were, no argument with that. but they lost the DEF buff of Iron Flesh and their native DEF buff from Bob and Weave. why also take their sprays? they die like flies now, at least let them continue to do work.
now they have once-a-game SP6. WTF?

>Well Kayazy Assasins also can just fuck up whatever they want. If you don't see the myriad ways to utilize them I feel bad for you son.
yes, but they used to be reliable troops, even if they died to anything that hit them. there was absolutely no need to nerf their MAT.
I can live with losing the always-on Backstab, by why take away the once-a-game Acrobatics?

>They do indeed not do much against warjacks, but they serve massive utility against every single Unit in the game.
so do all the AOEs we can now spam with no regard to our own troops. or the Rifle Corps, or Doom Reavers. noone's gonna take Kayazy Assassins as they are now. they could at least compensate them with Reposition 3 or some shit.

>The very nature of going into enemy back-arcks is scenario changing.
which they'll do how exactly? that was the point of having Acrobatics. SPD6 with Parry just won't cut it. also, you're overselling the impact of a once-a-game Backstab has. you won't be able to get all of them into the back arcs of everyone for it to amount to much.

>Like they are excelent for taking out MOW for example. Especially shocktroopers. Get into the Back-ark, they loose the shield bonus, and thats around 6 damage I believe?
okay, now how do you suppose to do that? MOW will be bricking up or either stand in a line, or by twos. without Acrobatics, how will you cover enough ground to get enough assassins into their backs?
unless your opponent was a fuckin' moron, you will never get to charge anyone in the back, so you're stuck with boosted POW12s via Backstab

>>47435353
2nd Edition? Very unlikely. Massive Errata? I'm expecting it at this point. All the farrow and gators getting tough seems like a big deal for the RPG.

>>47435296
>Again, outside of Heavy Armor Jacks, Im not sure what they are not good against.
>Every other thing seems fairgame to me with them.
>Run them WITH a Unit of IFP to have them kill everything else and have the IFP kill the Jacks.

or why not just run two units of IFP? it's not like POW10 shooting will bother them much now. and MAT7 CMAs will just do what kayazy would do. and probably better.

>>47435404
>there was absolutely no need to nerf their MAT.
how is mat 9 on troopers in anyway way reasonable

>>47429318
Mordikaar, Raseth, Makeda2

>>47435425
>how is mat 9 on troopers in anyway way reasonable
you mean on non-reach dudes to engage stuff in pairs to get their MAT buff?

>>47435404
>okay, they couldn't stay they way they were, no argument with that. but they lost the DEF buff of Iron Flesh and their native DEF buff from Bob and Weave. why also take their sprays?

I think its to add more value to stealth overall.

>yes, but they used to be reliable troops, even if they died to anything that hit them. there was absolutely no need to nerf their MAT.
You moron, their mat is higher then ever before!

Backstrike bonuses are automatic now! Its no longer Mat 7. Its mat 10 with gang and a backstrike! They can hit Def 17 reliably. Thats INSANE!

>so do all the AOEs we can now spam with no regard to our own troops.

Your just being contradictory and difficult. AOES are not an answer to every single other thing in the game. High armor stuff (Like IFP like you mentioned) shrug off most light pow shooting and AOEs.

>unless your opponent was a fuckin' moron, you will never get to charge anyone in the back, so you're stuck with boosted POW12s via Backstab

Yes. Thats 6 damage without charging.

Your not getting basic maths now.

>>47435246
What is she going to charge bottom of one without failing?

>>47429318

RAHN
GIRL RAHN
THYRON

ELFS STRONK

>>47433202
>the underperforming thresher heavy with reach and taking away its reach
And the easy boosts for the threasher. Don't forget about those.

>>47433469
I couldn't agree more. With as hyped as this change was, it feels fucking lazy. So many hopeless models got 'dropped half a point' and copy pasta'd.

>>47434152
Fury was better than Focus in Mk2, but they balanced the game by giving Warmachine generally better feats, spell lists, Focus stats, and infantry.

Now, Fury is a lot closer to Focus, power-wise, and most of the Warmachine advantages still exist.

>>47435457
>Backstrike bonuses are automatic now! Its no longer Mat 7. Its mat 10 with gang and a backstrike! They can hit Def 17 reliably. Thats INSANE!

dude, I was playing Kayazy almost exclusively for years. the number of times backstrikes were ever relevant in my games were only a handful.
sure, the backstrike rule change is great, but it' not gonna have the impact you're expecting, even with Parry.

>Your just being contradictory and difficult. AOES are not an answer to every single other thing in the game. High armor stuff (Like IFP like you mentioned) shrug off most light pow shooting and AOEs.
so hit them with hi-POW stuff? like other IFP. you know, stuff that you can deliver even without blast immunity and stealth.

>Yes. Thats 6 damage without charging.
>Your not getting basic maths now.
no, I get it. boosted pow12s kill warcasters. whatever.
but HOW are you gonna get those kayazy behind shieldwalling med-base infantry with only SPD6 and no Acrobatics.
and even if you do, you're still relying on your once-a-game Backstab to do work. every other time, they won't do much.

>>47435557
Most of those are bullshit.

A lot of Warlocks had excellent feats and spell lists and Focus/Fury stats were only off by like half a point.

>>47435557
No they balanced the game with ridiculous skews.

In a game where a Unit can be Def 17+ or Stealthy, accurate, fast and weaponmaster you only brought the toughest stuff.

For now the problem makers had their nuts cut off. Warcasters have more spell selection, but that still cuts into their warjack focus budget.

Please bring out specifics instead of general bitching. Some Beasts got nerfed unfairly. Il agree to that. But keep specific.

>>47435595
Except they made some shit beyond insane.

Did Caine2 really need amazing infantry clear on his own?

>>47435586
If that's bullshit, then why was Warmachine the more successful faction at tournaments in Mk2? It sure as fuck wasn't the jacks and the Focus mechanic.

i don't get the skorne doom train. i'm a skorne player and i'm fucking hyped for mk3. we have so much awesome shit. its just RIP Hexy1, Morg2 Mak1, but name a faction that doesnt have a few shit warlocks.

Zaals, Xekaar, Rasheth, Hex2, Mak2, Mak3, X1 all stand as varying levels of good to great

X2 i dont know where that nigga stands, he might join the shit ones or he might be playable.

I bet you skorne got stronger overall in the relative faction standings and the next few months will confirm it

(But the archidon is dead and the rhino was always shit, nothing new on the rhino front)

>>47435462
*i'm sorry, she can kill you if your 1" out of deployment. IIRC her weapon platform ability lets her fail charges snd shoot

Kara sloan can kill you top of 1

>>47435666
Mak1 and 2 are unplayable garbage. Mak3 is great

>>47435581
>dude, I was playing Kayazy almost exclusively for years. the number of times backstrikes were ever relevant in my games were only a handful.
Well yeah, it could only trigger if you spent your entire turn there. Which was nearly impossible.

I mean Im glad you enjoyed your Def skew, but that was overall bad for the game. Skews are bad for the game.

I do see a potential problem with charging.

>so hit them with hi-POW stuff? like other IFP. you know, stuff that you can deliver even without blast immunity and stealth.

This is just being difficult. To be as tough as they are, the IFP are slower.

Im not trying to argue for why to always take Kayazy Assassins. Im arguing that they have a solid place.

Some comboes:

Irusk 1: Grants Reposition, Iron Flesh, Battle Lust,
Irusk 2: Grants Blast Immunity, Battle Lust,
Strahkov: Grants +4 speed,
Kozlov: Grants +2 speed and tactical supremacy.

Sounds like solid stuff to me.

>>47435635
Cryx. I would say Cryx almost singlehandedly skewed shit.

>>47435694
What? Mak3 is strictly worse and Mak2 might actually be better than before. No contest about Mak1 though, probably the worst warlock in the game.

>>47435718

i think the one thing that unites all skorne players right now is their general disgust at makeda1

Theoryinghammering some M3 Khador:
Zerkova1
~Grolar
~Jugger
~Sylys
Doom Reavers + UA
Max Vanilla IFP + UA
Min Kayazy + UA
Iron Fang Kovnik
Windowmaker Scouts
Widowmaker Marksman
Kell Bailloch

Troll with cloud walls, Sylys + Sprays seem fun, Ghost Walked Kayazy Backstab Funtimes, and Kell just seems like a beast with min 6 damange to a column of my choice if he aims each turn.

>>47435718
Honest question as a non-Skorne player - what's wrong with Makeda1? Quicken is good, Carnage is good, having all shield guards is good, and her feat is kind a timewalk that has the unfortunate side effect of being able to be negated by high levels of RFP (though that's more a list selection issue, right?). Still looks decent overall as a feat goes, certainly not "Worst warlock in the whole game" bad.

Love to know how I'm wrong.

Skorne is strictly theoretical in my meta, too, so I have no idea what they do (or are supposed to do, beyond having cool elephant dudes).

>>47435741
Oddly, I kinda like Makeda1. The Lash is fuck useless, and I'm not sure how I feel about the trade of Savagery for Quicken or the loss of Defender's Ward but I do like Subjugation of Will. It'll synergize well with the Scarab Pack. 10 pts. for 40 Arm 16 boxes in Shield Guard is a considerable deal. It would have been better just to gain that spell rather than lose stuff for it.

That said, I'm in the boat for the fact that I think she's quite bad this time around.

>>47435883

Quicken is worse than her old Def Ward, Savagery was a +5 SPD boost when advancing that did a very similiar role to quicken and let you do shit like Cetrati advancing 10" in shield wall.

Carnage being buffed is nice. the only positive change for her.

Her feat is utter shit. complete utter shit. it was a bad enough feat in mk2 where they didnt get to move but got to attack afterwards, but now you bring back a bunch of fucking useless pieces that cant even attack. That's assuming they aren't just killed off entirely as a unit, then they cant return at all.

basically with the exception of carnage her entire spell list was nerfed. Her feat needed help, and people who played her didnt think it deserved a huge nerf bat.

Skorne is still a good faction, but Mak1 is dead.

>>47435883
Subjugation of Will is ass in a faction that is already highly resilient to shooting.

Trading Defender's Ward and Savagery for Quicken is a strict down grade. Quicken doesn't help for shit.

Her feat is ass with the new recursion mechanics.

All they had to do was switch feats on Makeda 1 and 2 while making Savagery say non Calvary models. Molik Karn was already retooled to be extremely powerful but far more managable.

With no more free strike he can't bounce around untouchable anymore. He lost a fury and can no longer 11 fatewalker back with Savagery.

But no they gutted both of them while also nerfing him.

>>47435965
>>47435946
Don't forget that she also lost Combo-Strike.

>>47435946
>>47435965
Ah, so it's more in comparison to the Mk2 version. I checked her card, and yeah - the nerf was pretty fucking harsh. Still don't think she's the worst Warlock in the game, and I disagree that her feat is total shit when it's not that different to Morv2's, but she's gone from looking solid (again, zero Skorne knowledge) to looking "really shitty". Which is a shame.

Cheers, lads.

anyone got hyperion leaks?

>>47436034
+1 Str
Gained Pathfinder (??)
Thresher Cannon has d3 initials, rather then the old auto-fire rule.
36 points

Anyone got any info on the House Lys Healer and House Ellowyr Swordsmen?

>>47435635
How about you provide me examples of Warmachine feats that are so obviously superior that Hordes feats.

Hell, the best fucking feat in Mk2 is on a Hordes caster.

>>47436061

Still doesn't effect medium based infantry with critical? Thats a shame, never will be useful against those troll players.

>>47435946
I've never understood why they thought her feat was good.

Sub is clearly there to make it work, so she can keep the last trooper alive, but that's such a shitty thing to have going on. She should have just gotten Field Marshal Shield Guard if that was what they wanted.

>>47436115
Or Just given her Stay Death instead.

>>47436091
What's the best feat in Mk2?

>>47436149
Morv2 was pretty dumb

>>47436133
Yea.

And don't get me wrong, I like the idea behind her feat. It plays perfectly into the of Skorne's "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" idea. Like, you either leave her army alone, or you try and do a bunch of work and don't get anything done because she brings them all back.

But it just doesn't work that way. Even ignoring the problems with shit not being able to do anything when it comes back, the forfeit clause on both feats just meant you aren't actually going to improve attrition, because your army just fucking sits there for a turn, and then they kill it again.

Like, your feat is supposed to change the entire game state, give you a huge advantage, and hers just does fucking nothing. I don't understand why the clause, especially given how easy it is to counter simply by being good at killing things.

>>47436149
Krueger2.

>>47435883
The actual explanation is longish so let me give you the short version:
a) Mak1 was not all too good in MK2.
b) They removed two of the three spells that made her okay in MK2.

>>47436022
>Still don't think she's the worst Warlock in the game
Who is worse than her?

>>47436171
Thats why I want her, especially now, to have be the version with Elite Cadre and Stay Death. You try and kill her swordsmen so the vengeance or get stay death'd. You feat to bring them back and then have to clear them out again and risk more vengeance. This also gives us reason to use swordsman over nihilators.

However upkeeping Savagery and Defender's ward while also using fury for the New Stay death leaves her vulnerable on camp so she can be assassinated. Especially if Defender's Ward isn't on her.

>>47436022
Morv2's feat lets them do shit the turn they come in, Morv gets to control it, and Morv has a mechanic to keep models alive so that she has something to feat on.

On a side note, I'm annoyed as hell at the direction they took Marketh. Like, it's a decent idea to work on Fury 5 warlocks by giving them a way to cast their spells at not their shitty spell level, but it's still stupid and a bad way to do it. Fury 5 warlocks need some serious shit to make up for the fact that they're Fury 5, and that wasn't it.

>>47436149
Denny1. Krueger. Harbinger. Haley2. Denny2 (pre-nerf). I'm probably forgetting a few.

>>47436158
But not only due to her feat. It was just one part of a fucking broken package.

>>47436253
And let's not fucking forget that Krueger2's feat made it through all but unchanged in Mk3.

Like, what the fuck.

>>47435883
>what's wrong with Makeda1?
In Mk2 her power level was average. A good solid starter warlock, but not amazing. PP has taken her average spell list, made it fucking GASH, then made her mediocre feat strictly worse. She's honestly a strong contender for the game's worst lock/caster now. UNLESS, that is, we're underestimating 4" templates, since she can drop 2 per turn at 12" with a Shaman handing her jewelry.

>>47436263
SPD debuffs might not stop charging anymore tho

>>47436317
They don't. It's confirmed.

>>47436317
That was just the final kick to his feat, not the main part of it.

>>47436061

Feels like its a underachiever for its points. Looking at the conquest and the like, 2 d3 attacks and a mediocre blast isnt much for those points.

File: 1418146690526.png (739KB, 1251x713px)

739KB, 1251x713px

>play my third and fourth games of Warmahordes, this time against non-friends
>the first guy takes a flood of Banes
>blows hot air about how I should be glad he's "taking it easy on me" while I fail to come up with a way to stop an army that phases through all terrain while being impossible to shoot
>the next guy I play constantly reminds everyone in earshot that this is his "fucking around" list while tracking everything out of sight on his tablet app, fudging stats (in a faction mirror match, really?), and refusing to tell me how many boxes are left on any of his models

That journeyman league next month can't come soon enough. Hopefully there will be attendees that aren't locked in permanent tourney-mode.

>>47436263
SPD debuffs not preventing charges is a pretty big stealth nerf to his feat.

>>47436339
This is terrible of me but damn does it feel good when people are comparing to you because of how awesome you are.

Conquest sure wen't from utter suck to a motherfucking truck.

>>47436340
Welcome to Warmahordes, where tournament-mode is the standard and everybody has to play like they got a pair.
Hope you enjoy your stay.

>>47436339
Given the ranged buffs in faction, it's gotten a lot better, really.

>>47436340
I paint the bases of my models different colours to show my opponent what they are. Warlocks are red (Skorne), solos are purple, unit leaders are gold. I also have letters on the back of the base to help with multi-box infantry as well as beasts I'm using multiples of.

n____n

>>47436387

Well, that may be taken in to account, but it also requires you to play the "right" casters when fielding your colossal. In difference to other teams such as Cygnar, Khador and the like who simply got a rocking Colossal to begin with.
I don't want to be forced to play Ossyan to get my value out of this thing, thats all I'm saying.
Had it at least benefited from a tad longer range, and a critical consume that effected small AND medium sized infantry models, it could have been worth it.

>>47436317
Speed debuffs don't stop charges, but he got Rebuke. So he like professionally doesn't give a fuck. Kills or blocks your beasts and jacks, Rebukes your units, wins on Scenario. He's actually better then before, IMO, though his forces did take some hits (Druids, Stalker, etc).

File: 1463197875639.jpg (66KB, 437x437px)

66KB, 437x437px

>>47436340
I always feel bad for people in ANY corner of the tabletop hobby who have to deal with WAAC faggos as a default. My two best friends from high school are into the game, and I jut moved to an apartment that's two blocks from a really solid game store.

Granted, my friends are into this nerd shit because I got them there, so maybe talk some buddies into getting battle boxes at the end of June? $40 is a pretty low entry price, and battle box games are swingy enough everyone can have a good time as long as that one kid doesn't play pDenny and a ton of arc nodes.

>>47436432
Il say this. The conquest was terrible before.

Upping the damage to 10 per AOE is what gives it actual environment control.

+1 STR means its even MORE lethal even though its accuracy is still eh.

Victor is much more Similar to Hyperion. But sort of like reversed faction.

Its Hyperion (Scyrah) with 1 single effect. Its Victor (Khador) with a huge stack of different toys....Even though they will never hit directly. Oh well.

Since we're talking about colossals, the Mammoth is garbage now right? Going from 4" to 3" blasts is a pretty huge deal.

>>47436407
>practical base painting
<3

So, many heavy infantry lost three boxes, how do we deal with it?
I mean, I can only speak for PoM, as CoC, my only other faction with heavy infantry, didn't get nerfed, but the change to Exemplar Bastions is heartbreaking even discounting the lost boxes. The Exemplar Cinerators seem cool, though for that high a price they really could have done with Shield Wall like Man-o-Wars or Reciprocators have.

>>47436474
The +1RAT at least helps it hit shit, but with Flare not being an AOE, yea, it is.

I have no fucking idea why they're scared of shooty Gargs

>>47436485
As a Skorne player I deal with it by throwing a bitch fit because Cetrati are fucking garbage now and you may as well bring fucking Karax. Not only did they lose 3 boxes, but they lost a point of armour which is worse than losing another box. The only recompense is that premeasuring might turn out to be a huge Incindiarii buff since now you'll be able to drop blobs exactly where you want them to give yourself the best chance of shitting on infantry.

>>47436461

Hell, id even go as far as to say Hyperion should have RoF3 straight of the bat, in addition to the things I mentioned above, and it still would be in line with the rest of them.

>>47436453
I sometimes wonder why Warmahordes seems particularily inundated with these kinds of assholes. I mean, I'm sure every wargame gets its share of jerks that love nothing more than crushing a newcomer, but it certainly seems more prevalent here. It certainly was the same for me starting out.

>>47436485

as skorne the best way to deal with it is to pretend Arcuarii and Cetrati dont exist and just continue to bring Incindarii whenever you need fire AOEs because Incinds are still useable and still have one of the best in faction infantry guns

As a Khador Player the way it looks like to me, people are just going to end up taking the Bronzeback Titan, and molik karn anyway.

>>47436604
Karn is useless without Sidestep since that's where a lot of his assassination angles come from. Your problem then is that 1) Makeda1 is trash, 2) Makeda2 has nothing for him, and 3) Makeda3 is a bad super solo.

>>47436604
>Bronzeback Titan
4 points to give your gladiator +1 to hit and damage and a shitty animus? Yeah no.

>>47436635
And +1 damage to all attacks. And chain attack. And countercharge. And fury management for other titans.

>>47436621
So Just Bronzeback Titan?

Im not a Scorne Player. Im just saying that theoretically, this new edition should be liberating, not just cutting down your options even more.

Like I heard some people say they are just going to take Behemoth again but I say they have no imagination.

A neat trick is Devastator+ Maurader. Because the Maurader can't be knocked down, a slam too it means it just extends range.

With a regular slam to avoid dealing damage, the Devastator hopefully can be slammed and kill a bunch of infantry, then open up and kill the rest.

>>47436651
You, uh, haven't read the Skorne book, have you?

"Options" in Skorne means "They made everything way worse."

>>47436646
>And +1 damage to all attacks.
Which I mentioned.
>And chain attack.
Which is extremely unreliable.
>And countercharge.
Which is extremely easy to counter.
>And fury management for other titans.
Yeah no. He had useful Fury Management before. Now he can replase a single Beast Handler. Whoopdifuckingdoo.

>>47436662
No I understand. Im patting you guys on the back. Believe it or not I quit MKII because there where no options, and the jacks all sucked mostly.

I can sympathize.

>>47436662
You're not following the PP lingo. They didn't make everything worse. They opened up the design space.

>>47436663

extremely unreliable? Mat 7 vs def10-12 heavies is almost guaranteed...

>>47436651
The thing is, right now the Gladiator is SO FUCKING CHEAP that you can just bring them as a generic armour cracker and not give a shit. So many warlocks in Skorne have ways of increasing MAT or decreasing enemy DEF that the Gladiator being MAT6 isn't going to be that big of a deal.

>>47436674
No they made everyone spam Gladiators because 7 points is nothing for something with that much damage output.

>>47436689
>No they made everyone spam Gladiators because 7 points is nothing for something with that much damage output.
Don't worry. Khador and Cygnar only pay 6. And don't need beast handlers.

>>47436685
Through all of MK2 the Chain Attack has never mattered for me. The only targets you need that extra attack against are immune to it anyway.

>>47436702
I'm pretty sure a Gladiator has much better damage potential in an average game than a 6 point Khador or Cygnar jack.

>>47436520

There is a clear difference of being a jerk and playing this game as a tournament game.

The guys in the original example is your typical "Ill prepare for a loss" excuse player. Who starts to say shit like "Oh, I'm just fucking around" or immediately starts to whine on what you brought to the table. This is, so in case they loose, they will have a bullet-proof excuse when simply referring to the earlier statement. Its a defense mechanism so to speak, just so you can say "I told you so", if things don't go as planed.

but I expect any player to try to win when I play them, otherwise they wont be worth my time. Even the lowest of newbies should aim for a win, and thus making them a "win at all cost" by default kind of player. Granted, they will have limited experience and recourses.

But Id play a good sport, who bring a tournament list to the table, clearly aiming to win, but playing a fair game using the rules and recourses at his disposal, and loose or win the game knowing I did so fighting a real challenge. Rather than facing of against a fluff player who starts the game whining on what I bring to the table in a "oh, great, so how am I supposed to beat that?!?", ending with a "I told you so!".
Not all who brings good lists to the table are jerks, and not all who plays fluffy hug lists are good players, thats all I'm saying.

>>47436769
You don't seem to understand "win at all costs."

These players will do anything to win. Including cheating or underhanded grey-area things just to eek out a win. Even if that win is against a new player that they would have beaten anyway if they just played the game without being a douche.

>>47436769
Sure, true enough. But the issue here are the guys that play *any* game like their fucking life was on the line. With a new guy you show some slack when it comes to things like activation order, measurements and the like. You don't just pound his troops into the ground with a list and/or tactics that even an experienced player would have to struggle against, and you certainly don't go around using some absurd assassination run a new player has no way of dealing with, let alone expecting it. I mean, okay, maybe do that once as a kinda funny learning experience, but otherwise you just dial it back a little. There will be plenty of time to stomp the guy flat once he has some games under his belt and things are can be taken more seriously, but if you do that on the first few games chances are he'll just never come back in the first place. And, considering the game really needs some new blood, that's the last thing we should want...

>>47436856

a WAAC player is one thing, being a cheat is another. Its strange how much a word can change meaning over the course of time.

Many people will agree that a WAAC player is what you describes them as. But there is also a lot of people out there that will toss the phrase around at anyone, meaning "you have a better list than I do".
For instance, I like playing the game with tournament rules, I play good lists and always field fully painted. I have been called this numerous times, not because I cheated, but because I insisted that we followed the rules as written and my list composition.
Thus it has degenerated to a word that puts a "morale standard" on the game, giving you a set of un-official rules that says "you can do this, but don do that", that players will throw about when they find your list hard to beat.

See, its meanings are many, and to a great many people. To say "no, this is the legit explanation of what a WAAC player is" is just as stupid to try to use the word itself. And I think that was the point of my last post, as you didn't seem to get it.