Age of Sigmar General

First for Kroak

I hope when the new slyvaneth come out it's still possible to make an army entirely of tree-dudes. I wasn't a big fan of the half-elves in that artwork. Did seem to be dryads/big dryads with weapons (one with a glaive, one with a bow) in the allarielle piece, so hopefully it's possible.

Sadly after the excitement of silver tower we're in a bit of a releases lull, with just that hero box, then the next two weeks are paints and 40k terrain.

>>47420245
apparently there's a whole bunch of stuff coming in june.

How good are the Forge World units for AoS?

>>47420393
Mournghul can solo small armies, the rest are pretty much equal to normal monsters though.

>>47420290
Jolly good.

Yesterday, we played our first Silver Tower trial with my friend. He was playing Mistweaver Saih, and I was playing the Darkoath Chieftain. We really enjoyed it and I have to say it was very challangeing sometimes; we almost literally wiped at the 2. chamber. Everything is totally random, so I think it has a good replay value. There were lots of different enemies and unexpected events, one of the latter was game changing, even. Few notable events:
>2nd chamber right after the ingress. 2 Acolytes and a Pink horror. The acolytes managed to summon another pink horror right away. I ended up on 4 wounds, while my friend struggled to keep up and he ended up on 2, but we succeeded after all. I rolled well for the enemies, badly for myself.
>Halfway through the quest, we bumped into tenebreal shard who helped to punch this and that, but then he just disappeared without a word.
>In the grand chamber after we just entered, spawned 4 blue horror and 2 acolytes. The acolytes managed to summon one pink horror yet again. It took quite long to slay them all and again, we were on the verge of defeat, sweating. So 1 pink horror, 4 blue horrors = 6 blue horrors=12 brimstone horrors + the acolytes. They just kept coming!
>Right after this an unexpected event happened and our heroes felt that strange, godly beings are controlling them so they refused to act, thus we couldn't rotate the laser beams in the empty chambers. Right after this, a pink horror appeared just to annoy us.
>After that, an unexpected event happened and I 'luckily' received a gift of Tzeench in the form of 3 wounds and a treasure.
>The gaunt summoner came in along with the 2 familiars (due to the destiny dice) who prevented us to use items and skills. Great. I charged in while my friend tried to catch the familiars in hope that their effect will go away; and he did!. I tried to heal meanwhile.
>The gaunt summoner almost knocked me out, it was only my armour save potion that helped me survive.
cont.

>An unexpected event happened, and from behind the statue of tzeench, Tenebreal shard appeared yet again only to maul the gaunt summoner from the back for like 3 damage.
>I kept on attacking him and fortunately he didn't summon any allies. As he was weakening, he kept missing with most of his attacks.
>My friend landed the deathblow on him with his spell. Tenebreal Shard disappeared.
Some afterwords:
If it wasn't for our strange companion, we would have died straight away with me starting the fight with 3 wounds in.
The destiny dice is really cool, although you will always, always roll doubles and most of the time, familiars will come in. What I didn't like is that we managed to get some items and skills and by the time we managed our way to defeat the summoner himself, we couldn't use our hard earned skills and items due to those particular familiars on the board most of the time.
The gaunt summoner is a beast, but yeah, he is a glass cannon.
Perhaps we should have moved around a bit more, to and fro between different chambers to avoid the familiars' effect for example.
The Darkoath chieftain's extra renown ability is plain hard. The maximum amount of wounds I managed to cause in one turn was 6. (Ok I rolled ridiculously bad throughout the game.)
The game is fast with some epic heroic and narrative moments and tactical decisions.

>>47420570
>>47420494
Very interesting read, thanks.

I think you should have waited out more recovery phases, like right before summoning the summoner, as all the familiars skedaddle in a recovery phase.
All in all, you're perfectly right, the game is very luck-based. Sometimes the destiny roll can screw you over, sometimes the roll on the encounter table can screw you over and sometimes the behavior roll for the Acolytes just decides to toss another Pink Horror at you.
I'm also glad it's nothing special to almost get wiped in the first real chamber.

>>47420494
>>47420570
>>47420753
So that guy in the last thread wasn't joking when he said "It's like a tabletop Binding of Isaac".

Since I like roguelikes, that's me 265 OzBux shorter (unless one of the guys at my local group gets it and shares).

>>47420753
>I think you should have waited out more recovery phases, like right before summoning the summoner, as all the familiars skedaddle in a recovery phase.
Doesn't matter, they reappeared at the destiny phase when the summoner was already on the board.
What I like, the AI is simple and it works, you don't have to worry too much about it. Also, one player being the runemarked can make certain decisions for monsters and this really gives the feeling that the heroes are not allied, but are forced to cooperate. What I really liked is, that you can wait with your turn. This gives you a lot of tactical options as a group.

Hope this general isn't swarmed with shitposters again.
Played my first game with the stormcasts.
It was a stormcasts vs demons, we played a simple game of "kill the general". the general couldn't be target of any ranged weapon or magic.

Great fun, i really need a lord-castellant to buff their save, the prosecutors move a lot but otherwise are...meh and the dracoths..THE FUCKING DRACHOTS
HOLY SHIT
they are insane. Just insane. I fielded fulminators and on the charge they are just WRONG. d3 attacks 1 or 2 mortal wounds? 3 attacks 3+3+ 3 damage on the charge? Holy shit.
The celestant prime...is okay. i used it wrong ad did basically nothing-most aos games lasts for like 4 turns so he really cant get that many attacks without beign out of the game for most of the battle.

>>47421018
Which Prosecutors? Hammers or javelins?

>>47421038
hammers. their ranged attacks are not enough to really hit and damage anything, and on clsoe combat they just die horribly. I guess if I field more i can use them to fly around the battlefield hammering whatever's needing extra damage, but cant do much more.

>>47420570
>>47420494
Thanks for the report!
WHQ seems pretty fun, for the the best point is that you can use(almost)any heroes from wh range. Fielding Your Dudes in the quest for the mystic towers is just amazing.

>>47421063
I'd recommend the javelins myself, due to their being better at range than up close (why are the hammers doing the opposite?) but I don't think they're much better than the hammers honestly.
At least you're incentivised to stay the hell away with javelins.

>>47421143
I'd say the javelins are drastically worse.
First, they have only one attack in melee that is infinitely weaker than what the Hammer-guys get to work with and while their shots are better, they only shoot once, making their maximum damage barely better at range and worse in melee. Second, they can't double up on weapons and are stuck with the shield, which kinda sucks as those shields only benefit stuff that doesn't outspeed Castellants. And finally, they don't come with the starter box. In fact, if you split a starter box with a friend, you get the entire content for 5 bucks more than a box of Prosecutors alone would cost.

>>47421063
>>47421143
I kind of think a hammers prosecutor unit is pretty much a delivery vehicle for the prime with a grandweapon, the others might get a wound or two but really it's him that's going to be doing any real damage.

>>47421018
>Hope this general isn't swarmed with shitposters again.
Seems to happen sporadically, and more often when there isn't news/leaks :P. We had a good run of a few days where there was as little shitposting as is possible on /tg/ and people forgot how to deal with it when it came back.

>>47421220
The thing is, if you compare Hammer-Prosecutors to Hammer-Liberators, they're much better model per model and wound per wound, but you will never have equal numbers of them, as Prosecutors come in boxes of 3 that are more expensive than boxes of 5 Liberators (and they pretty much toss those snap-fit Hammer-and-Shield Liberators at you at every fucking event).

>>47421290
True, although a small bonus is that the starter set prosecutors have flat connections between their arms and shoulders, so it's easy to put weapons from the 3-dude box onto them.

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I thought to use this model for a conversion as saurus knight, but I don't know if they are to big.
Some anon know if it's possible to do it or If I must find another solution?

>>47420189
>Bastiladon on the same tier as god units like Mannfred and Thundertusk

Nah

>>47421326
Hm. I found it easy for the Prime as his arms connect exactly the same as regular Stormcasts, but I've been struggling with the other two. Maybe I just suck at converting..

>>47421399
Nope, not at all. 3+ save unaffected by Rend but totally affected by Mystic Shield, 4+ save against anything that ignores his bullshit save, almost as strong as a Vampire Lord in melee and 2D6 damage 2 shots with a range high enough it'll be firing turn 1 and can buff Kroxigors simply by not dying.

Nope, totes not a god tier unit, just as shit as all the other crap in the Seraphon army, like those useless Chameleon Skinks or those awful Ripperdactyls. That's how shit a Bastiladon is.

>>47421513
Stop being such a pedantic faggot

Bastiladon is High Tier but it's not as good as God Tier units like Mannfred or the Thundertusk.

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So I ordered a bunch of those heads and will be getting greenstuff and a box of liberators later to start my Femcast Eternals project. Been toying a little around with photoshop. Basically I want to replace the bulky chestplate with a greenstuf tabard and cut a few unneeded bits away on the leg parts. Hopefully that will give them a slightly more female frame. Thoughts on this?

>>47421602
You really overestimate the Thundertusk. Yes, it deals 6 Mortal Wounds on 2+, but only so long as it hasn't suffered 3 or more Wounds, otherwise it's D6, so infinitely less reliable. The To Hit-penalty only comes into play in melee and in melee it's nowhere near as good as the Stonehorn. It also doesn't have any defense against mortal wounds and crumbles at the very sight of Rend and all those damage-off-of-Bravery attacks are pretty dangerous for it as it only has Bravery 7, not 10 like all the fucking Seraphon.

Yes, it's also a great monster, but calling it better than a Bastiladon is simply and objectively wrong. I'd call them equals in fact.

And yes, Mannfred is in a whole different league as either of them, with a bullshit buff aura, two casts a turn and four weapon profiles, three of which are devastating and a potent unique spell that can really put the hurt on a cluster of enemies.

>>47421399
>>47421513
>>47421705
AOS power discussions are so fucking useless because there's no balance to frame it around
We can say that my homebrew dickmonster is the strongest in the world because it does 100 attacks every turn, but it doesn't matter because that's not the point of the game at all

>>47421705
Pro Tip:
Keep thundertusk away from shit. Enjoy your 6 mortal wounds every turn

Bastiladon shooting is good but it is not reliable at all. You need to get through so many layers of RNG (2D6 attacks, only 4+ hits, 3+ wound) and then it only has Rend -1 so the best way to get consistent value from it is to hit infantry with 4+ or 5+ saves.

The Thundertusk can pick a hero and has a 83% chance to instantly delete it from the game.

...and that's with only one Thundertusk. People are starting to bring 2 or even 3 because that gives them a ~70% chance to delete any <12 wound unit/model.

>>47421793
>two large monster units with strong ranged attacks
>NOPE YOU CANT COMPARE THEM !!!

Fuck off retard

>>47421702
If you can pull off the conversion it's gonna be a nice change of scenery from the regular Stormcasts. They are even more boring than GW's Ultramarine studio army.

If you fail it's gonna induce cringing though.
Prepare for the whole boobplate thing.

Just out of curiosity, what size of the heads did you pick? They come in three sizes afaik, so you could theoretically use smaller ones if you make them look shorter as well as slimmer. The regular AoS dudes come with regular GW sized heads even though they are closer to 35mm in scale.

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>>47421864
I took the heroic scale ones. According to the homepage they are the same size as imperial Guardsmen. The other two sizes seemed significantly smaller and would probably looks really goofy on the huge, bulky stormcast frames, pic related.

>>47421842
Okay, I get your point. Maybe I'm just biased because I play Chaos and the stupid Bastiladon has bonus damage against half my army.

Though I still think people overestimate the Frost-wreathed Ice. Yes, it can delete any Hero it can see and is in range for, but 30 Wounds of Blightkings/Stormvermin will see it as a mild annoyance at worst.

So let's call the Thundertusk the Hero sniper and the Bastiladon the unit griller and have done.

>>47421702
Sorry, but the huge emphasis on broad shoulders means Stormcast will never look anything but hyper masculine.

Are Ogers (Ogors) too tough/buff? I'm asking because I play Beastmen and every game I have faced against Ogers I have always been annihilated. And then there is the fact that in order to beat him I need groups of 20+ gors and bestigors, but that just enables him to force sudden death for the game. That makes it even harder for me.

>>47421926
>So let's call the Thundertusk the Hero sniper and the Bastiladon the unit griller and have done.

Yeah I can agree with this.

I think what makes Thundertusk God Tier is that Destruction has other ways to deal with swarm units so the 6 guaranteed Mortal Wounds fills a niche exceptionally well.

>>47421955
If you are playing equal model count, then yes absolutely the Ogors are going to crush you.

Try playing equal wounds, or use one of the point balancing systems here: http://www.scrollbuilder.com/

>>47421702
How hard is it to convert stormcast? I want to use prosecutors/liberators as crypt horrors and flayers, would it be hard to change some armor pieces and hands/heads to make them more piecemeal and corroded?

>>47421955
Let's be perfectly clear here. Someone who plays Ogres and insists on using Sudden Death is a giant cuntmuffin.
Either you simply bring a shitload of Bullgors/Minotaurs, you play scenarios that don't use Sudden Death with him or you don't play that guy anymore.

>>47421998
You can scratch up the chest plates and helmets fairly easily, but taking the armor pieces off completely is simply not an option. You can rip a hole into a shoulder pad and then glue the broken shoulder pad on, but you can't leave it off. Other than that, scratch it up good, paint it, splurge some Typhus Corrosion on, dry-brush with orange to get some rust going, that looks amazing.
And if you want to clip some parts off and convert the weapons, that's incredibly easy.

>>47421277
>:P

Piss off.

>>47422089
>Piss off.
:^)

>>47422075
Yeah, I was gonna use some ghoul/horror heads instead of helmets, other helmet types, snip off weapons and replace with bones and crude spears, paint up some rust, and maybe add some broken armor pieces or "fixed" with old shields and stuff - not all of it though, I want to do it a little sublty, the idea is that they're a ghoul army that believe themselves to be noble knights like the battletome. Courtiers are noble golden commanders, ghouls are steadfast men-at-arms, and the battletome says the flayers believe they have enchanted pinions gifted by their golden lord, works fine with prosecutors. The only thing is I'm not sure that Horrors should be knights or stormcast, the description didn't give me a clear path in that. But knights might be too "small" and not really fit as monstrous infantry, something the stormcast do well. The bigger monsters will have to be the real deal, as zombie dragons and terrorgheists are hard to fix in other ways, except maybe for the gamezone/old empire griffin lords.

>>47422216
Well with the monsters, you could always try using a "living" dragon, as the 'tome mentions the Ghoul Kings used to have living dragons and not-undead Terrorgheists in their stables. Or you take the Vampire rider's legs and graft the upper body of a Stormcast/Empire general on it, so that it gives the appearance of an undead mount (they ARE in Shyish, after all) with a living rider.

>>47422540
I have an old metal empire griffon and a terrorgheist, so I'm gonna use the vamp lord conversion as a rider on gheist anyway. Thanks for the tip tho!

June in next week and we have no single sylvanet photos wtf Gw?

>>47422939
We don't normally get leaks more than a week out, and pics have already leaked for the next WD. Also some pics for the one after that, but only two or three, there could be more.

>>47422540
For the foot knights, I want to make them dark souls-esque, like one anon did one, using two-hander weapon conversions. Does anyone know if it's easy to fit new two-handers and heads on the starter set liberators?( since they're cheaper I guess?) for liberators I guess it's just a matter of head swap and a hand snip for weapons.

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>>47422995
>>47422939
Next week's hints, incidentally.

>>47423013
We alredy should have sylva Pictures its one week left

>>47423035
>its one week left

Doubtful.

>>47423004
And btw - going with the knightly theme, how about either LOTR army of the dead or bret knights as spirit hosts?

>>47421220
>>47421220
>>47421277
>>47421290
im using hammers because-well, STARTER BOX. For 50 grands i get the same amount of roughly 150. Im getting a second starter set as soon as im done painting these ones or i fear ill never be able to escape the grey-zone.

>>47421955
Ogors are indeed a strong faction, in general you need a 30 wound lead to fight them fairly.

The thing is that they combine high movement with high damage output and being multiple wound models require you to deal a full four wounds before you reduce the effectiveness of the unit in anyway. This also makes them much more resilient to battle shock tests.

>yfw tribal banner re-rolling 6's on the BS test.

tl;dr: When gw do release a comp system for AOS ogors will either be ass fuck expensive or banned from most tournies.

>>47423459
>tl;dr: When gw do release a comp system for AOS ogors will either be ass fuck expensive or banned from most tournies.
They aren't that expensive, only strong thing is the monsters.

>>47423477
aren't that strong **

>>47423491
>>47423477
Ogres are fucking strong, but lack of synergies and variety.

>>47423477
Ogors are very much strong, possibly the best faction in the game.
Their units range from solid to astounding.

>>47423688
>>47423631
Strong yes, strong enough to be banned outright, no

>>47420189
When you say sylvaneth you refer only to the trees? i want moar aelfs

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>>47423786
>strong enough to be banned outright, no
If the eventual comp system doesn't take them specifically into account then yes.
If it ends up being based on wounds in any way they will need to be banned from picking sudden death and require at the least a modified victory determination system.

>tfw painting up an ogre battalion I won at an 8th ed tourney four years ago just to abuse it at my locals first AOS comp rules tournament because I know full well GW will fuck it up.

>Day 5 of asking everywhere
>STILL can't find anyone to 50:50 the sigmar starter with that's not way too far away.

Fate is trying to tell me "Don't give GW money"

>>47424132
Which half you want, where you (loosely) at?

>>47424153
Sigmarines and Bristol

>>47424185
I'm way up north and want the sigmarines too, so we're basically in the same boat.

>>47424196
That's a shame, had me hoping for like half a second.

Are the Bray shamans power "Savage Dominion" too powerfull? I mean it says it can summon any chaoss monster, that means that any unit/model that has the keywords chaos and monster can be summoned. So technacly a player with a bray shaman can summon Archaon!

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>>47423013
Gib Warplock Engineer / Master Mutator hero cards. Gw pls.

Silver Tower is good, but it will remain inferior sub-skaven trash. UNTIL each of the Great Clans are represented. Only then shall the Horned one smile upon it.

>>47424656
You probably could do that. But I play it sort of fluffy I guess. I try to keep it to only beast shit. Nothing crazy or demony. Granted if the other guys being a dick. Fuck em

>>47424721
I do the same, I would say chaos gargants are the limit on what a Bray shaman could call into battle, other simple minded creatures are cygors, gorgorns, giant chaos spawns, etc..

>>47424656
There's a lot of things like that in this game.

Sigmar is weird.

Guys, would you watch an age of sigmar youtube channel regularly?

I'm pretty keen to start one but would like some pre-emptive feed back on expected content.

>>47424656
Are you using a non english rule book or an old one?

Mine says any "monster" and archaon doesn't have the monster keyword.

Skarbrand and the blood thirster do though.

>>47424656
Yes it is too strong as it is currently written

It is highly expected that they will errata it

>>47424816
>Mine says any "monster" and archaon doesn't have the monster keyword.
Yes he does

>>47424816
Archaon on horse isn't a monster but £100 archaon is.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-archaon-everchosen-en.pdf

>>47424849
>https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-archaon-everchosen-en.pdf

Ahh I get it now, makes sense if they're trying to push the model.

Tell me about your armies/warbands Anons. How did they form, who's in charge, why did they form, what are they called, etc?

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I posted this last thread but I was hoping to get some more input.

What's do you think is the best gear for these guys?

>>47425157
I think most people just turned their 8th ed armies into aos warbands.
My current list is the exiled elves blood cult.

>cauldron
>3X 10 witch elves
>10 executioners
It gets upgraded with
>2 x 5 warlocks
>1 hydra
>2X black guard
for larger games.

>>47425169
There's actually so little difference between them that it doesn't matter.
The ward save will save one in six models but if five models die the units fucked anyway.
Rend is important because of mystic shield but 3+ to hit is the golden standard atm.

>>47424816
No content suggestions at all guys?
In this instance anything that isn't the shield is probably good.

>>47425343
We can't really give feedback if we don't know what you're going to be doing, I enjoy watching battle reports on Miniwargaming, i'd probably enjoy it from your group too. What else do you have in mind?

>>47425169
Well you just get the same 4 guys twice so it doesn't matter unless you plan on getting a shit ton or converting. the shield is bad, so all Glaives i guess.

Acolytes are a shit 1 wound unit that will blatantly be overcosted when pts roll out. I'd rather field Tzaangors but again expect heavy points and Bestigor are better still with movement 9 you can't beat that.

>>47425169
They're snap-fit, but if we assume you're building them yourself, half the unit gets shields, the other half gets glaives. Keep allocating wounds to the shield-bearers until they're dead so that the glaives get the highest possible chance of making it into combat. Glaives because Tzeentch is really fucking hard up for Rend.

>>47426119
What the hell are you talking about? The shield is awesome and Kairic Acolytes are amazing.

The shield is a 6+ save that Rend can't touch and that also works against mortal wounds and that's done BEFORE your actual save and since you can mix and match weapons you can just let the shield guys tank hits for the rest of the unit.
And the Acolytes are amazing, as they're basically Marauders except with more reliable shields and a shooting attack that's pretty decent if you have a Wizard tagging along (which you always should).

Sure if you compare them to Chaos Warriors or Stormvermin they suck, but they're light infantry like Bloodreavers. And an unsupported Kairic Acolyte wipes the floor with an unsupported Bloodreaver any day of the week.

>>47425343
There is a ton of things you could do: batreps, painting/modeling tutorials, lore, news roundups, hobby blogging, etc. My first recommendation is to do what interests you. For example, if you don’t enjoy conversion work, don’t make videos about conversions. You will find you get bored and fed up very fast if you don't enjoy running this channel.

My second recommendation is, if you’re serious about this, consider your level of production. Too many channels already have shaky cellphone cameras recording piecemeal clips in between jump cuts and terrible audio quality. If you want to really stand out from the crowd buy a blue yeti. Buy a canon vixia or 5d. Mount your mic on a boom above you. Put padding in your recording room to reduce echo. Buy a used glidecam or put your camera on a steady stand. Learn how to use vegas/after effects/final cut/whatever.

The reason why people love the warhammer TV channel is because of the production value (and Duncan). They break things down to a step-by-step process, occasionally explain uncommon painting techniques, and are fantastic for beginners and seasoned hobbyists alike. There are a ton of painting channels on youtube that are just as valuable, but very few have the same kind of production value and quality that warhammer TV has, and that's why it stands out from the others.

>>47426397
Different anon here, was comparing them to other infantry with ranged weapons like chameleon skins and dark elf shades/ black arc corsairs.

They seem pretty lack luster, although if blood reaver is your baseline then yeah I guess they're alright.


>>47426513
>blue yeti
Got one, I was actually going to film games on a go pro and edit them in movie maker.
Your list of post production programs intrigues me though.

I really do enjoy conversion work though, although I'm about to kit bash some kardashian heads and the torso from a carnifex into a beholder once the parts arrive.
My first video might be a step by step break down of it, just to test the waters.

So far I've had trouble with filming AOS battle reports, warhammer was a lot easier to work with since it was so you go I go, etc

>>47426093
General miniature wargaming stuff, it's more I want to know what people are into and what they specifically like seeing the least.

>>47426397
>he shield is a 6+ save that Rend can't touch
Which is shit.

>your actual save
Which is garbage, assuming you ever get it.

>let the shield guys tank hits for the rest of the unit
So now you're bad at both defense and offense, rather than having a unit that specs in either and has a use/role

>a shooting attack that's pretty decent if you have a Wizard tagging along
12 inch shooting that only reaches /AVERAGE/ power when you dedicate a hero to them is awful dude.

Now why could i possibly have compared them to SV rather than Warriors? that's it, wound count.

Things like Gutter-runners and Horrors fill the 'massed shooting' infantry role far better. Whereas almost any dedicated melee unit absolutely shits all over these chumps, be it 'no save, massed attacks' (Witches, Monks) or heavy armour 2 hander units (SV, Bestigor)

All of the above naturally superior BEFORE they receive their factions 'stand a hero/banner' nearby get buffs'

Sorry to break it down for you these guys are trash but if you really want to rely on rolling two 6's in a row then be my guest.

>>47420189
are there round bases small enough to put gnoblars/goblins on ?

also how would you feel if i used the online gnoblar army list in a battle ?

>>47424816
>Guys, would you watch an age of sigmar youtube channel regularly?
No. I hate youtubers and watch channels with all my heart.

>>47426685
Yeah they just go on the basic 40k style base, the smallest one GW sells unless I'm reading your question wrong. go look on the website, ghouls and plague monks now come packed with them

I've never seen the Gnoblar list but it sounds fun to play against, i'd like to see it You got a PDF handy?

>>47426580
Guy who first asked, here.
At my local shop we don't balance by models or wounds, and we will probably skip points when it comes out. We balance by the merit and ability of each unit. We would never look at, say, 10 of these guys and say that's a fair match against 10 stormvermin.

Kairic Acolytes are neato light infantry, but they don't excel in any particular field. I'm thinking of using them as bodyguard units for my wizards, but I'm entirely convinced the shields are good enough when compared to rend or a better chance of hitting.

>>47426752
Whoops, I meant **Not** entirely convinced

>>47425157
I'm still trying to work out mine. The focus of the army is going to emphasize Lion Rangers because I love what little fluff they have, in particular their origins as warrior monks. I may be using the Jedi as a loose inspiration for them.

They're going to be led by either an Archmage or Mistweaver, in either case probably given a call to arms by one of them to support the forces of Order; the Mistweaver in particular, I think, is going to as mysterious to them as she is to anyone else, but the White Lions strongly believe that she has altruistic intentions, even if she's weird as hell. Not entirely certain on the Archmage's motivations specifically.

And since the Lion Rangers currently only have different units, I'm figuring which other Order subfaction will work best to be their primary allies. I figure that, given the nature of the Lion Rangers, it would be logical for them to be with many different allies across the Order spectrum depending on the situation, but I'm not sure where to start. I kinda want to do Seraphon, because I like idea of them essentially being the Daemons of Order, but the problem is that they lack any decent dedicated ranged units, which I think would be the most important support for a Lion Rangers army. I've also been leaning on Wanderers for Sisters of the Watch and Sisters of the Thorn (the former for ranged support, the latter for their amazing support spell), with the idea that the Lion Rangers are aiding them in their mission to restore the Waystones across the Mortal Realms to strengthen the spread of Order.

Basically, it's a work in progress.

So how different do we think the new dorfs will look from the old ones? Fyreslayers look cool and all but I like my dwarfs armored and carrying some fuck you up weapons

>>47426752
Yeah, that's cool. do you just drop units until it seems fair? that's what I'm doing atm.

Shit man I'd never chastise anyone for taking them in a tzeench army just because maybe SV are better, i'm a fluffy gamer myself.

Just anyone claiming Kairic's are 'Awesome' is flat out uninformed as fuck. I consider spreading misinformation like that to be borderline shitposting.

If i were forced to field them i'd go for the Glaives , you get that rend but also they carry the 'Honour guard' look. I'd imagine Tzeenchian warriors would go for staff-like weapons so best of both worlds fluff + in game power.

>>47426805
>only have different units
*only have two different units

>>47426580
What's your problem? Want me to admit they're not Bestigors, Stormvermin or Saurus Guard? No, they're not, not even close.
And they're not meant to be. They're mass infantry, not Elite infantry. Not Blood Warriors, but Bloodreavers.

Their shield is better than what most other units in the game get because even a 6+ save against mortal wounds is better than NO save against mortal wounds.

Then you can mix weapons which doesn't make them bad in defense and offense.
In case you haven't noticed, unless you're playing against an old-school WoC army without shooting, your units will always take damage before they enter melee. This way, you can let the slightly tougher stuff take the hits instead of going full glaives and losing more models.

>if you really want to rely on rolling two 6's in a row then be my guest.
Do you literally not get this game? You don't need 2 6s in a row, you just have twice the chance to roll your damn six.

>Things like Gutter-runners and Horrors fill the 'massed shooting' infantry role far better.
Gee, what a shock. A ranged unit is better at shooting than a balanced unit. Surprise, the 12" range already told you they're not a "shooty unit". They're a massed melee unit that also happens to shoot. They're worse at shooting than Horrors but better in melee than Horrors. They shoot, then they get stuck in and in every one of your shooting phases they do a bit of extra damage the opponent cannot retaliate against.
They also cheerfully take Witch Aelves and Plague Monks apart as they can survive their onslaught via double-6+-save and numbers and can shoot them dead before combat.

But it's okay. Keep living in your mathhammer bubble and don't let reality intrude on your delicate calculations.

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>>47426969
>m-muh mathhammer fags pls go :_;

Dude your own initial argument even said 'Sure they suck' fuck off with trying to shift the goalposts so late in the dispute.

Stomping your feet and raging like a sperg won't change anything. i refuse to address your stupidity again.

>>47427184
>Stomping your feet and raging like a sperg won't change anything
Please stop projecting.

I never said they sucked m80, you need some basic reading comprehension, I still say Kairic Acolytes are great. They're great LIGHT infantry. Saying they're not Stormvermin is like saying a model of Mournfang Cavalry isn't a Stonehorn. Sure it isn't, nobody claimed that, but that doesn't make it bad.

>b-but muh wound counting sez they suck compared to Stormvermin
Your point being? Not everybody balances with wound counts and your completely unsupported claim that they'll be overcosted in the general's handbook counts for approximately two wet sacks of shit at this point.

I'd take 30 Wounds of Kairics over 30 Wounds of Chaos Warriors any day as they're infinitely more versatile. Thanks to their shooting they can always just stand behind a screening unit and shoot or you throw them in front of something and let them do the screening for something else.
They also reward you for having Wizards along and a Chaos Sorcerer Lord's unique spell is doubly effective on a unit that can also shoot.

It's not just about what a unit can do, but how it can be supported. And the only things that can support Stormvermin are Mystic Shield, some Verminlords' unique spells and Command abilities. Last time I checked, unless you play Archaon you can only ever use one Command Ability per turn.
For Kairic Acolytes I can spontaneously think of about six buffs I can toss at them.
>hurr durr shifting goalposts
fuck off, if you think keyword synergy isn't part of a unit's potential, go play 9th Age.

Not that anything I say will ever make you reconsider as anyone who doesn't agree with you is instantly a sperg. I wish my worldview were that simple again.

>>47427184
>>47427546
guys... pls...

Do you guys think GW will bring back the old terrain kits for AoS?

Kairic acolytes seem pretty mediocre to me, I think it's because they don't have a banner or musician bonus though.

>>47427728
I doubt it, we'll get more terrain but it will be drastically over priced.

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>summon kroxigors
>roll 11
>dont have 3 more kroxigors to put on the table

Damnit GW you are really good at getting me to spend money on miniature lizards

>>47427546
>I'd take 30 Wounds of Kairics over 30 Wounds of Chaos Warriors

We get it, you established you're trash many posts back, no need to hammer it home.

Gotta love how you still found room to fit in some 9th age hate out of nowhere whilst accusing me of projection. No autistic outburst in an AoS general is complete without that dreaded booeyman rearing it's loathsome head!

Any stormcast players in here?
Which are your best performing units?
Most enjoyable units?
I'm about to raid ebay to build a standard army but I also want some variety.
>>47428864
>mon visage quand

The best fun I've had with Sigmar has all been a little homebrew campaign play thing we're doing at my local shop.

No mathshammering, You get what you get and have to roll with it.
We're allowing proxies which is the only reason it works since one guy rolled "20 Monks" 4 times in a row.

>>47425157
>Tell me about your armies/warbands Anons. How did they form, who's in charge, why did they form, what are they called, etc?

Knights of Chaos, led by a Tzeentch Lord on Daemonic mount. Two Khorne Gorebeast Chariots, Two Burning Chariots of Tzeentch, Herald on Burning Chariot, Bloodstoker and Bloab Rotspawned. The Tzeentch army was fighting some Greenskins in order to capture a Chaos artefact. They were losing quite badly until a Khorne contingent came to relieve them, sent by the leader's rival who didn't want his fightiest foe to be defeated so easily.

>>47420245
Well seeing as your army can consist of literally anything you want I think there'll be a pretty strong chance anon.

>>47423035
>>47423252
I was thinking their release was going to be more mid to late June, to give 40k/modelling supplies a couple of issues.

>>47427728
>old terrain kits for AoS?
No, 3rd party have released nice generic medieval terrain, and they are cheap too.

>>47431305
You wouldn't happen to know where one could acquire these cheap terrain kits?

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>>47431337
>acquire these cheap terrain kits

http://www.renedra.co.uk/productlist.php?category=12&secondary=33

The old Warhammer Watchtower is cheaper, but renedra tower is much larger.

>>47426805

>Seraphon
>Lack Ranged Units

Chameleon Skinks, Razordons, Salamanders?

>>47434303
>Chameleon Skinks
Deep strike hero sniper. BTW, their point cost is same as 5 saurus guards and 10 saurus warriors.

>Razordons
>Salamanders
12" is too short.

You missed the "One range to rule them all" bastiladon. :-)

there are a lot of rules to balance AoS such as house rules on summoning and points systems, but are there any rules that add more depth to AoS or make it more complex and interesting than it currently is. The current rules just seem... Lacking

Apparently Age of Sigmar got updated? Is it fun now?

Is Neferata good?

>>47434303
All great units, but they kinda lack the range I'm aiming (ha) for. Chameleon Skinks are actually pretty close, but I'm just not crazy about their aesthetic.

I love regular Skinks visually, but they're one of those units you have to make blobs of in order for them to be good, and I'm not really into building/painting big armies anymore. I'm very tempted, though.

>>47434880
I haven't done them myself, but some other anons have: the Battletomes apparently add some interesting extra features and scenarios to AoS to make games more interesting. I'm sure folks more informed will explain in the daytime.

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>>47426749
basically since the gnoblar sprues and the ogre sprues have so many different kinds of gnoblars on them you just sort of make regiments of the different kinds.

like the piggyback riders. the knights, the ball and chain guys, the slingshot guys. etc

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>>47435806
the old gw army.

i wouldnt know how to convert the lists to age of sigmar though.

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>>47435831
another old list called goblin provinces

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>>47427728

GW is going to release a plastic Laketown terrain kit sometime in the future, was on display at Warhammer Fest.

Note that this display was made from combining the same kit, there is only one and you don't get all this.

>>47436076
>Note that this display was made from combining the same kit, there is only one and you don't get all this.
The old WHFB houses hat designed interiors. Maybe the walls are twosided so you get a little more variety out of the kit.

>>47435831
Good old times, when GW cared about lore and fluff armies

So apparently smaller armies are normal in Age of Sigmar or some shit? Does this mean i can fit bigass lords and a few things to support it into a small army? Something like a mortarch and a couple of grave guard?

1d4chan mentions there being a "Neferata's Blood Court" battalion but doesn't elaborate. Is that like a special bonus for taking a thematic army?

>>47437373
You can play any size of army you want, and theres something new that´s like the 40K formations where if you put an especific kind of troops they will have a benefit rule/s

>>47437373
>big ass lords
Yes.
>bllod court
Certain selections of units have additional special rules, if you check the gw site for the aos vc rules you'll find a pdf that lists them at the back.

remove sigmarines

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How will Kroak protect us from the devil trees

Is AoS really as bad as everybody says it is?

>>47438005
It's actually pretty good

It has some flaws but almost all of them are due to a lack of a point system

>>47438015
this, i dont fucking get how you can even think this game would work without point system.

>>47438044
It fills a unique niche as a game where you can just slap models on the table and roll some dice. It makes for some great fluffy casual battles.

It definitely needs a point system though, and I'm glad they are adding one in the near future

>>47438015
GW WILL fuck it up. They haven't been able to make a balanced point system in like 30 years

>>47438078
>what is lotr

most based game they ever made

>>47438078
Nobody is expecting a perfectly balanced game. Nobody with an ounce of common sense, at least.

It just needs to be a rudimentary system that gives some reason to make reasonably balanced battles.

>>47438072
How near is the near future?

>>47438186
Summer.

>>47438186
Point system is included in The General's Handbook which is being released this summer

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>>47438005

Bad enough that GW 360'd their position on 'no points, all narrative, all the time' in the hopes of getting some people back into the game

the focus on the boring Stormcast Eternals faction that no one asked for doesn't help things

at least we're getting a neat redemption arc for Archaon

>>47438273
>stormcast are boring
>i like archaon

What's it like to be the biggest faggot in all the mortal realms

>>47438273
>>47438015
Alright then.

I ask because I want to get into either 40k or Warhammer fantasy. The fantasy part interests me more as I like the setting more than sci fi but 40k seems to be more popular so I'll probably just go with that.

>>47438393
Try playing both before you buy too much

I found 40k to be less enjoyable because it is seriously bloated with rules. It is needlessly overcomplicated.

>>47420393
Fimir Warriors look like a top tier unit to ally in for Destruction armies, 2" reach Balegryph Mauls with Rend -2 + all their defensive buffs on Move 6"/3W/4+ dudes are pretty handy, plus they're evidently getting a hero model soon. I ordered 3 of this new meme unit, something tells me that my friends won't be eager for me to get anymore, even with a hook-up.

>>47420494
it's nice to hear how different folks are liking it, might be worth it after all for $110 on ebay

>>47421602

Seraphag, try playing other armies, I bet you'll appreciate how great your lizards are, after gaining some much needed perspective.

>>47421702

+ points for trying something different, but they look weird to me without helmets, at least chainmail coifs/hoods. I only have some Retributors, Dracoth cav./Lords, + a starter box Relictor I converted into the teleport bannerman, so no generic Liberator helmets for me.

>>47421793

even the plebbest of players use some manner of balancing, all the way from eyeballing it to wounds to pool choices/SCGT.

>>47424816

would it just a podcast with a webcam pointing at some nerd just talking/painting???

>>47425157

Meh dudes are primarily an IronJawz BigMob, led by Grimgor Ironhide/Fist of Mork, that are allied with some Trolls, & sometimes Ruglud & his crew tag along. Their area is lousy with Clan Skryre & their stormvermin goons, so there's plenty of fightin' to be had. His Black Orc Big Boss friend has learned to avoid large groupings of Wanderer Waywatchers, & both are wary of Skaven jezzails. Gordrakk is being mailed to me atm & will take over.

What do people like for Greenskinz shooting units? Ruglud's gang has 4+ Saves but only shoot 12," Savage Orcs can take bows/choppas & Big Stabbas, but melt away w/o their Formation bonus improving their "ward saves"/warpaint, while the updated Orruks have the Arrer Boyz/bows incorporated into their basic profile, & thus can finally have command models. I have, in turn, been underwhelmed

Are people still doing the 'take whatever units you want' thing or is that pretty much dead now with the factions? I want to take Ogres with my Chaos force but i'm not sure whether to make them Chaos Ogres or Maneaters/Ironguts.

>>47438473
>What do people like for Greenskinz shooting units?
Ruglud's are pretty much the best, and that's really not saying much.

>>47438617
It's still completely fine. Always ask your opponent but it's in the rules so there it is. It's generally better to have a nice bit of fluff and some matching paint schemes/conversions to get them to visually tie together too.

Hey,

Trying to come up with a color scheme for my Mawkrusha and Orruk dude on him. I don't plan on collecting an Orruk army (more of a painter) but I'd like a good color scheme between the two models. Basically I have gotten input from all my friends, family and a few message boards and I haven't decided. Not feeling the red or really even the green that the official artwork shows but I'm really pumped to paint the model. I guess I might just sit down with all my paints and see what I'm feeling at the time. Any ideas?

>>47438632
I've seen some fantastic brown orcs (like in Warcraft pre Burning Legion corruption), and I personally like how a white Maw-Crusha looks.

>>47438628
Good news, thanks. I rarely get to play so i guess i'll just figure out the best option when i do.

>>47438473
>would it just a podcast with a webcam pointing at some nerd just talking/painting???

Sometimes, it will also feature battle reports and these "x in a minute" reviews I want to try out. Essentially I review a unit, book, product in sixty seconds.
There's also quite a few AOS tournies planned in my area and I'm hoping to jump into some of them.

>>47440109
Sounds pretty good. I'd want batreps and painting and conversion workshops.

>>47440109
Youtube can always use more painting tutorials. I will sub to your channel for sure.

>>47438078
Apperantly this is the first time theyve actually tried to make a properly balanced game. Its also the first time theyve had input from major tournament players.

>>47438186
>>47438193
>>47438243

Local GW manager says 21st of june.

>>47438617
Yeh ofcourse, you dont even need to ask permission from your opponent. As long as youre not just allying in the strongest shit possible with no theme nobody will even bat an eye.

>>47441096
Batreps and conversions will be pretty much seventy five percent of the channel to be honest.

>>47441280
I'm curious how they managed to get that, since most AOS tournies have blown ass.

>>47441360
Eh, blown ass? What makes you think that? SCGT was really good, I was there. Im hearing pretty positive things about all the AoS tournaments, mostly in the UK, but I hear Adepticon was great too.

>>47437034

It's possible. GW and FW have sculpted the interiors of vehicles, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same here.

I recall one person saying that the fence and balcony railings you can see in that picture are made from the same parts.

what makes AoS different from fantasy? why are there two different threads? i'm a noob to warhammer

>>47441830

On the offchance that this isn't bait: Games Workshop ended the 'Warhammer Fantasy Battles" game, then released Age of Sigmar.

While Age of Sigmar uses many of the same miniatures and some elements from Warhammer Fantasy's setting, it is meaningfully a new game and not just a new edition.

There are two threads because the move to make a new game and kill WHFB can generously be described as 'contentious', and also because the two games are different enough that discussion of one doesn't apply to another.

>>47442219
thanks

>>47441400
My experience so far has been negative, mostly based around abusing game mechanics.
>summon spam
>spear/ lance reversal
>those are some interesting bases you have there

>>47441830
Different rule sets, one game is supported the other is not.

Does anyone know what the generals handbook is going to end up costing?

>>47442636
Nothing has been announced yet

>>47442636
I've heard around the grand alliance pricing.

>>47442659
>>47443120
Better get that pre-order in as soon as possible then, gonna take a few days off making youtube videos.

>>47442240
>My experience so far has been negative, mostly based around abusing game mechanics.
>>summon spam
That's covered by SCGT's summon pool
>>spear/ lance reversal
That's illegal under SCGT rules, it's base to base. Also somewhere in the FAQ it's illegal too.
>>those are some interesting bases you have there
There does need to be some standardisation of base size desu.

SCGT solves those first couple issues, those aren't issues with SCGT.

>>47442252
>spear/ lance reversal
what does this mean?

>>47443355
That was purely how painful AOS tournaments have been for me so far.
I really am looking forwards to base size standardization, twice as much if they find a way to work LOS into it.

>>47443700
Modeling the spear or lance horizontally then turning the model to measure from the top when charging and turning it away when being charged.

>>47443742
It's pretty clear in the rules that no part of the model can move more than the move value. Bases annoy me too, since I have plenty of old 25mm WoC and I don't want to rebase them since 32mm are worse in every way.

>>47442252

One rule change I do wish GW would implement is just go back to measuring from the base.

>>47443742
>That was purely how painful AOS tournaments have been for me so far.
>I really am looking forwards to base size standardization, twice as much if they find a way to work LOS into it.
Oh fair enough, thought you were complaining about SCGT from the context. I'm looking forward to the matched play rules. Total War has scratched the itch.

>>47443863
No part of the model does move further than the move value.
You turn the model around to face the enemy during the end of their turn and turn it back at the end of yours.
There's no front or rear facing rules in AOS.

>>47443908
That would be nice.

Do the AoS armies have different chapters (for lack of a better word) like 40k armies do?

>>47444028

I'd say so, the concepts at least exist. Off the top of my head:

Stormcast have Stormhosts
Fyreslayers have Lodges
Skaven, Orcs, and Goblins have Clans
Warriors of Chaos have Warbands
Flesh-eaters have Courts

>>47444028
basically, what >>47444169
said. Mostly, the stormcasts are literally marines and have stormhosts.
Aos is pretty free and intentionally "vague" on this aspect; they say constantly "this is an example, do your own thing you lazy motherfucker".

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as promised, i began my work on my stormcast!
This is just a colour test for the armour; im going for an incandescent effect for the weapons, a gold halo(and eventually every "special" bit, like prosecutors wings and retributors backpack) and blue/azure cloths. probably doing with greenstuff a marble(black maybe)base too.
Toughts? its pretty rough due beign only a test8and also, a WIP)!

>>47444387
That looks really good. I'm just worried it doesnt look great from far away. The red on the weapon looks weird but I assume you'll change that.

>>47444477
Thanks!
yeah, thats just the base colour. im making it look incandescent trasictioning the red to orange, yellow and eventually white. ill also add some gold details. i want them to look like marbe statues, i grew up as a catholic in europe and there are a lot of saints marble statues, and i wanted the stormcasts to look like them.
Also, the weapon are red because made from the molten core of a dead planet, constantly on fire. probably the only thing that makes sense fluff-wise on my models lol.

As for their base, i tought about making it marble-like too. Maybe black marble to add some contrast?

>>47444583
>As for their base, i tought about making it marble-like too. Maybe black marble to add some contrast?
Hmm that could work. I'd be worried it would be too busy though. It's a cool and unique idea. Can't wait to see it finished.

>>47444606
black marble can be pretty easy, expecially if im not going for something too complicated. Just black, a few white stripes and a lot of gloss varnish. is the armour okay tho' does it look like marble? If so, im just going for it without adding much(changing the stripes from pure thinne dblack to bwon thinned and then adding a second layer of black, for one)because its pretty simple(10 or so layers)and it cna be done pretty fast.

>>47444583
Those totally look marble. They look great IMO. Well done. Post a higher res pic or a closer pic if you have one (or maybe one thats more in focus?). Either way, looks great from what I'm seeing.

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>>47444672
Only other photo I have. at work atm so cant do anymore till tomorrow but...thanks! Making it look like marble was a pain in the ass, because you cant add shades/shadows wityhout losing the "statue" effect.
in the end i went for bone, light brown and azure gray glazes to make it look less bland but preserving the marble effect.
Thanks a lot! Guess I have some work to do. one liberators almost done, so that leaves like...the whole rest of the army.

>>47444387
That looks amazing, just remember to model some pigeons on the bases possibly after they've shit on your stormcast.

>>47420245
I saw that there's rules supporting screamers and flamers in WHQ how many do you need for that? My flatmate is willing to let me have a couple of his extras

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>>47444743
>remember to model some pigeons on the bases possibly after they've shit on your stormcast.
that's...thats actually possible.
its realistic, at least.
fucking pigeons.

Also, pic related anon
just for you

>>47445097
Best shitpost of the day

Whats the difference between a wound and a mortal wound?

>>47445131
wound allows save roll, even if rend gives it a malus8rend -1 means -1 on the save roll, for example). Mortal wound inflicts one straight wound, wich can only prevented by special ability(nurgle's resilience, for example, allows the save of a mortal wounf with a 5+)

>>47444169
>>47444211
Do these things have special rules I need to be aware of? Or can I just paint my sigmarines black and call everybody a dirty jian

>>47445297
I'm not an expert but i dont think most of them have special rules but there are some things called "Batallions" which are a specific thematic setup that does have special rules.

>>47445297
>and call everybody a dirty jian
You can, they have no special rules.
While 40k nowadays is "PAINT LIKE WE SAY, HERE'S YOUR CHAPTER MANUAL" Aos went to the opposite direction, and hopefully it will stay that way.
I miss the days when in 40k did this too...in early days they even told players that it was fine playing CSM with conventional SM rules if you preferred that, with your preferred legion rules too!
Now is just supersmurfs and black edgy teenegares(fuck ravenwing. really, FUCK THAT)

>tfw you're too dumb to understand the dark elf warscrolls compendium
How many more attacks can bleakswords generate?

>>47445097
You know it was a joke at the time but pigeons would be pretty awesome, stormcast pigeons or not.
I would like to see black marble also.

As far as i can tell the only limitation on army building so far is "Death, Destruction, Order, Chaos" right? Beyond that its kinda "whatever you feel is good"?
The start collecting skeleton horde box seems cool, is that a good place to start with death?

>>47445481
The start collecting boxes are generally great. You can't go too far wrong with them and sometimes it's even worth getting two. Not sure about that one but definitely one would be good

>>47445417
>stormcast pigeons
THEY ARE SIGMAR CHOSENS
CLAD IN GOLD-CLAD ARMOUR
SHITTING ON THE SERVANTS OF CHAOS
WHORING FOR BREAD CRUMBLES
THEY ARE SIGMARS MOST ANNOYING SERVANTS
STORMSHAT PIGETERNALS
>>47445481
>Beyond that
No, thats not a restriction. you can play mixed armies if you go raw. There are some skills, like the new sigmar warpriest that works better with his same faction. models from different alignments tend to work badly with each other, anyway, but if you really want you can mix and match them.. but its better to stay within the grand alliance of your choice unless you have a very good fluffy army(like the guy who was making stormcast ogres, or my Plague Orcs)
>The start collecting skeleton horde box seems cool, is that a good place to start with death?
Its an awesome deal, but you will need a lot more skellies after that. best way to begin is the start collecting and a single box of skellies. Maybe throw in an hero so you have your own general(not nagash plz)and you have an army already.

Day 7 of searching for a 50:50 buddy: Still nobody wants the chaos half of the starter box, even at £27

Fucking Sigmar.

>>47445665
No one of facebook selling groups? there are some big groups over there.
i found a seller after one day. try your friends, so you can suck them in into the hobby.

>>47445613
>Its an awesome deal, but you will need a lot more skellies after that. best way to begin is the start collecting and a single box of skellies. Maybe throw in an hero so you have your own general(not nagash plz)and you have an army already.
Two start collecting skellies boxes are even better. You have like 20 skellies, 10 black knights and 2 mortarchs.

>>47445665
put it onto ebay

>>47445750
you can only build arkhan from that.

>>47443863
1" reach weapons on 32mm rounds is the worse for basic infantry, enjoy only fighting in a single rank!

>>47443908
same, & standardize basing

>>47444387

good start; but yeah tone down the bloodied weapons/put more orange in the glow-fx, and add gold & blue accents, plz post once it's done-done. Hero models could be in black marble, instead of the basing? I almost think just green grass tufts on dirt for basing, K.I.S.S. as to not detract/distract from the models.

>>47444916
Anyone have an answer for this?

>>47445822
False.

>>47443908
>>47443863
>>47443742
I usually housurule that both models and base counts, so you can play difficult models(like prosecutors, that are hard as fuck to keep in base cohesion without turning them in retarded poses, ord anything with seekers of slaneesh). So far, no one abused this and actually playing from models solves a lot of issues. usually weapons go further from bases so you have no need to overlap them, but in that case you just count bases as part of the model.
As for rotating model, you CANT, because it counts as a movement and you can only move from a starter point to another. Also, its an ugly, cheap, asshole move to do and if your opponent does it its not cunning strategy, its just a slimy bastard and you should kick him out of the store or avoid him entirely.
>>47446136
don't own the game but i guess you simply replace them with regular encounters. There's no rule on this in the manual?

>>47446184
Unfortunetly I'm still waiting for mine to come in this weekend

>>47445822
>>47446177
Can someone who owns the kit explain? Because if i can get Neferata in my start collecting box instead of Arkhan that would be super awesome.

>>47446184
>>47446136
flamers - 1 per player up to max 3
screamers - 1 per player, up to max 3
exalted flamer - 1 max (miniboss)
herald of tzeench - 1 max (miniboss)

Im gonna buy 1 chariot of tzeench +1 screamer, 3 flamers and I'm sorted.

>>47446206
you get all kit options and sprues as the regular box.

>>47446177
Really? Fuck, if it's true then there goes my money.
Having Arkhan + Mannfred from 2 boxes. Fuck yeah

>>47446230
Cool, the problem is the Mortarch will be the largest/most complicated model I've ever done. Malifaux (the game i usually play) has some complicated models and some large models, but usually not both at once and the ones i tend to get are relatively easy to paint. Mortarch looks like a nightmare to paint.

>>47446253
looking at it, its not too hard.
You have a lot of bones, wich are relateviley easy to paint, armour plates-aka easy flat surface and the mortarch itself, who can have the same colours of the plates and the skulls.

Oh, forgot the spirits. they look pretty easy too, you don't really have details too hard like complicated facial features or strange jewelery. You can literally broke it in 3 colours. skulls/skin, armour plates, spirits. google some images to get an idea.

>>47446288
Things like the skulls are just going to lose ALL detail when i paint them.

>>47446224
Cool thanks man!

>>47446309
How? they are skulls. base colour, simple wash, 2 different drybrush. there you have your skulls.
If you need any advice, ask away. Im on night shifts and have 4 more hours to go.

>>47445376
Fuck yeah. AoS is Best.

>>47446309
skull/bone
>brown base - I recommend some lighter brown
>drybrush with bone color
>not too strong drybrush with white, just the sharpest/highest areas
done

>>47445376
3.5 ed. Chaos Marine Codex. never forget

>>47446361
I love 40k, been playing it for like 20 years but a lot has been lost during these years, mostòly the community gradually changed and lost the focus of the game, with everyone screaming MUH MIN-MAX, THIS IS USELESS THIS IS NOT, going competitive in a game absolutely NOT design to be competitive!
internet helped that, before you couldn't check what "lists"to bring, you read the fluff and made the army you liked. the game wasn't balanced but our armies were cool units with a bit of strategy slapped togheter, and between Orbital bombardment(do you remember it?) crazy and warped wargear(chaos 3rd ed!)it was a lot of fun.
now, if you don't bring the WAAC meta list you are a faggot and you are not allowed to have fun. its pretty sad.
>>47446392
never fogetti the spaghetti
yeah, it was awesome. So much twisted wargear and rules. they were FUN™.
3rd ed tyranids too.
i didn't care about broken combos-only asshole did that and they were seen as retards. All i wanted were aliens that FELT aliens-evolving aliens like the lore said. I could make my own fleet with his crazy mutations, and it was a LOT of fun.
I really liked the weapons S stat was the creature the weapon was in stat-a cannon on a carnifex was righteously strong as the creature that it grew on! It made sense and it was fun and logic.
Now tyranids have been "normalized"and plays like marines, but stupidly weaker(and synapse is just a debuff now...)
and new codex formation-based kills even the joy of making your own list. only good thing tht came from 40k recently are the ad mech/skitarii.

So after reading through the rules, I just realised that characters cannot join units. That just explains why is everyone character on a monstrous mount.
How are normal, on foot characters doing in this game?

>>47446624
they are essential for your army.
they do not act as super-hitters in close combat(even tho they can be pretty good)but now instead they grant your army various buffs and advantages, beign better saves and free mortal wounds(mages), to attack buffs(like skullgrinder of khorne), rerolls(lord celestant of stormcast)or bravery bubbles.
Most armies rely on heroes to work. In the end its a different concept of hero from whfb8now heroes are really vulnerable, expecially to ranged fire)so you'll need good positioning and strategy to get the best from them.
heroes on big mounts, however are more similar to old heroes on monsters: steamrollers that can wipe out enemies.
big difference is that now heroes on big mounts and big monsters alike get weaker after beign wound, so you must be careful with them and be sure to be the first to hit(well, except if you are skarbrand...fucking skarbrand just gets angrier the more wounds he take!)

If the rules and war scrolls are free then why would I ever need a battletome?

>>47446808
fluff, art, beign a collector, having the warscrolls printed on decent paper.
you also get exclusive formations and battleplans aka scenarios/missions(well, not really exclusive since you can get them from AOS app for a few bucks).
I actually find it a good move from GW., since now you are not forced to buy the book.

>>47446491
One thing i always liked about older books for both 40k and WHFB was there was a TON of crazy wargear. The relics in old Witch Hunters had like a full page of crazy items you could take on nearly any leader.

One thing i really dislike about Age of Sigmar is the lack of piles of magic items/spells. I'd love an expansion book that is just a pile of crazy items you can put on any hero (with some having keyword requirements etc to be more speshul) and spells you can cast if you have the right keywords.

>>47445806
I have a bad history with issues on ebay so I'm kinda scared to.

It's crazy, I know, but echhh last time was nightmares.

>>47447077
Rumors says, new narrative play will have tons of crazy wargear and loot to gain with your battles.
Im pretty excited actually.

>>47447542
Well i might just be crazy enough to waste money on the start collecting box i will never use then. If nothing else i can have my Mortarch as a display piece so that all can see the horror of my attempts at painting.

>>47447606
>just be crazy enough to waste money on the start collecting box i will never use then
why would you never use it? Content of the box is pretty solid.
Almost all units are viable in Aos and have their own use or niche tactic, and neferata is a fucking BEAST.

>>47447669
Because age of sigmar isn't that fun so I'll probably stop playing if the points system and narrative stuff doesn't pan out.

>>47445665
if you weren't in bongland I'd have probably taken you up on that. Need to get my hands on the chaos lord for a conversion and he's basically a third of that cost.

Can I stack battalions using the same units?

I ask because a lot of Flesh Eater Courts stuff is shares a lot of the same junk in each scroll.

>>47447683
>a
I still don't get the ITS NO FUN IF ITS HASNT POINT IN IT
what does it change, other bullshit broken comp to make your list?
the game remains the same.
You have played it? because you haven't bought anything yet and you have no idea.
You have doubts? Go in a game store and ask for a demo play. The "kill the general"mission in the starter set is a great way to try the game. i tried the scenario with other armies and it works as well(just put the "general is immune to ranged fire and enemy magic).

>>47447683
Are you the guy who was praising old warhammer eds and magic items? because we are getting magic items for narratove play and AOS feels like old edition of warhammer in his heart.
Game is actually fun, more fluid an dinamic than whfb, you stll get strategy(unwanted pile ins have fucked me more times than i wanted), you get crazy duels and epic battles, you still get all old models +new ones, you get fucking free rules....i mean, the game is actuallu pretty fun. Don't listen to shitposters on the net. try it IRL and then come back.

>>47447857
Because list building is fun? Knowing you and your opponent built a list using the same rules is part of the fun. I'd be fine without a points system, there could be other ways than assigning a points value to a model to have list building rules, but the concept of a balance and list building system helps give you something to do before and after the game and something to discuss with other players, it not only makes it more likely to get fair games but it makes picking an army into a part of the game itself.

Playing without a standard is heartbreaking, because there's no value in creativity without limitation. Working in those standards, finding the best way to take advantage of or to work around them is an important part of the game.
>>47448024
Yes. I dunno, i never played old warhammer. For me End Times represented the best warhammer ever offered though, with huge lists of spells, tons of mixed armies etc. But i still thought the limitations were a big part of what made those "exceptions" special.

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>>47438393
Focus on daemons, play both

>>47428864
Dumbass

Hey does the start collecting skaven pestilens box come with the kits you can build into multiple things? Like can you turn the plague furnace into a screaming bell etc?

>>47448350
yes

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>>47448138
>s an important part of the game.
let me call this bullshit, because all wich came from points are merely useless units and meta builds, nothing more.
You actually have better list building in Aos, because you have plenty of ways to create your army and make your strategy.
you can transform weak units into glass cannons, or impenetrable fortresses, or play only with Big Guys; either way you'll have to build your own strategy to overcome opponents lists and find your way to win.
I actually had strategic discuccion with people outside games, because we talk about how to overcome this with that and whats the best way to tarpit that.
With points, all I had has been "that unit sucks, take this and this". Thats all.
> i never played old warhammer. For me End Times represented the best warhammer ever offered though, with huge lists of spells, tons of mixed armies etc
i mean, you just took the most open warhammer before aos, the one hated because you could mix and match units for maximum fucketry, the horrible mess of overpowered spells and units and labeled it as "best warhammer".
It wasn't the best and even if it could have been fun played with the right people in most cases it just ended to be a cheese fest, with insanely, retardetely OP spells that could decimate entire armies. Some games i saw were just magewank fests were either side tried to spell/despell more than the opponent.
in aos i saw for the first time in AGES strange lists; fluffy lists; people having fun creating their own themed army and working on maximing it.
You still discuss with other players of your list, of what you think will improve your guys and what your weaknesses are. You can go mathammer all you want if you need to.

Oh, and points are also coming this summer(global narrative campaign is rumored to be in august and the generals handbook is probably going to be released shortly before that), so you can enjoy you point cancer again.
>>47448350
All SC have all pieces, so id say yes.

>>47448350
Yes. Start Collecting are the contents of the various boxes together.

>>47438296
> character with backstory and motives
> space marines with fluff that managed to make Matt ward look like a better writer
Nah dude you're right

>>47447722
No.

"Usually, a unit can only only belong to one battalion, and so can only benefit from a single set of battalion abilities. However, some very large battalion's include other, smaller battalions, and in this case it is possible for a unit to benefit from the abilities of two different battalions at the same time."

>>47446309

Just for you information, the skulls inside the Mortarch mounts are supposed to be spirits, that is why they're usually not painted a bone color.

>>47448369
Well i never really saw insane magic being a problem in a fantasy wargame, only a benefit. A pointless system just allows for all the cheese you described anyway. To me it sounds like you are mad that nobody will ever play pointless again after points come out because of how much more popular points are. I'm sorry the game you love won't be around longer, but i think in this case your loss is my gain.
>>47448605
My friend owns a lot of ghostly models, ill ask him about how to paint them.

>>47442252
>>47443700
>>47443742
>>47446184
No part of a model can move more than it's movement.

If you rotate, that's the tip of your spear moving X inches, yes, this is how it's meant to work, you measure from the point that's moving the furthest and move it the shortest possible route to that new position.

>>47446624
eh none of,my heros have command ability thats essential so i made some unit champion the general lol

>>47448860
>my heros have command ability thats essential so i made some unit champion the general lol

well, every general gets the "inspiring presence" command ability, even if they have none by default.
>>47448667
>To me it sounds like you are mad
>make a point
>support my point with details, facts and opinions
>YOU MAD LOL
Godfucking dammit, why do I even try.
I should have stopped reading at
> i never really saw insane magic being a problem in a fantasy wargame, only a benefit
really? Im okay with powerful spells, but end times was just a clusterfuck of who was going to cast the cheesiest spell first.
you had no balance at all because half of your army could go away in a sea of fireballs and you could do nothing to prevent it.
Earlier editions still had powerful magic but NOT this insane.
Thank god i jumped out of End times because every time i saw it it was just an unfunny clusterfuck. having random, dangerous elements(risk/reward on magic has always been fun)in a game has been always been my thing. Saying its better its retarded and end times is almost hated as aos.
Points are going to ruin aos? who knows, maybe not.
Sure thing is that warhammer doesn't work well with points. look at 40k and tell me its fun. Look at what became of whfb after 6th and tell me it was fun. it wasn't it was just a challenge of who had the most broken meta in the table.
even SGT-whose members are asked to help with the new comp(lol)was a clusterfuck with no sense, badly tought and really umbalanced.
SCT was a clusterfuck of horrible lists and we all should forget about it.
Tournaments RAW in my area or even with FUCKING WOUNDS worked better because people had some dignity. Bringing the cheese with points makes people do the magic mind trick "hey, its not balanced, the points are even, we're even! you are just a bad player a you don't know nuffing about the game and i dindu nuffin wrong". Go to wh40k general as a proof.
>>47448855
this solves a lot in the easiest possible way.

>>47449017
It solves a lot because that's what the rules as written meant.
>"No part of the model may move further than the model’s Movecharracteristic."
Can't really be taken to mean anything else.

>>47449017
What? I didn't just go to "you mad lol" and your post was long, not detailed. You just said end times was bad, cheesy and even if it wasnt bad it was magewank. I didn't mean to point out your anger as a counterargument, just to point it out. You were calling points cancer etc and should probably calm down, regardless of right or wrong.

My anecdotal experiences don't match up with yours at all so there's no real debate to be had there. Your description of end times is alien to me.

>>47434952
Yes its fun.

Yes she's good, if you're going for a "Charge in and kill everything before it can react" strategy.

Call me crazy, but I really like the idea of Lizardmen being the Order equivalent to daemons.

>>47450823
I do call you crazy, and yeah I can see that.

>>47450823
it's not a horrible idea, but they're cooler as flesh and blood creatures

>>47446237
All those kits are multiparts. You can build whatever. Black Knights could be Hexwraiths. And from the other set Mortis Engine can be Coven Throne. You get full sprues.

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Settled on a color scheme for my mawkrusha. He's supposed to look like a big badass badlands lizard. I have to highlight the black back, which means dark grey drybrushing and then a nuln oil wash right? I'm going to go do edge highlighting on the head, back and underbelly after all the drybrushign and washing just to emphasize the sharpest edges. Then I need to figure out what color armor the orruk is gonna wear.

>>47445665

Where do you live?

>>47449017
Yeah, and unit champs aren't heros thus can't be targeted

What is the Freeguild?

>>47446808
fluff, art, battalions, having the war scrolls in hardcover format

>>47448384
Archaons backstory is literally "No John... you are the demons"

His motives are "destroy the universe because ????????? "

How the fuck can anyone like this character

>>47454524
Model-wise they are just the Empire militia

So, what do you guys think.
Can I use the Skryre enginecovens on their own or do I have to field the Clan Skryre formation to use them?

>>47454777
You must do the Clan Skryre. I mean, you can use a single engine coven, you simply only get the special rules once you have a legal coven available. In casual games, you can obviously ask your opponent if you can use a single engine coven, but that'd be house-ruling.

>>47454625
>>47454524
Lore wise, free guild is the militia of Azyr, they build and guard the realmgates fort, let the immortal stormcast do all the suicide mission.

>>47456310
Weird name for a militia

>>47420189
This shit game hasn't died yet?

>>47456900
They're called that because they're volunteers who have freely taken up arms in the name of Sigmar, organized under guilds.

>>47457046
LOL

>>47457046
It won't die in at least few years. Deal with it.

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>>47457046
ayyyyy youre 5 hours late to the 10am shitpost

>>47452550
Bristol

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second model from my marble stomcast(no idea on the chapter name. Ideas?)
this is less messy than the previous oine, because the prev was mostly a colour test.
the gold on the halo is great(its on WIP so basically its just the first layer for the base)and make them all stand out. ill use more gold on elite units so you can see how powerful a unit is by looking at how much gold they have.
Toughts?

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>>47459319
moar pics

So I'm interested in getting into Seraphon but I want to avoid summoning. My friend tells me that without summoning the army is weak and worthless.

What do you guys think?

>>47459958
its false, seraphon are a good faction with a lot of sinergies and good units.
you will still need a slann to buff your units tho.

>>47459334
I'm not sure i like the yellowish stuff on the shield, but it;s much neater overall than yesterday

>>47459319
>>47459334
How about the Alabaster Cavaliers?
The marble effect is pretty cool. I like it a lot, but the cum stains look a little out of place...

>>47458308
Willing to pay shipping?

>>47460521
To Sussex, that is.

>>47460420
>cum stains
CANNOT UNSEE
you mean the yellow? the photo make it look worse than it is.
I used almost-watery bone an all model to give it some depth(a wash basically)ad then used some gryphone sepia in the recesses. So its more a light brown that act as a shadow. photo can be pretty misleading.
>>47460420
>Alabaster Cavaliers
doens't sound bad at all.

>>47460601
Maybe wash with red/brown 1:1 mix? the marble ought to be slightly pink

>>47460619
>ught to be slightly pink
depends on the marble.
At first I tried with poure whites and greys, but it didn't work: it was either too grey or too white, and looked monodimensional and with a lack of details. it was just like looking at a striped primed model.
then on the colour test i went for the bone and it worked pretty well. gryphone sephia is a good way to add some extra depth. Maybe I should have went for a darker brown? Ill try to add some drops on the next model.

>>47460724
The base color is great, I think the yellow just ruins it. I personally think a dark brown or slightly redder wash would look better but idk, it's hard to really tell without seeing it in action.

>>47459958
Your friend is a living shit post.

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Some guy at the flgs bought a box of Prosecutors yesterday, but he only needed the wings and the weapons for a space marine conversion, so I took the kit of his hands for a five bucks, since he'd have only tossed the rest into his bitzbox.
Now, here's an attempt to make something out of those wingless bastards. The basic idea here was a mix of scouts and infiltrators; basically some stormcast that sneakily range ahead of the force and pull ranger shenanigans or execute decapitation strikes from the shadows.
Opinions?

>>47460922
I think the poses are great and the conversion too, but...those fucking bolters.
they are probably the worse bit on the stormcast ever.

>>47460953
Well, I am in luck since I like bolters and crossbows, so the 'crossbolters' work for me, but I can easily see why they are not very popular. Still, these compact versions from the Dracothian Guard look better than the rather unwieldy ones from the Judicators, I think.

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>tfw those 48 jezzails I bought in 6th ed will finally see play again

>>47460922
Those look awesome, now I really want to do some myself, the crossbows are the ones from the dracoths right? Or are they the ones from the archers?

So Soul Grinders went up by 4 points in the SCGT pool doc. Now I need to drop 4 points and none of my units are 4 points... grrr. I might just drop it altogether and take another burning chariot

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>>47461383
>48 jezzails

>>47461406
Yeah, the crossbows are from the Dracothian Guard, the ammo pouches and heads are from the Judicators, backpacks and the blades are from the paladins and the shoulders, gauntlets and dagger hafts are from the Liberators. Arms, legs and chest are from the Prosecutor kit.

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Is this the comic where Malal and his champion apear guys? I've been trying to find it for quite a while now
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/White-Dwarf-83-VF-8-0-/311611289506?hash=item488d7aefa2:g:fosAAOSw~oFXNTS~

>>47461929
>Is this the comic where Malal and his champion apear guys?

No.

>>47462084
But on the wiki it says White Dwarf #83

>>47462142
>on the wiki

In truth it was printed in The Third Citadel Compendium 1985, The Citadel Journal Spring 1986 and The Citadel Journal Spring 1987.
Alternatively just look at it online and save your money, it's not a particularly enthralling story.

>>47462249
I'm just interested in collecting warhammer stuff, I saw both the 1926 one and the 1987 have "The Quest of Kaleb Daark", does the one from 87 have the same story or the part 2 from 86?

>>47462307
85 is part one, "The Quest of Kaleb Daark"
86 is part two, "The God-Slayer!"
87 is part three, "Evil of the Warpstone!"

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>>47462360
How do I find them? Do I just look for
>The Citadel Journal, Spring 1985
>The Citadel Journal, Spring 1986
>The Citadel Journal, Spring 1987

On ebay?

>>47462415
Yes, though the first one is "the third citadel compendium" rather than the citadel journal.

>http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XThe+Third+Citadel+Compendium+1985.TRS0&_nkw=The+Third+Citadel+Compendium+1985&_sacat=0

>>47462468
Second one's this one, right?
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Citadel-Journal-Spring-86-/322121690793?hash=item4afff2eea9:g:fQoAAOSwepZXRf4E
Also thanks man, sorry for bothering you but I've been trying to find these for quite a while now.

>>47462515
>Second one's this one, right?

Yup that's the one.
Skaven and Kemmler, a good issue.

>>47462558
I'm going to assume the 3rd one's super rare, right? There's only one on ebay and it's sold out on Amazon
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/GAMES-WORKSHOP-THE-CITADEL-JOURNAL-SPRING-1987-/160672229969?hash=item2568cfaa51:m:mdrx7EdfYXGwrsOICzsV8CA

>>47462595
>I'm going to assume the 3rd one's super rare, right?

No idea to be honest, if you're not in any hurry then you can always just wait too see if anymore pop up.

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>>47462639
Thanks for the help dude,

>>47462681
No problem, and good luck.

>>47460561
>>47460521
I'll go 50/50% on the whole deal inc. postage, the starter is on eBay at £54 free shipping, I dunno how much postage would be to send it though.

>>47438273
>redemption arc for Archaon

Another thing nobody asked for

>>47465821
I did.

Kastner deserves to be saved.

>>47466156
I don't think so.

Played Silver Tower with three other friends tonight and we all really enjoyed it. I fell in love with playing the Mistweaver.

So I'm a rather new player, still collecting my army (I played already at the local game store using their models, so I know the game rules btw).
I bought the darkshards/dreadspears/bleakswords set and I'm thinking of making them into darkshards as I already have a unit of blackguard and some cavalry so I could use some range. But a friend told me that they are among the worst shooters in this game, so that got me thinking a bit.
Is he right? What do?
pls no bully

>>47466543
I dont know. Why not read the darkshard rules, then compare them to some other shooter rules.

Dumb question incoming. What are battalions in this game?

Is there a big ass rule book for this that explains all this shit?

>>47466951
Basically 40k formations. Just a bunch of units thrown together and given rules to help them synergise. It gives room for listbuilding, but it can get a bit crazy, in that some battalions are parts of even bigger battalions. I'd say that moderation is key here.

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>>47466951
A battalion consists of a certain number of units of certain types, and gives a special bonus to these units.

Battalions can be found in battletomes, grand alliance books, Start Collecting sets, or purchased individually on the AoS app.

>>47466543
>the worst shooters in this game

Darkshard just another basic shooters, not bad nor good, but if you compare the price per model, they are pretty bad.

>>47467022
So that's how they jew ya into buying the battletomes

>>47466543
The thing with Darkshards is that they Hit on a 5+ and Wound on a 4+, but their Hit can essentially be bumped up to a 4+ (technically, it's stated that you add 1 to the dice rolls, but it basically means you're hittong on a 4+) if you have 20+ models in a squad.

There are a fair amount of units in the game that do this, but most/all of them do it in a different way. Skinks, for example, start a 5+ Hit 5+ Wound, and while they have the ability to take 20 for a 4+, they can also take 30 for a 3+.

With Darkshards, although they can only go as high as a 4+ to Hit, they also get two shots per model. So, the quirk with them is to make 20+ blobs and then blot out the sun.

>>47467078
Not just with battalions, anon. There are also various scenarios that you can either play RAW or modify to suit your and your friends' purposes, warscrolls printed on thick paper, a hardcover to protect the pages, and fluff (if you're that sort of person).

Just sayin', there's always a way, and GW's basically gone "well, why don't we just do every way at once?"

I apologise if the explanation's shit, I just wanted to respond quickly.

>>47466543
Those arcanites are the worst shooters in the game.
Come the generals compendium dark shards might be good but right now you're better off with shades or just using a bolt throwers.

De shooting kinda crappy in general though.

New thread
>>47468219
>>47468219
>>47468219