Warhammer 40k General

>>47392947
Are there any bits to distinguish stern guard, vanguard, or honor guard from regular ol tac marines?

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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-40k-Astra-Militarum-Imperial-Guard-Painted-Cadian-Army-/291750445442?hash=item43edae8182:g:qfoAAOSwZtJW9VKd

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Starting today I will be emailing GW customer support a section of 1d4chans page on the company.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Games_Workshop

As such it will start off with praise and slowly evolve into paragraph rants about prices, loyalty and morality.

This is probably a meaningless display of rage but maybe it will accomplish something.

I encourage you all to join me and I promise to post any replies I receive to you.

>>47392988
am i suppose to be sad that its over priced or that i cant afford it i cant really tell.

Just got back from a Doubles tournament - managed to come 3rd with my Imperial Guard allied with my mate's Elysians. Had a lot of fun, the standout moment for me had to be this:

>Facing Space Marines and Eldar
>First turn, Librarius Conclave with Tiggy casts Shifting Worldscape on a building with a load of Dire Avengers and D-scythe Wraithguard
>Manages to Perils and forget Shifting Worldscape, but the building ends up in front of my tanks
>D-Scythes eviscerate a Chimera and a Leman Russ

>Our turn
>Wyverns open fire on the Wraithguard
>Hit the Dire Avengers too
>24 wounds on the Wraithguard, 36 on the Dire Avengers
>Both squads removed, along with a Warlock who was attached to the Wraithguard
>"If you look closely you can actually pinpoint the exact moment his heart breaks in two.”

Any tournament stories from this weekend/whenever?

Is there anyone else who doesn't actually play the game?

>No shops/FLGS in my town that sells/plays 40k.
>Friends aren't interested/interested but not willing to actually spend money on it and/or paint.
>Still order and paint stuff anyways.
>Posts lists on here to see if they're good or not anyways, even though I'll never actually get to play them.

Such is life.

Why don't the Dark Eldar have a Jump Infantry HQ?

Are there any modern tanks or armoured vehicles that actually USE sponsoon mounted weaponry?

>>47393287
you asked this last thread and got lots of answers.

>>47393287
Already answered in the last thread m8 :-)

>>47393310
No.

In WWI they did, however.

I'm having a really hard time reacclimating after being couped up for so long without any social contact.

I want to get back into the hobby (I've played before and live a block away from a GW store) but that means I gotta spend money, and I want to make sure that I get the right stuff, which means thinking in advance and buying the right models.

thats why i keep dicking around with lists.

>>47392988
well at least they are painted nicely

Last thread died. So if I have profit of the waaagh special rule a la ghazy, and if I utilize the formations in the supplement that lets me waaagh every turn, does profit of the waaagh take effect each time I call it?

>>47393431
Is there any counter indication on the subject ?

Would it be feasible to paint up a Knight in such a way that I could use it as both a loyalist and renegade? Maybe swap out masks or banners to help differentiate them.

>>47393457
Don't know. There's not much saying that you can't. The book says you can waaagh Everytime even the first turn if you make a great waagh band. (Yes I know the point cost is high). I don't remember if the ork book says "once per game" not at home yet

>>47392947
didn't there use to be an imperial guard unit called the "Medusa"?

>>47393531
If you don't remember ,go check it out ,and if it's not mentioned you can go for it
t. Someone who never played the ttg

>>47393589
nm, i found it.

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>>47393515
This paint job is a loyalist house but damn if it doesn't look just like HH sons of horus.

Its from the Freeblade Gerantius.

>>47393170
>have a great flgs
>easy as fuck to get a game
>don't want to play a game until my army is fully painted/based
>barely paint and have no idea how to do my bases
>keep buying more models delaying basing/painting
such is life

>>47393321
>>47393315
Oh shit, thanks senpai.

>>47393724
>Paint a few models in a scheme
>No I hate this
>Do some more in another
>No I hate this
>Decide to try the Storm Wardens scheme
>Holy fuck I love this

I think I might actually get my army painted if I can figure out how to do metallic blues.

>>47393724
>play games almost weekly
>unpainted or poorly painted models
>terrible at painting, don't want to paint

Playing with w/ a grey tide isn't that bad, anon. It just sucks if you don't paint because then you can't enter any premier events.

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>>47393808
>Leadbelcher coat
>Nuln oil wash
>runefang steel highlight
>Blue glaze until desired darkness

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>>47393871
easier to see on this

>>47393871
>>47393913
Oh, thanks.

Guess I'll be basecoating the entire model with leadbelcher.

>>47393924
It's about 7-8 glazes to get that dark and you have to let each layer dry before the next or it fucks up.

>>47393310
None today, primarily because shitposting aside, sponsons are near useless in modern AFV doctrine. AFV's have gone from being linebreakers used to maximize conventional infantry assaults as mobile firepoints (like they were in WWI, when sponsons were useful) to pseudo-cavalry that operate in squadrons supported by either aircraft or armored infantry.

That said, the Leman Russ is often called upon to act in a linebreaker strongpoint role in the 40K universe, so sponsons can sometimes be a legitimate tool in their arsenal.

>>47393719
Neat. That is a really sweet color scheme as well.

>>47392988
>http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-40k-Astra-Militarum-Imperial-Guard-Painted-Cadian-Army-/291750445442?hash=item43edae8182:g:qfoAAOSwZtJW9VKd
What about this?

>>47393515
Make it Alpha Legion

>>47393833
Ffs man, at least prime the things so i don't have to stare at greys

prospective tau player here (dont own any 40k stuff yet but looking into it pretty seriously now)

what is /tg/s opinions on painting an army based on established lore/official paint schemes? i dont really have the imagination to make my own scheme and i quite like the look of the farsight enclave colour scheme (red with black) i suppose it is comparable to painting a space marine Ultramarine army or Cadian IG army.

I Know lots of people like the idea of having a much more personalised army but i feel like having an army i like the look of is a bit more important.

also there are lots of guides on how to paint these schemes and i wouldnt know what colours to use or how to layer otherwise.

>>47394008
900 for 3 dudes and a tank? You can get 4 knights and terrain for that price and still have money left over for paint

>>47394091
Just paint it well.
bitch

>>47394091
If you want your army to look similar to an established paint scheme, that's your call. If it looks good, people won't really complain, unless you're playing ultramarines

>>47394056
GW white sucks and I want to paint my Tau white (not quite like the Vior'la scheme with the red details). White is also extremely difficult to get right.

>>47394091
Some people go for the "My dudes" feel and come up with a history for the army and eerything, some just paint to match existing schemes, none are especially frowned upon or celebrated.

There are painting tutorials everywhere, try Youtube.

>>47394107
it's a 1500 point army painted like a king do you not read the description?

>>47394147
So don't use GW White, silly.

>>47394167
so what brand white do I use then?!

>>47394147
I know this pain.

>>47394193
Wouldn't know, I prime in black.

>>47394209
Maybe I should just paint a less difficult scheme. For a Fire Warrior for example, I gotta base in white, do the trousers in black, do something to get black in all the cracks and seams of the armor so that the armor is black and white.

Combined Arms Detachment:

HQ:
>Command Squad (4x Melta, Astropath, Vox Caster) - 130

Troops:
>Veterans (2x Melta, Vox Caster) - 85
[Chimera (Autocannon)] - 70

>Veterans (2x Melta, Vox Caster) - 85
[Chimera (Autocannon)] - 70

Fast Attack:
>Hellhound - 125

>Vendetta - 170

Heavy Support:
>Leman Russ Exterminator (Multimelta Sponsons, Lascannon) - 160

>Leman Russ Exterminator (Multimelta Sponsons, Lascannon) - 160

Fortification:
>Aegis Defence Line (Quad Gun) - 100

Total: 1155

+++Emperor's Wrath Artillery Platoon+++

>Command Squad (Volkov's Cane) - 60
[Chimera (Autocannon)] - 70

>2x Wyvern - 130

>Basilisk - 125

>Manticore - 170

>Techpriest Enginseer - 40

Total: 595

Grand Total: 1750pts

Thoughts?

>>47394140
do people explicitly dislike Ultramarine painted armies? i can understand if it every new space marine player does it so it reeks of unoriginality or is there a different reason?

friends brother has an Ultramarine army but admittedly it is painted terribly, and strikingly so.

>>47394346
Ultrasmurfs are propably the most common starter army and one of the most common armies in general, everyone and their brother has one so it gets a bit dull when the Blue Boys are everywhere.

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>>47394346
I simply just don't like Ultramarines. Not sure about anyone else though.

I will admit that their color scheme isn't bad, but it won't make me like them.

Knights of Dorn, however, now that's a color scheme I can get behind, both the new one (pic related), and their old Ice Cream Marine one.

>>47394273
i saw someone paint tau firewarriors on youtube and they just did a nuln oil wash to get all the nooks and crannies and crevices nice and dark rather than painting it on, especially if youre talking about like the tiny gaps on the armor plates and everything.

>>47394396
I am talking about that. I did a nuln oil wash and it turned out miserable. The whole dude is about the same color as the unpainted plastic now and I haven't gotten around to buying Simple Green to rid of it and start over. I did paint them on for my first 12 fire warriors and they look okay from a distance.

>>47394424
You're just supposed to apply the wash directly to the desired areas, cleaning up with another layer of white. Don't just slather it all over everything like most washings.

Just put a little on the brush and trace it into the lines, and along the edges where plates overlap. Like you might do with a black pen.

>>47394516
Hmm, I didn't know that. Thanks...

http://www.youtubemultiplier.com/55da34c42f2df-40kwarambiencesounds.php

Cadian-lullaby-holotape

>>47394371
What about schemes like Storm Wardens? Does the silver do enough to set off the "ugh, blue" mentality?

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>>47394744
Storm Wardens are awesome because they are Space Scotland.

>>47394793
Word, was planning on painting them.

Any suggestions on how to represent Tempest Blades?

>>47394862
'Fraid not, sorry.

What chapter tactics are you going to use for them anyways?

1500 always feels like such an odd number when making a list. It never really feels quite right, like its too many points or too little, its too big to be a proper special ops force but too small to be a full sized excursion.

>>47394921
what do you prefer?

>>47394339
I don't think 4 meltas in the command squad works if they don't have a metal box to get to the enemy. I like to use them with a lascannon and a master of ordnance, or some plasmas, for the longer range. They are too squishy to send into the fray, otherwise.

other than that, the list sounds solid, I'd play it if I had the artillery models.

If an independent character has a retinue can he still join a unit?

If my tech marine has servitors can he still join a squad of tac marines?

>>47394339
Works if the one command squad is in the vendetta

>>47395028
Yes, as far as I know

>>47394921
I agree, when I started playing 7th I started with 1500, my friends and i got pretty sick pretty soon when we couldn't build the cool army combinations we wanted with the limit, so we upped to 2000 pretty soon after.

>>47394921
1500 is perfect though

>>47393724
Are you me? I even keep converting models (albeit simple ones because i cant get greenstuff except by mail) and then hate myself for not basing them

>>47394910
I'm not sure, actually. Hadn't thought about that... I do quite like how useful Imperial Fists tactics are against my meta but I don't think they work well with the Wardens.

Hey /tg/, there's something that bothers me about the people at my shop. You see there are three types of people, we dont have any outrageous WAAC fags or anything.
The first type are not that interested much in games just painting and modelling. They sell finished projects to fund new ones, fair enough.

The second type pick one army and build on it and never change it (usually because we're poorfags). Our armies are painted and we really cherish and develop them.

The last type is what's bothering me. These guys obsessively buy and collect new models, every other week they have a new army. They spend staggering amounts of money on buying new armies but they never paint them or play games with them. I've seen guys drop money on a new army, 2 raiders, 2 venoms, 20 wytches, 20 warriors, scourges and so on. They spend a week building it, they buy the codex and we have one game only for them to buy a new army next week and the Deldar never to be seen again.

This weekend I brought this up and asked what they do with their armies. one of the wealthier of the group, one with a reputation for large purchases, showed me a picture on his phone.
It was a walk-in closet with what must be at least 1000 models or more in it, orks, imperial knights, marines, eldar, tau, tomb kings, brets, stormcast you name it he had it and all of it was grey plastic.
Just a sea of grey, so much bare plastic.
What must be several thousand pounds worth of mintures stuffed in a closet never to see a lick of paint or the light of day

How can people enjoy that /tg/?!

>>47395028
Yes, a retinue is a unit and the IC can leave the unit to join another. In this case, the servitors will be hit with mindlock though

>>47395260
I dunno. Addicted to making large purchases? Or they enjoy admiring their seas of armies, I know I would if I had piles of greys, I'd be astounded by the sheer size.

>>47395260
I know this feeling, my friend.

In my country it is even worse, cause we ain't got no Geedubs or FLGS. Ebay and second hand purchases are all we have.

And, even then, I know a good bunch of people with multiple armies, rare models and great stuff that never sees the light of day.

So quick lore question. Would tech marines be part of the DA Inner Circle or are they just too much of an outsider? Because I have this hilarious mental image of the Inner Circle having to get one every time they torture machines break down and the poor guy's just terribly confused "What's with all these prison cells we've got here? And what's that screaming in the distance?"

>>47395260
I mean I'm a bad painter so I don't mind my grey models but I TRY to paint them before buying new ones.

>>47395260
I dont know, but its clearly a subset of people in this hobby as I have seen that as well. Just people that buy an army in one go and never paint it, sometimes even selling the grey minis because they need money or wont ever paint them or just lost interest in 40k. I have no idea why they buy in such large ammounts.

>Fought Necrons player for the first time yesterday
>1500 point, using KDK
>Shocking amount of my army actually survives long enough to get in melee
>Concede bottom of turn 3 after losing every single assault and only killing a grand total of two models
Reanimation Protocols is such horseshit.

>>47395260
I'm the second type. As for the plastic crack addicts, I think they just see something they like and must immediately have it like a child.

Why do lootas suck so much now.
>turn 1, lootas in cover
>always get focused on to death
>lose half squad before they do anything.
I'm seriously considering switching 10 lootas for a Looted wagon in my mech ork list, sound like a good idea?
Mostly got battlewagons trukks and buggies right now

>>47395445
Trying to shoot them was your first mistake
Bayonets or go home
Nercons aren't hard if you have melee elements to your force

>>47395260
>WAAC fags
What's a WAAC?

(Sorry, I'm still kinda new)

>>47395445
>not instant death smacking necrons
>complaining about RP on an online Burmese Waxwork Catalogue

>>47395583
Mirin that reading comprehension m8

>>47395590
Win At All Costs.

Basically faggots who make extremely cheesy lists.

>>47395590
win at all costs

>>47395603
Instant death smacking a Necron decurion with a cryptek is still a 4+ RP, m8.

>>47395445
Losing to necrons in melee? How?
They're, like, one of the few races that take fear tests and can be swept.

>>47395690
10 Leadership's odds of passing a fear test are still very good.

>>47395670
Just spam them with bloodletters.

>>47395603

>Last game against crons, 1500pts
>opponent had formations for 4+ RP, rerolling 1s near lord
>Bring Manticore, Vanilla Russ, Executioner, Punisher Pask, shield-bullgryns with a priest and biomancy psyker
>he brings warrior mobs, Monolith, an AV13 walker, T5 jump units and jet bikes
>Manticore gets to fire all 4 missiles, Battle tank hits with 4/5 pie-plates
>still lose cos he rolled high for all his RPs

>>47393871
oh, so that's how to put glazes to work. nice anon

>>47395718
Fear?
You're counting on fear in melee?
Line up to be executed guardsmen, I rely on my power axes, commisars and meat shields to win melee.
You're an embarrassment.

>>47395718
Is give you advice but I don't know shit about daemon kin, I just play regular daemons.

I once managed to stack a -4 leadership penalty for fear tests on them and slapped their lord with the D.

>>47395787
I've been building up my regular demon list slowly and that's about the same conclusion I reached for how to play Necrons with what I own. Reduce their leadership, dominate the psychic phase, psychic scream, beef up the Dthirster with True Names/Cursed Earth/Precognition/et. al.

Really hoping the Tzeentch daemonkin rumors amount to something. I'd like to pick up a Lord of Change but the current model is such shit that shelling out for the Forge World model actually seems appealing.

>>47395757
Necrons are the highest tier race in the fluff so I guess that's fitting.

How cool does a Ork Waaagh that imitates the Dark Angels sound?

>Their Nobs are called the Deffwing, and wear bone-white 'eavy armor and Mega Armor.
>They have a large cadre of Warbikers, Wartrakks and Deffkoptas

>>47395881
*Forewarning. Not Precognition.

>>47395926
Used to be able to do this with the old Codex

>>47395906
what do you mean highest tier?

>>47396199
They basically just need to finish their breakfast and they would have the galaxy conquered before lunch.

>>47395926
Would be cooler with a non-shit legion

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Tried to do this over survey monkey but 4chan (probably wisely) thinks it's spam.

I am trying to kickstart a 4chan set of house rules to fix the game we all love so much.

Your response is greatly appreciated.

>>47396231
>finish their breakfast
so your statement relies upon the storyline being progressed meaningfully?

>>47392988
The paint is really nice, but you can get an army 3 times that size for the same money with 30% worse paint. Unless you are a richfag /wip/ fetishist, I'd pass.

>>47396231
>this is what necron players actually think

>>47393833
Your opponents all secretly hate playing you.

>>47396484
>implying it's not true
Anon, have you forgotten that everything the necron's have so far isn't even their most advanced or impressive stuff?

>>47396514
I bet that stuff don't even work no more

>>47394091
This approach actually makes it easier to get painted models second hand that will look good with your force.

So I'm going to be joining an escalation game league thing for people wanted to get into 40k or start a new army, staring the 'get started kit' or similar and adding on.

I chose Guard, not because I like guard that much, but I've been thinking of getting into 30k and the Solar Auxilia is the army I like the most.

So after the get started kit what models should I be looking into that are good in smaller scale IG and can either go into Solar Auxila, as reasonable proxies or bits for good conversions?
Russes are obvious, but I don't want to just buy Russes.

>>47396498
probably. The Marine and Chaos players tend to abhor Tau because they're Tau. All of the lack of paint hate is just extra.

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>>47396514
shit half them arent even awake yet. Only Necron Master Race can save the galaxy

>>47396514
and the tau keep coming up with new stuff that can defeat everything, the next Black Crusade will conquer the galaxy, and the main body of the tyrannids hasn't even gotten to the galaxy yet and will overwhelm everything.
Orcs will survive anything and enjoy fighting whatever shoes up.

Everybody is fluffed as going to win except eldar and imperium.

What army in 40k contains the most bones.

>>47396639
tyranids

>>47396358
Do you consider Tempestus, Nuns with Guns, Inquisition to not exist?

>>47395583
This is correct. Shooting them is a waste of time mostly. They're not fearless, so charging them with MCs or bikes is your best bet. If you can win combat by 3 or 4, they are easily swept.

>>47395583
Of course, you have to figure out what to do about the wraiths first...

>>47395757
Sounds like a super-fun game.

IG/Cron is a nice matchup.

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Dear necronanons, what is your weakness? Leadership? Psykers? Reclamation legion and new reanimation protocols are rough.

Also whose bright idea was it to remove the flavor of reanimating the space skeletons by making it a saving throw instead of an end of phase thing? Because I hate them.

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>>47396358
The game is fun. What's the fucking problem?

>>47396729
Guys at my FLGS say to throw as much ID at them as possible.

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>>47396729
Believe it or not, crons really aren't that punchy. Outside of Wraiths, lychguard and Praetorians, there is really not a ton of killing power in the dex.

You're not going to table a cron force, so focus on objectives and actually winning the game. Don't put your army at risk.

Almost all shooting is 24"

If there is a Canoptik harvest, kill the Spyders immediately, if possible.

The decurion does not give objective secured. Nor does it allow warlord trait re-rolls.

That's all I got.

>>47396729
play the objective game. They're slow and the detachment means they have no obsec. Their shooting isn't good enough to murder all your things.

Unless you are playing pure killpoints take your pyrrhic victory

>>47395583
>friendly 1850 tournament, 2nd match, nids vs crons
>crons guy brings a competitive list
>i bring a fluffy melee list with a swarmlord
>3 wraiths get into CC with swarmy
>all my attacks hit
>3 of them wound, no 6s though
>he fails all the saves
>he only removes 1 model
>explain to him that bonesabres have instant death
>"no boneswords only have instant death on 6s here i'll call my dad he plays tyranids"
>his dad blatantly lies
>just let him have it
>continues to fudge rules, dont say anything because he has a history of getting people kicked out

>>47396887
i accidentally captcha'd rip
i forget where i was going with this, basically a lot of necron players are fucking cheaters locally and melee elements dont help because they're all autists about small shit

>>47396887
You should have done what any mature adult would do.

throatpunch

>>47396887
Consume his biomass.

>>47396887
>calls his dad
what the fuck is he 12?

>>47396887
Pity, Nids have a decent match up against non WAAC crons.

>>47396943
>>47396993
duly noted

>>47397001
15 actually, apparently he was on a "40 win streak," wonder why

>>47396887

Are they so blind that they can't read a rule book?

>>47397043
>15 actually
Not much of a reader, is he?

>>47396887
>Not opening your codex and showing him
BRUH

>>47396887
What part of "Pull your codex out and show him the rule" did you forget?
Also how to fuck can a little shit like that get others kicked out of a store? Does he rampage in such a way that makes it impossible to tell which of you two is the problem?

>>47397080
the stupid fuck thought i had a tyrant with dual boneswords, despite me saying swarmlord and bonesabres and literally showing him the rules in the codex

>>47397093
>Does he rampage in such a way that makes it impossible to tell which of you two is the problem?
essentially, that and the owners are partial to him because his dad makes their terrain
I don't go there anymore

this might be an odd question but is it worth always having tau pathfinders in smaller separate squads so you can resolve markerlight hits in smaller groups so if you get lucky and get all the markerlights you want on a particular unit you just move onto next squad and target rather than dumping all your potential hits onto one target?

>>47397043
>>47397125
Go back, consume his biomass, and then start on his dad's.

Should I leave my Dark Eldar BDSM boats without Pilots so I can have a few extra Kabalites?

>>47397043
is it just me or do little cunts always play either marines, tau, or necrons.

>>47396887
>fluffy melee list with Swarmlord.
You. I like you.

Planning on starting 'nids once I finish expanding my IG and paint all of them. I wish to make a Melee 'nidzilla list with the Swarmlord leading them. Is this at least semi-viable?

>>47397224
>dumb people play the 3 easiest armies

I wonder why

>>47397125
>not sticking to your guns
he knew what you said and played dumb. you let him get away with passive aggressive bs. don't play him next time or if you're in a tournament call the host on his dumbass.

i gotta question your age if you're letting someone get away with this sort of fuckery

>>47397174
Its pretty much always better to have more and smaller squads.

>>47397224
know a total cunt who plays demons. so just you.
Never trust anecdotal evidence as the primary support for a general observation.

>>47397284
So you're saying that most kids play all races evenly then. lol.

>>47397251
honestly just play what you think is fun and you might win every once in awhile

>>47397260
i brought it up to the host among some other bs i had to deal with from him but the host took his side because they value the terrain his dad makes more than their customers, now only WAACfags and new players go there

also I prefer to avoid confrontation most of the time if it can be avoided, this wasn't one of those situations though

>>47397339
there might be some trends, but in most areas you play group will be so small that you should expect high variance (for statistics anything under 40 is 'small', under 20 is extremely small).

So what you can't reliably use your own area's population as a representative of the total population, and certainly not of other smaller populations.

Having said all that, marines make up such a large portion of the total population of players that even with high local variance from mean distribution you should expect a larger amount of marine players.

>>47396554
The command squad kits are pretty good, plenty of bits.

Also, the militarpum temispestimus kit for dudes with extra armour and stuff.

Although, the solar auxilia has a type of organization that doesn't really match the models for guard, like squads where everyone has a special weapon

>>47397412
sounds gay bro. i'd call them all out on their bs and just never go back instead of dealing with that

>>47397532
yeah i haven't been there in months

Do jet pack infantry get to move 12" like jump infantry?

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I came up with a pure Dark Eldar 1850 list, can I get some feedback on it?

>Grotesquerie:
- 6 Grotesques
- 2 Aberrations w/Scissorhand
- 1 Haemonculus w/Scissorhand
- 2 Raiders w/Dark Lance

>Grotesquerie:
- 6 Grotesques
- 2 Aberrations w/Scissorhand
- 1 Haemonculus w/Scissorhand
- 2 Raiders, 1 w/Dark Lance

>1x Dark Eldar CAD:
- Archon w/Helm of Spite, Shadow Field, Haywire Grenades
- Succubus w/Armour of Misery, Archite Glaive, Haywire Grenades
- 2x 5 Kabalite Warriors in Venoms w/Splinter Cannon
- 2x Scourges w/4 Haywire Blasters
- Scourges w/4 Heat Lances

The list, or some variation of it, is so far undefeated. However I haven't actually tested it against someone who's swinging for the tourney circuit.

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>>47397251
I've played assault nids heavily for a couple of years now. Swarmy + CC fexes, venomthropes, and horms is my goto fluff list. You will have a ton of fun, particularly against marine players, because that's just such a fun matchup. You won't be "competitive" per-se but everybody will know they've been in a fight. You'll auto-lose to tau, mechanicus and elves.

>>47397554
No

>>47396623
>and the tau keep coming up with new stuff that can defeat everything, the next Black Crusade will conquer the galaxy
Tau are far too small to actually win, and the black crusades actually accomplishing anything is a retcon. Moreover, the 13th black crusade won't be able to do much, as while it did win cadia, that was a very very close victory, and abbadon's has no control over the space surrounding cadia.

You're right about the nids though, hence why the two factions most likely to win are the nids or 'cron, and orks are already at their win condition.

>>47397554
No

>>47397566
I dunno, those genestealer cults are pretty savage.

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>>47397567
>>47397583
>my mates been a cheating fuck this entire time

>>47397508
been looking and largely agree.
My plan for getting around the special weapon thing is just to make as many of those models as I can. when playing IG they get scattered among the squads like I have to, then for SA I put them together into their own squad, as their lasgun squads can't even have any special weapons.

I've got some plans to convert up some rapiers and maybe tarantulas, which should be enough to start with.

>>47397561
floating paleskin orks? I like it.

>>47397590
genestealer cults aren't technically tyranids in terms of putting a battle forged list together which is assholes

>>47397647
I no speaks the English good, but Genestealers are the fuckings, and anyone who disagrees is dildos.

>>47397566
>play mechanicus
>they only have one level of difficulty
>can't really tone done for fluffy/fun lists

i tend to just play stupid against people with fun lists. narrative fluff as i put it

>>47397616
Your mate is probably just another guy trying to get his rules straight. I've certainly been that guy before.

Maybe it's not us, just the GW rules organization?

>>47394371

I have actually never seen a well-painted Ultramarine army outside of a GW store display case.

>>47397590
No. No they are not.

3 models who get a first turn assault, and a bunch of foot slogging dudes who will never live to rend anything with rending claws. All for 600 points.

>>47396729
I am a Necron player, so based on what irks me: we have no real counter to reroll 2+ deathstars, as most Necron weapons are high AP medium strength. Our answers are Wraiths hoping for a 6 to wound, expensive heavy destroyers, and Praetorians, neither is a great solution.

Cheap power swords kill anything but Wraiths and Lychguard with ease. Deathcult assassins make Necrons cry.

Necron vehicles are fragile and overcosted, and any list reliant on them for movement is easy to shut down.

Only Wraiths, scarabs, Destroyers and Praetorians are fast as far as none-vehicles go. Of those Wraiths and Destroyers are actually good, and they are expensive multiwound models ripe for instant death.

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>>47397664
I might have a bit of residual salt since i play orks. Between Waaaghs and 'ere' we go i can sorta catch him but its been fucking suffering let me tell you.

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>>47397508
>temispestimus

>>47397705
OTOH they are amazing looking, and you can sprinkle some into an army to justify Nid and Imp Guard allies. Genestealers backed by tanks.

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>>47396657
>They're not fearless

>mfw I just looked through the necron codex and realized my last opponent "mis-remembered" just about everything about his army.

>>47397186

I don't understand this question.
You get 10 models capacity on Raiders, 5 on Venoms. The pilots/gunners don't count as infantry models.

>>47397799
Modelling them. As in, use the model supplied as an extra Kabalite instead of using him to sit on the ship as a pilot.

>>47397617
That works, actually. I have blob guard and enough special weapons to run 2 or 3 full squads easily.

Flamers are flamers, you just gotta find a good model to represent volkite chargers.

>>47397728
The Milifartum Cramfestus

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>>47394339

>HQ
4x melta is the way to go, but they need to be in a chimera

ditch the vox caster you dont need it. Why? All your infantry should be in vehicles where they dont need to make leadership tests. SAve some points.

>Troops
Meltas good, ditch vox

Autocannons? They are good, but not in these squads. You will either be moving your vehicles around to exploit cover or get into optimum melta range, autocannon wont get any use. Ditch it. When it comes to AM infantry, you want to be using all your weapons. Taking a heavy weapon like an AC and short range assaults like meltas means one or the other isnt getting used.

>Fast Attack
Hellhounds are not good unless you know you are up against an army not in power armor. Devil dog is better, another russ, psyker, or kurov's aquila is better than that.

Vendetta is fine

>Heavy
Exterminators suck, and you put sponsons on them which dont work with your turret weapon well. Because Russ are now inefficient for antitank, rely on infantry meltas for tank busting and switch exterminator with punisher or executioner (with kurov's aquila)

>Fort
I thought ADL was only 50 points?

Final thoughts: drop hellhound replace with more melta vets. Swap out Exterminator for different russ model.

I dont know about the newer formations, so cant comment on artillery but I know without special rules they all suck except for wyvern.

>>47397628
My Achilles heel is really I've never been challenged with it. Anyone I bring it against is just flustered on turn 1 because they realize that 4 boats of whoop-ass are in their face and they don't have enough shooting to kill *all* of the T5 monsters inside before they get the charge off. Then I charge, absorb some shooting, and begin disassembling their army piece by piece while my warriors zoom around on objectives like the happy little assgrabbers they are.

I know for a fact Knights will rip me a new one unless I'm lucky to get +1 Toughness on my formation bonus, and even then I'll probably be stomped out before my Rending and Haywire kills the Knight in close combat, but I can't win 'em all.

>>47397904
>exterminators suck
i swear by them. However putting meltas with them does suck. I would however vouche for Plasma Sponsons for days

>>47397561
On the one hand, I like that you're using Scourges, and taking the cool wargear on your HQs.

On the other hand, I hate that DE have to resort to CAD and formation dickery to even come up with a 'tournament' level list.

Them's the breaks when your dedicated assault units are literally the worst assault unit in the entire game right now and gunboat kablaites have been FAQed out of viability.

Personally, I'm just back to running MSU Venom spam, at least it's kind of fluffy.

>>47397904
>Exterminators suck.
You Sir, have no sense of taste for the best LR variant.

He's got the same loadout as I have on mine too.

>>47397825

Ah. Nah, I think the gunners and steersman are kind of cool. I also kind of like the ones that 'hang' off the hull, has a Mad Max vibe to it.

It's your army though, so if you want to convert them on bases go for it. Kabalites are kind of cheap $$ wise though.

>>47398006
True. I didn't add the gunners on the sponsons and front because I KNOW they'd be a pain to paint. I may do the hangers.

>>47397720
And yet youre still top teir
So please come back when youre 12th teir cause you can be countered by a single word: Flamers

>>47397720
Nobody feels bad for you.

And your post is correct.

Except for wraiths being ripe for instant death. That is complete cry-me-a-river bullshit. 3++ followed by 5+RP against S10. BooHoo. If only my nids had those problems.

>>47397938

>vouching for junk
You have to keep in mind the opportunity cost of every unit you take. The autocannon is good vs medium vehicles, I admit, but it's not worth the points you pay to put it on a Russ. Punisher is better against all infantry types, light vehicles, and flyers. Against medium and heavy vehicles, you should be using melta spam, which is by far a better points investment than tanks are for that purpose.

As for the plasma on tanks, the only time you should take it is when you have Kurov's Aquila on your CCS, and that CCS is in a chimera that sits behind your plasma tanks. The 6" bubble lets you reroll the 1s for overheating so you don't lose hull points. If you don't do this, you are wasting points on tanks that blow themselves up for your opponent. If you do, Executioner plasma spam will wreck anything short of armor 13 vehicles and all infantry types, even in cover.

>When up against AV 13 and 14, use cheap melta infantry

>when up against AV 10-12 and infantry, use tanks, chimeras, and artillery

>>47397724
Hang in, orkbro. Find some more fun dudes to play with. I've got a game on Tue against Orks and am scheming up an all-genestealer army.

>>47398004

They are cool, but they aren't good. By all means, forge your narrative if that's what you like, I'm just telling you you get more mileage for the points with a punisher or executioner.

You really want to take a 200+ point unit to bust rhinos and dreadnaughts with when a 20 point melta can do it instead? Why not take an executioner for a few more points and get 5 str 7 blasts that also fuck up all infantry?

>>47396865
>>47396885
Aha. Yeah. I think a killpoints game might just be unwinnable. The vehicles are strong but as >>47397720 says, definitely killable. It's just the infantry that's troublesome to me.

Necrons are surprisingly not shit in melee though. Just low initiative tactical marines who never die.

>>47398052
Please feel free to read what I was responding to, which was a request for Necron players to chime in on how to beat them. After that, you can go ahead and fuck off.

>>47398138
I like them because they're the second cheapest LR variant, and since they're not Ordnance, you can put non-HBolters on them that can actually be used as non-snapshotting weapons.

The lascannon on the hull allows for some extra anti-armor ability, and whatever you put for the sponsons allow for more dakka. Multimelta sponsons allow for (cheaper than plas) even more anti-armor while having it end up the same price as a regular unupgraded LR battletank. Adding Plasma sponsons just make it even better, and giving it all HBolters makes it into a poor-man's Punisher.

Plus they look cool.

But yeah, I see where you're coming from.

>>47397920

Respectfully, nobody is sweating the kabalites in the venoms.

I play fast assault-armies and the current shooting meta is usually taken by surprise when you are assaulting 3 units on turn 2. Review all the transport and fast vehicles rules, because they are complex and easy to miss stuff. you can't disembark anybody if you skim more than 6". I assume you are flatting everything out on t1 and enjoying a 3+ jink as everybody tries to explode your floating box.

I have a buddy who runs similar stuff with the slith.

A good counter to this is to surround your transport and pop it. if you can't deploy the models, they are removed. if anybody has a unit of jump infantry around, this is probably workable against you.

You'll struggle with armies that employ a lot of transports, since it's impossible to pop the transport and then assault what's in it on the same turn. You'll beat most causal lists with ease.

But it's a nice list, and probably a lot of fun to play. 8/10

>>47398253
>>47398138

I like to put them on the tank commander to best utilize the BS4. If it's Pask it's even better, because of Rending + reroll to armour penetration

>>47397964
Everyone sees the Venoms coming. I could pair them with some Reavers for S6 Rending HoW shenanigans but that's basically another version of this list approached from a different angle.

The Grotesques are something no one sees coming. If someone pulls out the Haemonculus Covens dex they expect the Corpsetheif Claw, which is good, but I like this too. They're high strength, high toughness, poisoned, ID on 6s, and all the characters have Rending. They're downright savage to someone not familiar with them and their stat block.

>>47397964
Check out the corpse-thief formation. It is amazing for tournament play.

>>47397904
The voxes are meant to call in the artillery shots - if you have a vox at 18'' from the target the formation scatters one less D6 or something

>>47398080
According to GW FAQ Preferred Enemy no longer confers the right to reroll gets hot on blast weapons.

>>47395590
Most of the acronyms in circulation are on 1d4chan as well, if you don't understand stuff

>>47397876
>represent volkite chargers
I'll probably use plasma guns. maybe kitbash, maybe just paint and proxy.

>>47395926

That sounds pretty neato burrito

>>47397720
I wouldn't call a 13/13/11 until penned transport that can jink overcosted.

>>47398261
The Kabalites are just there for ob-sec. They're there to grab objectives and pelt squishy stuff when the opportunity arises, not heavy lifting. That's for the Grots.

I am fully aware of the dangers of getting surrounded when my boat pops and the rules regarding transports. Turn 1 I push board edges, going to surround the enemy. I always pre-measure 12" away from enemy models if I take the first turn in case they try to charge the boat and surround it. I also don't take a 3+ jink, the Night Shields on the disposable Raiders are useless, and exploding boats actually works to my benefit since it's easy to fit 4-6 small models in the footprint of a Raider.

Enemies who use a lot of transports will be finicky, but that's what the deep-striking Scourges are for. They're not a magic bullet but they'll take the edge off any armor my Grots can't handle.

And yes it's insanely fun to play. About as fun as taking a baseball bat to a china shop.

>>47396729

Not a Necron player, but I have beaten decurion with AM before. The trick, I've found, is not to try to kill them, because no amount of firepower you (as AM) can bring will wipe out a competent player. You can, however, outlast him.

I took a list that included 150 infantry (2 platoons, 1 conscript platoon), all with priests AND psykers, plus a wyvern, flyer, HQ, and a single plasma russ with a camo net hiding in cover with a 3+ save.

Hide all infantry in cover. If he closes distance, cast prescience/rending psyker power on your platoons and give them FRFSRF for 150 twin-linked preferred enemy shots. You wont kill them, but they will back off out of rapid fire range. If he assaults, you tarpit him for the entire game with fearless troops.

Repeat for 4 turns.

As the game is ending, flood the board with scoring units and use flyer/artillery to contest backfield ones.

Necron weakness if their ability to kill quickly doesnt scale with their ability to soak damage, and they have few Obsec units. Spam obsec troops and just bodypile to victory.

>>47398362
The tempestus hot-shot volley gun looks quite a bit like the volkite charger, check it out

>>47398322

Really? They took time out of their busy schedule making Xenos more OP to nerf one of the few things AM had going for them, huh? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I revise my statement, plasma on tanks suck.Go with punishers or just skip them entirely and take more infantry.

>>47398442
I remember reading somewhere a full plasma Executioner glances itself to death with the Gets Hot in about 5 turns, on average.

>>47398384
Good move DS the scourges -> a good player would kill them first. That's pretty much what you have to kill transports. Better hope they show up on time and don't fuck up. Also, you are going to cry salt tears when they snuff it because those guys are stupid expensive and super-squishy.

If we are talking competitive, I would consider ditching the scourges and take some ravegers with the S8AP2 Lancing dohickey.

>>47398442
You underestimate the power of 4 TL autocannons with a lascannon and 2 multimelta sponsons.

All for 160 points.

>>47398379
Yeah, they aren't nearly as good after FAQ, but they're still worth taking.

>>47398422
true.
I'll probably wind up using both to make up the numbers, but we'll see as I start making up the units.

It is weird looking at how the Russes are different between the two armies. SA are more expensive, but come with some upgrades. And the relative prices of the guns differ quite a bit.
But I plan to magnetize like crazy.

>>47398279

Or tank a pask punisher and get 29 potential rending shots on a platform you can cast twinlinked/rending on with a psyker.

Punisher is better at everything except medium vehicles, and for them you want to be using meltas anyway. Your call if you love it, Im just saying in my experience the punisher is better hands down for the points. It even swats flyers down with that many shots, snapshooting or no.

>>47398462
Scourges are squishy and get focused on like they were Donald fucking Trump but Ravagers tend to get the hammer dropped on them as well. Now granted I can usually park them in ruins for a 3+ cover save, so I might just do that, but when that haywire and melta land on point, my god, things get savage.

>>47398485
I'm not exactly an expert in the details of the Necron codex, what details of it were hit by the FAQ?

>>47398493
To be perfectly honest with you, I only use the Exterminator cause I haven't the turret model for the Punisher

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>>47398303
>The voxes are meant to call in the artillery shots - if you have a vox at 18'' from the target the formation scatters one less D6 or something

Sauce?

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I got the Angels of Death book and some of the formations seem really fun but /tg/ makes it sound like using any of it makes me the greatest WAAC thunder cunt to set foot on the crust of holy Terra.

Stormlance and skyspammer annihilation force seem like so much fun, as does devastators with grav cannons, solely because I've always wanted to try getting more mileage out of the tactical marines that make up most of my force since I was a kid with only what starter kits I have gotten for christmas in 4th edition. They've lost the vast majority of their games because I was 15 when I actually started playing and had no idea what I was doing, and an army of mostly tacticals isn't wasn't gonna impress anyone during 4th-6th edition, especially not when lacking transports because I didn't have the money to augment the starter force I got one christmas and later two black reach kits, and in general buying warhammer at all was something that happened once a year. Now after abandoning them in favour of guard for a while, I've been having an itch to get them back in action as more than just a small attachment to my guard every now and then, and I've actually won most games so far now that they have transports(all two of them, and quite convincingly), despite the majority of them performing like guardsmen. Now I wanna do like all my friends and look up all the weird shit I can find and pull all kinds of weird tricks out of my sleeve, I've always just been the guy who tossed a bunch of dudes with guns onto the table and started rolling dice until either mine or their dudes were dead.

So anyway, I guess what I'm asking is how many tricks I could pull from this book before I should start to feel bad? I'll probably mostly end up fighting daemons+CSM or SoB+Inq or eldar(no knights) and orks or SW.

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>>47398536
for you

>>47398507
Lance weapons ignore quantum shielding and jinking affecting passengers.

>>47398565
What is this from? I just have the base codex at the moment.

>>47398565
>dat formation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFnYHja6R0U

>>47398616
Mont'Ka

What's best for transporting some deathwing knights I want to get. Land raider crusader or Redeemer?

>>47398616
The Mont'ka campaign book that introduced a Cadian decurion thingie.
http://imgur.com/a/WGbXH
Here's the full thing

>>47398253

>2nd cheapest LR

So? As I said, they are worse than the punisher at everything except the things you should be using infantry for anyway. You saved points on a bad unit, whoopity-do.

Lascannons are not good in AM. They are retarded expensive for a weapon that only hits 3x per game on average assuming you shoot every single turn and don't die before the game is over. Then, one of those will fail to pen at least. You bought maybe 2 HP off another vehicle with it...OR, take a 15 point melta on a 5 point guy and potentially blow the ENTIRE vehicle up, not 1-2 HP. Your choice.

Melta sponsons can go on everything, they arent an argument for the Exterminator. Even so, using your Russ to close within 12" of a land raider and try to blow it up is a poor use of points. Just throw cheap melta squads at it instead.

Theorycrafting time:
>Melta russ moves up to Land Raider. Meltas 2 shots. Hits with 1. MAYBE blows it up. Maybe. Guys jump out. They assault Russ, it's dead.

>Meltavets in chimera roll up to raider. Melta from fire points with 4 shots. 2 hit, twice as likely to blow up tank. Marines jump out on their turn, assault chimera. Ohnoes my 60 point vehicle and maybe a few 5 point monkeys. Your turn, you melta them.

So, this is confusing the hell out of me. Is the Tarauntula Hyperios Missile Launcher out of print?

Cause Forgeworld is only selling something called the "space marine air defense missile launcher".

I looked at something that was supposed to be an "update" that lists them as static emplacements, which is confusing cause i thought the whole point of tarauntula platforms was that they could move.

Also, i think the update changes their point costs.

>>47398592
Okay...I don't get Lance, so I'm still stuck with having to land at least two markerlights to ignore the Jink.

>>47398642
I see what you mean, but the meltagun is Assault 1, so it'd be 2 shots from the 2 firepoints.

Also, it costs 10 points, not 15.

And the melta russ isn't meant to go near and try to blow it up, but having 2 extra shots that can penetrate the same kinda target (medium vehicles) at 24''. If you manage to get close enough to activate the melta rule, Great, but that's not the main goal here.

>>47398642
I'm telling you right now to stop poking fun at my bad logic!

>>47398642
>lascannon blow up vs meltagun blow up
You do realize that it's only 17% more likely to blow up the vehicle than the meltagun?
and it's easier to get the lascannon shot off than the meltagun.

You've got a point about the whole cost of a lascannon on a tank, but straight lascannon to meltagun you're being a bit unlikely.

>>47398477

I really dont. Again, the sponsons and hull weapon can go on any tank, they arent a valid reason to take the exterminator. Stop making that argument. This is about the turret weapon, and it's junk compared to 20 STR 5 shots.

Those shots aren't TL, but it doesnt matter because the psyker you should have in your list cast prescience on it anyway. Those shots cant hurt medium vehicles but it doesnt matter, since you should use melta monkeys for that anyway. Those shots are better at everything else than 4 str 7 shots will ever be.

>>47398705
Its not like that's bad investment to kill a 105 point vehicle.

>>47398741
It isn't, but I'd rather my Riptide force re-animates on Warriors and Immortals. I've yet to play a Hammerhead against Necrons simply because I've never had the room for one in <1K games.

I always imagined a wyvern sounds like a nebelwerfer.

>>47398725
There's the superior range. 48 x 24''

>>47398776
You'd get more mileage in the long run without the ghost ark bringing D3 warriors back each turn.

>>47393431
>>47393457
>>47393531
>>47393604
Ok ya gits I was asking this earlier and I think I found the answer after reading through the books. Now I don't know if this will save orks or make them better but this may help. Please correct me if I am wrong, as I am seeking clarification.

So as we all already know in the ork supplement, if you form a great waagh band (yes I know its a lot of points with questionable formations) this will allow you to use waagh every turn including the first right?

Ghazy has his rules prophet of the waaagh and of gork and mork which make his super awesome waaagh. Giving him 2++, allowing MANZ to run and charge, and everything is fearless. Now so far I have not seen anything in both books that say "can use only once per game" it just says "anytime you call a waagh"

So if this is true does that mean that if you form a great waaagh band, using ghazys council, does that mean that this super powered waaagh takes effect every turn you call it?

is this correct?

>>47398801
Fair enough. The stats of the nova charged ion accelerator should be more than enough to blow a ghost ark to fuckin' bits. Pretty sure they're open topped, so a pen + a 5+ on the die should off it fine...

>>47398715

...what? You either meant the melta is 17% more likely than the lascannon or you misread my post, not sure which.

Lascannons are not worth their points anywhere in an AM list. You BS is too bad and the rules with hullpoints make them impotent. Meltas are the only reliable way to go against AV 13 and 14.

you need to make sure you are getting the most mileage out of every unit you field, and that means specializing them, not generalizing them. A tank with heavy bolters and a lascannon is a tank that either wasting heavy bolter shots on a vehicle it cant hurt or wasting a lascannon shot on infantry. Go one way or the other and focus on drilling that thing all game. You will get more points back.

That being said, the next step of logic is to recognize that in the current edition Russes just plain suck at blowing up medium+ vehicles for their points. Meltas are better, the end. The best unit you have for getting meltas on the field in reliable numbers is your infantry, which also happen to be obsec and can shoot out of vehicles.

So, use the better paper to cover the rock, and turn your tank into scissors. And if you are going scissors, get a GOOD pair of scissors, not an exterminator...unless you just plain love the old scissors, I cant argue against taste.

>>47398874
Once penned its just an opened topped rhino, so missiles can finish it off if the riptide doesn't.

>>47398797
This. You'd be able to fire both the Exterminator Autocannon and the Lascannon at the same time, and if it were in the Punisher's range, it could fire all of it's weapons at once as well.

Plus, iirc, the Punisher gatling can't hurt other LR variants due to having no AP? Though, I haven't looked at the vehucle rules in a while, most likely wrong.

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Are Crusader Squads better than Tactical Squads?

>>47398934
AP only matters for the damage table.

>>47398797

And the basilisk is what? 12ft? Why don't people just load up on basilisks?

Because the table is 4 ft wide, they start 1ft up, you start 6" up. You can move 6" per turn. Almost every army will come to you, and for those that don't 6" forward per turn is plenty. you don't need 4' range often enough for that to be a deciding factor.

>>47398967
Basilisks have a minimum range, unlike the units we have been discussing.

>>47398934

Why do people keep talking about sponsons like that means something? They go on every tank, it's not relevant for the exterminator being better at anything. I can fire the punisher's gatling and a lascannon, too, who cares?

>>47398941
In some ways. They can get 2 special weapons in a 5 man squad, and have some nice options aside from that, though they also lack the ability to combat squad.

>>47398941
I wouldn't say better but they have their advantages.

>>47398991

I know they do, I am illustrating a point. You very seldom need 4' range in this game - that table just isnt that big. The few times you do need it shooting diagonally are not relevant enough to justify it.

>>47399016
>>47399022
This might be a dumb question but can they be used in the gladius strike force? I'd love to be able to use a five man squad with double flamers/melta/plasma in a Razorback

>>47398924
Good point, duderino.

Is there anything the exterminator can do better than the punisher, though? Killing MCs?

>>47398462
I switched the list up for 2 Ravagers replacing the Haywire guys, since point for point they're more durable, flexible, and will probably get more work done. Keeping the 1 unit of Heat Lances though for that deep strike melta goodness. Had to remove the Dark Lances from the Raiders and the Helm of Spite as well, but that's including Night Shields on the Ravagers. The list looks more solid now I think, much more hefty. I have a definite back and front line.

>>47399054
No, they can't. And It's also not 2 special weapons, just a special and a heavy. The only difference in a tactical squad there is that the tactical squad needs 10 guys before it can get a special & heavy.

>>47398818
You are correct, though I don't recall whether ghaz can actually be taken in the formation that allows you.

>>47399026
It really depends on the situation, I often make use of the greater range available to have greater fields of fire and presence on the field.

It can pay off to be able to select a target that is further away, and the effect it has on the enemy that is aware of that gives you a nice edge.

>>47399000
I would only put sponsons on Ordnance Russ variants if only to delay the weapon destroyed result on the main weapon. And even then, I'd stop to consider it, because it's almost a waste of points on them.

That, and past 24" the Exterminator fires off 4 TL shots and 1 lascannon shot, while the Punisher only fires off 1 lascannon shot. At those distances the Exterminator does better simply because it can.

>>47399026
True enough.

>>47399059
It's 10 points cheaper, and has double the range. That's about it really.

>>47399016
>They can get 2 special weapons in a 5 man squad

I fucking wish, its 1 special+1heavy/power weapon in a 5 man squad, the sergeant is another source for power weapons.

>>47399054
>can they be used in the gladius strike force?

No, Black Templars cant use any 'decurion' unless you take tacticals and if you do take them then you might as well be playing another chapter.

>>47399077
>>47399123
gotcha. May just stick with Ultramarine tactics

>>47399059

Every tank is better at SOMETHING. tyranid warriors, maybe, since the AP 4 negates their save and they are expensive enough to be good targets. But you shouldn't be building a list against hings you MIGHT see, you build for what you will most likely see. What makes up most of the shit you fight? 3+ save, T4 armies with an AV 14 brick in the middle. If your tool sucks against this, you will suck more often than not.

The good news is that the punisher is not only good at killing 3+ armor save troops, it's good at killing something in every army out there. It swats down flyers, it mows down bugs, you has enough shots to saturate power armor. It has enough shots to glance rhinos to death. It's a better specialized unit - very good at these things and completely shitty at others - which is good, because you just cover the shitty things with units that suck against what punisher kills but excel against what punisher sucks at. Now your whole army is excellent at killing things, not just ok.

>>47399079
There is council of the waaagh, if I am not mistaken that means you can make him the warlord that way right?

>>47395338
The new codex said they're not. They can't be trusted because of their dual allegiance. They run the rock but apparently don't know about some parts of it.

>tfw there will never be a boxed game focused purely on Xenos
>tfw you'll never play as a captured Tau commander and his captured subordinates that has to fight off Dark Eldar captors and escape the Dark City of Commorragh
>tfw you'll never play Shas'O Run

>>47399214
xenos are supporting characters.

Would picking up the Imperial Guard Start Collecting box along with a box of Scions be a decent start for a Renegades & Heretics army?

I figure I can set them up with the Reaver devotion, use the commisar as a Demagogue, set up the infantry as a Command squad/vets, and have the Tank for support.

>>47399059
>>47399166
This is true but the point is this. Imagine an entire army of orks that are always fearless, MANZ can run and charge every turn as if they where not wearing MANZ armor, and ghazy always has a 2++.

>>47399214
>captured Tau commander

More like Aun'shi. He's still trapped in there I think.

I would love some sort of Dark Eldar/Tau box for a gladiator pit game, or an escape through the city streets. Doubly so if they had rules for the 3 other Tau castes as they follow Aun'shi out.

>>47399228
I've always figured that the best way to collect renegades and heretics would just be to play guard for ages then make the switch when you have enough models

>>47399229

And imagine an army of 3 imperial knights...what's your point?

The fact that there might be a list out there in which an inferior tool becomes more useful doesn't make it less useful than the good tool overall. We can play the this list/that list game all night, but most lists you will fight are comprised of units the punisher is better against. It's therefore the most rational choice by a wide margin.

If I knew I was fight an orc horse - which the punisher would STILL be better at, I'd also take hellhounds and eradicators, which I never do because they suck against everything in power armor.

>>47398080
>autocannon is good vs medium vehicles
and functions very well as an all-rounder after that. moderate AA? check. anti-infantry? check. throw some wounds on a fatty? check. instant death for t3? check. Range? check Cheap, tough tank your opponents'll underestimate? check

>punisher
wyverns are better vs infantry if you're worried about hordes. Outside of Pask they're terribly inefficient and overpriced.

>plasma, only time
losing a hull point every so often is still worth it. i occasionally run x3 exterminators with plasma and it's never really been an issue. it sucks and retarded that vehicles even have to deal with it sans a save but whatever.

>executioner with plasma
now you really are just asking to blow yourself up. however executioners are also one of the point efficient Russes BUT it also has the bad reputation of being a bullet magnet so opponents tend to want it dead fast.

Exterminators with plasma/lascannon are my go to choice and never disappoint me.

>>47399328

typos everywhere. I'm on a shit laptop with a worse wifi connection, and it's making it hard to proofread posts. Clarification:

The existence of a specific list in which a bad tool becomes good doesn't make it a good tool. It is only a good tool in that specific context. Given that this context is rare compared to the ones the good tool excels at, the good tool remains better.

>>47399338
This. This so much.

Though, I prefer melta over plasma on my Exterminators, if only because I respectfully fear Gets Hot!

>>47399328
>>47399371
As long as this list is legit I don't care really. No one at my FLGS even plays all knight lists. I was just trying to find out if this would actually work and be legal.

>>47399338
Vehicles do functionally have a save against gets hot.

>>47399338
This man speaks wisdom. More than that, wisdom I agree with.

>>47399371
>>47399399
Though you do have a point, i know this wont make the army better, but it gives them some claws back right?

>>47399338

autocannon vs punisher

>against aircraft:
autocannon: 4 shots, TL = 3 hits, STR 7 vs armor 10 = 2 HP
punisher: 20 shots = 10 hits, STR 5 vs armor 10 = 3+ HP (without casting prescience on it first, even)

Punisher is better

>vs t4 infantry
autocannon: 4 shots, 3 hits, 2.5ish wounds, round up to 3.
punisher: 20 shots, 10 hits, 6+ wounds.

Punisher is better.

vs fatty (t6 target)
autocannon: 3 hits, 2.5ish wounds round to 3
punisher: 10 hits, 3.5ish wounds round to 4.

>instant on t3
who the fuck cares they are t3. What multiwound t3 is giving you trouble? Even so:
autocannon: 3 hits, 3 dead
punisher: 10 hits, 8.5 wounds. Unles these have 3 wounds each punisher is better, and even at 3 wounds autocannon only marginally better.

>cheaper
and worse

>underestimate
because it sucks

>>47399580

forgot to account for snapshots against aircraft, so it actually looks like this:

autocannon: 4 shots, 1.3 hits, maybe 1 HP
punisher: 20 shots = 3.3 hits = 2 HP

>>47399580
>>47399615
Your mathhammer doesn't factor in range.

>>47399580
>20 shots vs aircraft without an AA weapon= 10 hits

anon it's time to stop eating paint chips

>>47393031
This is sad

>>47399648

I already talked about that at length:>>47399026
>>47398967

I really dont like repeating myself, it's tiring

I am enjoying this theorycrafting, but this hotel's shitty wifi is making me upset so I will bow out after this

>>47397779
question everything.

>>47399657

it's time to read the post literally right after that

I accept your apology in advance

>>47399714
While true, you still need it for optimal MathHammer, else it fudges the results.

>>47399398
see, i have a few issues trying to run Meltas on an Exterminator. The first is range. at 24" meltas have half the range of the main gun meaning if your targets aren't up close (and assuming you didn't move to fire all your weapons) they'll be out of range more often than not. In addition is the fact that their special rule is lost for much the same reason. Russes aren't fast so unless someone is basically taunting you to hit them they'll stay out of that 2 D6 penetration range. Last, it puts the Exterminator into an extreme anti-tank role in which if you go for hard targets to take advantage of the MM's then the main turret will likely be ineffective.

but, I also haven't used such a load out as much as I have with Plasma which with STR 7 36" range i find compliments the main turret much better.

feel free to convince me otherwise though.

>>47399406
i hate that i've forgotten this. i feel retarded

>>47399741
No, no, you're most likely right in those regards, but the fact that you can harm yourself with your own weapons just rubs me the wrong way.

Plus, they're cheaper!

>>47399728
Although the point does stand regarding the range. I kinda like the idea of being able to hit my enemies before they are 2 feet away. What is the max running range for general infantry? 6+2D6+2D6? I'm still learning the rules.

>>47399741
>>47399026
>>47398924

>>47399766
Normal infantry can move 6" and run D6".

>>47399784
Can they charge after running, though? That would be another 2D6 right? Or can you only run or charge?

Is it possible to give a Command Squad Grav guns, bikes, AND storm shields?

I was thinking of a super cheesy combo where they all have gravbikes and SSes and a Bike Lib conclave backs them up with Sanctuary from sanctic.

>>47399815
You can't charge at nothing

>>47399766

Why do you need to hit them over 2 ft away? How many games have you played where they are further than 24" + 6" move from you, and for how many turns?

In my experience, almost everything comes across the board for me anyway. The few that don't aren't in the opposite table quarter because I've deployed in the middle of the table. There aren't enough inches on the board for them to be that far away.

>>47399728
>>47399736

but why would he argue against his favor and be honest? Twice the range makes it far more of a threat and at STR 7 keeps it as one vs more heavily armoured flyers as well.

he then tried to compare it vs infantry in which he ignored that Wyverns are better at this to begin with by miles. Who would even consider shooting autocannons at hordes? It's as if he doesn't even play Guard

>>47399837
Well see, there it is right there.
>In my experience, almost everything comes across the board for me anyway.
If they're coming AT you then the doubled range is even better.

>>47399844
This as well.

>>47399837
It's not just about being able to shoot but also being able to avoid return fire and assaults. 24" puts a LR at quite a bit of risk.

>>47399782
>>47399837
>more than 2 feet
assuming you're dead center on the board with no terrain obscuring line of sight then your range is approx a 5" bubble. Unfortunately most games aren't so simple. you have to take terrain, objectives, armor facing, and opportunity into consideration.

In addition people you play against aren't likely to wander into your range to give you an opportunity to use those short range meltas to begin with unless you're playing with idiots.

Sorry, but smart players won't play into your strengths. Unless your local meta is melee walker heavy those MM won't be seeing much action

>>47399844
>>47399864

I dont think you two have been present for the entire conversation and are missing context.

>wyvern
The debate was about the exterminator vs the punisher, the wyvern and other units were never relevant to the conversation. I know the wyvern is better, that wasnt the point.

>twice range
so what? you never need it in a game that takes place on a board 4ft wide, you are 6" forward, they are 1ft forward. It's not useful most of the time, since you spend most of the game within 30" of your target.

>autocannons at hordes
you really need to read the whole conversation, friend. This was a comparison of the punisher to the autocannon, and I used every possible target to illustrate a point. I know better weapons exist for those purposes, this wasn't about general IG strategy it was a comparison of 2 specific weapons.

Seriously, you jump in at the tail end of a conversation and make assumptions about people's competence immediately without considering any context at all. It's kinda rude, man.

>>47399936
>>47399837
>>47399741
>>47399580
>>47399338
Ugh. See, this is EXACTLY why I magnetized my Tanks. As for getting Meltas on infantry instead of armor, I agree with that idea in theory, but I just can't seem to get my hands on enough Melta guns to outfit my squads.

>>47399985
I've been at the entirety of the conversation, I was just looking at the bit where you said they were coming at you, and thought that would be something to say.

Either way, from this argument I'm leaning toward the Exterminator.

>>47392947
>https://mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q
>Arbitrarily switches between .mobi, .epub, archives containing both, and audiobooks
I want to kill whoever created this.

>>47392988
>Cadian Hostile Environment Marines
>marines

>>47399936

explain to me how having an extra 2 ft or range negates this cover LOS obstruction you speak of. If your range exceed 2ft do you start ignoring cover? No. Then it's irrelevant.

My only point is that you seldom need range over 2ft on a vehicle when the tables are only so wide. I dont see how people can disagree with this. It's a 30" threat range when most things you shoot at are only 20-30" away. Have you really had to pull your tape out and unwind it past 48" an enormous amount of times? I haven't, even when I fielded artillery and Russ heavy lists.

>>47399985
>convo was exterminator vs punisher
Exterminators are better generalists. Punishers are not. If you want anti horde then yes Punishers are better but as you've conceded there's better options.

Punishers need a little something to make them worthwhile.

>you never need it
my main are Skitarii, shove it up your ass that the range isn't needed.

>jump in at the tail end of a conversation
i replied to a specific post with specific points, it's not my fault you carried over another conversation into it addressing things i never brought up.

>>47400001
i do too. and the new Russ kits make that easier than ever! but if unless you're in a WYSIWYG tourney you should be fine just using count as special weapons. i never have that issue with any of my opponents. Just whatever special weapon x model is using is x weapon instead and provide a list for them to reference if they need to so they know you're not fucking with them.

Are Admechs hard for a new player?

Also what is the difference between Cult and Skitarii? Are they distinct separate armies or are they part of just one bigger one but split?

>>47393031
consider seeking help

>>47400040
6" can be enough of a range difference between an alive tank and a dead one.

>going to Origins
>Ask tourney organizer why the rules are for the pairs tournament
>Says will post rules in two days
>2 days later
>Announces that he has to cancel, adifferent group will be taking over the tournament
>Ask new group about the the rules
>No response
I just need to know if they're going to have the pairs conform to the allies matrix and how they're going to handle the ITC detachmen limit.

>>47400040
>negates
i never said this, you're simply beating on a strawman.

>who needs an additional 18"?
by your reasoning 6" range is just as good as 60" range. In fact melee armies also have nothing to complain or worry about with that -2" reduction to charging through difficult terrain.

Again, unless you're playing idiots they'll easily move around your short range with any priority targets they might have.

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How's this list?

>>47400052

>>>47398924
generalists vs specialists

That's my take on specialization vs generalization, you are free to disagree of course but I think I make a good case

>skitarii
Your skitarii use 48" range a lot. This is not relevant to a conversation IG players are having about the punisher vs the autocannon, since we aren't skitarii.

An earlier anon brought up superior autocannon range as a boon over the punisher. I countered that as AM/IG, you don't need the extra range much since the table is not that large and things generally come to you. If they don't you deploy the tank in the table's center where there is only a max 36" they can hide from you, and even then only for 1 turn.

>>47393031
You are simply taking the time of a hapless intern and preventing him from answer the questions of real customers or solving their problems.

Has the 40K fanbase regressed to this childish mentality?

>>47399725
I did he just said they were fearless, that his immortals were T5, that his guys re-rolled all fail to hits and to wounds, and that he got to use both FnP and reanimation protocols on the same wound.

I still won

>>47400040
different guy, but you also say shit like 'meltas are better against medium vehicles' when compared to long range fire.
Are you also going to say that the 12" range. on the meltagun doesn't matter? Because you seem to ignore range pretty much constantly.

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>Necrons
Boring but top tier
>DE
Pretty, but worst army

If i can find a pdf of the Eldar IA 2nd edition i'll make a corsair list, if not then it's waiting until Late this year/Next year before i can start my Ahriman Cult with a new Dex
Fucking GW why make DE WORSE than they already are

Do people get butthurt if you add things to models? Like if I wanted to add bayonets to the rifles of units that don't actually have them.

>>47400138
>things generally come to you
What things?
Are you. still just thinking of all enemies as Marines?
That would explain why in all your. comparisons AV12 never shows up.

>>47400142
People who cheat tend to be dogshit at the game.

>>47400121
Anon1: PUNISHER!
Anon2: EXECUTIONER!
Anon3: ¿Por qué no ambos ?

>>47400138
>Skitarii
>48" range
Mate, I don't even play Skitarii, and I know that's crap, considering their best troops choice has default 18" range.

>>47400201
Well since I'll be playing against orcs a lot, I figured a punisher would be a good idea. Executioner can take care of the scary stuff.

>>47399824
help I need the cheese

>>47395260
I'm like that guy. I absolutely love putting models together and planning out really cool conversions then building them. However I hate Hate HATE painting and thus they are a sea of grey greenstuff and plasticard. Also I can't prime to save my life. I have yet to have a model come out well covered and not stippled.

>>47399824
Is Sanctic ever a good idea?

Why the fuck are all these new armies so shit?

Not fluff wise or anything, but the fact that they're just so fucking barebones with barely any shit in them

When can we expect Harlequins, Skitarii and Cult to be fleshed out so that all of them actually have HQs and variety in their units? There are just so little fucking options for them right now

>>47400425
Cult has HQs, and fluff-wise Skitarii don't have HQs.

Dunno about Harlequins though.

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>>47400394
are you playing grey knights or against daemons? then yes, otherwise no

>>47400425
they're ally books, while they look pretty as fuck (i would love a harlequin army personally or that tech priest domious) i think doubt they'll be given a full dex with more units or options.

harlequins have teeth though, don't underestimate them or get into cqc with them unless you have decent invuls

>The silhouette of the creature that emerged into view had too upright a posture to be a hive tyrant of the kind that were advancing along the pass below. Each of its four arms carried a blade of bone with an edge of serrated crystal and several clawed sub-limbs ran in two rows along its exoskeletal ribcage. The plates of chitin armour over its back and neck gave way to a sharp face full of a malevolent intelligence no bestial alien of the hive fleets should ever have possessed. Even from this distance the narrowed specks of its eyes spoke of a cruelty almost human in its intensity.

>Cassius had seen that silhouette before, at Cold Steel Ridge when it had massacred the honour guard that saved Marneus Calgar from its blades. He had seen that face, that needle-filled grin, at the Battle of the Polar Fortresses, when it had led the charge across those same peaks Cassius had looked out upon from Tigurius’ sanctum.

>‘The Swarmlord,’ breathed Cassius. ‘It lives.’

>A shiver ran down his spine – anticipation and something colder, more instinctual, that he did not fully understand. Then there was the rage, the searing, hate-filled rage. How many brothers had he seen die at this creature’s hands? Dozens? Hundreds? He pictured Brother Pericos, bisected by a pair of serrated blades. He saw Verrun, roaring his defiance as the creature lifted him up and snapped his neck with what the Chaplain could have sworn was sadistic pleasure.

>How many worlds had been devoured because of this abomination? So many dead. So much lost. He could not stay here and waste his bolter rounds on chattel while that monster roamed free.

>‘We must kill it,’ said Remas, and it was the first time in many years that Cassius had heard a flicker of excitement in the man’s voice.

>‘No. It is too far away, and we have enough to deal with as it is,’ said Captain Fabian. ‘I will not send men away on some doomed assassination mission while the fortress still stands.’

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>>47400525
>Cassius held out the macrobinoculars and Remas took them. He turned to Fabian.

>‘I must kill this thing, brother,’ Cassius said.

THE SWARMLORD HAS RETURNED.

Calgar is nowhere on this planet. How fucked are the Ultramarines?

>>47400394
With 5 ML 2 libs in a conclave, yes actually. Statistically speaking you're likely to roll at least 1 6 on the table which gives you a D-blast. With the conclave bonus, the typical debuff from that power doesn't really apply (since if you failed it in a Lib conclave you would Perils anyways). Keep in mind that ALL of the librarians can cast this power--one casts first, then the rest of your psykers, then the rest from the conclave that are in range (if we go by RAW).

What this guy is suggesting is getting a 2+ invuln from the Sanctuary Power + Storm Shields. Again, you're statistically likely to hit one of each power, so it's not a bad way of getting a bike grav deathstar.

>>47400552
Actually wait, they'd perils on ANY doubles. May not be worth.

Then again, D blasts.

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>Without another word, the Chaplain marched down the steps to the inner courtyard, the Tyrannic War veterans at his side. Ultramarine squads who had overheard the exchange glanced at the Lord Chaplain as he passed, but Cassius said nothing, offered no reassurances or even acknowledgment. He could not think of anything else but the desire to meet that foul creature in battle once more, to end its wretched existence. How had it survived? Chapter Master Calgar had torn the creature to pieces in the death-hives of Ichar IV. Cassius remembered every single moment of that cursed charnel pit – fighting through the sludge of digested Imperial citizens, xenos bio-acids eating away at his flesh, dead battle-brothers dissolving in the torrent of filth as he stumbled over their steaming corpses.

>All that death. All that sacrifice. And still the beast walked free.

>No longer. He would not allow it. He would find it, and he would kill it, for good this time. He would obliterate the creature so thoroughly that whatever foul xenos blasphemy had brought it back to life would never be able to do so again.

The oath is made. The hunt begins. It's on!

>>47400534
Not so terribly

>>47400534
i wanna throw out a joke about grav or the abundance of storm shields but idk how big of a threat swarmy is fluffwise. hell tabletop wise i'd be hesitate about throwing a bloodthrister at him due to instant death

>>47400617
Fluff-wise, the Swarmlord always remembers everything. Everything.

He's going to pwn those Ultramarines, but since they're Ultramarines, and it's a book, I highly doubt it, sadly.

>>47400617
fluffwise? he's the one who lead the invasion on macragge and reportedly multiple other near-successful invasions all over the galaxy on really well defended worlds, would've won if the good guys didn't all have plot armour

>>47400578
>Actually wait, they'd perils on ANY doubles. May not be worth.
That's the fucking point
Daemonology is still Daemonology