Pathfinder General

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Why aren't you playing a princess?

>>47402795
castermartialbalance.webm

Question:

You can replace one of your maneuvers as you level up at every even level after 4th.

>Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even numbered warder level after that, she can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one she already knows. In effect, the warder loses the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. The warder need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level.

Key phrase:

>The warder need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level.

Now, with the retraining rules on PFSRD:

>Retraining a class feature means you lose the old class feature and gain a new one that you could otherwise qualify for at that point in your level advancement.

So, my question is: can I use the retraining rules to replace a known lower level maneuver with a higher level one by RAW?

>>47402810
Because my GM tends to use them as plot points as opposed to actual fleshed out characters. If I was to play one you'd bet yer ass he would have me reroll because he doesn't believe in 'Action Princess' characters where they leave the castle and have a mind of their own.

>>47402819
>No, it is NOT. Where did you get that idea from?
>A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, unable to react normally to the situation.
As soon as you've gone in combat you're no longer flat-footed and can act normally in combat (including getting your Dex to AC, making AoOs and immediate actions, etc.) and that's it. There are some effects that make enemies count as flat-footed (like Catch Off-Guard), but attacking from stealth isn't one of them despite the fact that it would make an attack undetected.

>>47392921
Literally look at AC in combat section. Not like it's hiding or anything.

> Sometimes you can't use your Dexterity bonus (if you have one). If you can't react to a blow, you can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC. If you don't have a Dexterity bonus, your AC does not change.

For what define as " can't react", failing Perception check on a Stealth enemy is one.

Noted that if enemy isn't using stealth, ie he was hide behind concealment like smoke or curtain but didn't use move action to stealth for some reason, then this check doesn't happen and you can react to his blow.

>>47402795
Almost all of my characters carry ~20 pounds of random alchemical gear just in the off chance they need to break out of a jail cell non-magically or some other similar situation.

>>47402819
>>47402915
Flat-foot is a specific condition that deny your Dex-to-AC.

Not all things that deny your Dex-to-AC give you flatfooted condition.

>>47402810
I use sadpanda too much.

>>47402942
I know that this is a totally different scenario, but does that mean that someone who is stunned/bound/dazed can't make reflex saves to avoid fireballs etc?

>>47402942
The problem is that's just Dex-denied, not flat-footed. Flat-footed causes the target to be denied their Dex bonus, but just because the target is denied their Dex bonus it doesn't mean they're flat-footed.

>>47402964
They still can for some reason, but they should get penalties to the saves.

>>47402859
>Retraining a class feature
The class feature is called 'maneuvers'. Learning high level maneuvers instead of low-level ones is a part of it. It is completely different from general retraining rules.

>>47402964
They can still get save. Saving Throw also represent innate luck (Halfling luck, Sacred Tattoo etc.)

So yeah, a paralyzed person (who has 0 DEX) can still dodge fireball.

>>47402978
Didn't the original question was about counter and not flat-footed?

Any reason that "can't react" could be read as anything but "can't counter"?

>>47402795
Sometimes I just wing it, sometimes I build up a map and stat out seven or eight NPCs/monsters with class levels and personal motivations. Currently running a side mission that people got invested in so I added more details. Players are convinced they are about to die but it's not as bad as they think.

>>47402810
But I am. In a 5e game

>>47400867
>>47400974

Well the idea is to set it in the here and now, but draw from multiple sources ranging from Supernatural, the Dresden Files, the Laundry Files, Night's Black Agents to name a few

In view, the players represent a counter-occult/counter-supernatural agency with directives to ensure the brutal put-down of any unsanctioned occult/paranormal/supernatural threat; they are wetworkers, troubleshooters and hazard specialists.
The masses must be kept ignorant

And thus these agents use the very tools that the general public have very little or no idea about; currency in the form of gold pieces exists to ensure the upgradibility of magic items and objects

Combat is meant to be brutal, so I may actually look at FantasyCraft for ideas

The players are supposed to be starting at 1st level, with all 1pp supplements and PoW and psionics available to them

Do ability bonus from Wild Shape consider to be a permanent bonus?

Assuming that I can at level 8, so I can use wild shape 3 time per day at 8 hour duration each (total of 24 hour).

>>47403420
With the spectacle of the Bond movies

>>47403420
Pathfinder is a terrible game to use for anything that strays too far from the default premise. I'd advice using something like Shadowrun or GURPS instead.

>>47403480
But the default premise is kept - killing things and taking their stuff, and maybe teabagging them
It's just the modernity that's changed

>>47403503
The default premise is killing things and taking their stuff IN A PSEUDO-MEDIEVAL SETTING

>>47403520
Well there's Numeria and that trip to Earth in that Winter AP

>>47403420
Why not use Delta Green?

>>47403570
And the tech systems Numeria introduced were /terrible/.

The prices of items respective to their availability in the economy and the state of industry, the possible ramifications of various magic spells, the fluff of a bunch of classes and the entire /idea/ that a number of classes are even relevant all assume the world is in a pseudo-medieval setting and development stage.

>>47402810
As the DM I am playing several princesses.

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>>47402810
I just realized I've been playing tabletop RPGs for 14 years and I have never once seen a player or NPC princess. Where did it all go wrong?

>>47402810
I did play a 'princess'

Though it was Princess the Hopeful in WoD

I suppose she's an actual princess by the end of the story. She was the favoured ghoul of a vampire assassin-turned-politician, who became Prince. She was his adopted daughter

>>47403661
Because none of those things can be changed or removed depending on the setting?

>>47403661
This is why we can't have nice things

>>47403661
>>47403797
Yeah, you can easily remove the gold value cost from anything or change it depending on availability.

I mentioned once that it's pretty hard to be a techie without at least a brown e-pick, something listed at 30gp. so it had to be pretty available..

My gm ended up giving me one at char gen, but added, "in return, you will never presume to quote gold costs of technology guide items to me again." Because depending on the world, things will be completely different, as with all magic items. Change it up, anon!

>>47403661
Because that shit is etched in stone and cannot be modified in any way

Is there any way to gain access to a revelation from a different mystery as an oracle?

I think Life would be pretty amazing, but I would very much like Nature's Whispers from Nature.

>>47403945
Ring of revelation?

>>47403993
Unfortunately that has the prerequisite of being in the same mystery.

I suppose if they wrote it that specifically, they didn't want us doing that.

>>47404014
Well, that was added via an FAQ then errata.

>>47404071
I hate you Paizo

>>47404014
>>47404071
>>47404084
Is there a single mystery with enough good revelations that you want to spend gold or feat (which I assume exists) to get more if you expect to play at least to PFS level 12?

>>47403447
Anyone? Temporary bonus means I won't get more damage from DEX if I use agile AoMF.

>>47404103
>>47404103
Lunar probably.

>>47404103
I kinda specified here >>47403945 and we're already level 12, going further.

Life Oracles make great healers, and it's as a gestalt class. Channel, Combat Healer, Energy Body, Enhanced Cures, Safe Curing and Spirit Boost would be great revelations for me (as I'm already a front liner in a very lethal campaign)

Nature's Whispers is very useful because my charisma is probably going to hit 50 by the end of this campaign, and that isn't limited by max dex bonus to armor class.

What are some martial weapon that worth picking up via Heirloom Weapon trait as Cleric? Anything noteworthy that isn't Greatsword or Longbow?

>>47404103
Oh sorry, you meant how Ring of Revelation works in its current form, not how I'd want to use it.

Yeah, not really. I guess I could go with lifesense, but there are probably better rings.

>>47403797
>>47403920

Because there's only so much you can change about a system before you realize you've changed so much you might as well use a different one.

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Does /pfg/ have anyone who's played a winter witch before? I have another player who wants to know how to properly build one, since they're thinking about playing one when they come back to the group. Unfortunately, I only know how to set up a regular witch, so I'm not really sure how to advise them on actual ice things. They wanted to be an elf, and are rather shamelessly inspired by overwatch's Mei, if that helps.
Something something wall of ice and Djezet skin+unerrata'd sleeves?

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Guys I've hit a dead end. Tomorrows session will include dragon(s) fighting and I need a character builds to deal with dragon(s).

>lvl 7
>pic unrelated

>>47404311
Just let it go.

>>47404341
There's PoW boosts and strikes that let you target touch AC by then, and those will hit almost certainly on dragons.

>>47404341
Some Elemental Flux can give you hefty capacities to resist energy, you can hit touch AC with others, and there's a few minor dragon-slaying classes, items, archetypes, but they're largely niche and not all that good.

Get a ring of evasion and some decent maneuvers for the job. The Ghostwalk boost is a good idea too, from Veiled Moon, as they don't hit as magic weapons, and neither does their breath.

>>47404509
I'll look into that, know any good feats to have?

>>47404560
>The Ghostwalk boost is a good idea too, from Veiled Moon, as they don't hit as magic weapons, and neither does their breath.
1) Am I imagining having dr/magic making your natural attacks magical?
2) Can anyone tell me why the fuck ethereal and incorporeal are different conditions?

>>47404625
You most probably want Advanced Study for your level 7 feat. There's a big array of powerful maneuvers that come up at that level, and starting out with three level 4 maneuvers instead of one is gonna be a big power increase. Of course, I'll need some more ideas on what you're planning to build to give further suggestions.

>>47404300
Yeah, and gold piece values are not one of them.

>>47404681
1) Yes you are imagining that. DR/magic means that magic damage bypasses your DR, not that you have magic piercing attacks.

2) Ethereal is being fully immersed in the ethereal plane. You are considered both incorporeal and invisible. Incorporeal can be caused by a variety of conditions, including being a shadow, shadow demon, ghost or carrying a lot of different weapons. Incorporeal is just being a physical representation of your soul and does not necessarily have anything to do with planar jank.

>>47404723
I meant *carrying any of a variety of equipment that can grant that condition in some form.

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Good morning, you cuties. How the hell was your weekend? Did any of you have a nice session?

>>47402810

Because I'm playing the guy who protects the princess' smile.

>>47404685
My group need some front liners, so a mix of defence and offense

>>47404723
>1) Yes you are imagining that.
Looks like I'm not.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Damage-Reduction-Ex-or-Su-
>Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

>>47404832
I'd suggest a Zweihander Sentinel Warder (Plus maybe ordained defender) with Black Seraph added in. Pickup Scarlet Eye's Perception as one of your level 3 maneuvers, and then Circle of Razor Feathers+Bilious Strike from Adv Study at 7, and Sanguine Perseverance from the levelup.
Grab the Martial Charge feat, and when your turn starts, pop up Scarlet Eye's Perception into a Bilious Strike charge. This should reliably nauseate the dragon for one round, and you can initimidate if you have the Black Seraph's Glare stance+Armiger's Mark. Next round you use Circle of Razor feathers, at which point the dragon will be fighting with a -4 penalty to attack rolls and saves, with a further -4 to attack rolls to any targets other than you (And nearby allies will be getting +2 to AC from your Aegis). You should probably grab Fear the Reaper and keep it up for whenever the dragon manages to get past an ally's AC.

>>47404753
No sessions were had. None of the two tables I'm playing at or the campaign I'm DMing happened due to scheduling conflict and missing players.

On the good side, that gave me lots of time to prepare possible quest hooks and NPCs.

I don't like to DM when one of my players is missing, but I feel like I'll have to start getting used to it, it's hard to schedule a game when you have five adult players who all have different jobs.

Have any of you guys checked out occult archetypes? I've heard there's one for kineticist that just lets them swap out infusions for utility talents.

>>47404895
Huh, I really didn't know that.

>>47404906
Dumb question. How does maneuver work, is it like spell? I never really ventured out from fighters and rogues.

Do you get any attack bonus from attacking an opponent while invisible and them unaware of you being there?

Flat-footed notwithstanding, let's pretend you're joining an ongoing fight while under an invisibility spell and no one has special senses or beaten your Stealth roll.

>>47404753
No sessions since our last campaign died but I'm DMing one of my own next week Homebrew setting and tons of homebrew rules that should fix the worst of PF.

I'd rather be a player but beggars can't be choosers I suppose. Atleast I'm somewhat motvated.

Group so far is
>Human Bushi Stalker
>Human Unchained Summoner
>Half-Elf Staff Magus
>Minotaur Skald
>Halfling Fey Mesmerist
>undecided fuck wanting to play a ranger but not wanting literally 90% of the class features.

>>47404979
Yeah. It's essentially martial spells that can be recovered and reused through various means. It's 3rd party content though (Path of War).

>>47404979
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/systems-and-use
Welcome to the Path of War, anon

>>47404753
Weekend went well but session is tonight. Going to see if any new PCs are necessary by the end of a fight with a high level drider sorcerer and and an ooliodroo.

>>47405009
I'm going to ask my GM if it's allowed
>>47405025
The more I read the more fun it sounds

>>47402859
No. Retraining rules are separate, and require you to make a choice that you could have made at the level that you made the original choice.

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>>47405111
>The more I read the more fun it sounds

Warder and all it's iterations are pretty much everything you've ever hoped for in a martial.

>>47402953
I have 20 pounds of nothing but balloons on my bomber-Rogue, not even counting all the other alchemical supplies she carries.

Not because I find it especially useful, but just because it's fun to attach giant balloons to things and watch them float off into the sky. Though I suppose I could always just attach them all to the jail and fly us off into the sunset if we need a quick escape...

>>47402810

Played one in a friend's fire emblem tabletop game. Was great fun.

Princesses are totally fit for a class as elegant and adorable as the pegasus knight, after all.

>>47403057
Because "can't react" is flavor text. For the rule to actually prevent you from using a counter, it would have to specifically say that you can't use an immediate action (which is why you can't use counters while flat-footed, because it specifically prevents you from using immediate actions).

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>>47402810

The problem with princesses is they're all accounted for in Golarion.

And the few that aren't became special NPC escorts!

What you should really play are Princes, because there's fuck-all mention of them in the lore and I can't actually recall there being a single notable example of a male heir-apparent in the setting.

>>47403447
No, it's not a permanent bonus, because it has a set duration. That said, I see no reason why you wouldn't get your Dexterity to damage from a temporary bonus, just like you would get your Strength to damage from a temporary Strength bonus.

>>47405168
You can't play a princess, but you can play a noble lady, a daughter of aristocracy or the brat of a bandit leader in the river kingdoms.

>>47405168
>What you should really play are Princes
I've played a con-artist pretending to be a prince pretending to be a traveling bard before, does that count?

>>47402810
I am playing one. Her kingdom got blowed up (along with everyone else's) but she took charge of the survivors and is helping lead them to rebuild.

It's kind of a fallout-inspired post-apocalyptic game and we're using the Kingdom Building rules.

She is kind of a murder princess though. Has to be, considering that so far nearly everyone we've met outside our survival shelter has wanted to kill us all.

>>47405120
Should I prioritize my stats in Str and Dex?

>>47405186
>brat of a bandit leader
That actually sounds pretty adorable. Raised as a rough and tumble tomboy, she yearns to enjoy the finer things in life, and she's perfectly ready to cheat, steal and swindle her way to having them! Of course, actually ending up at a high society ball leaves her rather awestruck at just how fine the things in life can be for those who aren't always on the run.

>>47405217
>the Kingdom Building rules
We covered precisely why those were utterly ridiculous shit a few threads ago.

>>47404357
You stop that

>>47405254

Are there any better options system-wise?

>>47404906
>tfw want to do paladin/zweihander sentinel gestalt
>originally planned to do paladin/oracle build
>paladin/ZH looks cool for combat but the oradin is better overall

Eh.

>>47405186
>>47405251

Can't you play the daughter of the Stag Lord in Kingmaker?

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>>47405238
As a warder? Usually you wanna go Str and Int.

Path of War gives martials a reason to care about their mental stats.

>>47404311
I've played with one in the party.

They have a thing that lets them cover the ground in ice which deals damage every round in a 20ft radius.

Fucking annoying and inconsiderate of the melee characters in the party, though.

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>>47404753
I couldn't join, cause I've currently been innawoods for the last week, and just now made it to a wifi connection. Though I was told it was cool.

Apparently, my friend's UCMonk who took feats to use Broken Blade was able to 1v1 a Warlord that was two levels higher than him by stacking damage from a Stance and Dragon Style

Almost wish I was there to see. Almost. I still prefer being out here doing bird banding and all that stuff.

>>47405238
>>47405395
Yeah from what I can see the warder gets INT to number of AoO's, so the only important things for DEX are initiative, reflex saves, and AC. AC is fairly negligible since you'll probably be wearing full plate anyway. Improved Initiative helps compensate. Reflex might be an issue but it's the will/fort saves that tend to kill you on a fail.

>>47405377
No idea. The only game of KM I got to play, our DM changed stuff around to keep the people who had played before off balance. Like she made some minor drake into a full dragon, upgraded the bandit army and added teleporting magus assassins before we even had our first winter. Oh, and she made it a goal to have every female PC raped one way or another.

I'd love a shot at a decent run of the AP though. Maybe one day when I finish the current game I'm running.

>>47405480
>she made it a goal to have every female PC raped one way or another

>guaranteed replies

For me it's more the idea of managing a kingdom that appeals that the Kingmaker module itself.

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>>47405480
>Oh, and she made it a goal to have every female PC raped one way or another.

How many female PCs did you have?

Regardless, the Stag Lord canonically does not have a child, but it's not a stretch to assume he fucked some peasant girl and got her in the homemaking way.

He's also a hopeless drunk that was ruthlessly abused by his father, to the point he got a bottle of acid to the face (it's why he always wears the Stag's Helm.)

Anyone else think Paizo were a lot better at writing evil characters back in the day? Between the Stag Lord, his lieutenants, Nualia and the Queen in CotCT, they all had some pretty damn solid motivations for turning evil.

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>>47405450
Yeah, int determines a ton of bonuses and dcs for you as well.

If your GM says yes, they are releasing a new book soon, and much of the goods are solidified.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423981-Dreamscarred-Press-Path-of-War-Expanded!-(Discussion-Thread-VI)

Warder is the only of the base three that I never had a hand in making, but I always though it would be entertaining to play that with combat patrol, a reach weapon and use Piercing Thunder for more reach and associated maneuvers.

Just lock down a whole region.

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>>47404753
No. I might be rebooting an old campaign with another group "soon(tm)" depending on how things go, though, so that maybe makes up for it.

>>47405480
Were you just experienced players, or higher level?

Did you survive? Why the raping? Was it her fetish?

Was she successful in her goal?

>>47405497

The kingdom managing rules suck, you'll come to despise your realm by the 5th session with the mechanics.

>>47405497
>guaranteed replies

If only I were making it up. No longer have contact with her at least.

>>47405531
Four. Nice cleric girl (date raped), hotblooded inquisitor (gnoll gangrape), druid (captive of sadistic aberration) and an oracle (mindraped into serving werewolf sorcerer).

>>47405450
Actually, Warder replaces Dex to Initiative and Ref with Int. Tactical Acumen, IIRC.

Are Pathfinder's kingdom building rules salvagable, or am I better off scrapping them altogether and building my own system from scratch? Ditto for their mass combat rules.

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So query.

Could you play a Warder Archer with the snapshot line? Does Aegis increase the distance of the snapshot threatened area?

>>47405653
>Warder
Huh, you're right. Don't know how I forgot about that.

Dumping Dex - or at least having it no higher that 12 - seems pretty viable then

>>47405653
Is their INT constrained by max dex to AC, like Lunar or Lore Oracles?

>>47405733
>Through her knowledge of tactics, training manuals, and lessons in the histories of war, her wits aid her when her agility may be impaired by her heavy armor. The warder may add her Intelligence modifier to her Reflex saves and to her initiative in place of her Dexterity modifier

Nope

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What all classes and archetypes get Rogue Talents? I want to build an old and wily granny with innocuous servant.

>>47405683
Just use Hawkguard archetype. You essentially get Snapshot as a free class feature

>>47405741
Oh, I don't know why I thought it was to AC too.

Is there a decent way to get a basic ability to throw elemental bolts of any sort?

I'd like to do a Elemental Flux character that is just throwing bolts of energy rather than using a weapon but I can't find any real options for 'It's daggers/a bow but magic bolts' that don't involve 3 levels of multiclassing (Vigilante Warlock bolts have terrible accuracy unless you can get the 1/round touch attack).

>>47405747
>Rogue
>Unchained Rogue
>Slayer
>Ninja
>Archeologist Bard
>Stalker

Those are all I can think of.

>>47405768
Negotiator bard gets them too.

>>47405747
Steelfist Commando Warlord may choose Rogue Talents in place of bonus combat feats.

>>47405759
It would be fucking amazing if it was.

>A 2nd-level student of war is skilled at taking blows such that her armor or shield deflects them harmlessly. When using armor or a shield, she can use her Intelligence modifier in place of her Dexterity modifier for determining her Armor Class. The armor’s normal maximum Dexterity bonus still applies (limiting how much of the character’s Intelligence bonus she can apply to her AC).

From two levels in the student of war prestige class. Only thing that lets you get INT to AC unless you're unarmoured, I think.

>>47405768
So I'm guessing that Investigator and Alchemist can't? Bummer.

Oh well, I guess I'll just go Stalker Granny instead. That should be fun. Or maybe Hidden Blade Rogue

>>47405791
This might also be a cool idea.

>>47405825
Pretty sure Investigator can take Rogue Talents, but you're also better off not bothering with them because you have fewer talents you can waste.

>>47405747
I think I may still take snapshot and default warder because my threatened area would be bigger.
By level 20 you have a solid 30 feet of threatened space.

>>47405176
Because temporary dex bonus doesn't give you damage.

> Dexterity: Temporary increases to your Dexterity score give you a bonus on Dexterity-based skill checks, ranged attack rolls, initiative checks, and Reflex saving throws. The bonus also applies to your Armor Class, your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Tiny or smaller), and your Combat Maneuver Defense.

That's all temporary DEX bonus do, nothing more, nothing less. Even if you have the ability to use CHA for reflex saving throw, Temporary DEX bonus will still increase your reflex saving throw because that's what it do.

The question is whether Wild Shape multiple time count as "duration of 1 day" or not

>>47405619

>Gnoll gangrape

Gnolls are gnollwhere near the Greenbelt, she should've used werewolves.

Given this happened four times, I figure you were fine with it?

>>47405619
>>47405959
I mean, there was a werewolf involved.

How explicit were these encounters? Was this an ERP? Were the PCs okay with this?

Anybody have any suggestions for infusions and feats for an avant guard kineticist? They build really differently because of their blast.

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>>47405662

Personally, I'd just have the DM randomly build new buildings analogous to your current development (separate buildings into "tiers", a county can't have a royal palace, but a kingdom can) and let the PCs acquire BP they can either use for their own needs, or to accelerate the growth of the kingdom by building their own stuff.

Kingdom Building is a dry but functioning mechanic, but it's easy to fuck up the early game and when that happens, the kingdom's never going to recover (and unlike most Grand Strats, you can't just say "redo!")

>>47405767
Vizier gets a 2d6 ranged attack that eventually becomes elemental.

PF really makes it hard to make these sorts of characters.

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>>47402810
I couldn't find a game for her.

>>47406026

Not even now?

>>47406044
Anon, I would unhinge my jaw like a snake and swallow a man whole on national fucking television if that meant I could play a game inside my new prison cell. I can't find a game for ANYTHING.

>>47406019

Yeah, most of the options seem to really require heavily multiclassing.

Clearly I should bother >>47406026 and Co until they make a Mystic (magic!) or Warder (Controlling the area with bolts of magic and walls of protection would be badass) variant that gives you some basic magic bolts to use Elemental Flux with.

>>47404753
No session again.

>>47406074
Where...are you? I haven't heard anything about your new living conditions.

>>47406076
The funny thing is I was working a mystic that did that, but it changed so much shit(int based, recovery method, maneuver progression) that it could have been another class.

>>47406076

That and Warder being int-based would make it the best option for Elemental Flux by default.

That is one of my vague annoyances with the Mystic. It's not actually very good at Spellcraft.

>>47406074
Gareth, would you mind answering a question about how the avant guard kineticist interacts with some of the aether utility talents?

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>>47406136
Rubato bards are the best at Elemental Flux.

They generate tempo, which can be used as Animus. Also, they can use perform in place of spellcraft.

Their beats are so hot, they literally spit fire.

>>47406094
The prison cell joke was for swallowing a man whole, anon. My living conditions have not changed.

>>47406146
I would mind, but ask and I'll see if I can get the author in here for ya. 'm not on that project - can't answer directly!

Does the Warlock archtype get +1d6 every 4 levels or +1 damage every 4 levels?

The latter seems really, really shit compared to just getting yourself a bow.

>>47406136
One of my annoyances with E.Flux is that it's incredibly difficult to use/capitalize on animus without shooting yourself in the fucking foot feat wise.

>>47406188
I was just wondering how the aether talents (like telekinetic finesse and telekinetic haul) work with the archetype since it doesn't have the basic utility talent. I'm also curious if this interaction is affected by the character being an ethumion and having mage hand built in.

>>47406175
>image.

I see the connection but I feel brother tiesto feels more appropriate for rubato bard.

>>47406246
Aight, so: Forrest is going to be on Later (patent pending) to answer this; she's got a prior obligation at the moment but the link to your question be in her possession.

I'm sorry I can't be more directly helpful but I don't wanna fire off at the hip about someone else's work, y'know?

>>47406246
You need to spend one of your utility talents to get the basic one back.

(Though secret sources the #pfg irc tell me there's the upcoming option to buy back your basic utility talent with a feat)

>>47406267
Thanks for the help and for DSP affecting at least half the party.

>>47406274
More kineticist feats? I want.

>>47406267
Isn't forrest a guy?

>>47406246
Actually I have like two minutes before I have to go, so:

>Telekinetic Finesse
This utility talent doesn't require Basic Telekinesis, and unless Paizo FAQs it or something, it doesn't /use/ Basic Telekinesis either. It's literally just "You can perform any sort of fine manipulation you choose within close range, including attempting Sleight of Hand and Disable Device checks."

>Telekinetic Haul
Requires Basic Telekinesis, so you'd need to take Basic Telekinesis as one of your utility talents in order to get it. Once you do have it, you can freely use it to lift things without concentration, because of the burn reduction on its extra cost.

There's something coming down the line to help with this oddity.

>>47406309
She had some recent realizations about herself, anon. /pfg/ figured it out a bit ago, when she changed her profile over on Giantitp. It's not terribly relevant.

>>47405959
>>47405975

Like I said, DM changed things up so we got gnolls instead of ... lizardmen, I think. I was not cool with it but other players were so I didn't complain much. Bunch of 'grim and gritty' GoT fans. No ERP, just points where "yeah its gonna happen"

>>47406351
Thanks, guess I'll just wing it for now and bullshit in the feat that was mentioned to help here.

>>47406309
We memed him into a girl. We kept meming about how he would make a good trap, meme magic then made it true, now he's a gril.

>>47402810
I am, actually! It's great fun, I don't know why it took me so long.

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>>47402810
BECAUSE I AM THE SWORD-KING OF ALL AWAKENED CRABS

>>47405767
Flux level 5 (obtained at character level 9) stance.
Custom magic item of at-will acid splash or better http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/e/energy-splash . Can't make iteratives and damage is shit though.
Living Legend soulknife https://docs.google.com/document/d/11s0QOvYSzcOZNxyhqrKnJrIg-jROgdUxM0o8jUHRdzM/edit#heading=h.22oim74tdim1 in archmage role can do what you seem to want from level 1. It's incompatible with warsoul though.
Host of Heroes aegis https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pZCqqDCNYMTMXo56HPDKK61r-_H2qVO6Ydoz-F9FIhM/edit#heading=h.bd0cjel17hn2 can do so too, but I didn't check if it actually manages to make ranged attack and energy blast customizations not shit.

>>47406392
>Meme magic
God fucking damnit /pfg/. You just had to make one of the first /tg/ meme magic events one of the magical realm kind.

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>>47406309
>>47406392
Was wondering why this sounded so familiar.

>>47404753
Session is tonight! DM is off on the + GMT side of things so I'm not sure why he's decided to run a campaign at Fucking Late, American, except maybe it loops back around.

Anyway, things look like they'll be fun.

>>47405767
GAMBLER KINETICIST

Become the true ALL DAY blaster, and one that's actually pretty good at their job.

How do you lovely folks deal with large group combat? For example, if I'm leading a group of 20 soldiers and we attack another group of 20 soldiers, what are some quick ways to resolve the fight?

>>47406392
>>47406571
He was always an MtF tranny if you guys would have bothered to look at the icons below his GiantITP avatar.

Can Samsaran get "discount" spell via mystic past life?

like.. can Druid Samsaran grab Greater Angelic Aspect from a Paladin list (4th level spell) instead of Cleric list (8th level spell)?

>>47406800
If she was always mtf wouldn't that make her a her you fucking shitlord?

>>47406845
Sure, if you want your DM to be angry with you. Don't try to exploit game mechanics like that.

>>47405796
Dervish Defender Warder gives you Int to AC while wearing light armor.

>>47406845
Yes, and people who play Samsarans need to fucking beaten.

>>47406869
...what? Pls no bait.

>>47406885
...what if you're a Samsaran fighter?

>>47406761
Kineticists are like Mystics in that both are a pain in the ass to actually play, does the Gambler fix this?

>>47406936
>Kineticists are like Mystics in that both are a pain in the ass to actually play
says who?

>>47406917
No desert. Samsaran are pretty fucking worthless as a racial concept. I fucking despise the "this is a human but X" races.

>>47406871
>>47406885
But what if I need to get Archon's Trumpet spell as soon as possible? I can't call myself a true follower of Iomadae without that spell.

>>47406773
Pair off evenly matched people and flip coins to see who dies at the end of it. Pretty much give any ally who isn't a PC their own people to fight, then say what happened to everyone but the PCs at the end.

>>47406761

Gambler?

>>47406946
Says me.

>>47406936
Indeed. The Gambler is far more intuitive to play (You have stuff clearly meant for blasting, and stuff that you can choose to use for control and support, and they are pretty easy to separate).

So.

I'm in a Rise of the runelords campaign, and while I don't understand at all why it is so popular (just dungeon crawling with good decorum), I'm trying to prove a point to the DM that think we are too overpowered.

In truth, yes, we are somehow game-breaking powerful (monte-DM) ; but my point is that some of the vanilla encounters are dangerous and very much capable of TPK (looking at you, the lamia of the belltower).

Do you have a similar experience of this campaign ?

>>47406895
What do you think mtf means?

She's a she, you mung-slurping asswipe.

>>47407008
>>47406761

How well does the Gambler Kineticist let you play an 'Elemental mage' character? Is it tied to the fluff of well...gambling?

>>47406977
New archetype by DSP for PsiAug Occult. A Kineticist who's also a 6/9 Manifester focused on blaster powers.

Basically, instead of its normal effect, Burn is something you store up until you roll a 1 (or do one of a couple other things that have a risk of setting off a backlash and fuck them up)

Once you do, all your Burn hits you at once, taking out first your Power Points, then your HP.

But, they have a Move Action ability that lets them trade in Burn for temporary PP (that last rounds=your Gambler level). You can't use it on the same turn as any of your Burn-generating talents (called Wagers) so you can't be safe forever, but it gives you a way to turn all that Burn you're generating into more Power Points to fuel further, augmented lasers.

>>47407055
One of their abilities is literally 'Elemental Roulette', letting them shuffle between elements and immediately fire a ray/stun/nova power of that element. They're very much elemental blasters.

The 'gambler' side of things is the risk/reward nature of their powers, and could easily just be fluffed in the same way say, a Wilder is - 'I channel RAW ELEMENTAL FORCE and sometimes it gets a little out of hand'

>>47407025
> game-breaking powerful
The campaign was balance around an unoptimized party of Fighter,Rogue,Cleric and Wizard (essentially just Cleric and Wizard duo).

Any competence build would seem like a "game-breaking powerful".

>>47407096

Right. I'm not really a fan of the Wild/Uncontrolled theme but I'm not seeing many other options. Might have to go with that.

>>47407025
Its just badly planned campaing as a whole, the encounters are either piss easy (my barbarian could have gone solo most of the whole thing) or total TPK things where you need to have fully optimized group to handle.

>>47407107
The game wasn't designed around shit, as you routinely face high level casters with several ways to just end a party.

>>47407025
The only way for anything that isn't a party of iconic characters to not be "overpowered" in a Paizo AP is if you only have like, one or two PCs in the party and neither are Master Summoners or classes with companion creatures. Because then you'll just get fucked by action economy and being focused down, instead of just because of how shit you are.

Fuck that goblin druid and his firepelt. Killed the druid, then the firepelt tickled us for the double.

>>47407107
>essentially just Cleric and Wizard duo
Not when the cleric is a healbot who prepares Cure spells.

>>47407096
So, uh, what's left of base kineticist after gambler is applied?

>>47404753
Got kicked out because argued with God DM that his rules were wrong and no you don't roll percentile to attack with melee into a grapple and crits do not only multiply weapon dice. He already got mad because I think logically when trying to escape a room filled with lava while being shot at by dwarves through impenetrable doors... everything is unbreakable because "muh Dwarves craft everything to be impossible to destroy" and random bad stuff happens to the PC's because he says so. Also critical fails on EVERYTHING including initiative(which skips your turn). By the way he didn't tell me ANY of these random-ass homebrew rules before we started playing.

>>47407606
ash and rubble. just like there should be.

>>47407641

Sounds like it ended well for you, then.

>>47407641
Mine runs crit fails on initiative but your initiative is always last. So if someone with a negative initiative rolled a 0 they'd still go before you

I'm trying to find my misplaced chronicle sheet. Which scenario lets you play as a different race for a stupid amount of PP?

>>47407606
General themes? Also, you do still shoot ALL DAY basic blasts, you just attach psionic powers to them instead of Kineticist abilities.

>>47407606
Actual answer:
Nothing, all class features get replaced.
You're just left with their BAB, saves, and CON casting.

>>47407689
Yeah, same here. And 20s always go first.

What do you guys think would be a good homebrew of a werewolf pc. A player wants to play a werewolf but more a traditional cursed one. What positives and negatives would you give them? What about in lycan form?

>>47406964
So literally every core race, and every race besides:

>Lizardfolk
>Kobolds
>Goblins
>Monkey Goblins
>Lashunta
>Trox

>>47407817

Skinwalker?

>>47403033
Uh, no. A paralysed person is helpless, meaning they're considered willing for all intents and purposes and autofail all saves.
Particularly, this means that a sleeping person autofails all will saves.

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>>47406885
>>47406964
Why do you have so much hate in your heart?

Who did this to you?

>>47408035
So that means you can hold person and then immediately teleport them out?

My GM is running Rappan, so there are a handful of AD&D spells you need, so a few spells are their AD&D variations. I have an angel cohort (They get plane shift at will, and the AD&D plane shift can affect enemies), but this is much easier.

>>47405154
The problem with that though is it would require countering an attack that the initiator didn't know existed until it had already hit him. The Paizo "counters" like Deflect Arrows specify "You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed" which makes sense in context, but the PoW counters lack that which implies that you can always counter an attack even if it's made by a stealthed invisible enemy and you're blind and deaf.

inb4 someone says "it's paizo and therefore shit which is why you can counter without being aware of the attack"

>>47408066

Samsarans are one of the meme races, played by people trying to be deep and intellectual.

>>47408035
Learn how "willing" works, it only functions for spells and effects that specify a "willing" target like Teleport and Companion to the Lonely.

>>47408112
They use an immediate action, therefore you can only do it when you have an immediate action.

>>47408119
Oh, I got Kasatha and Samsaran mixed up in my head.

I maintain regarding the 'human but X' part.

Whats the best assassin type character I can make using path of war?

>>47408131
>>47408035
Where does it say this?

The conditions section make no mention of saving throws or willing.

>>47408195
>Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

Huh.
I thought it's all helpless, apparently unconscious only. Still, sleeping targets are always willing. That's the important part.

>>47408188

A slayer with martial training, probably!

>>47405796
any way to then get Int to ranged attack and damage?

I don't mean one of those shitty old "as a standard action lol" traps, obviously.

So I'm bringing a custom race list to my game. This is going to include a flatworm colony species, a parasitic species, Neanderthal like humans. Humans, and a squat amphibian folk based on early land amphibians.

>>47404164
Different guy, but I love the idea of a lore oracle. The cha to AC+reflex lets you dump dex in combination with a feat for cha to initiative, and the +20 on lore checks is quite strong.

Also,
>50 CHA
How?

>>47408155
But anon, 'human but X' describes almost every single race! You have to go maximum snowflake just to AVOID 'human but X!'

>>47405254
And if we wanted /pfg/'s input, we'd have come to the thread to see. So thanks but no thanks.

>>47408229
Which is why sleeping is fucking dangerous.

>>47408278
I can hit 50 int easy on a wizard.

>>47408282
>tfw no decent quadruped races beside centaur, and that's just stapling a human to one

Does anybody know what the new feat to undo avant guard's lose of first level class abilities will be called or do beyond giving back the basic utility talent?

>>47405767
>>47406524
The Warsoul would allow you to use elemental bolts but you'd be materializing weapons for it.

I mean they're just energy constructs and you can do this shit all day (and quickdraw free-action it once a round at 5+) and all, but it's probably not *exactly* as you wanted unless you want to refluff a little.

>>47408281
Goblinoids aren't really special snow flake.

>>47408229
Drow Poison here we come.

>>47408278
Mostly through Mythic. We're Mortal Heralds, so we got a free +2 inherent bonus to all stats.

I'm taking all 6 uses of enhanced ability. That and the 5 free ones you get as you increase in tiers gives you a max of +22 to one attribute. That and the other +2 just means I have to get to 26 naturally. With the +6 headband I already have and +2 from being human, that's easy peesy with level up bonuses.

>>47408278
Probably Mythic

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>>47408330
But they're like Southerners except green.

>>47408334
Take the Longevity Universal Path Ability and get that sweet extra +3 from being Venerable with no penalties.

>>47408336
>>47408334
I can hit 50int as a normal wizard, or 58 as an alchemist.

>>47408358
That's a good thought, and in time I may manage to get the artifact necklace of +10 CHA off our bard, but my character is 18 (former child soldier), so hitting venerable is probably not very likely in this campaign.

>>47408364
How as a normal wizard?

I could go higher in this campaign, I'm just a martial, so I have other stats to at least pay a little attention to.

>>47407096
Regarding Roulette: It's "as if you had made the Raise the Stakes wager", so the power will be equipped as a second-stage payload on your kinetic blast.

The advantage of roulette is that it lets you instantly change your element (though randomly) and that you don't even need to know those powers. So arguably, later on, you could just grab it to effectively learn 6 powers for free, though only Disintegrate is set in what type of damage it will deal.

Would get pretty insane in a gestalt using Elemental Flux and E.Flux Style though!

>>47408351
Nah. Pathfinder goblins do not act like humans at all. They're sociopathic baby eating hedonists as a species. Hobgoblins are rather similar to humans. Bugbears are as warped as goblins though.

All of their anatomy is different humans except for being bipedal. Goblin proportions are retarded. Hobgoblins have a fair amount is difference. Bugbears have physique more like apes.

I know you can upgrade a magic item, but can you modify it to be slotless?

>>47408396
18 (base) + 4 (variant tiefling) + 6 (belt) + 5 (wishes) + 3 (age) + 3 (occult book) + 5 (levels) + 6 (fiendish accession from simulacrum) = 50

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>>47408315
It's always bipeds trying to learn the human condition, all the time.

I wanna be the little spidertank

>>47408188
>>47408230
Probably, but I feel like DSP is really good about making classes that are just "low/mid tier martial class but better in almost every way"

I also don't really understand how to build an assassin type character that's actually any good and doesn't fall apart past level 4

>>47408327
No reason not to play psyarmory if bolterguy is fine with refluffs.

>>47408315
Unless they have six limbs quadrupeds are gimped in tool use.

>>47408478
DSP has the most in combat utility period. Against a caster of equal level an initiator almost always has more options. Out of combat this disappears, but just make sure to not have too many manuvers that do too similar of things. I say use full attacks if you want damage, your manuvers should be for everything that isn't damage.

An optimized initiator is essentially unstoppable once combat begins, barring a caster who prepared for like 4 days making simulacrum.

>>47408188
Sussuratore with Fools Errand?

>>47408603
Fool's Errand is Shit

SHIIIIIIIIIT!

>>47408619
It's not my fault if it's beyond your grasp

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How do you make the DC on a poison as ridiculous as possible?

I want to play a tranq build with just absurd amounts of drow poison.

>>47408547
You do have to choose them for it, but out of combat utility isn't bad either; that's why they're Tier 3.

>Healing and Condition-Negators
>Detection upgrades (evil, magic, etc)
>Movement Modes
>Skill boosters
>Protection from Good/Evil
>CERTAIN social boosters such as Intimidate if Black Seraph

>>47408619
>>47408660
I wouldn't call it shit, but it's really annoying that so many disciplines are "EVERYTHING HERE IS SUPERNATURAL, YOU ARE FUCKED IN ANTIMAGIC", while Fool's Errand is all "so with this maneuver you freely copy a much higher level maneuver from anyone at will, but it's totally nonmagical. Also you get Space Jump and Screw Attack, but those are totally EX abilities even when you're using the other guy's Time Stop because uh, something something autism. But setting fire to your arrows is still only magic for everybody else.

>>47408547
That's very handy but like, it doesn't answer my question

Whats the best sneaky class, stalker? Is the feat chain actually worth taking with slayer?

Anyone have suggestions for Psychic Detective spells/feats?
I just hit level 3.


I have massive Int and want to be a relatively non-physical skill monkey.
However my group needs me in combat, unfortunately, and I am not quite sure what to do with no decent weapons and 10-12-10 physical stats. Minmax me up senpai.

>>47408735
Umbral Blade is the best stealth class, hands down.

There are a dozen save or dies in the system, but if you really want to be effective, you have to deal damage. Lots of it.

>>47408674
I'm not saying their OOC utility is bad. It isn't. It just isn't near that of prepared casters.

To be honest I can see the argument with the new disciplines and the variety of possible effects Initiators have moved into tier 2.

Because of their low optimization floor they often end up better than unoptimized higher tier characters.

>>47408721
Shit I have a lot more issues than that. They actually buffed the anti-magic manuver. Grasp is a shit system (especially with its ability to reposition) and the fucking "not flying" stance. It's trash.

For the purposes of extended defense and the Chilling grave defense counter (-4 str and dex penalty to attacker), does that penalty stack if they continue attacking and you counter repeatedly?

>>47408721
>Literally the 'mundanes can't have nice things argument'

Christ.

>>47408776
>To be honest I can see the argument with the new disciplines and the variety of possible effects Initiators have moved into tier 2.
T2 can pull shit like greater teleport, create demiplane, or wish.

>>47408869
...By raw yes, since it's untyped.
I think any smart enemy would get the point by the second attack and stop though.

>>47408672
Is third party allowed? I've got a big pile of notes, but most of the stuff's third party.

>>47408721
If your DM is using AMFs against you you're fucked anyway. There's no difference except fluff.

>>47408735
Trailblazer Aegis, using a bit of initiating for access to the Lords of the Wheel Tradition

>+2 Insight to Bluff, Sense Motive, Stealth
>Lurker in Darkness feat
>+1/2 Aegis Level to stealth while focused with astral suit active
>Chameleon Suit (+4 circumstance to stealth, can stack once for every 5 levels)
>Ability to use/access Chameleon Psi Power (+10 enhancement to stealth before augments)
>Access to Veiled Moon Discipline, thus blur, see invisibility, etc to go with Aegis' burrowing, darksight, underwater and flightcapabilities...

Oh and you can also toss in the veilweaving as well.

>>47408938
Yup!

Ideally DSP, but I'll listen to whatever you've got.

>>47408893
Rather, it's "you JUST said mundanes couldn't have these nice things when we asked why even "you move more quickly" is auto-supernatural in other disciplines".

Annoyance at a double-standard.

And, personally, the whole "technology is too broad and useless a thing to ever have a discipline touch or use, and it makes no sense compared to being able to mimic everything supernatural with just your wanting to because".

Plus that "initiator mod rounds" anti-everything boost or counter just sits wrong with me; boosts don't fucking get to last that long.

>>47408942
If your DM is using AMFs against a riven hourglass or elemental flux user, he's hard fucked.

If your DM is using AMFs against a fool's errand user that's literally copying riven hourglass or elemental flux, nothing happens, so he's not fucked anyways at all.

>>47408968
Just to note it gets those, not "go grab those".
Except the chameleon powerstone. That you'll need one.

>>47408902
You can't use those spells as the standard of tier 2, because that's not tier 2's description. Initiators can do things casters can't like dominate monster in a 40ft cone as well.

Demiplanes almost never effect play, and people on Pfg seem to forget wish cost 25k a pop and specifically says stuff that isn't standard will fuck you over.

>>47409042
>boosts don't fucking get to last that long
Chimera Soul gets you a boost that lasts for a solid minute and improves your size and attributes.

>>47409042
Go back to Giantitp, Kiton.

>>47409063
No, because if you're copying one of those maneuvers, you're COPYING THOSE MANEUVERS and they're Su, no?

>>47409160
No they aren't because fool's errand is all Ex. Apparently according to DSP the copies aren't Su.

Also being able to copy manuvers is far too strong, one of the limits on initiators is their small list of readied manuvers. This throws that out the window. It isn't balanced.

>>47409160
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?487641-Dreamscarred-Press-Path-of-War-Fool-s-Errand&p=20808421&viewfull=1#post20808421

> When you use the sincerest form of flattery, lesson VI: supremacy, or proof of victory to emulate a supernatural ability, it remains supernatural. Regarding the ladder, as I said in my first response, that stance falls into the category of things that can be described as an extension (however unrealistic) of real-world things or physical processes. Ex abilities "do not qualify as magical, though they may break the laws of physics;" it's no more of a double-standard than a level 1 barbarian being able to outsprint the best real-world runners for minutes on end, or a high-level character being able to wade through lava and shrug it off.

>>47409201
>Apparently according to DSP the copies aren't Su.

[citation needed]

>>47409201
See >>47409217 friend.

>>47409220
>"When you use the sincerest form of flattery, lesson VI: supremacy, or proof of victory to emulate a supernatural ability, it remains supernatural."

Citations are indeed needed for a reason.

>>47409217
Thanks, Gareth.

>>47409217
I completely disagree with the second half of that statement, grabbing the air and climbing air isn't an extension of real world. God damn that is stupid.

>>47409264
Anon, have I said this to you before?
THAT IS EXACTLY HOW BIRD WINGS WORK.

>>47409264
Stop missing the key parts of the sentence if you're going to quote it.

"HOWEVER UNREALISTIC" is the key phrase

What it is is bending the laws of physics, but does not require magic to accomplish.

>>47409264
And by RAW your average person probably couldn't identify his own species if he looked at himself in the mirror. I agree that's really fucking dumb and tone breaking, but PF is full of that shit by default.

>>47409293
Again, you're not flapping with your arms. It's described as holding onto the air. It is was described as flying I'd be fine. It is specifically not.

>>47409264
Now that there's a Climb-based disc, just wait for them to check off the next box, Swim-based disc, complete with a stance that flies by swimming through the air, because after all, air is a fluid!

>>47409031
Ok then, here we go.
-(Paizo) Poison Focus feat is +1 to DCs

-(Paizo) Powerful Poisoning feat is Power Attack for poisons

-(Paizo) Master Poisoner is a prestige class you've probably already spotted. Treacherous toxin lets you forgo sneak attack dice to boost the DC, therefore any SA dice boosts are now DC boosts
In it's talents
-Combine poison could let you slip two different knockout poisons on at once, for two saving throws
-Concentrate poison is a +2 DC boost
-Pernicious poison SLA is -4 to opponent's saves

-(101 magic weapon properties) Ambush weapon property is +1 SA dice

-(The Genius Guide to the Talented Rogue) Master of Poisons rogue talent is +2 DC

-(Krazy Kragnar's Alchemical Surplus Shop) Alchemical goads are +2, +4 or +6 to DC depending on how much you want to spend

And I've got
Feat: Master Poisoner{louis-porter-jr-design} (Choice of +1 to DC, +1 frequency or +1d6 damage)
Feat: Master Poisoner{drop-dead-studios} (+2 DC)
Written down, but not sure which book they're from.

I seem to recall some method of combining two doses of a poison together to increase the DC, but it didn't last long enough for my tastes so I haven't noted it down.

>>47409308
>>47409328
Grabbing onto and kicking off the air, while anime, is pretty well established in fiction as a Just That Good thing.

>>47409353
>I seem to recall some method of combining two doses of a poison together to increase the DC, but it didn't last long enough for my tastes so I haven't noted it down.

Concentrate Poison, alchemist discovery.

>>47409367
I seem to recall in 3.5, it was canon that monks with absurd Jump checks could fly by jumping from motes of dust in the air. In that context, I'm perfectly fine with climbing the wind.

>>47409367
>Grabbing onto and kicking off the air
Anime gets into some dumb stuff, but I can't think of an anime that's had shit like that and wasn't a blatant parody of shonen shit.

>>47409367
I can not think if an example of it outside of anime. Even then that isn't a good way to justify it.

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>>47409264
>grabbing the air and climbing air isn't an extension of real world
>He can't climb the air any time he wants
>He can't extend Za Warudo

>>47409395
Which is also retarded. Also it required DC85 jump checks or something similar.

>>47409308
Flapping a wing is just 'pressing on enough air at once that it pushes back at you'. It is exactly 'grabbing and climbing the air' except with a really wide flat surface instead of a hand.


Flapping your arms is an even stupider image, anon.

>>47409403
Ex abilities can explicitly break the laws of physics. If you could attain traction on air, which does have mass, you could kick off of it.

It breaks the laws of physics, but it doesn't require supernatural interference, just exaggerated physical shenanigans.

>>47409399
Naruto, One Piece, Negima, and Rorouni Kenshin don't really scream "blatant parody" to me.

>>47409432
Son, I'm not sure you belong in Pathfinder. Pathfinder _IS_ retarded wuxia shit. If you want your gritty realism, /5eg/ is that way.

>>47409377
Oh yeah, duh, I even wrote it down in the same post.

>>47409031
And here's some third party poisons I had noted down because they sounded more interesting than most.

(A Necromancer's Grimoire - The Art of Traps)
-Amnesia Dust: 4500G, Inhaled, 1/rd*5, Will DC28, no cure, lose last 1d4 hrs of memory
-Jungle Frog Poison: 75G, Injury, 1/rd*1, Fort DC17, no cure, fatigued 1d3 hrs
-Laughing Gas: 2800G, Inhaled, 1/rd*5, Will DC24, cure 2 saves, 1rd Hideous Laughter on each failed save
-Paralyzing Vapors 7500G, Inhaled, 1/rd*3, Fort DC28, no cure, paralyzed 1d4 minutes (stacks on each fail)
-Sulfuric Fumes: 10000G, Inhaled, Fort DC30, 1/rd*3, 2d6 Con damage

(Into The Armory)
-Sleeping Powder: 100G, Inhaled, 1/rd*4, Fort DC15, Cure 2 saves, Inital fatigued 1 minute, secondary unconcious 2d4 hours
-Wanderer's Luck: 1000G, Injury, 1/min*60, Will DC17, Cure 1 save, Teleport to random place on same plane. If saved in first 10 minutes, teleport back to initial position
-Choking Powder: 120G, Inhaled, 1/rd*4, Fort DC16, Cure 1 save, nauseated
-Halfling's Curse: 1000G, Ingested, 1/min*2, 1 min onset, Fort DC17, Cure 1 save, Shrink 1 size category on each fail
-Polymorph Poison: 4000G, Injury, 1/rd*5, Fort DC17, 1 save, Baleful polymorph with worse form on each fail

>>47409308
>>47409441

And furthermore... holding onto the air is exactly how PARACHUTES work.

Like, goddamn.

>>47409460
>The Art of Traps
Forrest's autobiography? I'd read it <3

>>47409459
>there is no area between Fantasy Looney Toons and dung ages, piss and shit, "get cut and die of infection" gritty realism

>>47409451

Mind you, Negima had them all using literal magic.

>>47409447
Something like a dragon's flight is EX because it is not possible. Physically holding onto the and kicking is fucking retarded.

Even with it being EX it's over complicated for what amounts to flight without fly checks. The complexity of the ability adds nothing to play and certainly does not invoke a heroic image.

Also basing it on the line DSP normally draws between Su and Ex it would fall on Su. DSP's standards are by no means clear cut.

>>47409500
Void Instant Movement is explained in UQ Holder as nonmagical.

>>47409031
>>47409460
And don't forget if you're a Guild Poisoner you can change any ingested/inhaled/whatever poison into a contact/injury poison, so literally anything can go on your blade.

Conversely, literally anything can be made into a smoke bomb, too.

>>47409472
A human body isn't a parachute.

A Parachute isn't climbing the air either.

You can't use a parachute to lift yourself up and over shit.
>>47409451
I don't remember much of Roruni Kenshin, but 3/4s of those are blatantly using what would be SU abilities in default pathfinder.

>>47409459

>5e

Anon, 5e is a system with barbarians who get so angry that they spontaneously learn to fly.

>>47409459
There is space between the two extremes. God damn.

>>47409517
>adds nothing to play

Says you. I like being able to jump between attacks on my strikes.

>heroic image

wuxia image though

>>47409531
>A Parachute isn't climbing the air either.

>You can't use a parachute to lift yourself up and over shit.

>what is parasailing

>>47409532
So is Pathfinder. Bloodrager is a thing.

>>47409451
All of those except RK are Su.

>>47409451
Rurouni Kenshin NEVER had anything like that.

The closest was Kenshin, while falling, forcing himself into a corkscrew to give his fast draw more power.

>>47409554
PF barbs had that before bloodrager anyway.

>>47409353
Oh jeez, thanks, anon.

I hadn't noticed the Master Poisoner PrC, it isn't on the PFSRD if it's Paizo, do you konw where I can find it?

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>>47409517
>Does not invoke a heroic image

It's wuxia lightfoot, man.

The Ladder is literally how you get the lake swordfight from Hero.

Which was fucking amazing.

>>47409554

Yes, I know. I'm pointing out that 5e is just as silly.

>>47409535
It doesn't even invoke a wuxia image. Find me wuxia where the guy is flailing and kicking as he flies through the air.

>>47409537
Something that requires a boat/vehicle, a driver, being shaped like a parachute, and can't be done at will with just yourself and no other equipment.

>>47409572
I really want to see the YouTube video of the scene of a guy kicking and flailing as he flies. If it exists please link.

>>47409576
How about, I dunno, minor flick nobody's ever heard of, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? Or.. ANY wire-fu, really. Look at them scrabble wildly as they "fly".

>>47409592
Sure.. In real life. Where the laws of physics apply.

>>47409576
>What is a Mortal Kombat bicycle kick

>>47409576
>.Find me wuxia where the guy iskicking as he flies through the air
House of Flying Daggers.
Iron Monkey.
Journey to the West (any of them).

>>47409531
Anon. This may be hard for you to comprehend, but.
Consider bird wings and parachutes work on very similar principles.

Consider what happens if you could use your hands or feet as a mix of them.

inb4 'but your hands and feet aren't parachutes or wings!' which is seriously where this seems to be going

>>47409568
...Whoops, slipped up there. Guild poisoner.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/guild-poisoner

>>47409616
Link I want to see this silly shit.

>>47409616
>>47409630
Yeah like, I'm with you, but at the same time, I want to see these clips so I can know if I want to watch the movies. I'm a wuxia novice and need good recs.

>>47409620
You're specifically not acting like a parachute. You are climbing the air. The description makes no attempt to say you are doing anything similar to flying in that way. You are literally finding handholds in the air.

>>47409639
To be honest the image it invokes is fucking retarded.

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>>47409031
Ah, and finally found the book it's from, Rogue Glory from Drop Dead Studios has this little beauty.

>>47409646
Out of interest are you the same guy who wanted to be ironman and was angry that aegis was too psionic to be ironman

>>47409556
Nigga, Soujirou Seta can move so fast that even Kenshin can't see him moving. He's so fast that he can run ON THE CEILING.

>muh wuxia
Most of that flying involves jumping and eventually falling down, even if it's for ridiculous amounts of time. If the ability was described as you jumping and double jumping indefinitely, I would have been fucking fine. But wriggling along the air like a fucked up gecko is stupid.

>>47409630
>silly shit
>basics in wuxia
In wirefu movies, flight is usually long jumps or air jumps. That is how it has always been, and that you don't know that speaks of your own ignorance.
And you want a link to a movie? I'll pass you a fucking torrent link, because none of them, save perhaps the early JttW and HoFD can be found to stream. I have them on disc.
>>47409639
You just got good recs.

>>47409686
See that's actually cool, and it's not like wall-running doesn't have a precedent outside of comedy cartoons.

>>47409687
>I am literally so autistic I can't even begin to conceive of refluffing things I don't like

>>47409681
Nope. Not that guy.

>>47409686
Yes, and that is explained by his Shunken (iirc).
Seijuro Hiko also stone parried a half ton sword, then pushed it back.
There are superhuman elements in Rurouni Kenshin, but not supernatural ones.

>>47409646
If you had a rope attached to a deployed expanded parachute in your hand, and pulled down on it hard and fast enough, if the force of the air pressure against the inside of the parachute is greater than your weight, you would instead be pulled up rather than the parachute being pulled down.

That is climbing the air.

(Why do you keep ignoring the wing thing man)

>>47409730
The ability actually forces you to move in stupid 10ft jumps based in your climb skill. Pretty hard wired.

> http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?487641-Dreamscarred-Press-Path-of-War-Fool-s-Errand&p=20811282&viewfull=1#post20811282
> I realize we've said, "it's coming," more than a cultist in a Lovecraft porn parody but if you need cynical assurance, have this: at this point, if we don't deliver, we'll get the hammer dropped on us.

I'm dying.

>>47409692
This ability isn't a long jump. You can keep going up indefinitely.

>>47409779
It's literally that one ability from one piece. Each "jump" off the air moves you a certain distance, because it's jumping, rather than fully controlled flight.

>>47409639
On top of those, I'd also rec the Detective Dee movies (Detective Dee and the Phantom Flame is the first)

>>47409730
You can refluff everything in the goddamn game and that fact that it's so stupid it almost requires a refluff to fly past most people doesn't speak well about the concept.
>lel my character can fly by climbing the air
Reeks of PunPun bullshit and is going to be a quick way to get a fine system banned at a table.

>>47409764
Because the ability does not describe it in those terms. It describes it as finding hand holds and pulling yourself along while kicking. It's not as if it says you cup your hands to find traction.

>>47409813
Go back to the Paizo boards.

This reeks of obvious bait.

>>47409813
>lel my character can fly because he waved a stick

>>47409806
One piece isn't a good measure of what is thematically appropriate.

>>47409813
>most people
[citation needed]

>PunPun bullshit
Now you're just dropping buzzwords you don't understand

>>47409850
We'll have to agree to disagree.

>>47409806

God damn, the Rokushiki would be pretty sweet to have on a martial character.

>>47409891
Fool's Errand literally does all of them if you want to. The discipline is a OnePunch Weaboo Wuxia wet dream.

>>47409827
> It describes it as finding hand holds and pulling yourself along while kicking.

Except it LITERALLY DOESN'T.

"Your intense training has given you the ability to climb the very air, grasping the world with your hands and kicking off with your feet."

Nowhere does it say it in the exact way you've described, you just took your initial stupid conclusion and hammered enough blind conviction into it to be unable to be convinced otherwise.

The parachute analogy given above also happens to be valid under that description.

It's a matter of whether you think the fluff implies something workable or something retarded, and there's nothing stopping it from implying the former with its current wording.

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>>47409891
It really would.

Even Fishman Karate or Santoryuu would be great.

Heck, even SANJI would be right at home as a T3 martial.

>>47409837
>martials should have everything and anything because lolcasters, anything else must mean your a paidrone
>>47409844
And that stick is blatantly magical and treated as such, yeah.
>>47409855
It's an exaggeration, but climbing the air like a ladder is really damn stupid and a terrible justification to shove a powerful ability somewhere it doesn't belong.

>>47409850
One Piece is a fantastic inspiration for a fantasy campaign.

I'd say it is the anime that most accurately resembles an actual campaign in play.

>>47409891
Fool's Errand is Rokushiki as fuck.

>>47409930
Damn it, now I want to play a Fishman Karate expert in Pathfinder.

But how do? Aurora Soul Mystic focused on Cold?

>>47409929
> ability to climb the very air
I'm not sure what climbing looks like to you anon. Even if it's not handholds it's a pretty silly image.

>>47409969
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climb_%28aeronautics%29

The type of climbing you do with ropes and mountain gear isn't necessarily the only way to climb, anon.

>>47409929
Yeah, climb on the very air. Nigga ain't flying.

>>47410011
Not fly.

Jump good.

>>47410006
I didn't know Airplanes were a PC race, neat.

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>>47409955
>lel my character can fly by climbing the air
>Reeks of PunPun bullshit and is going to be a quick way to get a fine system banned at a table.

You're just dropping buzzwords.
>Fine system

No one actually fucking cares that it's Ex over Su. They're just going to think, "oh like monks, or kung fu movies". People in this system do crazy things via Ex, you're literally just complaining that martials are getting stuff without casters being able to shut it down.

It's not 'everything', it's barely 'anything', but it's enough for you to be mad about.