Pathfinder General /pfg/ DSP edition Unified /pfg/ link re

>>47411050
>DSP edition

How is this different from every other thread?

Archives of Nethys still has all the unerrata'd content! Get it while you can!

>>47411077
In no way.

>arcforge update scheduled for today
>no update so far
fucking sslarn

Reminder that:
>T3 and T4 are where the game is the most fun.
>7th level spells are non-functional gameplay destroying abominations, meaning most T1 classes ruin games at level 13 or 14
>A martial dealing too much damage is a problem. It makes encounters boring and difficult to balance.
>Then kinestist is fine

>>47411160
>T3 and T4
>not T2 and T3
You're objectively wrong.

>>47411160
I agree with all except the 4th

And I'm even playing one

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How do I build a Summoner? The ball-o-tentavles approach doesn't seem that appealing to me?

>>47411178
Anon
Warders with no discipline swaps are high T4

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I think I've got the dumb, /pfg/. I just can't seem to get the hang of bookkeeping for Clerics.

Should I fill all of my spell slots or leave a few open and pray through the day?

>>47411178
>my sorcerer getting simulacrum at level 14 totally doesn't destory every possible campaign.
I mean sure, you could pick a weaker spell list, but when the only thing keeping the game together is a gentelments agreement to pretend that simulacrum doesn't exist it isn't "balance".

>>47411184
Post your build? I can probably help.

>>47411178
>>47411184
Don't address it.

>>47411231
Alchemist also has simulacrum while being T3.
Whether you take simulacrum or not is the same as Leadership and depends on whether you're a dick.

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Alright /pfg/. Since OP failed to start off with a discussion question, here is is.

Talk about your experiences in Binding and Summoning Outsiders and other apparitions

dangit OP, this was going to be my OP pic.

>>47411210
Unlike Wizards, Clerics do not have the ability to prepare slots later in the day. You choose one time of day (dusk or dawn), and that is when you prepare your spells. If you don't prepare all of them at that time, you have to wait until the next day to get another chance.

>>47411253
>whether you're a dick.
That is exactly my point. If the game only functions when everyone plays nice then it's not balanced. You could play a level 20 all wizard game if everyone wasn't a dick.

>>47411204
Depends on what you want it to do. Eidolons and Summoners have a highly varied kit suitable for many options and design choices. Start with a basic concept, then build for it and optimize as you go.

What did you have in mind

>>47411286
100% wrong
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Preparing-Divine-Spells

>The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a divine spellcaster can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.

What are some fun gestalt combos? Paizo only.

>>47411387

Bard/Paladin is pretty fun, as is Rogue/Magus, I'd say.

>>47411421
>bard/paladin
L E W D
E
W
D

>>47411387
Witch/Ranger

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>>47411204
But what do you want your summoner to do? Do you want to have a personal bruiser with monster summing and buffing as a backup? Do you want to be a tag-team duo? Do you just want to vomit summons at the problem and hope it goes away? Do you want to BE the one our there ripping and tearing?

If you ask me, there's only three flavors of summoner: Normal, Synthesist, and Master.

>>47411282
>>47411050
Sauce plz.

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>>47411387
>fun gestalt combos

Any Int-based class mixed with Promethean/Preservationist Alchemist

Alright, so which would work out better for me, as a Shonen Anime Punch Man:

I know I'm going to be maining Fool's Errand and Elemental Flux as my primary disciplines for this guy. Strength is going to be his primary attack stat, and he's multiclassing Bloodrager/Aurora Soul, taking Razor Wit to go into Daring Hero. Level cap is 10.

The question is, do I go Bloodrager 4/Mystic 1, Bloodrager 3/Mystic 2, Bloodrager 2/Mystic 3, or Bloodrager 1/Mystic 4. And which bloodline would be better while remaining thematically aligned with fire - Fire Elemental Bloodline, or Gold Dragon Bloodline?

>>47411467

>tfw you will never encounter Shizuru in wolf form

JUST

Is trying to do Good but failing via incompetence a Neutral act or an Evil one?

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>>47411582
>alignment

Anon, don't try to make sense of it.

>>47411582
Since, as we all know due to casting Evil spells being an Evil act, no matter what we do with them, it's the MEANS that matter, not the ENDS, it is in fact a Good act.

>>47411600
Well, what am I supposed to do, ignore it even though a huge chunk of the game's mechanics interact with it, including class features for several classes?

It may be dumb, but it's hardcoded into the system and my group won't play anything else because they can't agree on anything else.

One likes GURPS, two others hate it. I suggested FATE once, nothing happened. We've tried looking at WHFRPG only for one guy to walk out right there. The list goes on.

Pathfinder is the only thing EVERYONE is willing to play.

>>47411582
Success or the lack of do not make a difference when it comes assigning morality to actions.

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"Shuguticons!"
"Die Elsebots!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewO1pC5JQdc

>>47411387
Paladin/Oracle

>>47411703
Why are you still alive?

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>>47411492
The mango is called Monster Collection, its a fun little fantasy romp for people looking for something simple and fun. Plus the Mentor figure who guides the party is bretty cool since he's essentially an old Adventurer who's doing a favor for his former bro (the protag's teacher)

Pic related, the old lizard at his finest

>>47411650
Yes, actually. Ignore alignment except when people have abilities that care about it, since the label of "good act" or "evil act" is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the roleplay of your characters.

Just like paladins have "Smite Person I Don't Like" and be done with it.

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>>47411703

>>47411343
>>47411467
I was thinking something like buffer in back and a souped-up animal companion in front. Is going the weapon wielder route decent or does that get complicated with item slots?

>>47411650
Go read the Lo5R core book, the sections on honor and prestige. Treat part of it like that.

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There is one thing that had come to my attention lately since I open my game for applications in Roll20. Most of the players that are millennials did had shown to not consume sword and sorcery literature not any other media except video games or the occasional flavor of the month. How come someone be interested into a sword and sorcery themed game if had a very poor exposition to the stories that constitute the genre?

>>47411972
Because the thematics are cool and their understanding of the genre leads them to be interested?

>>47411972
We need a Boigah edit of that pic

>>47411492
The op is Kyokaisen-jo no Horaizon (Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere).

>>47411522
So... anyone?

>>47411522
Gold Dragon, then the Dragon Style

Be the Fist of the Dragon!

>>47411582
It's a Dumb act. If your intention was Good, and you did not go about it in an ungood manner, you're still a good guy.

>>47411972
Because RPGs aren't about that anymore. They're about empowering minorities and exploring social themes. Come on.

It's 2016.

>>47411972
I had some and I'm 23, of course I'm more of a urban fantasy guy myself. My first exposure to fantasy was actually playing D&D in third grade then getting and reading all the 3.0 and 3.5 books I could get my hands on until around 8th grade (when I just got the lot of them as a torrent). I've made a few RPG nerds since.

>>47411972
The most popular show on television right now is swords and sorcery, mate.

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>>47412081
Go away Crystal. You'll never get your hairy mitts on my Changelings!

How best to give an animal companion survivability, as a noncaster? Have it take armour training and get it some barding, obviously, any other feats or magic items I should consider?

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>>47411757
Assuming you're taking regular summoner, it's easy to just go through the spell list and grab the best buffs. Weapon use is kind of clunky and expensive depending on the route you take, but if you want to only use one kind of weapon, grabbing a proficiency feat might work. If you want them to just be able to grab any old thing and use it? The 4 evolution points probably won't dig too deep on anything but high-optimization, but it'll come online pretty damn late unless you're stuck playing unchained. The "easiest" route is to just go for the standard quadruped with lots of natural attacks+pounce+flight, then making it large/huge and adding whatever other spices you want. Basic, but effective.

If you're unchained, you could easily get away with both you and your eidolon going for archery depending on what level you start at, since the Azata typing plus serpentine form nets high dex + martial proficiency. It's gimmicky, feat-intensive for you and your eidolon, and not making the best use of your features, but it can work. I know an anon who picked Synthesist is doing something similar because they were stuck rolling stats and had like, 3 scores below 10.

>>47411387
Oracle/Barbarian can be silly, but not as silly as something like Skald/Warpriest

>>47412163
What's the full story here?

>>47412229
Crystal was trying to claim changelings have a much higher instance of transgenderism and it gives trans changelings a bonus against the Call to become a hag, because they would have to become women to become hags (no such thing as a trans hag, I guess.)

Anybody want to help me with character art? I'm not looking for a commission, just suggestions of anime characters to use an image of. Turns out I have no idea what to look for when I want a low str, high dex and con ethumion in a Jojo pose. Hell I have no idea what low str, high dex and con even looks like.

>>47412262
Please tell me they were joking or had literally nothing to do with the changeling creation process. Even for paizo that's insane.

>>47412300
It didn't have stuff to do with the changeling creation process. It was shit she wanted to shoehorn in after the fact.

>>47412300
But no its not a joke. She referenced it on her tumblr and the Paizo boards iirc.

>>47412300
Crystal Fraiser? You've never heard of her before? She and.. Jessica..something? Are the SJW cancer infesting Paizo.

She also made literal hormone treatments for transfolk. You know, in a world where gender-changing magic not only exists, but is affordable. That doesn't count, because then they wouldn't have MUH TRANS STRUGGLE!

>>47412338
>>47412346
>>47412363
I'm glad I haven't given them a cent then, that shits crazy. I'm actually ashamed that I'm going to be buying something for my next character since BSing it isn't worth it. I don't follow that drama at all, closest I get is you guys.

>>47412363
The first time I ever heard of Crystal, it was because she pulled an intended transman from Iron Gods, because making trans people villains was UNACCEPTABRU.

It made me want to show her just how villainous we can be

>>47412363
Jessica Price

But to be fair James Jacobs and Mark Moreland are quite bad in their own ways as well.

>>47412433
Let's be real here, they're all fucking terrible. JJ has his mind control fetish, there's whatever person behind the scenes keeps injecting rape and pregnancy into the setting and game, there's Price and Frasier with their cardboard cutouts and fake representation...

Like... Fuck. Of all the Paizo people (Seifter excepted), I like BULMAHN the most out of all of them. At least HIS magical realm is /magicians/.

>>47412363
>She also made literal hormone treatments for transfolk. You know, in a world where gender-changing magic not only exists, but is affordable. That doesn't count, because then they wouldn't have MUH TRANS STRUGGLE!
Explain further

>>47412404
>intended transman from Iron Gods
Explain.

>>47412404

Yeah. I can get having issues with a very high PERCENTAGE of villians being gay/trans but saying they can't be that at all is seriously worrying.

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>>47412404

It's good that you spend time here instead of the official message boards.

I'm not sure if TRIGGEREDPOSTING is better or worse than arguments over climbing air...

We get it. When you don't pay your writers shit then you get shit writing.

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So! Who here had themselves a fun session this weekend?

AND WHO HERE GOT CANCELLED YET AGAIN AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

>>47412486
JJ also is behind the errata's to Erastil and Bolka and the various statements about good alignment unanimously supporting homosexual marriage.

Moreland more sideline supports they anti-misogyny/anti-homophobia stances but is extreme in his animosity to tech advancement (ie. only advanced guns are in alkenstar because they go out and prevent other nations from advancing on their own a la area 51).

>>47412579
so...could someone highlight for me what she said that is the problem? Just seems like overly correct "lets not offend anyone" speech to me.

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>>47412623

>>47412486
His magical realm isn't that, it's beating up his childhood bullies with the power of his mind.

>>47412491
I'm guessing it's exactly what it sounds like. There are built in spells to do it and a quick google search lead me to this:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/elixir-of-sex-shifting

>>47412601
My group is on hiatus and I haven't played in ages. I'm considering just starting my own game for a bit.

>>47412623
eeeeeeeh

I am perfectly fine with the "errata" to the passage on erastil in Rivers Run Red. The core golarion books painted him as the family community man and a pretty neat god, while Rivers Run Red was... eh.

"Women who think destroy communities and should stay in the kitchen" is messed up. Various other gods' racism and genocides NOT being nongood is also messed up, but since Paizo seems to be trying really hard to not go for arbitrarily-everyone's-a-jerk planescape alignments, I can understand what they did.

This is mostly a personal preference, though. I really enjoy the "look I don't care how you do it or who with, settle down and make a family" Erastil. I don't enjoy the RRR version.

Remember when there was that big shitstorm over Erastil and /pfg/ was basically arguing against something that the pazio people weren't saying? That was an embarrassing shitstorm.

Was the Sorcerous Bloodline feat removed from PoW:E entirely, or is it going to be released in a different book?

>>47412686
Yea. We all agreed the RRR version was shit. I like the current Erastil.

>>47412713
The "errata" thing was entirely that, though. Clarifying that RRR Erastil is not a thing.

I hate JJ and Paizo's writing, but let's not misrepresent them when they did something decent for once.

>>47412609
My group hasn't started yet. I did get one of the other players built (then realized that I forgot the warder changes from expanded), got another (only one who can build on their own, he did break the 3.5 artificer after all) started on a zealot, and I started building again from scratch because DSP is awesome.

>>47412686
>look I don't care how you do it or who with, settle down and make a family
But that's offensive to single mother's, anon. We can't propagate unfeminist thoughts like that!

>>47411972
I've only played vidya for it, and it's something I'm interested in.

Never really got into fantasy books.

>>47412609
My session is tonight! In, like, a very short time! We're waiting for one player to show up.

If she doesn't we're just going to run through the first session real quick, it's mostly fluff anyway. We'll all pretend she was here regardless.

>>47412728
I'm on your side here. I was here when the big shitstorm took place.

It always seems like there is some guy ready to freak out over "omg there is a gay character in the module" thing. Pazio has never been known for amazing writing, and the rage that comes from here seems to be disproportionate.

>>47412623
>JJ also is behind the errata's to Erastil
Hey, hey, hey, anon, at least get it right.
/tg/ was outright wrong in that situation due to a misunderstanding and jumped to conclusions. You posting screams you heard about it secondhand.

>>47412649
>>47412491
In the Shardra iconic discussion she wrote up an alchemical option that basically amounts to hormone replacement therapy.

>>47412774
desu, most of the rage I've seen here directed at Frasier and Price is about how SHIT their writing is. It's one thing to write gay and trans characters for representation and the like.

It's another to make "they're gay/trans" the ENTIRETY of their characterization, relegating them to cardboard cutout status, then do shit like pulling trans villains because they're too scared to make a complex character.

Then they parade about with tumblr witch hunts and claim to be progressive, when no one asked for their representation, and most of the trans people I've talked to myself included are just tired of their shit.

>>47412794
And why do we care so much? I don't get it.

>>47412774
No one really cares about there being a gay character. That's more of a strawman image which has been made over misinterpretations.

Fuck this is /tg/, we're terribly gay.

>>47412780
I admit, the JJ thing is second hand but the Mark Moreland remark comes from their stream.

>>47412832
There's a surprisingly disproportionate amount of trans people on /pfg/ and in the ttrpg community as a whole. The trans dwarf iconic basically gave them a middle finger by boiling down the entire character to their trans struggle, instead of making them have literally any other traits than "she's a transwoman dwarf".

>>47412609
ME! Our Paladin volunteered us for the gladiator fights, our gunslinger mouthed off to someone else and I accidentally gave someone a seizure. The gladiator fight basically ended up as splitting up into 3 pairs and kicking half-orcs while they were down. Almost literally in my case, since I'm a summoner with a reach/trip weapon and grease. My eidolon has nets too.

>>47412857
Basically this.

There's a shit ton of interesting political and social points you could make with trans-folk, even in a universe where magical body reconstruction exists.

Pathfinder uses none of them.

>>47412774
I like how the magic writers are handling these issues, namely that they aren't doing it to make waves (they are to expand their market via consumers talking about it though) but instead letting everybody else figure it out and just confirming or denying. It's a part of a character not their entire being and WotC doesn't give a shit if they're good or evil. I wish, if paizo insists on doing this, that they'd take a note from WotC and not try to shove it down people's throats by making one dimensional characters around the "issue".

>>47412609
We destroyed the lives of random cultists and got chased by an angry vrock! Yay!

Post more of this

>Well the idea is to set it in the here and now, but draw from multiple sources ranging from Supernatural, the Dresden Files, the Laundry Files, Night's Black Agents to name a few

In view, the players represent a counter-occult/counter-supernatural agency with directives to ensure the brutal put-down of any unsanctioned occult/paranormal/supernatural threat; they are wetworkers, troubleshooters and hazard specialists.
The masses must be kept ignorant

And thus these agents use the very tools that the general public have very little or no idea about; currency in the form of gold pieces exists to ensure the upgradibility of magic items and objects

Combat is meant to be brutal, so I may actually look at FantasyCraft for ideas

The players are supposed to be starting at 1st level, with all 1pp supplements and PoW and psionics available to them

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Might as well through this up since it will appear that time.

>>47412978
It's utterly pointless to sort the iconics into their classes' actual tiers, they're not built even a remotely competent or consistent enough level to make it meaningful.

>>47412826
You shouldn't talk to yourself, it's not healthy.

>>47413043
You know for a second I thought you were accusing me of samefagging

it has been a loooong day

>>47413018
Yeah, there's no way Harsk deserves to be Tier 4

>>47412491
The existing 'sex change potion' is 2250 gold. As an int/wis 10 character with a single skill point into profession or craft and no associated feats you can take 10 on every skill check and make that in something like four or five years... that's also not accounting for craft / profession being considered class skills for commoners. Just a literal take 10 with a +1 bonus so they earn GP instead of sp.

With assigning a human racial stat bonus to your prefered skill modifier and taking the feat that gives you a +3 bonus on your craft/profession skill of choice and accounting for trained class skills, you cut that time in half almost, going from a +1 bonus to a +8 bonus (+1, +1, +3, +3). That's for a *LEVEL ONE* commoner, who should over the period of 2-4 years also gain a level or two for doing their crafting checks continuously.

Not to mention that the potion of gender change is overcosted, as a simple spell of gender change turned into a potion would only cost about 500 gold. So in truth even a basically fucking retarded commoner would be able to accomplish this shit in at most a year or two.

Also, people identifying with the 'struggle' are fucking MENTALLY ILL. Trans people just want to be identified as their end gender.

It's a fantasy world that doesn't need shitty gender politics.

>>47413018
Harsk uses a fucking crossbow.

>>47412978
Wizard is tier 1, but Ezren is not tier 1. I've seen that stupid fuck appear as an example character with 100% do-nothing spells for an undead dungeon module.

And Merisiel specifically went for the weakest possible fighting style, split her feats between it and something else anyway, and is the weakest class, so she's straight WORSE than any random NPC of equal level from Tier 6 who picks up a normal weapon. Merisiel is Tier SEVEN.

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>>47413082
BUT I NEED TO SELL MY DEMON-SLAYING SWORD IN THE WORLDWOUND TO GET THE POTION NOOOOWWWWW

>>47412609
>Friday
GM'd Iron Gods, currently on book 3. A player's new character got introduced, a summoner with an eidolon specifically made to fuck up robots. He was then unprepared for the ghost wizard that gave him con drain on the first round of combat, nearly killing him.
>Saturday
Most notable thing that happened was the GM made us fight a third party monster that was way stronger than the Paizo version, yet was on the same CR.
>Sunday
We fought some spider dude with an opium addiction in Jade Regent, then looted the shit out of the dungeon he's in.

>>47413156
Anon, please, if you are gonna shitpost, at least get it right, fuck.

>>47413082
This is also using STANDARD profession rules. where just with the take 10 result of 14, you'd be getting 7 GP a week. Not unchained, or alternate profession rules, which both allow you to earn significantly more.

It also allows for some dickering with local churches to reduce costs and the like.

>>47413156

Irabeth's sword is NOT Radiance.

So /pfg/, what's an optional ruleset or subsytem you like? I'm a big fan of Words of Power myself.

Outside of Dreamscarred Press, DDS, and Radiance House, what third party is worth using?

>>47413156
Who the fuck is this? I can see the name but who IS she?

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>>47413659
Path of War

>>47413678
Try the Genius Guides to Variant Multiclassing or Multiclass Feats.

>>47413731
Why is George Lucas giving Star Wars to Japan now?

>>47413720

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that she's a half-orc paladin from Wrath of the Righteous, who sold her sword to buy a potion to make her boyfriend into her girlfriend.

>>47413720
>http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Irabeth_Tirabade

>>47412150
It also has literal time travel now.

>>47412150
Game of Thrones?

>>47413769
Kirito is basically a jedi in the gungale online section of the show. Personally I kind of enjoyed it.

In the "gun" mmo, he was like "nah, I'm going to use a sword I'm just that fucking badass". which fits, because in the actual SAO arc, while the anime never really establishes it, kirito has the fastest reflexes of anyone playing the game, which is why he got the dual wielding skill

>>47412150
I thought it was a really boring AFMBE campaign.

>>47413769
Because he realized they can't treat it worse than Disney.

>>47413879
It was cheesy as hell and kind of dumb.

But my god was it well animated, even if the movements are bullshit.

Anyone have Cerulean Seas: Waves of Thought? Saw it awhile ago on the site 4 chans up but the link is dead and it's not in the trove. If it were posted in that thread it surely is in the QA trove.

>>47413923
Actually, y'know. I found that they spent quite a bit of time exploring relatively mature and complex themes in SAO without browbeating you with them.

There were parts where they had relatively immature characters trying to reconcile and rationalize very very complex stuff like mortality and death, or shit like romance. Or even just simple stuff like how it's important to try and take the time to enjoy yourself and find beauty in things - even if you're experiencing a literal shithole. Though that was more first season.

They didn't sit down and go "WE ARE HAVING A PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION NOW, AND THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD FEEL ABOUT IT", they just explored shit and had characters more or less come to their own conclusions and that was okay.

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>>47413795
I don't think gay sex is paladiny.
Is gay sex paladiny?

>>47414002
Should I give it another try then? I sorta lost interest when they got married and adopted a program.

>>47414044
>immunity to diseases
>healing on-demand

Paladins are kinky SoBs, anon.

>>47414044
Either no sex is paladiny, or all of it is. Except rape. That's antipaladin stuff.

>>47414044
Well, I suppose you'd have to ask if striking from behind is dishonorable enough to warrant a breach in their code.

>>47414002
But his sister's tits tho

>>47414044
Doesn't violate any of their codes.

Paladins are required to be Lawful and Good. If it doesn't violate Law (and it doesn't) or Good (which it also doesn't), it's fine.

Love is the highest Good.

>>47414002
Exploring complex themes without browbeating you does not mean they're handling them well, or that the characters are even well written enough to properly function. It is explored kind of subtly, but it's still explored poorly.

>>47414056
Watch it for the pretty visuals, and then ignore everything else. The second arc is literally an incestuous love triangle mixed with "HEY LOOK AT HOW WE FUCKED OVER THE FEMALE LEAD AND UNDID EVERYTHING REMOTELY INTERESTING ABOUT HER! KIRITO IS JESUS GUYS!"

>>47413470
No, but it is still a +1 Evil Outsider Bane Cold Iron Longsword

What class would be best for an ersatz Trump who wants to MAKE ANDORAN GREAT AGAIN?

I'm thinking he'll be a tiefling so he can have orange skin.

>>47414056
Well, that was part of what I was talking about - that was them exploring a very complex theme like 'choosing who to be with' and 'what exactly does love / making a life with each other entail'.

It's something that you really have to watch for if you're going to notice it at all. Ultimately I'd say I found the series to be mostly positive, but I can understand if that stuff would be a dealbreaker for you, especially the really rape-y parts of season one.

tl,dr; up to you. I enjoyed the show and I'm considering a rewatch, but I wouldn't put it on my list of best anime ever. It also does end up harem-y.

>>47414093
I don't necessarily agree with you, They certainly flopped on their characters a bit, especially in the second season, but I don't think they really did a terrible job of exploring said themes. To each their own though. I've encountered some people that irrationally love SAO, and some that irrationally hate it.

I personally really enjoyed how they tried to handle rehabilitating the people that survived SAO, with the realization that they have something like 15000 fucked up youths, who spent several years trapped in a highly lethal game, with not much education happening.

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>>47414140
Cleric of Abadar.

>>47411972
>Lord of the Rings
>Game of Thrones
>Star Wars
>Harry Potter

>>47414093
>>47414184
For whom it was written by - a 14 year old with minimal experience with actually playing MMOs - it was decent. For a big budget work that it turned into, it was kinda shit.

Tell me about a character you're building, /pfg/!

>>47414184
>SAO

I would hate that series less if the author actually knew anything about MMOs instead of just being a shitty Ragnarok Online soloer.

I mean, compare to Log Horizon where how the game works at least vaguely resembles actual MMOs.

>>47414194
Nah, not Abadar, some kind of Qlippoth Lord. Treat Demons like the Mexicans/Muslims/votewinners.

>>47414320
A halfling filcher hidden blade unchained rogue who plans to steal everything all the time.

>>47414320
Ethumion avant guard kineticist (starting with aether). Not totally sure what to do with it and I'm trying to plot out feats and talent selection out to 20 as well as come up with a name (preferably one that can be reduced to Jojo) and an image to use for them.

>>47414361
But what's the demon equivalent of taco bowls?

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>>47414320
She's a Gelatinous Cube with the form figure feat in order to transform herself into a human form. She's spawned from the detritus of an alchemist's guild, and considers the guild leader to her father, though he doesn't see it that way.

Upon showing herself to him, he committed experiments on her, until he grew tired of her and sold her to a noble as a curiosity. She managed to escape during the transfer and is now on the run.

Still deciding what class to go with for her once the Gelatinous Cube levels are done. Alchemist is the most thematic at the moment, so I'll probably go with that.

>>47414320
I'm not 100% on the classes, but I think Stalker/Fighter that uses cleave to dirty trick an entire room simultaneously. I've just about finished the build, I just need to cut some of the fat.

I also finished a Kineticist/Fighter/Chained Monk, that one's a ball of fun.

>>47414433
Take Craft Ooze.

>>47414433
Make sure to get some djezet skin armor so she can hug people without meltig them.

>>47414412
Souls?

>>47414495
>that one's a ball

It's sure not going to do much more than one.

>>47414320
Zwei Sent Warder/Daring Hero

Using Fool's Errand and a polearm to create a zone of nope around my character.

The actual character is a sweetness-and-light little history nerd who just happens to be obsessed with the history of great battles and heroic adventurers. She's also got a mischievous streak when she's not skewering folks using the ancient dragonslaying techniques passed down in her family. And sometimes even when she is (gotta get that Razor Wit damage)

>>47414547
>It's sure not going to do much more than one.
Bitches don't know about my Katamari build.

>>47411972
Millennials are in their 30s, bro

>>47414320
You're gonna get a lot of shitty fetish characters.

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>>47414361
>http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Qlippoth_lord

None of them have Trade or Protection as a domain, but Abadar does.

Or, we can make him a Warlord / Oracle (Metal mystery, Legalistic curse) / Battle Templar.

This way, everything depends on his charisma.

>>47412300
/tg/ overblows the actual post.

>>47414527
Actually, the G.Cube monster class can choose not to secrete its acid and paralytic venom.

Nifty, huh?

I keep joining games out of pfg and tg. They're all so fucking garbage. Dear lord.

>>47414396
Seriously though, please help. I'm not quite sure what to do with it.

>>47414618
A tiefling sacred servant paladin of Arshea with a side job of being a very classy and extremely expensive courtesan.

>>47414651
I joined a game from pfg that's going extremely well aside from being down a player at the moment.

Having a grand old time. My character was charmingly, if haltingly, proposed to by an Orcish mob enforcer.

Unfortunately his associate appears to be planning to feed us to harpies or something. It's not quite clear, none of us are very good at Orcish.

Hey /pfg/ what are the most useful languages to know aside from common?

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Don't hide it from me, /pfg/.

Tell me about how you get out of a funk where you don't really have the energy to find a game.

>>47414828
I play vidyas that gives me inspiration for character concepts I want to try.

That, or I go back to writing my square-one homebrew setting

>>47412712
It died the death.

>>47414433
Form figure feat? I'm intrigued now.
Where can I find this feat? And the race while we're at it

>>47414320
Nothing. I'm a forever GM given the option to jump into a game at level 10, and the option paralysis is crippling. I want to build something absurd that takes all of my rules expertise and ends up phenomenally average, though. No 3pp allowed, unfortunately.

>>47414962
DSP book called April Unleashed, it's a free download

>>47414928
Harbinger question:
As a swift action, the harbinger may Claim an opponent that she can see (including with special senses such as blindsense or tremorsense)

Does this include other nonspecial senses?
Would physical contact with a creature in darkness that you can't see work?

>>47414962
One of the DSP books, April Unleashed. It's free on their site, and includes a bunch of fun stuff, including:

>The Ambu-lancer Medic
>The Edge Lord Harbinger
>The Madman Monk
>Daring Hero PrC
>Drowmedary Race
>Gelatinous Cube Monster Class and racial feats.

>>47415011
April Augmented. But yeah, this. Your playable Ooze can assume the form of a medium humanoid.

>>47415017
Where is the original medic from?

>>47415014
RAW probably not, RAI sure as long as you know they're there. You can't Claim with a guess.

>>47415032
It's a new playtest class they're working on, there's a thread for it on GitP

I was sort of hoping the Ambu-Lancer would be a Steamflogger Boss for at least a little while and just be an archetype belonging to a non-existant class, but Medic's okay.

>>47414962
>April Augmented
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tkh3?Dreamscarred-Press-Announces-April-Augmented#1

How to Vizier?

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>>47414320
I have too many characters I'm trying to build at once, but... I recently revisited the Agathian Aasimar Synthesist Summoner that I set aside for just in case I ever played Reign of Winter. A noodly-armed but thick-skinned awoo, who transforms into an agathian wolf so he can be stronk and fight for his friends. I might even see about trying to throw a sword into the mix somehow, either by mouthwielding, or refluffing an arms evolution to be a "tk field" for aesthetics sake.

>new guy joins party, sees a skinny asshole lugging around a sword as big as he is
>wonders what the fuck the deal with this noodle-armed loser is and why everyone keeps him around
>morning comes and the guy wakes up, looks over to see a huge wolf carrying an equally huge sword

YES I KNOW IT'S DUMB, BUT IT'S STILL COOL OKAY.

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>>47415163

As someone whose own aspirations of playing a synthesist have been blocked by a PFS-legal-only GM, I hope you get the chance to live that awesome and silly dream.

Best house rules you actually used in your table?
I'm going to DM soon and I want to research on some potentially interesting house rules.

Thanks in advance.

>>47414247
It was published when he was much older.

Also, two years of semen makes a glopping noise.

>>47414754
Draconian, Sylvan depending.

>>47415313
Depending on what?

>>47415243
>PFS-legal only GM

Run free, anon. Escape the bonds of agony and find a decent game online.

>>47414754
I recommend taking sign language, and teaching it to your party. Good for quiet approaches, as long as you can see each other.

>>47415325
>decent game
>online

>>47415334
We'll have a zealot so in party telepathy covers that.

>>47415324
Where the campaign goes. It'll be useless if you're in the Underdark, for example. In that case you'd take Undercommon.

>>47415336
All of the games I've played online have been decent, and only one died before anything got done.

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>>47414320
An elusive wildling beguiler with a stygian prowler pet based on pic related. Still hoping Ertw will release the eidolon-based archetype he's been working on before I finalize the character so I can decide which of the two is a better fit for her.

>>47415354
It's a custom setting in a labyrinth so I just need generally good languages.

>>47415243
Just drop pfs legal broken as shit things til he goes crazy, kicks you out, and/or figures out pfs is fucking retarded.

What's DSP working on now? Any new classes or archetypes?

>>47415372
>It's a custom setting in a labyrinth so I just need generally good languages.
Take Giant

>>47415390
Not the Path of War errata, I bet :^)

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>>47415243
>PFS-legal-only GM
Fuck that guy and everything he stands for.

As for the synthesist, it's a possibility I might get to play him. It depends how a 1-on-1 RotRL campaign reboot goes, though. Gonna at least try to finish the first book before deciding if we wanted to continue with RotRL, go on to Jade Regent, or try something else. GM has been itching to try all kinds of things, and I have a folder of characters that's bursting at the seams.

>mfw have a GM open to homebrew, and is at least tentatively willing to dip his toes into 3pp, even if the PoW plunge is still a bit too wild for him.

>captcha asks me to type in a number
>it's a picture of a blank wall

???

>>47415459
Tfw my DM bans core and only allows archetypes for core in 3pp like PoW and SoP.

I wonder what traumatised him so.

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>>47415017
>Edge Lord Harbinger
>This icy, affected indifference gives them insight into the use of curses, teleportation, and the supremely sharp katana.
>Become So Numb
>Nothing Personal
My sides. Who was the poor sap who had to do this, because I know I'd be on the floor laughing for at least a week. I refuse to believe this wasn't intentional.

What is the best way to build Skinshaper Druid?

>>47414320
Aasimar
Cleric (Hidden Priest) of Folca
Charm (Lust) replacing Dazing Touch for Hidden Priest's False Arcanist
Trickery (Deception) replacing Master's Illusion for Unseen Devotion
Halo alternate racial feature
Innocent (Aasimar) and Affable (Basic - Social) traits
Skill Focus (Bluff), Mask of Virtue and Maleficium

>Work as child protective services
>arrange adoptions to "appropriate" families
>remove children from "inappropriate" families
>run the orphanages
>sate the needs of degenerate nobles/aristocrats/merchants/lawmakers/etc.

Entire time pretending to be a bookish follower of Sarenrae

>>47415503

You do realize that it's literally an April Fools release, right? It's a joke on the harbinger being so edgy.

>Guy playing Harbinger
>Unorthodox Study trait to get silver crane
>Claims that his character is based off the antithesis of strong negative feelings, which means he derives power from hope and honour
Should I call him out for shit?

>>47415503
You'll notice that Gareth himself designed the archetype, Bismuth Trenchcoat and all. Also the fact that Forrest created the Daring Hero, thus allowing for a CHAbinger unironically.

>>47415503
You can thank Gareth for this one. See "Jade Ripley" under the name Edge Lord? That's Gareth's real name.

>>47415459
I have a GM who refuses to let me do anything more than core and advanced and makes a bunch of overpowered houserule spells for wizards, meanwhile I'm a barbarian getting my ass kicked all the time.

>>47415390
I am certain they are currently trying to expand the labyrinth that is discipline+maneuver selection.

>>47415500
I do that somewhat but mostly in the sense that, like

I don't want you showing up with unaltered Chained Monk in a DSP-allowed game.

You're not gonna have a great time. If you can build a solid T4 that you feel you'll enjoy in a universe where maneuvers are a fact of life, I'll let you ride that train, but I don't need Bog Standard Fighter struggling to keep up.

>>47415528
Why would you? That's a pretty fun refluff.

Give them a little glowy mote, statted after an ioun torch, since they're like a harbingery Knight-Chandler

They don't control it. It just follows them around no matter what.

So I've made a few wizard/magaambyan arcanist/pathfinder savant builds that take advantage of Lasting goodness(Good spells last longer) and access to a 3rd level spell Swift Action Litany of Righteouess(double damage against evil guys). Basically a full on admixture evoker with a good amount of druid and Paladin spells.

Then came the Magaambyan Initiate Arcanist archetype but I'm not sure if it's any better than going into the PrC via Wizard.

What scenario opens up another race for you to play on its chronicle sheet?

>>47415588
Hilariously in our previous campaign, under a different DM, of course, the archer fighter was constantly pumping out more for than the 3 other initiators.

But then again I remember the Initiator plays (including me, the warlord) having much more fun while the fighter was mostly on his phone reading fb or something.

>>47415528
That's a totally reasonable way to build a Harbinger?

A Harbinger is someone who's *experienced* and *understands* negative feelings, not someone who's powered by them. They can be edgy, but they can also be Mister Rogers.

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>>47411972
To be fair, there are a lot of good swords and sorcery anime to get inspiration for a campaign or a character concept from.

Maou Maoyuu Yuusha
Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon
Arslan Senki
Overlord
etc. etc.

>>47415528
>Claims that his character is based off the antithesis of strong negative feelings, which means he derives power from hope and honour

You do realize Batman would fit as a Harbinger, right? He wallows in angst but radiates hope and justice.

Are the PoW 2/3 Initiator archetypes good or just a waste of time?

>>47415740
I think they're more fun to play than the full initiators tbqh

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>>47415528
>caring about class fluff

Does anyone seriously do this?

>>47415745
Hmmm, might be. Any good ones beyond Rubato? The tempo thing intimidates me.

>>47412978
Why bother? It's still lists Valeros as female. It's trash that ain't fact-checked.

>>47415755
Hidden Blade Unchained Rogue is everything I want out of an initiator including the ability to become a gish. Knight-Disciple Paladin isn't really a paladin but is a great tanky initiator. Primal Disciple has All Day Rage. Rubato is amazing. Ambush Hunter is ehhh but it's a strong pet class with an initiating pet.

>>47415755
Hidden Blade is a really good Rogue.

Knight Disciple is good, but is a VERY HEAVILY variant Paladin.

I personally like Monk of the Silver Fist a whole lot, but YMMV

>>47415778
>>47415791
Is hidden blade for chained or unchained rogue then? Color me interested.

>>47415601
Captive In Crystal

>>47415805
Unchained Rogue is explicitly compatible with all archetypes for the base rogue, unlike Unchained Monk.

Unhidden Blade is perfectly kosher and awesome.

>>47415815
Oh I didn't know that chained rogue archetypes work for unchained. What are the exact rules?

I'm actually interested in a blade boot unchained hidden blade now. Anything else I should know about the archetype?

>>47415836
The major change in class features is "Danger Sense" replacing Trap Sense, and it has a clause that states it acts as Trap Sense for the purpose of being replaced in archetypes and feats/etc that require it.

>give players choice between dying and saving innocents & escaping and letting them die
>they choose to survive
>have mother of boy who die shout at them in the street and break down crying that they didn't save her son
Felt good.

How would you stat out something like a mp3 player?

>>47412978
So, so much of that table is wrong. It makes me cringe to see it shared so often.

>>47415836
>blade boot
Tis a shame they're not proficient with it

>>47415996
Yeah, half the information is actually just incorrect. Fuck have the character's sexes are listed incorrectly.

>>47415991
warforged bard 20

>>47415942
Why are townsfolk always so ungrateful the moment collateral damage happens?

You lose one loved one, and suddenly the heroes are monsters for... doing their absolute best to save you and everyone ELSE you love?

>>47416044
Tis a shame it only plays Techno.

>>47416051
Because people aren't rational. She lost her only son, she is grieving. Other towns folk are fine, but she isn't.

>>47416051
Tfw something similar happened in my game but the kid whose parent we didn't save became obsessed with us, the 'heroes', and started stalking us.

>>47415503
It was meeeeee.

>>47415528
It's valid. "But not today," is a valid response to, "All are doomed to sorrow."

>>47416051
Because people are selfish, and loved ones are important?

>>47416183
Gareth! How are you my man?
Where's my brawler Initiator archetype?

>>47416232

You can't use Steelfist Commando?

> People who want to get rid of spellcasting on Ranger and Paladin

Why don't they just play fighter or slayer..?

>>47416232
In hell, where it belongs

But in all seriousness, a member of the team has one on the back burner. Not a high priority at the moment though.

>>47412978
> Rahadoum
> Nethys
wait...? Is that even possible?

>>47413101
It's sorted by class. Otherwise Harsk will be tier 6.

>>47416183
Sorrow may be your birthright, but you don't inherit your birthright until its current owner dies. Invest your heart in someone, keep it secret, keep it safe.

VUR HA, SONS OF THE BATTLE CRY! PROTECT THE SMILE!

>>47416299
That's why she doesn't go back, anon. If they knew, they'd kill her.

What's worse is that the city-states in that area used to LOVE Nethys. And then Sarenrae happened, and BAM! 300 years of Oath War.

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>>47416183
Hey Gareth, ever considered making a Fae based Initiator Discipline?

>>47416351
Would it be bluff based?

>>47414320
A gestalt character for my Council of Thieves game. Thinking urban ranger/urban bloodrager.

>>47416351
Isn't that just Veiled Moon and Shattered Mirror? Maybe Cursed Razor and Eternal Guardian?

>>47416351
Please let initiator disciplines stand as broad concepts that stuff like this can easily be represented inside, there's too much bloat already.

>>47416351
Bluff-Based
Probably revolving on spell-like powers faes possesses in myths such as shrinking their size while retaining their strength, creating illusory copies of themselves, messing with people's perceptions of perspective (far is near, near is far, big is small, small is big etc.)

>>47416436
Homebrew it! Always love seeing neat homebrew :3

>>47416405
As well as Riven Hourglass

>>47416351
Considered and discarded. It doesn't need to happen, for all the same reasons - and one or two more - that Grave shouldn't have.

>>47416499
Why shouldn't Grave have happened?

>>47416524
Lemme answer this when I get home.

>>47416558
Hey man, grave is a neat idea, I just hope it gets fixed at some point.

>>47416499
So Gareth, has DSP toyed around with the idea of making an entirely new standalone system?

>>47416575
Don't push it. I'm sure there's a good reason.

>>47416590
Yes, they have. No, it's not related to their current IP. No, they won't tell us more. Yes, I'm looking forward to it.

>>47416558
Thanks, you've been awesome today with this and helping out with the kineticist earlier. Still haven't finished the build but now that there's the feat It's awesome at level 1 especially since most of the party loves Jojo.

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One thing I wanted to see in DSP is a "monk cranked up to 11"

I'm not talking about a regular kung-fu expert who knows how to throw a punch.

I'm talking a master of the flow of chi and the art of gentle palm kung fu.

The guy who can gracefully sway his arms and redirect spells thrown at him

The guy who can gently touch a man, but disrupt his natural flow of chi, causing him painful seizures

The guy who can compress chi into a force or a wave of power

The guy who can harness chi into his body and enter a state of absolute nirvana, immune to most forms of damage, both physical or mental

The guy who can open the floodgates of his own chakras and move with speed and power way beyond mortal limits

The guy who can separate bad chi from good chi, allowing him to heal others, sever undead from the mortal coil, poison a living creature with a foul miasma of chi or revive a man who had just recently fallen in battle

Or is that too OP even for DSP?

>>47416717
Any initiating class that can punch shit with Riven Hourglass and Silver Crane. Refluff both as Chi bullshit.

>>47416717
That's literally an aurora soul mystic. Take Fool's Errand and Shattered Mirror and dip into Silver Crane and Sleeping Goddess.

>>47416717
Its incredibly possible to make a character out of that with DSP's content.

The problem is that what you're asking is spread out between several PoW disciplines, there's not a single one that offers everything you want.

>>47416741
Good thing classes get more than one, and can use feats to get even more.

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>>47416717
In short, you want this guy.

>>47416785
>tmw there's now a discipline with Street Fighter moves in it

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>>47416785
>No Crimson Viper Initiator Dsicpline

>>47416825
>Elemental Flux

>>47416825
Refluffed E.Flux

Since Cestus modifies your unarmed damage, attacks with it are still "unarmed attacks" for purposes of delivering touch attacks, right?

>>47416939
Nope. Conducting weapon - Which Paizo gutted and maimed.

>>47416558
So we have the initiation discipline based on using 'grasp/grab' to throw shit, can we have an initiation discipline based on using grasp/grab to choke the fuck out of people?

What AP lets the party become the biggest heroes in all the land?

>>47416939
Nope. An attack with a cestus is an attack with a weapon. It ALSO modifies your unarmed strike, but that's just an effect of wielding it. You don't get the cestus' enhancement bonus on your unarmed strikes either.

>>47416964
Why would you need a discipline for that? That's just attacking them while they're grabbed.

>>47416990
Wrath of the Righteous.

>>47416994
>Why would you need a discipline for that? That's just attacking them while they're grabbed.

It's actually very different. What we've currently got is like using judo for throws, What I'd like to see is the variety of nifty chokes, joint locks and pressure holds that stuff like judo has.

>>47417038
So why would you need a DISCIPLINE for that? The discipline has plenty of stuff that makes people go down. You grasp them and then full attack them (potentially nonlethally).

Discipline bloat needs to stop.

>>47416990
Iron Gods

You kill a god and liberate a kingdom, it's pretty fun.

>>47417055
I have been saying for a while there is very obvious discipline bloat. The limited design space disciplines occupy means they're already stepping on each other's toes creating near identical effects cross discipline. This is causing the seemingly unintended consequence of allow individuals to have multiple maneuvers that do near identical things and allow the initiator to ready multiple same purpose maneuvers. This breaks part of the design philosophy early PoW seemed to follow (badly).

Honestly with PoW:E the quality of PoW has gone from bad to worse. They're dropping to near Paizo levels of shit.

>>47416994
>Nope. An attack with a cestus is an attack with a weapon. It ALSO modifies your unarmed strike, but that's just an effect of wielding it. You don't get the cestus' enhancement bonus on your unarmed strikes either.

I meant in terms of delivering a touch spell (ex shocking grasp), which you can deliver through an unarmed strike. So you can still deliver it through an unarmed strike that's been modified by a Cestus, yeah?

Also, why wouldn't you get the enhancement bonus (/ special abilities)?

>>47417055
>>47416994
I get that you're not really on board with the idea, but choke and pain holds are very different from "GRAPPLE AND FULL ATTACK - FEED THAT FUCKER THE KNEES / KNIVES". They are meant to control, exhaust and render unconcious.

In particular you could have pain holds that sicken and nauseate (or apply temporary stat debuffs) or you could have choke holds that fatigue and exhaust. Maybe some could function like poisons (in that you make them start taking saves or losing stats).

It's not about direct damage (though that *could* be a component) it's about stopping their ability to function as a living being.

So I opened up the Alteration handbook and noticed a hell of a lot of changes. Let's go leave "helpful" "feedback", guys.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dUvSqJPOjCoXei1lean_sAjw2NmWonAEm47VQVSKfVo/edit

>>47417078
>Honestly with PoW:E the quality of PoW has gone from bad to worse.

Kinda, yeah. I'd rather that PoW 1 just didn't exist at all, PoW E is better.

>They're dropping to near Paizo levels of shit.
Can't agree there.

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>>47417108
If you're gonna troll them you're just proving them right.

>>47417119
You can't be serious. You think the PoW:E classes are better designed than PoW.

May I indicate the entirety of the Zealot class.

Honestly Harbingers are the only ones I like, and even then they have some shit wrong with them (I'm looking at you Raven Lord).

>>47417139
Oh nooo. Noot thaaaat.

>>47417143
I like the zealot. I do think that the maneuver granting mechanism for the mystic could be better, the crusader was a shit class because of it.

>>47417119
>I'd rather that PoW 1 just didn't exist at all, PoW E is better.
Now your a special kind of retard, if you seriously think that.

>>47417108
How about we not be jerks instead? Just leave actual helpful feedback, it can't hurt the chances of those changes being made.

>>47417143
Zealot's far better designed than Warlord and Stalker. Warlord's basically two martials gestalted together and the Stalker's a fucking mess.

Zealot STARTED horrible but they managed to trim it down into a really neat striker off-tank/support class. The "stand still and move-recover" playstyle is unique among initiators and it's fun to play.

Harbingers are very tightly-designed. Mystics have the same problem the warlord does of doing way too damn much. But even the mystic is still better than the Warlord.

>>47417178
Oh no, someone has a difference of opinions. They must be dumb because they don't agree with me!

>>47417178
PoW 1 has several disciplines that are literally nonfunctional if you want a balanced game, two classes that are shit design, and some of the worst wording and typos I've ever seen in a ttrpg book.

So yeah. I like PoW E better.

PoW E also has the benefit of its disciplines not being a bunch of rehashes of "hit the guy." I LIKE my weaboo fightan magick.

>>47417181
And they all pale in comparison to Glorious Warder Masterclass in terms of balance.

>>47417180
This, why not work to make the game better. I mean if we get good third party stuff because of our input then isn't that a good thing? Do we actually want to make third party shit bad enough that we have to just use paizo shit?

>>47417197
>PoW 1 has several disciplines that are literally nonfunctional if you want a balanced game
People really exaggerate about how terrible Broken Blade and Primal Fury are. I don't know where people get this shit. Primal Fury got a little iffy, but I have never seen people cause problems with Broken Blade.

>>47417223
Broken Blade's got a level 1 strike that's literally just "hit them twice with your sword."

I've seen Primal Fury, Black Seraph, and Thrashing Dragon break more games, though.

>>47417202
Warder and release Zealot are, imo, the best PoW classes. Followed by Rubato Bard and Augmented Blade War Soul.

>>47417181
>Zealot STARTED horrible but they managed to trim it down into a really neat striker off-tank/support class. The "stand still and move-recover" playstyle is unique among initiators and it's fun to play.
The stand still and move-recover is far too strong. Recovery mechanics are meant to enforce some tightening on the action economy, either your swift/immediate or standard actions. With the move action one can use the same counter every turn, and with the Zealot you can use that through anyone in your party.

They're better buffers than bards, better healers than clerics, better supports than anyone else. Creation Zealots & Destruction Zealots outpace their equivalents by a mile.

At literally every level a Destruction Zealot can give a larger bonus than a bard. This is a problem.

Martyrdom & Creation Zealot's healing combined make one leaps and bounds better as the second best defensive damage mitigation build.

This all is not instead of being a highly effective combat character, but IN ADDITION too because it either takes free actions (for martyr & creation healing) or moves (for your zeal). One can still use counters and strikes and allow other party members to use them/simply use them through the party members.

Zealots step out among support characters while not sacrificing offensive ability.

>>47417232
And Two weapon fighting does the same thing
>Broken Blade's got a level 1 strike that's literally just "hit them twice with your sword."

Good thing it encourages you to be unarmed, literally all the problems I hear about Broken Blade involve people shitting on the discipline by two handing a great-sword with it or some dumb shit like that. It's a flaw, but it's easy to house rule out.

>>47417223
Black Seraph breaks the game harder because how easily intimidate is optimized.

>>47417263
Just because something can be fixed with a house rule doesn't mean that it's not an issue.

>>47417253
>better buffers than bards
PF bards suck
>better healers than clerics
combat healing is terrible unless you're a vitalist or incanter
>better supports than anyone else
can't argue there

I wish they were like... Half-BAB. That'd make them a lot cooler as supports.

>Recovery mechanics are meant to enforce some tightening on the action economy, either your swift/immediate or standard actions

nooo, recovery mechanics are meant to have SOME sort of cost to keeping doing the same moves. Which "standing still" definitely is.

>>47417263
Something being house rule-able doesn't make it not broken. If that were true half of pathfinder would be blameless.

>>47417263
Two-weapon fighting doesn't do it with 1.5 Str and no penalty, while moving.

>>47417284
I know, and it definitely does deserve some marks off for that but it's a small fucking fix and if you're using 3pp you're most likely not above house rules.

>>47417301
>PF bards suck
So you should just have a character that is better than them in every way? How does that make Zealots tier 3 then?

>combat healing is terrible unless you're a vitalist or incanter
You've clearly never played with a creation zealot then. They are extremely efficient in keeping characters alive. They keep characters alive even after they die long enough to bring them back. This is extremely strong for those cases someone gets rocket tagged down. Martyrdom can mitigate most damage and for any zealot with high wisdom they don't have to worry about their PP budget.

>nooo, recovery mechanics are meant to have SOME sort of cost to keeping doing the same moves. Which "standing still" definitely is.
Standing still means essentially nothing to disciplines that have swift action movement (shattered mirror for instance lets you dimension door as a swift action) or strikers with ranged options (which a zealot can easily get with martial traditions).

Standing still is not a large issue because of the movement abilities disciplines hand out.

>>47417349
The real question is what can a bard contribute that a zealot can not? The answer is spells, however bards have a very limited list of spells known. Their versatility in regards to spells is relatively low in comparison to 9 level casters and prepared casters.

Zealots are full initiators in addition to their class features and their class features make them better than bards.

>>47417349
>So you should just have a character that is better than them in every way?
It works for the Fighter/Warder, doesn't it?

>>47417371
Bards do have a decent amount of save or loses, and glibness, iirc.

>>47417349
>How does that make Zealots tier 3 then?
Tier 3, yes. Overpowered, maybe. You don't hit Tier 2 unless you have the capability of breaking the campaign setting over your knee.

>>47416717
This god awful shop of Xration's art is a crime against God and man alike.

>>47417371
>The answer is spells, however bards have a very limited list of spells known. Their versatility in regards to spells is relatively low in comparison to 9 level casters and prepared casters.

You guys seem to forget Bards have a really large array of class skills along with the skill points to distribute them in, as well as bonuses thanks to versatile performance and bardic knowledge.

Try looking at things from more than one angle other than combat.

>>47417377
Well that' because O.G. Path of War was more or less meant to replace Fighter, Rogue, and to a much lesser extent Monk.

>>47417413
Pft, skills are overrated

>>47417389
>Bards do have a decent amount of save or loses, and glibness, iirc.
There are plenty of save or suck as maneuvers, cursed razor is rife with them. Glibness I will admit is a larger issue and glibness as a spell should not exist at all.

>Tier 3, yes. Overpowered, maybe. You don't hit Tier 2 unless you have the capability of breaking the campaign setting over your knee.
Untrue as it is not the description of tier 2.

>>47417377
Not when the bard is on the high end of the band PoW attempts to balance for. They have stated 3-4 is where they balance their content (or at least attempt to).

Honestly fighters being that weak is an issue, but in that case I believe it should be fighters being buffed not warders becoming weaker.

>>47417427
Sounds like you just have an unimaginative DM who regularly throws you guys in a monster blender and call it a night.

>>47417430

>Tier 2: Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 classes, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks, and while the class itself is capable of anything, no one build can actually do nearly as much as the Tier 1 classes. Still potentially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 classes are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and easily world shattering, but not in quite so many ways. Note that the Tier 2 classes are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility.

>>47417430
Bard in Pathfinder... Really isn't good. People call it tier 3 but it's VERY low tier 3. It lost all of its best toys from 3.5 that made it good, and can BARELY play the support role.

All it really has is spells.

>>47417413
Zealots have zeal with is a large floating bonus to skills and have the ability to aid another themselves. Zealots are certainly not behind when it comes to skills.

Bards do have versatile performance, but that merely puts two semi-useful skills into one non-useful skill. It is not a good point to draw things together from. Bardic knowledge as well is a bonus but I do not believe it brings it in line as OOC class features have always lagged behind.

This conversation is why I use the 6-level initiators and PoW E's disciplines, then ignore the full initiator classes.

PoW works fine if you have to spend feats at higher levels to get the strongest maneuvers and have more balanced classes to start with.

Maybe harbinger can stay.

>>47417451
I am incorrect then. Then they are simply overpowered compared to other tier 3 classes but do not breech into tier 2 because of the relative small variety of things maneuvers can do.

>>47417460
They are also better than inquisitors at being inquisitors for the most part, and magus for that matter. They stand out ahead of the more combat theme'd tier three classes in combat potential and outclass the combat support class at its job. They can do this AT THE SAME TIME in fact.

>>47411184
Either play an Archetype like Synthesist, or build for your Eidolon to do fuckhueg amounts of damage, take Skilled as an evolution and stick it on one or more skills you want your Eidolon to focus on (I like acrobatics for moving around the battlefield and Stealth for, well... +8 to stealth.) Take the size increase and/or wings when applicable.
Shift points around as you level up to suit your needs for that level.

But experiment and have fun. Find what works for you. Then when you find what you like, buff it with some of the few spells you get that allow you to do so, and then you play support for a one-person army.

Also-Also, If your eidolon is out you can use the SUMMON MONSTER SPELLS, but not the summon monster class ability. So you have your permanent eidolon, and then 1round/level summons to act as fodder and battlefield management.

>>47417526
I just wish that there was an archetype that takes away summon monster class ability.

>>47417571
Counter-summoner. That being said, it's probably more of an NPC class. But it is exactly what you asked for.

>>47417571
I do as well. To be fair, summoner is already a very strong class. While it is still eclipsed by tier 1 classes like Wizard, Druid and the primary spellcasters, it fills a particular niche in a way that I believe surpasses those classes when they attempt to do so.

I won't lie that I have played summoner more often than not, as well as the many archetypes. It's a fuck as fuck class for someone who likes to micromanage, and can do so quickly as to not deviate from the flow of battle too much.

>>47417108
Yes, changes have been happening. Thats what the doc is for. To improve it. What do you intend to accomplish by being detrimental to its quality? We already have plenty of shit 3pp, theres nothing to ber served by malice.

>>47417593
I remember by first table. We had a summoner that spent all his turns summoning 1d3+1 dogs. At level 5. And he takes 30 seconds to move each dog. It was horrible.

>>47417616
Yeah. I advise some people against summoner for the reason that you HAVE to be prepared to think ahead, act quick, and be ready to change on a dime. Even the base summoner excels at battlefield control and the capabilities to hit like a truck only sweeten it. But what good is it when half the session is all one player?

>>47417139
>>47417180
>>47417608
>inb4 anon was trying to provoke exactly these reactions to prove to DDS that pfg isn't so bad

Let me believe in the inherent goodness of man pls.

>>47417571Be a half-orc, the racial archetype stacks with synth and makes you free rage whenever your armour is destroyed. It also gives you changeable evolution points and heals for eating your enemies which is sweet.

>>47417693
I prefer to think they're a paidrone trying to attack a 3pp with us as the weapon. They picked the wrong crowd and I think the others would just ban them for it to keep out of trouble, anonymity does not make us anybody's army we are simply individuals.

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19KB, 170x236px

>>47417693

>>47417773
Woman, however!

>>47417758
Now if I can get PoW initiation it'll be perfect. ..

>>47417788
Paizo, please leave.

File: Mourners Cover Revised.jpg (3MB, 4813x3095px)

3MB, 4813x3095px

>>47416524
>>47416575
I'm going to preface this by saying that right now, after all this time between the events that lead up to Grave getting written, it coming out, and now, I am still /angry/ that Grave got written, and *I'm the guy who wrote it*.

The thing is, [Creature Type] is an eminently shitty theme to focus a discipline around. Even types that /sound/ like they have tight, coherent themes don't. With Grave I focused back on the idea of necromancy and negative energy and it /still/ ended up as a loosely-themed defense/debuff disc, and that's with all the shit I left on the cutting-room floor - shit like diseases, fear, auras, summoning, reanimation, and rejuvenation, all of which are "undead", many of which are even /commonly/ undead - hell, just for that last one there's liches, psychic liches, ghosts, graveknights, and vampires!

So I was faced with taking something that sounded narrow, was in reality too broad, and trying to make it a discipline. And it honestly only goes downhill from Undead. What is "Fey" in this context? Are they the brain-dead nature spirits that Pathfinder inherited from 3.5? The Celtic beings of that name? Various cross-cultural tricksters known for deals and sorcery? There's no good answer to that question, only the choice of which group of potential customers I feel like pissing off, followed by facing the exact same problem of the type not having enough common themeing to create a discipline unless I stretch, badly, what it means to BE a discipline.

Undead happened because it literally had to, and that's all the comment I have on that matter. It ain't gonna happen again.

>>47416590
I'm literally writing the playtest adventure in my other tab. And I'll share the title, with the understanding that I am answering NO OTHER QUESTIONS on the matter: Sweep Your Own Porch.

>>47417813
>Gareth didn't write a lazylord undead-reanimator discipline

For shame.

>>47417813
What if I don't have a porch

>>47417809
>Paizo, please leave.
Under post 47417809 remove the last word and replace it with stay. In addition amend the arcanist spell list to also contain cleric and druid spells.

>>47417813
I'm Asian and I don't have a porch, just concrete roads.

>>47417837
>>47417852
That horribly painful feel when people don't get your reference. Ah well.

>>47414349
>Log Horizon
Did a pretty good job of that, actually.
The biggest difference with most modern MMOs is that Elder Tale appeared to have no conning difference; Something 2 levels below you has the stat/equipment differences that it has, unmagnified by the mere fact of there being a 2 level difference. In other words, you're not automatically perma-hard-fucked just for being five levels under the guy ganking your entire party at once (and will probably kill him).

>Partying is paramount; no one is 'soloing' the game for bullshit reasons

>You want main tanks, you want healers dedicated to them, and the DPS should know their fucking job

That and Fucking Fetch Quests were a thing. They were so a thing that some of the initial mass-panic in the NPCs was the robot-like adventurers suddenly no longer showing up in buttfuck nowhere to go into the lava-death-woods to pick up 12 fucking zebra hooves (one per 2-3 zebras of course) in exchange for a pittance.

I did enjoy that side of it, to the adventurers it's "we've been dragged into the bodies of game characters and can't log out", but to the rest of the world, it's the fantasy robot uprising: as far as they're concerned, one day the automatons that do all the shitty and dangerous work turned sentient and decided they weren't going to travel three weeks into fucking nowhere just to clean out your fucking basement of blue slimes, thus wrecking huge chunks of their economy and way of life.

>>47417813

Understandable.

Do you feel like that overlaps with the Angelic and Demonic disciplines right now?

I must admit, I like Broken Blade but I do find it too limited by being 'Do it unarmed or do it not at all' in the same sort of way as you described Undead being a problem.

>>47417773
EVEN NOW THERE IS HOPE FOR MAN

>>47417813
If you had the choice of going back and getting rid of grave or (ignoring the difficulty) being able to have put out one that was coherent with itself which would you prefer? I think I know your answer but I just want to see if I guessed right.