Warhammer Fantasy Battle General

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>>47317319
hot topic: brets
secret pals of the woodies?
the cuckdoms of the elves?
primitives with rare values?

what's your preference?
secret pals is the only good option

>captcha: select street signs,
>there's only a big tree
fuck those trewi

>>47318020
>tfw no love story between young questing knight and wood elf seer

>>47318020
I always like to think of them as elfaboos and pretend the Lady's elvish roots was still just a matter of conjecture

>>47318020
>>47318147
The Brets want to be High Elves. They hate and fear the Wood Elves.

The Wood Elves want Brets to be stupid animals they can hunt or tame at leisure. They hate the High Elves in the same way they hate Dwarfs.

Lileath/The Lady wants the Brets to protect the Wood Elves, not fall to Chaos, and protect their Waystone.

Isha wants the Wood Elves to follow in their father's footsteps. She gives the High Elves the bulk of her magic to protect the Waystones so her favorite child race gets left alone. She doesn't think about Brets at all.

Kurnous wants the Wood Elves to be awesome. He has forgotten the High Elves exist other than those of Ellyrion who he probably thinks are Wood Elves. Brets are just the most interesting game to hunt.

The High Elves want the Brets to guard their Waystone, and want the Wood Elves to stop playing in the woods and come back to work the fields like good little peasants.

>>47318020
>what's your preference?

Giant electric Übermensch.

>>47318146
A young Bret is hiding in Athel Loren after his crusade against Archaon is destroyed. He sees a beautiful Elf Mistweaver and by luck says her name. They fall in love, partially because Lileath thought this has potential.
Orion forbids their union, and hunts the Bret but the spirits aid him by turning him into a White Hart with ironlike skin.

Orion uses a different tactic, telling him to pluck one of Slaanesh's eye nipples and bring it back. He is accompanied by insane Dryads.
The Dryads devestate Slaanesh's Daemons, which allows Nurgle to take a large chunk of his territory while the Bretonnian plucks an eye, but gets greedy and tries to take a second and third as well. Slaanesh almost kills him if not for the intervention of the Mistweaver who used illusions to convince a small army of wolf-riding Goblins she was a warboss.

The two escape, are wed according to Asrai custom which involves , and they become the parents of Araloth.

They never shapeshifted him back to human form, he's a deer still. Even Orion is horrified by the idea of Araloth's conception.

>>47318410
That's some weird beren and luthien

So, /whfb/ what are you currently working on?

>>47319298
Bloodreavers for my Khorne Marauder army.

>>47319298
A pile of Sisters of Sigmar off eBay. Not sure if I'll use them for Mordhiem or just collect each sculpt.

>>47319489
I've misspelled Mordheim also, truly a shamfur dispray.

>9th Age Wood Elf codex hits
>I get surge of inspiration and hobby drive
>Said inspiritaion and drive for some reason make me work on my Skaven army
>while I actually have Wood Elf army

what the fuck is my brain thinking?

>>47319561
It's nice to know the game will on. We might be about to hit a golden age. Hurry up and nuke 40K please GW.

>>47319637
live*

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>>47315160
>, just because you don't like a model or an artist doesn't mean that money has been cut
I sure as hell hope they didn't pay the same for this as, say, for a Kopinski piece.
It's obvious they try to save money on art.

>>47319561

You are just tempted to build an army you always wanted, but hated GW to much to start.

Now is your chance.

>>47319298
Trying to decide what knightly order to make my knightly orders box.

>>47319561
Yes-yes, listen to the voices

>>47320193

Knights Griffon bruh

>>47319887
nah, Skaven are my primary and most complete army. just working on a few things that 9th Age created + Vermintide conversions

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>tfw Mordheim
>tfw Tzeentch-worshiping Chaos warband is getting stronger

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>>47319754

>>47319561
There are no codexes in Fantasy or 9th Age. Only Army Books.

>>47322784
if it was for me I'll call them liber
short, of impact, simple and latin derived

>>47322784
i don't like word Armybook. it's too out-of-universe. Codex (or Warscroll, or Battletome, or anything else, really) sounds more in-universe.

>>47319561
Is the fluff any good? I've some time to read.

>>47317319
Whats the verdict on Orcs? 2HW seems to be the way to go, as sword n board really is too low a save to ever make much difference vs 2x the attacks.

>>47322854
didn't read into it yet, but the bits I picked up while looking through the book are pretty good

>>47322854
if it's like the tomb kings, it's all about in setting point of views: entertaining for a while, a bit repetitive on the long run.

>>47322812
No it doesn't.

Codex is Latin for book, but there is no Latin words used in Warhammer Fantasy barring English ones. Only in 40k. There is no Fantasy Administratum or other nonesense.

Words in Fantasy all have French or German roots. Or pseudo-Sindaren.

So "Buchen" is appropriate.

>>47322812
This is the setting where the planet is called "The Warhammer World".
It fits.

>>47323382
doesn't matter, "as long as it sounds foreign" and "as long as it sounds fantasy-ish" and "as long as it sounds cool"

Buchen sounds sorta retarded. Codex sounds cool. Basically, if it can be used as a name for a metal band, the word is good.

tl;dr Rule of Cool trumps logic and stuff

>>47323441
i still call it Hammerverse

>>47323653
To each their own I guess.

By association, I only hear 40k with Codex. It sounds as stupid to me as someone referring to Lords and Heroes as "HQ choices".

Also, the only decent thing Age of Sigmar gave us was the name Mallus for the world.

>>47323441
It's called "The Old World" tbqh.

>>47324778
that's only the not-europe part

>>47324778
The Old World is just the notEurope part. The world as a whole doesn't have a name other than 'The Warhammer World' (There's one diagram of the solar system where it is referred to as 'The Fated Place' in Elvish).

>>47319754

I'd assume not since that is really supposed to be akin to a map.

Personally I think people make too much of a stink about the maps in the AoS books.

>>47324893
Well apparently it's called "Mallus", and I'm very okay with that.

>>47324120

>>47325038
It's ok. It's just a kind of clumsy corruption of the latin for hammer.
Which is fine, but doesn't really make sense in-universe.

>>47324930
Fantasy only needed one.

Age hasn't gotten any. Good ones, that is.

>>47325038
>>47325224
Technically...Mallus is the name of the magic metal Sigmarite core of the twin-tailed comet. Which at some point before End Times was at the core of the Warhammer World. Probably through the Great Maw hole.

But its the closest thing we have.

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>>47325787
>Sigmarite
Blech. How much effort would it have taken to just call it Gromril?
But whatever, wrong thread for that.

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Does anyone here know OnG or Ogres in 9th well enough to give advice? I posted on the 9th age forums to little avail.

I'm trying to finish off my two 2500 lists so that I can give demo games at my LGS, but also so that I know what to purchase.

As an aside, is a Colossal Squig a good stand-in for an Orcs and Goblins giant with a Ward Save?

>>47325923
All I know is what I used in 8e, and that's this: you can never have enough Savage Orcs.

Based on what I've gotten in the past, there's no pitfalls in OnG. But I don't know 9th Age yet.

>>47326011
I have 38 Savage Orc Big Uns in that list, so I should be good.

And for 9th, OnG no longer have to take a Black Orc Big Boss tax in each unit to stop it from bickering when standing directly in front of some elves, Almost all units got buffs, and the only 'nerf' is that we lost the Lucky Shrunken Head, which was basically auto-take in 8th.

Ok so my bitz order came in today and now I'm the proud owner of 30 something Bretonnian Great Helm heads...I'm not really sure why I decided I needed them since i play skaven and the bit order I did was for some Beastmen for my warband but anyways what are some good foot knight models that i can head swap with for Mordheim, on that note what warband could i use them in?

>>47326551
Nice.

So the 8th tactica still applies then. Good to know.

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How come the Skaven don't just unleash plague after plague each year until all the humans die then pick off the rest? If they still got beat by 25% Empire, wait until 5% empire. They literally should be unstoppable.

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Tomb Kings confirmed for Keeblovers.

>>47328996
Wizards are weaker across the board, and cannons got nerfed pretty hard as well.

Not many other changes off of the top of my head.

>>47329072
>Skaven
>Long term plans

Pick-choose one, man-thing.

>>47329072
Because they backstab WAY too much for that.

If all the Pestilent Brotherhood works together, they'll all be in one place where they can sabotage each other with no survivors except the humans. If any single clan works on it, the others will recognize that clan will rise within Skaven society and all others will sabotage it.

The only time it'll ever happen is if a clan manages to do it in secret, and keep their own clan members from fucking it up while backstabbing each other.

>>47319298

Planning out a Mordheim game and shuffling in elements of other fantasy skirmish games plus more advanced systems of campaign progression, tracking, and influence because I like taking relatively simple systems and nesting them inside of other systems to create a campaign system.

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>>47329401

I should take this art piece and carve it into a foam frieze, cracking it into a few pieces and sanding it down around the edges to show age and installing it as a central element of a ruined building board for Mordheim. Possibly a game objective.

>>47329523
A lot of the rulebooks have little bits of art that are easy to ignore like that.

>>47325787

Mallus is the name for the core of the Fantasy world.

>>47325886

Because it might not actually be Gromril or Sigmarite may just be what humans call it.

>>47325923
Goblin player here. I'm not sure what to advice, it seems there aren't any must-haves or absolutely shit units any more. Case in point I only ran night goblins + normal goblin character models in 8th, now I have units of each type.

How about you post what you have so far list-wise and we try to finish it?

>>47325923

I only know what I've seen in tournaments, none of which was after 1.0 hit.

There was basically one Orcs and Goblins list run with multiple Aracnaroks and an Idol of the Gods surrounded by big units of goblins and a big 'un bunker. Goblin big bosses on squigs with 1+ armour saves seem to be the favoured way to go for warmachine hunting.

Ogres are pretty versatile, but I really like building them as MSU with 3 smallish units of mournfangs and multiple stonehorns.

If you post lists I can flick through the army books and have a look when I get back from my game tonight. My not-tombkings have some elves to smash.

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I have replaced my Orcs and Goblins army book and I'm trying to find some info on the Bloody Sunz Boyz. I don't find much of any relevant fluff online. Did the greenskin tribes have any significant fluff like they did in 40k or is it all just about the bosses?

>>47333972
>I have misplaced my army book*
Thanks autocorrect.

>>47329072
Skaven plagues have a tendency to kill as many Skaven as humans.

>>47333972
>Did the greenskin tribes have any significant fluff
nope, it was mainly color schemes

>>47333972
Fantasy tribes don't tend to last long enough to get much lore.

The exception is Skarsnik's.

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>>47334358
>>47334441
Okay, thanks. I was mostly wondering what the deal with the red face and checkers was.

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Anyone got the "Reaper" short story by Sarah Cawkwell and willing to share? It's about Valkia the Bloody and I've already been to #bookz, but they don't have it or the Chapbook 2012 from which it's originally from.

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>>47334552
The Evil Sun is a depiction of Gork or Mork. Same with the Bad Moon.

I like the theory that the greenskins picked up the sun iconography after Gorbad Ironclaw's destruction of Solland and that the Black Orc's bull iconography came from the Chaos Dwarves. That's just me though.

>>47334711
Okay, so it's all straightforward. I like that.

>>47334711
According to Age, all the greenskin gods were real. There's a shitload of aspects and related gods to Gork and Mork. The Spider God for example is a literal spider that bit Gork and became a god from his blood, and will live as long as he does.

There's also a great hunter, the Bad Moon, and like ten others at least. They have a full pantheon.

>>47334552
Meta-wise, its an old symbol of Games Workshop and appears somewhere on most of the old full-page art.

>>47334288
since when did losses bother any skaven bonzo?

>>47329072
powerful plagues would give too much weight to Pestilens and no other clan wants that. Pestilens have almost conquered Skavendom back in the day, so now the rest of skavenity are happy they fucked off into jungle to fight lizardmen, and nobody has any desire to call them back

>>47320909

kek

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>>47335074
I never liked the literal theology stuff. It just doesn't gel with the way certain gods are presented.
Manann/Mathlann, Khaine/Khorne, Shallya/Valaya, Kurnous and Isha/Taal and Rhya. Are these all distinct entities? Or is it just syncretism?

I don't mind it as the various mythologies of the people in the warhammer world, but taking it literally just seems weird.

>>47335713
I think the metaphysics entierly depends on the edition and who is writing.

>>47335713
>Are these all distinct entities

>Khaine/Khorne

Yes.

Khaine died when Tyrion was struck down.

>Shallya/Valaya

Valaya was devoured by Nagash

Shallya was Nurgle's prisoner, mutated into being the Poxfulcrum.

>Kurnous and Isha/Taal and Rhya

Taal was infected by Nurgle had to be healed by Lileath, Shallya, and Ulric

Kurnous was Orion and he died at the hands of Tyrion.

Rhya knelt besides her husband as he was suffering from Nurgle's plague.

Isha was Ariel was and she spent her time slowly dying after being poisoned by Lileath. Eventually she passed away.

>Manann/Mathlann

Mathlann died at the hands of Tyrion.

Manann made no appearance.

They are all distinct entities.

>>47335713
Compared to the early Chaos wank lore where there is only the Chaos Gods and non-Chaos mortals are retarded sheeple, anything is an improvement.

>>47335885
I didn't mind that a whole lot. The idea was that the Chaos gods were not actually truly evil and they had benign aspects to them. The strongest aspects just happened to be huge assholes.

>>47335885
go
v
>>47321052

>>47335885
I sorta agree, but at the same time I don't think End times/AoS handled the "Goodly Gods" quite right either.

>>47335876
See, this is bullshit because Khaine was always implied to have some connection to Khorne, whether they were the same entity or just that one is an aspect of the other.
Same with Manann and Mathlann except even more obvious.

Maybe that's how the background ended up, but it certainly wasn't representing the intent of many of the previous writers.

>>47336142
>this is bullshit because Khaine was always implied to have some connection to Khorne

He can still be drawn from the sphere of Khorne while being a distinct entity. Your original was whether they are distinct entities or not, not if they they related or not.

>>47336216
original question*

>>47336065
True.

They decided to try and make them Greek gods, but missed and fell into DC Comics territory.

>>47336216
I hate how every single thing has to come back to Chaos. They're the least interesting faction.

You can't have anything in Warhammer not come back to them over and over and over again.

>>47337498
Meh. I think undivided/khorne wank is boring, but if the other chaos gods actually got attention in fantasy it'd be another story.

>>47337498
That's because when Rick Priestly and another guy designed Chaos, Rick wanted Chaos to be a primordial power. So Chaos is probably supposed to be the original divinity of the cosmos before order even came into being.

>>47319298
Finishing up the conversion of my 3 x Skullcrushers ( hate the look of Juggernauts in fantasy so I'm replacing them with spawn conversions) and my 14 x Khornate Chosen.

>>47325224
It's better than nothing tbqh familam

>>47335885
This. Its one thing for everything to be connected to chaos the primordial power, that makes sense. But the way it's presented is chaos= the 4 dark brothers and everything else chaos falls under their domains. I would have preferred if the big 4 were just one pantheon of evil deities, and that all the other gods were their own distinct entities with their own realms and daemons.

>>47319298
Just finished painting my first block of 50 orcs, 2 more to go and 50 gobs and some boars and a chariot and 50 black orcs and a custom warbeast arachnarok proxy

>>47335074
>According to Age, all the greenskin gods were real.
The myths of the birth of the gods come after the creation of the realms iIrc, so that fluff isn't necessarily true for those gods as venerated in the old world.

>>47337679
Yeah, but Priestly's Chaos is a neutral force that is as good as it is bad and ultimately coming to self-destruction.
But everyone else just wanted 2deep4u mustache-twirlers that won 20 minutes ago which in their concept of time is before time began.

I dunno. I just feel like its bad writing if a setting keeps hammering the same antagonist over and over as the source of everything.

>>47338061
Age then made it worse, because everything falls under Archaon now. He's become Megatron, where you have villains doing their own thing and entities greater than him, but he remains the big boss and center of all evil.

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>Dat ending to Undying Dynasties
>Dat ending to Sylvan Elves

Empire/High Elves next!

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I just impulse-bought $200 worth of Kensei Undead.

Any chance the 9th Age guys will do Nippon I can use them as? Or would it be in bad taste to use them as Cathay?

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>>47338478
Even moustache-twirling evil can be done well. It just needs good writing.
There's a good sequence in The Wine of Dreams that I always liked:

>"The real tragedy, my newly-hatched hero, is not that the evil gods are powerful but that they are playful. I do not know whether they hate us or love us, or which of those possibilities ought to be reckoned the worse, but I do know that they like to tease us and tantalise us and test us and terrify us. Yes, they can send daemons into the world, but they do so with exceeding discretion. Yes, they delight in turning men into beasts and monsters, but they delight even more in confusion. Yes, they have powerful sorcerers at their beck and call, but they delight in letting men of that kind hope and believe, absurdly, that they are the masters, and gods and daemons their servants. They are playful, and that is the most horrible thing about them, for all the terror we experience and all the blood we shed is but play to them."

>>47339175
Zeus, Ares, Apollo, and Dionysius with the powers of the Titans who are aspects of existence itself.

So, I was reading the frst Ulrika solo book, and found it hilarious how much the Lhamian slumord's "House" resembled something a Don Bluth cartoon villain would live in, with tacky brass lamps and frayed carpets everywhere.

>>47339880
Yeah, there was a lot of fun in that story. Gives the Hammerverse a lot more life.

That's whats missing in Age of Sigmar. There's no normalcy. Just the Chaos Wastes, Outland, and Holy Terra.

>>47338568
>Or would it be in bad taste to use them as Cathay?

Japanese pirates and mercenaries were all over the far east.

>>47340146
So the Undying Dynasty Cathay thing works?

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New geheimnisnacht version for 2.5.2 out for those who didn't know

>check sylvania
>some human chucklefuck is in charge
>not even a carstein
>what
>figure vlad is dead
>go back in the carstein tree
>find him
>he's fucking unlanded for some reason
>buy favor
>he fucking accepts
>use it to invite him to my court
>i am a wood elf

I have no idea why he's unlanded but I'm about to steal that fucking ring.

>>47338494
They also already did Megatron with Abaddon in 40k. Although, Abaddon makes more sense in the way that he organises all the Chaos warbands in most of the Black Crusades rather than enforces everyone to show up. He isn't a godlike entity, he is is just a guy that wants to rule the Imperium and he needs to micromanage legions of superpowerd psychopaths to do so. At the same time Abaddon is also fucking crazy and kind of a huge asshole, but he still makes perfect sense on some level.

>>47339175
That to me confirmes that the Chaos gods is basically 4 That GM's.

>>47340813
You know what's the difference between Archaon and Abaddon? Archaon got his plotline moved forward and he won.

Both characters undertook a heroic journey and campaigned across their setting to accomplish the trials of the gods, gather treasures of Chaos, and forge their armies. It took Archaon century (discrading the time fuckery of the wastes) to finish his journey and it took Abaddo 10K years.

Archaon launched his invasion as the 13th Everchosen of the Gods and won. Abaddon is still stuck in the status quo unable to embrace his destiny. Archaon got rewarded with semi-godhood. Abaddon is stuck in stasis at Cadia.

With all of that said, both characters started as human and both struggled with the anarchy of Chaos. Both have intense fatherly abandonment issues.

>>47317319
Why the fuck they kill bretonnians/a.k.a slaves of the queen?

>>47341019
>You know what's the difference between Archaon and Abaddon? Archaon got his plotline moved forward and he won.
Because GW cheated for him several times.

>>47341035
It ha been over a year.

Stop being salty.

>>47341019

I think the difference is they set Abaddon up storywise and he has a significantly more difficult job to do.

Archaon basically just Mary Sue-ed his way to victory. It was just decided that everything would happen at once and the plug would be pulled.

>>47341019
The only reason Archaon won was that they ended the setting. Not because he was doing much better than Abaddon up until the End Times. If Abaddon wins there will be no more Imperium and the Imperium basically makes the setting what it is. So unless they do the 40k End Times, Abaddon is not going anywhere just like Archaon wasn't going anywhere.

>>47341147

He is just calling a spade a spade. The End Times would have been much cooler if they actually did some story telling instead of cramming a ton of shit in a few books and leaving half of it out.

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>>47341201
>Archaon basically just Mary Sue-ed his way to victory.

Actually, if you read the two book Archaon series, then you would know that he is far from a mary sue and that he has been through hell more so than Abaddon.

>>47341217
You missed the point of my post.

My point is that Archaon and Abaddon stand on equal levels as far as Warhammer ultimate BBEG go. Their journeys and hardships that they faced are nearly identical. It was only the movement of the whfb plot that moved them apart from each other.

Saying that Archaon is godlike and Abaddon was a human is just silly.

>>47341240
Boo fucking hoo, lost sigmarite priest. Boo. He is mary sue level 1000, he was this red button readied up to abandon the warhammer fantasy that GW prepared.

>>47341147
They pretty much plot teleported Archaon to Middenheim in the Storm of Chaos campaign. It was worth it for Grimgor's day in the sun, though.

>>47341299
Didn't they basically turn Archaon into a demigod in Age of Sigmar?

>>47341240
Abaddon is like 10000 years old. That makes Archaon a child compared to him.

>>47341324
Yeah but that's irrelevant. I am talking about Archaon before he won in WHFB.

>>47341354
Well yeah. He is basically just fantasy Abaddon before the End Times.

>>47341338
That's because Abaddon lives in a bigger setting where things progress at a snails pace.

>>47341388
Exactly.

>>47341240
>two book Archaon

I didn't read the novels, but the point I am making is that it was just decided that he would win and used just some stuff they made up to justify it.

Everyone decided for some reason to make their plays at the same time. Archaon doesn't really have any serious loses. There isn't a lull in the campaign. There are no total Order victories no push and pull. It all just happens at once. As a result it isn't very dynamic.

>>47341240
Honestly. I think Abaddon is probably a better written character than Archaon. Abaddon seems to want to rule and build something while Archaon just wanted to destroy.

>>47341455
Well, the End Times is just a mess because they are trying to tell several stories at the same time that have been built up for decades, they have to try to make them relevant to eachother and then it's all supposed to lead up to a reset button.

>>47341455
Again you miss the point. I am not referring to anything in the End Times. Literally nothing. But I guess you want to vent about the End Times anyway you might as well.

What I was talking about is Archaon's character and his quest to become the Everchosen which mirrors Abaddon's quest to be the Chaos Ascendant.

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i'm beginning to think AoS isn't just "New Coke" you guys

>>47341483
Abo wants to become the Dark Emperor and rule the galaxy

Archy wants to put a dying and corrupt world out its misery. Ending with its death, the weakness of mortals and the hypocrisy of gods, and most importantly himself as well. He hopes that the next world will be a better one where men will be free to decide their own fates without the meddling of fickle gods. A world where what happened to him will never befall anyone.

Abo sounds like a run of a mill cartoon villain. Archy sounds like a ANIME/JRPG. One is definitely more interesting than the other.

>>47341620
Obviously not the Archy edgelord.

>>47341520

You can't compare to storyline and then simply ignore a huge chunk of it. The Rocky Balboa portion of a character arc is only half of it. The actual execution counts for a huge portion.

>>47341620
Abaddon wants status. That makes him a more human and relatable character. Rather the Donald Trump of Chaos.

Archaon wants to burn everything to the ground to see if maybe that solves everything. That makes him kind of immature and an asshole. Rather the Mao Zedong of Chaos.

>>47341662
>then simply ignore a huge chunk of it.

I can because there is nothing to compare it to in the other side. If Abaddon gets his End Time storylin then we can start comparing things.

As things are, we can only compare them to each other up to the moment they are about to launch their setting ending invasions.

>>47341620
Also Abo is wholly evil and feels nothing for the millions he has killed. Abo asked for all of this. He embraced it.

Archy is warped by guilt and torment over what he is doing. Every innocent life he takes only makes his burden heavier. Somewhere inside him the good man that he was lives on, this causes him to desire to be saved or at least be stopped. He did not ask for this.

Abo is a generic villain. Archy is an anti-hero.

>>47341714
>That makes him kind of immature and an asshole

More like a desperate man abandoned by the world and backed into a corner with no options.

>>47332104
>>47332609

Here's the list. Orcs and Goblins, 2500.

Lords-(570)-
- Iron Orc Warlord (Blessed Sword, Dragonscale Helm, Talisman of Supreme Shielding, Potion of Strength, Shield, War Boar)-265
- Savage Orc Big Shaman (Fencer's Swords, Gem of Fortune, Dispel Scroll, Path of the Big Green Gods)-305

Heroes-(215)-
- Feral Orc Chief (Battle Standard Bearer, Screaming Swords, Mithril Mail, Waaargh! Paint)-130
- Goblin Shaman (Level 2)-85

Core-(813)-
- 38x Feral Orc 'Eadbashers (Champion, Musician, Veteran Standard Bearer, Banner of Speed, Mammoth Stabber, Paired Weapons)-468
- 20x Orcs (Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Crossbows, Heavy Armour)-200
- 5x Forest Goblin Raiders(Shields, Light Lances, Shortbows)-75
- 5x Forest Goblin Raiders(Shields, Light Lances, Shortbows)-75

Special-(618)-
- 13x Mounted 'Eadbashers (Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Stalker's Standard, Shields, Heavy Armor)-348
- Splatterer-90
- Splatterer-90
- Git Launcher-90

Rare-(285)-
- Gnasher Wrecking Team-65
- Gnasher Wrecking Team-65
- Giant (Ward Save)-155


I'm unsure about the level 2 shaman, as I think my level 4 would eat all of the magic dice.

The only models left in this list left to purchase are the giant (colossal squig) and the goblin shaman (who would join the crossbows)

Should I post my Ogres next?

>>47341897
>More like a desperate man abandoned by the world and backed into a corner with no options.

Sounds like a forced narrative to me.

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>>47341929
>forced narrative

More or less.

>>47341965
Ah, the textbook example of how to not write your character.

>>47341897
So Archaon is just a huge pussy with no control over his life? Got it.

>>47319754

Are all those blood rivers flowing from extradimensional sources? That would be a metric fuckton of continual exsanguination if not.

And does the presence of evil make the mountains so spikey?

I do like the City of Lost Souls, appears to be some sort of grandiose ancient civilization that ended when their magic opened a rift to another dimension, (assumed to be the Warp.)

>>47341557
Just ignore AoS posts. I just considering everything after the 7'th edition to be non canon.

>>47341754

And see now you have missed my point. They are paired up. Both invasions have been launched. Abaddon has had to deal with counter moves and has had to hatch secondary plans. There is no auto win button for him. There are a million things that have to happen for Abaddon to tear down the Imperium.

Archeon doesn't have to do any of that. As a result it is completely irrelevant how powerful he was or what struggles to gain such power. He just had to get to one city and pull the power cord out. Then he auto wins. That what makes him a Mary Sue.

http://gameranx.com/features/id/54400/article/total-war-warhammer-review/

Very positive review of Total Warhammer.

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>>47341714
>Mao Zedong
>wanting to burn everything to the ground

He believed himself to be founding a new world so he destroyed old institutions and established new ones to replace them. He didn't just burn shit down, that's a very simplified version of the Chinese revolution.

>>47340811
>all those claims
you could take over the whole of sylvania with that

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>>47317319
Does anyone know if there was a supplement for WHFRP2e that let you create your own spells?

>>47319754
the fuck is this

>>47342387
Cool, I'll probably get it once I can upgrade my toaster.

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What is the best Skaven Clan?

>>47347257
Is that even a question? Skyre.

>>47341240
he literally died multiple times during his journey. he only managed to do it because Belakor kept loading previous safe.

>>47343016
Sounds just like Archaon then. I bet they have the same haircut.

>>47341032
Brets are slaves to the princess.

The king hunts them for fun. The queen gives no fucks.

>>47347257
Septik. None impurer.

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>Archaon hero argument.

To sum it up, Archaon found out he was destined to become evil, so he begged his god to personally appear and tell him it isn't true even though literally nothing like that has ever happened before, and when that didn't happen he went on his prophesied route.

He then found out from words written on an ancient evil altar that there is no gods, only Chaos. Which he almost immediately discovered was untrue, but he held onto that emotion of abandonment anyway.

He then found out he was the product of rape by Chaos rapists, which tore him to pieces inside because apparently being an abandoned baby didn't make him assume the story was unpleasant.

So then some asshole Daemon appears and says because he manipulated everything in his life he considers himself his father. This makes him mad and refuse to be evil. But the Daemon reveals he'll Groundhog Day that shit until he gets what he wants.

So then Archaon decides "fuck it" and he'll just destroy the world because apparently if he has had that bad a life, it is everyone else's fault for being so mean.

So then he destroys the world. He literally becomes the physical manifestation of the pissy emo emotions and destroys whole universes because he's still mad that things exist.

Then he finds not all of the first world was destroyed and has been rebuilt into a utopia and he decides "FUCK THAT, THERE IS NO BEAUTY, ONLY PAIN, KILL EVERYONE" and once again recruits the worst people there are and leads them to kill noncombatants, but this time his end goal is to kill EVERYONE once and for all so he can make a new world only populated by people who will remember his birthday and sing him somgs all day.


tl;dr he's Seymour from Final Fantasy 10 and Judge Death combined, with none of the personality of either

>>47348684
Seymour at least thought that everyone would be better off being dead. Hell, it worked out pretty good for him.

>>47348684
In a bunch of alternate timelines, Archaon doesn't become the everchosen, but belakor resets it until we get the one where he does destroy the world. While this concept is stupid in a variety of ways, it does leave us with question of what the other worlds look like. Worlds where archaon doesn't have belakor retconing his life until he HAS to become the everchosen. I think Valten mentioned that it was Kastner, not him, that was supposed to be the one to wield ghal maraz and free the world from chaos

>>47337498

It made some sense in the way it was explained and felt oddly fitting for how ultimately grim both 40k and Fantasy are.

>>47338478

If Chaos is bad rather than neutral it's because people made it that way. Well, that is how it goes in 40k at any rate. I'm not sure if it was ever explained why the Chaos gods in Fantasy were bad right from the start.

>>47338494

What falls under Archaon that didn't already fall before?

>>47341019

The real difference is that Abaddon has better motivation overall and has actually been built up.

Archaon is a literal who that didn't show up until the 5th or 6th Editions of Fantasy and whose lore was mostly about why he left and how he collected his artifacts and maybe whatever was in Liber Chaotica. GW then did nothing until the last few years when they had an author shit out out 2-3 books for him.

He is a bad villain with unclear motivations whose only redeeming feature is that he looks kind of cool.

>>47347257
Skyre for a short life.

>>47348733
Giving him that power was stupid as fuck.

Why the hell is he the only Chaos being that can do this?

>>47348761
Chaos in fantasy just exists. Same empowered by emotions thing, but the Chaos Gods actually are timeless in that they always existed.

Archaon is now the only true antagonist. Al other sides are just dicks to each other, but are wholly in opposition to him. Even the gods of Destruction got along with Order in the past tense anddo not hate Order more than Chaos and they are more in conflict with Archaon than Order because Archaon is the one invading.

No more Dark Elves, greenskins, Vampire Counts as the villains. Skaven, Beastmen, Daemons, and Warriors are now all his subordinates.

He is the Megatron, the guy who is so much of an asshole that he was made king of all assholes.

>>47348761
>whose only redeeming feature is that he looks kind of cool.

Not anymore, that new model for him is one of the absolute worst I've ever seen. That's not an overstatement, I really mean it. The design is terrible, the concept is stupid, and the color scheme is offensive to the eyes like early 40k Space Marine paint schemes.

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>>47348684
That's spot on. Archaon is basically the entitled and selfcentered evermanchild of Chaos because the world didn't grant all his wishes by default. Apparently the world is a bad place because bad things happened to Archaon and he decided that if he wasn't gonna be happy, no one else would get to be happy. Nevermind that good things happens to other people all the time and that adults are required to deal with their traumas in constructive ways if they want to enjoy life. His first god Sigmar also turned out to be real and even did meet him in person and thus an impossible wish of Archaon was made true by the world. But Archaon still insists on that his tantrum is justified and goes ahead with his egotistical scheme anyway.

Archaons original concept of just being a religious man that lost his faith was fine. People in the real world will do all sorts of insane things based on their faith. All this sulking rubbish they added just makes him a worse character and they turned him into the Elliot Rodger of Warhammer.

>>47348717
Yeah, being dead in Spira just seems to make you stronger every day. It's like being a vampire that doesn't need to drink blood or have any weakness. There is only gains.

>>47348761
>GW then did nothing until the last few years when they had an author shit out out 2-3 books for him.

Books that developed Archaon more than GW ever did to Abaddon in the last decades and made him an actual character.

Abaddon wasn't built up. His legend was built up but the character wasn't developed, we never got to know him or relate to him. He is a non-character. There is an obvious disconnect between the HH Abaddon and the 40K Abaddon but we never got to learn what caused this. The guy is full of holes.

Maybe the Black Legion will remedy this but I don't think so because the protagonist of those books is not Abaddon!

>>47348733
There is no alternative timelines, Be'lakor simply rewrote reality to allow Archaon to continue his journey. Erasing his deaths.

>>47338568
Yes I'm sure they said that once the original army books (plus Chaos Dwarfs) were to a reasonable standard they would look at brining back Dogs of War and creating new books such as Cathay.

>>47348828
>Why the hell is he the only Chaos being that can do this?

Tzeentch controls the Timestream.

Be'lakor is 1/4 Tzeentch

>>47341985
Also the textbook example of how to scream with rocks.

>>47347257
> clan Moulder
> clan Skully

No GW please.

>>47348900
That's how i lile it.

I want my dark herald of doom to be abstract and menacing. A threat looming on the galaxy that does not need to be explained because abaddon is there, he's always there, waiting and plotting

If you give the bad guy character you end up ruinining it. Just like archaon

>>47348828
It's like they turned Be'lakor into the authors self-insert character who shows up to bully a fictional character and then boast about his ability to edit fiction. It's probably one of the worst presented plot points I have ever seen in Warhammer.

Or maybe Be'lakor is an allegory for Kirby that is ruining everything and Archaon is an allegory for what the GW studio has become?

>>47348917
Already proved that it wasn't him.

Archaon slew Be'lakor by stabbing him with his own hand.

Daemons that are slain need 1 year and 1 day to reform in the Realm of Chaos in the Forge of Souls before being able to regain their body and invade the mortal world.

This means it was impossible for Be'lajor to have been present in the WD event. Checkmate.

>>47348863
Nagash is pretty much a bad guy is plotting to backstab Sigmar and destroy Archaon.

After he defeats both Archaon and Sigmar, Nagash will turn the Mortal Realms into his empire of death and then he will challenge the Chaos Gods.

There is Gordrakk whose evergrowing Waaaagh! is said to have a potential to be more a threat to the mortal realms than Archaon himself and his armies.

>>47348951
B-B-But muh pterodactyls...

>>47348883
It's true. Neo-Archaon is one of the ugliest things I have ever seen GW create. The 6'th editon model has great composition and the sculpting is top notch. The new one is the opposite of that and to top it off it's also expensive,

>>47348942
Not necessarily, Horus had boatloads of charisma and that just made it even better when he slaps his own legions shit.

>>47348972
Daily reminder that he was voted as best model of 2015.

>>47348951
Time moves differently in the realm of Chaos. He could potentially rematerialise again the very same minute he is killed.

>>47348984
The voting was as flawed and forced as his victories

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>>47348984

>>47348984
According to who?

>>47347257
Skurvy and volkn are underrated

>>47349016
You missed the end of the year WD where they showed the result of the vote for the 20 best models of 2015?

So Archaon is pretty much a cuck?

>>47349031
Oh, that explains it. I don't buy the WD because I think it's a mediocre publication and a waste of money.

>>47349031
Oh that explains it, so it was GW shill's model of the year?

So ok, i kinda organized a party with me being GM, because a few people wanted to play.

Suddenly fucking everyone wants me to GM and i have like 10 people wanting to play. The fuck? Should i just make 2 parties and have each play their own story or something? I never expected so many people actually being into this shit.

I mean im pretty new at this GM thing as well, and i really dont want to run more than 5-6 people.

>>47348984
by who?

>>47349031
Wasn't the Verminlord released at the begining of 2015 and that was a better model?

>>47349041
>archaon
>bloodthirster
>ghostkeel
Yes

>>47349032
>got laid
>achieved everything he set out for and more
>wrested the control of his destiny from his father
>the Chaos Gods cannot control him
>it's possible he will get a redemption arc in the future which will absolve him of all his sins

Far from it.

He is on a roll.

>>47349045
Players and hobbyist. They even wrote in emails to explain their choices. IIRC. Archaon got 60% of the vote.

>>47349062
Call me a faggot but I actually liked the last two.

>>47349044
Gm both groups, but each group is not aware of where or who the others are even when the groups meet in game, and make them compete for the same things
mordheim campaign

>>47348979
>Horus had boatloads of charisma
And no brains.
It was painful reading the HH books with him.
He acted like a complete retard.

>>47349074
Well, only people with shit taste would buy the neo-WD.

>>47349065
>>achieved everything he set out for and more
He didn't make the world a better place, quite the opposite actually.

>>47349094

Oh boy, that was kind of what i was thinking about doing.

>mordheim

Might be fun. Was even thinking of letting one party running into the carnage another cause or cause another party issues.

>>47348863

>Chaos in fantasy just exists. Same empowered by emotions thing, but the Chaos Gods actually are timeless in that they always existed.

That really wasn't my question, my question was more what made Chaos go from neutral to evil. 40k at least has the explanation that the War in Heaven is what kicked things off.

Also Chaos stomped over Order, Death, and Destruction in AoS and that is the only reason they're possibly united against it. Last I knew, Order was still working to get the other two on board and if that happens it's probably only going to be until one or both feel that Chaos is weak enough.

>>47348883
>>47348972

Eh, I saw a Golden Daemon paint job of him from Warhammerfest that made him look good. Then again I'm not one who finds it impossible to like both old and new models.

>>47348900

Books that are pretty much in the same tier as the End Times in which its hard to believe that they matched up with GW's intentions.

Even still that doesn't excuse how he is their big bad and they sit on their hands with regards to him for years.

Honestly I'm not even sure I'd give a damn if he had a character, just make his motivations clear.

Going by what GW has written, Abaddon has a grudge with the Emperor and wants to succeed where Horus failed, that is something a person can get behind.

Abaddon read some book (The details of which we're never given) and then just decided to throw his lot in with Chaos and suddenly became the big bad.

He is a piss poor villain and Fantasy would have been better off with him in the trash and a focus put on the champions of each of the gods who somehow manage to be more interesting and appealing than Archaon despite even less being written about them.

Fuck, even Tamurkhan is more interesting.

>>47349041

Or maybe people just like the model and the internet is the minority?

It was a top 10 list and only 2 (3 if you count the Bloodthirster) AoS products managed to get on the list.

>>47349080
Faggot
they're not bad, but they are far from having any right in reaching the top 5 remembering it also was the year of the mevhanicus release

>>47349074
GW and FW admitted they just make up the best sellers list, I seriously doubt that they didn't just ask a few people in the office and make it up.

>>47349096
How so? Chaos obviously played him like a damn fiddle!

>>47349112
His intention was for the next world to better place. Indeed, the mortal realms were that until Sigmar arrived to the mortal realms and brought his fellow gods to it.

>>47349139
>obviously played him like a damn fiddle!
Yes, so obviously that even he saw through it. Until he decided that he will fall for it anyway.
>HAHA, I CAN SEE THROUGH YOUR LIES, YOU WON'T FOOL ME
>Except I will believe it anyway.

>>47349096
That's what happens when an author with lesser intelligence writes a character that's suppose to be very intelligent.

I couldn't even finish the Fulgrim book because Fulgrim as a character felt like a 10 feet tall 15 year old with a strong personal disorder. He has no business leading military operations. And that was before he got the demon sword that made him and everyone else around him retarded. Hell, even Ferrus seemed like an idiot because he had decided he was above gathering intelligence on an enemy he has pursued for an extended period of time and failed to engage.

Black Library fleshing out key characters in the settings was a mistake.

>>47349120
>Eh, I saw a Golden Daemon paint job of him from Warhammerfest that made him look good. Then again I'm not one who finds it impossible to like both old and new models.

Any highly skilled painter can make an otherwise bad looking mini look amazing. Most people are not gonna paint the model at a high level.

>>47349156
So Archaon pretty much exclaimed that he was only pretending to be retarded before he went full retarded?

>>47345178
There wasn't. Realms of sorcery just states to balance them as the gm thinks is just

>>47349120
>Honestly I'm not even sure I'd give a damn if he had a character, just make his motivations clear.

They sat on Abaddon for far longer. One line does not make a good BBEG.

>Abaddon read some book (The details of which we're never given) and then just decided to throw his lot in with Chaos and suddenly became the big bad.

It's more than that and you get to know everything in the books that you refuse to read for some arbitrary reason.

Suffice to say, the reason for his fall to evil and prime motivator, which was restated in a recent WD, is hos feeling of abandonment by Sigmar. When Sigmar did not respond to his prayers and save him.

So like Abaddon, Archaon has a grudge against a distant father figure.

>>47349059

Each Verminlord was probably a separate model.

>>47349121

Much like the above and apparently the Stormcast, Mechanicus probably got screwed over by being spread out too much. Apparently everything in the range got a vote.

>>47349125

I don't see what purpose they would have to make up a best seller's list. Not to mention most things largely coincide with what the current trend seems to be. Space Marines and Tau being popular in 40k for example.

>>47349175

I don't even find GW's paintjob to be bad.

Like a lot of what GW puts out, he is in the middle for me. Some things about it I like, some I don't or just don't care about. I seem to be able to find a neutral center compared lots of other online who either think the models are sent from heaven or more usually think the model itself it meant as a personal insult.

>>47349186
The dude you are replying to is talking about Horus.

>>47349215
>I don't even find GW's paintjob to be bad.

I find most of their paintjobs on their homepage to look bad, but I'm also fairly sure that they saturate a lot of the colours in editing. One of the worst paintjobs they display on their homepage is the bright white Tau against the bright white background of their homepage.

>>47349186
>So Archaon
Horus. He said he knows he's being rused and then he still went full retard. Like some stupid anon starting his post with "I know this is a bait" and then still biting.

>>47349162
>the Fulgrim book
I usually don't do it but I had to take a few breaks while reading it. Seriously, they mostly just shat all over the Primarchs in the books, which would be fine if they still pretended that 40k wasn't to be taken seriously at any point.

I do enjoy ADB's chaos stuff though.

>>47349120
>Fantasy would have been better off with him in the trash and a focus put on the champions of each of the gods

Yes, a focus on champions like Valkia, Sigvald and Villitch leading their own chaos hordes is a lot more interesting than one guy leading an army that could BTFO anyone with minimal effort. I don't know why they need to fully unite chaos to make them a threat, Any suitably large horde with a good leader will pose a huge threat to the civilized realms. Tamurkhan and Mortkin both could have ruined the empire if not stopped at a pivotal moment.

>>47349226
I was just bringing up a Horus Heresy book in general. All the primarchs are supposed to be great leaders in their own way and Black Library often writes them as complete morons.

>>47349257
Speaking about Primarchs and Archaon

>Q : As well as your Archaon novels, you're also known amongst Black Library readers for your Horus Heresy fiction. But who would win in a fight between Archaon and a primarch?

>Rob Sanders : "Going to upset some folks either way on this one! I think it has to be Archaon. Think about it this way. All of the traitor primarchs were primarchs like their loyalist brothers before they turned to Chaos – and yet they still turned. They were the princes of the galaxy, the generals of colossal armies and the product of genetic engineering that bestowed upon them incredible gifts and abilities. Yet still about half of them turned to the Ruinous Powers. As the Everchosen of the Chaos gods, Archaon is ruin incarnate. He is chosen of all Chaos, not a single power like many of the favoured traitor primarchs"

Archaon > Primarchs

Guys, how would you explore and expand the ogre kingdoms' themes?


Personally I'm somehow stuck in thinkering about millipedes-like swarms representing agents of the great maw and mutated, almost zombie, samurai ogres who are those who get willingly devoured by the maw and their bodies returned to still serve his will.

>>47349240
I havn't read a whole lot of the Horus Heresy books and I generally don't like what I see. I liked the first half of the Unrembered Empire audiobook, though. It has Rowboat Gorillaman facing an actual difficult decision regarding the future of the Imperium, which he rightfully struggles with. Then Lion El Johnson shows up and the stupidity increases again.

A bunch of cool ideas that ultimately ends up flawed or ruined seems to be the BL Horus Heresy in a nutshell.

>>47349249

I kind of wish that Priestly had not left or at the very least GW had gone through with his plan of advancing or ending the setting. I think something involving Tamurkhans three other brothers would have been more interesting than the End Times.

>>47349274
Nevermind that Horus also became the chosen of all Chaos and became far stronger than any of the primarchs. This confirms that the authors don't know the settings they are writing for.

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>>47349323
The reason why Archaon is greater than Horus is pretty much the same reason why Abaddon is greater than Horus. (picture related).

Horus allowed to himself to become nothing more a puppet for the Chaos Gods. They named him the "Sacrificed King" and ushered him to his death, laughing at him all the way.

Archaon and Abaddon have the incredible willpower to defy the Chaos Gods and never truly become their servants. They are the Kingmakers that dictate the direction of Chaos whether the Chaos Gods will it or not. They are what we call the Masters of Chaos, not its slaves.

For a pawn to take a king is ridiculous.

>>47349323

For a decent number of them it's just a paycheck and a way to get their writing out there.

Off the top of my head, ADB is familiar with 40k or at least did his research and there have been other authors who came in via pitching an idea to BL that would require having knowledge of the settings.

I think lack of knowledge is why Abnett's books come off as if they're not entirely grounded in the universe.

>>47349374
>I think lack of knowledge is why Abnett's books come off as if they're not entirely grounded in the universe.
This. His stuff would work a lot better if not for the setting which he tries to ignore most of the time.

>>47349389
Name the stuff that he ignored.

>>47349374
I think a fundamental problem is that BL also requires the book to have an action quota. So the authors are forced to pace their books in a certain way because BL thinks their customers has a short attention span. So all their books kinda feels the same.

>>47349367
>abbadon and archaon are not slaves

There's not a single thing they do that isn't somehow the will of chaos, you can't be more of a slave than that.

>>47349401
The last Church didn't have action in it.

>>47349408
That's just what I heard from an author that wrote for BL. Generally they go with the logic "It's Warhammer not Intriguehammer."

>>47349404
Archaon does his thing and he has warred with and against Chaos for aeons. The Chaos Gods got tired and fearful of Archaon and sent numerous champions to kill Archaon until they eventually gave up and acknowledged once again as their Everchosen. In fact, the Chaos Gods got Archaon to lead their armies in the mortal realms by swearing to him that everything he conquers in their name in the realms will belong to him.

Abaddon seeks to betray the Chaos Gods in the future and make Chaos's victory his own. The Weeping Girl told him that the Chaos Gods will destroy him for his treachery.

They are slaves to the gods, they are business partners in a joint-venture with an eventually backstabbing in the end.

>>47349418
>Intriguehammer

The Beast series is 85% Intrigue. The author must be one of those short story interns.

>>47349436
They are not slaves*

>>47349445
I think it was the guy who wrote the Vampire Wars triology. They told him for the last book to tie up any loose ends (which meant killing off or removing all of the original characters he made up for the last two books to not potentially upset the status quo) and that it also needed much more action than the last two books. So naturally the third book is the most contrived out of the bunch and the pacing is awkward. I'm sure that a lot of this is because of the authors own shortcomings, but I also find it unprofessional that BL wouldn't make this clear to him that this was the policy after he was two books into a triology.

>>47349065
>sells out the mortal realms interest to foreign alien invaders

Archaon is a cuck.

>>47349530
You

see

>>47349436

Archaon is claiming the mortal realms for himself alone. He is not alien invader. The mortal realms are his legacy and the legacy of the Realm of Chaos.

>>47349546
AoS is not canon.

>>47349561
Then why did you mention the mortal realms?

>>47348684
>He then found out from words written on an ancient evil altar that there is no gods, only Chaos.

Isn't that true, though?

Aren't all the gods basically egregores, including the Chaos Gods?

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GW hires you to undo AoS and restore the Old World.

However, you cannot simply retcon The End Times or AoS.

You must restore the Old World in a way consistent with the current "story".

What do?

>>47349753
The guy never read the novels, he just writing what other anons told him and misremembering it.

Archaon visited the Altar of Ultimate Darkness and found that it had four pillar that represent the Chaos Gods and between these four pillars there were pillars that represented numerous other deities. Some of them Archaon recognized and some he did not. He didn't care about it and just finished his quest and left.

>Isn't that true, though?

Yes, it's true. All forms of divinity ultimately come from the Realm of Chaos, one way or another.

>>47349795

Have the Aelvish forces launch, with the help of allies a sudden sneak attack on Tzeench's most secret bastion.

Realizing that he is in danger of losing everything like Slannesh did, have Tzeench call upon magic that is beyond even his fine control to warp the worlds and to turn back the clock for another chance.

The chaos gods find themselves back before that, in the old world...severely weakened by the cost of the magic right as the end times is happening. As a result their forces falter and fail and a new timeline starts as they need to rebuild power.

>>47349795
something happens that causes all mortal realms to smash into each other coincidentally forming a new planet that looks the same as warhammer world.
all races start calling themselves with their old names to honour their ancestors or some bullshit
all big players have most of their power sucked away for some reason.
most stormcasts get permanently destroyed and can't be resurrected anymore because Sigmar lost nearly all of his power.
can't be bothered to write anymore

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>>47349795
That's not too hard really. I think most of the pieces are already in place.

Just say the Warhammer cosmology is cyclical. The Mortal Realms are doomed, the Slann create a brand new universe and enter it via warp gates to escape the destruction.
Surprise, it turns out they were the Old Ones all along and the world they created is the Warhammer World. The whole thing starts all over again, except that it's a tiny bit different. Maybe this is the Storm of Chaos timeline or Tamurkhan or Blood Bowl.

>>47349795
>five thousand year time skip
>opens in a world with strong and prosperous eternum elves living in a reclaimed naggaroth
>two thousand year long reclamation war, malakeith used athel loren to take back naggaroth from khorne, trees formed the chaff of the elven armies and the elves spiked bloodthirsters and enacted banishment rituals until it was officially out of khornate hands. use the world roots to travel to distant battelfields.
>undead are now a series of corpse empires, ruled over by barrow kings or vampire lords. Summoning the new athel loren sucked their land dry of life and allowed the undead to overwhelm the humans who once lived in their lands.
>chaos is being pushed back universally
>skaven are everywhere, skyre absorbed moulder and pestilence while eshin remains the only other greater clan due to the elusiveness of its members
>dorfs allied with the empire, sought refuge in nuln and built a giant ass skaven proof fortress underground. Produce arms for the empire.
>empire are less fantasy germany and more fantasy pilgrims, have absorbed bretonia and kislev as elector states.

Turning warhammer into a setting for epic battles rather than a story based around a few of gws characters essentially.

>>47349300
The Maw is not intelligent or a real god though.

>>47349367
Chess analogies fall flat because nothing is ever allowed to take a king.

Real kings have been killed by peasants before.

>>47341906

It looks fine, but I think you need more chaff. With so many points invested in your two big units you're risking being outmanouvered and having them flanked and taken out one at a time. Particularly with frenzy on the feral orcs, which can easily be dragged olut of position by forcing charges and overruns.

The two units of spider riders you have will be easily cleared and whilst the gnashers are a good choice, they rarely do more than to draw out shooting or kill a chaff unit.

>>47349795
Since they are pushing Archaon's redemption, how about he redeems himself and gets Be'lakor's time powers which he uses to retcon himself out of existence at the start of his fall, creating a timeline without Be'lakor or Diederick becoming Archaon.

To justify the new models, Sigmar returns and creates a small number of Stormcast Eternals.

Nagash ascends, although without the sacrifice of Huss or the Everchild. He manages to bind just part of the Wind of Death to himself anyway, becoming a demigod rather than a god so he can still get Dread Abyssals to give to Neferata, Mannfred, and Arkhan plus thd Morghasts.

>>47350897
isn't it the psyche of the ogres? doesn't veneration give power to similar conglomerations of concepts?

>>47349795
I shove mutliverses in there: the old ones chose the warhammer world because of its peculiar place in the multiverse, sorta like a minimum common denominator, the history of the warhammer world repeated more or less similarly on almost all of those places, in some history went as the storm of chaos said, in others the end times happened and the wind of those universe reunited with the conglomeration that forms the realm (so that there's only one series of mortal realms shared by the universe, similarly to chaos being the same), the multiverses and the numerous worlds contributing to the mortal realms would explain the great number of survivors, the wide range of species and cultures, on top of the strenght of the gods that get empowered by all those realities; during the late stages of the wars for the mortal realm, the gods of order gain more consciousness about how all this stuff work (while the chaos gods were obliterating the planets silently and separately and the god that represents archaon is attacking the realms), so the gods of order try to interfer with what they consider to be the warhammer world that has the most chances of surviving the end times and being able to bring forth wathever unity, deus ex machina or spiritual advancement the old ones engineered the old world and the race in it to accomplish.

the mortal realms start interacting with the newly refound warhammer world at the time of the great catastrophe, with the event roughly being a crossing point between the entrance of chaos in the world and the creation of the mortal realms in the aether (time flow differently as plot demands).
in practical terms both the mortal realms and the warhammer worlds are battlefields to fight in, sigmar reveals himself as a god only after having lived his normal story being cast in the warp by tzeentch and gaining consciousness of what the fuck it's going on, archaon lines up with the archaon as envisioned in the mortal realms the moment he is crowned

>>47351053
The only belief magic in Fantasy is Savage Orcs, and that only grants a Ward Save.

>>47349566
Because the material/mortal world has always been separate from the realm of Chaos even before Age of Sigoober.

>>47351442
>The only belief magic in Fantasy is Savage Orcs
Are you disregarding the realm of chaos books?

>>47351776
The old as fuck, heavily retconned ones?
That were left in the dust before Ogres became an army?

>>47352027
Bullshit. I just grabbed the nearest book (Tome of Corruption) and flicked through it for a quote.

>Apparitions are formed from these same emotions, but are defined by the common myths and legends that have circulated amongst spellcasters since the Elves first dabbled with the Winds of Magic. They are what the Magister expects to see and nothing else. With each legend of the Dark Hounds or sightings of the AllKnowing Serpents, Magisters unconsciously look for these things, casting out their witchsight to see if they are being watched by their enemies, by the Daemons who lurk in the shadow of every spell they cast. Hence, they are both real and unreal; they are the manifestations of expectations, of the pervasive terror of what lies beyond the veil of reality.

Now, maybe it was retconned in the last few years of Warhammer's existence. But if something has been true for the majority of the game's history then I feel it has more weight than some author deciding to change it all on a whim.

>>47349808
Yet End Times proved all Divinity actually stems from mortals taking the mantles of gods.

>>47349994
Sigmar rescues Grungi.

Tyrion the blind god of Light finds Vaul.

Vaul and Grungi forge the mortal realms together, sealing the gods away from Mortals.

Chaos gets angry at this, causes cracks.

Queue new Warhammer world with Good gods still around.

So I am going for an all mounted chaos army.

Marauder horsemen, should I use them in units of 5 or 10?

>>47341906
I could cut the Git Launcher to take a third squad of spiders, would that cut it?

>>47350942
>>47352926
I fucked up the linking.

>>47352027
>The old as fuck, heavily retconned ones?
being old doesn't make them retconned
having retconned bits don't make the whole retconned
the warp works that way, none will try to say otherwise
they're the only good things about chaos too

>>47352758
I hate when someone goes "yet" and don't understand the context he is talking about.

>all Divinity actually stems from mortals taking the mantles of gods.

The Elven Gods were defeated by the Chaos Gods and this forced them to escape into mortal world where they adopted mortal forms or embedded their essences inside mortal avatars. Of all the Elven Gods only three might have been pure mortals at one point and they are Asuryan, Isha, and Ereth. The whole mantling business might have an improvised way to continue the cycle because the Old Ones meddling in the world screwed things up royally for everyone involved.

The human gods of all cultures origins are unknown.

Gork and Mork origins are unknown.

Great Maw is unknown.

Sigmar was made into the first Incarnate unwittingly or willingly by Tzeentch when he trapped him inside the winds of heavens.

Nagash is a self made god.

No idea what's the deal with the dwarfen "gods" and why they were so powerful. The lore doesn't go into their history.

So of all the gods in the setting. Nagash, Sigmar, Asuryan, Ereth, Isha, and possibly the dwarfen gods are the only dudes who are mortals who ascended to godhood. That is not all and even then their power stems from the Realm of Chaos one way or another.

>>47353066
>No idea what's the deal with the dwarfen "gods" and why they were so powerful. The lore doesn't go into their history.

Well, they're called the Ancestor Gods for a reason.
The dwarfs at least believe that Grungni, Valaya and Grimnir were the first dwarfs and that they're all descended from those three. Even humans have some other 'ascended mortal' gods like Ranald and possibly Myrmidia.
But yeah, it's far from universal.

>>47353222
Even Ranald's not 100%

There's some stories of Ranald and Ulric paling around BEFORE Shallya existed for him to trick her into making him a god.

(In Children of the Horned Rat)

>>47353492
The lesson is GW continuity is a clusterfuck mess, and arguing about what is truly canon will always be an argument.

We can discuss, but there is no truth to be had.

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I'm at a tournament tomorrow, and since I play skaven I thought it'd be a nice idea to bake warpstone cookies for everyone.

Turns out that food colouring doesn't survive the baking process. FML.

>>47353986
Nice try though anon. Taking food makes people happy!

Is that a before/after pic? or are the green ones what you took out of the oven?

Perhaps if you did it again you could use icing instead. Rather than going green all over, put blobs of green icing on top and draw it out sideways with a toothpick or something to make it less circular. Also do this when they've cooled else you get melted icing everywhere.

Also, blue-cheese nibbles? warpcheese! Blueberry muffins too. Or if you want to try muffins, inject small amounts of icing into the sides of them after baking to have little coloured non-fruit pockets. Like they do for doughnuts.

Note I'm not a particularly good chef, just random ideas.

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>>47353986
Next time, use green tea chocolate chips.

>>47353882
In this case it's more that the people in the world have different beliefs. Some believe that Sigmar was the only ascended mortal god and as such Ranald cannot have been mortal.

Even that story in Children of the Horned Rat contradicts the Doom of Kavzar. So who knows.

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Is Nagash's stupid stovepipe pope bone hat based on anything Egyptian? Of is it just something to look bigger?

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>>47354431
This cranked up to eleven perhaps?

>>47354234
My baking tray wasn't big enough for all the dough, so the green ones in the bottom are pre-cooked, the ones on the baking sheet post-cooked.

I did consider icing, but thought the actual dough being green would look better. Learnt my lesson. Thanks for the ideas and support anon!

>>47354345
Duly noted.

>>47354577
Thanks.
I'm assembling one (it was 75% off) and was trying to find a way to make it not look stupid and failing.

>>47354431
I'm gonna trim my down to look less retarded.

>>47354345
>>47354585
Yeah that's a good idea!

I support people like you, so you don't give up. It's all learning. I'd personally reduce the thickness slightly and do more batches, then you can cook a few quickly rather than waiting for lots and accidentally burning a few. Looks like the front few have caught on the edges but the back few are slightly less done.

>>47353986

That's kinda strange, because some food coloring absolutely would survive most baking. I suppose it depends on the recipe, time, temp, and type of colorant though.

Hope they tasted good at least!

>>47350999

No need for Sigmar. Balthazar Gelt was binding Necromancy with his lore of Metal, created spirit-golems. Ta-da, the models get a explanation in the Warhammer Setting

>>47350999
>>47355449
Maybe not full out necromancy, and if you wnat a mroe religious version of it instead of a guy made of bling deciding to "Pimp my Ghost" have them just be statues assembled in wealthier churches that can occasionally come alive.

>>47355449
>implying anyone in the empire would accept necromantic golems in their arsenal

>>47354787
>>47354603

>Hating the bonerpope hat

Might as well not buy nagash.

So Starting to collect Vampire counts, Should I go Skeletons, Ghouls or Zombies?

>>47355851
Actually, to build on this;

How would a Strigoi army fare?

Ghoul kings/ Necromancer Ghouls for heroes

Ghouls/Wolves core

Crypt horrors/Vargiest/Dire Bats special

Terrorgiest/Varghulf rare

>>47355449
>>47355600
>>47355641

GW wants their 40k and plot hooks are good, so how's this.

Nagash taking a portion of the Wind of Death tore a shitload of souls out of the Warp and into the mortal world.
Gelt and the Death college, which Karl appoints to be allowed to dabble in Necromancy to a slightly further degree than before to combat Nagash, decide to start taking the souls of the most faithful they can find in golden living armor so EVEN IN DEATH THEY SERVE. The Relicators not only reclaim the souls of their own, but store souls of the Warrior Priests who fight with them.

Meanwhile the abundance of souls leads to at least one more plot hook per army.

That becomes how Vlad and Isabella return, a shitload of more Tomb Kings appear and wars over territory intensify, dead Ogres who were never seen again after sailing into the unknown lure others to Warhammer Australia, a ghost leads a WAAAGH, and so on.

>>47355851
>>47356154
Go with what you like, VC have no pitfalls outside of tabletop performance.
Strigoi were good in 8th, great in 9th.

That list is good, the key is how you kit out your characters and where you put them. By Necro Ghouls do you mean Strigoi Bloodline 9th Age Level 2 Wizard Vampires?

Beginning of the End Times is going to be released on Saturday. Anyone excited?

I always liked Medieval 2 and can't wait for the mod. I played Call of Warhammer before and thought it was pretty cool. In my opinion it makes Total War Warhammer kind of obsolete because the warscape engine can never produce satisfying battles (sadly).

Maybe add an honorable mention to this mod and the mods Geheimnisnacht for CK2 and Warsword Conquest for Mount and Blade to the OP? There is a lot of thought put into them and I think anyone who likes Warhammer will find these mods very enjoyable.

Here is a preview video of BotET:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_gkHjhPjqM

>>47356548
>Beginning of the End Times is going to be released on Saturday. Anyone excited?
Only because I won't be buying into TWWH yet.

>>47356548
Well, so far it's you, me, and a few anons on /twg/, aside from all the ones shitting on it for being Med II. I'm mostly looking forward to the huge variety of units and the depth they give to every faction.

>>47356661
>shitting on it for being Med II
Not to be too off topic but isn't Medieval 2 the most beloved Total War? Is it simply people not knowing how good the old Total Wars are because their first game in the series was Fall of the Samurai? Are they already deflecting from their buyers remorse for purchasing essentially the same game but worse?

I hope TWWH will be a great game but from all I've seen it doesn't look very promising. Obviously I don't know how BotET turns out but at least it's free and builds on a very good base game.

As far as unit variety goes, I'm really looking forward to experimenting with the different schools of magic the Empire has. 8 different caster units to choose from, I'm probably gonna end up doing some clowny all caster army at some point.

>>47356895
yeah, I'm a little surprised too. Almost every response to posts about it since last week or two has been "shit mod for shit game" or "haha this is useless cuz Total Warhammer"

Maybe they've just gone rabid with new-game lust.

The general as a whole was much more enthusiastic before the TWWH release could be counted down on one's hands.

>>47357100
>Maybe they've just gone rabid with new-game lust.
I'd say it's this. Also a sudden influx of people to a general because of a new game always brings a flood of shitposts with it.

>>47356548
Why hasn't GW sued these guys yet?

>>47357405
This may be a silly question, but is there any way to play Warhammer Fantasy online?
I'm aware of Vassal for 40K, is there a warhammer fantasy equalivant?

>>47355829
It's the worst part of the model by far. The staff also looks like shit.

>>47352926

I don't think so. The git launcher is the only thing you have that poses a ranged threat to anything with armour.

Most OnG lists seems to run a couple of units of goblins to tarpit around their big dangerous units. The LD6 on golbin chaff makes them really unreliable when doing a lot of things in experience.

>>47356520
>Gelt and the Death college, which Karl appoints to be allowed to dabble in Necromancy to a slightly further degree than before to combat Nagash,

At which point the church of sigmar, the rest of the colleges, the witch hunters, and the vast majority of the empire call Karl Franz a heretic and call for his immediate removal. You don't dabble in a little necromancy any more than you dabble into a little chaos. End times may have skewed people's perspective, but you need to remember that every other time the undead are considered just as bad as chaos to the empire.

Wud u pat a Skaven?

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http://www.strawpoll.me/10266712

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>>47358352
By contrast, Arkhan's is great in both categories.
Restraint goes a long way.

>>47358746
You literally cannot call an Emperor a heretic. That is how the Empire works.
Especially not if the church-appointed reincarnation approves.

That being said, massive friction is GOOD. Its a plot hook, it justifies infighting.

40k and Age are fucking terrible for having no good reason for the same side to fight other than someone going full-retard.

You NEED reasons for conflict in the same group, full stop.

>>47359601
I voted Very Unlikely because I don't see them bringing Fantasy back. They'll just squat it all and rent the IP to whoever wants to eat production costs for whatever.

>>47359763
>40k
>no good reason for the same side to fight other

40k is rife with good reasons.

AoS too, for everyone but Stormcast and the less fleshed out Order guys.

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>>47359601

>>47359692
Eh, he is okay. I don't like how rigid his torn cape looks and I don't care for the armour.

>>47359847
Give me a good reason for Ultramarines to fight Ultramarines that is not lolChaos.

There is no reason for Sigmarines to even be in the same place, and fighting each other is something that can't be canon.

>>47359763
The Electors can just depose the Emperor. It's an elected position.

And civil wars have been started for way less than dabbling in necromancy.

>>47359956
Armor is better as gold and bronze like a real Tomb King, the purple metal is fucking stupid.

The cape is lame, yeah.

>>47360007
The THREAT of a civil war is good. Everyone grinding their teeth, hating each other.

Witch Hunters execute members of the church and Colleges of Magic as they see fit anyway.

>>47360038
I would it better if he was wearing robes instead of what looks like some kind of full plate.

>>47360006
>Give me a good reason for Ultramarines to fight Ultramarines that is not lolChaos.

Why does Chaos not count exactly?

>There is no reason for Sigmarines to even be in the same place

They live in the same place, they deploy together.

>fighting each other is something that can't be canon.

They fight each other in a magic Colosseum. They also started to come to blows as they're exposed to the mortal realms.

>Decades of fluff
>fuck that lets hit the rest button and put is SPESS MARINES

Booooooooooooooooo

Fuck this shit I'm out.

>>47360174
>slowpoke.jpg

>>47358352

The only part of the Nagash model I think I just don't care for at all is the bone tentacles on his back.

>>47359956
>>47360038
>>47360104

I like the armor and blueish purple color since it creates a connection between Nagash and Arkhan.

I think Arkhan's sword is basically supposed to be a sibling to Nagash's, so it makes sense that Arkhan would emulate him in other ways.

>>47360174

Technically Fantasy always had Space Marines, they were just called Warriors of Chaos.

Anyone who thinks they weren't the closest thing Fantasy had to a posterboy is kidding themselves.

It was all a dream, beginning right before the storm of chaos, in the head of Belakor, who then awakes to Settra violating his backside just before Grimgor beheads him and throws his skull in Louen's privy. Storm of Chaos happens like it did in 04, because fuck GW mary sueing chaos into some bogeyman when orcs actually earned a victory. Seems like what shoulda happened.

>>47360382
I would have liked Arkhan a lot more if he was just a generic liche. Neferata is really the only good looking rider in the Mortarch kit. I also don't think making Arkhan look like Nagash Minime is a great design idea in general.

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>Kadon
>Ancient Necromancer
>Discovered the Crown of Sorcery
>Founded Mourkain

>8th Edition BRB
>Transformation of Kadon
>Lore of Beasts
>Monstrous Arcanum
>Amber Mage: 'Kadon is our spiritual forefather'

I'm confused. Are they two different characters?
Two ancient and powerful mages called Kadon seems like a large coincidence.
Or is it just a retcon?

>>47360688

I really like what they did with Arkhan and giving him a motif that is similar to Tomb Kings, just like Nagash. To me it makes perfect sense for him to look similar since he is Nagash's right hand. I don't think him look like a generic lich was ever in the cards since he is a character model and one of the oldest Fantasy characters. The sculptor also makes a good point that since Arkhan is a skeleton, his clothes and accessories basically have to tell you about him.

Probably my favorite rider of the three, though Neferata isn't bad either.

Funnily enough, the Mortarch kit was originally just going to be Arkhan before they decided to add Mannfred to represent the VC. Neferata only made it in because the sculptor wanted to fit another character in and she was the one that stood out.

>Grew up reading the books, loving the lore and the setting
>Take a few years off cause life yo
>Warhammer Totalwar comming out
>I should catch up on the fluff!
>start looking into it today

Kill me.

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>>47361082
At least you didn't have to watch her die slowly during several months.

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>>47361106

>2 weeks from now
>Warhammer Totalwar biggest game of all time
>People confused as fuck when they find out the setting has been destroyed
>GW panic creates an alternate universe where End Times never happens
>Slowly leaves Age of Sigmar to die

Meanwhile in reality...

>>47361245
Video games are a fad.

>>47361282

ur mums a fad m8

>>47361308
Hey, tell that to GW. I was quoting them.

>>47361338

GW's mums a fad m8

>>47361245
Even if they did stop AoS, they probably wouldn't reverse their stance on:
>Hiring shitty digital artists
>Portraying things in their art other than characters they have miniatures for
>Original Character Do Not Steal names

It would be some monkey's paw kinda shit.

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>>47361378

>>47361106

End Times got people excited until it occurred to them that GW actually meant what it said.

>>47361245

Reviews are seemingly good, but Total Warhammer is running into the problems that were expected by anyone who knows a thing about video games, which the Fantasy fanbase apparently doesn't.

Reviews sometimes don't mean shit because they get trashed all over the place and slapped with the possibility of being paid for. In addition to that you have a group of Total War fans who apparently don't see anything they like and take every opportunity to badmouth Total Warhammer.

>>47361390

The thing about portraying models piece for piece is either piss poor art direction or the artists just looking for a check. Considering there have been some pieces which don't show the models bit for bit, I'm going to assume it's the latter.

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>>47354603
Imagining this as a paintjob instead of a two minute photoshop job, does this improve the hat?

>>47360151
>Why does Chaos not count exactly?
Because you need a REAL reason.
Chaos is your go-to when you have no other ideas.

Ultramarines do not fight over territory, they do not fight over economic advantages, they have no reason to fight another Imperium group let alone themselves unless you use the cheapest excuse, which is lolChaos. The "We can't come up with anything that makes sense, so a wizard did it".

>>47360382
>I like the armor and blueish purple color since it creates a connection between Nagash and Arkhan.

Yeah, I wouldn't do a purple Nagash. Purple just looks terrible as a metal unless you're a Fabio Spess Muhreen.

Bronze, gold. That's your Egyptian.

>Anyone who thinks they weren't the closest thing Fantasy had to a posterboy is kidding themselves.

3e-5e it was Orcs & Goblins.
6e was about Vampires.
7e it was Elves.
8e it was Warriors.
9th Age is balanced so far.

>>47360730
I'm sure it works into Strigoi and bestial natures somehow.

I just wish we'd have gotten named characters with models for Strigoi and a Lahmian that isn't Neferata.

>>47362074
>End Times got people excited until it occurred to them that GW actually meant what it said.
ET Nagash was fun.
Glottkin is that moment where alarm bells start wailing.
Khaine was when the whole thing rammed into a wall and exploded.
Thanquol was a slide downhill.
Archaon is the equivalent to Konami cancelling Silent Hill, pissing all over Metal Gear and Kojima.
Age of Sigmar was Konami announcing they're only doing Pachinko and cellphone games from this point on.

>>47362857

GW's paintjob for Nagash uses purple and it looks pretty good in my opinion. Purple also feels like a fitting color to be associated with what Nagash represents.

Off the top of my head, both Nagash and Arkhan are more armored than most Tomb King models and thus I'm not sure how well pure bronze and gold would look on them.

>>47362930

I still think Khaine was an interesting story, at the very least better than "Well Tyrion managed to conquer his curse and so Malekith is the big bad, oh but we can't kill him because Chaos."

It's bad enough GW pretty much did that by bringing Tyrion back.