OSR - Setting Edition

Lamentations of the Flame Princesses' historical setting takes it away by far for me. Shitty guns, strange spellcasting and the wierd world of the 1600's just makes me a happy camper.

Alright OSR, I have an...opposite question.

I'm only versed in OSR. LotFP, B/X and DCC are the only systems I've ever run. OSR is my preferred style of choice, but my group of players (who aren't tabletop gamers normally) I feel like they're going to feel restricted after a while if every fantasy themed game we play is the same 7-Class option. And I know for some of them, their character permanently dying all the time is off putting. They wanna create a PC and build it up over time. They want to be a Ranger or a Gnome and short of homebrewing rules for that into my LotFP game (and causing the one RAW-autist to explode), I can't provide.

What more 'modern' system would you recommend me? 5e? Pathfinder? Shadow of the Demon Lord? I need something that's relatively just as easy for a beginner to pick up as B/X or LotFP.

>>47267406
>They want to be a Ranger or a Gnome and short of homebrewing rules for that into my LotFP game (and causing the one RAW-autist to explode), I can't provide.
Specialist. And tell the autist to check his autism, because houserules are what makes the game fun.

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>>47267484
I was going to do a ranger as follows:

RANGER:
use Halfling XP, Saving Throws and Bushcraft Advancement.
+2 Missile Attack (On top of DEX modifier; up to +5 max).
3-in-6 Stealth Skill.

>>47267614
Shit, after reading through the book again, I've realized the Halfling class is basically MADE to be a Ranger type. Advancing bushcraft skill, 5-in-6 Stealth, added DEX bonus...

>>47267406
I don't have any personal experience with 5e, but that might not be a bad choice as it would certainly mix things up, but while maintaining an air of continuity. Or at least it seems like that would be the case.

Sticking within OSR, Labyrinth Lord's Advanced Edition Companion is essentially B/X with AD&D's options tacked on. Or to put it a different way, it's AD&D minus the unnecessary clutter. Or at least that's the idea. I personally think it could be streamlined a bit more, but it is certainly less junky than AD&D. Anyway, it has gnomes and rangers and such.

Castles & Crusades might be another thing to look at, especially if you're looking to branch out a bit while still keeping a foot in OSR. There's a lot of stuff it does that I like, from basing itself on the universal d20 mechanic (one of the actual strengths of 3e, except that it screwed up the actual math) to using attribute checks as the basis for resolving everything (a sort of rules-light approach to skills). The way it does primary and secondary attributes is a bit odd, but the only thing that's really broken about the game are the saving throws, which never get any easier, making high level casters ridiculously powerful. However, to fix this, all you have to do is make one simple tweak: add only half a caster's level to their spell's challenge level (rather than their full level).

>>47267780
I may try LL:AE. Seems like the same natural progression as B/X to 1e (since it's pretty much literally that, hah.)

Speaking of, does anyone have a copy of the AE with art? Both in the trove are art-free.

>>47267911
It's designed to be compatible with regular LL (using the smaller hit dice scheme of Basic, for instance: d8 hit dice for fighters, etc.), so you can theoretically mix and match AD&D with Basic, having race-as-class characters in the same party with split race and class characters. Of course, in cases of direct overlap (race-as-class elf vs. elven fighter/magic-user), there's bound to be one option that's a bit better than the other.

>>47267911
>Speaking of, does anyone have a copy of the AE with art?
I thought I did, but I can't find it right now, so it's probably on one of my hard drives that recently crashed.

I wrote up a little class for Mad Scientists in LotFP. What do people think of it?
http://dyingstylishly.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/metamorphosists.html

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>>47267911
>Both in the trove are art-free.

Yeah, the "Art" and "No Art" versions in the Trove look to be the same file.

>>47268153
Thanks amigo.

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>>47267406
> causing the one RAW-autist to explode
Let him die for the Motherland. Seriously.

OSR is made for homebrewing. There is no reason to make RAW holy (unless your Referee is a 13 y.o. kid).


If you want reduced lethality, you can add some homerules (and change modules - because Old School is kinda lethal) to make people not to die too often.

Basic idea:
If character goes to 0 HP (can't go below) and is not explicitly dead (falling in lava, for example) - he is incapacitated/unconcious until the the end of combat and dies only if left alone.

Then Medicine check (add skill) should be made to prevent character from getting Injury. If check is failed - roll on table for some permanent debuff that has to be slowly healed.

>>47268079
Overall, I have no idea how it balances it out (I suppose that's what play testing is for), but it looks pretty interesting. It does seem like it's a bit weak compared to magic-users though. Procedures are time-consuming and expensive, and which ones you have is rigidly defined. Given the the inability to perform procedures on the spur of the moment, it seems like you'd end up playing a spell-less wizard a lot of the time.

In terms of proofreading, I noticed this typo:
>Regardless of the spell's duration when cast by a cleric or magic user, #the any# changes made by a procedure last indefinitely.

Also, you might want to put a space between your paragraphs.

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>>47267406
>And I know for some of them, their character permanently dying all the time is off putting.
Don't have characters die at -3 hit points. Make -hit dice size, or -10 or something. Or maybe you aren't dead when you reach that threshold, but merely have to make a saving throw to see if you're dead.

And yeah, talk to your autist and try to make him see reason. The -10 hit point threshold is common to old school D&D though and is actually an optional rule in AD&D.

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>>47268232
Well, LotFP does:
>0HP = unconcscious
>-3HP = Dying in ?d6 minutes
>-4HP = ded.
Which seems like enough of a buffer.

I've added a medicine skill. 1-in-6 plus INT mod. Requires a one-use medkit (20sp) and can be attempted once a day. Takes a full turn outside combat, 10 rounds in combat (ala firearm reloading).

Roll the attempt: a successful roll heals that number of pips in HP (ie. a character with a 4-in-6 skill rolls a 2, thus heals 2HP.) No penalty for a failed roll, but the kit is expended.

>>47268254
>which ones you have is rigidly defined. Given the the inability to perform procedures on the spur of the moment
This isn't quite the case. The relevant bit is this:
>A metamorphosist is not limited to only perform the procedures they have already learned. If they can justify in suitable techno-babble how they intend to go about the procedure, then (at the GM's discretion) they can give it a shot. As well as the possible Medicine skill roll, a Research skill roll must be made. If the Research roll fails, then - regardless of whether or not the actual procedure was a success - then Something Has Gone Horribly Wrong. It is up to the GM to decide what exactly this is. It could range from an angry mob of torch-wielding peasants, to an outbreak of a horrible new plague, to the patient becoming Horribly Wrong themselves - whatever the GM thinks would best drive home the metamorphosist's hubris.
which means that the metamorphosist can potentially pull of any mad surgery they can think of from level 1. The list of procedures known is the ones they can do /safely/, without the risk of Bad Shit Happening.

>>47268414
I do a very similar thing, but have it deal a wee bit of damage on a failed roll. On the other hand, you can keep on rolling as much as you like (since you always risk making things worse), and medkits work like specialists tools: 50SP to be able to say 'yeah, I've got the gear for that' indefinitely.

>>47267406

ACKS my man.

It has Domain rules like RC so there is something to build up to, and in the Players Companion class creation rules. Theres also just a good variety of classes between the main book and the companion.

Permanent death is still a thing though. That's just OSR.

Otherwise it's really too broad a topic for what you want out of a system. Check out Reign

You guys grant XP for turned undead?

>>47268414
> Which seems like enough of a buffer.
Some of the players clearly didn't think it is enough of a buffer.


>>47268895
Nope. I don't even grant XP for killing monsters.

>>47268981
>Some of the players clearly didn't think it is enough of a buffer.
Some players need to git gud.

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Posting homebrew.

>>47268336
is this chart a roll-under-d20?

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Does anyone have a PDF of SlaughterGrid? I've heard good things. It's for OSRIC, but not in the Trove.

>>47269785
Yeah. Subtract the scores from 21 if you want to make it a roll-over save.

Has anyone ever run Keep on the Borderlands with AD&D? I know it's designed for B/X, but I can do the conversions pretty easily.
I'm just wondering how well it works with the higher complexity of AD&D, and if The Village of Hommlet is a good substitute.

Speaking of which, is The Village of Hommlet a good module on its own, without the rest of ToEE? I'd like to run it, but it seems like without the rest of the campaign it'd be kind of pointless.

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>>47270335
>is The Village of Hommlet a good module on its own

yes

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am I doing AC for LotFP right?
Lets say we have a Cleric with +1 DEX mod, Leather Armor and a Shield:

>Melee: 14 (leather) + 1 (shield) +1 (DEX) = 16
>Ranged: 14 (leather) + 2 (shield) +1 (DEX) = 17
>Without Shield: 14 (leather) +1 (DEX) = 15
>Surprise: 14 (base leather AC) -2 (penalty) (no shield or DEX mods) = 12

>>47270717
Yeah, well done.

>>47270555
I love this guy's stuff, but I had no idea he did T1. Is this recent?

>>47270790
cool. i've seen pictures of some character sheets online that made me question if I was doing something wrong.

>>47270832
I think its about a year old actually.

latest one he did IIRC was for Out of the Abyss for 5e a few months back

I had to upload a smaller version (8.05 is too big for 4chan)

>>47271195
no wait

Vault of the Drow is the newest one from this January

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/vault-drow-walkthrough-poster

>>47270335
Hommlet is a great base for players, very reminiscent of the Keep in style.
The Moathouse and it's connection to the Temple of Elemental Evil is a bit weaksauce tho.

So Rules Cyclopedia is a complete edition of BD&D but it's missing 100s of pages of monsters and rules, including all Immortal level rules?

Doesn't sound very complete. Doesn't even have Crucible races or Gazateer material.

what do you guys think of Godbound

How does one add to the trove?

I have a copy of TSR 2018 Oriental Adventures

>tfw once had the 14gb of TSR D&D torrent
>tfw machine died with no backup

JUST

>>47276297
>TSR 2018
It's only 2016, and didn't TSR go under?

>>47276425

Fell through from an alternate timeline?

>>47268981
>I don't even grant XP for killing monsters.
Your players actually manage to kill something, at considerable risk to their characters, and you don't even give them anything for it? Disgusting.

>>47275753
>Doesn't even have Crucible races or Gazateer material.

Are you stupid? It's just a single volume why would it have all the Gazetteer shit reprinted?

>>47270335
>Has anyone ever run Keep on the Borderlands with AD&D?
Examine the 2e module Return to the Keep on the Borderlands. It's not exactly the same, being set a significant time after the original, but it's pretty close.

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>>47277153

>Giving monster XP

Next you'll tell us you don't do XP for treasure.

>>47275753
>Rules Cyclopedia is a complete edition of BD&D
No. It's a compilation and re-editing of most of the BECM core rules. Supplementary shit isn't there because it's supplementary, and I isn't there because who plays I?

>>47277232
>OD&D: Book I, p1
>Holmes: p11
>B/X: B22, X22
>BECMI/RC/AD&D: monster description
Do you have a problem with me following the rules of D&D?

>>47277321
That should be
>OD&D: Book I, p18
Accidentally deleted the 8.

Working on a setting where my bread and butter are going to be some of the less iconic monsters from the Fiend Folio and Monster Manual 2.

God help me

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>>47269843
Sharing cause some wonderful asshole hooked me up in the PDF thread.

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>>47271234
> Vault of the Drow is the newest one from this January

OSR threads seem like they're dying.

What's the single shittiest houserule you've ever been under?

>>47278358
Maybe it should be weekly rather than eternal?

>>47278469

It's been tried, and it doesn't help. All there is to do is accept that sometimes it ebbs and sometimes it flows.

>>47278358
>What's the single shittiest houserule you've ever been under?
demons & devils could teleport multiple times per round, meaning bone devils could pop into existence behind you, attack with a backstab benefit, then teleport away to god-knows-where before anybody could react. Wouldn't have been such a big deal if there weren't so many evil sorcerers summoning devils willy-nilly in the game.

>>47278358
I just lurk usually

>>47278469
I think so. Or at least we should post new threads proportionally to the traffic they're getting rather than always trying to keep one going so that they lumber on without the vibrancy and enthusiasm they might otherwise have. It'll never happen though, because somebody will always come along and post a new one, and we'll continue to be spread too thin.

>>47278661
>It's been tried, and it doesn't help.
It really hasn't. We occasionally had a day or two between threads and when we didn't see a sudden surge in traffic, some people concluded that it didn't work, but it takes a while for people to get over being burned out, and it wasn't a sufficient amount of time. If we let a full week go by without an /osr/ thread and then posted only one a week, I'm willing to be we'd see a marked change.

>All there is to do is accept that sometimes it ebbs and sometimes it flows.
It does ebb and flow, but that doesn't mean there aren't larger trends. If we had threads less often, we'd have more to say.

>>47278358
>OSR threads seem like they're dying.
I lurk here everyday but I only post if I have a legitimate question or can give a good answer.

>What's the single shittiest houserule you've ever been under?
I was the DM so it's my fault, but I used ten foot polemics LotFP weapon houserules which had shit like axes doing double damage to anyone with AC14 or less. Had to nerf it, rebalance the whole dungeon and then finally remove it. The players loved it though.

>>47278358
>OSR threads seem like they're dying

I constantly try to bump them by contributing my homebrew writings and materials, but they tend to generate little discussion.

In the meantime; anyone have any requests for encounter lists/random tables I could write up? Got 4 days off coming up here, would be nice to have something creative to do during it.

>>47280101
How about some dragon-infested mountains?

>>47280101
>I constantly try to bump them by contributing my homebrew writings and materials, but they tend to generate little discussion.
Same here. When the threads are going stronger, folks tend to be more responsive, though stimulating interest in anything in particular is always a crap shoot. I try to respond to people when they post homebrew stuff, but it can become a chore when the thread isn't popping, and I'd rather not give a forced response.

>anyone have any requests for encounter lists/random tables I could write up?
Maybe random loot like jewelry, gold cups, silver coffers and so forth? Not sure exactly what you'd call that, but non-utility valuables (so no weapons, armor, tools, magic items, etc.) that aren't simple coins or gems.

Or maybe a table of funky magical arrows, like: lightning arrow (becomes lightning bolt when fired, as spell cast by 5th level magic user), arrow of remembrance (reappears in hand after it strikes target, gains +2 to hit and damage the last target it struck), ghost arrow (arrow ignores armor), etc.

Alternately, a simple table of wounds a PC might take when critically hit or instead of dying, etc.

>>47276407
I still have the files if that would help.

>>47277971
Got some examples on what you are eyeing? I'd like to steal some ideas, bro

>>47280101
Encounter list for ASE/sci-fantasy gonzo settings?

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For some reason I was just overcome with the urge to play a 1E Forgotten Realms game. I know the setting has acquired a bad rap over time but I've always had a soft spot for it. I've never understood the implication that you have to constantly throw high-powered NPCs around to solve everything or it's not really FR; it's a perfectly serviceable and well-detailed rugged fantasy world otherwise.

>>47281001
>constantly throw high-powered NPCs around to solve everything
The high-level NPCs are supposed to be too busy dealing with all the other high-level NPCs' plans, so they're not supposed to come into play beyond giving your players things to do occasionally.

>>47278247
Hallelujah!

Am currently implementing a hack to make the entire game resolve around an unified d20 roll-under system.
How bad of an idea is this?

Is there a reason elves take so much xp to level up other than the fact that they can both fight kinda good and know spells kinda good?

I'm mostly talking about LotFP right now but it seems to be a thing in most retro clones and old school D&D.

>>47281529
>Is there a reason elves take so much xp to level up other than the fact that they can both fight kinda good and know spells kinda good?
That's pretty much it. They get OP stuff so they level slower.

>>47278358
Rolling to attack an ally if you missed an attack on an enemy if they were close or whatever reason the DM decided.

>>47278358
Critical fumble tables that included stabbing yourself or an ally in the ass for full damage on a 1 to hit.

Are there any guides to race creation in OSR games or do I have to wing it?

For LotFP, can anyone think of a disadvantage one could add to the medium weapon? Right now there is no reason not to get it over a small weapon unless you're a halfling.

>>47282375
Inability to sleight-of-hand prep/hide it.
Negative to-hit if thrown.

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>>47281666
I bet you hate DCC.

>>47281727
ACKS Companion has some rules.

>>47266738
Hey guys, I bought Better Than Any Man (including some other, nice books) from some stranger at a market, but I am not too keen on running historical settings. How would you guys recommend changing things around so they're detacthed from our history?

Just change the names of the nations and places? Something else?

>>47283432
> Just change the names of the nations and places? Something else?
You can make the invaders Dworfs, but keep the religious vibe going - they worship All-Father or something in a specific way.

>>47283432
Maybe this blogpost will help? http://tenfootpolemic.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/so-youre-running-better-than-any-man.html

Also, since you have the physical copy, would you say that BTAM in book format is in high quality or is it very cheaply made?

>>47283522
I would recommend going for the PDF, the paperback version is fine quality but as new, it's expensive.

>>47270555
>fighter infuriates gnolls by misgendering them
kek

>>47281529
>I'm mostly talking about LotFP right now
The LotFP Elf's super wonky because Raggi pulled the Fighter's greatest benefit (to-hit gain) from the Elf class and cut their advancement requirements by I think 25%, compared to B/X. This hasn't ever struck me as balanced the way he seems to think it is. But for *every other Basic clone*, where they keep the principle of the Elf being literally the Fighter and Magic-User mashed into one man and with averaged-out HP, yes, what you said is the exact reason. They're top-tier fighters and also top-tier wizards (neither of these is "kinda" in standard B/X; they can cast spells in plate, for instance), so if they didn't advance hyper-slowly they'd just be shitting all over the humans.

>>47266738
>Setting edition
Okay, lemme run an idea for a setting past you guys.
So, a bunch of christians believed that the end of the world would start in 1033, 'cos that was a thousand years after the crucifixion. The idea is to take that and make an 11th century apocalyptic setting with it. The dead walking the earth, angels battling demons, strongholds of humans trying to survive and stuff like that. Really play up the medieval craziness.

>>47284049
That's good to know, I might just rebalance the classes a bit to make it fit B/X more then. Is it the same case with dwarf and halfling?

>>47284049
Elves (like dwarves) still get access to fighter maneuvers. That +2 to hit or +2 AC can still make a real difference when no other class gets ANY ability to improve in that way.

>>47284180
That's... Pretty cool actually.

>>47279569
>We occasionally had a day or two between threads

We had spaces where we were without an OSRG for a week or two in the past. Sometimes the next general would run well, just as often it would die on the vine with only a handful of posts.

Worse, I've seen other threads try this kind of thing out, and subsequently die because not being around meant people moved on to other threads and lost interest.

And all this meta-thread strategizing is pointless. You can't make other people refrain from posting anyway

What are your house rules? For LotFP, I:

allow lv. 1 Magic-Users and Clerics to have a prepped (ie. Already had used Read Magic on it before) spellscroll on hand in addition to their 1 spell.

Max HP at lv. 1

Offhand weapon gives +1 melee AC.

Medicine skill.

hey does anyone have a pdf for the Night Below campaign module for AD&D 2e? i can't seem to find one anywhere

>>47285698
I think Trove had it, no?

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>>47285594
>Basic Fantasy RPG
Max HP at level 1.
Clerics get different weapon/armor restrictions depending on their deity. For example, druids would be allowed any one-handed weapon, bows, and slings but no metal armors.
Magic-Users are allowed crossbows.
Save vs. Death, less immediately lethal poisons, spend gold for XP, and ability rolls from the optional rules section are used.
Halflings are rabbit-men. They use giant snails rather than horses for mounts.

>>47285594
>Offhand weapon gives +1 melee AC
This is literally the first case of properly used off-hand bonuses I've seen.
In my case, I treat it as a versatile weapon that halves the penalty of fighter/dwarf/elf stances.

>>47285594
Swords & Wizardry Complete:
Changed all Ability Scores to be a more lenient variation of B/X. (13 and up gives bonuses)
No weapon restrictions per class.
Max HP at Level 1.
Hit Dice are all rerolled at level up and the higher score is kept.

>>47281516
It's not a bad idea at all. It's what I've typically done. It's how my newest homebrew started out until the range of numbers turned out large enough that it proved easier to use "the d20 mechanic" (d20 + bonus vs. target number) to resolve things. Overall, I prefer the "roll under" approach though, which has always seemed intuitive to me, with everything working like an attribute check. I was using "roll under" way back in the eighties to consolidate the way things worked and never much cared for the way to-hit and saving throws are supposed to work, with lower scores being better. Roll under also makes the math easier to do: halve the number and move the decimal point one digit and you have your percentage chance of success (13 divided by 2 = 6.5, move the decimal point and you have a 65% chance of success). There's a retroclone called "There's Always a Chance" which uses a unified "roll under" system.

Another LotFP question here, this time regarding the firearms rules

Are there any advantages to using the musket over the arquebus? They have the same range and the same penalties, except the musket is oversized and requires a stand to be able to use without to-hit penalties. The musket also costs more.

Is this Raggi forgetting something or did he just add the musket for historical purposes and just made it completely pointless?

>>47284049
I don't know about LotFP, but elves are ridiculously powerful in Basic. At 120k XP, for instance, both elves and magic-users are 7th level with the exact same spell progression, but elves have d6 instead of d4 hit dice, their saves average 9.25 rather than 12, they have infravision and can detect secret doors, their chance to hit is 2 points better, and they can wear platemail and wield a two-handed weapon or carry a shield. That's because elves use the fighter XP progression except that they lag a full level behind (until the fighter's XP requirements plateau, anyway, at which point the two diverge a bit). This means that elves tend to be a bit more than half a level behind magic-users on average, and that's not enough to counterbalance the benefits they get. So it may be that what LotFP does actually corrects things.

>>47285869
i didn't see it in there in its compiled form or the individual modules. im basically retarded though so its entirely possible i missed it. ill check again

Something I've been thinking about. Classes get three numbers based on their level: To hit, saving throw, and skill throw. So, like, a first level fighter might get 10+ to hit, 16+ saving throw, and 17+ skill. Meanwhile, a thief gets 12+ to hit, 15+ saving throw, and 14+ skill.
You apply a relevant attribute modifier to this number depending on what you're rolling. So, you'd alter your to-hit by your strength mod when using melee weapons, or alter your save by constitution to resist a poison, or alter your skill by intelligence when picking a lock.
Armour just modifies your to-hit roll (like in ACKS), so if you normally have 10+ to hit, you'd have 16+ against AC 6.
What are people's thoughts on this?

>>47287990
Just looked through the book. No advantage that I can see. If anything, its a huge disadvantage.

>>47288322
So essentially, the changes over the standard way of doing things are that saving throws are unified but modified by different attributes, and your skill score unifies and replaces thief skills and attribute checks as the primary way of resolving related tasks? I like it. I personally think that high scores should be better (like with attribute checks) rather than worse (like with saving throws), but that's a matter of personal taste.

>>47288365
I actually looked through the book again as well and I found the advantage: muskets do armor penetration at medium and long range which the other guns don't do. Basically that means muskets are only good for big open overworld battles but pretty shit for dungeoneering.

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>>47280320

Sure! Got a few ideas for that one actually.

>>47280388

I've actually done this before, but I should make more. The injury table is pretty interesting though I don't use those rules normally myself.

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>>47280762

I'm not typically a fan of 'science fantasy' in that way, but I am a big fan of regular science fiction, even really light stuff, it's just my autism that doesn't let me combine them.

Here's an encounter list, but I really want to make more. I'll probably make a list of encounters/cultures one might encounter on primitive worlds or a big ass list of rival Enforcers (essentially PCs in the setting) for flavor. Or maybe just weird 'magic' laser guns?

>>47288492
Cool! Thanks!

>>47288522
>reading through these
You're a life-saver, no joke. All of these so far are perfectly usable out-of-the-box as is.
Gotta pack this up on wednesday.
I owe you a beer.

>>47288678
>>47288823

No problem, keep up the good work OSR! I'll be back with more since people seem to like it.

>>47284180
Fund it

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I'm trying to do one of those level-up tables that Zak S has done but for the cleric. The idea is that instead of getting bonus to saves at certain points you roll on this table once per level. Spells still work as usual. This is LotFP by the way.

This is what I've come up with so far. What do you guys think? Is anything grossly overpowered? Got any suggestions?

>>47290321

I like it a lot, but I would say drop the bit at the bottom about getting +2 to specific saves, since you already have a big chance to get +1 to all saves. It's kind of boring that way, these kinds of lists shine when doing all the weirdo abilites to make characters really interesting. Like the Golem ability or water to wine thing you got there, really great an evocative stuff.

If you want to add a few more things; I would make some suggestions, but obviously you don't have to do these if you don't want.
>If a vampire bites you your blood is acid and if a ghoul touches you your skin burns them like hot iron. This only applies if you haven't sinned in the last 24 hours.
>You can ask your God for a miracle once per adventure. This can't fix everything but can do great and powerful things (such as divert a river, bring someone back to life for a day, call upon a plague or summon an angel of the God)
>You can transform yourself into an animal symbol of your God, but cannot cast cleric spells in that form. You also cannot talk directly. If you get this again you can talk and cast spells. If you get it a third time you can transform into a mystical/dire version of that animal instead.

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So I'm thinking about making some Sci-Fi OSR and I want some ideas for classes.

And no, not SCIENCE FANTASY or POST APOCALYPSE.

>Soldier/generic Warrior class
>Specalist/Technician class
>Magical Jedi/Psychic class

Do I really need anything more than this?

>>47291733
>has psychics
>thinks it isn't science fantasy

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>>47291968

Fuck off

>>47287990
>Is this Raggi forgetting something or did he just add the musket for historical purposes and just made it completely pointless?
You already found the musket's theoretical advantage, but it's worth noting that Raggi seems bad at making weapons make sense generally. The rapier being just dogshit has come up in /osrg/ before, and it has a similar more-or-less-theoretical "advantage".

>>47291733
I personally don't think classes work as well for sci-fi games, but those seem to cover all bases relatively well.

>>47288043
>At 120k XP, for instance, both elves and magic-users are 7th level with the exact same spell progression etcetera
Don't have the books on hand, but I feel like that isn't a very representative instance. I don't think that overlap situation comes up much in the respective XP tables.

It *is* true, however, that the class the Elf lags precisely a level behind is the Fighter for the entirety of low level. Then at the point where TSR judged that the M-U became more powerful than the Fighter, the Elf shifts to lagging a full level behind the M-U instead. At least in BECMI/RC.

>>47284180
It should culminate in the Crusades.

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>>47292843
If you go by XP, elves are the same level as magic-users for 163,500 XP, and 1 level behind for 436,500 XP, out of the range of 600,000 XP, when elves hit their level cap. That's 27.25% of the time they're the same level. That's a bit deceptive, however, as elves fall further behind at high levels, where XP costs are much higher (80% of the XP range of elves before level cap is levels 7 to the point where they hit level 10). If you count from 1st level to the point where magic-users hit 6th, elves are the same level 43.75% of the time. So it might be that elves lag about 2/3 a level behind magic-users on average. Regardless, even lagging a full level behind magic-users is inadequate, at least once you get past the first few levels.

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I finally found a fucking set of the 'zocchi dice' for relatively cheap. be nice to play DCC without using the app-roller or dice modding.

>>47293491
I'm cringing looking at how rounded the edges are on the d14, d16, d24 and d30. I'll bet those fuckers roll around like marbles. I also bet those d4s wobble back and forth for an obnoxiously long time before standing still. Regardless, it's entirely too many dice to have to use. I kind of wish d16s were more commonplace to bridge the gap between d12s and d20s, but having to have 14 different sizes of dice to play a game is downright ridiculous.

>>47293580
just use a dice tray.

>>47293650
Shit taking too long to come to a stop is still an issue, as is having a dice tray take up valuable space on the table.

>>47293491
Those aren't Zocchi dice, those are tumbled and rounded garbage that does not meet The Colonel's standards at all.

>>47293694
Well, fortunately there's a 1000 other games that don't use the zocchi dice that you can stick with. DCC is fun.

>>47293796
But if I don't tell you how you're having badwrong fun, how will you ever know?

https://youtu.be/iGA-sEvBjAc

>>47291733
Hard Sci-Fi is a terrible fit for an RPG, especially an OSR style one(and let's face it, Soft Sci-Fi and Science Fantasy are literally the same thing, one is just more honest about it using Space Magic instead of hiding behind technobabble)

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>>47293694
I'm rollin 'em and they're stopping, consistently, just slightly after a d20 roll. I know the things aren't Zocchi-perfect, but they've been chi-square tested and we're a fraction of the cost. The damn things are hard to find.

>>47294039
Hey, I'm usually on par with most thought in the OSR threads. Love LotFP (it's my system of choice) and Labyrinth Lord and S&W et al. But the hate for DCC around here is pretty undeserved.

Shit's tight.

What do you think about an OSR-style generic system?

Or one for a zombie apocalypse. The high lethality of low-level D&D goes great with a game about zombies IMO.

Plus 3d6 straight down would be good for generating the "average people" that they'd be playing.

>>47294300
see >>47284180

>>47294166
>Soft Sci-Fi and Science Fantasy

I disagree. Science Fantasy tends to be a bit like Endless Space, or have a fantasy universe where magical stuff is explained as being nanobots or whatever, where as soft sci-fi is like Star Wars and can have its own supernatural phenomenon without being 'science fantasy'.

>>47294300

>Or one for a zombie apocalypse.
http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/game_necro.php

Not exactly what you're looking for, but this is an interesting take on the zombie apocalypse by some OSR dude. The system looks solid and the character creation is very appealing to me.

Haven't had a chance to run it though.

>>47294962
Also from the same author we got:

>Post Apoc
http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/game_urthe.php

>Rocket sci-fi
http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/game_ryft.php

>Star Wars
http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/game_swga.php

And that's only one guy. I'm a believer that OSR has still a lot of ground to explore and cover, so, if you got a game in mind, might as well go for it.

(At this point I'd dare say that the OSR community has the most settings and compatibility between them.)

>>47295082
damn. this site is cool as fuck. that post-apoc map generator is fantastic.

>>47285869
>>47288140
Yeah I've looked and looked again and its not in there. To reiterate: does anyone have pdfs of Night Below for 2e (specifically the first book, Evils of Haranshire)? I can't seem to find a pdf of it anywhere, and if its in the trove, I have managed to miss it probably 10 times now so I'll probably never notice it.

>>47295695

http://www.4shared.com/get/MMvliUuE/DD_-_Night_Below_Book_I__-_The.html

>>47295884
thanks m8
fortuitously i was finally able to find a scan of the whole module a few minutes ago, though its a really shitty scan

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So, /OSR/, I love everything about old-school D&D and retroclones EXCEPT for the way they handle class balance and progression.

Specifically, the idea that demihumans are just all-around better than humans but level more slowly/have level caps rubs me the wrong way, since it means that humans get overshadowed at lower levels (which means less fun for human players) and demihumans just stop progressing (which means less fun for demihuman players). Either way, half the table is having less fun at any given point in the campaign.

More generally, having different classes level at different rates feels weird to me; in my mind, the whole point of "level" is to have an objective measure of a character's power/ability/moxie/&c., so having a 2nd-level fighter be as good as a 3rd-level Thief defeats the purpose of slapping numbers on them.

So, three questions for y'all:

1) Does anyone feel this way about old-school balance and progression, or am I just a retarded faggot?

2) If the former, are there any systems/house rules that balance demihumans and implement a consistent XP/level progression across classes?

3) If I am in fact a retarded faggot, what is the rationale for doing things this way and how can I educate myself?

In return, here's a guide for running Book of the New Sun adventures in OSR.

>>47294962

Thank you for posting that site. It's fantastic.

>>47295082

Seriously inspiring, makes me want to do my own niche project.

>>47295260

Seconded.

This is why I love the OSRG thread.

>>47296012

1.) I originally started roleplaying with 3.0, and it used to bother me. Generally wanted to get rid of level caps, and raise the power of humans to compensate for it.

2.) There probably are, but I'd be at least a little leery of using them because it's not easy to balance, because:

3.) There's no possible way to reign in high level casters without chopping off the high level spells. At a certain point, wizards outshine and overpower all other classes. That's the reason they level much slower at mid-to-high levels.

It's also the reason why elves (as in the class/race from B/X, BECMI, OD&D etc.) levels much slower. It's also why in 1E and 2E multiclassing demihumans split their XP between classes.

I've made my peace with it, but I would consider very, very carefully when modifying XP progression. If you're going to take the caps off of demihumans, normal humans need a boost to compensate. If you're going to change the XP progression chart to a single chart, you either need to chop off the high level spells and make Thieves just as good as everyone else, or you need to make everyone as powerful as the Magic-User.

Which is a tall order.

>>47296012
>in my mind, the whole point of "level" is to have an objective measure of a character's power/ability/moxie/&c., so having a 2nd-level fighter be as good as a 3rd-level Thief defeats the purpose of slapping numbers on them.
They're a rough measurement of power, but more than anything, they're a measurement of how many hit dice somebody has. Monsters work similarly, and there too, you can tell a lot about a monster's power by how many hit dice it has, though sometimes special powers (a medusa's gaze, for instance) can skew things.

But in my mind, XP requirements don't vary by enough to really be worth it. It would be simpler to just have a single progression and to balance things out in other ways.

As far as demihumans go, I think that's a real problem (and not just a minor annoyance). Something like Basic is a bit easier to fix because you don't have to tack a race's adjustment on top of a bunch of different potential classes, but rather you can adjust the powers of each racial class separately. The easiest thing to do, however, is to play around with their XP progressions (which is probably how you got variable XP progressions in the first place).

Halflings are probably about right where they are. They have some really nice saving throws and some racial abilities, but they have lower hit dice than fighters and have to use lighter weapons. Just take away their level cap and you're good to go.

Dwarves don't move any slower than humans in Basic, and have great saves, infravision, and can detect construction and so forth, but their XP requirements are just barely higher than a fighter's. Having them use the Magic-User's XP progression would help make them a bit less obviously superior. Alternately, leave their progression where it is and restrict them to chainmail.

A couple of days ago, I saw someone post a Thieve's World Campaign boxed set for AD&D.

I thought to myself, I'll just find it in the /osr/ trove, and give it a read. Well, it wasn't there... And after looking around, I can't seem to find it anywhere else. Ebay has some on sale for like 80 bucks!

I'm going to keep looking, and if I find it, I'll post it here to add to the trove.

Does anyone else have it?

>>47291733
> Do I really need anything more than this?
Depends on your Sci-Fi setting and the things you expect to do.

Cyborg, Drone Controller, Brain Hacker, Pilot, Bioscupltor, ...

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>>47296510
Elves? Elves are the real problem. There, I think the best solution is to slow their spell progression rather than increasing their already high XP requirements. If you have them gain a new level of spells every 3 levels rather than every 2, that makes a big difference. The pic here, which I posted last thread, is from Swords & Wizardry White Box and is about right, I think. Personally, I like the idea of barring elves from platemail, shields and two-handed weapons, using the S&W WB spell progression (or something similar), and maybe *reducing* their XP requirements to those of magic-users. But if you just stick them with the slower spell progression and leave everything else the way it is, that'd probably be okay too.

>>47296606
Let it be said, however, that for the most part, the level caps aren't too bad when it comes to B/X. The game covers up to level 14 and a level 12 dwarf and level 10 elf aren't unreasonably weak compared to a 14th level human class character. Halflings get shafted though.

>>47296588

Cybernetics can be gear, Drone Controllers can be gear/Technician stuff, Brain Hackers can also be gear/Technician (I'm assuming this isn't mind control, but something like a decker from Shadowrun), Pilot should be an NPC (or a skill), as should the Biosculpter. No one should ever be "the guy that flies the ship". Biosculpting is a neat tech/occupation, but ultimately the PCs are adventurers, not the cast of Nip/Tuck.

>>47296404
>There's no possible way to reign in high level casters without chopping off the high level spells. At a certain point, wizards outshine and overpower all other classes. That's the reason they level much slower at mid-to-high levels.
I'd probably just start giving all classes spells after certain levels, and yeah probably chop off the most potent high level spells(in return I'd give spell casters more lower level magical utility and combat capability by giving them more spells per day, and by giving them some at-will spells, including some of the more lackluster level one spells like Read Magic or Prestidigitation)

>If you're going to take the caps off of demihumans, normal humans need a boost to compensate
I'd say versatility is one inherent benefit(since Humans get all the classes, while non Humans generally have only one class, or perhaps a small selection of them), another would be having Human classes get the strongest Domain level benefits(so a Human Fighter at Name Level would get like double or even triple the amount of initial followers than a Dwarven Fighter would, and also can build a Stronghold cheaper than a Dwarf can)

>If you're going to change the XP progression chart to a single chart, you either need to chop off the high level spells and make Thieves just as good as everyone else, or you need to make everyone as powerful as the Magic-User.
I like the latter idea, make everyone as powerful as the Magic-User

>>47296556
I might, will have to check, also I think that set is supposed to be kinda rare

>>47296636
agree, ACKS does a nice job of tweaking things so Demi-Humans and Humans are more even

So speaking of modern/post apoc/sci fi/superhero OSR stuff; why not use an alternate and simplified damage system?

Basically; if somebody successful hits you on a d20 you just take one 'damage' or count as 'injuried'. If you get hit twice, you die.

If you are a fighter, maybe you get an extra hit.

If your Con/similar stat is high enough, maybe you get an extra hit. Or if your Con is really low, you get one less hit.

As long as you attack someone with something potentially lethal, it counts. Every other attack or weapon property is based on alternate things it can do, like concealable for knives or easy to use (+1 or +2 to attack) for guns, etc.

>>47291733
>Do I really need anything more than this?
technically no, but that's also an incredibly boring set of classes as is, lacking in the inherent flavor that the traditional 3/4 Core D&D classes have, so for a Sci-Fi game I'd spread things out instead and have a ton of different classes covering a bunch of different niches, think how the Mass Effect franchise handled it, there's 6 primary Class/Roles(3 each one specializing in one of Combat, Tech usage, and Biotics/Psionics/Space Magic use, and 3 that each specialize in one of the 3 possible 2 role combinations) that cover the most important and basic roles and should be available for pretty much all campaigns, and then there's a bunch of extra classes lying around either specializing further from one of the main 6, adds in certain specific abilities, or represents how non-human races interpret one of the 6 main classes in a way different from standard humans, that might not be appropriate for every campaign, but are good to have around just in case

>>47296828
I don't like it, OSR games are often rather deadly to players as is, this would just turn it into full on Rocket Tag

>>47296763
You can get rid of Fighter the same way.

It's not like you'll need to make it your occupation ability to efficiently murder people Conan-style. Being able to makes some explosives or disable someone's security is much more vital than the ability to stab people in the face. Or shoot them (where is your auto-targeter?).

I.e. Fighter doesn't make sense and we end up with only one class. But you said:
>I want some ideas for classes.

I assumed you wanted to reduce decision-making load and provide easy archetypes. Now, if you want to go class-less, there is no problem. Just make it clear by asking "Can I justify my decision to go classless?".


> as should the Biosculpter
Not if Biosculpter turns into a Hulk. The same is for the rest of the classes.

>>47296828
> an alternate and simplified damage system
I'm trying to implement one, actually.


>>47296926
> I don't like it, OSR games are often rather deadly to players as is, this would just turn it into full on Rocket Tag
You can add more "lines of defence". Though that somewhat defeats the purpose: you get one more variable you need to keep track of.

>>47296012
>More generally, having different classes level at different rates feels weird to me; in my mind, the whole point of "level" is to have an objective measure of a character's power/ability/moxie/&c., so having a 2nd-level fighter be as good as a 3rd-level Thief defeats the purpose of slapping numbers on them.
You've misunderstood level. Level is a measurement of relative power within a specific class. Total XP is a much better measurement of power between classes.

>>47291733
A simple question: Why do you want to use OSR and not Traveller?

>>47296940
> Biosculptor

>>47296828

I'd suggest looking at the Class Battletech RPG wounds rules (they're interesting, but a tad clunky) or perhaps Mutants & Masterminds 2nd Edition's damage rules.

Basically, though, whenever you are hit, you make a Toughness save (DC 15+damage taken - in M&M this is generally the Power Score+flat weapon damage+Str or somesuch - there's no reason it wouldn't work with rolled damage). If you make the save, you're fine. If you fail the save, you take a level of damage (an Injury for lethal damage or Bruised for Nonlethal). Each Bruised condition or Lethal condition imposes a -1 cumulative penalty on all further Toughness saves vs. their respective damage types.

Fail by 5 or more, and the character is either Staggered (nonlethal) or Disabled (lethal). Staggered characters can only make a single action or movement per round, but not both. Disabled characters are conscious, but badly hurt, and will drop to Dying if they perform a strenuous action.

Fail by 10 or more and the character drops to either Unconscious or Dying. Unconscious characters obviously can't act (and are effectively out of the fight). Further damage dealt to an unconscious character is considered lethal. Dying characters are unconscious but additionally have to make a Fortitude save immediately and at every hour (DC 10+1 per previous save). If they succeed, they stay Dying for another hour. If they succeed by 10 or more, or roll a natural 20, they become Unconscious and Disabled. A character can stabilize them (putting them at Unconscious and Disabled) by making a DC 15 Medicine check or using a healing power.

>>47297045

Recovering from the conditions is pretty straightforward:

Bruised goes away at the rate of 1 minute of rest, with a Constitution check (DC 10). Failure increases the DC by 1 (why I'm not sure, this seems to be there just to punish people). At any rate, after 10 minutes of rest, 1 Bruised condition goes away anyway.

Staggered goes away the same way, but with an hour's rest. If Disabled as well, Disabled must be gotten rid of first before Staggered goes away.

Unconscious goes away with a minute of rest and a similar Con check. Dying characters have to stabilize before they can become conscious again.

Injured goes away at a rate of one hour, with a Con check, or 10 hours if you somehow manage to fail 10 checks in a row.

Disabled goes away at a rate of a day of rest plus a Con check.

Personally, I would pare down the rules and remove the Con checks, making it mostly just time/magic/tech dependent.

>>47296940

>Get rid of the Fighter

I suppose you could, but one of the tropes in SF is the Space Marine, and they'd be the heavy firepower+power armor type character.

>Biosculptor into a Hulk

It's a little outlandish for my tastes, but yes, you could create a class around every archetype, but it then begs the question of why the decker-type character can't learn how to operate drones (or would the Drone Master not only operate them, but also MAKE them as a class feature? Making their drones special with upgrades unavailable to off-the-shelf drones?), or why the Soldier/Space Marine can't be a juiced up Cyborg/Genetic Supersoldier?

I do suppose there's the discrete decision-making, but it seems odd to me to limit SF characters like that.

I'm not the guy asking for OSR ideas in this post >>47291733, but I am >>47296763

>>47297002

I guess I did indeed spell it wrong. It's late where I am.

>>47297145
> then begs the question of why the decker-type character can't learn how to operate drones
This sounds suspiciously like "Why can't anyone hide except Thief?"

>>47297145
> I'm not the guy asking for OSR ideas in this post >>47291733
Well, that explains a lot.

>>47297145

Why not just go classless as been said?

You could give those abilites out as random roles if you want to go for the more Zak style, or try something like points for abilities. Maybe go for adventurer template styles; so whenever you level you can take either a new template or a level higher of any template you already have, meaning you can specialize OR you can spread yourself out?

Personally I like the idea of randomization but I feel like you'd need a really fun group to pull it off. I wouldn't assume most people would enjoy that sort of thing on their own.

>>47297240

I note that you took it out of context, because I later brought up something that could be an answer, but whatevs.

>>47297246

Indeed.

>>47297254

Personally, I would go classless or use Alternity or even Star Frontiers. I mostly just wanted to discuss it for >>47291733's benefit (and because I like SF in general, and have gotten into OSR over the last year thanks to this general).

>>47297295

Actually I am that Anon now, I wanted to move to classless as it worked out better. But I do appreciate the thought- sorry for the confusion.

>>47297240
Not any of those guys, but one of the things I personally like in OSR games - and in fact consider one of the "core" bits of them - is how there really aren't that many classes. Each class is broad and can cover a lot of space.

Everyone can hide. The Thief is better at hiding, but they don't have exclusive access to the magical abilities of "staying out of sight".

>>47296926
>I don't like it, OSR games are often rather deadly to players as is, this would just turn it into full on Rocket Tag
A two-HP system would actually be less lethal than first-level D&D, I think? Roughly on par with second-level D&D, really.
If you're fighting someone who has a damage bonus that puts average damage at 150% of a hit die then it's on par with level three D&D as well - a 3d6 Cleric facing a 1d8+1 longsword, for instance.

I'm all in favor of having hit points equal to OD&D-style hit dice for some added progression to that system, though.

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>>47297145
>>47297240
>>47298412

To be fair, it's a lot different to say only the Decker can hack as opposed to only the Thief can hide. The Decker may be the only person with a fucking plug in his head so he can interface with computers with his brain, unlike in DnD when everyone can have a basic human ability of moving into hiding places.

>>47298412

To reiterate on the 2 hit HP idea; one concept behind AC to avoid damage is to add in a few checks and balances/combat triangles to the weapon systems. For instance, if you shoot someone with a laser gun but they have energy shields, the shields will deflect the laser back at them. But if you shoot someone without shields with a laser it will melt through and ignore their armor for instance; rockets could have anti-shield properties because they move slow enough to not trigger it but could perhaps be hacked/shot down by drone weapons. Bullets act as a happy medium where they are somewhat effected by shields and armor but are fast, accurate, and pretty deadly.

This may add unnecessary complication to some people but I feel as though using it would add some much needed depth to a system without hit dice and damage dice per weapons.

>>47298652
>To be fair, it's a lot different to say only the Decker can hack as opposed to only the Thief can hide.
I would argue that hacking with your brain implants is esoteric enough that it's closer to the Magic User's role than the thief's.

>>47299086

True, but it's the same type of concept. Something only a few special people can do, not something everyone can do but 'a little better'. They're noncomparables.

>>47296012
I generally either allow everyone to multiclass or remove it outright.
Humans get bonuses based on their ethnic group or a +1 to a given stat and a flat 5% exp bonus if the player want to be undefined foreigners.

And yes, it's a bullshit restriction since 90% of OSR play is done at low levels and most people tend to be lenient to demihumans if it ever goes beyond that.

>>47296556
>Does anyone else have it?
I can check later today if I still have my digital copy laying around.

What's the appeal of OD&D ability scores (-1/+1 max) compared to say B/X (-3/+3) in your opinion?
I haven't really made up my mind yet if I prefer AD&D-ized B/X ones or the "scores don't matter" of OD&D.

>>47299635

The obvious answer is that using OD&D scores means that there will be a bit less player's angry at unfair or unbalanced characters based on high/low ability scores and the game will be more based around class abilities then individual scores.

There is a negative that many people in the threads will not admit, since they are OSR fanboys and all, but the problem is it does make characters feel kind of samey. Even if your Wizard gets a +1 to strength using the B/X scores method makes a sort of interesting character; why is this Wizard strong? Where as OD&D will just be all 0s the vast majority of the time.

>>47294346
Isn't it the opposite?

Can't find Original Edition Delta's Book of War (OED Book of War).

Does anyone have it? Or is hiding in the Trove somewhere? Because I can't find it there.

What OSR system is the most played? I have a sword-and-sorcery fantasy setting I've been working on, and would like to publish it for an OSR system.

Preferably one based on BD&D.

Opinion on meta mechanics like Luck/Fate points in OSR games?

>>47299919
Probably the various Swords & Wizardry variatons in terms of pure numbers.

>>47300155
> Opinion on meta mechanics like Luck/Fate points in OSR games?
Meh.

I'm going to run an OSR game for my sister and her boyfriend. They want me to pre-make characters for them so they can get a feel for how the game works.

1. What system should I run? I was thinking LL or S&W.

2. What two classes would work best for a two-member party starting at level one? (I will be giving max HP at level one).

3. What's the easiest way to scale difficulty for a party of two? I realize that not every enemy has to be something they can kill, and that running away from, tricking, or just avoiding an enemy should be encouraged, but I do want them to get a taste of combat as well.

>>47300419
>1. What system should I run? I was thinking LL or S&W.
Sounds good. You could also try LotFP but maybe they will be turned off by it and maybe it's a bit further away from what you want.

>2. What two classes would work best for a two-member party starting at level one? (I will be giving max HP at level one).
Cleric and fighter maybe? I'm kinda thinking fighter + anything else. Kinda depends on what the players want to do, maybe you should ask them even though they want pre-generated characters?

>3. What's the easiest way to scale difficulty for a party of two? I realize that not every enemy has to be something they can kill, and that running away from, tricking, or just avoiding an enemy should be encouraged, but I do want them to get a taste of combat as well.
Depends on level, but I'm gonna guess that they're level 1 and then I'd probably say just use 1HD monsters if you want them to actually defeat enemies head on. You could also use enemies that don't do hitpoint damage, and instead rust their weapons or suck their brains or whatever.

>>47296012
Give humans a % XP bonus. Players love XP bonuses so much they don't even notice anymore that demihumans are better ;)

>>47300155
They are a useful 'soft balance' for altering character durability. They won't straight up save a character who would otherwise die, but little buffs now and then can go a long way to making a party last longer and succeed more.

For one-shots or gonzo grinder style games they are probably best left out, but for long games they are useful.

Altering their value (How you get them, what they give you) can also be used as on-the-fly balance.

I am working on a classless OSR system where players get point allocations at levels to invest in what they want to progress in. I am considering allowing players to use 'banked' points as +1s so they don't have dregs sitting around and don't need to bother with an extra value to track.

How difficult would it be to run a game using Lankhmar: City of Adventure (made for AD&D 2e) using Swords & Wizardry (which is based on the original D&D)?

>>47300777
Not very. Remove Clerics and give the Magic-User Spell lists split into black, white and grey magic. (arguably including Cleric and/or Druid spells in there)
Have Fighters and Thieves as the core classes.
I'd listen to this and read the recommendations to get a feel how to make a city come alive: http://www.drinkspinrun.com/2015/06/episode-142-urban-campaigns-citycrawl.html
Although from what I recall that was kind of a shit adaptation of the City?

I'm personally waiting for the Goodman Games box set to start my Lankhmar game.

>>47300916
>Goodman Games box set
I'm totally unaware of this. Mind telling me about it?

>>47301015
>Although from what I recall that was kind of a shit adaptation of the City?
DCC RPG boxset being made by the guys whose (newer) adventure modules all reek of Appendix N style sword & sorcery.
They've released three mini modules so far: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/36/Goodman-Games/subcategory/187_23966/DCC-Lankhmar

But they're in the middle of making a boxset and will Kickstart it when it's near finished. (no worries there since Goodman has done the same for many previous succesful boxsets)

According to Michael Curtis of Goodman:
"The boxed set will hold three booklets: a players guide containing optional and alternate DCC RPG rules for running "literary style" Lankhmar adventures, a judge's book detailing Nehwon and containing new magic, patrons, advice, campaign building, etc.; and a Lankhmar City book designed to be used to run urban-based adventures in Lankhmar. This is part city book, part at-the-table reference for the judge to help him create new NPCs, plots, random happenings, unexpected buildings, etc. at the table. All of the information in the boxed set can be transported into a "core" DCC RPG game and vice-versa. Also, expect at least a city map and a Nehwon map in the boxed set."

"The plan is to release the boxed set which will cover getting a DCC Lankhmar campaign running and setting adventures in Lankhmar City proper. Later releases will move beyond the walls of Lankhmar, adding additional material via adventures and supplemental material. We might release an Ilthmar book next that also covers Ningauble's Cave, then move on the Quarmall, then to the Forest Lands, etc."
"Some material from the three preview releases of 2015 will appear in the boxed set, but they will not be reproduced in their entirety. A new adventure will be included and "Masks of Lankhmar" will likely never be reproduced in the Lankhmar line as part of another book. Pick that one up if you want to include its contents in you DCC Lankhmar collection."

>>47301015
Savage Worlds also released some Lankhmar stuff although I found the core bit of that to be just okay-ish. (still better than the AD&D2e stuff though)

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>>47296556
Here, Thieves World both the old and new one plus the books: https://mega.nz/#F!YEAjyKyB!vh3iJI5IDZ7hL7tOoQw76Q
The 1981 stuff is only missing the T1 through T4 adventures and Sanctuary Under the Beysibs splatbook but the actual boxset stuff is complete.
For the new Green Ronin books only Black Snake Dawn is missing.

>tfw helping /tg/ers spread pdf copies when i'm trying to sell my physical copy

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>>47296012

>class balance and progression.
>demihumans are just all-around better than humans

The elf con penalty is probably more significant at level 1 then infravision during the whole campaign. Paralysis immunity has come up like all of 2 times as well.

I really think you're overstating it. I mean compared to 3.x where you level at the same rate and the differences in effectiveness are goddamn huge.

> half the table is having less fun at any given point in the campaign.

OSR might not be for your group then. Not telling you to GTFO, but seriously there is tons of shit my group isn't into.

>having a 2nd-level fighter be as good as a 3rd-level Thief

What? Dude like a 2nd level fighter could and probably will slap the shit out of a 6th or 8th level thief depending on edition. If thieves didn't level at a faster rate they'd be even more useless.

>I just a retarded faggot?

Maybe.

Take a look at ACKS first off. Second, pick a specific system, because there is a shitload of OSR and I know at least a few have different takes on leveling.

Third you have to understand this imbalance in the first place was to emulate the genre fiction. It was supposed to be about heroic humans in a time where elves and dwarves were losing their place in the world. The level caps on them were intentional.

Fourth class balance as we think of it in a post well 4e game design just wasn't a thing 30+ years ago. Niche protection and having enough roles for bigger groups was more important.

tl;dr it's not that you're wrong, its that you're missing the point.

>>47300155

>Opinion on meta mechanics like Luck/Fate points

Sure.

>in OSR games?

Fuck no.

They can be fun or interesting, but defeat the whole purpose of OSR.

>>47300419

Beyond the Wall. It's really noob friendly.

>>47301938
>>>47300155
>>They can be fun or interesting, but defeat the whole purpose of OSR.

Explain, please. I quite liked the Luck addition in DCC.

>>47266738
Carcosa and A Red & Pleasant Land are probably my favorite "I have no idea how to run this because I'm not good enough" settings. Back in the days, I loved Dark Sun and Spelljammer

>>47267406
"The massacre will continue until quality of play improves". You don't die that much in player-skill based games (most of the OSR) if you play well.

But if you want a character-skill based game, which are not necessarily easier but are far less lethal, I think D&D 5e is a pretty good game.

Obviously, that's assuming you want to play D&D, because there are a shitton of great games that aren't D&D, too.

Barbarians of Lemuria is fucking awesome if you want to play badass hyper-competent heroes like Conan. I'm currently writing a Borderlands Homebrew setting for this game.

>>47267756
Yes. Just reskin it as a Ranger, works the same as a Hobbit.

Here are secret classes you wouldn't have suspected of existing :

Barbarian! (Fighter or Dwarf or Halfling)
Sorcerer! (Elf, or just take the Sorcerer from Carcosa)
Anything-based-around-a-mundane-occupation! (Specialist, the skill list isn't exhaustive and those are not skills, those are abilities that everyone can do and that Specialists do better).
Gnome! (Halfling)
Dragonborn! (Dwarf)
Drow! (Elf)
Et cetera.

>>47284180
>Neat. Read the Bible and the Torah as inspirational shit. The Old Testament is full of crazy shit.

>>47266738
anyone know of any Aztec of Native American inspired OSR setting or system??

>>47302310
Specifically OSR (post 2000), or Maztica would suffice?

>>47301551
Most gracious of you, Anon! May your penis never be eaten by devilboars!

>>47302943
I am mostly looking for indie stuff, I already know about maztica, sons and azca and the like.

You absolutely have to run a published module for a group that's never played a tabletop RPG before, and do your best to make sure they have a good time.

What module do you pick?

>>47303121
Tower of the Stargazer.

>>47303121
>>47303298
Or Death Frost Doom.

>>47299919
>What OSR system is the most played?
Not sure. Based on how much I hear about them, I would think Labyrinth Lord, Swords & Wizardry and Lamentations of the Flame Princess would all be up there.

What's a good OSR system for WW2 stuff? Guns and tanks and Nahtzees.

>>47300155

I'm against them in general, since they act as a get-out-of-jail-free card, and are used essentially to avoid consequences.

>>47303298
I'd second this. Shadowbrook Manor and the Grinding Gear are fun too.

>>47279226
>Psssh... nothing personnel kid

>>47300155
I understand folks who think they're against the gritty, unforgiving tone of OSR, but I don't have a problem with them, and if you keep their power limited on the defensive end, they don't end up being "get out of jail free" cards. It can be kind of nice having something that allows a player to say "my character is pulling out all the stops on this one, because this is something I really care about".

>>47300155
I don't think they fit the play style that OSR is intending to promote, one that heavily promotes player skill and emergent narratives. Drama and heroism and tragedy all come about through the confluence of multiple factors, not because someone (either the GM or the players) decides that "now is the moment" for it.

>>47303121
B4 The Lost City.

>>47300419
Stick an NPC in there with them. That will pad the party out and allow you to interject things in character when you need somebody to point out the obvious or be the voice of reason (just make sure not to usurp their agency by being too assertive or forceful--the NPC should be more of a helpful backing character). Then, make 3 characters and let them each choose one. Or I guess you could make the NPC as an explicit support character (a cleric is nice for this, or a thief if you intend for their to be traps and shit to contend with).

A fighter is a good, simple-but-solid character for a noob. A race-as-class elf is nice if you want somebody to be able to dabble in magic while having some fighting to fall back on (and not being as squishy and tricky to play as a magic-user). They're unfortunately overpowered though, so you might want to gimp them a bit (see >>47288043
and >>47296606).*

Clerics are actually pretty good starting characters, as they're reasonable durable and reasonably good fighters on top of the spells they start getting at 2nd level. The only problem is that there are a lot of people, myself included, who aren't really into the concept of clerics, at least how their executed in D&D.


*The least radical way to do reduce their power is simply to bar them from using two-handed weapons, shields, and armor heavier than chainmail. This sets them apart from fighters, but they still step on the toes of magic-users. Personally, I like using a three-level spell progression (wherein, they gain a new level of spells every 3 levels rather than every 2, like the table here >>47296606). Either do that and keep their XP progression as it is in Basic, or combine it with the armor and weapons limitations I just mentioned, and reduce their XP requirements to those of a magic-user.

>>47303468
OSRIC still has a lot of following too, but I think you nailed it.

LotFP sells best, that's for sure, but S&W and LL also have tons of free shit so who knows.

>>47300155
I'm very much against them. Basically every stat in OSR is something that is tangible in the world: physical endurance, reflexes, intelligence, that sort of thing. All the decisions you make are, therefore, based on in-world factors.
Meta-game mechanics, such as fate points and stuff, aren't an in-world thing. They're a meta-thing stapled over the top, and that means when you think about using them, you're thinking on a game tactics level, not an in-world level.
TL::DR dissasociated mechanics :C

>>47266738

I come from this thread
>>47305848

looking for the wisdom of OSRg : which game would you use as a basis for a Cyberpunk reskin, what rules do you think would be needed, what rules should move, and what should stay the same?

>>47305995
I personally think that D&D in general is a poor basis for a modern or futuristic game. Ramping hit points and rigid classes work better in a fantasy setting.

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>>47300216
>>47300672
>>47301938
>>47302046
>>47303803
>>47303913
>>47304008
>>47305675

To add on to the concept a little bit; I was asking because I was thinking of ways to 'balance' starting gold a little bit. Essentially if a character rolls something on starting gold they get the opposite side of the die in luck points. So if you start off rich and roll a 6, you only get 1 luck point, where as if you start poor with a 1 or 2, you'd get 6 or 5 luck points as a trade off.

Of course in this instance these luck points may never actually come back once spent and could be as weak or as strong as the GM wants. Doing something like offering a save reroll is one solution, or maybe you could use it to get a lucky hit in on a monster or dodge an attack coming your way, or maybe reduce its damage by half all for the cost of 1 point which never comes back.

Legacy or apprentice style characters you get to inherit a character's wealth after death probably wouldn't be allowed to start with very many or any luck points as a trade off.

It's not a necessary thing but I thought it might be a nice way to make poor starting characters feel like they haven't been completely ruined by the dice.

>>47306049
So no ramping hit points, and less rigidity in the classes. That's a start actually.
I feel you, it feels weird too, but I have a good memory of a few LotFP one-shots where I did Cyberpunk with casual gaming friends. As in, we're hanging out and someone mentions RPGs are cool so I DM something out of my ass.

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After some issues with the printing stuff, the first hard copy of Wolfpacks is being sent to me as proof. Assuming there's no problems with the printing, a paper version should be up and purchaseable in a couple of weeks.

>>47306114
Cyberpunk can certainly have "roles" (and probably takes to them better than most modern / futuristic games), but beyond having maybe a special power or two (a decker / netrunner can do the decking / netrunning thing), there really isn't much need to differentiate. Like, in D&D, to-hit, saving throws, hit dice, and weapon and armor allowances are all determined by your class. For the most part, modern and futuristic games work better with some sort of skill-based system, though you could with very broad ones--careers like in Barbarians of Lemuria, for instance. Actually, BoL has a number of futuristic hacks, and it might be worth looking into those to see if they're any good and could serve as the foundation for a minimalist Cyberpunk game (assuming you didn't just want to work straight from BoL).

Barbarians of the Aftermath -- https://www.sendspace.com/file/sgl68c

Barbarians of the Void -- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_s7AHDCtljfZkVPMGEwZ1lwdVk/view?pref=2&pli=1

Barbarians of the Future -- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxEfFjJxTck7cmNzaEtvV1NvbWM/edit?pref=2&pli=1

Barbarians of Lemuria,Mythic Edition (current edition) -- https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7llc83r2xf8bg/Barbarians_of_Lemuria_-_Mythic_Edition

Barbarians of Lemuria, Legendary Edition (simpler but less refined) -- http://www.mediafire.com/download/p5w885sa9a869ma/Barbarians+Of+Lemuria+-+Legendary+Edition.pdf

Barbarians of Lemuria, House Rules / Patches for Legendary Edition -- https://mega.co.nz/#F!CtQR2bST!y_awB-GHCiL3CdK4iLCV7A

>>47306114
Is there a cyberpunk supplement for Basic Roleplaying? Because it seems like a percentile skill-based system like that would work well.

>>47306533
Oops. Links for Barbarians of the Void and Barbarians of the Future are reversed.

>>47306533
I know and love Barbarians of Lemuria, and it's actually my second choice to build from, aside from LotFP (it has the grittiness).
I have no idea how to make the four career thing work out though.

>>47306564
There are, but I'm not a fan of rolling percentile dices in general. Unkown Armies is close enough.

Why do people like LotFP? I've read the book and can't figure out why it's one of the more popular OSR games.

>>47306654
It's tight, whole, has a great layout and has basically everything well-thought out and well written (for exemple, the abilities are described in a way that promotes Player Skill over Character Skill, since it is explicitly stated that Charisma isn't about your personality or beauty, or that Intelligence is only the character's knowlege prior to the begining of the game).

Can somebody explain how the "attacks per round" in AD&D works? I don't understand what things like "2/3" mean.

>>47306818
I don't know about 2/3, but if it helps, a specialized Fighter will attack twice every other round at first level.

>>47306639
Careers... hmm...
decker / netrunner
fixer
nomad
solo / hired gun / gunslinger
agent (law enforcement)
augment? (rank = cybernetics)
bruiser / brawler / enforcer / thug
martial artist?
spy (covert ops, intelligence--maybe have ninja and reporter as two careers instead)
pilot / driver?
mechanic / engineer
cult of personality / celebrity / face / leader
demolitionist?
thief
con man

Some of them need better names, and you could maybe drop a few or reorganize them a bit, but that seems like a decent start.

>>47306936
I think augs will be Boons (or Flaws).
Good ideas overall, but I feel there's some overlap here. Thanks a lot!

>>47306654
It's a very clean clone mechanically.

>>47306818
Download OSRIC if you want rules clarifications for AD&D 1E.
From what I recall 3/2 meant that every 2 rounds your Fighter had 3 attacks. So the first round is 1 attack, the second is 2 attacks, the third is 1 attack, repeat ad nauseam.

>>47306818
2/3 means that you get two attacks for every three rounds. I'm pretty sure that specific combination never comes up, though.

For an example that's actually a thing, 3/2 means that the Fighter gets three attacks over the course of two rounds: two attacks, then one, then two, then one, ad infinitum.
Although it might be split one/two/one/two, I guess. I'm not really sure what the "proper" rule is.

>>47307002
Yes.

>>47307019
That's it, 3/2 attacks. It's what first level Specialized Fighters do. AD&D 2 and its Longswords, goddamnit.

>>47307019

Sorry, I'm at work and don't have the material in front of me, so I had to ask from memory. Thanks for the clarification; that's what I asked if meant, but I wanted to be sure.

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>>47306818
It's 3/2. Three attacks every two rounds. You get 2 attacks one round, 1 attack the next, switching back and forth. You could have something you flip over on the table to keep track of whether it's an odd-numbered round (2 attacks) or an even-numbered one (1 attack).

Alternately, you could skip that and let them make 2 attacks every round, but when they do, they get a -3 penalty to hit. (Actually, I'd go about it the other way. Lower their THAC0 by 3, but give them a +3 bonus if they ever want to make a single strike, though that isn't usually going to be to their advantage unless the target is really hard to hit.)

I also banged together a system which uses poker chips to come up with a similar but smoother extra attack progression to the one in AD&D. Once a fighter reaches 6th level, he can earn additional attacks by drawing poker chips each round. By spending two poker chips (or, to look at it another way, by spending 1 chip instead of drawing 1 chip), he can make two strikes. By varying the number of starting chips (from -1, meaning he doesn't draw a chip on the 1st round of combat, to 2, meaning that he can make an additional attack on the first two rounds of combat once you take the two chips he draws during that period into account). You can hold off on taking additional attacks to collect more chips, but you can never hold more than 3 chips at one time.

>>47303770
Anyone?

>>47306973
>I feel there's some overlap here.
Oh, definitely. You'd have to go through and clean things up, and decide what to drop or how to redefine things when there's too much overlap (though honestly BoL, itself, probably has too much overlap).

>I think augs will be Boons (or Flaws).
That might be a little limiting unless you change the rules around a bit. Maybe you could get a couple and then an augment career would give you access to more? If you can spend flat XP on them, then at a certain point they start being a better deal than advancing your abilities / attributes / careers (once they get some ranks in them and start costing more).

>>47307391
Lamentations of the Flame Princess.

>tfw LotFP is the GURPS of OSR

>>47303770
>>47307391
For my part, I can only repeat what I said about doing Cyberpunk with D&D, which is that I don't think the rigid classes and ramping hit points (and lack of a developed skill system) really makes D&D ideal for this sort of thing.

>>47307423
The way I saw it, you need experience (and cash, maybe I'll use Honor + Intrigue's Wealth stat, and call it something cooler) to "buy" augs because there's the whole process of butchering your body and forcing dangerous ware inside it then letting the nervous strain adjust. Plus, I'm not sure whether or not being augmented would count as a career and how it would work if you want to use them.

>>47307461
>>I feel there's some overlap here.
>Oh, definitely. You'd have to go through and clean things up, and decide what to drop or how to redefine things when there's too much overlap (though honestly BoL, itself, probably has too much overlap).
>>I think augs will be Boons (or Flaws).
>That might be a little limiting unless you change the rules around a bit. Maybe you could get a couple and then an augment career would give you access to more? If you can spend flat XP on them, then at a certain point they start being a better deal

>>47307461
>>47307391 was asking about WWII actually.
I understand your concern, and some good anon's advices led me to BoL instead, which means more badass PCs, which probably will help a lot.

>>47306357
Cool! I'm broke and already have way too many games that I'll never end up playing, so I'm unlikely to buy anything, but it seems like a neat idea and I think it's cool that you actually got this thing off the ground. Good luck!

>>47307485
>Plus, I'm not sure whether or not being augmented would count as a career and how it would work if you want to use them.
As far as rationalizing augment as a career, it would mainly be a mechanical contrivance, though I do think that somebody who got a bunch of cybernetics (more than the ones you could get with boons) would tend to have more knowledge about the whole area than most folks, and would maybe be able to tinker with and tune shit, and maybe perform minor repairs (though maybe a tinker / cyberneticist / cyberdoc / roboticist / technologist career would be necessary to do anything major). But it probably doesn't matter too much with BoL how exactly you do things, since so much of it comes down to GM improvisation.

>>47307340
>By varying the number of starting chips
...you can smooth the progression so that you don't suddenly increase your attack power by more than 50%.

(I got lost in my parenthetical comments and forgot there needed to be an end to that sentence.)

>>47306654
Its easy to pick up, irons out kinks in B/X and has a slew of great, original modules.

>>47306049
>I personally think that D&D in general is a poor basis for a modern or futuristic game. Ramping hit points and rigid classes work better in a fantasy setting.
personally I think your wrong, it can work just fine if handled right, your way of thinking is that of the lazy person

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Can Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1st Ed. Circa 1986 be considered OSR? A decade after AD&D but 3 years before AD&D 2nd Ed.

>>47308456
Using a hammer instead of a screwdriver to bury a nail isn't lazy; it's rational. And sure, you can turn that screwdriver around, bang the nail in with the handle, and get the job done, but there's really no point when you have access to a superior tool.

>>47308596
most of those "superior tools" suck though

>>47308575
Typically, OSR centers specifically around old school D&D, because that's all one discussion, while Warhammer, Star Frontiers and RuneQuest are entirely different conversations without much overlap. With that said, there's nothing wrong with discussing other old school games here (maybe they'd generate a little extra traffic), though I'm not sure how much of a response you're going to get. But let me ask you: what about Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay recommends itself? What is you like about the system? What does it do better or worse than old school D&D? I have no experience with it beyond a bit of scuttlebutt.

>>47308608
D&D isn't perfect, and it's tooled for a drastically different setting.

>>47308679

It's a damn shame OSR has come to be synomous with D&D exclusively. Not many of the early RPGs have survived to the present day save Tunnels & Trolls, Traveller and Runequest. .

>>47296012
Are there any more of Book of the New Sun adventures?

>>47303121
Caverns of Thracia, motherfuckers.

>>47308868
>It's a damn shame OSR has come to be synomous with D&D exclusively.
There needs to be a shorthand for old school D&D and its derivatives. Like I was saying, that's really a unified subject, whereas a broader definition of OSR is just "a bunch of different old games". I mean, that's the era I grew up in, and I definitely have an attachment to some of those games, but it doesn't mean much until you specify which one you're talking about. But again, I don't think anybody would object to you bringing one up here. The real problem is getting enough people with experience with it and interest in it to get a conversation going. And a lot of that just comes down to the fact that D&D is huge and has legacy that anchors it to its past, while a lot of the other games are comparatively obscure and/or lost to the sands of time.

>>47300777
Try using Crypts and Things, a sword and sorcery hack of S&W. You wouldn't have to houserule a thing; their magic system is almost identical to the way magic works in the F&tGM stories.

>>47302310
Isn't Tekumel borderline this, with some Indian stuff thrown in too?

>>47303121
>>47304055
This. Maybe the most fun I've ever had with any module for any system.

None of you know shit about OSR. I'm FreddyP bitch, I rule Dragonsfoot. Come at me and I'll school you.

>>47309435
This looks awesome, thanks! Is it in the Trove?

>>47311177 here.
Never mind, found it!

>>47308868
T&T still is around, Runequest and its derivatives (Call of Cthulhu, etc.)are backwards compatible to their very first editions, Traveller is Traveller. Note that retroclones like GORE or 4C have died out because of the ready availability of the rulesets they emulate. There just isn't a need for them.

I want something that's "one big book" like Rules Cyclopedia, including monsters and so on, but more clearly tuned toward sword and sorcery like Crypts & Things, Barbarians of Lemuria, Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea, etc., that's a few hundred pages long, I can buy one time in hardback, and that I can use to build campaigns for years to come.

Does something like this exist?

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I played RPGs a lot with my grandfather when I was a kid (in the 1990s). He had OD&D, BD&D, and AD&D 1e and 2e stuff that he had used to play with my father and his friends when my father was a kid/teenager.

He still has that stuff, but wants to keep it so he can play with my cousin. This is 100% fair; it's his stuff, and I want my cousin to have fun, too. However, I don't own any RPG books as the only RPing I've done since then has been via roll20 using PDFs, and playing 3.5 with college friends using their books.

I'd really like to get a high quality physical book or two (I find them easier to use than PDFs, enjoy the aesthetic experience of flipping through an RPG manual, and want to financially support the hobby), plus some dice and graph paper, and get back into RPGs more heavily, but I don't want to waste money on a book I'm unlikely to enjoy.

What's the best BD&D clone that's available for sale in a high quality physical format, and that isn't LotFP since I plan to game with a wide variety of people (including possibly some friends' kids in a few years)?

>>47311897
>>47312147
I'd like to help you guys out but I honestly have no idea what's available in hardback these days,

>hear Hackmaster is like AD&D+ or something
>watch a review
>based entirely on a point-buy system
How the fuck is this even moderately OSRish?

>>47312147
Not sure what the quality of the book is (other than being black and white, that is), but Labyrinth Lord is probably the closest thing out there to Moldvay Basic, and is what I'd consider the industry standard for "faithful" retroclones. It might be looking into as it's a fairly safe system that's unlikely to alienate anybody who's into OSR.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/daniel-proctor/labyrinth-lord-revised-edition-hard-cover/hardcover/product-15061706.html

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/64332/Labyrinth-Lord-Revised-Edition?sorttest=true&filters=0_0_31807_0_0

There's also the advanced edition companion if you want AD&D options built on top of Basic's more streamlined system.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/daniel-proctor/advanced-edition-companion-hardcover/hardcover/product-15061725.html

http://drivethrurpg.com/product/78523/Advanced-Edition-Companion-Labyrinth-Lord?filters=0_2140_44827_0_0

>>47311897
DCC.

>>47312587
Thanks! I've heard it's good. I just need to find a review of the physical book rather than just the rules themselves. Such a review seems to not exist. I just want to be sure it won't physically fall apart in a year or two.

>>47312732
Ive only held the Advanced Editions in my hands, but it is a solid, albeit thin, harback. Cant see it wasting away anytime soon.

>>47312484
The latest version of Hackmaster is a bit of a departure from the older stuff, which was more "AD&D cranked up to 11" in the worst possible way, as I remember it.

I'm tempted to make a Super Sentai/Power Rangers/Kamen Rider game based on B/X rules.

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I'm running Tower o the Stargazer right now and I swear to fucking christ one of them, willfully, almost let that wizard out. Even after he stopped being a goofy, jovial old man and snapped.

Its been tough getting a group together, but goddamn, that single dice roll determined whether tonight was a TPK and probably deterring all these new players away & me having a hard time convincing them RPGs are still fun. Fucking retards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsBKM5puZDM

I can't stop listening to this.

is it worth it to try and make my own campaign ? I've only DM'ed one game before - two sessions, it was the Grimmsgate starter adventure.

That said, what are some good OSR adventures for low level characters that I could extend for atleast 5 sessions, probably more (ill be running a game over summer)

>>47306111
You can make a list of random equipment sets and roll on it instead of rolling for gold.


>>47308575
> considered OSR
No, but it can be considered Old School. I.e. OSR would be some modern retro-clone of WHFRP 1.

No problems about discussing it. Though I'm somewhat familiar only with WHFRP 2.


>>47308868
> It's a damn shame OSR has come to be synomous with D&D exclusively. Not many of the early RPGs have survived to the present day save Tunnels & Trolls, Traveller and Runequest. .

Well, it's not synonymous for me. T&T is in the Trove, and I personally consider Mongosse Traveller (circa 2008, retro-clone of Classic Traveller) to be OSR. Though I'm trying to make my system (it does not work like DnD) work with old DnD modules.


>>47309000
> The real problem is getting enough people with experience with it and interest in it to get a conversation going.
Maybe we should start putting "old Traveller and WHFRP editions welcome" on the OP?

>>47313257
>is it worth it to try and make my own campaign ?
Sure. It's something everybody should do eventually. If you're unsure of yourself, you can always rip scenarios and encounters out of modules.
>What are some good OSR adventures for low level characters that I could extend for atleast 5 sessions
I've gotta say that I think most modules are way too long and finding one to last 5 sessions doesn't seem like much of a challenge to me. Though some groups must move a lot faster than mine.

One thing to keep in mind if you're playing an old school module is that most of them were intended for an obscene number of PCs, so you might have to enhance smaller parties (make the characters a higher level, give them magic items to help them out, etc.). Personally, I've always liked B3 Palace of the Silver Princess (the revised, green cover), and shied away from the much hyped, sandboxy B2 Keep on the Borderlands. Then again, I'm not a big fan of sandbox games, at least not the reality of them. Conceptually, they're fine, but in practice I've rarely had a good experience, and they are certainly trickier to pull off.

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>>47312484
>based entirely on a point-buy system
Was it 5th edition?

They toned down the whole GROGNARD nonsense (the only selling point of the game, if you ask me). Check the first edition (i.e. 4th edition, from 2001).

>>47312147
>>47312732
I'd say ACKS has the best actual Book Quality of any of the BX/BECMI/RC D&D derivatives, as both the core book and the Player's Companion are beautiful books

although Basic Fantasy RPG is also pretty good quality for the price it's sold for on Amazon

>>47312883
would certainly be interesting, have contemplated doing a game based on 90's FPS games thanks to Doom 4 myself

>>47312933
My players did almost the same thing, although it never came down to a dice roll. They realized that it probably wasn't a good idea.
It's great though, if they do release the wizard they have nobody to blame but themselves.

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>>47313361
That pic.

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>>47314233
That's a joke, you know.

Kenzer and Co were publishing comics (Knights of the Dinner Table) that referenced (imaginary) RPG Hackmaster with over-the-top rules. Eventually people started demanding from Kenzer to publish the game. So he did.

>>47311897
ACKS is this, isn't it? I don't have it myself so I don't know if it contains monsters, but I always had the impression that it was basically a B/X derivative but cloning the Rules Cyclopedia's form.

>>47308575
It cannot be considered OSR in that it's not a D&D derivative, but in terms of play style, of spirit and atmosphere (if you look at WFRP 1e and disregard the adventure modules that were published for it), it's definitely one of the closest games to old-school D&D there is, far moreso than late AD&D, even. It's even designed to be hooked seamlessly into a miniature wargame system! The main difference in terms of feel is that PCs never get to the tiers of power they do in high-level D&D (even OD&D); it's effectively a sort of low-level/E6 homebrew variant in that sense. I always recommend it to people who like the OSR style but don't enjoy the strength of character progression (as well as to people who miss Warhammer Quest, but that's beside the point for this thread).

>>47314336
Specifically, it's a joke about Gygax's hardline attitude about houseruling AD&D, isn't it?

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>>47315165
> Specifically, it's a joke about Gygax's hardline attitude about houseruling AD&D, isn't it?
Rolling attributes? Well, yes. You could say so. Hackmaster is more about role-playing crazy roleplayers, rather then simply being some sort of Gygax joke. And it does have point-buy, btw.

> It cannot be considered OSR in that it's not a D&D derivative
Well, being DnD retro-clone is just one of the main guidelines of OSR.

>>47315330
>Rolling attributes?
Not the attribute-rolling itself, but the quote in >>47313361's pic. "Such methods are not tolerated and not tournament legal" etc.

>>47308575
I've seen at least like three OSR hacks of WFRP 1E.
But really these threads are more like "old school gaming in a particular few styles which are neither linear nor narrativist" than "this absolutely must fall under this other set of rigid structures".

>>47314049
>>47312933
If they release him right away, he is likely to let them get off his property, right?

>>47315468
Only correct answer here is "you're the referee, play it the way you want to". (I'd probably want to run it that way myself.)

>>47315479
Of course, I think I will as well. It will all depend on the circumstance, sure, but if they don't walk around with piles of his stuff in their arms or try to milk him of worth before freeing him, I wont screw them over.

>>47315419
I kinda want to agree with this, but the problem is that I'm pretty sure people would immediately insist their favorite old game's playstyle is totally old school and disregard the OSR being a distinct thing rather than just some brand of approval, like those Runequestfags that showed up a few times being butthurt that it didn't count.

It's better to stick to /osrg/ being about original-style D&D (which is what OSR means on the rest of the internet anyway) and just informally welcome people who talk about running their megadungeon with WHFRP or similar systems, IMO.

>>47315468
>He will offer the characters a reward (100gp total) for just brushing a bit of the salt away so he can escape.
>If he is released, he will thank the characters, and insist that they leave immediately as he has much to do to set his tower right. If they agree to leave he will go to the treasure room (Dungeon Level 2) and grant the reward as promised. He will retain his good nature as long as the PCs are cooperative.

>>47315468
My players wanted to attack him, in which case I would have played it so that he just starts attacking them right away.

I actually think that's one of the trickier things about the module. The wizard seems to be stuck inside the circle but any outside force on him will push him outside anyway. There really isn't really a way for the players to test it out so I could see someone attacking the wizard expecting him to just be bounced around within the circle or something.

How do you guys go about making Elves, Dwarves and Half-Elves interesting? Any cool societies or cultures, from your game or from products you've read?
I'll be running an introductory campaign for people who have never roleplayed before using Swords & Wizardry Complete, potentially moving on toward DCC later on, so i'm keeping most of the standard stuff they'd expect from D&D like those races but I can't for the life of me find something interesting about the standard ones.

>>47315699
>There really isn't really a way for the players to test it out
Does there need to be, though?

>I could see someone attacking the wizard expecting him to just be bounced around within the circle or something.
But doesn't that basically make the player retarded? I mean, that seems to me like an obviously stupid thing to do, both in-character (why try to hurt this guy when he's already trapped and harmless?) and meta (obviously this guy isn't placed here to be currently powerless AND ALSO easily killable and helpless if you try to fuck with him).

I don't wanna be That Guy here, but that seems to me like a shoe-in example of teaching player skill, as well as a lesson the players should have already picked up loud and clear from the door handles.

>>47315918
> How do you guys go about making Elves, Dwarves and Half-Elves interesting?
Much more important question: how do you go about making Humans interesting?

> Any cool societies or cultures, from your game or from products you've read?
I don't have Half-Elves and all Elves are fashion-obsessed to the utmost. They've literally reshaped their bodies to fit their esthetics better: antlers on the heads, four arms, purple fur, dark-grey skin with metallic orange lines, and so on.

Lots of variants (none Legolas-style), but it is literally punishable by death to call any Elf anything other than beatiful.

Drow split off during Fashion Wars, because they've refused to accept this nonsense. Drow are elven nuns.

>>47315981
>Does there need to be, though?
No.

>But doesn't that basically make the player retarded?
Maybe, it definitely depends on how the players think and how they're used to encounters.

I agree with you, I do think that the encounter isn't that big of a deal. I just meant that it's an encounter that has to be dealt with well by the DM, to make sure the players don't get confused about the situation.

>>47315918
Take suggestions from the players, implicitly or explicitly. If a player assumes that elves are one way, make them that way. It's probably easier for the players to get than something more ambitious, given that this is their first time roleplaying. Baby steps and all that. Stereotypes have reasons to be reused, after all.

And yeah, what >>47316062 said. How do you make your humans interesting, and can you apply those methods to demihumans as well?

Also, when in doubt, steal like a motherfucker.

Labyrinth Lord is a BECMI clone, right? If so, I think I'll order it and maybe a couple highly regarded modules online.

>>47317069
It's a B/X clone, which isn't exactly the same, but it's 97% the same as the B and E portions of BECMI, so your plan's solid. Do it.

But houserule the Cleric back to not having a spell on level 1. Shit's fucked.

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>>47315468
We were well past his niceness.

>>47315981
>>47316154
>be lv.1, poor, novice adventurers.
>find lightning-rod tower full of fucked up corpses, arcana & trickery.
>find diary confirming Wizard is corrupt & evil.
>player who finds it reads it to Wizard (who is still pretending to be nice).
>Wizard snaps, screaming, threatening them all, shooting magic missiles within his magic bubble etc.
>"GET ME OUT OF THIS FUCKING SALT OR I WILL SEND YOUR SOULS INTO THE VOID."

"I think we can take him."

>fires arrow at Wizard (lv. 12)
>rolls a 6 and misses
>momentum from a hit would have pushed him out of the circle.
>immediate Death spell would have incurred.
>sup, TPK.

mfw.

I was even nice enough to not have the retarded dog one of them sent over sniff/lick away a portion of the salt circle.

question: last night, I had 2 players fall unconscious, but not dead. neither of the other two players had *any* way of helping to heal. also, no retainers etc.

how do I keep those 2 players engaged in the game or having fun (and not getting butthurt) without nerfing everything. I went cheapo and let them all "full rest" for the night, and told them it would bring them to 1hp each, even without aid. I even flat out said it was a one-time houserule just for the night, to keep them participants.

>>47317431
>"I think we can take him."
I'm sorry, Anon, but your player has the autism. Not just sperging, but full-blown autism. He's That Guy. You have to put him down before he bites someone and spreads it.

>>47317110
>Shit's fucked.
Are level 1 clerics so good that having a spell makes them ridiculous or something? What's wrong with it?

>>47317646
>What's wrong with it?
For one thing, their XP progression's based on them having a pretty feeble first level that they quickly get out of. Just straight up having an M-U-alike spell progression snaps that shit in half; it's not for nothing the Magic-User has the slowest level progression of all the base classes.

Second, Clerics already get mid-tier HP, top tier armor, good saves, decent melee weapons and turn undead. They're nearly as frontloaded as Elves, but they level up to 2 in 1/3 the time.

Third, it just ain't Basic. A straight Basic clone (and Labyrinth Lord's one of the straightest) shouldn't change things that major IMO. Adventures for first-level PCs don't expect them to have access to magical healing.

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>>47317637
I think her main problem is that in her head, she is a powerful, stoic, nomadic forest-elf with blood warpaint on her face. But her stats say she is a squishy fat kid with a nerf-sword. And she can't correlate the two. She's been a smart, clever player up until that single impossibly stupid moment.

>>47317768
Oh, I should probably add: I'm well aware that "based on them having a pretty feeble first level" and "nearly as frontloaded as Elves" are mutually contradictory. The explanation is I just don't think they really realized how much they frontloaded the Cleric with and figured spells were ultimately its main act, so they designed the XP to be based on level 1 being weak, despite it not really being true.

>>47317779
Yech, I know that one. Classic problem of the player making a character before rolling it up.

>I want to play A!
NO
WRONG
YOU WANT TO ROLL ONE UP AND SEE WHAT YOU GET

>>47317768
>Third, it just ain't Basic. A straight Basic clone (and Labyrinth Lord's one of the straightest) shouldn't change things that major IMO. Adventures for first-level PCs don't expect them to have access to magical healing.
...Unless the adventure in question is for BECMI, in which case they do expect that.

Adventure differences don't get really weird until late Expert, though, since that's the bit where the B/X characters have twice as good saves and shit.

>>47317866
One thing I think works well is "roll 3d6 in order. Roll 3d6 one more time. Swap any two numbers. Drop the extra." This allows for players to have VERY, VERY slightly better stats than 3d6 in order, lets them have a better chance of choosing the class they want, but doesn't actually unbalance the game at all or significantly change the "dems the breaks" nature of OSR.

>>47318187
>...Unless the adventure in question is for BECMI, in which case they do expect that.
What? No. BECMI/RC doesn't have Cleric spells on level 1 either. I ought to know, RC's my favorite edition.

I kind of want to make adventure modules for Labyrinth Lord or Swords & Wizardry, and try to sell them. Can you recommend for me some of the best modules around so that I can see how the most highly regarded modules are organized, how they describe things, how much detail they go into, and so on?

>>47318311
You're completely right - I just fucked up since my PDF of the RC doesn't have a hyphen showing that you don't get anything at level one.

Terrible table design, really.

>>47318399
Check out Tenfootpole's reviews and DCC Classics line from #67 Sailors on the Starless Sea and onward.
Tenfootpole tends to talk about good organization a LOT and has a lot of good reviews where he slams shit products as well. (there's a part on his page for products he think is great or way above average as well)

>>47317486

See now you're starting to see why people moved away from OSR style gaming. At least they lived.

I've had so many instances where people died so fast and just sat around with their thumbs up their asses and complained the night away.

>>47317486
>how do I keep those 2 players engaged in the game or having fun (and not getting butthurt) without nerfing everything.
Add retainers. Or if they're four or fewer players, just have them each play two PCs. They need to learn to think of characters less as avatars and more as playing pieces anyway.

Or, the other players could just decide that having two of their guys knocked out and presumably have to lug them around is a bad way to adventure, break the expedition there, return to town and rest for a week. Then you take ten minutes to restock the dungeon, and BANG! you're off.

There is absolutely no reason why every expedition should be successful, and although there are very good reasons to maintain a one session = one expedition principle, you'll just shoot yourself in the foot if you're a Nazi about it.

>>47320189
>Add retainers

This. Retainers are an important part of old-school D&D gameplay, and they're super useful in a lot of different ways. One of which is that when a PC dies you can take one of those retainers hanging out in the back and promote him to a PC.

Is Maze of the Blue Medusa in the trove yet? Can't seem to find it...

Does anyone happen to have Gone Fishin' or know where I could find it online? Seems like the website that hosted it has disappeared or something.

>>47320759
It's on dropbox mentioned further down in the Dragonsfoot thread where it was posted:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/93o0a6edf2pq70o/fishin.pdf?dl=0

>>47320759
If no one posts it before I get off work, I have a copy at home for ya.

>>47320759

It was posted a thread or two back. Search the archive.

>>47321017
Ah shit, I missed that. Thanks for the help.

>>47202971

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>>47320759
Open your mouth and I'll send in the aeroplane, kiddo. Got some fresh fish soup with your name on it.

Anybody have a good video or PDF or something that runs through several rounds of old school D&D combat? Everything else seems easier but I'm having difficulty visualizing exactly how combat works.

>>47321396
Which edition?

>>47321425
Whatever version Swords & Wizardry clones. I ran it for a couple people last night and I'm not entirely certain I did combat correctly. It went smoothly enough and there were only two brief combats, but I'd rather know what the actual "official" way to do things is, in case I did it wrong and the "right" way is actually better.

My biggest issue is the flow of actions through the turn. How to attack and resolve damage is easy enough.

NEW THREAD >>47321633
NEW THREAD >>47321633
NEW THREAD >>47321633

>>47321526
Are you playing Whitebox, Core Rules or Complete?
Core Rules and Complete are both fairly well-explained in the Combat Section of Swords & Wizardry Complete.

>>47321728
Complete. Guess I just need to reread the section.

>>47321755
First Check for Surprise. (only done at the start of Combat)
1. Spellcasters declare if they're going to cast a Spell. (any at all)
2. Each SIDE rolls intiative.
3. Side which won initiative moves or attacks using missile weapons.
3.1 Side that lost initative moves or attacks using missile weapons.
4. Side that won initative either attacks using melee or states which spell they're casting (if they declared one)
4.1 Side that lost initative either attacks using melee or uses a spell if they've declared a casting.
5. Round complete go to Step 1 for next round.