40K General

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First for METAL BOXES

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Ok, I know conventional wisdom says to magnetize Crisis Suits. If I do, that shit's gonna hold me up and I'm gonna lose interest and not finish them. So while I'm making them more for the modeling aspect, I still might want em in a game, so I want to make them into something usable.

Are Crisis Suits with 2 plasma rifles each pretty viable? If it helps, they'll be running in an army with lots of stealth suits and a Ghostkeel or two.

>>47414751
Are you autistic or something? Takes less then 5 minutes to do 3 suits.

>>47414751
Even if you're too lazy to magnetize right now, the guns can usually still snap into place pretty well.

That said, double Plasma is probably the single most all around great loadout for crisis suits and I hate it.

>>47414751
You can use a tiny bit of blue tack or gum in lieu of magnets.

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so GW are finally getting in on the predetialed bases game.
at a reasonable price too (60 for $33) which is the most surprising part.

>>47414751
Paint the unglued pieces now, drill out and glue in the magnets when all your peices are finished. If you don't finish all the weapon options leave them for later and skip to the magnetizing, but make sure you have at least 1 set of weapons done before moving on.

>>47415091
>$0.55 a base.
You know, I'm actually pretty impressed.

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Dark Eldar player looking for a second army. I mostly want a second army to play with my Poorfag friends. Aestheticly I like all the factions (besides space Marines and necron) what I really want is an army that plays well casually against Dark Eldar. Do Tyranids fit the bill?

>>47415091
Hmmm....

If they start to sell those generic desert(?) ones they have for their display models on their website, then I'd totally buy them.

>>47415146
Hmmm...

Seeing as I have no idea how DEldar play, I can't help you there. I know that they're on the lower part of the tier list, especially since jinking was nerfed in the FAQ, so I'd think maybe 'Nids or Guard?

>>47415091
Hope they make 25mm bases.

>>47415146
Tyranids fit the bill pretty well. Both are somewhat far down as far as far as tiers go, Flyrants and allies aside.

Dark Eldar will be able to bring a lot of their strengths to bear, since poison and cover will matter a fair bit more to Tyranids. However, they are also rather frail, which means Tyranids will be able to hit back hard.

>>47415171
Pretty much frail and fast with mass 4+ poison. I figure Tyranids would work since their monsterous creatures would have trouble but their inexpensive mass troops would make the Dark Eldar sweat.

>>47415213
Yeah, than go with what >>47415200 said.

Plus, I like 'Nid MCs.

Plan on maybe starting one once my love for the Guard wanes. Which will be never. Or when I get tired of repeatedly painting the individual guardsmen, then get tired of painting the individual nids, and so the cycle continues.

What points are you going to play them at?

>>47415194
I'm sure they've got more sizes and terrains planned.
this is probably just an initial test too see if people will buy it (at that price i reckon they will)

>>47414751
Take dual fusion
You'll never regret it

>>47415279
My only problem is this:
What am I supposed to do with the bases that come with my models? What about my models that I've already based?

>>47414982
I really like 1 Plasma Rifle, 1 Missile Pod, 1 Target Lock OR 1 Counterfire Defense System. Only time I don't use this is when I know I'll be fighting Space Marines.

>>47415306
don't the bases they come with. just rebase existing models, its usually pretty easy.

Question, how useful are LR Vanquishers?

With and without Tank Commanders and Pask.

>>47415306
make objective markers

How's this DE list? Playing a 3000pt 2v2 with Harlequins as my allies.

http://pastebin.com/ADT8Se8q

>>47415343
I mean, I know we'll probably lose, but how much of a chance do we stand?

for a combat patrol tourny i am gonna take eldar

i have 1 fire prism (because it looked cool)

i need 1 infantry unit and the rest can be unbound

whats the cheesiest shit i can get for 400 points total (so 275 with fire prism)

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>>47414738
Oh yeah baby, thats the stuff. Wonder what the rules will be

AV10-11, 10 capacity per container, ammo dump rules or something like that?

>>47415091
Based GW.

Sorry.

>>47415443
Watch them be budget drop-pods

>>47414615
How to make 40k fun again?
Current edition makes me wanna puke

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>>47415477
I'd be all over that shit, you could have a renegade marine chapter thats so poor it uses containers instead of drop pods.

>>47415517
homebrew, talk to locals more, play objectives, make terrain

>>47415343
>3000 pts
Why not just play epic?

>>47415517
Use 30k rules, play an older edition, play scenarios.

>>47415554
because dead game with unattractive tiny models.

>>47415554
It's 2 people splitting 3000pts, so roughly 1500 each.

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>>47415421
You're taking a Str 5 AP 3 large blast, a Str 7 AP 2 small blast, and a Str 9 AP 1 lance in one package in a 400 point game and you want more?

>>47415517
Don't play against faggots
Don't spam/take the following:
Superheavies
D weapons
invisibility
Grav
Bikes
FMC

>>47415600
so another fire prism ?

I'm unsure how force organization works. Can I take a Deathwing Strike force, Ravenwing strike force, and a Combined Arms Detachment and still be considered Battleforged?

>>47415644
You can take any combination of formations and/or detachments in a battleforged list

Is ignores cover the most over powered mechanic in the game right now?

>>47415656
Thank you, based neckbeard.

>>47415421
>>47415600
>>47415642

I got news for you eldar fucc boi's - a Fire Prism is not a great unit in Combat Patrol or any other game for that matter.

Now, it is a cool model, so if that's what you like , can't stop you

>>47415150
Those are using technical paints

>>47415700
I have slain the sealclubbers
Beaten them from our FLGS
Champion of the casual players
Destroyer of tourney fags
Harasser of house rules
Scion of dumb tricks that work
Advocate of the balanced list
Librarium of the BRB
And much more, for I am clean shaven... A legend
I will not stand for your baseless claims

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How could the gem paints work? I'm genuinely interested.

>>47415789
My bet is on a translucent paint that hardens, creating a semi-thick layer like gloss.

>>47415787
My apologies, friend.

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>>47415789
another set of paints? either i'm missing something or my paint palate is limited.

>>47415333
Well, it's a single shot tonk that will miss half of the time with BS3 and also miss a bunch with BS4.

And even when you hit, and most realiably pen because of armourbane, you only really blow shit up on a 6. Which doesn't happen that often, so it kinda whiffs a lot and isn't as multipurpose as some of the other variants, like the LRBT - which is very mediocre, but I can hit whatever the fuck I want with it and not sweat about it.

How's this for my first list? I set it at 1,000 points so I'd know what I'd need to get before I buy anything else.

Battle-Forged IG CAD, 1K points.

-HQ
-Tank Commander, 30
+Leman Russ Vanquisher, 135
+Camo Netting, 15
+Hull Lascannon, 10
+Heavy Bolter Sponsons, 20
Total, 210
+2x Leman Russ Exterminator, 130 (260)
+Hull Lascannon, 10 (20)
+Multimelta Sponson, 20 (40)
-Total, 145 (290)
-Complete Total, 500

+Heavy Support
-Hydra Flak Tank, 65
+Camo Netting, 15
-Total, 80

-Troops
-6xVeteran Squad, 60 (360)
+Autocannon HWT, 10 (60)
Total, 70 (420)

++Complete Total, 1,000 points.++

>>47415238
Probably 1000-1500 points. I find anything more just has games go on too long and you still get to bring some fun units.

>>47415644
as long as every unit is part of a detatchment/formation then your army is battleforged.

>>47415907
Hey man, you pay 10 (or 20 in the case of the MM) for the pair of sponsons, not each.

In any case, think about the kinda target the Vanquisher will be aiming for (vehicles), and you'll see the heavy bolter sponsons don't match. Put some multimeltas in there.

His friends work well, it seems like you'll be split firing that squadron all the time to be able to hit similar targets, ya? I'd consider leaving the tank commander squad with only him and a mate and a separate tank on the heavy support. I know it seems like more guys with him makes him safer, but my experience is that the bigger a target the squadron is, the easier it is for people with haywire and grav to kill them all in a single salvo.

Also, might be a good investment to trade one of the veteran squads for the Forward Sentries upgrade on the other ones, for +1 cover save and Tripmines, which make your enemies' charge disordered, and give them a little extra time to hold the line since it seems they'll be around to hold objectives and be a nuisance.

>>47415907
Do you hate templates?

>>47415984
>>47415907
personally I'd just split off one of those exterminators too run on its own. You'll want your heavier firepower to be able to engage multiple targets without relying on passing a LD test.

>>47416032
yup, cause even if you pass the ld for split fire, 2 of your tanks will end up shooting at the same thing

>>47415984
Ah, I know it's for the pair, that's a typo, sorry!

I put the Heavy bolter sponsons on it because I thought it would be more helpful in case infantry or the like would come at it, easier to defend itself, but I see that it's probably a bad decision now, looking at it.

I'll make a revised list, and put one of the Exterminators in it's own Heavy support slot, thanks.

Giving the Vets Forward Sentries also sounds good to me, forgot about that actually!

Hmmm... Should I keep the Hydra, or no? If I get rid of it and one or two Vet squads, I could fit in more upgrades as well.

>>47416002
Nah, I just think that both the Vanquisher and Exterminator look awesome.

>>47416032
>>47416065
Got it.

Some of the people on here really are seal clubbers. But they bring their own kind of fun to the game.

>>47415091
I'm surprised it wasn't an Ultramarine in that picture.

>>47416101
keep the hydra, its common enough to start seeing flyers at 1k.

>>47416106
where do i fall on the scale if i play chaos daemons?

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>>47416120
>Hurr GW ultramarine favortism

Go meme on dakka.

>>47415728
so what would be the stupidest thing you can take be ?

>>47416101
I never really used the hydra, but it's a tank completely devoted to AA, cause it snapfires when firing at the ground and stuff.

idk if at 1000 points anyone is even gonna bring a flyer, and if they do, well, less stuff contesting objectives for them. I'd consider switching it for a Wyvern, a beast against infantry, and also the same kit, so you can magnetize and get both!

Also, on veterans: I don't usually foot slog them, but put them inside a chimera with meltas or plasmas. The squads with the autocannons and camo cloaks are great for sitting at objectives, but you gotta consider that when you shoot at a target the big gun hits well (like a light vehicle), the other 7 mooks with lasguns and BS4 you paid for are gonna do shit.

For board control and massed infantry I like infantry platoons better, veterans are meant to bring better BS and lots of good guns where they are needed, at least the way I use them.

>>47416152
A rank. B+ for kdk.

>>47415091
The guy who uploaded that picture says that GW is going to be showing off new technical paints too.

>>47415789
Anyone think Stormhost Silver might be the new go-to silver for Storm Wardens?

Which Imperial Armour is the Deredeo Dreadnought in?

>>47416264
On the FW website.

>>47415607
bikes alone arent bad

>>47415789
I'm really curious about those gemstone colors. The current metallic range has served me well so far, but I'm interested to see what sort of effect those have.

>>47416101
Alright, here's the revised list, what do you think of it so far?

Battle-Forged IG CAD, 1K points.

-HQ
-Tank Commander, 30
+Leman Russ Vanquisher, 135
+Camo Netting, 15
+Hull Lascannon, 10
+Multimelta Sponsons, 20
Total, 210
+Leman Russ Exterminator, 130
+Hull Lascannon, 10
+Multimelta Sponsons, 20
+Camo Netting, 15
-Total, 175
-Complete Total, 385

+Heavy Support
-Wyvern Suppression Tank, 60
+Camo Netting, 15
Total, 80

+Heavy Support
-Leman Russ Exterminator, 130
+Hull Lascannon, 10
+Multimelta sponsons, 20
+Camo Netting, 15
Total, 175

-Troops
-4xVeteran Squad, 60 (240)
+Forward Sentries, 10 (40)
+Autocannon HWT, 10 (40)
Total, 80 (320)

++Complete Total, 960 points.++

I've forty extra points, don't know what I can/should add onto it though. I do like flamers, but I'm not sure if that would be an appropriate choice here.

Just a bit of clarification on formations. If I take a Primary detachment of a CAD, and give it the basic amount of troops and an HQ, I can take any number of formations I want and it doesn't count towards my CAD slots, right? The only thing is that detachment specific rules don't affect those formations, right?

Black Templars player, ain't using the Gladius because Crusader squads are the black sheep of the codex.

>>47416264
free FW download. Deredeo is weird wouldnt rate the rules

>>47416371
That list has no Executioners.

Both the one you posted and the New IG player's.

>>47415091
>>47415131
>>47415458
GW seems to be trying to make itself better. I think the next step will be streamlining 40k rules (at least make the book more readable, people miss so much and it doesn't help lots of books GW make miss the page numbers) and making them free. They've started with repackaged units, so I expect that to be better soon.

I don't hope, cause we all know where that road leads, but I'm curious to see if GW gets better. Even if it's a little bit. Ever since Kirby fucked off GW seems to have got better, even a tiny bit. Not perfect. Not good even. Not even acceptable. But baby steps.

>>47416397
Sorry, I said I'm sleep deprivied, I originally had Executioners in the list then changed it for more reliable AT stuff for potential AV14. So I'll delete and restart.

>>47416371
>So what you do is you make those Executioners BS4 with Grizmund
what executioners?

>>47416414
See >>47416409

God dammit!

Am i a fucking attention whore or something?

Why won't people critique my lists?

Fucking dakka dakka, its like they got a filter on americans posts or something.

>>47416293
My suggestion would be to run an armoured battle group for the tanks. Gives you more options and makes your tanks troop choices so they become obj.sec.

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>>47416431
>no one plays your faction
>nothing wrong with the list
>looks like a standard list
>we gotta talk about memes and other things instead

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>>47415907
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Grizmund is the shit.

HQ: Grizmund (280)
Troop: x10 Vets (60)
Troop: x10 Vets (60)
Troop: x10 Vets (60)
Heavy: Leman Russ Vanquisher x3 (405)
Heavy: Hydra Flakk Cannon (70)
Heavy: Wyvern (65)

Should be, based on my sleep deprived maths which I'm shit at anyway....

Total: 1000

The Vanquishers should reliably deal with AV10-12 with S8 AP2 Armourbane; though might get tougher on AV13+ and things such as Knights. As only 3 shots per turn. However they can also be turned on MEQ/TEQ's.

So what you do is you make those Vanquishers BS4 with Grizmund. Then you put him nearby so his bubble covers them. He can help with armour duty if need be. That means re-roll the first missed To Hit shot of the shooting phase. Making sure those Vanquishers hit. The Veterans can deal with infantry and capture objectives, while the Wyvern is supporting them with it's goodness. The Hydra keeps skimmers and flyers busy.

That would mean, based on your current list, one more tank. If you've magnetised your tanks turrets or your friends are cool, should be able to proxy LR as whatever. Grizmund doesn't have a model either, so a regular Leman Russ with a tank commander should do.

Only other thing missing is the Wyvern, which most IG players will recommend you get due to how good it is, though many might get annoyed if you bring more than 2, especially in a 1000 pointers (assuming you ignore this).

>>47416293
flamers might work, you can buy 2 for each squad. Or 4 flamers and 4 grenade launchers. Or some flamers and some meltas, i don't know man.

Now, walk us through what you intend to do with each part of this list on the table, and then we'll know for sure if it sounds good

>>47416431
What list is yours.

>>47416400
that and the troubles of being a publicly traded company. we get these half assed boardgames with discounted minis because not many shareholders are just going too accept lowering the prices of products on the shelf.

>>47416431
What list? The two lists in this thread have had replies. I can try and help but I'm knackered and suck.

>>47416480
That list is an unbound list btw.

>>47416484
>half assed boardgames
Yo, Deathwatch was fun as fuck.
I want to try out Silver Tower.

>>47416484
I was under the impression that the board games, especially the AoS one, were 'fun'? Friends, who were not interested in AoS or WHFB, played it and enjoyed it.

We know that GW spent a lot of money last year opening up their new specialist game design studio. Which has already started producing Bloodbowl minis. I think the other planned ones were Necromunda, Battlefleet Gothic and Epic? Plus Lord of the Rings (why? It's a good game but I doubt people play it).

I would love to see GW get the license to produce World of Warcraft tabletop game. Think about it, they did it for Lord of the Rings, why not for Warcraft film?

>>47415789
>Three gemstone colors
>Primary colors of light instead of primary colors of pigments
Fuck you, GW.

>>47416509
I played Silver Tower with some kids at my FLGW.

It was okay. I had more fun as we went on, but there's honestly not a whole lot of tactical thought. It's just rolling dice pretty much.

>>47416497
I thought somebody would say that. Most people I've played with don't care, same as the Necron relics in Shield of Baal are for the specific dynasty. House rules.

He wouldn't do my list anyway so it's not really a problem.

>>47416528
>Warcraft themed tabletop
God I would hop on that and roll Tauren soooo fucking fast.

OR they could use the license to illustrate the early Azeroth wars of Titan constructs vs elementals vs old god stuff from the Chronicle book.

>>47416480
>people complaining about wyverns in 1k matches
there was a taufuck yesterday who posted a list with 2 riptides at 750. you're fine

>>47416528
Most the GW boardgames I've played are fun, however the key is to not poopsock them.

When you play too many games of a short boardgames too frequently, they become less interesting for you very quickly.

Like, if you beat or reach turn12+ on Assassinorium, don't rush to play another go in the dame evening. Take a few days to kinda enjoy the memory of it, reflect on what mistakes you made, savoring your victory, etc.

>>47416459
>>47416480
I'm afraid I've no knowledge about the Armored Battlegroup. It's a Forgeworld thing, correct? Would anyone have a pdf of it that I could download, or is it available from their site?

>>47416481
Well, I'm thinking the Tank Commander on the Vanquisher to give it BS4 to make it hit more often, as well as an Exterminator to be able to reliably take out other stuff as well, and be issued orders.

The sole Exterminator in the Heavy support slot will be used to be able to shoot at different targets from the Tank Commander's squadron, as well as add more armor presence to the list, as well as I just liking them.

The Wyvern is to round out the list and because it seems like a good anti-infantry unit.

The Veterans are to hold objectives and fill out the troops slot of the CAD. The Autocannon HWT would let them defend themselves from things with higher armor near them, and the flamers would fend off other infantry units. Plus I just like the models as well, honestly.

>>47416497
>he doesn't let Grizmund act as a normal HQ due to IA2 being older

>>47416480
I'll fix it for you, since the other guy wants to moan (he'll probably just go 'it doesn't count as Battleforged either cause the group was before Battleforged and Ubound! :^))))

HQ: Grizmund (280)
Troop: x3 Vanquishers (465)
Troop: x10 Guardsmen in Chimera (105)
Heavy: Hydra Flakk Cannon (75)
Heavy: Griffon Strike Battery (75)

There, 1000 and Battleforged.

>>47416613
Look up the Cadia Supplement in the MEGA rules link. It has rules for armoured companies and they're not too shabby.

>>47416630
>he doesn't let Grizmund act as a normal HQ due to IA2 being older

More of its not the same codex. Also he isnt outdated, IA:1:V2 is current. So, your list is still unbound.

>>47416597
Indeed, I would like to see it too. I love the Paladin designs in WoW, despite not being Ally scum. I quit before WotlK. Stormcast in AoS remind me a lot of WoW Paladins.

>>47416613
It's available. Look in OP, go to the Mega link, search for it there.Under Forge World. Imperial Armour 2: Imperial Guard is the thing. It basically allows you to run tanks as troops. I made a list for you that is legal, but the Battlegroup was in 6th edition before Unbound and Battleforge, so you might get autists moaning. Probably best to stay awya. I generally allow people to use the HQ as HQ's in a CAD since they're expensive anyway.

>>47416601
Aye. Plus they add new rules into White Dwarf. They made Daemon Prince rules for Assassinorum. Then they made the Scions rules for Deathwatch.

>>47416613
Just type "Imperial Armour 1: 2nd edition pdf download" into google

>>47416657
I didn't post the other list. The one in my post is Battleforged. The list I posted in that comment is Battleforged. HQ and x2 Troop choices is minimum, which is what I've done.

>>47415542
>super operator stealth marines that infiltrate the enemy base by shipping themselves in these crates

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>>47416630
We have a legend among us.

>>47416695
WE CALL THIS MANOEUVRE EXPRESS SHIPPING

>>47416101
ha bloody ha

>>47416702
Yes, that is silly, I don't see how it's relevant? House ruling is a thing anon, I never said everybody has to do it. I specifically said 'let', which means to allow. As in, to not have to follow the Battlegroup. Regardless, I fixed the guys list to make it Battleforged.

But if you want to try and force a comparison between regular codex and specialist rules, go ahead.

>>47416706
OUR BROTHERS ARE IN ORBIT, PREPARED TO AIR MAIL AND SECURE THE PERIMETER

>>47416702
FAQ. That means it was asked by more than one person... I don't see how multiple people could ask that question.

>>47416753
I'm willing to be that it was the only Tempestus question they got, and they wanted to act like every army got a FAQ

Here is my recomended list.
1000 points

++ Astra Militarum: IA01.2 - Armoured Battle Group (2012) (Combined Arms Detachment) (805pts) ++

+ HQ (245pts) +

Company Command Tank (245pts) [Warlord]
····Vanquisher (85pts) [2x Multi-meltas (30pts), Artificer Hull (20pts), Camo Netting (20pts), Co-axial Heavy Stubber (10pts), Heavy Bolter]

+ Troops (560pts) +

Battle Tank Squadron (215pts)
····Exterminator (215pts) [2x Multi-meltas (30pts), Camo Netting (20pts), Lascannon (15pts)]

Battle Tank Squadron (180pts)
····Vanquisher (180pts) [Extra Armour (15pts), Heavy Bolter, Pintle-mounted Heavy Stubber (10pts)]

Battle Tank Squadron (165pts)
····Vanquisher (165pts) [Co-axial Heavy Stubber (10pts), Heavy Bolter]

++ Astra Militarum: Codex (2014) (Allied Detachment) (195pts) ++

+ HQ (60pts) +

Company Command Squad (60pts) [Flak Armour, 4x Veteran w/ Lasgun]
····Company Commander [Close Combat Weapon, Flak Armour, Orders]
········Laspistol [Laspistol]

+ Troops (135pts) +

Veterans (65pts) [Flak Armour for Squad, Veteran w/ Flamer (5pts), 8x Veteran w/ Lasgun]
····Veteran Sergeant [Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol]

Veterans (70pts) [Flak Armour for Squad, Forward Sentries (10pts), 9x Veteran w/ Lasgun]
····Veteran Sergeant [Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol]

>>47416753
I looked through the intial question posting. There were two questions about MilTemp, that was one of them.

A bunch of people later went and posted questions on that very image, so maybe they'll get something substantial in the second draft.

>>47416742
WE HAVE SENT NUMEROUS TRACKING NUMBERS, ALLOWING FOR MULTIPLE AND LIGHTNING QUICK DELIVERY LOADS

>>47416773
>>47416781
Makes more sense. I wonder if somebody just hoped for a 'yeah, go ahead'. I mean, if your mates are OK with it, go for it. I mean, it's not like Scions are not allowed in AM. It has them in there. Battle Brothers can join squads. He'd just need to make an ally list.

It's silly. You're probably right though.

>>47416786
MEANWHILE OUR GROUND FAWCES WILL ENSURE COMPLETE PACKAGING AT OUR WAREHOUSE

>>47414615
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ

>>47416613
Check the mega first before asking.

>>47416293
Here's a pro tip. This is such a well thought out list that every choice is the right one. Unfortunately for your opponents, they'll find a way to exploit the solid defense and find a way to break the armor. Of course you like flamers.

>>47416775
I'm really tired, but this list somehow feels worse to me.

Might be the formatting, might be the fact that those tanks cost more than they should compared to the newer codex.

>>47416824
Eh, anon said that he didn't know what it was, I'll let him pass this time.

>>47416819
WE ARE THE SHIPPING MARINES! WE ARE THE EMPERORS COMPANY RATING!

>>47416480
Running two Wyverns is broken as hell.

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Yo guys, aspiring drawfag here. Thought I'd share what's been on my mind, namely gun nuns and muscle milfs. Do SoB live long? It's always seemed to me that all sisters are like twenty and I guess die young.

>>47416601
I've got to say, the Chaos Lord's tears are delicious.

>>47416866
>"Ya got any warpdust, sugar?"

>>47416866
Normal human lifespan. I assume that when they get too old for front line infantry duty they crew vehicles / act in support roles or return to the convent to help train initiates.

>>47416866
Well, you're faces are slightly less manly than GW's. Which isn't too hard to do, but it's a start.

All the fanart depicts them as anime girls but they probably live till their 50's ish? Or the oldest ones LOOK in their 50s.

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>>47416888

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>>47416866
Canonesses are unlikely to be 20. 50 is more like it. Possibly older. Who knows.

>muscle girls

Disgusting fetish in my opinion.

>>47416838
Ah, thanks mate! Honestly, I feel like keeping it like this and adding one or two flamers to each of the Vet squads. In a higher points list, I think I might go for two Vanquisher Tank Commanders and put the extra Exterminator with him, maybe. I'll be reading through the Imperial Armor I just downloaded to see what everything in there is like as well, but I think I'm going to stick to my current list plus the flamers.

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>>47416894
They do, but this artist always makes them cute as they murder things. Yeah, I know, it's not like that most likely. Let me dream, anons. Let me dream. The only 'decent' female models GW did were the High Elves 8th release. Sister of Slaughter wore masks. Succubus for Dark Eldar were OK.

>>47416912
Huh, adding two flamers for each Veteran squad totals up the points to 1,000 exactly as well. That's nice.

Hows this list look?
Trying to be competitive but not cheesy

Slaves to Darkness [1500]
>Belakor - 350
>5 Chaos Space Marines - 150
(1 Meltaguns / Icon of Vengeance / Combi-plas / Rhino + Dozerblade)
>5 Chaos Space Marines - 150
(1 Meltaguns / Icon of Vengeance / Rhino + Dozerblade)
>5 Chaos Space Marines - 150
(1 Meltaguns / Icon of Vengeance / Rhino + Dozerblade)
>Heldrake - 170
>Heldrake - 170
>Forgefiend - 175
>Forgefiend - 175

>>47416890
>>47416899
It seems odd to me that they're supposed to be 100% natural humans, like thematically. If you're human, you worry about things like wearing a helmet and using relatively practical weaponry, but the SoB act like super powered mega warriors even though they're, like, five-eight on average or whatever.

>>47417006
Blind fanatical faith is a hell of a drug

>>47416998
Do you really need the dozer blades?

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>>47417006
rule of cool, if marines can do it then so can anyone else

>>47415728
what kind of units are good in combat patrol ?

>>47416509
I was more meaning that knight one. Which is just a reprint of an older WD game

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>>47417019
He can doze if he wants to, he leave some points behind. Becuase Hovercraft ignore, and if they wont roll, well they are no units of mine.

>>47417028
I'll stick with 'roided uberfrau in my headcanon. It's less cute but it makes more sense.

>>47417057
Renegade?

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>>47417065
whatever rocks your boat anon, i don't really have an opinion on sisters. also due to the backing of the church they could probably do 200 and look like cougars easily. at least the diplomats and those not doing frontline work

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>>47416851

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Say one nice thing about Indrick Boreale.

>>47415091
they've done this since age of sigmar came out

>>47417071
Yeah. Rules from a WD 1 or 2 page game packaged with 2 knights and some terrain at big discount.
Seems more like a "we want to lower prices but the board/shareholders won't let us directly" move than a serious attempt at a game like the proper boardgames.

>>47417233
Done base packs with the terrain already molded?

I don't think I'd have mised that.

>>47417006
40k actually does have forcefields just for neck and heads for those that choose not to wear a helmet.

>>47417148
His armor looks cool.

>>47416162
>>47417054

Are you new to Eldar? If you are playing competitively, even in combat patrol, take Scatter Laser Windriders and Warp Spiders. You would need nothing else if you took max amounts of these.

Other contenders are War Walkers with Scatter lasers and possibly D-Cannon Artillery Batteries

It's all about # of shots per points and that's what Eldar have.

>>47417344
i was thinking about warwalkers, but i thought i should do 4 bright lances and 2 scatters vs the enemy tanks.

(everyone will have 1 tank at least and 1 infantry unit)

anyone have the really old citadel terrain tutorial books?

>>47415789
>Gloss wash

why

>>47417637
wet surfaces. kinda neat but couldn't that just be achieved with a gloss varnish over... anything else?

>>47415333

I've run dual Vanq Tank Command squads before, they did all right. The re-rolls were a fucking godsend, and they did reliable damage (first game, Pask takes first shot of the game, fucking cores and Explodes a Razorback, killing two of the five SM in it and the player makes 'em book it for a corner of the board where they did nothing for the rest of the game). Its the kind of thing that looks like it'd be useful, until you remember how wonky vehicle damage is atm. If you can get them to be more reliable via some kind of ability bonus or psychic power or something, or if you're really lucky, they'll probably make their points back.

Now, if you want really good Vanqs and don't mind being hated, check out that Armoured Battlegroup thing that FW did.

>>47417670
It does seem rather unnecessary. I feel like it's supposed to be a tinted gloss, but I feel like you could just get that effect normally

>>47417006
They have powered armor. They don't have to do the lifting, since the mechanical shit they're wearing does it for them.

>>47417065
They're probably not roided, but they are likely jacked with athletic builds from constant training. Like Korra or Marlen Esparza. They are more likely to be built like Shaolin monks or boxers from /actual/ combat training than they are to look like muscle sculptors/body builders who work out specifically to reach a high amount of vanity muscle mass and perform one or two exercises really well while being shit at other stuff.

>>47417703
for lazier painters with money to burn i guess. dunno.

What would you add to a Crisis suit with double-flamers?

>>47417019
I find the game is all about speed.
A rhino has a 1/6 chance of getting immobilized when it goes over terrain without the blades.
With the blades it only has a 1/36 chance, I cant make my rhino's faster but this allows them to stay fast when they might otherwise become immobilized.

>>47417805

A third flame-thrower.

>>47417805
a homosexual

>>47417815
If you play tested it and it works, then go for it. At my FLGS we don't have too much dangerous terrain generally.

where should i start with crons? i really like wraiths and deathmarks, if it makes any different

>>47417572
If you're playing true combat patrol, all AV is maxed at 12, all Wounds are maxed at 2 and all Hull Points are maxed at 3. Do you know all the rules for Combat Patrol?

>>47417637
Yeah I dont see that replacing gloss finish. Shiny ink or no, Im still putting a few layers of hardcoat on.

>>47418143
maybe you should start with those.

And warriors because you have to.

>>47418143
If you like Wraiths, run Wraith-wing. Grab a basic Necron Lord to save points, run a CAD with full sized Wraiths. Go punch people in the face, cap points.

You can take as many Deathmarks as you want, they have a formation for a single squad of them.

>>47418143
Consider picking up a start collecting box just for the value and to give yourself a good core

>>47418046
That's a very good point different levels of terrain would make them useless but my FLGS does have quite a bit of terrain.

Thanks you've given me something to think about.

>>47417006
They literally have so much faith in the emperor, that they have a 1/6th chance to survive literally anything you can throw at them short of things that remove them from existance.

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Playing HoR Kill Team tomorrow for the first time. Potential opponents are Tyranids, SkitMech, Tau, Dark Eldar, and Orks.
Should I bring:
Blood Angel Tacs + JP Death Company
or
Nurgle Daemons - Beasts, Drones, Plaguebearers, Nurglings

Short mini-tournament, 3 games. All lists have to be fully painted, based and wysiwyg. Custom tables made just for tomorrow. Im gonna be taking pics to try to build hype for an flgs run HoR campaign, I'll post a few of the best shots here tomorrow night.

>>47417028
>grey knight
>powerfist
triggered.

>>47417148
He was a trend setter

>>47417615
i might at home. I can check after work.
what are you after?

>>47418368
i wouldn't be surprised if grey knights had powerfists but don't use them due to having daemon hammers, also draigo has a storm shield.

So I have an idea for a tournament list.
1850 pts.
Iron priest
2xblood claw squads
150 individual servitors.

I simply place walk across the battlefield, enemies can only kill a few of them per turn, take points and use bodies to prevent people from contesting them. I might need to run some skyclaws to get to the points first.

>>47418608
You're an ass. Could work, although anyone with heavy flamers or similar, let alone hellstorms, will flay your shit

>>47418608
Tank shocking would get weird

>>47417006
The schola progenium puts out psychopaths. Read the stormtrooper codex, they aren't exactly regular humans by the end of it.

Sisters can afford to be even less sensible because they've got Ecclesiarchal sugar-daddies paying for their power armour.

>>47418608
Cute, but disordered charges will mess you up... if anyone you play can remember them.

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>>47418608
there are easier ways to ask for a beating anon. servitors aren't a threat and going unbound isn't doing you any favors

How would you recommend someone goes about making a fluffy yet competitive Chaos Daemon army?

I feel like theirs very little in the codex which allows you to create a real "army" of chaos daemons.

I know their is a warband and chapter generator that helps flesh out backround but does anyone know if their is a similar thing for daemons?

>>47417615
>>47418426
Here guys - does someone want to add to the mega?

http://mork.synology.me/side/warhammer/How%20to%20make%20wargames%20terrain%202nd%20Edition.pdf

Selling for $200+ on amazon - ouch.

>>47418920
mono god is fluffy as you can get. otherwise you could build it on a theme, i name my slaanesh units after make up brands and each goes for an activity like music or ink work.

as for the competitive side fateweaver, flying deamon prince, skullcannon, heralds, screamers, flesh hounds, pink horrors, and soul grinder are competitive choices. summoning is popular but expensive in points and will get you dirty looks.

also while grey knights are a legitimate threat and deamon hunters it's not hard to get a leg up on them rather easily.

>>47416866
There is the red and black audiodrama canonesse that was 200 years old thanks to juvenile treatments, like any other high ranking person on the imperium you can get access to this treatments.

What changes would you make to sisters to make them a bit more viable but keep their identity?

I'm bored on my way to London, so I have nothing better to do... I was quite taken by the thought of a multikit flier that would be a bomber with some kind of incendiary payload or a fighter/ground attack craft with something like a Hellhound's inferno cannon. Then give it an act of faith that can increase its jink save, or reroll it.

I've seen people suggest that penitent engines should be MCs, and talk about cheaper troops choices, like initiate nuns. They should get tempestus scions in their book too, or their own brand of stormtrooper perhaps (though I suppose you could just ally scions)

Acts of faith could use a tune-up too, maybe make them more flexible like Guard Orders/Chaos Marks - either a unit has access to a couple, or you can purchase acts from a list to a limited number.

Anyone got some other ideas?

I'm curious. Does anyone here have knowledge about real life military organization? If so, at what level do you think the tabletoop operates? Platoon, Company, Battalion...?

>>47418856
It is not Unbound, all rules legal.

>>47419095
a platoon and change, depending on the army you're playing and the size of game

Inexperienced player here, played a few games as mech IG and then had some fun playing some rounds of Kill Team with friends since it wasn't so vehicle heavy. But how fucked am I if I transition from everything being tanks, chimeras and wyverns to foot slogging infantry with tank support? Second attempt at a list with only 105 infantry models.

1500/1500

Pask, Leman Russ Punisher +Lascannon, 2 Multi-meltas
Leman Russ Eradicator +Lascannon, 2 Multi-meltas

Company Command +Vox-caster

Platoon Command +Vox-caster
Infantry Squad +Vox-caster
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapons +3 Autocannons
Heavy Weapons +3 Autocannons
Heavy Weapons & Primaris (ML2, Divination) +3 Lascannons
Heavy Weapons & Primaris (ML2, Divination) +3 Lascannons
40 Conscripts & Commissar

Veterans +3 Plasma Guns, Vox-caster, Grenadiers
Veterans +3 Plasma Guns, Vox-caster, Grenadiers

>>47415665
Yes, if it matches or beats the amour save of what you're shooting.
God I love the Nova Cannon

>>47416650
Except it starts with five russes.

>>47417272
That's exactly what it is.

New guy wants "more for your money in boxes".
Board don't want price drops because it looks bad.

So the answer is bundle stuff together at a reduced price and fix the basic kits when repacking or updating rolls around.

>>47417312
Cite please.

>>47417703
A gloss finish interacts differently with subsequent washes.

Not sure it's something I'd use though. Ifi need a gloss surface it just gets a blast of gloss varnish.

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What would you consider the most optimal size for squads (say Firewarrior counting potential Drones)? And, if you attach a transport to them?

>>47419352
Priest do basically everything commissar conscripts do better, for a slight decrease in the amount of times you pass frfsr you get a properly fearless tarpit that also does a surprising amount of damage in combat vs anything it can actually hurt through sheer weight of attacks with re-rolls.

>>47419464
From my experience, minimum of 6, no drones, on a Devilfish to grab objectives. Equip with EMP if you want them to act as emergency vehicle harassers.

Gunline if you want to play for fun.

>>47419431
>Looks bad to drop prices
This will never not be hilariously retarded. Prices fluctuate all the time.

>>47419352
Have not played in a while, but my local meta was about precious dreadnaughts and armour.
As an ig player the idea xenos could muster more than I was offensive.
So i reformed into an armoured battalion.
Tanks as my troop choices.
Tanks everywhere.
The look on my first opponents face as he realised only a handful of things in his army could touch me... (wipes tear)
Also remember an edt detachment can include that flying titan gun for extra lulz
For bonus points get that noice twin linked sensor array thing and point it at something that would normally ruin your enemies day.
And laugh, confident the emperor will provide

>>47419618
>The look on my first opponents face as he realised only a handful of things in his army could touch me... (wipes tear)
You sound like fun guy to play with.

>>47418608
if you want too drown your opponent in bodies take the endless swarm formation 5 times. Enjoy your 300 respawing infantry models. Plus you're still battleforged.

>>47419630
Eh considering lots of them were trying to cheese things no guilt felt.
Against the more bearable players i used a light armour list with only about 6 tanks.
(recon and transports dont count do they?)

>>47419644
I remember the good old nid apoc formation with that ability... what was it?
Out of ammo sarge? Pure gold haha

Alright so I got 2 forgefiends but no bases for them. I checked the rulebook and it tells me it doesn't matter and I should feel free to model something appropriate using other models as a guideline.

Anyone got any ideas? I know they're mounted on the MC-sized ovals like the GK Dreadknight. What kind of material could I possibly use that is workable for detailing? Was thinking wood but it's too porous and too much of a pain in the dick to seal.

>>47419598
An across the board price drop is generally regarded as a sign of commercial weakness in retail.

>>47419824
use MDF. just terrain and paint it like normal and its all good.

>>47419630
Not him but as a rule I have several units i field that I can use to crank up the cheese should my opponent try to be cheesy or do underhanded things (Or simply has a sour attitude and I want to end the game ASAP since they'd be ruining the fun).

Ghostkeel: Strong and solid unit but has glaring weaknesses so it's a fait unit. Spamming the formation ability? OP

Necron Conclave of the Burning One: Very strong but is T7 so can be drowned in S4 attacks as is standard procedure so big tough creatures. If I give them the God-Shackle though they become T8, impervious to S4 and nigh impossible to kill without the D.

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>>47415789
>There will almost certainly be Duncan videos showing off these paints

>>47419845
MDF still needs to be sealed, it's just glorified particle board and it sucks up water-based paints like a thai hooker promised a US green card. Really don't trust wood products for something like this, just so much hassle.

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Is there a reason to ever take Gretchins? Cheap objective holders?

>>47419094
I'd go with the We Bretonnians Now approach. Start the game with the blessing of the lady, I mean emperor, unless you attempt to seize the initiative. Get +1 to invulnerable save and all acts of faith are active while the blessing's in place. Chance of being lost when stuff runs away. Gained again when you complete an Adepta Sororororororitas™ Tactical Objective™.

How'd I do?

>>47419907
Cheap way to fill a CAD to get more elite/fast attack/heavy support sluts.

>>47419907

LoS shenanigans.

>>47419887
it's really no hassel. the glue you use for the basing material will seal it well enough for what youre doing at the same time anyway. This is a miniature base not some outdoor furniture.
other than cutting it out MDF bases aren't any more hassel than the plastic ones. if cutting is too much laser cut ones are cheap enough on ebay, usually available in mdf or plywood. occasionally acrylic if you're overly paranoid about wood.

If you're running Archangels or Flesh Tearers detachment for Blood Angels, are you allowed to take relics from the regular codex as well?

>>47419978
yes. flesh tearers or any other succesor is just a cosmetic difference.

>>47419974
I'll probably default to acrylic or something plastic. Cause even if I use the PVA to seal the thing, it won't take paint very well after.

I'm just wondering.. does anyone here get any hassle or complaints for not using official bases or irregular base sizes for their minis or custom-built stuff?

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making a 1500 point chaos army
got about 30 points too play with and not sure where to put them.
Are any of the legecies of ruin worth it for a Hellblade?

>>47420035
>Cause even if I use the PVA to seal the thing, it won't take paint very well after
yes it will. I've used MDF for a few bases. Did them the same way as I do the plastic ones and they turned completely fine.

>>47419916
I like it, but if acts of faith are always active, they might have to be nerfed. It could be that while blessed by the emperor, you don't have to test for acts of faith?

>>47419907

Cheaper than Boyz but do their job (holding Objectives) better. With a 5 point Squig-hound they also have better morale than a 10 man Ork squad.

That very sad fact should tell you everything you need to know about why Orks are in such a bad place.

>>47420136
>>47419094

I think the way to go would be too just make acts of faith usable each turn on a LD test kinda like orders. Ministorum preists give a reroll and some characters or things like pentinent engines can let freindly squads use theirs if close.

Exorcists get an AA missile firemode (say S7 AP 3 skyfire. change them too 2D3 shots isntead of D6 for consistency. Plus have them in squadrons like most other tanks are going.

Not hugely familier with them but they seem a little lacking in longer range gunnery. maybe give immolators and autocannon or lascannon option.

>>47420086
Well I guess I can still try if I find some.. Would just prefer something non-porous/organic. Would suck to find my done-up bases warp or rot sometime down the line cause the humidity here is off the charts a lot of the time.

so you never got any complaints or warnings for not using the right bases? I mean I'd cut the bases to the right size but is it a common occurance to have someone go "Wait, that's not official? Are you sure it's the right size?".

I'm a worrier, so I'm sure it won't be bad at all, but i just worry someone might think I'm trying to game for an advantage.

>>47420308
>so you never got any complaints or warnings for not using the right bases? I mean I'd cut the bases to the right size but is it a common occurance to have someone go "Wait, that's not official? Are you sure it's the right size?
as long as its close no one will mind. Even in a GW store it'll fly.

>>47420340
>Even in a GW store it'll fly.
Wow, that says a lot! Fair enough then. I'll keep looking. Thank you!

>>47420068
Not really. The Hellblade is nice because it's cheap.
It's role is to unleash a barrage of fire from the most sweet angle and be annoying to destroy.
If it last more than one turn it's doing more great.

Anything else is a waste of points.
Also, most Legacies just give you some reroll, which isn't useful. The Hellblade is already TL and reroll 1 on his primary target.

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>>47415306
Put all the bases into a big pile with a sign on it saying "Skullfield Base Fire: Now smelled in 46 hives." and use it as terrain.

>>47420384
>hellblade
>barrage of fire
I think you're over selling it a bit.

>>47420732
6 twin linked rending auocannon shots is nothing too sniff at.

>>47420778
It was great a couple of editions ago. No so impressive now.

>>47420855

>everything is a riptide

>>47420917
Even the Riptides?

>>47420778
>>47420855
Eh, I'd pay 130 points max for it.
How much is it?

>>47420942
115

>>47420974
Sounds good, it's cheap enough to throw in to a list if you have something spare.
What ballistic skill is it?

>>47421010
BS3, that's the downside.
And it's fragile (2hp, 20 armor).

On the plus side, it has a mini-teleport he can activate every turn (1d6+2") which is great to stay on the field and to hit the side you want, has 5++, and can select one opponent flier so he can reroll 1s to wound/penetrate. Also, it deepstrike if you want.

>>47421010
3. but its got a 5++ and does this special D6+2 inch shift in any direction at the start of every turn.

>>47421075
10 armor*

>>47421010
3,but all its guns are twin linked

What do you call a double-barreled Slugga?

>>47421158
a sluggas

A tree fiddy.

Cos that's it's effective BS, geddit?

>>47418759

wounds dont spread between units. It would take 150 turns

>>47421229
Models can spread their attacks across different units I think.

>>47421229
>>47421271
A model can split its attacks among any unit it is engaged with.

>>47421229
You could have at least looked up what a disordered charge is before posting.

>>47421271

ah yea you are correct. Still you need to be engaged with them.
Also, youd only make it to turn 2 before the time runs out...

>>47421299

HURRR
WOUNDS DONT TRANSFER BETWEEN UNITS STILL. Did you read the rules?

>>47421392
And yet you've already admitted here >>47421374 that that isn't a limitation.

Why won't you admit your idea is shitty?

>>47421374
Being engaged with them isn't hard. Having my unit of 10 guys charge 10 different servitors isn't going to be all that hard.

>>47421436

Oh you think im that guy. No.
Have you ever tried killing several units with a few models? You will miss most, you wont know which ones, they wont all wound and they might very well wound several per model and some no wounds at all. Seriously you think 150 units will dissapear within 5 turns? good luck with that
He'd get fucked easy by any gladius though

>>47421472

Yea then hes got 140 more. Of those 10 you will perhaps kill 6-7? some will be overkilled and some just get lucky. On his turn you might mopp up depending if he keeps them close together enough.
It will be a shit show and he can cover the field.

>>47421497
And i have another several dozen infantry plus a bunch of blast weapon toting mcs. Really itd be relieving to face an easy list like that.
You wouldn't need too kill them all anyway, just play too the objectives killing only the few you need to clear a path sometimes, or if its killpoints you'll be drowning in dozens of them by the end.

Typhus
Ahriman
A metric fuckton of Plague Zombies with d3 infiltrating from various sides

Fun?

>>47415665
No, cover saves aren't even good most of the time.

Units valuable enough to warrant high AP fire usually bring invulns. Units too cheap to warrant high AP fire either have superior armor, or bring enough models to not care.

Cover saves being mostly useless is a bigger problem than ignores cover. Jinking vehicles are the only things which actually wince at the prospect.

>>47421535
How did Ahriman get persuaded into that little venture?
>Where are the books Calas?
>I only see zombies
>You told me there would be books

>>47421535
Killing hordes zombies is actually very fun.
For you, a little less so i guess.

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>>47421565
>They're right there, just read some you... you... DOUBLE TRAITOR
>Ahriman's face when

We know that CSM overall are very overpriced but what prices would be good? How big of a points drop would be ok? Speaking personally, I find it very hard to move units around my theme. The vast majority of my points are all theme-based auto-includes so I have little leeway. But I could have more legroom if everything was cheaper. So maybe..

Rubric Marines: 23 points each, 58 point mandatory sorcerer -> 20/30
Warp Talons: 30 -> 22
Havocs: Cut weapon costs by 1/3 or half plus make Flakk missiles baked into missile launcher
Forgefiend: 175 -> 130
Land Raider 230 -> 200

Just rough ideas. How much is good enough?

Why in the hell do ignore cover weapons always seem to bottom out at AP5?

Fucking useless unless you're killing orks or guardsmen, name one god damn thing that relies on cover that doesn't have a 4+ armor save?

>>47421798
Dropping the prices is stupid.

Make the units stronger and more interesting to play, not cheaper.
Cheaper is something GW does to boost their sales.

>>47421808
Nova cannon is AP4, its what i use to remove firewarriors/scouts/warrior blobs

>>47421808
Tau Stealthsuits generally. They have stealth and shrouded which gives them 4+ cover in the open but they're still 1 wound and T3 with a 3+ armour, so they are still incredibly squishy. But put them in any cover and they're 2+

I'd say the same for the Ghostkeel but its reliant more on the special rules that gives cover saves and its own machinery augment the rules themselves. If the Ghostkeel loses its drones, it becomes a lot more squishy.

>>47421831
eldar don't count.
they have dildo helmets.

>>47421808
>name one god damn thing that relies on cover that doesn't have a 4+ armor save?
>that doesn't have a 4+ armor save

need to work on your reading comprehension, there, bud

>>47421808
>I want to ignore cover AND armor

I bet you play Marines.

>>47421818
I'd argue they need to do both. I wouldn't mind paying the same point costs for stronger units but as it stands you have a lot more flexibility on fielding cool units with cheaper costs.

>>47421851
>nova cannon
>eldar
>not glorious IMPERIAL GUARD ERADICATOR NOVA CANNON
pls

>>47421808
The real question:

Why are cover saves so useless?

Even in the grim darkness of far future, most soldiers should prefer standing behind things to standing in the open.

Currently it's just a discount mediocre invuln save unless you have special rules that make it a discount 2++.

>>47421894
Because having it affect Hits (either roll to Hit, take Cover Saves, then roll to Wound) would slow the game down.

Or if it reduced the shooters BS score, it would slow the game down because math is hard.

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>>47421871
Marines can actually do it pretty easily, pinion demi-company can give ignores cover to a few tactical and devastator squads. Thank goodness centurions aren't an option at least.

There's a white scars relic too.

>>47421798
I feel like the Plague Marines, Khorne Bersekers and Thousand Sons should all be 20 points each.

I never really played with warp talons, i find jump infantry in general is overpriced, but i'm not sure what they should be worth.

ML should be 10 points with an extra 5 for flakk, and not just on chaos marines.

>>47421925
The other problem is ballistic skill stats never got revised downwards when shooting modifiers went away. Used to be even decently skilled shooters hit on a 4+ or 5+ with the modifiers, now lots of stuff hits on a 3+ or even 2+, quite often with a reroll.

>>47421894
They are not actually all that useless. There is plenty of ap2/ap3 blast template spam that make even spess mareens grateful to have a cover save.

>>47421894
I'd say cover is a package of sorts. It does provide a somewhat flimsy discount invuln save but it's real magic is and should be line of sight. It provides genuine realistic cover to units, especially mobile ones to be able to attack and avoid retribution, adding another level of depth to the gameplay. Terrain positioning, outflanking, mobility, line of sight, ignores cover weaponry, harassment tactics and hit'n'run outmaneuvers.

all of these congeal into one big delicious XCOM-tier parfait of fun, which is why I love playing urban games in bombed-out cities and shit.

>>47421933
I'd make flakk missiles baked into Obliterators at no extra cost and getting rid of the "Can't use same weapon in 2 consecutive turns". What fucking bullshit is that? The whole point of Oblits is that they have absorbed tons of guns and can use them as the situation calls. They are meant to be the Infantry-based Versatile Artillery role... but that thing takes out the Versatile part!

Honestly, who in there right mind is going to pay an extra 10 points for flakk on top of the 15 points you already pay for a missile launcher?

>>47421925
>Or if it reduced the shooters BS score, it would slow the game down because math is hard.

But improving BS doesn't affect speed at all? Because plenty of armies do that.

>>47422004
The imaginary players GW writers believe are playing their game.

>>47421988
I think obliteraters should top out at 5 models, not 3. They are just too god damn fragile to take up a whole heavy slot

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What is Sly up to these days anyway?

>>47422020
not to mention missile launchers are heavy, and flakk doesn't even have the interceptor rule.

>>47421988
Chaos, Orks, and Tyranids all follow a design pattern where any cool thing they get is implemented by a drawback.

Cool random strength gun? It costs 3x what other armies pay for a consistent version of the average roll.

Cool unit that eats guns? They have to use a different one each turn.

Space Marines, Eldar, and Tau are strong because they aren't designed with this mentality. Their cool things are just cool things.

If Tau dislike melee combat, what's with the ritualistic knives?

>>47422037
It would actually be balanced if all of them were designed in such a way.

>>47422022
Completely agree. Plus if you field 3, everytime one of them dies they have to take a morale check and risk running off the fucking board!

>>47422036
I feel Havocs should start with free heavy Bolters as baseline. as it stands they're too expensive for anyone to take them (unless they truly want to sacrifice for theme) and your usual schtick is to take max heavy weapons and then add more bodies to protect them.

At least 18 point Heavy Bolter marines would be an attractive choice against horde armies. There's too much bloat and too much chaff in the Heavy Support slot.

>>47422091
They used to like it but then they made guns and stopped training it.

>>47422133
>made suits
Fixed.

>>47422091
their cutters. tau are emo like that.

>>47422116
Yeah, I wouldn't mind devastators getting a free flamer or heavy bolter as a baseline.

>>47422031
Not existing.

>>47422154
>free heavy bolter
Heavy_imperial_fist_breathing.wav

>>47422091
the knives are symbolic and essentially jewellery not intended to be weapons.

think of it like a US marines sword.

>>47422181
>kek

>>47422154
No fuck you, you get grav weapons on the cheap and wargear/rules that actually help you do your job. Heavy bolters for free for us is only fair~

>>47421894
If you change it to only reduce BS, it doesn't help you against high AP templates.

If it reduces BS by 2 AND gives a cover save, it's too good. 2x plasma crisis suits in rapid fire range, which are designed to kill MEQ/TEQ, go from 12 hits / 7 unsaved wounds against MEQ in cover to 4 hits / 2 unsaved wounds.

>>47422031
Hiding in the codex somewhere.

>>47421988
It's Chaos, anon, it's not suppose to be consistent nor fully under control. Besides, barring assault cannon and lascannon, the obliterator basically has two sets of similar guns. Plasma cannon and TL plasma gun, heavy flamer and TL clamer, multi-melta and TL meltagun.

Which codex do you think is at the best powerlevel?

Should everything be brought up to Space Marines? Dropped down to Orks? Something inbetween?

I have trouble studying eldar/dark eldar codecs because they are so fucking dorky looking that I never want to play them.

Unfortunately this makes it a pain in the ass when I'm fighting them cause I have no idea what they are equipped with.

Good god, what faggot designed those fucking helmets? Its like sticking a god damn "shoot me" sign on their fucking foreheads, they pop up from behind cover like a big god damn bullseye...

Arg! So stupid!

>>47422275
Everything brought to Necrons
>Not as OP as Tau or Eldar
>But better than most

>>47422259
I want a twin linked clamer.

>>47422259
>It's Chaos, anon
No, I've had it with that shit. GW writers use that fucking excuse to justify everything terrible. It's the big bloody CSM boogeyman!

Loyalists get equipment and psychic powers that are stronger, more versatile, more stable, reliable AND cheaper and plentiful to boot. If you're going to use "It's Chaos" then it should be a gamble: Make it OP as fuck and make it have huge consequences to use or a high chance of something awful happening.

That's Chaos whole thing isn't it? Power for the price of horrific shit going down. Make that real.

>>47422154
>another codex potentially gets something nice
>Marines player: me too!

Every fucking time

I wish there were more low strength AP 3 weapons. It would help clear the divide between 3+ and 4+ armor saves, basically the whole game is designed around the fact that anything that has AP 3 is better for shooting at vehicles than it is for shooting at marines.

There are plenty of armor piercing guns that could theoretically pierce power armor and could be fielded as standard issue by infantry.

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>CSM on 32mm bases
>Chaos Lord and Chosen on 25mm

>>47422351
While were at it, why not have a rhino that carries 12 men? (assuming there isn't a FW model that already does that)

>>47422351
I agree. Low strength, high AP and low AP high strength are both underrepresented.

>>47422375
Looks like CSM will be getting the Necron treatment
MEQs will be on bigger bases from 8th Ed onwards

>>47422351
I always thought grenade launchers would be golden for that role. They are assumed they deal damage via shrapnel but that's not it. The concussive force of the explosion itself would mulch anyone even through some forms of armour.

Think of how bomb disposal experts have to wear special soft/padded armour to not get their limbs ripped off by the force of the explosion in their face. If the armour was rigid it would act like the Medieval example of a knight in full plate getting his head caved in with a well-placed morningstar to the noggin.

Ergo, rigid plating like Power armour would be detrimental to the marine within it. OPf course having grenade launchers be so abundant would make 3+ armour fairly useless, so perhaps special-issue grenades or a rule that works like a pseudo-grav.

>>47422393
Yeah, I put all my CSM on 32mm months ago.

Raptors on 32mm is a must.

>>47422444
Nice dubtrips Chaosbro

I recently bought another box of stealthsuits so I got 3 on 25mm and 3 on 32mm, so I said fuck that noise, I'm using 25mm for those too. Keeping the 32s to make kitbashed special characters as a sign of their status.

>>47422220
GW may make rules DLC, but do they have what it takes to make rules easter eggs?

how happy would you be if the a new CSM book contained the following in the ranged/special/heavy sections of the armory:

10pts: Disintegration pistol 8" str 4 ap 4 pistol Instant death, Gets hot!
15pts: Disintegration beamer 18" str 5 ap 3 assault 2 Instant death, Gets hot
30pts: Disintegration Cannon: 30" str 6 ap2 Heavy 4,Instant death, Gets Hot, Armourbane

>My army should get this!
>Then my army should get that!
>I want these!!!

>>47422609
Depends. The armoury would suggest only champions can take them and most have bollocks defenses and overpriced. A gun is only as good as the chassis, no use having a god-tier gun on something that can and will most likely be blown up on Turn 2 at the latest.

That said, nice guns.

>>47422609
Just give them volkite already. Invent some fluff about the dark mech running off with the STC or something.

>>47422628
Guilty as charged.

>>47422628
>MARINESPLAYERS.txt

>>47422651
What's Volkite do? what's its "thing" ?

I was thinking about bringing an IG mostly artillery CAD. Is the artillery in Imperial Armour vol 1 2nd edition still usable with the new Astra Militarum codex? Because a lot of it would only be in the Krieg list then? And if it is, then would people look at it as being a bit dirty to use , especially stationary basilisk and Medusa variants.

>>47422686
30k weapons. gets more hits based on how many wounds it does

>>47422637
well only the chapions/IC can take the pistol. the beamer and the cannon can be taken by havocks, raptors, normal CMS, and possibly bikers
>>47422651
personally i dont like many 30k things in 40k. more is more, and if i can have diffrent special weaponsbetween my 30k AL and my 40k WB, i am all for that

>>47422628
Give DE effectively something along the lines of Corsair rules, with 12" movement and full BS for passengers instead of any psychic power to true HS options

Or just a new Codex

>>47422690
Oh, so it's kindof like Tesla just with a different name?

>>47422716
no. tesla so more hits on a roll of a 6. for every wound that volkite causes, it gets another hit

>>47422716
It's Tesla with wounds instead of hits, yes.

Shouldn't Chaos have better tech and soldiers than the Imperium?

>>47422744
it should have more dangerous tech. these are different things

>>47422726
>>47422727
Wew. That'd be rather nice to have. But I agree with >>47422706 . I'd personally prefer some awesome chaos-only Dark Mechanicum-made weapon classes.

Most armies have something personal to them. Like Eldar Shuriken, SM grav, Tau Pulse and Necron Gauss/Tesla. We need more of that, more individuality.

>>47422609
>CryingTyranids.nom

>>47422765
>That'd be rather nice to have.
play cult mechanicus: the Magos Dominus gets one

>>47422375
>Black Legion warband
>central figure is a character from a different chaos faction
The worst part about the Chaos supplement reprints is that they clearly just don't give a fuck. Kranon front-and-center in the Black Legion warband. That fucking copy-pasted sorcerer in the cabal.

Christ, imagine if they put out a Black Templar's specific Battle Demi-Company and the central figure in the picture was Marneus Calgar painted black. And, of course, the Demi-Company doesn't let you take Crusader squads.

>>47422744
chaos marines range from old legionaries to recently turned, so individually they're stronger but not on average.

>>47419106
aren't tech priests limited to a squad of 3 max servitors?

>>47422810
Yeah I'm not changing armies just to have a pistol on an HQ.

>>47422806
>.nom
keked

>>47422765
That's actually one of my main problems with my CSM army. The army doesn't feel unique. My units have no special rules, and all my 'unique' guns are limited to single models (hades autocannons, baleflamers, reaper autocannons...)

>>47422823
to be fair it's a different paint job but the better question is why are they using those emperor forsaken metal havocs with missile launchers?

>>47422835
I know what you mean. Even with my Thousand Sons, AP3 bolters on 2 ludicrously expensive troop choices are the best I get. there's no EXCITEMENT for playing CSM, which is the biggest fuckup of the codex for me. It's underpowered, overcosted and lolsorandumb but if it was fun to play I wouldn't give two shits, I'd field them more.

At least the BL supplement gave me the cabal, so I can now field lots of sorcs and fling spells willy-nilly, like the TS should be doing.

>>47422806
i mean, at this point anything make nids cry

>>47422832
hey, its an assult weapon not a pistol
just messing with you. i do love me some CM though

>>47422806
Eh,4's to wound, even on the heavy one.Honestly, who even tries to build anti-nid; most armies can do it accidental.

>>47422912
>4's to wound, even on the heavy one.

With four shots. That are instant death. That's *almost* statistically going to kill one MC per round all game, regardless of invuln/cover.

>>47422912
With 4 shots. Would be averaging out to 1 wound before saves.

Biggest problem with that weapon suggestion is it suffers from Gravgun Syndrome. Aka it does the best job period.

Blow up Vehicles? Throw away those Meltas, because this gun shoots 3 extra shots, always gets 2d6 to pen and shoots further.

Kill MC? Fuck plasma. This guns got it. (Granted Plasma weaponry are falling behind. Personally would rather Plasma Cannons to be Heavy X and lose the Blast profile.)

Gravguns need to be toned down. Not sure how, but one suggestion I saw that would be interesting is that it wounds based on "Size" so Bulky, Very Bulky.

>>47423025
i mean,multimeltas have needed a buff for quite some time. these weapons mainly suffer from being multi-shot weapons with gets hot; IE over the course of 1 game, a cannon gets hot 4 times, which is one dead marine.

as for the vs vehicles thing, could replace armour bane with haywire? or lance maybe.

would be nice to see grav work like that xbawks hueg sonic cannon, so str 4 for normal, str 5 for bulky, str 6 for V. Bulky, str for E.Bulky/MC/vehcles

I wonder why chaos doesn't get land speeders. Is there an influff reason for this?

>>47423139
>is there a fluff reason for why C:SM gets 10,000 more and better options than C:CSM

no

GW just doesn't have anyone who likes the army