Warmahordes General

>>47350973

what factions do you play, not just own but actually play?

http://www.strawpoll.me/10138678

Let's keep the spoiler begging to a minimum shall we?

How do you guys feel about the new Jack Marshal rules? Any combo's you're itching to try?

You will never see Skorne players stop whining While making love to a hell jack named Sidney

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Hello friends, in honor of the new thread, I will spoil one (1) card of your choice. As usual, choose wisely.

>>47351024
Is there any one out there who collects 1/500 or 1/700 models as well as Warmachine? I want to base my Gators like they are destroying a city Kaiju style

>>47351028
Khador mechanics.

>>47351003

I would really like to see how Beast Mistresses work, leakerbro has an aversion to Legion though.

>>47351003
I like them. I always liked sticking a Juggernaut on an Iron Fang Kovnik just to have cheap high ARM and 20 boxes sat in a zone being a pain in the hole.

>>47351028
Feora2 if you have those, or all the Withershadow Combine if you only got Cryx

>>47351028
Tartarus.

>>47351028
How about Kossites?

>>47351028
I'd love to know what will happen to Lord Exhumator Scaverous.

Dawnguard Destors, lets see if PP can really level the game power levels out by viewing the worst Mk II cav.

>>47351028
Withershadow Combine

>>47351028

tartarus

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>>47351034
I'm sorry friend, I don't have the khador cards. See you guys next thread.

+1 for Tartarus

>>47351028

hmmmmmm

Sure, Sturgis, I haven't seen him yet. Or Lord Exhumator Scaverous.

All these faggots who didn't read the OP.

>LEAKBRO CAN'T POST KHADOR, SKORNE OR MENOTH WITHOUT BEING IDENTIFIED SO DON'T ASK edition

Still need to see Mortenebra and Nightmare please.

>>47351075
Oh I read it, I'm just an asshole who wanted to spoil everyone's fun by getting a shitty spoiler or no spoiler at all.

Blood Hag

>>47351034
Nice job reading the fucking thread faggot

>>47351085
>I was just pretending to be retarded

>>47351065
Pretty sure you don't actually have the cards at this point

>>47351028
How's about the Kraken or Sepulchre?

>SORRY LEAKBRO

I didn't see that shit sorry man. I guess we'll just have to wait. Thanks for all the other stuff though. :)

>>47351098
He does, he spoiled one or two full cards a few days ago after being called out.

So keep at him?

>>47351098

that anon just has cryx but he likes getting to feel powerful for once in his life so he mostly teases

>>47351028
scrap thrall

>>47351028
Just fuck off already.

>>47351117
Yeah couldn't tell if this was french bro or that Cryx faggot.

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Alright you little scoundrels, let's try this again one more time since I'm feeling generous. One (1) card , choose wisely.

>>47351028
Ossrum

Please Warhog or Lord Carver!

>>47351135

Oh Pistol Wraiths yes!

>>47351135
Khador mechanic

>>47351108
>>47351108
Yeah, one or two cards.
He keeps SAYING he has others but hasn't posted any others, so yeah, I think he got a few off a friend and decided to fuck with people.

>>47351135
Withershadow Combine!

>>47351135
Wraithlord.

Tartarus

>>47351135
>>47351144
Pistol Wraith would be sweet

>>47351135
Spoil the colossals or eat a dick

>>47351149

he's posted dozens of the cropped ones

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>>47351136
Well, looks like we got another bad choice here. Looks like people just aren't interested in cryx.

>>47351135

Nagash

>>47351168
So? That doesn't prove shit other than he's a dickhole.

>>47351171
See. You retards need to start ignoring him.

>>47351165
looks like its dong gobbling time

>>47351135
scrapthrall

>>47351171
C'mon man, don't let the trolls win.
They're probably just salty Sammies because their go-to OP caster got nerfed.

pSkarre please.

>>47351207
>still feeding the (You)-fisher

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>>47351189
I've posted loads of crops with new art, formatting and even some rules in addition to two full card spoilers. Here's a spoiler for you, I'll let you guys figure out who it belongs to.

>>47351171
Desecrator!

>>47351228
YOU CAUGHT ONE

>>47351233


fuck off dumb Cryx poster

>>47351233
And? Until you start posting full cards with some regularity then we should assume you're full of shit and don't have them.

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>>47351233
did i get it?

>>47351171
You want Cryx?
>>47351144 >>47351163 there you go
Post or you're full of shit

>>47351302
Holy shit. That seems like one amazing jack. Would be neat if you could Quick Work in melee though.

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>>47351308
>>47351286
You're not entitled to any spoilers, my friend.

>>47351302
Needs stats.

Trollbloods, anything Trollbloods related, shit the entire faction give it up.

>>47351319
I don't give a fuck because you're not giving them (probably because you don't have them)

>>47351332
I doubt they changed much from the MK2 version. The points cost would be important though. If it follows the regular scheme we've seen it would be something like 18-19 points. A hefty price, but might be worth it.

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>>47351349
Keep fishing lad, you might get lucky!

>>47351302
So a fully boosted gun that ignores most shooting rules for one focus, on a quick work thresher jack?

Seems good

>>47351367
Nah, done talking to you. I'm happy to watch the people continue to beg you for spoilers you'll never deliver.

>>47351367
How strong is Jace's mill game in mk3?

>>47351372
>for one focus

Not quite, it has to spend a Soul token, not a Focus point. So you have to get a soul onto the Harrower first. That's not terribly difficult since it's got a harvesting range of 5", and Quick Work means it can charge a unit, kill a bunch with Thresher, then fire its suped-up Mortifier at something else. But you have to do a bit of prepwork to get the most out of it.

>>47351444
Ah ha! Thank you. That's still totally cool, good, and feasible. Not just kinda cute like most of this shit turns out being

>>47351444
Soul Trappers work too (presumably)

Can we have Boomhowler?
And Ashlynn?

>>47351444
Deneghra3

>>47351135
Show me that saucy archangel please.

I really just want to know if they change anything else. Its beautiful model and I just want to use it ;-;

>>47351674
He only has Cryx cards, ya dingus. Not that he's showing them, anyway.

>>47351674
>begging someone who doesn't post spoilers
>for a faction hes never shown any evidence of having spoilers for
>;-;

Jesus Christ I think you win the award for biggest retard in the thread.

>>47351720
Wait is this a different guy from the one a few days ago? You know the guy who actually posted legion cards.

>>47351750
There two leakers.
One is the faggot who keeps posting cryx crops but no actual spoilers.
One is Poland Bro who infrequentluly posts a lot of cryx but no other factions for some reason.

>>47351874
What happened to french bro, or is that the first guy?

>>47351890
I think French-bro is the dude who posts cropped images.

>>47351905
Well that's disappointing.

>>47351905
Na, the guy posting crops only has Cryx to post.

There's three leakers, but the french guy was only here one day I think.

Coup de Main now specifies Privateer models and it affects jacks as well. Do you guys think that Galleon will be a Privateer Colossal?

>>47352097
>Coup de Main now specifies Privateer model
back into the trash Shae goes

So are skorne players still on the biggest doom train ever?

>>47352184
I don't know, have any spoilers been released yet with positive changes to the faction?

>>47351468
Yea. I'm really looking forward to trying out my Helljack again. Mk3 looks like it's going to be a real breath of fresh air.

And I can finally claim vindication for never having gotten on the Bane Train in the first place.

>>47352184
A lot of Protectorate players seem really huffy as well.

>>47352045
>There's three leakers, but the french guy was only here one day I think.

Indeed. If you didn't get those cards, then just look them up online. The other guys are just attention whoring and turning the threads into nothing but leak requests.

Stop asking them for shit.

Now back to the actual mk3 game....

Menoth's defensive options seem to have greatly expanded beyond camping focus + taking a Vigilant.

Templars, Paladins, and many other models now have shield guard. The Reclaimer hands out concealment in the form of Ashen Veil. Vigilants now give out fucking cover and immunity to blast damage.

With a Vigilant and Reclaimer, Harbinger can easily sit at 20 defense vs shooting and 16 defense vs melee against living. 22 defense vs shooting and 18 defense vs melee against living if she keeps awe.

And I don't think they're going to get rid of Divinity, so you can't slam or knock her down to get rid of that high ass defense.

If you want even more protection, you can send a bunch of paladins with her. She gets hit, a Paladin shield guards her, and she uses Martyrdom to save the Paladin.

And while her feat covers a much smaller area, it's still a bitch in a half, considering that with Martyrdom and Awe, she's still likely to want to be within 10" of the front lines.

I think people are going to be underestimating Harbinger early on.

>>47352247

Nah. After some time to process the Insider, the Protectorate forums are doing pretty good. They've largely gotten over the Choir, and a handful are still a little butthurt over Bastions, but everyone is excited about Severius2, Vindictus, Amon, our light jacks, the jack marshals, and changes to Zealots.

Insider today?

>>47352248
Have we seen Shield Guard on a card? Or have people just referenced it in text? What would you think about shield guard blocking all attacks as a new balance change.

>>47352286
Hopefully Minions!

>>47352248

>Templars, Paladins, and many other models now have shield guard.

...Paladins of the Wall got Shield Guard?

That makes them a bitch and a half on the center line for your army. I love it.

Did they lose anything?

>>47352298
Shield guard was on the warders.

It does less than it did in mk2. It has the same rules as mk2 but now it doesn't work vs sprays.

>>47352298
We have.

Shield Guard is now 3" instead of 2", but can't block sprays anymore.

>>47352313


1" melee

>>47352184
I sure am. I think I'm close to the "coping" stage.

>>47352248
I thought I heard awe had been removed to tone down her defensive tech?

>>47352327

That's not terrible. They didn't have Reach in the first place. So 1" melee is better than most.

>>47352184
I mean, PP has done nothing to actually assure them that Skorne has gotten better.

I'm starting to think that the reason we have yet to see any Skorne spoilers at all is that there's just nothing to spoil that's worth talking about.

>>47352332
Jay and Trevor didn't help too much yesterday

>>47352298
>Have we seen Shield Guard on a card?

Warders had it. Once per turn, you become the target of an attack for an ally directly hit within 3" of you.

>>47352313

Vilmon lost Impervious Wall and gained shield guard, which he now hands out to Paladins.

They all lost a point of POW, but Paladins gained half an inch melee range.

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>>47352298
Here you go.

>>47352334
>I thought I heard awe had been removed to tone down her defensive tech?

Haven't hear that anywhere. Wasn't listed in any of the changes.

>>47352336

Sorry Vilmon went down to 1" as well

At least Skorne models are visually striking and I'll enjoy painting and displaying them. I just won't play with them anymore, I'll go back to maining Khador.

>>47352353
>>Vilmon lost Impervious Wall and gained shield guard, which he now hands out to Paladins.

He doesn't hand out Shield Guard. He hands out Righteous Vengeance, which he also gained Which is great, because part of the issue with Paladins is how they slow they were getting up the field while maintaining their stances.

>>47352374
>>47352353
>>47352321
Thanks guys.

Damn shame that, could have been an actually interesting change.

>>47352443
Fuck, I'm hyped for Menoth.

Really hoping to see Amon's card before I order a few Crusaders to go with him.

>>47352483
>>47352483
Last thread Polish Leakbro said he had Field Marshal: Parry, Flashing Blade, Tough and (*) Trip which knocks down a model.

>>47352443
Non-sprays is a pretty big change, honestly.

Gives sprays a huge value in solo removal.

>>47352278
>They've largely gotten over the Choir
I wish my friend would get over it. He thinks he wont be able to hit anything besides a khador heavy with mat 6.

>>47352881


And here Mercs have been dancing in the streets because nomads and Manglers are now Mat 6 Pow 18s

Any news on Menoth Bastions or Khador Man-o-wars?

>>47352881
Whats happening with the choir?

>>47352184

Everything that the entire player base was deeply familiar with got worse.

What they are passably familiar with seems like it's bobbing and weaving in place.

The ones that know Mordikaar and thus Void spirits are pretty certain there is something good there.

The ones that know Constructs are pretty certain Immortals just got kicked up another notch, which makes two buffs in a row.

Nobody knows artillery, Ferox, or slingers (beyond meatshields with souls that have a turn of threat before their inevitable end). There's no context for interpreting what these units being useful (much less good) now even means.

You have to take it on faith that warlocks got better, worse, or stayed the same; people are or aren't both for about as much reason.

Everyone thinks on mk3 Agonizers with hopeful optimism while calculating how much defensive tech they're going to need.

But the effective -1 warbeast fury across the board (when not -2), survivability nerfs (effective or outright), those are REAL and widespread- even moreso when you limit your consideration to what the players know how to use. To reiterate, suppose that every model that you know how to use does the same thing, but worse. It's an optimism killer.

>>47352984
they lost the +2 to hit on their prayer. Now its just +2 damage.

>>47352984
MoWs remain at 8 boxes and are straight up repairable now.

The kovnik now has Desperate Pace.

>>47352984
All medium base infantry but Man o Wars and Convergence stuff has dropped from 8 boxes to 5.

I think Bastions picked up set defense.

MoWs are now repairable, and the MoW Kovnik has Desperate Pace. They're also picking up a UA that makes them immune to any movement or place effects.

Choir now only give +2 to damage.

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>>47351003
>Let's keep the spoiler begging to a minimum shall we?
fuck you gibs me all of cryx ploxx (and maybe cygnar.. goddammit i really wanted skorne)

Any news on Mortenebra yet? It's weird to see Venethrax get Terminal Velocity and hear nothing about Morty.

>>47353144
removed from the game

Why only cryx? Lets spoil some legion!

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Any Troll Bros in this here thread? What are you excited for? Are you on the Doom train? Will you ever play Burrowers again?

>>47353220
Legion got a ton of spoilers.

>>47353227
I don't play trolls, but I'm considering them for a journeyman league.
I want Highwaymen to be good, I want Hunters Grimm to be good, and I want Fire Eaters to remain cool.

>>47353220
Because to limit stuff like leaks from happening translators/play testers only get a limited amount of cards. The guys in these threads only got a limited amount of stuff.

>>47353000
>>47353006
so which is it 8 or 5? do you guys have a leaked MOW card?

>>47352990
Well thats not too bad I guess. I have an un assembled menoth starter box,paladin and choir staring are me. Thankfully I didn't buy any more stuff waiting on Mk3 cause my friend gave me a menoth 2010 deck to get me into the game.

I always liked the look of both Menoth/Khador heavy infantry. Good to see MOW getting some love I guess but i'll believe it when i see it.

>>47353227
Probably won't use Burrowers, they looks like shit right now. Warders looks nice, Champions are also decent. Not sure about Kriel Warriors, loved them in MkII, not sure now, without Steady.

Hoping for Bushwackers to be good. Also Scattergunners and Highwaymen.

My fav warlocks were Jarl and Grissel2, maybe they'll be better now. Also liked Madrak1 but now he looks boring.

>>47353279
No no, everyone BUT MoW went to 5 boxes.

Convergence infantry also kept their 8 boxes.

Does your FLGS carry WarmaHordes?
If no do people still play it there?

Is it just me or does Skorne seem like the "pushy" faction now? Grand Slam, Repulsion, Pull, Beat Back, Drag on a six man unit, the list goes on. It really seems like they're going to be able to move your opponent's models around table, and probably cause some damage while doing if.

>>47353332
Drag on medium bases is worthless unless it changed.

Grand Slam is terrible unless Slams changed.

Beat Back got nerfed

So no.

Could care less about a all the Cryx and Cygnar, give us Trolls!

>>47353376
The leak guys aren't worth your time anon, just wait the three weeks. Other leaks will drop eventually

>>47353388
t. PP Shill

Is there a repository somwehre of all leaked cards?

So with cmd going out what's the purpose of standard bearers?

>>47353323
ah, ok. Sorry I read it wrong, my bad.

>>47353439
extend CMD range

>>47351125
Seconded

>>47353439
They give extra CMD when close to the leader, so you can spread your dudes out farther.

>>47353409
1705 136 Place NE STE 120
Bellevue WA 98005

>>47353395

No, he's right. The only leaked worth a shit dumped all they had a couple days ago. All that remains now are trolls who only post portraits, and an attention whore who required the thread get filled with a dozen requests before he posts half a Cryx card nobody asked for.

PP has spoiled more than those fags have.

>>47353324
My flgs carries it but i'm the only one left who plays. The meta moved to another storean hour away.

>>47353466
ok how bout one we can actually get the cards from :P

>>47353490
And let's not forget the guy who's got all the spoilers and posts that he has them, but refuses to post as well.

Why bother even telling us anything?

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>>47351302
Assuming the old stats didn't change much, that seems pretty good overall, though I suspect the price tag didn't drop much.
>charge in melee with some scrubs
>Thresher the lot
>Quick Work procs
>hoover up their souls
>lob a Wraith Shot'ed Mortifier blast into something valuable.

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>>47353395
Honestly no, just letting you know it's not worth it to beg for spoilers. They've got nothing and are just fucking with you.

As soon as some one had something to share they'll post it. Begging just feeds the trolls and makes you look like an idiot.

>>47353324

I drive an hour to play in Austin. A new store opened up near me in Bastrop, but there aren't any other players and my schedule sucks too much for me to get a group going.

>>47353439
Increase the unit commanders CMD by 2, so you can spread out a bit more.

>>47353530
Polish Leakbro has stuff but he's inconsistant as fuck and only seems to post Cryx, despite the fact that he's shown us that he has other factions.

>>47352596
Yep. Just waiting for confirmation that he kept Mobility before spending way too much on crusaders.

>>47353511
Honestly? I do it to mess up your threads because I know it will be filled with cancerous beggers and normies.

>>47353503
It's closer than France!

>>47353573
Probably doesn't want to lose his job

This guy is just a dick >>47353576

>>47353576
You do it because you need something to do while the big black cocks you gargle need refractory time

>>47350973
Does anyone have a list of the basic rules changes, specifically for 'Jacks and a run down of the Cygnar rules.

>>47353332
There are quite a bit of direct moves they can force on their opponents now

>>47353606

Google battlecollege mk3 spoilers. It's got everything plus references.

>>47353503
http://imgur.com/a/KbcNg

>>47353626
Many thanks.

>>47353638
thanks broski

>>47353621
The only thing new is repulsion. We already had all the other shit, and still the only thing that was ever done was the occasional two handed bronzeback throw because giving up 3 initials to slam is usually worthless, and drag on medium bases is pointless.

>>47353659
DJ was in the album but I can't find him now. /shrug

>>47353706

Good idea to just go ahead and save stuff rather than risk it getting taken down and having to hunt it down again somewhere else.

>>47353706
http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1463558956552.png

>>47353745
Much obliged!

>>47353324
It carries a little bit on account of there being barely any people left that play it. Most of the players migrated to other systems over the last two years or so, a process accelerated by the fact that those that remained had to play against a trio from the 'play like you got a pair'-faction, which very quickly leeches most of the joy from any game and prevents new guys from actually getting into the game.
I hope Mk.3 revitalizes interest, I'd love to play my Menites more than maybe once a quarter.

>>47353745
Well, this guy remains a force of pure murder.

With the new rules he starts every round with three focus now.

Im not trying to be a cry baby faggort, but I regret buying so much merc stuff for my khador. I dont ever really see my self using something like alexia and the risen anymore. She was good in a casual competitive kind of way, but now that I cant even turd polish her... I don't think speed bumping people with shitty undead justifies having the unit on the table.

I dont see a place for croes in any of my armies either.

Maybe I'll change my mind when i see the "big picture", but right now playing mercs in any list that isnt a merc list seems like a bad choice.

maybe this stuff was limiting design, could be fore the better.

>>47353638

Can someone explain to me how Spectral Leech is any good against Warmachine factions instead of Hordes?

I get removing fury from beasts so their warlocks can't leech them, but how is this going to come into play against Warcasters and Warmachines?

>>47353745
>Cryx babbies were complaining about having nothing that can crack ARM

Jesus.

Two POW18 and one POW15 initials at MAT8, with three focus before any 'caster involvement and the ability to debuff shit before charging.

I cannot believe I sympathized with them for even a second.

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>>47353745
thanks bro bro.

>>47349674

Was sad about Conjunction nerf, but with Ghost Walk and Veil getting cheaper it's not such a big deal. Change to Infernal Machine is a little annoying, though. Circle heavies don't hit themselves, and Cryx 'jacks mostly don't have crit effects.

>>47353323
Long Riders also stayed with 8 boxes.

>>47353864
You are welcome.

Bonus Skarre2 (forget if she's in that imgur album or not): http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1463573599823.jpg

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>>47353706
I got you

>>47353835
Removes the ability to negate 5dmg/foc camped on casters. That's the biggest one.

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Rate and h8. My list for the last all nighter of Mk2 at L&L

Mercenaries - Highborn Covenant - Damiano tier copy

56 / 56 (50+6) Warcaster(s) : 1/1 Warjack(s) : 2 Battle Engines : 0 Solos : 2 Units : 5

Captain Damiano - WJ: +6
- Rocinante - PC: 9
- Nomad - PC: 6

Stannis Brocker - PC: 4
Sergeant Nicolas Verendrye - PC: 2

Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 6
Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 6
Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 4 Grunts: 9
Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 2 Grunts: 5
Steelhead Riflemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 9

>>47353880
Awesome! I haven't seen this one yet =)

>>47353906
r8 8/8 gr8 m8

>>47353835

>Enemy caster camping focus
>You want to assassinate
>Spectral Leech to remove some/maybe all camp
>Follow up with feat, Parasite, Hellfire, melee attacks as needed

>>47353954
Are faction decks going to come with merc cards? I have a handful of mercs and minions for Retribution and don't want to spend so much for a handful of models.

>>47354019
They do NOT

However
The Merc box comes with whatever Minions are also Mercs

>>47353906
boring

>>47354019

No such luck. However, iirc all the minions that are also mercenaries come in the mercenary deck, and vice versa.

>>47353849
You should have been here yesterday when they were saying he was shitty and no one used him

>>47353835
Aside from assassination potential...

One of the Sevy's jacks may keep focus for field marshal vision.

Any jack with focus battery. Including cephalyx monstrosities. On also convergence lynchpin jack the Inductor.

There's also that retribution light arc node which may find itself camping focus now and then.

>>47353794
He lost cull soul and his ability to cast upkeeps with no real price acomidation tho, wich is a little dissapointing. Looks like hes just for TK and mortality

>>47354042


>innocent tier list is too pure for this world

>>47354233
>My jack runs at full focus for free
>he lost the ability to heal himself and cast spells
>this is bad

I'm beginning to think theres a secret agreement with cryx players to whine about not being rediculous

>>47353849
at what cost though.

23 points for 2 18's is costly.

Anyone one else going to pick up a talon to run with their devil dogs?
KD+stationary every turn on a warjack seems like some solid control

>>47354360
You mean seven (five at minimum) 18s and a 15

>>47354379


Blind it for good effect too.

>>47354327
He traded cull soul + rendering for snacking. He still heals. Cull soul gave him the ability to go over 5 focus but snacking gives the option to rfp, its a toss up.

DJ is a great jack, but hes expensive and has a big target on his head because of his toolbox. I only ever fielded him with scaverous, but I dont field skarre2, morty or coven wich are the other casters that get the best utility out of him

>>47354408
Yeah, the thing basically has 4 initals with the claws and a 15, Dark Shroud and its 5x 20 and a 17, more than any other heavy warjack ,and thats without focus from the caster, DJ is fine lol

>>47354443
That's not what initials mean

initials mean without spending focus.

Do we have any spoilers for Menoth?

>>47354327
the way i see it is cryx in mk2 was about quantity > quality, none of the spoiled casters seem to change that yet. I have a hard time thinking id run dj over 2 slayers and if seethers are ~12 points and still have soul drive id be getting 4 focus for free for around the same cost and 2 bodies. I dont think cryx is half as bad as people make it out to seem but dj is in a real weird cost range where i could get more bodies for less cost or for another ~15 i could getta colossal for tons of quality... the one thing that made him attractive was cull souls which could make him completely self contained in the focus department. We'll see if theres a spell or caster that just is his bff but as it stands now i dont see him coming off my self

>>47354486
Everything I had heard about Menoth was spoiled by PP yesterday.

>>47354428

You know, a "stealth change" that I think has occurred is that having single wound living infantry on the table while not being anti-cryx tech'd to the nines and your other list not being a dedicated Cryx drop is no longer a mistake you'll regret making.

>>47353849
The entire point was that there's no reason to use Slayers because they're too pilowfisted.

>>47354379
> pick up a talon
Implying I don't already have several that just need a good dusting.

>>47354422
I like the way you think.

>>47354428
I'd argue that Cull Soul was a bit too good. I'm definitely arguing that his old healing mechanic was crazy. It's pretty demoralizing to get something at his PC to low health by sacrificing a heavy then having get healed to full by from rendering.

DJ is 13/19 with 32 boxes. He's beefy. So high damage output as well as high tank as well as high recovery as well as upkeep spell utility in MK2.

I mean sure Rendering may have needed some engineering sometime. But it was technically possible to run him at a clump then AoE the clump (purge or venom or whatever) and get 4d6-6d6 worth of healing. Snacking is way more fair because DJ has to get his own kills and it's half the healing.

Yet DJ is awesome at infantry killing. 8 initial attacks at RNG 1 and MAT 8. Or you make 3 initials and boost to hit all three without allocating any focus for 3d3 healing. Then throw on some repairs.

Also before anyone says that 23 is expensive. You can grab DJ + an arc node with just the free WJ points. Add one more arc node and you have a scary battlegroup.

>>47354460
It has 2 more focus then any heavy in the game and gets those for free, math wise, as long as its not disrupted, it gets 2 more free attacks over another heavy warjack

>>47354498
>I have a hard time thinking id run dj over 2 slayers

Deathjack allows you to concentrate more force into a smaller space. Two Slayers might have a higher damage output than the DJ, but you won't always be able to have them gang up on the same target. And if one of those Slayers goes down before reaching the target you're a bit out of luck. Whereas DJ can take a little bit more damage and heal through Snacking.

Most Cryx armies are going to be based around a horde of cheap rubbish, but I think they're always going to want one or two really big beatsticks to deal with things attrition can't. In some lists that'll be the Warcaster him/herself, but in others, the DJ looks like a good contender.

>>47354498
I think DJ will have a role on helping to hand out the parasites and other debuffs, where the warcaster is focus strapped or you can't get an arc node in the area.

Say the new norm is 1 or 2 big jacks and a lot of cheap heavies, and a chaff unit or two. Throwing out one debuff a turn to gank some warjack may not be enough to establish a good piece trade.

>>47354580
no.

The difference is those focus can be used for other things, they can be boosts or spells

Initials are only attacks, they have to be attacks.

A beast with 4 initials is different than a heavy with two initials and two free focus

>>47354610
Go read his card, then cry a bit.

He can't parasite.

>>47354632
Yeah, it totally sucks. He can only Hellmouth, Mortality, TK, Venom, Ghostwalk, etc. It's all garbage.

>>47354571
one large base is expensive for 23 points. you need blockers. you can get 4 slayers with those points+arc node

>>47354498
>the way i see it is cryx in mk2 was about quantity > quality,

Eh cryx in MK2 was about quantity + quality. Let's be real here.

Though getting to what you mean about quantity. Yes Cryx can do that and it seems a perfectly valid point and your on the right track.

The thing about DJ is that he allows you to play the army a bit different. You wind up with a power center piece that can murder anything it reaches. So you adjust the plan to protecting DJ while it murders things. Use slams, debuffs, and sheer mobs of infantry to pin the enemies other heavies while DJ murders what it can reach.

The fact Cryx has options in how it plays isn't a bad thing. It doesn't need to be totally homogenized "only spam stuff that lets you badly outnumber your opponent".

Look at bloodgorgers. Berserk + Overtake means that have some decent melee output but they are clearly not cheap spammable infantry.

>>47354653
Don't be a prick. DJ is great. He just lost a lot of his insane potential from Mk2. I wasn't saying he's garbage.

>>47354654
>you can get 4 slayers with those points+arc node

No you can't. Slayers are 10 DJ is 23. You can get 2 slayers + half an arc node for the cost of a DJ. Which when you consider DJ is practically an arc node and can murder two slayers in a turn isn't so bad.

DJ isn't going to be ubiquitous because he doesn't fit the plan of every Cryx caster. That's a good thing. He's got a unique role and fits well when the plan uses that role well.

>>47353849
I've never in my life heard a Cryx player complaining about armor cracking options within the faction.
The complaints are about Slayer and other lackluster jacks that are more viable now.

>>47354654

You might want to check your math, or check your sources.

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Bastions went down a point in POW. And Cinerators gained vengance. Are Cinerators acceptable now?

>>47354732
Cinerators gained two inch reach as well. They're probably better than Bastions.

>>47354748
Bastions are still stickier.

>>47354732
No, PP fucked up again

>>47354732
Cinerators also lost relentless advance but picked up 2" reach. Bastions also gained set defense.

Eh I expect in MK3 we will see a massive move away from medium units in a kneejerk reaction to nerfs. Eventually people will come around to them again.

With that said I think new cinerators are much better. Vengence is +2 inches of movement over relentless advance and lets you do non-linear movements. Going from 0.5" to 2" is pretty huge.

>>47354732
At 5 boxes? No. But neither are most other heavy infantry, so at least there's parity in terms of sucking.
Assuming they didn't also get a substantial discount, obviously.

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>>47354732
>unjamming cinnies with cleansers

>>47354498
>I have a hard time thinking id run dj over 2 slayers

With "basic" heavies down to 5 mk2 points, power up, and greater use of field marshal, I think this is going to be the norm.

>>47354826
>field marshal
Jack Marshal? That thing that doesn't use Warjack points and thus requires spending more points on jacks on top of the ones in your battlegroup?

Reminder. Your caster will have 30 Warjack points. So 3 slayers and nothing else. Or 1 Deathjack + 1 1/2 arc nodes. Or 2 ~15 cost heavies. Or 1 Slayer and 4-6 lights.

If you want to spend 12 points ontop of that to have a jack marshaled slayer...then why not? But it'll always be in addition to not in replacement of.

>>47354826
>>47354930
Oh wait you meant actual field marshal. Eh I think that's very caster dependent just like how thier offensive spell list varies the value of Deathjacks spellcasting.

I wanted to make that point about costs anyway though.

>>47354930
I'd be psyched if a marshalled slayer felt like a legit option instead of a 10man infantry unit. But i do not think that will be the case.

>>47354972
Why would you ever marshal a heavy?

>>47355033
Cheap missile. I'd strongly consider it in Khador, for instance.

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He's mostly a 'jack caster now, right? I don't see him giving much of a crap about infantry.

>>47355033
you have a small focus stat/control area and want a dedicated flanking jack

>>47355083
i want to run him with like 5-6 node chicken jacks and maybe 4 slayers 2 harrowers

>>47355083
>He's mostly a 'jack caster now, right?

Looks like. I want to run a big brick of Helljacks up the table with him at the center. My only worry is that he's going to step on Mortenebra's toes a bit too much, and make her feel a bit pointless.

>>47355151
>>47355151
instead of slayers maybe inflictors.

>>47355083
>>47354930
Wait, so can we not spend normal points on 'jacks? Are we limited to just Warjack points now for jacks?

>>47355169
No.

>>47355169
No, you have some points that can ONLY be spent on jacks. Those are warjack/warbeast points and are dictated by the caster.

Certain in-the-know people have been posting some cagey spoilers of Skorne stuff on Facebook. Take them as you will, but it's looking like Skorne plays like Cryx now. Quantity over Quality. Breaks down like this:

-Rasheth got buffed. Feat now affects all enemy models and is also -2 def. Castigate stops all channeling. Impervious Flesh now affects all attacks. Dark Rituals now deals magic damage, is 1/turn, and is FF only.

-AG's got cheaper, but no longer speed up Immortals. Immortal UA can spend souls for +2" of movement though.

-Zaal2 unchanged, but Vision got buffed so it's now "may" when hit.

-Hexy2 traded Arcane Reckoning for Banishing Ward. Ashen Veil is FF only. Otherwise unchanged. Hellfire and Ashes to Ashes are same as what was spoiled earlier.

-Reivers+UA now cost less than a full unit (no UA) used to cost in mk2.

-Slingers now have 3 ammo-types (Erosion, Corrosion, and Flare) and are def 13. Still super cheap and Venator Dakkar solo can buff rat.

-Morghoul2 lost def, gained arm, is Steady, and has a 2" melee on the sword. Complete rework of spell list.

-Naaresh replaced Iron Flesh (which is no longer in the game) with Blur, gained a point of str, 1" melee and has hyper regeneration. Feat is the same.

-Tibbers unchanged and has Unmoveable Object still, but with wording change to let him use Overtake. My guess is it makes him immune to only enemy effects now.

-People excited to play Zaal1, Rasheth, Xerxis1, and Xekkar.

-Despoiler lost reach (like Rhinodon), but has Dark Shroud continuously.

-Vorkesh changed Spell Ward to Sacred Ward and gained Tactics: Steady.

-Cataphracts of all types are "still good".

Also, confirmed changes to WSC.

"Oh, I have no idea and have lost track of it anymore so to me the floodgates are kind of just open. Iirc, Withershadow unit is a Warcaster Attachment. They lost Dark Industries and Weapon Master vs Warjacks. Officer has the Skarlock's Spell Slave rule at Magic 7, lost Granted:Stealth but the unit just has Stealth period. Admonia lost her upkeep removal, keeps free upkeep. Don't know about changes to Puppet Strings guy or PS itself. 9pts."

"Puppet strings is now reroll the entire roll, not pick and choose."

More stuff dreged from other reliable sources.

"How does everyone feel about Rhupert giving pathfinder to target friendly model / unit? Pathfinder to your favorite warcaster or warjack sounds pretty nice..."

>>47354571
You make some good points. I used mine to mostly cycle upkeeps so thats the biggest let down. Especially since, allegedly, cryx is the magic faction

"Iirc, Satyraiders lost Power Swell, Advance Deploy, CMA, 1 point of Speed, and Knockdown got moved to the .5" range Horns (though the horns thing means the other versions of Satyr chicks gained the knockdown). Pathfinder and Force Barrier (or I forget the name, but you know what I mean) are now seperate Prayers, and I forget the third option if there is one. The one benefit to this is it means the unit doesn't lose the defense vs ranged attacks the turn you kill the Sea Witch."

"You aren't correct.

Raiders are still SPD 7. They got Gang instead of CMA. Both horns and whip now have Crit Knockdown. The prayers are Pathfinder if they charge, Force Barrier, and Overtake.

The Raider Captain still has No Sleeping on the Job, lost Desperate Pace, and now just has straight knockdown on both attacks, Relentless Charge, and Reposition 3" instead of Sprint."

>>47355420
Also

"19 points for witch plus full unit. There are better jam units."

>>47355345
Goodbye Cryx, time to pick up Talion Charter.

>>47355345
Well I guess getting to cast a free parasite or something in those lines is a good buff, but the puppet master nerf seems unnecessary. Losing unbinding is HUGE.
I'll still probably play them, they may as well completely replace the Skarlock.
>>47355420
Gang is a huge buff. Loss of power swell is going to hurt. Prayers are okay. Desperate Pace is a massive nerf.

>>47355420
Gang on Satyxis Raiders is fantastic.

"Barathrum is now ARM 18 base, still has Feedback on his talons, Countercharge, and now ignores free strikes on Drag Below. Bond with Terminus is Unyielding."

>>47355345
no such ability as puppet strings

l2 puppet master

>>47355487
>Well I guess getting to cast a free parasite or something in those lines is a good buff

Can't cas upkeeps.

"That is a bit to early to tell but Skorne will still do a lot of heavy lifting off the backs of its beasts. Nihilators are even better for some god awful reason.

Shooty Skorne is totally a thing that can and most likely will happen."

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>>47355345

"Skorne shoots really, really well and I think their casters are pretty great - not all are winners, but overall I think they did a legitimately great job on balancing Skorne casters. I don't think there are any that leap out at me as unplayable garbage like old eMorghul, and while I don't think they have an S-tier casters, I think they have a bunch of solid As and Bs. Their infantry actually seems pretty good, and they have some baller solos.

Their beasts are more reasonable now. I think that's about it. "

Regarding Skorne single wound infantry:

"Tell him about how Force Field is such a great tool to make your low armor troops much more viable.

It isn't. That's what we use Primed for"

>>47355380
>Especially since, allegedly, cryx is the magic faction

Thank you and it still is the magic faction. You're just using that magic as attacks only now.


>>47355259
-Reivers+UA now cost less than a full unit (no UA) used to cost in mk2.

Huh....that's...huh. That sounds like some of the changes we've seen to PC for Steelhead Rifles and other units. Honestly a big PC reduction can take a unit into playability without any other changes.

>>47355379
...huh didn't think to check for that. Always the little wording changes that catch you.

>>47355473
Talion Charter is almost entirely unchanged btw.

"Kraye looks like hot garbage. This makes me sad. Maybe reposition 5" on all his jacks is enough. He isn't doing much else...

I think you could make a persuasive argument for either Cygnar, Khador, ret, or mercs as the strongest warmachine faction. Pagani thinks if Cygnar.

Most people will likely argue that Cryx is the weakest warmachine faction.

I have no fucking idea what I think of hordes. It feels like warmachine is stronger, but I could easily be over reacting. I think trolls are likely the strongest hordes faction and Skorne the weakest. I could be wildly wrong.

I never should have posted a meme on the Skorne forums I had been sent joking about them and design space. Nothing constructive came if it."

>>47355663
In reply to the above:

"Circle's better than trolls IMO.

Edit: And Skorne's DEFINITELY better than Legion."

Sounds like the WSC got completely gutted.

>>47355663
What are these arguments based on? How do they know?

were are this guys posting?

"
Strakov is bad ass force multiplier and you now believe he can solo a cryx stronghold.

X2 is much more interesting, X1, eh i guess a little maybe?

Jackhammer still exists.

DoF Dwarves are a sturdy folk as are their jacks. NOte I'm not sure if the dwarves themselves are actually "Sturdy" sturdy."

>>47355702
The name and number of digits on the average human hand.

>>47355699
They've seen all the cards.

>>47354598

There are also advantages to two Slayers. They can spread out to impact different parts of the board. One more Power Up focus helps make up for DJ's Skulls focus, though not fully. Harder to one-round two 'jacks (due to positioning) than one, even if the one is substantially hardier. And two cheap heavies are better for piece trading.

So there's give and take, which is exactly how list-building should be.

>>47355259

Oh thank God.

>Reivers+UA now cost less than a full unit (no UA) used to cost in mk2.

I would have bet money that they never would have done that- admit that their Forces Book version of Venators was a 4/6 unit and implement that fix. Just no way.

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>>47355420
>Satyxis
Card was posted earlier

>>47355530
Fuck.
What can they do? Offensive spells? I guess sometimes that's decent. Is crippling grasp castable? If so, they with pdenny make a lot of sense.

>>47355487
The loss of AD is the big thing, imo. Can't just lock people out of a game trivially if you win the die roll any more.

>>47355847
I'm so glad this gone. Fuck Cryx

>>47355846
Crippling Grasp is an upkeep so no.

>>47355846
DJ can't cast upkeeps. WSC can. Skarlock cannot.

Krea and Drake have apparently been reduced to Arm 14. Otherwise, no changes that haven't already been spoiled.

>>47355791
I doubt he's read every card, considered every combination, found every interaction and compared them to every situation in the other factions.

>>47355892
WSC have spell slave, they cant cast upkeeps

>>47355892
WSC have Spell Slave like the Skarlock, so no upkeeps for them.

>>47355847
That's literally the only reason to play them. They are jammers so the rest of your army doesn't get shot to pieces by turn two.
>>47355884
Can you see a use for the unit now? Honestly?
>>47355663
>cryx is weakest
I think they are going overboard with most nerfs. Removal of both AD and desperate pace from Raiders makes them a pointless unit. One or the other? Sure, but both make them bad at everything.
I'm sad everything I own has been nerfed so heavily it seems they are forcing me into buying so much new stuff.

I want to pick up a Horde's faction. Would Minions or Circle pair better with Ret?

>>47355943
How do you mean pair? You have to take multiple lists of the same faction.

>>47355957
I don't mean for tournament play. I mean which would fit better for some variety.

>>47355911

Poor beasties. They really needed all the hit circles they had as it was against warnouns; now normal infantry does them in reliably too.

>>47355934
>More Cryx whining
Welcome to the rest of game. Cryx isn't the best now, but is on par with everybody else. Get used to it

>Harby's feat is no longer half the table.

GIT KEKED LAWFAGS

>>47355687

What's this from, anon?

Any changes to Thunderhead?

>>47355989
It's bellow most of what I'm seeing from non skorne factions

>>47355998
She's still bonkers though. Hell she'd be bonkers without a feat.

From Hungerford

"Care to share any insights on how the ADR casters are chosen? I am specifically interested in what sources of information are used to decided what two caster pairs are unusual or taken less frequently outside of ADR. Thanks much for any thoughts you might share."

"I wrote a super long response to this and the forum ate it :/

Here's the TLDR version; There's a lot of variables for determining the ADR lineup, but in terms of which pairings DON'T go on it we analyze competitive tournament results to determine the top percentage of caster pairings appearing in games played across each Faction.

Example: If I look at 1000 Cygnar games, and see that Sturgis 1 and Constance were the pairing in 999 of them, that means that while Sturgis 1 OR Constance are still candidates to appear on the ADR (candidacy reviewed vs other variables), the two of them should not both appear on it at the same time.

Season 4 is unique however. It's the big reset button. The tournament data from MK II has little value going into the new edition in regards to determining ADR candidacy, hence why the "back to basics" season 4 theme."

>>47356016
Everybody keeps saying Facebook or some other shit, but nobody cab be bothered to provide a fucking link.

Copy pasting it themselves is obviously the better way to get the information out.

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>>47356022
Too little.

More from Hungerford

"D&C still exists in SR, Masters, Champions, but not in IG (though you still need to play at least 2 of your 3 lists in IG if you want to make the finals)"

"Timed turns are default in SR with Deathclock being a variant option.
Deathclock is default in Masters, Champions, and IG."

>>47356051
source was provided amigo.

>>47355989
Some people just have a chip on their shoulder about Cryx because they are bad players who read on the internet that Cryx is OP and concluded that that must be why they lose all the time.

>>47356060
Literally a better castigator.
When will PP's erection for swans end?

>>47356108
How many points is the Castigator again?

>>47356095

And it was....?

>>47356102
But seriously, ask yourself, why was the WSC used? And why Raiders?
The answers? Upkeep removal and getting that one spell where it was needed. Now they removed one and severely nerfed the other.
Satyxis were a jam unit that now can't jam.

>>47356134
12

>>47356171
They were way more than a jam unit. Now they're just a really good reach unit.

>>47356182
So, the Thunderhead is literally a better Castigator, but for 20 points instead of 12. What's the problem again?

>>47356102
And some people like to repeat the same arrogant bullshit to try and justify the fact that they played a faction higher on the power curve than most

"How do you feel about blinding light being able to affect any model, including a colossal?"

"What animus do Bull Snappers have?" "Spiny Growth"

"
Darius might be the caster that convinces me to play Cygnar. He gains refuge. Power up is a huge boon. The centurion gains a mat and imprint polarity shield. I think he is going to be a fucking monster with dispel affects mitigated.

His main Achilles is that there are weapons that prevent removing damage all over the god damn place.?

Regarding Circle constructs: "Cheapish? The Wold Guardian has Shield Guard now, but a different animus. Warden doesn't hit hard, still has Geomancy at 6. Megalith is expensive but probably worth it still. Woldwrath has Sacred Ward now and got a much better gun. Woldwyrd looks pretty much the same. Watcher looks basically the same too. "

"Colossals cannot be made stationary.

I expect multiple heavies to be significantly more common than colossals"

Regarding Gorshade3:

"hes the same except siphon is cost 3. reposition 3. spell vortex is any enemy model. WJ+27"

>>47356209
I don't see one, that was some other anon. I was just answering your question, dudeguy

>>47355083
Eruption of Ash, Vengeance of the Dragonfather, Deadweight, and Lamentation make a good case for denial as well.

>>47356215
>The centurion gains a mat and imprint polarity shield.
HOLY SHIT

>>47356206
In all my games with them it was always
>they move run up into enemy units
>hold them up with reach
>die
>allow the rest of your army to survive instead of being shot up by power 10 shots

>>47356266
For me it was:
>receive AS
>stand in zone
>NEVER DIE

>>47356259
Yeah. That one change has me seriously considering Cygnar. That, and being able to go full ham on lightning guns.

>>47355663

Oh god, Menoth must be pretty bad to rank lower than mercs :(

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>>47356215


>wold wrath
>better gun
>sacred Ward
>spd debuffs don't stop charges now

>>47356266
My experience was
-Pray to god I go first.
-Run to not get shut out of scenario.
-Skarre1 feats, Raiders charge with powerswell and remove a third of my army under Dark Gudance.
-Still shut out of scenario.

>>47356297
How can they never die? It's just def 14/16. WGI shoot the shit out of them, assuming they didn't run into them first, and even then, any boosted shot has a big chance to land a shot.

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>>47356337


Mercs got buffed to fuck, they're legit now. They even called them a faction

>MFW Mk3 is the edition of Mercs being unironically meta

>>47356337
I think it's more Mercs are just super good now.

Where are you guys getting a look at all the cards?

>>47356297
>>47356266
>>47356360
Oh fuck. Messed up the quotation chain. Thought of the Centurion.

>>47356353
How does Skarre get so much reach? Her feat isn't a pulse, it's modedls currenty in the control and you under no circumstances want to run up the board with a caster already down to 2/3 of her health no matter how much focus she has. I played tons of her and if I didn't jam with Raiders I'd have 15/30 models dead in a turn.
To make things clear, she was broken as fuck, but if you got charged by her Raiders with them under the feat in turn two, you were doing something wrong.

>>47356393
We aren't, people are relaying what others who have the cards have said.

It's not a difficult concept.

>>47356428
She's focus 7. She covers 28 inches of the table with her feat. If that's not your whole army you're doing it wrong.

"Behemoth and ruin are both fantastic. The behemoth subcortex gives powerful shot. It doesn't allow separate allocation. Ruin got better and is cheaper. He will be in every god damn Khador list."

>>47356465
She's not focus 7

>Ruin got better

wat

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>>47356367


>Mercs are unironically meta

"IFP and attachments are better"

"Is the Battleboar so much better that Arkadius won't use Goraxes?" "yes yes yes a thousand times yes. Lets just say that the battleboar completely negates needing the Gorax"

"In short. Fuck Kara Sloan.

That's all I want to say on that. "

>>47356465
Focus 6. Huge difference. And the back doesn't work like that mate, she could have infinite reach of her feat where her ass is, but it won't mean much because she won't be standing on the front of the army, you want her EXACTLY 14" away from the line of the enemy you will be hitting (12" feat and bases and reach).
It covers the army, but if you got charged by the first wave of Raiders I don't know how you were playing.
I've had maybe 3 charges with them as the first wave because the opponents usually know the necessary distance.

>>47356477
>Behemoth
>Powerful Shot

There is no reaction image appropriate to describe the arousal that I am feeling at present.

>>47356367

If true, then where does it leave Menoth? Menoth wasn't exactly doing fantastic in Mark 2. Are Menoth really weaker than the rest for Mark 3?

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>tfw when all the pain and tragedy of playing Khador finally pays off

>>47356257
Huh, if I rememeber right, that's actually a bit of a nerf. Seems like they gained a point of str on the fists but lost Critical Disruption.

>>47356570


Leaves Menoth players salty that they have to use dirt cheap crusaders and awesome guardians instead of just errant spamming

Regarding Battleboars:
"It has the best animus in the game
It is bonechicken levels of cheap
It has a special ability that is so strong its feat level"

"Will I still be running two of them in my melee dudespam lists? And does the old Irusk2 brick live on?" "1. With ease. The 8 battleboar lists will live on

2. Without a doubt even BETTER at it. still does most of what he used to with a new spell that makes his dudespam brick even harder to crack. Also Khador infantry is best infantry so he got super good"

""-Any notable changes to Nemo3?

-True Sight is cool for Kara, but did they change her spell list or feat?

-What have they done with Nemo2's feat and spell list?

-Reliant worth it yet?

-What did they do to Stormcallers?

-Have the Stormguard found a reason to actually be taken yet?"

"-Nemo 3 is the most buffed Cygnar caster. For example, he gained an upkeep that stops KD, push, etc. He's great.

-How would you feel if she gained guided fire and a feat that gives +2 rat and an immediate shot for her battlegroup? If she got that, it would allows her force to shoot 3" into deployment on the top of turn one...

-not much

-they have magic range attacks instead of skill checks

-no"

>>47356618
Anything on Darius or a new Darius-esque caster?

>>47356658
lol

"What Minion caster (and it isn't Maelok, there's your one hint) do you think has a field marshal that, after a warbeast is disabled, allows it to move 3", make an attack, and then get RFP'd?"

"Minion beasts in general may be the best"

>>47356695

New thread

>>47356573

As a Skorne player I'll watch from outside in the cold as you're let inside the warm building to spend time with the others, you made it buddy, one of us made it

>>47356696
Rorsch?
Sounds like what Brine did in Mark 1

>>47355984
I currently play gators and circle and I find their play styles to mesh in terms of fun. Circle for tricksy plays and gators for pseudo brick and assassination jank.

>>47353227
Champs and Mauler look real good.

New Caster looks solid

I dig the bouncer now, him + mauler + stones might be the core of most of my troll lists. A min unit of Warders will probably be useful in most lists.

File: tears in mark 2.jpg (44KB, 635x262px)

44KB, 635x262px

new skorne feels for mark 2